Re: When Did Detroit Start Building Cars Like Japanese dSLRs????
Michael
> Tried to do the first oil change on my new Lincoln MKX AWD today and boy
> was I in for a big surprise! Bought a Fram PH3600 as the book suggests.
> Sure enough, I tried to screw the new filter on and FUCK!! The FUCKEN'
> thing doesn't fit. It seems the original filter has Mexican threads and
> the Fram isn't compatible. Tried two auto parts stores and no go! An oil
> filter a dealer item? FUCK YES!!! I can expect this proprietary crap
> from Nikon and Canon, but Ford/Lincoln? At least with Nikon and Canon
> they let you buy aftermarket batteries.
>
> Well, I had enough of Mexican made assembled in America pieces of shit!
> FUCK Detroit and the union slobs, I'll be buying Mercedes this spring, a
> GL350. Obama made a big mistake bailing out GM and Chrysler!
Except that Lincoln is made by Ford and that's the one company that
DIDN'T need a bailout.
--
Michael
David Ruether
"Larry Thong" <larry...@shitstring.com> wrote in message news:yPSdndov5ssc12rX...@supernews.com...
> Tried to do the first oil change on my new Lincoln MKX AWD today and boy
> was I in for a big surprise! Bought a Fram PH3600 as the book suggests.
> Sure enough, I tried to screw the new filter on and FUCK!! The FUCKEN'
> thing doesn't fit. It seems the original filter has Mexican threads and
> the Fram isn't compatible. Tried two auto parts stores and no go! An oil
> filter a dealer item? FUCK YES!!! I can expect this proprietary crap
> from Nikon and Canon, but Ford/Lincoln? At least with Nikon and Canon
> they let you buy aftermarket batteries.
>
> Well, I had enough of Mexican made assembled in America pieces of shit!
> FUCK Detroit and the union slobs, I'll be buying Mercedes this spring, a
> GL350. Obama made a big mistake bailing out GM and Chrysler!
A doctor friend of mine bought one of those Mercedes "pocket SUVs",
and soon after, the rear struts needed replacing. About $6,000 later,
he sold it. Another friend had a Mercedes and the alternator gave out.
Could he just buy the brushes and repair it himself? No. He bought a
new alternator, then sold the car...
Jes' sayin', yuh no...;-)
--DR
Noons
> FUCK Detroit and the union slobs, I'll be buying Mercedes this spring, a
> GL350.
I sympathise, but if you think Mercs don't suffer from this proprietaty stuff...
ransley
> Tried to do the first oil change on my new Lincoln MKX AWD today and boy
> was I in for a big surprise! Bought a Fram PH3600 as the book suggests.
> Sure enough, I tried to screw the new filter on and FUCK!! The FUCKEN'
> thing doesn't fit. It seems the original filter has Mexican threads and
> the Fram isn't compatible. Tried two auto parts stores and no go! An oil
> filter a dealer item? FUCK YES!!! I can expect this proprietary crap
> from Nikon and Canon, but Ford/Lincoln? At least with Nikon and Canon
> they let you buy aftermarket batteries.
>
> Well, I had enough of Mexican made assembled in America pieces of shit!
This has exacly what to do with photography and why would anybody with
a new 50000 car be changing and disposing of oil. What bs
Bill Graham
> was I in for a big surprise! Bought a Fram PH3600 as the book suggests.
> Sure enough, I tried to screw the new filter on and FUCK!! The FUCKEN'
> thing doesn't fit. It seems the original filter has Mexican threads and
> the Fram isn't compatible. Tried two auto parts stores and no go! An oil
> filter a dealer item? FUCK YES!!! I can expect this proprietary crap
> from Nikon and Canon, but Ford/Lincoln? At least with Nikon and Canon
> they let you buy aftermarket batteries.
>
> Well, I had enough of Mexican made assembled in America pieces of shit!
> FUCK Detroit and the union slobs, I'll be buying Mercedes this spring, a
> GL350. Obama made a big mistake bailing out GM and Chrysler!
This is why I abandoned the US auto manufacturers about 30 years ago. I have
owned nothing but Subaru's for the last 12 years. I have one with 150
thousand miles on it, and it only quit once, when the speed sending unit on
the transmission failed. And even then, it still ran, but didn't run right,
so we had to replace the part ASAP.
(PeteCresswell)
>This is why I abandoned the US auto manufacturers about 30 years ago. I have
>owned nothing but Subaru's for the last 12 years. I have one with 150
>thousand miles on it, and it only quit once, when the speed sending unit on
>the transmission failed. And even then, it still ran, but didn't run right,
>so we had to replace the part ASAP.
I've got a Chevy Suburban: first (and probably the last...) new
car I've ever owned. Might buy another GM product, but it would
only be because I couldn't find anything else with the ergonomics
for my right-of-the-bell-curve body dimensions.
Before the 'burb it was a series of beaters.
The 'burb has stranded me more times (six) than all the beaters
put together (one). Google "4L60E valve body" and you'll get a
little glimpse....
One story I've heard - that rings true to me - is that American
auto companies tend to be run by business school graduates, while
Japanese auto companies tend tb run by engineers.
--
PeteCresswell
Bill Graham
"ransley" <Mark_R...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9b73d4af-d28b-4ecc...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
I'll tell you why. I bought a new Hyundai around 20 years ago. Before I went
on a 1200 mile trip with it, I had the local Chrysler dealer (who serviced
them then) change the transmission oil. They forgot to refill the oil in the
manual transmission, and I drove the car 600 miles the next day on a "dry"
transmission. If failed the next morning when I backed it out of my friends
driveway. If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself, (or, at
least supervise it yourself) especially when you are dealing with American,
(big three) auto mechanics.
Bill Graham
"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote in message
news:ukqef59m5khcvb1eg...@4ax.com...
All of my life, Detroit built what they wanted to build, and then hired
Madison Avenue people to get the buying public to think they wanted it. The
Japanese polled the public to find out what they wanted, and then built it.
This is the main philosophical difference between the two, and it is the
reason why I now buy strictly Japanese. (Although I was very pleased with my
BMW K-100 motorcycle.)
Larry Thong
> I'll be buying Mercedes this spring
>
> Read user experiences in this forum first:
> http://www.mercedes-benz-usa.com/
>
> Post 1980s MBs are one of the biggest marketing cons thrown at US
> consumers.
OUCH! Thanks for the link as I never knew this.
Larry Thong
>> Well, I had enough of Mexican made assembled in America pieces of shit!
>> FUCK Detroit and the union slobs, I'll be buying Mercedes this spring, a
>> GL350. Obama made a big mistake bailing out GM and Chrysler!
>
> This has exacly what to do with photography and why would anybody with
> a new 50000 car be changing and disposing of oil. What bs
Well, I did take a picture of it with the trusty old D3 and 28-70/2.8
Nikkor, buy decided against posting it because the car is dirty and
those 20" wheels aren't shiny.
Larry Thong
> If you want it done right, you
> have to do it yourself, (or, at least supervise it yourself) especially
> when you are dealing with American, (big three) auto mechanics.
You got it! I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty. The one and only
time I was too lazy to get my dead ass under the car was during a cold
winter's day many years back and took it to Jiffy Lube. They forgot to
add oil. Thankfully, I did check everything prior to driving off their
lot. I had a crowd gathering with my yelling. They offered a years
supply of free oil changes. Yeah, like I would trust them ever again?
Savageduck
> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 18:23:20 -0500, David Ruether wrote:
>
>>> Well, I had enough of Mexican made assembled in America pieces of shit!
>>> FUCK Detroit and the union slobs, I'll be buying Mercedes this spring,
>>> a GL350. Obama made a big mistake bailing out GM and Chrysler!
>>
>> A doctor friend of mine bought one of those Mercedes "pocket SUVs", and
>> soon after, the rear struts needed replacing. About $6,000 later, he
>> sold it. Another friend had a Mercedes and the alternator gave out.
>> Could he just buy the brushes and repair it himself? No. He bought a new
>> alternator, then sold the car...
>> Jes' sayin', yuh no...;-)
>
> That's just it, I don't know what these exact parts will cost me from the
> Lincoln dealer.
Welcome to the club Rita.
In recent years I have owned 3 Fords, a Probe GT(traded), a Contour LX
(wrecked)& an Escape XLS(still driven by my step-daughter from Hell,
with 235K on the clock), dealer sevices on the Probe & Contour were
always more expensive than the services on any of my 3 Mercedes, a
560SEL, an S600 coupe & the current E350.
The Probe and Contour services always seemed to be in the $300 range.
For major services on the Escape around $280 and about $80 for oil &
filter changes.
The Contour did pretty good when I fell asleep at the wheel on Hwy 101
after working 18 hours straight 2 days in a row, and rolled it at about
75 MPH.
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Ford_08.jpg
The only thing on V12 S600 which was unusual was the $120 wiperblade
which came with a special assembly. I traded that when the AC
compressor went at 180K and would have run $2800 for parts and
$800-1000 for labor. The work would not have added one cent to trade
value.
With the E350 the costs for service to date have been:
1: 3000 mile first service (at 2866 miles) total cost $0.00
2: Scheduled 13,000 mile service (at 12,808 miles)
oil filter: $20.50
9 qts. Mobile 1 Synthetic: $61.11
labor: $120.00
Waste disposal: $1.00
Total: $202.61
--
Regards,
Savageduck
J. Clarke
Germans used to build good stuff. They're too in love with technology for
the sake of technology today--they need to get back to making good stuff.
RichA
Status-conscious yuppies make me sick. They buy expensive Eurotrash
vehicles all the while being completely oblivious to the FACT their
overall quality SUCKS. They get what they ask for.
Ray Fischer
>Tried to do the first oil change on my new Lincoln MKX AWD today and boy
>was I in for a big surprise! Bought a Fram PH3600 as the book suggests.
>Sure enough, I tried to screw the new filter on and FUCK!! The FUCKEN'
>thing doesn't fit. It seems the original filter has Mexican threads and
>the Fram isn't compatible.
You bought the wrong filter and you think that it's somebody else's
fault?
>Well, I had enough of Mexican made assembled in America pieces of shit!
>FUCK Detroit and the union slobs, I'll be buying Mercedes this spring, a
>GL350. Obama made a big mistake bailing out GM and Chrysler!
