Breeds I get confused (was: What kind of dog?)
Mary Healey
the effort to entertain, communicate and educate, here is a
self-confessed idiot's list of ....
BREEDS I GET CONFUSED:
Pembroke & Cardigan Corgis
Australian Shepherds and Border Collies
Great Pyr & Kuvasz
Chessies & choc. Labs - sometimes
Portugese Water Dogs, Irish Water Spaniel, Standard Poodle (so one
curly dog looks like all the other curly dogs, sue me!)
Greyhounds and Whippets
Irish Wolfhounds and Scottish Deerhounds
Shih Tzu & Lhasa Apso
Smooth Fox Terrier & Jack Russell Terrier ("long legged")
--
Mary and the Ames (Iowa, USA) National Zoo:
Raise a Fund ("Regis", 9yo TB)
ANZ Sam-I-Am (4 yo ACDx) & ANZ Noah Doll, CGC (1 yo ACD)
Emma, Gareth, Rhiannon & Sibyl (cats from h*ll)
more finches and fewer fish every day!
Lisa K. Baird
Okay Mary, Being FAR from an "expert", I'll give you My checklist of "how
to" on you list of breeds:
: BREEDS I GET CONFUSED:
: Pembroke & Cardigan Corgis
Pembroke's are the tailless ones ("broke"en tail) Cardigans have long
tails (like "cardigan" sweaters")
: Australian Shepherds and Border Collies
Other than the tails (BC's-yes, Aussies-no) this is tuff. In GENERAL,
Aussies are a little "bulkier", heavier set dog than BC's, in my exp.
: Great Pyr & Kuvasz
Again, general bulkiness. Pyr's look more like a Newfie type, Kuvasz are
a little lighter boned.
: Chessies & choc. Labs - sometimes
Chessies are supposed to be high in the rear, have a narrower head (I think)
: Portugese Water Dogs, Irish Water Spaniel, Standard Poodle (so one
: curly dog looks like all the other curly dogs, sue me!)
Hey! I OWN a PWD, and I promise not to sue you!<VBG> PWD's and Irish-
Irish come ONLY in a brown color, PWD's can be black or brown, with or
with/out white, and parti-color. Irish have ringlet type curls and bare
tails and faces. PWD's can be curly or wavy, have a "plume" on the end of
the tail and DO grow hair on the face, though it can be shaved. Irish are
a tall, slim dog, PWD's are stockier.
Poodles- Well, I assume you have toys and mini's down? MOST standards are
bigger than PWD's (not sure of size of Irish). There ears are set lower
and are spaniel-like, PWD ears set higher and out from the head like a
ret. The Poodle muzzle is longer and narrower than the PWD, which should
have skull longer than muzzle.
: Greyhounds and Whippets
Size is the only way I know, Grey being the larger
: Irish Wolfhounds and Scottish Deerhounds
IW's are larger, heavier, Deerhounds have a narower build and head
: Shih Tzu & Lhasa Apso
theoretically, Shih-Tzu's are smaller, with a more squashed face.
: Smooth Fox Terrier & Jack Russell Terrier ("long legged")
beats me!
Hope this helps, but of course when you see a really BAD example of any
breed, it makes ID tougher!
Lisa and the k-9 crew
Truly Donovan
>Hope this helps, but of course when you see a really BAD example of any
>breed, it makes ID tougher!
I read her breed standard to Molly so we could both have a good laugh; we have
a piece of paper magnetted to the refrigerator that certifies she's an
honest-to-God WHWT. The only characteristic in the standard that she
conforms to 100% is the part about "no small amount of self esteem."
I decided on a pure-bred in the first place because I wanted the personality
characteristics that were ascribed to the breed. I'm not going to show her or
breed her. Is she a really BAD example?
Truly Donovan
Lisa K. Baird
: I read her breed standard to Molly so we could both have a good laugh; we have
: honest-to-God WHWT. The only characteristic in the standard that she
: conforms to 100% is the part about "no small amount of self esteem."
: I decided on a pure-bred in the first place because I wanted the personality
: characteristics that were ascribed to the breed. I'm not going to show her or
: breed her. Is she a really BAD example?
: Truly Donovan
Truly, I LOVE your name! I have a Portuguese Water Dog named, "Truly"!
Anyway, my use of the word "bad" was not a put down statment, just meant
physical comparison to the breed standard. I am glad you are so happy
with your Westie. If you got a particular breed because of the breeds
personality, great, you got it. Many people gert one becauyse of a
certain "lookk" also, and are sorely disapointed when their choice looks
NOTHING like the "picture in the book", because of lack of selective
breeding.
