F11
1/30th
Diffusion filter used to soften and add a soft halo effect.
Reduced 50% for web posting.
I found the test helpful... and interesting. The CD1000 has so much depth of
field at F11 that I you can see the soft spots on the diffusion filter.
(most noticable over the white sweater) I couple of the shots were ruined as
a spot fell over an eye and made it fuzzy. I need to look for another type
of diffusion filter or need to use a lesser Fstop.
The CD1000 is lots of fun in the studio, only draw back is the dark view
finder at F11. So to help in this area, I used auto-focus at nearly wide
open, turned off auto focus and stopped down to F11 to take the shot. Still
not bad at all for a budget digicam.
Just out of curiosity, why F/11 at 1/30th? I'd have gone for a
shallow DOF and faster shutter, say f/4 @ 1/250 or f/5.6 at 1/125. Not
being critical, just curious.
Larry
"POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
http://www.uncle-larry.com
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
------------------------------------------------//
On Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:38:51 GMT, "Ron K" <rojo...@NOSPAM.home.com>
wrote:
I never change Fstop in the camera room, this doesn't mean I couldn't. It's
just not practicle in a busy portrait enviornment. I know the distance of
all lights to the subject for my normal exposure. To adjust to F4 or 5.6 I
would need to pull the main light away from the subject. (this makes the
light source more distant and smaller - making it harsher) to not have this
problem, I can leave the main light the same distance and cut the power from
the strobe. I would then need to meter each shot, to set the strobe to the
proper fstop power output. (time consuming and also not practicle when I
human subject is posed and waiting). For this reason most pro's put a string
on the front of their lights. Which shows the distance the light needs to be
from the subject for the selected Fstop. (in my case 8.5 for film or F11 for
CD1000).
If I was to use the CD1000 all the time in the camera room, it would be wise
to adjust the power and find a better fstop for my needs. But I don't really
plan to use it in the studio. I've only done a couple tests with it. (nice
to know how well the CD1000 will perform in the event that I might need to
use the digital camera for a fast exposure/print out situation.
Another problem with reducing the power of the main light is - all the other
lights used in the portrait setup are set to give the desired results with
the main light at F11. If I change the main light to F4 and take the shot.
The other lights will appear "to hot" and would ruin the shot and the
lighting ratio. So each of these lights needs to be adjust down the same
amount that the main light be reduced. (again a hassle to meter each light
for quicky tests like these). If I do use the digital camera, I'd rather
not change my lighting setup for the single digital application. (changing
things un-neccessarily in a professional portrait enviornment makes for
possible errors - if forgetting to change everything back.) If I change
lights for the CD1000 - then film jobs continue and I forget to restore all
settings properly. I could shoot paying jobs for 2-3 days without knowing
that I forgot to make a proper adjustment back. (possibly ruining these
jobs) for this reason over the years of owning and operating my studio I've
learned not to change things unless absolutely necessary.
I suppose I could zoom the CD1000 lens in more and step further back from
the subject to lessen the depth of field. This might be the easiest and best
solution to a fairly minor problem. The other is to find a different type
of diffusion filter. To shallow of dof would make the background go to far
out of focus (it's distance to subject would need to be changed and tested
for desired results) and other problems arise, eyes in focus, nose out, or
eyes and nose in focus and ears, shoulders out hair near the back of the
head out of focus too. Very shallow dof as a result of F4 or so generally
gives unprofessional looking results. How ever I do use F4 when doing
outdoor available light portrait work. (with 6x7 camera and 127mm lens) this
allows me to get the subject in focus while dropping the background out of
focus.
I hope this answers your question...
P.S. 1/30th was used because it is the slowest shutter speed the camera
will use when in Aperture priority mode. (full manual mode isn't a feature
on the CD1000) So I am limited to AP mode. This is a good feature (that the
camera doesn't slow the shutter speed any slower and try to make a proper
exposure for F11 - since this would leave the shutter open for a long length
of time and cause extensive motion blur. (camera was hand held).
"Larry Richards" <larr...@uncle-larry.com> wrote in message
news:if62tsc7vnlhht9pa...@4ax.com...
Larry
"POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
http://www.uncle-larry.com
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
------------------------------------------------//
On Tue, 26 Sep 2000 23:14:41 GMT, "Ron K" <rojo...@NOSPAM.home.com>
So what do you do in the studio if you want to blur the background?
