bog filter
John Rutz
drum filter system to the web site
click on bog and filter pics
--
Carolann and John Rutz
Email jo...@fuerjefe.com
See my pond at:
http://www.fuerjefe.com
rec.ponds Frequently Asked Questions
http://www.geocities.com/justinm090/faq.html
John Rutz
> I added some new pics of the bog and of the first stage of the 55 gal
> drum filter system to the web site click on bog and filter pics
oops its on the first page about half way down
Nedra
done. The bog is fantastic. Also, I really like the TT.
Did you build it? Mind telling me how you did it?
Nedra
www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
"John Rutz" <fuer...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3D62F03C...@nospam.com...
John Rutz
>Hi John, My Goodness! What a lot of work you have
>done. The bog is fantastic. Also, I really like the TT.
>Did you build it? Mind telling me how you did it?
>
>Nedra
>www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
>
>"John Rutz" <fuer...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:3D62F03C...@nospam.com...
>
we bought three bags of lava rock and a hi temp hot glue gun and
LOTs of glue sticks took a round plastic lid the right diameter, cut
a one inch hole in the center for the pvc pipe
laid the rocks in a circle around the outside diameter of the lid- and
glued them together till we had a circle of rock about 4 --5 in wide,
then started up, glueing as we went,, the rocks at the top are maybe
an inch to an inch and a half wide sorta like this / \ when done it
looks kinda like a rock barrel. ( we just used glue where the rock
touched another rock )
We found it was easyer and faster if you used the largest rocks first
and the smaller ones as you go up Once we had the rock barrel
completed we put the pipe in place, the upflow pipe is cut to just
clear the top of the barrel by about a quarter in or so.
we then put the barrel in the pond , ours sits on three clay bricks, u
can use chimny tile if you go bigger than we did, hooked up the pump
and then filled it with more rock ( just poured in not glued ) took
a fwe days of messing with the top layer of rocks to get the water
patern the way it looked and spread over/through the rocks best
>> it took us a week to put it together but if you just sat and did it
>> it would take about 4 hours or so to do ours is 18 in dia and 24 in
>> high It realy should be bigger for our pond but we didn t find
>> that out till months after we built it, I think that the size we
>> built is good for up to a 1000 to 1500 gal pond one thing to keep
>> in mind it doesnt matter what color rock you use as it gets covered
>> by algae in a couple weeks also it doesnt matter if you build it
>> round or square or somthing else it still works its one filter you
>> dont have to clean as its pretty much just a bacteria colony
Nedra
detail ! I'll have to wait until the weather cools down
before I can go outside :( then I'll make my own TT.
Thanks again!
Nedra
--
www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
"John Rutz" <fuer...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3D63A60C...@nospam.com...
John Rutz
>Thanks for the instructions, John. Wow - what
>detail ! I'll have to wait until the weather cools down
>before I can go outside :( then I'll make my own TT.
>
>Thanks again!
>
>Nedra
>--
>www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
>"John Rutz" <fuer...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:3D63A60C...@nospam.com...
>
>>Nedra wrote:
>>
>>>> we built it nights on the coffee table in the living room during
>>>> comercials :-)
Nedra
Nedra
www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
"John Rutz" <fuer...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3D63C65D...@nospam.com...
Bonnie Espenshade
>
> Thanks for the instructions, John. Wow - what
> detail ! I'll have to wait until the weather cools down
> before I can go outside :( then I'll make my own TT.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Nedra
> --
> www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
> "John Rutz" <fuer...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:3D63A60C...@nospam.com...
> > Nedra wrote:
> >
> > >Hi John, My Goodness! What a lot of work you have
> > >done. The bog is fantastic. Also, I really like the TT.
> > >Did you build it? Mind telling me how you did it?
> > >
> > >Nedra
> > >www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
Your directions were really clear. I think I'll try one
also. Where did
you get the lava rock?
--
Bonnie
NJ
http://hpphoto.com/home/ViewMyAlbum.asp?coll_id=876614
John Rutz
Bonnie wally world would you believe
Bonnie Espenshade
> >Your directions were really clear. I think I'll try one
> >also. Where did
> >
> >you get the lava rock?
> >
> >
> Bonnie wally world would you believe
>
> --
> Carolann and John Rutz
Thanks, I'll pick some up tomorrow.
Jerrispond
>drum filter system to the web site
> click on bog and filter pics
John....are those iris in the bog? you may want to plant them directly into
the milk crates in lava rock. That is how I have done my whole veggie filter
ponds. It works great, and they grow like crazy. I now have hundreds of
iris. They are 90% of my filter plants. Being in the crates the roots get
right into the water, but they are a little contained. The lava rock also
helps filter. Every few years just pick up the whole box to divide and change
out the rock. This is my only filter for the ponds, and it works great.......
