New puzzle game - Hitori
Kevin Stone
Here's my latest game:
http://www.brainbashers.com/hitori
Instructions clear? Game play works correctly?
Any comments will be appreciated.
TIA
--
Kev
Richard Heathfield
> Hi,
>
> Here's my latest game:
>
> http://www.brainbashers.com/hitori
>
> Instructions clear?
Yes.
> Game play works correctly?
No. Mouse clicks don't do anything (Konqueror).
--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
Email: -www. +rjh@
Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
jonnie303
Works fine for me.
Interesting game.
--------
jonnie303
Richard Heathfield
> Kevin Stone said:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Here's my latest game:
>>
>> http://www.brainbashers.com/hitori
>>
>> Instructions clear?
>
> Yes.
>
>> Game play works correctly?
>
> No. Mouse clicks don't do anything (Konqueror).
FYI Works fine in Galeon - very nicely, in fact. (No change in
Konqueror, though.)
Kevin Stone
>> http://www.brainbashers.com/hitori
> No. Mouse clicks don't do anything (Konqueror).
Do the mouse clicks work in Nurikabe?
http://www.brainbashers.com/nurikabe
--
Kev
Barbara Bailey
The instructions: Not clear at all.
Is the white path supposed to contain one of each number in the grid?
Ccan it contain more than one of a number as long as they aren't in
the same row or column?
Does the path have any limitations on where it can or must start or
end? How many squares it must contain?
Mike Terry
news:lj89b3h17vksrn74t...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 4 Aug 2007 09:50:26 +0100, "Kevin Stone"
> <newsa...@hotpop.com> wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >Here's my latest game:
> >
> > http://www.brainbashers.com/hitori
> >
> >Instructions clear? Game play works correctly?
> >
> >Any comments will be appreciated.
> >
> >TIA
>
> The instructions: Not clear at all.
If there had been one more instruction, this would have answered all your
questions! Kevin could have added:
* There are no more restrictions other than those already listed.
:-)
> Is the white path supposed to contain one of each number in the grid?
No, there is no restriction saying this.
> Ccan it contain more than one of a number as long as they aren't in
> the same row or column?
Yes, there is no restriction preventing this.
> Does the path have any limitations on where it can or must start or
> end?
No, there are no restrictions mentioning starts or ends of paths, or even
that the path should have a start or end.
> How many squares it must contain?
As many as you like, given there are no restrictions mentioned for this!
One thing I did think was strange: there are "notes" on the intro page
which have the appearance of being the rules, but are incomplete, and
somebody looking at that page could well think "this isn't properly
defined". The actual rules appear on the puzzle page, so the "incomplete
rules" on the intro page are redundant. Maybe you were just looking at the
intro page?
Regards,
Mike.
Mike Terry
news:46b4a7df$0$1609$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
> "Barbara Bailey" <rabr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:lj89b3h17vksrn74t...@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 4 Aug 2007 09:50:26 +0100, "Kevin Stone"
> > <newsa...@hotpop.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Hi,
> > >
> > >Here's my latest game:
> > >
> > > http://www.brainbashers.com/hitori
> > >
> > >Instructions clear? Game play works correctly?
> > >
> > >Any comments will be appreciated.
> > >
> > >TIA
> >
> > The instructions: Not clear at all.
>
> If there had been one more instruction, this would have answered all your
> questions! Kevin could have added:
>
> * There are no more restrictions other than those already listed.
>
> :-)
>
> > Is the white path supposed to contain one of each number in the grid?
>
> No, there is no restriction saying this.
>
> > Ccan it contain more than one of a number as long as they aren't in
> > the same row or column?
>
> Yes, there is no restriction preventing this.
>
> > Does the path have any limitations on where it can or must start or
> > end?
>
> No, there are no restrictions mentioning starts or ends of paths, or even
> that the path should have a start or end.
Barbara, I've thought a bit more and think I see where you're coming from
now - it's down to Kevin's use of the word "path". This naturally suggests
a linear path with no branches, but in fact there is typically no such
linear path at the end, so I don't like Kevin's description. (I would even
go as far as to say it's wrong...)
All that is required is that the non-black squares remain a connected set.
So for any two non-black squares we could find an appropriate non-black path
connecting them, but the totality of non-black squares need not be a single
linear path.
Kevin Stone
Thanks for the comments, I'll have a think...
