Freeware to mix photos & music & video to create a DVD slide show
Bill Wells
exactly what I want but it's not freeware.
Is there freeware that will do what Sonic MyDVD does?
Namely:
a. We can slide JPEG photos onto it and attach an MP3 song or two
b. The program would automatically fit the pictures to the song length
c. The result would be a photo slideshow with music that we can burn to DVD
It's a plus if we can add MOV and MPG movies to the DVD with this program.
Sonic MyDVD did all that but it's not freeware.
Is there a free program download that creates a TV-playable photo/video DVD
slideshow movie like this?
LouB
If the software is on a CD could you not borrow it?
Lou
Marv_M
news:KhQel.19356$ZP4....@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com:
Albeit may be argued that it's not really free, Microsoft Moviemaker comes
with Windows XP (could be on Vista also) and should be able to get the job
done.
Bill Wells
> Albeit may be argued that it's not really free, Microsoft Moviemaker comes
> with Windows XP (could be on Vista also) and should be able to get the job
> done.
Now that's a good idea!
Googling, I found where to get Movie Maker freeware
http://www.download.com/Windows-Movie-Maker-Windows-XP-/3000-13631_4-10165075.html?cdlPid=10187903
But, I found the version 2.1 executable in the Microsoft Windows XP folder
"C:\Program Files\Movie Maker\moviemk.exe"
According to wikipedia, development of this program has been "abandoned"
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Movie_Maker"
I wanted to update it to the latest version but after googling and finding
this email from Bill Gates himself, I decided I'd better leave well enough
alone.
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/archives/141821.asp
I'm digging for tutorials now ...
Thanks!
miskairal
maker
http://www.nchsoftware.com/slideshow/index.html
which I downloaded months ago and still haven't got round to using.
However I just checked it out and you can
a. Drag jpgs from windows explorer to the Photostage window
b. Add MP3 or WAV files (maybe others) however I doubt they would
automatically be the right length and didn't add enough pics to try it.
c. "Build" the slideshow to go on a DVD as well as a CD, a computer, a
portable device, a mobile phone, a Mac and it also says other media.
It might be the nearest you'll get to what you want.
tony cooper
tony cooper
Forgot to mention Photo Story 3...Papa John covers that well, too.
It's free from Microsoft and makes DVD slide shows.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/PhotoStory/default.mspx
D.Mac
"tony cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:925on4tga564nqoqm...@4ax.com...
>>Best source for info on MovieMaker: http://www.papajohn.org/
>
> Forgot to mention Photo Story 3...Papa John covers that well, too.
> It's free from Microsoft and makes DVD slide shows.
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/PhotoStory/default.mspx
>
> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Photo story 3 is not entirely free if you want to burn a DVD. You have to
buy a "Sonic" plugin that at best is a flakey bit of software that sometimes
works, sometimes doesn't.
What's wrong with spending a couple of bucks on ProShow? At least it works
properly!
D-Mac
alvey
Try a great piece of freeware from Microsoft (gasp!).
Photostory 3.
It does all you want and more. Extras include; pan & zoom, captions on pix
option & transitions galore. (If u like that sort of thing). You can knock
up a show in under 30 minutes.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/PhotoStory/default.mspx
alvey
--
The best of the best in Freeware
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
------------------------------------------
There is no ACF FAQ.
CJY
recommendations for what you are looking for.
HTH
Chris
"Bill Wells" <hamm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:KhQel.19356$ZP4....@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
John Corliss
> Bill Wells wrote:
>
>> A friend showed me Sonic MyDvd which came with his camera and it does
>> exactly what I want but it's not freeware.
>>
>> Is there freeware that will do what Sonic MyDVD does?
>>
>> Namely:
>> a. We can slide JPEG photos onto it and attach an MP3 song or two
>> b. The program would automatically fit the pictures to the song length
>> c. The result would be a photo slideshow with music that we can burn to DVD
>>
>> It's a plus if we can add MOV and MPG movies to the DVD with this program.
>>
>> Sonic MyDVD did all that but it's not freeware.
>> Is there a free program download that creates a TV-playable photo/video DVD
>> slideshow movie like this?
>
> Try a great piece of freeware from Microsoft (gasp!).
> Photostory 3.
> It does all you want and more. Extras include; pan & zoom, captions on pix
> option & transitions galore. (If u like that sort of thing). You can knock
> up a show in under 30 minutes.
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/PhotoStory/default.mspx
I installed it and it's pretty easy to use, however I couldn't find a
way to control the transition effects. Am I missing something?
Otherwise, yeah, it's pretty good. Would also like to be able to
maximize the program window too.
--
John Corliss BS206. I use nFilter to block all Google Groups posts
because of Googlespam. No ad, cd, commercial, cripple, demo, dotnet,
nag, share, spy, time-limited, trial or web wares OR warez for me, please.
aracARI
> I installed it and it's pretty easy to use, however I couldn't find a
> way to control the transition effects. Am I missing something?
Over here, a Louisville Slugger, Willie Mays special, 36 ounces, this is
certainly yours.
No need to say "Thanks", John, back to watching BB's ass for sporgers
and ass plunderers you can go after you and....
"this is no shit. You don't want to fuck with me. You have been warned."
Comforting words.
alvey
> -40TUDE- alvey wrote:
>> Bill Wells wrote:
>>
>>> A friend showed me Sonic MyDvd which came with his camera and it does
>>> exactly what I want but it's not freeware.
>>>
>>> Is there freeware that will do what Sonic MyDVD does?
>>>
>>> Namely:
>>> a. We can slide JPEG photos onto it and attach an MP3 song or two
>>> b. The program would automatically fit the pictures to the song length
>>> c. The result would be a photo slideshow with music that we can burn to DVD
>>>
>>> It's a plus if we can add MOV and MPG movies to the DVD with this program.
>>>
>>> Sonic MyDVD did all that but it's not freeware.
>>> Is there a free program download that creates a TV-playable photo/video DVD
>>> slideshow movie like this?
>>
>> Try a great piece of freeware from Microsoft (gasp!).
>> Photostory 3.
>> It does all you want and more. Extras include; pan & zoom, captions on pix
>> option & transitions galore. (If u like that sort of thing). You can knock
>> up a show in under 30 minutes.
>>
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/PhotoStory/default.mspx
>
> I installed it and it's pretty easy to use, however I couldn't find a
> way to control the transition effects. Am I missing something?
Yep. [Insert smartarse comment here]
When you select the 'Customise Motion' option there's two tabs on the new
window. 'Motion & Duration' & 'Transition'. The Transition window offers
masses of (useless) options and a selection box for how long the transition
is to take. Imho, 'Fade to Black' & 'Cross Fade' are the only sensible
choices.
Bill Wells
> http://www.techsupportalert.com/
Wow. This is a great head start.
At first, I was looking for a freeware version of Sonic MyDVD but now I
have lots of good options to choose from in order to make slide shows with
music of home video and photograhps.
I'll make a slide show DVD with pictures & movies as a test but first let's
summarize what was suggested so far (in no particular order).
Microsoft Windows Movie Maker 2.1 Review:
http://www.papajohn.org/AboutMovieMaker.html
Microsoft XP Windows Movie Maker 2.1 Download:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/updates/moviemaker2.mspx
Microsoft Vista Windows Movie Maker 2.6 Download:
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/Windows_Movie_Maker.htm
Microsoft Windows Movie Maker 2.1 Tutorial:
http://www.papajohn.org/
Microsoft PhotoStory 3 for Windows:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/PhotoStory/default.mspx
NCH Software Photo Slideshow Creator:
http://www.nchsoftware.com/slideshow/index.html
AquaSoft SlideShow for YouTube version 6:
http://www.dvd-photoshow.com/SlideShowYouTube_en.as?ActiveID=2122
John Corliss
Found it. Thanks for your help!
miskairal
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 18:37:49 -0800, Bill Wells wrote:
>
>> A friend showed me Sonic MyDvd which came with his camera and it does
>> exactly what I want but it's not freeware.
>>
>> Is there freeware that will do what Sonic MyDVD does?
>>
>> Namely:
>> a. We can slide JPEG photos onto it and attach an MP3 song or two
>> b. The program would automatically fit the pictures to the song length
>> c. The result would be a photo slideshow with music that we can burn to DVD
>>
>> It's a plus if we can add MOV and MPG movies to the DVD with this program.
>>
>> Sonic MyDVD did all that but it's not freeware.
>> Is there a free program download that creates a TV-playable photo/video DVD
>> slideshow movie like this?
>
> Try a great piece of freeware from Microsoft (gasp!).
> Photostory 3.
> It does all you want and more. Extras include; pan & zoom, captions on pix
> option & transitions galore. (If u like that sort of thing). You can knock
> up a show in under 30 minutes.
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/PhotoStory/default.mspx
>
>
> alvey
good quality? I found this when I went to download it months ago....
"Q. What is required to playback a photo story?
A.
To playback a photo story, all you need is a media player that can play
Windows Media Video (WMV) files, such as Windows Media Player 10."
and
"Making your own DVDs is just a click away wih this powerful plug-in.
Photo Story 3 brings your digital photos to life by making it easy for
you to create professional-looking slideshows. Now, with the Sonic DVD
Plug-in for Photo Story 3, you can save your favorite memories on DVD to
share with family and friends. Get more information on the Sonic Web
site and download the plug-in for $19.99 US."
Truth...@hope.com
<hamm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 09:54:47 -0000, CJY wrote:
>> http://www.techsupportalert.com/
>
>Wow. This is a great head start.
Don't settle for some plain no frills package that only makes blah
slideshows when for the same price or less you can create full
featured videos and professional level DVD's with full chapter
support, motion menu, etc., plus great looking slideshows that allow
tons of special effects including the "Ken Burns effect" ie
pan/crop/zoom to bring your still images to life by adding motion.
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/products/studiofamily.asp
Don't know what the "Ken Burns" effect often seen in documentaries and
other commercial presentations is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Burns_Effect
Yeah, I know, Movie Maker offers a crude version, but little actual
control of the cropping or zoom/pan which makes all the difference.
Bill Wells
>> Try a great piece of freeware from Microsoft (gasp!).
>> Photostory 3.
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/PhotoStory/default.mspx
> I don't think you can burn to DVD with this though, or perhaps not very
> good quality? I found this when I went to download it months ago....
Alas. According to papajohn ...
"To get movies to standard DVDs, users have to use other disc authoring and
burning software [than Microsoft Windows Movie Maker 2.1]
REF: http://www.papajohn.org/AboutMovieMaker.html
Yet, according to Microsoft ...
"You can save a Windows Movie Maker project to a high-quality video file,
and then burn (or write) that file to a DV"
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/moviemaker/create/savetodvd.mspx
Does anyone use Microsoft Windows Move Maker 2.1 on Windows XP who can tell
us who is right? Does Microsoft Movie Maker 2.1 create a DVD that we can
play on a TV from a normal DVD player or not?
tony cooper
wrote:
I've made DVDs of Photo Story 3 and MovieMaker files and had them work
fine. I happen to use Nero as a DVD burner, but I'm sure any burning
program will do the same.
The problem is that not all DVD players will play DVDs made on
computers no matter what program creates the DVD. If you create a DVD
on your computer, and it plays on your computer, you don't really know
that it will play on a DVD player hooked to a television. I have two
DVD players; each connected to a different TV set. One plays DVDs I
create on the computer and the other doesn't. I have no idea what the
difference is in players.
tony cooper
I use MovieMaker and Picture Story 3 on a PC with Windows XP. I've
never been able to burn a DVD from either program. I burn the DVD
with Nero without a problem, though.
Here's a page of links to free DVD burning programs. I've never used
any of them since I have Nero, one might work for you.
Don't assume, though, that the DVD will play on any DVD player
connected to the TV. Some DVD players will not play a computer-made
DVD regardless of what program created the DVD.
Bill Wells
> Don't assume, though, that the DVD will play on any DVD player
> connected to the TV. Some DVD players will not play a computer-made
> DVD regardless of what program created the DVD.
