Rare Entries contest MSB49 begins
Mark Brader
As always, reply ONLY BY EMAIL to m...@vex.net; do not post to any
newsgroup. Entries must reach here by Saturday, March 4, 2006
(by Toronto time, zone -5). See below the questions for a detailed
explanation, which is unchanged from last time except for a technical
correction in the explanation of scoring.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
0. Name a language that is a national language in two or more
countries. "National language" means any national official
language of the country, or if it has none, then the one language
most widely used there. See also rule 4.1.1.
1. Name a word in Latin which (ignoring capitalization) also forms
a brand name (make, model, line, etc.) of cars manufactured in
the 2004 model year or later.
2. Name a TV series, past or present, whose central character is a
fictional person who is head of state or head of government of
a real country.
3. Specify a technological method that has been used on scoreboards
at major sporting events to display the event's current score
in large digits. (No brand names.)
4. Name a means of transportation used by people in any of the Harry
Potter books, that involves magic and does not involve animals.
(No brand names or other proper names.)
5. Give a place name that consists of the English word New followed
(with or without a space) by an older place name. Both places
must exist today and must be at least fairly large.
For purposes of this question, "at least fairly large" means that
by some reasonable measure the place has a length of at least 82
miles (132 km), or an area of at least 2,932 km² (1,132 sq.mi.),
or a population of at least 23,451 (23,451).
6. Give an English word containing the letters F,C,K in that order.
(See rules 4.3.1 and 4.3.2.)
7. Name a character represented in modern (international) Morse
Code by two or more instances of the same element, i.e. all dots
or all dashes.
8. Give the keyword, correctly spelled, at the start of one of the
header lines required on all Usenet postings. Capitalization will
be ignored.
9. Name a country now existing which is known to contain the location
of a specific present or former structure that has been either
the world's tallest structure or its tallest building.
As usual in such records, a "structure" includes anything built
by people and attached permanently to the ground; a "building"
is a structure that has habitable floors most or all of the
way up, and its height does not include any antennas or similar
secondary structures on the roof. See also rule 4.1.1.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
* 1. The Game
As usual, for each of the questions above, your objective is to give
an answer that (1) is correct, and (2) will be duplicated by as FEW
other people as possible. Feel free to use any reference material
you like to RESEARCH your answers; but when you have found enough
possible answers for your liking, you are expected to choose on your
own which one to submit, WITHOUT mechanical or computer assistance:
this is meant to be a game of wits.
* 2. Scoring
The scores on the different questions are MULTIPLIED to produce a
final score for each entrant. Low score wins; a perfect score is 1.
If your answer on a category is correct, then your score is the number
of people who gave that answer, or an answer I consider equivalent.
A wrong answer, or a skipped question, gets a high score as a penalty.
This is the median of:
- the number of entrants
- the square root of that number, rounded up to an integer
- double the highest score that anyone would have on this
question if all answers were deemed correct
* 2.1 Scoring Example
Say I ask for a color on the current Canadian flag. There are
26 entrants -- 20 say "red", 4 say "blue", and 1 each say "gules",
"white", and "white square". After looking up gules I decide it's
the same color as red and should be treated as a duplicate answer;
then the 21 people who said either "red" or "gules" get 21 points
each. The person who said "white" gets a perfect score of 1 point.
"White square" is not a color and blue is not a color on the flag;
the 5 people who gave either of these answers each get the same
penalty score, which is the median of:
- number of entrants = 27
- sqrt(27) = 5.196+, rounded up = 6
- double the highest score = 21 x 2 = 42
or in this case, 27.
* 2.2 More Specific Variants
On some questions it's possible that one entrant will give an answer
that's a more specific variant of an answer given by someone else.
In that case the more specific variant will usually be scored as if
the two answers are different, but the other, less specific variant
will be scored as if they are the same.
In the above example, if I had decided (wrongly) to score gules as a
more specific variant of red, then "red" would still score 21, but
"gules" would now score 1.
However, this rule will NOT apply if the question asks for an answer
"in general terms"; a more specific answer will then at best be treated
the same as the more general one, and may be considered wrong.
* 3. Entries
Entries must be emailed to the address given above. Please do not
quote the questions back to me, and do send only plain text in ASCII
or ISO 8859-1: no HTML, attachments, Micros--t character sets, etc.
(Entrants who fail to comply will be publicly chastised in the results
posting.)
Your message should preferably consist of just your 10 answers,
numbered from 0 to 9, along with any explanations required. Your
name should be in it somewhere -- a From: line or signature is fine.
(If I don't see both a first and a last name, or an explicit request
for a particular form of your name to be used, then your email address
will be posted in the results).
You can expect an acknowledgement when I read your entry. If this
bounces, it won't be sent again.
* 3.1 Where Leeway is Allowed
In general there is no penalty for errors of spelling, capitalization,
English usage, or other such matters of form, nor for accidentally
sending email in an unfinished state, so long as it's clear enough
what you intended. Sometimes a specific question may imply stricter
rules, though. And if you give an answer that properly refers to a
different thing related to the one you intended, I will normally take
it as written.
Once you intentionally submit an answer, no changes will be allowed,
unless I decide there was a problem with the question. Similarly,
alternate answers within an entry will not be accepted. Only the
first answer that you intentionally submit counts.
* 3.2 Clarifications
Questions are not intended to be hard to understand, but I may fail
in this intent. (For one thing, in many cases clarity could only be
provided by an example which would suggest one or another specific
answer, and I mustn't do that.)
In order to be fair to all entrants, I must insist that requests for
clarification must be emailed to me, NOT POSTED in any newsgroup.
But if you do ask for clarification, I'll probably say that the
question is clear enough as posted. If I do decide to clarify or
change a question, all entrants will be informed.
* 3.3 Supporting Information
It is your option whether or not to provide supporting information
to justify your answers. If you don't, I'll email you to ask for
it if I need to. If you supply it in the form of a URL, if at all
possible it should be a "deep link" to the specific relevant page.
There is no need to supply URLs for obvious, well-known reference
web sites, and there is no point in supplying URLs for pages that
don't actually support your answer.
