Palestinians Under Attack
sma...@gmail.com
تعرض الشعب الفلسطيني في غزه لظلم رهيب على ايدي القوات الاسرائيليه
Palestinians are exposed for horrible unfairness at the hands of
Israeli forces.
حصار دام لشهور .. انقطاع للكهرباء دام لشهور..
The siege by Israel lasted for months..
Power blackout has lasted for months..
Potable water has been disconnected for months..
تجويع تشريد
Starvation has been spread along the Gaza Strip among children and
elderly
واخر الجرائم هي هذه المجزره
The biggest crime and is the one that comes to complete the unfairness
( the attack)
Besides the starvation and blocking any life resources from getting
into the Strip Israel is killing, attacking any remaining lives in
Gaza.
نريد ان يعرف العالم باجمعه
We want the whole wold to be informed what is Israel!!!
حقيقة اسرائيل .. قتل شعب اعزل
We want the whole wold to know the reality of Israel
Its reality is The killing of defenseless, helpless and poor people by
this Brutal and inhumanity
بهذه الوحشيه
فاين صوت الحق
So, Where is the truth
where is the humanity
Look below at the photo attached as a result of the Israeli attack
against Palestinians
..
ملف مصور عن آثار الدمار التي خلفها القصف الوحشي الإسرائيلي ضد
الفلسطينيين:
http://nawasreh.com/samieo/images-632573.jpg
http://nawasreh.com/samieo/images-63574.jpg
http://nawasreh.com/samieo/images-6325y38.jpg
قصف على اماكن متفرقة من قطاع غزة
Attack at many different places in Gaza Strip
غارات اسرائيلية متتالية تستهدف قطاع غزه
http://nawasreh.com/samieo/images-632542.jpg
http://nawasreh.com/samieo/images-632579.jpg
http://nawasreh.com/samieo/images-632547.jpg
http://nawasreh.com/samieo/images-632558.jpg
http://nawasreh.com/samieo/images-632550.jpg
http://nawasreh.com/samieo/images-632554.jpg
Where is the world's conscience , feelings and humanity
أين الحق ..
Where si the Just and the Truth
ما كل هذا الظلم
Why is all that Unfairness and unjustice ?
اين الامم المتحده ..
Where is the United Nations ?
اين المنادون بالحق والعدل .
Where are the right and just callers and proponents .
Stephen Bishop
>Palestinians Under Attack
>
>
>???? ????? ????????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ???????????
>
>
>Palestinians are exposed for horrible unfairness at the hands of
>Israeli forces.
>
>
>
>
>
>???? ??? ????? .. ?????? ???????? ??? ?????..
>
>
>
>
>The siege by Israel lasted for months..
>Power blackout has lasted for months..
>Potable water has been disconnected for months..
>
>????? ?????
>
>
>
>
>Starvation has been spread along the Gaza Strip among children and
>elderly
>
>
>???? ??????? ?? ??? ???????
>
>The biggest crime and is the one that comes to complete the unfairness
>( the attack)
>
>
>Besides the starvation and blocking any life resources from getting
>into the Strip Israel is killing, attacking any remaining lives in
>Gaza.
>
>
>???? ?? ???? ?????? ??????
>
>
>We want the whole wold to be informed what is Israel!!!
>
>
>
>????? ??????? .. ??? ??? ????
>
>We want the whole wold to know the reality of Israel
>Its reality is The killing of defenseless, helpless and poor people by
>this Brutal and inhumanity
>
>
>
>???? ???????
>
>
>
>???? ??? ????
>
>So, Where is the truth
>
>where is the humanity
>
>
>Look below at the photo attached as a result of the Israeli attack
>against Palestinians
>..
>
>??? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ?????????? ??
>???????????:
>
>
>http://nawasreh.com/samieo/images-632573.jpg
>
>
>
>http://nawasreh.com/samieo/images-63574.jpg
>
>
>
>
>http://nawasreh.com/samieo/images-6325y38.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>??? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ???
>
>
>
>Attack at many different places in Gaza Strip
>
>????? ????????? ??????? ?????? ???? ???
>
>
>http://nawasreh.com/samieo/images-632542.jpg
>
>
>http://nawasreh.com/samieo/images-632579.jpg
>
>
>http://nawasreh.com/samieo/images-632547.jpg
>
>http://nawasreh.com/samieo/images-632558.jpg
>
>
>http://nawasreh.com/samieo/images-632550.jpg
>
>
>http://nawasreh.com/samieo/images-632554.jpg
>
>
>
>Where is the world's conscience , feelings and humanity
>
>
>
>??? ???? ..
>
>
>
>Where si the Just and the Truth
>
>
>
>?? ?? ??? ?????
>
>Why is all that Unfairness and unjustice ?
>
>
>
>
>??? ????? ??????? ..
>
>Where is the United Nations ?
>
>??? ???????? ????? ?????? .
>
>Where are the right and just callers and proponents .
Where are the photos of Palestinian terror against innocent Israelis?
There is a simple formula for peace there. It starts with getting
over what the United Nations did in 1947 and simply acknowledge
Israel's right to exist, instead of being in a constant state of war
with them.
Chris H
<nospam...@now.com> writes
>On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 16:50:00 -0800 (PST), sma...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>Where are the photos of Palestinian terror against innocent Israelis?
There are more photos of Israeli casualties pro rata than Palestinian
casualties. For every innocent Israeli killed there are 100 innocent
Palestinians killed.
The only different between the Waffen SS in the Warsaw Getto and the IDF
in Gaza are the uniforms and the IDF use helecopters.
>There is a simple formula for peace there. It starts with getting
>over what the United Nations did in 1947
I agree.
>and simply acknowledge
>Israel's right to exist,
Nope... Just remove Israel. It has committed more war crimes per year
since it's start than any other country in the world It is in breach
of more UN resolutions than any other country in the world... or would
be if the US did not keep Vetoing them
It is developing Nuclear and chemical weapons.. It kills civilians daily
and confiscates property. It has the worst human rights record on the
planet.
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Bert Hyman
sma...@gmail.com wrote:
> Palestinians Under Attack
Because they're spammers.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN be...@iphouse.com
HEMI - Powered
> There are more photos of Israeli casualties pro rata than
> Palestinian casualties. For every innocent Israeli killed there
> are 100 innocent Palestinians killed.
If the major countries of the world are going to support Israel for
good reasons, or for bad ones, why in Hell bother to stop them from
blowing Hamas off the planet once and for all? I suppose we could
blame all this on the Brits for Fucking up the UN-sponsored
partitioning of old Palistine in 1947 but I don't think that'll
wash.
It makes absolutely NO sense to me to continually force Israel and
the Arab nation du jour into unenforceable cease fires that we
already know won't work. And, it makes even less sense to
continually force Israel and the Arab nation du jour to the peace
talks table that we already know won't work.
There ARE moral absolutes in the world, nations have a RIGHT to
defend themselves, and those who would try to implement their
avowed plans to destroy Israel need to be taken out. NOW.
Or, just stand back the the Israelis will be happy to take care of
it on their own. NO other plan is going to work, these people have
been fighting each other for what, 5,000 years at least? So, why
would anyone be so stupid as to think that UN cease fires or peace
talks are of any use - let the Israelis turn the desert sand into
glass if that's what it takes to rid the world of rogue nations,
terrorists, and Islamic extremists. And, the Hamas.
--
HP, aka Jerry
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained
by stupidity!" - Hanlon's Razor
HEMI - Powered
...
>> Palestinians Under Attack
>
> Because they're spammers.
>
Yeah, they've "spammed" Israel with 3,000 missiles in the last year
alone. Why Israel doesn't decimate Gaza and wherever else Hamas
hides out, has friends, or has terrorist cells is beyond me.
Or, turn the big paper tiger, the UN, loose on the problem again.
Gee, they've done so well in ending all the other armed conflicts
since they were formed.
Bert Hyman
<no...@none.giganews> wrote:
> Bert Hyman added these comments in the current discussion du jour
> ...
>
>>> Palestinians Under Attack
>>
>> Because they're spammers.
>>
> Yeah, they've "spammed" Israel ...
Take the hint and move the discussion to a more appropriate newsgroup.
Followup set.
J. Clarke
Israel developed nuclear weapons long ago. You want to "just remove
Israel" you're going to see softly glowing puddle of green glass where
London used to be.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Stephen Bishop
>In message <5ecem4leotje0d016...@4ax.com>, Stephen Bishop
><nospam...@now.com> writes
>>On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 16:50:00 -0800 (PST), sma...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>Where are the photos of Palestinian terror against innocent Israelis?
>
>There are more photos of Israeli casualties pro rata than Palestinian
>casualties. For every innocent Israeli killed there are 100 innocent
>Palestinians killed.
>
>The only different between the Waffen SS in the Warsaw Getto and the IDF
>in Gaza are the uniforms and the IDF use helecopters.
>
>>There is a simple formula for peace there. It starts with getting
>>over what the United Nations did in 1947
>
>I agree.
>
>>and simply acknowledge
>>Israel's right to exist,
>
>Nope... Just remove Israel. It has committed more war crimes per year
>since it's start than any other country in the world It is in breach
>of more UN resolutions than any other country in the world... or would
>be if the US did not keep Vetoing them
>
>It is developing Nuclear and chemical weapons.. It kills civilians daily
>and confiscates property. It has the worst human rights record on the
>planet.
Methinks you read Palestinian propaganda too much.
Israel has a right to exist, period. There has never been a time when
they have not been under attack by their neighbors. If anything, they
have been too lax in defending themselves.
SMS
> If the major countries of the world are going to support Israel for
> good reasons, or for bad ones, why in Hell bother to stop them from
> blowing Hamas off the planet once and for all? I suppose we could
> blame all this on the Brits for Fucking up the UN-sponsored
> partitioning of old Palistine in 1947 but I don't think that'll
> wash.
It actually goes back further than this. Look back to the Grand Mufti of
Jerusalem and his dealings with the Nazis, as well as his insistence in
1948 that the Arabs all leave Israel after the partition. Blowing Hamas
off the planet isn't as easy as you imply since Israel isn't going to
destroy all of Gaza, with all the innocent civilians, just to get Hamas.
> It makes absolutely NO sense to me to continually force Israel and
> the Arab nation du jour into unenforceable cease fires that we
> already know won't work. And, it makes even less sense to
> continually force Israel and the Arab nation du jour to the peace
> talks table that we already know won't work.
The problem is that Israel can't just go in and end the problem. It's
sending in ground forces at tremendous risk because they have always
tried to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas has no problem with targeting
civilians.
> There ARE moral absolutes in the world, nations have a RIGHT to
> defend themselves, and those who would try to implement their
> avowed plans to destroy Israel need to be taken out. NOW.
And Hamas is smart enough to use civilians as shields, and to launch
rockets from schools, Mosques and hospitals so if Israel retaliates they
can scream about the innocent victims. And you have idiots like Chris H
that either has no understanding of the history of Israel, Palestine,
Hamas, Fatah, and the PLO, or really does understand it but is letting
other feelings get in the way of logic when he posts.
> Or, just stand back the the Israelis will be happy to take care of
> it on their own. NO other plan is going to work, these people have
> been fighting each other for what, 5,000 years at least? So, why
> would anyone be so stupid as to think that UN cease fires or peace
> talks are of any use - let the Israelis turn the desert sand into
> glass if that's what it takes to rid the world of rogue nations,
> terrorists, and Islamic extremists. And, the Hamas.
The people of Gaza didn't ask Hamas to come in and use Gaza for a launch
pad. It's a miserable, crowded place, and you have these various
factions that have no interest in ever bettering the lives of the people
stuck there. The people of Gaza have been brainwashed since at least
1967 into believing that Israel is the reason for their misery. It's
going to take at least as long to re-educate them, if it's even possible
at all.
SneakyP
@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com:
> Palestinians Under Attack
>
>
Waugh waugh WAAAUGH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH
I liken this to taking a shovel full of one fireant hill and dumping it
on another fireant hill.
=================================================
But really, who cares except a certain peoples who declare that one has
to be of their beliefs or be killed?
Guess their beliefs will kill them too, regardless of what they think.
Nobody gets to live then, Muhammad can go eat radioactive dirt.
Nah Nyah nuh nyah NAH!!!! :P~~~~~~@
::poodle of spittle flies onto your hating cheek.
--
SneakyP
To reply: newsgroup only, what's posted in ng stays in ng.
Some choose to swim in the potty bowl of nan-ae rather than flush it
down :0)
Chris H
<no...@none.giganews> writes
>Chris H added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...
>
>> There are more photos of Israeli casualties pro rata than
>> Palestinian casualties. For every innocent Israeli killed there
>> are 100 innocent Palestinians killed.
>
>If the major countries of the world are going to support Israel for
>good reasons, or for bad ones, why in Hell bother to stop them from
>blowing Hamas off the planet once and for all? I suppose we could
>blame all this on the Brits for Fucking up the UN-sponsored
>partitioning of old Palistine in 1947 but I don't think that'll
>wash.
>
>It makes absolutely NO sense to me to continually force Israel and
>the Arab nation du jour into unenforceable cease fires that we
>already know won't work. And, it makes even less sense to
>continually force Israel and the Arab nation du jour to the peace
>talks table that we already know won't work.
>
>There ARE moral absolutes in the world, nations have a RIGHT to
>defend themselves,
IO agree and as Israel was created by invading other peoples countries
and causing all this Get RID OF ISRAEL and you will solve most of the
problems in the ME
>and those who would try to implement their
>avowed plans to destroy Israel need to be taken out. NOW.
Crap Israel is a small piece of real-estate with one of the worst human
rights records on the planet, is developing WMD and attacks other
countries in the region.
>Or, just stand back the the Israelis will be happy to take care of
>it on their own. NO other plan is going to work,
Yes it is ... remove Isreal
Chris H
<jclarke...@cox.net> writes
So you mean Israel has WMD and is a threat to London? That was more
than enough justification for taking out Iraq.
Thanks for the green light,
Chris H
<scharf...@geemail.com> writes
>
>The people of Gaza didn't ask Hamas to come in and use Gaza for a
>launch pad.
Yes they did... they elected them in.
>people of Gaza have been brainwashed since at least 1967 into believing
>that Israel is the reason for their misery. It's going to take at least
as long
>to re-educate them, if it's even possible at all.
You mean it isn't? Who is blockading the Ghetto and behaving like the
Waffen SS?
Chris H
>On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 12:04:27 +0000, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>
>>In message <5ecem4leotje0d016...@4ax.com>, Stephen Bishop
>><nospam...@now.com> writes
>>>On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 16:50:00 -0800 (PST), sma...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>Where are the photos of Palestinian terror against innocent Israelis?
>>
>>There are more photos of Israeli casualties pro rata than Palestinian
>>casualties. For every innocent Israeli killed there are 100 innocent
>>Palestinians killed.
>>
>>The only different between the Waffen SS in the Warsaw Getto and the IDF
>>in Gaza are the uniforms and the IDF use helecopters.
>>
>>>There is a simple formula for peace there. It starts with getting
>>>over what the United Nations did in 1947
>>
>>I agree.
