In-door portrait: help choosing a lighting system
Alex X. Zhang
I am experimenting with indoor people-portrait (my subjects are family
members and relatives). I experimented with the following systems:
1. Tungsten lights, using 300W utility light bulbs;
2. On-camera (built-in) flash;
3. A flash unit with an AC slave.
I started with system 1 and I like what I did except one thing: the
yellowish tint in the final product. So after reading a number of
portrait books (borrowed from my local public library and purchased from
bookstores), I started using flash. First I tried using the built-in
flash on my camera (as the main light) together with the tungsten lights
for hair light /background light. The result is that the yellowish tint
was disappearing, but there is a visible dark shadow behind the subject
--- this, according to my friends, is a sure sign of snapshots, amateur
work.
I went to a monthly camera expo last sunday (in Buena Park, California),
and got two light stands with umbrellas, and a small AC slave unit (guide
number 90 feet). I tried to form a 2-light system: AC slave reflected off
the umbrella as a fill light, and a flash (Canon 380EX) on my camera as
the main light (bounced off a white board). The result is
dissappointing: the slave seemingly fired, but there is no effect on the
final picture. This puzzled me for a while, then I realized that the
Canon E-TTL flash basically misled the slave unit: E-TTL flashes twice in
rapid succession for each exposure, the first flash as a test for
evaluation, the second as the true flash. But the AC unit detected the
first flash and went off. When the true (second) flash is fired from the
camera, the slave unit cannot recharge quickly enough to fire. So the end
result is: no effect from the slave.
So my questions to all the pros out there are:
1. How do I make the Canon E-TTL system to work with the slave unit? I
don't think that I can turn off the E-TTL system. Has any one used the
Canon 380EX with Elan or Rebel G together with a strobe or slave unit?
2. Is it correct to assume that if I am serious about achieving the
"studio" quality, I should go for the powerful (and expensive) studio
flash units?
What essential equipment would be required for studio-quality pictures?
Will I need a flash meter?
3. How does the multiple-flash setup (using 540EZ, 380EX etc) compare
with the multiple studio heads (powerful 1000 watt-seconds)?
Any experiences, advice and suggestions will be appreciated.
Alex X. Zhang,
Los Angeles, CA.
John or Jenn
In article <xin-230497...@iom-2.usc.edu> Alex X. Zhang,
x...@rcf.usc.edu writes:
>2. Is it correct to assume that if I am serious about achieving the
>"studio" quality, I should go for the powerful (and expensive) studio
>flash units?
Probably yes...you can fire flashes into umbrellas (that零 how we
started), but without modeling lights, it零 hard to see what you雹e
doing.
>What essential equipment would be required for studio-quality pictures?
>Will I need a flash meter?
Yes, absolutely.
>Alex X. Zhang,
>Los Angeles, CA.
Since you雹e in LA, start picking up a copy of the Recycler (available
at many liquor stores...comes out sometime on Thurdsay), and watch for
used studio lighting. Try to find a 2-4 head outfit for $200-???
and start that way...you can always unload it on some other beginner
if end up not liking it, or if you want something newer later. Watch
the ads for a while, use Deja-news on rec.photo-marketplace, etc. to
get an idea of what the asking price is for used stuff, then go out
and buy something.
Good luck!
John
Crazy Horse
x...@rcf.usc.edu (Alex X. Zhang) wrote:
>I am experimenting with indoor people-portrait (my subjects are family
>members and relatives). I experimented with the following systems:
>
>1. Tungsten lights, using 300W utility light bulbs;
>
>2. On-camera (built-in) flash;
>
>3. A flash unit with an AC slave.
>
>I started with system 1 and I like what I did except one thing: the
>yellowish tint in the final product.
>[SNIP]
>Alex X. Zhang,
>Los Angeles, CA.
Alex,
If you are really comfortable with system 1 (tungsten), or until you
are able to purchase your strobe system, you might want to purchase an
80A filter which will eliminate the yellowish tint. You should be able
to find them at your local photo shop.
so...@cyberport.cyberportal.net
The yellowish cast that you are seeing is indicative of tungsten
light.Many pros prefer tungsten as it gives you a "what you see is what
you get advantage." You can lean a great deal about lighting this way.If
you are serious about strobe work, purchase some used, self-contained
strobes ie Photogenics. These have variable modeling lights wihich will
allow you to view the light patterns on your subject in the same manner
as tungsten or "hot" lights do. Good luck!
Davide Gazzotti
I achieved good result with the following setup for taking portraits:
- Main light: 1000W tungsten lamp bouced on a white projection screen (the
same I use for viewing transparencies), at one side of the subject
- Fill light: a couple of 500W tungsten lamps bounced on white wall
(actually their light is slightly more red coloured than the main light), at
the other side of the subject
- Effect light: a 150W slide projector with a near transparent but reddish
slide in order to shift its light colour towards the other lamps' colour
(slide projectors have a bit more blue light), placed behind the subject at
one side, in order to light its hair...
A 3mx3m panel as a backgroud (white/black/grey...).
For colour pictures I simply used slide film for tungsten light (such as
Kodak 160T or 320T), or a fast daylight color print film (ISO 400/800) with
80A blue conversion filter as most non-professianal photo finishers cannot
properly correct the red dominant (hoping "dominant" is the right word in
English) caused by tungsten lights with daylight films.
