eBAY bullshit...
dbc
and once you get the item you may have been duped...
I was when I bought a 'Brownie' camera for 450.00 it was junk and didn't
even work, but they sure and hell didn't say that when I went to put a
bid on it...
"Oh it's in 100% working order..."
learn from my experience
William Lee
dbc wrote in message <367670...@mail.jax.bellsouth.net>...
You sent $450 to someone you dont know for a camera you never seen? You are
lucky you got anything back.
I would never deal with some stranger I met on the internet and send them
money. I bet you also leave the keys in your car and your front door to your
house unlocked. I dont mean to slam you but you are a bit too trusting to be
trading on the internet.
Ray
David Foy
elusive Kodak Instamatic 104 for $377.51, and when it arrived it was crap!
--
Hitting "reply-to" won't get a reply past the spam blocker, so please
reply to: davi...@shaw.wave.ca
David Foy, 1431 6th St NW, Calgary AB T2M 3E7 (403)282-0512
Eosman
In article <755rn1$kfp$1...@samsara0.mindspring.com>, "William Lee"
<wil...@interconnect.net> writes:
>dbc wrote in message <367670...@mail.jax.bellsouth.net>...
>>you have NO real idea the condition of what you purchase
>>
>>and once you get the item you may have been duped...
>>
>>I was when I bought a 'Brownie' camera for 450.00 it was junk and didn't
>>even work, but they sure and hell didn't say that when I went to put a
>>bid on it...
>>
>>"Oh it's in 100% working order..."
>>
>>
>>learn from my experience
>
>You sent $450 to someone you dont know for a camera you never seen? You are
>lucky you got anything back.
>I would never deal with some stranger I met on the internet and send them
>money. I bet you also leave the keys in your car and your front door to your
>house unlocked. I dont mean to slam you but you are a bit too trusting to be
>trading on the internet.
>
Unfortunately, sending money to people you don't know for merchandise you have
never seen is pretty much how trading on ebay (or the internet) works. For big
purchases you may use an escrow service but for most transactions you work on
trust.
In order to gain access to the huge "used" merchandise market made available by
the internet, you have to assume the risk that the merchandise may not be what
you expect or in rare cases that the other person is intent on ripping you off.
Risk can be mitigated by asking the seller specific questions regarding the
condition of the merchandise. Always make sure that your "rating" scale is
consistent with that of the seller. For large $ amounts, get a phone number
and call the seller. Check to see if there is a phonebook listing that agrees
with the address you are sending money to. Etc. If at any point something
"feels" wrong, don't proceed with the deal. Better to have missed out on a
potential good deal than to get burned.
Most transactions go smoothly, or if there is a problem, the seller cooperates
in resolving it. Undoubtably there are a few losers (or criminals) out there.
The key is not to risk anything you can't afford to lose.
al...@jps.net
Turned out to be worth about $1100 as it was a limited edition by an
artist. He sold it to Neiman Marcus (this is all verifiable).
NO BULL, JUST FACTS!
We have bought and sold hundreds of items on Ebay and have had only 2
problems. We are not dealers but hobbyists who enjoy using the internet.
Did we let these 2 problems stop us? No way. We have made up for it 100
times over. We sent back the items and got our money back. We did lose
out on shipping but very minor issue considering the value of some items
we bought were easily 2-4 times the store prices.
Buying from Ebay has it's risks but no different from the newsgroups or
any of the classified ads running on the internet. If a person is going
to make false statements about an item he or she is selling, they will
do so no matter what type of medium they choose. If you buy through the
internet, asks as many questions as you can think of...including the
right to return if not as advertised. Get the person's telephone number
and call them directly. It is well worth the effort and we consider the
cost of the phone call as cheap insurance, if the item is what you
really want.
David Foy wrote:
>
> SAME THING happened to me. I bid like a crazy guy until I finally got that
> elusive Kodak Instamatic 104 for $377.51, and when it arrived it was crap!
>
> --
> Hitting "reply-to" won't get a reply past the spam blocker, so please
> reply to: davi...@shaw.wave.ca
> David Foy, 1431 6th St NW, Calgary AB T2M 3E7 (403)282-0512
BGurfinkel
>elusive Kodak Instamatic 104 for $377.51, and when it arrived it was crap!
No mail transaction is ever safe.
But in E-bay's defense it must be stated that they keep track of members'
records - every
member can send feedback about any other member, whether positive or not.
I would not bid on any auction from a seller with negative feedback.
And if I got taken by an unscrupulous seller, as was the reader above, I would
certainly post negative feedback immediately.
Bob Gurfinkel
J Ames
have a history of positive or negative feedback. I won't buy from anyone
on e-bay who has no feedback or negative feedback. If I buy from this ng
I have no indication at all.
I have successfully bought 8 or 9 items from e-bay that I have been very
happy with. A camera, tripod, stereo receiver, etc. Not a single
problem, but they were all from people with good reputations.
Ray wrote:
> And this ng.
Phn001
but........
$450 FOR A B-R-O-W-N-I-E ????
Come on, are you for real? Is it even worth $4.50????
Gary Warren
return priveledges if not as described.
Gary Warren in SD
Chris Ho
Let's not pour salt on the wounds now. Personally, I have a great deal of
sympathy for anyone that has been ripped off (regardless of how foolish the
transaction may have been). It is very unfortunate that it is difficult to trust
anyone these days. It seems clear that "dbc," whoever this guy/gal is probably
posted the message in an effort to help others avoid the same bad experience. I
do not understand why you feel that it is necessary to slam this person in such
a malicious way.
Just my two cents. -Chris
William Lee wrote:
> dbc wrote in message <367670...@mail.jax.bellsouth.net>...
> >you have NO real idea the condition of what you purchase
> >
> >and once you get the item you may have been duped...
> >
> >I was when I bought a 'Brownie' camera for 450.00 it was junk and didn't
> >even work, but they sure and hell didn't say that when I went to put a
> >bid on it...
> >
> >"Oh it's in 100% working order..."
> >
> >
> >learn from my experience
>
> You sent $450 to someone you dont know for a camera you never seen? You are
> lucky you got anything back.
> I would never deal with some stranger I met on the internet and send them
> money. I bet you also leave the keys in your car and your front door to your
> house unlocked. I dont mean to slam you but you are a bit too trusting to be
> trading on the internet.
--
TO REPLY: PLEASE REMOVE THE "***NO SPAM***" MESSAGE FROM THE ADDRESS BOX!
Advertisers!
It is illegal to use this e-mail address for unsolicited commercial
e-mail per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I reserve the right
to assess a US $500 charge for reviewing & deleting each unsolicited
commercial e-mail.
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to my email address denotes
acceptance of these terms. Postings from me to UseNet neither grants
my consent to receive commercial emailings nor is intended to solicit
commercial email.
CHRIS HO
Email: chr...@teleport.com
(503) 768-3800
Bill
dbc <gb...@mail.jax.bellsouth.net> wrote in article
Steve Smith
newsgroup?
--
Steve Smith
ssmi...@flash.net
Bill <Bill.C...@thewhitehouse.gov> wrote in message
news:01be2865$45b8cee0$c8c9c9c9@mparis...
Bill Schaffel
also look at his or feedback While neither is a garuntee, a large number of
satisfactory feedback messages tell you that the person is legimate. Make
sure you provide negative feedback on this seller so others can be aware.
I have assembled an entire SLR system from ebay, had no problems, and found
that what I got was better than described in most cases.
