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AKC Breeder and Judge Supporting Bestiality

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C. Bond

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Jun 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/7/00
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"Ken M." <pobo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:393E0F68...@ix.netcom.com...
>
> Your registered member, Mr. Spink, was reported for conduct violations
> due to hosting a web site on an ISP (Internet Service Provider) that he
> owns which host a site (www.actaeon.org) that supports and advocates
> "bestiality".

1. I checked it out. There is no bestiality there.

2. It's a free country. What someone advocates is none of your, or my,
or anyone else's business.

3. The message was at the very least incredibly inappapropriate. It's
things
like this that (only fleetingly) make me thing the militias are right.

chris kelly

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Jun 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/7/00
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Ken,
I have a quick question... where is your evidence of bestiality?
It says that evidence follows. Where and what is it?

Chris

"Ken M." wrote:

> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Subject: AKC Breeder and Judge Supporting Bestiality
> Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 04:40:54 EDT
> From: PetRig...@aol.com
> To: in...@akc.org, postm...@akc.org, clubre...@akc.org,
> webm...@akc.org, e...@akc.org
>
> Dear AKC (Board of Directors, Officers and Other Staff)
>
> I am writing due to past complaints made to your investigative
> department
> (e...@akc.org) of an individual, Douglas Spink, who is an AKC registered
> breeder of Golden Retrievers and also a Judge for Trial and Field
> events.


>
> Your registered member, Mr. Spink, was reported for conduct violations
> due to hosting a web site on an ISP (Internet Service Provider) that he
> owns which host a site (www.actaeon.org) that supports and advocates

> "bestiality". This would be clearly conduct prejudice to the welfare of
> all breeds. Not only is bestiality illegal in 24 states, it is also
> "Animal Abuse" as defined by the HSUS, ASPCA, PETA and almost all other
> Animal Humane Associations in this and other countries.
>
> I have also recently heard that your organization has not yet taken any
> actions on this, which was reported at the beginning of this year after
> many hours of investigation by an associate of mine and myself. A
> report was made with further communication on this subject to an
> individual in your investigative department at (e...@akc.org). I have
> also understood that there might possibly be "no action" taken in this
> matter at all.
>
> Your continued association and affiliation by allowing this person to
> AKC
> register his bred dogs and allowing him to judge various events is "very
> degrading" and "unethical" to your organizations reputation and
> integrity,
> and also represents the lack of concern for the welfare of ALL the
> breeds
> your organization represents.
>
> I myself own and register purebreds with your organization. Due to the
> lack of urgency and action on this matter, I will no longer register
> through your organization and will do so through other organizations
> that will uphold their standards of conduct and uphold the welfare to
> the breeds they represent. I will also encourage others to do the same,
> due to this matter and lack of professional attention and action.
>
> Your organization should hold up to its integrity and not be supportive
> to
> such inhumane and abusive practices such as "bestiality". Your lack of
> action shows support of this immoral practice and indirectly associates
> you
> with it.
>
> Please look into this matter further and take appropriate action for the
> welfare of the breeds you represent and the reputation of your
> organization.
>
> Below are the results of the earlier investigation on this matter. You
> can
> also contact your investigator Eric at (e...@akc.org) for his
> investigative
> results, or my associate at (anim...@aol.com) or myself at
> (petrig...@aol.com) for further clarification in this matter.
>
> Thank You,
>
> Greg and Judy Myers
> (petrig...@aol.com)
>
> ************************************************************
>
> http://www.goldens.com/txt/photos.html
>
> Do a dns lookup on goldens.com:
>
> Registrant:
> Timberline Retrievers, LLC (GOLDENS-DOM)
> 15455 NW Greenbrier Pkwy, Suite 210
> Beaverton, OR 97006
> US
>
> Domain Name: GOLDENS.COM
>
> Administrative Contact:
> Spink, Douglas (DS1704) dom...@MERUS.COM
> 800-893-8894
> Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
> Wozniak, Neal J (NJW3) nwoz...@REED.EDU
> 503-596-5025 (FAX) 503-596-5024
> Billing Contact:
> Spink, Douglas (DS1704) dom...@MERUS.COM
> 800-893-8894
>
> Record last updated on 06-Jul-1999.
> Record created on 11-Jul-1996.
> Database last updated on 16-Jan-2000 18:28:39 EST.
>
> Domain servers in listed order:
>
> HAZY.MERUS.COM 206.163.82.15
> TRON.WEBANNEX.NET 206.163.82.7
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Now HERE is the registration for actaeon.org the bestiality site:
>
> Registrant:
> Timberline Farms LLC (ACTAEON6-DOM)
> 15455 NW Greenbrier Pkwy, Suite 210
> Beaverton, OR 97209
> US
>
> Domain Name: ACTAEON.ORG
>
> Administrative Contact:
> Spink, Douglas (DS1704) dom...@MERUS.COM
> 800-893-8894
> Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
> Wozniak, Neal J (NJW3) nwoz...@REED.EDU
> 503-596-5025 (FAX) 503-596-5024
> Billing Contact:
> Spink, Douglas (DS1704) dom...@MERUS.COM
> 800-893-8894
>
> Record last updated on 13-Sep-1999.
> Record created on 13-Sep-1999.
> Database last updated on 16-Jan-2000 18:28:39 EST.
>
> Domain servers in listed order:
>
> HAZY.MERUS.COM 206.163.82.15
> TRON.WEBANNEX.NET 206.163.82.7
> ============================================
>
> Reposted with permission. (ken)
>
> Any comments?


