>You seem to be saying that dog breeders should be held responsible >for a dog's future simply because they chose to "create" that dog. >But doesn't the responsibility for a companion animal lie principally >with the dog's owner? When the puppies are born, the owner is most
Of COURSE the responsibility should lie with the dog's owner (IMHO, of course). I would imagine that most of us here on R.p.d. have a commitment and a sincere feeling of responsibility for our pets and we do our utmost to provide them with excellent care. Yes? I consider my dogs and cat to be only my responsibility, and if for some awful reason the time comes when I can't provide properly for them, it's my responsibility to either find GOOD homes for them, or to put them humanely to death.
BUT - there are many people out there who aren't as committed to their animals as we are. The numbers of pets in the animals shelters attest to that, don't they? What then? These animals become the responsibility of the taxpayer. If I am not contributing to the overpopulation of dogs and cats, why should it be my responsibility to provide for those animals (except by choice, through contributions to whatever shelter/organization I like)? Yes, the former owner should have first responsibility, but after the owner, I do believe that the person who "created" the pet in the first place should also bear some responsibility BEFORE that animal becomes the responsibility of someone (the taxpayer) who had nothing to do with the existence of the pet.
In addition, there is a movement in at least Northern California to adopt breeding bans on ALL animals unless breeders pay rather hefty yearly breeding fees. The movement is a sincere attempt by some animal welfare people to limit the number of pets that are winding up in shelters and, ultimately, being put to death. If (again IMHO) breeders were taking that "lifelong responsibility" for their animals and making sure those animals were NOT ending up at shelters, the people who are attempting to create the breeding bans might look somewhat more kindly on the "good" or "responsible" breeders stop making it so tough for those breeders to continue breeding quality dogs and cats.
April Quist with border collies Shiloh, UD and Levi (still in training...)
One potential problem is that there are (at least) two very different groups of people being included in that single word "breeder." First, we have the really responsible breeders of purebred dogs, who make buyers sign contracts that any dog the owner cannot keep goes FIRST back to the breeder; and there is a hefty financial penalty for ever letting the dog get into the not-so-loving hands of a pet shop. Then, there is the much larger group of owners of female dogs (some purebred, others not) who just let their dogs mate at will. We may not consider these "breeders," but they are -- and that group will NEVER assume any responsibility for the dogs they create and manage to sell or give away, in all likelihood. The first group would love to have their pups tagged, and to be called if the dogs are abandoned; they would undoubtedly prefer to take the dogs back rather than see them badly placed or (far worse) sent to a lab for experimenta- tion. But the second group would never tag pups anyway, when they were born, so it would be impossible to identify these people. Is the idea that no dog could be licensed in any town or city unless it wore an electronic implant? How can this be enforced? I think breeders (the good kind) already share responsibility for their pups, so owners should be held accountable first, for the dogs they acquire and then may have to give up. (I could NEVER comprehend the mental- ity -- if you can call it that -- of people who just turn a dog out of the car on a highway or wherever, when they are "through" with it. Are these humans?)
If we can increase people's responsibility (ANY people), then good. (If I were a breeder -- Type One, I trust -- I'd be delighted to be notified that one of my "kids" was abandoned, so I could go get it!) _____________________________________________________________ | One advantage of a black Flat-Coated Retriever is that | | you can easily see the hairs while you're picking them | | out of the butter. | | -- Pet Partners Anne Cotton, and Flattie | | Cinderbin Neg's Molly Malone ("Molly") | |___________________________________________________________|
Hello, I'm fairly new to the r.p.d. and have a problem what, I'm sure, has been covered before.
There is a man in our neighborhood who lets his dog go the the bathroom all over the place (other people's yards, the middle of the sidewalk).
I am attempting to deal with him - he walks his dog on a long rope (20-30') so Rambo can and does do his business whereever. I caught the man last night as his dog was squatting in our yard and he tried to run away but I chased him and he stopped. I told him to clean it up - of course he didn't have the proper equipment so I got him a baggie. He picked up the pile with his bare hands *gross* and took it with him. During this time my SO came outisde and read him the riot act - it's against the law, etc. My neighbors all have the same problem. Somehow we'll have to file a complaint with the police, but the man seems unstable - I don't want him to harm me or my dog..... Sugestions?
ANYWAY - my real question is that I heard that dogs won't go if there are moth balls located in their favorite places to squat. Is that true? Also, I'm affraid moth balls to be toxic to other animals, grass, etc. My dog would not be allowed to go where I would place the moth balls, but there could be other innocent dogs in the yard.
What would you do?
Susan Platt, Owned by Sally, the Beautiful Bearded Collie
In a previous article, acot...@MtHolyoke.edu (Anne Cotton) says:
>One potential problem is that there are (at least) two very >different groups of people being included in that single word >"breeder." First, we have the really responsible breeders of >purebred dogs, who make buyers sign contracts that any dog the >owner cannot keep goes FIRST back to the breeder; and there is >a hefty financial penalty for ever letting the dog get into >the not-so-loving hands of a pet shop. Then, there is the much >larger group of owners of female dogs (some purebred, others not) >who just let their dogs mate at will. We may not consider these >"breeders," but they are -- and that group will NEVER assume any >responsibility for the dogs they create and manage to sell or >give away, in all likelihood.
I believe that the term that has sometimes been bandied about on this group for this class of slobbish breeder is "profiteer" as they are more interested in the moeny aspects than the dogs. Either by what they will make off of a litter of pups or the money that they refuse to spend on a litter of pups.
The first group would love to have
>their pups tagged, and to be called if the dogs are abandoned; >they would undoubtedly prefer to take the dogs back rather than >see them badly placed or (far worse) sent to a lab for experimenta- >tion. But the second group would never tag pups anyway, when they >were born, so it would be impossible to identify these people.
Atta girl, Anne! Another good call from the NE USA!
Is
>the idea that no dog could be licensed in any town or city unless >it wore an electronic implant? How can this be enforced? I think >breeders (the good kind) already share responsibility for their pups, >so owners should be held accountable first, for the dogs they acquire >and then may have to give up. (I could NEVER comprehend the mental- >ity -- if you can call it that -- of people who just turn a dog out >of the car on a highway or wherever, when they are "through" with it. >Are these humans?)
The only likeness is from the taxonomy of them as homo sapiens. (where's my dictionary? I think I got that $15 word right!) There is very little humane about them.
>If we can increase people's responsibility (ANY people), then good. >(If I were a breeder -- Type One, I trust -- I'd be delighted to be >notified that one of my "kids" was abandoned, so I could go get it!)
Another atta girl for you, Anne!
My own call is that there are two big points in this argument.
First:
The responsible people of this world will always be "stuck" with the burden of responsibility for the irresponsible people of this world. that's why we have car insurance, dog licenses, and prisons. I'd love to say it ain't so but it is. I'm still holding out some hope, however stupidly, that it won't always be that way.
Second:
Picking breeders for the lifelong responsibility of the animal is just another example of taking the cowardly response to the situation. Breeders are a small enough group to be targeted by this group of what I label misinformed extremists. Why don't they hitch up their blue jeans and take aim at the community where the greater share of the blame lies -- slob owners? Lazy? Stupid? Cowardly? Pick a word that suits your fancy but make sure that you recognize that breeders are no more responsible for what treatment is given to a pup they produce than the hospital is that allows the infant to go home with a family that ends up abusing the little tyke. There simply are no crystal balls that let you pick the perfect homes 100% of the time with dogs or kids.
Gail
-- Gail Brookhart, Cincinnati, Ohio = ag...@yfn.ysu.edu =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Toby the Airedale Terrier = My second-hand dogs are Casey the Bouvier des Flandres = FIRST-CLASS pets!
: One potential problem is that there are (at least) two very : different groups of people being included in that single word : "breeder." First, we have the really responsible breeders of : purebred dogs, who make buyers sign contracts that any dog the : owner cannot keep goes FIRST back to the breeder; and there is : a hefty financial penalty for ever letting the dog get into : the not-so-loving hands of a pet shop.
Please don't limit that group to purebreds. Any animal that leaves my household, that was bred here, bought or rescued and fostered leaves with those same conditions. This has included dogs, cats and horses.
I stand corrected. Of course the intelligent and responsible breeder of dogs need not be dealing with purebreds alone. However, I suspect that, especially in some breeds that have not become overpopular to the point of being puppy-milled, the majority of breeders are careful and responsible; and that the majority (but certainly not all!) of mixed-breed breeders tend to take life more casually. There are also (as I hinted) many shades of gray between the two extremes I described. _____________________________________________________________ | One advantage of a black Flat-Coated Retriever is that | | you can easily see the hairs while you're picking them | | out of the butter. | | -- Pet Partners Anne Cotton, and Flattie | | Cinderbin Neg's Molly Malone ("Molly") | |___________________________________________________________|
In article <1993Oct4.205719.11...@cs.brown.edu> s...@cs.brown.edu (Susan Platt) writes: >Subject: Moth Balls >From: s...@cs.brown.edu (Susan Platt) >Date: 4 Oct 93 20:57:19 GMT >Hello, I'm fairly new to the r.p.d. and have a problem what, I'm sure, >has been covered before. >There is a man in our neighborhood who lets his dog go the the bathroom >all over the place (other people's yards, the middle of the sidewalk). >I am attempting to deal with him - he walks his dog on a long rope (20-30') >so Rambo can and does do his business whereever. I caught the man last >night as his dog was squatting in our yard and he tried to run away but >I chased him and he stopped. I told him to clean it up - of course he >didn't have the proper equipment so I got him a baggie. > He picked up the pile with his bare hands *gross* and took >it with him. During this time my SO came outisde and read him the riot >act - it's against the law, etc. My neighbors all have the same problem. >Somehow we'll have to file a complaint with the police, but the man >seems unstable - I don't want him to harm me or my dog..... Sugestions? >ANYWAY - my real question is that I heard that dogs won't go if there are >moth balls located in their favorite places to squat. Is that true? >Also, I'm affraid moth balls to be toxic to other animals, grass, etc. >My dog would not be allowed to go where I would place the moth balls, >but there could be other innocent dogs in the yard. >What would you do? >Susan Platt, >Owned by Sally, the Beautiful Bearded Collie
Susan, I read somewhere that mothballs are poison to dogs (if they eat them) not if they smell them. I use mothballs in my flower garden in front of my house to keep my neighbor's two cats from using my garden to go potty. Cat poop stinks (like rotten fish). They apparently don't like the smell of mothballs and do their business elsewhere. However, I watch my dogs very closely when they are out front to make sure they keep away from the mothballs. After a while, they learned to stay away from the flower garden even after the mothballs have long since disappeared.
I would not use mothballs to discourage other people's dogs and they just might eat them. There is some stuff you can get at the garden supply stores that you can spray on your plants and bushes to repel dogs. It must be reapplied after you water as it washes off easily.
Besides, after that encounter with your husband, that man may walk his dog on someone else's street. (He was probably very embarrassed.)
While I'd like to comment on several things here, I've only time for one:
In article <9310041958.AA01...@ditto.techpubs> aqu...@ditto.Tymnet.COM (April Quist) writes:
= = Of COURSE the responsibility should lie with the dog's owner (IMHO, of = course). I would imagine that most of us here on R.p.d. have a commitment = and a sincere feeling of responsibility for our pets and we do our utmost = to provide them with excellent care. Yes? I consider my dogs and cat = to be only my responsibility, and if for some awful reason the time comes = when I can't provide properly for them, it's my responsibility to either = find GOOD homes for them, or to put them humanely to death. = = BUT - there are many people out there who aren't as committed to their = animals as we are. The numbers of pets in the animals shelters attest = to that, don't they? What then? These animals become the responsibility = of the taxpayer. If I am not contributing to the overpopulation of dogs = and cats, why should it be my responsibility to provide for those animals
Will passing the buck back to the breeder make these people more responsible? Or is making them accept responsibility for their own dog more likely to do so?
I, too, am a taxpayer and I also am expected to pay for *many* things that aren't my fault. The local dog pound is the *least* of my worries in that respect. I would much rather pay taxes to support the dog pound than to enforce the myriad do-nothing laws that politicians insist on passing to make it *appear* that they are "doing something about X" where X is the currently high-profile thing that they seem to think somehthing needs to be done about. The cost of operating the dog pound is peanuts compared with this money sink.
If anyone believes that the cost of operating a dog pound is a big part of the tax bill, wait until you pay to enforce a (shall we call it) breeder-responsibility law.
-- Best,
Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby "I'm the NRA!" c...@lanl.gov
In article <28qapm$...@news.ysu.edu> ag...@yfn.ysu.edu (Gail E. Brookhart) writes: = Picking breeders for the lifelong responsibility of the animal is = just another example of taking the cowardly response to the situation. = Breeders are a small enough group to be targeted by this group of = what I label misinformed extremists. Why don't they hitch up their = blue jeans and take aim at the community where the greater share of the = blame lies -- slob owners? Lazy? Stupid? Cowardly? Pick a word that = suits your fancy but make sure that you recognize that breeders are no = more responsible for what treatment is given to a pup they produce = than the hospital is that allows the infant to go home with a family that = ends up abusing the little tyke. There simply are no crystal balls = that let you pick the perfect homes 100% of the time with dogs or = kids.
***YES!***
Thank you, Gail!
-- Best,
Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby "I'm the NRA!" c...@lanl.gov
>>There is a man in our neighborhood who lets his dog go the the bathroom >>all over the place (other people's yards, the middle of the sidewalk). >Susan, I read somewhere that mothballs are poison to dogs (if they eat them) >not if they smell them.
You are correct
Mothballs have a product derived from distilling coal called NAPHTHALENE. It is the crystal format that is used in mothballs & is toxic to "ALL" when it is consumed. I use NAPHTHALENE FLAKES on my garden beds as it is a little less conspicuous than mothballs.
Moth balls are poisonous BOTH to eat or sniff; one is just much faster than the other. THe chimical can also be absorbed through the skin, so take care in handling it. And make sure that you don't have any children wandering through your flower garder and coming into contact with the stuff.
Is it an effective deterrent, or do some dogs eat it and get sick/die?
: I use mothballs in my flower garden in front of my : house to keep my neighbor's two cats from using my garden to go potty.
: There is some stuff you can get at the garden supply stores : that you can spray on your plants and bushes to repel dogs.
We have purchased two different kinds of dog/cat repellent to try and keep the neighborhood cats from pooping all over our church landscaping plus digging up the new plants I put in this year. Neither one seemed to have much effect. The mothball idea interests me. How many does it take to do the job? Is there any adverse effect on the flowers? Are your neighbor cats still healthy? In other words, is there a chance this solution will end up killing the cats and give us the potential for major ill will or a lawsuit?
I understand wanting to keep cats away, but please keep in mind that moth balls are very dangerous to humans and animals. I do not use them for anything and I probably never will.
Back on September 24th, I wrote about the death of my best friend Mugs. After posting my feelings, I was inundated with e-mail of condolences and support from _many_ wonderful people. It's too many to list, but Mugs and I want to thank you sincerely. You've helped me far more than you'll ever know, to accept our temporary physical separation, to be grateful for the time we had, and to realize even more fully the special nature of our love for each other.
Your concern, comments and suggestions were definitely appreciated, as well as the many beautiful poems and verse. As part of my tribute to Mugs, I am making a book, into which is going all of the snapshots we've taken of him, and comments on the photos, ranging from when we first got him to the week before he died. (Of course, I'm including the shot of Mugs in the tuxedo, when he was best dog in our wedding (no best man, just best dog!); of Mugs in the Santa Claus hat at Christmas; Mugs with his stuffed toys; and Mugs on the front porch in his mirrored sunglasses and his Rude Dog athletic t-shirt!)
Your e-mail and postings are going to be part of that book.
Last Thursday, I received his ashes back, in a beautiful gray granite box, shaped like the base of a statue. This weekend, I am having a brass plate made to affix to the top of the box, reading:
_____________________________________ | Mugs | | | | circa 1981 - September 23, 1993 | | | | Love is Honored | |____________________________________ |
I am writing Mugs into my will...When I die, I plan to have my body cremated as well; I have decided that Mugs will join me. My wife Vicki (if she's alive) or my friend Tom Cypher of Kenosha Wisconsin will take our combined ashes on the back of a Harley, and ride from Chicago to Lake Louise, northwest of Banff in Alberta, Canada. There, Mugs and I will take a helicopter ride above the mountains of Lake Louise Ski Area, to be spread to the winds. (So much for the Harley image, huh?)
I look forward to that day.
Again, thank you, everyone for caring. Your thoughts, prayers and wishes have provided immeasurable assistance in my grieving, and have helped me to focus on the future.
Will we get another dog? We're thinking about it; it will depend on how Lacey (Bearfoot Legend's Lacey) comes along. So far, she is coping well, except for the wimp (me) who plays tug of war with her! My winter project is to make a trailer for her, so that when we go riding on our Harleys, that she can join us. Of course she'll have goggles, a leather helmet, and the requisite leather jacket with "Biker Bitch" airbrushed on the back. She'll also have her own one-of-a-kind "Rest in Peace" patch for Mugs, just like the other bikers.
Life goes on, until one day, Mugs ...suddenly stops playing and looks up. The nose twitches , the ears are up, the eyes are staring, and he suddenly runs from the group. I have been seen, and when I and my special friend meet, I'll take him in my arms and embrace. My face will be kissed again and again and again, and I'll look once more into the eyes of my trusting friend.
Then, we'll cross the Rainbow Bridge together, never again to be separated. (thanks rginz...@eagle.wesleyan.edu)
My apologies on the <None> subject heading...I want to be sure that those who were so helpful get some feedback and followup. The identical post to <None> follows:
> Back on September 24th, I wrote about the death of my best friend Mugs. > After posting my feelings, I was inundated with e-mail of condolences and > support from _many_ wonderful people. It's too many to list, but Mugs and I > want to thank you sincerely. You've helped me far more than you'll ever know, > to accept our temporary physical separation, to be grateful for the time we > had, and to realize even more fully the special nature of our love for each > other.
> Your concern, comments and suggestions were definitely appreciated, as well as > the many beautiful poems and verse. As part of my tribute to Mugs, I am making > a book, into which is going all of the snapshots we've taken of him, and > comments on the photos, ranging from when we first got him to the week before > he died. (Of course, I'm including the shot of Mugs in the tuxedo, when he was > best dog in our wedding (no best man, just best dog!); of Mugs in the Santa > Claus hat at Christmas; Mugs with his stuffed toys; and Mugs on the front porch > in his mirrored sunglasses and his Rude Dog athletic t-shirt!)
> Your e-mail and postings are going to be part of that book.
> Last Thursday, I received his ashes back, in a beautiful gray granite box, > shaped like the base of a statue. This weekend, I am having a brass plate made > to affix to the top of the box, reading:
> _____________________________________ > | Mugs | > | | > | circa 1981 - September 23, 1993 | > | | > | Love is Honored | > |____________________________________ |
> I am writing Mugs into my will...When I die, I plan to have my body cremated as > well; I have decided that Mugs will join me. My wife Vicki (if she's alive) or > my friend Tom Cypher of Kenosha Wisconsin will take our combined ashes on the > back of a Harley, and ride from Chicago to Lake Louise, northwest of Banff in > Alberta, Canada. There, Mugs and I will take a helicopter ride above the > mountains of Lake Louise Ski Area, to be spread to the winds. (So much for the > Harley image, huh?)
> I look forward to that day.
> Again, thank you, everyone for caring. Your thoughts, prayers and wishes have > provided immeasurable assistance in my grieving, and have helped me to focus on > the future.
> Will we get another dog? We're thinking about it; it will depend on how Lacey > (Bearfoot Legend's Lacey) comes along. So far, she is coping well, except for > the wimp (me) who plays tug of war with her! My winter project is to make a > trailer for her, so that when we go riding on our Harleys, that she can join > us. Of course she'll have goggles, a leather helmet, and the requisite leather > jacket with "Biker Bitch" airbrushed on the back. She'll also have her own > one-of-a-kind "Rest in Peace" patch for Mugs, just like the other bikers.
> Life goes on, until one day, Mugs ...suddenly stops playing and looks up. The > nose twitches , the ears are up, the eyes are staring, and he suddenly runs > from the group. I have been seen, and when I and my special friend meet, I'll > take him in my arms and embrace. My face will be kissed again and again and > again, and I'll look once more into the eyes of my trusting friend.
> Then, we'll cross the Rainbow Bridge together, never again to be separated. > (thanks rginz...@eagle.wesleyan.edu)