If you provide any explanatory remarks along with your answers, you
are responsible for making it sufficiently clear that they are not
part of the answers. The particular format doesn't matter as long
as you're clear. In the scoring example above, "white square" was
wrong; "white (in the central square)" would have been taken as a
correct answer with an explanation.
* 4. Interpretation of questions
These are general rules that apply unless a question specifically
states otherwise.
* 4.1 Geography
* 4.1.1 Countries
"Country" means an independent country. Whether or not a place is
considered an independent country is determined by how it is listed
in reference sources.
For purposes of these contests, the Earth is considered to be divid-
ed into disjoint areas each of which is either (1) a country, (2) a
dependency, or (3) without national government. Their boundaries
are interpreted on a de facto basis. Any place with representatives
in a country's legislature is considered a part of that country rather
than a dependency of it.
The European Union is considered as an association of countries, not
a country itself.
Claims that are not enforced, or not generally recognized, don't count.
Places currently fighting a war of secession don't count. Embassies
don't count as special; they may have extraterritorial rights, but
they're still part of the host country (and city).
Countries existing at different historical times are normally
considered the same country if they have the same capital city.
* 4.1.2 States or provinces
Many countries or dependencies are divided into subsidiary political
entities, typically with their own subsidiary governments. At the
first level of division, these entities are most commonly called
states or provinces, but various other names are used; sometimes
varying even within the same country (e.g. to indicate unequal
political status).
Any reference to "states or provinces" in a question refers to
these entities at the first level of division, no matter what they
are called.
* 4.1.3 Distances
Distances between places on the Earth are measured along a great
circle path, and distance involving cities are based on the city
center (downtown).
* 4.2 Entertainment
A "movie" does not include any form of TV broadcast or video release;
it must have been shown in cinemas. "Oscar" and "Academy Award" are
AMPAS trademarks and refer to the awards given by that organization.
"Fiction" includes dramatizations of true stories.
* 4.3 Words and Numbers
* 4.3.1 Different Answers
Some questions specifically ask for a *word*, rather than the thing
that it names; this means that different words with the same meaning
will in general be treated as distinct answers. However, if two or
more inflectional variants, spelling variants, or other closely
related forms are correct answers, they will be treated as equivalent.
Similarly, if the question specifically asks for a name, different
things referred to by the same name will be treated as the same.
* 4.3.2 Permitted Words
The word that you give must be listed (or implied by a listing,
as with inflected forms) in a suitable dictionary. Generally
this means a printed dictionary published recently enough
to show reasonably current usage, or its online equivalent.
Other reasonably authoritative sources may be accepted on a
case-by-case basis. Words listed as obsolete or archaic usage
don't count, and sources that would list those words without
distinguishing them are not acceptable as dictionaries.
* 4.3.3 Permitted Numbers
Where the distinction is important, "number" refers to a specific
mathematical value, whereas "numeral" means a way of writing it.
Thus "4", "IV", and "four" are three different numerals representing
the same number. "Digit" means one of the characters "0", "1", "2",
etc. (These definitions represent one of several conflicting common
usages.)
* 4.3.4 "Contained in"
If a question asks for a word or numeral "contained" or "included"
in a phrase, title, or the like, this does not include substrings or
alternate meanings of words, unless explictly specified. For example,
if "Canada in 1967" is the title of a book, it contains the numeral
1967 and the preposition "in"; but it does not contain the word "an",
the adjective "in", or the numeral 96.
* 4.4 Tense and Time
When a question is worded in the present tense, the correctness of
your answer is determined by the facts at the moment you submit it.
(In a case where, in my judgement, people might reasonably be unaware
of the facts having changed, an out-of-date answer may be accepted as
correct.) Questions worded in the present perfect tense include the
present unless something states or implies otherwise. (For example,
Canada is a country that "has existed", as well as one that "exists".)
Different verbs in a sentence bear their usual tense relationship to
each other.
You are not allowed to change the facts yourself in order to make an
answer correct. For example, if a question asks for material on the
WWW, what you cite must already have existed before the contest was
first posted.
* 5. Judging
As moderator, I will be the sole judge of what answers are correct,
and whether two answers with similar meaning (like red and gules)
are considered the same, different, or more/less specific variants.
I will do my best to be fair on all such issues, but sometimes it is
necessary to be arbitrary. Those who disagree with my rulings are
welcome to complain (or to start a competing contest, or whatever).
I may rescore the contest if I agree that I made a serious error and
it affects the high finishers.
* 6. Results
Results will normally be posted within a few days of the contest
closing. They may be delayed if I'm unexpectedly busy or for
technical reasons. If I feel I need help evaluating one or more
answers, I may make a consultative posting in the newsgroups before
scoring the contest.
In the results posting, all entrants will be listed in order of score,
but high (bad) scores may be omitted. The top few entrants' full
answer slates will be posted. A table of answers and their scores
will be given for each question.
* 7. Fun
This contest is for fun. Please do have fun, and good luck to all.
--
Mark Brader "I always hoped that when someone quoted me
Toronto it would be because I said something profound."
m...@vex.net -- Chris Volpe
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Mark Brader
Everything below this point is identical to the original posting.
Mark Brader
Mark Brader
| As usual, for each of the items above, your objective is to give a
| response that (1) is correct, and (2) will be duplicated by as FEW
| other people as possible. Feel free to use any reference material ...
This contest drew a pitiful field of 23 entrants. If my next one
doesn't a produce a significant improvement in turnout, then I may
make it the last in the series.
Your winner once again was JOHN GERSON, who beat out Haran Pilpel
and Robin Rattay for the title. Congratulations, John.
These are their slates of answers (some abbreviated). As always, you
should be reading this in a monospaced font for proper tabular alignment.
JOHN GERSON HARAN PILPEL ROBIN RATTAY
[0] Italian Russian German
[1] Prius Infiniti Audi
[2] Super President Commander in Chief Kanzleramt
[3] Electromechanical (wrong answer) Electromagnetic
[4] 1st-years' boats Magic boats Knight Bus
[5] New Plymouth New South Wales New Berlin
[6] Fleckled Coffeecake Freckles
[7] O 5 H
[8] Newsgroups Message-ID Subject
[9] UK Egypt Germany
| For my convenience please do not quote this message when responding.
| Mail only your answers, and these in plain ASCII or ISO 8859-1 text:
| no HTML, Micros--t character sets, etc. (People who fail to comply
| will be chastised in the results posting.)