Aha! I just realized that, from the "fine print" at
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/moviemaker/create/savetodvd.mspx
So, for my purpose, that drops Microsoft Windows Movie Maker 2.1 off the
list of programs that can create DVD-format ouput data out of home movies
and photographs that can play on anyone's DVD player attached to their TV
once burned to a DVD disc. :(
I'm not worried, once I have DVD data, how to burn to a DVD disc because
I'll use ImgBurn freeware to create the DVD-disc - but to have to convert
the data from the output of the Microsoft program (using something like DVD
Flick freeware or equivalent) is just too much.
Any program advertised to make DVDs out of home pictures and movies should
output DVD-format data!
Sigh. I'll start looking at the other suggested programs to see if any of
them create DVD-format output data from home movies + pictures slide shows.
J. Clarke
Native DVD burning support was added in Vista. DVD authoring is a
separate step from video editing, which is what WMM does.
http://www.online-tech-tips.com/computer-tips/burn-wmv-to-dvd/
discusses some freeware options for the authoring program and burner.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Bill Wells
> The problem is that not all DVD players will play DVDs made on
> computers no matter what program creates the DVD.
The problem here is that the word "DVD" stands for two totally separate
things and Microsoft is taking advantage of the confusion to make you think
their program does something it just doesn't appear to do.
DVD is the format of the data and DVD is the type of disc used. You can put
any data on a type DVD disc but only DVD-format data will play on your
average DVD player hooked to your TV set.
Since these are of the kids at the football and basketball games, the
result must be in DVD format on a standard DVD disk that can be played on
anybody's DVD player attached to their TV.
I'm aghast that Microsoft made these two highly-touted products
(PhotoStory3 and MovieMaker2.1), neither of which seems to output DVD
format data (i.e., VOB and IFO files).
Sigh. I'll just look at the other suggestions to see if they can create
DVD-format output data from an input of three things:
INPUT:
JPEG + MP3 (for background sound) + MOV or AVI short videos
OUTPUT:
VOB + IFO
Bill Wells
> http://www.online-tech-tips.com/computer-tips/burn-wmv-to-dvd/
Aha! It's clearly stated here, but not on Microsoft's pages, that Microsoft
Windows XP Movie Maker does NOT create DVD-format data (even if that
non-DVD-format data can be placed on a DVD disc).
Here's what your reference said:
"There is no option in Windows Movie Maker to burn your finished movie
(WMV) to a DVD. Windows Movie Maker only lets you burn it to a CD! Now
that’s just plain wrong. So in order to burn the WMV file to a DVD, you
have to use a couple of free third party programs to get the job done."
The reference said to use DVD Flick freeware plus ImgBurn freeware, both of
which I'm familiar with. DVD Flick is great but often takes forever and
often fails on me while ImgBurn is also great (an offshoot of the venerable
if misspelled DVDDecrypter program of late).
But, I am looking for a Sonic MyDVD replacement which is a program that
takes:
INPUT = JPEG + MP3 + MOV/MPEG/AVI/WMV/etc
OUTPUT = 4.7GB VOB + IFO
Since I'd rather find a single freeware program that inputs JPEG pictures,
MP3 songs, and MOV/MPEG home videos, and outputs single-layer (4.7GB)
DVD-format data (VOBs and IFOs)..,.....
I'm now looking at the only viable suggestion left, which is ...
PhotoStage SlideShow Producer, version 1.12 (http://www.nchsoftware.com/)
Truth...@hope.com
<hamm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
It depends on WHICH version of Windows Vista you have. The Business
version does NOT support burning DVD's directly with included Windows
software (expect data DVD's) however both the Home Premium and Ultra
versions include something called DVD Maker which sadly is more crap
from which you are suppose to be able to take Movie Maker projects and
convert to compliant DVD format using DVD Maker. Since I have the
business version of Vista I can't offer how well or if it actually
works well enough for serious use. I'll bet it doesn't support
chapters or anything advanced, typical of Microsoft. Read note at
bottom.
Hint: To make a COMPLIANT DVD (that should play on just about any
free standing DVD player) you need to start with a MPEG-2 file (files)
as the primary source. This is the END product AFTER you've finished
all your video editing work. The generated MPEG-2 files are the SOURCE
from which a DVD image is made. A task many applications can handle,
however "free" software and cheapware cut corners and leave off
important and often needed features/tools resulting in Mickey Mouse
results.
The hitch is few packages allow for anything except for a CRUDE menu
system UNLESS they are sold as TRUE DVD Authoring software. Other
software while feature rich ignores established specs and guidelines
resulting in the produced DVD NOT playing on many free standing
players or skipping or stalling during playback.
For a true commercial like home brew DVD you need DVD Authoring
software which adds Chapters, motion menu choices, sub titles, etc..
which was why I started by mentioning Sony's line of authoring
software. One package does it all from initial video editing to DVD
Authoring and very well.
I use their full blown Vegas Pro and their DVD Architect, however the
lessor version labeled under Studio is based on Vegas and has many of
the professional features at a much lower price then the full package.
Notes:
Confusion rules in video where you're first starting out. Many terms
are interchangeable and common terms can be confusing and misleading.
Take "burning" a DVD. Windows Visa can "burn" a DVD. That simply means
you can copy files to a blank DVD and they can be played back on a
computer. So you could "burn" a AVI or MPEG or other video formats and
as long as the computer you play it back on has the necessary CODEC to
decompress the video... it will play. Such DVD's are commonly called
"DATA" DVD's simply because all the software does is COPY the files
which is why they should play on a computer, but won't on a free
standing DVD player hooked up to a TV or on the newer portable DVD
players.
True DVD "burning" involves converting the source file (typically a
MPEG-2) into a format ANY DVD player can understand. This is usually a
two step process special software (DVD Authoring) or common software
packages like Nero or Roxio can handle. The rub is while products like
Nero and Roxio can handle simple drag and drop and you can make a
crude DVD by this method it leaves a lot to be desired and few are
satisfied with the end result. I sure wasn't.
True DVD Burning takes a compliant (MPEG-2) file for each video and
first strips the audio portion and converts the MPEG-2 steam into AC3
format or another format the DVD player can read, the de facto DVD
standard for audio is AC3. Then it makes a "image" file (actual
several) one for each video and the menu. These are the various VOB
and BUP files you'll see inside the Video_TS folder on a DVD.
The downside is unless you use true DVD Authoring software your
finished DVD will be hard to navigate or force some ugly cookie cutter
style menu which you'll probably hate.
Real DVD Authoring involves letting YOU decide what images to use on
the menu, it's background, decide if or not you want background music
for the menu system, build a sub menu system, be able to animate the
thumbnails for each menu object, have an animated background, decide
when it starts to play/stop, add a introduction that branches, etc.,
if or not to repeat how/when to jump back to the main/sub menu, jump
to other sections automatically, add sub titles, alternate language
supports, etc., all the things you've seen and come to expect on
commercial DVD's.
The bottom line is simply this... if you are SERIOUS about making
DVD's and plan on doing more than a few a year avoid the heartburn and
headaches and invest in decent DVD Authoring/Editing software now,
because you'll buy it later anyway if you're anything close to a
perfectionist.
Yeah... I'm serious, been doing it even since there were burnable
DVD's and I've made over a 1,000. I've tried just about every software
package there is and NOTHING beats Sony's line. Nothing at any price.
tony cooper
<hamm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:48:20 -0500, tony cooper wrote:
>
>> Don't assume, though, that the DVD will play on any DVD player
>> connected to the TV. Some DVD players will not play a computer-made
>> DVD regardless of what program created the DVD.
>
>Aha! I just realized that, from the "fine print" at
>http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/moviemaker/create/savetodvd.mspx
>
>So, for my purpose, that drops Microsoft Windows Movie Maker 2.1 off the
>list of programs that can create DVD-format ouput data out of home movies
>and photographs that can play on anyone's DVD player attached to their TV
>once burned to a DVD disc. :(
I don't think you understand. *Any* program that creates a file that
will be burned to a DVD may not result in a DVD that will not play on
a particular DVD player. It's a *not* problem with MovieMaker or
Picture Story 3; it's a problem with the compatibility of the DVD
player and a DVD burned on a computer.
>I'm not worried, once I have DVD data, how to burn to a DVD disc because
>I'll use ImgBurn freeware to create the DVD-disc - but to have to convert
>the data from the output of the Microsoft program (using something like DVD
>Flick freeware or equivalent) is just too much.
>
>Any program advertised to make DVDs out of home pictures and movies should
>output DVD-format data!
They do. However, any DVD player will not play the DVDs.
>Sigh. I'll start looking at the other suggested programs to see if any of
>them create DVD-format output data from home movies + pictures slide shows.
The only way to find out for sure is to make a DVD slideshow on
MovieMaker and try it on your DVD player that is attached to your TV.
Even then, you won't know if it will play on someone else's DVD player
attached to their TV.
J. Clarke
> On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:48:20 -0500, tony cooper wrote:
>
>> Don't assume, though, that the DVD will play on any DVD player
>> connected to the TV. Some DVD players will not play a
>> computer-made
>> DVD regardless of what program created the DVD.
>
> Aha! I just realized that, from the "fine print" at
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/moviemaker/create/savetodvd.mspx
>
> So, for my purpose, that drops Microsoft Windows Movie Maker 2.1 off
> the list of programs that can create DVD-format ouput data out of
> home movies and photographs that can play on anyone's DVD player
> attached to their TV once burned to a DVD disc. :(
If it has to play on ANYONE's then you simply can't do it with a
computer. This has nothing to do with the software. Some DVD players
won't play a DVD+R no matter how it was burned. A few won't play a
DVD-R no matter how it was burned. A few just plain don't like
anything but a factory-pressed DVD. Some are even picky about brands.
> I'm not worried, once I have DVD data, how to burn to a DVD disc
> because I'll use ImgBurn freeware to create the DVD-disc - but to
> have to convert the data from the output of the Microsoft program
> (using something like DVD Flick freeware or equivalent) is just too
> much.
>
> Any program advertised to make DVDs out of home pictures and movies
> should output DVD-format data!
>
> Sigh. I'll start looking at the other suggested programs to see if
> any of them create DVD-format output data from home movies +
> pictures
> slide shows.
--
Truth...@hope.com
There is no such thing as "DVD-format data". A blank DVD is simply the
media or canvas on which data is placed. The hardware that READS the
DVD determines if or not it can be first uncompressed then if so,
played. This is an internal process beyond your control. Success
depends on which type/number of Laser heads your DVD player has, what
bitrate the DVD has been encoded at and also if the files are
"compliant" meaning their conform to an established specification.
Surprise, making a true video DVD capable of playing on nearly any
player using too high a bitrate will crash many DVD players or cause
them to do strange thing. Anything from stuttering to dropped audio,
out of sync problems or flat out not playing at all. Thus a common
beginner mistake, trying to encode the DVD at the highest possible
bitrate in the mistaken assumption it means you'll end up with a
better quality DVD is what undoes many amateur DVD hobbyists.
Surprise two, much, actually most freeware video software is
G A R B A G E. Three exceptions EVERYONE doing video work should have
in their toolbox listed below.
MUST HAVE
VirtualDub (will "fix" many broken/damaged vids) by repairing,
replacing missing index files and in a pinch allowing you to open
files other video editors simply won't touch. You create a
uncompressed AVI, then use that as your source file in your favorite
editor.
Microsoft's Windows Media Encoder (way better than Movie Maker) only a
encoder, not a editor, but again will open and repair and convert some
file types like VirtualDub, allowing you to create a clean Windows
Media file (WMV)that then can be operated on in your favorite editor.
This can open Real Media, (RM)DivX and most Mpeg-4 files other
software won't.
GSpot (tells you WHICH CODEC on your system can play the file)
My time is worth way more than saving a few bucks. Geez, if you're
mainly doing DVD's for some team... pass the hat if the minor expense
of getting decent software is the issue. Freeware editing software
simply doesn't cut it, above exceptions excluded. They often lack
necessary features and will drive you nuts. That's my over 15 years
experience burning DVD's and before that CD's is telling you.
Depending on brand/model a DVD player can read many file types
directly including common still image file types like JPG. The issue
becomes WHICH DVD player is being used, what media, is it DVD-R or
DVD+, DVD ROM, not as big a issue as it once was, but still a issue.
