Barley and Tea Colored Water

[Jim]

I finally got around to replacing the lava rock in my biofalls with
another media, Savio Springflo. Thanks for the person who suggested
it.
(Springflo - http://store.yahoo.com/watergarden/savsprinbiof.html).

I cleaned my biofalls and replaced a 2 pound bale of barley during
this process. The old barley was 3 months old. I found the old bale
to almost gone. Water temps have been in the mid 80s during this
period. Here's a pic of the old and new bale.
(pic - http://community.webshots.com/photo/44722068/49366157xfvrZH)

Before placing the new bale in my biofalls, I soaked it in treated
water (50 gallon tub). After 30 minutes, I noticed the water was the
color of tea. My pond is now the same color. This reminds me of the
blue dye used to combat algae. I'm sure the tea-color prevents some
light from penetrating the water. This and the fact my courtyard pond
only receives 5 hours of full sun must be part of the reason I have
not had the algae problems others experience.

I do know the barley slowly releases hydrogen peroxide into the pond,
but has anyone noticed the presence of tea-colored water after its
use? This does support the fact the breakdown of organics can cause
water to become this color. Although decomposition of organic
material can foul the water, the presence of tea-colored water does
not indicate poor water quality.

Just an observation. Guess I'm in a rambling mood this morning....

Jim
Zone 8a - Dallas, Texas
Pond, Veggie Filter, Pond Maintenance & Dallas Pond Tour Pics:
http://community.webshots.com/user/dallas75248

[APV...@webtv.net]

Hi Jim i have to ask if you don't have an Algae problem what is the
Barley for?. Also a few pounds of activated Carbon will get the Tea out.
One way to check color is to fill a glass and sit it on a white piece of
paper sometimes tea color is really yellow tinge and that can be
something else. Seeing how you maintain your pond it is most likely Tea
from the barley straw. Im not sure what you meant buy treated water?. Oh
if u have any Diatom Carb that will Polish the Water up real quick.
Regards AL

[APV...@webtv.net]

There is an easy way to clean Lava Rock. If it is in a Basket just rinse
with a force spray. Then Fire up the BQ. set it to High put the Lava
Rock on the grill and cook away. They come out nice and clean and ready
to reuse. They are a great Bio Material. The trick is always keep one
Basket in the filter Active. Well time for me to put on my Helmet and
take a ride in my Adjustable Bed
Good Nght :-)AL

[Jim]

>if you don't have an Algae problem what is the
>Barley for?

Why do you use a UV? :)

I use Barley as a preventative measure, not as a cure for an existing
problem.

[Lee Brouillet]

Oooooh! Never thought of cooking it to remove the extra stuff! With another
good rinsing, it would be ready to go again! (Note to Self: Self - file away
for future reference!)

Lee

<APV...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:23809-3D7...@storefull-2151.public.lawson.webtv.net...

[John Rutz]

Lee Brouillet wrote:

> hmmm well sounds good but if you just rinse it well some of the bio
> bugs stay on the rock so the colony repopulates fairly quickly,, if
> you sterilize the rocks then how long does it take for the filter to
> re establish itself, are you back to square one and have to wait 4-6
> weeks??

>--
>John Rutz
>
>Email fuer...@lobo.net
>
>See my pond at:
>http://www.fuerjefe.com
>
>rec.ponds Frequently Asked Questions
> http://www.geocities.com/justinm090/faq.html
>
>
>
>

[Jerrispond]

>
>>>There is an easy way to clean Lava Rock. If it is in a Basket just rinse
>>>with a force spray. Then Fire up the BQ. set it to High put the Lava
>>>Rock on the grill and cook away. They come out nice and clean and

ROFL...my husband would REALLY think I had lost my mind for sure if he saw
that. Whats for dinner....lava rock Jerri

http://www.fringeweb.com/Ponds/JerrisPond

[APV...@webtv.net]

To tell you the Truth Jim i was talked into it. I also checked some
sights like Doc Johnson and a lot of other people were happy with the
Results. Not being a Plant person and i don't like water Lilies in my
fish pond i opted for the lite. There are a lot more reasons. To be
honest i Love it my water is just the way i like it Gin Clear and know
shade needed so i see my Fish all the time. Before i would need to put a
shade net to keep the water almost clear. Now it looks like my Aquarium
water. Im not an easy person to Convince but it was the best 80 dollars
i ever spent. If i was asked what if it was 3or4 Hundered Dollars my
Answer would still be the same. The Money isn't the issue The Results
is...Regards AL.