For B/W I love Ilford HP5.
Hope this helps,
Davide (Italy)
Alex X. Zhang
In article <xin-230497...@iom-2.usc.edu>, x...@rcf.usc.edu (Alex X.
Zhang) wrote:
> I am experimenting with indoor people-portrait (my subjects are family
> members and relatives). I experimented with the following systems:
>
> 1. Tungsten lights, using 300W utility light bulbs;
> >
> I started with system 1 and I like what I did except one thing: the
> yellowish tint in the final product. So after reading a number of
> portrait books (borrowed from my local public library and purchased from
> bookstores), I started using flash. First I tried using the built-in
> flash on my camera (as the main light) together with the tungsten lights
> for hair light /background light. The result is that the yellowish tint
> was disappearing, but there is a visible dark shadow behind the subject
> --- this, according to my friends, is a sure sign of snapshots, amateur
> work.
>
I posted the first message to ask for advice.
I should mention that I have tried the blue 80A filter for tungsten
light. I found two things: (1) the filter makes me lose 2 stops, so I
will be shooting a 400speed print film at f4.5 for 1/20 second or so. Is
this kind of speed low (although I use a tripod)? Will a smile (or any
other changing facial expression) too fast to blur the photo at 1/20
second? (2) The filter still doesn't give me complete tint-free prints.
So I tried flashes.
Alex Zhang.
> Any experiences, advice and suggestions will be appreciated.
>
Andrew Brierley
> 1. How do I make the Canon E-TTL system to work with the slave unit? I
> don't think that I can turn off the E-TTL system. Has any one used the
> Canon 380EX with Elan or Rebel G together with a strobe or slave unit?
You stated that you bought a couple of stand and umbrellas, so what I would
do (and have done myself succesfully) is buy a mount to put your canon
flash on one stand and put the slave on the other stand. Use the canon at
full power with no TTL. You should be able to buy a hot shoe to sync lead
adaptor and a sync lead to hot shoe adaptor (Made by Hama as well as
others) so that you can fire the flash. This is a lot chaeper then buying
Canons dedicated cables but you wont get any TTL which is not neccesary in
this case anyway. Dont worry about a flash meter at this stage as they are
expensive (You could buy a more needed lens for te same money)
Now set the flashes up to either side of you using one as a main (The
canon) and one as a kicker or fill light. Note how many meters the units
are away from the subject and take a test roll of film. My educated guess
would be that if the units are being used with a silver umbrella and are
two meters from the subject then using 400 asa film you would get an
exposure of about f5.6. Use this as a starting point and take shots at 1, 2
and 3 stop above and below this. This will give you a good starting point.
Once you know what works you can re-create the same setup/setups each time.
Always seat your subject away from their background for two reasons, one to
keep the backgroud out of focus and two to prevent shadows from appearing.
I have used a setup similar to this only with two metz flash units for the
last 7 years until I finally bought a set of Courtenay units. I have used
this even for professional work as it it is a lot lighter then dragging
around a studio setup. The first photo on my web page was taken with a
single Metz 45 CT-1 on a stand with silver umbrella which I carry with me
to weddingsin case it rains and I cant get outdoor formals.
> 3. How does the multiple-flash setup (using 540EZ, 380EX etc) compare
> with the multiple studio heads (powerful 1000 watt-seconds)?
If you are going to spend any more money then what you already have then it
is a false economy to try and do it on the cheap. Buy the time you buy new
stands and new umbrellas, brackets, slave units etc you will find that you
could have bought a 2 - 3 head mains setup including stands etc for the
same price second hand.. My system cost me $560 US and came with 3 250 w/s
Courtenay heads, stands, reversable umbrellas, reflectors and I made a
snoot out of black cardboard. The biggest advantage of a mains unit is the
modelling light.
hope this helps and good luck
Andrew
--
*************Tru-Vision Photography*************
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~brierley
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Rick Klein
x...@rcf.usc.edu (Alex X. Zhang) wrote:
Boy, does this sound familiar! I've been down the same road. Like you,
it took me a while to figure out that the blasted e-TTL of the 380EX
was causing the slave(s) to fire too early. According to the Canon
manual, if you switch the camera to manual mode, it reverts to TTL
only. That should get the slaves to firing at the proper time. Also,
the built-in flash is TTL and can be used properly with the slaves. I
have not personally tested the manual mode solution, but I did try the
built-in flash approach and the slaves worked fine.
The next step I took was to purchase two Vivitar 285HVs (with the
Vivitar filter kits) and a flash meter. I mounted the 285s on tripods
via adapters, attached a peanut slave to one, mounted a hot shoe
adapter to the Canon so that I could hook up a PC cord, and did not
use the 380EX at all. Rather than umbrellas I bought a Lumiquest Ultra
Soft and a Lumiquest 80/20 bouncer. I placed one 285 near the camera
with the 80/20 and the other 285 I fired against the backdrop. On the
backdrop flash I place the different colored filters and zoom the
flash head in and out to get varied and dramatic portraits. The
backdrop flash I set at one to two stops higher than the front light.
The above configuration and technique has proven very cost effective.
As long as I bounce the flash that's by the camera, I get studio-look
lighting.
