Etymology of "Sinister
HEMI - Powered
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/moon.html
http://www.yourdictionary.com/sinister
Quite a number of countries, regions, religions, races, and ethnic
groups have some varient of "sinister" from it's probably Latin
origins. These groups/countries view being left handed as somehow
evil, which goes right along with similar views by the same
groups/countries that one should never eat with the left hand, as
it is "unclean". This latter particularly goes back to Biblical
Times in what is now the Middle East and Palestine because of the
fundamental problem that there was no toilet paper nor any eating
utensils.
It is also curious that for as long as Anthropologists have kept
statistics, the percentage of left handed people has remained close
to 11%. Myths abound, including the out-moded notion that
attempting to change a child's handedness results in stunted or
retarded development. And, as the final insult to those whose
dominant hand is their "sinister" or "unclean" one, nearly ALL
orgainizations and apparatuses are designed around being right-
handed. Even the military which once forced soldiers to fire their
rifles right-handed still prefers that method, even though they no
longer require it.
So, you can imagine my surprise when I saw that President Obama not
only signs things like Executive Orders with his left hand, but
even uses the over-the-top writing style that traces it's origins
to the pen-and-ink days where penmanship students needed to keep
their hand from smearing the ink as then moved across the paper.
Draw your own conclusions from this, of course. And, Happy TGIF!
--
HP, aka Jerry
"The government that governs least, governs best" - Thomas
Jefferson
"Government is NOT the solution to our problems, it IS our
problem!" - Ronald Reagan
tony cooper
<no...@none.supernews> wrote:
>So, you can imagine my surprise when I saw that President Obama not
>only signs things like Executive Orders with his left hand, but
>even uses the over-the-top writing style that traces it's origins
>to the pen-and-ink days where penmanship students needed to keep
>their hand from smearing the ink as then moved across the paper.
>
>Draw your own conclusions from this, of course. And, Happy TGIF!
Wrong again, Jerry. The over-the-top writing position of the
left-hander caused *more* smearing, not less. That's the natural way
we left-handers start writing. I know, because I'm left-handed, I
started writing that way, and I learned to write with a stick pen at a
school desks with built-in inkwells.
The over-the-top style drags the hand or the cuff or the arm over the
fresh, wet ink of the previous lines. Not so much the line being
written, but the lines above it.
The other problem of the over-the-top style is that the pen nibs
punctured and tore the paper and caused ink to splatter because the
nibs were held too vertical.
I don't write that way anymore. I print everything except my
signature, and that's illegible.
What is odd about Obama is that he wears his wrist-watch on his left
hand. Most left-handers wear their wrist-watch on their right hand.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
tony cooper
<no...@none.supernews> wrote:
> Even the military which once forced soldiers to fire their
>rifles right-handed still prefers that method, even though they no
>longer require it.
>
I was in the Army in 1962 when we qualified with M1 Garand rifles.
While the M1 accepted a clip, we fed one round at a time into the
action when practicing and qualifying on the range. The bolt is on
the right side of the rifle, so the left-handed shooter had to reach
across the rifle and operate the bolt from above. Very awkward.
I fired right-handed in practice to avoid the wrath of the range
officer, but shot left-handed to qualify as Marksman.
C J Campbell
I wear my wristwatch on my left wrist, not my hand. :-) So do most
other southpaws I know. It is too hard to change the time and date and
work the stopwatch buttons if the watch is on the right wrist.
The QWERTY keyboard actually favors left-handed people.
The Bible mentions a military unit composed entirely of left-handed
slingers. They were supposed to be exceptional shots.
Military men who used swords and maces hated left-handed people. Boxers
still do.
The reason the military still encourages people to shoot right handed
is because of problems with shells being ejected from the breech.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor
tony cooper
That's different from my experience. It's almost a parlor trick to be
able to recognize the left-hander by noticing the wrist-watch on the
right wrist. Also, I can't imagine changing the date or the time
without taking the wrist-watch off. My regular watch - a Rolex -
doesn't have stopwatch buttons, but the watch I wear when scuba diving
does and I wear it on my right wrist.
Pilots may be different. Some of them wear their watch with the dial
on the underside of the wrist so they can see the face without turning
the wrist. My flight instructor did so.
>Military men who used swords and maces hated left-handed people. Boxers
>still do.
Castles were designed for the right-handed. The stairs curved to
enable the right-handed defender to advance sword-first.
>The reason the military still encourages people to shoot right handed
>is because of problems with shells being ejected from the breech.
If you've served in the military, and been on the rifle range, you'll
know that "encouraged" is not a strong enough word. Range officers
and non-coms would cuss out their grandmothers for the slightest
thing. I think that a full and complete knowledge of all possible
forms of profanity and insults is a requirement for that job.
Of course, that's the "old" Army.
bugbear
>
> Draw your own conclusions from this, of course. And, Happy TGIF!
>
Yes. I see it now. He's evil. Your evidence is clear and compelling.
JC Dill
> So, you can imagine my surprise when I saw that President Obama not
> only signs things like Executive Orders with his left hand,
Other left-handed US presidents:
James A. Garfield (1831-1881) 20th
Herbert Hoover (1874-1964) 31st
Harry S. Truman (1884-1972) 33rd
Gerald Ford (1913- ) 38th
Ronald Reagan (1911 - ) 40th
George H.W. Bush (1924- ) 41st
Bill Clinton (1946- ) 42nd
This makes Obama the 5th out of the most recent 7 US Presidents.
(Carter and W were right-handed.) Nothing sinister here.
ObPhotography - digital cameras must be really difficult for lefties. I
wonder when someone is going to make a digital camera for left-handed
users. I'm sure it would grab a large share of the market.
jc
Jürgen Exner
And the word "sinister" and his origins have exactly what to do with
digital photography?
Have you ever heard the saying about "there is a time and place"? Well,
I don't care about time but RPD is most certainly not the place for your
rants.
jue
Chris H
<tony_co...@earthlink.net> writes
When I was in the military it was insisted we fire both left and right
handed and be proficient at both.
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Chris H
Campbell <christoph...@hotmail.com> writes
>The reason the military still encourages people to shoot right handed
>is because of problems with shells being ejected from the breech.
Modern militaries train soldiers to be both left and right handed with a
rifle. Especially for urban warfare.
Frank ess
TMI.
More correctly, IIDGASA, here in the rec.photo.digital group.
