Indoor koi - Repost
Sharon Bolton
I am using a 2'x2'x6' horse trough in my home to house my koi. I am
estimating this holds about 150 gallons, which I think is a
conservative estimate but better than over-estimating. There are 5
koi in this tank which add up to about 25" of fish. Three are 2-3
year old koi which were stunted to about 5"; two are young fish of
4-5". The older 3 spawn regularly. (After a spawning episode I
usually do a water change of 60-75 gallons.)
I am running a Supreme Pondmaster 1500 garden pond filter system in
this pond with the fountain set for a mushroom. I have added
additional media for bio-filtering in the bottom of the filter and
regularly add Stress-Zyme to promote the filtration, since the tank is
only about a month old. There has been no bloom or cloudiness. I
also net out all solid wastes from the bottom of the tank every day or
so. At the moment the water reading for ammonia is .5-1 PPM, but I
have used Ammo-Lock and am filtering with ammonia-removing carbon to
eliminate it.
Nitrites read 0 and PH is about 8.2-8.6. Water temp is 77 degrees.
The fish are showing no signs of stress. There are no live plants in
the tank; I'm using plastic plants as spawning mops. I'm not
attempting to raise the babies, except for one spawn's worth which are
outside.
I alternate feeding Hikari Gold and Pond Care Summer Staple food.
Since my family (including the dogs and cats) get such a kick out of
the fish, I feed them every hour or so, but only one or two pellets
per fish each time.
Does anyone have any advice for me in this situation? Am I over or
under feeding? Can the color of the 3 older Kohakus (Bertha, George
and Heidi) be improved from their orange goldfish color to red? Will
the Tancho mark in the young diamond scale Kohaku actually improve
from it's rather transparent color to the deeper red marks it has
elsewhere? And can someone explain to me what I've got in little
Butter -- a metallic fish of almost Post-It note yellow of whom I am
particularly fond? At 4", is the color established?
How long before the outdoor fry are identifiable as koi?
And is the _Tetra Book of Koi_ or _The Professional's Book of Koi_ a
better book for a beginner? I have just subscribed to KOI USA, but
not received it yet.
Any and all information is welcome!
Sharon in Phoenix
"Through scientific methods we are going to determine if this
cat is a witch. We're going to hold it under water for a real
long time. If it survives, it is a witch and we will have to
burn it at the stake. Nothing personal,that's just what we do
here. If it drowns, we will know it's not a witch and a
letter of apology will be written." Judge, Witch Hunter &
Notary; Animaniacs
Kellie Snider
Sharon Bolton wrote:
>
> I am using a 2'x2'x6' horse trough in my home to house my koi. I am
> estimating this holds about 150 gallons, which I think is a
> conservative estimate but better than over-estimating. There are 5
> koi in this tank which add up to about 25" of fish. Three are 2-3
> year old koi which were stunted to about 5"; two are young fish of
> 4-5". The older 3 spawn regularly. (After a spawning episode I
> usually do a water change of 60-75 gallons.)
Sharon, I found your repost! Sorry I didn't respond to the previous
one, but I couldn't find it! Unfortunately I think some of this is out
of my league... I don't have any koi, indoor tanks or filtration...
However, I will ask a couple of things, if you don't mind... and make
some comments that might help you think of what to do next.
> I am running a Supreme Pondmaster 1500 garden pond filter system in
> this pond with the fountain set for a mushroom. I have added
> additional media for bio-filtering in the bottom of the filter and
> regularly add Stress-Zyme to promote the filtration, since the tank is
> only about a month old. There has been no bloom or cloudiness. I
> also net out all solid wastes from the bottom of the tank every day or
> so. At the moment the water reading for ammonia is .5-1 PPM, but I
> have used Ammo-Lock and am filtering with ammonia-removing carbon to
> eliminate it.
My GUESS is that the ammonia level is up because the pond is new, and
because you're changing so much water so frequently. Why are you
changing so much? I think a 20% warter change is the maximum you
should attempt, and I'd recommend doing none until the water quality
improves. I also _suggest_ adding a dose of liquid bacteria to the
water or to the filter.
