Screwed by Canon Rebate
John
quite anal about paying attention to the details and ALWAYS sending in
the rebate with delivery confirmation. The delivery confirmation at
least minimizes the "Sorry, we never received your rebate" or "Sorry, we
didn't receive your rebate in time" excuses.
I read the rebate forms several times looking for the "gotcha's". I know
I go through way more trouble than I should for $20-$50 but it's the
principle. They make it as annoying as possible to claim a rebate so
that most people won't bother. I'm the one that bothers.
I send in my rebate to Canon along with all the rebate form, purchase
receipt and I cut out the UPC code from the box and put that in the
envelope. My new tactic is to use wide tape and tape the UPC code to
the rebate form.
I checked on my rebate status just now.
Error(s): An original qualifying UPC was not included
Yep. No matter how hard I tried, Canon still managed to screw me over.
Since they want "an original" qualifying UPC", my copy won't suffice.
Canon, the next time I'm in the market for a product I'll remember this
incident.
RichA
Mail-in rebates are always a scam. Why do they do them? Because
people buy based on this.
50-80% never claim them.
Rebates take 8-12 weeks and often are never delivered, another 50%
forget about them.
They force you to call someone to fix the problem or ask where your
rebate is 16 weeks past due delivery time.
At the end of it all, according to various business studies, only 3% of
rebates are ever paid out. So, they can boost sales with what might
amount to a 0.5% overall discount paid.
It is business genius.
Malcolm Hoar
Try contacting the retailer from whom you made the purchase.
The courts have recently ruled that the retailer is legally
bound to honor the rebate.
I am hopeful that this ruling will help bring about the demise
of the rebate scam.
--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| ma...@malch.com Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
k
"John" <Jo...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:4594782d$0$16750$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
thing happen to me twice in the last half-dozen years; once for a Sony
rebate and once for a Hitachi rebate. I wonder if these rebate centers
aren't scamming the manufacturers somehow, and cheating some percentage of
customers, while still accepting the money from the mfgrs.
J.A. Michel
I got ripped off on a 30.00 rebate on a Netgear networking kit one time.
They rejected my rebate because my address was a PO box. What bullshit.
I guess that was a good enough excuse for them.
Not everyone has the luxury of home-delivered mail - some of us live in
small towns.
"John" <Jo...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:4594782d$0$16750$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
measekite
Malcolm Hoar wrote:
In article <4594782d$0$16750$4c36...@roadrunner.com>, John <Jo...@nospam.net> wrote:I know that the institution of rebates is meant to rip you off so I'm quite anal about paying attention to the details and ALWAYS sending in the rebate with delivery confirmation. The delivery confirmation at least minimizes the "Sorry, we never received your rebate" or "Sorry, we didn't receive your rebate in time" excuses. I read the rebate forms several times looking for the "gotcha's". I know I go through way more trouble than I should for $20-$50 but it's the principle. They make it as annoying as possible to claim a rebate so that most people won't bother. I'm the one that bothers. I send in my rebate to Canon along with all the rebate form, purchase receipt and I cut out the UPC code from the box and put that in the envelope. My new tactic is to use wide tape and tape the UPC code to the rebate form. I checked on my rebate status just now. Error(s): An original qualifying UPC was not included Yep. No matter how hard I tried, Canon still managed to screw me over. Since they want "an original" qualifying UPC", my copy won't suffice. Canon, the next time I'm in the market for a product I'll remember this incident.Try contacting the retailer from whom you made the purchase. The courts have recently ruled that the retailer is legally bound to honor the rebate.
tom
> Yep. No matter how hard I tried, Canon still managed to screw me over.
I have successfully gotten 3 rebates (all at the same time, a package
deal about this time last year) from Canon. Took a while, but they did
pay off.
> Since they want "an original" qualifying UPC", my copy won't suffice.
I'd try appealing to whoever is appropriate and sending the copy with
all the documentation that you have...might just do the trick. Never know.
> Canon, the next time I'm in the market for a product I'll remember this
> incident.
I can certainly understand the sentiment...have had some NOT pay off on
rebates (have a data base set up for when to expect the money back etc).
But you know, I have somewhat recently taken the approach that I will
*not* play the rebate game. I look for the "instant rebate" or the best
price without the rebate trying to encourage the folks that don't
indulge in this garbage. I've heard a while back that Best Buy was going
to be rebate-free sometime RSN...that was about a year to 1.5 years
ago...guess they're not rushing in to anything. <g>
Just wanted to let you know that Canon has paid off in the past (at
least for me).
Tom
Bob (but not THAT Bob)
I get every damn rebate I file, so I'm saving money at the expense of
illiterates/incompetents - so what?
# Fred #
I think most companies factor in that you forget to send in the rebate
rather than trying to scam you. By law they have to provide the rebate
check unless the company goes under.
One company I used to know, you have to call in and asked the status of the
rebate first before they would cut the check.
Another company has so many UPC labels or UPC look alike labels (a few on
the retail box plus couple more on the inside) that I send everything that
remotely look like the UPC. Don't know the intend was to confuse but I had a
rebate for $100 and they said I didn't send in the real UPC.
If you purchase a few items with one receipt and all the rebate forms
required the original receipt then you're kinda screwed.
I had a few different promotions form the same company with only one receipt
but they only send me one rebate with the smaller amount.
I have good luck with rebates from Costco and Microsoft - that's like money
in the pocket.
Don't do rebates much anymore, just not worth the extra effort.
Malcolm Hoar
>>The courts have recently ruled that the retailer is legally
>>bound to honor the rebate.
>
>What court and what state?
My bad. It wasn't the courts per se, it was the FTC:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2005/03/compusa.htm
They have and are holding retailers liable for non-payment
of manufacturers rebates.
The OP should certainly file a complaint with the FTC.
The more complains they get, the more pressure there
will be to end this silly rebate nonsense.
Malcolm Hoar
>I can certainly understand the sentiment...have had some NOT pay off on
>rebates (have a data base set up for when to expect the money back etc).
>But you know, I have somewhat recently taken the approach that I will
>*not* play the rebate game. I look for the "instant rebate" or the best
>price without the rebate trying to encourage the folks that don't
>indulge in this garbage. I've heard a while back that Best Buy was going
>to be rebate-free sometime RSN...that was about a year to 1.5 years
>ago...guess they're not rushing in to anything. <g>
A few major retail chains have already announced their
intent to phase out all rebates. Complaining (on a large
scale) really works.
If you don't receive your rebate, please, please give
the manufacturer, the retailer and the FTC, lots of
grief and hassle. Collectively, consumers can put an
end to this scam.
Barry Watzman
(although not as many as in past years now that OfficeMax and some other
stores are cutting back on them). And I get virtually all of them.
I've been in the situation that you describe. The fact that the issue
is that they claim that you didn't send in a qualifying original UPC
code, which you obviously no longer have, does not mean that all is
lost. I have protested quite a few such situations, and they have
always been reversed and the rebate approved. The one requirement here
is that you have a copy of everything that you sent in, including the
UPC label (Obviously it's not going to be the original - that's ok, the
copy is good enough for a protest/resubmission). Protest the denial,
and in the protest include a copy of the original rebate submission
(with the UPC) and a copy of the delivery confirmation. Let them
explain why they denied it.
[Note: It could be that you sent in a bar code but not a UPC bar code;
this happens a lot, although usually only to rebate "newbies" who don't
know what a UPC code is. Lots of products have tons of bar code labels
on them, only one of which is the UPC bar code label. Another
possibility is that the UPC code on the product was not on the list of
qualifying UPC codes supplied to the rebate processor by the rebate
sponsor. This is OFTEN a mistake; sometimes, however, there was no
rebate on the product that you bought, although there was one on a VERY
similar product. Either way, this is also worth protesting and denials
are often reversed. Note that the same product sold in different stores
can have different UPC labels, one of which qualifies and the other of
which does not. This is common for products sold at warehouse clubs,
for example (a product sold at a warehouse club like Costco or Sam's
doesn't qualify for a rebate while the exact same product sold at Best
Buy does, and they have different UPC labels.]