ROCHELLE NEWMAN
>
>Okay Mary, Being FAR from an "expert", I'll give you My checklist of "how
>to" on you list of breeds:
>
>
>IW's are larger, heavier, Deerhounds have a narower build and head
Actually, I have a friend with a 116 lb wolfhound, and the mom of my
deerhound is (I think ) within 2 lbs. of that. (i.e., small IW, and large
SD, for a female). But IWs are much broader in the body, and not as leggy.
And they come in a variety of colors; I believe the non-grey colors of
deerhounds have been lost... (or, so I've heard...)
-roche
******************************************************************************
Rochelle Newman Brain: Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?
rochelle%art@ Pinky: I think so, Brain, but if we didn't have ears,
ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu we'd look like weasels!
******************************************************************************
hst...@indyvax.iupui.edu
> Exception has been taken to the "what kind of dog?" thread. So, in
> the effort to entertain, communicate and educate, here is a
> self-confessed idiot's list of ....
>
> BREEDS I GET CONFUSED:
I get lots of them confused... :-)
>...
> Chessies & choc. Labs - sometimes
But! I figured this one out the other day when I got to meet a Chessie...
Chessies are the ones who look like a very plush pile carpet. :-)
-Holly
Cindy Tittle Moore
>Exception has been taken to the "what kind of dog?" thread. So, in
>the effort to entertain, communicate and educate, here is a
>self-confessed idiot's list of ....
>BREEDS I GET CONFUSED:
>Pembroke & Cardigan Corgis
Pembroke's tails broke off.
>Australian Shepherds and Border Collies
See prev, but usually BC's have tailes and Aussies don't.
>Great Pyr & Kuvasz
GP's have double rear dewclaws. They can also have gray patches on
their head while K. don't. THere is also some structural differences
in the head shape -- GP's have sort of a rounded head, and K.'s are
more angular.
>Chessies & choc. Labs - sometimes
Yes, sometimes this one is difficult. Some tips:
the curlier the coat, the more likely a chessie
the ligher brown the coat, the more likely a chessie
the lighter yellow the eyes, the more liekly a chessie
the longer the legs, esp. the higher the rear, the more likely a chessie
the more hard-headed temperament, the more likely a chessie
the lower the earset the more likely a chessie
>Portugese Water Dogs, Irish Water Spaniel, Standard Poodle (so one
> curly dog looks like all the other curly dogs, sue me!)
Let's see..properly groomed PWD's have a very distinctive topknot of
hair. They also seem to have a slighly longer show coat than the
other breeds. IWS's are smaller than PWD's. Standard Poodles have
the show cuts, but they also have a narrower head than the other two,
come in colors other than black or brown and have a very springy gait.
Withouth the show coats, I have much more trouble, of course.
Don't forget the curly coated retriever! Though I think this one is
more distinctive than the others, especially since the tail differs.
>Greyhounds and Whippets
Size. Whippets are, what 30is lbs, Greyhounds go up to 60. Italian
greyhounds are the minatures of the bunch. I sometimes have trouble
with a largish IG or a smallish Whippet.
>Irish Wolfhounds and Scottish Deerhounds
SD's are a little smaller and lighter in build than IW's. I *think*
they also have more color variation.
>Shih Tzu & Lhasa Apso
You got me. Throw the Maltese and the Westies in here, too.
Show condition I can often tell apart, but not standard pet attires.
>Smooth Fox Terrier & Jack Russell Terrier ("long legged")
SFT's have a very different heat than JRT's. There's much less of a
stop. (I did impress the socks off the last SFT owner I encountered;
he said everyone thought it was a JRT. I also just saw a
rought-coated JRT the other day -- CUTE!!)
Here's a few more:
Norwich vs. Norfolk
(Norwich's have witches hat for ears, ie upright, NorFolks have Folded ears)
Someone asked about Elkhounds and Keeshonden. The former are larger
and the latter usually have longer, fluffier coats.
Cheers,
--Cindy
--
Cindy Tittle Moore tit...@netcom.com PO Box 4188, Irvine, CA 92716
Waggery Labradors: Terrell's Chocolate Deduction CGC--Hershe
Delby's Wood Nymph at Waggery--Angel
* Read the weekly FAQ article to find out how to get the FAQs by ftp or email! *
Cindy Tittle Moore
Sounds like it, conformation wise. But what you wanted was a pet, and
it sounds like she's a GREAT pet. So you have what you wanted, eh?
But how does she not match? Remember, the standard will be describing
a properly groomed WHWT. If she's in a pet cut, or whatever, then she
may not much resemble the description, any more than a poodle in a
puppy/sporting cut might resemble waht goes out in the ring.
