Beware of Rocky Cameras, UK
Grimly Curmudgeon
a website www.rockycameras.com. This is not just a problem for UK
buyers, the scam artist will happily ship to the US and worldwide.
He buys in used cameras and lenses in bulk and performs no proper checks
on them before punting them out as "=OPTICALLY PERFECT=", etc. When
things go wrong, as they frequently do, a complainer will be assured of
a refund or replacement that never arrives.
His most audacious exploit recently was to take back a faulty item, fail
to refund the buyer, and then re-list the same item on ebay. Priceless.
For a flavour of this crook's dealings, look here...
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/RockyCameras
Or simply check his negs on ebay...
http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=rockycamera&Dirn=Received+by&ref=home
I urge everyone to boycott this scumbag.
John McWilliams
OK, I promise so to do.
Rol_Lei Nut
> Grimly Curmudgeon <grimly...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote
>> I urge everyone to boycott this scumbag.
>
> Interesting.... I wonder if the existence of these websites is why
> scammers keep changing their Ebay identity. I can't see how these
> sites could keep track otherwise. And you can change your Ebay name
> anytime.
>
> It's easy with scam sellers - they get bad feedback which you can see.
> Scam buyers don't - they can just keep going.
>
> Paypal will always protect the buyer.
Ha!
I got a defective camera, started a case, and Paypal just closed the
case because I'm away from home and couldn't meet their 8-day deadline
for sending the camera back to the seller, over 2.5 months after I
bought the item.
Also, I had already spent €59 to get an offical condition appraisal (as
they requested), with another tight deadline (the request came one day
before I left home).
Of course, anyone with a pending case should just stay home indefinitely
or else take the defective item with them around the World...
Never again Paypal!!!!!
Sorry for the rant, but I'm really pissed-off!
tony cooper
Why are you pissed at PayPal? It is the seller who sent you a
defective camera, and presumably the seller who refused to replace the
camera or provide you with a refund.
The seller caused the problem.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Christopher Loffredo
Paypal is supposed to offer buyer protection exactly for these problems.
I spent a lot of time and money to comply with their arbitrary demands
and deadlines, until the last one which I simply couldn't meet.
And, yes, I did explain the fact that I was abroad to them, to no avail.
TheRealSteve
It's even worse than that. Read the fine print of Paypal's buyer
protection. Even if you jump through the hoops and they find in your
favor, the only action they'll take is to deduct money from the
seller's paypal account balance to give to you. They don't cover any
buyer protection themselves.
That does absolutely nothing for a scammer who comes on, opens an
account, sells a bunch of goods, pisses people off and then closes up
shop. And since the paypal arbitration process takes weeks to go
through, it's highly likely they'll be long gone and you'll get
nothing at all.
Your best bet is to pay by credit card even if Paypal tries to
convince you that you're getting some sort of buyer protection if you
don't use a credit card. If enough people do that and don't fall for
their crap, then maybe they'll start to offer *real* buyer protection,
like your credit card does.
Steve
tony cooper
<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
You cannot expect them to offer protection without some limitation or
conditions. The protection was there, but you couldn't take advantage
of it.
Using a regular credit card also offers protection, but any credit
card company has limitations on their protection.
>I spent a lot of time and money to comply with their arbitrary demands
>and deadlines, until the last one which I simply couldn't meet.
Their demands, deadlines, and restrictions are clearly spelled out.
>And, yes, I did explain the fact that I was abroad to them, to no avail.
That's not their problem, and anyone can say anything.
The seller caused your problem, not PayPal. PayPal couldn't rectify
the problem because you were unable to comply with their conditions.
Grimly Curmudgeon
drugs began to take hold. I remember tony cooper
<tony_co...@earthlink.net> saying something like:
>The seller caused your problem, not PayPal. PayPal couldn't rectify
>the problem because you were unable to comply with their conditions.
