Hollywood Portraits - Classic Shots
ChNR
Christopher Nisperos which contains photographs of celebrities of the 30's,
40's and 50's(Ingrid Bergman,Cary Grant, etc.). The majority of the shots were
done using 8x10 cameras and Kodak Super XX and Tungsten lighting. I am
interested in duplicating the look, however using a modern lens(Rodenstock
Sironar N 360mm) and a modern film(Agfapan 100)and strobe lighting. According
to the book, the photographers of that era would underexpose and overdevelop to
achieve that classic Hollywoood "look". Does anyone in this group have any
specific recommendations for lens/film/developer that would produce that
"look"? TIA.
Chuck Richards
St. Louis, MO
Isaac Crawford
IMHO the lighting is as important, maybe even moreso than the
development time... Didn't a lot of those "classic" shots use *big*
fresenel spots? I've priced fresenels for strobes and they're small and
expensive. You might want to invest in a 10 or 12 inch mole richardson
or something like that...
Isaac
Richard Knoppow
I think the underexpose and overdevlop part is simply myth. That
gets you high contrast negatives with no shadow detail. I also suspect
that a veriety of films were used. Certainly ortho for many male
portraits and lots of Kodak Portrait Panchromatic which had an upward
rising curve something like Plus-X pan sheet film.
Most stuff was shot on 8x10 using large studio lights but not very
often stage type lighting.
Lighting, makeup and _retouching_, lots of it from some workers, is
the key. Hurrel retouchted the hell out of his portraits. Some others
didn't use so much retouching but did use lots of makup, especially on
women. Again, lighting is the key.
Look for an old book called _Painting with Light_ John Alton,
c.1949, for some hints. Alton was an academy award winning director of
photography, and the only one AFAIK to write anything useful about his
work. Its a rather rare book but some libraries will have it.
He says the first lesson is how to light an orange so that the pores
don't show.
I think you can get the dramatic highlights by using a long toe film
like Plus-X, that is exactly what it was designed for.
As far as ortho film (part of Karsch's look on male portraits) you
are stuck because no one makes pictorial type ortho film anymore and
there is no filter with the right cyan transmission.
Work with smaller format, that makes little difference provided you
minimise grain. Larger negatives have a smoothness that 35mm rarely
has but the effects of different kinds of lighting will still be
apparent and the film will allow a lot more experimentation. Try to
use a long lens, 1.5x to 2x the "normal" focal length is about right
for both head and full body shots.
If you have one or both of the cable channels which show classic
movies pay attention to the portrait lighting (i.e., the lighting of
closeups). Memorize the quality and try to figure out where the lights
must have been.
Old movies were lighted with a limited variety of instruments all
with quality you can duplicate with simple lighting.
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
dick...@ix.netcom.com
Richard Knoppow
I forgot to add that the reason 8x10 was used was because it is easy
to retouch and because most of the prints were publicity prints for
fans or publication or stills to be distributed with the movie. They
were all contact printed from either the original or duplicate
negatives. Contact printing could be done on a mass production basis
and the larger negative also withstood duplication well. Very often
thousands of prints were made.
The Fixer Man
> development time... Didn't a lot of those "classic" shots use *big*
> fresenel spots? I've priced fresenels for strobes and they're small and
> expensive. You might want to invest in a 10 or 12 inch mole richardson
> or something like that...
>
> Isaac
> >
> > Chuck Richards
> > St. Louis, MO
You can probably pick up some used Mole Richardsons or Bardwell &
McAllisters today reasonably priced since a lot of the TV stations and grips
have switched to HMIs. There are usually some on ebay fairly regularly. If
you are interested in investigating hot lights, Mole has a website at
mole.com.
Fixer Man
Tom Coates
published a book of his work including some information on how it was done.
You can look at what he did and decide whether there's anything worth
emulating. The book was called Your Friends and Mine. Amazon lists it at
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0316754218/qid=998194363/sr=1-11/ref=
sc_b_11/104-2368532-7197543. It may be in the library.
Tom
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The Fixer Man
Portraiture." He covers a lot of areas other than Hollywood glamour
lighting, but he does cover some areas that would be useful. If you are
interested in learning about negative retouching, I would recommend
"Negatisve and Print Retouching" by Anne J. Anthony. Both of these books
are rather old, but not too hard to find, especially on ebay.
