square negs
eugene
a flatbed scanner, should the shiny neg surface be up or down?
--
And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make
sligoNo...@hotmail.com
>A friend has asked me to get some prints from negs that are 30 years old. On
>a flatbed scanner, should the shiny neg surface be up or down?
It will depend on the scanner, likely the matt side down. How
about just trying one negative each way and see which works best with
those negatives and your equipment?
eugene
<sligoNo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rd74t4poosrvb1g7c...@4ax.com...
It will work either way but I want to be sure the prints aren't reversed. My
friend might not even notice anyway. I get this problem every couple of
years or so and I can never remember which side faces down (I think it is
the shiny side)
nospam
<eug...@home.com> wrote:
> It will work either way but I want to be sure the prints aren't reversed.
it's trivial to reverse it afterwards.
eugene
"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:310320090659362777%nos...@nospam.invalid...
It might very well be but these negs are thirty years old and I won't
recognise the nine year old child in them (who is now deceased and the
reason this friend wants the prints)
nospam
<eug...@home.com> wrote:
> >> It will work either way but I want to be sure the prints aren't reversed.
> >
> > it's trivial to reverse it afterwards.
>
> It might very well be but these negs are thirty years old and I won't
> recognise the nine year old child in them (who is now deceased and the
> reason this friend wants the prints)
you only need to find one negative with text or some other item that
will be obvious when reversed.
GregS
All you have to do is find look at negative and find true order.
Does anybody have a negative from a film camera ???
GregS
I just looked and if you view from the coating side, its reversed.
greg
PDM
"eugene" <eug...@home.com> wrote in message
news:We6dnWPmBoGdh0_U...@bt.com...
Depends on scanner. Some Epson scanners like the shiny side down. The
scannin software reverses the image after scanning (it does this on my Epson
3200). Try both ways and see if there is any difference in quality
(sharpness etc) then use whichever is best.
To tell which way round the image is supposed to be just look at the neg
with the shiny side facing towards you. So if the scanned image is reversed
you know that you have to change it back in Photoshop.
PDM
ray
> A friend has asked me to get some prints from negs that are 30 years
> old. On a flatbed scanner, should the shiny neg surface be up or down?
I'd suggest you look for one negative of the batch that has something
that would give you a clue - perhaps a sign or an auto license plate.
Scan that one and see if it need to be reversed or not.
Jürgen Exner
I wonder if that is really the problem.
I would guess the scanner will give better results one way than the
other. Scan that way and then in a second step determine if the pictures
are flipped or not and if they are flipped, then just batch-process them
and flip them back right-side up with your favourite image processing
software.
jue
George Kerby
On 3/31/09 8:26 AM, in article We6dnWPmBoGdh0_U...@bt.com,
"eugene" <eug...@home.com> wrote:
> A friend has asked me to get some prints from negs that are 30 years old. On
> a flatbed scanner, should the shiny neg surface be up or down?
Get a clear piece of plastic, cellophane, etc and write on it with a
permanent marker. Place it in the scanner and see what happens with the
written side down vs. written side up. There is your answer.
No. Thank YOU!
ray
Very likely that will be the same way the provides the correct
orientation.
sligoNo...@hotmail.com
Scan one each way and print out both the same size. Print
them big and then judge them side by side for quality.
You can mirror them in the computer later to get the proper
left to right perspective. Start by getting the best scan.
I have seen some scanners do best one way and other to do best
the other.
eugene
"George Kerby" <ghost_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:C5F7BE9C.26206%ghost_...@hotmail.com...
Thanks everybody. It was shiny side down and there were small digits on the
edge of the neg strip which confirmed this.
George Kerby
On 3/31/09 6:31 PM, in article dcCdnWkM-OJMOk_U...@bt.com,
"eugene" <eug...@home.com> wrote:
Why didn't I think of that?!?
DUH!!!!
Stormin Mormon
direction:
.thgir tuo emoc srettel eht sekaM
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"eugene" <eug...@home.com> wrote in message
news:We6dnWPmBoGdh0_U...@bt.com...