The issue is while some DVD players can open non standard file types
and play them we're no longer talking about a true Video DVD. For that
you must begin with a true MPEG-2 file. The key is to use editing
software that READS any video/audio file like MP3, Mpeg-1, Mpeg-2,3,4,
MOV, RM, AVI, stills like Jpg, TIff, etc.. The mark of a GOOD
application is it doesn't care what the file type or frame size or
bitrate is. It should accept anything and everything in mixed order on
the timeline THEN convert that mixed up mess to MPEG-2 with the click
of a single button.
Visit VideoHelp.com. A wealth of how-to, tutorials, rankings for
everything CD/DVD, from burners to players to specifics on editing.
A GOOD software package will take ANYTHING video or audio you throw at
it and accept it on the timeline and in mixed order THEN produce a DVD
compliant file. This is not the end of your DVD burning exercise,
rather the beginning. Instead of worrying about VOB's and IFO's you
should simply BUY decent software and let IT handle the details.
People looking for FREE software often end up shooting themselves in
the foot and wasting much time and effort and in the end ending up
with garbage and a bad case of heartburn. Been there, done that too.
Your TIME should be invested in making the videos and resulting DVD's
BETTER, ie adding special effects, improving quality and smart
editing, not wasting time fiddling around try to get the dorky
software to do what it's suppose to do. That's how I spend my time.
99% doing the above, and 1% actually doing the DVD burning... that
once you do it CORRECTLY a few times should be and IS a piece of
cake... with the RIGHT software!
If you goal is to hand out/sell DVD to your team, friends, whatever,
then making FULLY COMPLIANT DVD's that play on ANY DVD player should
be your goal. Otherwise you will end up with hit or miss results with
many not being able to play the DVD's you create on THEIR players and
of course you'll be blamed or labeled as clueless. So start with
DECENT software that follow the "rules" and you avoid all the negative
issues.
John Corliss
John Corliss
But that's not freeware, and you're cross-posting into the
alt.comp.freeware newsgroup.
Bill Wells
> Maybe take the output from Photo Story 3 and run it through DVDFlick:
> http://www.dvdflick.net/
I've created 4.7GB DVD-format DVDs out of home video AVIs very many times
so I'm aptly aware of DVD Flick.
DVD Flick is a wonderful program, easy to use, and easy to create
DVD-format VOB & IFO files, all the while mixing the audio nicely (most of
the time) and creating automatic chapters, etc.
However, DVD Flick freeware is sllllllllooooooooooowwwwwwwwww on my laptop
and sometimes creates a video which has the sound off by a second or two
and it sometimes just hangs forever (8 hours or more). So, if I can help
it, I have no intention of adding an extra encoding step.
I don't want this to sound like an indictment of DVD Flick. DVD Flick is a
great program (I love the ease of use). I just don't want to run an
additional decoder.
I do understand DVDs rather well, for a layman, so, I do know what I'm
talking about when I say that the Microsoft products lie when they imply
they create DVDs. Sure, you can put ANYTHING on a DVD and call it a DVD,
but, it won't play in your average DVD player unless what you put on that
DVD are DVD-format files (i.e., VIDEO_TS/{*.VOB,*.IFO}.
Bill Wells
> I don't think you understand. *Any* program that creates a file that
> will be burned to a DVD may not result in a DVD that will not play on
> a particular DVD player. It's a *not* problem with MovieMaker or
> Picture Story 3; it's a problem with the compatibility of the DVD
> player and a DVD burned on a computer.
Hi Tony,
I think I understand, but, maybe I don't so I'll explain what I understand
and others can more clearly tell me where I am mistaken.
Here's what I've understood ever since DVD media came out:
- You can put ANYTHING on DVD media ...
- But that doesn't mean your average DVD player will play it ...
- Your average DVD plays
So what does your average DVD player play?
- Most play only DVD-format files (IFO & VOB)
- That means a mandatory VIDEO_TS at the top level (& optionally AUDIO_TS)
- The AUDIO_TS folder is generally empty; the files are all in VIDEO_TS
- In the VIDEO_TS folder are the mandatory IFO (information) files
- You can read those IFO files with IFOedit freeware
- In the VIDEO_TS folder are also VOB files (these are your video objects)
- Essentially the IFO files act like a table of contents to the VOB files
- Inside the VOB files are generally MPEG-2 encoded video streams
- The audio streams inside the VOB are generally MPEG-1 encoded
- The BUP (backup) files are just for the IFOs in case they're damaged
... etc...
I can go on but the point is that I do think I understand the basics of
what DVD-format data looks like, whether or not it's stored on DVD media.
SUMMARY:
If you're saying Microsoft Windows Movie Maker or Microsoft Picture Story 3
directly outputs these DVD-format files, then I stand corrected.
- VIDEO_TS\{VIDEO_TS.IFO,VTS_O1_0.IFO,VTS_01_0.BUP,etc.}
Bill Wells
> If it has to play on ANYONE's then you simply can't do it with a
> computer. This has nothing to do with the software. Some DVD players
> won't play a DVD+R no matter how it was burned. A few won't play a
> DVD-R no matter how it was burned. A few just plain don't like
> anything but a factory-pressed DVD. Some are even picky about brands.
Hi John,
OK. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you 'cuz you're the second person to tell me
that Microsoft Windows MovieMaker does output DVD-Video format DVDs ... so,
well, so I must be doing something wrong then. Let it be stated I KNOW not
every DVD player plays every DVD-Video format DVD, even brand new DVD-Video
format DVDs. We all know that.
In fact, as you noted, some DVD media is so crappy, it won't even burn
properly no matter what you put on it (see this chart for the crappy ones):
http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm
All I'm saying is that the Microsoft products don't seem to directly output
4.7GB DVD-Video format files (either NTSC or PAL). Simply stated, if
Microsoft tools don't directly output a top-level VIDEO_TS directory
containing video object (VOB) and information (IFO) files, then the
Microsoft products don't output DVD-Video data suitable to play on your
average DVD player.
Now maybe I'm wrong. And, if I am, I'll be glad 'cuz that means I can use
the Microsoft product so please clarify for me.
MY QUESTION:
Are you saying Microsoft Windows Movie Maker outputs DVD-Video format data?
(i.e., does MovieMaker create VIDEO_TS\{VIDEO_TS.IFO,VIDEO_TS.VOB} files?)
tony cooper
No, they don't. But they don't claim they do, and you keep saying
Microsoft is lying. The Microsoft programs will create a file that
can be burned on to a DVD. Whether or not your DVD player will play
those DVDs is not something Microsoft can claim.
In my case, the files I create in the two Microsoft programs, that I
burn to a DVD, play in one of my DVD players. They do not play in the
other one, but I don't blame Microsoft.
Bill Wells
> Forget Microsoft and Sony.
> Photostage Slideshow Maker
> http://www.nchsoftware.com/slideshow/index.html
Hi M.L.,
Thank you for your helpful advice!
PhotoStage SlideShow Producer v 1.12 looks like the only WinXP freeware
suggested so far which can directly output DVD-Video format files from a
combination of:
a. digital pictures (from my digital camera)
b. digital movies (from my digital camera)
c. MP3 audio (ripped & encoded as MP3s off my WAV CDs)
To be clear, all I'm looking for is Windows XP freeware that can take those
three types of files as input and output DVD-Video format files (i.e.,
VIDEO_TS\*.IFO,*.VOB files).
I'm not too worried if the program burns to DVD media (because ImgBurn
freeware does that for me). I'm not even worried if the DVD-Video format
files are larger than 4.7 GB because DVDShrink freeware will compress them
back to fit on single-layer DVD media.
The only step I don't want to manually do is the DVD-Video encoding (which
we all know can be done using DVDFlick freeware but as I said, I've used
that for years and it's problematic at best for me).
I'll test whether PhotoStage SlideShow Producer can take, as input, my
camera output to subsequently output DVD-Video format files. If it does, it
will be the only suggested freeware that can do what Sonic MyDVD does
today.
Bill Wells
>>If you're saying Microsoft Windows Movie Maker or Microsoft Picture Story 3
>>directly outputs these DVD-format files, then I stand corrected.
>>- VIDEO_TS\{VIDEO_TS.IFO,VTS_O1_0.IFO,VTS_01_0.BUP,etc.}
>
> No, they don't.
Thanks. That's what I was hoping to achieve. BTW, I'm aware that I can
probably use something like DVD Flick to take the output that the Microsoft
programs do output to convert it to DVD-Video format. And, I might have to
go that route. But I was hoping to skip that extra step, mostly because
I've used DVD Flick freeware for years and more often than I like, it takes
8 hours or it hangs forever or the sound is out of sync.
> But they don't claim they do, and you keep saying Microsoft is lying.
Well, here's exactly what they say on their tutorial for "making DVDs":
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/moviemaker/create/savetodvd.mspx
"Part of the tradition of home moviemaking is gathering the family around
the TV to watch the movie. You don’t have to give up that tradition when
you make the switch to digital video. You can save a Windows Movie Maker
project to a high-quality video file, and then burn (or write) that file to
a DVD using a DVD burner and video DVD burning program. You can then watch
the DVD in almost any standard DVD player. DVDs are a great way to share
movies with friends and family, and they make great gifts."
Now, between you and me, they didn't directly LIE because everything they
said is legally true .. but really .. we both know that the "high quality
video" file output by Microsoft Windows Movie Maker is NOT a DVD-Video
file.
And, we both know that the chances of watching that non-DVD-Video movie "in
almost any standard DVD player" is really really low.
Now, we both also know that even a perfectly good DVD-Video format DVD
won't play in every DVD player ... but c'mon ... you have to agree that
Microsoft is asserting implications here that are patently untrue in
practice.
Truth...@hope.com
You're STILL mixing apples and oranges. Microsoft's Movie Maker does
NOT create what you refer to as DVD-format files. Period. IF you have
the right version of Microsoft's Vista there is an included SEPERATE
program called Windows's DVD Maker. It comes with Vista Home Premium
and Ultimate versions only.
As you already know Microsoft is somewhat careless in how they state
what their software does that only adds to the confusion.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-vista/features/dvd-maker.aspx
Movie Maker, will generate MPEG-2 files. The source of creating files
that end up in a DVD's Video_TS folder.
To further confuse the issue DVD Maker is supposedly capable of taking
a project file from Movie Maker and will make a playable DVD from that
or so others have told me, myself having Vista Business which does not
include DVD Maker I don't know. Even if it did I would not use it
since it is so limited in what it can do.
I have played around with Microsoft's Movie Maker and it is garbage.
True to Microsoft's legacy indifference for their customers the
concept is good, but the implementation is horrible resulting in it
being a very unstable program that will drive you crazy. More so if
you try to add mixed file types to the timeline and if your project is
more than a few minutes in length.
Photo Story 3 can supposedly burn DVD's but only with a plug-in from
Sonic that costs $20.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/photostory/storyactives.mspx
Surprise... looking at the Sonic site it hints that the plug-in only
generates bland nearly featureless slideshow type presentations since
Sonic offers an "advanced" option to tease you to buy their (dorky)
MyDVD (I have version 9)which is really a Roxio product, a company
they (Sonic) owns, which supports at least some true DVD features like
chapters. I'll bet anything the basic plug-in does not. Having tried
several versions of Roxio software over the years I'll add their
products are at best one step above Microsoft's level of competence
which isn't saying much. Besides Roxio has some of the most clumsy
software out there.
Truth...@hope.com
Claim: "You can save a Windows Movie Maker project to a high-quality
video file..."
Truth: What Microsoft is talking about is creating a MPEG-2 file. Yes,
their Movie Maker application does that. Still buggy and slow.
Claim: "a DVD-Video file"
Truth. I rarely see anyone so hung-up on a term. Hint. There is no
specific thing as you keep referring to. The Video_TS structure
containing VOB and other files is but ONE format that can be
played off a DVD. With the right player you can encode a DVD to
play a slideshow of just raw JPEG images, or DivX, even AVI or
raw MPEG, even a mixture.
The Video_TS structure is by far the most popular and most widely
supported way to "burn" a DVD that has one or more videos and/or
slideshow. Remember... a slideshow is really nothing but a string of
still images converted to (usually) a MPEG-2 stream then made in VOB
files. Big deal.
I'll go way out on a limb and assume you know the difference between
the various media formats like DVD- and DVD+. That is one reason a
specific DVD may not play on some DVD players. Another reason is the
bitrate. Most beginners encode too high thinking that will result in
"better" image quality resulting in the DVD player stalling off and on
if it is able to properly decode the files at all.