--
Frank ess
tony cooper
wrote:
I don't notice anything about a digital - and I have both a P&S and a
dslr - that is affected by handedness. Though I'm left-handed, I hold
the camera in my right hand if holding it by one hand only. Feels
quite natural.
When using Photoshop in post-processing, I use a Logitech Trackman
trackball with my right hand and a Wacom tablet with my left. I have
a Logitech Marble Mouse that can be used with either hand, but I can't
manipulate it as finely as I can moving the trackball with my right
thumb. Acquired tactile adaptation, I guess.
The only device I own that is made specifically for left-handed use is
my Skilsaw circular saw. I've long-ago adapted to regular scissors.
My golf clubs are for left-handed use.
The biggest problem ever presented to me as a left-hander was the
holster for my cap gun as a kid. I was the slowest draw on the block
since I had to reach over and draw with my hand reversed. I do go for
a corner position at a table when seating is tight or I'll bump arms
with right-handed diners.
Deep Reset
"HEMI - Powered" <no...@none.supernews> wrote in message
news:Xns9B9C521E198...@216.168.3.30...
To save anyone actually having to read this crap, for the record, it does
not contain the words:
1) camera
2) photo
3) digital
4) lens
Move on people, nothing to see here.
Deep.
HEMI - Powered
jour ...
> And the word "sinister" and his origins have exactly what to do
> with digital photography?
I saw the president on a DIGITAL photograph
Allen
<snip>
> Military men who used swords and maces hated left-handed people. Boxers
> still do.
>
As do fencers and ping pong players.
Allen
C J Campbell
Haha. I was Air Force, and an officer at that. We were never allowed
near a rifle. I think if I had picked up an M-16 that some kindly NCO
would have immediately thrown me to the ground, yelling "Don't EVER
touch that, sir!" Or something like that.
No, we had .38 specials and we all had to qualify both left and right
handed with them. Not even a Colt .45. Sheesh.
C J Campbell
You have me. I don't get IIDGASA.
Chris Malcolm
> http://www.dpjs.co.uk/moon.html
> http://www.yourdictionary.com/sinister
> Quite a number of countries, regions, religions, races, and ethnic
> groups have some varient of "sinister" from it's probably Latin
> origins. These groups/countries view being left handed as somehow
> evil,
[snip]
> So, you can imagine my surprise when I saw that President Obama not
> only signs things like Executive Orders with his left hand, but
> even uses the over-the-top writing style that traces it's origins
> to the pen-and-ink days where penmanship students needed to keep
> their hand from smearing the ink as then moved across the paper.
> Draw your own conclusions from this, of course. And, Happy TGIF!
I'd like to draw your attention to two more suspicious features of
Obama. Firstly not only is he left handed, which as you rightly point
out is most sinister, but he is black, a colour regarded by many
cultures for good reasons as symbolising death and evil. Secondly he a
foreign name, for the very good reason that his father is a
foreigner. As anthropologists have long noted, foreigners are widely
regarded with great suspicion by many cultures, and for very good
reasons.
I'm really surprised that you're actually prepared to live in the kind
of country which can vote for a left handed black foreigner.
--
Chris Malcolm
Ray Fischer
>
>http://www.dpjs.co.uk/moon.html
>http://www.yourdictionary.com/sinister
>
>Quite a number of countries, regions, religions, races, and ethnic
>groups have some varient of "sinister" from it's probably Latin
>origins. These groups/countries view being left handed as somehow
>evil, which goes right along with similar views by the same
>groups/countries that one should never eat with the left hand, as
>it is "unclean". This latter particularly goes back to Biblical
>Times in what is now the Middle East and Palestine because of the
>fundamental problem that there was no toilet paper nor any eating
>utensils.
>So, you can imagine my surprise when I saw that President Obama not
>only signs things like Executive Orders with his left hand, but
>even uses the over-the-top writing style that traces it's origins
>to the pen-and-ink days where penmanship students needed to keep
>their hand from smearing the ink as then moved across the paper.
>
>Draw your own conclusions from this, of course. And, Happy TGIF!
My conclusion is that you're an insane bigot looking for any
justification to hate.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
tony cooper
wrote:
There's no place for him to move to. All of the rest of the world is
governed by foreigners.
Ron Hunter
> Take a gander at these for the root of the word "sinister".
>
> http://www.dpjs.co.uk/moon.html
> http://www.yourdictionary.com/sinister
>
> Quite a number of countries, regions, religions, races, and ethnic
> groups have some varient of "sinister" from it's probably Latin
> origins. These groups/countries view being left handed as somehow
> evil, which goes right along with similar views by the same
> groups/countries that one should never eat with the left hand, as
> it is "unclean". This latter particularly goes back to Biblical
> Times in what is now the Middle East and Palestine because of the
> fundamental problem that there was no toilet paper nor any eating
> utensils.
>
hand over the other.
> It is also curious that for as long as Anthropologists have kept
> statistics, the percentage of left handed people has remained close
> to 11%. Myths abound, including the out-moded notion that
> attempting to change a child's handedness results in stunted or
> retarded development. And, as the final insult to those whose
> dominant hand is their "sinister" or "unclean" one, nearly ALL
> orgainizations and apparatuses are designed around being right-
> handed. Even the military which once forced soldiers to fire their
> rifles right-handed still prefers that method, even though they no
> longer require it.
>
The reason the military recommends that everyone fire a rifle
right-handed is that the cartridge ejects to the right, and getting hot
brass in the face isn't conducive to accuracy. I shoot either way, but
will use an automatic rifle right-handed to avoid the flying brass.
> So, you can imagine my surprise when I saw that President Obama not
> only signs things like Executive Orders with his left hand, but
> even uses the over-the-top writing style that traces it's origins
> to the pen-and-ink days where penmanship students needed to keep
> their hand from smearing the ink as then moved across the paper.
>
I noticed that right away.
Ron Hunter
Ron Hunter
I guess it is better that officers were restricted to sidearms.
Wouldn't want them to hurt themselves.... Grin.
HEMI - Powered
...
>> Quite a number of countries, regions, religions, races, and
>> ethnic groups have some varient of "sinister" from it's
>> probably Latin origins. These groups/countries view being left
>> handed as somehow evil, which goes right along with similar
>> views by the same groups/countries that one should never eat
>> with the left hand, as it is "unclean". This latter
>> particularly goes back to Biblical Times in what is now the
>> Middle East and Palestine because of the fundamental problem
>> that there was no toilet paper nor any eating utensils.
