What to do when scammed by Marine Park Camera?
Adam Barker
camera) from Marine Park Photo to save $10 over the competition without
checking them out first. I called to make sure it was a new camera, not
refurbished, and that it included a 1 year factory warranty. While I was on
the phone I went ahead and ordered it and the total came to ~$234, what I
expected to pay. Then my credit card was charged with $249. I called
customer service and they said was a mandatory shipping, handling and
insurance fee of nearly $30. It has already shipped, so I can't cancel it
now.
What should I do? Capital One Visa say they can't do anything till I have
received the item and returned it. It will be here tomorrow. What if I
refuse delivery of it from UPS saying I did not agree to the shipping
charges? I assume it would go back to company, what then?
If I have to recieve the camera and send it back I might as well keep it,
because by the time I ship it back and order one from another company my
total amount will be the same. I would also prefer not to drag this out for
several weeks while I wait on a camera.
Any reasonably advice is appreciated, and I have certaintly learned a lesson
about how not to save a few bucks.
Adam
Alan Browne
Adam Barker wrote:
Assuming the camera is *what you ordered* and that it *works fine* then
keep it and write a flame against them here and anywhere you get a
chance. You are right, returning it will cost you even more, and they
will likely do everything possible to avoid crediting your card.
I hate to say it, but had you asked here before, you would have been
told that the two reputable places to order are Adorama and B&H.
Period. You would have paid additional shipping charges there too.
Cheers,
Alan.
Adam Barker
shipment on the camera and wanted a full refund to my credit card when they
received the camera back. I got the run around for a long while going back
and forth between people, then eventually I got fed up with it and gave them
a nice strong piece of my mind and told them I would never do business with
them again and hung up. A couple minutes later I got a call back from "Tom"
who told me that $13 would be refunded to my credit card, which drops it to
a reasonable shipping charge. So I guess as long as the camera arrives
safely then I didn't get screwed too bad, but I, and everyone I can inform,
will not give them any more business.
Adam
Tony Spadaro
that gave you -- that is fraud. Marine Park and the other rip off stores do
not fight credit card disputes as that would lead to the credit card issuer
revoking their ability to take the card.
--
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"Adam Barker" <adba...@vt.edu> wrote in message
news:bk4r8h$2n0$1...@solaris.cc.vt.edu...
Slingblade
wrote:
My advice is...since you're only looking at 15 dollars
difference...just chalk this one up to experience and keep the camera.
As you say, by the time you re-order it, it will take probably MORE
time to receive it, and may even cost more money in the end, by the
time you pay a higher base price for the camera.
Don't feel bad, back about 15 years ago, I ordered a body and standard
lens from one company (which I received with no surprises less than a
week later), and a zoom lens from another company, because the 2nd
company had a cheaper price (about 15-20 dollars less), and came to
find out that the shipping charges from the 2nd company were nearly
double what the first company was going to charge me. It would have
made the lens cost about the same amount of money in the end. In my
case, it turned out that the 2nd company didn't have the lens in
stock, and called me a week later to try to sell me an off-brand
version for a few dollars less (but I bet their markup was more). I
refused, and was told the original lens would take a month or more
before it'd be back in stock. I cancelled the order, and called the
1st company (that I bought the body/lens from) and ordered it from
them, paying a few dollars more for the lens, but a little less for
shipping. Less than a week later, I had the zoom lens as well, again
with no surprises from this company.
This 1st company's name was Adorama. I would highly recommend them to
anyone, and I've used them several times over the years, as has my
dad, and one of my best friends (why buys almost exclusively from
either Adorama or locally). The second company I don't believe is in
business any longer, and I don't recall their name off hand, but they
used to have those two page ads in the photo magazines, and their
prices were always way less than everyone elses. I guess you can
advertise things cheaper if you don't actually have it to sell. Just
resort to the old bait-n-switch every time. Some people actually fall
for this. I never do.
Slingblade
<alan....@videotron.canospam> wrote:
>Assuming the camera is *what you ordered* and that it *works fine* then
>keep it and write a flame against them here and anywhere you get a
>chance. You are right, returning it will cost you even more, and they
>will likely do everything possible to avoid crediting your card.
>
>I hate to say it, but had you asked here before, you would have been
>told that the two reputable places to order are Adorama and B&H.
>Period. You would have paid additional shipping charges there too.