Umm, according to Consumer Reports, the reliability of Mercedes is
crap. You'd do better with a Ford.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Savageduck
I must have been lucky over the last 45 odd years;
1963 FIAT 2300, amazingly straight six, no problems.
1968 VW Beetle 1500, replaced throttle cable.
1971 Subaru, no issues
1969 Chevy Impala, Aaaaaaaaagh!
1970 Datsun 260, bullet proof.
1975 BMW 520, no mechanical issue but rust prone door bottoms and
rocker panels.
1986 Subaru, broken timing belt @ 65K no other engine damage, traded at 120K.
1989 Ford Probe GT, no issues, traded @130K
2001 Ford Contour LX, transmission failure @35K, wrecked.
1986 Mercedes 560SEL, bought used with 85K, no issues, traded @265K
2003 Ford Escape still used by my "step-daughter from Hell" current
235K with no issues.
1996 Mercedes S600 coupe, bought used @64K traded @ 180K AC compressor failure.
2008 Mercedes E350 current with no issues.
and then there was the nightmare Chrysler Pacifica, blown engine with a
rod through the case @ 85K.
--
Regards,
Savageduck
Neil Harrington
"Bill Graham" <we...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:-LWdnXfW8qDH8WrX...@giganews.com...
Depends on the dealership and its service dept. One of the reasons I buy
Chevrolets now is that the local Chevy dealer is great. Service is good,
prompt, reliable and very reasonably priced. Oil and filter change, topping
off all fluids, checking everything etc. is about $25, and they always throw
in a free wash job. Also my main credit card is the GM card, which gives me
5% credit on my next new GM car on every purchase -- and I put almost
everything on the card. And I like the cars anyway.
I haven't bothered with changing my own oil and filter for at least 30
years. But you *do* need a dealership you can really depend on.
b...@nospam.com
wrote:
>Tried to do the first oil change on my new Lincoln MKX AWD today and boy
>was I in for a big surprise! Bought a Fram PH3600 as the book suggests.
>Sure enough, I tried to screw the new filter on and FUCK!! The FUCKEN'
>thing doesn't fit. It seems the original filter has Mexican threads and
>the Fram isn't compatible. Tried two auto parts stores and no go! An oil
>filter a dealer item? FUCK YES!!! I can expect this proprietary crap
>from Nikon and Canon, but Ford/Lincoln? At least with Nikon and Canon
>they let you buy aftermarket batteries.
>
>Well, I had enough of Mexican made assembled in America pieces of shit!
>FUCK Detroit and the union slobs, I'll be buying Mercedes this spring, a
>GL350. Obama made a big mistake bailing out GM and Chrysler!
You don't like the mexican product so you pick German? Mercedes? And you blame
the Union?? They didn't design it!
See you in the garage!! Have fun buying inflated price parts!
BTW I'll never buy a Ford, if they were the last car company on the planet, I'd
get a bus pass. Serves you right!
Neil Harrington
<b...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:vd8ff5l3hbt67th1k...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 16:47:29 -0600, Larry Thong
> <larry...@shitstring.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Tried to do the first oil change on my new Lincoln MKX AWD today and boy
>>was I in for a big surprise! Bought a Fram PH3600 as the book suggests.
>>Sure enough, I tried to screw the new filter on and FUCK!! The FUCKEN'
>>thing doesn't fit. It seems the original filter has Mexican threads and
>>the Fram isn't compatible. Tried two auto parts stores and no go! An oil
>>filter a dealer item? FUCK YES!!! I can expect this proprietary crap
>>from Nikon and Canon, but Ford/Lincoln? At least with Nikon and Canon
>>they let you buy aftermarket batteries.
>>
>>Well, I had enough of Mexican made assembled in America pieces of shit!
>>FUCK Detroit and the union slobs, I'll be buying Mercedes this spring, a
>>GL350. Obama made a big mistake bailing out GM and Chrysler!
>
> You don't like the mexican product so you pick German? Mercedes? And you
> blame
> the Union?? They didn't design it!
They put it together, though. I doubt there's anything wrong with the
*design* of the car or anything in it, but some American cars have been very
poorly assembled.
>
> See you in the garage!! Have fun buying inflated price parts!
>
> BTW I'll never buy a Ford, if they were the last car company on the
> planet, I'd
> get a bus pass. Serves you right!
There have been some very good Fords and Mercurys and also some very
sloppily assembled ones. I've owned a few of both. Never bought a Lincoln.
Elliott Roper
Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> On 2009-11-08 19:21:11 -0800, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) said:
>
> > Larry Thong <larry...@shitstring.com> wrote:
> >> Tried to do the first oil change on my new Lincoln MKX AWD today and boy
> >> was I in for a big surprise! Bought a Fram PH3600 as the book suggests.
> >> Sure enough, I tried to screw the new filter on and FUCK!! The FUCKEN'
> >> thing doesn't fit. It seems the original filter has Mexican threads and
> >> the Fram isn't compatible.
> >
> > You bought the wrong filter and you think that it's somebody else's
> > fault?
> >
> >> Well, I had enough of Mexican made assembled in America pieces of shit!
> >> FUCK Detroit and the union slobs, I'll be buying Mercedes this spring, a
> >> GL350. Obama made a big mistake bailing out GM and Chrysler!
> >
> > Umm, according to Consumer Reports, the reliability of Mercedes is
> > crap. You'd do better with a Ford.
>
> I must have been lucky over the last 45 odd years;
> 1963 FIAT 2300, amazingly straight six, no problems.
Yay!
I might have bought yours! $AU900 with about 100,000 miles on the clock
in 1969. I put another 150,000 on. By then the stuffing was coming out
the seats, the dashboard plastic was disintegrating in the Sydney sun,
and apart from the gear linkages, which were a nightmare, it was
utterly reliable, fast and safe. Had it towed away for $10 when I could
not afford a new battery for it many years later
Fiat never made a better car
--
To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$
PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248
Savageduck
Agreed.
four on the column, and the first standard production car with four
wheel disc brakes!
...and it could move and hanled well. Mine was a dark grey. It was
handed down to a cousin and he finally wrecked it in 1975.
--
Regards,
Savageduck
(PeteCresswell)
>but some American cars have been very
>poorly assembled.
My suburban was assembled in Mexico.
One of the first things I noticed were the streams of rust
bleeding down from where they aligned parts of the front body
using iron or steel spacers that were already rusting badly on
Day 1.
The second thing I "noticed" was smoke pouring out of the right
rear brake - which locked up on day 7. Turns out the prevailing
wisdom was "never engage the parking brake in freezing weather
because it tends to lock up". Assembly or design? Dunno...
but you'd think they'd have something that basic worked out after
50+ years design-wise.
As of now, the roof metal around the left side roof rack
attachment points is rusting so badly it's starting to blister. I
can't even disassemble the racks/attachment bolts bc it's all one
big mass of rust. I pulled the right-side bolts to have a look
and was scared by what I saw: just holes drilled in the body
metal with these little clips on the other side of the bolts. No
nut welded to the other side, no backing, no after-assembly rust
proofing.
I was hoping to go for a quarter-mil miles, but this could be
the precipitating factor in getting rid of the thing.
--
PeteCresswell
David Ruether
"Larry Thong" <larry...@shitstring.com> wrote in message news:dpidnQTTPoaa6WrX...@supernews.com...
> Bill Graham wrote:
Jiffy Lube - changed the Toyota oil and filter, got the filter
wrong and the oil leaked slowly out, damaging the engine.
The most they would settle for out of court was $400...
--DR
R. Mark Clayton
> Tried to do the first oil change on my new Lincoln MKX AWD today and boy
> was I in for a big surprise! Bought a Fram PH3600 as the book suggests.
> Sure enough, I tried to screw the new filter on and FUCK!! The FUCKEN'
> thing doesn't fit. It seems the original filter has Mexican threads and
> filter a dealer item? FUCK YES!!! I can expect this proprietary crap
> from Nikon and Canon, but Ford/Lincoln? At least with Nikon and Canon
> they let you buy aftermarket batteries.
>
> FUCK Detroit and the union slobs, I'll be buying Mercedes this spring, a
> GL350. Obama made a big mistake bailing out GM and Chrysler!
I thought filter threads were all the same, although I suppose US one might
be imperial or something*.
Of course the tripod mount thread is 1/4" Whitworth.
Larry Thong
>> That's just it, I don't know what these exact parts will cost me from the
>> Lincoln dealer.
>
> Welcome to the club Rita.
The bastards, I mean dealer, gave me a break and only charges $12 each.
Larry Thong
>> Well, I had enough of Mexican made assembled in America pieces of shit!
>> FUCK Detroit and the union slobs, I'll be buying Mercedes this spring, a
>> GL350. Obama made a big mistake bailing out GM and Chrysler!
>
> I thought filter threads were all the same, although I suppose US one might
> be imperial or something*.
Nope! I picked up a couple of them at the dealer today. They are using
Motorcraft FL-500S filters. The bastards made this one with "Thread
Size: 22X1.5 MM"
Larry Thong
>> You got it! I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty. The one and only
>> time I was too lazy to get my dead ass under the car was during a cold
>> winter's day many years back and took it to Jiffy Lube. They forgot to
>> add oil. Thankfully, I did check everything prior to driving off their
>> lot. I had a crowd gathering with my yelling. They offered a years
>> supply of free oil changes. Yeah, like I would trust them ever again?
>
> Jiffy Lube - changed the Toyota oil and filter, got the filter
> wrong and the oil leaked slowly out, damaging the engine.
> The most they would settle for out of court was $400...
That's why I do all the work myself. I don't have the time or the
patients to deal with these idiots.
tony cooper
I guess we should be calling you Dr Thong.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Larry Thong
>> That's why I do all the work myself. I don't have the time or the
>> patients to deal with these idiots.
>
> I guess we should be calling you Dr Thong.
Well, with the new Obamacare just around the corner it might be a
lucrative business venture that will bring out many new patients, it got
you out of the woodwork. How ya doing Tony?
Dr. Thong
Savageduck
I can see your standard treatment now, "Change the filter, and replace
all the vital bodily fluids."
That should fix everything from an ingrown toe nail to H1N1.
Your patients won't need insurance, just a service contract.
--
Regards,
Savageduck
Neil Harrington
"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote in message
> Per Neil Harrington:
>>but some American cars have been very
>>poorly assembled.
>
> My suburban was assembled in Mexico.
>
> One of the first things I noticed were the streams of rust
> bleeding down from where they aligned parts of the front body
> using iron or steel spacers that were already rusting badly on
> Day 1.
>
> The second thing I "noticed" was smoke pouring out of the right
> rear brake - which locked up on day 7. Turns out the prevailing
> wisdom was "never engage the parking brake in freezing weather
> because it tends to lock up". Assembly or design? Dunno...
> but you'd think they'd have something that basic worked out after
> 50+ years design-wise.
Yes, you'd think so. That's terrible. I've been buying new cars since 1955,
mostly American but a few European or Japanese, and never had anything quite
like that.
I think the worst case of careless assembly in my own experience was a Ford
Pinto I bought in 1972. The first time I was out in it when it started to
rain, I turned on the windshield wipers and they made two or three strokes
and stopped. The reason they stopped was a bolt just fell out of the
actuating arm under the dashboard. Evidently whoever put that bolt in hadn't
even made it hand tight -- I did so and never had a further problem with it.
That and an incredibly sloppy job of painting the spare wheel (full size
spares were standard in those days) did not create much owner confidence in
it.
However, despite all the bad publicity given the Pinto, apart from those two
final-assembly problems mine was a good car and never gave me any further
trouble. I owned it about five years, took it on trips to Canada and to
Florida, never had another complaint with it.
>
> As of now, the roof metal around the left side roof rack
> attachment points is rusting so badly it's starting to blister. I
> can't even disassemble the racks/attachment bolts bc it's all one
> big mass of rust. I pulled the right-side bolts to have a look
> and was scared by what I saw: just holes drilled in the body
> metal with these little clips on the other side of the bolts. No
> nut welded to the other side, no backing, no after-assembly rust
> proofing.
>
> I was hoping to go for a quarter-mil miles, but this could be
> the precipitating factor in getting rid of the thing.
Yes, I can se that. When you say "suburban" you mean the Chevy Suburban,
right? (I don't know whether the term is used for any other vehicle.) How
old is yours now?
I didn't even know Chevy was assembling cars in Mexico.
Neil Harrington
"R. Mark Clayton" <nospam...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:w5GdnQbD2PUH_mXX...@bt.com...
U.S. threads used to be all SAE, but I think they've all been going metric
for several years now. Since I haven't done any work on my cars for decades
I don't really know.
>
> Of course the tripod mount thread is 1/4" Whitworth.
Really?! I always just assumed that was SAE too.
J�rgen Exner
>On 2009-11-08 17:47:29 -0500, Larry Thong <larry...@shitstring.com> said:
>> It seems the original filter has Mexican threads and
>> the Fram isn't compatible.
What are "Mexican threads", if you don't mind me asking?
jue
Savageduck
They are cut with hot sauce on Tuesdays & Thursdays between 08:30 to
12:30, and 14:45 to 16:00.
--
Regards,
Savageduck
b...@nospam.com
wrote:
>
><b...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:vd8ff5l3hbt67th1k...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 16:47:29 -0600, Larry Thong
>> <larry...@shitstring.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Tried to do the first oil change on my new Lincoln MKX AWD today and boy
>>>was I in for a big surprise! Bought a Fram PH3600 as the book suggests.
>>>Sure enough, I tried to screw the new filter on and FUCK!! The FUCKEN'
>>>thing doesn't fit. It seems the original filter has Mexican threads and
>>>the Fram isn't compatible. Tried two auto parts stores and no go! An oil
>>>filter a dealer item? FUCK YES!!! I can expect this proprietary crap
>>>from Nikon and Canon, but Ford/Lincoln? At least with Nikon and Canon
>>>they let you buy aftermarket batteries.
>>>
>>>Well, I had enough of Mexican made assembled in America pieces of shit!
>>>FUCK Detroit and the union slobs, I'll be buying Mercedes this spring, a
>>>GL350. Obama made a big mistake bailing out GM and Chrysler!
>>
>> You don't like the mexican product so you pick German? Mercedes? And you
>> blame
>> the Union?? They didn't design it!
>
>They put it together, though. I doubt there's anything wrong with the
>*design* of the car or anything in it, but some American cars have been very
>poorly assembled.
He was complaining about the thread style - that's design!
And I've bought or driven almost every American car there is, and believe me,
they have monkeys on the design staff!
I remember one car where the exhaust mani was so close to the front passenger
floor, it would set your shoe on fire! American Motors... bye bye.
Now I buy Jap cars, either Mitsubishis or Hondas.
Not to say they are perfect, some design is weird, but unlike American cars, I
don't become socially active with the garage mechanics!
WORST fucking car I ever had was a Ford. Paid more to keep it on the road for 3
years than its new price! At the 6yo mark, it BROKE in HALF!
I'd buy a Mustang just for the style, but first Ford has to give me the $9000
they own me, plus interest.
Chryco's and GM's were about tied for repair work, hit the garage every few
months. Replaced engines 2 or 3 times... those old V8s were easy to kill.
A Mitsubishi I had (1994 Japan made) ran for 12 years with no problems other
than replace the brakes and radiator. I sold it for $1000 and it's STILL on the
road!
Now I have a Honda, a bit clunky in some respects, lots of road noise, but
solid. 2yo now and zero problems. I think it's built in America... by Union
people no doubt... ! :)
RichA
> On 2009-11-08 15:39:50 -0800, Larry Thong <larry_th...@shitstring.com> said:
>
> > On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 18:23:20 -0500, David Ruether wrote:
>
> >>> Well, I had enough of Mexican made assembled in America pieces of shit!
> >>> FUCK Detroit and the union slobs, I'll be buying Mercedes this spring,
> >>> a GL350. Obama made a big mistake bailing out GM and Chrysler!
>
> >> A doctor friend of mine bought one of those Mercedes "pocket SUVs", and
> >> soon after, the rear struts needed replacing. About $6,000 later, he
> >> sold it. Another friend had a Mercedes and the alternator gave out.
> >> Could he just buy the brushes and repair it himself? No. He bought a new
> >> alternator, then sold the car...
> >> Jes' sayin', yuh no...;-)
>
> > That's just it, I don't know what these exact parts will cost me from the
> > Lincoln dealer.
>
> Welcome to the club Rita.
>
> In recent years I have owned 3 Fords, a Probe GT(traded), a Contour LX
> (wrecked)& an Escape XLS(still driven by my step-daughter from Hell,
> with 235K on the clock), dealer sevices on the Probe & Contour were
> always more expensive than the services on any of my 3 Mercedes, a
> 560SEL, an S600 coupe & the current E350.
> The Probe and Contour services always seemed to be in the $300 range.
> For major services on the Escape around $280 and about $80 for oil &
> filter changes.
>
> The Contour did pretty good when I fell asleep at the wheel on Hwy 101
> after working 18 hours straight 2 days in a row, and rolled it at about
>
> The only thing on V12 S600 which was unusual was the $120 wiperblade
> which came with a special assembly. I traded that when the AC
> compressor went at 180K and would have run $2800 for parts and
> $800-1000 for labor. The work would not have added one cent to trade
> value.
Even sadder when a $0.20 diode goes on an A/C unit and the compressor
has to be replaced at $600.00 because the whole thing is one module.
That was on a Ford.
Bill Graham
> Bill Graham wrote:
>
>> If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself, (or, at least
>> supervise it yourself) especially when you are dealing with American,
>> (big three) auto mechanics.
>
> time I was too lazy to get my dead ass under the car was during a cold
> winter's day many years back and took it to Jiffy Lube. They forgot to
> add oil. Thankfully, I did check everything prior to driving off their
> lot. I had a crowd gathering with my yelling. They offered a years
> supply of free oil changes. Yeah, like I would trust them ever again?
I would tell you about my experience with AAMCO transmission service people,
except that it would bore you to death. Suffice it to say that In a 12 month
period, my car spent about 6 months in their property, and about 6 months in
my driveway, and they never did fix the problem. But they did manage to get
$820 from me for what they called their, " Gold Seal Rebuild". Funny,
because the rebuild still had the same problem as the "old" trannie, but the
"new" trannie was painted gold.....:^)
Bill Graham
"Neil Harrington" <sec...@illumnati.net> wrote in message
news:JPWdnZDAHf_QP2rX...@giganews.com...
him, then you are very lucky, and it doesn't matter very much who he works
for, as long as you know he is the one who is working on your car. I used to
know a Czech guy who worked on German cars and he did all my work on both my
BMW and an Alfa Romeo I had. But that was down in California, and now I am
up here in Salem, Oregon and Tony is 600 miles away. But fortunately, my two
Subaru's are extremely reliable.
Bill Graham
"Neil Harrington" <n...@home.today> wrote in message
news:96ednaEI_cgdcmXX...@giganews.com...
Bill Graham
"Neil Harrington" <n...@home.today> wrote in message
RustY �
Neil Harrington
I'll bet we'd be assembling all "American" cars in the U.S. too, if it were
not for the unions.
Neil Harrington
<b...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:2r4if55osbgljeo5e...@4ax.com...
Whatever "Mexican threads" are, that's "design" only by the broadest
definition imaginable. I don't think most people would consider a difference
in threads to be a design change.
>
> And I've bought or driven almost every American car there is, and believe
> me,
> they have monkeys on the design staff!
>
> I remember one car where the exhaust mani was so close to the front
> passenger
> floor, it would set your shoe on fire! American Motors... bye bye.
>
> Now I buy Jap cars, either Mitsubishis or Hondas.
>
> Not to say they are perfect, some design is weird, but unlike American
> cars, I
> don't become socially active with the garage mechanics!
>
> WORST fucking car I ever had was a Ford. Paid more to keep it on the road
> for 3
> years than its new price! At the 6yo mark, it BROKE in HALF!
>
> I'd buy a Mustang just for the style, but first Ford has to give me the
> $9000
> they own me, plus interest.
>
> Chryco's and GM's were about tied for repair work, hit the garage every
> few
> months. Replaced engines 2 or 3 times... those old V8s were easy to kill.
It's been many years since I've owned a V8, but I've had 'em all the way
back to the Ford flathead 239 (my very first car, a 1940 Mercury) and the
only one that gave me any trouble was the one in my '49 Mercury that
developed a crack in the cylinder head at about 90,000 miles. That was my
last flathead, too. Of several OHV V8s I've owned (all Fords and Mercs) not
one ever gave me any trouble. The Ford 302 was a particularly sweet engine,
I think nearly everyone would agree.
>
> A Mitsubishi I had (1994 Japan made) ran for 12 years with no problems
> other
> than replace the brakes and radiator. I sold it for $1000 and it's STILL
> on the
> road!
>
> Now I have a Honda, a bit clunky in some respects, lots of road noise, but
> solid. 2yo now and zero problems. I think it's built in America... by
> Union
> people no doubt... ! :)
I think most if not all Japanese cars built in the U.S. are NON-union built.
Unions are responsible for most of our losses of manufacturing jobs.
Neil Harrington
That's what I thought. But I don't think he's kidding.
As far as I know, Whitworth sizes were only used on British products.
Neil Harrington
Your patients used to do the work? :-)
Neil Harrington
> tony cooper wrote:
>
>>> That's why I do all the work myself. I don't have the time or the
>>> patients to deal with these idiots.
>>
>> I guess we should be calling you Dr Thong.
>
> Well, with the new Obamacare just around the corner it might be a
I suspect "the new Obamacare" may still be "just around the corner" on his
last day in office, which will hopefully be in January 2012. By that time
the combined House and Senate health care bills will total approximately
312,000 pages and they still won't make it to his signature. (The House bill
just passed in the dark Saturday isn't really going anywhere and will have
to be done over again. And again. And again. At least I hope so.)
ObamaCare remains what it has been from the beginning, a really bad joke.
Neil Harrington
"Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
news:2009110923245251816-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
I thought siesta started earlier than 12:30 and ended later than 14:45, but
it's many years since I've been to Mexico and I suppose it's all different
now.
R. Mark Clayton
>
> "Bill Graham" <we...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:5qCdnZYI57wUg2TX...@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Neil Harrington" <n...@home.today> wrote in message
>> news:FJKdnbcsb5IrbWXX...@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "R. Mark Clayton" <nospam...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>>> news:w5GdnQbD2PUH_mXX...@bt.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Larry Thong" <larry...@shitstring.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:yPSdndov5ssc12rX...@supernews.com...
>>>>
>>>> Of course the tripod mount thread is 1/4" Whitworth.
>>>
>>> Really?! I always just assumed that was SAE too.
>>>
>> I think he's kidding.....Mine's 1/4-20 SAE.
>
> That's what I thought. But I don't think he's kidding.
>
> As far as I know, Whitworth sizes were only used on British products.
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitworth_thread
"Within the United States, the Whitworth thread that most people encounter
is the quarter-inch thread on the bottom of most cameras for mounting on a
tripod."
Touch�!
Even though the Yanks left the Empire they still won't join the rest of the
world.
(PeteCresswell)
>However, despite all the bad publicity given the Pinto, apart from those two
>final-assembly problems mine was a good car and never gave me any further
>trouble. I owned it about five years, took it on trips to Canada and to
>Florida, never had another complaint with it.
Was Pinto the one where the occupants were incinerated if
somebody hit it from behind?
> When you say "suburban" you mean the Chevy Suburban,
>right? (I don't know whether the term is used for any other vehicle.) How
>old is yours now?
>
>I didn't even know Chevy was assembling cars in Mexico.
Yes, Chevrolet Suburban. Suburbans are also marketed by GMC, but
I think it's the same vehicle except for the badge.
I didn't know they were assembling them in Mexico either until I
drove this one home and saw something somewhere in the
documentation or something that said where it was assembled.
--
PeteCresswell
Bill Graham
>
> Even though the Yanks left the Empire they still won't join the rest of
> the world.
>
>
probably fit into a 1/4-20 nut for some limited number of turns without any
trouble.....
Bill Graham
"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote in message
My daughter used to use a Suburban with 4 wheel drive to carry oxygen
bottles and wheelchairs to her patients in the winter snow, but she stopped
buying them a few years ago because of poor reliability.
Neil Harrington
"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote in message
> Per Neil Harrington:
>>However, despite all the bad publicity given the Pinto, apart from those
>>two
>>final-assembly problems mine was a good car and never gave me any further
>>trouble. I owned it about five years, took it on trips to Canada and to
>>Florida, never had another complaint with it.
>
> Was Pinto the one where the occupants were incinerated if
> somebody hit it from behind?
That's the one. Probably something of an exaggerated problem, but never
having been hit in it from behind I can't speak from experience. Of course
those who *were* incinerated in Pintos wouldn't have considered it an
exaggeration.
>
>
>
>> When you say "suburban" you mean the Chevy Suburban,
>>right? (I don't know whether the term is used for any other vehicle.) How
>>old is yours now?
>>
>>I didn't even know Chevy was assembling cars in Mexico.
>
> Yes, Chevrolet Suburban. Suburbans are also marketed by GMC, but
> I think it's the same vehicle except for the badge.
>
> I didn't know they were assembling them in Mexico either until I
> drove this one home and saw something somewhere in the
> documentation or something that said where it was assembled.
> --
> PeteCresswell
That's interesting. I knew some American electronic stuff has been assembled
in Mexico for many years, but I guess they never advertised the fact about
cars. I've read about quality differences between specific GM plants, but
never saw a Mexican plant mentioned.
(PeteCresswell)
>
>My daughter used to use a Suburban with 4 wheel drive to carry oxygen
>bottles and wheelchairs to her patients in the winter snow, but she stopped
>buying them a few years ago because of poor reliability.
This one, the first new car I've ever owned, has stranded me a
total of six times so far. That's more times than I've been
stranded (once) by 30+ years of driving beaters.
But go in the snow, it does. In a nice heavy snowfall, I make a
game out of seeing how long I can go with using 4wd. Usually
it's until I do something stupid like stopping at the bottom of a
hill or going into a rutted area without enough momentum.
--
PeteCresswell
Neil Harrington
That's interesting. But the chart on that page shows 1/4-20 to be a standard
Whitworth size, so a 1/4-20 SAE bolt still fits, even if not perfectly. I
believe the shape of the threads is slightly different between the two.
For American mechanics working with Whitworth bolts, nuts and wrenches, the
main problem is the difference in wrench sizes -- which is only because SAE
measures size across the flats while Whitworth measures point to opposite
point.
>
> Touch�!
>
> Even though the Yanks left the Empire they still won't join the rest of
> the world.
And go metric, you mean? There'd be no point to it. Metric is silly for most
ordinary purposes, and it would cost billions to change everything.
Hexadecimal really makes far more sense than metric, and that is closer to
the old familiar English systems of measure. You blokes should have stayed
with what you had. (Well, except for currency I suppose. But even that had
the advantage of being charmingly quaint.)
Allen
> Per Neil Harrington:
>> However, despite all the bad publicity given the Pinto, apart from those two
>> final-assembly problems mine was a good car and never gave me any further
>> trouble. I owned it about five years, took it on trips to Canada and to
>> Florida, never had another complaint with it.
>
> Was Pinto the one where the occupants were incinerated if
> somebody hit it from behind?
in auto liability cases back in the Pinto days. One day one of his
daughters came home driving a Pinto. His comment: "If you're in a bad
wreck, I hope you're killed in the impact". Answer your question?
Allen
b...@nospam.com
wrote:
Type of thread is design - you think some union worker went out and got a
different thread machine to build the car? Are you retarded?
Especially my mechanic who charged me a fortune to replace it.
>>
>> A Mitsubishi I had (1994 Japan made) ran for 12 years with no problems
>> other
>> than replace the brakes and radiator. I sold it for $1000 and it's STILL
>> on the
>> road!
>>
>> Now I have a Honda, a bit clunky in some respects, lots of road noise, but
>> solid. 2yo now and zero problems. I think it's built in America... by
>> Union
>> people no doubt... ! :)
>
>I think most if not all Japanese cars built in the U.S. are NON-union built.
>Unions are responsible for most of our losses of manufacturing jobs.
Fuck you really are stupid!
Lets get rid of the union jobs and go back to minimum wage for everybody!!
I bet you're a republican!
PLONK
J�rgen Exner
>And go metric, you mean? There'd be no point to it. Metric is silly for most
>ordinary purposes,
Yeah, right. That's probably the reason why 200+ countries are using it
where there are only 3 that don't.
>and it would cost billions to change everything.
"Those who are late will be punished by life itself."
>Hexadecimal really makes far more sense than metric,
You got 16 fingers? Amazing!
And you are fluent in adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing
them, too? Like 3A4F + BE3 * 2D5? Even more amazing!
Besides, what does the radix of a numeral system have to do with metric
or not?
>and that is closer to
>the old familiar English systems of measure.
???
What? Where except for small liquid quantities?
>You blokes should have stayed
>with what you had. (Well, except for currency I suppose. But even that had
>the advantage of being charmingly quaint.)
How many cubic inches are in a gallon, again? How many tea spoon are in
one cubic foot of water? And how many inches are there to a mile? And
how high can I lift 1 pound with the energy provided by 1 BTU in 1 hour?
And do you even know how a furlong by a chain is commonly called today?
Now tell me again, that that nonsense makes any logical sense.
jue
Bill Graham
"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote in message
Yes. My daughter owns a home health care business in Wyoming, and she needed
a big warm truck (like the suburban) but now she uses something else.....( I
forget exactly what it is) She has to carry heavy equipment, and sometimes
the patients themselves around in the snow.....
Bill Graham
"J�rgen Exner" <jurg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2tlkf5dv03jmudhdl...@4ax.com...
Do people still add and subtract? - I thought everyone used a pocket
calculator for things like that.
J�rgen Exner
>>>Hexadecimal really makes far more sense than metric,
>>
>> You got 16 fingers? Amazing!
>> And you are fluent in adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing
>> them, too? Like 3A4F + BE3 * 2D5? Even more amazing!
>>
>Do people still add and subtract? - I thought everyone used a pocket
>calculator for things like that.
Your pocket calculator must be pretty advanced to support hexadezimal
arithmetic. Of course those things do exist, but they are definitely
*NOT* commonplace. At least I've never seen keys 'A' to 'F' on e.g. the
typical TI-30.
jue
George Kerby
On 11/11/09 12:18 AM, in article b4lkf5laqu1afii7a...@4ax.com,
"b...@nospam.com" <b...@nospam.com> wrote:
Well, aren't YOU the special little pointy-head!
R. Mark Clayton
Back in the early 80's IIRC Texas brought out the first hexadecimal
calculator (also did decimal, octal and binary). Common in programming
dept's.
Casio started producing multiple base calculators in the late 80's and most
of their scientific ones support it.
These days even my calculator from the pound shop has it and the answer to
the above is 21E42E = 2221102
>
> jue
nospam
<nospam...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Back in the early 80's IIRC Texas brought out the first hexadecimal
> calculator (also did decimal, octal and binary). Common in programming
> dept's.
nope, the hp-16c was the first in 1982. hp also had the 15c which did
complex arithmetic and the hp-41c which could do pretty much anything.
Neil Harrington
"George Kerby" <ghost_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:C7202D41.382A9%ghost_...@hotmail.com...
Yes, he is. Most of the drooling dingbats who so eagerly jumped on the Obama
Kool-Aid wagon are really out of sorts these days. And will become
increasingly so as time goes by. Tsk tsk.
R. Mark Clayton
>
> "R. Mark Clayton" <nospam...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:OLmdnQWi2eLSIGTX...@bt.com...
>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course the tripod mount thread is 1/4" Whitworth.
>>>>>
>>>>> Really?! I always just assumed that was SAE too.
>>>>>
>>>> I think he's kidding.....Mine's 1/4-20 SAE.
>>>
>>> That's what I thought. But I don't think he's kidding.
>>>
>>> As far as I know, Whitworth sizes were only used on British products.
>>>
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitworth_thread
>>
>> "Within the United States, the Whitworth thread that most people
>> encounter is the quarter-inch thread on the bottom of most cameras for
>> mounting on a tripod."
>
> That's interesting. But the chart on that page shows 1/4-20 to be a
> standard Whitworth size, so a 1/4-20 SAE bolt still fits, even if not
> perfectly. I believe the shape of the threads is slightly different
> between the two.
>
> For American mechanics working with Whitworth bolts, nuts and wrenches,
> the main problem is the difference in wrench sizes -- which is only
> because SAE measures size across the flats while Whitworth measures point
> to opposite point.
Also the angle of the thread may be 60 degrees instead of 55, so it will
turn in for a while and then get stuck - unless of course SAE cribbed it.
Whitworth heads were quite large and were reduced during the war to save
metal.
>
>>
>> Touch�!
>>
>> Even though the Yanks left the Empire they still won't join the rest of
>> the world.
>
> And go metric, you mean? There'd be no point to it. Metric is silly for
> most ordinary purposes, and it would cost billions to change everything.
Well what about the cost of not changing it?
Item 1 Mars Climate Orbiter crashes and burns*
$327,600,000.00c
So that's about one dollar per citizen - bad start!
(OK so in the fifties the Brits made a car engine that had metric bolts with
imperial heads... )
> Hexadecimal really makes far more sense than metric, and that is closer to
> the old familiar English systems of measure. You blokes should have stayed
> with what you had. (Well, except for currency I suppose. But even that had
> the advantage of being charmingly quaint.)
>
Well this only works for avoirdupois weight (16 ounces to the pound), but
for troy weight there are only 12 and for fluid measure 20 fluid ounces to
the pint (OK so it is 16 now in our former colony, but what do they know
about measurement or spelling?).
As for the pound sterling this is the last currency in the world that has
any relation to the original pound weight of silver that the Libra (�) in
Lsd stood for in Roman times. By 1914 there were four ounces (~112g) of
92.5% silver to the �, but now one pound will only buy you about 4 to 5g.
Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling are working hard to reduce this as rapidly
as possible :-((.
The French Livre blew up during their revolution with a loaf of bread
costing �15 or more and was replaced by the Franc (revalued by 100 ~1960).
By the time the Italian Lira was replaced by the Euro there were thousands
to the Euro.
J. Clarke
Christ, I was using a hex calculator back in the early '70s. Of course I
wrote it in APL . . .
nospam
<jclarke...@cox.net> wrote:
> Christ, I was using a hex calculator back in the early '70s. Of course I
> wrote it in APL . . .
did it fit in your jeans pocket?
Neil Harrington
> "Neil Harrington" <sec...@illumnati.net> wrote:
>>And go metric, you mean? There'd be no point to it. Metric is silly for
>>most
>>ordinary purposes,
>
> Yeah, right. That's probably the reason why 200+ countries are using it
> where there are only 3 that don't.
One of the three that doesn't is the world's only remaining superpower. Who
cares what they're using in Lower Slobovia or West Bongo-Bongo?
>
>>and it would cost billions to change everything.
>
> "Those who are late will be punished by life itself."
>
>>Hexadecimal really makes far more sense than metric,
>
> You got 16 fingers? Amazing!
If you really need your fingers to count on, I can understand why you think
metric is great. For those of us who don't, fingers and toes don't really
come into it.
> And you are fluent in adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing
> them, too? Like 3A4F + BE3 * 2D5? Even more amazing!
Why is it amazing? You're used to thinking in the decimal system so it seems
"natural" and "proper" to you. You need to get rid of the idea that a number
system only makes sense if it matches how many fingers you have. The
ten-based system isn't really any more logical than a six-based system or
for that matter a thirty-based system. It's only comfortable for you because
it's what you're used to.
>
> Besides, what does the radix of a numeral system have to do with metric
> or not?
>
>>and that is closer to
>>the old familiar English systems of measure.
>
> ???
> What? Where except for small liquid quantities?
>
>>You blokes should have stayed
>>with what you had. (Well, except for currency I suppose. But even that had
>>the advantage of being charmingly quaint.)
>
> How many cubic inches are in a gallon, again?
Who cares? Is that a question that comes up often in your life?
> How many tea spoon are in
> one cubic foot of water? And how many inches are there to a mile? And
> how high can I lift 1 pound with the energy provided by 1 BTU in 1 hour?
> And do you even know how a furlong by a chain is commonly called today?
Same answer to all those questions: Who cares? Conversely, what good does it
do you to know how many millimeters there are in a kilometer? Why would you
ever need to know that?
Teaspoons, quarts, inches and miles are all useful units of measure, which
is why they were adopted in the first place. Those that are not useful for
general purposes, e.g. drams and furlongs, have dropped out of general use
except for a few traditional purposes.
The metric system on the other hand is loaded with *perfectly useless* units
of measure, all because of the nonsensical 19th-century notion that
everything should progress by orders of ten, whether it served any useful
purpose or not.
When's the last time you had occasion to measure anything by decameters?
<snort>
Or decimeters, for that matter? Don't get them confused now!
Ever use drops, such as eye drops? Can you tell me how much one drop is in
metric?
Bill Graham
"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:111120091054385997%nos...@nospam.invalid...
I still have my 15C. It is a companion to my 12C, which is financial, and is
still made and sold by HP. They discontinued the 15C, but it is the finest
calculator for complex arithmetic I have seen to date.
Bill Graham
Unfortunately, financially, we will all be, "out of sorts" by the time Obama
is ushered out of office. The dollar will be out of sorts......
J�rgen Exner
>"J�rgen Exner" <jurg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:2tlkf5dv03jmudhdl...@4ax.com...
>> "Neil Harrington" <sec...@illumnati.net> wrote:
>>>And go metric, you mean? There'd be no point to it. Metric is silly for
>>>most
>>>ordinary purposes,
>>
>> Yeah, right. That's probably the reason why 200+ countries are using it
>> where there are only 3 that don't.
>
>One of the three that doesn't is the world's only remaining superpower. Who
>cares what they're using in Lower Slobovia or West Bongo-Bongo?
Careful, that is an argument that is backfiring on a big scale. 'The
rest' is caring less and less about what that 'remaining superpower' is
doing or not doing in its arrogance and are just moving forward, leaving
that 'remaining superpower' to its own devices.
>>>Hexadecimal really makes far more sense than metric,
>>
>> You got 16 fingers? Amazing!
>
>If you really need your fingers to count on, I can understand why you think
>metric is great. For those of us who don't, fingers and toes don't really
>come into it.
You don't have little children, do you? I wonder how you learned your
very first steps in counting.
>> And you are fluent in adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing
>> them, too? Like 3A4F + BE3 * 2D5? Even more amazing!
>
>Why is it amazing? You're used to thinking in the decimal system so it seems
>"natural" and "proper" to you. You need to get rid of the idea that a number
>system only makes sense if it matches how many fingers you have. The
>ten-based system isn't really any more logical than a six-based system or
>for that matter a thirty-based system. It's only comfortable for you because
>it's what you're used to.
Absolutely! And that is because the decimal system is the one which the
vast majority of the worlds population grew up with, learned at home and
in school as their 'native' system, is using every day, and is most
comfortable using, way more comfortable than hexadezimal or binary or
any other system. Or how many bills did you receive recently that were
written in hexadecimal?
So why would you want to use a base that is alien to everybody except
for very few specialists, typically from computer science? Or are you
really writing "3B" inches when writing down a length that is 1 inch
shorter than 4 feet?
>> How many cubic inches are in a gallon, again?
>
>Who cares? Is that a question that comes up often in your life?
Every single time I want to build a container of some sort. How large do
I have to build the sides such that it will hold x gallons of liquid?
>> How many tea spoon are in
>> one cubic foot of water? And how many inches are there to a mile? And
>> how high can I lift 1 pound with the energy provided by 1 BTU in 1 hour?
>> And do you even know how a furlong by a chain is commonly called today?
>
>Same answer to all those questions: Who cares? Conversely, what good does it
>do you to know how many millimeters there are in a kilometer? Why would you
>ever need to know that?
E.g. in my recent pilot exam: given a glide slope of 1:12 how many feet
of altitude are you loosing in 5 miles?
My solution: convert those fucking 5 miles into kilometers (I knew that
conversion), divide by 12, move the decimal 3 digits to get meters, and
convert into feet (I knew that conversion). I got the right solution.
According to your statement above this is actually the only way because
according to you you would never need to know how many feet there are in
a mile. Besides, how on earth can possibly remember those odd numbers
anyway?
>The metric system on the other hand is loaded with *perfectly useless* units
>of measure, all because of the nonsensical 19th-century notion that
>everything should progress by orders of ten, whether it served any useful
>purpose or not.
>
>When's the last time you had occasion to measure anything by decameters?
><snort>
>
>Or decimeters, for that matter? Don't get them confused now!
Yeah, if you've never used it then obviously you don't know that they
are never used. And no, just because you could be stupid and use those
multiples it doesn't mean you have to be so stupid to use them.
People are using 10m instead of 1dam and 0.1m or 10cm instead of 1dm.
>Ever use drops, such as eye drops? Can you tell me how much one drop is in
>metric?
And can you tell me how many drops there are in a quart?
jue
Neil Harrington
>
> "Neil Harrington" <sec...@illumnati.net> wrote in message
> news:W8-dnQ16jqYTl2fX...@giganews.com...
>>
>> "R. Mark Clayton" <nospam...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>> news:OLmdnQWi2eLSIGTX...@bt.com...
>>>
> SNIP
>>>
>>>
>>> Even though the Yanks left the Empire they still won't join the rest of
>>> the world.
>>
>> And go metric, you mean? There'd be no point to it. Metric is silly for
>> most ordinary purposes, and it would cost billions to change everything.
>
> Well what about the cost of not changing it?
>
> Item 1 Mars Climate Orbiter crashes and burns*
> $327,600,000.00c
>
> So that's about one dollar per citizen - bad start!
What has that to do with English vs. metric?
>
> (OK so in the fifties the Brits made a car engine that had metric bolts
> with imperial heads... )
The Brits are funny about these things, but there's no reason the two
systems can't co-exist, as in fact they did in Britain for many years. And
still do in the U.S.
>
>> Hexadecimal really makes far more sense than metric, and that is closer
>> to the old familiar English systems of measure. You blokes should have
>> stayed with what you had. (Well, except for currency I suppose. But even
>> that had the advantage of being charmingly quaint.)
>>
>
> Well this only works for avoirdupois weight (16 ounces to the pound), but
That, and many units of liquid measure.
> for troy weight there are only 12
Other than jewelers, who cares about Troy weight?
> and for fluid measure 20 fluid ounces to the pint (OK so it is 16 now in
> our former colony, but what do they know about measurement or spelling?).
Certainly as much as the Brits know about it, and they don't even drive on
the right (i.e., correct) side of the road.
>
> As for the pound sterling this is the last currency in the world that has
> any relation to the original pound weight of silver that the Libra (�) in
> Lsd stood for in Roman times. By 1914 there were four ounces (~112g) of
> 92.5% silver to the �, but now one pound will only buy you about 4 to 5g.
> Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling are working hard to reduce this as
> rapidly as possible :-((.
Cheer up, we have Obama working just as hard to the same end over here. We
started debasing our own currency long before Obama of course, but he's
doing what he can to accelerate the process.
(PeteCresswell)
>> Was Pinto the one where the occupants were incinerated if
>> somebody hit it from behind?
>
>That's the one. Probably something of an exaggerated problem, but never
>having been hit in it from behind I can't speak from experience. Of course
>those who *were* incinerated in Pintos wouldn't have considered it an
>exaggeration.
IIRC, the bigwigs at Ford decided not to put in a protective
plate that would have prevented it because it would cost
something like $1.83 more per car than the anticipated legal
judgments by the incinerated.
Nice folks...
--
PeteCresswell
Neil Harrington
> "Neil Harrington" <sec...@illumnati.net> wrote:
>>"J�rgen Exner" <jurg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:2tlkf5dv03jmudhdl...@4ax.com...
>>> "Neil Harrington" <sec...@illumnati.net> wrote:
>>>>And go metric, you mean? There'd be no point to it. Metric is silly for
>>>>most
>>>>ordinary purposes,
>>>
>>> Yeah, right. That's probably the reason why 200+ countries are using it
>>> where there are only 3 that don't.
>>
>>One of the three that doesn't is the world's only remaining superpower.
>>Who
>>cares what they're using in Lower Slobovia or West Bongo-Bongo?
>
> Careful, that is an argument that is backfiring on a big scale. 'The
> rest' is caring less and less about what that 'remaining superpower' is
> doing or not doing in its arrogance and are just moving forward, leaving
> that 'remaining superpower' to its own devices.
Well, "the rest" (of the west) is mighty free with their criticism of the
U.S. -- which is why they love Obama so, the first anti-American American
president -- but they sure know who to come running to when they get their
asses in a sling again, don't they? Maybe *we* should leave all *you* to
your own devices and see how you like that. Let Europe take total
responsibility for defending itself for a change. You know Putin's just an
all-around nice guy, don'tcha?
>
>>>>Hexadecimal really makes far more sense than metric,
>>>
>>> You got 16 fingers? Amazing!
>>
>>If you really need your fingers to count on, I can understand why you
>>think
>>metric is great. For those of us who don't, fingers and toes don't really
>>come into it.
>
> You don't have little children, do you? I wonder how you learned your
> very first steps in counting.
Too long ago for me to remember, but in my entire life we've had plenty of
things besides fingers.
>
>>> And you are fluent in adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing
>>> them, too? Like 3A4F + BE3 * 2D5? Even more amazing!
>>
>>Why is it amazing? You're used to thinking in the decimal system so it
>>seems
>>"natural" and "proper" to you. You need to get rid of the idea that a
>>number
>>system only makes sense if it matches how many fingers you have. The
>>ten-based system isn't really any more logical than a six-based system or
>>for that matter a thirty-based system. It's only comfortable for you
>>because
>>it's what you're used to.
>
> Absolutely! And that is because the decimal system is the one which the
> vast majority of the worlds population grew up with, learned at home and
> in school as their 'native' system, is using every day, and is most
> comfortable using, way more comfortable than hexadezimal or binary or
> any other system. Or how many bills did you receive recently that were
> written in hexadecimal?
> So why would you want to use a base that is alien to everybody except
> for very few specialists, typically from computer science? Or are you
> really writing "3B" inches when writing down a length that is 1 inch
> shorter than 4 feet?
No, I'm perfectly happy with the systems we use. I'm just pointing out that
there's no reason to get rid of English measure when it's useful for so many
things, and it *easily* co-exists with metric and has for many, many years.
Millimeters are useful for some things that would be unwieldy in inches,
such as focal lengths. For longer lenses of course they did use inches, but
there is little if any point to doing that now.
For other things, English measure makes a lot more sense. In the U.S.,
grains are still the standard unit of weight for bulllets and powder, and
are ideal for that. Until a few decades ago, grains were also the standard
unit of weight for most medications. Aspirin for example has come in 5-grain
tablets for generations. Now they are *still* 5-grain tablets but they're
called 325 milligrams. Do you really see any useful purpose or advantage to
having to say "three hundred and twenty-five milligrams" instead of "five
grains"?
>
>>> How many cubic inches are in a gallon, again?
>>
>>Who cares? Is that a question that comes up often in your life?
>
> Every single time I want to build a container of some sort. How large do
> I have to build the sides such that it will hold x gallons of liquid?
You really *do* that a lot? *Why*?
>
>>> How many tea spoon are in
>>> one cubic foot of water? And how many inches are there to a mile? And
>>> how high can I lift 1 pound with the energy provided by 1 BTU in 1 hour?
>>> And do you even know how a furlong by a chain is commonly called today?
>>
>>Same answer to all those questions: Who cares? Conversely, what good does
>>it
>>do you to know how many millimeters there are in a kilometer? Why would
>>you
>>ever need to know that?
>
> E.g. in my recent pilot exam: given a glide slope of 1:12 how many feet
> of altitude are you loosing in 5 miles?
> My solution: convert those fucking 5 miles into kilometers (I knew that
> conversion), divide by 12, move the decimal 3 digits to get meters, and
> convert into feet (I knew that conversion). I got the right solution.
Easier: 5 x 5280 / 12. Why go through all that other bullshit? You can do a
quick approximation in your head and see that it's something over 2000 feet,
2100 feet or so.
>
> According to your statement above this is actually the only way because
> according to you you would never need to know how many feet there are in
> a mile. Besides, how on earth can possibly remember those odd numbers
> anyway?
I don't think I know anyone who doesn't know there are 5280 feet in a mile,
unless you're talking about nautical miles. Speaking of which, don't you use
knots as a measure of airspeed? They aren't metric.
Neither is time. If you really think metric is so great, why not do
something about those pesky 60-second minutes, 60-minute hours and 24-hour
days? Wouldn't you rather have *everything* go by orders of ten? Wow, what a
wonderful metricized world that would be!
>
>>The metric system on the other hand is loaded with *perfectly useless*
>>units
>>of measure, all because of the nonsensical 19th-century notion that
>>everything should progress by orders of ten, whether it served any useful
>>purpose or not.
>>
>>When's the last time you had occasion to measure anything by decameters?
>><snort>
>>
>>Or decimeters, for that matter? Don't get them confused now!
>
> Yeah, if you've never used it then obviously you don't know that they
> are never used. And no, just because you could be stupid and use those
> multiples it doesn't mean you have to be so stupid to use them.
>
> People are using 10m instead of 1dam and 0.1m or 10cm instead of 1dm.
>
>>Ever use drops, such as eye drops? Can you tell me how much one drop is in
>>metric?
>
> And can you tell me how many drops there are in a quart?
Why would anyone care? The point is, drops are still used as a unit of
liquid measure and they are not metric.
Neil Harrington
You can say that again. I think gold is up again today, which is really just
another way of saying the dollar is down some more today.
Neil Harrington
"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote in message
I remember reading something like that. That may be a little simplistic,
though. I don't know.
tony cooper
There are comments on various websites that say that Ford was
unwilling to spend the money for a design change to prevent the
problem. It smacks of urban myth to me.
For Ford to be able to pin-point the cost of the added plate, they
would have had to be able to predict the problem in the initial design
stage. That doesn't sound reasonable even for greedy corporate types.
If Ford declined to retro-fit extant models, or re-fit by recall, the
cost would have been a great deal more per unit than $1.83.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
J�rgen Exner
>Easier: 5 x 5280 / 12. Why go through all that other bullshit?
Because 5280 is such a nice number in the hexadezimal system that
everyone will know it. NOT.
>> According to your statement above this is actually the only way because
>> according to you you would never need to know how many feet there are in
>> a mile. Besides, how on earth can possibly remember those odd numbers
>> anyway?
>
>I don't think I know anyone who doesn't know there are 5280 feet in a mile,
Well, you do now.
>unless you're talking about nautical miles. Speaking of which, don't you use
>knots as a measure of airspeed? They aren't metric.
You seem to be somewhat confused. Nautical miles and thus knots are part
of the ISO system (aka 'metric') although obviously they are not decimal
based.
>Neither is time. If you really think metric is so great, why not do
>something about those pesky 60-second minutes, 60-minute hours and 24-hour
>days? Wouldn't you rather have *everything* go by orders of ten? Wow, what a
>wonderful metricized world that would be!
Again you are confused. The common time is part of ISO (aka 'metric')
although obviously not decimal (or hexadecimal for that matter).
>> And can you tell me how many drops there are in a quart?
>
>Why would anyone care?
Mabye because they want to know how long their bottle of eyedrops (size
10 tablespoons just to pick a number) will last?