Erland Sommarskog, Stephen Perry, and John Kemeny, consider yourselves
chastised.
To review the scoring:
| Low score wins; a perfect score is 1.
|
| If your answer on a category is correct, then your score is the number
| of people who gave that answer or an answer I consider equivalent. If
| wrong, or if you skip the question, you get a high score as a penalty.
| The scores on the different questions are *multiplied* to produce a
| final score. ... It is also possible that I may consider one answer
| to be a more specific variant of another: in that case it will be
| scored as if they are different, but the other, less specific variant
| will be scored as if they are the same.
See the questions posting for the penalty score formula.
Here is the complete table of scores.
RANK SCORE ENTRANT Q0 Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q5 Q6 Q7 Q8 Q9
1. 1296 John Gerson 3 3 2 6 1 2 1 2 3 1
2. 2304 Haran Pilpel 1 1 1 WR 2 3 1 2 6 2
3. 4032 Robin Rattay 1 1 1 6 2 2 2 7 6 2
4. 4608 Lejonel Norling 1 2 2 2 4 2 2 3 2 6
5. 5760 Glen Prideaux 1 2 2 2 1 2 1 5 6 WR
6. 7200 Duncan Booth 1 1 10 1 1 1 2 5 6 WR
7. 8100 Keith Willoughby 1 1 10 5 6 1 1 3 3 3
8. 10080 Josh Button 1 2 10 1 2 3 2 7 3 2
9. 11520 Julie Waters 3 1 10 8 2 2 1 2 6 1
10. 14400 Erland Sommarskog 2 1 WR 5 1 2 1 3 6 2
11. 40320 Dan Tilque 2 1 10 8 6 1 1 7 2 3
12. 41472 Peter Smyth 3 2 2 WR 4 1 2 3 3 3
13. 50400 Garmt de Vries 2 2 10 5 1 3 1 7 2 6
14. 75600 John Kemeny 5 1 10 6 1 2 1 7 3 6
15. 103680 Eric Porter 5 3 1 8 2 WR 1 2 6 6
16. 108000 Kevin Stone 5 1 WR 5 6 2 1 3 3 2
17. 124416 Dave Zahn 1 2 3 8 6 2 1 3 6 WR
Joshua Kreitzer 3 1 3 5 3 1 2 7 WR 6
Stephen Perry 3 WR 10 8 1 1 1 5 2 WR
Bruce Bowler 3 3 1 8 6 2 1 5 6 WR
Roy Thearle 2 2 10 1 4 WR 1 WR 6 6
Nick Selwyn 5 WR 3 8 3 2 2 5 6 2
Lieven Marchand 5 2 10 8 4 2 2 7 6 1
Scores of 125,000 or worse are not shown.
And here is the complete list of answers given. Each list shows correct
answers in the order worst to best (most to least popular). The
notation ">>>" means that "more specific variant" scoring was used.
| 0. Name a language that is a national language in two or more
| countries. "National language" means any national official
| language of the country, or if it has none, then the one language
| most widely used there. See also rule 4.1.1.
5 Dutch (Netherlands, Belgium)
3 Italian (Italy, Switzerland)
3 Portuguese (Portugal, Brazil)
2 Greek (Greece, Cyprus)
2 Swedish (Sweden, Finland)
1 English (UK, US)
1 Fulani (Guinea, Niger)
1 German (Germany, Austria)
1 Kiswahili (Kenya, Tanzania)
1 Korean (North & South Korea)
1 Quechua (Bolivia, Peru)
1 Russian (Russia, Kazakhstan)
1 Turkish (Turkey, Cyprus)
In the list I have just shown two countries for each language even if
it is spoken in others.
I think the most obvious answers here are the languages of the major
colonial powers -- English, Spanish, and French. Only one entrant
picked any one of the three, everyone choosing instead to collide
on Dutch.
I'm not sure if Fulani is really a correct answer. First, there seems
to be some disagreement as to whether it's one language or a family of
languages (it has several other names, notably Fulfulde and Pulaar).
And second, as far as I can tell there's only one country where it's
the largest language, namely Guinea. Wikipedia says it's an official
language in 9 countries, but that's Wikipedia; the CIA World Factbook
doesn't say it's an official language in any of those places, but they
might not always mention official status. For some countries the pages
at <http://www.ethnologue.com> list "national or official languages",
whatever that means, and these do include forms of Fulani in several
cases, so I decided to accept it.
| 1. Name a word in Latin which (ignoring capitalization) also forms
| a brand name (make, model, line, etc.) of cars manufactured in
| the 2004 model year or later.
3 Prius (formerly/sooner; Toyota)
2 Astra (stars; Opel)
2 Corolla (little crown; Toyota)
2 Fiat (let it be done/made)
2 Modus (measure/limit; Renault)
1 Audi (listen [imperative]; Audi)
1 Infiniti (infinite [plural]; Nissan)
1 Integra (whole/pure [feminine]; Acura)
1 Matrix (mother animal; Toyota)
1 Montana (mountainous [feminine]; Pontiac)
1 Optima (best; Kia)
1 Pacifica (peacemaking [feminine]; Chrysler)
1 Taurus (bull; Ford)
1 Transit (it crosses; Ford)
1 Volvo (I roll; Volvo)
WRONG:
1 Phaeton (Volkswagen) (not Latin)
1 Punto (Fiat) (not Latin)
Answers here were pretty well divided. Phaeton is a Greek name.
Punto is a word in Italian, but in Latin it has a C in it.
<http://lysy2.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/words.exe> was cited by
the entrant who gave that answer, but unfortunately this online
dictionary is programmed with prefixes and suffixes as well as
word stems, and doesn't know which ones go together. In effect
its listing for "punto" tells you what it *would* mean *if* it
was a Latin word. An online English dictionary on the same
principles would be able to generate an entry for something
like "antipotatoful" if anyone asked it for one.
| 2. Name a TV series, past or present, whose central character is a
| fictional person who is head of state or head of government of
| a real country.