cate

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Jun 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/7/00
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"chris kelly" <cke...@imsi.com> wrote in message
news:393E6924...@imsi.com...

> Ken,
> I have a quick question... where is your evidence of bestiality?
> It says that evidence follows. Where and what is it?
>
> Chris

It's on the site. Click the giant 'click here' link for an explanation of
why his site was yanked last year after complaints and how he came by new
server space and an anonymous email address donated by an org who'll protect
his anonymity. From 5th paragraph on
http://www.actaeon.org/whathappened.html:

"Now, before I continue, I feel a little explanation is in order here.
Because I live out in the sticks, there are only a
few ISPs that are local calls for me, and they're all so small that
they'd point right to my home town, which is a
bad thing if you want to keep secret the fact that you have sex with
animals."

I'm pretty sure that saying one has sex with animals qualifies as
bestiality.

Cate

chris kelly

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Jun 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/7/00
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Oh yeah... and it looks like he makes money from selling movies of it.
Chris

cate

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Jun 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/7/00
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"chris kelly" <cke...@imsi.com> wrote in message
news:393E7609...@imsi.com...

> Oh yeah... and it looks like he makes money from selling movies of it.
> Chris

Actually, regardless of whether he's telling the truth about what's in the
videos, he says they're not films of bestiality but of animals having sex
with each other. (Then he goes on to say how he ships them 'discreetly' and
how to get around paying customs for international orders.)

Cate

chris kelly

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Jun 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/7/00
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And these people get off on seeing two dogs humping?
I guess it takes all kinds... and some are a little more
'different' than others.

Chris

cate

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Jun 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/7/00
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"chris kelly" <cke...@imsi.com> wrote in message
news:393E8370...@imsi.com...

> And these people get off on seeing two dogs humping?

Or birds, goats, emus, zebras, what have you.

> I guess it takes all kinds... and some are a little more
> 'different' than others.
>
> Chris

LOL, yes.

Cate


chris kelly

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Jun 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/7/00
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Beth,
We are past that already... he even sell home movies of it.

Chris

Beth wrote:

> Right on the home page it says the site is "The primary subject
> of this web site is zoophilia: deeply emotional and (usually)
> sexual relations between humans and animals." I think thats
> pretty clear evidence of beastiality.
>
> In article <393E6924...@imsi.com>, chris kelly


> <cke...@imsi.com> wrote:
> >Ken,
> >I have a quick question... where is your evidence of bestiality?
> >It says that evidence follows. Where and what is it?
> >
> >Chris
> >

> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!


Beth

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Jun 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/7/00
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Elizabeth Naime

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Jun 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/7/00
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Subject: Re: AKC Breeder and Judge Supporting Bestiality
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior,rec.pets.dogs.breeds,rec.pets.dogs.misc
Followup-To: rec.pets.dogs.behavior,rec.pets.dogs.breeds,rec.pets.dogs.misc
References: <393E0F68...@ix.netcom.com>
Distribution:

Ken M. (pobo...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:

> any comments?

Well, it's a shame when the content complained of is so much better
written than the letter of complaint. When I read a sloppy complaint
letter, I wonder how seriously the authors are really taking this. That's
in reference to a formal letter like this purports to be; personal
correspondence, email and informal posts to mailing lists, guestbooks and
newsgroups are expected to be informal.

Regarding content? Though this isn't my cup of tea, I went and looked at
the web site. The author does identify himself as a zoophile and says
that the site is about bestiality. The rest of the actual site content
does not involve humans having sex with animals, so however odd it may
seem to you or me, I don't think it's "bestiality".

The author wisely refrains from any specifics about his own conduct
(which, if there is actual conduct and not just speech, remains legal in
26 states). Barring any evidence of actual conduct, I don't see a conduct
violation. Barring any evidence of conduct with dogs, I don't know how
relevant any of it is to the AKC (of which he is not a member, but never
mind, that and other AKC misstatements belongs under the "not well
written" complaint above).

