B&W family portrait advice needed
Jack D. Jinkins
next week, and I was surprised to be asked to do it in black and
white. Any help with the following would be greatly appreciated:
1. What film to use? (shooting outdoors on 120 format)
2. lighting issues
3. backgrounds
4. clothing for subjects (they were planning on khaki shorts; seems
like a bad idea to me since I think it would be too close to their
caucasian skin tone)
5. there's a black labrador retriever in the mix too if this is an
issue from a technical standpoint.
6. a good lab to use for medium format black and white work
7. anything else you'd like to offer.
Thanks much.
Ted
T-Max 100, Iford HP5 Plus,
try for natural light, no flash, reflectors
see the URL below for some good examples (mostly kids)
for quick links to sessions:
http://www.eddiebonfigli.com/tableofcontents.html
On 9 Jun 2001 16:29:08 -0700, jdji...@yahoo.com (Jack D. Jinkins)
wrote:
Noel Holland
"Jack D. Jinkins" <jdji...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a9a8094b.01060...@posting.google.com...
1+6) My own preference is for Ilford Delta, either 100 or since your working
outside and the lighting might be variable, 400. In 6 you say that you will
be getting a lab to process the negs if so then you might want to think
about using Ilford XP2 which is a B&W film which is processed in C41 colour
chemicals meaning you can use your normal lab for the processing, no special
equipment needed. If you tell them to correct the prints they will come out
black and white, if you tell them not to correct the prints, they will come
out Sepia.
4+5) Khaki shorts? I'd be more worried about pasty legs and hairy knees.
However the Black Labrador is a real pain. They are hard to shoot as a
portrait all on their own never mind in a group of people. You'll have all
the problems of light balance plus the problem of keeping it calm and still.
For light try getting an assistant to punch in extra light onto the dog
using a plain mirror. For the highly active breed like a lab the main
solution to getting it to sit still, is to get some kids to run it ragged
chasing sticks or a frisbee for at least an hour before the shoot begins so
it's too knackered to get excited during the shoot.
3) Backgrounds. For a big group you can hire a massive backdrop but it's
probably best to use the natural background. You don't say where you will be
trying to shoot the group, in a town is difficult, in the country is easier.
Best thing to do is get it firm in your head how big the group will be on
the ground and in the viewfinder. Then start scouting around the area of the
shoot and see what you can find.
2) Outdoors - easy, late afternoon when the sun is getting low on the
horizon and the light is golden. That's the reason Holywood Film crews call
the hour before sunset the Golden Hour, it's when the best light is and most
outdoor shoots are busiest. However you need to make sure the location you
choose will be OK at that time, as there is no point setting up the shoot to
use a nice barn as a backdrop only to find the sun sets behind the barn and
your group is totally in shadow. There are lots of ways of checking where
and when the sun will be in relation to any object involving compasses, maps
and sun tables but the best way to check is to go to the site a couple of
days before the shoot at the right time and check for yourself. Remember if
you are higher lattitudes the sun sets very late just now and parents will
have to be warned if kids will be kept up late.
Finally - if your family will all be coming for different places and long
distances to be at a special family event then the shoot might not be easy
to rearrange. Always have an indoor, foul weather alternative just in case
the worst happens and the heavens open on the day of the shoot. OR fix a
tent over the camera, use high ASA film and give everyone an umbrella and do
the shoot outdoors anyway. IF you can pull that off then you'll have the
most unique family portrait ever.
Regards,
Noel Holland
Noel Holland
Including the dog in the shoot means you will have to show everyones feet or
cut the dogs legs off in frame, this means you can't avoid the pasty legs
problem by close cropping. It will also throw the balance of the shoot out
as you will have everyone standing and a single object, the dog, at their
feet. You might want to out down some picnic blankets and get any kids to
sit down, some parents to sit behind or around and then ge tthe rest to
kneel at the back. This will tighten the vertical and hopefully make
everyone calmer as people are less likely to stiffen when they are sitting
than when they are all standing up. Try and avoid the school photo, rank
upon rank approach as it doesn't fit with family groupings in an informal
setting (given the khiaki shorts I'm assuming your looking for informal).
Of course all this is assuming a country setting (again taken from the
khakli shorts) as picnic blankets on the neighbourhood b'ball court just
isn't going to work.
Regards,
Noel Holland
Mike Jordan
Noel Holland wrote:
>
> As an after thought.
>
> Including the dog in the shoot means you will have to show everyones feet or
> cut the dogs legs off in frame, this means you can't avoid the pasty legs
> problem by close cropping. It will also throw the balance of the shoot out
> as you will have everyone standing and a single object, the dog, at their
> feet. You might want to out down some picnic blankets and get any kids to
The dog shouldn't throw the posing off at all. Depending on how
many people there are, the people can be sitting on the ground (a
slight grassy hill is good) with their legs tucked under them with
the dog laying or sitting in front. Another option is to have a
platform, deck, flat bench etc., with the people sitting or standing
and the dog on the platform or deck. By raising the dog, he can
still get a 3/4ths of the people but the full body of the dog.