It wasn't long, however, until I sprung $650 for a Novatron Fun Kit
with a hard case and a snoot. I am extremely happy with it and I
supplement, when desired, with those good ol' 285s. They work very
well together. The Fun Kit comes with two heads and the two 285s give
me a total of four lights.
I see no way around a flash meter. They are worth their weight in
gold. If you're on a budget, there are models available for around
$100 that work great. The cheaper models are limited in that they work
on flash only and their accuracy is one stop. Neither of these
limitations will cause you significant grief.
Hope this helps. Hang in there, you'll find the exact setup you like
eventually.
>I went to a monthly camera expo last sunday (in Buena Park, California),
>and got two light stands with umbrellas, and a small AC slave unit (guide
>number 90 feet). I tried to form a 2-light system: AC slave reflected off
>the umbrella as a fill light, and a flash (Canon 380EX) on my camera as
>the main light (bounced off a white board). The result is
>dissappointing: the slave seemingly fired, but there is no effect on the
>final picture. This puzzled me for a while, then I realized that the
>Canon E-TTL flash basically misled the slave unit: E-TTL flashes twice in
>rapid succession for each exposure, the first flash as a test for
>evaluation, the second as the true flash. But the AC unit detected the
>first flash and went off. When the true (second) flash is fired from the
>camera, the slave unit cannot recharge quickly enough to fire. So the end
>result is: no effect from the slave.
>
>So my questions to all the pros out there are:
>
>1. How do I make the Canon E-TTL system to work with the slave unit? I
>don't think that I can turn off the E-TTL system. Has any one used the
>Canon 380EX with Elan or Rebel G together with a strobe or slave unit?
>
>2. Is it correct to assume that if I am serious about achieving the
>"studio" quality, I should go for the powerful (and expensive) studio
>flash units?
>What essential equipment would be required for studio-quality pictures?
>Will I need a flash meter?
>
>3. How does the multiple-flash setup (using 540EZ, 380EX etc) compare
>with the multiple studio heads (powerful 1000 watt-seconds)?
>
Ron K
>I should mention that I have tried the blue 80A filter for tungsten
>light. I found two things: (1) the filter makes me lose 2 stops, so I
>will be shooting a 400speed print film at f4.5 for 1/20 second or so. Is
>this kind of speed low (although I use a tripod)? Will a smile (or any
>other changing facial expression) too fast to blur the photo at 1/20
>second? (2) The filter still doesn't give me complete tint-free prints.
>
>So I tried flashes.
1/20 is fine - as long as you not shooting pets or children. :-)
But why are you setting yourself up for this much trouble.
SCRAP the tungsten, SCRAP the filter, Use the stobes in cheap small
soft boxes or bounced off white photographic umbrellas (even silver
which will give you more exposure from the weak units). Or even a
couple pieces of white foam core board - if on a budget. Strobes will
allow you to shoot a 1/60 or 1/250 or 250th - depending on your
camera... Or in my case any shutter speed. (I use leaf shuttered RZ's)
When your done playing around - box the lights up and go find a window
(one without direct sunlight).
_________________________________________________
Ron:
STUDIO site: http://www.houseofphotography.com
Personal site: http://www.iserv.net/~rojoyinc
_________________________________________________
Ron K
On 24 Apr 1997 12:06:41 GMT, so...@cyberport.cyberportal.net wrote:
>The yellowish cast that you are seeing is indicative of tungsten
>light.Many pros prefer tungsten as it gives you a "what you see is what
>you get advantage."
FEW pro's use tungsten light for portraits. Few if ANY. Tungsten er
Quartz rather is used by commercial photographers. Pro portrait
photographers do NOT use tungsten lighting.
>you are serious about strobe work, purchase some used, self-contained
>strobes ie Photogenics. These have variable modeling lights wihich will
>allow you to view the light patterns on your subject in the same manner
>as tungsten or "hot" lights do. Good luck!
>
_________________________________________________
Oleg Volk
A few suggestions:
Stay away from strobes w/o preview lights (unless you can shoot Polaroid
first and can put up with low power)
Stay away from tungsten (my last tungsten set-up required 2KW of lights at
less than 4 feet -- subjects complained of french-frying)
If buying strobes, monolights tend to be enough for portraits and more
flexible -- but not always enough for large format still life of
architectural shots.
800J total should be enough for portrait, 2KJ for 4x5 still life, 5KJ+ for
architecture with moving elements...you can get by on less, just with less
fun
Flash heads with interchangable reflectors will be *much* better in the
long run...
Email with specific concerns....
--
--
Oleg Volk
VolkStudio - http://www.ddb.com/volkstudio
NEW PHOTOS in April - "Lover", "Americans the Beautiful"
NEW articles and photos - "Aim...Fire!"
NEW serious site - http://www.ddb.com/volkstudio/aj
Ron K
On Fri, 25 Apr 1997 05:04:01 GMT, jrk...@mindspring.com (Rick Klein)
wrote:
Now - your on the right track!
>The next step I took was to purchase two Vivitar 285HVs (with the
>Vivitar filter kits) and a flash meter. I mounted the 285s on tripods
>via adapters, attached a peanut slave to one, mounted a hot shoe
>adapter to the Canon so that I could hook up a PC cord, and did not
>The above configuration and technique has proven very cost effective.
>As long as I bounce the flash that's by the camera, I get studio-look
>lighting.