> All that is required is that the non-black squares remain a connected set.
> So for any two non-black squares we could find an appropriate non-black
> path
> connecting them, but the totality of non-black squares need not be a
> single
> linear path.
Clearer? I think not!
:)
--
Kev
Kevin Stone
> The instructions: Not clear at all.
I've updated them now....
Any improvement?
--
Kev
fin
>> The instructions: Not clear at all.
>
> I've updated them now....
>
> Any improvement?
How about:
All white squares must be connected horizontally or vertically.
Or maybe:
White squares must form a contiguous area where you can move
horizontally or vertically.
BTW, if you leave grey squares in the puzzle, you do not know if the
solution is unique.
Richard Heathfield
Not in Konqueror, no.
[Jongware]
news:3eydnZ9jh-p...@bt.com...
> Kevin Stone said:
>
> >>> http://www.brainbashers.com/hitori
> >
> >> No. Mouse clicks don't do anything (Konqueror).
> >
> > Do the mouse clicks work in Nurikabe?
> >
> > http://www.brainbashers.com/nurikabe
>
> Not in Konqueror, no.
Perhaps you need some lateral thinking.
Does your mouse work in Konqueror?
<g> -- [Jw]
Kevin Stone
> solution is unique.
In what way?
Once complete (i.e. all black identified), the grey turn white.
--
Kev
Barbara Bailey
Looking at it again, this is exactly where I was being confused. In
most puzzles that I have come across, "path" usually implies no dead
ends and no branches connected at only one end. It can include
complete loops.
Barbara Bailey
I'm not sure how to word it, (or I'd make a suggestion. 8-( )
Maybe "The shape formed by the white /grey cells has no restrictions,
so long as no white/grey cell is isolated from the rest of the board."
?
I dunno. That's awkward, but it's the best I can come up with right
now...
Barbara Bailey
<newsa...@hotpop.com> wrote:
>
>> The instructions: Not clear at all.
>
>I've updated them now....
>
>Any improvement?
Yeah, better for me. Thanks.
Barbara Bailey
>Kevin Stone wrote:
>>> The instructions: Not clear at all.
>>
>> I've updated them now....
>>
>> Any improvement?
>
>How about:
>All white squares must be connected horizontally or vertically.
That would be even better. Maybe "...connected horizontally or
vertically, or both." which makes it clearer that there may be
t-intersections.
Mark Tilford
>
>
>
>> The instructions: Not clear at all.
>
> I've updated them now....
>
> Any improvement?
>
There are going to be far more white squares than black squares, but
it takes one click to make a square black and two to make it white.
Patrick Hamlyn
Not lateral enough. Does your mouse work?
No wait.
Do you have a mouse?
--
Patrick Hamlyn posting from Perth, Western Australia
Windsurfing capital of the Southern Hemisphere
Moderator: polyforms group (polyforms...@egroups.com)
Abigail
Mark Tilford (ralphm...@gmail.com) wrote on VLXXXVII September
MCMXCIII in <URL:news:slrnfba95u.gfs...@news.charter.net>:
++ On 2007-08-04, Kevin Stone <newsa...@hotpop.com> wrote:
++ >
++ >
++ >
++ >> The instructions: Not clear at all.
++ >
++ > I've updated them now....
++ >
++ > Any improvement?
++ >
++
++ There are going to be far more white squares than black squares, but
++ it takes one click to make a square black and two to make it white.
No, it doesn't. It makes one click to make it black, and one click to
make it white. Sure, you can *also* make it white in two clicks (or
black in two clicks), but you don't have to use two clicks.
Abigail
Patrick Hamlyn
Works well in Firefox, instructions good, but if you get redirected to the
HitoriConquest site (as I did when I selected a 9x9, maybe you guys switched
over to tomorrow somewhere along the line), then you have to put up with all the
crap that you've fixed on your user interface:
Right-click doesn't work, you have to mark every non-black square by clicking it
twice, and you have to click 'check' after all that.
Makes it not worth playing all the older ones which aren't hosted by your site.
The whole puzzle can be solved in say 30 seconds, then you have to spend another
two minutes clicking squares twice...
Kevin Stone
> Works well in Firefox, instructions good, but if you get redirected to the
> HitoriConquest site
BrainBashers only has today's puzzles. That's my part of the deal, which
works well for both sites.