I learned from my days as an aquarium owner that what I thought was
healthy was actually bad for my fish... what seemed clean to me
(Changing the water often and cleaning the filter media too well) was
either sterile (they need the bacterial colony to be well established...
if you're filtering it should not be washed out of the filter... just a
light rinse) or poison for them (City water contains chlorine or
chloramines. Chloramines are a molecule of chlorine attached to a
molecule of ammonia... it doesn't dissapate well at all, and is fatal
to fish. Chlorine will evaporate out of the water in two or three
days... Chloramines may take 3 to 4 weeks... or longer.) Using the
purifying agents is good in moderation, but that bacterial colony must
be present for the pond to become established. For this reason change
water as INfrequently as you can.
> Nitrites read 0 and PH is about 8.2-8.6. Water temp is 77 degrees.
This pH is on the high side, and any ammonia at all is too much.
Temperature is of little concern for goldfish, and probably koi
(experts? Comments?) ... unless it gets extremely hot and they can't get
enough oxygen. The way I have treated for high pH is to add vinegar
weakened with water. (1/2c vinegar to 1 gallon water per 100 gallons of
tank volume... sprinkled around the edges so there isn't a high
concentration in one place.) This will lower pH gradually. I do know
that gradual lowering is essential. Lower it too quickly and it will
harm the fish. Repeat the vinegar treatment every few days until the pH
is good. Another way is to put a pantyhose bag of peat moss or oak
leaves in the pond and let it stay until the pH is lowered. High pH is
harmful over a period of time, but not so harmful as a rapid change of
pH.
> The fish are showing no signs of stress. There are no live plants in
> the tank; I'm using plastic plants as spawning mops. I'm not
> attempting to raise the babies, except for one spawn's worth which are
> outside.
I'm afraid they will begin to if the water quality isn't improved...
I recommend plants because they are good for the fish... Since you are
filtering they aren't essential, but in my mind it seems better to have
some... Just an opinion. They are healthy food for the fish, and they
help remove ammonia from the water. Underwater grasses, especially.
> I alternate feeding Hikari Gold and Pond Care Summer Staple food.
> Since my family (including the dogs and cats) get such a kick out of
> the fish, I feed them every hour or so, but only one or two pellets
> per fish each time.
I'd reduce the feeding to twice a day, no more than they can eat in five
minutes- at least until that ammonia level goes down. If it were
goldfish I would recommend reducing to 1 time a day. Fish food= Fish
waste= ammonia. Fish have virtually no digestive system. What goes
in one end comes out the other. Oh! Koi like things like lettuce
and duckweed... if I were you I'd consider adding some of this to their
diets. It's far healthier than the pet store stuff anyway.
> Does anyone have any advice for me in this situation? Am I over or
> under feeding? Can the color of the 3 older Kohakus (Bertha, George
> and Heidi) be improved from their orange goldfish color to red? Will
> the Tancho mark in the young diamond scale Kohaku actually improve
> from it's rather transparent color to the deeper red marks it has
> elsewhere? And can someone explain to me what I've got in little
> Butter -- a metallic fish of almost Post-It note yellow of whom I am
> particularly fond? At 4", is the color established?
All I know is that high levels of algae are supposed to help fish color,
there are some foods which claim to enhance color, and some fish will
continue to change color after 4" according to Ken Druse's book, _Water
Gardens_.
> How long before the outdoor fry are identifiable as koi?
Don't know...
> And is the _Tetra Book of Koi_ or _The Professional's Book of Koi_ a
> better book for a beginner? I have just subscribed to KOI USA, but
> not received it yet.
Don't know...
> Any and all information is welcome!
Why is your aquarium indoors? Is this the permanent set up? Just
curious. My house isn't big enough for a 150 gallon pond inside!
>
> Sharon in Phoenix
> "Through scientific methods we are going to determine if this
> cat is a witch. We're going to hold it under water for a real
> long time. If it survives, it is a witch and we will have to
> burn it at the stake. Nothing personal,that's just what we do
> here. If it drowns, we will know it's not a witch and a
> letter of apology will be written." Judge, Witch Hunter &
> Notary; Animaniacs
Kellie
My Karma ran over my Dogma.
It was a Catastrophe.