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"George Kerby" <ghost_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:C5F7BE9C.26206%ghost_...@hotmail.com...
Stormin Mormon
the pictures?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"eugene" <eug...@home.com> wrote in message
news:dcCdnWkM-OJMOk_U...@bt.com...
Bob Larter
> A friend has asked me to get some prints from negs that are 30 years
> old. On a flatbed scanner, should the shiny neg surface be up or down?
Down.
--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Larter
> "eugene" <eug...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:We6dnWPmBoGdh0_U...@bt.com...
>> A friend has asked me to get some prints from negs that are 30 years old.
>> On a flatbed scanner, should the shiny neg surface be up or down?
> Depends on scanner. Some Epson scanners like the shiny side down. The
> scannin software reverses the image after scanning (it does this on my Epson
> 3200). Try both ways and see if there is any difference in quality
> (sharpness etc) then use whichever is best.
You want shiny side down, so that the emulsion is touching the white
cover sheet in the lid, otherwise you'll get internal reflections in the
film, causing blurring.
Bob AZ
> It might very well be but these negs are thirty years old and I won't
> recognise the nine year old child in them (who is now deceased and the
> reason this friend wants the prints)
Eugene
Scan enough of the film/negs to pick up some edge markings. This
should be a good way to insure either matt or shiny side up or down.
Bob AZ
PDM
"Bob Larter" <bobby...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:49d2f702$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> PDM wrote:
>> "eugene" <eug...@home.com> wrote in message
>> news:We6dnWPmBoGdh0_U...@bt.com...
>>> A friend has asked me to get some prints from negs that are 30 years
>>> old. On a flatbed scanner, should the shiny neg surface be up or down?
>
>> Depends on scanner. Some Epson scanners like the shiny side down. The
>> scannin software reverses the image after scanning (it does this on my
>> Epson 3200). Try both ways and see if there is any difference in quality
>> (sharpness etc) then use whichever is best.
>
> You want shiny side down, so that the emulsion is touching the white cover
> sheet in the lid, otherwise you'll get internal reflections in the film,
> causing blurring.
>
>
moving lightsource in the scanner shines on the film. This doesn't touch the
film either, there is a considerable gap. This is the same on every flatbed
scanner designed for scanning film.
Also note that while Epson say (on some models at least) to put film
imulsion side up, other makers tell you to put the imulsion side down.
PDM
whisky-dave
>On a flatbed scanner, should the shiny neg surface be up or down?
Don't any of the negs have text in them, not even a car reg. number......
Most film had frame numbers too.
Even if it's wrong in most software you can flip the images later.
George Kerby
On 3/31/09 8:11 PM, in article gquf3l$ujm$1...@news.motzarella.org, "Stormin
Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ah, but that won't help when you are scanning negatives.
You really need to keep up, ya know?
George Kerby
On 3/31/09 8:12 PM, in article gquf3m$ujm$2...@news.motzarella.org, "Stormin
Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Were the small digits oriented the same way as the image in
> the pictures?
Never seen a negative have ye?!?
Contact proofs?
Ahh, these digital age photographers...
George Kerby
David J. Littleboy
Sheesh, give the guy a break; he got it right the first time.
And he knows how to use a film scanner.
--
David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
PDM
"David J. Littleboy" <dav...@gol.com> wrote in message
news:QqGdnbSmw7nzHE7U...@giganews.com...
actually contribute much. And yes you are right about me knowing how to
scan. I teach it occasionally too. I learned a lot about scanning from Wayne
Fulton's superb site: www.scantips.com. And have continued to pass on the
knowledge gained to others at my local college.
Regards,
PDM
GregS
I think I used the term coating. Nothing wrong with that. I have played around with
scanners, but at least in the old days, you want the emulsion away from the light source
so you get the clearest image. That should also be true of a scanner using a
transparency adaptor.
greg
GregS
>In article <C5F8E975.262ED%ghost_...@hotmail.com>, George Kerby
> <ghost_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>On 4/1/09 7:58 AM, in article 49d36...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com,
>>"PDM" <pdcm99[deletethisbit]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Bob Larter" <bobby...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:49d2f702$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>>>> PDM wrote:
>>>>> "eugene" <eug...@home.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:We6dnWPmBoGdh0_U...@bt.com...