[APV...@webtv.net]

Hi John
If the filter is set up correctly there will always be another batch of
rock working. Plus 25 to 30 % of your Bio is in the pipes and on all
other substrates in the Pond. When i post something it is with what i
have tried and tested to work. Lava Rock is really one of the best
filter media around. Plus a good filter system would always have other
media or another filter system eg. to buffer water and revitalize it
back to its Pristine Condition.Recently i took Polluted water recycled
and filterd it through a make shift filter system then added some gold
fish and they were up and eating and i still have them in the same
water.Keep in mind im not talking about just Lava Rock which is for Bio
Only. Regards AL

[APV...@webtv.net]

Hi Jerri
A few weeks of BQ Lava rocks served for Dinner and usually a Fur Coat or
a Diamond Ring Appears at the Dinner Table. LOL AL ;-)

[Jerrispond]

>. When i post something it is with what i
>have tried and tested to work. Lava Rock is really one of the best>filter
media around.

My only filters are veggies...they are all planted in milk crates in lava
rock....works great!! Jerri

http://www.fringeweb.com/Ponds/JerrisPond

[APV...@webtv.net]

by Ron James, Ph.D.
Reprinted from Koi USA
As there is a multitude of misinformation and misunderstanding regarding
the use of a UV system. It is the purpose of this two part article to
help clarify the value and functions of ultraviolet light for the
average Koi hobbyist.
UV light has two primary uses in fish culture:
controlling green water and
disinfecting the water supply.
The use of UV for disinfection is not new.
Since the 1950's UV disinfection facilities have been implemented
throughout the USA, as well as around the world, to disinfect a wide
range of water sources; from waste water to aquaculture (fish farming),
wherever a greater need to control waterborne pathogens exists. In some
instances, without the use of UV, newly introduced pathogens (from
infected fish) can create enormous problems which can cause the complete
shutdown of a facility, thus creating a great loss of fish. A fish farm
is virtually paralyzed and is forced to shut down until some means of
disinfection can be found.
What the Koi hobbyist or fish farmer requires is a dependable means of
controlling or eradicating the pathogens that are present. UV is a known
effective and practical means of attaining this goal. By implementing a
UV system, floating algae (green water) and the targeted pathogen can be
effectively eradicated or controlled without producing any harmful
effects. UV treated water has been proven to be completely safe for fish
and humans.
A UV system is only one part of a filter system. A biological filter is
a must in keeping Koi. Remember a single bacterium can produced a colony
in exces of 25 million within 24 hours.
Hence, a biological filter acts like a beehive by producing a swarm of
bacteria, which then build colonies scattered throughout the pond,
creating bad as well as good bacteria.
Consequently, by running pond water through a UV system prior to
reentering the pond, you greatly reduce the number of bad bacteria in
the pond.
While UV disinfection may be useful in preventing reinfection it is not
a substitute for antibiotics or other chemotherapeutic agents after
infectious or parasitic organisms have attached themselves to the host
fish. As UV radiation may affect these methods of treatment the UV
system should be turned off during treatment with either antibiotics
and/or chemo-therapy.
Unfortunately, most data available from manufacturers is based on
research relating either to drinking water or waste water with
comparatively few experimental studies done with salt water. Therefore
the data derived is based on studies using more powerful equipment.
Consequently most WV systems manufactured should only be used as
clarifiers to control low strains of algae. All the disinfection
research carried out for this article has been done so in fish culture.
As the two purposes of using UV radiation (sterilizing and clarifying)
are important the industry is plagued by much misinformation,
particularly regarding disease prevention and treatment. With Koi
enthusiasts, the fear of killing good bacteria is a major concern.