Bob Stewart
> a piece of paper magnetted to the refrigerator that certifies she's an
> honest-to-God WHWT. The only characteristic in the standard that she
This acronym business is getting a little silly. I'll have to start reading
rpd (arrgggh I did it myself) with an AKC breed book in hand.
WHWT. Hmmm. What the Hell Was That? Weasle Herding Wonder Tiger?
Where? Here? What? Think! We Heard Who Talked? White Headed Woods Titmouse?
OK. I admit my best guess is Wire Haired Wheaton Terrier, but I only
rememeber Wheaton's because a character in a book I liked was humanoid with
the head of a soft-coated Wheaton Terrier.
We all have to remember that everyone isn't a fanatic. Mixing in acronyms
does not reduce confusion.
Bob
Cindy Tittle Moore
>In article <truly.40...@lunemere.com>, tr...@lunemere.com (Truly
>Donovan) writes:
>> a piece of paper magnetted to the refrigerator that certifies she's an
>> honest-to-God WHWT. The only characteristic in the standard that she
>This acronym business is getting a little silly. I'll have to start reading
>rpd (arrgggh I did it myself) with an AKC breed book in hand.
>WHWT. Hmmm. What the Hell Was That? Weasle Herding Wonder Tiger?
>Where? Here? What? Think! We Heard Who Talked? White Headed Woods Titmouse?
I like it!
West Highland White Terrier.
Connie Cho
>>Great Pyr & Kuvasz
>
>GP's have double rear dewclaws. They can also have gray patches on
>their head while K. don't. THere is also some structural differences
>in the head shape -- GP's have sort of a rounded head, and K.'s are
>more angular.
Glad to see that I am not the only one thrown by these two. GP also
seem to be a tad more massive, wheras Kuvasz seem just a bit leggier.
>
>>Chessies & choc. Labs - sometimes
>
>Yes, sometimes this one is difficult. Some tips:
>the curlier the coat, the more likely a chessie
Do any chessies occur with an almost straight coat? I thought
the lamb-like coat was a strong characteristic.
My goodness, the ones I have seen have been dominant as all hell.
One in an obedience class wouldn't stop biting her owner when told
to sit. They had to get pretty rough with her. Interestingly, it was
a woman working with her, and she got bitten all the time; her
husband never got bitten.
>
>>Shih Tzu & Lhasa Apso
>
>You got me. Throw the Maltese and the Westies in here, too.
>
>Show condition I can often tell apart, but not standard pet attires.
It seems to me that the LA has larger eyes, whereas the ST's are
sort of deepset among the hair. But they do look incredibly alike.
Are pet Maltese generally clipped? The show ones are very
distinctive.
>
>
>Someone asked about Elkhounds and Keeshonden. The former are larger
>and the latter usually have longer, fluffier coats.
Elkhounds also seem to have disproportionately sized chests
(real barrel chests) The Keeshound I have seen tend to be built
along dainter lines.
How about the various white Spitzes, AmEskies, and Sams (young)?
Truly Donovan
>>In article <2qqt6r$d...@rigel.infinet.com> lba...@infinet.com (Lisa K. Baird) writes:
>>>Hope this helps, but of course when you see a really BAD example of any
>>>breed, it makes ID tougher!
>>I read her breed standard to Molly so we could both have a good laugh; we have
>>a piece of paper magnetted to the refrigerator that certifies she's an
>>honest-to-God WHWT. The only characteristic in the standard that she
>>conforms to 100% is the part about "no small amount of self esteem."
>>I decided on a pure-bred in the first place because I wanted the personality
>>characteristics that were ascribed to the breed. I'm not going to show her or
>>breed her. Is she a really BAD example?
>Sounds like it, conformation wise. But what you wanted was a pet, and
>it sounds like she's a GREAT pet. So you have what you wanted, eh?
>But how does she not match? Remember, the standard will be describing
>a properly groomed WHWT. If she's in a pet cut, or whatever, then she
>may not much resemble the description, any more than a poodle in a
>puppy/sporting cut might resemble waht goes out in the ring.
She's a Westie with Yoda ears, a too-long muzzle, a too-long tail, and an
itty-bitty black spot on her shoulder. But people who recognize Westies at
all never mistake her for anything else; probably has something to do with
that self-esteem bit. She doesn't have a show trim -- we need all that hair
on her neck for when she wrestles with her pals; that's where they all try
to grab her and they just get a mouthful of hair.
Truly Donovan
Truly Donovan
I have to apologize. I started reading this group a few weeks ago and was
really bummed by having to go to the breed book to find out what GSDs, ACDs,
BCs, etc., were. Being relatively knowledgable about dogs, I was further
bummed when someone complained that a GSD owner didn't *know* what a GSD was
and that owner was therefore somehow deficient as an owner of a GSD.