Jerri
http://www.fringeweb.com/Ponds/JerrisPond
Lee Brouillet
miserable in the pond. Then let it dry before you try to glue it (glue
doesn't stick to wet rock too well!). Have fun!
Lee
"Bonnie Espenshade" <mae...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3D64E60C...@earthlink.net...
Bonnie Espenshade
>
> Make sure you wash it off first! It always has a lot of dust that would be
> miserable in the pond. Then let it dry before you try to glue it (glue
> doesn't stick to wet rock too well!). Have fun!
>
> Lee
I looks like I'll have to wait until next year to build a
TT. No one in the
area has lava rock (end of season). I was planning on
rinsing it after I had
it built, but thanks for the reminder.
JJ
>John....are those iris in the bog? you may want to plant them directly into
>the milk crates in lava rock. That is how I have done my whole veggie filter
>ponds. It works great, and they grow like crazy. I now have hundreds of
>iris. They are 90% of my filter plants. Being in the crates the roots get
>right into the water, but they are a little contained. The lava rock also
>helps filter. Every few years just pick up the whole box to divide and change
>out the rock. This is my only filter for the ponds, and it works great.......
> Jerri http://www.fringeweb.com/Ponds/JerrisPond
Hi Jerri,
Do you use some kind of fabic or mesh to line the milk crates or is
the lava rock "chunky" enough that you just pour it into the milk
crate.
Thanks
Jay
John Rutz
sorta kinda ahead on that they are in 7" hi open weave pans ( mini
laundry baskets ) with river rock I had to put the iris and cattails
in shalow pans with rivr rock to keep the wind from blowing em over
worked so well I ended up puting all the plants into em
APV...@webtv.net
look like Metal cans. As those cans rust won't the Metal discolor your
water?. I just wonder if as the cans leach out won't that contaminate
the water and become Toxic to the Fish?. I think in time it may cause a
PH swing. My other thought is you have plastic liners in the cans.
Regards AL
Lee Brouillet
landscaping needs and bar-b-que grills! Or have I been living in the South
too long?
Lee
"Bonnie Espenshade" <mae...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3D65C3DE...@earthlink.net...
Bonnie Espenshade
>
> WOW! No lava rock? I didn't think that *ever* went out of season, between
> landscaping needs and bar-b-que grills! Or have I been living in the South
> too long?
>
> Lee
I mentioned this to my husband and he said, "I bet Home
Depot has it." Sure
nuff, I went there this morning and they had tons of it. I
picked up several
bags and two lids. This afternoon I'll start gluing!
I do barbeque in the winter on my smoker grill with real
charcoal not on a gas
grill. I've not noticed it used for landscaping locally.
John Rutz
Bonnie Espenshade wrote:
>Lee Brouillet wrote:
>
>>WOW! No lava rock? I didn't think that *ever* went out of season, between
>>landscaping needs and bar-b-que grills! Or have I been living in the South
>>too long?
>>
>>Lee
>>
>
>
>I mentioned this to my husband and he said, "I bet Home
>Depot has it." Sure
>nuff, I went there this morning and they had tons of it. I
>picked up several
>bags and two lids. This afternoon I'll start gluing!
>I do barbeque in the winter on my smoker grill with real
>charcoal not on a gas
>grill. I've not noticed it used for landscaping locally.
>
you still have a home depot?? ours closed due to bankruptcy about a
year ago we were told they all closed nationwide,
I miss them as they carried some stuff that none of the other home
centers seem to even know what is
--
Carolann and John Rutz
Email jo...@fuerjefe.com
Lee Brouillet
interest they charge <G>! I know of at least 7 within (relatively) easy
driving distance here, and 4 of them are new!
Lee
"John Rutz" <fuer...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3D665E71...@nospam.com...
John Rutz
>They can't go bankrupt John, not with my credit line and the amount of
>interest they charge <G>! I know of at least 7 within (relatively) easy
>driving distance here, and 4 of them are new!
>
>Lee
>
>"John Rutz" <fuer...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:3D665E71...@nospam.com...
>
>>ah my ever sharp mind in action :-) I bought some spruce tree's at Home depot yesterday but when I read your message I thought Home Base :-[
Stacy Millions
> you still have a home depot?? ours closed due to bankruptcy about a
> year ago we were told they all closed nationwide,
They are still going strong here in Canada. Actually, I think the amount
of money my wife and I spend there should keep them afloat :-)
-stacy
--
If they keep lowering education standards and raising the price of
gasoline, there are going to be a lot of stupid people walking around.