>I see no way around a flash meter. They are worth their weight in
>gold. If you're on a budget, there are models available for around
>$100 that work great. The cheaper models are limited in that they work
>>So my questions to all the pros out there are:
>>
>>1. How do I make the Canon E-TTL system to work with the slave unit? I
>>don't think that I can turn off the E-TTL system. Has any one used the
>>Canon 380EX with Elan or Rebel G together with a strobe or slave unit?
I'm a pro of over 20 years and I don't know what your talking about. I
own a Cannon Elan - and a Cannon A2E. Though I have never used either
of these for portraits. (I use 6x7 RZ's for pro level work). I use the
Cannons for personal snapshots etc. I do how ever use several 283s
for my professional level work at weddings, events etc. 285s have
some gimmicks that suck amateurs into paying a bit more. ;-)
>>2. Is it correct to assume that if I am serious about achieving the
>>"studio" quality, I should go for the powerful (and expensive) studio
>>flash units?
More powerful then a 283/285 - yes. But 800-2000 watt seconds are not
needed. I shoot for years with a 400ws photogenic power pack with four
heads in it - and my power plug of choice output 25ws to each head.
totalling only 100ws of power from the pack.
>>What essential equipment would be required for studio-quality pictures?
>>Will I need a flash meter?
No equipment other then a camera is required for studio quality
pictures. If you want studio quality 'portraits' you need only a
decent key light. And a few years of portrait training would
certainly be helpfull.
>>3. How does the multiple-flash setup (using 540EZ, 380EX etc) compare
>>with the multiple studio heads (powerful 1000 watt-seconds)?
I am unclear what a 540EZ or a 380EX is- I presume they are strobes?
1000 ws heads are not needed for studio portrait work. One would be
handing if you were trying to light a large group of 40-60+ people.
And your strobe was 50-60 ft back from the subject. My key (main)
light in my studio was 25ws for years... after changing from
photogenic to WL ultra - I choose a 600ws unit (they're weakest) and
shoot at F8 which the head set at 1/2 power - or 300ws. Since ultras
are not really rated at their model numbers. (I don't think its a
600ws unit) it's probably really a 400ws - so half power would be
around 200ws. My hairlight is around 50ws, my backlight is a norman
norlight which is a 400 WS unit, I use it at about 1/8 power.... and
dial it up or down depending on the background used. For my better
backgrounds- I pull it out and use spill from the main to light the
background. (using only main and hair lights).
Ron K
On 24 Apr 1997 07:35:26 GMT, John or Jenn
<las...@flash.net.removethis> wrote:
>In article <xin-230497...@iom-2.usc.edu> Alex X. Zhang,
>x...@rcf.usc.edu writes:
>>2. Is it correct to assume that if I am serious about achieving the
>>"studio" quality, I should go for the powerful (and expensive) studio
>>flash units?
Yes and know - Studio quality is a good factor "power" which generally
euals the price isn't necessary. I use nearly all my strobs on their
lowest power. I to have one WL ultra 1800 which I sometimes use on
full for projecting background light. Though if you have the power
you have more flexability. A power light is needed for large groups on
location. (40-60+ heads) If you get such a job its nice to have the
power needed. If you merely want heads for studio portraits - save
some money by getting lower power units. 3-4 WL ultra 600's would be
superb.
>Probably yes...you can fire flashes into umbrellas (that零 how we
>started), but without modeling lights, it零 hard to see what you雹e
>doing.
Pretty much all units have modeling light. Hi and lo end.
>>What essential equipment would be required for studio-quality pictures?
>>Will I need a flash meter?
>Yes, absolutely.
Agree'd - without a flash meter you won't be able to do your initial
setup.
>Since you雹e in LA, start picking up a copy of the Recycler (available
>at many liquor stores...comes out sometime on Thurdsay), and watch for
>used studio lighting. Try to find a 2-4 head outfit for $200-???
Try to stay away from junk like Novatron - unless your limited to that
budget. There are some great Photogenic flashmaster packs out there.
I picked up two (years apart) each with 4 heads and stands. I bought
them to get the stands! - These are great units. White lightning
also makes great heads... 600, 1200, 1800 power (ultra line - not
their budget line). They're pretty low priced - a 600 I think runs
around 399.00. You'd need a main, a background light, then you could
use a 3rd or something cheaper and lighter for your hair/seperation
light. Use a fill for reflector in unison with a soft box on your
main.
You could be up for around 1000-1200.00
Ron K
Your mixing two different KINDS (COLORS/TEMPERATURES) of light.
Strobes and Tungsten. SCRAP the tungsten, use your strobes by
'bouncing them' off walls(white ones only), reflectors or preferably
umbrellas to soften their output. Because your using their reflected
light - you will probably need they at maximum power - since I would
assume they are amateur level strobes (flash units).
You can also use 'window light' its FREE and it can be the highest
quality lighting you can get anywhere for any price if you know how to
see it, find it and use it. Many hi-end pro's do very high quality
portraits with nothing more then a window and reflector.
For an example - See portrait to two children by a piano on my web
site. http://www.houseofphotography.com/assorted.htm is the exact
page. The portrait (50x60) was shoot with nothing more then a window.
