Overlord - again
SpursKevin
Someone asked a while back about how the answer "overlord" (WW2 codeword for
Normandy landings) could be solved from a clue that appeared in the Daily
Telegraph's crossword from the previous day.
Well, just in case anyone's interested, I've just received snail mail from the
editor of the Electronic Telegraph. It contained a photocopy of the page from
the Daily Telegraph (2nd June 1944) which had the crossword on it.
Anyway, after working out what I was looking at (the page is fairly blurry),
I've sort of reconstructed it, and uploaded it onto one of my webspaces......
http://home.talkcity.com/migrationpath/spurskevin/overlord.html
Rules:
It's a "Prize Crossword" and the solution has to be in by next Thursday.
Envelopes must bear a 2範 stamp.
The prize is "books to the value of 30 shillings" (1.5 UK pounds).
Kevin
Hugo van der Sanden
>
> Someone asked a while back about how the answer "overlord" (WW2 codeword for
> Normandy landings) could be solved from a clue that appeared in the Daily
> Telegraph's crossword from the previous day.
> (the page is fairly blurry)
From my best attempts at a solution, 20A should be 'die a VC', 22A is
correct; 19D and 25D I'm not sure what the correct clue should be (but
see below).
I was also very uncertain of my answers for 2D, 22D and 29A.
SPOILER
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19D is an anagram of 'of secret', so "c???? position" should imply the
preceding anagram; I can't think of a word that fits well, though.
25D I suspect has a cryptic explanation EGG in BED, but I'm not sure if
that is an argument for or against 'meat'.
2D I thought might be Luther, until I realised I was misremembering a
post for a church door, and possibly Luther for Calvin. I can think of
at least three other vaguely possible but unsatisfying words.
22D and 29A I have no idea: parrot/training fits but is similarly
unsatisfying.
Hugo
SpursKevin
>25D I suspect has a cryptic explanation EGG in BED, but I'm not sure if
>that is an argument for or against 'meat'.
Aha.... it could be "meal".
I've just uploaded the newest version, only 19D to clarify.
Thanks
Kevin
SpursKevin
>I was also very uncertain of my answers for 2D, 22D and 29A.
22D should read "sailor" and not "seller"
Kevin
Hugo van der Sanden
> I've just uploaded the newest version, only 19D to clarify.
If you can describe as much as you can see of the unclear letters, I
might be able to home in on the missing word.
Going back to the original question, I believe the 'it' of 11A does
refer to the 'common' answering 10A. This still doesn't give a
particularly transparent relationship 'twixt clue and answer, but I'd
put that down mainly to the years - both the common knowledge around
which clues are based, and the very concept of what qualifies as a good
and reasonable clue have changed substantially across this time span.
I'd also put it down somewhat to the Telegraph itself, which (at least
on the occasions I've dipped into it over the last 20 years) has a
substantially lower quality of careful cluing, and of correctness, than
the Times (with which I am much more familiar). That might just be my
snobbery, though.
Hugo
Mark Brader
> Going back to the original question, I believe the 'it' of 11A does
> refer to the 'common' answering 10A. This still doesn't give a
> particularly transparent relationship 'twixt clue and answer, but I'd
> put that down mainly to the years - both the common knowledge around
> which clues are based, and the very concept of what qualifies as a good
> and reasonable clue have changed substantially across this time span.
I agree with that interpretation.
Here's my almost-complete solution to the puzzle, with explanations.
I confess to using some computer assistance on two or three clues.
Just to save time. Yeah, that's it. Just to save time.
30
29
28
27
26
25
24
23
22
21
20
19
18
17
16
15
14
13
12
11
10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
W E L L D O N E # S T A F F S
I # O # A # _ # # # O # A # I
N _ D _ N _ _ _ # C O M M O N
N # G # G # _ # # # S # I # G
O V E R L O R D # C H I L L S
W # R # E # _ # _ # O # I # O
# # # # # N # R # O R D A I N
H # E # S E R V A N T # R # G
A D V I C E # I # E # # # # #
N # E # O # A S P # O # S # B
D E N O T E # H A L F T I M E
I # K # F # # # R # F # M # G
C H E R R Y # T R A I N I N G
A # E # E # # # O # C # L # E
P A L L E T # O T H E R E N D
| Across
| 1 No half-baked praise (4,4)
WELL DONE - two meanings
| 5 The county of firm personnel (6)
STAFFS - abbrev. Staffordshire, play on STAFF meaning personnel
| 9 Incog. (3,5)
(Don't know. Some contemporary reference?)
| 10 Not apparently very high-class land - (6)
COMMON - two meanings
| 11 - but some bigwig like this has stolen some of it at times (8)
OVERLORD - presumably a reference to overlords seizing common land
| 13 They may send one's temperature up, oddly enough (6)
CHILLS - reference to its oxymoronic quality
| 14 It serves its turn in the opening episode (3)
(Don't know.)
| 16 Scattered inroad to order (6)
ORDAIN - anagram
| 19 He has his duty to master (7)
SERVANT - (mildly) cryptic definition
| 20 "Die a V.C." (anag.) (approving word to a soldier?) (6)
ADVICE - anagram. (Why "approving", though?)