A couple of comments: MOST of the rebate firms and the rebate sponsors
are NOT out to screw you or deny you the rebate (but yes, there are a
few exceptions], and they are usually reasonable when an issue arises
(again, there are exceptions). We've had quite a discussion of this
recently in another newsgroup (Dell), and my experience is typical of
people who do a lot of rebates. More than 90% of rebates work just fine
with no issues if you follow the directions. A small number, less than
10%, will involve some type of post-application correspondence.
However, if you follow the instructions and appeal when necessary, you
will get more than 99% of your rebates.
Officially, is no "delivery confirmation" for envelopes (very
unfortunately), only for packages. The official USPS policy is that you
can only do delivery confirmation for packages or letters that are more
than 3/4 of an inch thick. Some postal clerks, however, either don't
know this or don't enforce it and will sell you a delivery confirmation
anyway. [I think that this whole policy is a mistake by the postal
service, but that's another matter].
However, I have never found this to be an issue. Of all of the rebate
denials that I have dealt with (a few dozen in 5 or 6 years out of at
least 600 to 1,000 rebates), the issue has NEVER been that the rebate
was just "lost". Not even once. Further, delivery confirmation and,
especially a return signature, can actually slow down the process (and
some rebate processors won't even accept rebate submissions with return
signature cards that have to be signed for). What you can do on a
letter is a lesser known service called a "Certificate of Mailing",
which you can get on a letter. It proves that the letter was mailed,
although not that it was received by the recipient. But problems with
missing/wrong UPC labels or receipts, or non-qualification for whatever
reason, are the bulk of problems.
Barry Watzman
from post office boxes. This is a standard term of virually all
rebates. Sure, you have a PO box, but normally you do live SOMEWHERE
where you could get mail.
J.A. Michel
years ago. So I guess everyone with a PO box is a criminal or something??
I live in a rural area, where home-delivered mail is not an option. We have
to have a PO box, and we get to pay box rent for the privilege of being
treated like crap.
"Barry Watzman" <Watzma...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:45949345$0$5278$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
Barry Watzman
for rebates. I'm not sure that it was a court ruling, but I believe
that CompUSA signed an FTC consent decree on this matter. However it's
not "across the board".
That not withstanding, I have had both Circuit City and Best Buy local
stores pay me for rebates that were denied (the Circuit City rebate was
$200 on a laptop .... and they gave me cash right out of the cash
register, after filling out some forms and having me sign some papers).
[Interestingly, this rebate, which had been denied by the rebate
processor, was subsequently reversed and I received my check ... double
rebate ... which I took back to the store and signed over to them.]
Best Buy did not give me cash, but a gift card (which, for me, was as
good as cash).
It's a last resort, to be used after appealing to the rebate processor,
but if you have all of the documentation, the local stores will indeed
sometimes honor a rebate that the rebate processor denies.
Freckles
I have put in for many rebates over the years and I have always received
them.
Barry Watzman
against rebate fulfillment houses and sponsors involve use of PO boxes.
So quite some time ago (I'd say more than a decade ago) it became just
about universal to deny rebates with a PO box address (and it states
that in the rebate terms).
An interesting situation arose about 2 years ago because almost all
rebates are limited to "one per address". The NY attorney general
brought suit against a ton of rebate firms for not paying rebates to
residents of large NYC high-rise apartment buildings (same address .....
1234 Broadway, NY, NY). Sometimes some of the things that the rebate
firms have to do to protect themselves (because they ARE themselves the
targets of people who would commit fraud) cross the line, sometimes
unintentionally. The "one per address" rule is reasonable enough in a
suburban single-family residence environment, but failed miserably in
environments with high-rise apartment buildings that have a single address.
Tony Hwang
I always got my rebate check. Only thing is it takes upto a few weeks to
get it. Follow the procedure and mail it and be paitient.
Tony Hwang
Hmmm,
You may have bought a grey market product? Take it up with your retailer.
Malcolm Hoar
>A couple of comments: MOST of the rebate firms and the rebate sponsors
>are NOT out to screw you or deny you the rebate (but yes, there are a
>few exceptions], and they are usually reasonable when an issue arises
>(again, there are exceptions). We've had quite a discussion of this
>recently in another newsgroup (Dell), and my experience is typical of
>people who do a lot of rebates. More than 90% of rebates work just fine
>with no issues if you follow the directions.
The 10-20% of rebates that are never submitted work fine (for
the issuer).
In my opinion, none of them work "just fine" for the consumer.
The paperwork is a hassle. Postage is not free. Keeping copies
is even more of a hassle. And chasing non-payments is a major
hassle.
On top of all that, in CA at least, you pay sales tax on the
rebate amount.
The only reason rebates exist is because the issues know with
a high degree of confidence that they'll get to keep some
20% of refundable amount. Large manufacturers and retailers
can play that numbers game to their advantage. Consumers, as
a group, will always loose.
Arthur Entlich
taped to the form. Usually, these rebates are not handled by the
manufacturer, but by a hired "Fulfillment" company.
It is possible in the handling, because it was taped to the form, they
might have simply missed it. They are supposed to hold on to any rebate
form that is in contention, so I would call them and explain the
situation, they may re-evaluate your form and correct the situation.
Then demand a rapid processing, since they made the error and owe you
the money. If they stick to their guns, demand a photocopy of your
original submission (all sides copied). If that doesn't get you
anywhere, if you are in the states or Canada, place a complaint with:
-The attorney general's office for your state or province
-In the US, or if the Fulfillment company is in the US, report to the US
postal Fraud division.
-Canon in your country... they usually want to know about this.
Lastly, contact the retailer where you bought the goods. They sometimes
have a person who follows up on this kind of thing. In some cases, they
will just pay the rebate directly to you.
Art
Arthur Entlich
by that they will make great efforts to disqualify rebates to keep the
rebate costs down... particularly with larger rebate amounts.
You may also be right about some fraud.
Art
Arthur Entlich
multiple rebates when they are restricted to one per household. The
rebate form usually warns you about this. Unfortunately, probably the
only thing you can do is find someone elses to submit it for you who has
a street address.
If someone sends you a letter with your street address and no PO number,
would your P.O. know where it was to be delivered?
Art
Arthur Entlich
I also report non-responding companies to the authorities.
Art
Arthur Entlich
The only thing I'd challenge is the integrity of the fulfillment
companies. I have actually gone to some of their websites and read how
they advertise to the clients (the retailers or manufacturers who hire
them) and they do try to limit rebates with some tactics.
I also have gone through hundreds of rebates, although not as many as
you have. I have had many rejected on bogus grounds. Sometimes trying
to contact the fulfillment company is very difficult... you get recorded
messages, etc. and they do not call back.
In all the times I have submitted rebates, I only made one error, which
I was able to rectify (I send the wrong receipt), however, the rebate
companies have tried to stiff me dozens of time. Sometimes massive
delays, sometimes dishonest refusals.
I have ultimately received every rebate I have ever submitted, but not
without a lot of wasted time and work I should not have to put into it.
I have gone as far as calling company head offices and speaking with
Vice presidents of both the fulfillment companies and the manufacturers.
Anyway, I know some errors are made by the purchasers, but the rebate
process is made intentionally difficult and convoluted, and my
experience says the fulfillment companies are not as above board as your
experience implies.
Art
Arthur Entlich
by the retailer. Eventually, the rebate cheque showed up, and I
attempted to return it to the store. They didn't want it and told me to
cash it.
One more caveat... some fulfillment companies send cheques that look
like junkmail. It is usually a plain white laser printed postcard.
Usually really flimsy, and it even has the postage and cancellation on
it when you get it. The reverse side IS the cheque. It's easy to
discard or lose this, so be careful to read those junkmail looking
postcards, they may be a cheque.
Art
RichA
No problem, I'm just pointing out the differences between mail-in
rebates and instant rebates.