I wished I had a reflector - I would have liked a bit more light on
the shadow side, but it was spur of the moment and I wasn't equipt
with anything more then a camera. Though it looses A LOT scanned and
dropped to web-site res... it's still a blue ribbon portrait.
>>I am experimenting with indoor people-portrait (my subjects are family
>>members and relatives). I experimented with the following systems:
>>
>>1. Tungsten lights, using 300W utility light bulbs;
>>
>>2. On-camera (built-in) flash;
>>
>>3. A flash unit with an AC slave.
>>
>>I started with system 1 and I like what I did except one thing: the
>>yellowish tint in the final product.
_________________________________________________
Tim Henrion
William S. Rowell <std...@unx1.shsu.edu> wrote in article
>
> While Novatrons may not be as durable or as versatile as, say, White
> Lightnings (which I intend to buy someday when I can afford them)
> I wouldn't characterize them as junk. For the dollar, they put
> out a lot of light, and if you don't need a setup that can be
> kicked around a lot and are willing to spend a little more time
> fiddling with lights, they work well. You can't tell from looking
> at a print what strobes were used to make it, and IMO it's better
> to be using your $800 strobe outfit today than your $8000 outfit
> in a couple of years.
>
I own some Novatron equipment. I would wholeheartedly steer
anyone *AWAY* from Novatron. Buy White Lightning Ultras.
for about $1300 ($429/each), you can buy (3) Ultra 600's
and you'd have something *infinitely* better than what
Novatron would provide you for the same amount of money.
White Lightning Ultras are built better, they have *always*
been voltage regulated, they put out more power and are
*infinitely* (there I go with that word again) more versatile
than anything comparable manufactured/sold by Novatron.
BTW, did I mention that Paul C. Buff, Inc. (the manufacturer
of White Lightnings) has the *best customer service* of any
photography equipment vendor I have *ever* dealt with? These
guys bent over backwards to help me out when I had problems
with one of their units.
http://www.white-lightning.com
Tim Henrion
Fashion/Fine-Art Photographer
http://www.mindspring.com/~henrion
Vince Callaway
I started off with Novatron about 15 years ago and NEVER had a problem with
them.
I now use the White Lightnings. I bought 4 1200's with the CompuScene
controller and would not trade them for anything.
Lights are a tool. Learn to use the tool and don't worry about brand names
so much.
Ron Roberts
In <5ju1rb$f89$1...@unx1.shsu.edu> std...@unx1.shsu.edu (William S.
Rowell) writes:
>
>Ron K (rojo...@iserv.net) wrote:
>: Try to stay away from junk like Novatron - unless your limited to
that
>: budget. There are some great Photogenic flashmaster packs out
there.
>: I picked up two (years apart) each with 4 heads and stands. I bought
>: them to get the stands! - These are great units. White lightning
>: also makes great heads... 600, 1200, 1800 power (ultra line - not
>: their budget line). They're pretty low priced - a 600 I think runs
>: around 399.00. You'd need a main, a background light, then you
could
>: use a 3rd or something cheaper and lighter for your hair/seperation
>: light. Use a fill for reflector in unison with a soft box on your
>: main.
>
>Lightnings (which I intend to buy someday when I can afford them)
>I wouldn't characterize them as junk. For the dollar, they put
>out a lot of light, and if you don't need a setup that can be
>kicked around a lot and are willing to spend a little more time
>fiddling with lights, they work well. You can't tell from looking
>at a print what strobes were used to make it, and IMO it's better
>to be using your $800 strobe outfit today than your $8000 outfit
>in a couple of years.
>
>
>
bought a small set of Novatrons to use on the road back in '86.. They
are still working well.. though I don't use them much now they were a
very good investment.
Ron
GldnCAGrls
in <5jvnsk$7...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, shoo...@ix.netcom.com(Ron
Novatrons are good for very occasional use. However I personally have
seen more smoke pour from Novatrons than any other unit. Next worse
units I have seen are Norman's. Less smoke problems, but internal
fuse blowing and the like from under designed circutry, especially in
their low power units. Speedotron Brown line doesn't hold up either.
I can't speak to Speedotron Black line as I don't have enough
experience with them to form an opinion. Paul C. Buff White
Lightning paint cans do fail, but not as often as others. I do not
recomend using soft boxes on the paint cans for two reasons. First
the vents tend to get blocked by the box and second the modeling lamp
puts too much heat into the fiberglass rods of the box making them
break. Paul C. Buff Ultra units don't seem to quit, but will pop
their circut breakers if you push them too hard, but with a fan on
them (try a clip on one clipped to the stand blowing up) they stand
up well to repeated long hard sessions. As for repair policies you
can't beat Paul C. Buff's. Some of my lights left warranty they
shipped with them five years ago, and they still fix them free!! Try
and get that from any other company!
Speaking of fans, it is the single best thing you can do for you power
pack. Put a fan blowing into the vent. Over time it will save you
hundreds of dollars. The only flashes I allow at my events without
fans are the Paul C. Buff made units.
I torture flash units. As I run photo events, many of the flash units
get popped over 3000 times in the four hours of an event. That is
about once every five to ten seconds for four hours! Normally at
full power too. Pure torture!
http://members.aol.com/gldncagrls/index.html
Tim Henrion
Vince Callaway <vi...@wa.net> wrote in article
<33637...@news1.tacoma.net>...
