Nikon determined to obsolete old lenses
RichA
other brand lenses (Leica) on their products and others allowing focus
confirmation and image stabilization with any lens brand, Nikon seems
to be going the opposite way, making it as hard to use legacy Nikon
lenses on new products as possible. Note the specs on this new one.
No AF motor. Which means it likely won't meter with the old manual
lenses either. Only newer Nikkors will function.
D7000
• Replaces D90/D5000.
• Announcement in Jan/Feb 2010.
• 14MP* CMOS sensor (similar to Sony A550 sensor).
• No* AF motor.
• New* AF module: CAM2000, 20 area.
• 5 FPS.
• Live View & 1080* video.
• Articulated 920K LCD.
• OVF same as D90.
• Weight and size below D90 “thanks” to the removal of the AF motor.
Chris H
s.com>, RichA <rande...@gmail.com> writes
>With some manufacturers even providing adapters (Panasonic) to use
>other brand lenses (Leica) on their products and others allowing focus
>confirmation and image stabilization with any lens brand, Nikon seems
>to be going the opposite way, making it as hard to use legacy Nikon
>lenses on new products as possible. Note the specs on this new one.
>No AF motor. Which means it likely won't meter with the old manual
>lenses either. Only newer Nikkors will function.
Given that Nikon have used the same mount for 50 years and AFAIK all the
Nikon Lenses fit all Nikon Cameras. They have a greater or lesser amount
of electrical capability and are only a couple of exceptions where it
should not be done.
Nikon have such a wide range of lenses and are brining out new ones
(with VR, greater ranges, faster, lighter etc) to work with the newer
bodies I am not sure you need full compatibility with all the Nikon
lenses of the last century.
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Bruce
wrote:
>With some manufacturers even providing adapters (Panasonic) to use
>other brand lenses (Leica) on their products and others allowing focus
>confirmation and image stabilization with any lens brand, Nikon seems
>to be going the opposite way, making it as hard to use legacy Nikon
>lenses on new products as possible. Note the specs on this new one.
>No AF motor. Which means it likely won't meter with the old manual
>lenses either. Only newer Nikkors will function.
Tell us something new. Nikon has been doing this for years, starting
with film camera bodies that don't allow TTL metering with manual
focus lenses. This "feature" started with the entry-level N4004
(F401) 35mm SLR that was introduced in 1987, and reached the
prosumer-level N80 (F80) 35mm SLR in 2000.
You could even argue that the "feature" started even earlier, with the
entry-level Nikon EM of 1979 not accepting pre-AI lenses, however
Nikon did offer a comprehensive service to update pre-AI lenses with
new AI-enabled aperture rings.
Those (D)SLR buyers who need compatibility with their legacy Nikkors
can always buy a more expensive camera body. Just as those who
rejected the N4004 could choose the N8008 (F801), those rejecting the
D7000 can choose a D300, or one of several older DSLRs that include a
focusing motor in the camera body.
Let's not forget that even legacy AF Nikkors without the "Silent Wave"
AF-S motor can be used in all exposure modes on the D7000 but need to
be focused manually.
So I say again, tell us something new. ;-)
Bowser
wrote:
>With some manufacturers even providing adapters (Panasonic) to use
I'm surprised it took Nikon all this time to learn what Canon learned
by going to the EOS/EF mount. But hey, if their latest DSLRs are any
indication, they learn slow, but they learn good.
nospam
<c0695b63-992a-460a...@e37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
> With some manufacturers even providing adapters (Panasonic) to use
> other brand lenses (Leica) on their products and others allowing focus
> confirmation and image stabilization with any lens brand, Nikon seems
> to be going the opposite way, making it as hard to use legacy Nikon
> lenses on new products as possible. Note the specs on this new one.
> No AF motor. Which means it likely won't meter with the old manual
> lenses either. Only newer Nikkors will function.
wrong. almost all nikon lenses will work, and any lens with a cpu in it
will meter. few people who buy a new dslr care about using old manual
focus lenses. the d40 was the first to drop the internal motor and it
was one of the best selling dslrs ever.
Bruce
>
>I'm surprised it took Nikon all this time to learn what Canon learned
>by going to the EOS/EF mount.
It's true that Nikon was slow to adopt AF. Initially, Nikon chose the
screwdriver drive system that was slow and heavy.
But it was not very long before the first AF-I Nikkors were
introduced, and these were soon followed by AF-S lenses with the
"Silent Wave" focusing motors that were fast and near-silent in
operation - very much the equal of Canon's USM range.
The problem was, Nikon did not have access to the technology other
than by paying expensive royalties to the patent holders, who in this
case happened to be Canon. That was a disincentive to the wider and
cheaper availability of AF-S lenses. Now those patents have expired,
Nikon is moving more rapidly to an all-AF-S lens line, including
inexpensive entry-level lenses.
>But hey, if their latest DSLRs are any
>indication, they learn slow, but they learn good.
After years of dominance, it is strange to see Canon playing catch-up.