You could move it further back out of the DOF of a f8 or f11 if you
have the space I suppose. But I figure you would just open up your
lens and proportionally reduce your light outputs.
In article <B5aA5.11227$hD4.2...@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
>Subject: Re: CD1000 studio portrait test(2)
>From: geoffr...@my-deja.com
>
>So what do you do in the studio if you want to blur the background?
>You could move it further back out of the DOF of a f8 or f11 if you
>have the space I suppose. But I figure you would just open up your
>lens and proportionally reduce your light outputs.
Visit my albums here:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=166846&a=6328284
Regards, Jim
Hey thanks for the informative reply Jim. Yeah, I'm kinda struggling
with that issue myself. I'm running a group of monolights and it is
really is a pain trying to get them all balanced just so and
rebalancing them for different setups.
In article <20000927155458...@ng-fv1.aol.com>,
> >So what do you do in the studio if you want to blur the background?
> >You could move it further back out of the DOF of a f8 or f11 if you
> >have the space I suppose. But I figure you would just open up your
> >lens and proportionally reduce your light outputs.
>
> Visit my albums here:
> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=166846&a=6328284
> Regards, Jim
>
>
>
>Hey thanks for the informative reply Jim. Yeah, I'm kinda struggling
>with that issue myself. I'm running a group of monolights and it is
>really is a pain trying to get them all balanced just so and
>rebalancing them for different setups.
In this regard, the central pack system excells with just one
capacitor to charge and discharge. At tleast if there is to be
variation from shot to shot it should be distributed fairly evenly
over all the lights. If you run an older pack unit as I do , I just
get a one stop reduction at the box and one or two at the heads
depending on the head in use, from there I have to gell.
I'm not big on locking into f11, I shoot f11 but I prefer f8 or
sometimes 5.6 in medium format.
David Grabowski
>> >So what do you do in the studio if you want to blur the background?
>> >You could move it further back out of the DOF of a f8 or f11 if you
>> >have the space I suppose. But I figure you would just open up your
>> >lens and proportionally reduce your light outputs.
>>
>> Visit my albums here:
>> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=166846&a=6328284
>> Regards, Jim
>>
>
>
Larry
"POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
http://www.uncle-larry.com
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
------------------------------------------------//
On Tue, 26 Sep 2000 23:14:41 GMT, "Ron K" <rojo...@NOSPAM.home.com>
wrote:
>With strobes shutter speed is irrelivant, exposure is made by the strobe
In testing the CD1000 in the studio I had a massive change in depth of
field. Which would be assumed. But not to the point of allowing a diffusion
filter to come into focus. (a bit of a surprise). Though the lenses on
digital cameras tend to have massive depth of field.
<geoffr...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8qtek8$bpt$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
While shooting 400-500 graduation seniors a season - there is no time for
metering lights during or between sessions. Heck there isn't time for lunch
or breaks of any type.
<geoffr...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8qtl41$i3g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
>
> Hey thanks for the informative reply Jim. Yeah, I'm kinda struggling
> with that issue myself. I'm running a group of monolights and it is
> really is a pain trying to get them all balanced just so and
> rebalancing them for different setups.
>
>
>
> > >So what do you do in the studio if you want to blur the background?
> > >You could move it further back out of the DOF of a f8 or f11 if you
> > >have the space I suppose. But I figure you would just open up your
> > >lens and proportionally reduce your light outputs.
> >
> > Visit my albums here:
> > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=166846&a=6328284
> > Regards, Jim
> >
>
>
"David Grabowski" <nim...@capecod.net> wrote in message
news:39d26347....@newshost.capecod.net...
> On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 20:25:47 GMT, geoffr...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Hey thanks for the informative reply Jim. Yeah, I'm kinda struggling
> >with that issue myself. I'm running a group of monolights and it is
> >really is a pain trying to get them all balanced just so and
> >rebalancing them for different setups.
>
> In this regard, the central pack system excells with just one
> capacitor to charge and discharge. At tleast if there is to be
> variation from shot to shot it should be distributed fairly evenly
> over all the lights. If you run an older pack unit as I do , I just
> get a one stop reduction at the box and one or two at the heads
> depending on the head in use, from there I have to gell.