Look at this group, you have even less protection because anyone can post an
item and there is no history of their dealings. Used camera stores, look at
how many people on the Photo newsgroups trash one camera store after another
for screwing them. Ebay is just a mirror of the rest of the world; mostly
decent people with a few sleezeballs here and there to ruin your day.
Bill S.
Steve
>
> SAME THING happened to me. I bid like a crazy guy until I finally got that
> elusive Kodak Instamatic 104 for $377.51, and when it arrived it was crap!
>
> Hitting "reply-to" won't get a reply past the spam blocker, so please
> reply to: davi...@shaw.wave.ca
> David Foy, 1431 6th St NW, Calgary AB T2M 3E7 (403)282-0512
> >
> >and once you get the item you may have been duped...
> >
> >I was when I bought a 'Brownie' camera for 450.00 it was junk and didn't
> >even work, but they sure and hell didn't say that when I went to put a
> >bid on it...
> >
> >"Oh it's in 100% working order..."
> >
> >
> >learn from my experience
You bought a Brownie for $450???!!!!!??
Say, I've got some really nice ocean-front property in Arizona that you
might be interested in....
:)
TimJimC
any Brownie could be worth $450, but I am not a collector.
I have had only positive experiances with E-bay, but I would like to point out
that the feedback system is not flawless. It would be so easy to "spike" your
own feedback. Watch out for a lot of possitive feedback in a short time, could
be spiked. You could have a bunch of friends do it or something. See if a lot
of the people leaving possitive feedback also have a high rating. Check to see
if they list tend to have a lot of matches on it. And remember, you can't
please all of the people all of the time, even the best buyers and sellers get
an occasional negitive feedback. I have one on mine because I screwed up and
never sent payment on an item, an honest mistake, but, I must pay the price.
A lot can be said to how to research a seller BEFORE you bid. Play the game
with great care. Good luck.
Tim
Willem-Jan Markerink
J Ames <mj...@usa.net.nospam> wrote:
>I would actually rather buy from e-bay than this ng. On e-bay at least I
>have a history of positive or negative feedback. I won't buy from anyone
>on e-bay who has no feedback or negative feedback. If I buy from this ng
>I have no indication at all.
You obviously have missed the threads where people stated that they where
afraid of adding negative comment, because it could affect their selling
business on Ebay. And also missed the thread where Ebay sided with the
seller, and removed negative comment.
You also obviously have never heard about Dejanews.
The latter is a *far* better analyzing tool about someones character than
second-hand reactions.
--
Bye,
Willem-Jan Markerink
The desire to understand
is sometimes far less intelligent than
the inability to understand
<w.j.ma...@a1.nl>
[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]
ed romney
dealers, camera stores and magazines..Look up the notorious NY camera
stores, Shutterbug, Bob Shell, Ebay and dealers you are considering trading
with....even old Ed Romney. It is fascinating. Find Deja with Yahoo or
whatever. Yours faithfully, Ed Romney
John Stewart
J Ames
negative feedback because I have no selling business on e-bay. I am a buyer,
and that's the perspective we were talking about.
I have also heard of Dejanews.. and while you can find important information,
it can sometimes be a tedious wading through the messages...
Anyway, I would buy from either this ng or e-bay given the right
circumstances. I prefer e-bay in many cases, but I will certainly admit there
are far more ignorant bidders (and sellers) there than buyers here.
As a matter of fact, I got sort of irate just yesterday at someone on there
selling a canon 85mm 1.8 EOS with a reserve of about $15 over the new gray
market price at B&H. He justifies this because it's "Strictly USA", as if
there were a difference in the products once the warranty was expired.
Hmmm... used USA with no warranty.. identical gray market with 1 yr warranty
through B&H for less money..
Patrick White
>I would actually rather buy from e-bay than this ng. On e-bay at least I
>have a history of positive or negative feedback. I won't buy from anyone
>on e-bay who has no feedback or negative feedback. If I buy from this ng
>I have no indication at all.
Look them up on dejanews (ng or eBay purchases). If they haven't
changed their login, and are using the same name, then you might find
all sorts of stuff about them and posted by them that can help you get a
better feel for whether you want to deal with them or not.
EBay makes it just a little too easy to have bad feedback _removed_
in my opinion.
>I have successfully bought 8 or 9 items from e-bay that I have been very
>happy with. A camera, tripod, stereo receiver, etc. Not a single
>problem, but they were all from people with good reputations.
>> > I dont mean to slam you but you are a bit too trusting to be
>> > trading on the internet.
--
Pat White (work: patbob...@sequent.com, (503) 578-3463)
Internet==Net of 1000 lies. (adapted from Verner Vinge's
_A Fire Upon The Deep_)
TimJimC
Tim
William Lee
TimJimC wrote in message <19981216222919...@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
>No feedback should be removable!! That stinks, I did miss that thread!!
>Tim
>
But Tim, what if some troll from the newsgroup gets on ebay and starts
leaving negative feedback about you?
Would it not stink to have the bogus information removed?
There are sellers who will not deal with bidders who have negative feedback.
This has happened and if the feedback does not use profanity ebay is very
reluctant to remove it.
I saw one negitive feedback from a seller complaining that he got two
payments from the buyer and it was a extra work to return the second one.
The buyer sent the second payment after the seller asked where the payment
was. The seller did not consider that it might be held up in the mail. The
buyer sent a second check and got negitive feedback for it .... that can
never be removed from his record. THAT STINKS!
Terry Danks
wrote:
>As a matter of fact, I got sort of irate just yesterday at someone on there
>selling a canon 85mm 1.8 EOS with a reserve of about $15 over the new gray
>market price at B&H. He justifies this because it's "Strictly USA", as if
>there were a difference in the products once the warranty was expired.
>Hmmm... used USA with no warranty.. identical gray market with 1 yr warranty
>through B&H for less money..
>
Nothing unusual about this on ebay . . .it's why sellers love it!
Terry Danks
Nova Scotia
CANADA
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/danksta/home.htm
David Foy
correctly points to DejaNews for the power it hands you in making your
assessment. I don't share his negativity about eBay's feedback mechanism.
I've been able to post truthful negatives and cautionary neutrals without
suffering retaliation. I also posted a careless and unwarranted negative
there once, early on, and had a scrap over it, which I deserved. I think
when it's used properly it's worthwhile. I might add that I've had many eBay
transactions, but never had a successful transaction in this newsgroup. I
guess I have the auction-type personality, and others have the
negotiator-type personality. I think there's a place for both.
--
Hitting "reply-to" won't get a reply past the spam blocker, so please
reply to: davi...@shaw.wave.ca
David Foy, 1431 6th St NW, Calgary AB T2M 3E7 (403)282-0512
Willem-Jan Markerink wrote in message <757t9t$bcr$4...@news.a1.nl>...
>In article <3676A7FE...@usa.net.nospam>,
> J Ames <mj...@usa.net.nospam> wrote:
>>I would actually rather buy from e-bay than this ng. On e-bay at least I
>>have a history of positive or negative feedback. I won't buy from anyone
>>on e-bay who has no feedback or negative feedback. If I buy from this ng
>>I have no indication at all.
>
David Foy
interpreted, just like DejaNews results are there to be interpreted. Someone
can post unfair comments in either place, and all you can do is post a
rebuttal.