>>
> A good point, but certainly not a functional reason for
> preferring one hand over the other.
I don't know if there IS a functional reason for being LEFT-handed.
Quite the opposite - since most things are designed for right-
handed people, lefties have always had to either adapt or push for
companies to create versions of their products for them.
>> It is also curious that for as long as Anthropologists have
>> kept statistics, the percentage of left handed people has
>> remained close to 11%. Myths abound, including the out-moded
>> notion that attempting to change a child's handedness results
>> in stunted or retarded development. And, as the final insult to
>> those whose dominant hand is their "sinister" or "unclean" one,
>> nearly ALL orgainizations and apparatuses are designed around
>> being right- handed. Even the military which once forced
>> soldiers to fire their rifles right-handed still prefers that
>> method, even though they no longer require it.
>
> The reason the military recommends that everyone fire a rifle
> right-handed is that the cartridge ejects to the right, and
> getting hot brass in the face isn't conducive to accuracy. I
> shoot either way, but will use an automatic rifle right-handed
> to avoid the flying brass.
Yes, EXACTLY. I saw this happen to my fellow Army Basic Trainees
trying to fire an M-16 left-handed. As a perverse joke, the Drill
Sergeants didn't tell the recruits that brass would go down their
shirts.
HEMI - Powered
...
>> Modern militaries train soldiers to be both left and right
>> handed with a rifle. Especially for urban warfare.
>
> If you go back to the days of the Mauser '98, SMLE or
> Springfield '03 you will find these are all right handed, bolt
> action rifles. Firing any of these left handed is not efficient
> and reduced rate of fire. The early (and most current) automatic
> rifles ( FN-FAL, M-14, M-16 AK-47) have right handed charging,
> or bolt actuator handles, with ejection to the right. Many have
> right handed safeties and fire selector switches. Only recently
> do we find combat weapons easily adapted for left hand use.
>
> Sport shooters (target & hunters) have always had access to left
> handed bolt action rifles.
Yes to both your points. The military up until now hasn't had the
luxury of building left-handed rifles or anything else for a sound
military reason - on the battlefield, soldiers might need to use
another's weapons or tools and MUST be able to use whatever is
available. Sporting goods makers can charge a premium to creat
left-handed versions for those who want them.
In the days prior to about Viet Nam, the military was SO insistant
about being right-handed that lefties suffered not only indignities
but outright abuse from their instructors. Again, I think this is
for GOOD military reasons.
> Certainly training for left and right handed use of weapons,
> especially for urban warfare is practical.
> I can speak from personal experience of Law enforcement
> training, where training and qualifying is maintained for
> "strong" & "weak" hands. This is vital for weapon retention
> techniques and weapon use when "strong" side injured.
> Double action revolvers are easy for right and left handers to
> shoot, but are best suited for right hand use when it comes to
> loading/reloading.
> Various semi-autos are ambidextrous friendly but also pose
> problems for lefties. Glocks for example when used left handed
> had a tendancy to have the magazine drop from the pistol grip
> due to the pressure of the left hand gripping the pistol,
> depressing the magazine release button. The great majority of
> semi-auto pistols eject to the right and have safeties on the
> left side (the Glock has no safety in the traditional sense.)
> Today there are many handguns which have custom or standard
> fitted ambidextrous safeties, however I have yet to find one
> which has a slide release for the lefty.
> My Kimber .45 Custom Pro CDP has an ambidextrous, thumb actuated
> safety, but the magazine and slide releases are best used by a
> right hander.
>
> Here is the left side of my Kimber http://snipr.com/3p558-py5c4w
> and the right http://snipr.com/3p55d-pkqw5l
>
Do you have an opinion as to why a) so many people, over 1/10 the
population, is still left-handed and b) why there are not modern
methods being developed to allow more people to be the overwhelming
norm, right-handed? If nothing else, the savings to society would
be overwhelming if left and right-handed devices were no longer
required.
HEMI - Powered
...
>> I fired right-handed in practice to avoid the wrath of the
>> range officer, but shot left-handed to qualify as Marksman.
>
> ...and that makes perfect sense.
>
> It also dates you as a little older than me. Another refugee of
> the 60's having graduated from high School in 1966 and the
> Selective Service blessing me with a draft number of 54.
I was a HS Class of 1965 man but didn't get drafted until 1970 after
I'd complete college. My draft lottery that year was in the 130s.
They only reached about 180 in 1970 but that hardly made a difference
to me!
John McWilliams
> On 2009-01-24 04:20:52 -0800, "HEMI - Powered" <no...@none.supernews> said:
>>>
>> Do you have an opinion as to why a) so many people, over 1/10 the
>> population, is still left-handed
>
> No.
>
>> and b) why there are not modern
>> methods being developed to allow more people to be the overwhelming
>> norm, right-handed? If nothing else, the savings to society would
>> be overwhelming if left and right-handed devices were no longer
>> required.
>
> No sensible opinion.
<< Snipped bits out >>
The savings would be miniscule, maybe a few hundred million dollars.
Maybe even a half billion! Small change.
--
John McWilliams
tony cooper
<no...@none.supernews> wrote:
>Do you have an opinion as to why a) so many people, over 1/10 the
>population, is still left-handed and b) why there are not modern
>methods being developed to allow more people to be the overwhelming
>norm, right-handed? If nothing else, the savings to society would
>be overwhelming if left and right-handed devices were no longer
>required.
What are the costs to society of left-handers?
The manufacturing of devices for left-handers is a benefit to society.
A company that makes or distributes left-handed devices provides
employment and results in taxes paid to the government. Society does
not absorb any of the costs of left-handedness, but members of the
society can exploit it as a niche market for the entrepreneurial. The
left-handers pay their own way by buying the products.
Although, as a left-hander, I require very few things that accommodate
my left-handedness. Golf clubs are the largest expenditure in this
area, but I don't pay more for left-handed clubs than I would for
right-handed clubs.
I would be quite pleased to receive government bail-out funds for
being left-handed, but - sadly - none have been proposed. The funds
seem to be earmarked for businesses that give million dollar bonuses
to executives who have run their business into the ground by making
bad decisions.
