getting rid of orange cast of c41 developed in bw chem.

[Some Dude]

I have done this succesfully with E6 films removing the remjet but the
same doesn't seem to work for C41 films too well. I have mixed citric
acid with non-hardening fixer per Kodak and it will not bleach out
(much) of the orange cast.

Are there any other (perhaps stronger) recipes out there to get the
orange cast off the negative?

Thanks!

[uraniumc...@yahoo.com]

It's in the film and cannot be removed. Don't waste your time.

[Randy Stewart]

<uraniumc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1104772559.1...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

> It's in the film and cannot be removed. Don't waste your time.
>

Oh, that can't be - you're talking to the guy who removes "remjet" from E-6
films [which have no remjet to remove].

[Some Dude]

Analyst:

Thanks. I actually made a very strong bleaching recipe (about 3x
stronger than kodak recommends) and was able to get a decent amount of
the cast off..enough for the scanner to see the frame spacers and scan
the film well..so it was worth it :)

For the Trolls:

Sorry what I meant to say is Kodachrome K-14 process.
Lots of trolls in these hills lately apparently.

[Some Dude]

Well in most cases yes (assuming you are developing semi-normally
c41-bw. But if you get extremely dark and unwieldly negatives that are
nearly opaque my 8000 won't scan the negative at all (even with Vuescan
set all manual). It will reject scanning the film because it can't see
*any* image. By bleaching the negative I was at least able to scan the
roll.. I have been doing a lot of experimentations with c41 in bw
chemicals and some development times are in the days...

Thanks!

the analyst wrote:
> Dude,
> there is no need to destroy mask dyes. When you scan your neg in the
> film scanner, it will take care of it and present you with a nice
> positive image. When you bleach your neg you negate the benefit of
> masking dyes. It is not worth time and effoert.
> That mask is required for good color reproduction.
>
>
> On 4 Jan 2005 13:51:04 -0800, "Some Dude" <fotoo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> *Analyst:
> *
> *Thanks. I actually made a very strong bleaching recipe (about 3x
> *stronger than kodak recommends) and was able to get a decent amount
of
> *the cast off..enough for the scanner to see the frame spacers and
scan
> *the film well..so it was worth it :)
> *
> *
> *
> *For the Trolls:
> *
> *Sorry what I meant to say is Kodachrome K-14 process.
> *Lots of trolls in these hills lately apparently.

[Justin Thyme]

"the analyst" <unli...@due2spam.on.net> wrote in message
news:m8fkt0dcevc1d2di6...@4ax.com...
> sorry Dude,
> it will not work. that orange stuff is formed by dyes correcting not
> so ideal properties of the dyes forming an image. you cannot destroy
> them selectively, all dyes will go at the same time.
He's developing the C41 in bw chem, so colour dyes don't develop, only the
silver develops. I have dev'd c41 in bw and the result is a bw neg with a
very very dark brown base. with normal c41 chem, you remove all the dye
except for the orange base, resulting in a bright orange neg. However none
of the dye gets removed at all when you process in bw chem, so you don't
even get the bright orange neg, you get a dense dark brown neg. If you were
to use c41 bleach, you would lose the silver, and hence the image.
> BTW, which of E6 films has carbon black anti-halo?
>
> On 3 Jan 2005 08:55:48 -0800, "Some Dude" <fotoo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> *I have done this succesfully with E6 films removing the remjet but the
> *same doesn't seem to work for C41 films too well. I have mixed citric
> *acid with non-hardening fixer per Kodak and it will not bleach out
> *(much) of the orange cast.
> *
> *Are there any other (perhaps stronger) recipes out there to get the
> *orange cast off the negative?
> *
> *Thanks!
>

[Process C-22]

Hello there,

You can convert a B/W processed C-41 film back into a colour neg film.
It is a bit long-winded and the colour reproduction is not exactly the
same as it would have been, but it would solve (most of) your problems.
The negs would still benefit from scanning.

We used to charge £15 per roll for this type of recovery, but I have
not done it for a while. If you are interested, drop us a line - we
can always do a clip test for you to see if it works well enough on
your film (I didn't see what film brand you were using - some behave
differently to others due to the anti-halation layer techniques used)
I will have to get some samples of this sort of thing on the website
when it reappears.

Dominic Roberts
'Process C-22'
England

email - info 'at' processc22.co.uk
http://www.processc22.co.uk

[Richard Knoppow]

The orange color is not in the support. It is the unconverted color
couplers in the emulsion. The couplers in two of the layers (in Kodak
films) are designed to be complimentary to the "parasitic" transmission
of the dyes. This results in automatic masking which improves color
rendition. In normal color development the couplers are converted to
dye by a chain reaction of development. The type of developer used for
color reacts with the silver to produce another compound which
subsequently reacts with the couplers to produce the dye. Most normally
used B&W developers do not produce the right reaction products to
generate the dye to the result is a silver image along with the
unreacted couplers. The couplers can be removed with a bleach without
affecting the silver image. The bleach mentioned earlier, namely rapid
fixer with citric acid added, is a mild silver solvent recommended for
removing dichroic fog (which is metallic silver) and for mild reduction
of the density. I am not sure how effective it is for removing the
couplers. Kodak, at one time, had a bulletin posted on their website
about how to remove the couplers, but I could not find it when I looked
recently. I probablly have this bulletin stored somewhere. I suspect
that someone at Kodak customer service could find it, at least its
worth a phone call or e-mail. I will look among my collection of stuff
for this.
As long as the couplers remain the film can be redeveloped to bring
out the color. Once the couplers are removed they are BW silver images
forever.
--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dick...@ix.netcom.com

[Process C-22]

Thanks Richard for a most comprehensive answer as usual! If you do
find that memo, coupld you email it to us, as it will prove very
useful.

Another point to note is the citric acid bleach will also remove the
yellow filter layer, which accounts for the 'orange stain', as well as
a portion of the silver anti-halo - the 'brown stain'. This is
particularly noticeable if your are BW processing older films such as
35mm Kodacolor II.

Dominic Roberts
Process C-22

info 'at' processc22.co.uk

[Some Dude]

Thanks for the comments.

As a matter of fact the mild silver solvent for fog removing worked
well enough to be able to scan the negative which was my ultimate goal
so..thanks!

Cheers,
sd

[Some Dude]

p.s. Richard please email me if you find this information in your
collection. :)

Thanks,sd
alex (*at*) zoom.sh

[stewy]

anyone...@hotmail.com wrote:

The orange cast was put there before the photographic dyes were placed on
the film, you'll have to remove the dyes (and hence the image) before you'll
remove the cast completely. Take my advice and try turning Tri-X into
Kodachrome with your chemicals.... Then get a film scanner.