Sharon Bolton
Kellie Snider <Kel...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Why is your aquarium indoors? Is this the permanent set up? Just
>curious. My house isn't big enough for a 150 gallon pond inside!
It's inside because I live in Phoenix and when it is 110 degrees or
higher outside I just don't feel much like sitting out there watching
the fish. Not to mention the fact that the water temp gets up in the
90's and there's no oxygen. And also because I had room! (What? 18
square feet of available floor space? Put some fish there!)
Sharon in Phoenix
hot and grumpy outside, cool and happy indoors
rz...@ix.netcom.com
>> I am using a 2'x2'x6' horse trough in my home to house my koi. I am
Your Koi will eventually out grow this small of an area. If they are
kept in it the larger ones will die off first as the stress will be
evident to the larger fish first.
>> estimating this holds about 150 gallons, which I think is a
That is about right.
>> conservative estimate but better than over-estimating. There are 5
>> koi in this tank which add up to about 25" of fish. Three are 2-3
>> year old koi which were stunted to about 5";
Are you sure that these were actual Koi and not what the pet store
calls Koi? I purchased some 'feeder' goldfish that my local pet store
calls Comets. Perhaps they are a variety of goldfish. The goldfish
will grow according to their enviornment, Koi will not.
>> 4-5". The older 3 spawn regularly. (After a spawning episode I
>> usually do a water change of 60-75 gallons.)
What is regularly?
>> I am running a Supreme Pondmaster 1500 garden pond filter system in
>> this pond with the fountain set for a mushroom. I have added
>> additional media for bio-filtering in the bottom of the filter and
>> regularly add Stress-Zyme to promote the filtration, since the tank is
>> only about a month old. There has been no bloom or cloudiness. I
There probably wont be an algae bloom since the pond is located
indoors and out of direct sunlight. It could still get cloudy but the
cloudiness would be associated with a dirty tank.
>> so. At the moment the water reading for ammonia is .5-1 PPM, but I
>> have used Ammo-Lock and am filtering with ammonia-removing carbon to
>> eliminate it.
The Ammo-Lock should have elimanted the ammonia in the water. Was the
water treated after filling and before the fish?
>because you're changing so much water so frequently. Why are you
The water changes are ok since you are doing them -after- a spawning.
Try to do a 20% change over several days. Remember every time you
change the water you are replacing the chemicals you just worked so
hard to remove.
>improves. I also _suggest_ adding a dose of liquid bacteria to the
>water or to the filter.
Your biological filter is still maturing so the addition of any type
of bacteria (pond/aquairium) will help speed the process of
establishing a bio filter.
>> Nitrites read 0 and PH is about 8.2-8.6. Water temp is 77 degrees.
What about Nitr-i-tes? They are the middle process of breaking down
the ammonia into useful nitr-a-tes.
>Temperature is of little concern for goldfish, and probably koi
>(experts? Comments?) ... unless it gets extremely hot and they can't get
Koi will feed less often if the water temperature is low. As the
water temperature increases the Koi, as well as other fish, will
become more active.
>I'd reduce the feeding to twice a day, no more than they can eat in five
>minutes- at least until that ammonia level goes down. If it were
If at all possible stop the feeding altogether and add some plants for
the fish to nibble on while the ammonia level is brought under
control.
>in one end comes out the other. Oh! Koi like things like lettuce
>and duckweed... if I were you I'd consider adding some of this to their
>diets. It's far healthier than the pet store stuff anyway.
Koi should be fed at min of 32% protien from their food. Lettuce and
duckweed probably will not meet this requirment. This is just for
maximum growth and color.
>All I know is that high levels of algae are supposed to help fish color,
The algae is good for all fish. It provides them with a source of
food and also allows for natural color enhancment. My 7" Comets are a
nice deep orange color and my Gold Koi has growed at least 3 inches
since it was introduced in our pond in May.
Sharon Bolton
rz...@ix.netcom.com (rz...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>>> I am using a 2'x2'x6' horse trough in my home to house my koi. I am
>Your Koi will eventually out grow this small of an area. If they are
>kept in it the larger ones will die off first as the stress will be
>evident to the larger fish first.
