The Shot Seen 'Round the World
ASAAR
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124424737510590641.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Finally, and none too soon!
Paul Bartram
> "ASAAR" <cau...@22.com> wrote
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124424737510590641.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
> Finally, and none too soon!
I have to say, I've never seen that photo before, nor can I see what is
special about it, not being a baseball fan. As a photograph, it looks like
any one of millions of 'point & shoot' shots taken from the stands at any
sports event over the years. I'm sure it is historical with regards to the
sport, but to me... nehh.
Just my personal opinion, YMMV.
Paul
ASAAR
OR NEAR lizzy.com.au> wrote:
>> Finally, and none too soon!
>
> I have to say, I've never seen that photo before, nor can I see what is
> special about it, not being a baseball fan. As a photograph, it looks like
> any one of millions of 'point & shoot' shots taken from the stands at any
> sports event over the years. I'm sure it is historical with regards to the
> sport, but to me... nehh.
You have to realize that the image quality on that web page is
quite poor. The Busch Pressman was a medium format camera and
although I don't know which film size Rudy Mancuso used (it may have
been 4x5, 6x9 or one of the other sizes, the image quality must have
easily surpassed that of most of today's P&S cameras. Back in 1951
cameras weren't quite that ubiquitous, nor were videos capturing the
entire game (from multiple positions and angles) the way they are
today. From the way it was described, Mancuso probably captured the
only shot of what was widely known as 'the Shot Heard 'Round the
World'. Heard, not seen.
You may have no interest in that photo and even that sport, just
as there are probably many historical moments in football (soccer),
rugby, cricket that are unknown to me. But were I to come across an
account of any of them, including pictures, I'd probably find them
interesting. I'd say "Hmm, interesting.", not "to me... nehh."
That's more like the attitude of uncurious George, our last
president, who was not one that set many (if any) good examples to
follow.
From comments made by many that read that WSJ article, what was of
most interest wasn't even the photo and the well known event that it
captured. Much more interesting to them was how Mancuso finally
came into possession of the long lost negative, just days before he
died, and its final disposition.
> Just my personal opinion, YMMV.
Of course. It's hard to disagree with truisms.
ASAAR
OR NEAR lizzy.com.au> wrote:
>> Finally, and none too soon!
>
> I have to say, I've never seen that photo before, nor can I see what is
> special about it, not being a baseball fan. As a photograph, it looks like
> any one of millions of 'point & shoot' shots taken from the stands at any
> sports event over the years. I'm sure it is historical with regards to the
> sport, but to me... nehh.
You have to realize that the image quality on that web page is
quite poor. The Busch Pressman was a medium format camera and
although I don't know which film size Rudy Mancuso used (it may have
been 4x5, 6x9 or one of the other sizes, the image quality must have
easily surpassed that of most of today's P&S cameras. Back in 1951
cameras weren't quite that ubiquitous, nor were videos capturing the
entire game (from multiple positions and angles) the way they are
today. From the way it was described, Mancuso probably captured the
only shot of what was widely known as 'the Shot Heard 'Round the
World'. Heard, not seen.
You may have no interest in that photo and even that sport, just
as there are probably many historical moments in football (soccer),
rugby, cricket that are unknown to me. But were I to come across an
account of any of them, including pictures, I'd probably find them
interesting. I'd say "Hmm, interesting.", not "to me... nehh."
That's more like the attitude of uncurious George, our last
president, who was not one that set many (if any) good examples to
follow.
From comments made by many that read that WSJ article, what was of
most interest wasn't even the photo and the well known event that it
captured. Much more interesting to them was how Mancuso finally
came into possession of the long lost negative, just days before he
died, and its final disposition.
> Just my personal opinion, YMMV.
Of course. It's hard to disagree with truisms.
David J Taylor
Completely agree.
David
Me
We saw ed sullivan on TV back then, but as the consulates (under the big
M signs) weren't yet established, we never got any really important news
like that from the US. But thank god for president gates' invention of
the internet - now we know - and that little snippet has every chance of
achieving it's headline.
Rich
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124424737510590641.html?mod=googlenew...
>
> Finally, and none too soon!
Baseball? I thought someone had a picture of the assassination of
Archduke Ferdinand.
Chris H
.com>, Rich <rande...@gmail.com> writes
>On Jun 10, 9:02�pm, ASAAR <cau...@22.com> wrote:
>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124424737510590641.html?mod=googlenew...
>>
>> �Finally, and none too soon!
>
>Baseball?
Otherwise known as the girl's game of Rounders in the civilised world.
> I thought someone had a picture of the assassination of
>Archduke Ferdinand.
Quite...
Baseball, American Football and the like are relay only of interest in
the USA. So *any* event in Baseball only has local interest.
The problem is that Americans think that things that are important only
to Americans are of global significance.
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
tony cooper
wrote:
>In message <250106fb-48d5-4568...@y7g2000yqa.googlegroups
>.com>, Rich <rande...@gmail.com> writes
>>On Jun 10, 9:02�pm, ASAAR <cau...@22.com> wrote:
>>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124424737510590641.html?mod=googlenew...
>>>
>>> �Finally, and none too soon!
>>
>>Baseball?
>
>Otherwise known as the girl's game of Rounders in the civilised world.
Not just in the civilized world. I think the game is called
"rounders" in the UK, too.
>Baseball, American Football and the like are relay only of interest in
>the USA. So *any* event in Baseball only has local interest.
You've not heard of Japan?
>The problem is that Americans think that things that are important only
>to Americans are of global significance.
The _Wall Street Journal_, the source of the article, is an American
publication. It's quite natural for an American publication to
contain articles of interest to Americans. It's quite possible that
"The Grauniad" carries articles of interest only to Brits.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
ASAAR
>> Baseball?
>
> Otherwise known as the girl's game of Rounders in the civilised world.
>
>> I thought someone had a picture of the assassination of
>> Archduke Ferdinand.
>
> Quite...
>
> Baseball, American Football and the like are relay only of interest in
> the USA. So *any* event in Baseball only has local interest.
>
> The problem is that Americans think that things that are important only
> to Americans are of global significance.
The deserved collapse of the British Empire so long ago is
evidently still a bitter pill. As far as Rounders is concerned,
baseball is an entirely different game that requires considerable
physical attributes and skill. The lure of high pay attracts
talented athletes from all over the world. I don't recall any from
G.B. that have been signed, but if there are a few, they're
certainly much more talented than even your most capable
schoolgirls.
That said, your parochial jibes aren't undeserved. Too many here
still shout "We're number one. We're number one!" even far after
that's no longer true. It's good that your infamous Paki Bashing no
longer occurs . . . or is it simply less widely reported?
Savageduck
> In message <250106fb-48d5-4568...@y7g2000yqa.googlegroups
> .com>, Rich <rande...@gmail.com> writes
>> On Jun 10, 9:02�pm, ASAAR <cau...@22.com> wrote:
>>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124424737510590641.html?mod=googlenew...
>>>
>>> �Finally, and none too soon!
>>
>> Baseball?
>
> Otherwise known as the girl's game of Rounders in the civilised world.
>
>> I thought someone had a picture of the assassination of
>> Archduke Ferdinand.
>
> Quite...
>
> Baseball, American Football and the like are relay only of interest in
> the USA. So *any* event in Baseball only has local interest.
>
> The problem is that Americans think that things that are important only
> to Americans are of global significance.
Bear in mind baseball & Softball are now Olympic sports, and just try
and tell a Cuban or Nicaraguan that it is an exclusively American
sport. The Japanese, Australians and South Africans also produce teams
which are able to compete at the international level.
...and they are definitely not playing rounders.
--
Regards,
Savageduck
Savageduck
> On Jun 10, 9:02�pm, ASAAR <cau...@22.com> wrote:
>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124424737510590641.html?mod=googlenew..
> .
>>
>> �Finally, and none too soon!
>
> Baseball? I thought someone had a picture of the assassination of
> Archduke Ferdinand.
The term "The shot heard around the World" has been used ever since
American Revolutionary times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_heard_around_the_world
--
Regards,
Savageduck
tony cooper
>On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 15:55:33 +0100, Chris H wrote:
>
>>> Baseball?
>>
>> Otherwise known as the girl's game of Rounders in the civilised world.
>>
>>> I thought someone had a picture of the assassination of
>>> Archduke Ferdinand.
>>
>> Quite...
>>
>> Baseball, American Football and the like are relay only of interest in
>> the USA. So *any* event in Baseball only has local interest.
>>
>> The problem is that Americans think that things that are important only
>> to Americans are of global significance.
>
> The deserved collapse of the British Empire so long ago is
>evidently still a bitter pill. As far as Rounders is concerned,
>baseball is an entirely different game that requires considerable
>physical attributes and skill. The lure of high pay attracts
>talented athletes from all over the world. I don't recall any from
>G.B. that have been signed, but if there are a few, they're
>certainly much more talented than even your most capable
>schoolgirls.
There are many professional athletes, playing for American teams, who
are from countries formerly part of the British Empire. The sun has
set on the Empire, though, and Britannia rules only over the waves on
the ponds on the greens.
ASAAR
> Bear in mind baseball & Softball are now Olympic sports, and just try
> and tell a Cuban or Nicaraguan that it is an exclusively American
> sport. The Japanese, Australians and South Africans also produce teams
> which are able to compete at the international level.