>
> Lights are a tool. Learn to use the tool and don't worry about brand
names
> so much.
>
when you're dumping a couple of grand on lights it's a
different story.
Ron Roberts
In <01bc5356$03d1b860$4f29...@screamer.mindspring.com> "Tim Henrion"
But the Novatrons are fine for beginning when budgets are tight. the
set I bought (used) 11yrs ago is still working but like I said, I don't
use them much any more.. but they did get used.. Day Cares, Pvt.
Schools, Pre-schools, Santa, etc.. And NEVER missed a beat. I went to a
mono light, Flashpoint a couple of yrs ago.. I still do all of the same
type of shooting and these babies are performing just great..
Maybe I am just lucky, but I agree, lights and cameras etc are just
tools..
You like , Nikon or Hassleblad or Rolli and you like White lighting or,
Novatron, or Black lines or what ever, really doesn't matter.. If what
your putting on film is working.. Then your fine.
Ron
Ron K
>While Novatrons may not be as durable or as versatile as, say, White
>Lightnings (which I intend to buy someday when I can afford them)
>I wouldn't characterize them as junk. For the dollar, they put
>out a lot of light, and if you don't need a setup that can be
I think for the dollar or for a little more you can do MUCH better. I
used Novatron setups for several years when I started out. A freind
spent only a few dollars more and got the Speedolite brown line. And
was very disapointed with the Novatrons. The power packs up and died
on me several times, I got ZAPPED by the heads/bulbs. Flash bulbs
(were not - may be now) changable without a soldiering job.
>kicked around a lot and are willing to spend a little more time
>fiddling with lights, they work well. You can't tell from looking
>at a print what strobes were used to make it, and IMO it's better
>to be using your $800 strobe outfit today than your $8000 outfit
>in a couple of years.
8000 would be extremely rare. WL ultras are only 395-595 each
depending on power. I'd recommend one quality unit over a 3-4 head set
of junk.
>And besides, they hardly ever electrocute their users anymore! :-)
Hardly ever - I was hardly ever zapped by mine - but the 2-3 times it
happend were not very pretty. :-)
Ron K
Got that right.
> That's good advice if you're buying a hammer. Unfortunately
> when you're dumping a couple of grand on lights it's a
> different story.
Tim - nice site - nice layout - what did you use for your text
headings the ones that sometimes are wavy?
The muddy bodies shot is pretty neat... also love the way you
generated the 3d looking 'figure portfolio with zig-zag' what did you
use for these? Uleads prog?
> Tim Henrion
> Fashion/Fine-Art Photographer
> http://www.mindspring.com/~henrion
>
_________________________________________________
Vince Callaway
>> That's good advice if you're buying a hammer. Unfortunately
>> when you're dumping a couple of grand on lights it's a
>> different story.
I have to disagree. We are talking about an amateur photographer wanting
to become more proficient in the craft.
This person was asking for advice on a starter studio. It did not sound to
me like he was going to be putting any great stress on a lighting system.
Systems like Novatron were designed as a starting point. A person wanting
to learn is better severd by saving a couple thousand dollars and investing
it in film and processing. buying fancy lights does not make a
photographer, learning to use light does.
Tim Henrion
In article <33662c6e...@news.iserv.net>, rojo...@iserv.net (Ron K) wrote:
>
> Tim - nice site - nice layout - what did you use for your text
> headings the ones that sometimes are wavy?
> The muddy bodies shot is pretty neat... also love the way you
> generated the 3d looking 'figure portfolio with zig-zag' what did you
> use for these? Uleads prog?
>
Thanks much! I use Ulead's PhotoImpact 3.01 with Web
Extensions for all of the graphics on my site except for
the rendering that's on the front page (that was done with
Caligari trueSpace2). PhotoImpact's an outstanding tool and
*definitely* worth the $99 that it costs.
Tim Henrion
amount of money on junk. The whole point of this thread is
that if the person is going to fork over the money in the first
place, we were steering him away from inferior equipment towards
much higher quality equipment that he could obtain for roughly
the same amount money.
Ron K
True and not true - as a pro - once amateur wanting to "START OUT" and
past owner of 2 novatron power packs and 4 nova heads... I have to
advise against them. I wish I had this newsgroup to HELP ME when I was
looking at starter systems!
>. buying fancy lights does not make a
>photographer, learning to use light does.
But they sure can help him learn faster!- I would highly recommend one
Ultra600 and soft box (around 400.00) over a 4 head novaton system.
The starter will be able to learn faster and get more professional
results sooner.
Ron K
RIGHT ON! - Just think of the money I could have saved by not buying
the Novatron (which then needed to be repared several times, heads
replaced after being knocked over - an additional power pack needed to
be purchased as a BACKUP because the primary power pack would DIE on
the PAYING job. I wouldn't wish that on any starter!
Then to end up dumping it all in upgrading to quality equipment that
wasn't that much more in the first place.
> That does not, however, justify throwing away a significant
> amount of money on junk. The whole point of this thread is
> that if the person is going to fork over the money in the first
> place, we were steering him away from inferior equipment towards
> much higher quality equipment that he could obtain for roughly
> the same amount money.