Using WHWT for my West Highland White Terrier was an inexcusable attempt to
get some of my own back. (For some reason I don't quite understand myself, I
don't care for the diminutive "Westie" and when someone asks what kind of a
dog is that, they always get the full 7 syllables in reply.)
Again, I apologize.
Truly Donovan
Laura Johnson
: WHWT. Hmmm. What the Hell Was That? Weasle Herding Wonder Tiger?
: Where? Here? What? Think! We Heard Who Talked? White Headed Woods Titmouse?
Ha! GREAT!!
If I didn't know a guy who breeds West Highland White Terriers, I
probably wouldn't have "gotten" this one either. (Or maybe it
really was a Weasle Herding Wonder Tiger. We can't be sure.)
Cindy Tittle Moore
>In article <tittleCp...@netcom.com> tit...@netcom.com (Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:
>>>Great Pyr & Kuvasz
>>
>>GP's have double rear dewclaws. They can also have gray patches on
>>their head while K. don't. THere is also some structural differences
>>in the head shape -- GP's have sort of a rounded head, and K.'s are
>>more angular.
>Glad to see that I am not the only one thrown by these two. GP also
>seem to be a tad more massive, wheras Kuvasz seem just a bit leggier.
Yes, someone compared the GP's with a Newfoundland in terms of build
and I thought that was a good comparison.
>>>Chessies & choc. Labs - sometimes
>>
>>Yes, sometimes this one is difficult. Some tips:
>>the curlier the coat, the more likely a chessie
>Do any chessies occur with an almost straight coat? I thought
>the lamb-like coat was a strong characteristic.
It is a strong characteristic, but as with any breed there is variation
and a less well-bred one can have slightly wavy hair and some labs (well
bred and not) can have slightly wavy hair and...
I find that looking at the eyes for some reason will always correctly
id between these two, though I'll be durned if I can say why. I think
the shade of yellow in a chessie is qualitatively different than that
in a chocolate, but I couldn't describe it any better than that.
Maybe they have a different eye shape as well.
>My goodness, the ones I have seen have been dominant as all hell.
>One in an obedience class wouldn't stop biting her owner when told
>to sit. They had to get pretty rough with her. Interestingly, it was
>a woman working with her, and she got bitten all the time; her
>husband never got bitten.
They are supposed to be "harder" than labs (as opposed to "soft"). I
see plenty of hard headed labs, though, esp. from field lines. And in
general you can pound most of the sporting breeds and they just come
back for more (whereas if you did the same thing with a dog from the
herding breeds, they'd never talk to you again).
>>>Shih Tzu & Lhasa Apso
>>
>>You got me. Throw the Maltese and the Westies in here, too.
>>
>>Show condition I can often tell apart, but not standard pet attires.
>It seems to me that the LA has larger eyes, whereas the ST's are
>sort of deepset among the hair. But they do look incredibly alike.
I think there's a size difference. Aren't they in different groups?
>Are pet Maltese generally clipped? The show ones are very
>distinctive.
All the small, curly/longish haired breeds kept as pets seem to just
have a 1-2 inch clip most of the time. Or they're never clipped and
just look ragged.
>>Someone asked about Elkhounds and Keeshonden. The former are larger
>>and the latter usually have longer, fluffier coats.
>Elkhounds also seem to have disproportionately sized chests
>(real barrel chests) The Keeshound I have seen tend to be built
>along dainter lines.
>How about the various white Spitzes, AmEskies, and Sams (young)?
American Eskimos are smaller and have a more dainty build. I can
always tell when a dog is a puppy under six months, so a young Sammy
wouldn't throw me. I think Eskies can also be a very light cream
color, and don't the Sammy's have more of a glisten or a shine to
their coats? I mostly use size to figure out which is which.
Wilf Leblanc
>In article <tittleCp...@netcom.com> tit...@netcom.com (Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:
>>
>>>Chessies & choc. Labs - sometimes
>>
>>Yes, sometimes this one is difficult. Some tips:
>>the curlier the coat, the more likely a chessie
>Do any chessies occur with an almost straight coat? I thought
>the lamb-like coat was a strong characteristic.
Lamb like while puppies but curly (or more accurately, I believe,
wavy) as they get older. The fur is quite course as well.
Cheesies (whoops, Chessies !) aren't always brown either ...
>My goodness, the ones I have seen have been dominant as all hell.
>One in an obedience class wouldn't stop biting her owner when told
>to sit. They had to get pretty rough with her. Interestingly, it was
>a woman working with her, and she got bitten all the time; her
>husband never got bitten.
Chessies have a reputation for being quite aggressive. I think the
theory goes that they were meant to retrieve ducks and then guard them
afterwards, so a dog which was too friendly was a bad thing. Chessies
aren't too popular in Canada, but all the ones I've met have been
about aggressive as a lab (i.e. *not* aggressive).
[...]
--
Beatrice Q. (Bulldog, born September 25th, 1992)
Bully X. (Chesapeake Bay R., born June 14th, 1993)
Lisa K. Baird
: Let's see..properly groomed PWD's have a very distinctive topknot of
: hair. They also seem to have a slighly longer show coat than the
: other breeds. IWS's are smaller than PWD's. Standard Poodles have
: the show cuts, but they also have a narrower head than the other two,
: come in colors other than black or brown and have a very springy gait.
Uh oh Cindy, It's Irish that have the topknots, not PWD's. Also I am
ALMOST sure IW's are taller than Porties. PWD females: 17"-21", males:
20"-23" at the withers. From 35 lbs fpr a small female to on the 60's fro
a big male. Also, in the Retriever Clip (hair all over) a PWD should have
no more than 2" of coat. In the Lion Clip you shave face, hindquarters
and tail (except for the plume), let the front grow long.
Bye,Lisa
Cindy Tittle Moore
>I have to apologize. I started reading this group a few weeks ago and was
>really bummed by having to go to the breed book to find out what GSDs, ACDs,
>BCs, etc., were. Being relatively knowledgable about dogs, I was further
>bummed when someone complained that a GSD owner didn't *know* what a GSD was
>and that owner was therefore somehow deficient as an owner of a GSD.
>Using WHWT for my West Highland White Terrier was an inexcusable attempt to
>get some of my own back. (For some reason I don't quite understand myself, I
>don't care for the diminutive "Westie" and when someone asks what kind of a
>dog is that, they always get the full 7 syllables in reply.)
>Again, I apologize.
Nah, don't worry about it. Acronyms are endemic to the 'net, not
because people generally like to confuse others (well..) but because
people DON"T LIKE TO TYPE! Much easier to type WHWT, or GSD, or PBVG, or..
OTOH, I was ROTF and LOL on some of his guesses for WHWT, as I'm sure
he intended. IMO, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
Heh, heh...
--Cindy
(translation: On the other hand, I was rolling on the floor and
laughing out loud on some of his guesses for the West Highland White
Terrier, as I'm sure he intended. In my opinion, I wouldn't lose any
sleep over it.)
Cindy Tittle Moore
I hang my head in shame! I probably have confused the PWDs and the
IWS..sigh. I'll have to go to a few more dog shows <brightens> to
get the two straight.
I find that interesting that PWD's also have different clips. Which
is more common at a show?
See? All of us have our confusable breeds!
Cathy Hannon
know what their talking about. :-) But I'm learning... West Highland White
Terrier (WHWT) The only reason I know that one is my sister is thinking of
geting one. :-). I suppose I don't get credit, though since Laura and Cindy
posted first. :-) Oh well, I am getting educated too...
Cathy Hannon
Dianne Schoenberg
Hound, can spout acronyms and breed nicknames with the best of them,
and not rarely know things about a breed that the pet owners I run into
don't... but (*sigh*)... I have a confession to make:
I still can't tell a Siberian Husky from an Alaskan Malamute!
(she hangs her head in shame) I *thought* I'd figured it out--Mals
*are* supposed to be bigger, and they're the ones that have the plumy
tails over their backs, whereas Sibes' tails tend to hang low--and
the blue-eyed ones are always Sibes; the Mals' ears are more to the
sides of their heads and the Sibes' are more to the tops of their
heads--but I *still* mistook my new neighbor's Sibe for a Mal (the
tail--carried over the back in plume fashion--was what threw me, though
I knew that he was small to be a Mal...)
Oh, the embarrassment of it. Can you enlighten me, you northern breed
owners? Is there something else obvious that I should be looking for,
or am I just hopeless? :-)
Dianne
Cindy Tittle Moore
>(she hangs her head in shame) I *thought* I'd figured it out--Mals
>*are* supposed to be bigger, and they're the ones that have the plumy
>tails over their backs, whereas Sibes' tails tend to hang low--and
>the blue-eyed ones are always Sibes; the Mals' ears are more to the
>sides of their heads and the Sibes' are more to the tops of their
>heads--but I *still* mistook my new neighbor's Sibe for a Mal (the
>tail--carried over the back in plume fashion--was what threw me, though
>I knew that he was small to be a Mal...)
Dianne, you've switched the tails on those two. The Mal has a GSD
type tail and the sib will curl up over the back. Also, Mals are
longer bodied and Sibs are square-bodied. I believe the Mals come
in a greater variety of colors than the sibs do, and have different
markings, though I'd have to check with the breeders I know.