Also, my understanding is that eBay's policy of not removing or editing
feedback came about after someone sued them or took them to court or
something -- maybe it was lawyer's advice subsequent to someone else being
sued. I'm trying to remember something from one of their policy statements
a couple of years ago, and undoubtedly don't have the details right. The
judgement was they were required to let feedback stand, with only the most
extreme exceptions.
As an aside, I believe it is a misconception that sellers won't deal with
buyers who have negative feedback. I believe you need a high percentage of
negative feedback, or hidden feedback, before sellers start refusing your
bids.
--
Hitting "reply-to" won't get a reply past the spam blocker, so please
reply to: davi...@shaw.wave.ca
David Foy, 1431 6th St NW, Calgary AB T2M 3E7 (403)282-0512
William Lee wrote in message <75attu$p3m$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>...
David Foy
extreme circumstances. Please post current information about how and when
eBay removes feedback. Thanks.
--
Hitting "reply-to" won't get a reply past the spam blocker, so please
reply to: davi...@shaw.wave.ca
David Foy, 1431 6th St NW, Calgary AB T2M 3E7 (403)282-0512
Patrick White wrote in message <759n8o$h...@scel.sequent.com>...
>In <3676A7FE...@usa.net.nospam> J Ames <mj...@usa.net.nospam> writes:
>>I would actually rather buy from e-bay than this ng. On e-bay at least I
>>have a history of positive or negative feedback. I won't buy from anyone
>>on e-bay who has no feedback or negative feedback. If I buy from this ng
>>I have no indication at all.
>
John Godwin
link
http://db.photo.net/neighbor/one-category.tcl?subcategory_1=Camera%20Shops
ed romney wrote:
> I agree ... I recommend a DejaNews search highly to check background of
> dealers, camera stores and magazines..Look up the notorious NY camera
> stores, Shutterbug, Bob Shell, Ebay and dealers you are considering trading
> with....even old Ed Romney. It is fascinating. Find Deja with Yahoo or
> whatever. Yours faithfully, Ed Romney
>
> Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
>
> > In article <3676A7FE...@usa.net.nospam>,
> > J Ames <mj...@usa.net.nospam> wrote:
> > >I would actually rather buy from e-bay than this ng. On e-bay at least I
> > >have a history of positive or negative feedback. I won't buy from anyone
> > >on e-bay who has no feedback or negative feedback. If I buy from this ng
> > >I have no indication at all.
> >
Harry Brown
Negative feedback seems to be seldom used.. because of "backlash". I
found this out after 2 1/2 years buying/selling literally hundreds of
items. The first person to renege on a transaction perturbed me, to put
it mildly. I hesitated, then posted negative feedback. Of course, he
retaliated, with a negative post to me.
He also immediately deleted his email address.. strange behavior, but he
was also brand new on eBay.
Caveat emptor still applies.....
J Ames wrote:
>
> I would actually rather buy from e-bay than this ng. On e-bay at least I
> have a history of positive or negative feedback. I won't buy from anyone
> on e-bay who has no feedback or negative feedback. If I buy from this ng
> I have no indication at all.
>
> I have successfully bought 8 or 9 items from e-bay that I have been very
> happy with. A camera, tripod, stereo receiver, etc. Not a single
> problem, but they were all from people with good reputations.
>
> Ray wrote:
>
> > And this ng.
> >
WalterOsadciw
> in my opinion.
>
I didn't know eBay allowed feedback to be removed. How?
Walter
ed romney
on EBAY, or in this news group... and in stores, and learn to ID
cameras correctly... is with the very fine 600 page <McKeown's Price
Guide to Antique and Classic Cameras>. It covers quite recent cameras
too.... as late as the Nikon N2020 AF. The book costs about $60 and is
a reference book...so it may be better to persuade your university or
public library to buy it than order it yourself. It is ordered from
Centennial Photo, Grantsburg WI 54840. I advertise in it and my ad
there really sells worldwide. Camera dealers, antique stores and pawn
shops usually have this book , which is one reason it is hard to find
really valuable cameras at low prices in stores any more. From this book
you will see that most Kodak Brownies are worth less than $10, not
$450, for example!!! Best wishes.. Ed Romney http://www.edromney.com
Len
the sellers and make a personal assessment of their sincerity. I've also
turned down offers from people who did not seem that they would take care of
equipment that I was selling.
len
David Foy wrote:
> Assessing someone's reputation is part of the process, and Willem-Jan
> correctly points to DejaNews for the power it hands you in making your
> assessment. I don't share his negativity about eBay's feedback mechanism.
> I've been able to post truthful negatives and cautionary neutrals without
> suffering retaliation. I also posted a careless and unwarranted negative
> there once, early on, and had a scrap over it, which I deserved. I think
> when it's used properly it's worthwhile. I might add that I've had many eBay
> transactions, but never had a successful transaction in this newsgroup. I
> guess I have the auction-type personality, and others have the
> negotiator-type personality. I think there's a place for both.
>
> --
> Hitting "reply-to" won't get a reply past the spam blocker, so please
> reply to: davi...@shaw.wave.ca
> David Foy, 1431 6th St NW, Calgary AB T2M 3E7 (403)282-0512
> Willem-Jan Markerink wrote in message <757t9t$bcr$4...@news.a1.nl>...
> >In article <3676A7FE...@usa.net.nospam>,
> > J Ames <mj...@usa.net.nospam> wrote:
> >>I would actually rather buy from e-bay than this ng. On e-bay at least I
> >>have a history of positive or negative feedback. I won't buy from anyone
> >>on e-bay who has no feedback or negative feedback. If I buy from this ng
> >>I have no indication at all.
> >
Eosman
In article <367A4D9E...@edromney.com>, ed romney <rom...@edromney.com>
writes:
>The best way photographers can protect themselves against price gouging
>on EBAY...
Prices on ebay are set by the bidder. If a person has been price gouged on
ebay then they gouged themselves. The seller has little control over the price
( shill bidding conspiracies aside ).
In a nutshell, the buyer has the ultimate responsibility for establishing the
value of an item.
Cary F. Yelin
game at e-bay. I have seen items bid up well beyond their worth, supposedly sold,
and then offered again--conclusive evidence, I would think, that not all the bids
are for real. Certainly, there cannot be that many bid winners who reneg on their
purchases. Therefore, be wary. Obviously, many people get caught up in the frenzy
of the auction, and that is too bad, but it also happens at house auctions,
Sothebys, etc.
Henry
If you beleive that "shills" on EBAY, how do explain the fact that you
can view a list of bidders and the amount bid shown after the auction is
over?
Colyn
wrote:
>The best way photographers can protect themselves against price gouging
>on EBAY, or in this news group... and in stores
>
Ed, if a person is willing to pay the high price on e-bay or this
group, then it cannot be considered price gouging.. If I think the
price is too high, I either make an offer or don't buy....... It's
that simple.......
skgrimes
necessarily bad, but enough to alert)
2. Being contacted by the seller after an auction in
which the reserve price wasn't/t met but offering to negotiate a sale
anyway.
3.. Being contacted by a seller saying: "The high
bidder reneged, do you want the item at your high bid?" (Especially if the
winning bid was from a free E-mail address)
I would not buy from case #3 under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE and no matter how badly
I wanted the item.
In all these cases there is no obligation from the bidder to buy anything
and he can simply click away from any of these situations as simply as
hanging up on unsolicited phone calls. SKG
--
--- S.K. Grimes -- Feinmechanik ----
--Machine work for photographers
--Lenses fitted to shutters, iris scales engraved
http://www.skgrimes.com
(updated 12-5-98)
Cary F. Yelin wrote in message <367AA0B9...@worldnet.att.net>...