>>
>>>and simply acknowledge
>>>Israel's right to exist,
>>
>>Nope... Just remove Israel. It has committed more war crimes per year
>>since it's start than any other country in the world It is in breach
>>of more UN resolutions than any other country in the world... or would
>>be if the US did not keep Vetoing them
>>
>>It is developing Nuclear and chemical weapons.. It kills civilians daily
>>and confiscates property. It has the worst human rights record on the
>>planet.
>
>Methinks you read Palestinian propaganda too much.
No UN and amnesty and my Parents have been there
>Israel has a right to exist, period.
No it doesn't. Period.
> There has never been a time when
>they have not been under attack by their neighbors.
They have been under attack since they started bombing busses and
killing civilians to set up Israel.
> If anything, they
>have been too lax in defending themselves.
No the Arabs and the world should have stopped Israel forming when it
started massacring Civilians and behaving like the Waffen SS
HEMI - Powered
jour ...
> Methinks you read Palestinian propaganda too much.
>
> Israel has a right to exist, period. There has never been a
> time when they have not been under attack by their neighbors.
> If anything, they have been too lax in defending themselves.
>
The Europeans and Asians are useless in this debate as is the
Toothless Tiger UN, which leaves only the US. WE must do one of two
things: 1) continue to Fuck around with the safety of the world by
allowing the Palestinians to attack Israel or 2) take them out.
Since we have no political stomach for 2), especially with the
Obamanation coming into power in a couple weeks, we can BEST
accomplish the END of the bloodshed by simply doing NOTHING except
let the Israelis blow Hamas off the face of the planet, whether it
is in Gaza or anyplace they have the power to lob missiles at
Israel.
Stephen Bishop
wrote:
You are simply ignorant of the facts about how Israel was created and
what they have struggled against ever since just to survive.
There was never a nation of "Palestine," and Israel never stole
anyone's land. It was created by UN Mandate in 1947 when the land
that the UK won from the Ottoman Empire in the first world war was
partitioned into a Jewish and Palestinian states. The Palestians
didn't want any part of it and rejected the UN mandate, and have been
at war with Israel ever since.
Yes, there were attacks on both sides before the Mandate, but history
shows that it was the Israel who accepted the solution while the
Palestinians did not. They were given only a tiny strip of land, but
that was too much for the other side to accept. So they chose war
over peace.
The fact is that they are the only true democracy in the middle east.
They have every right to exist, just as the Palestinians have every
right to have their own country once they stop the constant attacks
and denial of the Jews a right to a nation in their native land.
Israel is widely believed to have nuclear weapons, yes, but they are
strictly defensive. Don't be surprised if they use them should any
country be foolish enough to attempt a full scale invasion of Israel.
J. Clarke
Godwin. <plonk>
George Kerby
On 1/9/09 8:56 AM, in article Xns9B8E5ABFDD2...@216.250.184.7,
"Bert Hyman" <be...@iphouse.com> wrote:
> In news:Xns9B8E63A6AA7...@216.196.97.131 "HEMI - Powered"
> <no...@none.giganews> wrote:
>
>> Bert Hyman added these comments in the current discussion du jour
>> ...
>>
>>>> Palestinians Under Attack
>>>
>>> Because they're spammers.
>>>
>> Yeah, they've "spammed" Israel ...
>
> Take the hint and move the discussion to a more appropriate newsgroup.
>
Hell, you mean we're supposed to discuss 'photography' in here? REALLY???
Come'ON!!!
go...@my-deja.com
> Palestinians Under Attack
>
> تعرض الشعب الفلسطيني في غزه لظلم رهيب على ايدي القوات الاسرائيليه
>
> Palestinians are exposed for horrible unfairness at the hands of
> Israeli forces.
LOL!!
So how are those thousands of rocket attacks aimed at Israeli
civilians working out? I know a dead Pallie is worth more to the cause
of the local death cult than even a dead Jew as propaganda, but
really, how is it working out?
Hamas/Gaza Pallies chose this path for themselves and forced it on the
Israelis. What did you think was going to happen after thousands of
rockets fired at civilians in Israel? Israel was going to try to take
away the ability of your death cult to fire those rockets. What else
did you expect? That the Israelis wouldn't protect themselves? That
they'd permit the ongoing rocket attacks in perpetuity?
I wonder how the "arab street" would react if Israel were launching
thousands of low-tech missiles on an ongoing basis into Gaza. Ah, I
see. All of a sudden the right to self-defense would be legitimate. I
see.
Well, Hamas and the Gaza Pallies have insisted on the current state of
affairs, so why complain? You love death and you chose this.
Ray Fischer
>There is a simple formula for peace there. It starts with getting
>over what the United Nations did in 1947 and simply acknowledge
>Israel's right to exist, instead of being in a constant state of war
>with them.
And when will Israel accept the Palestinians human and civil rights
and recognize their right to a state of their own?
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
>
>> There are more photos of Israeli casualties pro rata than
>> Palestinian casualties. For every innocent Israeli killed there
>> are 100 innocent Palestinians killed.
>
>If the major countries of the world are going to support Israel for
>good reasons, or for bad ones, why in Hell bother to stop them from
>blowing Hamas off the planet once and for all?
The nazi solution.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
>jour ...
>
>> Methinks you read Palestinian propaganda too much.
>>
>> Israel has a right to exist, period. There has never been a
>> time when they have not been under attack by their neighbors.
>> If anything, they have been too lax in defending themselves.
>>
>The Europeans and Asians are useless in this debate as is the
>Toothless Tiger UN, which leaves only the US. WE must do one of two
>things: 1) continue to Fuck around with the safety of the world by
>allowing the Palestinians to attack Israel or 2) take them out.
You're quite the nazi, aren't you? Killing people seems to be your
solution to any problem.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
George Kerby
On 1/10/09 4:46 PM, in article 49692536$0$1622$742e...@news.sonic.net, "Ray
Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote:
When the rag-head assholes stop lobbing rockets from Elementary schools.
You do remember Elementary schools do you not, Fish-head? Oh wait, no you
don't - you dropped out!
George Kerby
On 1/10/09 4:48 PM, in article 496925aa$0$1622$742e...@news.sonic.net, "Ray
Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote:
Quite the *intelligent* response, Fish-Rot: Godwin's will always do when a
double-digiter simply cannot come up with any form of a decent response...
Stephen Bishop
Just as soon as the Palestinians and other Arabs recognize Israel's
right to exist and quit violating every land-for-peace agreement that
Israel has offered them.
Don't be so naive. The only state that the Palestinians want is one
that has no Jews as next door neighbors.
Ray Fischer
> rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>There is a simple formula for peace there. It starts with getting
>>>over what the United Nations did in 1947 and simply acknowledge
>>>Israel's right to exist, instead of being in a constant state of war
>>>with them.
>>
>>And when will Israel accept the Palestinians human and civil rights
>>and recognize their right to a state of their own?
>
>Just as soon as the Palestinians and other Arabs recognize Israel's
>right to exist and quit violating every land-for-peace agreement that
>Israel has offered them.
In reality that right to exist is already by the Arabs states in the
region and it is Israel violating "land for peace" agreements and
international law by continue to expand into occupied territories.
>Don't be so naive.
Don't be such a bigot.
> The only state that the Palestinians want is one
>that has no Jews as next door neighbors.
That's just your bigoted hate that you use to justify mass killings.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
George Kerby
On 1/11/09 2:31 PM, in article 496a5730$0$1609$742e...@news.sonic.net, "Ray
Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote:
When are you going to call him another name, Fish-head?
Stephen Bishop
>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>> rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>>There is a simple formula for peace there. It starts with getting
>>>>over what the United Nations did in 1947 and simply acknowledge
>>>>Israel's right to exist, instead of being in a constant state of war
>>>>with them.
>>>
>>>And when will Israel accept the Palestinians human and civil rights
>>>and recognize their right to a state of their own?
>>
>>Just as soon as the Palestinians and other Arabs recognize Israel's
>>right to exist and quit violating every land-for-peace agreement that
>>Israel has offered them.
>
>In reality that right to exist is already by the Arabs states in the
>region and it is Israel violating "land for peace" agreements and
>international law by continue to expand into occupied territories.
What are you talking about? What you call "occupied territories" is
merely land that has been won in defensive wars. Israel has given
most of it back, and each time the returned land has been used as
launching areas for attacks against Israeli civilians.
>
>>Don't be so naive.
>
>Don't be such a bigot.
I'm a bigot for recognizing that Israel has a right to exist? (Which
is something you apparently deny.)
>
>> The only state that the Palestinians want is one
>>that has no Jews as next door neighbors.
>
>That's just your bigoted hate that you use to justify mass killings.
You're just uniformed. The Palestinians consider the Jews to be a
cancer on what they think is their land, and they want them either
dead or gone. They are the bigots. Just ask them.
Ray Fischer
>On 11 Jan 2009 20:31:44 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>
>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>> rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>>>There is a simple formula for peace there. It starts with getting
>>>>>over what the United Nations did in 1947 and simply acknowledge
>>>>>Israel's right to exist, instead of being in a constant state of war
>>>>>with them.
>>>>
>>>>And when will Israel accept the Palestinians human and civil rights
>>>>and recognize their right to a state of their own?
>>>
>>>Just as soon as the Palestinians and other Arabs recognize Israel's
>>>right to exist and quit violating every land-for-peace agreement that
>>>Israel has offered them.
>>
>>In reality that right to exist is already by the Arabs states in the
>>region and it is Israel violating "land for peace" agreements and
>>international law by continue to expand into occupied territories.
>
>What are you talking about? What you call "occupied territories" is
>merely land that has been won in defensive wars.
That's a lie. It is NOT part of Israel. It is under military
occupation and Israel routinely violates people's human rights.
> Israel has given
>most of it back,
Steal $1 and give back 55 cents and that makes everything okay?
> and each time the returned land has been used as
>launching areas for attacks against Israeli civilians.
Because Israel has yet to accept any peace deal.
>>>Don't be so naive.
>>
>>Don't be such a bigot.
>
>I'm a bigot for recognizing that Israel has a right to exist?
You're a bigot for blaming Arabs for Israels's crimes.
>>> The only state that the Palestinians want is one
>>>that has no Jews as next door neighbors.
>>
>>That's just your bigoted hate that you use to justify mass killings.
>
>You're just uniformed.
No, you really are a bigot.
> The Palestinians consider the Jews to be a
>cancer on what they think is their land,
That's bigotry. Pure, unadulterated hatred use to justify lies.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Chris H
<13aa33d1-b716-4123...@d36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
go...@my-deja.com writes
>On Jan 8, 4:50 pm, smam...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Palestinians Under Attack
>>
>> تعرض الشعب الفلسطيني في غزه لظلم رهيب على ايدي القوات الاسرائيليه
>>
>> Palestinians are exposed for horrible unfairness at the hands of
>> Israeli forces.
>
>LOL!!
>
>So how are those thousands of rocket attacks aimed at Israeli
>civilians working out?
Nothing like as effective and the tens of thousands of strikes on
Palestinian civilians by the Israelis
> I know a dead Pallie is worth more to the cause
>of the local death cult than even a dead Jew as propaganda, but
>really, how is it working out?
About 100 dead Palestinian civilians fro very dead Israeli. Unlike the
Israelis the Palestinians have been forced in to a Ghetto with no
sanitation,. water and medical aid.
Much like the Waffen SS did for the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto
>Hamas/Gaza Pallies chose this path for themselves and forced it on the
>Israelis.
CRAP this was forced on the Palestinians by the Israelis. What did you
think was going to happen when the Israelis created a Warsaw like Ghetto
in Gaza and cut off the food, water, power and medical aid?
> What did you think was going to happen after thousands of
>rockets fired at civilians in Israel?
You mean what did you think would happen when the Israelis created a
pressure cooker of the Gaza Ghetto and started killing civilians.
>Israel was going to try to take
>away the ability of your death cult to fire those rockets. What else
>did you expect? That the Israelis wouldn't protect themselves? That
>they'd permit the ongoing rocket attacks in perpetuity?
SO you don't expect the Palestinians to protect themselves as best they
can from the IDF mimicking the Waffen SS?
>I wonder how the "arab street" would react if Israel were launching
>thousands of low-tech missiles on an ongoing basis into Gaza. Ah, I
>see.
Actually they launch hundreds of thousands of hi-tech missiles into
Gaza... about 100 for every one the Palestinians fire in response.
> All of a sudden the right to self-defense would be legitimate. I
>see.
Absolutely... You are correct the Palestinians ARE DEFENDING THEMSELVES
AGAINST ISRAELI AGGRESSION
>Well, Hamas and the Gaza Pallies have insisted on the current state of
>affairs, so why complain?
If you look the whole world (bar the US) has condemned the Israeli
actions
>You love death and you chose this.
It is the IDF and Israelis who are murdering civilians.
Stephen Bishop
>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>On 11 Jan 2009 20:31:44 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>
>>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>> rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>>>>There is a simple formula for peace there. It starts with getting
>>>>>>over what the United Nations did in 1947 and simply acknowledge
>>>>>>Israel's right to exist, instead of being in a constant state of war
>>>>>>with them.
>>>>>
>>>>>And when will Israel accept the Palestinians human and civil rights
>>>>>and recognize their right to a state of their own?
>>>>
>>>>Just as soon as the Palestinians and other Arabs recognize Israel's
>>>>right to exist and quit violating every land-for-peace agreement that
>>>>Israel has offered them.
>>>
>>>In reality that right to exist is already by the Arabs states in the
>>>region and it is Israel violating "land for peace" agreements and
>>>international law by continue to expand into occupied territories.
>>
>>What are you talking about? What you call "occupied territories" is
>>merely land that has been won in defensive wars.
>
>That's a lie. It is NOT part of Israel. It is under military
>occupation and Israel routinely violates people's human rights.
Humans don't routinely send rockets and human bombs into populated
civilian areas.
Those "occupied territories" were won in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war.
Please, be consistent in your arguments. I would imagine that you
would equally consider wherever you live to be an "occupied territory"
that should be given back to whatever tribe of Native Americans had it
previously. Or, if you live in California, Texas or Arizona, I
assume you are heading the drive to return that "occupied territory"
back to Mexico?
>
>> Israel has given
>>most of it back,
>
>Steal $1 and give back 55 cents and that makes everything okay?
You just don't know your history very well.
>
>> and each time the returned land has been used as
>>launching areas for attacks against Israeli civilians.
>
>Because Israel has yet to accept any peace deal.
Again, you just don't know your history very well. Israel has been
at peace with Egypt for many years.
>>>>Don't be so naive.
>>>
>>>Don't be such a bigot.
>>
>>I'm a bigot for recognizing that Israel has a right to exist?
>
>You're a bigot for blaming Arabs for Israels's crimes.
Two things in that statement show your ignorance and bigotry:
1. I never blamed the Arabs for anything that Israel has done.
2. Categorizing Israel's right to defend itself as a "crime" is your
own bigoted view
>
>>>> The only state that the Palestinians want is one
>>>>that has no Jews as next door neighbors.
>>>
>>>That's just your bigoted hate that you use to justify mass killings.
>>
>>You're just uniformed.
>
>No, you really are a bigot.
>
>> The Palestinians consider the Jews to be a
>>cancer on what they think is their land,
>
>That's bigotry. Pure, unadulterated hatred use to justify lies.