Having automatic computer verification of rebates at the time of sale
would increase payouts massively, but the companies don't want that at
all. Meanwhile, there is also the chance with instant rebates your
name and other information wouldn't be sold to a 1000 different
databases months afterward....
Bill
RichA wrote:
>
> Having automatic computer verification of rebates at the time of sale
> would increase payouts massively, but the companies don't want that at
> all. Meanwhile, there is also the chance with instant rebates your
> name and other information wouldn't be sold to a 1000 different
> databases months afterward....
The problem with instant rebates is that there is no way they
could validate that you're not doing more than one like they can
when you have to mail it in. So people could easily end up with
multiples, and the companies do not want that, especially with
the free (after rebate) stuff. For stuff like giving $100 back
on an appliance, or Sears giving free shipping after rebate,
there's really no excuse for a mail-in rebate, other than
avoiding paying it.
BTW as someone who does a LOT of rebates, there is absolutely NO
evidence that my name is sold as a result of rebates (I do get
mail specifically from a couple of companies whose rebates I
claimed). And I don't think that anyone has been able to prove
this -- it's just paranoid people like you who keep claiming
that it is true. If you have proof, post it here.
Bill
Stacia
>I don't remember seeing that 'rule' in the paperwork. This was several
>years ago. So I guess everyone with a PO box is a criminal or something??
>I live in a rural area, where home-delivered mail is not an option. We have
>to have a PO box, and we get to pay box rent for the privilege of being
>treated like crap.
When I lived in a rural area we also had a "box" (formerly "rural
route") address and we couldn't get any offers, rebates, or anything.
The "no PO boxes" rule is very common, although I can't say I know why.
Even some catalogues won't send to a PO box. I'm sure they get away
with it because so few people have rural addresses.
Nowadays rural addresses have what's called a "911 address", maybe you
can call the post office and see if mail will be delivered to you if
it's got that address?
Stacia
mark_digital©
The purpose is to get you to cut the box your merchandise came in. Once you
do it that baby is yours. Pure and simple.
When sending in the UPC remove it from the cardboard. Don't send the whole
darn thing in.
Enclose one sheet showing minature copies of everything they asked for. This
will be a tip off to them you have the necessary copies to back up your
claims.
mark_
Phisherman
Samsung did something similiar on my rebate. They notified me via
email and regular ail that my purchase was on 11-11-06, past the
deadline of 10-31-06. I made this purchase on 10-27-06. I faxed them
a copy of my invoice and got my $60 approved, finally. Always, scan
your items BEFORE you mail in the rebate, and keep these scans until
you get your rebate. Gosh I hate rebates!
Joseph Meehan
> I know that the institution of rebates is meant to rip you off ..
While I don't like the idea of rebates, I do carefully apply for most of
the ones I am qualified for. I have only had problems twice. Once was my
fault and I misread the requirements and I had the wrong product. In
another case I had made some mistake in applying for it, but they wrote
back, requesting the additional bit of information and when I complied I got
the rebate. That includes several Canon rebates. BTW the two questioned
rebates were not Canon.
--
Joseph Meehan
Dia 's Muire duit
T Shadow
"Bill" <bill...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:4594CB6A...@prodigy.net...
>
>
> RichA wrote:
> >
> > Having automatic computer verification of rebates at the time of sale
> > would increase payouts massively, but the companies don't want that at
> > all. Meanwhile, there is also the chance with instant rebates your
> > name and other information wouldn't be sold to a 1000 different
> > databases months afterward....
>
>
> evidence that my name is sold as a result of rebates (I do get
> mail specifically from a couple of companies whose rebates I
> claimed). And I don't think that anyone has been able to prove
> this -- it's just paranoid people like you who keep claiming
> that it is true. If you have proof, post it here.
>
> Bill
I used to agree but think it has changed. Recently bought a Ultra HDD
enclosure at CC. Didn't look closely enough at the rebate PDF until readying
the paperwork. The rebate has to go through an operation called
OnRebate.com. An obvious data mining operation. I refuse to do business with
an outfit like this and will relinquish the $20 to keep from it. I'll never
buy a product again with a rebate that goes through something like this.
one@bellsouth.com James
nature a scam. There is no logical explanation for a rebate program other
than being a scam. The following truth will never change:
If the producer of a product wants to sell you his product at a lower than
normal price, they will give you a price break at the check out counter.
Any "program" to make you jump through silly hoops to get your "discount"
six months later , is nothing other than a silly scam. There is NO logical
reason for a "program" to give you a better price six months later
!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IF they wanted to give you a lower price, they would do
it ON THE DAY THAT YOU BUY THE PRODUCT !!
I am glad that this is all cleared up now. But alas, I do know
there are those that believe in the tooth fairy, so here come the
flames........
Oh well........
--James--
anon
> the expense of
> illiterates/incompetents - so what?
he said he followed the directions to the letter... you're
nuts if you think the rebate houses don't often deny for
bullshit reasons. I get all mine too, but more than once
i've had to resort to pretty well harrassing them to do
it. I am meticulous as he is, and i've had them denied
for bogus reasons.
The most recent example was with a Seagate hard drive.
They tried to claim my model wasn't eligible for a rebate,
despite the rebate form itself showing the model as
eligible. They also gave the same excuse to my father, so
it wasn't simply me.... and fatwallet.com had more
examples of people being falsely denied on this rebate,
they were denying legit claims left & right. It was only
after calling & raising hell they reversed the denials and
sent the checks. Still took over 6 mos.
my hassle with a BellSouth rebate was even worse. The
rebate house claimed my copy of my phone bill wasn't
valid. I didn't get paper bills, & the only copies of
bills available electronically at the time didn't look
like normal bills -- everything was in a courier 10pt
font, no graphics, lines anything. The rebate house
repeatedly diddled around saying that wasn't acceptable,
despite it being the only option available to me. And
it's not like BellSouth didn't know I had their product.
I had to write to Georgia's Office of Consumer Protections
to get that one. That got the BellSouth's presidential
escalations office involved.
Others I've had to call multiple times. I note the
dates/times I call or check the website, the CSR i spoke
with, everything... nowadays i even put a piece of paper
in the envelope advising that all contents have been
photocopied, including the postmarked mailing date on the
envelope (i use a machine), and that i will be routinely
following up.
certain rebate houses repeatedly crop up when people talk
about bogus denials. The goal is to deny. If the rebate
house promises a vendor only xx% will be fulfilled, often
they have to eat anything above that amount.
John
However did you arrive at the possibility that it was a gray market
item? Besides, the rebate was refused because they claimed a UPC was
not included.
It wasn't gray and Canon has already done warranty work on it (I don't
believe they would do that for gray products).
Someone else suggested that I might not have sent it the correct label.
I cut off all the barcodes from the box just in case.
I scan everything. The box before I cut off the UPC codes. The postal
confirmation receipt. The original store receipt. Everything scanned is
put into a directory for that product.
If the rebate is a PDF form then using Adobe Pro, I add text fields and
type in everything in 14 point bold Arial font. That way they can't
claim they can't read my writing.
Finally, I scan in and save the filled in rebate. I copy and paste
their address and use Word to generate an envelope (avoids possible
transposition errors). Then I drive to the post office to get delivery
confirmation added. Cost about $2.75.
Is this a lot of work? Yes. Is this usually worth the effort? No. But
as I previously stated, it's the principle of the matter. Am I anal?
You bet.
One less than bright Best Buy manager was boasting to me that most
rebates are not claimed for one reason or another and that's how they
increase their profits.
After all this, I think one might come to appreciate why I'm miffed with
Canon for screwing me over. Oh, please don't say it's not Canon's fault
but the rebate processing center. Canon chose the company, Canon is
responsible.
I have absolutely no idea how I would "prove" that something was in an
envelope. No matter what I do, it'll still come down to their word
versus mine. Wouldn't it?
As others have suggested, I also don't know what the retailer could do
for me or attempting to charge back the the item to the credit company
would accomplish. After all, I received the item. Any suggestions?
mark_digital©
"Joseph Meehan" <slig...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4594fb14$0$5264$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
Biblical names get better treatment.