>
> ...and they are definitely not playing rounders.
Nor are the many current Dominican baseball stars. It's also not
a new phenomenon, as shown by Roberto Clemente (Puerto Rico) being
drafted by the Pittsburgh Pirates in 1954 and Luis Aparicio
(Venezuela) who won the "Rookie of the Year" award in 1956 when he
replaced another Venezuelan shortstop, Chico Carrasquel.
This Aparicio info came from the following website, which shows
that baseball is not just a USA pastime, it's not even a global
pastime, it's an interplanetary pastime, thanks to the contributions
of the infamous Bill Veeck (as in wreck).
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/luis_aparicio_biography.shtml
Chris H
<tony_co...@earthlink.net> writes
>On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 15:55:33 +0100, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <250106fb-48d5-4568...@y7g2000yqa.googlegroups
>>.com>, Rich <rande...@gmail.com> writes
>>>On Jun 10, 9:02�pm, ASAAR <cau...@22.com> wrote:
>>>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124424737510590641.html?mod=googlenew...
>>>>
>>>> �Finally, and none too soon!
>>>
>>>Baseball?
>>
>>Otherwise known as the girl's game of Rounders in the civilised world.
>
>Not just in the civilized world. I think the game is called
>"rounders" in the UK, too.
:-)
>
>>Baseball, American Football and the like are relay only of interest in
>>the USA. So *any* event in Baseball only has local interest.
>
>You've not heard of Japan?
OK so 2 countries..
>
>>The problem is that Americans think that things that are important only
>>to Americans are of global significance.
>
>The _Wall Street Journal_, the source of the article, is an American
>publication. It's quite natural for an American publication to
>contain articles of interest to Americans. It's quite possible that
>"The Grauniad" carries articles of interest only to Brits.
It does but it does not make them out to have global significance
"the shot seen around the world" as long as "the world" is mainland
USA.
Frank ess
"Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
news:2009061310025291752-savageduck@REMOVESPAMmecom...
Where did I see this, recently? Someone asked whether or not a UNC
socket and Whitworth screw (or vice versa) would wear one another to
the point of uselessness. Reference was to tripod and camera screw and
socket.
quote:
Never trust a Wikipedia page. They have been authored by
basement-living
trolls who are trying to live out a lifelong dream of being an expert
on
something, anything. The only reason that many of them are attracted
like
flies to author Wiki pages and finally have a voice in life is that
nobody
has ever wanted to listen to their nonsense in real life. At least on
a
Wiki page they can get away with it. Mostly they just copy some
passages
from elsewhere on the net without ever understanding what they have
read,
and never knowing that the information they copied was in error.
(Hmmm...
not unlike most of the posts in these groups.) I ran across that exact
type
of nonsense when researching Calrod manufacturing methods, then again
when
looking up information about several bird species. They then guard
their
stupidity like a troll under a bridge, hitting "undo edit" 24 hours a
day,
every time that someone corrects their blatant ignorance. People with
real-world experience and knowledge eventually give up trying to
educate
those relentless cretins who are now desperately protecting the only
thing
they've ever erroneously accomplished in life. What a sorry life those
Wiki-Trolls have chosen for themselves. Yet, an even worse life is
lived by
those that take any Wiki page as fact.
How To Use Any Wikipedia Effectively: Jump immediately to any external
links on the pages to see where they copied their information from, as
it
certainly wasn't from any real-life experiences of their own, then
search
beyond that for something the least bit closer to the truth.
"D. Langdon"
end quote
While I agree caution is advisable in accepting Wiki information as
gospel, there is much to be said in its favor.
After several rounds of discussion, it seemed to me the reasonable
conclusion was: in low-stress conditions, the mismatch is not fatal. A
little search would yield sources for matching components.
" ... apeshit stridency is self-limiting in its effect."
- Mike L.
"So one should be careful about giving advice and not having to deal
with the consequences of that advice".
-- Condoleezza Rice
--
Frank ess
J. Clarke
> In message <dij735tmvt0gkja63...@4ax.com>, tony cooper
> <tony_co...@earthlink.net> writes
>> On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 15:55:33 +0100, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message
>>> <250106fb-48d5-4568...@y7g2000yqa.googlegroups
>>> .com>, Rich <rande...@gmail.com> writes
>>>> On Jun 10, 9:02 pm, ASAAR <cau...@22.com> wrote:
>>>>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124424737510590641.html?mod=googlenew...
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, and none too soon!
>>>>
>>>> Baseball?
>>>
>>> Otherwise known as the girl's game of Rounders in the civilised
>>> world.
>>
>> Not just in the civilized world. I think the game is called
>> "rounders" in the UK, too.
>
> :-)
>
>>
>>> Baseball, American Football and the like are relay only of
>>> interest in the USA. So *any* event in Baseball only has local
>>> interest.
>>
>> You've not heard of Japan?
>
> OK so 2 countries..
Guess you haven't heard of Cuba either. Commies they may be, but they love
"beisbol".
tony cooper
Chris is doing exactly what he accuses Americans of doing, but in
reverse. He accuses Americans of being interested only what is done
in America as a Brit who is not interested in anything that is not
done in the UK.
That's OK, though. We Americans are not interested in the shove
ha'penny finals, the Aunt Sally cup matches, or the conkers death
matches and we don't feel the least bit arrogant about it.
>>> The _Wall Street Journal_, the source of the article, is an American
>>> publication. It's quite natural for an American publication to
>>> contain articles of interest to Americans. It's quite possible that
>>> "The Grauniad" carries articles of interest only to Brits.
>>
>> It does but it does not make them out to have global significance
>> "the shot seen around the world" as long as "the world" is mainland
>> USA.
The British media have other priorities. BBC feels that women with
large breasts are far more deserving of coverage than a baseball game.
http://www.hiddenfeet.com/my-big-breasts-and-me-bbc-documentary/
Peter
news:wt6a9LBPj$MKF...@phaedsys.demon.co.uk...
> In message <dij735tmvt0gkja63...@4ax.com>, tony cooper
> <tony_co...@earthlink.net> writes
>>On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 15:55:33 +0100, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In message <250106fb-48d5-4568...@y7g2000yqa.googlegroups
>>>.com>, Rich <rande...@gmail.com> writes
>>>>On Jun 10, 9:02 pm, ASAAR <cau...@22.com> wrote:
>>>>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124424737510590641.html?mod=googlenew...
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, and none too soon!
>>>>
>>>>Baseball?
>>>
>>>Otherwise known as the girl's game of Rounders in the civilised world.
>>
>>Not just in the civilized world. I think the game is called
>>"rounders" in the UK, too.
>
> :-)
>
>>
>>>Baseball, American Football and the like are relay only of interest in
>>>the USA. So *any* event in Baseball only has local interest.
>>
>>You've not heard of Japan?
>
> OK so 2 countries..
>
Don't be so insular.
Add most of East Asia, many countries in Latin America, oh! yes, The Czech
Republic, etc
--
Peter
Peter
news:gv48359748hbdlkbi...@4ax.com...
But, many of us used to be very interested in the Irish Sweepstakes.
>
> The British media have other priorities. BBC feels that women with
> large breasts are far more deserving of coverage than a baseball game.
> http://www.hiddenfeet.com/my-big-breasts-and-me-bbc-documentary/
>
Over a mouthful is wasted.
--
Peter
Paul Furman
> On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:11:20 +1000, "Paul Bartram" <paul.bartram AT
> OR NEAR lizzy.com.au> wrote:
>
>>> Finally, and none too soon!
>> I have to say, I've never seen that photo before, nor can I see what is
>> special about it, not being a baseball fan. As a photograph, it looks like
>> any one of millions of 'point & shoot' shots taken from the stands at any
>> sports event over the years. I'm sure it is historical with regards to the
>> sport, but to me... nehh.
>
> You have to realize that the image quality on that web page is
> quite poor.
800x652 pixel version:
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/.a/6a00df351e888f8834011570e4466f970b-popup
from:
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/06/rudy-mancuso-gets-justice-in-the-end.html
> The Busch Pressman was a medium format camera and...
--
Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com
all google groups messages filtered due to spam
John McWilliams
> Baseball, American Football and the like are relay only of interest in
> the USA. So *any* event in Baseball only has local interest.
In general, true, but there are exceptions. What else consititutes "the
like"?
> The problem is that Americans think that things that are important only
> to Americans are of global significance.
Some Americans think this, just as some Brits, Aussies, French, German
etc etc etc. are chauvinistic and/or narrowminded and/or boorish clods
and/or misanthropic twits.
You consistently engage in bashing others, and with a broad brush. Could
you rethink this?
--
john mcwilliams
Robert Coe
: .com>, Rich <rande...@gmail.com> writes
: >On Jun 10, 9:02�pm, ASAAR <cau...@22.com> wrote:
: >> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124424737510590641.html?mod=googlenew...
: >>
: >> �Finally, and none too soon!
: >
: >Baseball?
:
: Otherwise known as the girl's game of Rounders in the civilised world.
:
: > I thought someone had a picture of the assassination of
: >Archduke Ferdinand.
:
: Quite...
:
: Baseball, American Football and the like are relay only of interest in
: the USA. So *any* event in Baseball only has local interest.
You don't say. Actually, it's quite possible that there are more baseball fans
in Japan than there are soccer fans in England.
Bob
Robert Coe
Not just Cuba, but several other Latin American countries. La Rep�blica
Dominicana, por ejemplo, is a hotbed of b�isbol interest.
And (to a somewhat lesser extent) Canada, despite Rich's smartass remark.
Bob
Robert Coe
wrote:
: On 2009-06-13 07:55:33 -0700, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org> said:
:
: > In message <250106fb-48d5-4568...@y7g2000yqa.googlegroups
: > .com>, Rich <rande...@gmail.com> writes
: >> On Jun 10, 9:02�pm, ASAAR <cau...@22.com> wrote:
: >>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124424737510590641.html?mod=googlenew...
: >>>
: >>> �Finally, and none too soon!
: >>
: >> Baseball?
: >
: > Otherwise known as the girl's game of Rounders in the civilised world.
: >
: >> I thought someone had a picture of the assassination of
: >> Archduke Ferdinand.
: >
: > Quite...
: >
: > Baseball, American Football and the like are relay only of interest in
: > the USA. So *any* event in Baseball only has local interest.
: >
: > The problem is that Americans think that things that are important only
: > to Americans are of global significance.
:
Are you sure about that? Maybe softball still is (for women only, I believe),
but I think baseball has been dropped.
Bob
tony cooper
I've never heard of any "baseball hooligans" in Japan.
Bob Larter
> The British media have other priorities. BBC feels that women with
> large breasts are far more deserving of coverage than a baseball game.
Sounds reasonable to me. ;^)
--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
ASAAR
>> The British media have other priorities. BBC feels that women with
>> large breasts are far more deserving of coverage than a baseball game.
>
> Sounds reasonable to me. ;^)
It's not that different in the USA, whether baseball or basketball.
Morganna the Kissing Bandit
http://www.seattlepi.com/allstar/30130_morganna06.shtml
Busty Heart (Celtics)
tony cooper
Actually, this was a shot "seen round the world". Even in 1951, there
were Americans who avidly followed baseball living and working in all
corners of the globe. There was a large group of Americans spending
some time in Korea in 1951. There's no claim that the (photograph)
shot was of interest to anyone but Americans, but the claim of it
being seen 'round the world is valid.
The line is misquoted, though, since the term is the "Shot heard
'round the world" based on a line in a poem by Ralph Waldo Emerson.
The misquotation is a deliberate play on words, but the original usage
regarding the photograph was "heard" because it described Bobby
Thompson's home run hit. A "shot" is a slang term for a home run or a
photograph. Still is to this day:
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090604&content_id=5141520&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
J. Clarke
That's because Japan is a bit of a drive from Germany.
Ron Hunter
> In message <250106fb-48d5-4568...@y7g2000yqa.googlegroups
> .com>, Rich <rande...@gmail.com> writes
>> On Jun 10, 9:02 pm, ASAAR <cau...@22.com> wrote:
>>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124424737510590641.html?mod=googlenew...
>>>
>>> Finally, and none too soon!
>> Baseball?
>
> Otherwise known as the girl's game of Rounders in the civilised world.
>
>> I thought someone had a picture of the assassination of
>> Archduke Ferdinand.
>
> Quite...
>
> Baseball, American Football and the like are relay only of interest in
> the USA. So *any* event in Baseball only has local interest.
>
> The problem is that Americans think that things that are important only
> to Americans are of global significance.
>
>
John Turco
>
> On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:11:20 +1000, "Paul Bartram" <paul.bartram AT
> OR NEAR lizzy.com.au> wrote:
>
> >
> > special about it, not being a baseball fan. As a photograph, it looks like
> > any one of millions of 'point & shoot' shots taken from the stands at any
> > sports event over the years. I'm sure it is historical with regards to the
> > sport, but to me... nehh.
<edited for brevity>
> You may have no interest in that photo and even that sport, just
> as there are probably many historical moments in football (soccer),
> rugby, cricket that are unknown to me. But were I to come across an
> account of any of them, including pictures, I'd probably find them
> interesting. I'd say "Hmm, interesting.", not "to me... nehh."
> That's more like the attitude of uncurious George, our last
> president, who was not one that set many (if any) good examples to
> follow.
<edited>
> > Just my personal opinion, YMMV.
>
> Of course. It's hard to disagree with truisms.
Hello, ASAAR:
Hey, man, let's allow those poor, unfortunate Australian wretches (and
their countless counterparts, in other non-U.S., English-speaking nations),
to broaden their horizons, shall we? :-)
Wikipedia - Shot Heard 'Round the World (baseball)
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_Heard_'Round_the_World_(baseball)>
An excerpt, from the above Web page:
"In baseball, the 'Shot Heard 'Round the World' is the term given to the walk-off home run hit by New York
Giants outfielder Bobby Thomson off Brooklyn Dodgers pitcher Ralph Branca at the Polo Grounds to win the
National League pennant at 3:58 p.m. EST on October 3, 1 951. As a result of the 'shot' (baseball slang
for 'home run' or any hard-hit ball), the Giants won the game 5�4, defeating the Dodgers in their pennant
playoff series, two games to one. It is also referred as the most famous case of sign-stealing in baseball.
"The phrase shot heard 'round the world is from a classic poem by Ralph Waldo Emerson, originally used
to refer to the first clash of the American Revolutionary War and since used to apply to other dramatic
moments, military and otherwise. In the case of Thomson's home run, it was particularly apt as U.S.
servicemen fighting in the Korean War listened to the radio broadcast of the game."
Personally, I've never been much of a baseball fan, until the playoffs
and World Series roll around. Good, ol' American-style football, has
always been my preferred spectator sport. <g>
By the way, the Wikipedia article refreshed my memory, about a bit of
chicanery I'd read of (on the Web), a few years ago.
Here's the relevant quote:
"In February 2001, Joshua Harris Prager of the Wall Street Journal reported that the Giants had positioned
coach Herman Franks with a telescope in the Giants' clubhouse during the latter half of the season, including
the game itself, and had stolen the pitching signs of the Dodger catcher, Rube Walker, subbing for the injured
Roy Campanella in the playoff game[2]. Prager concluded that the spy had signalled pitches to the Giants'
batters, including Thomson, thus enabling Thomson to know in advance what pitch Branca was going to throw him.
According to Prager's research, Franks was hidden in Giant manager Leo Durocher's office, which was positioned
in the Polo Grounds center field and offered a line-of-sight view of the catcher. A buzzer system was installed
so that Franks could signal a player in the Giants' bullpen, located on the field of play in deep left field.
The player would then signal the batter as to what pitch was coming.
"However, acknowledging that sign-stealing was not made a violation of rules by Major League Baseball, and
that it had been a part of baseball since the inception of signs as a means of communication between pitcher
and catcher, Prager in an interview with CNN on February 3, 2001, left it to readers to determine if the
sign-stealing, which Thomson denied, diminished the stature of the event. While the Prager article said that
MLB had formally outlawed sign-stealing in the 1960s, his followup book in 2006, The Echoing Green, notes
that the major leagues to this writing have not outlawed the practice.
"The burden of uncovering sign-stealers is consigned to the opposing team, typically the visiting team. The
fact that the visiting teams won the first two games of the playoff series raises the question of how effective
the alleged sign-stealing really was. Nonetheless, Prager points out in The Echoing Green that Thompson hit
over .100 higher after the sign stealing scheme began in July 1951 and 'no doubt' received advanced notice
of the two fastballs Branca threw at him that day."
Oh, well, there was >some< justice, after all...as the New York Yankees
defeated their crosstown rivals (the Giants), 4 games to 2, in the 1951
World Series. :-J
Cordially,
John Turco <jt...@concentric.net>
Savageduck
The IOC voted to drop baseball & softball from the 2012 Olympic
program, perhaps this was due to the lack of enthusiasm from the London
hosts.
However since 1992 16 nations have competed The UK conspicuous by its
abscence. The full list of competing nations was:
Australia
Canada
China
China Taipei
Cuba
Dominican Republic
Greece
Italy
Japan
South Korea
Netherlands
Nicaragua
Puerto Rico
South Africa
Spain
USA
The Gold medalists have been:
1992 Cuba
1996 Cuba
2000 USA
2004 Cuba
2008 South Korea
--
Regards,
Savageduck
Savageduck
If you check on the verbiage used in the the above quote and the full
headers of the post you got it from, you might also note D. Landon is
our notorious P&S troll in yet another sock.
>
>
> While I agree caution is advisable in accepting Wiki information as
> gospel, there is much to be said in its favor.
>
> After several rounds of discussion, it seemed to me the reasonable
> conclusion was: in low-stress conditions, the mismatch is not fatal. A
> little search would yield sources for matching components.
True.
>
>
> " ... apeshit stridency is self-limiting in its effect."
> - Mike L.
>
> "So one should be careful about giving advice and not having to deal
> with the consequences of that advice".
> -- Condoleezza Rice
--
Regards,
Savageduck
Chris H
<tony_co...@earthlink.net> writes
>On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 16:24:53 -0400, "J. Clarke"
><jclarke...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>Chris H wrote:
>>> In message <dij735tmvt0gkja63...@4ax.com>, tony cooper
>>> <tony_co...@earthlink.net> writes
>>>>> only to Americans are of global significance.
>
>Chris is doing exactly what he accuses Americans of doing, but in
>reverse. He accuses Americans of being interested only what is done
>in America as a Brit who is not interested in anything that is not
>done in the UK.
No idea where you get that idea from.. I travel a fair bit and I am
interested it the rest of the world
>That's OK, though. We Americans are not interested in the shove
>ha'penny finals, the Aunt Sally cup matches, or the conkers death
>matches and we don't feel the least bit arrogant about it
However we don't make claims like "The Shot Seen 'Round the World" for
local UK or EU stuff
John McWilliams
> In message <gv48359748hbdlkbi...@4ax.com>, tony cooper
> <tony_co...@earthlink.net> writes
>> On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 16:24:53 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>>>>>> The problem is that Americans think that things that are important
>>>>>> only to Americans are of global significance.
>> Chris is doing exactly what he accuses Americans of doing, but in
>> reverse. He accuses Americans of being interested only what is done
>> in America as a Brit who is not interested in anything that is not
>> done in the UK.
>
> No idea where you get that idea from.. I travel a fair bit and I am
> interested it the rest of the world.
I get that you are well traveled and well educated.
However, you frequently display chauvinism and Yankee bashing.
--
John McWilliams
Chris H
<jp...@comcast.net> writes
Probably from having had to work with Americans (civilians in military)
both in the US, Europe and ME. However as they have not shot at me for
over a decade I am starting to soften a bit :-)
tony cooper
wrote:
>In message <gv48359748hbdlkbi...@4ax.com>, tony cooper
><tony_co...@earthlink.net> writes
>>On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 16:24:53 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>><jclarke...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Chris H wrote:
>>>> In message <dij735tmvt0gkja63...@4ax.com>, tony cooper
>>>> <tony_co...@earthlink.net> writes
>>>>>> The problem is that Americans think that things that are important
>>>>>> only to Americans are of global significance.
>>
>>Chris is doing exactly what he accuses Americans of doing, but in
>>reverse. He accuses Americans of being interested only what is done
>>in America as a Brit who is not interested in anything that is not
>>done in the UK.
>
>No idea where you get that idea from.. I travel a fair bit and I am
>interested it the rest of the world
>
>>That's OK, though. We Americans are not interested in the shove
>>ha'penny finals, the Aunt Sally cup matches, or the conkers death
>>matches and we don't feel the least bit arrogant about it
>
>However we don't make claims like "The Shot Seen 'Round the World" for
>local UK or EU stuff
It was the "The shot seen 'round the world". If the photograph was
viewed by people in all parts of the word, the title is accurate. If,
for example, it was published in the _International Herald Tribune_ (a
globally distributed newspaper), it was seen 'round the world.
Certainly the event, the 1951 World Series, was a news item globally.
It may not have been of interest to all, but it was in the news.
The _Guardian_ is currently running articles on the NBA finals. The
event may be of interest mainly to Americans in the UK, but the
_Guardian_ considers it to be newsworthy enough to publish articles
about it. In this case, it's a Brit editor who thinks an American
event is significant in the UK.
ASAAR
>> You have to realize that the image quality on that web page is
>> quite poor.
>
> 800x652 pixel version:
> http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/.a/6a00df351e888f8834011570e4466f970b-popup
> from:
> http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/06/rudy-mancuso-gets-justice-in-the-end.html
Much, much better photo, thanks. Some very nice comments too,
balanced by the ignorant ones such as "Baseball sucks -- NASCAR
rocks!" that begs for a tap on the temple with a spanner.
ASAAR
> >Chris is doing exactly what he accuses Americans of doing, but in
> >reverse. He accuses Americans of being interested only what is done
> >in America as a Brit who is not interested in anything that is not
> >done in the UK.
>
> No idea where you get that idea from.. I travel a fair bit and I am
> interested it the rest of the world
My take was that your initial reply was just a bit of gentle but
well deserved teasing, that provoked me enough to reply in kind.
But many in the newsgroups from the USA don't want to see much of
this lest it leads to some "tortured" discussions of some of the
reasons for this rather widespread attitude.
>> That's OK, though. We Americans are not interested in the shove
>> ha'penny finals, the Aunt Sally cup matches, or the conkers death
>> matches and we don't feel the least bit arrogant about it
>
> However we don't make claims like "The Shot Seen 'Round the World"
> for local UK or EU stuff
Not having lived in, let alone traveled to the UK I can't dispute
this, but as bragging is a universal trait, I'd have to think that
someone's putting something in your water if no similar bragadocious
claims have ever been made.
TSSRtW is literally true from some perspectives, even if it wasn't
of major significance to most people around the world. Now I get to
use what I normally consider a mildly loathsome word. Whatever.
Frank ess
Savageduck wrote:
> On 2009-06-13 13:15:40 -0700, "Frank ess" <fr...@fshe2fs.com> said:
>
>>
[ ... ]
What a sorry life those Wiki-Trolls have chosen for
>> themselves. Yet, an even worse life is lived by those that take
>> any Wiki page as fact.
>>
>> How To Use Any Wikipedia Effectively: Jump immediately to any
>> external links on the pages to see where they copied their
>> information from, as it certainly wasn't from any real-life
>> experiences of their own, then search beyond that for something
>> the least bit closer to the truth.
>>
>> "D. Langdon"
>> end quote
>
> If you check on the verbiage used in the the above quote and the
> full headers of the post you got it from, you might also note D.
> Landon is our notorious P&S troll in yet another sock.
>
So you're saying whoever he is is wrong?
--
Frank ess
Matt Clara
> In message <250106fb-48d5-4568...@y7g2000yqa.googlegroups
> .com>, Rich <rande...@gmail.com> writes
>>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124424737510590641.html?mod=googlenew...
>>>
>>> Finally, and none too soon!
>>
>>Baseball?
>
>
>>Archduke Ferdinand.
>
>
> Baseball, American Football and the like are relay only of interest in
> the USA. So *any* event in Baseball only has local interest.
>
> to Americans are of global significance.
Sounds like a logical fallacy of generalization. Prick.
Savageduck
I am saying the nature of his NG history has made all of his
contributions suspect. At this point it would be difficult for him to
maintain any sort of credibility with many frequent fliers in these
NG's.
He might very well have something useful to contribute, but his current
MO & agenda on with Usenet groups makes that unlikely.
I also doubt that it is not in his nature to temper his style so he
could participate as a non-troll.
--
Regards,
Savageduck
Savageduck
Did I actually write, "doubt that is not in his nature?"
Let me clarify. It is NOT in his nature to temper his style so he could
Frank ess
--
Frank ess
ASAAR
>> Let me clarify. It is NOT in his nature to temper his style so he
>> could participate as a non-troll.
>
> So you're saying whoever he is is wrong?
Yes, most definitely, he is a very wrong individual, which is not
to say that he doesn't occasionally say something that is factually
correct. But even on those rare occasions, one should try to figure
out what his agenda is, because he is never without one, not unlike
you perhaps, but his agendas are malignant. Yours aren't, although
they often are also tipped with barbs.
Bruce
>tony cooper <tony_co...@earthlink.net> writes
>
>>That's OK, though. We Americans are not interested in the shove
>>ha'penny finals, the Aunt Sally cup matches, or the conkers death
>>matches and we don't feel the least bit arrogant about it
>
>However we don't make claims like "The Shot Seen 'Round the World" for
Don't we? Surely World Series Conkers is seen around the world
(including the USA) on television?
And hasn't Shove Ha'penny been officially accepted as a new Olympic
sport for London 2012?
;-)
Savageduck
I am saying however factual some of what he writes might be, he has
discredited his arguments with his underlying agenda, and it seems
unlikely that he will change.
If he ever decides to make a non-vitriolic balance contribution, he
would have to change many things including writing style, and all which
makes him so easily identifiable in his full headers.
For all I know he may already be making a decent contribution as some
other regular poster, using his current MO to play to some dark side of
his personality.
--
Regards,
Savageduck
tony cooper
We are eagerly looking forward to David Beckham and Eric Cantona to
tour the US with Dwile Flonking exhibition matches. It's expected
that the Spice Girls will do the girting.
the Omrud
> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:41:01 +0100, Bruce <n...@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>>> tony cooper <tony_co...@earthlink.net> writes
>>>
>>>> That's OK, though. We Americans are not interested in the shove
>>>> ha'penny finals, the Aunt Sally cup matches, or the conkers death
>>>> matches and we don't feel the least bit arrogant about it
>>> However we don't make claims like "The Shot Seen 'Round the World" for
>>> local UK or EU stuff.
>>
>> Don't we? Surely World Series Conkers is seen around the world
>> (including the USA) on television?
>>
>> And hasn't Shove Ha'penny been officially accepted as a new Olympic
>> sport for London 2012?
>
> We are eagerly looking forward to David Beckham and Eric Cantona to
> tour the US with Dwile Flonking exhibition matches.
I suspect that you had to look up the spelling, possibly from my last
recollection of the Great Match on the Sands at Cromer in about 1973.
> It's expected that the Spice Girls will do the girting.
"girting"? Did you mean "gurning"? That's a North-West occupation,
rather than East Anglia.
--
David
tony cooper
<usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>tony cooper wrote:
>> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:41:01 +0100, Bruce <n...@nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>>>> tony cooper <tony_co...@earthlink.net> writes
>>>>
>>>>> That's OK, though. We Americans are not interested in the shove
>>>>> ha'penny finals, the Aunt Sally cup matches, or the conkers death
>>>>> matches and we don't feel the least bit arrogant about it
>>>> However we don't make claims like "The Shot Seen 'Round the World" for
>>>> local UK or EU stuff.
>>>
>>> Don't we? Surely World Series Conkers is seen around the world
>>> (including the USA) on television?
Unless it's played in the US, it can't be a "world" event. We have
claim to that.
>>> And hasn't Shove Ha'penny been officially accepted as a new Olympic
>>> sport for London 2012?
>>
>> We are eagerly looking forward to David Beckham and Eric Cantona to
>> tour the US with Dwile Flonking exhibition matches.
>
>I suspect that you had to look up the spelling, possibly from my last
>recollection of the Great Match on the Sands at Cromer in about 1973.
>
>> It's expected that the Spice Girls will do the girting.
>
>"girting"? Did you mean "gurning"? That's a North-West occupation,
>rather than East Anglia.
Don't you follow your own National Sports? "Girting" is dancing
around a member of the flonking team. "Gurning" is making faces.
If a gurner is added to the tour, I suggest Heather Mills. She can't
very well dance, can she?
Oh, wait. She does. I've never watched that show, though.
(Yes, I checked the spelling. The Brits have this habit of sticking
the letter "u" in things, and I didn't want to flunk the test.)
the Omrud
Hardly. I take part in sporting activities, but I can't grok the point
of watching others do so.
> "Girting" is dancing around a member of the flonking team.
Ah, I see - I had forgotten the term. But the girting activity is not a
separate action - it's part of the game which is undertaken by the
current "fielding" side, as it might be in cricket or that American form
of rounders you play. If the Spice Grils were to take time off from
being Chief Scout in order to girt, then they would be Dwile Flonking
themselves. You may not yet have a mental image of what a match looks like.
> "Gurning" is making faces.
Yes, I did go to Manchester University, and that was one of the first
things they taught us.
> If a gurner is added to the tour, I suggest Heather Mills. She can't
> very well dance, can she?
She dances like Sara Bernhardt.
> Oh, wait. She does. I've never watched that show, though.
Me neither. I'm not sure I know what she looks like, although I
understand she's a shoe-in for the role of Tarzan (Spigot by name and
spigot by nature).
> (Yes, I checked the spelling. The Brits have this habit of sticking
> the letter "u" in things, and I didn't want to flunk the test.)
I collected the Metro system in Munich this week, but that was putting a
Brit in a U-bahn, rather than the other way around.
--
David
ray
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124424737510590641.html?
mod=googlenews_wsj
>
> Finally, and none too soon!
Hardly correct since much of the world cares not at all about baseball.
Frank ess
Seems to me the point was related to recognition of the photographer,
not the game.
--
Frank ess
tony cooper
<usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
I admit to that. Readily. When I first saw the term, I thought that
some guy named Dwile was getting a lot of action. (If you know what I
mean. If you know what I mean. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge)
That's why you need to put a Dwile Flunking team on tour. From the
sound of it, it's not something silly like Morris Dancing. I'm sure
Americans would take to it.
I know of no American sport where the participants dance around the
opposing side. Participants and coaches often dance around the
referees or umpires over a disputed call, but it's a rather awkward
step since the essential moves are scuffing dirt and belly-bumping.
ASAAR
> Hey, man, let's allow those poor, unfortunate Australian wretches (and
> their countless counterparts, in other non-U.S., English-speaking nations),
> to broaden their horizons, shall we? :-)
Nah, lets just throw a few of them on the barbie. Good to see
you've returned. Unfortunately so has the infamous Mssr. Navas.
> Oh, well, there was >some< justice, after all...as the New York Yankees
> defeated their crosstown rivals (the Giants), 4 games to 2, in the 1951
> World Series. :-J
It would have been just as enjoyable had the "shot" never happened
and the Yanks ended up beating "Dem Bums" instead! :)
ASAAR
>> Finally, and none too soon!
>
> Hardly correct since much of the world cares not at all about baseball.
Yeah, and the camera you use is really awful, no matter what it is.
Maybe even if it's the same one that I use.
I'm afraid to tell you to "Unlax, Doc." because I don't know if
you're familiar with the "Quip heard round the world." If you
aren't, it may Bug you no end.
ray
Let me see: "shot seen round the world" tells me about the photographer.
Curious logic.
ASAAR
>> Seems to me the point was related to recognition of the photographer,
>> not the game.
>
> Let me see: "shot seen round the world" tells me about the photographer.
> Curious logic.
Not at all. The "shot" and the picture of it had all the fame it
needed or deserved. The articles that I and others pointed to were
almost entirely about the photographer who never earned a penny from
his famous photo, was finally returned to him just days before his
death, and that it will now help his sons. Since you probably
haven't read the article, I'll quote the last part of it here :
> There, 57 years after an epochal swing, miniature Giants
> and Dodgers still had not reacted to a batted ball. The old
> man took his negative home, the provenance of perhaps
> baseball's most famous image at last authenticated.
>
> On April 29, Mancuso sat on his sofa with his nephew
> Peter and Michael Santo, a lawyer and baseball fan
> offering advice pro bono, and discussed what to do with
> his precious negative. "What's money going to do for me?"
> he asked. "If the money would help my body, I would say
> alright. What am I going to do -- buy a car?" And so, true
> to his namesake Rodolfo, the poet in La Boh�me, Mancuso
> bequeathed ownership of his negative to his sons, content
> that it could provide for them. The trio discussed copyright,
> licensing and prints.
>
> On Saturday, May 9, Mancuso felt short of breath.
> Paramedics took him to St. Vincent's hospital. He died on
> Sunday, May 10, at 1 a.m.
>
> When Justin Gonzalez, a former manager at the Hotel
> Rivington, heard that the King of the LES had died, he
> started a page on Facebook for him. Dozens mourned their
> beloved old friend online and then on Bleecker Street
> where, on May 16 at the Guidetti Funeral Home, Mancuso
> shared his open casket with roses, rosary beads, his gray
> straw hat, the crook of his tiny cane, my book and two
> prints of his famous shot.
>
> Mancuso's elder son Rudy remembered to the assemblage
> through tears what, a few months prior, a friend had told
> him after speaking to his father: "Pop was worried that he
> had no legacy to leave me and my brother."
the Omrud
> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:06:47 GMT, the Omrud
> <usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>
>> tony cooper wrote:
>>> "Girting" is dancing around a member of the flonking team.
>> Ah, I see - I had forgotten the term. But the girting activity is not a
>> separate action - it's part of the game which is undertaken by the
>> current "fielding" side, as it might be in cricket or that American form
>> of rounders you play. If the Spice Grils were to take time off from
>> being Chief Scout in order to girt, then they would be Dwile Flonking
>> themselves. You may not yet have a mental image of what a match looks like.
>
> I admit to that. Readily. When I first saw the term, I thought that
> some guy named Dwile was getting a lot of action. (If you know what I
> mean. If you know what I mean. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge)
>
> That's why you need to put a Dwile Flunking team on tour. From the
> sound of it, it's not something silly like Morris Dancing. I'm sure
> Americans would take to it.
Quite likely - in case it's not obvious, I must tell you that the main
point of the game is to drink a lot of beer.
--
David
Matt Clara
news:79ll7sF1...@mid.individual.net...
a) that's been covered
b) most of what we discuss here is of little concern to the world--your
point is?
ray
My point is only that I would consider the subject to be inaccurate.
John Turco
>
> In message <250106fb-48d5-4568...@y7g2000yqa.googlegroups
> .com>, Rich <rande...@gmail.com> writes
> >On Jun 10, 9:02 pm, ASAAR <cau...@22.com> wrote:
> >> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124424737510590641.html?mod=googlenew...
> >>
> >
>
> Otherwise known as the girl's game of Rounders in the civilised world.
>
> > I thought someone had a picture of the assassination of
> >Archduke Ferdinand.
>
> Quite...
>
> Baseball, American Football and the like are relay only of interest in
> the USA. So *any* event in Baseball only has local interest.
>
> The problem is that Americans think that things that are important only
> to Americans are of global significance.
Hello, Chris:
Basketball is an American invention, which became internationally
popular. It's probably the world's most widespread team sport, in
fact.
Cordially,
John Turco <jt...@concentric.net>
John Turco
>
> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 02:51:44 -0500, John Turco wrote:
>
> > Hey, man, let's allow those poor, unfortunate Australian wretches (and
> > their countless counterparts, in other non-U.S., English-speaking nations),
> > to broaden their horizons, shall we? :-)
>
> Nah, lets just throw a few of them on the barbie. Good to see
> you've returned. Unfortunately so has the infamous Mssr. Navas.
Hello, ASAAR:
It's good to be back, although...I started posting here, again, away
back on June 1, 2009. <g>
> > Oh, well, there was >some< justice, after all...as the New York Yankees
> > defeated their crosstown rivals (the Giants), 4 games to 2, in the 1951
> > World Series. :-J
>
> It would have been just as enjoyable had the "shot" never happened
> and the Yanks ended up beating "Dem Bums" instead! :)
Those "other" New York Giants did ruin my evening, about 17 months ago.
They put on a late "rally" of their own, and dashed the New England
Patriots' dream of an unprecedented 19-0 season and Super Bowl title.
I guess that one could logically say (in this day and age of global
electronic media) Giants wide receiver David Tyree made "The Catch
Seen And Heard - And Replayed, Over And Over Again - 'Round The
World." :-P
Cordially,
John Turco <jt...@concentric.net>
ASAAR
>> It would have been just as enjoyable had the "shot" never happened
>> and the Yanks ended up beating "Dem Bums" instead! :)
>
> Those "other" New York Giants did ruin my evening, about 17 months ago.
> They put on a late "rally" of their own, and dashed the New England
> Patriots' dream of an unprecedented 19-0 season and Super Bowl title.
Did the Giants really dash the Patriot's dream, or did a certain
playboy quarterback spend too much party time before rather than
after the game?
> I guess that one could logically say (in this day and age of global
> electronic media) Giants wide receiver David Tyree made "The Catch
> Seen And Heard - And Replayed, Over And Over Again - 'Round The
> World." :-P
Is it really only global? It seems to me that if Coover got his
facts straight about the "Universal Baseball Association", football
may also be beyond global.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Universal_Baseball_Association,_Inc.,_J._Henry_Waugh,_Prop.
Chris H
<jt...@concentric.net> writes
Not compared to football
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
J. Clarke
Don't be too sure about that. Basketball of sorts can be played in a
residential driveway or a tennis court or just about anywhere else that
there's a small expanse of pavement and a place to hang a hoop. Football
(either real football or soccer) needs more space. I suspect that worldwide
you'll find that more people regularly play basketball in one variation or
another than football.
Chris H
<jclarke...@cox.net> writes
>Chris H wrote:
>Don't be too sure about that. Basketball of sorts can be played in a
>residential driveway or a tennis court or just about anywhere else that
>there's a small expanse of pavement and a place to hang a hoop. Football
>(either real football
>or soccer) needs more space. I suspect that worldwide
>you'll find that more people regularly play basketball in one variation or
>another than football.
Whilst it may be common to find basket ball hoops on the wall of a US
house it is very rare in the UK and Europe.
Kids play football in the street. In fact where I live you can see half
a dozen knock abouts in progress... none of them play basketball. It is
the same when I lived in Germany.
Basket ball, like baseball is quite uncommon outside the USA.
On a week end hundreds of thousands play football and millions watch in
the UK. Where I am we have two adult football teams and about 30 junior
teams (not counting the school teams) There *was* (but no longer) one
basketball team. So on that score football (in organised teams) out
does basketball by about 50-1
BTW Basketball is not that common in schools either, though I did play
it at one school.
It is the same when I have been in Europe. Seeing anyone play basket
ball is comparatively rare.
Lucifer Luciferase Lucent Lucid the Light and Knowledge Bringer
Technically the main game-play concept of basketball is a Mesoamerican
invention.
http://www.aztec-history.com/aztec-ball-game.html
The main difference today is that the losing team and coach isn't
sacrificed to the other team's Gods. Unless you consider their corporate
value. Though I think if they brought back this rule the game might be
worth watching. This is however unlike all Middle-East born religions
throughout history and still today that readily make human-sacrifices of
any dissimilar humans to appease their beliefs in their imaginary gods,
whether they are playing a game or not. They seem to never have any need
for any excuse to do so. Other differences: The solid 9 lb. ball used to
play ullamaliztli also couldn't touch the ground nor be touched by using
hands. It is now required to be lighter and bounced on the ground
repeatedly by hand.
Players have gone soft over the centuries.
John McWilliams
others, can you not provide real statistics?
I have no dog in this fight. I find many to most football/soccer/futball
matches irksome. Same with American beisbol.
Lacrosse is my fav., and while arguably international, it is a tiny
sport compared to any of the above.
--
john mcwilliams
Chris H
<jp...@comcast.net> writes
Simple. How many football clubs are there in the UK? (That give you
the number of active players in teams. )
What are the numbers that go to matches to watch.
What sort of estimated numbers are there that watch on TV?
Now do the same for Baseball, Basketball
BTW football is played in all schools in the UK basketball is not.
>I have no dog in this fight. I find many to most
>football/soccer/futball matches irksome. Same with American beisbol.
Likewise. My family played Rugby but I am not a fanatic.
>Lacrosse is my fav., and while arguably international, it is a tiny
>sport compared to any of the above.
Internationally it is probably bigger than baseball or basketball.
John McWilliams
> In message <h1dou9$mel$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, John McWilliams
> <jp...@comcast.net> writes
>>>
>> All of this is completely anecdotal. If you're to carry on, and same
>> for others, can you not provide real statistics?
>
> Simple. How many football clubs are there in the UK? (That give you
> the number of active players in teams. )
Er, I am aware of how statistics can be generated. I am suggesting that
those of you arguing about sports' popularity provide actual cites, from
sites, that have actual numbers, not that anyone conduct his own research.
--
john mcwilliams
J�rgen Exner
>Chris H wrote:
>> In message <4A39BF13...@concentric.net>, John Turco
>>> popular. It's probably the world's most widespread team sport, in
>>> fact.
>>
>> Not compared to football
>
>Don't be too sure about that. Basketball of sorts can be played in a
>residential driveway or a tennis court or just about anywhere else that
>there's a small expanse of pavement and a place to hang a hoop. Football
>(either real football or soccer) needs more space. I suspect that worldwide
>you'll find that more people regularly play basketball in one variation or
>another than football.
Hardly. All you need for football is just the ball, no hardware like a
hoop required. For goal posts two t-shirts or school bags will do very
well (much easier to improvise in e.g. a public park than a basketball
hoop) and a simple garage door, preferably metal, will make a perfect
goal because you will even get an audiable feedback much to the
annoyance of the neighbours..
jue
Bob Larter
Similar for cricket, which can be played by two kids, using a rubbish
bin for a wicket.
--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
Deep Reset
"Bob Larter" <bobby...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4a3aec0f$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> J�rgen Exner wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <jclarke...@cox.net> wrote:
>>> Chris H wrote:
>>>> In message <4A39BF13...@concentric.net>, John Turco
>>>>> Basketball is an American invention, which became internationally
>>>>> popular. It's probably the world's most widespread team sport, in
>>>>> fact.
>>>> Not compared to football
>>> Don't be too sure about that. Basketball of sorts can be played in a
>>> residential driveway or a tennis court or just about anywhere else that
>>> there's a small expanse of pavement and a place to hang a hoop.
>>> Football (either real football or soccer) needs more space. I suspect
>>> that worldwide you'll find that more people regularly play basketball in
>>> one variation or another than football.
>>
>> Hardly. All you need for football is just the ball, no hardware like a
>> hoop required. For goal posts two t-shirts or school bags will do very
>> well (much easier to improvise in e.g. a public park than a basketball
>> hoop) and a simple garage door, preferably metal, will make a perfect
>> goal because you will even get an audiable feedback much to the
>> annoyance of the neighbours..
>
> Similar for cricket, which can be played by two kids, using a rubbish bin
> for a wicket.
Or French cricket, which does away with the bin and uses the batsman as the
wicket, though I have to say, despite extensive travels through the country,
I have never seen the French playing it.
Chris H
<Deep...@hotmail.com> writes
>
>"Bob Larter" <bobby...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:4a3aec0f$1@d
It could of course just be an English joke that we have forgotten the
import of.
Deep Reset
"Chris H" <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote in message
news:cv8xdOAf...@phaedsys.demon.co.uk...
Like a French kiss? ;-)
John Turco
>
> On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:14:26 -0500, John Turco wrote:
>
> >> It would have been just as enjoyable had the "shot" never happened
> >> and the Yanks ended up beating "Dem Bums" instead! :)
> >
> > Those "other" New York Giants did ruin my evening, about 17 months ago.
> > They put on a late "rally" of their own, and dashed the New England
> > Patriots' dream of an unprecedented 19-0 season and Super Bowl title.
>
> Did the Giants really dash the Patriot's dream, or did a certain
> playboy quarterback spend too much party time before rather than
> after the game?
Hello, ASAAR:
Huh? Tony Romo plays for the Dallas Cowgirls, does he not? ;-)
Joking aside, if New England's offensive line had done a better job
of protecting Tom Brady - or, if the Pats' defensive line had sacked
his New York counterpart (Eli Manning), before the latter heaved
that crucial, 32-yard pass to David Tyree - nobody would've been
discussing Brady's sex life, afterward.
> > I guess that one could logically say (in this day and age of global
> > electronic media) Giants wide receiver David Tyree made "The Catch
> > Seen And Heard - And Replayed, Over And Over Again - 'Round The
> > World." :-P
>
> Is it really only global? It seems to me that if Coover got his
> facts straight about the "Universal Baseball Association", football
> may also be beyond global.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Universal_Baseball_Association,_Inc.,_J._Henry_Waugh,_Prop.
Hmmm..."universal," you say? I wonder who the Martians bet on, in
Super Bowl XLII? <g>
Cordially,
John Turco <jt...@concentric.net>
John Turco
>
> In message <4A39BF13...@concentric.net>, John Turco
<edited for brevity>
> >Basketball is an American invention, which became internationally
> >popular. It's probably the world's most widespread team sport, in
> >fact.
>
> Not compared to football
Hello, Chris:
All right...read it and weep. <g>
Wikipedia - James Naismith <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Naismith>
"Basketball is today played by more than 300 million people worldwide, making it
one of the most popular team sports.[5] In North America, basketball has produced
some of the most-admired athletes of the 20th century. Polls conducted by ESPN and
the Associated Press named basketball player Michael Jordan respectively first and
second greatest North American athlete of the 20th century, and both polls featured
fellow basketballers Wilt Chamberlain (of KU, like Naismith) and Bill Russell in the
Top 20."
Still, I've never fathomed all this shameless gushing over Michael Jordan. To me
(as well, I'd imagine, to >any< sane and impartial observer), the greatest of all
basketball players, BY FAR, was Wilt Chamberlain (1936-1999).
Wikepedia - Wilt Chamberlain
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain>
Wikepedia - List of career achievements by Wilt Chamberlain
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Career_achievements_of_Wilt_Chamberlain>
Cordially,
John Turco <jt...@concentric.net>
John Turco
<edited for brevity>
> >>> Baseball, American Football and the like are relay only of
> >>> interest in the USA. So *any* event in Baseball only has local
> >>> interest.
> >>>
> >>> The problem is that Americans think that things that are important
> >>> only to Americans are of global significance.
> >>
> >>
> >> Hello, Chris:
> >>
> >> Basketball is an American invention, which became internationally
> >> popular. It's probably the world's most widespread team sport, in
> >> fact.
> >
> > Not compared to football
>
> Don't be too sure about that. Basketball of sorts can be played in a
> residential driveway or a tennis court or just about anywhere else that
> there's a small expanse of pavement and a place to hang a hoop. Football
> (either real football or soccer) needs more space. I suspect that worldwide
> you'll find that more people regularly play basketball in one variation or
> another than football.
Hello, John:
I could hardly have stated it better, myself (and I, too, shoot "hoops" in
my driveway, sometimes).
Cordially,
John Turco <jt...@concentric.net>
John Turco
Hello, Chris:
Here is my orginal comment (which had been deleted, in subsequent
replies):
"Basketball is an American invention, which became internationally
popular. It's probably the world's most widespread team sport, in
fact."
You see, by "widespread," I'd meant that basketball is, most likely,
moderately popular (at least), in more countries, that any other
team sport.
For instance, soccer has never been very well-loved (by the general
public), here in North America; I'd guess that basketball is bigger -
in both continental Europe and Great Britain - than soccer is, in
either the U.S.A. or Canada.
Cordially,
John Turco <jt...@concentric.net>
John Turco
>
> On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:14:11 -0500, John Turco <jt...@concentric.net> wrote:
<edited for brevity>
> >Basketball is an American invention, which became internationally
> >popular. It's probably the world's most widespread team sport, in
> >fact.
> >
>
> Technically the main game-play concept of basketball is a Mesoamerican
> invention.
>
> http://www.aztec-history.com/aztec-ball-game.html
<edited>
Hello, Lucifer:
Yeah, I first heard this odd theory, during the pregame telecast of the
1973 NCAA championship game (UCLA 87, Memphis 66). However, >modern<
basketball was definitely invented in Springfield, Massachusetts
(U.S.A.), during 1891, by a Canadian named James Naismith (1861-1939).
More info:
Wikipedia - James Naismith
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Naismith>
Cordially,
John Turco <jt...@concentric.net>
PS: I'm aware that you're not a fan of Wikipedia, but, the linked
article only confirms the basic facts that I'd already learned,
long ago.
Chris H
<jt...@concentric.net> writes
>Chris H wrote:
>>
>> In message <4A39BF13...@concentric.net>, John Turco
>
><edited for brevity>
>
>> >Basketball is an American invention, which became internationally
>> >popular. It's probably the world's most widespread team sport, in
>> >fact.
>>
>> Not compared to football
>
>
>Hello, Chris:
>
>All right...read it and weep. <g>
Why? Wiki is notoriously unreliable.
Basket ball is a minority sport outside the USA. It is hardly played in
many countries
Football is the national sport of many nations. It is played where every
there is something kickable. I have not see a country that does not
play football and it is the normal first choice for kids everywhere.
Chris H
<jt...@concentric.net> writes
This is patently not true... I suggest you travel a bit. You will rarely
see basketball played outside the USA. Football on the other hand is on
every street corner.
>For instance, soccer has never been very well-loved (by the general
>public), here in North America;
True
>I'd guess that basketball is bigger -
>in both continental Europe and Great Britain - than soccer is, in
>either the U.S.A. or Canada.
Completely false. Basketball is probably less played than any other team
sport in Europe, Africa, Asia etc. Football (soccer) is usually the
first choice. Travel a bit and you will see what I mean.
You may have seen hoops in UK schools but this is for the girls game of
netball. IT is amusing that both basketball (netball) and baseball
(rounders) are girls games outside the USA
Ask anyone outside the USA and they will tell you there are always a few
kids playing football on the street or in the park. For football you
only need one and something to kick.
In fact the US invention of skate boarding is more popular in Europe
than basketball.
Chris H
<jt...@concentric.net> writes
>Chris H wrote:
>>
>> In message <4A39BF13...@concentric.net>, John Turco
>
><edited for brevity>
>
>> >Basketball is an American invention, which became internationally
>> >popular. It's probably the world's most widespread team sport, in
>> >fact.
>>
>> Not compared to football
>
>
>Hello, Chris:
>
>All right...read it and weep. <g>
>
> Wikipedia - James Naismith <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Naismith>
>
> "Basketball is today played by more than 300 million people worldwide,
>making it
> one of the most popular team sports.[5] In North America, basketball
Not that reference [5] does not exist... Do you have anything else?
That number of 300 million seems some what high.
Http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_football
Association football, more commonly known as football or soccer, is a
team sport played between two teams of eleven players, and is widely
considered to be the most popular sport in the world
^ "Team Sports". Catastrophic Injuries in High School and College
Sports. Champaign: Human Kinetics. pp. p57. ISBN 0873226747. "Soccer is
the most popular sport in the world, and its popularity is growing in
the United States. It has been estimated that there were 22 million
soccer players in the world in the early 1980s, and that number is
increasing. In the United States soccer is now a major sport at both the
high school and college levels"
^ Dunning, Eric. "The development of soccer as a world game". Sport
Matters: Sociological Studies of Sport, Violence and Civilisation.
London: Routledge. pp. p103. ISBN 0415064139. "During the twentieth
century, soccer emerged as the world's most popular team sport"
^ Guttman, Allen. "The Diffusion of Sports and the Problem of Cultural
Imperialism". in Eric Dunning, Joseph A. Maguire, Robert E. Pearton. The
Sports Process: A Comparative and Developmental Approach. Champaign:
Human Kinetics. pp. p129. ISBN 0880116242. "the game is complex enough
not to be invented independently by many preliterate cultures and yet
simple enough to become the world's most popular team sport"
^ Blain, Rebecca. "The World's Most Beloved Sport - The History of
Soccer". fussballportal.de. Archived from the original on 2009-06-06.
http://web.archive.org/web/20071230053134/http://germany2006.fussballpor
tal.de/history.php. Retrieved on 2007-10-07.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football_clubs
of course if you add in Rugby (union and league) Australian rules etc
each of which are globally larger than basketball you will see that
outside the USA basketball is relatively unknown rather than the worlds
most popular sport. You only have to look at the membership of the Man-U
fan club. 97% of it is outside the UK...
Put it another way... you will not find a non US news channel that does
not mention football at least once a day. They may mention basketball
once a year if you are lucky.
Where, apart from the USA is basketball any more than a minority sport?
Football is the national sport of many countries.
Chris H
<jt...@concentric.net> writes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football_clubs
Put it another way... you will not find a non US news channel that does
not mention football at least once a day. They may mention basketball
once a year if you are lucky.
Chris H
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football_clubs
John Turco
>
> In message <4A3F3E7C...@concentric.net>, John Turco
> <jt...@concentric.net> writes
> >Chris H wrote:
> >>
> >> In message <4A39BF13...@concentric.net>, John Turco
> >
> ><edited for brevity>
> >
> >> >Basketball is an American invention, which became internationally
> >> >popular. It's probably the world's most widespread team sport, in
> >> >fact.
> >>
> >> Not compared to football
> >
> >
> >Hello, Chris:
> >
> >All right...read it and weep. <g>
>
> Why? Wiki is notoriously unreliable.
Hello, Chris:
It >is<? Then, why did you, yourself, quote Wikipedia, in a later post?
> Basket ball is a minority sport outside the USA. It is hardly played in
> many countries
That's a very dubious claim.
> Football is the national sport of many nations. It is played where every
> there is something kickable. I have not see a country that does not
> play football and it is the normal first choice for kids everywhere.
You've answered three of my other responses, within this thread; but, this
shall be my sole reply.
Suffice to say, basketball and soccer are both quite popular, worldwide.
However, in the U.S.A., "gridiron" type football is king, currently -- and
ice hockey has long been Canada's "national sport."
In these respects, North America may be an "anomaly," as you're previously
stated. Albeit, that doesn't diminish its worthiness, or that of the NFL
or NHL, in any way.
Cordially,
John Turco <jt...@concentric.net>
Chris H
<jt...@concentric.net> writes
>Chris H wrote:
>>
>> In message <4A3F3E7C...@concentric.net>, John Turco
>> <jt...@concentric.net> writes
>> >Chris H wrote:
>> >>
>> >> In message <4A39BF13...@concentric.net>, John Turco
>> >
>> ><edited for brevity>
>> >
>> >> >Basketball is an American invention, which became internationally
>> >> >popular. It's probably the world's most widespread team sport, in
>> >> >fact.