>
> I'm not big on locking into f11, I shoot f11 but I prefer f8 or
> sometimes 5.6 in medium format.
>
> David Grabowski
> >
> >
> >> >So what do you do in the studio if you want to blur the background?
> >> >You could move it further back out of the DOF of a f8 or f11 if you
> >> >have the space I suppose. But I figure you would just open up your
> >> >lens and proportionally reduce your light outputs.
> >>
> >> Visit my albums here:
> >> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=166846&a=6328284
> >> Regards, Jim
> >>
> >
> >
"Larry Richards" <larr...@uncle-larry.com> wrote in message
news:ij15ts87clcq1cn6q...@4ax.com...
> With this statement below, I am assuming you don't have a focal plane
> shutter! I use to have a camera with a leaf shutter. I liked it. I
> don't remember which one it was, but I think it was a Kowa 2.25.
>
> Larry
>
> "POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
>
> http://www.uncle-larry.com
> http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
>
> Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
>
> Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
>
> ------------------------------------------------//
>
>
Larry
"POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
http://www.uncle-larry.com
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
------------------------------------------------//
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 01:41:17 GMT, "Ron K" <rojo...@NOSPAM.home.com>
"Larry Richards" <larr...@uncle-larry.com> wrote in message
news:qve6tskltb46gmjfh...@4ax.com...
> Then one of two things on the 1000, it has a leaf shutter or it
> electronically controls the CCD. I've read that they can control the
> "shutter" function via turning on and off the CCD.
>
> Larry
>
> "POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
>
> http://www.uncle-larry.com
> http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
>
> Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
>
> Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
>
> ------------------------------------------------//
>
>
> On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 01:41:17 GMT, "Ron K" <rojo...@NOSPAM.home.com>
Larry
"POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
http://www.uncle-larry.com
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
------------------------------------------------//
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:23:52 GMT, "Ron K" <rojo...@NOSPAM.home.com>
wrote:
>My 35mm film cameras sync at 1/500th why shouldn't a digital camera? Is
>this abnormal? Don't other digital cameras sync at all shutter speeds?
>
>
>"Larry Richards" <larr...@uncle-larry.com> wrote in message
>news:qve6tskltb46gmjfh...@4ax.com...
>> Then one of two things on the 1000, it has a leaf shutter or it
>> electronically controls the CCD. I've read that they can control the
>> "shutter" function via turning on and off the CCD.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>> "POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
>>
>> http://www.uncle-larry.com
>> http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
>>
>> Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
>>
>> Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------//
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 01:41:17 GMT, "Ron K" <rojo...@NOSPAM.home.com>
About two months ago, I had the chance of shooting next to a professional
photographer in a studio. She was using strobes and a medium format camera
with a Polaroid and slide film back. I was using a Nikon Coolpix 990.
The lights were very bright and I had problems getting the aperture
small enough. I was just a guest, so adjusting the lights was totally
out of the question.
In the end, I used my polarizing filter to reduce the amount of light.
It helped a lot, but I still had to zoom in to keep the aperture small.
Anyway, I wish I had had neutral gray filters then. You could use
neutral gray filters to get to a better aperture range and reduce
the depth of field.
The models were very happy with the photos I took. I think the
pro was rather impressed as well.
--
Juri Munkki jmu...@iki.fi What you see isn't all you get.
http://www.iki.fi/jmunkki Windsurfing: Faster than the wind.
"Larry Richards" <larr...@uncle-larry.com> wrote in message
news:pfe7tsci3mslmhvra...@4ax.com...
> Those that have horizontal focal plane shutters sync at 1/60th or
> slower, those with vertical focal plane shutters sync at 1/125th or
> slower.
>
> Larry
>
> "POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
>
> http://www.uncle-larry.com
> http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
>
> Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
>
> Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
>
> ------------------------------------------------//
>
>
> On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:23:52 GMT, "Ron K" <rojo...@NOSPAM.home.com>
> wrote:
>
> >My 35mm film cameras sync at 1/500th why shouldn't a digital camera? Is
> >this abnormal? Don't other digital cameras sync at all shutter speeds?
> >
> >
> >"Larry Richards" <larr...@uncle-larry.com> wrote in message
> >news:qve6tskltb46gmjfh...@4ax.com...