*However*, poorly bred specimens of either breed are impossible. The
above is really onely good for the well bred ones. What I get a lot
around here are Mal-Sib mixes (waugh! ;-).
IAZ...@mvs.oac.ucla.edu
>>(she hangs her head in shame) I *thought* I'd figured it out--Mals
>>*are* supposed to be bigger, and they're the ones that have the plumy
>>tails over their backs, whereas Sibes' tails tend to hang low--and
>>the blue-eyed ones are always Sibes; the Mals' ears are more to the
>>sides of their heads and the Sibes' are more to the tops of their
>>heads--but I *still* mistook my new neighbor's Sibe for a Mal (the
>>tail--carried over the back in plume fashion--was what threw me, though
>>I knew that he was small to be a Mal...)
>
>Dianne, you've switched the tails on those two. The Mal has a GSD
>type tail and the sib will curl up over the back. Also, Mals are
>longer bodied and Sibs are square-bodied. I believe the Mals come
>in a greater variety of colors than the sibs do, and have different
>markings, though I'd have to check with the breeders I know.
Umm, Cindy, Mals are supposed to have plumy tails, carried over
their backs, where Sibs are supposed to have fox-like tails. Mals
have a range of acceptable colors, but they will almost always be some
shade of gray. Sibs are the ones that come in that reddish color.
As to how to tell them apart--it can be hard--but heavier build,
smaller ears, brown eyes, plumy tail are usually Mals. I tend to
guess Sib, though, even with all these characteristics, since there
are more of them. :)
========================================================================
Elizabeth Adams iaz...@mvs.oac.ucla.edu
Real dogs don't bark. The basenji, the all-around hound.
Where Carter Fears to Quest--tri basenji girl
========================================================================
DJ
I dunno, Dianne. Sounds like you have it down to me! I would
certainly think you could be forgiven for misjudging based on
unusual traits!! :)
You are welcome to pet Alex, our Mal, anytime, however. He is
not adverse to being mistaken for a Sibe if it gets attention!
Cheers!
Dana (and Alex the Mal, and Scotty the GSD)
DJ
> type tail and the sib will curl up over the back. Also, Mals are
> longer bodied and Sibs are square-bodied. I believe the Mals come
> in a greater variety of colors than the sibs do, and have different
> markings, though I'd have to check with the breeders I know.
Cindy, are you sure? My Alex (6 month old Mal) has got a huge,
curled, plumed tail, while the Sibes I grew up with did not.
Also, I think it's the Sibes that have a greater variety of
colors - Mals come in varying shades of white to gray to black,
where I have seen Sibes in brown and a reddish/rust color.
I've never really made a study of all of this, so I may be
wrong, but these are my observations....
Dana (and Alex and Scotty)
Cindy Tittle Moore
OK, from the AKC standard:
(Alaskan Malamutes) "Tail-- Moderately set and following the line of
the spine at the start, well furred and carried over the back when not
working--not tightly curled to rest on back-- or short furred and
carried like a fox brush, a waving plume appearance instead."
The latter is what I was thinking of. It sounds like they don't mind
the tail laying to one side or another when curled over, unlike for
Sibes, below...
(Siberian Huskies) "Tail--The well furred tail of fox-brush shape is
set on just below the level of the topline, and is usually carried
over the back in a graceful sickle curve when the dog is at attention.
When carried up, the tail does not curl to either side of the body,
nor does it snap flat against the back. A trailing tail is normal for
the dog when in repose. Hair on the tail is of medium length and
approximately the same length on tip, sides and bottom, given the
appearance of a round brush. Faults -- A snapped or tightly curled
tail; highly plumed tail; tail set too low or too high."
I don't think I would try to tell the two apart by their tails! I'd
say the head was another difference: Sibs seem to have smaller ears and
a lighter head, whereas the Mals have a heavier head build and larger
ears and a more powerful muzzle.
Connie Cho
>
>
>say the head was another difference: Sibs seem to have smaller ears and
>a lighter head, whereas the Mals have a heavier head build and larger
>ears and a more powerful muzzle.
>
Sibes have the large ears set at the top of the head; Mals have smaller
ears set at an angle. The Sibes' ears are esp. *relatively* larger compared
to the head.
Mals overall should look massive, whereas even a large Sibe (60 lb for
a male) has a more streamlined look. The legs of the Mal are also heavily
furred lower down, whereas the Sibe's are cleaner.
There are a lot of bad tails among Sibes, but in general the lushly plumed
tail belongs to the Mal. The Sibe should have a tail with hairs that
stand up along the length of the tail (fox brush is a very good
description)
Both Mals and Sibes can be any color you want. Blacks are by far the
most common for Mals, whereas red Sibes are very popular in the show
ring (not by design; just happens) I haven't seen a red Mal, but I understand
they do happen.