As you can tell I'm no fan of Microsoft. They are simply using
puffing. A common advertising style that lets say stretches the truth
almost to the point it breaks. All software companies do it to some
extent.
Claim: Microsoft says it(DVD Maker)will create DVD's.
Truth: Well to stretch the point, yes. Assuming you have the correct
Vista version that includes DVD Maker which can (so I'm told)
convert the completed Movie Maker files. Maybe I haven't made
it clear yet. We're talking TWO separate programs Movie Maker
comes in all versions of Vista, DVD Maker only comes with
the Home Premium and Ultimate versions. So with Movie Maker you
will get as far as making compliant MPEG-2 source files from
WHICH another application can use to make the Video_TS file
structure, but you can't do it with just Movie Make. If you
have the RIGHT version of Vista, you also get DVD Maker which
will make the Video_TS file structure.
Claim: Chapters with DVD Maker?
Truth: Only the Rube Goldberg method. Again I'm told, (I wouldn't be
caught dead using Micrsoft crap) you have two choices, either
accept default breaks where Microsoft puts them or go through
the insane step of first making a separate project in Movie
Maker for EACH Chapter then add these to DVD Maker, but
(laughable) you still won't be able to add the chapter titles to
any menu rendering any such attempt useless.
Repeating until it sinks in ===>
For video editing and even more importantly for DVD Authoring any and
all Freeware solutions are crap and will not give you anything close
to commercial grade DVD's. The reason is quite simple. Many of the
more advanced programming tricks are copyright protected and no
freeware author could afford to pay the royalties.
It's been years since I checked. I think it's called the red book, if
not some other color. Just to get the "book" which simply spells out
the full specifications of the DVD format and HOW to code for it costs
hundreds of dollars and isn't available to the general public even if
you wanted to get a copy and then you would still need to be a
professional grade programmer to understand the coding methods which
are complex.
The same is true for freeware video editors. The MPEG-2 encoding
scheme is also copyright protected and to get a LEGAL copy royalties
need to be paid to the owners. Again, something no freeware author can
afford. So if that's what you're using and the result looks sort of
crappy, now you know why. You're probably using a pirated knock-off
decoder and the decoder/encoder is at the heart of any application
that creates the necessary MPEG-2 files. A none standard encoder
meaning some rip-off hack can introduce all kinds of issues into the
files you need to make a DVD.
Learning yet?
J. Clarke
> On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 19:20:46 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> If it has to play on ANYONE's then you simply can't do it with a
>> computer. This has nothing to do with the software. Some DVD
>> players won't play a DVD+R no matter how it was burned. A few
>> won't
>> play a DVD-R no matter how it was burned. A few just plain don't
>> like anything but a factory-pressed DVD. Some are even picky about
>> brands.
>
> Hi John,
>
> OK. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you 'cuz you're the second person to
> tell me that Microsoft Windows MovieMaker does output DVD-Video
> format DVDs ... so, well, so I must be doing something wrong then.
> Let it be stated I KNOW not every DVD player plays every DVD-Video
> format DVD, even brand new DVD-Video format DVDs. We all know that.
And yet you seem to be upset with Microsoft about this like they are
somehow doing something different that causes this.
Nobody has asserted that Windows Movie Maker will burn DVDs. It
doesn't. That's not what it does, that's not what it is supposed to
do. Its function is to edit video files. That is all it does. What
you do with those video files after you have edited them is up to you.
You need a different product to organize those files as required,
generate the menus, and do the other things needed in order to create
a DVD.
> In fact, as you noted, some DVD media is so crappy, it won't even
> burn
> properly no matter what you put on it (see this chart for the crappy
> ones): http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm
>
> All I'm saying is that the Microsoft products don't seem to directly
> output
> 4.7GB DVD-Video format files (either NTSC or PAL).
No, they do not. So what?
> Simply stated, if
> Microsoft tools don't directly output a top-level VIDEO_TS directory
> containing video object (VOB) and information (IFO) files, then the
> Microsoft products don't output DVD-Video data suitable to play on
> your average DVD player.
Which "Microsoft tools"? Windows Movie Maker is not _supposed_ to do
that anymore than Adobe Premiere or any other video editor is supposed
to do that. The Microsoft tool for making DVDs is Windows DVD Maker,
not Windows Movie Maker, and it is not available for XP. DVD
authoring is a separate function from video editing. Why are you
having so much trouble understanding this?
> Now maybe I'm wrong. And, if I am, I'll be glad 'cuz that means I
> can
> use the Microsoft product so please clarify for me.
>
> MY QUESTION:
> Are you saying Microsoft Windows Movie Maker outputs DVD-Video
> format
> data? (i.e., does MovieMaker create
> VIDEO_TS\{VIDEO_TS.IFO,VIDEO_TS.VOB} files?)
No, I have never said that or anything that any reasonable person
could have construed in that fashion. Windows Movie Maker creates
files in a variety of formats incuding DV-AVI which should be
accepeted by any DVD authoring program. Authoring the DVD is done
using the DVD authoring program, not the video editor.
tony cooper
<hamm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:37:40 -0500, tony cooper wrote:
>
>>>If you're saying Microsoft Windows Movie Maker or Microsoft Picture Story 3
>>>directly outputs these DVD-format files, then I stand corrected.
>>>- VIDEO_TS\{VIDEO_TS.IFO,VTS_O1_0.IFO,VTS_01_0.BUP,etc.}
>>
>> No, they don't.
>
>Thanks. That's what I was hoping to achieve. BTW, I'm aware that I can
>probably use something like DVD Flick to take the output that the Microsoft
>programs do output to convert it to DVD-Video format. And, I might have to
>go that route. But I was hoping to skip that extra step, mostly because
>I've used DVD Flick freeware for years and more often than I like, it takes
>8 hours or it hangs forever or the sound is out of sync.
>
>> But they don't claim they do, and you keep saying Microsoft is lying.
>
>Well, here's exactly what they say on their tutorial for "making DVDs":
>http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/moviemaker/create/savetodvd.mspx
>
>"Part of the tradition of home moviemaking is gathering the family around
>the TV to watch the movie. You don┤ have to give up that tradition when
>you make the switch to digital video. You can save a Windows Movie Maker
>project to a high-quality video file, and then burn (or write) that file to
>a DVD using a DVD burner and video DVD burning program. You can then watch
>the DVD in almost any standard DVD player. DVDs are a great way to share
>movies with friends and family, and they make great gifts."
>
>Now, between you and me, they didn't directly LIE because everything they
>said is legally true .. but really .. we both know that the "high quality
>video" file output by Microsoft Windows Movie Maker is NOT a DVD-Video
>file.
>
>And, we both know that the chances of watching that non-DVD-Video movie "in
>almost any standard DVD player" is really really low.
>
>Now, we both also know that even a perfectly good DVD-Video format DVD
>won't play in every DVD player ... but c'mon ... you have to agree that
>Microsoft is asserting implications here that are patently untrue in
>practice.
Microsoft is guilty of no more than what is called in the law
"puffery". (Look it up. It's a real legal term.) The term "high
quality" is a user-defined term (unless they define it) and the
quality is high enough for most home movie applications. Any software
program I've ever seen or read about does the same as Microsoft.
What I don't understand is that you seem to want high quality output
that will work on any DVD, but you are looking to create it for free.
If it's that important to you, pop for a real program. You want
professional results without being willing to pay for the
professionalism.
Nor do I understand why you keep turning down suggestions to try the
various programs that have been suggested. You don't seem to have
attempted to use either MovieMaker or Picture Story 3, and really have
no idea if they will work for your application or not. It's no big
deal to download, install, and try a program. You just uninstall if
they don't work.
Susan Bugher
> The problem is that not all DVD players will play DVDs made on
> computers no matter what program creates the DVD. If you create a DVD
> on your computer, and it plays on your computer, you don't really know
> that it will play on a DVD player hooked to a television. I have two
> DVD players; each connected to a different TV set. One plays DVDs I
> create on the computer and the other doesn't. I have no idea what the
> difference is in players.
You can probably find out which CD and DVD formats each of your DVD
players supports by searching here:
http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers
VideoHelp.com - DVD Player and Blu-ray Player Compatibility List
Susan
--
Posted to alt.comp.freeware
Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search?q=+group:alt.comp.freeware
Pricelessware & ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)
Bill Wells
> Nobody has asserted that Windows Movie Maker will burn DVDs.
Hi John,
It's OK now. I appreciate the clarification (and I apologize if I didn't
understand initially).
I think we totally agree on the main points. I somehow thought when I asked
for a 1:1 freeware replacement for Sonic MyDVD that the suggested Microsoft
Windows Movie Maker might be a perfect fit. That's all. Hence I was
confused.
I now know, and I think we all agree, that to replace the major
functionality of Sonic MyDVD, we'd need to add two additional software
actions to the output from Windows MovieMaker, the first to "organize" the
output from Windows Movie Maker into DVD-Video format files, and the second
to burn those DVD-Video format files to good-quality DVD media.
For me, the first freeware choice of those two programs would be:
1. Feed JPEG + MP3 + MOV into Windows MovieMaker, then feed that to
2. DVD Flick -> To convert to 4.7 GB DVD-Video format, then feed that to
3. ImgBurn -> To burn the results to single-layer 4.7GB DVD media
The good news is we now all agree on what Microsoft Windows MovieMaker does
and doesn't do - and, we can agree, it's certainly not a 1:1 replacement to
Sonic MyDVD, but, in defense of Windows Movie Maker, by adding this
additional key functionality, it probably would be a decent replacement.
Thanks for all your insight; it is much appreciated.
Bill Wells
> I guess I should have realized this newsgroup is apparently some
> hang-out for the rank amateur crowd that's clueless and also unwilling
> to learn and more than obvious too damn CHEAP to buy software
> preferring to waste their time hunting for some half-ass Mickey mouse
> alternatives then bitching after such junk doesn't work correctly or
> have the features they want. ;-)
Hi TruthSquad,
I'm sorry for some of the rants that occurred in this thread. I hope you'll
note that I have not stooped to that level.
As for the cheap freeware crowd, well, this is a freeware group :) and,
well, some of us have the definite opinion that nobody in their right mind
should ever buy software until they've tried and learned from the freeware
versions first.
It's a classic learning tool to start simple and cheap and slowly graduate
to the expensive and complex (yet more fully featured).
When you fly, you start in a single-engine plane. When you parachute, you
jump off a ladder first. When you scuba dive, you start in a pool. It's a
basic learning tool to start with simple tools.
Once you've used freeware, in general, after, say, a score of videos,
you'll know much better what it is you need and don't need. Better yet,
you'll make a much better informed decision as to what payware features you
want, and, most importantly, you'll also know which payware features are
pure filler.
So, please don't discount freeware so easily. It's a great learning tool
for the payware, and, it makes all of us better, even the payware. I mean,
why would anyone pay for any particular payware if they could get the
equivalent functionality for free.
Good luck. I, for one, much appreciate your assistance (even if I didn't
fully understand the nuances).
You see, only after they've performed the task multiple
Bill Wells
Hi TruthSquad,
It was good to see your analysis of Windows Movie Maker. I'm on WinXP so I
won't have access to the DVD-Video capabilities supposedly in the Vista
version.
> The Video_TS structure containing VOB and other files is but ONE
> format that can be played off a DVD.
I'm fully aware of this. My portable DVD player, in addition to playing
your basic DVD-Video DVD, also plays JPEG CDs, WAV CDs, MP3 CDs, AVI CDs,
(curiously it won't play these files on DVD media). On the other hand, my
settop DVD player connected to my TV will only play DVD-Video DVDs and JPEG
CDs but it won't play MP3s or AVIs on any media.
That's the whole point. If I'm going to create a DVD for a football game or
for a family event, I can't simply assume the recipient's DVD player can
play AVIs or DIV-X or whatever. About the only thing I can assume everyone
can play on almost every DVD player is your basic DVD-Video.
That's why I'm "hung up" on that format. It's because it has the best
chance of being played by people who have equipment I have absolutely no
control over.
> I'll go way out on a limb and assume you know the difference between
> the various media formats like DVD- and DVD+.