Alan Browne
> I know that the institution of rebates is meant to rip you off so I'm
> quite anal about paying attention to the details and ALWAYS sending in
> the rebate with delivery confirmation. The delivery confirmation at
> least minimizes the "Sorry, we never received your rebate" or "Sorry, we
> didn't receive your rebate in time" excuses.
I've always gotten my rebates without issue within 6 - 8 weeks of
sending in the application. Minolta even rebated me $200 even though
they had no obligation to do so (which I stipulated in my cover letter:
"I bought this camera _before_ the rebate period. Nevertheless, ...")
> I read the rebate forms several times looking for the "gotcha's". I know
> I go through way more trouble than I should for $20-$50 but it's the
> principle. They make it as annoying as possible to claim a rebate so
> that most people won't bother. I'm the one that bothers.
<S>
> Error(s): An original qualifying UPC was not included
>
> Yep. No matter how hard I tried, Canon still managed to screw me over.
>
> Since they want "an original" qualifying UPC", my copy won't suffice.
>
> Canon, the next time I'm in the market for a product I'll remember this
> incident.
Write a letter to Canon rather than moaning here.
Cheers,
Alan
--
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Barry Watzman
issuer)."
I've been on the other side of this, as a marketing manager offering or
considering offering, rebates.
The rebate houses will give you tables with the price of the item on one
axis, the amount of the rebate on the other axis, and the percent of
sales for which the rebate will be claimed in the table body. Some of
them will guarantee the rebate (e.g. if more than they estimate are
claimed, they will pay the rebates rather than the rebate sponsor).
The number of rebates that are not claimed is WAY more than 10% to 20%.
Redemption rates do not reach even 50% (much less the 80% to 90% that
you were speculating) until you get to rebates that are both absolutely
large ($50 and up) and ALSO a high percentage of the item price (in the
range of 50%). For most rebates, the percent that are CLAIMED are more
like what you were thinking of for the percent NOT CLAIMED, e.g. 10% to 30%.
Rebates work for the seller because they allow him to achieve
"differential pricing" and thereby increase his market share (number of
units sold). For the buyer, you need to know if you do or do not
actually "get" your rebates. A quick review of this thread will show
you lots of people who don't, but also lots of people who do. The
difference is in the people and their approach to rebates, not in the
rebates themselves (well, for the most part ... there are some rip-off
rebates, but they are the exception). The rebate is a tax on the
disorgznized and lazy for the benefit of the people who have the mind
set to do the rebates right. There is generally no deception or fraud
involved, but effort is required, as is some level of knowledge of how
the system works. It's possible to benefit, but not everyone does.
However, when they don't, it's generally because of their own actions.
Barry Watzman
no doubt that it's better than a mail-in rebate of the same amount, but
you will NEVER find "instant rebates" that are the equivalent of the
larger mail-in rebates. The rebate "system" depends on the fact that
only a minority of buyers will ever apply for the rebate.
Michael Black
> An "instant rebate" isn't a rebate at all, it's just a sale price. And
> no doubt that it's better than a mail-in rebate of the same amount, but
> you will NEVER find "instant rebates" that are the equivalent of the
> larger mail-in rebates. The rebate "system" depends on the fact that
> only a minority of buyers will ever apply for the rebate.
>
>
seems a renaming of "sale prices" because of the current trend to a lot
of real rebates.
I can remember decades ago, "rebates" were not common and you'd have
to buy six items to send off the box tops, or something similar, and
you didn't get much back. Yet, if you were lucky you'd know about
such a rebate, and it might give you something back if it was something
you actually were buying.
It's only in recent years that they've become a major "marketing tool".
And I think what irks many people is not the rebate thing, but the flyers
that make the rebate part of the deal. No longer is it a subtle matter of
finding a coupon somewhere and thinking "I was going to buy that anyway,
and getting a few dollars back would be neat". Instead, you see a great
price, and then the fine print says "after rebate". It is a promotional
tool, and the rebate becomes a far bigger part of the price and appeal
than those old coupons you might find somewhere. "That's on sale, I'll
buy it. Oh, I have to do a rebate".
The "instant rebates" are just the stores "cashing in" on the rebate craze.
The only reason I can think why they'd use the term is because customers
will think "Oh a rebate, but I don't have to do anything", which shouldn't
be necessary anyway except there are so many mail in rebates in the flyers
to begin with.
If everyone gets the "instant rebate" then there is nothing different
from an item on sale, because the company or store does not benefit
from only some people going after the rebate (but likely most buyers
choose that item based on the after-rebate price). They also don't
get the peripheral information that they may see as a benefit of
rebates.
Michael
Shawn Hirn
John <Jo...@nospam.net> wrote:
> I know that the institution of rebates is meant to rip you off so I'm
> quite anal about paying attention to the details and ALWAYS sending in
> the rebate with delivery confirmation. The delivery confirmation at
> least minimizes the "Sorry, we never received your rebate" or "Sorry, we
> didn't receive your rebate in time" excuses.
>
> I read the rebate forms several times looking for the "gotcha's". I know
> I go through way more trouble than I should for $20-$50 but it's the
> principle. They make it as annoying as possible to claim a rebate so
> that most people won't bother. I'm the one that bothers.
>
> I send in my rebate to Canon along with all the rebate form, purchase
> receipt and I cut out the UPC code from the box and put that in the
> envelope. My new tactic is to use wide tape and tape the UPC code to
> the rebate form.
>
> I checked on my rebate status just now.
>
> Error(s): An original qualifying UPC was not included
Did you contact Canon to complain? If so, and you didn't get a
satisfactory response, try sending a snail mail complaint to Canon's
CEO. No CEO of a large company likes getting complaints from customers.
I had a problem with Kodak where I got nowhere by going through Kodak's
standard consumer relations channels. I finally wrote a letter of
complaint and sent it to the CEO. A week later, I got a call from some
VP there who was very apologetic. He took down my snail mail address
and, a few days later, he sent me a box full of Kodak stuff to thank me
for bringing the problem to their attention. That box also included a
letter of apology. Maybe you would get the same results by contacting
Canon's CEO.
-hh
anon wrote:
> > I get every damn rebate I file, so I'm saving money at
> > the expense of
> > illiterates/incompetents - so what?
>
> he said he followed the directions to the letter...
No, he didn't.
The OP stated that he sent in a COPY of the UPC when the rebate clearly
specified that he had to send in the *original*.
As such, the OP failed to follow the specified instructions, so he was
denied the rebate.
> you're nuts if you think the rebate houses don't often
> deny for bullshit reasons.
True, but it does not apply in this particular case.
-hh
Shawn Hirn
John <Jo...@nospam.net> wrote:
Geez! You sure are anal retentive, to say the least. In all the years I
have sent in rebates, I have only had a few rebates declined. I just
send in the usual paperwork via standard first class mail by dropping
the envelope in the mailbox outside my office. I do photocopy everything
first.
I have only had two or three rebates where there was a rejection. On one
of them, I did make an error, and I sent in the corrected rebate
materials and I got the rebate check a few weeks later. If I had to go
to the trouble you go through in submitting each rebate, I would simply
not bother because my time is worth more than the typical rebate.
In fact, I am waiting for a $100 Xbox 360 rebate now and a $30 rebate
for a printer I recently bought.
HeyBub
> As has been adequately explained here before, rebates are by their
> very nature a scam. There is no logical explanation for a rebate
> program other than being a scam.
Here's further proof:
I got a rebate check sometime back. It came in a nondescript envelope via
"Bulk Mail" (now known as "Standard Mail").
I normally toss snail-mail-spam. Probably millions others do too. Evidently
the rebate company tried to take advantage of this social engineering
concept.
M Berger
With mail in rebates, the store sales figures aren't
decreased as they would be with the instant reduction.
Localities like it because they get the full sales tax
amount.
In most cases the store doesn't pay the rebate, the parent
company or manufacturer does.