Pat
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 07:52:44 -0800, C J Campbell
>
>
>
> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
I don't think the swoop-around writing style of "most" lefties has
anything to do with fountain pens or ink wells. They haven't been
around since Christ was a child. It has more to do with brain wiring
and pen comfort. I have never curled my hand around the paper and
when I see other lefties do it I think "wow that looks awkward".
Ball point pens -- particularly cheap ones and one with edges (such as
the octagon ones) are particularly painful for lefties to use. It
also probably has something to do with righties teaching lefties to
write. When lefties write, you are pushing against the ball, not
pulling away from it. It gives you more friction and it causes
blochiness. It's just the mechanics of the pen. I switched to liquid
ink (or gel) as soon as I used the first one I came across. I don't
even bother to steal pens from cashiers because if I come across one
at home, I just throw it out anyway.
As for watches, it's no parlor game to spot lefties by what side they
wear their watches on and it's not weird the Obama wears a watch on
his left wrist. The astonishing thing is that he wears a watch at
all. They are going the way of buggy whips now that everyone carries
a cell phone. Don't you guys have phones? Get with the system. The
only person I know who wears a watch is a nurse who needs it for
taking pulses and such. Otherwise, no one wears one. Personally, I
tried wearing one in high school and couldn't get comfy with it on
either wrist so I gave up and haven't worn a watch since.
As for cameras, they are only right-handed because you think they
are. You have been conditioned to think that was and have the "poor
old me" syndrome. I PREFER the current set-up and consider it to be
left-handed. I much prefer to hold the weight of the camera with my
stronger arm and I much prefer to make the minute adjustments
necessary to zoom (and focus, back in the day) with my more dexterous
hand. I don't need my "good hand" to push the shutter -- heck, you
could do that with your nose. If you made me use my right hand for
holding the camera while zooming (and focusing) and tracking an
object, it would severely hurt my photographic abilities.
There are many more things I would like changed than cameras (or
watches). Start with phones.
Here's a final thought to leave you with. Don't you think lefties in
England complain that cars are right-handed just like lefties here do?
John McWilliams
> There are many more things I would like changed than cameras (or
> watches). Start with phones.
What would you change?
>
> Here's a final thought to leave you with. Don't you think lefties in
> England complain that cars are right-handed just like lefties here do?
No. Right hand drive cars: you shift with your left. This righty don'
like it none.
--
John McWilliams
tony cooper
>I don't think the swoop-around writing style of "most" lefties has
>anything to do with fountain pens or ink wells.
It's the other way around. The stick pen and the fountain pen are
awkward for the leftie because of the way the hand is held. Pen nibs
are not designed to be used near-vertical or from above. While people
were lefties before pens were devised, there's no doubt to the leftie
that pre-ballpoint pens were a problem for them.
>As for watches, it's no parlor game to spot lefties by what side they
>wear their watches on
Yet most lefties do wear their watch on the right wrist. A "parlor
trick" is different from a "parlor game". A "parlor trick" is some
little thing that some people can do (in this case, notice), and a
parlor game is an organized event for several people.
>and it's not weird the Obama wears a watch on
>his left wrist.
Who said it was?
>The astonishing thing is that he wears a watch at
>all. They are going the way of buggy whips now that everyone carries
>a cell phone. Don't you guys have phones? Get with the system. The
>only person I know who wears a watch is a nurse who needs it for
>taking pulses and such. Otherwise, no one wears one.
I love these broad-brush statements that have absolutely no basis in
fact but are made because the individual doesn't do whatever it is.
Watches are worn partly to tell time and partly as jewelry. Evidently,
I'm not as attached to my phone as you are. I carry it when away from
the house, but not all the time. When I do carry it, it's tucked in a
pocket and not as accessible as my watch.
Watches also have features not usually found on mobile phones:
stop-watch, lap time, elapsed time, etc.
>
>As for cameras, they are only right-handed because you think they
>are.
You are replying to my message, and I made no such statement.
> You have been conditioned to think that was and have the "poor
>old me" syndrome. I PREFER the current set-up and consider it to be
>left-handed. I much prefer to hold the weight of the camera with my
>stronger arm
I have more strength in my left arm than my right, but I hold my
camera with my right arm without any effort.
>and I much prefer to make the minute adjustments
>necessary to zoom (and focus, back in the day) with my more dexterous
>hand. I don't need my "good hand" to push the shutter -- heck, you
>could do that with your nose. If you made me use my right hand for
>holding the camera while zooming (and focusing) and tracking an
>object, it would severely hurt my photographic abilities.
I hold the camera with my right hand, but zoom with my left. I can't
imagine holding and zooming with the same hand...left or right with a
dslr. I zoom with my right thumb on my P&S camera, though.
>There are many more things I would like changed than cameras (or
>watches). Start with phones.
Phones are left- or right-handed?
>Here's a final thought to leave you with. Don't you think lefties in
>England complain that cars are right-handed just like lefties here do?
I would hope not. They have the advantage of having the center
console cup holder on their left.
I have few complaints stemming from my left-handedness. Waiters
always put my drink on the right and I have to move it to the left.
Then they move it back when they refill. I can live with that,
though.
Those credit card things where you have to sign your name on a little
screen are always positioned for the right-hander. Sometimes they are
immovable. Again, though, I manage.
J. Clarke
Been tried, doesn't work all that well. Schools used to try to force
lefties to write righty. I think most of 'em became doctors.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
frankh...@pcisys.net
>CLIPPED
>> >> Wrong again, Jerry. The over-the-top writing position of the
>> >> left-hander caused *more* smearing, not less. That's the natural way
>> >> we left-handers start writing. I know, because I'm left-handed, I
>> >> started writing that way, and I learned to write with a stick pen at a
>> >> school desks with built-in inkwells.
>>
>> >> The over-the-top style drags the hand or the cuff or the arm over the
>> >> fresh, wet ink of the previous lines. Not so much the line being
>> >> written, but the lines above it.
>>
>> >> The other problem of the over-the-top style is that the pen nibs
>> >> punctured and tore the paper and caused ink to splatter because the
>> >> nibs were held too vertical.
>CLIPPPED
On my first day of school (in 1944) the teacher announced that I was to learn to do everything right
handed. The next day my 90 lb. Grandmother came to school with me. I don't know what was said but
the teacher never brought up the subject again. In those days schools still tried to teach
penmanship with nib pens and ink wells. Fortunately there was a left handed teacher in my school
who had solved the problem of how to use a pen.