Studies have shown, without the use of UV treatment, bacteria will
colonize in different areas of a pond and then compete to take it over.
There are some people who believe UV treatment will make the water too
sterile for any micro-organisms to survive. However, our studies have
shown, given the proper UV system, UV treated water provides an
excellent well-balanced environment for Koi. Depending on several
factors, e.g., fish load, filter system, etc., not all ponds without UV
treatment will suffer with bacteria overpopulation. However, the
elimination of green water is highly improbable. Many proponents of UV
disinfection sometimes overlook the additional benefits relating to
ornamental fish; those being that cleaner water reduces the stress on
the fish by not having to fight off diseases, thus enhancing its immune
system and leading to faster growth and more brilliant colors. It was
also noted in some studies that several ponds not using UV had clear
water. These ponds were thought be in excellent condition. However, upon
testing the water, aeromonas were found. This again proves that clear
water is not necessarily clean water.
Design Importance: The types of UV lamps and how they work.
Lamps that produce the greatest amounts of UV radiation contain mercury
vapor. There are also high and low pressure lamps. The low pressure hot
cathode lamp (TS) is the size of a fluorescent and is used most often in
clarifiers as it is less expensive.The hot cathode germicidal lamp is
similar in its operation to the standard fluorescent lamp as it operates
from a ballast and requires a device such as a glow switch starter to
preheat the electrodes located at the ends of the lamp. As the life of
the electrodes is shortened by frequent starts, continual use (24 hours
a day) is recommended. Hot cathode lamps are made from soft quartz, the
major drawback of which is that solarization and the blackening of the
lamp, decreases the UV output.
The slimline UV lamp is an instant-start lamp available in low, high
anti very high intensity. This lamp can also be produced in soft quartz
and is often misrepresented as hard quartz.
Because of their high initial ultraviolet emission and easy maintenance,
slimline lamps are well adapted for sterilization and other applications
that require high intensity. This lamp is designed to operate at
currents ranging from 120 to 420 milliamperes, depending upon the type
of ballast. Use of a higher milliampere ballast increases the lamp's UV
output. While the lamp may be energized with a lower milliampere
ballast, the lamp may then only be working at half or even less than
half of its published rating. Therefore it is very important that the
ballast is matched to the lamp. Remember it is not the visable light but
the invisable rays that disinfect.
When considering a UV system for disinfection, there are parameters to
be set, one of which is identification of the targeted pathogens in
order to set the proper dwell time. Each micro-organism has a resistance
to UV. The amount of energy required to destroy or disrupt the DNA of
the targeted organism is defined in reports on UV dosage. This is
commonly measured in microwatts per second of the ultraviolet energy
within 254 nanograms.
"Ron James makes a good UV. It's been the industry standard for years
and years. Really, they performed so well there wasn't a lot of
competition. Not many people had the expertise to even think that they
could make something better. And really, price for price, there's still
a competitive edge. But when Rick Kintner came out with the stainless
steel magnum UV-1 line, people have been flocking to it. A big draw is
that it's only one bulb to change at year's end. Competition is good."
Doc Johnson
Note From Doc Johnson
Do you like waiting for UV deliveries? Then you should buy your UV in
the winter time when demand is lower. I daresay, you could bargain a
slightly lower price by some businesses who always have cash flow
problems in January. My recommendation is the UV-1 for a lot of reasons.
If you're on a tight budget and can upgrade the next year, Aqua UV is a
reasonable stop gap." ~ Doc Johnson
Want a UV-1?
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[dr-...@wi.rr.xx.com]