Fixer Man
Dan
John Alton; Paperback
Reissued - available at bookstores now for about $20-28
Dan
not the book itself, so I don't have a personal opinion on whether it's
really good or not:
Hurrell's Hollywood Portraits : The Chapman Collection
by Mark A. Vieira, George Hurrell
Card catalog description
This book presents in depth the work of George Hurrell, the photographer who
more than anyone else was responsible for inventing the Hollywood "glamour"
portrait - the essential publicity tool for the major studios during the
Golden Age of the movies. The book traces his immense impact on the
portrayal of the leading stars year by year, from his arrival in California
in 1925 until his departure in 1943. During that time he photographed all of
the greatest personalities, at Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, Warner Brothers, and
Columbia as well as independently. The prints come from the Chapman
Collection, one of the most extensive archives of original Hurrell
photographs in the world, and they include a number of rarities and
surprises. Although some photos by Hurrell are familiar and frequently
reproduced, most of the images in this book will come as a revelation, since
they have not been published in over half a century. The genesis of the
pictures is examined in a remarkable text by Mark A. Vieira, himself a
highly regarded portrait photographer, who came to know Hurrell well during
the photographer's later years. Vieira explains in detail Hurrell's
technical feats of lighting and retouching. And drawing on firsthand
accounts, he vividly re-creates the lively interplay between the
photographer and his subjects at the shooting sessions in which these
portraits were taken.
Brian Downey
Probably the best known practitioner of this technique was George Hurrell
and there are a couple of books out on how to emulate his technique.
However, your nice modern sharp lens is probably not the best starting point
since most of Hurrell's pics were made with one of the Wollensak soft focus
lenses - his most famous shots were with the "Verito" (although the
"Veritar" was considered a better lens and will give the same results).
These lenses are almost always up on eBay as well as listed by most of the
LF stores in Shutterbug. Prices are $200-$500 depending on condition and
focal length. For LF shots you want as long a lens as you can get - the
Verito came in 18", but the 14" is more common and will still do for 8x10.
Normally these are in a "Studio" shutter - huge in size - had to be since
these lenses were around f4.5 and had front elements the size of dinner
plates (well, good size saucers anyway). They only function at one speed
but they got the job done. Good luck!
Brian Downey
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ChNR
smieglitz
>
> ch...@aol.com (ChNR) wrote:
>
> >(snip) According
> >to the book, the photographers of that era would underexpose and overdevelop to
> >achieve that classic Hollywoood "look". Does anyone in this group have any
> >specific recommendations for lens/film/developer that would produce that
> >"look"? TIA.
> >
> >Chuck Richards
> >St. Louis, MO
> >
> gets you high contrast negatives with no shadow detail.
William Mortensen basically recommends this technique with his very controlled
lighting to produce his "Seven-Derivative negative" (slightly underexposed and
way overdeveloped on a modern "ring-around" test), to which he gave total
development. Check out "Mortensen On The Negative" and his "Pictorial
Lighting" books.
>...I also suspect
> that a veriety of films were used. Certainly ortho for many male
> portraits and lots of Kodak Portrait Panchromatic which had an upward
> rising curve something like Plus-X pan sheet film.
> Most stuff was shot on 8x10 using large studio lights ...(snip)...
> As far as ortho film (part of Karsch's look on male portraits) you
> are stuck because no one makes pictorial type ortho film anymore and
> there is no filter with the right cyan transmission.(snip)...
Kodak recently discontinued Professional Copy Film PCF4125 and Commercial Film
(4167?), both ortho types which could be used in camera although designed for
darkroom work. Ilford Ortho Plus is still on the market and available in 4x5
and 8x10 sheets. Might be worth a try. (I believe Bergger and a couple other
European manufacturers still make ortho films.)
As far as filters, a Wratten #44 Cyan (minus-red) gel probably comes closest
to matching an ortho effect with a panchromatic film. Try Badger Graphics as
a source. The larger sizes are pricey. I received a quote of $100 for a 6"
filter. I need one this size to adapt to my 18" Verito lens which has huge
glass. Someone in a later post mentions the Verito as being available in many
focal lengths up to 18". I've also seen them advertised on eBay in a 22"
length. I have several Veritos, Veritars and Velostigmats and love the
look...get a lens that starts with a "V".