But back to the subject at hand (so to speak). I have noticed that there are basically 3 kinds of
lefthanded penmanship. *Upsidedown* (like President Obama) and *Broken wrist* (both taught by
right handed people), and then there are those of us who were taught by a lefty who had given some
thought to the subject. Just *rotate the paper* clockwise 90 degrees and write top to bottom. The
pen is at the same angle to the paper and is moved the same way as it is for a righty - our hand
does not drag through the ink - and we can do calligraphy with no problem.
tony cooper
I rarely - other than the scrawl that is my signature - write in
cursive. When I do, my hand's position is in the Nun Defense mode.
That is, with no more hand or wrist exposed than possible and the arm
held tightly against the body. This style was developed while under
the watchful eye of Sister Maria and her ever-present 12" ruler with
the brass insert. Nuns have always thought that left-handers were the
agents of the devil, more evil than Masons, and doomed to eternal
damnation unless routinely whacked with said ruler. I think I still
have the scars.
I went to school when nuns wore the full habit, and was absolutely
convinced that they did not walk like mortals. They floated silently
across the floor to appear without warning in front of the miscreant
whilst drawing the brass-edged ruler from out of the folds of the
habit. I was also convinced that nuns spent their evenings, when not
in prayer, squeezing walnuts with a shell-cracking force in order to
develop the hand muscles later used for the arm-numbing shoulder
pinch.
The Bobert
"HEMI - Powered" <no...@none.supernews> wrote:
> It is also curious that for as long as Anthropologists have kept
> statistics, the percentage of left handed people has remained close
> to 11%. Myths abound, including the out-moded notion that
> attempting to change a child's handedness results in stunted or
> retarded development. And, as the final insult to those whose
> dominant hand is their "sinister" or "unclean" one, nearly ALL
> orgainizations and apparatuses are designed around being right-
> handed. Even the military which once forced soldiers to fire their
> rifles right-handed still prefers that method, even though they no
> longer require it.
>
We are all born left handed, but become right handed when we commit our first sin
--
Dogs have owners, cats have staff.
Bob in Central California
Robert Coe
: Haha. I was Air Force, and an officer at that. We were never allowed
: would have immediately thrown me to the ground, yelling "Don't EVER
: touch that, sir!" Or something like that.
:
: handed with them. Not even a Colt .45. Sheesh.
<chuckle!> That reminds me of our recently departed "President", Little Boy
Bush. During one of his campaigns, the Alabama Air National Guard was savaged
for looking the other way when he failed to show up for a year of duty that
apparently got him out of going to Vietnam. I put myself in the place of the
commander of the Alabama ANG: Do I really want that moron flying around in a
$10 million airplane over populated areas on my watch? The question answers
itself. :^)
Bob
C J Campbell
<sigh> So much for Obama's plan to bring unity and civility back into
political discourse.
Listen, there is not going to be much healing of political divisions in
this country if people are going to insist on this over the top,
disrespectful, utterly disgusting kind of language. I fail to see how
people who do this are showing that they are any smarter than President
Bush. Quite the contrary.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor
Robert Coe
: anything to do with fountain pens or ink wells. They haven't been
: around since Christ was a child. It has more to do with brain wiring
: and pen comfort. I have never curled my hand around the paper and
: when I see other lefties do it I think "wow that looks awkward".
So would I, I think. My father was left-handed, and so was one of my high
school classmates with whom I worked at a summer job in college. Both were
trained cartographic draftsmen with excellent penmanship, both in printing and
in cursive writing, and both eschewed the over-the-top style. I don't think my
left-handed granddaughter writes that way either, although I have to confess
I'm not certain of that.
: Ball point pens -- particularly cheap ones and one with edges (such as
: the octagon ones) are particularly painful for lefties to use. It
: also probably has something to do with righties teaching lefties to
: write. When lefties write, you are pushing against the ball, not
: pulling away from it. It gives you more friction and it causes
: blochiness. It's just the mechanics of the pen. I switched to liquid
: ink (or gel) as soon as I used the first one I came across. I don't
: even bother to steal pens from cashiers because if I come across one
: at home, I just throw it out anyway.
Who knew there was a handedness to ballpoint pens? Live a lot, learn a little,
I guess.
: As for watches, it's no parlor game to spot lefties by what side they
: wear their watches on and it's not weird the Obama wears a watch on
: his left wrist. The astonishing thing is that he wears a watch at
: all. They are going the way of buggy whips now that everyone carries
: a cell phone. Don't you guys have phones? Get with the system. The
: only person I know who wears a watch is a nurse who needs it for
: taking pulses and such. Otherwise, no one wears one. Personally, I
: tried wearing one in high school and couldn't get comfy with it on
: either wrist so I gave up and haven't worn a watch since.
Both my wife and I still wear wristwatches, and I thought everybody did. And
while I again have to admit to a lack of observation of what others do, your
assertion is counterintuitive. Wristwatches were invented because pocket
watches were considered unwieldy, and a cell phone is a particularly large and
unwieldy pocket watch. I relied on my cell phone only once, when my wristwatch
battery died and I was too lazy to get it replaced for several weeks.
: As for cameras, they are only right-handed because you think they
: are. You have been conditioned to think that was and have the "poor
: old me" syndrome. I PREFER the current set-up and consider it to be
: left-handed. I much prefer to hold the weight of the camera with my
: stronger arm and I much prefer to make the minute adjustments
: necessary to zoom (and focus, back in the day) with my more dexterous
: hand. I don't need my "good hand" to push the shutter -- heck, you
: could do that with your nose. If you made me use my right hand for
: holding the camera while zooming (and focusing) and tracking an
: object, it would severely hurt my photographic abilities.
I'm nearly ambidextrous, so I have little basis for assessing the handedness
of a camera. But I do have one observation in that regard. I compose and focus
with my right eye; and I've noticed that when I crop a picture vertically, the
part I jettison is almost always on the right. Only within the last few weeks
did I finally realize why: An SLR viewfinder is near the middle of the camera,
and when you try to get your eye close to it, your nose is in the way.
Apparently I compensate for that by turning my head to the left, which causes
me to see the left side of the field of view more clearly than the right.
Consequently, I tend to compose the picture without considering its right-hand
end, which often contains irrelevant stuff. I'm trying to make myself
compensate, but it isn't that easy to do.
: There are many more things I would like changed than cameras (or
: watches). Start with phones.
:
: Here's a final thought to leave you with. Don't you think lefties in
: England complain that cars are right-handed just like lefties here do?
