Question about Portraits on Snow
eric
lets think about this for a minute.......in photography the standard for
meters is 18% gray......so if you take a meter reading of the snow what
is the meter going to do? it is going to turn the meter into 18% gray.
so we would have to open up our exposure (depending on how acurate your
meter) anywhere from 1 - 3 stops, maybe even more if this is a really
black dog if you want detail in the face......i would even consider
using a little fill light from a small flash to hit the dog in the
face......hope this helps........
eric
http://rampages.onramp.net/~erics
Marc Durocher wrote:
>
> I have been asked by a friend to take some pictures of her black
> Labrador Retrievers outside in the snow. These will be portrait type
> shots where showing detail of the dog is very important.
>
> I have an older Pentax P3n camera and I believe that the light meter
> simply takes an average reading of the scene. My concern is that the
> bright white background may make the dog shaded.
>
> My camera does have a memory lock for the lighlt meter, so I am
> wondering if I get in close and make sure I lock onto the dog, will it
> be enough to ensure proper exposure and contrast. I will be using
> color print film. I will be trying to use a cloudy day to reduce the
> glare and I plan to use a flash for fill.
>
> Does anyone have any recomendations or experience that could help me
> make sure these shots look as good as possible under the conditions.
>
> Please keep in mind that I am only an amateur and unfortunatly I can't
> afford to buy any lighting equipment (yet!)
>
> Thanks for the help!
>
> Yours Hackingly,
>
> Marc Durocher
> E-Mail: BigGuy AT mailzone DOT com
> To send me E-Mail remove the *SB* from my e-mail address.
Michael Quack
Marc Durocher <Bigguy*SB*@Mailzone.com> schrieb im Beitrag
<34056ef3...@news.ntl.sympatico.ca>...
>
> I have been asked by a friend to take some pictures of her black
> Labrador Retrievers outside in the snow. These will be portrait type
> shots where showing detail of the dog is very important.
> I have an older Pentax P3n camera and I believe that the light meter
> simply takes an average reading of the scene. My concern is that the
> bright white background may make the dog shaded.
> My camera does have a memory lock for the lighlt meter, so I am
> wondering if I get in close and make sure I lock onto the dog, will it
> be enough to ensure proper exposure and contrast. I will be using
> color print film. I will be trying to use a cloudy day to reduce the
> glare and I plan to use a flash for fill.
>
> Does anyone have any recomendations or experience that could help me
> make sure these shots look as good as possible under the conditions.
You can get along far easier. Take a meter reading off a Kodak grey card
(you should be able to finance that) that you put exactly where the dog
will be posed afterwards. The height above sea level is of importance,
because the snow works like a reflector.
Set your camera manually to the reading you got, and bracket with a second
exposure with half a f-stop plus. This will not allow the camera to have a
different reading on every negative depending how you frame dog and snow
and give you pretty much the same exposure on every neg, which will also
make it easier for the lab.
You don't have to wait for a cloudy day, but start when the sun is low in
your back (early morning/late afternoon) and don't shoot around noon. No
flash will be needed. The sun will provide highlights, and the snow will do
the fill.
--
Michael Quack
(Photo...@aol.com)
Website: <http://members.aol.com/photoquack/index.htm>
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wesch.exe
Bill Wright
Bigguy*SB*@Mailzone.com (Marc Durocher) posted:
>take some pictures of her black Labrador Retrievers outside in the snow. These will
>be portrait type shots where showing detail of the dog is very important.
Hair (dog fur) can be a specular reflector and therefore can
'fool' your meter. Your general approach is correct, but consider
using a polarizer to eliminate snow glare as well as hair glare.
(silly rhyme not intended)
Since a flash is specular lighting as well, consider using a
large reflector as a fill light -- not a flash. Such as a sheet of
white cardboard or a bedhseet or such.
Shooting in diffused daylight (shade, overcast day, etc) will
also help with the specular problem.