Also, you commented in another message about labs being very
active. I've found that they are a lot mellower than some big dogs,
although if there is a lot of activity going on they will get
excited as well. If the kids run it ragged before the shoot then
it's likely to be breathing hard which means it's tounge is going to
be hanging way out. You are right about the black hair needing more
light. I shoot Bouviers which have long black hair that will soak up
every partical of light I throw at them. I call them photo black
holes. <grin> A reflector would work, but a smaller light with barn
doors to control the light might be better. If he sends it to a
custom photo lab they can burn in the dog just a bit to bring it
out... as long as he meters to make sure there is detail in the
shadows.
Hopefully he will post how it goes and a link to one of the
pictures.
Mike
--
Hillsboro, Oregon
Bouvier des Flandres - Herding & Working Dogs
http://www.europa.com/~mjordan - Pictures & Info on Bouviers
Jon Freivald
> However the Black Labrador is a real pain. They are hard to shoot as a
> portrait all on their own never mind in a group of people. You'll have all
> the problems of light balance plus the problem of keeping it calm and
still.
> For light try getting an assistant to punch in extra light onto the dog
> using a plain mirror. For the highly active breed like a lab the main
> solution to getting it to sit still, is to get some kids to run it ragged
> chasing sticks or a frisbee for at least an hour before the shoot begins
so
> it's too knackered to get excited during the shoot.
That would work pretty well for the kids, too!
--
--
Jon Freivald ( j...@freivald.org -- http://www.freivald.org/~jon )
( phone/fax: 516.794.7696 -- e-mail page: pag...@freivald.org {40 chars
max} )
If speed kills, then Windows users may live forever.
Jack D. Jinkins
a rural area. I'm locked into 10:00 a.m. for the shot in Florida. I've
got Mom, Dad, Son, and Dog. What about make up on Mom? She is light
skinned and tends toward bright lipstick. I worry about it coming off
kind of clownish looking (same thing in color come to think of it).
Thanks for all the advice so far.
zeitgeist
"Jack D. Jinkins" wrote:
>
> Never did this before. I'm shooting a family portrait on Saturday of
> next week, and I was surprised to be asked to do it in black and
> white. Any help with the following would be greatly appreciated:
how many different topics are we covering in one post?
>
> 1. What film to use? (shooting outdoors on 120 format)
Its a bit late to be wild eyed guessing what the lab will do with
whatever film you decide on using, so I would suggest TCN or XP2 which
are far more forgiving and you will know that the developement will be
far more consistent.
> 2. lighting issues
In other's posts you were advised about twilight/golden hour, your reply
about being locked in at 10:30 seriously restricts your options. I
would shoot with the sun at their backs and hope their noses don't get
lit up. Then flash the front to f/11 so the background is one stop
over. OR find some open shade, under a tree, and if you can find that
plus a shaded background then you are in luck.
the trouble with that particular time is that the sun is usually so
straight down that the noses and cheekbones are lighted, but the eyes
are in deep shade under the eyebrows, that's a good four stops
difference so you can't split the difference cause either one will be
just beyond the film's ability to record and you will end up with washed
out noses and still have black spots where the eyes should be. use a
strong flash, off camera, or better yet key slave and on camera fill, so
you could shoot at f/ll, fill at f/8 and your background will be f/16
with 1/125. TCN and xp2 are supposedly iso 400 but handle well 100
with snappier images.
how many people are we talking about? If a very small family, mom, dad
and a toddler, I could have them huddle together and then an assistant
could hold a translucent scrim over them, this cuts only a stop or so,
the background can be in full sun and still be printable though hi key.
however the sun is still coming straight down.
> 3. backgrounds
are there any tree lined streams, babbling brooks with rocks and
overhanging trees, you get open shade with a chance of a shaded
background, a receeding background with places for people to sit, oh
yeah, aligators, by by doggie... oh yeah florida is a flat as (insert
lame joke about female of your choice)
> 4. clothing for subjects (they were planning on khaki shorts; seems
> like a bad idea to me since I think it would be too close to their
> caucasian skin tone)
bare legs and bare arms give you a lot of compositional vectors to deal
with, though if they keep the tops the same tone as the shorts and you
go with the hi key (bright background via overexposure) concept then the
light tones will blend with the sand etc, then all you will have to
worry about is the damn yankee wearing the black socks with his
sandals. dark clothes leave you with faces and hands, three
compositional elements that you can do practically anything with, but
when you have a face and two much larger arms, a groups shot with lots
of bare arms and legs often turns into a jumble of appendages where the
faces can get lost.
> 5. there's a black labrador retriever in the mix too if this is an
> issue from a technical standpoint.
See if you can get someone to be responcible for the dog, a wrangler so
to speak. the main problem with a dog isn't the dog's behavior, its just
when everything seems perfect, at least ONE person will turn to see what
the dog is doing just as the shutter is snapped, it is worse than fussy
babies and moms looking down every half second. I find making a
whimpering puppy sound works best on the dogs, it perks their ears up,
and works longer than most clickers or wistles.
> 6. a good lab to use for medium format black and white work
good lab and black and white film is an extremely opinionated topic, and
it seems that the more 'professional' the lab, the more inconsistent
they can be, or so a group of very top level pro photogs groan and
mumble about, the kind with their own densitometers and really do know
zone systems. one reason tcn and xp2 are so highly appreciated among
portrait/wedding folks, the film processing is at least consistent,
among other reasons.
> 7. anything else you'd like to offer.
check out www.zuga.net for some tutorials on lighting and posing, there
are sections on family portraits, and the guy lives in florida now so
there may be some site specific things there.
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