Yeah, I'm planning a 1000 gal pond for outside and maybe another 500
gallon in the house. This is temporary. But it would help if someone
would *please* tell me how big koi will be at 6 months and at a year!
>>> conservative estimate but better than over-estimating. There are 5
>>> koi in this tank which add up to about 25" of fish. Three are 2-3
>>> year old koi which were stunted to about 5";
>Are you sure that these were actual Koi and not what the pet store
>calls Koi? I purchased some 'feeder' goldfish that my local pet store
>calls Comets. Perhaps they are a variety of goldfish. The goldfish
>will grow according to their enviornment, Koi will not.
Yep, they're koi alright. In fact, Alexrod confirms that he also
dwarved some koi. He doesn't mention whether they spawned or not.
The reference is in _Koi Varieties_. While the other fish are
obviously growing, these are not. I'm curious to see if they begin.
>>> 4-5". The older 3 spawn regularly. (After a spawning episode I
>>> usually do a water change of 60-75 gallons.)
>What is regularly?
So far we're running about 4-5 days between episodes. I'm going to
have to point this schedule out to my husband... <g>
BTW, the ammonia is gone.
rz...@ix.netcom.com
qui...@netzone.com (Sharon Bolton) wrote:
>Yeah, I'm planning a 1000 gal pond for outside and maybe another 500
>gallon in the house. This is temporary. But it would help if someone
>would *please* tell me how big koi will be at 6 months and at a year!
I am not sure how fast they will grow. Koi will grow their fastest
before reaching maturity. After that they will slow down and grow at a
slower rate.
>Yep, they're koi alright. In fact, Alexrod confirms that he also
>dwarved some koi. He doesn't mention whether they spawned or not.
Interesting. Must be from a cross breeding the fish with a smaller
variety of fish.
>>What is regularly?
>So far we're running about 4-5 days between episodes. I'm going to
Wow! You should have small fry everywhere!
>have to point this schedule out to my husband... <g>
Perhaps this is why your husband hasn't 'noticed' the spawning
episodes. :)
>BTW, the ammonia is gone.
That is good. The AmmoLock says it works instantly but it still needs
time. I would keep a close eye on it though since the fish are
spawning so frequently.
Roger
frank ruckman
qui...@netzone.com (Sharon Bolton) wrote:
>rz...@ix.netcom.com (rz...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>
>
>>>> I am using a 2'x2'x6' horse trough in my home to house my koi. I am
>
>>kept in it the larger ones will die off first as the stress will be
>>evident to the larger fish first.
>
>gallon in the house. This is temporary. But it would help if someone
>would *please* tell me how big koi will be at 6 months and at a year!
>
>>>> koi in this tank which add up to about 25" of fish. Three are 2-3
>>>> year old koi which were stunted to about 5";
>
>>calls Koi? I purchased some 'feeder' goldfish that my local pet store
>>calls Comets. Perhaps they are a variety of goldfish. The goldfish
>>will grow according to their enviornment, Koi will not.
>
>dwarved some koi. He doesn't mention whether they spawned or not.
>obviously growing, these are not. I'm curious to see if they begin.
>
>>>> usually do a water change of 60-75 gallons.)
>
>
>So far we're running about 4-5 days between episodes. I'm going to
>
>
>"Through scientific methods we are going to determine if this
>cat is a witch. We're going to hold it under water for a real
>long time. If it survives, it is a witch and we will have to
>burn it at the stake. Nothing personal,that's just what we do
> here. If it drowns, we will know it's not a witch and a
>letter of apology will be written." Judge, Witch Hunter &
>Notary; Animaniacs
>
Hi Sharon. I'm glad the ammonia is gone. It scares me. I just about wet
myself if I get a positive test for ammonia at any level.
Depending on feeding, water quality, and water quality, Koi can easily be
6-8 in. in 6 months. They can hit 12in in a year in my pond but we have
a winter with no feeding to conted with. Indoors they could hit this
sooner. Water quality and Water quality and water quality.
Good Luck Frank
Kellie Snider
> Are you sure that these were actual Koi and not what the pet store
> calls Koi? I purchased some 'feeder' goldfish that my local pet store
> calls Comets. Perhaps they are a variety of goldfish. The goldfish
> will grow according to their enviornment, Koi will not.