M Berger
that they will make great efforts to disqualify claims?
I can't imagine many reputable companies would hire them.
Arthur Entlich wrote:
> These rebate companies often advertise to the companies they are hired
> by that they will make great efforts to disqualify rebates to keep the
> rebate costs down... particularly with larger rebate amounts.
>
> You may also be right about some fraud.
>
John
NO!
REREAD MY ORIGINAL POST! SHOW ME WHERE I STATED THAT I SENT IN A COPY.
I never said that I sent in a COPY. I sent in the original, genuine UPC
codes (actually, all the barcodes) cut off from the box.
I said that I had a scanned copy of the box (for my own records).
NO COPY OF THE UPC CODE WERE MAILED IN.
There's no other way of phrasing it: CANON RIPPED ME OFF EVEN THOUGH I
FOLLOWED ALL THE RULES.
M Berger
The rebate is not a sale price. It's a rebate.
John
> John wrote:
>> I know that the institution of rebates is meant to rip you off so I'm
>> quite anal about paying attention to the details and ALWAYS sending in
>> the rebate with delivery confirmation. The delivery confirmation at
>> least minimizes the "Sorry, we never received your rebate" or "Sorry,
>> we didn't receive your rebate in time" excuses.
>
> I've always gotten my rebates without issue within 6 - 8 weeks of
> sending in the application. Minolta even rebated me $200 even though
> they had no obligation to do so (which I stipulated in my cover letter:
> "I bought this camera _before_ the rebate period. Nevertheless, ...")
>
>> I read the rebate forms several times looking for the "gotcha's". I
>> know I go through way more trouble than I should for $20-$50 but it's
>> the principle. They make it as annoying as possible to claim a rebate
>> so that most people won't bother. I'm the one that bothers.
> <S>
>> Error(s): An original qualifying UPC was not included
>>
>> Yep. No matter how hard I tried, Canon still managed to screw me over.
>>
>> Since they want "an original" qualifying UPC", my copy won't suffice.
>>
>> Canon, the next time I'm in the market for a product I'll remember
>> this incident.
>
> Write a letter to Canon rather than moaning here.
A letter was written to Canon well before posting here.
You call it moaning, I call it informing.
>
> Cheers,
> Alan
>
Warren Weber
>anal about paying attention to the details and ALWAYS sending in the rebate
>with delivery confirmation. The delivery confirmation at least minimizes
>the "Sorry, we never received your rebate" or "Sorry, we didn't receive
>your rebate in time" excuses.
>
> go through way more trouble than I should for $20-$50 but it's the
> principle. They make it as annoying as possible to claim a rebate so that
> most people won't bother. I'm the one that bothers.
>
> receipt and I cut out the UPC code from the box and put that in the
> envelope. My new tactic is to use wide tape and tape the UPC code to the
> rebate form.
>
> I checked on my rebate status just now.
>
>
> Yep. No matter how hard I tried, Canon still managed to screw me over.
>
> Since they want "an original" qualifying UPC", my copy won't suffice.
>
> Canon, the next time I'm in the market for a product I'll remember this
> incident.
>
are the ones sent to Texas. I think the workers find a way to collect the
rebate themselves. W W
jolt
"M Berger" <ber...@shout.net> wrote in message
news:en3h76$9da$4...@roundup.shout.net...
> Can you show us some examples of where companies advertise
> that they will make great efforts to disqualify claims?
> I can't imagine many reputable companies would hire them.
>
Here's an example, a patent for a system to make it easier to file for a
rebate while still maintaining "breakage".
"Now, you'd be right if you guessed that companies behind the rebates work
hard to "encourage" breakage. There are countless tricks that companies use
to try to boost the breakage numbers. Now Parago, the company behind
Circuit City rebates, has been granted a patent (U.S. Patent No. 7,120,591)
for an online redemption system for product rebates. Sounds innocent enough
to begin with. "
". promotion sponsors can offer promotions with multiple disbursement
options designed to recapture a rebate by allowing a consumer to apply
rebate credits to the sale of additional goods and services. Furthermore,
the rebate processing system provides a user friendly interface, yet retains
hurdles sufficient to maintain breakage."
http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=115
RichA
Bill wrote:
> RichA wrote:
> >
> > Having automatic computer verification of rebates at the time of sale
> > would increase payouts massively, but the companies don't want that at
> > all. Meanwhile, there is also the chance with instant rebates your
> > name and other information wouldn't be sold to a 1000 different
> > databases months afterward....
>
> could validate that you're not doing more than one like they can
> when you have to mail it in. So people could easily end up with
> multiples, and the companies do not want that, especially with
> the free (after rebate) stuff. For stuff like giving $100 back
> on an appliance, or Sears giving free shipping after rebate,
> there's really no excuse for a mail-in rebate, other than
> avoiding paying it.
>
> BTW as someone who does a LOT of rebates, there is absolutely NO
> evidence that my name is sold as a result of rebates (I do get
> mail specifically from a couple of companies whose rebates I
> claimed). And I don't think that anyone has been able to prove
> this -- it's just paranoid people like you who keep claiming
> that it is true. If you have proof, post it here.
>
> Bill
Do I have proof that your name is sold? No, how could I. But, unless
the small print says they won't do this, it is likely that they do.
yassahmassa
Andrew White <nosp...@allowed.at.all.net> wrote:
> If you're not Scott, let me tell you something: rebate are a scam only
> if you're a stupid and lazy slob.
Everyone who has not gotten their rebate thanks you for setting them
straight with your two cents. All rebates are run by honest Abe
corporations. They are not simply a promotional scheme designed to sell
more products without losing revenue. Rebates are designed to give stuff
away. Rebates are for the CONSUMER, not for the company.
Rebate rules are necessary to keep consumers honest, not to shield the
company from having to honor them.
What a silly fucking screed.
-hh
John wrote:
>
> REREAD MY ORIGINAL POST! SHOW ME WHERE I STATED THAT I SENT IN A COPY.
My apologies.
I saw your statement of:
"Since they want "an original" qualifying UPC", my copy won't suffice"
..which I interpreted to mean that you had originally sent in a copy
instead of the original.
> There's no other way of phrasing it: CANON RIPPED ME OFF EVEN THOUGH I
> FOLLOWED ALL THE RULES.
Actually, it is the Redemption company who is Canon's representative
who is doing the "ripping offing".
It would appear that their excuse was because they were able to "lose"
your UPC since you didn't physically attach it.
My suggestion would be for you to photograph your swiss-cheesed box and
send that photo along with the rest of your documentation to Canon and
ask Canon to contact their redemption company to provide *to Canon,
their customer* their documentation on precisely what they claimed that
they received from you. If they have absolutely none of the cardboard
(or all of the bar codes except the UPC), even though it is your word
against theirs, you have a pretty good case that you did send it and
you can ask Canon to ovrride the recommendation of their *service
provider* and cut you a rebate check.
If this doesn't work and you want to litigate, there was just a case
recently (I think in NJ) where the supoena was delivered to a local
employee (IIRC, a Verizon cellphone kiosk?) as a company
representative. What's clever about this approach is that if they fail
to show up in court or whatever, your *local jurisdiction* has the
authority to shut down the *local* store and possibly even sieze
merchandice to satisfy the legal lien.
Granted, you might not want to do this to your local Mom&Pop camera
store, but it is worth looking up this lawsuit to see what the
specifics were and if it could be applied.
-hh
yassahmassa
"anon" <lkjl...@2lkj2lkj33.com.pt> wrote:
> The most recent example was with a Seagate hard drive.
> They tried to claim my model wasn't eligible for a rebate,
> despite the rebate form itself showing the model as
> eligible.
HP did the same to me. Then they backpedaled and said, "Oh, the machine
is eligible, but you didn't included the UPC label."
Like hell I didn't. I will never buy another HP product again. Corrupt
business practices, corrupt executives, shit for products and ignorant
snowjob tech support.
But boy, they got **great** propaganda... oops, I mean "marketing"--
especially with rebates-- as all their defenders will show.