>>>>>> A friend has asked me to get some prints from negs that are 30 years
>>>>>> old. On a flatbed scanner, should the shiny neg surface be up or down?
>>>>
>>>>> Depends on scanner. Some Epson scanners like the shiny side down. The
>>>>> scannin software reverses the image after scanning (it does this on my
>>>>> Epson 3200). Try both ways and see if there is any difference in quality
>>>>> (sharpness etc) then use whichever is best.
>>>>
>>>> You want shiny side down, so that the emulsion is touching the white cover
>>>> sheet in the lid, otherwise you'll get internal reflections in the film,
>>>> causing blurring.
>
>
>I think I used the term coating. Nothing wrong with that. I have played around
> with
>scanners, but at least in the old days, you want the emulsion away from the
> light source
>so you get the clearest image. That should also be true of a scanner using a
>transparency adaptor.
>
I might have that backwards. Its been so loooong.
>
George Kerby
On 4/1/09 9:59 AM, in article QqGdnbSmw7nzHE7U...@giganews.com,
You say 'potato', and I say 'potatoe'...
eugene
"whisky-dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
news:gqvpd0$qbh$1@qmul...
I recognised the church so knew where the door was positioned
Stormin Mormon
film off some old rolls of 120 pan film, cause we couldn't
find 620 film. I had two spools, and couldn't lose one, or
I'd be out of business. I realize that usenet posts don't
reveal a person's age. So, I can find it in my heart to
consider forgiving you.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"George Kerby" <ghost_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:C5F8E927.262EC%ghost_...@hotmail.com...
George Kerby
On 4/1/09 11:06 PM, in article gr1dlv$dm8$1...@news.motzarella.org, "Stormin
Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Who you calling digital? My first camera, I had to roll the
> film off some old rolls of 120 pan film, cause we couldn't
> find 620 film. I had two spools, and couldn't lose one, or
> I'd be out of business. I realize that usenet posts don't
> reveal a person's age. So, I can find it in my heart to
> consider forgiving you.
Then you should know that the frame numbers and Kodak® logo would be
representative of orientation of the negative. Or did I misunderstand your
statement:
Stormin Mormon
that. It's not likely a well known bit of information.
Do you think that almost forty years later, I might not
remember, even if I knew back then?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"George Kerby" <ghost_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:C5FA2C94.26448%ghost_...@hotmail.com...
PDM
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gr2i8g$n4n$1...@news.motzarella.org...
meaningful to the group. Look at his other posts. Don't even reply to him.
Or better yet block him.
PDM
George Kerby
On 4/2/09 10:55 AM, in article 49d4e007$1...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com,
"PDM" <pdcm99[deletethisbit]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Fuck off dipshit.
George Kerby
On 4/2/09 9:29 AM, in article gr2i8g$n4n$1...@news.motzarella.org, "Stormin
Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, I can't imagine any way that I would have known
> that. It's not likely a well known bit of information.
>
> Do you think that almost forty years later, I might not
> remember, even if I knew back then?
So back then, you made proof sheets? I'm trying to understand why you
thought that my suggestion was not valid, that's all...
Stormin Mormon
way to orient negatives. Completely valid.
Yes, I made proof sheets back then. I also did enlargements,
and cropping, dodging, burning, etc. My reply is that I
don't know if the logo is correct, or reversed. And no way I
would remember, so many years ago.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"George Kerby" <ghost_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:C5FA67D4.264B4%ghost_...@hotmail.com...
George Kerby
On 4/2/09 1:33 PM, in article gr30ib$n9r$1...@news.motzarella.org, "Stormin
Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Looking for typed logos, etc, on the edge is an excellent
> way to orient negatives. Completely valid.
>
> Yes, I made proof sheets back then. I also did enlargements,
> and cropping, dodging, burning, etc. My reply is that I
> don't know if the logo is correct, or reversed. And no way I
> would remember, so many years ago.