Well, I'm sure you know more than I do but I used to always buy good
quality 650 nm wavelength DVD-R media for compatibility with the really old
DVD players because DVD-R is about five years older than DVD+R players.
More often, nowadays, I use the newer DVD+R because of its better accuracy
and compatibility barely suffers because dual-format drives abound
nowadays.
> For video editing and even more importantly for DVD Authoring any and
> all Freeware solutions are crap and will not give you anything close
> to commercial grade DVD's.
For me, just taking pictures and videos off my camera, I wasn't expecting
commercial-grade DVDs anyway. What I want is an easy to use,
minimum-featured program that simply creates DVDs that others can watch on
their TV at home.
As I said in another post, my opinion is nobody should ever purchase any
software until they've tried the "equivalent" (if it exists) freeware that
performs a similar task.
Just like rock climbers practice on climbing walls before attempting to
climb Half Dome, anyone who gets proficient with the freeware tools has a
MUCH BETTER UNDERSTANDING of what they really want and need in the payware
equivalent.
So it's my advice to ALWAYS start with freeware before buying any software
program. Increasingly rarely is there not a freeware alternative to almost
anything you'd need to perform on a laptop PC so this advice is not only,
IMHO, sage advice, but it's increasingly applicable, year after year.
I can't even think of the last time I purchased software without first
using the freeware equivalents.
> Learning yet?
Yep. Lots. I appreciate your astute advice and thoughtful input!
Bill Wells
> The term "high quality" is a user-defined term (unless they define it)
Actually, the part I objected to most in Microsoft's "puffery" wasn't the
"high quality" but the leap of faith between these two sentences:
1.You can save a Windows Movie Maker project to a high-quality video file
and then burn (or write) that file to a DVD using a DVD burner and video
DVD burning program.
2. You can then watch the DVD in almost any standard DVD player.
The leap of faith, for me, is that Microsoft says the output from Windows
Movie Maker can be played in "almost any DVD player". Hell, it can't be
played on the DVD player I have connected to my TV. DVD-Video is probably
the most compatible of all formats and we all agree that Movie Maker isn't
creating DVD-Video format files.
Anyway, we've beaten the Microsoft "puffery" to death.
I was just prior confused by the earlier comments and by Microsoft's own
puffery - but we're all pretty clear on this now so we can move on to
getting things done.
Bill Wells
> What I don't understand is that you seem to want high quality output
> that will work on any DVD, but you are looking to create it for free.
Actually, quality isn't my objective at all.
You're the second person to say that (TruthSquad said the same). I don't
think I once mentioned high quality as an objective. Hell, the input files
aren't high quality to start with since they're coming off my camera, taken
in ad-hoc fashion of a football game or a campout event or a family picnic,
none of which has the audio or lighting for a high quality output.
I guess, in all fairness, people are assuming I asked for high quality
because I'm attempting to create DVD-Video format files; but the whole
point of the DVD-Video files was so that my DVDs (to use Microsoft's terms)
"could be watched in almost any standard DVD player".
Bill Wells
> You want professional results without being willing to pay
> for the professionalism.
Given that even you admitted that almost all software manufacturers are
guilty of what you called "puffery", you would have to agree with one of
the first rules of buying software.
One of the first rules of buying software is to first use the freeware
equivalent, for a sufficient period of time, so that you learn what it is
that you actually need. And want.
Often, if you don't follow that simple rule and end up buying software
based on promises made in a demo, or in advertising blurbs, you're likely
to be burned a few times.
In fact, those who ignore these first rules of buying software often don't
even know the right questions to ask, since they assume too much. They
often give too much or too little value to esoteric features, some of which
are important, many of which are unnecessary.
Plus, once you've use the freeware, if the payware is that much better as
you say it is, then you'll greatly appreciate those "patented algorithms".
Where's the harm in using freeware the first time you're authoring a
DVD-Video DVD?
Bill Wells
> You can probably find out which CD and DVD formats each of your DVD
> players supports by searching here:
> http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers
> VideoHelp.com - DVD Player and Blu-ray Player Compatibility List
Hi Susan,
That's a good link.
Combining, we have the following references for combining JPEG pictures
with MOV movies and MP3 background audio to create a DVD-Video compatible
with most common DVD players.
* Which formats does your DVD player support?
http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers
* Which media is best and which is crap?
http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm
* Which media is best (DVD+r vs DVD-r)?
http://www.cdfreaks.com/reviews/Why-DVDRW-is-superior-to-DVD-RW/
* Which program purports to combine JPG+MOV+MP3 to output DVD-Video?
http://www.nchsoftware.com/slideshow/index.html
John Corliss
> On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:57:01 -0800, John Corliss wrote:
>
>> Maybe take the output from Photo Story 3 and run it through DVDFlick:
>> http://www.dvdflick.net/
>
> I've created 4.7GB DVD-format DVDs out of home video AVIs very many times
> so I'm aptly aware of DVD Flick.
>
> DVD Flick is a wonderful program, easy to use, and easy to create
> DVD-format VOB & IFO files, all the while mixing the audio nicely (most of
> the time) and creating automatic chapters, etc.
>
> However, DVD Flick freeware is sllllllllooooooooooowwwwwwwwww on my laptop
> and sometimes creates a video which has the sound off by a second or two
> and it sometimes just hangs forever (8 hours or more). So, if I can help
> it, I have no intention of adding an extra encoding step.
Well, I don't understand why you want to limit your options that way
(adding an extra step, be it DVDFlick or anything similar), so I'll bow
out after sending this reply.
> I don't want this to sound like an indictment of DVD Flick. DVD Flick is a
> great program (I love the ease of use). I just don't want to run an
> additional decoder.
>
> I do understand DVDs rather well, for a layman, so, I do know what I'm
> talking about when I say that the Microsoft products lie when they imply
> they create DVDs. Sure, you can put ANYTHING on a DVD and call it a DVD,
> but, it won't play in your average DVD player unless what you put on that
> DVD are DVD-format files (i.e., VIDEO_TS/{*.VOB,*.IFO}.
I never meant to imply that you were not telling the truth.
Over and out.
Truth...@hope.com
<hamm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:16:52 -0600, Truth...@hope.com wrote:
>
>> I guess I should have realized this newsgroup is apparently some
>> hang-out for the rank amateur crowd that's clueless and also unwilling
>> to learn and more than obvious too damn CHEAP to buy software
>> preferring to waste their time hunting for some half-ass Mickey mouse
>> alternatives then bitching after such junk doesn't work correctly or
>> have the features they want. ;-)
>
>Hi TruthSquad,
>
>I'm sorry for some of the rants that occurred in this thread. I hope you'll
>note that I have not stooped to that level.
>
>As for the cheap freeware crowd, well, this is a freeware group :) and,
>well, some of us have the definite opinion that nobody in their right mind
>should ever buy software until they've tried and learned from the freeware
>versions first.
Let me begin by saying I'm blunt, sometimes painfully so. None the
less I DO know what I'm talking about. It is YOU that has been
cross-posting to other groups including the one I joined the
discussion: alt.video.dvd.authoring. If you only want freeware, then
why are you constantly posting to other groups? Just like an artist
can't create art without first investing in paint, brushes and canvas
the SERIOUS DVD creator won't be successful by trying to cut corners
and go the el cheapo route and limit himself to freeware. You simply
won't get good results. Period. That's the voice of experience
talking.
You can try to argue freeware is the way to learn or use other
subterfuge to attempt to deflect from you ignorance on the topic but
that's no sale with me. As I've said already, I've been down this road
already and know it's very bumpy and for 99% of the people wishing to
make quality home-brew DVD's a total waste of time to attempt to cut
corners using freeware crap that simply doesn't cut it. Most people
come to realize sooner or later that's factual or they settle for the
bland Mickey Mouse results freeware is limited to. I don't know you,
maybe good enough is good enough for your purposes. If so, so be it,
maybe you should limit your posts to freeware groups then so posters
that know better won't bother you with knowledge you're not willing to
accept just yet or waste their time trying to help you avoid common
mistakes. Some people just have to learn by repeating the mistakes of
others. Good luck with that needless punishment.
Hence why I said what I said. I've been doing this for well over a
dozen years, hopefully I learned a few things and I'm simply wishing
to share what I've experienced so others might avoid the time wasted I
myself suffered through over a decade before. If you rather not learn
and repeat the same mistakes, obviously I can't stop anyone doomed to
repeat the same exercise.
Bill Wells
> a. We can slide JPEG photos onto it and attach an MP3 song or two
> b. The program would automatically fit the pictures to the song length
> c. The result would be a photo slideshow with music that we can burn to DVD
> It's a plus if we can add MOV and MPG movies to the DVD with this program.
> Sonic MyDVD did all that but it's not freeware.
> Is there a free program download that creates a TV-playable photo/video DVD
> slideshow movie like this?
I downloaded & installed onto WinXP the suggested PhotoStage Slideshow
Producer version 1.12 on WinXP.
http://www.nchsoftware.com/slideshow/index.html
The insert slides button added the JPEG pictures with a default slide
length of 5000 milliseconds, and a default transition of Cross Fade of 2000
ms. The program allowed text overlay or audio narrations, which was an
unexpected plus.
Also the "Zoom" button was an unexpected plus, as it had a start zoom and
it slowly moved over to the finish zoom spot, which was nice. There was
also a crop & color modification and a few other things such as rotate that
I doubt I'd use.
When I imported a MOV file, it phoned home to download a plugin but
otherwise did as expected.
I then pressed the "Set sound track" button and it dubbed in an MP3 file to
play in the background while the slide show progressed.
When done with the editing, I pressed the "Build slideshow" command which
allowed me to save to the Windows XP file system, to burn directly to a
DVD, to burn to a CD, to write to a portable device, to write to a
Macintosh, to a mobile phone, and to other media ... so again, this was a
pleasant surprise. It even gave me the option of NTSC or PAL and bitrate
settings.
Saving to the Windows PC, it saved as AVI, WMV, ASF, & MPG at various
resolutions and frame rates but the best was that it wrote directly to DVD
disks.
I wish it could have saved to the DVD-Video format on the hard disk but it
burned the DVD-Video instead (which I guess skips a step for me but doesn't
allow me to create video compilations with DVDShrink like I'm used to but I
can get around that rather easily.
The good news is my very first DVD was created successfully and it played
in my DVD player on my TV (which is about five years old and doesn't play
much else other than DVD-Video format DVDs).
So, thanks for suggesting PhotoStage; I think we have a winner for the
freeware archives for creating slideshow DVDs for family events!
Ari©
> Let me begin by saying I'm blunt, sometimes painfully so.
I knew it, you're actually a butt plug.
--
Meet Ari! http://tr.im/1fa3
"To get concrete results, you have to be confrontational".
Ari©
> Hence why I said what I said. I've been doing this for well over a
> dozen years, hopefully I learned a few things and I'm simply wishing
> to share what I've experienced so others might avoid the time wasted I
> myself suffered through over a decade before. If you rather not learn
> and repeat the same mistakes, obviously I can't stop anyone doomed to
> repeat the same exercise.
Translation: "God, is there anyone else as st00pid as I am?" ~DupedSquad
Ari©
> On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:16:52 -0600, Truth...@hope.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Hint #1: The whole point of putting videos and/or slideshows on a DVD
>> is SO YOU CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF A MORE ADVANCED MENU SYSTEM. Duh!
>>
>> Hint #2: Without Chapters or things as basic as animated thumbnails or
>> being able to set your own chapter start points and not just scene
>> changes and design your own backgrounds and not be stuck with a
>> handful of cookie cutter "designs" or use alternate sound tracks all
>> you kiddies are doing is making a glorified CD that simply holds more.
>> If any of you ever want to at least try to be semi-professional, let
>> me know.
>>
>> <giggle>
>
> Hint #3: You're only using one hand to type.
>
> alvey
Hint #3a: His other hand is busy all vaselined up.
Truth...@hope.com
<hamm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>As I said in another post, my opinion is nobody should ever purchase any
>software until they've tried the "equivalent" (if it exists) freeware that
>performs a similar task.
What keeps zooming over your head is what I have now said repeatedly.