Having said the above, I have to admit that I got confused at the show
last week! :) You really can't mistake them if you have one of each side
by side, but it truly is difficult at a glance. What I look for is eye
color, ear size and set, size, and tail, more or less in that order. I
think it is a little easier here in Canada, though, because the Sibe
doesn't have the thick undercoat that has been bred for in a lot of
US lines, and a lot of the show dogs here have racing stock bred in.
My Katka, for example, although from a show kennel, looks almost
sighthound in build; she has a very short coat and long slender legs.
Scooter, her littermate, and the other 4 in the litter are all built
on more sturdy show lines, with heavier coats, but they still have
a streamlined look to them. Mals, when sitting. almost have a rounded
puffy look to them (boy, it's hard to describe the look!)
And of course, you can really tell the difference when a team of 4
Sibes pulls up beside a team of 4 Mals ! :)
Connie Cho
>sides of their heads and the Sibes' are more to the tops of their
>heads--but I *still* mistook my new neighbor's Sibe for a Mal (the
>tail--carried over the back in plume fashion--was what threw me, though
>I knew that he was small to be a Mal...)
>
There are a lot of bad tails among Sibes, even the show lines.
The curling tail (which rests to one side) seems to be a *very*
strong trait; I know one lovely Sibe (such a wonderful dog, who
sings frequently to you when you walk by) whose one bad fault is such
a tail (otherwise an excellent specimen of the breed) whose offspring
all have identical tails to him (not their mom, who has a nice brush)
The tail curves upwards in a sickle or half moon shape when the dog
is at attention or excited. Katka carries hers very much as a cat does
when it is on the strut: almost straight up!
It is so cute to watch the tip bobbing up and down.
Oh, yes, according to the standard it seems that piebald Mals are
not desirable, whereas piebald Sibes are fine.
DJ
>
> (Alaskan Malamutes)
> (Siberian Huskies)
<del>
> I don't think I would try to tell the two apart by their tails! I'd
> say the head was another difference: Sibs seem to have smaller ears and
> a lighter head, whereas the Mals have a heavier head build and larger
> ears and a more powerful muzzle.
>
> --Cindy
>
> --
Wow - going by those standards - me neither! Thanks for the
info.
Dana
Lynne Price
can be as difficult as recognizing different individuals of one breed. If
you have several dogs of the same color and breed have you ever been asked
how you can tell them apart? If not, have you ever been tempted to ask
someone else the question?
I was trying to take a nap one Sunday afternoon several years ago, when
my daugher shook me awake, "Mom, Mom, there's a tricolor bitch in the
garage and it's not ours." After she convinced me that this was not a
poor attempt at humour, I got up and discovered two undersized,
out-of-coat, prick-eared rough collies with very similar markings,
except that where one had black polka dots on her front toes the other
had sable ones. I also learned shortly that the visitor's bark was at
least an octave lower than our own dog's piercing shriek. They were similar
enough that with my attention on a phone call I was making, I thought I
was petting one though it was actually the other.
A neighborhood child had brought the dog to my husband who was working in
the garage and said, "Is this your dog?" My husband said, "yes, thank you,"
and the child (who we didn't know) disappeared. My husband then looked at
the dog, asked, "How did you get out?" and then "wait a second". He called
into the house for our daughter (who is the actual owner and trainer of
our dog) and asked, "Do you recognize this one?" She said, "Oh, Dad, I'm
sorry she's bothering you", did a double take and went to wake me up.
Two years later, I was walking my much larger, heavily-coated blue male,
when a girl came up to me and said "I found your dog once."
My point is that the difference between a black dog and a gray one might
be obvious to the owner, but the color is not necessarily important to
a more casual observer. Furthermore, there are dogs that appear very
similar even to people who pay a lot of attention.
(If you're wondering, we did find the owner of the other dog, and got her
safely home.)
Lynne Price
1. When we lived in an apartment with a tricolor Sheltie, the complex
manager once asked if our dog had gotten out. A few hours later I saw
the loose animal she meant; it was a short-haired black and white dog
(no tan) about 3 times larger than ours. The manager's pretty
reasonable recognition strategy was based on the species and the main
color.
2. I'm used to people not recognizing the breed of blue and tri collies,
but someone wasn't quite sure that my 5-month old sable puppy was really
a collie. There was something, she wasn't sure what, that didn't look like what
she expected. I finally took out some pictures of my blue and tri, "Is
this what you mean?"
"Yes," she said, "what do you call those kinds of collies?"
"Adults," I responded.
3. My sister has a friend who has a sable smooth. When she took him for
walks, very few people recognized the breed (or believed her explanations).