I suppose you've never been burnt by PayPal? You'll change your tune
when somebody uses the loopholes and delays in the PP system to rip you
off.
tony cooper
No, I haven't. If I do get ripped off, it will be a seller or a
buyer. PayPal will never burn me if the seller or my buyer doesn't.
PayPal's "protection plan" is there to get you out of a problem if you
follow their clearly stated rules. They don't put you *in* a problem
situation, though. The other party in the sales transaction does.
erie patsellis
> The problem with paypal is that if you are selling, it is easy to get
> scammed because there is an easy procedure for the buyer to get a
> refund and not return the actual item to you.
100% Correct, I sold an amplifier on ebay, listed as non working, as-is, buyer paid
received it and had buyers remorse, filed a complaint, paypal arbitrarily deducted the
$400 from my account, then after everything was said and done, I have no product, and no
$400 either.
erie
Bruce
>scammers keep changing their Ebay identity. I can't see how these
>sites could keep track otherwise. And you can change your Ebay name
>anytime.
A seller can change their eBay UserID but if they have kept their
existing account and merely changed the name they still carry the
negative feedback with them. Also, if you search on the old UserID, you
will find the account.
I'm interested in the comments about rockycamera (Keith Rock) as I have
probably bought about forty or fifty items from him over the last few
years (I don't keep a count). There have been problems with only two,
and returning them elicited a rapid refund including return postage in
both cases. Sometimes his communications are a little terse, though.
I'm prepared to put up with the risk of having to return something as he
often sells good items at ridiculously cheap prices. I think he buys
mainly from camera fairs, which explains the dusty cosmetic condition of
many items. The photos he uses in the adverts seem to emphasise the
dust. I think that puts many buyers off, but I'm happy because it keeps
prices low.
On the basis of my own experience, I certainly wouldn't avoid buying
from him again in future. I have dealt with many eBay sellers who are
far, far worse than Keith Rock.
Bill Graham
"TheRealSteve" <st...@example.com> wrote in message
news:tu3jp4p2vebssa3hu...@4ax.com...
>
> On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:45:25 +0100, Christopher Loffredo
> <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>tony cooper wrote:
>>> On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:24:38 +0100, Rol_Lei Nut
>>> <Speleo_karst...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Peter wrote:
>>>>> Grimly Curmudgeon <grimly...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> I urge everyone to boycott this scumbag.
>>>>> Interesting.... I wonder if the existence of these websites is why
>>>>> scammers keep changing their Ebay identity. I can't see how these
>>>>> sites could keep track otherwise. And you can change your Ebay name
>>>>> anytime.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's easy with scam sellers - they get bad feedback which you can see.
>>>>> Scam buyers don't - they can just keep going.
>>>>>
>>>>> Paypal will always protect the buyer.
>>>> Ha!
>>>>
>>>> I got a defective camera, started a case, and Paypal just closed the
>>>> case because I'm away from home and couldn't meet their 8-day deadline
>>>> for sending the camera back to the seller, over 2.5 months after I
>>>> bought the item.
>>>>
And, "Discover" is the best card for protection of the buyer....It's so
good, in fact, that many sellers refuse to take it.
Don McC
"Bruce" <n...@nospam.net> wrote in message:
> On the basis of my own experience, I certainly wouldn't avoid buying
> from him again in future. I have dealt with many eBay sellers who are
> far, far worse than Keith Rock.
Any chance that some fly-by-night weasel simply purchased the "Rocky
Camera" eBay account from the original seller? The business appears to
have done a 180 on ethical practices. The neg FBs are quickly piling up.
--
Don
Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are much more pliable.
~ Mark Twain
Bruce
>"Bruce" <n...@nospam.net> wrote in message:
>
>> On the basis of my own experience, I certainly wouldn't avoid buying
>> from him again in future. I have dealt with many eBay sellers who are
>> far, far worse than Keith Rock.
>
>Any chance that some fly-by-night weasel simply purchased the "Rocky
>Camera" eBay account from the original seller?
No, it's still the same guy (Keith Rock) at the same mail address.
>The business appears to
>have done a 180 on ethical practices. The neg FBs are quickly piling up.
I got the impression that he opened the new account to escape a string
of negative feedback ratings and make a fresh start. I haven't bought
anything from him since late 2008 when his overall feedback rating on
the new account was somewhere around 99%.
I would still buy from him; I have had some excellent bargains and I buy
more on the basis of my own personal experience with sellers than on the
basis of listening to (often malicious) gossip on the internet.
Still, if I get my fingers burned, I cannot say that I hadn't been given
a warning. ;-)
Rich
news:tu3jp4p2vebssa3hu...@4ax.com:
>
>
And people wonder why Ebay and Paypal's receipts are down 30% in the last
14 months? It isn't just the economy, people are getting sick of the
charges, scams, and complete lack of coverage you receive from them. Ebay
only cares about income, and have insulated themselves from any
disreputable companies and buyers. Craig's List and the like exist (not
that they are free from scammers) because of the growing dislike of Ebay
and its minion, paypal.
Alan Browne
Over the years I've purchased via e-bay with 0 problems.
Over the years I've paid with PayPal with 0 problems.
It comes down to how you find the seller and communication.
Recently I've sold things via craiglslist and lespac.com - and bought
some great Alienbees via lespac.com as well (I went to pick up the
lights and paid cash on the barrel head in that case). I sold my
BetterBeamer and sent it before the fellow's cheque arrived...
--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
-- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out.
Paul Bartram
I avoid PayPal for two reasons, firstly because eBay tried to force people
to use the service (which they own), and secondly there are better (free)
alternatives. I always pay (and ask to be paid) via bank deposit, which can
be done online within a minute of receiving the email from the vendor
totalling the postage costs etc. After 72 transactions, I've never had a
problem (fingers crossed!)
Sure, if one party is going to rip off the other, you probably won't get any
help from the banks getting the transaction reversed, but then from what
I've read here, Paypal won't help you either!
Paul
Rol_Lei Nut
So you are saying again, as long as there is an open Paypal case, I
should sit at home and be ready to jump whenever they decide to say so?
They gave me their 7 & 8 day deadlines after a 2.5 month wait.
I also pity anyone who lives in a rural area who has to get a written
asessment/appraisal on an expert's letterhead within a week.
Do you work for Paypal?
Pete D
"Peter" <peter...@peter2-0-o-0.c0.uk> wrote in message
news:l1flp4h4r2n8ug4gv...@4ax.com...
>
> Rol_Lei Nut <Speleo_karst...@yahoo.com> wrote
> Paypal. Plenty of stuff on the web from ex PP employees describing why
> they do this.
Really the bottom line here is that sadly there are a lot of people out
there ripping people off, it staggers me just how many people are quite
prepared to steal from other human beings, not just on Ebay but in general
in most communities. Paypal does try and do the right thing but sometimes
the get it wrong.
me
"Grimly Curmudgeon" <grimly...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote in message
news:f8ghp4lofkl32osfo...@4ax.com...
You think thats bad, check this git out, reported to ebay and they have done
NOTHING
http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=bobob_uk&Dirn=Received+by&ref=home
tony cooper
<peter...@peter2-0-o-0.c0.uk> wrote:
>
>"Pete D" <n...@email.com> wrote
>
>>Really the bottom line here is that sadly there are a lot of people out
>>there ripping people off, it staggers me just how many people are quite
>>prepared to steal from other human beings, not just on Ebay but in general
>>in most communities. Paypal does try and do the right thing but sometimes
>>the get it wrong.
>>
>>
>I disagree - Paypal pretends to do "something" but actually some 98%
>of its resolutions are simply in favour of the buyer, with the other
>2% being randomly computer chosen to generate just enough contrary
>evidence to protect Paypal from a class action in the USA.
>
>There is very little evidence of human presence in Paypal. I have been
>banging on their email facility for weeks now. I gather that if one
>goes to the small claims court then they pull somebody out to deal
>with it - even if they rarely turn up to defend claims.
>
>Paypal does the right thing for buyers nearly all the time, but this
>policy supports scammer buyers.
Since I have both bought and sold on eBay, I used to follow the eBay
newsgroup. (I gave up on it, though, because there is rarely a really
interesting thread. It's a child's playground now.)
Half the posts complaining about PayPal say that PayPal favors the
buyers. The other half says that PayPal favors the sellers. The same
is true for the posts complaining about eBay.
Half the posts complaining about either eBay or PayPal use
pulled-from-the-ass statistics (like 98%), and the other half use
wild-ass-guess statistics (like 2%).
Half the posts complaining about either eBay or PayPal say there is
not enough human presence at either. The other half says the fees for
both are too high, and that is undoubtedly caused by spending too much
money on payroll.
Willy Eckerslyke
> Half the posts complaining about either eBay or PayPal use
> pulled-from-the-ass statistics (like 98%), and the other half use
> wild-ass-guess statistics (like 2%).
So you're saying that 50% of posts use pulled-from-the-ass statistics,
while the other 50% use wild-ass-guess statistics?
50%?
You sure about that?
Grimly Curmudgeon
something like:
>You think thats bad, check this git out, reported to ebay and they have done
>NOTHING
>
>http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=bobob_uk&Dirn=Received+by&ref=home
And they never will - he generates too much income for them.
tony cooper
I know it's a cheeky thing to say, butt I checked my sources. I
wouldn't want to give you a bum steer.
John McWilliams
I can't find a crack in tony's logic.
--
lsmft
Ken Hart1
"Willy Eckerslyke" <oss108...@bangor.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:70238kF...@mid.individual.net...
I'm sure that half the people in this country can't do math and the other
three-quarters don't care.
me
"Grimly Curmudgeon" <grimly...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote in message
news:js1op4h2hfk79nnq8...@4ax.com...
EXACTLY!!!
Even mentioned that to them when i complained when he robbed me
Art
Paypal has always done right by me.
"erie patsellis" <er...@eriepatsellis.com> wrote in message
news:qZkml.574708$yE1.531455@attbi_s21...
Art
paypal immediately called me to verify that it was me and that I wasn't
nuts.
"Peter" <peter...@peter2-0-o-0.c0.uk> wrote in message
news:b06mp49u92i91mjg6...@4ax.com...
>
> "Pete D" <n...@email.com> wrote
>
>>Really the bottom line here is that sadly there are a lot of people out
>>there ripping people off, it staggers me just how many people are quite
>>prepared to steal from other human beings, not just on Ebay but in general
>>in most communities. Paypal does try and do the right thing but sometimes
>>the get it wrong.
>>
>>
erie patsellis
likely fall on deaf ears.
The fact is I'm not alone, and don't sell on ebay anymore as a result, one idiot can ruin
your profits, and the majority of them seem to live on ebay.
Bill Graham
"Art" <begunaNOS...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:A-mdnexj2o8TOzzU...@earthlink.com...
via mail order demanded my paying first, and then quite sometime later, the
seller would ship me the item, but only after the check had cleared, and/or
the money was clutched in his tight little fist. I have no idea how I would
go about ripping off a seller. That's why they say, "let the buyer beware".
You should check the seller's feedback very well before you buy anything
from him, because both the goods and your money will be in his hands at the
same time.
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
> If you paid by cheque then you cannot do this - you are quite right.
However if you pay by check, and send the check via the mail, it becomes
mail fraud, which is agressively persued in the US by the Post Office police.
The downside of paying by check, money order, or wire transfer is that in
the US, your bank has to pay you, by law, long before the money clears or
they find out you deposited a stolen or fake check/etc.
Con men know about this and get you to send them the item between the time
the money is put in your account by the bank and when it bounces and is removed.
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel g...@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
Willy Eckerslyke
> Interestingly I have just done a new Ebay listing and as far as I
> could see, Paypal is not a mandatory payment option.
So did you actually try listing without offering Paypal? Or are you just
refering to the option to untick a box?
> I thought it was.
I listed a car trailer the other day without offering Paypal (some car
categories are exempt from mandatory Paypal), but when I then listed a
camera without remembering to change my accepted payment methods, eBay
wouldn't allow me to complete the listing until I'd provided a Paypal
account number. The message that came up said that it _is_ mandatory.
Rob Morley
g...@mendelson.com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) wrote:
> Peter wrote:
>
> > If you paid by cheque then you cannot do this - you are quite right.
>
> However if you pay by check, and send the check via the mail, it
> becomes mail fraud, which is agressively persued in the US by the
> Post Office police.
>
Is this not also the case with wire fraud?
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
> Is this not also the case with wire fraud?
I don't know who investigates wire fraud, but it is NOT the Postal Police.
AFAIK PayPal was setup to avoid being regulated and covered by any laws.
They found a loophole and took it.
Trev
<oss108...@bangor.ac.uk> Willy Eckerslyke bashed on keyboard and
typed:
Perhaps they think you cant send a trailer though the post unseen
--
Trev
Nobody is perfect.
But Being a Yorkshire man is as close as you can get.
Rob Morley
g...@mendelson.com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) wrote:
> Rob Morley wrote:
> > Is this not also the case with wire fraud?
>
> I don't know who investigates wire fraud, but it is NOT the Postal
> Police.
I meant that it's a federal offence, and thus taken quite seriously.
>
> AFAIK PayPal was setup to avoid being regulated and covered by any
> laws. They found a loophole and took it.
>
Why does that not surprise me?
Rob Morley
Peter <peter...@peter2-0-o-0.c0.uk> wrote:
> Fortunately Ebay allows one to cancel bids.
>
But you have to spot it before the listing closes ...
Michael
No more checks, no more money orders on ebay. ONLY Paypal. That is all
they allow now.
--
Michael
Rob Morley
Michael <adunc...@mypacks.net> wrote:
> No more checks, no more money orders on ebay. ONLY Paypal. That is
> all they allow now.
All sellers have to offer PayPal as an option, but they can also accept
other methods of payment.
DRS
news:20090225034900.091b70ef@bluemoon
Evilbay experimented with the Paypal Only option in Australia not so long
ago as a prelude to doing that across all their sites. They were forced to
back down in disgrace after the Australian Consumer and Competition
Commission (ACCC) told them in no uncertain terms such monopolistic
behaviour was anti-competitive and illegal.
Twibil
> No more checks, no more money orders on ebay. ONLY Paypal. That is all
> they allow now.
You've been suckered by eBay's scare tactics.
According to my lawyer, eBay cannot legally require sellers to accept
only Paypal. What they *can* legally do -and are trying to do now- is
keep sellers from *advertising* that they take non-PayPal forms of
payment. eBay can do this simply because they own the eBay website and
can legally control what's advertised there.
In actual fact, many sellers are ignoring eBay's commandments, and are
continuing to advertise that they take paper payments; this in the
face of eBay's threats to pull all their ads if they continue. (And
many buyers have figured this bit out already and are now posting each
seller to ask them individually if they still take paper payments. Of
the 100 or so I've asked so far, exactly *none* have turned me down.
Paper payments are alive and well, to eBay's great discomfort.)
If eBay *does* start pulling auctions they're likely to lose some of
their biggest customers, and *that* will encourage others to start up
online auction sites in competition with eBay -who does *not* own the
idea- and these new sites would hopefully not make the same self-
defeating moves that eBay has made in the last year or two.
Some people just can't stand success, and the current eBay management
is a prime exampole of this mind-set.
~Pete
Michael
Which means the scamming buyer will use Paypal and the seller has no choice.
--
Michael