Comets are goldfish with extra long tails but most pet stores ahve a
tank with billions of goldfish fry in it and call them all comets. If
you're selective you can get some good fish. Some of my favorites were
once 8c feeders!
> The water changes are ok since you are doing them -after- a spawning.
> Try to do a 20% change over several days. Remember every time you
> change the water you are replacing the chemicals you just worked so
> hard to remove.
AND removing bacteria the fish need to thrive.
> My 7" Comets are a
> nice deep orange color and my Gold Koi has growed at least 3 inches
> since it was introduced in our pond in May.
My goldfish (Plains, Fans and comets) are also of good color... the
telescope eye is nearly red, and the others are quite rich in color.
All are growing like weeds. Some have grown four inches this summer!
--
Sharon Bolton
rz...@ix.netcom.com (rz...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>>Yep, they're koi alright. In fact, Alexrod confirms that he also
>>dwarved some koi. He doesn't mention whether they spawned or not.
>Interesting. Must be from a cross breeding the fish with a smaller
>variety of fish.
>Roger
This is from _Koi Varieties_ by Axelrod, chapter 7, "Long-finned &
Pygmy Koi", pg 71.
Summary: His fry were from a pair of long fin koi from Singapore,
about 25". He used them for a feeding experiment, comparing German
foods to Japanese foods. The Japanese food put 3xs the growth on the
fish. He decided to stop the experiment and put all the fish back
together and feed them the Japanese food. Couldn't catch a dozen or
so, which remained in the separate pond -- and then proceded not to
grow.
"If you want to stunt the growth and to have dwarf koi, just put them
into an aquarium when they are very small and feed them very limited
amounts of flake food. Don't use foods which have more than 35%
protein. Feed them as much as they will eat in one minute -- but only
twice a week. This should produce colorful, stunted koi not larger
than 6" (15 cm).. They seem never to grow larger."
I am definitely NOT taking this advice with my new fish. I feed them
every hour, about one pellet each. I've figured out that they get the
same amount of food they'd get if I fed them three times a day for 5
minutes at a time, they just get it spread out more evenly. And I get
to spend more frequent time admiring them.
Sharon in Phoenix
Greg Bickal
Could the same be true in raising Comets ? I had a Comet that only got 4
inches long and stopped growing after that. No growth for over 2 years.
It was in a 30 gallon aquarium for 2 years, and then a 55 gallon for 1 year.
I only fed my fish twice a day. I have noticed that my fish grow slower
than my friend's fish, and I always wondered if its how I feed them or the
"A watched pot never boils syndrome".
Kellie Snider
> Could the same be true in raising Comets ?
Comets, and all goldfish release a hormone which regulates their growth.
If they are in cramped or crowded quarters they stop growing.
> I had a Comet that only got 4> inches long and stopped growing after that. No growth for over 2 years.
My 2" feeders purchased in May are 5" and 6" long already.
> It was in a 30 gallon aquarium for 2 years, and then a 55 gallon for 1 year.
I wonder if the hormone makes the growth stop in the initial maturation
process and it never starts up again. That's what it sounds like.
Biologists? TELL US PLEASE!
> I only fed my fish twice a day.
I feed mine only once a day, but in the pond environment there are
plenty of bugs and algae and roots and stuff to nibble on.
> I have noticed that my fish grow slower> than my friend's fish, and I
>always wondered if its how I feed them or the> "A watched pot never
>boils syndrome".
What are your friend's fish kept in?
--
Kellie Snider
> "If you want to stunt the growth and to have dwarf koi, just put them
> into an aquarium when they are very small and feed them very limited
> amounts of flake food. Don't use foods which have more than 35%
> protein. Feed them as much as they will eat in one minute -- but only
> twice a week. This should produce colorful, stunted koi not larger
> than 6" (15 cm).. They seem never to grow larger."
This sounds dreadfully cruel! Like foot binding and girdles and
high heeled shoes! Like starvation diets and really bad hair cuts.
> I am definitely NOT taking this advice with my new fish. I feed them
> every hour, about one pellet each. I've figured out that they get the
> same amount of food they'd get if I fed them three times a day for 5
> minutes at a time, they just get it spread out more evenly. And I get
> to spend more frequent time admiring them.