Stacy Millions st...@millions.ca
Millions Consulting Limited
Bonnie Espenshade
> >
> you still have a home depot?? ours closed due to bankruptcy about a
> year ago we were told they all closed nationwide,
> I miss them as they carried some stuff that none of the other home
> centers seem to even know what is
>
> --
> Carolann and John Rutz
Yes, we have Home Depot and a Lowe's is moving in directly
across the
street! Most likely your's wasn't showing enough profit.
I've been gluing for 3 hrs straight. You were correct in
saying
a lot of glue. Be honest, how many times did you burn
yourself?
I've got a very sore finger tip and trying to type with only
one hand
while the other is on an ice cube is a neat trick. I built
one mini
tower and have a larger one under construction. The mini
tower will
be used for my indoor pond.
John Rutz
Bonnie Espenshade wrote:
>John Rutz wrote:
>
>
>I've been gluing for 3 hrs straight. You were correct in
>saying
>a lot of glue. Be honest, how many times did you burn
>yourself?
>I've got a very sore finger tip and trying to type with only
>one hand
>while the other is on an ice cube is a neat trick. I built
>one mini
>tower and have a larger one under construction. The mini
>tower will
>be used for my indoor pond.
>
lets see 1 cu ft lava rock equals 1000 rocks divided by 5 fingers sum equals 750 x 4 hands uhhh plenty :-) --ave twice per rock
didnt try typing with an Ice cube on my finger tho
~ jan
About the yellow water.
Question: My pond is about 3 months old. The water is clear but has a
yellowish tint that I would like to get rid of. I have koi and water
plants in the pond. All my water tests are fine except the water seems to
be 'hard' and the pH is about 8.5 in the afternoon. What could be causing
the yellowish tint and what product do you have to correct it?
ANSWER: There are at least three places “yellowing” can come from and they
are NEVER good for fish.
If Ammonia accumulates sufficiently, it can cause a yellow cast to the
water. Of course, this is easily tested and not the most common cause of
water-yellowing.
Leaves which fall into the pond will decay and cause yellowing. This is the
release of tannins which are astringent for fish. They are NOT terminal,
or deadly, but they represent deterioration of water quality which
especially makes fish more vulnerable to disease organisms.
The most common cause of yellowish casting of the water is plants and their
pots, or bog gardens which share water with the main pond. This is the most
common and the worst cause of yellowing in the water. Basically it’s a
“tea” being made with your pondw ater percolating in and around the dirty
root ball of the plants. Soil tea. It’s awful.
Under NO circumstances should bog gardens have waterways which communicate
with the main pond. In those bog gardens, there are numerous decay
processes which liberate noxious gases, carbon dioxide, and which consume
dissolved oxygen. Bogs also contribute unnecessarily to the elevation of
dissolved organics background pollution. In other words bogs are bad.
Potted plants can leach tannins and other amber colored contaminants from
their soil into the pond. These are almost as hazardous as bog effluents.
Folks are highly recommended to repot their plants in large sized aggregate
gravel, and replant the plants every year to minimize the development of
anaerobic decay conditions in the pots.
NEVER allow your water to become or remain yellow.
Water testing can rule out Ammonia.
If Tannins are incriminated, remove all leaf litter and take your bog
gardens off line to enjoy their own tannin stained water, sagging dissolved
oxygen and Hydrogen sulfide and leaving the pond to have it’s own clear
clean well oxygenated water.
Finally, a major water change will remove most of the yellow color.
If major water changes are not feasible, then you can use carbon to control
the yellow color. Carbon is a black aggregate media which is made from
superheating organic materials like coconut shell and wood as if in a kiln,
except in the absence of oxygen. The product is black and light in weight.
After rinsing, the carbon can be put in a nylon mesh bag and placed
directly in the water flow. It is NOT as effective to put the carbon in
your waterfall because even though the water is moving rapidly, it’s not
moving THROUGH the carbon bag. This takes some engineering. If you can get
ALL your water through a pump in three hours, and that pump goes through a
five gallon bucket half-full of carbon in mesh bags without channeling or
bypass, you will see gin-clear water in two days. The idea is that ALL the
water is PUSHED THROUGH the carbon. Not just over it.
Carbon expires rapidly, in direct proportion to the organics in the system.
If the system has a lot of tannins the carbon will expire on the order of
days. After replacement, with cleaner water the next bags of carbon will
last longer.