No, all you have to do is ask any Palestinian or other Muslim in that
part of the world what they think about the Jews having their own
nation on what they consider to be sacred Muslim soil. Go ahead, ask
them. You'll hear bigotry and hatred like you never thought existed.
Stephen Bishop
wrote:
>In message
><13aa33d1-b716-4123...@d36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>go...@my-deja.com writes
>>On Jan 8, 4:50 pm, smam...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Palestinians Under Attack
>>>
>>> تعرض الشعب الفلسطيني في غزه لظلم رهيب على ايدي القوات الاسرائيليه
>>>
>>> Palestinians are exposed for horrible unfairness at the hands of
>>> Israeli forces.
>>
>>LOL!!
>>
>>So how are those thousands of rocket attacks aimed at Israeli
>>civilians working out?
>
>Nothing like as effective and the tens of thousands of strikes on
>Palestinian civilians by the Israelis
As much as you seem to want to believe otherwise, Israel does not
deliberately target civilians. Period.
>
>> I know a dead Pallie is worth more to the cause
>>of the local death cult than even a dead Jew as propaganda, but
>>really, how is it working out?
>
>About 100 dead Palestinian civilians fro very dead Israeli. Unlike the
>Israelis the Palestinians have been forced in to a Ghetto with no
>sanitation,. water and medical aid.
And exactly why is that?
>Much like the Waffen SS did for the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto
No, nothing if the sort. The Nazis' goal was to rid the world of
Jews. Israel's purpose in bottling up Gaza is simply to keep as many
suicide bombers as possible behind locked doors.
>>Hamas/Gaza Pallies chose this path for themselves and forced it on the
>>Israelis.
>
>CRAP this was forced on the Palestinians by the Israelis. What did you
>think was going to happen when the Israelis created a Warsaw like Ghetto
>in Gaza and cut off the food, water, power and medical aid?
What did you think was going to happen when those people have devoted
their lives to destroying the state of Israel ever since it was
created in 1947?
>
>> What did you think was going to happen after thousands of
>>rockets fired at civilians in Israel?
>
>You mean what did you think would happen when the Israelis created a
>pressure cooker of the Gaza Ghetto and started killing civilians.
>
>>Israel was going to try to take
>>away the ability of your death cult to fire those rockets. What else
>>did you expect? That the Israelis wouldn't protect themselves? That
>>they'd permit the ongoing rocket attacks in perpetuity?
>
>SO you don't expect the Palestinians to protect themselves as best they
>can from the IDF mimicking the Waffen SS?
Lobbing a constant barrage of rockets at civilian population centers
has nothing to do with self protection.
>
>>I wonder how the "arab street" would react if Israel were launching
>>thousands of low-tech missiles on an ongoing basis into Gaza. Ah, I
>>see.
>
>Actually they launch hundreds of thousands of hi-tech missiles into
>Gaza... about 100 for every one the Palestinians fire in response.
Please be specific, how would you respond if your neighbor were
constantly shooting bullets at your house and constantly denied your
right to exist and nobody else would deal with the situation?
>> All of a sudden the right to self-defense would be legitimate. I
>>see.
>
>Absolutely... You are correct the Palestinians ARE DEFENDING THEMSELVES
>AGAINST ISRAELI AGGRESSION
>
>>Well, Hamas and the Gaza Pallies have insisted on the current state of
>>affairs, so why complain?
>
>If you look the whole world (bar the US) has condemned the Israeli
>actions
>
>>You love death and you chose this.
>
>It is the IDF and Israelis who are murdering civilians.
That's the propaganda. You keep swallowing it.
Chris H
<nospam...@now.com> writes
>On 12 Jan 2009 03:13:36 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>
>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>On 11 Jan 2009 20:31:44 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>
>>>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>>> rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>>>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>There is a simple formula for peace there. It starts with getting
>>>>>>>over what the United Nations did in 1947 and simply acknowledge
>>>>>>>Israel's right to exist, instead of being in a constant state of war
>>>>>>>with them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And when will Israel accept the Palestinians human and civil rights
>>>>>>and recognize their right to a state of their own?
>>>>>
>>>>>Just as soon as the Palestinians and other Arabs recognize Israel's
>>>>>right to exist and quit violating every land-for-peace agreement that
>>>>>Israel has offered them.
>>>>
>>>>In reality that right to exist is already by the Arabs states in the
>>>>region and it is Israel violating "land for peace" agreements and
>>>>international law by continue to expand into occupied territories.
>>>
>>>What are you talking about? What you call "occupied territories" is
>>>merely land that has been won in defensive wars.
>>
>>That's a lie. It is NOT part of Israel. It is under military
>>occupation and Israel routinely violates people's human rights.
>
>Humans don't routinely send rockets and human bombs into populated
>civilian areas.
The Israelis do at about 10 times the rate Hamas do. The difference
being the Israeli ones are precision guided and are directed at
civilians.
>Those "occupied territories" were won in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war.
And so Occupied by Military Force.
Chris H
<nospam...@now.com> writes
>>Palestinian civilians by the Israelis
>
>As much as you seem to want to believe otherwise, Israel does not
>deliberately target civilians. Period.
With lines line that no one will take anything you say seriously
You have no evidence to support that but there is much evidence to the
contrary from many independent sources.
Several filmed by TV crews.
Actually apart from the several documented and irrefutable incidents of
the IDF shooing at civilians (and specifically children) and clearly UN
targets the IDf does not really care one way or the other who is in the
area if they want to fire at a suspected target.
Incidentally I note the whole of the UN disagrees with you .... except
the US who also have no problem with shooting civilians.
>>> I know a dead Pallie is worth more to the cause
>>>of the local death cult than even a dead Jew as propaganda, but
>>>really, how is it working out?
>>
>>About 100 dead Palestinian civilians fro very dead Israeli. Unlike the
>>Israelis the Palestinians have been forced in to a Ghetto with no
>>sanitation,. water and medical aid.
>
>And exactly why is that?
Because the Israelis use Waffen SS tactics and do not care about killing
civilians. In fact it appears to be intentional and orchestrated
genocide of civilians. It fits the patter of the Israeli government and
IDF for the last 60 years.
>>Much like the Waffen SS did for the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto
>
>No, nothing if the sort. The Nazis' goal was to rid the world of
>Jews. Israel's purpose in bottling up Gaza is simply to keep as many
>suicide bombers as possible behind locked doors.
CRAP. The Israelis can say what they like it is what they do that
counts. They are behaving like the Waffen SS
>>>Hamas/Gaza Pallies chose this path for themselves and forced it on the
>>>Israelis.
>>
>>CRAP this was forced on the Palestinians by the Israelis. What did you
>>think was going to happen when the Israelis created a Warsaw like Ghetto
>>in Gaza and cut off the food, water, power and medical aid?
>
>What did you think was going to happen when those people have devoted
>their lives to destroying the state of Israel ever since it was
>created in 1947?
SO Genocide is OK when you steal land and kill civilians.
>>SO you don't expect the Palestinians to protect themselves as best they
>>can from the IDF mimicking the Waffen SS?
>
>Lobbing a constant barrage of rockets at civilian population centers
>has nothing to do with self protection.
Quite so. So Israel should stop and the Hamas would not need to defend
itself wit the few rockets it has,.
>>>I wonder how the "arab street" would react if Israel were launching
>>>thousands of low-tech missiles on an ongoing basis into Gaza. Ah, I
>>>see.
>>Actually they launch hundreds of thousands of hi-tech missiles into
>>Gaza... about 100 for every one the Palestinians fire in response.
>Please be specific, how would you respond if your neighbor were
>constantly shooting bullets at your house and constantly denied your
>right to exist and nobody else would deal with the situation?
I would respond exactly as Hamas has done with the weapons at hand.
Clearly Isreal has no problem with genocide and killing civilians so I
would not see any problem with firing back in similar manner. Which is
what Hamas is doing as it's only defence against genocide.
>>> All of a sudden the right to self-defense would be legitimate. I
>>>see.
>>
>>Absolutely... You are correct the Palestinians ARE DEFENDING THEMSELVES
>>AGAINST ISRAELI AGGRESSION
>>
>>>Well, Hamas and the Gaza Pallies have insisted on the current state of
>>>affairs, so why complain?
>>
>>If you look the whole world (bar the US) has condemned the Israeli
>>actions
>>
>>>You love death and you chose this.
>>
>>It is the IDF and Israelis who are murdering civilians.
>
>That's the propaganda. You keep swallowing it.
Sorry... As a military person who has been to the ME and members of my
family (who are all WASP) who have been to Israel I have seen the
reality. Also the film from independent news teams does not lie or is
EVERY non-Israeli /US in the world that reports from Isreal lying and in
a conspiracy?
go...@my-deja.com
> g...@my-deja.com writes
This is the kind of person to avoid in real life. Defective. Has no
regard for truth. Hate hate hate and lie lie lie. A horrible person.
Really stunning how vile he is.
Chris H
<86db0ace-fd07-4060...@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
go...@my-deja.com writes
Which bit did I get wrong?
HEMI - Powered
>>As much as you seem to want to believe otherwise, Israel does
>>not deliberately target civilians. Period.
>
> With lines line that no one will take anything you say seriously
Just curious, but so what if Israel deliberately targets civilians.
First, this is WAR. Second, Hamas intentionally targets THEIR
civilians. Third, use of terror is a VERY effective tool in
fighting a despot or a terrorist/rogue nation or group.
The entire deal with Israel boils down to this: they have the right
to exist, NO ONE has the right to declare that they intend to
destroy them without inviting military retaliation. Moreover,
Israel is the ONLY major world nation that has to continually
justify why it has the right to defend itself against terrorist
entities like Palestians whether it is the old PLO or the modern
Hamas.
As I've said, the OTHER major nations in the world AND the UN need
to do one of only TWO things to resolve this: 1) take decisive
action unilaterally or in a coalition to destroy Hamas and END the
missile attacks which number some 3,000 in just the last year or 2)
just stand back and let the Israelis destroy them.
It makes NO sense to continually declare cease fires that neither
side will obey just as it makes NO sense to continually force
Israel and whatever Arab/Palestian terrorist group that wants to
destroy them to the bargaining table. There can be ONLY ONE
effective solution to the Hamas bombings - destroy THEM in the most
brutal fashion possible as a deterrant to OTHER rogue nations or
groups bent on their destruction.
> You have no evidence to support that but there is much evidence
> to the contrary from many independent sources.
> Several filmed by TV crews.
>
> Actually apart from the several documented and irrefutable
> incidents of the IDF shooing at civilians (and specifically
> children) and clearly UN targets the IDf does not really care
> one way or the other who is in the area if they want to fire at
> a suspected target.
Let me see, what did the "civilized" countries do during, say,
WWII. Oh, we bombed cities to the ground but worse, we bombed them
with incendiaries that were ONLY intended to kill civilians and
scare the shit out of those not killed. Very effective tool,
intentional civilian casualties.
> Incidentally I note the whole of the UN disagrees with you ....
> except the US who also have no problem with shooting civilians.
One more time: NO ONE gives a flying Fuck what the UN says or does.
All the member nations are there only to look good and NOT to be an
effective force for peace and goodwill. If you believe otherwise,
then explain this: why doesn't this toothless tiger of all the
countries who decry Israel's right to defend itself from civilian
attack not form a coalition and HELP them destroy Hamas?
>
>>And exactly why is that?
>
> Because the Israelis use Waffen SS tactics and do not care about
> killing civilians. In fact it appears to be intentional and
> orchestrated genocide of civilians. It fits the patter of the
> Israeli government and IDF for the last 60 years.
Again, so what? ALL countries who fight wars intentionally kill
civilians IF said civilians are within proximity to military
targets and/or there is strategic or tactical advantage to
terrorisg civilians in the hope they will stop the war within their
own country. There has not been ONE war fought in the last several
hundred years that did not fight this way.
But, you Brits are entirely responsible for the mess over there by
arbitrarily partitioning the old state of Palestine in 1947
intentionally stranding Jews on the new Palestian side and Arabs in
the new state of Israel. And, Jeruselem, claimed by both sides, is
on the wrong side of the partition line. It shouldn't be a suprise
at all, but apparently is, that these people have been fighting
BEFORE Bibilical Times, so what led you Brits to assume that the
fighting would stop only because this time YOU and the UN caused
it?
>
>>What did you think was going to happen when those people have
>>devoted their lives to destroying the state of Israel ever since
>>it was created in 1947?
>
> SO Genocide is OK when you steal land and kill civilians.
>
No, genocide is not OK, but this is NOT what is happening. As in
all the wars and military skirmishes that the Israelis have fought
since 1947, ALL had military purposes which were to STOP the Arabs,
Palestians, Egyptians, whomever from attacking them. Since you like
to quote the UN, the UN Charter permits ALL member nations to wage
war in defense of their homeland.
War isn't a pretty thing, which is why I detest the bullshit
euphemism "collateral damage". So what if some Gaza civilians get
blown up? They can CHOOSE to STOP supporting Hamas and THEN a cease
fire will work.
>>Lobbing a constant barrage of rockets at civilian population
>>centers has nothing to do with self protection.
>
> Quite so. So Israel should stop and the Hamas would not need to
> defend itself wit the few rockets it has,.
No, Israel should stop jousting with Hamas, invade them, attack
them by air, and utterly and completely destroy them. They should
take whatever land is due to them and fence off the rest. And, the
Israelis should continue to attack and destroy ALL their enemies in
the Middle East. The UN, your country, mine, all of them say they
are allies of Israel but are really cowards since there's this
thing called oil over there, and the Israelis don't have any but
our allies, like those nice people in Saudi Arabia, do have it. So,
why aren't you outraged that the Saudies, Kuwaitis, and others, are
so brutal to women and run counter to the vaunted UN Universal
Declaration of Human Rights?
>
> I would respond exactly as Hamas has done with the weapons at
> hand. Clearly Isreal has no problem with genocide and killing
> civilians so I would not see any problem with firing back in
> similar manner. Which is what Hamas is doing as it's only
> defence against genocide.
Why? Hamas is intentionally killing Israelis, don't they know they
face devastating retalliation? Again, I say if the UN doesn't have
the stomach to fix this, just stand aside and let the Israelis kill
ALL the Hamas it needs to until they stop sending missiles into
Israel.
>
> Sorry... As a military person who has been to the ME and members
> of my family (who are all WASP) who have been to Israel I have
> seen the reality. Also the film from independent news teams
> does not lie or is EVERY non-Israeli /US in the world that
> reports from Isreal lying and in a conspiracy?
>
Again, so what?! Why doesn't YOUR country do something to HELP
Israel by economic and political sanctions against Hamas and YOUR
military forces to stop the missile attacks? Don't like that, then
let the Israelis do it themselves. They DO have the right to defend
themselves. Sherman said it best, "war is hell" and it doesn't
really matter what form the casualties take so long as terrorism
and aggression are stopped.
--
Jerry, aka HP
"Accuracy is the degree a measurement meets a known or true value
while precision is the degree of reproducibility in the measurement
itself" - Mathematical definition
Chris H
<no...@none.supernews> writes
>Chris H added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...
>
>>>As much as you seem to want to believe otherwise, Israel does
>>>not deliberately target civilians. Period.
>>
>> With lines line that no one will take anything you say seriously
>
>Just curious, but so what if Israel deliberately targets civilians.