Sounds like it's working okay!
Sharon Bolton
Kellie Snider <Kel...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> "If you want to stunt the growth and to have dwarf koi, just put them
>> into an aquarium when they are very small and feed them very limited
>> amounts of flake food. Don't use foods which have more than 35%
>> protein. Feed them as much as they will eat in one minute -- but only
>> twice a week. This should produce colorful, stunted koi not larger
>> than 6" (15 cm).. They seem never to grow larger."
>This sounds dreadfully cruel! Like foot binding and girdles and
>high heeled shoes! Like starvation diets and really bad hair cuts.
I agree and I am not recommending the procedure. I only posted this
because at least one person was arguing that I couldn't possibly have
stunted "koi", I must have actually had goldfish, or that the koi must
have come from small parents. Since he wouldn't believe me, I figured
I'd better quote some expert to back up my experience.
>> I am definitely NOT taking this advice with my new fish. I feed them
>> every hour, about one pellet each. I've figured out that they get the
>> same amount of food they'd get if I fed them three times a day for 5
>> minutes at a time, they just get it spread out more evenly. And I get
>> to spend more frequent time admiring them.
>Sounds like it's working okay!
>Kellie
>My Karma ran over my Dogma.
>It was a Catastrophe.
The young ones are definitely growing.
Sharon in Phoenix
Jeff K
Sharon Bolton wrote:
>
> I am using a 2'x2'x6' horse trough in my home to house my koi. I am
> conservative estimate but better than over-estimating. There are 5
> koi in this tank which add up to about 25" of fish. Three are 2-3
> usually do a water change of 60-75 gallons.)
50% water changes are recommended if a problem exists, but 10% to 20% weekly is good
as a water "freshener". (Don't forget the chlorine, chloramine, heavy metal
neutralizer)
If I were you I would figure the capacity fairly accurately. If you need to medicate,
and overdose can kill, and underdose can let the problem kill. By the way, you didn't
mention salt. A 1.25 to 2.5 part per thousand {.125%-.25%) concentration of
NON-Iodized salt is recommended. I use crystal (not pelletized) water softener salt.
It's cheap and pure with no additives.
> I am running a Supreme Pondmaster 1500 garden pond filter system in
> this pond with the fountain set for a mushroom. I have added
> additional media for bio-filtering in the bottom of the filter and
> regularly add Stress-Zyme to promote the filtration, since the tank is
> only about a month old.
I wasn't worried until I realized the tank was new. That's a lot of fish for a new
tank. Keep a very close watch on pH, Ammonia, and Nitrite. Your filter needs about 6
to 8 weeks (more at cooler temperatures) to get started.
There has been no bloom or cloudiness. I
> also net out all solid wastes from the bottom of the tank every day or
> so. At the moment the water reading for ammonia is .5-1 PPM, but I
> have used Ammo-Lock and am filtering with ammonia-removing carbon to
> eliminate it.
There is a type of Ammonia test kit that will test the ammonia not locked up by the
Ammo Lock. If you're interested, I'll look it up for you. I don't remember the name.
>
> Nitrites read 0 and PH is about 8.2-8.6. Water temp is 77 degrees.
Your pH seems high, but not outrageous.
>
> The fish are showing no signs of stress. There are no live plants in
> the tank; I'm using plastic plants as spawning mops. I'm not
> attempting to raise the babies, except for one spawn's worth which are
> outside.
Why do you use spawning mops if you don't want them to spawn?
>
> I alternate feeding Hikari Gold and Pond Care Summer Staple food.
> Since my family (including the dogs and cats) get such a kick out of
> the fish, I feed them every hour or so, but only one or two pellets
> per fish each time.
>
> Does anyone have any advice for me in this situation? Am I over or
> under feeding?
I don't know how big the pellets are. The fish should eat about 2-5% of their body
weight per day.
>Can the color of the 3 older Kohakus (Bertha, George
> and Heidi) be improved from their orange goldfish color to red? Will
> the Tancho mark in the young diamond scale Kohaku actually improve
> from it's rather transparent color to the deeper red marks it has
> elsewhere? And can someone explain to me what I've got in little
> Butter -- a metallic fish of almost Post-It note yellow of whom I am
> particularly fond? At 4", is the color established?