10 Yes, Prime Minister (1986-87, UK)
3 Hail to the Chief (1985, US)
2 Super President (1967, US)
2 The Final Cut (1995, UK)
1 Commander in Chief (2005-, US)
1 Kanzleramt (2005, Germany)
1 Mr. President (1987-88, US)
1 Whoops Apocalypse (1982, UK production, US setting)
WRONG:
1 About a woman who is the US President. Geena Davis may play
the starring role... (asked for series to be named,
not described)
1 The Virgin Queen (2005, UK production, England setting) (real
monarch)
Since I wasn't specific in the question, I accepted miniseries like
The Final Cut as being series.
I had three shows in mind -- all of which I have enjoyed -- when
I asked the question: the long-running "The West Wing", which wasn't
named at all; the current "Commander in Chief", which was named once
and described once; and "Yes, Prime Minister", on which almost half
the field collided.
Other entrants were pretty well divided. I was surprised that only
one show from a non-English-speaking country was named.
| 3. Specify a technological method that has been used on scoreboards
| at major sporting events to display the event's current score
| in large digits. (No brand names.)
8 Numeral cards [= Manually placed number placards; Painted wood;
Cards hung from hooks; Flippable paper cards]
6 Electromechanical [= Reflective electromagnetic display;
Electromagnetic elements]
>>> 2 Seven-segment electromechanical
>>> 1 Electromechanical flip-dot display
5 LEDs [= Seven-segment LED display]
1 Circular drums with painted digits
1 Vacuum fluorescent displays
WRONG:
1 Dot matrix display (not a technology)
1 Seven-segment display (not a technology)
I had to make a number of judgment calls in scoring this one. First,
I decided that whether a digit was displayed in terms of strokes or dots
or solidly was not a matter of technology, but of typographic design.
It's true that some technologies force a choice of design, but the reverse
is not true. For example, it is possible to make a dot-matrix numeral
out of LEDs or incandescent light bulbs or electromagnetic flip-dots.
And for that matter, a seven-segment display can use a dot matrix to make
up each of the strokes. So answers that said things like "seven-segment"
had that part ignored, and if that was all, I counted them as wrong.
Next, I considered all forms of display that involved manually placing
digit cards or boards were equivalent. It's true that paper is not the
same technology as painted wood, but I felt that they were close enough
for this question. Incidentally, I expected this sort of thing to be
the most common answer, and I was right.
Finally, I considered that "electromechanical" and "electromagnetic"
were equivalent terms unless the technology was described in such detail
as to make a distinction clear.
In some cases I was unable to verify that a technological method was
in fact used for "major sporting events". When the entrants could not
This proved too hard to research and I basically had to give up on it.
in some cases, and I just gave the entrants the benefit of the doubt.
My apologies to those who went to some trouble to justify their answers.
One obvious correct answer that was not used was incandescent light
bulbs (in a dot matrix, or in channels to form seven segments).
| 4. Name a means of transportation used by people in any of the Harry
| Potter books, that involves magic and does not involve animals.
| (No brand names or other proper names.)
6 Broomstick
>>> 1 Toy broomstick
4 Floo powder [= Floo network]
3 Portkey
>>> 1 Kettle turned into portkey
2 Flying car
2 Knight Bus
2 Magic-propelled boats
>>> 1 Boats the first-years go in
1 Assisted Apparition
1 Cart at Gringotts
1 Levitation
1 Vanishing cabinet
The only correct answer I can think of that wasn't mentioned is
the Hogwarts Express (which may not be propelled by magic, but uses
it to access Platform 9¾), but I've only read the books once each.
| 5. Give a place name that consists of the English word New followed
| (with or without a space) by an older place name. Both places
| must exist today and must be at least fairly large.
|
| For purposes of this question, "at least fairly large" means that
| by some reasonable measure the place has a length of at least 82
| miles (132 km), or an area of at least 2,932 km² (1,132 sq.mi.),
| or a population of at least 23,451 (23,451).
3 New South Wales (region, Wales, UK; state, Australia)
2 New Bedford (town, England, UK; city, MA, US)
2 New Berlin (city, Germany; city, WI, US)
2 New Ireland (country; province, Papua New Guinea)
2 New Plymouth (city, England, UK; city, New Zealand)
2 New York (city, England, UK; city, NY, US)
2 New Zealand (island, Denmark; country)
1 New Brunswick (city, Germany; province, Canada)
1 New Guinea (country; island, Indonesia / Papua New Guinea)
1 New Hampshire (county, England, UK; state, US)
1 New Hebrides (islands, Scotland, UK; islands, Vanuatu (see
below))
1 New Jersey (island, UK possession; state, US)
1 New London (city, England, UK; city, CT, US)
WRONG:
1 New Rochelle (no older place Rochelle)
1 Newham (no sufficiently large older place Ham)
Answers were well divided; you only needed to be right to score well.
I did not require the "New" place to be named after the other one, only
newer, but I think all the correct answers actually were named after the
other place. There was a near miss with Newham; apparently there is an
unrelated and presumably older place in Jordan called Ham, but the web
page cited by the entrant gave the population "for 7 km radius from this
point" and not necessarily for the town itself. I could not find any
other population for Ham, and I found no other place named Ham that would
make Newham a correct answer. (Newham itself is named after a *former*
town of Ham that was divided centuries ago into East and West Ham.)
New Rochelle is named after a city called La Rochelle, not just Rochelle,
and again, I found no other place called Rochelle that would make it a
correct answer.
| 6. Give an English word containing the letters F,C,K in that order.
| (See rules 4.3.1 and 4.3.2.)
2 Finicky [= Finickier]
2 Firebrick
2 Freckles
2 Frock
1 Aftershock
1 Coffeecake
1 Fancywork
1 Fatback
1 Fiddlesticks
1 Flack
1 Fleck
1 Fleckled
1 Flickeringly
1 Forelock
1 Fruitcakes
1 Halfcocked
1 Safecracker
1 Tharf-cake (see below)
1 Trafficked
Again, answers were well divided, with the obvious answer being completely
avoided. I have shown an answer of "tharf-cake" above; that was the only
spelling in the only dictionary I found the word in. The entrant actually
submitted "tharfcake" without a hyphen, and did not respond to either of
two queries as to what spelling had been intended and what dictionary it
was found in. I finally decided to give the benefit of the doubt and
accept this answer.
| 7. Name a character represented in modern (international) Morse
| Code by two or more instances of the same element, i.e. all dots
| or all dashes.