No Chris, it isn't reversed. It is as it should be when one is looking at it
correctly (dull side to the paper/scanner and shiny side up-like
automobiles). I guess I spent so many days in the darkroom that it is
imprinted on my brain.
Hey, I wasn't as bad as a co-worker who ate his lunch by the light of the
amber safelight.
Stormin Mormon
Nothing like a black salad with white tomatos?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"George Kerby" <ghost_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:C5FAB3D0.2651B%ghost_...@hotmail.com...
Fred Flintstone
>A friend has asked me to get some prints from negs that are 30 years old. On
>a flatbed scanner, should the shiny neg surface be up or down?
This was a fun thread to read. Showing explicitly (yet again) how many
full-time resident trolls without a clue haunt this place daily and provide
nothing but their cyber role-playing "photographer" experience for
everyone. Do take note of all the nyms that tried to guess how to find the
right orientation but didn't know exactly why. Then killfile them
immediately because they are always spouting their imaginary
pretend-photographer nonsense.
The emulsion (dull) side of the film ALWAYS faced toward the lens in the
camera, facing in the direction of the light coming from the original
scene. Therefore the recorded image orientation will always be properly
seen when looking THROUGH the film from the shiny side to the dull
(emulsion) side. As if you were looking through the back of the
camera--orienting the emulsion toward the same direction from which the
image had originally been recorded.
In case you haven't figured out how to lay them on the flatbed scanner from
this, the scanner's optics are now acting as your eye(s). Proceed
accordingly.
Positive films (color transparencies, slides) are sometimes a little more
difficult to discern the emulsion side. In this case hold the film to a
light source reflecting off of the surface of the film at a glancing angle.
You can usually see a bias-relief image in the emulsion side caused by the
varying densities in the different color layers. The clear backing/carrier
side will always be perfectly smooth. Positive film also has more of a
tendency to have a concave surface (curls inward) on the emulsion side.
(Bonus points if you know why. I won't bother to explain.)
I'll leave it to these role-playing resident trolls to go "net-educate"
themselves to figure out why the emulsion side always faced toward the lens
in the camera. If they read enough from fellow role-playing website authors
then they too can write books about photography without ever having
actually held any camera, just like many photography-book and website
authors do today.
George Kerby
On 4/3/09 8:58 AM, in article gr54n9$gu8$1...@news.motzarella.org, "Stormin
Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the field report. I had forgotten.
>
> Nothing like a black salad with white tomatos?
<G!>
George Kerby
On 4/5/09 12:38 AM, in article 88dgt4d6hhfiidmrn...@4ax.com,
"Fred Flintstone" <bru...@spambegone.org> wrote:
And it took a Caveman to teach all these Techies the truth. Imagine that.
Thanks Fred!
Dave Busch
>A friend has asked me to get some prints from negs that are 30 years old. On
>a flatbed scanner, should the shiny neg surface be up or down?
Back in the darkroom days, we could put the edge of a neg between our
lips. The emulsion side would stick to one lip. Of course, it was
pretty easy to tell the matte from shiny side by the enlarger light.
In addition to avoiding reversing, you wanted the emulsion side
closest to the paper, so that the light went directly to the
photosensitive surface after already having passed through any
imperfections in the film base. Theoretically, you'd want the
emulsion side closest to the scanner for the same reason, and also
because the imaging path of many non-CCD scanners has less
depth-of-focus. As a practical matter, you probably won't notice an
IQ difference from 120/220 film negs.
-------------------------------------
Everything I know, and then some:
http://www.auctionmyths.com
Ken Hart
"Dave Busch" <moc.toofgib@eriafresal> wrote in message
news:31hst4dkfcjmb01fh...@4ax.com...
If these is edge printing on the negatives, including arrows, turn the
negative so the arrow is pointing clockwise, and you are looking at the
emulsion side. As for which side goes up, my photography teacher some 35
years ago taught "emulsion faces emulsion" (the emulsion side of the
negative faces the emulsion side of the paper). In your case, the scanner
glass is the "emulsion"