I'm not very good at predicting color change. There have been several articles in
KoiUSA. Changing to a better food this year, I've seen a drastic change in my fish.
Orange has changed to red, etc.
>
> How long before the outdoor fry are identifiable as koi?
It depends on how good you are. I recently tried to describe the difference between
Koi and Comet fry to a friend. I easily tell the difference, but I have a tough time
describing it. Of course, the barbels are a dead giveaway, but tough to see when their
so young. The Koi seem to have generally broader, more "square" heads to me. I'd swear
their swimming styles are different, too. Sorry, that's the best I can do.
>
> And is the _Tetra Book of Koi_ or _The Professional's Book of Koi_ a
> better book for a beginner? I have just subscribed to KOI USA, but
> not received it yet.
Sorry, I don't know those books, but I do recommend KoiUSA and the Magazine of the Mid
Atlantic Koi Club. The MAKC also has a book, a collection of past magazine articles.
It's great. Finally, Tetra's Manual of Fish Health is very good. I've used it as a
reference for a few years, but sat and read it recently. I learned a lot.
>
> Any and all information is welcome!
> Good luck.
Bill Chan
In article <321216...@aea10.k12.ia.us>, GBi...@aea10.k12.ia.us (Greg
Bickal) writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <321216...@aea10.k12.ia.us>
> References: <4usuog$22...@news.goodnet.com>
> Posted: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 13:09:28 -0500
>
> Org. : Grant Wood AEA
>
> Sharon Bolton wrote:
> >
> > rz...@ix.netcom.com (rz...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> >
> > >>Yep, they're koi alright. In fact, Alexrod confirms that he also
> > >>dwarved some koi. He doesn't mention whether they spawned or not.
> >
> > >Interesting. Must be from a cross breeding the fish with a smaller
> > >variety of fish.
> >
> > >Roger
> >
> > This is from _Koi Varieties_ by Axelrod, chapter 7, "Long-finned &
> > Pygmy Koi", pg 71.
> >
> > Summary: His fry were from a pair of long fin koi from Singapore,
> > about 25". He used them for a feeding experiment, comparing German
> > foods to Japanese foods. The Japanese food put 3xs the growth on the
> > fish. He decided to stop the experiment and put all the fish back
> > together and feed them the Japanese food. Couldn't catch a dozen or
> > so, which remained in the separate pond -- and then proceded not to
> > grow.
> >
> > into an aquarium when they are very small and feed them very limited
> > amounts of flake food. Don't use foods which have more than 35%
> > protein. Feed them as much as they will eat in one minute -- but only
> > twice a week. This should produce colorful, stunted koi not larger
> > than 6" (15 cm).. They seem never to grow larger."
> >
> > every hour, about one pellet each. I've figured out that they get the
> > same amount of food they'd get if I fed them three times a day for 5
> > minutes at a time, they just get it spread out more evenly. And I get
> > to spend more frequent time admiring them.
> >
>
> Could the same be true in raising Comets ? I had a Comet that only got 4
> inches long and stopped growing after that. No growth for over 2 years.
> year.
> than my friend's fish, and I always wondered if its how I feed them or
> the
> "A watched pot never boils syndrome".
It is a known fact fish will only grow to its tank size.
Kellie Snider
> The young ones are definitely growing.
>
> Sharon in Phoenix
I'm glad everything is going well! Good luck to you!
--
rz...@ix.netcom.com
Bil...@mindlink.bc.ca (Bill Chan) wrote:
>> I only fed my fish twice a day. I have noticed that my fish grow slower
>> than my friend's fish, and I always wondered if its how I feed them or
>> the
>> "A watched pot never boils syndrome".
>It is a known fact fish will only grow to its tank size.
For goldfish not for carp. The Koi is a member of the carp family and
will out grow it's environment. They might not grow longer but they
will get fatter. The fattness in a Koi is just as bad as a person
being overweight. It adds stress to all other body functions. Thus
the Koi will not live as long if they would have a larger environment.
Roger