>It is important for would-be bidders to recognize that shills are a part of
the
>game at e-bay. I have seen items bid up well beyond their worth,
supposedly sold,
>and then offered again--conclusive evidence, I would think, that not all
the bids
>are for real. Certainly, there cannot be that many bid winners who reneg
on their
>purchases. Therefore, be wary. Obviously, many people get caught up in
the frenzy
>of the auction, and that is too bad, but it also happens at house auctions,
>Sothebys, etc.
>
>Eosman wrote:
>
>> In article <367A4D9E...@edromney.com>, ed romney
<rom...@edromney.com>
>> writes:
>>
>> >The best way photographers can protect themselves against price gouging
Joshua_Putnam
>Cary F. Yelin wrote:
>>
>> It is important for would-be bidders to recognize that shills are a part of the
>> game at e-bay. I have seen items bid up well beyond their worth, supposedly sold,
>> and then offered again--conclusive evidence, I would think, that not all the bids
>> are for real. Certainly, there cannot be that many bid winners who reneg on their
>> purchases.
>If you beleive that "shills" on EBAY, how do explain the fact that you
>can view a list of bidders and the amount bid shown after the auction is
>over?
I've only sold a few items on Ebay, but of three buyers last
month, one seems to have simply vanished after saying the check
was in the mail -- stopped returning email, no sign of payment.
And I'd hardly say it was a case of overbidding, $2 for a book.
I've also noticed quite a few people selling more than one of an
item, but selling them serially, rather than in a Dutch auction,
perhaps to keep the apparent supply smaller and encourage more
competitive bidding.
--
Jo...@WolfeNet.com is Joshua Putnam / P.O. Box 13220 / Burton, WA 98013
"My other bike is a car."
http://www.wolfenet.com/~josh/
J T Gill
>>The best way photographers can protect themselves against price gouging
>>on EBAY...
>Prices on ebay are set by the bidder. If a person has been price gouged on
>ebay then they gouged themselves. The seller has little control over the
>price
>( shill bidding conspiracies aside ).
>In a nutshell, the buyer has the ultimate responsibility for establishing the
>value of an item.
Even with shill bidding, the person doing the bidding is the only one in
control of gouging.
JT
dor...@ibm.net
reserve and the seller offering it to the bidder at the bidder's bid?
Sounds like good business sense to me. The buyer was willing to pay that
price, wasn't he?
skgrimes wrote:
>
> Watch out for: `1. Competing bidders using free E-mail addresses. (Not
> necessarily bad, but enough to alert)
>
> 2. Being contacted by the seller after an auction in
> which the reserve price wasn't/t met but offering to negotiate a sale
> anyway.
> 3.. Being contacted by a seller saying: "The high
> bidder reneged, do you want the item at your high bid?" (Especially if the
> winning bid was from a free E-mail address)
>
> I would not buy from case #3 under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE and no matter how badly
> I wanted the item.
>
> In all these cases there is no obligation from the bidder to buy anything
> and he can simply click away from any of these situations as simply as
> hanging up on unsolicited phone calls. SKG
>
> --
> --- S.K. Grimes -- Feinmechanik ----
>
> --Machine work for photographers
> --Lenses fitted to shutters, iris scales engraved
> http://www.skgrimes.com
> (updated 12-5-98)
>
> Cary F. Yelin wrote in message <367AA0B9...@worldnet.att.net>...
> >It is important for would-be bidders to recognize that shills are a part of
> the
> >game at e-bay. I have seen items bid up well beyond their worth,
> supposedly sold,
> >and then offered again--conclusive evidence, I would think, that not all
> the bids
> >are for real. Certainly, there cannot be that many bid winners who reneg
> on their
> >purchases. Therefore, be wary. Obviously, many people get caught up in
> the frenzy
> >of the auction, and that is too bad, but it also happens at house auctions,
> >Sothebys, etc.
> >
> >Eosman wrote:
> >
Henry
>
> In <367AB0...@mindspring.com> Henry <her...@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> >Cary F. Yelin wrote:
> >>
> >> game at e-bay. I have seen items bid up well beyond their worth, supposedly sold,
> >> and then offered again--conclusive evidence, I would think, that not all the bids
> >> are for real. Certainly, there cannot be that many bid winners who reneg on their
> >> purchases.
>
> >can view a list of bidders and the amount bid shown after the auction is
> >over?
>
> I've only sold a few items on Ebay, but of three buyers last
> month, one seems to have simply vanished after saying the check
> was in the mail -- stopped returning email, no sign of payment.
> And I'd hardly say it was a case of overbidding, $2 for a book.
>
> I've also noticed quite a few people selling more than one of an
> item, but selling them serially, rather than in a Dutch auction,
> perhaps to keep the apparent supply smaller and encourage more
> competitive bidding.
>
> --
>
> Jo...@WolfeNet.com is Joshua Putnam / P.O. Box 13220 / Burton, WA 98013
> "My other bike is a car."
> http://www.wolfenet.com/~josh/
1. If someone defaults on a bid you can leave a negative comment to warn
other sellers.
2. If I had a few items that are same or similar, I might place
individual bids.
Henry
ed romney
asked. The other replied, " Nope, but I swapped him for two $500
cats!" A lot of this crap is actually done for churning the
market..Best wishes.. Ed Romney http://www.edromney.com
skgrimes
artificially high reserve on an item is also a trick to avoid paying the
e-bay commission since you can say it didn't sell. *If *(and that's a big
if) that's the case then you are already dealing with someone whose ethics
may not be on the up and up. After all, if he was willing to sell for a
lower price he should have put a lower reserve. It also puts the seller in
a negotiating position with the bidder (an eBay is a lot about avoiding
negotiation and haggling) with the proposition of "My reserve was 100.00
(which you have to just believe) and you bid 50 how about we split the
difference" or some such.
--
--- S.K. Grimes -- Feinmechanik ----
--Machine work for photographers
--Lenses fitted to shutters, iris scales engraved
http://www.skgrimes.com
(updated 12-5-98)
dor...@ibm.net wrote in message <367AEC...@ibm.net>...
>> >It is important for would-be bidders to recognize that shills are a part
of
>> the
>> >game at e-bay. I have seen items bid up well beyond their worth,
>> supposedly sold,
>> >and then offered again--conclusive evidence, I would think, that not all
>> the bids
>> >are for real. Certainly, there cannot be that many bid winners who
reneg
>> on their
dor...@ibm.net
what they are selling and what a reasonable reserve might be. Just look
at the descriptions of some items. They'll sell a lens and not say what
camera it fits. Sort of like saying "I have a 1995 coupe for sale."
The folks who set outrageous prices usually don't get any bids, or if
they do, they are from, most often, clueless individuals who have no
sense of the market. If there is something I'm interested in and don't
meet the reserve, sometimes I'll e-mail the seller and make what I
believe is a reasonable offer. Conversely, I have no problem with seller
contacting me.
I've bought about 40 items through ebay and probably about 10 through
this newsgroup. I've also sold a number of items through this newsgroup,
photo.net and Yahoo Auction. In general, I'm pretty satisfied with the
transactions and my buyers seem pretty satisfied, as evidenced by the
comments on neighbor-to-neighbor.
There is some scum on ebay just as there is some scum selling through
RPM; I'll grant you that. But we as buyers set the prices - otherwise
there cannot be a market.