Unsure if the carbon still works? Simply take some and put it in a glass of
water. Add a couple drops of Methylene Blue. Check it again in the morning.
If the MB is gone, the carbon still has some “life” in it.
Another common question:
Red worms in the filter.
Answer: Normal. They are bloodworms or tubifex which can carry diseases for
Trout but NOT for Koi. The reason they only show up in the filter is
because they'd be eaten on sight by the fish in the main pond. They're
harmless unless you apply something which kills a LOT of these worms all at
once, in which case decay processes could cause drops in dissolved oxygen.
Another common question:
How about that new, "Algae Fix" stuff?
Well, Aquarium Products came out with "Algae Fix" which kills all single
celled algae while SPARING all multicellular plant life forms.
Good thing: Kills green water great and doesn't hurt plants.
Not so good thing: Kills carpet and string algae too. Which means that if
you DON'T have some plants to keep your nitrates under control, you won't
have *ANY* nitrate control.
See, there needs to be some form of plant to reduce nitrates and phosphates
in the system. So it's kind of a "be careful what you wish for" because
while ALL the algae vanishes, educated hobbyists will deploy floating
plants for nitrate control and uneducated hobbyists won't.
Doc Johnson
koivet.com
See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website
Bonnie Espenshade
I guess I'm really lucky only one very red blistered
fingertip! Juice from the aloe plant
has helped quite a lot.
APV...@webtv.net
Some hot glues give way after a period of time. AL
John Rutz
~ jan wrote:
>From the Koi Vet E-mail list, includes info on "bogs":
>
>About the yellow water.
>
>
>The most common cause of yellowish casting of the water is plants and their
>pots, or bog gardens which share water with the main pond. This is the most
>common and the worst cause of yellowing in the water. Basically it's a
>"tea" being made with your pondw ater percolating in and around the dirty
>root ball of the plants. Soil tea. It's awful.
>
>Under NO circumstances should bog gardens have waterways which communicate
>with the main pond. In those bog gardens, there are numerous decay
>processes which liberate noxious gases, carbon dioxide, and which consume
>dissolved oxygen. Bogs also contribute unnecessarily to the elevation of
>dissolved organics background pollution. In other words bogs are bad.
>
>
>
>See my ponds and filter design:
>http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
>
> ~Keep 'em Wet!~
> Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
> To e-mail see website
>
Ok Jan
koivet has me confused on this one my bog is definitly connected to my
Koi pond as it acts as a veggie filter for the pond I run right now just
under 3500 gph through it post the bio filter.
when I get my other main pump back it will return to 4800 gph
it seems to be keeping the amonia nitrite nitrate under control as I
have very litle algae
can you point me to an explanation
John Rutz
Bonnie Espenshade wrote:
>John Rutz wrote:
>
>>Bonnie Espenshade wrote:
>>
>>>John Rutz wrote:
>>>
>
>
>I guess I'm really lucky only one very red blistered
>fingertip! Juice from the aloe plant
>has helped quite a lot.
>
and I bet yu didnt glue a rock to your finger did ya ??
--
Bonnie Espenshade
>
> I hate to be a Party Pooper but Silacone is the glue i would choose.
> Some hot glues give way after a period of time. AL
I may add silicone to the inside joints then as a
reinforcement. I'm
not about to start over!
Bonnie Espenshade
>
> Bonnie Espenshade wrote:
>
> >John Rutz wrote:
> >
> >>Bonnie Espenshade wrote:
> >>
> >>>John Rutz wrote:
>
> and I bet yu didnt glue a rock to your finger did ya ??
>
> --
> Carolann and John Rutz
No, but I'm not finished yet!
Bonnie Espenshade
>
> ~ jan wrote:
>
> >From the Koi Vet E-mail list, includes info on "bogs":
> >
> >About the yellow water.
> >
> >
> >The most common cause of yellowish casting of the water is plants and their
> >pots, or bog gardens which share water with the main pond. This is the most
> >common and the worst cause of yellowing in the water. Basically it's a
> >"tea" being made with your pondw ater percolating in and around the dirty
> >root ball of the plants. Soil tea. It's awful.
> >
> >Under NO circumstances should bog gardens have waterways which communicate
> >with the main pond. In those bog gardens, there are numerous decay
> >processes which liberate noxious gases, carbon dioxide, and which consume
> >dissolved oxygen. Bogs also contribute unnecessarily to the elevation of
> >dissolved organics background pollution. In other words bogs are bad.
> >
>
> >
> >
> >See my ponds and filter design:
> >http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
> >
> > ~Keep 'em Wet!~
> > Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
> > To e-mail see website
> >
RichToyBox
up through the gravel? If it runs across the top, then there is a lot of
space for anaerobic bacteria that produce the hydrogen sulfide that is toxic
to the fish, and does not provide the necessary aerobic bacteria a place to
do their work. If it is an up through the gravel, then the gravel is like
any other media. When I started ponding, my local pond supply house
(Ashland Berry Farm), promoted what they called bog filters. These were up
flow gravel filters with a media pad between the pipe and the gravel to keep
the chunks out of the gravel. Today they call this a living filter.
Whatever you call it, it is one great place to grow plants due to the high
level of nitrates produced by the bacteria. Doc Johnson visited Ashland
Berry Farm for Koi Kamp a couple of weeks ago and had about 9 hours of
lecture. They questioned him about this and since it was up flow, he said
it was not what he referred to as a bog. Bog is an anaerobic soil or gravel
filled place for plants, that may or may not have water run across the
surface, or just allow water to freely flow back and forth from the pond. I
was one of the speakers at Koi Kamp, and my talk was on plants for the water
garden.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
"John Rutz" <fuer...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3D66FF75...@nospam.com...
John Rutz
RichToyBox wrote:
>Does your water run across the top of the gravel, or soil, or does it flow
>up through the gravel?
>was one of the speakers at Koi Kamp, and my talk was on plants for the water
>garden.
>--
>RichToyBox
>http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
>
>
>"John Rutz" <fuer...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>
then I dont know if my bog actualy qualifies as a bog then, as the
plants are in baskets with river rock -- guess its just a shallow pond
with plants
John Rutz
Bonnie Espenshade wrote:
>APV...@webtv.net wrote:
>
>>I hate to be a Party Pooper but Silacone is the glue i would choose.
>>Some hot glues give way after a period of time. AL
>>
>
>I may add silicone to the inside joints then as a
>reinforcement. I'm
>not about to start over!
>
Bonnie
I forgot this
the person I got directions from on how to build the TT said if you
want to reinforce it a bit, to use cement glue, It comes in tubes
like the silicon. I bought some at Home Depot in the concrete area
but didnt use it
he said to squirt a small amount between the rocks on the outside of the
TT being sure to leave gaps for the water to flow through from what
he said it doesnt have lime in it so it wont affect PH
--
APV...@webtv.net
root bound the plants in a seperate area. Then wash off al loose soil
and then add it to the pond. A water garden is fine for pots and soil.
Hydrophonics is safer if you have expensive live stock. I use activeated
carbon as a clarifier and a diatom to keep the water crystal clear. I
also use a vortex star filter as a 2nd filter 24/7. I buy my carbon at
Walmart, it's not top of the line but it works fine. Regards AL
dr-...@wi.rr.xx.com
test kit is dumped in. that is why "gin clear" water is so scary.. it could mean
nothing is growing in there cause the ammonia is so high.
the rivers and lakes of the US are full of tannins and the fish do just fine. the
problem with leaves in the pond is when they rot they foul the water with anaerobic
fermentation gasses and organics. some people think some oak leaves in the pond
makes the water a bit acidic which is good for over wintering.. not in my pond full
of calcium rich water of course.
of course bog or veggies filters should be used to clean water before sending it back
to the pond. the beauty is that pieces of the plants are not at the bottom of the
pond rotting .. instead the water is moving over the plants/thru the roots and they
are removing not only ammonia and breakdown products but also toxins.
water moves over a bog surface... it doesnt and shouldnt stir up the muck or it will
make the water thick with silt.
water moves thru a veggie filter .. that is the plants are bare root in the water
stream. however, a good alternative is to wrap the roots in polyester batting and
then stuff that into a mesh pot so the nutrient rich water can move thru the
material. frankly, there are so many plants do well rooted in water I wouldnt
bother.
I got no ammonia, no nitrites, no nitrates ... nothing on the bottom of the pond
cause it is netted and my water is clear to the bottom and still yellowish and my koi
are doing GREAT. And my lilies, planted in pots with no holes, in good loam covered
with gravel are doing GREAT. Ingrid
~ jan <JJs...@noe-mail.com> wrote:
>ANSWER: There are at least three places “yellowing” can come from and they
>are NEVER good for fish.
>If Ammonia accumulates sufficiently, it can cause a yellow cast to the
>water.
dr-...@wi.rr.xx.com
dr-...@wi.rr.xx.com
products released into the water from the top layer. any gases that might bubble up
from the dirt to the top is neutralized by the oxygen in the water flowing over the
surface. Ingrid