Bill
HeyBub wrote:
>
> Here's further proof:
>
> I got a rebate check sometime back. It came in a nondescript envelope via
> "Bulk Mail" (now known as "Standard Mail").
>
> I normally toss snail-mail-spam. Probably millions others do too. Evidently
> the rebate company tried to take advantage of this social engineering
> concept.
Actually, they do it to save money on postage. If you like to
toss unknown mail, then put a special middle initial on your
rebate forms and then you'll know when it's a check.
Let me guess that you also complain about postcard checks as
being too easy to steal, and you'd also complain about an
envelope that said "your rebate check is enclosed!!".
Bill
Bill
>
> I used to agree but think it has changed. Recently bought a Ultra HDD
> enclosure at CC. Didn't look closely enough at the rebate PDF until readying
> the paperwork. The rebate has to go through an operation called
> OnRebate.com. An obvious data mining operation. I refuse to do business with
> an outfit like this and will relinquish the $20 to keep from it. I'll never
> buy a product again with a rebate that goes through something like this.
Onrebate.com is just a different rebate processing company (with
really picky rules about their rebate submissions and a
requirement that you submit it online and then print and mail
the form). Please tell us how you figured out that they are a
data mining operations any more than Parago (rebateshq.com) and
the other rebate processors??? Parago also lets you submit your
forms online.
Interestingly, Ultra seems to have switched to another company
as of December.
Bill
Ryan
THIS IS EASILY SOLVED:
You did the right thing by using DC and keeping copies. However, this
is how to get your rebate paid:
1. Go to the rebate web site and find out which fullfillment company
owns it so you'll know which one is handling this for Canon. You can
then search Google for their address.
2. Go to BBB.org and file a complaint online against the Fullfillment
company (not Canon) explaining that you mailed the original UPC, you
have a copy to prove it, they claim you did not send it and will not
correct the problem for you.
I had to do this three times in all my years of rebates.. EVERY time
the fullfillment company MAGICALLY "found" my entire claim the moment
the BBB contacted them and one even sent my check via FedEd.
DON'T GIVE UP. It's not hard to shake the money out of them, just have
to use the right tactics. :-)
Bill
This is a great suggestion. I've had success filing complaints
against Parago.
Another option is going to the Canon USA website and looking for
some email address to complain to. He could also file a BBB
complaint against Canon.
The worst thing people can do is simply sit back and say "they
ripped me off on that rebate, and my response is to not buy from
them again". The best response is to get your money.
Bill
-hh
> Can you show us some examples of where companies advertise
> that they will make great efforts to disqualify claims?
> I can't imagine many reputable companies would hire them.
I doubt that any company will ever actually advertise that they are
going to purposefully act in an unethical manner.
Particularly since they don't have to: what the shopping business is
going to care about is how much they're going to have to pay, so the
company can advertise that their redemption rates are "better" than
their competitors.
Here's one such example. Even though the company's now kaput, the
Wayback machine has preserved their marketing pitch:
And just to re-archive the meat of their sales pitch:
[QUOTE]
"...TCA Fulfillment stands behind these rates. If you are using another
fulfillment company, add 20% to these redemption rates."
Rebate Award $5 $10 $15 $20 $25 $30 $40 $50
Retail Product Price
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$5 15% N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
$10 20% 30% N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
$15 20% 25% 35% N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
$20 20% 30% 30% 35% N/A N/A N/A N/A
$25 20% 30% 30% 30% 40% N/A N/A N/A
$30 15% 25% 30% 30% 35% 50% N/A N/A
$40 15% 25% 25% 30% 35% 45% 40% N/A
$50 15% 20% 25% 25% 35% 40% 40% 50%
$75 N/A 20% 20% 25% 30% 40% 40% 50%
$100 N/A 10% 15% 20% 25% 30% 30% 45%
$150 N/A N/A N/A 15% 20% 25% 25% 40%
$200 N/A N/A N/A 10% 15% 20% 25% 35%
"Compiled from rebate redemptions during the period of 7/1/98 - 6/30/99
based on sales of consumer electronics in retail stores..."
[/QUOTE]
FWIW, you'll notice that the highest redemption rate on this table is
only 50%, and that basically only occurs when the rebate roughly equals
the full price of a modestly priced product ... ie $30 for $30, $50 for
$50, etc.
-hh
Steve
>If you're not Scott, let me tell you something: rebate are a scam only
Andrew, you are, of course, our hero. Only you could state with
absolute certainty that no rebate in history has ever remained unpaid
unless the submitter was a lazy slob.
--
Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.
...G.K. Chesterton
Glen
"Steve" <t...@qprc.inv> wrote in message
news:ggtap25d9puu21hp0...@4ax.com...
> Andrew White <nosp...@allowed.at.all.net> wrote:
>>If you're not Scott, let me tell you something: rebate are a scam only
>>if you're a stupid and lazy slob. I get every single rebate I file.
>
> Andrew, you are, of course, our hero. Only you could state with
> absolute certainty that no rebate in history has ever remained unpaid
> unless the submitter was a lazy slob.
It's Andrew's MO. This guy is a hoot! When you get bored, read some of his
postings, he's proof, the Indian used to screw the buffalo.
J.A. Michel
> If someone sends you a letter with your street address and no PO number,
> would your P.O. know where it was to be delivered?
Most of the time, yes. Fortunatley, our town is small enough (pop. 325)
that the postmaster knows most everyone.
However, problems arise when we get a new postmaster, or when postmaster
relief is on duty.
J.A. Michel
Mön§igñor ßoddoM
> I had a similar situation. The rebate was only for $10, and I was paid
> by the retailer. Eventually, the rebate cheque showed up, and I
> attempted to return it to the store. They didn't want it and told me to
> cash it.
>
> One more caveat... some fulfillment companies send cheques that look
> like junkmail. It is usually a plain white laser printed postcard.
> Usually really flimsy, and it even has the postage and cancellation on
> it when you get it. The reverse side IS the cheque. It's easy to
> discard or lose this, so be careful to read those junkmail looking
> postcards, they may be a cheque.
>
I have seen this as well. The postcard check had to be cashed within 60
days and could not be cashed by a third party. This after taking about 5
months to get to me. And yes it looked like junkmail.
John
You're absolutely correct. I may verbal, but I don't sit on my hands.
I used one Canon number to find the Canon Rebate status phone number. I
then called the Canon Rebate status number.
As it turns out, the error message was in error. The person at Canon
Rebate was holding my UPC codes in his hand (his words).
He said that the rebate would be sent out in a few weeks.
Which leads me to ponder another mystery. In the age of the Internet
and fast computers, why would it take weeks to months to send out a
rebate check?
One rebate said that if I don't receive the rebate in 12 (twelve, that's
a dozen) weeks I should call to determine the status. I wonder if
they're hoping that I'll forget about the rebate in 3 months?
el...@no.spam
HeyBub <heybub...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I got a rebate check sometime back. It came in a nondescript envelope via
>"Bulk Mail" (now known as "Standard Mail").
At least it was in an envelope. The last check I got was printed on a
postcard.
el...@no.spam
Bill <bill...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>He could also file a BBB complaint against Canon.
Don't bother with BBB. They're worthless.
anon
may be able to get contact info there for someone at
Canon, the retailer, or the rebate house.
it may be a cliche, but it's true that the squeaky wheel
gets the grease. If you're not going away like many do,
you should get someone to take care of you.
good luck.
T Shadow
"Bill" <bill...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:4595602C...@prodigy.net...
Ever read Websites Privacy Policies?
Know what a web beacon is?
I've used other online operations. This is going way too far IMHO.
Tim S.
> I know that the institution of rebates is meant to rip you off so I'm
> quite anal about paying attention to the details and ALWAYS sending in
> the rebate with delivery confirmation. The delivery confirmation at
> least minimizes the "Sorry, we never received your rebate" or "Sorry, we
> didn't receive your rebate in time" excuses.