I'll tell you one thing I stay away from on ebay and that is private
auctions where you can't see who is bidding, the bid prices or the
feedback to the sellers.
One more thing: in every circumstance where I told the seller I was
dissatisfied with the item sold to me, both here and on ebay, I've
gotten a full refund or some other compensation. That's something you
are not going to get from nine out of ten mail order houses.
You pays your money and you take your chances!
Chris Eve
for the same person to have more than one "identity" on eBay, thereby
allowing them to "bid" against themselves. IF this is the case, then no
negative feedback will be posted (obviously), indeed, both identities may
conduct "real" business as well and thereby both have good feedback
ratings. It's still a case of bidding to what you want to spend and no
further.
Henry <her...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<367AB0...@mindspring.com>...
Charles F Seyferlich
>
> Cary F. Yelin wrote:
> >
> > It is important for would-be bidders to recognize that shills are a part of the
> > game at e-bay. I have seen items bid up well beyond their worth, supposedly sold,
> > and then offered again--conclusive evidence, I would think, that not all the bids
> > are for real. Certainly, there cannot be that many bid winners who reneg on their
> > purchases. Therefore, be wary. Obviously, many people get caught up in the frenzy
> > of the auction, and that is too bad, but it also happens at house auctions,
> > Sothebys, etc.
> >
> > Eosman wrote:
> >
> > > In article <367A4D9E...@edromney.com>, ed romney <rom...@edromney.com>
> > > writes:
> > >
> > > >The best way photographers can protect themselves against price gouging
> > > >on EBAY...
> > >
> > > Prices on ebay are set by the bidder. If a person has been price gouged on
> > > ebay then they gouged themselves. The seller has little control over the price
> > > ( shill bidding conspiracies aside ).
> > >
> > > In a nutshell, the buyer has the ultimate responsibility for establishing the
> > > value of an item.
>
> can view a list of bidders and the amount bid shown after the auction is
> over?
I have seen at least on example of a "shill" on ebay (not on a photo
item).
I wondered at the way bidding was going on a item (it was high) so I
looked at email addresses of seller and bidders. The seller and three
bidders all had 0 (zero) feed back and all were AOL. All started on eBay
the same day. All of this made me a little suspicious so I looked the
four names up on AOL - two had no profile, but the other two were the
same person (one was the seller and one was a bidder). I looked at a
second auction that the same seller was running and one of the bidders
from first auction was also a bidder (not the one with same AOL
profile).
I emailed eBay with my findings.
So -- it is possible for a shill to operate on eBay. This AOL guy made
it a little too open. I suspect a sneakier soul would use different
ISP's, including one at school or work.
Ebay rules allow the seller to make one bid on his own sale (but not if
it is a reserve sale). I have never done this, but it is allowed.
Joshua_Putnam
>I've only sold a few items on Ebay, but of three buyers last
>month, one seems to have simply vanished after saying the check
>was in the mail -- stopped returning email, no sign of payment.
>And I'd hardly say it was a case of overbidding, $2 for a book.
Needless to say, less than an hour after posting that, I got
email from the buyer, and he's sending payment after the first
one apparently got lost in the mail. Given that most sellers on
ebay demand payment within ten days or less, and it's been quite
a bit longer than that in this case, I suspect most sellers would
have re-listed the items.
Renee Rubin and Michael Delesantro
about. I have just skipped through 40 or so messages and only two have
been items for sale.
Why is everyone so obsessed with ebay this and ebay that, Tim somebody
or other, real reasons for Romney and all the other stuff? I think most
of these posts should be private discussions and respectfully suggest
that you hit the "reply to: mail" button instead of the "reply to: news"
button next time.
Thanks.
Michael
JCPERE
a bid in at the last second you have to put in unrealistic max bids for items
you really want. And then hope the last second bidders give up. Most times I
just get outbid in the last minute. Are these guys using some kind of bidding
software or do you just have to be there if your really interested?
Chuck
Steve Smith
I will survive.
--
Steve Smith
ssmi...@flash.net
JCPERE <jcp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19981219072351...@ng11.aol.com...
Max
>
> I lost out on a SB-27 in the last minute by $0.01. pissed me off. oh well,
> I will survive.
>
Are you saying what you did was a smart thing, or a stupid thing?
MAX
Steve Smith
--
Steve Smith
ssmi...@flash.net
Max <SR...@USAF.org> wrote in message news:367BD9...@USAF.org...
Buyens
pc's clock
with the ebay clock and then automatically puts the bid in at the last
second. It's almost
like cheating....ebay isn't real crazy about it, as too many bids at once
crashes their
servers. I've seen some discussion of outlawing it, but don't know the
current status.
Dave Buyens
JCPERE wrote in message <19981219072351...@ng11.aol.com>...
John Stewart
the
>game at e-bay. I have seen items bid up well beyond their worth,
supposedly sold,
>and then offered again--conclusive evidence, I would think, that not all
the bids
>are for real.
Not really. I have sold stuff on eBay and had bi\uers get cold feet,
requiring relisting and reselling. Don't know much abut shills, though.
John
skgrimes
is a five minute (or whatever) "quiet time" after the last bid, the auction
would be extended if necessary to achieve this. It would keep being
extended until there is a five minute wait after the last bid. (And yes,
this would mean that in theory the auction could go on forever, but that
wouldn't happen) This would be like a live auctioneer looking around the
gallery saying "are you all done, sure, going once etc" In a live auction
the auctioneer does not time the end of the auction by a stopwatch, but uses
the technique of "quiet time" at the end.
This has been suggested repeatedly to eBay but the more people who keep
suggesting it will make it a more viable solution. I understand that they
say its a good idea but "would be difficult to write the code"
I suggest anyone interested in this and playing eBay keep putting this
suggestion forward.
I think if they offered me $5 million I could have the code in six months or
so. SKG
--
--- S.K. Grimes -- Feinmechanik ----
--Machine work for photographers
--Lenses fitted to shutters, iris scales engraved
http://www.skgrimes.com
(updated 12-5-98)
Buyens wrote in message ...
Peter Mikalajunas
>The cure for "sniping" on eBay is: Ebay must change the site so that there
>is a five minute (or whatever) "quiet time" after the last bid, the auction
>would be extended if necessary to achieve this. It would keep being
>extended until there is a five minute wait after the last bid. (And yes,
>this would mean that in theory the auction could go on forever, but that
>wouldn't happen) This would be like a live auctioneer looking around the
>gallery saying "are you all done, sure, going once etc" In a live auction
>the auctioneer does not time the end of the auction by a stopwatch, but uses
>the technique of "quiet time" at the end.
>
>This has been suggested repeatedly to eBay but the more people who keep
>suggesting it will make it a more viable solution. I understand that they
>say its a good idea but "would be difficult to write the code"
>
>I suggest anyone interested in this and playing eBay keep putting this
>suggestion forward.
>
>I think if they offered me $5 million I could have the code in six months or
>so. SKG
Steve, the code would take an hour to write and less than a week of testing
before moving into production.
However, I like your way better!
They have in the past suggested that if they did implement such a thing, they
would allow the seller to chose.
In fact, they have worked up, for their internal use, a whole psychology of
their auction site. They realize that people over-pay simply because they do
not want to lose. To that end, the last second snipe increases their revenue
stream....
Chuck Hoffman
>
> (snip) As a matter of fact, I got sort of irate just yesterday at someone on there
> selling a canon 85mm 1.8 EOS with a reserve of about $15 over the new gray
> market price at B&H. He justifies this because it's "Strictly USA"
What gives you the right to be irate? It's his lens and he can put any
reserve on it he wants. If you don't like his price, don't bid.