UV definitely clumps algae allowing the filter to remove it.
UV for "water purification" is used and works only in limited circumstances.
Gotta look at how much power is needed in combination with a specific length of
exposure time to kill off pathogens. the bigger the pathogen, the more power and
longer exposure to UV is required to actually kill them. so bacteria are easy to
kill off while gyros are difficult. when the water is turbid, full of particulates,
killing drops off fast. so water to be UV'd needs to be very well filtered before it
moves across the UV.
In Milwaukee where 500k people were infected with cryptosporidia when
chlorination/chloramination did not do the job the city didnt buy UV, it installed
ozonators. We got an ozonator on our spa. the water is gin clear all the time. it
is very very cost effective. similar principle, the UV makes ozone which is pumped
into the water and reacts with bacteria, etc. to kill them. unfortunately, we
cannot use ozone on our ponds without getting an expensive de-ozonator cause ozone
will kill the fish.
with ponds there is the additional problem that most pathogens are ON THE FISH, in
fact the fish are carriers of most pathogens. the pathogens are spread by fish to
fish contact, in the poop that another fish may mouth or even eat, and it comes in on
bird poop and "on the winds". So none of these sources are going to be sterilized.
I dont think UV as "sterilizer" has any application to open ponds. It is better to
keep the immune system of the fish up and running and let the fish deal with
pathogens while preventing big incursions of pathogens into the pond, like keeping
the damn birds out and ALWAYS quarantining new fish and treating plants . .not to
mention keeping the water up to snuff and feeding good food. much more cost
effective.
Ingrid Buxton, Ph.D. microbiologist

[Andrew Burgess]

dr-...@wi.rr.xx.com wrote:

> unfortunately, we
> cannot use ozone on our ponds without getting an expensive de-ozonator cause ozone
> will kill the fish.

I seem to remember ozonators being sold for marine aquaria. Perhaps a low level
is OK?

[APV...@webtv.net]

It was just general info are we now throwing around titles?. Keep
reading Aquetico your learning a lot. LOL....AL PS to most of us this is
a hobby not Rocket Science. We are talking about Ponds not SPAS... I
Think??? who cares about ozone in a pond set up???. Three thousand
dollars for an ozone unit for a pond is a bit much. A good one that
is...Ozone is total Sterilization of a system it can even kill fish. UVs
that are used in public Aquria are large and used to keep Disease from
running rampant. Fish farms use them for the same reason. To keep
systems in check. Ok OK i Concede you win.....;-) Lets See i need a
title. PHD in Pond Scum LOL......Its all in fun.....

[Jim]

>I dont think UV as "sterilizer" has any application to open ponds. It is better to
>keep the immune system of the fish up and running and let the fish deal with
>pathogens while preventing big incursions of pathogens into the pond

Thanks for the mini-education on UV as it applies to the pond
environment. I'm glad I saved the $200 I would have spent on one.
The money saved will come in handy when I buy the $28.99 two-pound
barley bales I use to help prevent algae. :)

[Jim]

>PHD in Pond Scum

Wow... We're getting all sorts of experts in this newsgroup.

[APV...@webtv.net]

What ever works for you is fine. Money is know object so it doesn't
matter to me. I like Tea in my cup not in my Pond but to each his
own.;-). Regards AL PS When i read something that i consider interesting
i post it. What people use or do is no concern to me.....

[APV...@webtv.net]

Ozone will kill fish if not monitored Correctly. It is not good to use
on a Pond or Aquarium. It causes a sterile environment. Eventually the
fish loose some of there color and never look real good. Marine fish
also loose some of there color. Live coral rock die off in it. So does
Algae and plants. If fish are kept in it for long periods of time they
may die. There are exceptions to every rule. It is better used in water
with know life in it to kill Bacteria etc. HP AL A filter is not need ed
since it will do nothing. I have seen them used in Marine Tanks years
ago and the results were poor. A U.V. is much better suited for
Aquaculture applications.

[Springworks]

> My only filters are veggies...they are all planted in milk crates in lava
> rock....works great!! Jerri

Lava Rock is in itself a bio-mechanical media.......Great stuff.........

[Lee Brouillet]

Jim, I use the UV to prevent green water. I tried barley straw for string
algae, and it made a bigger mess of my pond when it disintegrated in 2
months rather than the "all season" it was hyped at - it took me *months* to
get rid of it. Now I use the potash, and it appears to work better than
anything else I've tried to date. I still have some, but not as much. I'm
rapidly finding out that some things work very well in some parts of the
country and are a total bust in other parts. Us'ns down here in the warmer
parts are up against an entirely different set of problems.

Lee

"Jim" <wra...@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:C2C5921279CE0F91.B6AEA0F0...@lp.airnews.net...