Hitori will be available on Today @ BrainBashers from Friday 10th August:
http://www.brainbashers.com/today
--
Kev
fin
Ok, I had some filter blocking that functionality. But why do the grey
turn white automatically? Why does the page solve a part of the puzzle?
The puzzle is not complete when all blacks are identified, it is
complete when all blacks and all whites are identified. If a square is
grey, the solver has not determined that it is _not_ black.
Patrick Hamlyn
Since there are no longer any duplicates, all that the solver has left to do is
1) check that fact (completely mechanical operation) and 2) mark all the squares
white (ditto)
I for one would rather the 'puter did that.
fin
> fin <SP...@mailinator.com> wrote:
>
>> The puzzle is not complete when all blacks are identified, it is
>> complete when all blacks and all whites are identified. If a square is
>> grey, the solver has not determined that it is _not_ black.
>
> Since there are no longer any duplicates, all that the solver has left to do is
> 1) check that fact (completely mechanical operation) and 2) mark all the squares
> white (ditto)
I said : "the solver has not determined"
You say: "the solver has determined"
And why do it automatically? Why not wait for "I'm done" (one click)
from the solver?
Willem
) fin <SP...@mailinator.com> wrote:
)
)>Kevin Stone wrote:
)>>> BTW, if you leave grey squares in the puzzle, you do not know if the
)>>> solution is unique.
)>>
)>> In what way?
)>>
)>> Once complete (i.e. all black identified), the grey turn white.
)>
)>Ok, I had some filter blocking that functionality. But why do the grey
)>turn white automatically? Why does the page solve a part of the puzzle?
)>
)>The puzzle is not complete when all blacks are identified, it is
)>complete when all blacks and all whites are identified. If a square is
)>grey, the solver has not determined that it is _not_ black.
)
) Since there are no longer any duplicates, all that the solver has left to do is
) 1) check that fact (completely mechanical operation) and 2) mark all the squares
) white (ditto)
)
) I for one would rather the 'puter did that.
I disagree. Doing that, you have found *a* solution. However, to *really*
solve the puzzle, you also have to determine that all those squares *have*
to be white. Some of them *could* be black, after all, the puzzle rules
don't forbid you to mark a square black if it doesn't have to be.
SaSW, Willem
--
Disclaimer: I am in no way responsible for any of the statements
made in the above text. For all I know I might be
drugged or something..
No I'm not paranoid. You all think I'm paranoid, don't you !
#EOT
Kevin Stone
Objective is to find all Black, no more, no less.
(any number that has no duplicates in the row and col it is in MUST be
white, as there's nothing that can ever force it to be black)
AND:
- objective of tents is to find all tents
- objective of Nongrams to find all black...
- the objective depends on the game
--
Kev
George Weinberg
@mid.individual.net:
So how about having Nurikabe score you as a "win" once you've
found all the islands (and don't have any erroneous ones)? It seems
to me that, following the same pattern, you shouldn't have to turn all the
water blue.
George
Kevin Stone
>> Objective is to find all Black, no more, no less.
> So how about having Nurikabe score you as a "win" once you've
> found all the islands
That's the way it is.
I don't invent the rules, they already exist. I simply implement them.
--
Kev
fin
>
> Objective is to find all Black, no more, no less.
>
> (any number that has no duplicates in the row and col it is in MUST be
> white, as there's nothing that can ever force it to be black)
But it _can_ be black unless there's something that forces it to be
white. If the puzzle has exactly one solution, there is something that
forces it to be white.
Example (x=black):
2 1 x
1 2 3
x 3 x
The 2 in the middle must be white. Not because there are no duplicates
in the row/col but because if it were black, the white area would not be
contiguous. The 2 in the corner can be black because nothing forces it
to be white. => The puzzle has two solutions (and is invalid).
However, I usually assume that puzzles are valid and mark all
non-duplicates white (if I happen to notice them, usually I solve by
"forcing" blacks and whites).
My main reason against automatic completion is:
If the solver has not marked the square white, how do you know that the
solver has even looked that there are no duplicates? Why not wait for
one-click confirmation (add a new button: "I'm done")?
I am human, I need time. Even if the solving aid can spot instantly that
the puzzle is complete, I can still be solving and checking. I am done
when say so, not before, and definitely not when some over-helpful
solving aid tells me.
Kevin Stone
>> Objective is to find all Black, no more, no less.