I frequently submit bids on eBay. If I get outbid for an item, c'est la
vie. Someone else had a different idea of its value.
--
Chuck Hoffman
J Ames
the benefit of uninformed consumers. I have no problem with that. This particular seller
knew the value of the lens (as witnessed by his quoting the B&H USA price) and still
made a reserve higher than the new price for the lens. That means he's looking *only*
for uninformed consumers...
And, I have the "right" to be irate whether it's rational or not. ;-)
John Stewart
lasptop for $40.
Later, when I ws selling a parts computer, the high bidder got cold feet, so
I contacted the second highest bidder. Seems normal to me.
John
skgrimes wrote in message <75efan$4f9$1...@strato.ultra.net>...
>Watch out for: `1. Competing bidders using free E-mail addresses. (Not
>necessarily bad, but enough to alert)
>
> 2. Being contacted by the seller after an auction in
>which the reserve price wasn't/t met but offering to negotiate a sale
>anyway.
> 3.. Being contacted by a seller saying: "The high
>bidder reneged, do you want the item at your high bid?" (Especially if the
>winning bid was from a free E-mail address)
>
>I would not buy from case #3 under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE and no matter how badly
>I wanted the item.
>
>In all these cases there is no obligation from the bidder to buy anything
>and he can simply click away from any of these situations as simply as
>hanging up on unsolicited phone calls. SKG
>
>
>--
> --- S.K. Grimes -- Feinmechanik ----
>
> --Machine work for photographers
> --Lenses fitted to shutters, iris scales engraved
> http://www.skgrimes.com
> (updated 12-5-98)
>
>Cary F. Yelin wrote in message <367AA0B9...@worldnet.att.net>...
>>It is important for would-be bidders to recognize that shills are a part
of
>the
>>game at e-bay. I have seen items bid up well beyond their worth,
>supposedly sold,
>>and then offered again--conclusive evidence, I would think, that not all
>the bids
wcm...@ibm.net
>
> I've been given to believe, completely unofficially, that it's not unknown
> for the same person to have more than one "identity" on eBay, thereby
> allowing them to "bid" against themselves. IF this is the case, then no
> negative feedback will be posted (obviously), indeed, both identities may
> conduct "real" business as well and thereby both have good feedback
> ratings. It's still a case of bidding to what you want to spend and no
> further.
>
> Henry <her...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
> <367AB0...@mindspring.com>...
> >
> > can view a list of bidders and the amount bid shown after the auction is
> > over?
> >
This is called, in auction parlance, "buy bidding". It probably does go
on in ebay, as it does in many auctions. Bottom line, as they say, is
this: The way to protect yourself is to know the value of what you're
bidding on. Stop bidding if the price gets unreasonable. Read, window
shop, ask -- you can send questions to the seller about condition, etc.
I've found that the answers received are generally pretty accurate
descriptions. I've sold stuff thru ebay and usually got a little better
price than I'd have gotten from a dealer. The buyers usually got a
little better price than they would have paid a dealer. Most told me the
equipment was in better condition than they thought it would be in. I've
also got good deals ( not "steals" ) buying thru ebay. Like any other
auction, you have to exercise a little self-discipline.
Bill Martin
chuckh...@my-dejanews.com
"J T Gill" <jtg...@mis.net> wrote:
>
> Even with shill bidding, the person doing the bidding is the only one in
> control of gouging.
You're exactly right. The other bidder(s) (informed or not) can pull out any
time they want in order to keep from being gouged. When there are no
competing bids, the price cannot continue to increase.
This truly is the free market at work. It's only the attitude of "I gotta
have this item" that perpetuates gouging.
Chuck Hoffman
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Joshua_Putnam
>skgrimes wrote:
>>
>> Watch out for: `1. Competing bidders using free E-mail addresses. (Not
>> necessarily bad, but enough to alert)
>>
>> 2. Being contacted by the seller after an auction in
>> which the reserve price wasn't/t met but offering to negotiate a sale
>> anyway.
>> 3.. Being contacted by a seller saying: "The high
>> bidder reneged, do you want the item at your high bid?" (Especially if the
>> winning bid was from a free E-mail address)
>>
>> I would not buy from case #3 under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE and no matter how badly
>> I wanted the item.
>So what is wrong with the seller contacting someone who did not meet the
>reserve and the seller offering it to the bidder at the bidder's bid?
>Sounds like good business sense to me. The buyer was willing to pay that
>price, wasn't he?
I've gotten some good deals off of completed reserve auctions
where the reserve wasn't met -- if I see an auction that ended
well below what I'd be willing to pay for the item, I'll email
the seller and ask what he would be willing to take for it, and
then I'm free to pay it or not if the reserve is a reasonable
price.
Similarly, if I bid on something but the auction never hits the
reserve price, and if I'd be willing to pay more than I had bid
at auction, I see nothing wrong with trying to negotiate a
private, non-acution transaction if the seller doesn't want to
re-list the item.
Clearly, if you think you're getting ripped off in no.3, you
should blame whoever it was that forced you to put in an
unreasonably high maximum bid. The important thing is to know
what something is worth *to* *you* and never submit a bid so high
that if it wins you'll think you're paying too much.
skgrimes
the price.
And, naturally, every responsible participant should have in mind the price
he could pay; in a fair auction he may in fact pay far less than that price.
The nature of a corrupt auction, such as, possibly and not necessarily
always, one in which the high bidder is a reneger, (and, incidentally many
sharp negotiated sales) is to find out just how much the "pigeon" is willing
to pay. I put it that a reneging high bidder is contributing evidence *not
proof* that the "pigeon" has tipped his hand as to what he'll bear, as
opposed to bid up in a fair auction. Its up to the bidder to watch out for
himself. SKG
--
--- S.K. Grimes -- Feinmechanik ----
--Machine work for photographers
--Lenses fitted to shutters, iris scales engraved
http://www.skgrimes.com
(updated 12-5-98)
Joshua_Putnam wrote in message <75lup8$j0t$1...@sparky.wolfe.net>...
skgrimes
of the auction process designed to figure out "Well, How much You Got?" And
one way of doing that is to have a straw bidder run it up the renege and go
after the hapless sap who has tipped his hand to his maximum price. Its not
that I an not willing to pay my maximum price its that I don't want my
maximum price extracted in a corrupted way.
After all, if I'm the only one in the world stupid enough to want to pay
$100.00 for and item no other legitimate bidder will go more than $25.00 for
its up to me to be on guard for a shill bidder running the bid up to
$110.00, and reneging to allow me the bargain of $100.00 (Which, after all
I wouldn't have bid if I wasn't willing to pay it)
And I'm saying a way to avoid this is to never deal when the high bidder has
reneged.
(I use "corrupt" without moral judgement here like one would use it about a
computer program file)
--
--- S.K. Grimes -- Feinmechanik ----
--Machine work for photographers
--Lenses fitted to shutters, iris scales engraved
http://www.skgrimes.com
(updated 12-5-98)
chuckh...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<75m04k$dle$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Mac Breck
than happy with (1. restraightened Nikon HN-21 lenshood. Was told it only
had a little paint missing. 2. 50 f/1.4 AIS Nikkor with a too tight an
f/stop ring.).
Also, I'm proportionately more careful as the
price of the item goes up.
Mac
J Ames wrote in message <3676A7FE...@usa.net.nospam>...
>I would actually rather buy from e-bay than this ng. On e-bay at least I
>have a history of positive or negative feedback. I won't buy from anyone
>on e-bay who has no feedback or negative feedback. If I buy from this ng
>I have no indication at all.
>
>I have successfully bought 8 or 9 items from e-bay that I have been very
>happy with. A camera, tripod, stereo receiver, etc. Not a single
>problem, but they were all from people with good reputations.
Chuck Hoffman
>
> But my point is that a shill bit is NOT a competing bid.
MY point is the way to defeat a shill is not to bid against him/her.
You bid to the maximum you are willing to pay (or the fair market value)
and then drop out. You are in control...it's your choice.
If the seller contacts you after the fact, you may choose to offer your
max -- or less -- again, its your choice. If the only competing bids
are those of the shill, the seller is hung out on the price and you are
in control unless he/she chooses not to sell.
There is little honor in business. The devices retailers use to entice
buyers into paying more than they should are legend. What makes you
thing auctions are any different?
I may be bidding against a shill on eBay right now. The "bidder" has no
feedback, his/her ID was issued today and I can't find any information
anywhere about the e-mail address. If the bidding exceeds my max, I'll
drop out. I'd like to have the item -- at a good price -- but I won't
die if I have to pay my max or if it doesn't work out at all.
--
Chuck Hoffman
Chris Jacobs
Don't bid if you like the reserve. Don't get irate, just pass on by! I
have had great success buying gear on eBay, and also have sold items. I
never bid over the used market price, and have sold many good items for
fair prices. I have had much less success buying from used camera
dealers. Have you ever checked the prices at KEH?
Chris Jacobs
ACR
I sold a $1600 camera to a high bidder on eBay and this jerk, John Stewart,
called my customer to try and kill the deal by putting mistrust in my high
bidder's mind about me. Here is a letter I got from my customer after John
Stewart stuck his unwanted nose in my business transaction. (And remember,
the camera was already sold. He had no business contacting my customer for
any reason.):
*********************
Zane Kori,
I appreciate your response. Sorry about the misunderstanding. I hope
I did not offend you by my mistrust, but this is the first time purchasing
anything through Ebay. I had also received a message from someone who told
me to be careful making any deal...
*********************
That *someone* was none other than our very own John Stewart who sells in
this news group. It seems he wanted the camera too, and killed the deal out
of revenge. I strongly suggest that no one do business with this jerk who
sticks his nose in other peoples business deals. How would anyone in this
news groups feel if John Stewart contacted your customer and killed a
$1600.00 deal of yours?
If anyone does not like my posting don't contact me. The title on this
posting plainly stated the content. No one forced you to read it. Also, you
might want to write John Stewart and ask him to send me a message, stating
that he will keep his big nose out of my business dealings and these
postings of mine will stop immediately. If he ever costs you to lose a $1600
sale, you will know how I feel about him.
A note to John Stewart:
John
I will keep posting this notice on *everything* you sell to the people in
this news group *until you send me an e-mail* telling me that you will
*never* interfere in any of my business transactions again. (That's not much
to ask, is it John? One little two line e-mail saying you will stay out of
my business affairs.) If you want to interfere in someone else's deal in
this news groups go ahead, but not mine. I still can't believe you did it,
what nerve... who in the hell do you think you are butting into another
persons business deals? You must really be a all time loser to pull a stunt
like that and then try to justify it.
Zane Kori
Abilene, Texas
*
John Stewart wrote in message ...
ACR
*********************
Zane Kori
Abilene, Texas
>Obviously a troll. Ignore.
>
>
>dbc wrote in message <367670...@mail.jax.bellsouth.net>...
>>you have NO real idea the condition of what you purchase
>>
>>and once you get the item you may have been duped...
>>
>>I was when I bought a 'Brownie' camera for 450.00 it was junk and didn't
>>even work, but they sure and hell didn't say that when I went to put a
>>bid on it...
>>
>>"Oh it's in 100% working order..."
>>
>>
>>learn from my experience
>
>
Anonymous
buyer a great service.
The words royal rip-off come to mind when you think about $1600 for a
digital camera with only 960 x 800 resolution which requires taking 3
separate shots to capture a color photo. You can get much better specs
from a $500 digital camera from a number of manufacturers.
The current crop of CMOS imagers are no good for high quality imaging.
Their low costs do make them suitable for low-res desktop imaging,
i.e., Internet video conferencing but these cameras go for under $100!
DJsPhoto
>buyer a great service.
>
>The words royal rip-off come to mind when you think about $1600 for a
>digital camera with only 960 x 800 resolution which requires taking 3
>separate shots to capture a color photo. You can get much better specs
>from a $500 digital camera from a number of manufacturers.
>
My o' my. The plot thickens!
Bob Martin
> The words royal rip-off come to mind when you think about $1600 for a
> digital camera with only 960 x 800 resolution which requires taking 3
> separate shots to capture a color photo. You can get much better specs
> from a $500 digital camera from a number of manufacturers.
You obviously don't own one. They are designed for studio and table
top product photography, and the 3 shots produce image quality which
far exceeds DSC315, RD175, and ALL comsumer cameras. The color bandwidth
is probably 4 times the cp900 at that resolution, and there are NO
artifacts whatsoever. In fact the color bandwidth is about the same
as a DSC460.
Getting better specs isn't the same as getting better pictures, and
not knowing what specs to consider important makes one appear
less than informed. They need lots of light and a 'working'
photographer. It's not a consumer market item.
As to the $1600, an alert buyer won't pay half that. Even if you paid
the $2200 list price, it's still the cheapest studio camera that mounts
Nikon, Canon, Minolta, Oly, C-mount video and virtually any other lens.
Bob
Henry
What you are saying, in essence, is that a number of ill informed boobs
with no knowledge whatever of the item being sold- agreed that the price
was too high and were being rippeed off. And they had to interfere with
that sale because they were so high mided that they had to save the
world from usury:-
Henry
ACR
since I am the one who lost the sale because of that jerk. Below you will
find a link to a photograph of the digital studio kit he killed the sale on.
Next you will find a link to Sound Vision where you will find the same setup
priced at $2400.00 without SCSI card. And the last link is a review of the
camera. If you think $1600.00 is too much for a $2500.00 system, well that's
your opinion. Someone else may disagree.
Here is the image of the system:
http://www.abilenecamera.com/pic/cmos-1.jpg
Here is a link to Sound Vision where you will find the price of a new setup
$2400.00 (without SCSI card):
http://www.soundvisioninc.com/cmospro1.htm
Here is a link to an independent review on the camera:
http://www.epicentre.co.uk/reports/9809bcs.html
ACR
posted on Sound Vision. Try this URL: http://www.soundvisioninc.com
ACR wrote in message <765pg3$t...@enews2.newsguy.com>...
John Stewart
the seller of the item was already advertising on eBay and a bidder had
apparently met the minimum bid. This means the seller is committed to sell
the item on eBay.
Since the ad was placed in this newsgroup at THE SAME TIME, it looked like
the $1,600 bid was a "shill," or phony bid placed by some friend of the
seller to simulate some action in the auction!
When I dropped a note to the bidder, it turned out to be a real bid, but
the seller was now concerned about the item being offered for sale
elsewhere, even after the auction was underway. Wouldn't you be?
Wouldn't you also be concerned about anyone who is bending the rules to the
breaking point? Beware who???