Don't forget that snow, especially if in a shadow, can have a
strong cyan or blue cast. It may also reflect a considerable amount
of cyan or blue light onto the dog. Since the black dog is at the
"dark" end of the spectrum already, probably you will want to have an
assortment of warming filters handy -- especially if you're in a
shadowed area. Skylight, the 81 series, etc.
Depth-of-filed will vary with aperture, but most likely you want
to focus on the dog's eyes. That's where the animal's "soul" is.
...and finally, remember that gentle shadings from -shadows- on
the dog's face and body (from the camera's point of view!) is what
will bring out the dog's shape and form.
So think about the location of the sun (including altitude,
which is a function of time-of-day) and the reflector's location
(including height above the ground) and the camera's location
(close to the ground?)
With a 'monotone' dog, it's going to be the form shadows that
bring out the dog's body form and expression.
Good luck.
(posted and emailed)
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Dogfart232
>
>Watch out where those Huskies go and don't you eat that yellow snow.
>
>http://www.flash.net/~wesch
Aw crap Sarge, I wanted to say that 8-(
Larry
As she abused the sausage patty, and said why don't you treat me mean.
Michael Leone
"Michael Quack" <michae...@metronet.de> wrote:
>Marc Durocher <Bigguy*SB*@Mailzone.com> schrieb im Beitrag
><34056ef3...@news.ntl.sympatico.ca>...
>>
>> I have been asked by a friend to take some pictures of her black
>> Labrador Retrievers outside in the snow. These will be portrait type
>> shots where showing detail of the dog is very important.
>> I have an older Pentax P3n camera and I believe that the light meter
>> simply takes an average reading of the scene. My concern is that the
>> bright white background may make the dog shaded.
>> My camera does have a memory lock for the lighlt meter, so I am
>> wondering if I get in close and make sure I lock onto the dog, will it
>> be enough to ensure proper exposure and contrast. I will be using
>> color print film. I will be trying to use a cloudy day to reduce the
>> glare and I plan to use a flash for fill.
>>
>> Does anyone have any recomendations or experience that could help me
>> make sure these shots look as good as possible under the conditions.
>
>You can get along far easier. Take a meter reading off a Kodak grey card
<snip>
>Set your camera manually to the reading you got,
Since the dogs are black, and you would want them to show up DARK,
wouldn't you then have to close down a stop or two (i.e., if the
reading was f5.6, set the camera to f8 or f11)? Else the dogs would
appear more "grayish"?
Of course, a stop or so down from the grey card would make the dogs
dark, and the snow REALLY bright, since the snow would be a stop or
more HIGHER (lighter) than the grey card. That would be a lot of film
latitude, correct?
>and bracket with a second exposure with half a f-stop plus.
Unless it's print film (which most amateurs - including me - use), in
which case half a stop bracketing is unnoticeable.
I started with a P3n - a good begining manual focus camera. No
automatic bracketing, tho. Center-weighted metering only.
After a couple years, I moved up to a Nikon autofocus model (6006),
but I appreciate the exposure lessons I learned (not enough, judging
from some of my pictures! :-) that I learned from this camera.
Black dogs, white snow, with detail in the dogs. Sounds challenging to
me!
Noel J. Bergman
Personal thoughts: Snow is typically metered between 1.5 and 2 above middle
gray. The black lab is going to be between 1.5 and 2 below middle gray.
Meter a gray card, shoot at -1, -1.5, -2, -2.5. That will give you multiple
choices for subjective evaluation. Shoot Kodachrome 200, which is extremely
sharp, but the grain will help put some texture back into the snow and coat.
The snow will act as a natural reflector to fill in under the dogs' chests,
so shadows won't be too much of a problem. Do not shoot in shade, because
the snow will have a tendency to go "bluish" on you. Use fill flash or a
reflector to kick sparkle into the eyes.
--- Noel
Michael Quack
Michael Leone <tur...@pil.net> schrieb im Beitrag
<34086162...@news.netaxs.com>...
> "Michael Quack" <michae...@metronet.de> wrote:
> >Marc Durocher <Bigguy*SB*@Mailzone.com> schrieb im Beitrag
> ><34056ef3...@news.ntl.sympatico.ca>...