>> >>
>> >> Not compared to football
>> >
>> >
>> >Hello, Chris:
>> >
>> >All right...read it and weep. <g>
>>
>> Why? Wiki is notoriously unreliable.
>
>Hello, Chris:
>
>It >is<? Then, why did you, yourself, quote Wikipedia, in a later post?
IT was one of several quotes but the point was my wiki page was mutually
exclusive to yours... one of them had to be wrong. This is why I also
put in a lot of other cites.
>> Basket ball is a minority sport outside the USA. It is hardly played in
>> many countries
>
>That's a very dubious claim.
I posted the cites to back it up. Having travelled on 4 continents and
many countries with friends who have travelled on 6 contents I know it
to be true.
I do not know of a country outside N.America where there basketball or
baseball is plying in significant numbers compared to football.
>> Football is the national sport of many nations. It is played where every
>> there is something kickable. I have not see a country that does not
>> play football and it is the normal first choice for kids everywhere.
>
>You've answered three of my other responses, within this thread; but, this
>shall be my sole reply.
>
>Suffice to say, basketball and soccer are both quite popular, worldwide.
>However, in the U.S.A., "gridiron" type football is king, currently -- and
>ice hockey has long been Canada's "national sport."
Whereas the national sport of very many countries is football.
>In these respects, North America may be an "anomaly," as you're previously
>stated.
It is. In my experience most Americans take what they see in the USA and
extrapolate it world wide. Whereas in fact most of the time the US is an
anomoly and the rest of the world (which is a bit larger than the USA
:-) is different.
> Albeit, that doesn't diminish its worthiness, or that of the NFL
>or NHL, in any way.
Only in N. America outside N.America it is a minority (or non-existant)
sport.
I would bet that there is more soccer played in the USA than American
Football (or basball or basketball) is played outside the USA.
ASAAR
>> Basket ball is a minority sport outside the USA. It is hardly played in
>> many countries
>
> That's a very dubious claim.
> . . .
>
> Suffice to say, basketball and soccer are both quite popular, worldwide.
If basketball wasn't so popular, worldwide, NBA teams wouldn't
have signed so many players from so many countries, worldwide.
Even extremely good athletes won't attain the necessary skills
unless they spend many years developing their skills by playing at a
relatively high level in a large talent pool. The development of
that skill requires much more than a backyard basketball net.
Savageduck
> In message <4A445D01...@concentric.net>, John Turco
> <jt...@concentric.net> writes
>> Chris H wrote:
>>>
>>> In message <4A3F3E7C...@concentric.net>, John Turco
>>> <jt...@concentric.net> writes
>>>> Chris H wrote:
>>>>> ----------------<Le Snip>------------------
>> You've answered three of my other responses, within this thread; but, this
>> shall be my sole reply.
>>
>> Suffice to say, basketball and soccer are both quite popular, worldwide.
>> However, in the U.S.A., "gridiron" type football is king, currently -- and
>> ice hockey has long been Canada's "national sport."
>
> Whereas the national sport of very many countries is football.
>
>
>> In these respects, North America may be an "anomaly," as you're previously
>> stated.
>
> It is. In my experience most Americans take what they see in the USA and
> extrapolate it world wide. Whereas in fact most of the time the US is an
> anomoly and the rest of the world (which is a bit larger than the USA
> :-) is different.
>
>
>> Albeit, that doesn't diminish its worthiness, or that of the NFL
>> or NHL, in any way.
>
> Only in N. America outside N.America it is a minority (or non-existant)
> sport.
>
> I would bet that there is more soccer played in the USA than American
> Football (or basball or basketball) is played outside the USA.
If any of you have been following the Confederations Cup, you might
have noticed this Semi-Final result; USA 2 : Spain 0.
http://www.sportingnews.com/soccer/article/2009-06-24/us-stuns-spain-confederations-cup-semis
--
Regards,
Savageduck
PDM
>> >> >Basketball is an American invention, which became internationally
>> >> >popular. It's probably the world's most widespread team sport, in
>> >> >fact.
Is basketball an American invention? It's been around in the UK for a very
very long time but under the name of netball. The rules are basically the
same. Ditto baseball, in UK called rounders.
PDM
John McWilliams
> I would bet that there is more soccer played in the USA than American
> Football (or basball or basketball) is played outside the USA.
While I'd take that bet, who bloody cares? Soccer/football is an effete
game, played by cheaters.
If you have interesting photos of the game being played, OTOH, I'd like
to see them.
--
john mcwilliams
Chris H
<jp...@comcast.net> writes
>Chris H wrote:
>
>> I would bet that there is more soccer played in the USA than American
>> Football (or basball or basketball) is played outside the USA.
>
>While I'd take that bet, who bloody cares? Soccer/football is an effete
>game, played by cheaters.
Can't argue with that. My family play rugby
>If you have interesting photos of the game being played, OTOH, I'd like
>to see them.
Used to have a web site full of then. I did the team web site for
several years.
Chris H
letethisbit].invalid> writes
As played by girls.
I prefer Rugby... it's like American football but for men. I.e. no
armour and only 3 substitutions. Not separate teams for offence and
defence.
J. Clarke
James Naismith is credited with inventing it in 1891, while working at the
YMCA in Springfield, MA. There is now a large basketball museum in
Springfield called the "Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame". He
supposedly had a specific set of objectives in the design of the game,
related specifically to the needs of that particular Y at that particular
time--I doubt that he expected it to become as popular as it did.
According to wikipedia, Netball was derived from basketball in 1895 as a
women't version, suitable for playing while wearing the womens' clothing of
the time, and seems to be a rather different game in some important
particulars.
Allen
> In message <4a44e863$1...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>, PDM <pdcm99@[de
> letethisbit].invalid> writes
>>>>>>> Basketball is an American invention, which became internationally
>>>>>>> popular. It's probably the world's most widespread team sport, in
>>>>>>> fact.
>> Is basketball an American invention? It's been around in the UK for a very
>> very long time but under the name of netball. The rules are basically the
>> same. Ditto baseball, in UK called rounders.
>
> As played by girls.
>
> I prefer Rugby... it's like American football but for men. I.e. no
> armour and only 3 substitutions. Not separate teams for offence and
> defence.
>
>
>
must continue your blathering. A case in point: I have seen many BBC
imports that have had women who played rugby. And American football,
over the years, has had many different rules about substitution.
Allen
Allen
divided into three sections. I believe that two players, whose "home"
section was the middle, could move to any sections. The others were
divided in twos, one duo playing in one end section, but permitted to
move to the middle, the other duo allowed only in the opposite end and
the middle. Oh, and the uniforms--ridiculous! I'm just trying to state
how she described it--I can't vouch for total accuracy.
Allen
tony cooper
wrote:
My wife, who is a fraction of an inch over five feet - has a trophy
from playing basketball in high school in 1956. She played guard, but
the guard could move only one foot when she had the basketball. She
could move around in a zone when she didn't have the ball, but not
after it was passed to her. Game scores seldom exceed 40 points with
both team's score combined. Sometimes the score was like 12 to 8.
The hoop height was the same as in men's ball.
Uniform was gym shorts and a gym blouse.
On the subject of netball in the UK...this website indicates that
basketball was brought to the UK in 1895; four years after basketball
was started in the US. But it was a slightly different game than
basketball.
http://www.englandnetball.co.uk/About_Us/History_of_England_Netball.php
On the subject of rounders...there's no doubt that rounders is an
ancestor of baseball as it is played today in the US, but it's a
different game in many respects. Just because a ball, a bat, and
bases are used in both sports does not mean that it's the same game.
Rounders evolved from stoolball, and - if you keep going backwards in
time - some caveman probably threw a rock at another caveman who
deflected the rock with a stick. The champion caveman rock deflector
probably chewed some plant that bulked him up. The best caveman rock
thrower was Og the Drooler who slathered his rock with drool to put a
little hop on it.
Football - the game we call "soccer" in the US - is a very popular
sport in Europe. It's a great game for people with a limited
attention span because you really don't have to know what is going on
on the field. The players just mill around kicking the ball this way
and that way until someone accidently kicks the ball into one of the
nets. This often happens once or twice during a complete game.
American football is a game of set plays intended to advance the ball
in a particular direction. Because of the variety of set plays that
can be called, this allows for some excitement during the game. In
European football, the excitement is all concentrated at the end of
the game when all of the fans exit the stadium though one gate and
over each other's bodies.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
PDM
> sport in Europe. It's a great game for people with a limited
> attention span because you really don't have to know what is going on
> on the field. The players just mill around kicking the ball this way
> and that way until someone accidently kicks the ball into one of the
> nets. This often happens once or twice during a complete game.
>
> American football is a game of set plays intended to advance the ball
> in a particular direction. Because of the variety of set plays that
> can be called, this allows for some excitement during the game. In
> European football, the excitement is all concentrated at the end of
> the game when all of the fans exit the stadium though one gate and
> over each other's bodies.
>
> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
What rubbish. Of course soccer is skillful. It requires just the same amount
of pre-planning and working our plays/tactics etc as American football. You
don't understand the game. I don't particularly like either game, but if I
had a choice which to watch it would be soccer. It's more of an action game.
My game is 10 pin bowling (or was until an injury, now had to be content
with the Wii version). It's wrong of you to think of soccer as European
football; think more of the rest of the world football.
PDM