Let's drop this silly thread and use some common sense. Someone tried to
play fast and loose with the sales rules and it blew up in his face when
normal people ask normal questions about an item selling for more than a
thousand dollars.
I'm not out to get anyone...I'm out to get a damned camera. I have learned
that it is available for less, but the $1,600 seemed to come with three
lenses.
I hope someone buys the dumb thing so everyone can shut up. And if someone
advertises something that I want in TWO places and appears to already have a
buyer, you're damned right I'm going to find out what's up before making out
a money order!
John
Henry wrote in message <36864D...@mindspring.com>...
ACR
sang to him. I don't care if you made a sexual proposition to him. The point
is, YOU KILLED A $1600.00 deal by telling him I-know-not-what. I have to pay
Ebay $33.13 now for their cut, plus I lost the $1600.00 sale. My customer
plainly stated in his email to me... "I had also recieved a message from
someone who told me to be careful making any deal." IT WAS YOU JOHN. YOU
told him something and he backed out of the deal. GET IT. It was something
YOU told MY customer. I don't give a damn what you reasons were. YOU COST ME
MONEY, GET IT?
You are a jerk John. I have been getting email from other users of this
group. They tell me you have been around a long time, and that you are a
pain in the ass. Will I am going to be a pain in your ass until you email me
and tell me you will never contact any of my customers again. I will put a
string on everything you sell in this news group from now on. GET IT.
WRITE ME NOW AND SAY YOU WILL NEVER CONTACT ANY OF MY CUSTOMERS AGAIN AND I
WILL STOP TODAY! EVERYONE IS SICK OF THESE POSTS. WHY DON'T YOU SEND ME AN
EMAIL TELLING ME YOU WILL LEAVE MY CUSTOMERS ALONE? IT'S NOT MUCH TO ASK.
JUST LEAVE MY CUSTOMERS ALONE! JUST A FEW WORDS JOHN.
Zane Kori
ber...@my-dejanews.com
Bob Martin <mar...@inmind.com> wrote:
> the 3 shots produce image quality which
> far exceeds DSC315, RD175, and ALL comsumer cameras. The color bandwidth
> is probably 4 times the cp900 at that resolution,
Yes and no. Technically, the CMOS PRO is capable of 10-bit color depth in each
channel, but its plug-in routine only works in 8-bit mode -- the same 24-bit
RGB as in the Nikon CP900. If you really want 10-bit resolution, you will lose
all tonality controls and can only save a raw data file. In practice, to get a
decent shot you must operate the camera in 8-bit mode.
> In fact the color bandwidth is about the same
> as a DSC460.
Not true. The Kodak DSC460 has 12-bit color depth, which is 4 times better
than the CMOS PRO.
Berg
Bill Taylor
and just as many here ( I keep reading about all of them on the news
group). The product is either under auction or is isn't. I think that
the agreement with ebay in agreeing to their terms and conditions is
that you WILL NOT offer the product anywhere else while under auction.
WIth all the new escro features of ebay, you can't lose any money on a
bad deal unless you try very hard. I am not pushing ebay but at least
there is a database of performance about the buyers and sellers even
if it might not be correct all the time. At least it is a starting
point.
Bill Taylor
>>> top product photography, and the 3 shots produce image quality which
>>> far exceeds DSC315, RD175, and ALL comsumer cameras. The color bandwidth
>>> is probably 4 times the cp900 at that resolution, and there are NO
>>> artifacts whatsoever. In fact the color bandwidth is about the same
>>> as a DSC460.
>>>
Austin Franklin
> the agreement with ebay in agreeing to their terms and conditions is
> that you WILL NOT offer the product anywhere else while under auction.
No, you are wrong. There is nothing in any of the eBay rules that says you
can't advertise it elsewhere. In fact, the seller can stop an auction at
any time. If the minimum bid price is met, and there is NO reserve, you
are obligated to sell it to the current high bidder. If the reserve is
met, same. If the reserve is NOT met, or there are no bids, you are under
no obligation to sell it to anyone...or pay anything to eBay but the
listing fee.
Bob Martin
> Yes and no. Technically, the CMOS PRO is capable of 10-bit color depth in each
> channel, but its plug-in routine only works in 8-bit mode
The data is digitised at 10 bits, and is delivered to the caller at
8 bits resolution. All adjustments for gamma and color balance are done
at 10 bits, and the result is returned to the calling program in
8 bit form. The newest software does NOT still return a 10 bit
per pixel result. At least I can't figure out how. The calibration
data stored in the non-volatile memory in the camera can be applied
at 10 bits. Dark field subtraction also in 10 bits. 99.999% of all
460 pictures wind up in 8 bit files.
> Not true. The Kodak DSC460 has 12-bit color depth, which is 4 times better
> than the CMOS PRO.
The DSC460 with 12 bit data can discern 4 times as many gradations of
color. It's bandwidth would only benefit from that if it were measured
at very low amplitude ( nearly invisible ) It still suffers from being
a masked CCD requiring 4 cells to determine a color. It still exhibits
fringing on hard edges, which the 3 shot method does NOT. The 460 does
shoot moving subjects, the CMOS thing does not.
Each has it's place.
Bob
Joseph Albert
>A message to all rec.photo.marketplace people:
>
>I sold a $1600 camera to a high bidder on eBay and this jerk, John Stewart,
>called my customer to try and kill the deal by putting mistrust in my high
after seeing your behavior of continuing to post this repeatedly to the
newsgroup even though everyone clearly sae it the first and seceond and
third times, I'll be that high bidder is really glad s/he didn't enter
into a $1600 deal with you. i don't know what Mr. Stewart did so
I don't know if it was ethical or not, but he sure did that potential
buyer a huge favor if he did scare him or her away. I doubt there's anyone
reading this group who would want to deal with you at this point.
if you continue posting this same thing again, I'm going to notate the
newsgroup abuse as a negative comment in your ebay feedback file.
ja
David Meiland
>>I sold a $1600 camera to a high bidder on eBay and this jerk, John Stewart,
>>called my customer to try and kill the deal by putting mistrust in my high
>
>
>after seeing your behavior of continuing to post this repeatedly to the
>newsgroup even though everyone clearly sae it the first and seceond and
>third times, I'll be that high bidder is really glad s/he didn't enter
>into a $1600 deal with you. i don't know what Mr. Stewart did so
>I don't know if it was ethical or not, but he sure did that potential
>buyer a huge favor if he did scare him or her away. I doubt there's anyone
>reading this group who would want to deal with you at this point.
>
>if you continue posting this same thing again, I'm going to notate the
>newsgroup abuse as a negative comment in your ebay feedback file.
>
This is an excellent idea. What is this guy's eBay handle?
---
David Meiland
Oakland, CA
**Check the reply address before sending mail
Austin Franklin
> newsgroup abuse as a negative comment in your ebay feedback file.
Personally, I believe you would be wrong for doing such. His comments here
have nothing to do with his being a good/bad seller/buyer on eBay.
Why would you want to open your self up to a feedback war, in which YOU
could loose your eBay account? In fact, he could have your eBay account
terminated right NOW just because you threatened him with leaving negative
feedback if he doesn't do what you want him to. You might want to read the
eBay rules on this....cause they do terminate accounts for 'feedback
threats'.
MikeDi1123
bid last .
as far as shills on ebay
buyer beware
as for bids going for more than its worth
well it's not to smart to bid at all if you don't
know the items actual worth
does this cover most comment
mike
P/S seem simple to me how not to get beat>>
>