When manual transmissions were the norm, I'd have expected British drivers to
consider cars to be left-handed. Now it's hard to see how a car favors one
hand over the other, either here or there. (Well, maybe it's harder to work
the radio and air conditioning with your left hand. I don't think I'd care.)
Bob
Robert Coe
<christoph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
One of the good things about our system is that you can sneer at my opinions
and the language I use to express them, and there's nothing I can do about it.
Gitting rid of Bush (and most especially his handler Cheney) helps ensure that
that will continue to be the case.
Bob
Paul Bartram
> "Pat" <gro...@artisticphotography.us> wrote
> Here's a final thought to leave you with. Don't you think lefties in
> England complain that cars are right-handed just like lefties here do?
Never really thought of cars being left or right -handed, just -drive. I'm
left handed and drive a RHD van (Australia) with column shift, and I find
that perfectly comfortable. I have driven a LHD rental in the US and didn't
find it better or worse.
I can tell you that being left handed is a curse if you're on dialysis. My
fistular (needle access) is in my right arm, but the machines are usually on
the left side of the bed or chair, meaning the blood lines cross over your
chest - makes reading or eating doubly difficult.
I have no problems with cameras, you get used to being a bit awkward. Power
saws are a pain, because the sawdust shoots straight in your face (I tape
over the shute.)
I don't write 'overhand' BTW. The only problem I have there is with
spiral-bound notebooks, I have to use them upside down to avoid the spine.
Paul
tony cooper
>On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:38:02 -0800 (PST), Pat <gro...@artisticphotography.us>
>wrote:
>: I don't think the swoop-around writing style of "most" lefties has
>: anything to do with fountain pens or ink wells. They haven't been
>: around since Christ was a child. It has more to do with brain wiring
>: and pen comfort. I have never curled my hand around the paper and
>: when I see other lefties do it I think "wow that looks awkward".
>
>So would I, I think. My father was left-handed, and so was one of my high
>school classmates with whom I worked at a summer job in college. Both were
>trained cartographic draftsmen with excellent penmanship, both in printing and
>in cursive writing, and both eschewed the over-the-top style. I don't think my
>left-handed granddaughter writes that way either, although I have to confess
>I'm not certain of that.
I mentioned that I always print. I took both mechanical and
architectural drawing courses, and my printing still shows the result
of that. My cursive is near-illegible because of switching from
over-the-top to arm-clamped-at-the-side.
I'm not sure one "eschews" a writing position. Eschewing is a choice
to shun or avoid. The writing position develops naturally when one
first learns to write. Left-handers don't choose to write
over-the-top; it's a natural tendency. I later changed from
over-the-top, but it was a matter of self-defense rather than
self-initiated logical choice. I did it to avoid being struck by my
teachers.
I would suspect that your father was taught a different position by
one of his parents in the early grades or before he entered school. A
little guidance by a parent during the developmental stage makes a big
difference. I was reading and writing (at a primary level) before I
entered school, but my mother never tried to influence my writing
position.
The left-handers I've known who have never written over-the-top have
all been people whose parents (usually the mother) worked with them in
learning to write before they entered school and guided them into the
standard hand-below-the-line position. Not situations where they
changed, but situations where they were guided to a style from the
beginning and that overcame the natural tendency.
>: Ball point pens -- particularly cheap ones and one with edges (such as
>: the octagon ones) are particularly painful for lefties to use. It
>: also probably has something to do with righties teaching lefties to
>: write. When lefties write, you are pushing against the ball, not
>: pulling away from it. It gives you more friction and it causes
>: blochiness. It's just the mechanics of the pen. I switched to liquid
>: ink (or gel) as soon as I used the first one I came across. I don't
>: even bother to steal pens from cashiers because if I come across one
>: at home, I just throw it out anyway.
>
>Who knew there was a handedness to ballpoint pens? Live a lot, learn a little,
>I guess.
I've certainly never noticed it.
tony cooper
NEAR lizzy.com.au> wrote:
>I have no problems with cameras, you get used to being a bit awkward. Power
>saws are a pain, because the sawdust shoots straight in your face (I tape
>over the shute.)
I use a left-handed circular saw. Home Depot carries them.
>
>I don't write 'overhand' BTW. The only problem I have there is with
>spiral-bound notebooks, I have to use them upside down to avoid the spine.
Agreed. I like top spirals for this reason.
Ray Fischer
>
>> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 18:03:52 -0800, C J Campbell wrote:
>> : Haha. I was Air Force, and an officer at that. We were never allowed
>> : near a rifle. I think if I had picked up an M-16 that some kindly NCO
>> : would have immediately thrown me to the ground, yelling "Don't EVER
>> : touch that, sir!" Or something like that.
>> :
>> : No, we had .38 specials and we all had to qualify both left and right
>> : handed with them. Not even a Colt .45. Sheesh.
>>
>> <chuckle!> That reminds me of our recently departed "President", Little Boy
>> Bush. During one of his campaigns, the Alabama Air National Guard was savaged
>> for looking the other way when he failed to show up for a year of duty that
>> apparently got him out of going to Vietnam. I put myself in the place of the
>> commander of the Alabama ANG: Do I really want that moron flying around in a
>> $10 million airplane over populated areas on my watch? The question answers
>> itself. :^)
>>
>> Bob
>
><sigh> So much for Obama's plan to bring unity and civility back into
>political discourse.
>
>Listen, there is not going to be much healing of political divisions in
>this country if people are going to insist on this over the top,
>disrespectful, utterly disgusting kind of language.
Oooo! Another Bush apologist!
> I fail to see how
>people who do this are showing that they are any smarter than President
>Bush. Quite the contrary.
Well, we haven't killed hundreds of thousands of people, for one.
I actually pay my bills, for another.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
HEMI - Powered
> I don't think the swoop-around writing style of "most" lefties
> has anything to do with fountain pens or ink wells. They
> haven't been around since Christ was a child. It has more to do
> with brain wiring and pen comfort. I have never curled my hand
> around the paper and when I see other lefties do it I think "wow
> that looks awkward".
Actually, it does, Pat.