>First, this is WAR
Thanks for clarifying that. So Israel has declared war on the
Palestinians?
>. Second, Hamas intentionally targets THEIR
>civilians.
That is not correct.
>Third, use of terror is a VERY effective tool in
>fighting a despot or a terrorist/rogue nation or group.
We it worked against the US and seems to be having an effect against
Israel
>The entire deal with Israel boils down to this: they have the right
>to exist, NO ONE has the right to declare that they intend to
>destroy them without inviting military retaliation.
Quite so which is why the Palestinians are fighting back against the
IDF/SS
> Moreover,
>Israel is the ONLY major world nation that has to continually
>justify why it has the right to defend itself
Not at all. It is the only country that since day 1 has been on the
offensive and tried to claim it was being defensive.
>against terrorist
>entities like Palestians whether it is the old PLO or the modern
>Hamas.
Hamas is not a terrorist organisation.
>As I've said, the OTHER major nations in the world AND the UN need
>to do one of only TWO things to resolve this: 1) take decisive
>action unilaterally or in a coalition to destroy
Israel and the whole middle east would settle down.
> Hamas and END the
>missile attacks which number some 3,000 in just the last year or
Israel fire far more munitions into the concentrated civilian area of
Gaza
> 2)
>just stand back and let the Israelis destroy them.
The Palestinians have a right to exist in their homeland. I suggest were
remove the Israelis from it.
>It makes NO sense to continually declare cease fires that neither
>side will obey just as it makes NO sense to continually force
>Israel
Who want to destroy civilians and remove them from their homeland
>and whatever Arab/Palestian terrorist group that wants to
>destroy them to the bargaining table.
Quite so. The simple option is to remove the interlopers who have been
murdering civilians for the last 60 years, the Israelis, and leave
the original inhabitants in peace.
>There can be ONLY ONE
>effective solution to the Hamas bombings - destroy THEM in the most
>brutal fashion possible as a deterrant to OTHER rogue nations or
>groups bent on their destruction.
As far as most of the world including many Jews in the UK who spoke out
this week end are concerned the rogue nation here is Israel
>> except the US who also have no problem with shooting civilians.
>
>One more time: NO ONE gives a flying Fuck what the UN says or does.
Only rogue nations say that.
>then explain this: why doesn't this toothless tiger of all the
>countries who decry Israel's right to defend itself from civilian
>attack not form a coalition and HELP them destroy Hamas?
If you look the whole security council (except the US) decided Isreal
was wrong.
>But, you Brits are entirely responsible for the mess over there by
>arbitrarily partitioning the old state of Palestine in 1947
I think you are right. We should never have permitted a Jewish state
then there would not have been all this bloodshed.
The problem is people confused religion with race. Do all Catholics
have a right to live in Italy? Do all Moslems have a right to live in
Saudi?
>>>Lobbing a constant barrage of rockets at civilian population
>>>centers has nothing to do with self protection.
>>
>> Quite so. So Israel should stop and the Hamas would not need to
>> defend itself wit the few rockets it has,.
>
>No, Israel should stop jousting with Hamas, invade them, attack
>them by air, and utterly and completely destroy them.
So you are advocating the slaughter of civilians? There are no military
targets in Gaza. You seem bent on Genocide.
> They should
>take whatever land is due to them and fence off the rest.
I agree... they should hand back ALL the land they have taken that was
not theirs in 1946
> And, the
>Israelis should continue to attack and destroy ALL their enemies in
>the Middle East.
Then the ME countries should do the same to Israel and if the US even
things about supporting Israel it will be the end of the US. Is that
worth it?
>> I would respond exactly as Hamas has done with the weapons at
>> hand. Clearly Isreal has no problem with genocide and killing
>> civilians so I would not see any problem with firing back in
>> similar manner. Which is what Hamas is doing as it's only
>> defence against genocide.
>
>Why? Hamas is intentionally killing Israelis, don't they know they
>face devastating retalliation? Again, I say if the UN doesn't have
>the stomach to fix this, just stand aside and let the Israelis kill
>ALL the Hamas it needs to until they stop sending missiles into
>Israel.
So your answer is invade and genocide. What if the friends of the
Palestinians do the same... Russia, China, Iran, Iraq . France etc etc
>Again, so what?! Why doesn't YOUR country do something to HELP
I would suggest we do help.
>Israel by economic and political sanctions
Yep sanctions against Israel are a good idea.
> and YOUR
>military forces to stop the missile attacks?
What shoot down the Israeli planes>
>They DO have the right to defend
>themselves. Sherman said it best, "war is hell" and it doesn't
>really matter what form the casualties take so long as terrorism
>and aggression are stopped.
Which is why Hamas the legally elected civilian power is fighting
against the oppressors
Stephen Bishop
wrote:
>In message <5l8mm45f8qrn9282s...@4ax.com>, Stephen Bishop
Wrong. They are directed at Hamas leaders and forces who surround
themselves with civilians in their sick attempt to gain sympathy and
accuse the Israelis of targeting civilians.
>
>>Those "occupied territories" were won in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war.
>
>And so Occupied by Military Force.
Yes, that's usually what happens when you win territory in a war. In
their case, it was a war of defense, not conquest.
Stephen Bishop
wrote:
>In message <5k9mm4lmlkia6bfd9...@4ax.com>, Stephen Bishop
><nospam...@now.com> writes
>>On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:25:35 +0000, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>>wrote:
>>>Nothing like as effective and the tens of thousands of strikes on
>>>Palestinian civilians by the Israelis
>>
>>As much as you seem to want to believe otherwise, Israel does not
>>deliberately target civilians. Period.
>
>With lines line that no one will take anything you say seriously
You mean like your silly Waffen SS line that you keep repeating?
>
>You have no evidence to support that but there is much evidence to the
>contrary from many independent sources.
>Several filmed by TV crews.
TV crews and "independent sources" have a habit of filming and
reporting only what they want you to see.
>
>Actually apart from the several documented and irrefutable incidents of
>the IDF shooing at civilians (and specifically children) and clearly UN
>targets the IDf does not really care one way or the other who is in the
>area if they want to fire at a suspected target.
I would think that is only because the Hamas militants don't care who
gets in the way when they hide behind civilians. What do you expect
to happen when they launch rockets from schools and store weapons in
mosques? That Israel will just allow that to keep happening?
>
>Incidentally I note the whole of the UN disagrees with you .... except
>the US who also have no problem with shooting civilians.
That's a completely irrational and stupid statement.
>
>>>> I know a dead Pallie is worth more to the cause
>>>>of the local death cult than even a dead Jew as propaganda, but
>>>>really, how is it working out?
>>>
>>>About 100 dead Palestinian civilians fro very dead Israeli. Unlike the
>>>Israelis the Palestinians have been forced in to a Ghetto with no
>>>sanitation,. water and medical aid.
>>
>>And exactly why is that?
>
>Because the Israelis use Waffen SS tactics and do not care about killing
>civilians. In fact it appears to be intentional and orchestrated
>genocide of civilians. It fits the patter of the Israeli government and
>IDF for the last 60 years.
Trust me, if a country with a military force as good as Israel's was
interested in genocide, there would not be any Palestinians left alive
in those areas. They would have been gone long ago.
>
>>>Much like the Waffen SS did for the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto
>>
>>No, nothing if the sort. The Nazis' goal was to rid the world of
>>Jews. Israel's purpose in bottling up Gaza is simply to keep as many
>>suicide bombers as possible behind locked doors.
>
>CRAP. The Israelis can say what they like it is what they do that
>counts. They are behaving like the Waffen SS
Hardly.
>
>>>>Hamas/Gaza Pallies chose this path for themselves and forced it on the
>>>>Israelis.
>>>
>>>CRAP this was forced on the Palestinians by the Israelis. What did you
>>>think was going to happen when the Israelis created a Warsaw like Ghetto
>>>in Gaza and cut off the food, water, power and medical aid?
>>
>>What did you think was going to happen when those people have devoted
>>their lives to destroying the state of Israel ever since it was
>>created in 1947?
>
>SO Genocide is OK when you steal land and kill civilians.
You're making the statement that genocide is fact when it is nonsense.
>
>
>>>SO you don't expect the Palestinians to protect themselves as best they
>>>can from the IDF mimicking the Waffen SS?
>>
>>Lobbing a constant barrage of rockets at civilian population centers
>>has nothing to do with self protection.
>
>Quite so. So Israel should stop and the Hamas would not need to defend
>itself wit the few rockets it has,.
Hamas was shooting those rockets long before the IDF began their
military action in Gaza. They have been targeting civilian areas,
not Israeli military targets. You're a fool if you actually believe
they are "defending themselves" by shooting rockets into populated
civilian areas.
>
>
>>>>I wonder how the "arab street" would react if Israel were launching
>>>>thousands of low-tech missiles on an ongoing basis into Gaza. Ah, I
>>>>see.
>>>Actually they launch hundreds of thousands of hi-tech missiles into
>>>Gaza... about 100 for every one the Palestinians fire in response.
>>Please be specific, how would you respond if your neighbor were
>>constantly shooting bullets at your house and constantly denied your
>>right to exist and nobody else would deal with the situation?
>
>I would respond exactly as Hamas has done with the weapons at hand.
>Clearly Isreal has no problem with genocide and killing civilians so I
>would not see any problem with firing back in similar manner. Which is
>what Hamas is doing as it's only defence against genocide.
Except it is Israel who has been doing the responding to the constant
barrage of rockets, not the other way around.
>
>
>>>> All of a sudden the right to self-defense would be legitimate. I
>>>>see.
>>>
>>>Absolutely... You are correct the Palestinians ARE DEFENDING THEMSELVES
>>>AGAINST ISRAELI AGGRESSION
>>>
>>>>Well, Hamas and the Gaza Pallies have insisted on the current state of
>>>>affairs, so why complain?
>>>
>>>If you look the whole world (bar the US) has condemned the Israeli
>>>actions
>>>
>>>>You love death and you chose this.
>>>
>>>It is the IDF and Israelis who are murdering civilians.
>>
>>That's the propaganda. You keep swallowing it.
>
>
>Sorry... As a military person who has been to the ME and members of my
>family (who are all WASP) who have been to Israel I have seen the
>reality. Also the film from independent news teams does not lie or is
>EVERY non-Israeli /US in the world that reports from Isreal lying and in
>a conspiracy?
Yes. There are people with axes to grind all over.
The bottom line is that there will be no peace until the Muslims in
that part of the world grant Israel the right to exist and stop the
random terrorist attacks against civilians. Egypt and Israel
negotiated peace and it has held. The other countries involved need
to follow suit and then the Palestinian question can be addressed in a
peaceful way.
Stephen Bishop
wrote:
>
>>against terrorist
>>entities like Palestians whether it is the old PLO or the modern
>>Hamas.
>
>Hamas is not a terrorist organisation.
>
With just that one statement you've laid down your cards.
Are you saying, then, that Hamas is not responsible for the constant
rocket attacks into civilian areas of Israel?
Ray Fischer
Israel does.
>Those "occupied territories" were won in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war.
And Poland was won by the nazis in 1939.
>Please, be consistent in your arguments.
I have been. Perhaps you no longer knwo what "consistent" is given
the torturous dislogic you use to justify crimes.
> I would imagine that you
You would imagine wrong.
>>> Israel has given
>>>most of it back,
>>
>>Steal $1 and give back 55 cents and that makes everything okay?
>
>You just don't know your history very well.
Better than do you.
>>> and each time the returned land has been used as
>>>launching areas for attacks against Israeli civilians.
>>
>>Because Israel has yet to accept any peace deal.
>
>Again, you just don't know your history very well.
Better than do you.
> Israel has been
>at peace with Egypt for many years.
Just not with the people that they oppress.
>>>>>Don't be so naive.
>>>>
>>>>Don't be such a bigot.
>>>
>>>I'm a bigot for recognizing that Israel has a right to exist?
>>
>>You're a bigot for blaming Arabs for Israels's crimes.
>
>Two things in that statement show your ignorance and bigotry:
>
>1. I never blamed the Arabs for anything that Israel has done.
Except that you blame them for being killed by Israel.
>2. Categorizing Israel's right to defend itself as a "crime" is your
>own bigoted view
Now you're lying your bigoted ass off.
Killing innocent people en masse is NOT defending oneself.
>>>>> The only state that the Palestinians want is one
>>>>>that has no Jews as next door neighbors.
>>>>
>>>>That's just your bigoted hate that you use to justify mass killings.
>>>
>>>You're just uniformed.
>>
>>No, you really are a bigot.
>>
>>> The Palestinians consider the Jews to be a
>>>cancer on what they think is their land,
>>
>>That's bigotry. Pure, unadulterated hatred use to justify lies.
>
>No,
YOU ARE A LIAR!
> all you have to do is ask any Palestinian or other Muslim in that
And what of the Israeli Jews who want to murder Palestinians and drive
them out of the occupied territories? Do they represent Israel? Do
they represent YOUR views?
I can ask MANY Arabs or Palestinians to find that you are lying.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
And so the disgusting bigot justifies war crimes.
Just like the nazis excused the deaths of Jews by claiming that they
died of disease and hunger because of the Allied invasion.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
>On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:25:35 +0000, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>wrote:
>
>>In message
>><13aa33d1-b716-4123...@d36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>>go...@my-deja.com writes
>>>On Jan 8, 4:50 pm, smam...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> Palestinians Under Attack
>>>>
>>>> تعرض الشعب الفلسطيني في غزه لظلم رهيب على ايدي القوات الاسرائيليه
>>>>
>>>> Palestinians are exposed for horrible unfairness at the hands of
>>>> Israeli forces.
>>>
>>>LOL!!
>>>
>>>So how are those thousands of rocket attacks aimed at Israeli
>>>civilians working out?
>>
>>Nothing like as effective and the tens of thousands of strikes on
>>Palestinian civilians by the Israelis
>
>As much as you seem to want to believe otherwise, Israel does not
>deliberately target civilians. Period.
Just like dropping a nuclear bomb on Hiroshima didn't deliberately
target civilians.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Stephen Bishop
Typical Ray response. Accusations with no facts to back them up.
Stephen Bishop
And the bigoted Ray cannot see his own bigotry because he is blinded
by his misplaced sense of self-righteousness. But in typical Ray
fashion, he stoops to childish name-calling when he doesn't agree with
someone.
Let me know when the Israelis set up death camps and actually start
exterminating people. Then you may have some credibility. Until
then, you're just parrotting more Palestinian propaganda.
Stephen Bishop
Israel didn't do that.
Oh, and don't forget Nagasaki in your self-righteous rant.
It sounds like you are one of those anti-semitic bigots who believes
the Jews are behind every evil in the world. Seig Heil, Ray!
Chris H
<nospam...@now.com> writes
>>>>s.
>>>
>>>Humans don't routinely send rockets and human bombs into populated
>>>civilian areas.
>>
>>The Israelis do at about 10 times the rate Hamas do. The difference
>>being the Israeli ones are precision guided and are directed at
>>civilians.
>
>Wrong. They are directed at Hamas leaders and forces who surround
>themselves with civilians in their sick attempt to gain sympathy and
>accuse the Israelis of targeting civilians.