There are NO freeware equivalent software for either Video Editing or
DVD Authoring. The reason why not, which I'm again repeating is really
very simple to grasp. A "real" MPEG-2 encoder/decoder is not given
away, since no freeware author could afford the license fees. Ditto
for some of the common methods employed is making a true Chapter based
DVD and the typical "goodies" inferred, licensing fees are again
involved, hence no freeware application offers what you need.
Accordingly anyone using freeware is only fooling themselves and
perhaps breaking the law.
Perhaps the following link with make my point better.
I misspoke before, we're talking patents, not copyright. The point
being NOBODY can give you a "free" MPEG-2 encoder/decoder, they are
licensed, hence so-called freeware video editors that include a means
to convert to MPEG-2 (required to make real video DVD's or other MPEG
formats is illegal UNLESS some license fee is paid. Since it makes no
sense for any freeware author to pay a license free then turn around
and give the public software for nothing you are engaged in either
unethical or illegal behavior if you use freeware crap. Thought some
might like to know. ;-)
The reality is that are many "hacked" MPEG-2 encoders. They're garbage
and can cause untold issues and this is another reason some files
don't open or play correctly. They were encoded with "hacked"
software!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-2#Patent_holders
The "book" I spoke of in other posts:
To develop a DVD application (software or hardware based), including
DVD Authoring, one must first licence the "book" of DVD specifications
from DVD Format/Logo Licensing Corporation, a Japanese corporation. I
bet few people know that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_authoring
So in summary one reason you need commercial grade video software if
wish to make your own DVD's and hope they play correctly in the
majority of players is the creator/author has bought/read/ had access
to the "book", has had it translated from the original Japanese into
English or whatever their native language is and made a stab at what
the specs actually say. The real reason some DVD players to this day
ever from major corporations can't play some DVD's correctly in some
players. Somebody, somewhere blew the "instructions" originally in
Japanese. Another reason I use Sony's video editing software. Last
time I checked Sony was a major Japanese corporation, so no need to
translate the "book", simply read it. I'm guessing their software
engineers have. ;-)
Truth...@hope.com
<hamm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 00:51:01 -0500, tony cooper wrote:
>
>> What I don't understand is that you seem to want high quality output
>> that will work on any DVD, but you are looking to create it for free.
>
>Actually, quality isn't my objective at all.
LOL! Then you're wasting my time and the time of anyone trying to help
you. I guess you belong in the good enough is good enough crowd. I
always find it interesting that group whines the most and loudest, yet
refuses to learn or accept help from others that have already traveled
further down the path you've just started on.
This really is getting to be an amusing thread. ;-)
>
>You're the second person to say that (TruthSquad said the same). I don't
>think I once mentioned high quality as an objective. Hell, the input files
>aren't high quality to start with since they're coming off my camera, taken
>in ad-hoc fashion of a football game or a campout event or a family picnic,
>none of which has the audio or lighting for a high quality output.
>
>I guess, in all fairness, people are assuming I asked for high quality
>because I'm attempting to create DVD-Video format files; but the whole
>point of the DVD-Video files was so that my DVDs (to use Microsoft's terms)
>"could be watched in almost any standard DVD player".
You seem to enjoy word games. We're not talking HD DVD's, that's a
whole different ball of wax. I, and others simply are trying to help
you make a basic DVD that should play on most DVD players without
issue. By insisting on using only freeware crap you are throwing your
own monkey wrench into the mix and yet scream bloody murder when
things don't work out.
Truth...@hope.com
<hamm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>Plus, once you've use the freeware, if the payware is that much better as
>you say it is, then you'll greatly appreciate those "patented algorithms".
>
>Where's the harm in using freeware the first time you're authoring a
>DVD-Video DVD?
Oh I don't know... maybe because you aren't using a REAL, licensed
MPEG-2 encoder?
Hey, I'll be the first guy in line that says commercial software costs
too much and is often riddled with bugs. BUT... fair is fair.
When so-called "freeware" STEALS technology protected by patent or has
other legal protection agreed to by the majority of countries in this
world, we're only a step or two away from justifying stealing a loaf
of bread using the excuse your family was hungry which makes stealing
"alright". I could be talked into accepting "stealing" a loaf of
bread under some situations is/could be, well morally alright under
some conditions.
However "playing" around making a DVD is a fun thing, a hobby for
most, and trying to get around patents or other protection that
protects the creative process is another kettle of fish.
David Catterall
> For me, the first freeware choice of those two programs would be:
> 1. Feed JPEG + MP3 + MOV into Windows MovieMaker, then feed that to
> 2. DVD Flick -> To convert to 4.7 GB DVD-Video format, then feed that to
> 3. ImgBurn -> To burn the results to single-layer 4.7GB DVD media
Why has nobody mentioned "DVD slideshow GUI" ?
http://download.videohelp.com/tin2tin/index.html
My son found it was very good for this job.
David
Thomas Stevens
Hash: SHA256
Frank J. Camper wrote:
> I knew it, you're actually a butt plug.
> --
> Meet Ari! http://tr.im/1fa3
> "To get concrete results, you have to be confrontational".
That is from a two-bit fraud who pretends to be somebody he's not. Who
wants others to think he's successful in life, when actually he's a
complete failure.
The man in the photograph at http://tr.im/1fa3 is "Kinky" Friedman, not
"Ari", who for some reason doesn't want to be known by his real name,
which is Frank J. Camper.
He's a miscreant lecher, and should not be taken seriously at all.
- --
Meet "Kinky" Friedman, not "Ari Silverstein" (real name: Frank J. Camper):
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/uploads/1156281126/gallery_414_82_1157190589.jpg
Read the ACF FAQ here:
http://mehere.fileave.com/
My GPG Public Key can be found here:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.comp.freeware/msg/9885ea73ee4da099
Using enigmail with Thunderbird, my posts can be verified as authentic.
Download enigmail here: http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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Thomas Stevens
Hash: SHA256
Frank J. Camper wrote:
> Translation: "God, is there anyone else as st00pid as I am?"
> --
> Meet Ari! http://tr.im/1fa3
> "To get concrete results, you have to be confrontational".
That is from a two-bit fraud who pretends to be somebody he's not. Who
wants others to think he's successful in life, when actually he's a
complete failure.
The man in the photograph at http://tr.im/1fa3 is "Kinky" Friedman, not
"Ari", who for some reason doesn't want to be known by his real name,
which is Frank J. Camper.
He's a miscreant lecher, and should not be taken seriously at all.
- --
Meet "Kinky" Friedman, not "Ari Silverstein" (real name: Frank J. Camper):
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/uploads/1156281126/gallery_414_82_1157190589.jpg
Read the ACF FAQ here:
http://mehere.fileave.com/
My GPG Public Key can be found here:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.comp.freeware/msg/9885ea73ee4da099
Using enigmail with Thunderbird, my posts can be verified as authentic.
Download enigmail here: http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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Thomas Stevens
Hash: SHA256
Frank J. Camper wrote:
> Hint #3a: His other hand is busy all vaselined up.
> --
> Meet Ari! http://tr.im/1fa3
> "To get concrete results, you have to be confrontational".
That is from a two-bit fraud who pretends to be somebody he's not. Who
wants others to think he's successful in life, when actually he's a
complete failure.
The man in the photograph at http://tr.im/1fa3 is "Kinky" Friedman, not
"Ari", who for some reason doesn't want to be known by his real name,
which is Frank J. Camper.
He's a miscreant lecher, and should not be taken seriously at all.
- --
Meet "Kinky" Friedman, not "Ari Silverstein" (real name: Frank J. Camper):
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/uploads/1156281126/gallery_414_82_1157190589.jpg
Read the ACF FAQ here:
http://mehere.fileave.com/
My GPG Public Key can be found here:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.comp.freeware/msg/9885ea73ee4da099
Using enigmail with Thunderbird, my posts can be verified as authentic.
Download enigmail here: http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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Truth...@hope.com
DVD slideshow GUI AND all so-called freeware applications IF they
provide any means to encode to MPEG-2 violate the MPEG (Moving
Pictures Expert Group) legal rights in part under Patent #6310962 see
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6310962/description.html since they
(MPEG) developed the encoding/decoding algorithms that makes coding to
MPEG-2 possible. This applies across the board regardless if we're
talking about software based encoders/decoders part of authoring
software or hardware based as found in DVD players. They (MPEG) happen
to be very strict with licensing the MPEG-2 standard because they were
careless with protecting the license and patents developed around
MPEG-1 common to CD's before DVD's came on the scene.
So if you're using any non licensed MPEG-2 encoder/decoder, ie some
hack, or forgery, all any freeware author will give you, technically
you are breaking international law and obviously so it the freeware
author.
That said rights to use the encoding scheme can be licensed under
various sub license agreements for various fees depending on how the
technology is used:
http://www.mpegla.com/m2/m2-agreement.cfm
I was curious how freeware authors attempt to get around this legal
blockade. The FAQ for FFMPEG (what DVD Flick is based on) (more
freeware crap) typical, states in part:
Q: "Does FFmpeg use patented algorithms?
A: We do not know, we are not lawyers so we are not qualified to
answer this. What a crock!
Well duh... of COURSE it violates several patents held by several
corporations and the MPEG Group which is sanctioned by ISO/IEC under
13818-1 Information Technology - Generic Coding of Moving Pictures and
Associated Audio Information.
For those that don't know the ISO (International Organization for
Standardization) is the world wide governing body that sets standards
for just about everything there is in the technical world, everything
from spacing on screw threads to oops... encoding schemes used on
DVD's.
http://www.iso.org/iso/home.htm
Freeware authors attempt to hide behind their own license agreement
which is just a red-herring and not related to the matter at hand, the
popular open source license agreement which much "freeware" software
is distributed freely under. This can not and does not override patent
laws established and accepted world-wide that relates to the
underlying technology BEHIND the algorithms used to develop
software/hardware. So the bottom line is if the software you use to
generate MPEG-2 isn't licensed by the MPEG group (all commercial
products do license and pay small fees to grand said license to end
users to use it, which no freeware does, now you know the whole story.
miskairal
about to throw my pc out the window. After suggesting PhotoStage I
thought it was about time I tried it out myself and made sure it did a
good job as it's not the first time I've mentioned it here.
Well I made what I thought was a wonderful slide show with maybe 140
slides and an MP3 background (3 MP3s joined together using WavePad from
the same author). I tried burning it to DVD but on my pc the DVD would
only play the first 10 slides and in my TV's DVD it wasn't recognised at
all. I rebooted and tried again with the disc stopping in exactly the
same place.
I then went to the forum and found one solution that said to save it to
your pc first - tried that and it took over half an hour to save 1
minute of an 11 minute show. Gave up in disgust and thought I better get
back here and let you know that it might not be what you are after and
lo and behold it worked for you :)
I suspect I might need a more powerful pc as I only have a 2.0GHz
Celeron and 512MB of RAM. WinXP Home SP3. Can you tell me your computer
specs just out of interest - to give me an idea of where the problem lies?
Cheers
David Catterall
> DVD slideshow GUI AND all so-called freeware applications IF they
> provide any means to encode to MPEG-2 violate the MPEG (Moving
> Pictures Expert Group) legal rights in part under Patent #6310962
Well, that's *one* answer to the question 'Why has nobody mentioned
"DVD slideshow GUI" ? '
But since no Law has any meaning unless it be enforceable, I'm
afraid you're a little late at the starting gate .... !
I was looking for a software/hardware answer to the question, of
course.
Good luck,
>David
Truth...@hope.com
wrote:
This illustrates why I wouldn't touch freeware crap with a ten foot
pole. As I've said in another post in this thread I've successfully
burned in excess of a 1,000 DVD's. Aside from a bad media issue which
pops up now and then which is unavoidable and due to manufacturing
error in the blank media itself all play all the time, all the way
through on all four of my DVD players.
Rendering time or how long it takes to makes MPEG-2 source files, then
burn image files and finally "burning" the DVD itself is a time
consuming process. As a yardstick, a typical project for me is five to
eight vids on a single sided DVD most running about 98% full so a
solid 4.6 GB or so of data or a play time of between 120-130 minutes.