7 H (....)
5 0 (-----)
3 M (--)
3 S (...)
2 5 (.....)
2 O (---)
WRONG:
1 S-cedilla (----) (not in official International Morse)
A nice collision on H and 0 there. The one correct answer that was not
given was I (..).
You can find plenty of sources to confirm that when people send the
character S-cedilla (used in such languages as Romanian and Turkish)
in Morse code, they represent it by ----; but the official standard
is International Telecommunications Union (ITU) Recommendation M.1677.
I found an online copy of this (probably an illegal one, so I won't
say where), and it simply does not include this character.
| 8. Give the keyword, correctly spelled, at the start of one of the
| header lines required on all Usenet postings. Capitalization will
| be ignored.
6 Message-ID
6 Subject
3 Date
3 Newsgroups
2 From
2 Path
WRONG:
1 Lines (optional line)
All 6 correct answers were given, with Message-ID and Subject much more
popular than the others.
| 9. Name a country now existing which is known to contain the location
| of a specific present or former structure that has been either
| the world's tallest structure or its tallest building.
|
| As usual in such records, a "structure" includes anything built
| by people and attached permanently to the ground; a "building"
| is a structure that has habitable floors most or all of the
| way up, and its height does not include any antennas or similar
| secondary structures on the roof. See also rule 4.1.1.
6 Estonia (St. Olav's Church)
3 France (Eiffel Tower)
2 Egypt (Great Pyramid)
2 Germany (Cologne Cathedral)
2 Malaysia (Petronas Towers)
1 Sri Lanka (Jetavanaramaya)
1 UK (Lincoln Cathedral)
1 US (Sears Tower)
WRONG:
4 England (Lincoln Cathedral) (country now existing, as defined,
is the UK)
1 Canada (no such building or structure)
A nice collision on Estonia there. That and Sri Lanka were the only
answers given based on buildings that I had not previously heard of.
I wasn't surprised when, even though I explicitly referred to rule 4.1.1,
some entrants cited England instead of the UK. I was surprised, though,
when the first *four* entrants to attempt this answer all made the same
mistake. Finally there came one who got it right and was rewarded with
a 1 for doing so.
The current record-holding countries are Taiwan for buildings and
the US for structures; and of course for much of the 20th century
the US also held the buildings record. Taiwan was completely avoided
and the US named only once. The tallest structure ever built was the
Warsaw, Poland, radio mast, which collapsed in 1991; nobody named Poland
either.
Toronto's CN Tower is not a building as defined, and was never the world's
tallest structure (only the tallest *freestanding* structure).
--
Mark Brader | "[Your orders are] to figure out what I would have ordered
m...@vex.net | you to do, if I really understood the situation ... [and]
Toronto | to follow those orders I hypothetically would have given."
-- Shan (John Barnes, "Earth Made of Glass")
Kevin Stone
> This contest drew a pitiful field of 23 entrants. If my next one
> doesn't a produce a significant improvement in turnout, then I may
> make it the last in the series.
If you want 2,000 entrants, just ask!
:)
--
Kev
Richard Heathfield
> This contest drew a pitiful field of 23 entrants. If my next one
> doesn't a produce a significant improvement in turnout, then I may
> make it the last in the series.
I stopped entering a long time ago, after submitting a wrong answer. I
didn't mind getting a lousy score (and I invariably did!), but the
questions were getting more and more obscure, and Getting It Wrong is
anathema to me. I suppose the increasing obscurity is inevitable, but it
was a real turn-off. If only...
--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)
Julie Waters
>9. 11520 Julie Waters 3 1 10 8 2 2 1 2 6 1
Well, not only did I make the top ten, but I didn't get anything wrong.
That, in itself, is reason to celebrate.
The funny thing is that I thought I was being clever with my answer to
questions 3 & 4 (I honestly thought "Yes, Prime Minister" was obscure,
since I haven't seen it in about 20 years), and it was the most popular
guess, and the guess I thought was really lame (Taurus for the
latin-word car name) was unique. I was sure that Taurus would be the
top answer.
--julie
Kevin Stone
> I stopped entering a long time ago, after submitting a wrong answer.
Welcome to my world!
But I won't let him beat me!
:)
--
Kev
Robin Rattay
Mark Brader wrote:
> 3. 4032 Robin Rattay 1 1 1 6 2 2 2 7 6 2
Wow, never would have expected that,
> | 2. Name a TV series, past or present, whose central character is a
> | fictional person who is head of state or head of government of
> | a real country.
>
> 10 Yes, Prime Minister (1986-87, UK)
I actually expected to this one to be popular, but wouldn't have
expected it to be *that* popular.
> Other entrants were pretty well divided. I was surprised that only
> one show from a non-English-speaking country was named.
I attempted to find some obscure show from some some country, but unless
you have remotely have heard of one before, it's basically impossible to
research this question.
So in the end in an attempt to be entirely unoriginal I decided to do a
Germany-themed entry and took Kanzleramt.
> | 3. Specify a technological method that has been used on scoreboards
> | at major sporting events to display the event's current score
> | in large digits. (No brand names.)
These are actually the kind of question I like most. There is no
existing list from which you just randomly a answer, but there are
keywords that you can use to search for possible answers.
> | 5. Give a place name that consists of the English word New followed
> | (with or without a space) by an older place name. Both places
> | must exist today and must be at least fairly large.
> |
> | For purposes of this question, "at least fairly large" means that
> | by some reasonable measure the place has a length of at least 82
> | miles (132 km), or an area of at least 2,932 km² (1,132 sq.mi.),
> | or a population of at least 23,451 (23,451).
>
> 2 New Zealand (island, Denmark; country)
IMHO it's interesting that while Zealand is a Danish island, New Zealand
is actually named after the Dutch province of Zeeland.
> | 6. Give an English word containing the letters F,C,K in that order.
> | (See rules 4.3.1 and 4.3.2.)