Now that is interesting because ALL the independent reports from several
organisations have documented cases of the Israeli IDF using human
shields but there is no independent evidence of Hamas doing it...
Actually the IDF has murdered some 400 women and children in the last 3
weeks (of the 900 Palestinians killed) in response to the Hamas freedom
fighters killing a huge number of 13 Israelis.
>>>Those "occupied territories" were won in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war.
>>
>>And so Occupied by Military Force.
>
>Yes, that's usually what happens when you win territory in a war. In
>their case, it was a war of defense, not conquest.
So explain how from 1945 this was an Israeli war of defence?
Chris H
They have done that There were the two camps a few years ago where they
held the perimeter and put ho illumination so a local (Israeli back)
militia could murder the Civilians. Now the set up Gaza as a Ghetto.
>Then you may have some credibility. Until
>then, you're just parrotting more Palestinian propaganda.
Actually all of it is usually verified by several agencies like the Red
Cross, Amnesty, UN and multiple independent news agencies where as the
Israeli claims are not usually backed up by anyone else and often
independent sources are at odds with them
If anyone is pouting propaganda it is you
Chris H
<nospam...@now.com> writes
>On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:52:54 +0000, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>>against terrorist
>>>entities like Palestians whether it is the old PLO or the modern
>>>Hamas.
>>
>>Hamas is not a terrorist organisation.
>>
>
>With just that one statement you've laid down your cards.
It is a properly elected authority in Gaza. Their election is more
solid than the last one GWB engineered.
>Are you saying, then, that Hamas is not responsible for the constant
>rocket attacks into civilian areas of Israel?
Their small response killing 13 was in response to the Israelis killing
900 civilians including 400 women and children
Whilst there is no independent evidence of Hamas using civilian shields
I note that several independent international (and non-islamic/arab)
agencies all have documented evidence of the IDF using civilian human
shields, shelling medical and UN posts and deliberately killing
civilians.
Chris H
>On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:57:50 +0000, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <5k9mm4lmlkia6bfd9...@4ax.com>, Stephen Bishop
>><nospam...@now.com> writes
>>>On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:25:35 +0000, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>>>wrote:
>>>>Nothing like as effective and the tens of thousands of strikes on
>>>>Palestinian civilians by the Israelis
>>>
>>>As much as you seem to want to believe otherwise, Israel does not
>>>deliberately target civilians. Period.
>>
>>With lines line that no one will take anything you say seriously
>
>You mean like your silly Waffen SS line that you keep repeating?
No others have said the same including many international agencies and I
note the Israeli cabinet have woken up to the fact that many of them are
now in line for international war crimes trials and when Bush goes the
US will not protect them
>>You have no evidence to support that but there is much evidence to the
>>contrary from many independent sources.
>>Several filmed by TV crews.
>
>TV crews and "independent sources" have a habit of filming and
>reporting only what they want you to see.
I see... as the US often claims ALL the worlds press ant media (except
Fox News ) are in a concerted Anti- Israeli conspiracy...
Interestingly no one else seems to think this.
>>Actually apart from the several documented and irrefutable incidents of
>>the IDF shooing at civilians (and specifically children) and clearly UN
>>targets the IDf does not really care one way or the other who is in the
>>area if they want to fire at a suspected target.
>
>I would think that is only because the Hamas militants don't care who
>gets in the way when they hide behind civilians. What do you expect
>to happen when they launch rockets from schools and store weapons in
>mosques? That Israel will just allow that to keep happening?
Now none of that have even had any proof or evidence to back it up.
However over the last 2 weeks *SEVERAL* separate and highly respected
international organisations have provided documentary and irrefutable
evidence that the IDF does use civilian human shields including woman
and children, has targeted civilians. (I have seen that myself) and
shelled medical and UN posts.
>>Incidentally I note the whole of the UN disagrees with you .... except
>>the US who also have no problem with shooting civilians.
>
>That's a completely irrational and stupid statement.
It is factual and been proved many times.
>>>>Much like the Waffen SS did for the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto
>>>
>>>No, nothing if the sort. The Nazis' goal was to rid the world of
>>>Jews. Israel's purpose in bottling up Gaza is simply to keep as many
>>>suicide bombers as possible behind locked doors.
>>
>>CRAP. The Israelis can say what they like it is what they do that
>>counts. They are behaving like the Waffen SS
>
>Hardly.
Just look at the comparisons to the Warsaw Ghetto.. Though youi will not
be able to do that as it require looking at reality.
>>SO Genocide is OK when you steal land and kill civilians.
>
>You're making the statement that genocide is fact when it is nonsense.
Not according to the UN, Red Cross (not the Red Crescent who you would
say are biased) and Amnesty international
>>>>SO you don't expect the Palestinians to protect themselves as best they
>>>>can from the IDF mimicking the Waffen SS?
>>>
>>>Lobbing a constant barrage of rockets at civilian population centers
>>>has nothing to do with self protection.
>>
>>Quite so. So Israel should stop and the Hamas would not need to defend
>>itself wit the few rockets it has,.
>Hamas was shooting those rockets long before the IDF began their
>military action in Gaza.
This is not true... I suggest you start again with the Basics. Hamas is
a relatively new organisation that grew out of one of the other IDF
killing sprees.
> They have been targeting civilian areas,
>not Israeli military targets. You're a fool if you actually believe
>they are "defending themselves" by shooting rockets into populated
>civilian areas.
Well for every rocket Hamas fires the IDF fires 100 Precision guided
munitions (which explains why for 13 dead Israelis there are over 400
Palestinian women and children dead. )
Hamas are firing in self defence against Israeli aggression
>>>>>I wonder how the "arab street" would react if Israel were launching
>>>>>thousands of low-tech missiles on an ongoing basis into Gaza. Ah, I
>>>>>see.
>>>>Actually they launch hundreds of thousands of hi-tech missiles into
>>>>Gaza... about 100 for every one the Palestinians fire in response.
>>>Please be specific, how would you respond if your neighbor were
>>>constantly shooting bullets at your house and constantly denied your
>>>right to exist and nobody else would deal with the situation?
>>
>>I would respond exactly as Hamas has done with the weapons at hand.
>>Clearly Isreal has no problem with genocide and killing civilians so I
>>would not see any problem with firing back in similar manner. Which is
>>what Hamas is doing as it's only defence against genocide.
>
>Except it is Israel who has been doing the responding to the constant
>barrage of rockets, not the other way around.
Not at all the IDF was murdering civilians long before Hamas turned up
>>>>
>>>>It is the IDF and Israelis who are murdering civilians.
>>>
>>>That's the propaganda. You keep swallowing it.
>>
>>
>>Sorry... As a military person who has been to the ME and members of my
>>family (who are all WASP) who have been to Israel I have seen the
>>reality. Also the film from independent news teams does not lie or is
>>EVERY non-Israeli /US in the world that reports from Isreal lying and in
>>a conspiracy?
>
>
>Yes. There are people with axes to grind all over.
>
>The bottom line is that there will be no peace until the Muslims in
>that part of the world grant Israel the right to exist and stop the
>random terrorist attacks against civilians. Egypt and Israel
>negotiated peace and it has held. The other countries involved need
>to follow suit and then the Palestinian question can be addressed in a
>peaceful way.
No the other hand as Israel is in breach of more UN resolutions and most
of its leaders are likely to be on war crimes trials and it has
murdered many thousands of civilians and Israel has from day one
committed war crimes lets remove Israel and ship them to somewhere like
Arizona where they and the US can continue their un-holy alliance.
Israel lost long ago any moral high ground or support from the rest of
the world though their own actions. ,
George Kerby
On 1/13/09 3:00 AM, in article 496c5811$0$1641$742e...@news.sonic.net, "Ray
Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote:
> Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:25:35 +0000, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message
>>> <13aa33d1-b716-4123...@d36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>>> go...@my-deja.com writes
>>>> On Jan 8, 4:50 pm, smam...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> Palestinians Under Attack
>>>>>
>>>>> ÊÚÑÖ ÇáÔÚÈ Çá†áÓØíäí †í ÛÒå áÙáã ÑåíÈ Úáì ÇíÏí ÇáfiæÇÊ ÇáÇÓÑÇÆíáíå
>>>>>
>>>>> Palestinians are exposed for horrible unfairness at the hands of
>>>>> Israeli forces.
>>>>
>>>> LOL!!
>>>>
>>>> So how are those thousands of rocket attacks aimed at Israeli
>>>> civilians working out?
>>>
>>> Nothing like as effective and the tens of thousands of strikes on
>>> Palestinian civilians by the Israelis
>>
>> As much as you seem to want to believe otherwise, Israel does not
>> deliberately target civilians. Period.
>
> Just like dropping a nuclear bomb on Hiroshima didn't deliberately
> target civilians.
Only a brain-dead waste of air like yourself, Fish-Rot, could be dumb enough
to make an analogy like that, comparing a mortar to an atomic bomb.
What an absolute dumbass...
HEMI - Powered
jour ...
>>Hamas is not a terrorist organisation.
>
> With just that one statement you've laid down your cards.
>
> Are you saying, then, that Hamas is not responsible for the
> constant rocket attacks into civilian areas of Israel?
>
Stephen, I'm not Jewish but then again I am hardly anti-Zionist. It
has LONG struck me as both unfair and extremely anti-Semetic that
the entire world is so against Jews and their right to a homeland.
Yes, Hamas IS a terrorist organization just like a significant
portion of the PLO was. It is also a militant group within a more
moderate government in Palestine and that controlling the Arab side
of Gaza. Since this is all true, what do you think the real problem
is here?
I don't like war, ANY war. There are SOME that are both necessary
and justified, such as WWII, and MANY which are neither, such as
Korea, Viet Nam, most likely Iraq, and MANY more minor incursions.
But, wrt Israel and the Palestians - not to mention many other Arab
countries in the Middle East - there has been a continual struggle
since UN Partitioning the year I was born in 1947. Talking about it
doesn't help, actually minor military action doesn't help much
either.
I give the Israelis a LOT of credit for taking the view that they
simply won't take agression or any other form of shit from ANYBODY
and will take decisive action to defend themselves from same. What
I do NOT understand is WHY the UN - presumably representing ALL
nations - continues to advocate peace keepers, cease fires, and
peace talks when what it TAKES is for the UN to do something about
the anti-Zionists.
Can't do that? I don't believe it for a minute. Don't want to do
that? I completely believe that. So, considering that the US and
it's major allies of convenience can't or won't take direct action
to help the Israelis despite MANY statements of support, I also do
NOT understand why WE just don't STFU and get out of the way.
--
HP, aka Jerry
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained
by stupidity!" - Hanlon's Razor
HEMI - Powered
>>>Hamas is not a terrorist organisation.
>>
>>With just that one statement you've laid down your cards.
>
> It is a properly elected authority in Gaza. Their election is
> more solid than the last one GWB engineered.
What difference does it make if Hamas is or is not a properly
elected authority? First, YOUR country has NO business criticizing
MY country in this. Fix it yourselves if you think you can.
What IS important is that elected or not, Hamas most clearly is a
terrorist/militant group that is bent on Israel's destruction. I
have great fear about why my new president-elect Hussein Obama will
really do. A number of his pals now in positions of authority such
as his Chief of Staff designate Rahm Emanual are PLO members. So,
does Obama help Israel or does he follow the advice of his
terrorist pals? Methinketh he will undo all the safeguards
President Bush put into place to keep American AND Israel safe. I
think that Obama will kiss the ass of every petty dicatator,
terrorist, militant group on the planet in some vain hope that his
own brand of kindler, gentler approach wiil work. Well, it won't,
it will make things WORSE.
The ONLY think that rogue nations or groups understand is violence.
Kill the bastards in the most expedicious manner possible,
preferably as violently and viciously as possible. It sends the
most powerful message possible that WE and our friends the Israelis
won't take shit from anybody.
And, YOUR country needs to get off it's ass and take it's place as
a key member of the international community and take decisive
action to protect itself and it's friends, instead of sitting on
the sidelines.
>>Are you saying, then, that Hamas is not responsible for the
>>constant rocket attacks into civilian areas of Israel?
>
> Their small response killing 13 was in response to the Israelis
> killing 900 civilians including 400 women and children
Get some facts, Chris. In just the last year alone, Hamas has
lobbed OVER 3,000 missiles at Israel, killing hundreds of civilians
for NO good reason except that they hate Jews.
> Whilst there is no independent evidence of Hamas using civilian
> shields I note that several independent international (and
> non-islamic/arab) agencies all have documented evidence of the
> IDF using civilian human shields, shelling medical and UN posts
> and deliberately killing civilians.
>
Hamas needs to understand that if they attack Israel they WILL be
attacked in retaliation 10-fold. Again, instead of pontificating,
your country should HELP. And, YOU should STOP critizing my country
and my president. You know nothing about us and nothing about the
issues at hand.
Chris H
<no...@none.giganews> writes
>Chris H added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...
>
>>>>Hamas is not a terrorist organisation.
>>>
>>>With just that one statement you've laid down your cards.
>>
>> It is a properly elected authority in Gaza. Their election is
>> more solid than the last one GWB engineered.
>
>What difference does it make if Hamas is or is not a properly
>elected authority?
Israel is attacking a legally elected government in it's own territory,.
Sounds like an act of war... no wonder they are fighting back
> First, YOUR country has NO business criticizing
>MY country in this.
The second your country steps outside it's own territory it is fair game
>Fix it yourselves if you think you can.
OK. Then but out whilst we do.
>What IS important is that elected or not, Hamas most clearly is a
>terrorist/militant group
No it is MOST CLEARLY the elected representative of the people fighting
an aggressor trying to kill it's citizens,
>that is bent on Israel's destruction.
Hardly with the few rockets it is using to stave off the Israeli
onslaught and massacre of civilians and children.
> I
>have great fear about why my new president-elect Hussein Obama will
>really do. A number of his pals now in positions of authority such
>as his Chief of Staff designate Rahm Emanual are PLO members.
Can you substantiate that?
> So,
>does Obama help Israel or does he follow the advice of his
>terrorist pals?
You mean the rest of the world that does not like regimes like Pol-Pot,
Saddam and Israel ? If you look at the full UN security council they
ALL voted against Israel bar the US
> Methinketh he will undo all the safeguards
>President Bush put into place to keep American AND Israel safe.
The two are not connected. IT is time to stop Israel murdering
civilians.
> I
>think that Obama will kiss the ass of every petty dicatator,
>terrorist, militant group on the planet in some vain hope that his
>own brand of kindler, gentler approach wiil work. Well, it won't,
>it will make things WORSE.
There is no hope for you.
>The ONLY think that rogue nations or groups understand is violence.
Quite so. The prime rogue state on the planet is the USA.. Most of the
world says this it is just that most Americans can't see outside their
own state let alone outside the country.
>Kill the bastards in the most expedicious manner possible,
>preferably as violently and viciously as possible.
Why? You seem to be a psychopath
> It sends the
>most powerful message possible that WE and our friends the Israelis
>won't take shit from anybody.
You are about to and have little choice in the matter The worlds super
powers will be telling you what to do.
WAKE UP
the US is no longer a super power.
It is NOT the worlds policeman
It does not have any moral high ground
>And, YOUR country needs to get off it's ass and take it's place as
>a key member of the international community and take decisive
>action to protect itself and it's friends, instead of sitting on
>the sidelines.