Elizabeth


MaryBeth

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Jun 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/7/00
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"chris kelly" <cke...@imsi.com> wrote in message
news:393E8370...@imsi.com...
> And these people get off on seeing two dogs humping?

Shoot, c'mon over to my house daily. My Ceilidh humps Zack and vice
versa.
Wonner if I could tape it, how much wouldja think I'd make?

MB <G>

dogsnus

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Jun 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/7/00
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Dunno.
I watched Mojo hump Luke's head on Monday.
On Tuesday, Luke cleaned Mojo's clock!
(Saw it, right off)-> (Jeremiah Johnson) sp?
No blood or anything, but Mojo was put back_ in his place, once again.
BG!
Terri

vagabo...@worldnet.att.net

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Jun 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/8/00
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Yep, bestiality could qualify as "animals" having sex with each other. Just
that one's defined literally and one figuratively.
Paula

cate wrote:

> "chris kelly" <cke...@imsi.com> wrote in message

Lynn Kosmakos

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Jun 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/8/00
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Beth wrote:
>
> Right on the home page it says the site is "The primary subject
> of this web site is zoophilia: deeply emotional and (usually)
> sexual relations between humans and animals." I think thats
> pretty clear evidence of beastiality.

Hang on a minute. These are very serious charges, but be very
careful about what those charges are. All that is purported is
that the person charged owns a domain that hosts a web site with
zoophilia content. There are many factors not detailed in the
message that was posted and it is too early to assume that the
couple named practice bestiality. In fact, they have stated that
do not.

As it happens, the person who originated these charges (not Ken, btw)
has personal knowledge of the person charged. These reports have
been made to the AKC and the breed club involved and are under
consideration by those organizations. I'm certainly willing to
wait until their investigations are completed before rushing to
judgement, and think others would be wise to do so as well.

Lynn K.

cate

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Jun 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/8/00
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"Lynn Kosmakos" <lkos...@home.com> wrote in message
news:393F290D...@home.com...

>
I'm certainly willing to
> wait until their investigations are completed before rushing to
> judgement, and think others would be wise to do so as well.

I have no vested interest in this; I think I've contributed to
misunderstanding and just want to clarify and then I'll back out: the web
site very clearly lays out that the site's owner has sex with animals (on
http://www.actaeon.org/whathappened.html). That page explains why the site's
owner disappeared from the net when his email and web site were yanked for
having said material. It goes on to explain how finding anonymous email
identities were difficult, but he had to do it, as, in his words, he admits
he has sex with animals and doesn't want to be found:

"Because I live out in the sticks, there are only a few ISPs that are local
calls for me, and they're all so small that they'd point right to my home
town, which is a bad thing if you want to keep secret the fact that you have
sex with animals."

Cate

Jerry Howe

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Jun 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/8/00
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Hello lyinglynn,

For the record, you are a proven liar and dog abuser...

"Lynn Kosmakos" <lkos...@home.com> wrote in message
news:393F290D...@home.com...

>> Beth wrote:
> > Right on the home page it says the site is "The primary subject
> > of this web site is zoophilia: deeply emotional and (usually)
> > sexual relations between humans and animals." I think thats
> > pretty clear evidence of beastiality.

I don't think you can tell that withou SEEING what's inside. Did you
have a LOOK? Do you KNOW what you're talking about?

It would be an awful thing to WRONGFULLY accuse anyone of doing
something DEMENTED like that or hurting animals, WOULDN'T YOU AGREE?

> Hang on a minute. These are very serious charges,

Yes, just like lying and dog abuse... HOWE about that?

> but be very careful about what those charges are.

That's right. If those people are innocent, THEY might turn the
tables on you, and have your butt in front of a judge finding out
HOWE MUCH you're going to PAY THEM, for the damage you've done
them...

Innocent people have a right to be unmolested by gossip and false
accusations and ludicrous innuendo constituting slander and libel...

You could end up losing EVERYTHING, IF DAMAGES WERE PROVEN... A word
to the WISE is sufficient...

> All that is purported is that the person charged owns a domain that
> hosts a web site with zoophilia content.

Not a likely candidate to start a slander or libel suit, wouldn't you
AGREE? Unless it is not a pornographic site, then it might be
something EDUCATIONAL, and have high moral and ethical standards.

> There are many factors not detailed in the message that was
> posted and it is too early to assume that the couple named
> practice bestiality.

But, having business to do with a beastiality site is compelling
evidence that they are not of the highest moral or ethical
character... an unlikely litigant in a slander or libel suite,
woulndn't you agree, lyinglynn?

> In fact, they have stated that do not.

NO KIDDING??? What did you EXPECT? We're talking about animal
abusers... You don't expect them to be HONEST, DECENT, MORAL, ETHICAL
people of unquestionable principles, do you? Just look at HOWE FAST
you bums DENY MY accusations, EVEN THOUGH it is in your own writing,
in blackman and white???

WE EXPECT ANIMAL ABUSERS TO LIE WHEN CAUGHT...

Want PROOF?

> As it happens, the person who originated these charges (not Ken,
> btw) has personal knowledge of the person charged. These
> reports have been made to the AKC and the breed club involved
> and are under consideration by those organizations.

Are there no criminal charges available? If it's not against the law
where they come from, then maybe there's a different standard that
they've got to be held accountable to???

Wouldn't it be appropriate to let the police and breed club and akc
investigate the charges, and THEN carry on with this vicious attack
against them, if the charges are substantiated?

> I'm certainly willing to wait until their investigations are
completed
> before rushing to judgement, and think others would be wise to do
> so as well.

Right. We wouldn't want to jeopardize ouselves by SLANDERING innocent
people, would we?

> Lynn K.

Unless there's adequate PROOF, then go right ahead and let EVERYBODY
know what's up, just like I've done here with you and your punk pals,
our Gang Of Thugs.

"Thus we should beware of clinging to vulgar opinions, and
judge things by reason's way, not by popular say." Montaigne

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Salvor Hardin

"If you cannot convince them, confuse them." H.S. Truman.

;~) DRAINING THE SWAMP, AND RELOCATING THE GATORS... J>>>

"CUSTOM WILL RECONCILE PEOPLE TO ANY ATROCITY." G.B. Shaw.

"I know that most men, including those at ease with problems
of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the
simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to
admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in
explaining to colleagues, proudly taught to others, and which
they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their
lives."
Leo Tolstoy

Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more
complaints to my personal email than any other controversial
post I have made to date, bar none?:

caveat
If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would
rather not have to do, then you shouldn't be doing them. If you
have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke
him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold,
hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are
appropriate, that the dog won't think of you as the punisher,
or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can't train your
dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe.

Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Wits' End Dog Training
Witse...@aol.com
http://www.doggydoright.com
Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed.
-Francis Bacon-

There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem,
bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after. Who
ever can't hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all.
-Nietzsche-

The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned
qualities.

The Wits' End Dog Training Method challenges the learning
centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged,
develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter.

The Wits' End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split
seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless
hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding.
-Jerry Howe-

Chris Kelly

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Jun 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/8/00
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Yes... we know this.


""Twzl, Sligo and Roy Happy Together"" <alg...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:8hp1tq$ni8$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> In <ynM%4.9707$mD1.1...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> "cate"


<crob...@twcny.roadrunner.com> writes:
>
> >I have no vested interest in this; I think I've contributed to
> >misunderstanding and just want to clarify and then I'll back out: the web
> >site very clearly lays out that the site's owner has sex with animals (on
> >http://www.actaeon.org/whathappened.html). That page explains why the
site's
>
>

> the site owner is not the person who hosts the site. Two different
> people. The person accused of having sex with animals is not the same
> person as the person who owns a server that is hosting the site.
>
>
> Ann, twzl, Sligo and ROy
> --
> ==========================================================================
> Whenever A annoys or injures B on the pretense of saving or improving X, A
> is a scoundrel. - H. L. Mencken

Twzl, Sligo and Roy Happy Together

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Jun 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/8/00
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Twzl, Sligo and Roy Happy Together

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Jun 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/8/00
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In <jeT%4.86$mY3.9...@dca1-nnrp1.news.digex.net> "Chris Kelly" <cke...@imsi.com> writes:


>Yes... we know this.

Well, ***YOU*** knowing it doesn't translate into we knowing it.

Ann, Twzl, Sligo and Roy


>""Twzl, Sligo and Roy Happy Together"" <alg...@panix.com> wrote in message
>news:8hp1tq$ni8$1...@panix2.panix.com...

cate

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Jun 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/9/00
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""Twzl, Sligo and Roy Happy Together"" <alg...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:8hp50p$3rv$1...@panix2.panix.com...

> In <jeT%4.86$mY3.9...@dca1-nnrp1.news.digex.net> "Chris Kelly"
<cke...@imsi.com> writes:
>
>
> >Yes... we know this.
>
> Well, ***YOU*** knowing it doesn't translate into we knowing it.

I know it too. When I say 'site owner,' I mean the person who's in charge of
the content of the site, authored the material, and posts in the first
person that he has sex with animals.

Cate

Lynn Kosmakos

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Jun 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/9/00
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cate wrote:
>
> I know it too. When I say 'site owner,' I mean the person who's in charge of
> the content of the site, authored the material, and posts in the first
> person that he has sex with animals.

Please note that the correspondence posted here does not
accuse the people who were named of being the 'site owner'.

Lynn K.

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