| (21) It needs Erse to slander (3)
ASP - ASPERSE minus ERSE
| 26 Need to come to signify (6)
DENOTE - anagram
| 27 When to change to the 31 across? (8)
HALFTIME - 31 is OTHER END; reference to games such as soccer
| 28 To show grief about a lady is not fruitless (6)
CHERRY - CRY around HER
| 29 What separates the novice from the adept (8)
TRAINING - slightly cryptic definition - they intended us to think of
religious meanings first
| 30 No enemy allowed a bed (6)
PALLET - PAL plus LET
| 31 Remote terminus don't mix around here (5,3)
OTHER END - anagram DON'T and HERE
| Down
| 1 Cut out the chaff and do not delay victory (6)
WINNOW - WIN NOW
| 2 The one that was left at the post? (6)
LODGER - reference to inns
| 3 Hang up more than a corner (6)
DANGLE - contains ANGLE
| 4 They are probably prepared for floods in this English town (6)
(Don't know. Is there an English town called NILERT, NILERS, something
like that, making this a reference to the Nile?)
| 6 Not prolonged enough to make the torso hot (3,5)
TOO SHORT - anagram
| 7 Not a strange spirit, apparently (8)
FAMILIAR - two meanings
| 8 Entertainment that tells one what to do at it (8)
SINGSONG - self-explanatory
| 12 This Eastern is often in a whirl (7)
DERVISH - reference to "whirling Dervish"
| 15 Is familiar with the cells from birth (3)
Must be NEE, as in "from birth", but I don't understand the other part.
| 16 Reversed in 26 across (3)
ONE - found in dENOte
| 17 Sounds a useful thing to wear, but no help (8)
HANDICAP - sounds like "handy cap"
| 18 There's no list for the ships on this (4,4)
EVEN KEEL - cryptic definition playing on "list"
| 19 Of secret c???? position, and not taxed (4,4)
SCOT FREE - anagram - the missing word might be "change" or "coded"
| 22 What a girl might expect if a sailor gives her the bird (6)
PARROT - reference to stereoptypical pirates
| 23 Cool place to work in (6)
OFFICE - OFF ICE
| 24 Figure of speech is turned on quite a way (6)
SIMILE - IS reversed plus MILE
| 25 Asked for convalescent patient's meal (6)
BEGGED - "EGG in BED"
--
Mark Brader | "Howeb45 9 qad no5 und8ly diturvrd v7 7jis dince
Toronto | 9 qas 8mtillihemt mot ikkfavpur4d 5esoyrdeful
m...@vex.net | abd fill if condif3nce on myd3lf." -- Cica
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Jim Gillogly
> Here's my almost-complete solution to the puzzle, with explanations.
> I confess to using some computer assistance on two or three clues.
> Just to save time. Yeah, that's it. Just to save time.
Here are a couple of suggested mods.
2D: My wife suggests LETTER (the "post"?) rather than your LODGER.
9A: I thought perhaps "NOT KNOWN", although the "Incog." would
suggest (to me) an abbreviation.
4D: If this 9A is correct, then NEWARK would fit (useful in a
flood. There's a Newark in the Midlands.
14A: KEY: you "turn" it to "open" something.
Besides OVERLORD, which of these are D-DAY codewords?
--
Jim Gillogly
30 Astron S.R. 2000, 13:32
12.19.7.2.10, 2 Oc 13 Pop, Fifth Lord of Night
Matthew T. Russotto
[solution elided]
Wow. I'm definitely impressed. I had about three or four of them,
plus one I was sure of that was wrong ("PRACTICE" rather than
"TRAINING". Also I had guessed "PRIVATE" rather than "SERVANT", but
wasn't sure)
}| 9 Incog. (3,5)
}
}(Don't know. Some contemporary reference?)
Could be "NOT KNOWN", though that hardly seems cryptic enough. I
expect an abbreviated answer from an abbreviated clue, but I don't
know if that's the convention for these puzzles.
}| 14 It serves its turn in the opening episode (3)
}
}(Don't know.)
I'd suggest "SET". "Serves its turn" from tennis. "Opening episode"
referring to a play, where a set would be used.
}| 2 The one that was left at the post? (6)
}
}LODGER - reference to inns
Or perhaps "LETTER".
}| 4 They are probably prepared for floods in this English town (6)
}
}(Don't know. Is there an English town called NILERT, NILERS, something
}like that, making this a reference to the Nile?)
or NEWORS? (sounds like "new oars"?)
}| 15 Is familiar with the cells from birth (3)
}
}Must be NEE, as in "from birth", but I don't understand the other part.
--
Matthew T. Russotto russ...@pond.com
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit
of justice is no virtue."
SpursKevin
>If you can describe as much as you can see of the unclear letters, I
>might be able to home in on the missing word.
Yeah.... good idea, I'll have you scratching your head also :-)
I must explain, it really is a very faint photocopy. Not only that, the
crossword is on an inside page (not on the back page like nowadays) and the
curve of the open page has further distorted the text.
Anyway..... It looks as if it has 4 letters, however, looking at other clues
above and below on the same "curve" of the page, it could be 5 letters.
The first letter is a "C" (75% certain)
There looks to be no descenders or ascenders in the letters.
Letters 2 & 3 look to be rounded.
I'll see what results I get when I scan it tomorrow, and decide wether it's
worth uploading.
Kevin
SpursKevin
>Here's my almost-complete solution to the puzzle
I've got my "solution", there's a link to it on....
http://home.talkcity.com/migrationpath/spurskevin/overlord.html
The clue that really had me thinking was 2D. I liked Hugo's answer (LUTHER),
cos not only does it fit, but it makes "NOT KNOWN" for 9A, albeit clumsily,
work also.
Kevin
PS: I'm off to find out if "LUTHER" is a possible fit.
SpursKevin
>I hope I won't be scratching _too_
>much harder.
Stop scratching.... I asked the same question on rec.puzzles.crossword and
someone came up with "composition".
The word has been split into two lines, and I assume there's a hyphen after the
"com" bit, but I can't see it.
It made me have another look at 2D under an eyeglass, and it seems that there
is either a "?" or a "!" after the word "post".
I'll get this thing scanned later today.
Kevin