> >> Then one of two things on the 1000, it has a leaf shutter or it
> >> electronically controls the CCD. I've read that they can control the
> >> "shutter" function via turning on and off the CCD.
> >>
> >> Larry
> >>
> >> "POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
> >>
> >> http://www.uncle-larry.com
> >> http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
> >>
> >> Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
> >>
> >> Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------//
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 01:41:17 GMT, "Ron K" <rojo...@NOSPAM.home.com>
Pro light setups tend to be bright. (We like smaller fstops).
> In the end, I used my polarizing filter to reduce the amount of light.
> It helped a lot, but I still had to zoom in to keep the aperture small.
This was good thinking on your part. I had thought about doing this on the
CD1000, but wouldn't be wise for CD1000 users, since the biggest problem
I've found with the CD1000 (not sure if this is the case with other
digicams) is when forcing the fstop closed (using aperture priority) such as
in this case F/11 - for stobes that will only be bright for the instant of
exposure... closing the lens down in a dark room. (the camera room is quite
dark and is only lighting the subject with fairly weak modeling lights) that
it's really difficult to see through the viewfinder as it appear VERY DARK.
When shooting the portrait at the link at the start of this thead. I could
barely make out the subject through the view finder.
When using strobes or it's built in pop up flash, we're usually doing so
because light is low. So if we want to use a decent Fstop (f8, F11 etc)
we're forced to look through an extremely dark viewfinder. Making
composition very difficult.
To lighten the viewfinder, we can set the CD1000 to "twilight or twilight+
modes" which allows for slower shutter speeds and brightens the view finder
considerably. (but then the camera is picking it's own f-stop, which we
usually don't want when using external strobes.
> Anyway, I wish I had had neutral gray filters then. You could use
> neutral gray filters to get to a better aperture range and reduce
> the depth of field.
Yes - but would probably loose my view completely through the viewfinder.
> The models were very happy with the photos I took. I think the
> pro was rather impressed as well.
Cool! - that's what it's all about. Having fun and getting the shots! some
excellent tips.
Larry
"POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
http://www.uncle-larry.com
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
------------------------------------------------//
On Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:20:01 GMT, "Ron K" <rojo...@NOSPAM.home.com>
Larry
"POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
http://www.uncle-larry.com
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
------------------------------------------------//
On Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:28:21 GMT, "Ron K" <rojo...@NOSPAM.home.com>
wrote:
>>
We were talking about using neutral gray filters to reduce the effects
of studio flash. If the ambient non-flash lighting in the studio is low,
I could see how using a gray filter over a fully open digicam lens could
cause problems with previewing. In my case, the studio was pretty well
lit, so I could get a good preview image at F4.0 with a polarizing filter
on.
I think most studios are set up so that the flashes are simply brighter
versions of the regular lighting. That way you can get some idea of the
lights and shadows in the photo without taking a polaroid. And you might
as well have those lights pretty bright too, just to get a bright viewfinder
image.
"Larry Richards" <larr...@uncle-larry.com> wrote in message
news:76p8tscrbrukeshdb...@4ax.com...
> Ron, are you saying that the f-stop dictates the amount of light to
> the viewfinder? Thats great for DOF preview, but my Minolta's lens
> doesn't stop down until I click the shutter, nor did my Kodak DC290's
> lens. I'd like to have a DOF preview button on the lens though!
> (Minolta, are you listening?)
>
> Larry
>
> "POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
>
> http://www.uncle-larry.com
> http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
>
> Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
>
> Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
>
> ------------------------------------------------//
"Juri Munkki" <jmu...@alpha.hut.fi> wrote in message
news:8r1t9m$fol$1...@nntp.hut.fi...
> In article <76p8tscrbrukeshdb...@4ax.com> Larry Richards
<larr...@uncle-larry.com> writes:
> >Ron, are you saying that the f-stop dictates the amount of light to
> >the viewfinder? Thats great for DOF preview, but my Minolta's lens
> >doesn't stop down until I click the shutter, nor did my Kodak DC290's
> >lens. I'd like to have a DOF preview button on the lens though!
>
"Larry Richards" <larr...@uncle-larry.com> wrote in message
news:pso8tss1b42etdsq2...@4ax.com...