[APV...@webtv.net]

There was something that tells me 5 hours of Sunshine a day will produce
Algae. So i checked the Pond Maintenance photos. Sure enough the reason
my pond is Crystal Clear is because of the Diatom Filter. I have a small
pond that gets about 4 to 5 hours of morning Sun and it gets green. The
Diatom i saw in the Photo was all Green.;-) HP AL So 5 hours of Sun does
Produce Algae...

[dr-...@wi.rr.xx.com]

oh.. dont get me wrong.. it will prevent algae nicely. somebody gave me a UV and I
do like it .. especially in spring when I get a bloom until my veggie filter gets up
and booking. I mean dont expect it to actually sterilize the pond and prevent fish
diseases brought on by stress. Ingrid

[dr-...@wi.rr.xx.com]

only lift the leg when somebody else does first.. dont know where you got the idea
I was suggesting ozone for ponds.. I wasnt. UVs of hellatious size are used to clean
up the water in public aquaria, and even then they got fish dying all the time cause
they are mostly overstocked ... like a typical zoo with too many animals per
cage/venue.. whatever. Fish farms? really? well hell, Brett didnt show us where he
hides his big UV units on his koi ponds. Neither did Price. what kinda tour was
that? Ingrid

[Jim]

>5 hours of Sun does Produce Algae...

5 hours of sun here doesn't produce enough suspended algae to cause
pea-soup water. I'm running my diatom today, the first time in 3-4
weeks. The water is clear, but the diatomaceous earth is a nice shade
of green.

[APV...@webtv.net]

Dr Solo you pass on a lot of wrong info. You seem to have a know it all
Attitude. All i do is i post what i think will interest people in the
group. Rite away you Rebutal and most of the time your off base. Phd,
Dr, means nothing i know plenty of Dumb Drs. and Lab Techs. Keep posting
me and a few buddies when there here have a few Laughs...I always
thought females Squated...Another misinfomed post. AL Phd in Pond Scum
lol;-)

[K30a]

Al wrote >>I always
thought females Squated.<<

Okay, I haven't been following this thread
but..... geeze, this is offensive as heck.

k30a

[APV...@webtv.net]

I will keep this simple Aqutico page number 447 tech #73. Now page
number449 Exposures needed to kil Micro Organisms. uW sec/cm2. The
killing power is in the the size of the UV and the flow rate. What you
want is in the Unit you buy for Specific Applications. To State that it
has no Killing Power is EL WRONGO MONDO. Or Search Ultraviolet
Sterilization in Water Treament Vasilities. Dr AL PHD IN Pond Scum.

[APV...@webtv.net]

I never said to Sterilize a Pond. It can keep Diseases in check. Most
Pathogens have a free swimming stage so a lot of them can be killed. I
use it for Green water purposes. Your statement on Large Aqs. loosing
all sorts of fish is incorrect as usual. Do they loose fish of course.
There filter systems can carry the over loads if any in some Displays.
Some have Lakes that are man made to feed fresh water systems. They also
make Salt water for marine systems if they are far from Salt Water which
most of them are not. Oh don't lift your leg you will wet your shoes;-)

[John Rutz]

K30a wrote:

i have been and I dont knowwhat the hell

[APV...@webtv.net]

The Old Somebody Gave ME a UV Trick Agent 99. Hmmmm......

[~ jan]

>On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:10:20 -0400 (EDT), APV...@webtv.net wrote:

>All i do is i post what i think will interest people in the
>group.

And then get as defensive as hell when someone even slightly disagrees.

Or...............
even when they might agree with you, but are not sure if they're reading
your post correctly due to your personal typing style. Pow!

Taking great risk at getting royally flamed here but........
when one's typing skills are so poor that others can misconstrue the
meaning one ought to think about using grammar and/or, at the very least,
spell check. Quite frankly I delete many of your posts because I don't have
the time, or patience, to decode them.

I'm not talking the occasional misspelled word or typo that all of us make,
including (especially) me, but this constant abuse on the eye & brain. When
I see writing like this over and over I feel the author obviously doesn't
care enough to take the time to make it readable, so why should I take the
time to try to read it? ~ jan
See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
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