I guess I could have taken the obvious answer after all ;-)
> | 7. Name a character represented in modern (international) Morse
> | Code by two or more instances of the same element, i.e. all dots
> | or all dashes.
Dumb question: Would "CH" have counted, or isn't it "a character"?
Robin
Robin Rattay
> but the questions were getting more and more obscure,
Actually that is one of the things I like about the game, or be be exact
the nice mixture of questions, from "look at a existing list of answers
and pick one" to "OMG have do you research *that*".
Also I never had problems with wrong answers. To virtually all questions
I an think of a correct answer off the top of my head, which I use, if I
can't find anything better. Of course you have to read the question and
the rules carefully (especially any "county" question can be tricky), wo
avoid mistakes. And considering possible answers ("should I take the
risk and hope Mark will accept an obscure answer, or should I take the
safe road") is half the fun ;-)
Robin
Garmt de Vries
> This contest drew a pitiful field of 23 entrants. If my next one
> doesn't a produce a significant improvement in turnout, then I may
> make it the last in the series.
That would be a pity. I haven't had much time to participate recently, and
when I did, it was in a bit of a hurry, but I hope the MSB series will
continue!
> | 5. Give a place name that consists of the English word New followed
> | (with or without a space) by an older place name. Both places
> | must exist today and must be at least fairly large.
>
> 2 New Zealand (island, Denmark; country)
>I did not require the "New" place to be named after the other one, only
> newer, but I think all the correct answers actually were named after the
> other place.
New Zealand was named after the Dutch province of Zeeland, not the Danish
Sjælland.
--
Garmt de Vries
Duncan Booth
> Mark Brader wrote:
> >9. 11520 Julie Waters 3 1 10 8 2 2 1 2 6 1
>
> Well, not only did I make the top ten, but I didn't get anything wrong.
>
> That, in itself, is reason to celebrate.
I'm celebrating a 6th place, although I'm also kicking myself for a stupid
schoolboy error on the last question.
> The funny thing is that I thought I was being clever with my answer to
> questions 3 & 4 (I honestly thought "Yes, Prime Minister" was obscure,
> since I haven't seen it in about 20 years), and it was the most popular
> guess, and the guess I thought was really lame (Taurus for the
> latin-word car name) was unique. I was sure that Taurus would be the
> top answer.
"Yes, Prime Minister" and "West Wing" were the only two answers I could
think of for this one. Naturally I guessed completely wrong on which of
those two would be most popular.
Mark Brader wrote:
> 1 Matrix (mother animal; Toyota)
Not that it matters, but I actually meant Hyundai rather than Toyota.
> 1 New Hebrides (islands, Scotland, UK; islands, Vanuatu (see
below))
Is there supposed to be a comment about this answer, because I can't see
it?
Erland Sommarskog
> I stopped entering a long time ago, after submitting a wrong answer. I
> didn't mind getting a lousy score (and I invariably did!), but the
> questions were getting more and more obscure,
I find it amazing that after 49 quizzes Mark is still able to find
questions that I find interesting. Of course, most of his quizzes also
have one or two questions that I find utterly uninteresting, and for
which I don't care to spend to much energy. TV-series or Harry Potter
yuk! Compared to any other rare entries quizzes I've seen, Mark's are
far ahead of the pack. Wasn't there one where I supposed to name a
race horse in a faraway country? (Needless to say, I did not enter
that one.)
--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esq...@sommarskog.se
Mark Brader
>>> 1 New Hebrides (islands, Scotland, UK; islands, Vanuatu (see
>>> below))
> Is there supposed to be a comment about this answer, because I can't
> see it?
Oh, sorry. I was going to say that this is one of those cases where
a country (a political entity) and an island group (a physical entity)
are coextensive. When the country was a colony, the name New Hebrides
clearly applied to both. Upon independence the country took the
native-language name Vanuatu; but I couldn't find a source that
clearly indicated whether the name in English of the island group
was supposed to have changed with it.
If we are supposed to use Vanuatu to refer to the island group, then
this is a wrong answer, because the question required the place name
to be in current use. As I could not settle the question, I gave the
entrant the benefit of the doubt.
--
Mark Brader | "'Settlor', (i) in relation to a testamentary trust,
Toronto | means the individual referred to in paragraph (i)."
m...@vex.net | -- Income Tax Act of Canada (1972-94), 108(1)(h)
Mark Brader
> > I did not require the "New" place to be named after the other one, only
> > newer, but I think all the correct answers actually were named after the
> > other place.
> New Zealand was named after the Dutch province of Zeeland, not the Danish
> Sjælland.
Which Robin Rattay also mentioned. So it was. Ironically, during the
contest period I was asked this exact question ("Where is the Zealand
that New Zealand is named after?") in a local trivia league that I play
in. If I hadn't just scored this question and been reminded that
Sjælland is Zealand in English, I probably would have gotten it right.
Sjælland, by the way, is the island where Copenhagen (København) is.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto / "A computer makes it possible to do, in half an hour,
m...@vex.net / tasks which were completely unnecessary to do before."
Marc Dashevsky
> | 2. Name a TV series, past or present, whose central character is a
> | fictional person who is head of state or head of government of
> | a real country.
>
> 10 Yes, Prime Minister (1986-87, UK)
> 3 Hail to the Chief (1985, US)
> 2 Super President (1967, US)
> 2 The Final Cut (1995, UK)
> 1 Commander in Chief (2005-, US)
> 1 Kanzleramt (2005, Germany)
> 1 Mr. President (1987-88, US)
> 1 Whoops Apocalypse (1982, UK production, US setting)
> WRONG:
> 1 About a woman who is the US President. Geena Davis may play
> the starring role... (asked for series to be named,
> not described)
> 1 The Virgin Queen (2005, UK production, England setting) (real
> monarch)
>
> Since I wasn't specific in the question, I accepted miniseries like
> The Final Cut as being series.
>
> I had three shows in mind -- all of which I have enjoyed -- when
> I asked the question: the long-running "The West Wing", which wasn't
> named at all
If I had been running the quiz, I would not have accepted "The West Wing"
as correct because President Bartlett is far from the central character.
The show has an ensemble cast and Toby, Josh, C.J., Sam, Donna, and Leo
are at the center of the show as much, or even more, than Bartlett.