>
> I read the rebate forms several times looking for the "gotcha's". I know
> I go through way more trouble than I should for $20-$50 but it's the
> principle. They make it as annoying as possible to claim a rebate so
> that most people won't bother. I'm the one that bothers.
>
> I send in my rebate to Canon along with all the rebate form, purchase
> receipt and I cut out the UPC code from the box and put that in the
> envelope. My new tactic is to use wide tape and tape the UPC code to
> the rebate form.
>
> I checked on my rebate status just now.
>
> Error(s): An original qualifying UPC was not included
>
> Yep. No matter how hard I tried, Canon still managed to screw me over.
>
> Since they want "an original" qualifying UPC", my copy won't suffice.
>
> Canon, the next time I'm in the market for a product I'll remember this
> incident.
>
>
TROLL ALERT!!!!!
The Etobian
wrote:
>It would appear that their excuse was because they were able to "lose"
>your UPC since you didn't physically attach it.
I bought a Canon from a big-box store several years ago. Canon tried
to B.S. their way out of the rebate even though I stapled the UPC to
the form, and scanned what I did. After a year of complaining, I
finally got my $50 rebate. In rersponse to my complaints, they kept
asking for "new" things, like the front page of the printer manual,
"photocopy" of the printer driver CD, etc.
I also had cc.'d the big-box store. The week before I got my check
from Canon, the store offered to pay me $50 in cash, which I got when
I went to the store.
Did I cash the check? Hell, ya. I consider it payment for the time
Canon made me jump through hoops by falsely denying my rebate.
clifto
> John wrote:
>> There's no other way of phrasing it: CANON RIPPED ME OFF EVEN THOUGH I
>> FOLLOWED ALL THE RULES.
>
> Actually, it is the Redemption company who is Canon's representative
> who is doing the "ripping offing".
>
> It would appear that their excuse was because they were able to "lose"
> your UPC since you didn't physically attach it.
I don't have to go back to the OP's article to know that he expressly
said he *always* attaches the UPC to the rebate form with tape.
--
Nazi: a person who is winning an argument with a liberal.
el...@no.spam
John <Jo...@nospam.net> wrote:
>Which leads me to ponder another mystery. In the age of the Internet
>and fast computers, why would it take weeks to months to send out a
>rebate check?
It doesn't. But they want the float.
Bill
-hh wrote:
> And just to re-archive the meat of their sales pitch:
>
> [QUOTE]
>
> "...TCA Fulfillment stands behind these rates. If you are using another
> fulfillment company, add 20% to these redemption rates."
Interestingly, TCA is out of business. Coincidence?
Bill
Bill
John wrote:
> He said that the rebate would be sent out in a few weeks.
>
> Which leads me to ponder another mystery. In the age of the Internet
> and fast computers, why would it take weeks to months to send out a
> rebate check?
It's because the rebate house doesn't have the money from the
manufacturer/retailer. It appears that they have to invoice the
company, then a check is cut (eventually), and THEN you get
paid. If the rebate house does not get paid (and it happens),
then the consumer does not get paid.
Some rebate houses may sit on the money for a while to get the
float as well. I've never seen that confirmed. The best
companies appear to have money "in the bank" at the rebate
processor, so the check can be cut very quickly.
Bill
Bill
Depends on the company you're complaining to. As I said, I had a
very quick response from Parago (Rebateshq.com) and they fixed
all my problems.
I currently have a BBB complaint in against Toys R Us, they are
trying to lie their way out of a $10 (yes, $10) rebate. I went
back and forth with their "customer service" person several
times via email, during which time this person lied and then
contradicted themselves in an effort to avoid paying me the $10
I am clearly due. I may not get my $10, but I've certainly
gotten my $10 worth of revenge by warning people about them.
And BTW, this is proof that no matter how careful you are, there
ARE still companies out there who will screw you. I didn't
expect it of Toys R Us, however.
Oh, and if you want to see their emails and my rebate
submission, you can view them here:
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=68659&t=368665
Bill
Barry Watzman
label. I cut off all the bar codes from the box just in case."
That is NOT the thing to do. Now you are relying on the data entry
person to pick the right bar code. Let me tell you what happens to a
lot of these: They arrive at the rebate center (many are in Miami or
Texas), and they get sent for actual processing to a center in Hatti,
the Dominican Republic or Mexico where some barely literate clerk
processes them. The clerk has a scanner, she scans the bar code you
sent in, it's recognized as valid or invalid. Many of these boxes have
nearly a dozen bar codes on them. Only ONE of those is the UPC barcode.
If the clerk doesn't scan the right barcode .... even if it was among
the many that you sent in .... at best you are in for a hassle, at worst
you don't get your rebate.
You have to make things easy and as "idiot proof" as possible for the
clerk processing your rebate. That is simply part of the game; the
fulfillment center is using the cheapest labor they can get (to save
them money, not specifically to disqualify you). Your handwriting
(PRINTING) has to be legible (and preferably include -- in addition to
but not instead of the printed entry, which is often required by the
rules -- a rubber stamp or adhesive label PRINTED version of your name,
address, etc.). And if it says "UPC label", you send the UPC label ---
ONLY --- (unless other labels, like the serial number, were specifically
requested. DO NOT throw in every bar code on the product, because there
is a very good chance that the wrong one will be scanned.
By the way, regarding "If the rebate is a PDF form then using Adobe Pro,
I add text fields and type in everything in 14 point bold Arial font.
That way they can't claim they can't read my writing."
The rules often REQUIRE that the form be filled out by hand. This is
done to make fraudulent mass rebate applications more difficult. I
always also include a printed, sticker or rubber stamped version of the
same information, but the actual form should be filled out by hand.
You just are not playing "the game" very well. And one of the main
rules is to know, just by looking at a box, which barcode is the UPC
barcode.
Bill
As I said in another post, for everyone who complains about it
coming in a non-descript envelope, there will be another person
who complains about it being sent as a postcard. That said, I
don't think I've ever heard of people having problems with
postcard checks being taken. Amongst other things, I suspect it
is federal offense to steal it.
Bill
Barry Watzman
"instant rebates".
The rest of your post is conjecture that may be true in some cases and
not true in others. From the customer's perspective, it doesn't matter:
An instant rebate is just a sale price (and sales taxes are NOT paid
on the rebate amount; only the "net" rings on the register and is
charged tax).
M Berger wrote:
> You have missed a big part of the picture.
>
> With mail in rebates, the store sales figures aren't
> decreased as they would be with the instant reduction.
> Localities like it because they get the full sales tax
> amount.
>
> In most cases the store doesn't pay the rebate, the parent
> company or manufacturer does.
>
>
> Barry Watzman wrote:
>> An "instant rebate" isn't a rebate at all, it's just a sale price.
>> And no doubt that it's better than a mail-in rebate of the same
>> amount, but you will NEVER find "instant rebates" that are the
>> equivalent of the larger mail-in rebates. The rebate "system" depends
>> on the fact that only a minority of buyers will ever apply for the
>> rebate.
Barry Watzman
(there are some that are, but a small minority)), and as for your
"check", I almost never get an envelope at all, they are almost always
just postcards.
HeyBub wrote:
> James wrote:
>> As has been adequately explained here before, rebates are by their
>> very nature a scam. There is no logical explanation for a rebate
>> program other than being a scam.
>
> Here's further proof:
>
> I got a rebate check sometime back. It came in a nondescript envelope via
> "Bulk Mail" (now known as "Standard Mail").
>
Barry Watzman
rebate does not show up on the sales receipt. It's a separate
transaction that occurs (or doesn't) later.
M Berger wrote:
> No you don't. You pay sales tax on the product price.
> The rebate is not a sale price. It's a rebate.
>
> Malcolm Hoar wrote:
>
>> On top of all that, in CA at least, you pay sales tax on the
>> rebate amount.
>>
Barry Watzman
..... $xxx.xx) look like junk mail?
DerbyDad03
A number of years ago I went to one of those big box electronics store
to buy 2 computer systems for my kids for Christmas. With all the
various rebates, the total "list price" of $1750 (which no one in their
right mind would ever pay) was going to be reduced to roughly $800.
When I went to check out, I was asked if I wanted to open a store
credit card. One of the features of the card was "unemployment
protection" where for a small monthly fee they would pay off 10% of the
card balance each month while the cardholder is unemployed.
Well, at the time of the purchase I was employed, but a few weeks
earlier I had been informed that I was going to be downsized at the end
of the year. Naturally I jumped on this offer. I put the $1750 on the
card and mailed in all the paperwork for the ~$950 in rebates, which I
promptly put in the bank.
Starting in January, I submitted my first un-employment claim and they
paid ~$175 toward my balance. The next month they paid ~$155, and so on
for the 6 months that I was out of work. By the time I found a job, the
balance on my card was less than the rebate money I had banked. I then
used most of the rebate money to pay off the balance of the card.
In the end, I ended up with 2 complete systems (CPU, monitors,
printers, etc) and about $50 extra in my pocket.
Nice, huh?
clifto
> Officially, is no "delivery confirmation" for envelopes (very
> unfortunately), only for packages. The official USPS policy is that you
> can only do delivery confirmation for packages or letters that are more
> than 3/4 of an inch thick.
http://pe.usps.gov/text/DMM300/503.htm#6_0
Bob (but not THAT Bob)
>
> Bob (but not THAT Bob) wrote:
> > > people buy based on this.
> > > 50-80% never claim them.
> > > Rebates take 8-12 weeks and often are never delivered, another 50%
> > > forget about them.
> > > They force you to call someone to fix the problem or ask where your
> > > rebate is 16 weeks past due delivery time.
> > > At the end of it all, according to various business studies, only 3% of
> > > rebates are ever paid out. So, they can boost sales with what might
> > > amount to a 0.5% overall discount paid.
> > > It is business genius.
> >
> > I get every damn rebate I file, so I'm saving money at the expense of
> > illiterates/incompetents - so what?
>
> No problem, I'm just pointing out the differences between mail-in
> rebates and instant rebates.
> Having automatic computer verification of rebates at the time of sale
> would increase payouts massively, but the companies don't want that at
> all. Meanwhile, there is also the chance with instant rebates your
> name and other information wouldn't be sold to a 1000 different
> databases months afterward....
Oddly enough I haven't seem a spam increase EXCEPT when a company
specifically says to uncheck a box to stay off their mailing list.
A deluge always follows.
David Nebenzahl
> Mön§igñor ßoddoM wrote:
>
>> I have seen this as well. The postcard check had to be cashed within
>> 60 days and could not be cashed by a third party. This after taking
>> about 5 months to get to me. And yes it looked like junkmail.
>
> How can a postcard that is a legally valid check (Pay to the order of
> ..... $xxx.xx) look like junk mail?
Believe us, it can; just another of the many weapons in the arsenal of
the lying, scum-sucking retailers who use this phony-baloney practice to
make more bux.
--
Just as McDonald's is where you go when you're hungry but don't really
care about the quality of your food, Wikipedia is where you go when
you're curious but don't really care about the quality of your knowledge.
- Matthew White's WikiWatch (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)
Tony Hwang
Hmmm,
You must feel good about it? Once I purchased an item from Office Depot
which came with a rebate coupon. I claimed it and mailed papers in.
Few days later I changed my mind and returned the item. Then few weeks
later rebate check came. I sort of felt guilty about it but loop hole
was there at their fault.
DerbyDad03
The difference between my experience and yours is that I did not have
to rely on any "loop hole". I followed every rule concerning the
rebates, I paid the fee for the unemployment insurance coverage and I
did indeed use the rebate to reduce the price of my computer systems.
I simply took advantage of the timing of the rebates, the features of
the charge card and the (oh by the way) wonderful experience of being
downsized and unemployed for 6 months.
Barry Watzman
"Return Receipt", which is a totally different animal. Not the same
thing at all.
[And some rebate processors won't accept items sent with return receipt
because it requires an employee to sign for the item.]
Also note from the same page, but much further down in another section:
"Delivery Confirmation is available for First-Class Mail PARCELS" {my
emphasis}; in another section it states more explicilty "parcels only",
e.g. NOT FOR LETTERS, unless they qualify as "parcels" (generally, that
means at least 3/4 of an inch thick).
Barry Watzman
looks like. I also know what a UPC code looks like, and what MICR is
and what routing numbers and account numbers are. I will never mistake
a postcard that is a valid check for junk mail. And anyone who does
deserves to forfeit the check made payable to them.
Malcolm Hoar
>Sorry, I don't believe you. You see, I have eyes, and know what a check
>looks like. I also know what a UPC code looks like, and what MICR is
>and what routing numbers and account numbers are. I will never mistake
>a postcard that is a valid check for junk mail. And anyone who does
>deserves to forfeit the check made payable to them.
You're right, up to a point.
But my mailbox is choked full of daily junk much of
which is intentionally designed to deceive.
Like you, I am not easily fooled. But clearly some
people are and that's why companies continue to send
out this crap (at considerable cost to them).
Can I believe that some rebate processors mail out
checks in a format designed to increase the likelihood
the check will junked and never presented? Absolutely!
Corporations, including big Fortune 100 corporations,
send me a huge variety of mailings that incorporate
such deceptive practices on a daily basis.
--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| ma...@malch.com Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Nebenzahl
> In article <4595e163$0$4908$4c36...@roadrunner.com>, Barry Watzman <Watzma...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>Sorry, I don't believe you. You see, I have eyes, and know what a check
>>looks like. I also know what a UPC code looks like, and what MICR is
>>and what routing numbers and account numbers are. I will never mistake
>>a postcard that is a valid check for junk mail. And anyone who does
>>deserves to forfeit the check made payable to them.
>
> You're right, up to a point.
>
> But my mailbox is choked full of daily junk much of
> which is intentionally designed to deceive.
>
> Like you, I am not easily fooled. But clearly some
> people are and that's why companies continue to send
> out this crap (at considerable cost to them).
>
> Can I believe that some rebate processors mail out
> checks in a format designed to increase the likelihood
> the check will junked and never presented? Absolutely!
>
> Corporations, including big Fortune 100 corporations,
> send me a huge variety of mailings that incorporate
> such deceptive practices on a daily basis.
And not just to consumers: when I owned a business, I regularly got
these "official"-looking notices that, if you didn't read them too
carefully, looked like something issued by a government agency, telling
you that you needed to update your worker's comp posters. In fact, they
were from some scamming company that sold the package (for $49.95 or
some such), with absolutely no authority behind their claims that you'd
better buy them and put them up, or else.
It's the American way.
HeyBub
> HeyBub wrote:
>>
>> Here's further proof:
>>
>> I got a rebate check sometime back. It came in a nondescript
>> envelope via "Bulk Mail" (now known as "Standard Mail").
>>
>> I normally toss snail-mail-spam. Probably millions others do too.
>> Evidently the rebate company tried to take advantage of this social
>> engineering concept.
>
> toss unknown mail, then put a special middle initial on your
> rebate forms and then you'll know when it's a check.
Good idea.
>
> Let me guess that you also complain about postcard checks as
> being too easy to steal, and you'd also complain about an
> envelope that said "your rebate check is enclosed!!".
It's generally not a wise to guess about what I'm thinking. Inasmuch as it's
against federal law to send invoices by Standard Mail (look at your
telephone bill's envelope), one would think a similar rationale would apply
to other financial instruments.
Matt Clara
news:3ahlh.159405$xM4.1...@newsfe07.phx...
>
> TROLL ALERT!!!!!
>
??? You are announcing your presence, perhaps?
M Berger
involved in the transaction. People are complaining that
rebates aren't for their exclusive benefit. They're
right. But nobody is forcing you to buy the product.
M Berger
2 computers and $ 50 out of it!
DerbyDad03 wrote:
...
M Berger
you $ 10. They don't charge sales tax. You already
paid it when you bought the product.