> My main reason against automatic completion is:
This isn't auto completion, you only have find the black.
Imagine playing this on a piece of paper (as the originals were), then you
only have to eliminate until their are no duplicates. Marking the squares
(e.g. in white) is only an aid and not a requirement.
However, it's easy to change if enough people want me to?
--
Kev
Barbara Bailey
Why not just rewrite the "objectivel" explanation to say "The goal is
to mark all of the black squares. It is not necessary to mark all of
the white squares."
Or: "The objective is to mark the minimum numbers of squares to
eliminate duplicates in all rows and columns."
Willem
)
)>> Objective is to find all Black, no more, no less.
)
)> My main reason against automatic completion is:
)
) This isn't auto completion, you only have find the black.
Yes, but it's very unsatisfying that suddenly the app tells me that I have
found all the blacks when I would still be looking for more numbers to
eliminate. It just feels as if the app finished the puzzle for you.
) Imagine playing this on a piece of paper (as the originals were), then you
) only have to eliminate until their are no duplicates. Marking the squares
) (e.g. in white) is only an aid and not a requirement.
Yes, but a piece of paper doesn't jump at you with "you win" as soon as
you've marked all the black squares. On paper, you have to convince
yourself that you've gotten them all.
) However, it's easy to change if enough people want me to?
Here's one vote. :-)
fin
>>> Objective is to find all Black, no more, no less.
>
>> My main reason against automatic completion is:
>
> This isn't auto completion, you only have find the black.
But it is auto-completion or perhaps auto-checking if I am not done.
Even if the program knows there are no more blacks, I - the solver - may
not know that yet. Do not tell me there are no more blacks, let me find
that out myself, please.
> Imagine playing this on a piece of paper (as the originals were), then you
> only have to eliminate until their are no duplicates. Marking the squares
> (e.g. in white) is only an aid and not a requirement.
I am used to solving -- not "playing" -- hitori (and other puzzles) on
paper. Imagine somebody looking over your shoulder and taking your
pencil away and telling you have solved the puzzle when you are still
solving. Would you like that?
> However, it's easy to change if enough people want me to?
Solving the puzzle requires a lot of clicks. An extra click to say "I'm
done" is not very much.
Why not make this auto-check feature an option (for all puzzle types)?
dgates
<newsa...@hotpop.com> wrote:
>
>> Works well in Firefox, instructions good, but if you get redirected to the
>> HitoriConquest site
>
>BrainBashers only has today's puzzles. That's my part of the deal, which
>works well for both sites...
On a barely related note...
I tried the "Moving Puzzle" on your site:
http://www.brainbashers.com/gameloader/loader.asp?game=390&width=887&height=341
which I guess is actually loading the puzzle game from another site,
and I think I found the source of the condition described as "I heard
sometimes you can't complete even you solve it."
I would guess that the puzzle accepts one and only one answer. But
that, in the "Hard" mode where you can rotate the moving pieces, there
are actually four possible correct answers.
My guess is that, even if you get the bouncing ball all nice and lined
up, you still only have a 25% chance of the puzzle deciding that you
solved it correctly.
But it was still fun playing with the bouncing ball.
Kevin Stone
The new objective is:
Identify all of the Black squares
and
Identify all of the White squares
--
Kev
Kevin Stone
>
> Here's one vote. :-)
Changed...
--
Kev
Kevin Stone
> I tried the "Moving Puzzle" on your site:
>
> http://www.brainbashers.com/gameloader/loader.asp?game=390&width=887&height=341
>
> which I guess is actually loading the puzzle game from another site
True.
> My guess is that, even if you get the bouncing ball all nice and lined
> up, you still only have a 25% chance of the puzzle deciding that you
> solved it correctly.
Perhaps it does check it correctly?
--
Kev
Patrick Hamlyn
And now we have the worst of both worlds.
You're now forced to click every non-black square to white.
It went from a cute, quick little game to something I wouldn't bother with.
If you are going to force the solver to decide when it's done (which I can see
has merit for some), then at least add the 'I'm done' button which turns all
greys to whites. If purists don't like it they don't press it.
dgates
I don't think so. I got the puzzle into what was certainly a correct
position and nothing happened.
Try solving it on "Hard." Try it twice if you think you accidentally
slipped into the 25% loophole on your first try.