When I was a small child in Catholic school, we were required to
use fountain pens with real ink in them. They allowed the kids to
print and write left-handed but those who did quickly found out
that if they kept their hands down as the right-handed kids did,
they smeared the ink as they moved from left to right across the
sheet. Righties don't smear because the pen itself is the left-most
part of the process. So, my friends learned to twist their wrists
so as to get their hands ABOVE the line of ink being laid down in
that characteristic form. It DID stop the ink from being smeared IF
the students not only kept the palm of the hand and wrist out of
the way but also lifted their fingers completely above the wet ink.
In today's world where roller ball ink is somewhat wet, perhaps
this technique has seen a resurgence for the same reason as over 60
years ago.
But, there IS another way: and that is for parents to recognize
EARLY tendencies to be left-handed and to encourage the child to
changeover to rightie GENTLY NOT by slapping the hands or yelling
at the child but by simply removing the object from the child's
left hand and placing it in their right hand. This works quite
well, I've seen it, and it produces NO so-called mental damage to
the growing child. If done correctly and with sensitivity, the
child will thank you later once they discover how much better they
are equipped to live in a right-handed world.
Cameras almost exclusively ARE right-handed just as cars are in the
vast majority of countries of the world. It is a rare camera that
doesn't have the shutter button under the right finger or a car
with the accelerator pedal, brake pedal, and shift lever meant for
the right side. But for cars, ALL of them were initially designed
to be driven on the left but in the United States and most
countries except Great Britain, Japan, and a few holdovers, it
quickly became apparent that it was both easier and safer to do it
the right-handed way.
It amuses me that our new president, who claims to be so smart,
ever allowed himself to fall for not only being out-of-touch with
mainstream thinking about handedness and also to look particularly
silly when signing his name.
tony cooper
wrote:
>Pat added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...
>
>> I don't think the swoop-around writing style of "most" lefties
>> has anything to do with fountain pens or ink wells. They
>> haven't been around since Christ was a child. It has more to do
>> with brain wiring and pen comfort. I have never curled my hand
>> around the paper and when I see other lefties do it I think "wow
>> that looks awkward".
>
>Actually, it does, Pat.
>
>When I was a small child in Catholic school, we were required to
>use fountain pens with real ink in them. They allowed the kids to
>print and write left-handed but those who did quickly found out
>that if they kept their hands down as the right-handed kids did,
>they smeared the ink as they moved from left to right across the
>sheet. Righties don't smear because the pen itself is the left-most
>part of the process. So, my friends learned to twist their wrists
>so as to get their hands ABOVE the line of ink being laid down in
>that characteristic form. It DID stop the ink from being smeared IF
>the students not only kept the palm of the hand and wrist out of
>the way but also lifted their fingers completely above the wet ink.
That is only true when one or two lines of writing is the case. When
an entire page is written, there the over-the-top style *still*
results in smeared ink and inky hands, arms, and sleeves.
As a left-hander who attended Catholic grade school at the time stick
pens and inkwells were used, I assure you that the writing position
was *not* adopted to avoid smearing and did nothing to avoid smearing.
It was just their natural inclination.
>
>It amuses me that our new president, who claims to be so smart,
>ever allowed himself to fall for not only being out-of-touch with
>mainstream thinking about handedness and also to look particularly
>silly when signing his name.
While I don't think it looks silly, it is *what* he signs that is
important. So far, he is showing a great deal of intelligence in
choosing what to sign. Quite unlike his predecessor.
Gene S. Berkowitz
@earthlink.net says...
> What is odd about Obama is that he wears his wrist-watch on his left
> hand. Most left-handers wear their wrist-watch on their right hand.
I have not found that to be the case. Since there are few "left-
handed" watches, operating a "normal" watch on the right hand is very
difficult, especially winding/setting, as you can't bend your wrist to
get clear access to the watchstem.
--Gene (lefty).
C J Campbell
Arguably, the Democrats have killed millions of people through giving
aid and comfort to the enemy and encouraging them to believe that they
can win. And they are no better at paying their bills.
C J Campbell
Actually, Obama's recent efforts to silence talk radio hosts -- even
ordering(!) Republicans to stop listening to them, are strong
indications to the contrary.
But you miss the point. I don't listen to these nuts on the radio
because they are, well, nuts. I am sick of the contentiousness. And
that goes for both right and left.
tony cooper
wrote:
>On 2009-01-25 03:54:52 -0800, "HEMI - Powered" <no...@none.sn> said:
>
>>
>> It amuses me that our new president, who claims to be so smart,
>> ever allowed himself to fall for not only being out-of-touch with
>> mainstream thinking about handedness and also to look particularly
>> silly when signing his name.
>
>Jerry,
>This Parthian shot of yours
What's this? Jerry is part of extinct civilization in what is now
Iran?
Well, now that I think about, it does sound like a fairly accurate
description. He lives for horsepower, and the Parthian archers shot
their arrows from horseback. Jerry could do so cleverly concealed from
view blending into the rear anatomy of a horse.
tony cooper
This left-hander is manually adept enough to remove his watch to
re-set it. I haven't had a wind-up wristwatch for years.
Chris Malcolm
> ...
>>> Quite a number of countries, regions, religions, races, and
>>> ethnic groups have some varient of "sinister" from it's
>>> probably Latin origins. These groups/countries view being left
>>> handed as somehow evil, which goes right along with similar
>>> views by the same groups/countries that one should never eat
>>> with the left hand, as it is "unclean". This latter
>>> particularly goes back to Biblical Times in what is now the
>>> Middle East and Palestine because of the fundamental problem
>>> that there was no toilet paper nor any eating utensils.
>>>
>> A good point, but certainly not a functional reason for
>> preferring one hand over the other.
> I don't know if there IS a functional reason for being LEFT-handed.
> Quite the opposite - since most things are designed for right-
> handed people, lefties have always had to either adapt or push for
> companies to create versions of their products for them.
Left handed swordsmen, boxers, ball players, etc., have the advantage
of being more used to right handed opponents than their opponents are
used to left handed ones.
--
Chris Malcolm
Pat
> On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 05:54:52 -0600, "HEMI - Powered" <n...@none.sn>
I think I'm out of touch on this whole ink-smearing thing. I put my
paper nearly (but not quite) perpendicular to my chest. I then use
the same basic grip as a rightie. My entire hand is below the line
and there is no smearing going on.
The only drawback is that the pen rests between the thumb, the "finger
print" part of the index finger", and the side of the lowest part of
the middle finger. When you go left to right as a rightie, that means
the "push" pressure goes against the thumb. For me, the pressure goes
against the side of the middle finger. If I write a lot, use a poor
quality ball point, or a pen with anything but a round barrel, it can
hurt after a while. So I use liquid ink or soft pencils.