I think what he said in his original message was that they charged him
more for shipping than they told him on the initial phone call. If he
just meant the cost of the camera was $234.00, and wasn't talking
about shipping, then it'd kinda be HIS fault for not asking what the
total with shipping would be. For this very reason, I prefer
web-ordering, because you view your "shopping cart" and it actually
shows you your total, with shipping, and everything (tax too, if it
applies).
Just as information...
When I've ordered from KEH.COM I do have to pay tax, because I'm here
in Georgia where they're located...and every time I've ordered from
KEH, when I got my statement, I was actually charged LESS shipping
than their website shipping calculator figured. I don't know if I'm
getting a break because it's local, or they figure their shipping on
the high side to prevent it from possibly running over the online
estimate...but either way, I'm always happy.
Andrew Koenig
Adam> (first SLR camera) from Marine Park Photo to save $10 over the
Adam> competition without checking them out first. I called to make
Adam> sure it was a new camera, not refurbished, and that it included
Adam> a 1 year factory warranty. While I was on the phone I went
Adam> ahead and ordered it and the total came to ~$234, what I
Adam> expected to pay. Then my credit card was charged with $249. I
Adam> called customer service and they said was a mandatory shipping,
Adam> handling and insurance fee of nearly $30. It has already
Adam> shipped, so I can't cancel it now.
Adam> What should I do? Capital One Visa say they can't do anything
Adam> till I have received the item and returned it. It will be here
Adam> tomorrow. What if I refuse delivery of it from UPS saying I did
Adam> not agree to the shipping charges? I assume it would go back to
Adam> company, what then?
It appears that they don't want to get involved in a dispute about
*how much* of a charge was authorized, but only about *whether* the
charge was authorized. You might want to call them back to confirm
your understanding.
If your understanding is correct, what I would do in your position is
refuse delivery on the package without opening it, and make sure you
get some kind of receipt from the delivery company. Then write a
letter to your credit-card company, telling them that you were
overcharged on your order, that you refused delivery *on their
advice*, and that you would like them to arrange for a chargeback.
Don't just phone them -- write them a letter and keep a copy in case
you need it.
--
Andrew Koenig, a...@acm.org
Andrew Koenig
Jeremy> news:k49cmv0c756ms9cja...@4ax.com...
Jeremy> I agree with you--the poster shouldn't make a big deal over
Jeremy> $15 bucks.
The big deal is the dishonesty, not the money.
--
Andrew Koenig, a...@acm.org
Alan Browne
Slingblade wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:25:31 -0400, Alan Browne
> <alan....@videotron.canospam> wrote:
>
>
> I think what he said in his original message was that they charged him
> more for shipping than they told him on the initial phone call. If he
> just meant the cost of the camera was $234.00, and wasn't talking
> about shipping, then it'd kinda be HIS fault for not asking what the
> total with shipping would be. For this very reason, I prefer
> web-ordering, because you view your "shopping cart" and it actually
> shows you your total, with shipping, and everything (tax too, if it
> applies).
Regardless, in his current situation he will just be adding more cost if
he tries to return it. Unless it is broken, he is taking less risk by
not returning it. (absent a "no questions asked, we take it back and pay
all of the shipping charges both ways," policy, which I doubt is the case.)
I agree with you otherwise... careful shopping saved me close to $300
Cad (US$200) last week!
Cheers,
Alan
Adam Barker
> told that the two reputable places to order are Adorama and B&H.
> Period. You would have paid additional shipping charges there too.
They say you only get to be young and stupid once, sometimes I think I take
full advantage of it....
Adam
Alan Browne
Adam Barker wrote:
Next time ask, better yet, as Slingblade points out, use the web
shopping page so that you know precisely what you are getting into.
Frankly, this is your fault not theirs.
It doesn't look to me like you were scammed anymore, and more like they
are bending over backwards to satisfy you. They probably feel that they
were remiss in not telling you every detail. (or possibly they did but
take pity on the deaf? ;-) )
As another poster did recently vis-a-vis B&H you should consider posting
a separate apology.
Cheers,
Alan.
Alan Browne
Adam Barker wrote:
At least you're humble.
Adam Barker
over the phone, and yes that was included in the total they gave me. But
yes, I let them take advantage of me by not doing my homework earlier.
Adam
William Graham
your credit card when they had you on the phone.....Most every store I have
ordered from the last few years does this.........
William Graham
Alan Browne <alan....@videotron.canospam> wrote in message
news:mKr9b.58433$yG.11...@weber.videotron.net...
> > They say you only get to be young and stupid once, sometimes I think I
take
> > full advantage of it....