I'm mostly mentioning it because I thought it was basically a fun
puzzle. Before I realized that I could rotated the pieces, I did a
fair amount of speculating on scenarios that might be good for
alternate (superhard) puzzles.
Abigail
Willem (wil...@stack.nl) wrote on VLXXXVII September MCMXCIII in
<URL:news:slrnfbbkn0....@turtle.stack.nl>:
++ Patrick wrote:
++ ) fin <SP...@mailinator.com> wrote:
++ )
++ )>Kevin Stone wrote:
++ )>>> BTW, if you leave grey squares in the puzzle, you do not know if the
++ )>>> solution is unique.
++ )>>
++ )>> In what way?
++ )>>
++ )>> Once complete (i.e. all black identified), the grey turn white.
++ )>
++ )>Ok, I had some filter blocking that functionality. But why do the grey
++ )>turn white automatically? Why does the page solve a part of the puzzle?
++ )>
++ )>The puzzle is not complete when all blacks are identified, it is
++ )>complete when all blacks and all whites are identified. If a square is
++ )>grey, the solver has not determined that it is _not_ black.
++ )
++ ) Since there are no longer any duplicates, all that the solver has left to do is
++ ) 1) check that fact (completely mechanical operation) and 2) mark all the squares
++ ) white (ditto)
++ )
++ ) I for one would rather the 'puter did that.
++
++ I disagree. Doing that, you have found *a* solution. However, to *really*
++ solve the puzzle, you also have to determine that all those squares *have*
++ to be white. Some of them *could* be black, after all, the puzzle rules
++ don't forbid you to mark a square black if it doesn't have to be.
But the puzzles are proper: there is just one solution. So, if you have *a*
solution, you have *the* solution.
Abigail
Abigail
Kevin Stone (newsa...@hotpop.com) wrote on VLXXXVII September MCMXCIII
in <URL:news:5hmhncF...@mid.individual.net>:
++
++ >> Objective is to find all Black, no more, no less.
++
++ > My main reason against automatic completion is:
++
++ This isn't auto completion, you only have find the black.
++
++ Imagine playing this on a piece of paper (as the originals were), then you
++ only have to eliminate until their are no duplicates. Marking the squares
++ (e.g. in white) is only an aid and not a requirement.
++
++ However, it's easy to change if enough people want me to?
I prefer it as is. But you could make a tickbox (default off) that,
when ticked, makes the logic so that it doesn't say the puzzle is solved
unless a button is pressed.
As it is now, it works like the other puzzles. You don't have to lock
all the network pieces, tick all the trees, etc.
Abigail
Kevin Stone
> Here's my latest game:
>
I've gone back to my original way (and the standard way) of thinking now.
The rules are "find all duplicates". Once you've done that, the puzzle is
complete.
It doesn't matter if you've any grey left.
But I won't colour the grey to white on finding all of the Black.
--
Kev
Kevin Stone
Changed again - final time hopefully.
The system will only check if all squares are Black or White. If all Black
have been found AND white, then you're told it's complete.
However, you can click CHECK at any time you think you've all the Black and
if you have, the puzzle is complete.
--
Kev
dgates
If I'm reading this thread correctly, you could add a button that says
something like "Mark all white squares as grey" or "Mark all untested
squares as white" or something.
Alternatively, you could also add a button that says something like
"Try this solution" or "I think I've got it" or "Submit this guess."
George Weinberg
@mid.individual.net:
>
>>> Objective is to find all Black, no more, no less.
>
>> So how about having Nurikabe score you as a "win" once you've
>> found all the islands
>
> That's the way it is.
>
No it isn't. Right now you have to paint all the water blue also.
It should score a win even if some of the water is still grey.
George
Kevin Stone
>> That's the way it is.
>>
>
> No it isn't. Right now you have to paint all the water blue also.
> It should score a win even if some of the water is still grey.
Sorry, by "that's the way it is" I mean that it's "that way by design".
--
Kev
Mark Tilford
Either the author fixed the problem, or I got lucky three times in a
row.
dgates
Hmm, or it works better in your browser than in mine (Mozilla
Firefox).
Mark Tilford
No; the other day I usually had to rotate the whole puzzle after solving
it; now it's either fixed or I've guessed the correct orientation all
five times. And I'm also running Firefox.