A year or two later she got a sable rough. Walking the two of them together,
people were much more willing to accept that the smooth was indeed a collie.
S. Mudgett aka little gator
>
>My point is that the difference between a black dog and a gray one might
>be obvious to the owner, but the color is not necessarily important to
>a more casual observer. Furthermore, there are dogs that appear very
>similar even to people who pay a lot of attention.
>
when i had brindle the people up the street had smokey. brindle
was a female plott hound(short coat, droopy hound ears, general coonhound look).
she was brown and orange striped, and about 60 lbs.
smokey was a male mix who looked mostly german shepherd. he had tall gsd type
ears, a coat like a gsd only bushier, weighed about 90 lbs, and was
yellow and black striped.
visitors to the house often commented on how they looked exactly alike.
poor brindle hated smokey, who was allowed to run loose and liked
to come to our house and tease brindle through the fence. one time she
got loose (a guest left the gate open)and chased him up the street. she
didn't catch him, nor did she appear to be trying to, just chasing him away.
for years after that smokey's family would go into a panic when i walked
brindle. she was never allowed offlead and always behaved herself, yet they'd
call their children in when we went by. they didn't call smokey in though.
--
-- little gator aka s. mudgett email: s...@harvee.billerica.ma.us
-- friend of a gator is a friend of mine
Lisa K. Baird
: In article <tittleCp...@netcom.com>, tit...@netcom.com (Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:
:
: > Dianne, you've switched the tails on those two. The Mal has a GSD
: > type tail and the sib will curl up over the back. Also, Mals are
: > longer bodied and Sibs are square-bodied. I believe the Mals come
: > in a greater variety of colors than the sibs do, and have different
: > markings, though I'd have to check with the breeders I know.
: Cindy, are you sure? My Alex (6 month old Mal) has got a huge,
: curled, plumed tail, while the Sibes I grew up with did not.
: Also, I think it's the Sibes that have a greater variety of
: colors - Mals come in varying shades of white to gray to black,
: where I have seen Sibes in brown and a reddish/rust color.
per the AKC standards:
Alaskan Malamute - "Tail - Moderately set and following the line fo the
spine at the start,well furred and carried over the back when not
working - not tightly curled to rest on back - or short furred and
carried like a fox brush, a waving plume appearance instead.
Eyes- Brown... dark eyes prefered. Blue eyes are a disqualifying fault."
Color and Markings - ...usual colors range from light gray through the
intermediate shadings to black, always with white on underbodies,parts of
legs, feet, and part of mask markings. Markings should be caplike and/or
masklike on face. A white blaze on forehead and/or collar or spot on nape
is attractive and acceptable, but broken color extending over the body in
spots or uneven splashings is undesirable. One should distinguish between
mantled dogs and splash-coated dogs. The only solid color allowable is
the all white. "
Siberian Husky - "Tail - The well furred tail of fox brush shape is set
on just below the level fo the topline, and is usually carried over the
back in a graceful sickle curve when the dog is at attention. When
carried up, the tail does not curl to either side of the body, nor does
it snap flat against the back. A trailing tail is normal for the dog when
in repose.... Faults- A snapped or tightly curled tail; a highly pplumed
tail...
Eyes - ... Eyes may be brown or blue in color; one of each or
parti-colored are acceptable....
Color- All colors from black to pure white are allowed. A variety of
markings on the head is common,including many striking pattrens not found
in other breeds."
The pictures of each breed in my edition (1992) of _The Complete Dog Book_
shows a Mal with tail curled over and to the side; the Sibe with a slight
curve straight over the back.
Lisa and the k-9 crew
Cindy Tittle Moore
>Now Labs, I can see why no one can tell *them* apart, unless of course
>one is white and the other is red or blue.....
> -- Vicki (dodging e-tomatoes!!! :-) :-) )
PHPHPHPHT!!!
--Cindy, vigoriously tossing e-tomatoes!
--
Cindy Tittle Moore tit...@netcom.com PO Box 4188, Irvine, CA 92716
--the other half of Mary Healy's brain!
Victoria Neff
>when i had brindle the people up the street had smokey. brindle
>was a female plott hound(short coat, droopy hound ears, general coonhound look).
>she was brown and orange striped, and about 60 lbs.
>
>smokey was a male mix who looked mostly german shepherd. he had tall gsd type
>ears, a coat like a gsd only bushier, weighed about 90 lbs, and was
>yellow and black striped.
>
>visitors to the house often commented on how they looked exactly alike.
One person at my house asked me if I could tell my two red&white Corgis
apart. !! I just politely said "yes", and didn't point out that they
could hardly look more different, given that they were both r&w Corgis.
One is way bigger than the other, for one thing, and their coats are very
different....