Joe
Dan
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Richard Knoppow
>Richard Knoppow wrote:
>>
>> ch...@aol.com (ChNR) wrote:
>>
>> >(snip) According
>> >to the book, the photographers of that era would underexpose and overdevelop to
>> >achieve that classic Hollywoood "look". Does anyone in this group have any
>> >specific recommendations for lens/film/developer that would produce that
>> >"look"? TIA.
>> >
>> >Chuck Richards
>> >St. Louis, MO
>> >
>RK responded: > I think the underexpose and overdevlop part is simply myth. That
>> gets you high contrast negatives with no shadow detail.
>
>
>
>William Mortensen basically recommends this technique with his very controlled
>lighting to produce his "Seven-Derivative negative" (slightly underexposed and
>way overdeveloped on a modern "ring-around" test), to which he gave total
>development. Check out "Mortensen On The Negative" and his "Pictorial
>Lighting" books.
>
>
Mortensen recommended some very curious things including overnight
stand development. In his book on the negative (probably actually
written by George Dunham) one will find a good explanation of
senstiometry and good recomendations for conventional processing.
Then, in other parts of the text he recommends what is IMHO absolutely
crazy stuff. He also had to work like a trojan to print the negatives
he got from his procedure.
>>...I also suspect
>> that a veriety of films were used. Certainly ortho for many male
>> portraits and lots of Kodak Portrait Panchromatic which had an upward
>> rising curve something like Plus-X pan sheet film.
>> Most stuff was shot on 8x10 using large studio lights ...(snip)...
>> As far as ortho film (part of Karsch's look on male portraits) you
>> are stuck because no one makes pictorial type ortho film anymore and
>> there is no filter with the right cyan transmission.(snip)...
>
>
>Kodak recently discontinued Professional Copy Film PCF4125 and Commercial Film
>(4167?), both ortho types which could be used in camera although designed for
>darkroom work. Ilford Ortho Plus is still on the market and available in 4x5
>and 8x10 sheets. Might be worth a try. (I believe Bergger and a couple other
>European manufacturers still make ortho films.)
>
>As far as filters, a Wratten #44 Cyan (minus-red) gel probably comes closest
>to matching an ortho effect with a panchromatic film. Try Badger Graphics as
>a source. The larger sizes are pricey. I received a quote of $100 for a 6"
>filter. I need one this size to adapt to my 18" Verito lens which has huge
>glass. Someone in a later post mentions the Verito as being available in many
>focal lengths up to 18". I've also seen them advertised on eBay in a 22"
>length. I have several Veritos, Veritars and Velostigmats and love the
>look...get a lens that starts with a "V".
>
>Joe
I missed this one. It looks like a 44A might do it. This one has
less blue absorption than the 44. Not quite the same as ortho film but
might produce similar results.
I don't know if any of the current ortho special purpose films have
low enough contrast for general pictorial work. One can try low
contrast developers but the resulting curve shape might not be right.
Kodak and Ansco/Agfa used to make ortho portrait films with the
right sort of curve for strong highlights. It would be interesting to
try a 44A with Plus-X pan sheet film.
Richard Knoppow
That's great. Its a unique book. It will also tip you off as to just
how large and clumsey the equipment used in the good old days was.
annqlee
You might want to try digital. Hurrell's work is a major touch up, even some
of the guys
look like porcelain dolls. With digital you don't have to learn touching up
films, plus you can
have sharp lenses and do a soft mask selectively. I recommend the book the
Portfolio of George
Hurrell where he tells you what light was used and what film, shutter and
aperature.
I always loved the look of a buckled-negative contact print, soft and
creamy. You can do
that selectively with digital. I am doing a series of portraits of friends
in this style so I will share with
you my mistakes as I go along.
Best Wishes,
Ann
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Ron Todd
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/DisplayProduct.cfm?productid=1326&sortby=Color
Richard Knoppow wrote:
>
> smieglitz <smie...@aol.com> wrote:
>
...