--
Go to http://MarcDashevsky.com to send me e-mail.
Josh Button
> race horse in a faraway country? (Needless to say, I did not enter
> that one.)
Only to name a multiple winner of one of the greatest staying races in the
World.
--
Josh Button
To see how the Penrith Gaels Cricket Club is going...
http://penrithgaelscc.4t.com
Dan Tilque
> ... this is one of those cases
> where a country (a political entity) and an island group (a
> physical entity) are coextensive. When the country was a
> colony, the name New Hebrides clearly applied to both. Upon
> independence the country took the native-language name
> Vanuatu; but I couldn't find a source that clearly indicated
> whether the name in English of the island group was supposed
> to have changed with it.
Merriam-Webster seems to think it would be a wrong answer. If you
look up New Hebrides in their 11th Collegiate, it just says "see
Vanuatu". At Vanuatu, it says "formerly Hew Hebrides" and then
gives both the island group and the republic in the definition.
One thing I wondered about this question is what if two people
answered with the same name but refered to different entities. My
answer was New Brunswick and I explicitly indicated it was the
city in New Jersey (despite which you put the Canadian province
in the list of answers). If someone else had given New Brunswick
but said the province, would that have been a different answer?
Or if they'd just said New Brunswick without indicating which
one, would my answer be a more specific case?
--
Dan Tilque
Josh Button
Woo hoo. I think this is my best effort yet!
> | 2. Name a TV series, past or present, whose central character is a
> | fictional person who is head of state or head of government of
> | a real country.
>
> 10 Yes, Prime Minister (1986-87, UK)
I too thought this was an obscure answer. Was tossing up between that and
Commander in Chief :-(
> 6 Electromechanical [= Reflective electromagnetic display;
> Electromagnetic elements]
> >>> 2 Seven-segment electromechanical
> 5 LEDs [= Seven-segment LED display]
> So answers that said things like "seven-segment"
> had that part ignored, and if that was all, I counted them as wrong.
So seven-segment electromechanical is a more specific answer.
But seven-segment LED display is not?
Do I understand the scoring right here? Seems to me seven-segment LED
display would have to be scored the same way as seven-segment
electromechanical.
Mark Brader
> > | 2. Name a TV series, past or present, whose central character is a
> > | fictional person who is head of state or head of government of
> > | a real country.
> > I had three shows in mind ...
Marc Dashevsky:
> If I had been running the quiz, I would not have accepted "The West Wing"
> as correct because President Bartlett is far from the central character.
> The show has an ensemble cast ...
It's possible to have both, and this show is such a case. Or to be more
precise, it was the case from about four episodes into the first season
(which is how long it took the producers to realize that Bartlet should
be the central character) until the last couple of seasons (when the
Santos campaign stories began to form what was practically a separate
show under the same title).
--
Mark Brader | "[He] is my nation's leader ... i.e., the piece of
Toronto | clear tape at the beginning of a cassette that you
m...@vex.net | can't record anything on...." --R.H. Draney
Mark Brader
> > 6 Electromechanical [= Reflective electromagnetic display;
> > Electromagnetic elements]
> > >>> 2 Seven-segment electromechanical
>
> > 5 LEDs [= Seven-segment LED display]
>
> > So answers that said things like "seven-segment"
> > had that part ignored, and if that was all, I counted them as wrong.
> So seven-segment electromechanical is a more specific answer.
> But seven-segment LED display is not?
Sorry, I was trying to get the result posting finished because it was
so late, and did a bad job of explaining that. The difference is that
with a seven-segment electromechanical display, each segment moves as
a unit, which I considered technologically different from other forms
of electromechanical displays such as flip-dot. With LEDs, it makes
no difference whether they are arranged in segments or some other layout.
--
Mark Brader | Yet again, I begged him to explain himself in plain
Toronto | English. This request always surprises him, as he
m...@vex.net | is always under the extraordinary impression that
| he has done so. -- Lynn & Jay, "Yes Minister"
Mark Brader
> > Upon independence the country took the native-language name
> > Vanuatu; but I couldn't find a source that clearly indicated
> > whether the name in English of the island group was supposed
> > to have changed with it.
> Merriam-Webster seems to think it would be a wrong answer. If you
> look up New Hebrides in their 11th Collegiate, it just says "see
> Vanuatu". At Vanuatu, it says "formerly Hew Hebrides" and then
> gives both the island group and the republic in the definition.
My Rand McNally New International Atlas clearly shows the island
group as the New Hebrides and the country as Vanuatu. But it's
from 1991 and it's possible that the usage hadn't settled down then.
> One thing I wondered about this question is what if two people
> answered with the same name but refered to different entities. My
> answer was New Brunswick...
Stop right there. Rule 4.3.1.
--
Mark Brader "After all, it is necessary to get behind
Toronto someone before you can stab them in the back."
m...@vex.net -- Lynn & Jay, "Yes, Prime Minister"
Erland Sommarskog
> My Rand McNally New International Atlas clearly shows the island
> group as the New Hebrides and the country as Vanuatu. But it's
> from 1991 and it's possible that the usage hadn't settled down then.
For what it's worth, my Times Comprehensive Atlas from 2003, does
not have "New Hebrides" for the islands. The index lists it, but only
as "See Vanauatu". There is however still "The New Hebrides trench".
(Although this on its own is not likely to make "New Hebrides" a correct
answer.)
Josh Button
> so late, and did a bad job of explaining that. The difference is that
> with a seven-segment electromechanical display, each segment moves as
> a unit, which I considered technologically different from other forms
> of electromechanical displays such as flip-dot. With LEDs, it makes
> no difference whether they are arranged in segments or some other layout.
Fair enough. I for one hope the quiz continues. Don't let small numbers of
entrants inhibit your obvious ability as a quiz master.
If a tree falls in the woods and there is noone there to hear it, did it
really fall? In this case.. yes. Just cos there's barely 30 people involved,
the rare entries quiz is still worthwhile.
rthe...@hotmail.com
Mark Brader wrote:
> The entrant actually
> submitted "tharfcake" without a hyphen, and did not respond to either of
> two queries as to what spelling had been intended and what dictionary it
> was found in. I finally decided to give the benefit of the doubt and
> accept this answer.