> >
> > Adam
Well.....One good thing.....I must be still young at 68..........
Adam Barker
credit card bill.
Adam
Slingblade
wrote:
>I called Marine Park up once again and told them I would be refusing
Atleast you've done better than a lot of others have done with some
companies. I've read where some people have had the companies hang up
on them and so forth, and never got their problems resolved.
Interestingly, I've never heard of Marine Park. But in the
future...my recommendations for mail/online order would be
Adorama www.adorama.com
or
B&H www.bhphotovideo.com
I've never personally ordered from B&H, but I've read so many positive
comments and they rate highest on some of the internet retail ratings
websites.
If you're looking for good used gear try
I've bought a number of used lenses, lens hoods and filters from them,
and they've always been excellent quality or better. When cash
permits I plan to order another camera body and some more lenses from
them as well. They have some new gear too, but it may not be as good
a deal as Adorama or B&H. But for used gear you can't beat KEH.
k...@usenet.ca
wrote:
>> I hate to say it, but had you asked here before, you would have been
You were probably lucky to only incur and extra $15. Some get ripped
off for a lot more. I suspect you have learned a lot from this
experience. A $15 well spent. To help ease your pain you can complain
to all who will listen, here is a good place. Call whoever will accept
your complaint including your credit card company. After you do as
much as you can, I can ALMOST guarentee you will feel better.
Ken
Andrew Koenig
Alan> cost if he tries to return it. Unless it is broken, he is
Alan> taking less risk by not returning it. (absent a "no questions
Alan> asked, we take it back and pay all of the shipping charges both
Alan> ways," policy, which I doubt is the case.)
At least in the US, I'm not so sure I agree (I'm saying this because I
infer from your post that you're in Canada). I think that if the OP says
to his credit-card company ``They charged me without authorization,
so I refused the shipment and I want the charge reversed,'' it is
very likely that he will wind up with a total cost of zero. If,
on the other hand, he accepts the shipment, there is the risk that
the merchandise may be used or gray-market, and if he subsequently
needs warranty service, he may find that it is not available.
--
Andrew Koenig, a...@acm.org
Andrew Koenig
Alan> shopping page so that you know precisely what you are getting
Alan> into. Frankly, this is your fault not theirs.
Maybe you haven't heard about how some of these stores work: You place
an order through the web and then they call you to try to sell you
overpriced accessories. If you decline, they take your money and don't
ship, or charge you extra anyway, or any of a number of other things...
--
Andrew Koenig, a...@acm.org
Alan Browne
Andrew Koenig wrote:
This is a bit late considering that Adam has managed to resolve the
issue in his favour with the vendor.
In his original post, his first para, setting the tone for the
discussion he stated he ended up with charges he hadn't agreed to or
heard from the vendor.
CC companies will (at least MasterCard/VISA, not the A-holes at
AmericanExpress) _ suspend_ charges until resolution. They will not act
to prevent a vendor from receiving payment 'cause you say they ripped
you off. Canada, US, same thing. The 'vendor' will say, "hey, the
shipping, etc. was part of the deal."
The CC company has a hard time believeing the customer who agrees to pay
$250 for a product that is shipped, yet says, "snif, nobody tol me 'bout
shipping". The CC companies are not the BBB. They will suspend and
eventually cancel a charge that is declared fraudulent and there is no
substantial proof to the contrary. Adam's adeventure has little such
substantiation...the fact that the vendor has agreed to cancel that
charge seems to me indication that they regret the misunderstanding and
are doing their best to do well by Adam.
Above where I say "adding more cost" is the cost of shipping it back,
the shipping he will likely end up paying in the first place, plus the
price difference at the next higher price store. As the discussion
opened in the tone of a "not reliable source" as, unfortunately, some
camera vendors are, he could have gotten himself really wrapped around a
pole with a payment to make and no camera to show for it...
For a $15.00 difference, he was, IMO just asking for trouble ($) in
returning it..
Cheers,
Alan.
Andrew Koenig
Alan> AmericanExpress) _ suspend_ charges until resolution. They will
Alan> not act to prevent a vendor from receiving payment 'cause you
Alan> say they ripped you off. Canada, US, same thing. The 'vendor'
Alan> will say, "hey, the shipping, etc. was part of the deal."
I think not. This particular vendor said on the phone ``The total
charge is X'' and then charged Y.