Rich
news:4x1YK4F2...@phaedsys.demon.co.uk:
> In message <c0695b63-992a-460a...@e37g2000yqn.googlegroup
> s.com>, RichA <rande...@gmail.com> writes
>>With some manufacturers even providing adapters (Panasonic) to use
>>other brand lenses (Leica) on their products and others allowing focus
>>confirmation and image stabilization with any lens brand, Nikon seems
>>to be going the opposite way, making it as hard to use legacy Nikon
>>lenses on new products as possible. Note the specs on this new one.
>>No AF motor. Which means it likely won't meter with the old manual
>>lenses either. Only newer Nikkors will function.
>
> Given that Nikon have used the same mount for 50 years and AFAIK all the
> Nikon Lenses fit all Nikon Cameras. They have a greater or lesser amount
> of electrical capability and are only a couple of exceptions where it
> should not be done.
>
> Nikon have such a wide range of lenses and are brining out new ones
> (with VR, greater ranges, faster, lighter etc) to work with the newer
> bodies I am not sure you need full compatibility with all the Nikon
> lenses of the last century.
>
Need? No. Desire? Yes. It's a "class" thing. Own a D300 or better, no
problem, own a lesser Nikon, you are prevented from using 90% of the glass
they've ever produced.
Rich
nos...@nospam.invalid:
Work? Sure. But how well? No metering with most Nikon glass existing
out there, and no AF on AF lenses made before a specific time. The
average buyer of an entry level Nikon may well find out about old glass,
but they are unlikely to want to deal with the use restrictions imposed
by the body. Meanwhile, Canon, Pentax, Olympus and even Sony to a degree
can use old glass, from MANY manufacturers whereas Nikon users are stuck
with only new, Nikon glass and some mediocre aftermarket sources like
Sigma. I've used manual Nikkors on a D40/50, no metering, but I can live
with it by guestimating the exposure, taking a shot, them compensating
after seeing the initial image on the LCD, the effort doesn't bother me
because I know how to deal with it. How many users of entry-level Nikons
would put up with that?
J�rgen Exner
> Meanwhile, Canon, Pentax, Olympus and even Sony to a degree
>can use old glass,
Canon? Really? That will be news to most people. Did you ever try
mounting a Canon FD lens on a Canon dSLR?
> from MANY manufacturers whereas Nikon users are stuck
>with only new, Nikon glass and some mediocre aftermarket sources like
>Sigma.
Actually you can use virtually _any_ Nikon F-mount with aperture index
on a modern Nikon dSLR camera. Maybe not on the entry-level bodies, but
opposite to Canon at least there is some way to use your old Nikkor
glass with full functionality if you really want to.
> I've used manual Nikkors on a D40/50, no metering, but I can live
>with it by guestimating the exposure, taking a shot, them compensating
>after seeing the initial image on the LCD, the effort doesn't bother me
>because I know how to deal with it. How many users of entry-level Nikons
>would put up with that?
The real question is: how many would possibly care about it?
jue
Bruce
Prevented from using? Nonsense!
All AF Nikkors will work in all exposure modes. You need to focus
them manually, that's all.
Probably 90% of buyers will buy the camera with one or two new kit
lenses, all of which are AF-S Nikkors and therefore 100% compatible.
Paul Furman
> With some manufacturers even providing adapters (Panasonic) to use
> other brand lenses (Leica) on their products and others allowing focus
> confirmation and image stabilization with any lens brand, Nikon seems
> to be going the opposite way, making it as hard to use legacy Nikon
> lenses on new products as possible.
The D90 it replaces is the same. Nothing new here. The motor is out to
make the body smaller & more affordable. If you want a focus motor, get
a D300, D200, D80, D70, D50, D3 or D700.
> Note the specs on this new one.
> No AF motor. Which means it likely won't meter with the old manual
> lenses either. Only newer Nikkors will function.
>
> D7000
> � Replaces D90/D5000.
> � Announcement in Jan/Feb 2010.
> � 14MP* CMOS sensor (similar to Sony A550 sensor).
> � No* AF motor.
> � New* AF module: CAM2000, 20 area.
> � 5 FPS.
> � Live View & 1080* video.
> � Articulated 920K LCD.
> � OVF same as D90.
> � Weight and size below D90 �thanks� to the removal of the AF motor.
--
Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com
all google groups messages filtered due to spam
clw
J?rgen Exner <jurg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Rich <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > I've used manual Nikkors on a D40/50, no metering, but I can live
> >with it by guestimating the exposure, taking a shot, them compensating
> >after seeing the initial image on the LCD, the effort doesn't bother me
> >because I know how to deal with it. How many users of entry-level Nikons
> >would put up with that?
>
> The real question is: how many would possibly care about it?
I have and still use a very old exposure meter occasionally for getting
the correct exposure in shaded areas or for portraits.
And, talk about entry level, I use a D-50.
Neil Harrington
> With some manufacturers even providing adapters (Panasonic) to use
> other brand lenses (Leica) on their products and others allowing focus
> confirmation and image stabilization with any lens brand, Nikon seems
> to be going the opposite way, making it as hard to use legacy Nikon
> lenses on new products as possible. Note the specs on this new one.