>The point is, drops are still used as a unit of
>liquid measure and they are not metric.
Well, and when I order a cup of coffee in a restaurant I do not expect
to be served exactly 1/4 quart of coffee. So cup is still used as unit
of liquid measure although the amount measured is not imperial, either.
jue
J. Clarke
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:01:49 -0500, "Neil Harrington"
> <sec...@illumnati.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote in message
>> news:47emf5pj8g53hhkoc...@4ax.com...
>>> Per Neil Harrington:
>>>>> Was Pinto the one where the occupants were incinerated if
>>>>> somebody hit it from behind?
>>>>
>>>> That's the one. Probably something of an exaggerated problem, but
>>>> never having been hit in it from behind I can't speak from
>>>> experience. Of course those who *were* incinerated in Pintos
>>>> wouldn't have considered it an exaggeration.
>>>
>>> IIRC, the bigwigs at Ford decided not to put in a protective
>>> plate that would have prevented it because it would cost
>>> something like $1.83 more per car than the anticipated legal
>>> judgments by the incinerated.
>>>
>>> Nice folks...
>>
>> I remember reading something like that. That may be a little
>> simplistic, though. I don't know.
>>
> There are comments on various websites that say that Ford was
> unwilling to spend the money for a design change to prevent the
> problem. It smacks of urban myth to me.
It's a very well known case.
> For Ford to be able to pin-point the cost of the added plate, they
> would have had to be able to predict the problem in the initial design
> stage. That doesn't sound reasonable even for greedy corporate types.
Why would they have had to be aware of the problem in the initial design?
There is this process called "testing" that is intended to detect problems
that escaped the designers.
> If Ford declined to retro-fit extant models, or re-fit by recall, the
> cost would have been a great deal more per unit than $1.83.
They in fact considered a number of different alternatives and decided not
to do anything on the basis that doing nothing and paying off any lawsuits
was cheaper than fixing the problem. This was proven in court in the rather
famous "Gray v. Ford" case tried in the Sacramenton Superior Court and
upheld by the court of appeals (note that the case is also known as
"Grimshaw v. Ford", as Gray died during the course of the litigation), with
the result of a 125 million dollar punitive damages award, then a record
high, later reduced to 3.5 million.
The trial transcript does not seem to be online anywhere, but these matters
are also covered in the apellate court ruling, which states that it was
shown in court that upon Ford becoming aware in tests of the existence of
the problem they considered and rejected a variety of modifications ranging
in cost from $1.89 to $9.95 per car. A copy of the appellate court ruling
can be found at http://guweb2.gonzaga.edu/~dewolf/torts/pdf/Grimshaw.pdf.
(PeteCresswell)
>If Ford declined to retro-fit extant models, or re-fit by recall, the
>cost would have been a great deal more per unit than $1.83.
$1.83 (or whatever amount) would have been the difference:
between making the modification and the anticipated injury/death
judgments.
I remember reading about it when people were actually getting
burned - gory pics and all. I don't think it's urban legend.
Garbled, maybe, but not completely legend.
--
PeteCresswell
Neil Harrington
> "Neil Harrington" <sec...@illumnati.net> wrote:
>>Easier: 5 x 5280 / 12. Why go through all that other bullshit?
>
> Because 5280 is such a nice number in the hexadezimal system that
> everyone will know it. NOT.
>
>>> According to your statement above this is actually the only way because
>>> according to you you would never need to know how many feet there are in
>>> a mile. Besides, how on earth can possibly remember those odd numbers
>>> anyway?
>>
>>I don't think I know anyone who doesn't know there are 5280 feet in a
>>mile,
>
> Well, you do now.
Okay, I should have said "any American." It's pretty basic in this country.
>
>>unless you're talking about nautical miles. Speaking of which, don't you
>>use
>>knots as a measure of airspeed? They aren't metric.
>
> You seem to be somewhat confused. Nautical miles and thus knots are part
> of the ISO system (aka 'metric') although obviously they are not decimal
> based.
Neither nautical miles nor knots have anything to do with the metric system
as far as I can see. The nautical mile is based on some angular distance, I
think one minute, at the earth's surface. Nothing to do with the kilometer
or any other multiple of the meter, and I think the nautical mile existed
before the metric system came along anway.
>
>>Neither is time. If you really think metric is so great, why not do
>>something about those pesky 60-second minutes, 60-minute hours and 24-hour
>>days? Wouldn't you rather have *everything* go by orders of ten? Wow, what
>>a
>>wonderful metricized world that would be!
>
> Again you are confused. The common time is part of ISO (aka 'metric')
> although obviously not decimal (or hexadecimal for that matter).
Right. Not decimal and therefore not part of the metric system of
measurement. The business of dividing time and other things, such as
circles, by 6s and 60s goes back to the Babylonians and/or Sumerians, which
is to say, several millennia before the metric system existed.
>
>>> And can you tell me how many drops there are in a quart?
>>
>>Why would anyone care?
>
> Mabye because they want to know how long their bottle of eyedrops (size
> 10 tablespoons just to pick a number) will last?
The answer to that is "until the bottle is empty." I have never heard anyone
raise that question about eye drops. The drop is a unit of liquid measure
that I believe is universal even though it's not a definite volume, which
I'm sure must vary slightly according to the surface tension, specific
gravity and viscosity of the liequid being dispensed.
>
>>The point is, drops are still used as a unit of
>>liquid measure and they are not metric.
>
> Well, and when I order a cup of coffee in a restaurant I do not expect
> to be served exactly 1/4 quart of coffee. So cup is still used as unit
> of liquid measure although the amount measured is not imperial, either.
As a unit of liquid measure, the cup is what it is and does not have any
particular relationship to the amount of coffee you're served in a cup.
Ray Fischer
> R. Mark Clayton
>> Back in the early 80's IIRC Texas brought out the first hexadecimal
>> calculator (also did decimal, octal and binary). Common in programming
>> dept's.
>
>nope, the hp-16c was the first in 1982. hp also had the 15c which did
>complex arithmetic and the hp-41c which could do pretty much anything.
Alas, the 16c is not made anymore. I still have mine and treat it
well since the price of a used one is somewhere around $400.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
>
>"J�rgen Exner" <jurg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:to5mf5he88r5n6j2o...@4ax.com...
>> "Neil Harrington" <sec...@illumnati.net> wrote:
>>>"J�rgen Exner" <jurg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:2tlkf5dv03jmudhdl...@4ax.com...
>>>> "Neil Harrington" <sec...@illumnati.net> wrote:
>>>>>And go metric, you mean? There'd be no point to it. Metric is silly for
>>>>>most
>>>>>ordinary purposes,
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, right. That's probably the reason why 200+ countries are using it
>>>> where there are only 3 that don't.
>>>
>>>One of the three that doesn't is the world's only remaining superpower.
>>>Who
>>>cares what they're using in Lower Slobovia or West Bongo-Bongo?
>>
>> Careful, that is an argument that is backfiring on a big scale. 'The
>> rest' is caring less and less about what that 'remaining superpower' is
>> doing or not doing in its arrogance and are just moving forward, leaving
>> that 'remaining superpower' to its own devices.
>
>Well, "the rest" (of the west) is mighty free with their criticism of the
>U.S. -- which is why they love Obama so, the first anti-American American
>president -
And there is the rabid hatred of the rightard bigot.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
J�rgen Exner
>"J�rgen Exner" <jurg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:rbmmf5pai8fmukirg...@4ax.com...
>> "Neil Harrington" <sec...@illumnati.net> wrote:
>>>Easier: 5 x 5280 / 12. Why go through all that other bullshit?
>>
>> Because 5280 is such a nice number in the hexadezimal system that
>> everyone will know it. NOT.
>>
>>>> According to your statement above this is actually the only way because
>>>> according to you you would never need to know how many feet there are in
>>>> a mile. Besides, how on earth can possibly remember those odd numbers
>>>> anyway?
>>>
>>>I don't think I know anyone who doesn't know there are 5280 feet in a
>>>mile,
>>
>> Well, you do now.
>
>Okay, I should have said "any American." It's pretty basic in this country.
>
>>>unless you're talking about nautical miles. Speaking of which, don't you
>>>use
>>>knots as a measure of airspeed? They aren't metric.
>>
>> You seem to be somewhat confused. Nautical miles and thus knots are part
>> of the ISO system (aka 'metric') although obviously they are not decimal
>> based.
>
>Neither nautical miles nor knots have anything to do with the metric system
>as far as I can see.
They are admitted in the metric system as historical and still widely
used units.
>The nautical mile is based on some angular distance, I
>think one minute, at the earth's surface. Nothing to do with the kilometer
>or any other multiple of the meter, and I think the nautical mile existed
>before the metric system came along anway.
Of course. But they have been incorporated into the "Syst�me
International d'Unit�s".
>>>Neither is time. If you really think metric is so great, why not do
>>>something about those pesky 60-second minutes, 60-minute hours and 24-hour
>>>days? Wouldn't you rather have *everything* go by orders of ten? Wow, what
>>>a
>>>wonderful metricized world that would be!
>>
>> Again you are confused. The common time is part of ISO (aka 'metric')
>> although obviously not decimal (or hexadecimal for that matter).
>
>Right. Not decimal and therefore not part of the metric system of
>measurement.
Then please explain _YOUR_ definition of 'metric'.
In normal use 'metric' refers to the 'Syst�me International d'Unit�s',
as defined in ISO 31 and its derivatives. The nautical mile (and thus
the knot) is recognized and admitted as a traditional unit in this
system. As is of course the second/minute/hour/day time measurement.
Therefore I can only repeat: you are confused about the relation between
the metric system and the decimal system.
>The business of dividing time and other things, such as
>circles, by 6s and 60s goes back to the Babylonians and/or Sumerians, which
>is to say, several millennia before the metric system existed.
Sure, no argument. But what does that have to do with the metric system?
Bill Graham
> "Neil Harrington" <sec...@illumnati.net> wrote:
>>"J�rgen Exner" <jurg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:2tlkf5dv03jmudhdl...@4ax.com...
>>> "Neil Harrington" <sec...@illumnati.net> wrote:
>>>>And go metric, you mean? There'd be no point to it. Metric is silly for
>>>>most
>>>>ordinary purposes,
>>>
>>> Yeah, right. That's probably the reason why 200+ countries are using it
>>> where there are only 3 that don't.
>>
>>One of the three that doesn't is the world's only remaining superpower.
>>Who
>>cares what they're using in Lower Slobovia or West Bongo-Bongo?
>
> Careful, that is an argument that is backfiring on a big scale. 'The
> rest' is caring less and less about what that 'remaining superpower' is
> doing or not doing in its arrogance and are just moving forward, leaving
> that 'remaining superpower' to its own devices.
Nonsense! The young people in the rest of the world will always be
mesmerized by the pop culture of the superpowers.....For some inexplicable
reason, they are attracted to our miserable teenage singers and guitar
players......Nothing we can come up with is too tasteless for the worlds
teenagers to moon over......
Bill Graham
>
> "R. Mark Clayton" <nospam...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:s72dnR0m5on4k2bX...@bt.com...
>>
>> "Neil Harrington" <sec...@illumnati.net> wrote in message
>> news:W8-dnQ16jqYTl2fX...@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "R. Mark Clayton" <nospam...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>>> news:OLmdnQWi2eLSIGTX...@bt.com...
>>>>
>> SNIP
>>>>
>
>
>>>>
>>>> Even though the Yanks left the Empire they still won't join the rest of
>>>> the world.
>>>
>>> And go metric, you mean? There'd be no point to it. Metric is silly for
>>> most ordinary purposes, and it would cost billions to change everything.
>>
>> Well what about the cost of not changing it?
>>
>> Item 1 Mars Climate Orbiter crashes and burns*
>> $327,600,000.00c
>>
>> So that's about one dollar per citizen - bad start!
>
> What has that to do with English vs. metric?
>
>>
>> (OK so in the fifties the Brits made a car engine that had metric bolts
>> with imperial heads... )
>
> The Brits are funny about these things, but there's no reason the two
> systems can't co-exist, as in fact they did in Britain for many years. And
> still do in the U.S.
Yes. We tried to "go metric", but when you ask a manufacturer to trade in
his $30,000 machine lathes and milling machines for a new one just because
it's metric calibrated, you will find a lot of resistance......Most decent
machine shops can work with any measurement system. That's what pocket
calculators are for.....
Bill Graham
double in the next 5 or 6 years......Do you hear that rumble coming from the
East coast late at night? That's the sound of Obama's printing presses
printing $20 bills......And every one he prints makes my savings shrink a
little in buying power. (and yours too) The lousy 7-1/2 per cent the stock
market yields can't even begin to keep up.
Bill Graham
the problem.....It turned out to be cheaper that way.....Actually, not a bad
decision, especially if you are an Objectivist. There is no way to make any
car completely safe, so the best you can do is to follow the money. The
alternative is to crowd all of us into padded cells........
Bill Graham
>
> "J�rgen Exner" <jurg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
circumference.....That is, the meter was defined as some distance on the
earth's surface....After that, the subdivision of the meter, and its
expansion, were based on factors of ten and ergo the metric system was born.
But the original meter was some arbitrary measurement based on the Earth's
surface......
pat
as the FPLA require non-metric units on labels for almost every
prepacked thing (bottle, box, package) you see in the supermarket.
Manufacturers such as Proctor & Gamble have been lobbying to change
the law so they can use metric-only labels without being prosecuted.
The 2 liter soda bottle is traded worldwide with a label that says it
contains 2 liters but it's forbidden to sell one in the US if it
doesn't have state the size in pints and ounces.
Neil Harrington
>
> "Neil Harrington" <sec...@illumnati.net> wrote in message
> news:qsydnQ67t4093GbX...@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Bill Graham" <we...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:6b6dnQhWaqiOimbX...@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Neil Harrington" <sec...@illumnati.net> wrote in message
>>> news:65udnU_MUZedlmbX...@giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, he is. Most of the drooling dingbats who so eagerly jumped on the
>>>> Obama Kool-Aid wagon are really out of sorts these days. And will
>>>> become increasingly so as time goes by. Tsk tsk.
>>>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, financially, we will all be, "out of sorts" by the time
>>> Obama is ushered out of office. The dollar will be out of sorts......
>>
>> You can say that again. I think gold is up again today, which is really
>> just another way of saying the dollar is down some more today.
>>
> Yes. At $1100 an ounce, gold is still a good buy right now.....It has to
> double in the next 5 or 6 years......Do you hear that rumble coming from
> the East coast late at night? That's the sound of Obama's printing presses
> printing $20 bills......And every one he prints makes my savings shrink a
> little in buying power. (and yours too) The lousy 7-1/2 per cent the stock
> market yields can't even begin to keep up.
Well, the stock market has done very well since hitting the bottom March 9,
and I made back about half of what I lost the previous year or so (in
dollars, at least). My equity funds are up 72% to 110% since 3/9, and 38% to
54% on the year (as of yesterday's close) -- and that ain't bad. But Obama
seems determined to destroy the market one way or another, and if the
Congress lets him I'm sure he will. Our only hope is that his agenda will be
delayed long enough for us to get a better Congress in there.
Neil Harrington
"J锟絩gen Exner" <jurg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4d4nf59cf4ccom1du...@4ax.com...
> "Neil Harrington" <sec...@illumnati.net> wrote:
>>"J锟絩gen Exner" <jurg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> International d'Unit锟絪".
That still doesn't make them metric. It only means that some existing units
of measurement are recognized and co-exist with metric -- which is what I've
been saying.
>
>>>>Neither is time. If you really think metric is so great, why not do
>>>>something about those pesky 60-second minutes, 60-minute hours and
>>>>24-hour
>>>>days? Wouldn't you rather have *everything* go by orders of ten? Wow,
>>>>what
>>>>a
>>>>wonderful metricized world that would be!
>>>
>>> Again you are confused. The common time is part of ISO (aka 'metric')
>>> although obviously not decimal (or hexadecimal for that matter).
>>
>>Right. Not decimal and therefore not part of the metric system of
>>measurement.
>
> Then please explain _YOUR_ definition of 'metric'.
Based on the meter, exactly as the term indicates. Units of length and
volume are metric (or not) on that basis. Units of mass are metric when
based on the mass of some metric volume of water under standard conditions.
>
> In normal use 'metric' refers to the 'Syst锟絤e International d'Unit锟絪',
> as defined in ISO 31 and its derivatives. The nautical mile (and thus
> the knot) is recognized and admitted as a traditional unit in this
> system. As is of course the second/minute/hour/day time measurement.
>
> Therefore I can only repeat: you are confused about the relation between
> the metric system and the decimal system.
Both are what they are. The fact that an international body "recognizes" and
"admits" non-metric units of measurement because it would be irrational not
to admit or recognize them, does not make those units metric by any
reasonable definition. The nautical mile is not based on the meter and
therefore is non-metric. Seconds, minutes, hours, etc. are obviously not
metric and cannot possibly be metric.
>
>>The business of dividing time and other things, such as
>>circles, by 6s and 60s goes back to the Babylonians and/or Sumerians,
>>which
>>is to say, several millennia before the metric system existed.
>
> Sure, no argument. But what does that have to do with the metric system?
Absolutely nothing, which is the point. Our system of measuring time and
angles has nothing whatever to do with the metric system. Again: the fact
that an international body "recognizes" and "admits" non-metric units for
purposes of working with metric calculations does not make the non-metric
units metric.
Neil Harrington
>
> "Neil Harrington" <sec...@illumnati.net> wrote in message
> news:baednajj7tOd9mbX...@giganews.com...
>>
Right. I don't remember exactly how they arrived at it, but the meter (on
which everything metric is based) was itself based on some dimension of the
earth.
Neil Harrington
So it seems, yes.
Bill Graham
was drawing 1/2 of 1 % out of the market every month, or about 6% a
year......I assumed that my principal would not change, and I would leave
over 1/2 million to my kids when I died. Today, I am only worth around 1/2
million, and I am drawing over 1 % per month out of my IRA, so I am looking
at being broke in 5 to 8 years. With any luck, I will be dead by then, but I
sure won't be leaving anything to my kids......I would have been better off
trading all my stocks for gold back in 1998. I may still be better off doing
the same thing today.
Bill Graham
>
> "J�rgen Exner" <jurg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>"J�rgen Exner" <jurg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> International d'Unit�s".
>
> That still doesn't make them metric. It only means that some existing
> units of measurement are recognized and co-exist with metric -- which is
> what I've been saying.
>
>>
>>>>>Neither is time. If you really think metric is so great, why not do
>>>>>something about those pesky 60-second minutes, 60-minute hours and
>>>>>24-hour
>>>>>days? Wouldn't you rather have *everything* go by orders of ten? Wow,
>>>>>what
>>>>>a
>>>>>wonderful metricized world that would be!
>>>>
>>>> Again you are confused. The common time is part of ISO (aka 'metric')
>>>> although obviously not decimal (or hexadecimal for that matter).
>>>
>>>Right. Not decimal and therefore not part of the metric system of
>>>measurement.
>>
>> Then please explain _YOUR_ definition of 'metric'.
>
> Based on the meter, exactly as the term indicates. Units of length and
> volume are metric (or not) on that basis. Units of mass are metric when
> based on the mass of some metric volume of water under standard
> conditions.
>
>>
>> as defined in ISO 31 and its derivatives. The nautical mile (and thus
>> the knot) is recognized and admitted as a traditional unit in this
>> system. As is of course the second/minute/hour/day time measurement.
>>
>> Therefore I can only repeat: you are confused about the relation between
>> the metric system and the decimal system.
>
> Both are what they are. The fact that an international body "recognizes"
> and "admits" non-metric units of measurement because it would be
> irrational not to admit or recognize them, does not make those units
> metric by any reasonable definition. The nautical mile is not based on the
> meter and therefore is non-metric. Seconds, minutes, hours, etc. are
> obviously not metric and cannot possibly be metric.
>
>>
>>>The business of dividing time and other things, such as
>>>circles, by 6s and 60s goes back to the Babylonians and/or Sumerians,
>>>which
>>>is to say, several millennia before the metric system existed.
>>
>> Sure, no argument. But what does that have to do with the metric system?
>
> Absolutely nothing, which is the point. Our system of measuring time and
> angles has nothing whatever to do with the metric system. Again: the fact
> that an international body "recognizes" and "admits" non-metric units for
> purposes of working with metric calculations does not make the non-metric
> units metric.
>
>
Any bridge player can tell you that 13 times 4 is 52. This would be a much
better system than the stupid 12 months in a year system we have now. We
would still need a leap year day once every 4 years, but otherwise, all
months would be the same.