The process typically takes between 1-3 minutes rendering time per
minute of video to create the MPEG-2 files (after all editing
done),maybe 20-30 minutes DVD Authoring time depending on how fancy I
want to get in the design and layout, about 20-30 minutes to make the
image files and roughly 12-15 minutes of actual "burn" time to write
the files to a DVD using a DVD burner running at 12X speed. My PC is
showing it's age and only 2.4GHZ with overclocking, so not running a
speed demon.
tony cooper
>This illustrates why I wouldn't touch freeware crap with a ten foot
>pole. As I've said in another post in this thread I've successfully
>burned in excess of a 1,000 DVD's.
Surely, though, you see that it's horses for courses. I make movies
and slideshows in MovieMaker and Picture Story, burn them in Nero, and
play them on a DVD player and send DVDs to relatives. They're family
movies of the grandchildren. Not exactly Sundance material.
It would be foolish of me to spend a lot of money on software and
equipment to do what I do. That freeware crap works just fine for my
intended purpose.
I'm an amateur photographer but I have a decent dslr and use the full
version of Photoshop. Both are probably overkill for my talents.
However, I enjoy working with both. I have no interest in expanding
into professional or semi-professional movie making, though.
Freeware, shareware, and off-the-shelf basic software has its place.
As long as the user doesn't have greater expectations than the
software is capable of, it's not "crap". The pro stuff isn't going to
produce better output if the camera work is kiddy snaps and the usual
home movie fare. I tart up my movies with title slides done in
Photoshop, but that's as far as I'm interested in going.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Bill Wells
> http://download.videohelp.com/tin2tin/index.html
I'll try DVD GUI out.
While Photo Slideshow Creator created a working DVD on the first try, it
bombed out multiple times when I tried to add MOV files to the mix.
Maybe DVD Gui will be a bit more stable for creating DVD-Video format files
out of JPEGs + MP3 audio + MOV video files.
Also, one advantage DVD GUI might have over PhotoSlideShowCreator, based on
the features page:
http://download.videohelp.com/tin2tin/features.html
is that DVD GUI can write DVD folders whereas Photo SlideShow Creator can
only burn DVD folders (apparently).
Thanks.
Bill Wells
>>Why has nobody mentioned "DVD slideshow GUI" ?
>>http://download.videohelp.com/tin2tin/index.html
>
> I found it hard to use. And it doesn't burn to DVD, which the OP
> wanted.
Actually I'm fine if DVD SlideShow GUI doesn't 'burn' to DVD media (because
ImgBurn will burn to DVD media) but I did want it to WRITE to the file
system DVD-Video format files (i.e., VIDEO_TS, etc.) so that I didn't have
to run DVD Flick to perform the same task.
Normally I stop looking when I find usable freeware but Photo Slideshow
Creator crapped out when I put a few MOV movies into the mix so it's not as
stable as I would have liked.
I'll check out DVD Slideshow GUI to see if it works better to create
DVD-Vido format files on my hard disk.
Bill Wells
> I suspect I might need a more powerful pc as I only have a 2.0GHz
> Celeron and 512MB of RAM. WinXP Home SP3. Can you tell me your computer
> specs just out of interest - to give me an idea of where the problem lies?
Actually, my first DVD was a simple compilation and I was shocked myself it
worked.
But, unfortunately, PhotoStage Slideshow Producer version 1.12 on WinXP
isn't as great as I was hoping it would be (I'll bet TruthSquad is smiling
now! :) ... I mean that in a good way).
My next two or three attempts at creating a DVD with PhotoStage Slide Show
Producer failed for some reason or another. The videos locked up mid
stream. And the program hung.
So, I'd say it's buggy software. It works but it's not really very stable.
I'm using an IBM Thinkpad PC.
The good news is someone suggested another program for creating DVD-Video
out of MP3s, JPGs, and MOV files so I'll test that out too.
miskairal
Would you mind mentioning which one that is here as I don't think I can
read through all the garbage replies in this thread to find it. I've
read many and have just reread many now but can't find what you might be
referring to.
My apologies for steering you wrong with Photostage :(
David Catterall
> Surely, though, you see that it's horses for courses. I make movies
> and slideshows in MovieMaker and Picture Story, burn them in Nero, and
> play them on a DVD player and send DVDs to relatives. They're family
> movies of the grandchildren. Not exactly Sundance material.
>
> It would be foolish of me to spend a lot of money on software and
> equipment to do what I do. That freeware crap works just fine for my
> intended purpose.
Tony,
I think you've hit the nail on the head; I'm in your League too!
If we were trying to make money then I'd agree with Truthsquad that
the hard-working guys at the MPEG are entitled to their slice.
Cheers,
>David
Truth...@hope.com
<hamm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 19:34:08 +0000, David Catterall wrote:
>
>> http://download.videohelp.com/tin2tin/index.html
>
>I'll try DVD GUI out.
>
>While Photo Slideshow Creator created a working DVD on the first try, it
>bombed out multiple times when I tried to add MOV files to the mix.
MOV was developed by Apple and one reason you are likely having
problems is you either don't have their Quick Time player on your
system or it isn't installed correctly or Photo slideshow Creator or
something else you're using isn't smart enough to find/link to the
required codec.
Since Quick Time is a free offering from Apple, you might wish to
install it and see if that resolves this annoyance. The technical
reason again boils down to licensing. Apple like Microsoft is playing
hard ball. There no longer allow small vendors to use their codecs,
necessary to open proprietary file types they developed. This is a
pigged headed move, but that's another issue. Microsoft drew a line in
the sand for their ASF and WMV file formats.
As I already suggested installing Apple's Quick Time normally gets you
around the problem for MOV files. Microsoft does the same thing with
their older and no longer supported ASF file type. Where in the past
many freeware applications like VirtualDub could open ASF file,
Microsoft threatened them with legal action so they no longer support
it.
Other file types might not be what they claim. Another common issue is
AVI, while it can be a true file type in it's native uncompressed
format and other variants is also can only serve as a "wrapper" with
some other true file type, typically DivX inside. Some applications
(typically freeware crap) are too dumb to read the file header which
should be coded correctly and thus might fail to open. Even dumber
than that many DivX files have the file's header miscoded by simply
not using the expected proper syntax.
Even my beloved Sony's Vegas stumbles on this one. A free utility that
can come in handy is something called AVIC. It's only purpose is to
read/write to a AVI file header so you can see if some dummy put the
wrong syntax in for DivX files. Simply changing the header to the
correct "DIVX" from "divx" or "Divx" making it the expected all caps
resolves many video applications saying they are unable to play some
DivX files.
Truth...@hope.com
Well Bill, (my real name too) I'm smiling because I see you running
into the same kind of issues I had over a dozen years ago and you're
still resistant to BUY a single application for a small fee that puts
most of the problems behind you rather than wasting your time fiddling
around with all kinds of freeware junk needing a half a dozen or more
applications rather than BUYING one that does it all correctly the
first time and every time after that.
Sorry, but your still behind the eight ball investing most of your
time fooling around with Mickey Mouse level applications trying to get
them to work rather than investing your time in learning how to make
better videos. ;-)
What you're suffering now is the equlivant of slow Chinese water
torture. You seem to enjoy spending hours trying to get some small
project to work, get it to work with blind luck maybe once, then the
next project failing sending you back to square one.
Yes, I'm smiling, hoping you throw in the towel for your own good.
Making DVD's is frustrating enough without having to fight with the
software constantly.
Truth...@hope.com
You're missing my point. Removing the license issue, its the QUALITY
of freeware or more correctly the LACK of it that causes most issues
when it comes to video editing and related DVD video creation.
I'm not against freeware. GIMP, available for years as a port to
Windows originally started as a LINUX project. It rivals Photoshop and
in some areas is better. VirtualDub, a basic video tool developed by
some smart college kid over twenty years ago has achieved a cult
following and has many good plug-in filters, but it can be geeky to
use and limited and severs best as a tool to fix broken files, rather
than being your mainline video platform.
Free Video editing and DVD creating software as a class of software
has ALWAYS suffered in quality and often in clumsiness and continues
too BECAUSE they either offer some hacked codec package to avoid
license issues or stumble on common file types leaving the user
wanting to pull his hair out.
Even Microsoft that has money to burn, blew it big time in their Movie
Maker offering. It's a world class bow-wow of an application filled to
overflowing with poor coding choices and bugs and at best is
problematic in performance.
I keep asking WHY torture yourself putting up with crap? I'm not
talking about taking out a second mortgage to get video editing
software. You can get really good packages for under $60 that once you
give them a chance you'll kick yourself for not doing it sooner rather
than putting up with constant failures the freeware collection offers.
tony cooper
>Even Microsoft that has money to burn, blew it big time in their Movie
>Maker offering. It's a world class bow-wow of an application filled to
>overflowing with poor coding choices and bugs and at best is
>problematic in performance.
I've read about problems with MovieMaker, but I have to say that I've
never had one. Perhaps your expectations are higher than mine. I put
together about one movie a month and burn it to DVD for distribution
to family. One goes to relatives in Europe, and the DVDs play just
fine on their equipment.
Never had a glitch. I add titles (jpgs made in Photoshop and
imported) and do quite a bit of editing to the raw footage. Maybe I'm
just lucky, but there it is. Any faults in the movie are strictly the
faults of the cameraman.
I don't add sound or narration, but that's because I really don't like
sound on this type of movie. Narration is replaced by titles with
written text.
I tried Pinnacle's Studio 10 program and found it complicated and
unworkable. MovieMaker is dead-simple to use.
>I keep asking WHY torture yourself putting up with crap?
If it works, I'll use it. I've experienced no torture.
Sam Jones
Sweetie, don't be a damsel in distress.
Do it yourself.
Trues...@hope.com
Corporate software is no more of a guarantee of it working properly than
freeware. Freeware authors are generally quicker to fix problems, taking
pride in their work. As long as the corporation is raking in the dough they
don't have to fix a damn thing unless it is cutting into their sales. See:
Corel. Then others not realizing that that corporate crap is still broken
just blindly buy the POS software.
Quick example, Nero Recode goes belly-up on many files. You can find
thousands of hits on that problem for years and Nero Inc. refuses, or just
ignores, fixing it.
I'd try to name the other nearly dozen or so video and DVD authoring
programs that also went belly-up at one point or another for me, but I've
since deleted all your corporate crap from my computer.
Get your head out of your ass. Nobody can see you smile while it's there.
Truth...@hope.com
Every newsgroup has it's share of assholes. Thanks for stepping
forward and showing it's you in this one.
Jerry
<Truth...@hope.com> wrote in message
news:hsfvn45l6dks9mnef...@4ax.com...
<snip>
>
> Every newsgroup has it's share of assholes. Thanks for stepping
> forward and showing it's you in this one.
Stop talking about yourself!
--
"You obviously couldn't get a clue if you rolled in clue
musk and performed the clue mating dance in the middle
of a field full of horny clues at the height of the
clue mating season!"
Bill Wells
> Another reason I use Sony's video editing software. Last
> time I checked Sony was a major Japanese corporation, so no need to
> translate the "book", simply read it. I'm guessing their software
> engineers have. ;-)
Hi Truth,
Indeed, Sony MyDVD works wonders ... and it's what I was comparing the
programs to by way of functionality. Thanks for all the wonderful
information. You sure know your stuff so I appreciate the time and effort
to edify us.
Bill Wells
> MOV was developed by Apple and one reason you are likely having
> problems is you either don't have their Quick Time player
Hi Truth,
That might be the problem. I use the quicktimealternative.exe program and I
don't install quicktime at all. Whenever I install iTunes, it misbehaves
and I have to blow away quicktime. So that might be the problem because
it's such a badly behaved program that I remove it whenever Apple shoves it
on my PC.
Maybe I should just bite the bloate bullet and allow quicktime to install
wherever it wants to ('cuz it sure doesn't install where it belongs).
Bill Wells
> Where in the past
> many freeware applications like VirtualDub could open ASF file,
> Microsoft threatened them with legal action so they no longer support
> it.
Hi Truth,
That's very interesting because I use the k-lite codec pack freeware which
has codecs for nearly everything, including, I believe ASF.
Also, I use Super freeware to convert from virtually any video format to
virtually any other video format including ASF.
I wonder how they get their codecs.
Bill Wells
> I tried Pinnacle's Studio 10 program and found it complicated and
> unworkable. MovieMaker is dead-simple to use.