Possibly due to an absolutely abysmal performance otherwise.
Webster's 2nd, and sorry about missing you're emails.
Roy
gerson
> This contest drew a pitiful field of 23 entrants. If my next one
> doesn't a produce ...
humph ...
> ... winner ... JOHN GERSON, who beat out Haran Pilpel
> and Robin Rattay for the title. Congratulations, John.
Thanks.
NOW seriously
a quite long remark
Winning is great, I should know, but I'd rather get beat, than there
be an end to the MSBs. It'd be sad, at the least, if you didn't keep on
setting them, after number 50, which I'm looking forward to.
I suppose it's ok to assume it's possible you mean that "in this
series" could be interpreted to mean you'd might start another series
at some unguessable time in the future.
When others have set them, rare entries contests, you've had the
opportunity to compete, which I think you've relished; those contests
have typically attracted fewer entries than yours, from time to time,
but no doubt at all you were pleased to have won Glen Prideaux's GP3 in
a field of 18, and I've had a big kick out of winning out of a field of
23, but there's scarcely any difference, and anyway, I had three bad
answers, the first three questions! If there'd been more entrants, then
I expect a fair few would've finished in front of me! Commiserations
especially to Haran Pilpel, who's probably kicking himself.
But I look forward to these contests; win, or lose,
no matter the number of entrants.
Doing badly doesn't put me off, and disagreeing with you doesn't put
me off. Though I must say that of the two strong disagreements I've had,
er, thinking retrospectively, in one I was definitely wrong ("wilt"),
and in the other, "kob", I still consider there's an issue (yuk word),
but I'm not sure, no need to go over it, (blah blah blah).
At other times, about various things, in the newsgroup, things that
people ask, or that sort of like come up, you've helped people,
including me; I hope people are grateful for that; you've even taught
me to use a semicolon sometimes;
To any former entrants who've been non-entrants recently, and who've
read down to here, I say to you snottily that competitions are about
winning, (and taking part of course), but basically about winning, so
get in there and win, or take part, or whatever, it's supposed to be
fun, and it is. Don't let it stop. I know I have the best record, so
beat ME then! Go on! Beat ME!
Well, I couldn't say nothin'. I'm just saying what I feel. If I'm in
disgrace, please let me know; in a kindly way of course.
sincerely,
me
Gareth Owen
> I stopped entering a long time ago, after submitting a wrong answer.
I stopped entering after submitting a correct answer and having it
marked wrong, and being ignored after providing documentary evidence
that I was right.
You get more consistent interpretations
of the rules playing Mornington Crescent.
Phil Carmody
BZZZT! Deviation.
Phil
--
What is it: is man only a blunder of God, or God only a blunder of man?
-- Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900), The Twilight of the Gods
Richard Heathfield
> Gareth Owen <use...@gwowen.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
>
>> Richard Heathfield <inv...@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>
>> > I stopped entering a long time ago, after submitting a wrong answer.
>>
>> I stopped entering after submitting a correct answer and having it
>> marked wrong, and being ignored after providing documentary evidence
>> that I was right.
>>
>> You get more consistent interpretations
>> of the rules playing Mornington Crescent.
>
> BZZZT! Deviation.
Yes, I have to agree with you there, Phil. That's one point to you for a
correct challenge, and you have 31 seconds on the subject of "rare
entrails", starting... Now.
DokterZ
"gerson" <ger...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:mpzRf.6496$dy4....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> "Mark Brader" wrote
>
>> This contest drew a pitiful field of 23 entrants. If my next one
>> doesn't a produce ...
>
> humph ...
>
>> ... winner ... JOHN GERSON, who beat out Haran Pilpel
>> and Robin Rattay for the title. Congratulations, John.
>
> Thanks.
>
> NOW seriously
<snipped>
> To any former entrants who've been non-entrants recently, and who've
> read down to here, I say to you snottily that competitions are about
> winning, (and taking part of course), but basically about winning, so
> get in there and win, or take part, or whatever, it's supposed to be
> fun, and it is. Don't let it stop. I know I have the best record, so
> beat ME then! Go on! Beat ME!
>
> Well, I couldn't say nothin'. I'm just saying what I feel. If I'm in
> disgrace, please let me know; in a kindly way of course.
People that run trivia contests have the same issue- how to keep (ideally)
all of the people happy and coming back next time. In Mark's case, there
are people that like the researching of answers they don't know, those that
like analyzing the list of correct answers for the best choice, and those
that like both. It's a fine line trying to keep all of those groups happy.
In addition, I think that some participants like the "creative license"
applied to both questions and answers in the contest, while others are
extremely turned off by the same thing.
Just my two cents.
Z
gerson
> > I stopped entering a long time ago, after submitting a wrong answer.
>
> I stopped entering after submitting a correct answer and having it
> marked wrong, and being ignored after providing documentary evidence
> that I was right
How did that work? I can't believe that it was from any ill will! Please tell.
Mark Brader
> I can't believe that it was from any ill will!
No. See the after-results thread from the previous contest.
--
Mark Brader | "I wish to inform you now that the square peg is now
Toronto | in square whole and can be voguish for that your
m...@vex.net | payment is being processed..." --seen in spam
gerson
> ... . It's a fine line trying to keep all of those groups happy
drivel
Enter his next one
> Just my two cents.
fair enough
> Z
gerson
<something>
Pardon intrusion please
Are you the "Julie Waters" in "Billy Elliot", I've just seen
minutes ago, on the teev, made me cry ?
Alec McKenzie
Don't you mean Julie Walters?
--
Alec McKenzie
usenet@<surname>.me.uk
gerson
> Don't you mean Julie Walters?
Oh, um, thanks, I've posted late at night at least twice too
often now :-(
"Why does it always rain at the end of a long drought ?"
Julie Waters
LDC
wrote:
>gerson wrote:
>> "Julie Waters" wrote
>>
>> <something>
>>
>> Pardon intrusion please
>>
>> Are you the "Julie Waters" in "Billy Elliot", I've just seen
>> minutes ago, on the teev, made me cry ?
>
>That's Julie Walters.
>
>This is me:
>
> http://juliewaters.com/
>
Thanks for the link. Nice tunes!!