Barbara Bailey
<ralphm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 2007-08-05, dgates <dga...@somedomain.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 10:03:36 +0100, "Kevin Stone"
>><newsa...@hotpop.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> Works well in Firefox, instructions good, but if you get redirected to the
>>>> HitoriConquest site
>>>
>>>BrainBashers only has today's puzzles. That's my part of the deal, which
>>>works well for both sites...
>>
>>
>> On a barely related note...
>>
>> I tried the "Moving Puzzle" on your site:
>>
>> http://www.brainbashers.com/gameloader/loader.asp?game=390&width=887&height=341
>>
>> which I guess is actually loading the puzzle game from another site,
>> and I think I found the source of the condition described as "I heard
>> sometimes you can't complete even you solve it."
>>
>> I would guess that the puzzle accepts one and only one answer. But
>> that, in the "Hard" mode where you can rotate the moving pieces, there
>> are actually four possible correct answers.
How do you rotate the pieces?
dgates
<rabr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 12:17:50 GMT, Mark Tilford
><ralphm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2007-08-05, dgates <dga...@somedomain.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 10:03:36 +0100, "Kevin Stone"
>>><newsa...@hotpop.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Works well in Firefox, instructions good, but if you get redirected to the
>>>>> HitoriConquest site
>>>>
>>>>BrainBashers only has today's puzzles. That's my part of the deal, which
>>>>works well for both sites...
>>>
>>>
>>> On a barely related note...
>>>
>>> I tried the "Moving Puzzle" on your site:
>>>
>>> http://www.brainbashers.com/gameloader/loader.asp?game=390&width=887&height=341
>>>
>>> which I guess is actually loading the puzzle game from another site,
>>> and I think I found the source of the condition described as "I heard
>>> sometimes you can't complete even you solve it."
>>>
>>> I would guess that the puzzle accepts one and only one answer. But
>>> that, in the "Hard" mode where you can rotate the moving pieces, there
>>> are actually four possible correct answers.
>
>How do you rotate the pieces?
Left and right arrows, IIRC.
There are actually instructions; I think you see them before you start
the game, however.
Richard Sabey
> http://www.brainbashers.com/hitori
Your instructions as to how to use the mouse appear to be wrong. You
write
>Mouse Usage
>Left-click = Grey >> Black >> White >> Grey.
>Right-click = Grey >> White >> Black >> Grey.
This is true if the mouse is set up "left-handed", i.e. so that the
right button is button 1, but the reverse is true if the mouse is set
up "right-handed", i.e. so that the left button is button 1.
It is curious: a more common error is for the instructions to assume
that the mouse is set up "right-handed".
To be correct no matter which way the user has set the mouse up, the
instructions should be:
Mouse Usage
Button 1 = Grey >> White >> Black >> Grey.
Button 2 = Grey >> Black >> White >> Grey.
Kevin Stone
> It is curious: a more common error is for the instructions to assume
> that the mouse is set up "right-handed".
Surely as most people have the default set-up, anyone who's changed their
set-up will be astute enough to know?
--
Kev
Simon Tatham
> Surely as most people have the default set-up, anyone who's changed their
> set-up will be astute enough to know?
One of Richard's points is that the instructions are backwards even
in the _default_ mouse setup. Left-clicking in a grey square turned
it white when I tried it just now, whereas the instructions say
left-clicking in a grey square turns it black.
I think I agree with your point here, though: I'm unconvinced that
`button 1' and `button 2' are a sufficiently universal terminology,
or sufficiently easily understood by computer novices, that they
should be used in place of `left' and `right', since as you say
anyone who's reconfigured their mouse the opposite way round is
likely to know they've done so. If nothing else, if I _had_ to
number mouse buttons, it isn't clear to me that I'd instinctively
number left=1 and right=2. I might just as well number them 0 and 1,
or I might number them so that 0,1,2 or 1,2,3 corresponded to
left,middle,right in that order. Message names in the Windows API
include WM_{L,M,R}BUTTON{DOWN,UP}, in particular, so it's hard to
argue that `left', `middle' and `right' aren't well defined concepts
in mouse terminology even if they don't necessarily match up to the
geography of a particular mouse.
--
Simon Tatham "The voices in my head are trying to ignore me.
<ana...@pobox.com> But if I keep talking, I can drive them insane."
LDC
In the default set-up, a left click on a grey square yields a white
square.
The instructions are in error.
Kevin Stone
> square.
>
> The instructions are in error.
Corrected.
--
Kev