Here's a story for you. Once upon a time, I ordered a product from
its manufacturer (not from a retailer). When it arrived, it was
defective. I called the manufacturer to ask about warranty service,
and they said ``I'm sorry -- we've just declared bankruptcy, and
we're not in a position to provide any repair service.''
I wrote a letter to my credit-card company explaining the situation,
and asking if I had any recourse. With no further prompting, they
reversed the entire charge.
--
Andrew Koenig, a...@acm.org
Alan Browne
Andrew Koenig wrote:
> Here's a story for you. Once upon a time, I ordered a product from
> its manufacturer (not from a retailer). When it arrived, it was
> defective. I called the manufacturer to ask about warranty service,
> and they said ``I'm sorry -- we've just declared bankruptcy, and
> we're not in a position to provide any repair service.''
>
> I wrote a letter to my credit-card company explaining the situation,
> and asking if I had any recourse. With no further prompting, they
> reversed the entire charge.
We all have war stories.
Alan Browne
Andrew Koenig wrote:
> Maybe you haven't heard about how some of these stores work: You place
> an order through the web and then they call you to try to sell you
> overpriced accessories. If you decline, they take your money and don't
> ship, or charge you extra anyway, or any of a number of other things...
That, happilly, has not been my experience. For photo equipment ordered
from the US, it has been B&H and once at Adorama ... and always by
phone. And B&H, after dropping the price on an item a day after I
ordered it, refunded me the difference in price.
See my prev. reply to Adam saying: a) you shoulda asked here first and
b) Adorama and B&H are the 'trusted' sources for shipped items; and
another poster added KEH are the 'trusted' source for shipped/used
items. (B&H and I expect Adorama are also trusted I believe for used
items.).
For books I've ordered from Chapters by web and gotten what I asked via
shipping that asked at the price I asked and delivered when they said
they'd deliver...
William Graham
Slingblade <bladeREMO...@earthREMOVElink.net> wrote in message
got it, it looked brand new. No brassing, dings, dust in the elements, no
nothing......I don't know why they didn't rate it, "mint". Made me glad that
I passed up the "excellent" one they had that was 50% more expensive.......
Andrew Koenig
>> Maybe you haven't heard about how some of these stores work: You place
>> an order through the web and then they call you to try to sell you
>> overpriced accessories. If you decline, they take your money and don't
>> ship, or charge you extra anyway, or any of a number of other things...
Alan> That, happilly, has not been my experience. For photo equipment
Alan> ordered from the US, it has been B&H and once at Adorama ... and
Alan> always by phone. And B&H, after dropping the price on an item a day
Alan> after I ordered it, refunded me the difference in price.
I don't think we're disagreeing on anything here.
My point is to show the range of fradulent behavior that exists.
I completely agree with you that neither B&H nor Adorama behaves that
way. The question is not what the OP should have done in the first
place; it is how to proceed.
--
Andrew Koenig, a...@acm.org
Jerry L.
but you need to 'write a letter' and mail it to Marine Park Photo.
**Keep a copy of your letter.**
Wait for Marine Park Photo to call (or write to you.)
When the box arrives, take delivery. You have to decide if you
want to open the box or not.
If you do not hear from Marine Park Photo, contact your credit card
company and contest the charge.
Now get on the Internet and find the New York City website.
There is a office for consumer protection: find out what information
they need (this is where you have to send them copies of e-mail,
letter(s) to Marine Park Photo, letters to your credit card company.
This office handles complaints against licensed businesses in New York
City. Too many complaints, no license.
Generally, you will get some relief, but be prepared for a restocking
fee if you return the camera.
Or you could enjoy your purchase and every ten days or so ** Post over
the Internet that Marine Park Camera is a lousy place to order
anything from **
= = =
Alan Browne <alan....@videotron.canospam> wrote in message news:<dCm9b.6382$LR.3...@wagner.videotron.net>...
> Adam Barker wrote:
>
> > I made the mistake of ordering a Nikon N65 with 28-80m lens (first SLR
> > camera) from Marine Park Photo to save $10 over the competition without
> > checking them out first. I called to make sure it was a new camera, not
> > refurbished, and that it included a 1 year factory warranty. While I was on
SNIP
Alan Browne
Andrew Koenig wrote:
> I don't think we're disagreeing on anything here.
>
> My point is to show the range of fradulent behavior that exists.
> I completely agree with you that neither B&H nor Adorama behaves that
> way. The question is not what the OP should have done in the first
> place; it is how to proceed.
...I thought this thread had died of natural causes.
Whatever you say.
Cheers,
Alan.