Long ago, a friend gave me his CDROM of Pinnacle Studio 9 because he had
the latest version so didn't need version 9 anymore.
I had really liked the way Pinnacle studio broke down the incoming movie
into chapters, it was wonderful ... it made a beautiful storyboard.
But, that's about all the good I can say about Pinnacle Studio's program as
I too found it cumbersome and time consuming to use. He also gave me a copy
of something I remember as "ULead", but he said to use the Pinnacle first.
I can dig these CDROMs up if I can find them. Do you think they are worth
the energy to dig up and use to make home DVDs out of photographs and MOV
files?
(I don't remember Pinnacle Studio doing MP3s multiplexed over JPEGs as a
slideshow but maybe it did.)
Bill Wells
> What you're suffering now is the equlivant of slow Chinese water
> torture.
Hi Bill,
Yes, I am (slowly) coming to the realization that the two freeware
applications do the job, but, they're not very stable.
So far, I've got only three good DVDs and about 6 coasters. It got to the
point where I have to actually watch the output to make sure it doesn't
hang half way which I didn't find out until I played it.
Still, I'm a firm believer in freeware. I still feel, if you have the time
and inclination, that you should never buy software until you've tried the
freeware alternatives.
Once you've used the freeware alternatives, one of three things happen:
1. You love the freeware and don't ever buy the payware ... or ...
2. You hate the freeware and opt to buy the payware ... or ...
3. You like the freeware but now you know what you need and you make sure
the payware delivers what you need before you buy the payware so you get
exactly what you want.
Jerry
"Bill Wells" <hamm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:gOvgl.9729$8_3....@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com...
<snip>
:
: Maybe I should just bite the bloate bullet and allow quicktime to
: wherever it wants to ('cuz it sure doesn't install where it
belongs).
AIUI "Quicktime Alternative" and "Quicktime" can't co-exist on the
same system/OS.
--
Wikipedia: the Internet equivalent of
Hyde Park and 'speakers corner'...
Sorry, mail to this address goes unread.
Please reply via group.
Jerry
<Truth...@hope.com> wrote in message
news:fqhrn4d3rijf7cot1...@4ax.com...
<snip most of your utter clap-trap>
: The reason why not, which I'm again repeating is really
: very simple to grasp. A "real" MPEG-2 encoder/decoder is not given
: away,
And is a 'real' MPEG-2 encoder/decoder, or any codec for that
matter?... I'll tell you, a mathematical algorithm, if that same
encoding/decoding results can be obtained via a different algorithm
then it does the same job whilst _NOT_ infringing any property right.
It's you who doesn't understand, MPEG-2 codecs are just like MPEG-4 in
this respect and well demonstrated by the *different* Dvix and Xvid
codecs.
Please feel free to f*ck off and find a clue...
Truth...@hope.com
<mapson...@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote:
>
><Truth...@hope.com> wrote in message
>news:fqhrn4d3rijf7cot1...@4ax.com...
>
><snip most of your utter clap-trap>
>: The reason why not, which I'm again repeating is really
>: very simple to grasp. A "real" MPEG-2 encoder/decoder is not given
>: away,
>
>And is a 'real' MPEG-2 encoder/decoder, or any codec for that
>matter?... I'll tell you, a mathematical algorithm, if that same
>encoding/decoding results can be obtained via a different algorithm
>then it does the same job whilst _NOT_ infringing any property right.
>
>It's you who doesn't understand, MPEG-2 codecs are just like MPEG-4 in
>this respect and well demonstrated by the *different* Dvix and Xvid
>codecs.
>Please feel free to f*ck off and find a clue...
I understand you are just another ignorant ass, one of many buffoon
type creatures that infest newsgroups such as this pretending they
know what they're talking about, yet prove beyond doubt they are
clueless idiots and babbling morons.
Write the following down so you don't come across as a total idiot in
the future. Mathematical algorithms can and HAVE received patent
protection under international law. That is a FACT for MPEG-2, the
accepted norm for DVD encoding. I would offer some more technical
references, however doing so would be far beyond your puny brain's
capacity to comprehend.
For your further education neither Dvix or Xvid are the same as the
MPEG-2 coding scheme necessary for producing a compliant DVD, the
primary topic being discussed regardless how much some hot-headed
ignoramonus attempts to sidetrack or hijack the issue or attempts to
justify STEALING intellectual property.
So your feeble attempts to distort,misrepresent and go off in another
direction is duly noted and resulted in confirming your obvious
ignorance.
Let me make is simpler for the idiot crowd. If you are not using a
LICENSED MPEG-2 encoder to create a MPEG-2 compliant DVD, you are
stealing, just as if your would steal something off a shelf, or make
illegal copies of a DVD, etc..
As long as you understand what you are and what you're doing. ;-)
John Corliss
>>Please feel free to f*ck off and find a clue...
>
> I understand you are just another ignorant ass, one of many buffoon
> type creatures that infest newsgroups such as this pretending they
> know what they're talking about, yet prove beyond doubt they are
> clueless idiots and babbling morons.
With all seriousness, I just want you to know that anybody who says
something like that to me would be in line for retribution with extreme
prejudice and without the slightest hesitation. I don't stop until I get
what I want when I'm motivated to be on the trail of anybody who stalks
me.
You see - I have, in reserve, my own tactics for getting back at people,
and many connections with people who will do things for me (and I for
them.)
<snipped alt.comp.freeware>
Jerry
<Truth...@hope.com> wrote in message
news:fj86o41h031um1p35...@4ax.com...
: On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:41:41 -0000, "Jerry"
: <mapson...@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote:
:
: >
: ><Truth...@hope.com> wrote in message
: >news:fqhrn4d3rijf7cot1...@4ax.com...
: >
: ><snip most of your utter clap-trap>
: >: The reason why not, which I'm again repeating is really
: >: very simple to grasp. A "real" MPEG-2 encoder/decoder is not
given
: >: away,
: >
: >And is a 'real' MPEG-2 encoder/decoder, or any codec for that
: >matter?... I'll tell you, a mathematical algorithm, if that same
: >encoding/decoding results can be obtained via a different
algorithm
: >then it does the same job whilst _NOT_ infringing any property
right.
: >
: >It's you who doesn't understand, MPEG-2 codecs are just like MPEG-4
in
: >this respect and well demonstrated by the *different* Dvix and Xvid
: >codecs.
:
: >Please feel free to f*ck off and find a clue...
:
: I understand you are just another ignorant ass, one of many buffoon
: type creatures that infest newsgroups such as this pretending they
: know what they're talking about, yet prove beyond doubt they are
: clueless idiots and babbling morons.
Stop talking about yourself, Buffoon...
If you are correct the owners of the Dvix intellectual property rights
would have shutdown the Xdiv freeware project - they have not because
they can not.
The fact is, one can't protect the *results* of a algorithm, just the
specific algorithm.
Having just looked up the "hope.com" domain I can now see why you are
so keen to mouth off against freeware, vestige interests and all
that - can't have people using free software can we now, it will put
us all out of business...
Jerry
<Truth...@hope.com> wrote in message
news:fj86o41h031um1p35...@4ax.com...
: On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:41:41 -0000, "Jerry"
: <mapson...@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote:
:
: >
: ><Truth...@hope.com> wrote in message
: >news:fqhrn4d3rijf7cot1...@4ax.com...
: >
: ><snip most of your utter clap-trap>
: >: The reason why not, which I'm again repeating is really
: >: very simple to grasp. A "real" MPEG-2 encoder/decoder is not
given
: >: away,
: >
: >And is a 'real' MPEG-2 encoder/decoder, or any codec for that
: >matter?... I'll tell you, a mathematical algorithm, if that same
: >encoding/decoding results can be obtained via a different
algorithm
: >then it does the same job whilst _NOT_ infringing any property
right.
: >
: >It's you who doesn't understand, MPEG-2 codecs are just like MPEG-4
in
: >this respect and well demonstrated by the *different* Dvix and Xvid
: >codecs.
:
: >Please feel free to f*ck off and find a clue...
:
: I understand you are just another ignorant ass, one of many buffoon
: type creatures that infest newsgroups such as this pretending they
: know what they're talking about, yet prove beyond doubt they are
: clueless idiots and babbling morons.
Jerry
<Truth...@hope.com> wrote in message
news:fj86o41h031um1p35...@4ax.com...
: On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:41:41 -0000, "Jerry"
: <mapson...@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote:
:
: >
: ><Truth...@hope.com> wrote in message
: >news:fqhrn4d3rijf7cot1...@4ax.com...
: >
: ><snip most of your utter clap-trap>
: >: The reason why not, which I'm again repeating is really
: >: very simple to grasp. A "real" MPEG-2 encoder/decoder is not
given
: >: away,
: >
: >And is a 'real' MPEG-2 encoder/decoder, or any codec for that
: >matter?... I'll tell you, a mathematical algorithm, if that same
: >encoding/decoding results can be obtained via a different
algorithm
: >then it does the same job whilst _NOT_ infringing any property
right.
: >
: >It's you who doesn't understand, MPEG-2 codecs are just like MPEG-4
in
: >this respect and well demonstrated by the *different* Dvix and Xvid
: >codecs.
:
: >Please feel free to f*ck off and find a clue...
:
: I understand you are just another ignorant ass, one of many buffoon
: type creatures that infest newsgroups such as this pretending they
: know what they're talking about, yet prove beyond doubt they are
: clueless idiots and babbling morons.
Jerry
<Truth...@hope.com> wrote in message
news:fj86o41h031um1p35...@4ax.com...
: On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:41:41 -0000, "Jerry"
: <mapson...@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote:
:
: >
: ><Truth...@hope.com> wrote in message
: >news:fqhrn4d3rijf7cot1...@4ax.com...
: >
: ><snip most of your utter clap-trap>
: >: The reason why not, which I'm again repeating is really
: >: very simple to grasp. A "real" MPEG-2 encoder/decoder is not
given
: >: away,
: >
: >And is a 'real' MPEG-2 encoder/decoder, or any codec for that
: >matter?... I'll tell you, a mathematical algorithm, if that same
: >encoding/decoding results can be obtained via a different
algorithm
: >then it does the same job whilst _NOT_ infringing any property
right.
: >
: >It's you who doesn't understand, MPEG-2 codecs are just like MPEG-4
in
: >this respect and well demonstrated by the *different* Dvix and Xvid
: >codecs.
:
: >Please feel free to f*ck off and find a clue...
:
: I understand you are just another ignorant ass, one of many buffoon
: type creatures that infest newsgroups such as this pretending they
: know what they're talking about, yet prove beyond doubt they are
: clueless idiots and babbling morons.
Jerry
"Jerry" <mapson...@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote in message
news:glvm6i$hra$1...@news.motzarella.org...
:
<snip>
Sorry for the multiple posts, server still faulty, causing errors.
Truth...@hope.com
<mapson...@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote:
>Stop talking about yourself, Buffoon...
That self-serving bullshit from the idiot that REPEATED the same post
THREE TIMES within the space of a minute.
ROFLMAO!
You give new meaning to the word stupid. You're in a league of one.
Jerry
<Truth...@hope.com> wrote in message
news:qep6o4la65sbmh6no...@4ax.com...
<snip>
:
: ROFLMAO!
:
Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing, at your attempted trolling - I see
that you have no answer for the facts that have been placed before
you - just face it, you are the typical Usenet w*nker, all hot air and
no facts...
You carry on trolling me (and others), the rest of us will carry on
with the discussion in hand, the only person starting to look like a
"Buffoon" is you...
: You give new meaning to the word stupid. You're in a league of one.
Talking about yourself again...
Truth...@hope.com
<mapson...@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote:
>
><Truth...@hope.com> wrote in message
>news:qep6o4la65sbmh6no...@4ax.com...
><snip>
>:
>: ROFLMAO!
>:
>
>Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing, at your attempted trolling - I see
>that you have no answer for the facts that have been placed before
>you - just face it, you are the typical Usenet w*nker, all hot air and
>no facts...
What fact? The one you're a blowhard? You don't even know how to post
to a newsgroup. Three posts of the SAME article within a minute, then
you try to blame the server instead of admitting you got pissed-off
and kept pressing the send button. I've been chewing up and spitting
out clowns like you for about 30 years on Usenet. Take a hike. Loser.