> >> I have been asked by a friend to take some pictures of her black
> >> Labrador Retrievers outside in the snow. These will be portrait type
> >> shots where showing detail of the dog is very important.
> >> I have an older Pentax P3n camera and I believe that the light meter
> >> simply takes an average reading of the scene. My concern is that the
> >> bright white background may make the dog shaded.
> >> My camera does have a memory lock for the lighlt meter, so I am
> >> wondering if I get in close and make sure I lock onto the dog, will it
> >> be enough to ensure proper exposure and contrast. I will be using
> >> color print film. I will be trying to use a cloudy day to reduce the
> >> glare and I plan to use a flash for fill.
> >> Does anyone have any recomendations or experience that could help me
> >> make sure these shots look as good as possible under the conditions.
> >
> >You can get along far easier. Take a meter reading off a Kodak grey card
> >Set your camera manually to the reading you got,
>
> Since the dogs are black, and you would want them to show up DARK,
> wouldn't you then have to close down a stop or two (i.e., if the
> reading was f5.6, set the camera to f8 or f11)? Else the dogs would
> appear more "grayish"?
No, of course not. Metering a black dog would require compensation, but
metering the grey card provides the standard to which all meters are
calibrated. Manually setting the metering result will have you ending up
with exactly what you wanted. Correcting exposure is only needed when you
take a meter reading off anything *not* grey card grey.
> Of course, a stop or so down from the grey card would make the dogs
> dark, and the snow REALLY bright, since the snow would be a stop or
> more HIGHER (lighter) than the grey card. That would be a lot of film
> latitude, correct?
The snow will be somewhere in zone VII to X, the dog presumably in zone
III. This is still a printable range, bcause anything above VII won't be
part of the main subject.
> >and bracket with a second exposure with half a f-stop plus.
> Unless it's print film (which most amateurs - including me - use), in
> which case half a stop bracketing is unnoticeable.
It's not. Provided that the dog may be around zone II, it will get too dark
for nuances in the fur. Adding half an f-stop will add depth to the dark
tones of the picture.
> I started with a P3n - a good begining manual focus camera. No
> automatic bracketing, tho. Center-weighted metering only.
> After a couple years, I moved up to a Nikon autofocus model (6006),
> but I appreciate the exposure lessons I learned (not enough, judging
> from some of my pictures! :-) that I learned from this camera.
> Black dogs, white snow, with detail in the dogs. Sounds challenging to
> me!
It is, but simply following my advice makes it as easy as eating a piece of
cake.
Black dogs are never really black, and the setup I suggested works.
Michael Quack
Noel J. Bergman <no...@ibm.net> schrieb im Beitrag
<34099...@news1.ibm.net>...
> Personal thoughts: Snow is typically metered between 1.5 and 2 above
middle
> gray. The black lab is going to be between 1.5 and 2 below middle gray.
can be copied.
> Meter a gray card, shoot at -1, -1.5, -2, -2.5. That will give you
multiple
> choices for subjective evaluation.
No, it will give you underexposed slides. You have stated very well that
the dog will be somewhere around zone III. Shooting it at -1 will position
the dog in zone II, which is almost without definition. Going down to -2.5
will give you a jet black silhouette.
> Shoot Kodachrome 200, which is extremely
> sharp, but the grain will help put some texture back into the snow and
coat.
Following my advice should render texture without acrobatic tricks. If he
needs prints, he weill be better off with color negatives.
> The snow will act as a natural reflector to fill in under the dogs'
chests,
> so shadows won't be too much of a problem. Do not shoot in shade,
because
> the snow will have a tendency to go "bluish" on you. Use fill flash or a
> reflector to kick sparkle into the eyes.
That's what I recommended, too.
Noel J. Bergman
Whoops! Michael is correct; if you meter the gray card as I suggested,
bracket around 0, not around -1.5. I wasn't thinking when I said that. You
would use the brackets I mentioned (-1 to -2.5) IFF you meter the DOG, not
the gray card!
I still recommend the Kodachrome, but then again, I also recommend custom
Ilfochromes to C-prints.
--- Noel