>
> Tim Henrion
> Fashion/Fine-Art Photographer
> http://www.mindspring.com/~henrion
_________________________________________________
SPECTRUM
Alex X. Zhang wrote:
>
> I am experimenting with indoor people-portrait (my subjects are family
> members and relatives). I experimented with the following systems:
>
> 1. Tungsten lights, using 300W utility light bulbs;
>
> 2. On-camera (built-in) flash;
>
> 3. A flash unit with an AC slave.
>
> I started with system 1 and I like what I did except one thing: the
> portrait books (borrowed from my local public library and purchased from
> bookstores), I started using flash. First I tried using the built-in
> flash on my camera (as the main light) together with the tungsten lights
> for hair light /background light. The result is that the yellowish tint
> was disappearing, but there is a visible dark shadow behind the subject
> --- this, according to my friends, is a sure sign of snapshots, amateur
> work.
>
> and got two light stands with umbrellas, and a small AC slave unit (guide
> number 90 feet). I tried to form a 2-light system: AC slave reflected off
> the umbrella as a fill light, and a flash (Canon 380EX) on my camera as
> the main light (bounced off a white board). The result is
> dissappointing: the slave seemingly fired, but there is no effect on the
> final picture. This puzzled me for a while, then I realized that the
> Canon E-TTL flash basically misled the slave unit: E-TTL flashes twice in
> rapid succession for each exposure, the first flash as a test for
> evaluation, the second as the true flash. But the AC unit detected the
> first flash and went off. When the true (second) flash is fired from the
> camera, the slave unit cannot recharge quickly enough to fire. So the end
> result is: no effect from the slave.
>
>
> 1. How do I make the Canon E-TTL system to work with the slave unit? I
> don't think that I can turn off the E-TTL system. Has any one used the
> Canon 380EX with Elan or Rebel G together with a strobe or slave unit?
Don't bother with any on camera flash units as they aren't powerful
enough, nor do they have a soft diffused light that you'll probably want
to use for studio portraiture. If you need to use a on-camera flash try
the 120 J's or the 'Q' by Quantum.
>
> 2. Is it correct to assume that if I am serious about achieving the
> "studio" quality, I should go for the powerful (and expensive) studio
> flash units?
> What essential equipment would be required for studio-quality pictures?
Contrary to the opinion of most photographers Ibelieve that you should
invest as much as you can in your first set of lights so that you won't
outgrow your system and your system won't be retired right after you buy
it. This will insure longterm parts availability and service-ability
when you need it most, which of course is when you have an important
shoot and it breaks ! Don't be surprised that I mentioned 'breaks'
because all equipment does, sooner or later. In our specialized industry
our 'specialized' is possibly some of the poorest designed
'professional' equipment in the world. That's why I insist on the best
equipment I can afford that will provide the end result that provides my
income every week.
I strongly recommend either Elinchrom or Paul Buff White Lightning
strobes.You won't be disappointed with either of these products as theye
are designed for the working 'pro' in mind. That is to say they are
precisley designed and manufactured to the highest standards.
> Will I need a flash meter?
Definetly.I strongly recommend the Gossen Luna Star F2 or a Minolta
color meter if you can afford it($900).
> 3. How does the multiple-flash setup (using 540EZ, 380EX etc) compare
> with the multiple studio heads (powerful 1000 watt-seconds)?
I don't think that you'll ever need any more than 600 w/s. In
comparison i doubt if your 540 EZ is putting out more than 100 w/s
>
> Any experiences, advice and suggestions will be appreciated.
Your very welcome ! One last word of advice though. Before you jump
into becoming some kind of a 'pro' think about _all_ that that
commitment will require and whether you can actually follow through with
it. As a working 'pro' in N.J. I see studios open and close seasonally
as amatuers jump from the nice warm frying pan into the all to hot fire.
> Alex X. Zhang,
> Los Angeles, CA.
Regards,
John S. Douglas
Spectrum Photographic Inc.
416 Washington Ave.
Pine Beach, N.J. 08741
908.505.8393
SPECTRUM
>
> > I am experimenting with indoor people-portrait (my subjects are family
> > members and relatives). I experimented with the following systems:
> >
> > 1. Tungsten lights, using 300W utility light bulbs;
> > >
> > yellowish tint in the final product. So after reading a number of
> > portrait books (borrowed from my local public library and purchased from
> > bookstores), I started using flash. First I tried using the built-in
> > flash on my camera (as the main light) together with the tungsten lights
> > for hair light /background light. The result is that the yellowish tint
> > was disappearing, but there is a visible dark shadow behind the subject
> > --- this, according to my friends, is a sure sign of snapshots, amateur
> > work.
> >
>
>
> light. I found two things: (1) the filter makes me lose 2 stops, so I
> will be shooting a 400speed print film at f4.5 for 1/20 second or so. Is
> this kind of speed low (although I use a tripod)? Will a smile (or any
> other changing facial expression) too fast to blur the photo at 1/20
> second? (2) The filter still doesn't give me complete tint-free prints.
>
> So I tried flashes.
>
>
> > Any experiences, advice and suggestions will be appreciated.
> >
> > Los Angeles, CA.
The Elinchrom lights have the truest color balance of allavailble
strobes. They simply do not change color at any output level.
--
John or Jenn
In article <336A91...@cybercomm.net> SPECTRUM, spec...@cybercomm.net
writes:
> Don't bother with any on camera flash units as they aren't powerful
>enough, nor do they have a soft diffused light that you'll probably want
>to use for studio portraiture. If you need to use a on-camera flash try
>the 120 J's or the 'Q' by Quantum.