But smearing isn't a problem at all.
tony cooper
You may be out-of-touch with the references in thread, but not
out-of-touch entirely. The smearing was a problem when we used stick
pens dipped in inkwells. When fountain pens came in, there was some
smearing but the fountain pen didn't lay down as much ink as the nibs
on the old stick pens.
The smearing being talked about doesn't happen with modern ball-point
pens. You can smear some ball-point ink, but it's not a problem like
it used to be.
Gene S. Berkowitz
@earthlink.net says...
...which implies that you wear it on your left wrist, QED. Battery-
powered analog watches often still use the stem for setting the time
and/or date.
--Gene
tony cooper
<first...@verizon.net> wrote:
>In article <h58pn45765lhnc2vf...@4ax.com>, tony_cooper213
>@earthlink.net says...
>> On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:00:42 GMT, Gene S. Berkowitz
>> <first...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <lbjjn4d49ub2qair7...@4ax.com>, tony_cooper213
>> >@earthlink.net says...
>> >
>> >> What is odd about Obama is that he wears his wrist-watch on his left
>> >> hand. Most left-handers wear their wrist-watch on their right hand.
>> >
>> >I have not found that to be the case. Since there are few "left-
>> >handed" watches, operating a "normal" watch on the right hand is very
>> >difficult, especially winding/setting, as you can't bend your wrist to
>> >get clear access to the watchstem.
>>
>> This left-hander is manually adept enough to remove his watch to
>> re-set it. I haven't had a wind-up wristwatch for years.
>
>...which implies that you wear it on your left wrist, QED.
Why? I wear my wristwatch on my right wrist.
> Battery-
>powered analog watches often still use the stem for setting the time
>and/or date.
I wear a Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust. The calendar window always
goes to 31, so I have to take off the watch and re-set the calendar
following any month that doesn't have 31 days. It is not
battery-powered, but does have a stem to set time and date.
I don't see the big deal about taking off a watch. I remove mine
every morning to shower and any time I'm working in the garage or
yard.
Allen
news://news.giganews.news:119/976c9483-a327-4943...@a39g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
<snip>
> You may be out-of-touch with the references in thread, but not
> out-of-touch entirely. The smearing was a problem when we used stick
> pens dipped in inkwells. When fountain pens came in, there was some
> smearing but the fountain pen didn't lay down as much ink as the nibs
> on the old stick pens.
>
> The smearing being talked about doesn't happen with modern ball-point
> pens. You can smear some ball-point ink, but it's not a problem like
> it used to be.
>
>
>
Being a right-hander I can't speak of the problems of lefties. But the
mention of penstaffs and inkwells brought back memories of elementary
school. Although fountain pens had just about totally replaced those
antiques for just about everything but calligraphy, we weren't allowed
to use them--we had to stick with the ways of antiquity. I'm surprised
that they didn't make us catch geese and make pens out of their quills.
I will say that left-to-right writing is not the only problem lefties
face in this world; much office equipment is geared to right-handers,
among other things. Also, my mother had an uncle who lost his right arm
back around 1900. He special-ordered American cars made for export to
Britain so that he could shift gears, make turn signals, etc.
Fortunately, he was well off financially so that he could afford such
things. One thing he could do faster than anyone else I've ever known
was to put a worm on a fishhook--one-handed, no less. He was a state
district judge and gavels are ambidextrous, so to speak, so his
left-handedness didn't create any problems there.
Allen
Gene S. Berkowitz
@earthlink.net says...
> On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:40:31 GMT, Gene S. Berkowitz
> <first...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >In article <h58pn45765lhnc2vf...@4ax.com>, tony_cooper213
> >@earthlink.net says...
> >> On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:00:42 GMT, Gene S. Berkowitz
> >> <first...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <lbjjn4d49ub2qair7...@4ax.com>, tony_cooper213
> >> >@earthlink.net says...
> >> >
> >> >> What is odd about Obama is that he wears his wrist-watch on his left
> >> >> hand. Most left-handers wear their wrist-watch on their right hand.
> >> >
> >> >I have not found that to be the case. Since there are few "left-
> >> >handed" watches, operating a "normal" watch on the right hand is very
> >> >difficult, especially winding/setting, as you can't bend your wrist to
> >> >get clear access to the watchstem.
> >>
> >> This left-hander is manually adept enough to remove his watch to
> >> re-set it. I haven't had a wind-up wristwatch for years.
> >
> >...which implies that you wear it on your left wrist, QED.
>
> Why? I wear my wristwatch on my right wrist.
Whoops, I meant your right wrist (since you can't easily operate its
right-hand design)...
>
> > Battery-
> >powered analog watches often still use the stem for setting the time
> >and/or date.
>
> I wear a Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust. The calendar window always
> goes to 31, so I have to take off the watch and re-set the calendar
> following any month that doesn't have 31 days. It is not
> battery-powered, but does have a stem to set time and date.
>
> I don't see the big deal about taking off a watch. I remove mine
> every morning to shower and any time I'm working in the garage or
> yard.
Yes, but it's a hassle if you want to operate features like a stopwatch.
--Gene
Ray Fischer
LOL! Aside from being sleazy bigotry, you're too stupid to notice that
it was your hero Reagan who encouranged the "enemy" by turning tail
and running when a couple of hundred Marines were killed in Lebanon.
And Reagan was a Reublican.
But, as usual, we see that it's another right-winger who whines about
"disrespectful, utterly disgusting kind of language" and then accuses
other people of aiding terrorists.
In short, shove it up your bigoted ass, you goose-stepping,
freedom-hating hypocrite.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
tony cooper
<first...@verizon.net> wrote:
Yes, it would be a hassle. In fact, and insurmountable problem since
the dress watch does not have any stopwatch functions.
My dive watch has stopwatch functions and a rotating bezel. I operate
all of the functions with my left hand when my watch is on my right
wrist. If I wore it on my left wrist, and operated the functions with
my right hand, it would not be easier or more difficult. You don't
use the stem for stopwatch functions.
George Kerby
On 1/25/09 11:30 PM, in article 497d4a74$0$1670$742e...@news.sonic.net,
"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote:
If you had a penny for everytime you uttered "bigot", you know, Fish-Rot,
you just *might* have enough cash to take up another hobby, and stay the
fuck outta here?