It has. It has pulled the US nuts out of the fire recently but we just
don't shout about it.
>
>>>Are you saying, then, that Hamas is not responsible for the
>>>constant rocket attacks into civilian areas of Israel?
>>
>> Their small response killing 13 was in response to the Israelis
>> killing 900 civilians including 400 women and children
>
>Get some facts, Chris. In just the last year alone, Hamas has
>lobbed OVER 3,000 missiles at Israel, killing hundreds of civilians
Not "hundreds" but about 10% of the number of Palestinian civilians
killed but the IDF
>for NO good reason except that they hate Jews.
They don't hate Jews... they are defending themselves against the IDF
who has pushed them into a ghetto and is putting 100 times as much
munitions into Gaza as they are able to retaliate with
>> Whilst there is no independent evidence of Hamas using civilian
>> shields I note that several independent international (and
>> non-islamic/arab) agencies all have documented evidence of the
>> IDF using civilian human shields, shelling medical and UN posts
>> and deliberately killing civilians.
>>
>Hamas needs to understand that if they attack Israel they WILL be
>attacked in retaliation 10-fold.
That's exactly what happened when Hamas defend themselves against the
Israeli onslaught.... You have to remember Hamas was created recently
as something to combat the slaughter of Palestinian civilians
> Again, instead of pontificating,
>your country should HELP.
I have advocated that. Full and immediate sanctions against Israel .
Enforce a no fly zone over Israel
>And, YOU should STOP critizing my country
>and my president.
The second he deploys troops outside the Us it IS my concern as it is
with any rouge state.
> You know nothing about us
Been to the US and worked there.
>and nothing about the
>issues at hand.
Really come over to uk.current-event.terrorisum where I have had a 90%
success rate on this very subject usually being able to accurately
predict trends up to 3 years in advance.
I do have military experience (and in the ME) speak Fasi and still have
many connections
If you look at our company events list
http://www.phaedsys.com/news/index.html
you will see that we are involved in the military sector and will be at
http://www.counterterrorexpo.com/
next month...
Your experience is?
Chris H
<no...@none.giganews> writes
>Stephen Bishop added these comments in the current discussion du
>jour ...
>
>>>Hamas is not a terrorist organisation.
>>
>> With just that one statement you've laid down your cards.
>>
>> Are you saying, then, that Hamas is not responsible for the
>> constant rocket attacks into civilian areas of Israel?
>>
>Stephen, I'm not Jewish but then again I am hardly anti-Zionist. It
>has LONG struck me as both unfair and extremely anti-Semetic that
>the entire world is so against Jews and their right to a homeland.
Why should a religious group take land from others?
Should the Catholics have a homeland?
Should the Moslems have a homeland?
>Yes, Hamas IS a terrorist organization just like a significant
>portion of the PLO was.
Not at all Hamas is a legally elected and legitimate authority in Gaza.
It is defending it's people from the onslaught and slaughter of
civilians by Israel
>I don't like war, ANY war. There are SOME that are both necessary
>and justified, such as WWII,
Yes though it could have been avoided.
>and MANY which are neither, such as
>Korea, Viet Nam, most likely Iraq, and MANY more minor incursions.
I agree.
>But, wrt Israel and the Palestians - not to mention many other Arab
>countries in the Middle East - there has been a continual struggle
>since UN Partitioning the year I was born in 1947. Talking about it
>doesn't help, actually minor military action doesn't help much
>either.
The partitioning was a mistake. Israel should never have been formed.
Giving in to terrorists was a mistake and they should have been rooted
out not given land,
>What
>I do NOT understand is WHY the UN - presumably representing ALL
>nations - continues to advocate peace keepers, cease fires, and
>peace talks when what it TAKES is for the UN to do something about
>the anti-Zionists.
The anti-zionists are not the problem. The problem is the Israeli
aggression from day one.
>Can't do that? I don't believe it for a minute. Don't want to do
>that? I completely believe that. So, considering that the US and
>it's major allies of convenience can't or won't take direct action
>to help the Israelis despite MANY statements of support, I also do
>NOT understand why WE just don't STFU and get out of the way.
I agree and the US will do in 2009/10 if Israel continues it's
current course it will be sooner rather than latter
Stephen Bishop
wrote:
>In message <9rgnm41aaqeu63b33...@4ax.com>, Stephen Bishop
><nospam...@now.com> writes
>>>>>s.
>>>>
>>>>Humans don't routinely send rockets and human bombs into populated
>>>>civilian areas.
>>>
>>>The Israelis do at about 10 times the rate Hamas do. The difference
>>>being the Israeli ones are precision guided and are directed at
>>>civilians.
>>
>>Wrong. They are directed at Hamas leaders and forces who surround
>>themselves with civilians in their sick attempt to gain sympathy and
>>accuse the Israelis of targeting civilians.
>
>
>Now that is interesting because ALL the independent reports from several
>organisations have documented cases of the Israeli IDF using human
>shields but there is no independent evidence of Hamas doing it...
>
>Actually the IDF has murdered some 400 women and children in the last 3
>weeks (of the 900 Palestinians killed) in response to the Hamas freedom
>fighters killing a huge number of 13 Israelis.
Unfortunately for you, your use of the code words "freedom fighters"
disqualifies everything else you say.
Civilized people don't fight for "freedom" by lobbing rockets randomly
into civilian areas. Your arguments are bankrupt, sorry.
Stephen Bishop
wrote:
>In message <c2inm49h35cfh3shb...@4ax.com>, Stephen Bishop
><nospam...@now.com> writes
>>On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:52:54 +0000, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>against terrorist
>>>>entities like Palestians whether it is the old PLO or the modern
>>>>Hamas.
>>>
>>>Hamas is not a terrorist organisation.
>>>
>>
>>With just that one statement you've laid down your cards.
>
>It is a properly elected authority in Gaza. Their election is more
>solid than the last one GWB engineered.
Oh, the GWB stolen election card? It would appear that not only are
you a liberal, but a flaming one. Sorry, your opinion is just too
skewed to be of any value. Come back when you have some real facts
that aren't drenched in left wing emotion.
>
>>Are you saying, then, that Hamas is not responsible for the constant
>>rocket attacks into civilian areas of Israel?
>
>Their small response killing 13 was in response to the Israelis killing
>900 civilians including 400 women and children
>
>Whilst there is no independent evidence of Hamas using civilian shields
>I note that several independent international (and non-islamic/arab)
>agencies all have documented evidence of the IDF using civilian human
>shields, shelling medical and UN posts and deliberately killing
>civilians.
Answer one question yes or no, please: Does Israel have the right to
exist?
Stephen Bishop
<no...@none.giganews> wrote:
>
>And, YOUR country needs to get off it's ass and take it's place as
>a key member of the international community and take decisive
>action to protect itself and it's friends, instead of sitting on
>the sidelines.
I'll add something from a Brit expatriot friend of mine who is
disgusted at how coddling to Muslim extremism his home country has
become. He said, "Great Britain used to rule the waves; now they wave
the rules." So sad, but true.
Stephen Bishop
wrote:
>In message <Xns9B9268DD56C...@216.196.97.131>, HEMI - Powered
><no...@none.giganews> writes
>>Chris H added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...
>>
>>>>>Hamas is not a terrorist organisation.
>>>>
>>>>With just that one statement you've laid down your cards.
>>>
>>> It is a properly elected authority in Gaza. Their election is
>>> more solid than the last one GWB engineered.
>>
>>What difference does it make if Hamas is or is not a properly
>>elected authority?
>
>Israel is attacking a legally elected government in it's own territory,.
>Sounds like an act of war... no wonder they are fighting back
Sorry, that doesn't hold water. Hamas fired first. Israel showed
remarkable retraint until "enough is enough."
Read the Koran sometime to see what the Muslims think about the Jews.
Probably not with the same bias as yours.
tony cooper
That goes *so* far back. The actual words are "Britannia used to rule
the waves; now they waive the rules".
"If I Were Britannia I'd Waive the Rules" was a song tile on a 1976
album by Budgie. A take-off, of course on "Rule, Britannia" written
in 1740 by Thomas Arne based on a poem by John Thomson.
When Britain first at Heav'n's command
Arose from out the azure main;
This was the charter of the land,
And guardian angels sang this strain;
Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Stephen Bishop
I think we are on the same page. And I'm speaking as a veteran, one
who was fortunate enough to not actually being in a shooting war.
Nobody wants war, but the Israelis keep getting a bad deal just for
doing what they have to do to survive as a nation. I'm not Jewish,
either, but I greatly respect them for what they are constantly going
through over there and for the very difficult decisions they often
have to make.
Stephen Bishop
wrote:
>In message <Xns9B92678ED5E...@216.196.97.131>, HEMI - Powered
><no...@none.giganews> writes
>>Stephen Bishop added these comments in the current discussion du
>>jour ...
>>
>>>>Hamas is not a terrorist organisation.
>>>
>>> With just that one statement you've laid down your cards.
>>>
>>> Are you saying, then, that Hamas is not responsible for the
>>> constant rocket attacks into civilian areas of Israel?
>>>
>>Stephen, I'm not Jewish but then again I am hardly anti-Zionist. It
>>has LONG struck me as both unfair and extremely anti-Semetic that
>>the entire world is so against Jews and their right to a homeland.
>
>Why should a religious group take land from others?
>Should the Catholics have a homeland?
>Should the Moslems have a homeland?
1. They took land from nobody. It was given to them by the UN and
they have been in defensive wars ever since.
2. It isn't a religious issue as far as Israel is concerned. It's
ethnic. Israel is a secular democracy.
>>Yes, Hamas IS a terrorist organization just like a significant
>>portion of the PLO was.
>
>Not at all Hamas is a legally elected and legitimate authority in Gaza.
>It is defending it's people from the onslaught and slaughter of
>civilians by Israel
Elected terrorists are still terrorists. You keep harping about
"slaughter of civilians" while ignoring the reality of what the
Palestinians have been trying to do to Israel for decades. Today it's
Hamas; yesterday it was the PLO. Their goal is to rid Palestine of
the Jews.
The only Jews they want living in that land are ones who live in
subjection to Islamic law as second class citizens.
I was in the military stationed in Greece when the PLO murdered dozens
of innocent civilans in the Athens airport in the 1970's. You can't
tell me that the Palestinians want a peaceful coexistence with Israel.
I was there during the Yom Kippur war. Trust me, I was in a position
to know who were the aggressors. You say the IDF is brutal. They
have to be, they are surrounded by brutal enemies.
Or do you perhaps have access to some documents from Hamas which state
that they disavow the actions of the PLO and they seek a true peace
with their Jewish neighbors? Do they condemn their own clerics when
they rant about the Jews drinking the blood of children and preaching
from parts of the Koran that refer to the Jews as pigs?
>
>>I don't like war, ANY war. There are SOME that are both necessary
>>and justified, such as WWII,
>Yes though it could have been avoided.
>
>>and MANY which are neither, such as
>>Korea, Viet Nam, most likely Iraq, and MANY more minor incursions.
>
>I agree.
>
>>But, wrt Israel and the Palestians - not to mention many other Arab
>>countries in the Middle East - there has been a continual struggle
>>since UN Partitioning the year I was born in 1947. Talking about it
>>doesn't help, actually minor military action doesn't help much
>>either.
>
>The partitioning was a mistake. Israel should never have been formed.
>Giving in to terrorists was a mistake and they should have been rooted
>out not given land,
And that's your prejudice talking.
>>What
>>I do NOT understand is WHY the UN - presumably representing ALL
>>nations - continues to advocate peace keepers, cease fires, and
>>peace talks when what it TAKES is for the UN to do something about
>>the anti-Zionists.
>
>The anti-zionists are not the problem. The problem is the Israeli
>aggression from day one.
Sorry, from day one it was the Arabs who were the aggressors trying to
remove what they saw as the stain of a Jewish state in what they
considered to be holy Muslim land.
>>Can't do that? I don't believe it for a minute. Don't want to do
>>that? I completely believe that. So, considering that the US and
>>it's major allies of convenience can't or won't take direct action
>>to help the Israelis despite MANY statements of support, I also do
>>NOT understand why WE just don't STFU and get out of the way.
>
>I agree and the US will do in 2009/10 if Israel continues it's
>current course it will be sooner rather than latter
Don't think for a minute that the US won't get involved directly if it
comes to the point that the survival of Israel is at stake.
Stephen Bishop
wrote:
Chris, nobody is going to believe you as long as you continue to skew
your facts with obvious propaganda codewords like "murdering
civilians," "genocide," "war crimes," "Israeli aggression," and the
ridiculous statement that firing rockets at civilians is an act of
self-defense. Pure propaganda and pure rubbish. I'm surprised you
haven't referred to Israel as the "Zionist Entity" since you have said
that they have no right to live there.
The fact is that neither side is innocent. If Israel has been accused
of overreacting, it is because they have been taking these kinds of
attacks and threats to their survival for decades. You'd do the same
thing if all of your neighbors on your street said you have no right
to live and took potshots at you every time you walked out your door.
Ray Fischer
You're the one justiying mass killing of innocent people, asshole.
Not me.
>Let me know when the Israelis set up death camps and actually start
>exterminating people.
A few years ago.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
>On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:23:59 +0000, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <9rgnm41aaqeu63b33...@4ax.com>, Stephen Bishop
>><nospam...@now.com> writes
>>>>>>s.
>>>>>
>>>>>Humans don't routinely send rockets and human bombs into populated
>>>>>civilian areas.
>>>>
>>>>The Israelis do at about 10 times the rate Hamas do. The difference
>>>>being the Israeli ones are precision guided and are directed at
>>>>civilians.
>>>
>>>Wrong. They are directed at Hamas leaders and forces who surround
>>>themselves with civilians in their sick attempt to gain sympathy and
>>>accuse the Israelis of targeting civilians.
>>
>>
>>Now that is interesting because ALL the independent reports from several
>>organisations have documented cases of the Israeli IDF using human
>>shields but there is no independent evidence of Hamas doing it...
>>
>>Actually the IDF has murdered some 400 women and children in the last 3
>>weeks (of the 900 Palestinians killed) in response to the Hamas freedom
>>fighters killing a huge number of 13 Israelis.
>
>Unfortunately for you, your use of the code words "freedom fighters"
>disqualifies everything else you say.
Don't confuse you with the facts, in other words.
>Civilized people don't fight for "freedom" by lobbing rockets randomly
>into civilian areas.
That's why the Israelis are not civilized.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
Run away, bigot. All you can do to justify murder is lie and blame
the victims.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
>
>>>>Hamas is not a terrorist organisation.
>>>
>>>With just that one statement you've laid down your cards.
>>
>> It is a properly elected authority in Gaza. Their election is
>> more solid than the last one GWB engineered.
>
>What difference does it make if Hamas is or is not a properly
>elected authority? First, YOUR country has NO business criticizing
>MY country in this. Fix it yourselves if you think you can.
MY taxes pay Israel to murder innocent people.
>What IS important is that elected or not, Hamas most clearly is a
>terrorist/militant group that is bent on Israel's destruction.
Just as Likud is a terrorist/militant group that is bent on the
annexation of the West Bank after all of the natives have been driven
out.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
> Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>> HEMI - Powered
>>>>>>Hamas is not a terrorist organisation.
>>>>>
>>>>>With just that one statement you've laid down your cards.
>>>>
>>>> It is a properly elected authority in Gaza. Their election is
>>>> more solid than the last one GWB engineered.
>>>
>>>What difference does it make if Hamas is or is not a properly
>>>elected authority?
>>
>>Israel is attacking a legally elected government in it's own territory,.
>>Sounds like an act of war... no wonder they are fighting back
>
>Sorry, that doesn't hold waterf Hamas fired first.
That's an outright lie. In addition to killing people in Gaza during
the supposed cease fire, Israel has also waged war against the people
of Gaza by starving them and preventing people from travelling freely.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
>jour ...
>
>>>Hamas is not a terrorist organisation.
>>
>> With just that one statement you've laid down your cards.
>>
>> Are you saying, then, that Hamas is not responsible for the
>> constant rocket attacks into civilian areas of Israel?
>>
>Stephen, I'm not Jewish but then again I am hardly anti-Zionist. It
>has LONG struck me as both unfair and extremely anti-Semetic that
>the entire world is so against Jews and their right to a homeland.
Looks like the world is against Arabs and THEIR rights. You certainly
are.
>Yes, Hamas IS a terrorist organization just like a significant
>portion of the PLO was.
Just like a significant number of Israelis are.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
> rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message
>>>>go...@my-deja.com writes
>>>>>On Jan 8, 4:50 pm, smam...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> Palestinians Under Attack
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Palestinians are exposed for horrible unfairness at the hands of
>>>>>> Israeli forces.
>>>>>
>>>>>LOL!!
>>>>>
>>>>>So how are those thousands of rocket attacks aimed at Israeli
>>>>>civilians working out?
>>>>
>>>>Palestinian civilians by the Israelis
>>>
>>>As much as you seem to want to believe otherwise, Israel does not
>>>deliberately target civilians. Period.
>>
>>target civilians.
>
They've limited themselves to 1000 pound bombs and rockets and tank
shells fired where civilians are located.
>It sounds like you are one of those anti-semitic bigots who believes
Since I never criticized Jews it's obvious that you're just some
bigoted ASSHOLE hiding behind his religion in order to justify
murdering civilians.
You're disgusting.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Chris H
<nospam...@now.com> writes
>On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:31:43 +0000, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <Xns9B9268DD56C...@216.196.97.131>, HEMI - Powered
>><no...@none.giganews> writes
>>>Chris H added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...
>>>
>>>>>>Hamas is not a terrorist organisation.
>>>>>
>>>>>With just that one statement you've laid down your cards.
>>>>
>>>> It is a properly elected authority in Gaza. Their election is
>>>> more solid than the last one GWB engineered.
>>>
>>>What difference does it make if Hamas is or is not a properly
>>>elected authority?
>>
>>Israel is attacking a legally elected government in it's own territory,.
>>Sounds like an act of war... no wonder they are fighting back
>
>Sorry, that doesn't hold water. Hamas fired first. Israel showed
>remarkable retraint until "enough is enough."
When did Hamas come into being? Hamas was created in 1987 by Sheikh
Ahmed Yassin because they were so pissed off with Isreal murdering
civilians.
Hamas was created to defend the Palestinians from the IDF continually
killing women and children as it normally does. Some 400 women and
children (of the 90 civilians) in the last 15 days.
Hamas have killed 13 Israelis in defence.
Chris H
<nospam...@now.com> writes
>>success rate on this very subject usually being able to accurately
>>predict trends up to 3 years in advance.
>>
>>I do have military experience (and in the ME) speak Fasi and still have
>>many connections
>>
>>If you look at our company events list
>>http://www.phaedsys.com/news/index.html
>>
>>you will see that we are involved in the military sector and will be at
>>http://www.counterterrorexpo.com/
>>
>>next month...
>>
>>Your experience is?
>
>Probably not with the same bias as yours.
In other words you don't have any relevant experience.
Chris H
<nospam...@now.com> writes
>
>>>Yes, Hamas IS a terrorist organization just like a significant
>>>portion of the PLO was.
>>
>>Not at all Hamas is a legally elected and legitimate authority in Gaza.
>>It is defending it's people from the onslaught and slaughter of
>>civilians by Israel
>
>Elected terrorists are still terrorists.
Quite so... the first Israeli government was made up of terrorists some
of whom killed civilians and bombed busses.
> You keep harping about
>"slaughter of civilians" while ignoring the reality of what the
>Palestinians have been trying to do to Israel for decades. Today it's
>Hamas; yesterday it was the PLO. Their goal is to rid Palestine of
>the Jews.
The Israelis slaughter civilians at a rate of 10-1 over the numbers
killed by Hamas
>The only Jews they want living in that land are ones who live in
>subjection to Islamic law as second class citizens.
Just as Israel does to Arabs living in Israel
>I was in the military stationed in Greece
Who's military?
>>The anti-zionists are not the problem. The problem is the Israeli
>>aggression from day one.
>
>Sorry, from day one it was the Arabs who were the aggressors
You mean defenders it was their land that was taken.
> trying to
>remove what they saw as the stain of a Jewish state in what they
>considered to be holy Muslim land.
Yes.. The big mistake was putting Israel there in the first place in
1947
>>>Can't do that? I don't believe it for a minute. Don't want to do
>>>that? I completely believe that. So, considering that the US and
>>>it's major allies of convenience can't or won't take direct action
>>>to help the Israelis despite MANY statements of support, I also do
>>>NOT understand why WE just don't STFU and get out of the way.
>>
>>I agree and the US will do in 2009/10 if Israel continues it's
>>current course it will be sooner rather than latter
>
>Don't think for a minute that the US won't get involved directly if it
>comes to the point that the survival of Israel is at stake.
It can't get involved. It won't be permitted by the owners of the USA
and the other superpowers. WAKE UP the us is no longer a super power
and is owned by others. GWB lost WW3 without even realising it was
being fought
He was till fighting a 20th century war with a 20th century military
Chris H
<nospam...@now.com> writes
>
>>
>>Can't do that? I don't believe it for a minute. Don't want to do
>>that? I completely believe that. So, considering that the US and
>>it's major allies of convenience can't or won't take direct action
>>to help the Israelis despite MANY statements of support, I also do
>>NOT understand why WE just don't STFU and get out of the way.
>
>I think we are on the same page. And I'm speaking as a veteran, one
>who was fortunate enough to not actually being in a shooting war.
A toy soldier.
>Nobody wants war, but the Israelis keep getting a bad deal just for
>doing what they have to do to survive as a nation.
They get a bad deal fro war crimes and continually killing civilians and
behaving like the Waffen SS
Chris H
<nospam...@now.com> writes
>Chris, nobody is going to believe you as long as you continue to skew
>your facts with obvious propaganda codewords like "murdering
>civilians,"
FACT 900 civilians killed inthe last 15 days 400 of the women and
children
> "genocide," "war crimes," "Israeli aggression,"
Not my call the UN, Red Cross and Amnesty said it
> and the
>ridiculous statement that firing rockets at civilians is an act of
>self-defense.
They are firing back the only weapons they have and have killed 13 in
defiance of 900 slaughtered civilians in the last two weeks.
The Israelis use guided weapons and have deliberately (according to the
UN, Red Cross and Amnesty etc etc ) taken out schools, mosques and
medical centres
Even the Israli government is saying they are worried they are going to
have to face war crimes trials
> Pure propaganda and pure rubbish.
FACTS from multiple sources
> I'm surprised you
>haven't referred to Israel as the "Zionist Entity" since you have said
>that they have no right to live there.
Zionist? I was talking about Israel not a religious sect.
>The fact is that neither side is innocent.
True at the moment but the Palestinians are fighting for survival after
a load of foreigners invaded their land The big mistake was made in
1947
>If Israel has been accused
>of overreacting, it is because they have been taking these kinds of
>attacks and threats to their survival for decades. You'd do the same
>thing if all of your neighbors on your street said you have no right
>to live and took potshots at you every time you walked out your door.
All your crap about self defence ignores the one thing. The Israeli
terrorist started this in 1947
Stephen Bishop
All I'm justifying is Israel's right to defend itself. You're still
a self-righteous bigot who can't see beyond his own bigotry.
>
>>Let me know when the Israelis set up death camps and actually start
>>exterminating people.
>
>A few years ago.
It never happened. Seig Heil, Ray.
Stephen Bishop
>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:23:59 +0000, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In message <9rgnm41aaqeu63b33...@4ax.com>, Stephen Bishop
>>><nospam...@now.com> writes
>>>>>>>s.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Humans don't routinely send rockets and human bombs into populated
>>>>>>civilian areas.
>>>>>
>>>>>The Israelis do at about 10 times the rate Hamas do. The difference
>>>>>being the Israeli ones are precision guided and are directed at
>>>>>civilians.
>>>>
>>>>Wrong. They are directed at Hamas leaders and forces who surround
>>>>themselves with civilians in their sick attempt to gain sympathy and
>>>>accuse the Israelis of targeting civilians.
>>>
>>>
>>>Now that is interesting because ALL the independent reports from several
>>>organisations have documented cases of the Israeli IDF using human
>>>shields but there is no independent evidence of Hamas doing it...
>>>
>>>Actually the IDF has murdered some 400 women and children in the last 3
>>>weeks (of the 900 Palestinians killed) in response to the Hamas freedom
>>>fighters killing a huge number of 13 Israelis.
>>
>>Unfortunately for you, your use of the code words "freedom fighters"
>>disqualifies everything else you say.
>
>Don't confuse you with the facts, in other words.
You have yet to provide any facts. Emotionally-charged propaganda
buzzwords are not facts.
>
>>Civilized people don't fight for "freedom" by lobbing rockets randomly
>>into civilian areas.
>
>That's why the Israelis are not civilized.
They have never done that. In your self-righteous bigotry you simply
ignore what the Palestinians have been doing for years.
Stephen Bishop
Typical Ray self-righteous bigotry. Make false accusations, do some
name-calling then tell someone to run away.
Where are your facts?
Stephen Bishop
Try as you will, your self-righteous bigotry can't deny the fact that
Hamas has been firing rockets into civilian areas for the purpose of
killing and terrorizing the population, not to "defend themselves"
from what they see as acts of war against them.
Stephen Bishop
wrote:
That's your side of the story, and it is highly biased.
Stephen Bishop
wrote:
>In message <lu7qm4tu3u3o9ombp...@4ax.com>, Stephen Bishop
><nospam...@now.com> writes
>>On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:31:43 +0000, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Really come over to uk.current-event.terrorisum where I have had a 90%
>>>success rate on this very subject usually being able to accurately
>>>predict trends up to 3 years in advance.
>>>
>>>I do have military experience (and in the ME) speak Fasi and still have
>>>many connections
>>>
>>>If you look at our company events list
>>>http://www.phaedsys.com/news/index.html
>>>
>>>you will see that we are involved in the military sector and will be at
>>>http://www.counterterrorexpo.com/
>>>
>>>next month...
>>>
>>>Your experience is?
>>
>>Probably not with the same bias as yours.
>
>In other words you don't have any relevant experience.
If you consider yourself an expert in counterterrorism, then why are
you doing your best to justify terrorism and demonizing those who are
defending themselves from terrorists?
Stephen Bishop
>HEMI - Powered <no...@none.giganews> wrote:
>>Chris H added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...
>>
>>>>>Hamas is not a terrorist organisation.
>>>>
>>>>With just that one statement you've laid down your cards.
>>>
>>> It is a properly elected authority in Gaza. Their election is
>>> more solid than the last one GWB engineered.
>>
>>What difference does it make if Hamas is or is not a properly
>>elected authority? First, YOUR country has NO business criticizing
>>MY country in this. Fix it yourselves if you think you can.
>
>MY taxes pay Israel to murder innocent people.
If you actually feel that strongly about that bit of propaganda, then
simply stop paying your taxes. Let your battle with the IRS become a
national statement of solidarity for the oppressed.
>>What IS important is that elected or not, Hamas most clearly is a
>>terrorist/militant group that is bent on Israel's destruction.
>
>Just as Likud is a terrorist/militant group that is bent on the
>annexation of the West Bank after all of the natives have been driven
>out.
Whatever your opinion on the actions of other groups, you still can't
justify the actions of Hamas.
Stephen Bishop
wrote:
>In message <uoaqm4pms1ub2jife...@4ax.com>, Stephen Bishop
><nospam...@now.com> writes
>>
>>>>Yes, Hamas IS a terrorist organization just like a significant
>>>>portion of the PLO was.
>>>
>>>Not at all Hamas is a legally elected and legitimate authority in Gaza.
>>>It is defending it's people from the onslaught and slaughter of
>>>civilians by Israel
>>
>>Elected terrorists are still terrorists.
>
>Quite so... the first Israeli government was made up of terrorists some
>of whom killed civilians and bombed busses.
>
>> You keep harping about
>>"slaughter of civilians" while ignoring the reality of what the
>>Palestinians have been trying to do to Israel for decades. Today it's
>>Hamas; yesterday it was the PLO. Their goal is to rid Palestine of
>>the Jews.
>
>The Israelis slaughter civilians at a rate of 10-1 over the numbers
>killed by Hamas
>
>
>>The only Jews they want living in that land are ones who live in
>>subjection to Islamic law as second class citizens.
>
>Just as Israel does to Arabs living in Israel
So then, you agree that this is what they want.
But you have your facts wrong again. There are actually Arabs who
serve in the Israeli government.
>>I was in the military stationed in Greece
>Who's military?
>
>>>The anti-zionists are not the problem. The problem is the Israeli
>>>aggression from day one.
>>
>>Sorry, from day one it was the Arabs who were the aggressors
>
>You mean defenders it was their land that was taken.
What makes you think it was their land? Legally, at the time it was
land administered by the British Empire. Prior to that it was land
owned by the Ottoman Empire. Go back far enough and you'll see that
it was land owned by the Jews. Jerusalem is their historical
capitol, and it was stolen from them at one point.
There never was a nation of Palestine. Period.
The people of Gaza have always been given a raw deal, even by other
Arabs. When it was part of Egypt, the Egyptians didn't even grant
those people citizenship.
>> trying to
>>remove what they saw as the stain of a Jewish state in what they
>>considered to be holy Muslim land.
>
>Yes.. The big mistake was putting Israel there in the first place in
>1947
Which just underscores your prejudice and explains why you keep
repeating the Palestinian propaganda.
>
>>>>Can't do that? I don't believe it for a minute. Don't want to do
>>>>that? I completely believe that. So, considering that the US and
>>>>it's major allies of convenience can't or won't take direct action
>>>>to help the Israelis despite MANY statements of support, I also do
>>>>NOT understand why WE just don't STFU and get out of the way.
>>>
>>>I agree and the US will do in 2009/10 if Israel continues it's
>>>current course it will be sooner rather than latter
>>
>>Don't think for a minute that the US won't get involved directly if it
>>comes to the point that the survival of Israel is at stake.
>
>It can't get involved. It won't be permitted by the owners of the USA
>and the other superpowers. WAKE UP the us is no longer a super power
>and is owned by others. GWB lost WW3 without even realising it was
>being fought
>
>He was till fighting a 20th century war with a 20th century military
Conspiracy theory enthusiasts of the world, unite!
Stephen Bishop
wrote:
>In message <diaqm4d27mfqs5a53...@4ax.com>, Stephen Bishop
><nospam...@now.com> writes
>>
>>>
>>>Can't do that? I don't believe it for a minute. Don't want to do
>>>that? I completely believe that. So, considering that the US and
>>>it's major allies of convenience can't or won't take direct action
>>>to help the Israelis despite MANY statements of support, I also do
>>>NOT understand why WE just don't STFU and get out of the way.
>>
>>I think we are on the same page. And I'm speaking as a veteran, one
>>who was fortunate enough to not actually being in a shooting war.
>
>A toy soldier.
Mindless name-calling. You have no idea how I've served.
>
>>Nobody wants war, but the Israelis keep getting a bad deal just for
>>doing what they have to do to survive as a nation.
>
>They get a bad deal fro war crimes and continually killing civilians and
>behaving like the Waffen SS
More propaganda catch-phrases.
Chris H
It is factual.... which bit is incorrect?
FACT Israel was killing Palestinians long before Hamas was created to
stop it.
FACT Israel has "accidentally" and in "self defence" killed 500 male
civilians and 400 women and children civilians in the last 15 days
using Precision guided weapons.
In the same period 13 Israeli civilians have died by small unguided
missiles
The only bias and propaganda here is yours
You may note no one has defended your position but several people
including Americans have said you are bigoted and repeating propaganda
Is everyone wrong but you?
Chris H
>On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:17:20 +0000, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <lu7qm4tu3u3o9ombp...@4ax.com>, Stephen Bishop
>><nospam...@now.com> writes
>>>On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:31:43 +0000, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Really come over to uk.current-event.terrorisum where I have had a 90%
>>>>success rate on this very subject usually being able to accurately
>>>>predict trends up to 3 years in advance.
>>>>
>>>>I do have military experience (and in the ME) speak Fasi and still have
>>>>many connections
>>>>
>>>>If you look at our company events list
>>>>http://www.phaedsys.com/news/index.html
>>>>
>>>>you will see that we are involved in the military sector and will be at
>>>>http://www.counterterrorexpo.com/
>>>>
>>>>next month...
>>>>
>>>>Your experience is?
>>>
>>>Probably not with the same bias as yours.
>>
>>In other words you don't have any relevant experience.
>
>If you consider yourself an expert in counterterrorism, then why are
>you doing your best to justify terrorism and demonizing those who are
>defending themselves from terrorists?
Now that is a VERY good question.
As others here also agree with me the only logical answer is that my
arguments are correct and your assumptions about Israel and their
tactics are wrong.
Unless everyone but you is wrong and it is a conspiracy by the worlds
media (excluding Fox) and Amnesty, Red Cross, UN and thousands of other
independent witnesses.
So on balance either the whole world is wrong or you are... and as you
have said you have little experience in this field
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Chris H
<nospam...@now.com> writes
As defence against the slaughter of civilians including 400 women and
children by guided weapons not to mention documented evidence of the IDF
attacking mosques, schools and medical centres it is more than
justified.
It is just your bigotry and bias that seems to think self defence
against some one mass murdering civilians is wrong. Remember Israel
started this.
Chris H
And serve in the IDF. Which is why this is an Israeli problem not a
"Jewish" problem
>>>I was in the military stationed in Greece
>>Who's military?
Again: whose military
>>>>The anti-zionists are not the problem. The problem is the Israeli
>>>>aggression from day one.
>>>
>>>Sorry, from day one it was the Arabs who were the aggressors
>>
>>You mean defenders it was their land that was taken.
>
>What makes you think it was their land? Legally, at the time it was
>land administered by the British Empire.
Yes it was Palestine
> Prior to that it was land
>owned by the Ottoman Empire. Go back far enough and you'll see that
>it was land owned by the Jews. Jerusalem is their historical
>capitol, and it was stolen from them at one point.
So you are going to give America back to the Native Americans?
>There never was a nation of Palestine. Period.
As you point out the area was under British Rule. As I know (knew they
are now long gone) Member of the Palestinian Police I can tell you
there was a nation of Palestine
>The people of Gaza have always been given a raw deal, even by other
>Arabs.
And that excused genocide by Israel ?
>>Yes.. The big mistake was putting Israel there in the first place in
>>1947
>
>Which just underscores your prejudice and explains why you keep
>repeating the Palestinian propaganda.
Which propaganda? You keep coming out with Israeli propaganda that is
visibly at odds with reality and every other report coming from the
area.
My "propaganda" is factual reports from the UN, Red Cross, Amnesty
International and the media (except Fox)
>>>>>Can't do that? I don't believe it for a minute. Don't want to do
>>>>>that? I completely believe that. So, considering that the US and
>>>>>it's major allies of convenience can't or won't take direct action
>>>>>to help the Israelis despite MANY statements of support, I also do
>>>>>NOT understand why WE just don't STFU and get out of the way.
>>>>
>>>>I agree and the US will do in 2009/10 if Israel continues it's
>>>>current course it will be sooner rather than latter
>>>
>>>Don't think for a minute that the US won't get involved directly if it
>>>comes to the point that the survival of Israel is at stake.
>>
>>It can't get involved. It won't be permitted by the owners of the USA
>>and the other superpowers. WAKE UP the us is no longer a super power
>>and is owned by others. GWB lost WW3 without even realising it was
>>being fought
>>
>>He was till fighting a 20th century war with a 20th century military
>
>Conspiracy theory enthusiasts of the world, unite!
Which bit is a conspiracy?
Chris H
>On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:25:58 +0000, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <diaqm4d27mfqs5a53...@4ax.com>, Stephen Bishop
>><nospam...@now.com> writes
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Can't do that? I don't believe it for a minute. Don't want to do
>>>>that? I completely believe that. So, considering that the US and
>>>>it's major allies of convenience can't or won't take direct action
>>>>to help the Israelis despite MANY statements of support, I also do
>>>>NOT understand why WE just don't STFU and get out of the way.
>>>
>>>I think we are on the same page. And I'm speaking as a veteran, one
>>>who was fortunate enough to not actually being in a shooting war.
>>
>>A toy soldier.
>
>Mindless name-calling. You have no idea how I've served.
How did you serve? I asked and you evaded.
George Kerby
On 1/14/09 12:27 AM, in article 496d85d2$0$1627$742e...@news.sonic.net,
"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote:
> Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>> On 13 Jan 2009 08:58:49 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>
>>> Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:28:10 +0000, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <5l8mm45f8qrn9282s...@4ax.com>, Stephen Bishop
>>>>> <nospam...@now.com> writes
>>>>>> On 12 Jan 2009 03:13:36 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11 Jan 2009 20:31:44 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a simple formula for peace there. It starts with getting
>>>>>>>>>>>> over what the United Nations did in 1947 and simply acknowledge
>>>>>>>>>>>> Israel's right to exist, instead of being in a constant state of
>>>>>>>>>>>> war
>>>>>>>>>>>> with them.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And when will Israel accept the Palestinians human and civil rights
>>>>>>>>>>> and recognize their right to a state of their own?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just as soon as the Palestinians and other Arabs recognize Israel's
>>>>>>>>>> right to exist and quit violating every land-for-peace agreement that
>>>>>>>>>> Israel has offered them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In reality that right to exist is already by the Arabs states in the
>>>>>>>>> region and it is Israel violating "land for peace" agreements and
>>>>>>>>> international law by continue to expand into occupied territories.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What are you talking about? What you call "occupied territories" is
>>>>>>>> merely land that has been won in defensive wars.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's a lie. It is NOT part of Israel. It is under military
>>>>>>> occupation and Israel routinely violates people's human rights.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Humans don't routinely send rockets and human bombs into populated
>>>>>> civilian areas.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Israelis do at about 10 times the rate Hamas do. The difference
>>>>> being the Israeli ones are precision guided and are directed at
>>>>> civilians.
>>>>
>>>> Wrong. They are directed at Hamas leaders and forces who surround
>>>> themselves with civilians in their sick attempt to gain sympathy and
>>>> accuse the Israelis of targeting civilians.
>>>
>>> And so the disgusting bigot justifies war crimes.
>>>
>>> Just like the nazis excused the deaths of Jews by claiming that they
>>> died of disease and hunger because of the Allied invasion.
>
>> Let me know when the Israelis set up death camps and actually start
>> exterminating people.
>
> A few years ago.
WOW! What a fact-filled believable answer that was Fish_head!!!
Boy, I tell ya, that was an answer to end all doubt of your dead-on
accuracy.
What a MORON...
George Kerby
On 1/14/09 12:36 AM, in article 496d87f5$0$1627$742e...@news.sonic.net,
"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote:
> Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>> rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>> Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:25:35 +0000, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message
>>>>> <13aa33d1-b716-4123...@d36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>>>>> go...@my-deja.com writes
>>>>>> On Jan 8, 4:50 pm, smam...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> Palestinians Under Attack
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ÊÚÑÖ ÇáÔÚÈ Çá†áÓØíäí †í ÛÒå áÙáã ÑåíÈ Úáì ÇíÏí ÇáfiæÇÊ ÇáÇÓÑÇÆíáíå
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Palestinians are exposed for horrible unfairness at the hands of
>>>>>>> Israeli forces.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LOL!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So how are those thousands of rocket attacks aimed at Israeli
>>>>>> civilians working out?
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing like as effective and the tens of thousands of strikes on
>>>>> Palestinian civilians by the Israelis
>>>>
>>>> As much as you seem to want to believe otherwise, Israel does not
>>>> deliberately target civilians. Period.
>>>
>>> Just like dropping a nuclear bomb on Hiroshima didn't deliberately
>>> target civilians.
>>
>> Israel didn't do that.
>
>
> You're disgusting.
And you have the memory of a dead elephant, Fish-Mouth.
Stephen Bishop
wrote:
>In message <3sbqm4hkv3fqbcbas...@4ax.com>, Stephen Bishop
><nospam...@now.com> writes
>>Chris, nobody is going to believe you as long as you continue to skew
>>your facts with obvious propaganda codewords like "murdering
>>civilians,"
>
>FACT 900 civilians killed inthe last 15 days 400 of the women and
>children
>
>> "genocide," "war crimes," "Israeli aggression,"
>
>Not my call the UN, Red Cross and Amnesty said it
Ok, please provide the clear documentation where all three of those
organizations have determined that Israel is committing genocide.
>
>> and the
>>ridiculous statement that firing rockets at civilians is an act of
>>self-defense.
>
>They are firing back the only weapons they have and have killed 13 in
>defiance of 900 slaughtered civilians in the last two weeks.
Your bias is showing again. The Israelies have "slaughtered"
civilians while the Palestinians have merely "killed" them?
The relative numbers are only a reflection of the efficiency of the
weapons. If each rocket that Hamas fired killed even one Jew, the
numbers would be much more skewed toward the other side.
>
>The Israelis use guided weapons and have deliberately (according to the
>UN, Red Cross and Amnesty etc etc ) taken out schools, mosques and
>medical centres
How would those groups even begin to know where the IDF "deliberately"
targets those things vs. what is caught in the crossfire?
And for those which are targeted, how many of them are at or near the
sites where Hamas has launched rockets and/or stored weapons?
>
>Even the Israli government is saying they are worried they are going to
>have to face war crimes trials
Documentation, please? And in context, not just soundbites.
>
>> Pure propaganda and pure rubbish.
>FACTS from multiple sources
>
>> I'm surprised you
>>haven't referred to Israel as the "Zionist Entity" since you have said
>>that they have no right to live there.
>
>Zionist? I was talking about Israel not a religious sect.
>
>>The fact is that neither side is innocent.
>
>True at the moment but the Palestinians are fighting for survival after
>a load of foreigners invaded their land The big mistake was made in
>1947
Newsflash: That part of the world has been under the control of
foreigners for over 2,000 years. The Palestinians are not the
original inhabitants of Palestine. The Jews were there before the
Arabs, anyway. But foreigners invaded their land and forced them
out.
>
>>If Israel has been accused
>>of overreacting, it is because they have been taking these kinds of
>>attacks and threats to their survival for decades. You'd do the same
>>thing if all of your neighbors on your street said you have no right
>>to live and took potshots at you every time you walked out your door.
>
>
>All your crap about self defence ignores the one thing. The Israeli
>terrorist started this in 1947
That's just your anti-Jewish and anti-Israel bias talking.
Stephen Bishop
And why is that, Ray?
Are you going to pretend to tell everyone that Hamas does not hide
their military targets in civilian areas? If so, you'd better be
prepared to back that up.
If they were truly fighting a war of liberation, they would not be
doing those cowardly rocket attacks from civilian areas and then
shouting "war crimes" when the side they are shooting at retaliates.
>>It sounds like you are one of those anti-semitic bigots who believes
>
>Since I never criticized Jews it's obvious that you're just some
>bigoted ASSHOLE hiding behind his religion in order to justify
>murdering civilians.
>
>You're disgusting.
More self-righteous bigotry from someone who doesn't have a clue what
he is talking about. Sieg Heil, Ray, your swastika is showing.
Stephen Bishop
wrote:
The numbers of unfortunate victims on either side may be accurate, but
misleading. It isn't a numbers game. The casualties on the
Palestinian side would be lower if they didn't hide their weapons and
fighters among civilians.
You are also biased when you say they are killing Israelis in defense.
Killing civilians is never defense. Terrorism, yes. Retaliation,
maybe. But defense? Never. That's absurdly biased.
>FACT Israel was killing Palestinians long before Hamas was created to
>stop it.
That's when the terrorist group in charge was called the PLO and was
killing innocent Iraeli civilians as well as people in other countries
to protest the fact that they didn't like not having Jews living in
what they thought was their land.
>
>FACT Israel has "accidentally" and in "self defence" killed 500 male
>civilians and 400 women and children civilians in the last 15 days
>using Precision guided weapons.
Targeted at known and suspected combatant locations. If they don't
want their civilians to get killed, they shouldn't hide among them.
Put their rocket launchers and securitiy forces out in the open so
they can fight the Israelis away from civilians. Why don't they do
that? Simple, they get much more sympathy from the world by inviting
all those civilian casualties.
In the words of Ariel Sharon, "Sometimes you have to drain the swamp
to get to the alligators."
>
>In the same period 13 Israeli civilians have died by small unguided
>missiles
Firing unguided weapons at civilian populations only has the purpose
of killing innocent people. It is anything but defensive warfare.
>
>The only bias and propaganda here is yours
>
>You may note no one has defended your position but several people
>including Americans have said you are bigoted and repeating propaganda
>
>Is everyone wrong but you?
I'm sure you think that is a statistically valid sample. If you are
referring to Ray, he is a well-known usenet insult machine and
self-righteous champion of undefendable far-left causes. He has
little credibility anywhere he posts.
Stephen Bishop
wrote:
The relatively few here who have given profanity-laced support to your
point of view hardly constitutes the whole world.
It all comes down to whether or not Israel has the right to exist and
defend itself in any way it deems necessary. You say no. You claim
a cloud of witnesses but don't cite specific facts, just emotion-laced
opinions.
If you had your way, what would happen to the nation of Israel? Please
be specific, including the fate of the Jews living in that part of the
world.