Donąt forget the Lumedyne and Norman units. I believe that you can
get each of these with a modeling light head, so you can use them
for both studio and location lights (and the modeling light ought
to make it easier to focus on those dark dance floors!)
John (who uses a 120J, but wishes heąd gone with Lumedyne, not to
knock the 120J...)
SPECTRUM
The Normans and Lumedyne strobes are definetly my choice for the 2nd
and 3rd best strobes on the market today.White Lightnings would be a
close 4th( based on value they would be 1st! ).I still think Elinchrom
is a little bit better than either but then thats why God made apples
and oranges.
Steven Muncy
I agree. one versatile light and a few reflectors can keep you busy
for years. Also, the single light is a much better training tool which
is can be carried over to outdoor settings as well.
Steve
On Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:05:16 GMT, rojo...@iserv.net (Ron K) wrote:
>
>>While Novatrons may not be as durable or as versatile as, say, White
>>Lightnings (which I intend to buy someday when I can afford them)
>>I wouldn't characterize them as junk. For the dollar, they put
>>out a lot of light, and if you don't need a setup that can be
>
>I think for the dollar or for a little more you can do MUCH better. I
>used Novatron setups for several years when I started out. A freind
>spent only a few dollars more and got the Speedolite brown line. And
>was very disapointed with the Novatrons. The power packs up and died
>on me several times, I got ZAPPED by the heads/bulbs. Flash bulbs
>(were not - may be now) changable without a soldiering job.
>
>>kicked around a lot and are willing to spend a little more time
>>fiddling with lights, they work well. You can't tell from looking
>>at a print what strobes were used to make it, and IMO it's better
>>to be using your $800 strobe outfit today than your $8000 outfit
>>in a couple of years.
>
>8000 would be extremely rare. WL ultras are only 395-595 each
>depending on power. I'd recommend one quality unit over a 3-4 head set
>of junk.
>
>>And besides, they hardly ever electrocute their users anymore! :-)
>
>Hardly ever - I was hardly ever zapped by mine - but the 2-3 times it
>happend were not very pretty. :-)
>
Michael H. Collier
In article <336A95...@cybercomm.net>, SPECTRUM <spec...@cybercomm.net> wrote:
> The Elinchrom lights have the truest color balance of allavailble
>strobes. They simply do not change color at any output level.
in the interests of "complete information", i thought i would add my
own observations. the statement above is for the most part true of my
elinchrom 250R monolights (no significant drift in color temperature
accross their 2-stop output range). it is not true of my elinchrom
pack equipment. i get a drift per stop of output adjustment on the
order of about 80 degrees K (so the full 4 stops of power range on the
pack means about 300 degrees K, the asymmetric 5.5 stops on the heads
means about 400 degrees K). i have the "new" asymmetric packs.
in terms of pack equipment, the only stuff i have worked with that
offered fully consistent color temperature was broncolor pulso A: it
was always +-25 degrees K throughout the 6 stop power range, both
symmetric and asymmetric, and repeatable to within a few degrees K
(which probably means slop in measurement as much as slop in output).
the new broncolor grafit stuff is supposed to be similar, but i have no
hands-on with it.
so, i guess i would consider the statement "elinchrom has the truest
color balance of all available strobes" to be a bit too broad, based on
my own experience. however, i would second any/all recommendations in
favor of elinchrom. it is very good stuff.
--
A Cappella UNIX Enterprise Support Michael H. Collier
11345 E. Grant Rd. email: aca...@netcom.com
Franktown, CO 80116 voice: (303) 898 5794 (24 hrs)
Brain: "Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
Pinky: "I think so, Brain, but if we didn't have ears we'd look like weasels!"
-----
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227, any and
all nonsolicited commercial electronic mail received into to this
account's electronic mailbox is subject to a download and archival fee
in the amount of $500 US. In addition, distribution or publication of
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distribution/publication of this account's electronic mail address for
commercial purposes constitutes acceptance of these terms.
adolph mallory
I'm a former photojournalist and current glamour/portrait photographer
equipped with both Novatrons powerpack based and Photogenic Powerlight
systems. Both have their advantages and disadvantages, and areas in
which they excell. I have one Novatron 440-plus powerpack and four
lights that I purchased in 1983 that have never needed service and for
which I've only replaced modeling lights. I also have a 880 powerpack
and a couple of baretube Novatron heads that perform on demand.
I like the Photogenic Powerlights for quality of construction and ease
of use with softboxes light Apollos or Photoflex 293, but my Novatrons
beat them out for recycle times and portability.
http://www.mindspring.com/~mallorya
=====
So...@NO.Soliciting (Ron K) wrote:
>True and not true - as a pro - once amateur wanting to "START OUT" and
>past owner of 2 novatron power packs and 4 nova heads... I have to
>advise against them. I wish I had this newsgroup to HELP ME when I was
>looking at starter systems!
>>. buying fancy lights does not make a
>>photographer, learning to use light does.
>But they sure can help him learn faster!- I would highly recommend one
>Ultra600 and soft box (around 400.00) over a 4 head novaton system.
>The starter will be able to learn faster and get more professional
>results sooner.
>