Seems reasonable to me. How many years has it been since Nikon produced a
new lens that didn't have the AF motor built in? I think the 10.5 fisheye
was the last one that required AF motor in the body, and that was over six
years ago. Why then keep saddling enthusiast-level bodies with the extra
weight, size and cost of what is really an inferior AF system that most
buyers will never use anyway? For those few who do want it, there will
always be plenty of older bodies available.
Bowser
wrote:
Not for me. Canon's first DSLRs were behind the Nikons, as well. These
things leap frog all the time, which is good for me. I love watching
the "switching" people jump from one to the other in the hopes that a
different name on the prism will suddenly turn them into Ansel
Scavullo.
Bruce
>On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 16:47:06 +0000, Bruce <docne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>Not for me. Canon's first DSLRs were behind the Nikons, as well.
That's true. There was quite a gap between Nikon's D1 and the Canon
EOS 1D, although both Canon and Nikon were involved with earlier Kodak
based DSLRs which sold in penny numbers at astronomical prices.
>These things leap frog all the time, which is good for me. I love watching
>the "switching" people jump from one to the other in the hopes that a
>different name on the prism will suddenly turn them into Ansel
>Scavullo.
I have no need to switch. I have a Nikon D700 and a Canon EOS 5D (the
original 12 MP model). My Nikkors fit both camera bodies, I just need
a simple adapter to use them on the 5D.
This gives me time to choose what to replace the 5D with. It still
has plenty of life left in it. My first 5D was replaced by the D700.
Michael Schnell
> The D90 it replaces is the same. Nothing new here. The motor is out to
> make the body smaller & more affordable. If you want a focus motor, get
> a D300, D200, D80, D70, D50, D3 or D700.
I suppose the future non-pro bodies (Dnn and Dnnnn) might have no AF
motor, while the pro Models (Dn) will have it.
But what about the semi-pros (Dnnn), e.g. a potential successor to the
D700 ?
-Michael
Michael Schnell
> The D90 it replaces is the same. Nothing new here. The motor is out to
> make the body smaller & more affordable. If you want a focus motor, get
> a D300, D200, D80, D70, D50, D3 or D700.
I suppose the future non-pro bodies (Dnn and Dnnnn) might have no AF
Michael Schnell
> All AF Nikkors will work in all exposure modes. You need to focus
> them manually, that's all.
>
Quite impossible with Sport events (here: Horse-Sport).
-Michael
J. Clarke
So how _did_ photographers shoot "Horse-Sport" before there was such a thing
as autofocus?
Apteryx
That is the only thing that worries me about the news. I am hoping the
D400 (replacement for the D300) will still have a focus motor.
Apteryx
Bruce
Of course!
No-one ever photographed sports before autofocus lenses became
available, did they.
Fool. ;-)
Neil Harrington
"Rich" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:laSdncO-v6GxKKrW...@giganews.com...
The vast majority of which you would probably never be using on a new Nikon
anyway.
But there's actually an advantage to this arrangement that you are
overlooking, or perhaps unaware of. I'm assuming here that the new D7000
will have the same electronic rangefinder that the D60 and D3000 have (which
seems a safe assumption). This works very well, and since it does not
require a CPU lens to work it should make most of the old manual focus
lenses much more useful than they have been on earlier Nikon DSLRs.
Personally I think abandoning the out-of-date and increasingly useless AF
motor in the camera body is a good idea. It will reduce size, weight and
cost. I have a few of the older lenses myself, the 50/1.8, the 85/1.8 and
the 10.5 fisheye (which I think was the last Nikkor that required the
mechanical coupling), but I also have bodies up to the D80 and D200 to suit
them, which I expect to keep for many years at least, maybe forever.
I have no doubt that Nikon will keep making bodies like the D200, D300 and
its successors with the mechanical coupling, for those whose older lenses
are so important to them that they simply must have it. And older Nikons
with it will still be available used, and even new or near-new, in very
large numbers for a very long time to come. There are still brand-new D100s
showing up on eBay from time to time, and that was by today's standards a
relatively low-production camera.
There is no good reason to keep burdening new buyers of moderate-priced,
enthusiast-level cameras with an obsolete type of mechanism that the
overwhelming majority of them will never have any use for. I think the D7000
as described sounds like a wonderful idea and I am very much looking forward
to it.
Wolfgang Weisselberg
> Michael Schnell wrote:
>> Quite impossible with Sport events (here: Horse-Sport).
> So how _did_ photographers shoot "Horse-Sport" before there was such a thing
> as autofocus?
Much less, and much less successfully (exploiting the 'quite'),
except, perhaps, for the finishing photo in races.
How many usable horseball, polo and fox hunting shots per event
used to turn up before AF?
-Wolfgang
Whoo-boy! They just get more and more psychotic!
I don't know. Why don't you find them all, count them, then provide
irrefutable proof. For anything you ever post, just like this wild
imagining of yours to try to support something that only exists in your
basement-trapped mind.
Wolfgang Weisselberg
> I don't know. Why don't you find them all, count them, then provide
> irrefutable proof.
Do your own homework, lazy bum!
plonk!
-Wolfgang