> So the question begs: is it leaf or is it electronic! Enquiring minds
> want to know! ;8>)
>
> Larry
>
> "POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
>
> http://www.uncle-larry.com
> http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
>
> Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
>
> Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
>
> ------------------------------------------------//
> On Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:20:01 GMT, "Ron K" <rojo...@NOSPAM.home.com>
Larry
"POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
http://www.uncle-larry.com
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
------------------------------------------------//
On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 20:27:20 GMT, "Ron K" <rojo...@NOSPAM.home.com>
wrote:
>Well... I'm a photographer/artist... camera salesman or a tech, so I have
>no idea. I didn't even know digital cameras had a shutter. I assumed they
>all turned the CCD image capture on and off for a specified time frame. I
>didn't ever think there were moving parts in them. I really doubt there is a
>leaf shutter in there. Are you saying that other digital cameras don't
>flash sync at all shutter speeds?
>
>
>
>"Larry Richards" <larr...@uncle-larry.com> wrote in message
>news:pso8tss1b42etdsq2...@4ax.com...
>> So the question begs: is it leaf or is it electronic! Enquiring minds
>> want to know! ;8>)
>>
>> Larry
>>
>> "POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
>>
>> http://www.uncle-larry.com
>> http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
>>
>> Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
>>
>> Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------//
>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:20:01 GMT, "Ron K" <rojo...@NOSPAM.home.com>
Larry
"POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
http://www.uncle-larry.com
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
------------------------------------------------//
On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 20:22:35 GMT, "Ron K" <rojo...@NOSPAM.home.com>
wrote:
>Yes - normally in bright light this is fine, but in low light flash
>situations where you want a smaller fstop, it's very difficult to see
>through the view finder under dark conditions. It's the only flaw in the
>camera design that I've found (other than no totally manual exposure
>option).
>
>
>
>"Larry Richards" <larr...@uncle-larry.com> wrote in message
>news:76p8tscrbrukeshdb...@4ax.com...
>> Ron, are you saying that the f-stop dictates the amount of light to
>> the viewfinder? Thats great for DOF preview, but my Minolta's lens
>> doesn't stop down until I click the shutter, nor did my Kodak DC290's
>> lens. I'd like to have a DOF preview button on the lens though!
>> (Minolta, are you listening?)
>>
>> Larry
>>
>> "POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
>>
>> http://www.uncle-larry.com
>> http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
>>
>> Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
>>
>> Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------//
John
"Larry Richards" <larr...@uncle-larry.com> wrote in message
news:ct3dts4v0f5t9r9bd...@4ax.com...
> Yes, that's what I'm saying. Mine has a vertical focal plane shutter
> and a real f-stop (iris thing-a-majiggie). Its flash sync is 1/125 or
> slower.
>
> Larry
>
> "POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
>
> http://www.uncle-larry.com
> http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
>
> Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
>
> Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
>
> ------------------------------------------------//
>
>
> On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 20:27:20 GMT, "Ron K" <rojo...@NOSPAM.home.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Well... I'm a photographer/artist... camera salesman or a tech, so I
have
> >no idea. I didn't even know digital cameras had a shutter. I assumed
they
> >all turned the CCD image capture on and off for a specified time frame. I
> >didn't ever think there were moving parts in them. I really doubt there
is a
> >leaf shutter in there. Are you saying that other digital cameras don't
> >flash sync at all shutter speeds?
> >
> >
> >
> >"Larry Richards" <larr...@uncle-larry.com> wrote in message
> >news:pso8tss1b42etdsq2...@4ax.com...
> >> So the question begs: is it leaf or is it electronic! Enquiring minds
> >> want to know! ;8>)
> >>
> >> Larry
> >>
> >> "POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
> >>
> >> http://www.uncle-larry.com
> >> http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
> >>
> >> Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
> >>
> >> Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------//
> >> On Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:20:01 GMT, "Ron K" <rojo...@NOSPAM.home.com>
Larry
"POP"! Oops! There goes another synapse!
http://www.uncle-larry.com
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~larryric/
Capturing the world with my Minolta RD 3000
Do not e-mail me with spoofed return addresses.
------------------------------------------------//
On Sun, 01 Oct 2000 01:41:21 GMT, "John Burns" <jbu...@triad.rr.com>
wrote: