First off, this is not an attempt to bait a flame war... if I wanted
that, I would have added alt.tasteless to the newsgroup line.  This is
a plea to dog owners to be responsible pet owners and not demand that
other people deal with your dog's crap.

Now then, let me introduce myself.  I am a bicycle commuter who uses one
of the regional multi-use trails in my area for six of the thirty miles
of my daily commute.  Besides cyclists, other users of these shared trails
include joggers, skaters, walkers... and yes, dog walkers.  

  Before someone goes of on a tangent citing that there are cyclists and
  skaters who use the trail irresponsibly, and thus I as a cyclist have no
  right to complain about dog owners, let me inform you that I try my best
  to be responsible in my usage of the trail, and I am not one of those
  speeding cyclists who doesn't call out before passing you from the rear.
  Take up your complaints about those cyclists and skaters, with those
  cyclists and skaters.  You have no complaint with me on that score.

My complaint isn't with all dog owners, for there are some (I wish I
could say many, but I just don't see that in my experience) who fulfill
their responsibilities WRT my gripe.  My complaint is with those dog
owners who take their dog for a walk on the trail and don't...

        - Use a leash?  

Nope.  Actually, I have seem more bicycle hazard dogs on a leash, than off
a leash...  The ones off the leash seem to have been trained to get out of
the way.

        - Hmmm, Then what?

Left Behind Dog Poop!  Both on the paved trail, and off the paved trail
by the wayside.  

In the case of poop ON the paved trail, in cases where it is unavoidable
to miss, I end up with it splattered on my bike and possibly on me, and I
have to live with that stench the rest of the way home...  not to mention
hose off my bike (and maybe myself) before I bring it into my apartment
for the night.

In the case of poop on the side of the trail...  well, first off, I feel
sorry for the joggers who like to jog on the dirt path rather than the
hard paved surface...  but even if the poop isn't on either of the paths,
when the heat of summer comes upon us, that crap is going to stink until
the winter rains come back.  At the end of the '97 summer, until we started
getting rain, about 75% of the six mile trail on my route stunk like
dog crap.

I've had enough, and I've started an In-Your-Face campaign right back at
the irresponsible dog owners.  For the three weeks, as soon as I hit the
trail section of my commute, I stop and attach one of two velcro equiped
signs to the back of my bike.

                "Please, clean up after your dog."
        Or
                "Please, bus your dog's waste."

At the bottom of the sign I also have a pointer to my In-Your-Face WWW page.

                "Read Contra Costa Whines on the web
                    AltaVista search: cocowhine"

It's on that web page, where another phase of the battle will be taking
place.  I'm already being In-Your-Face with comments to the dog owners
when I come across one not intent upon picking up the crap.

        - Two weeks ago I passed a woman with a dog on the other end
          of the leash.  The dog was squating off in the bushes and the
          woman was biding her time.  My In-Your-Face comment as I passed
          by was "That's going to stink really BAD soon."

        - Two days ago, near the end of my commute, I'c coming up a hill
          and I notice a bunch of kids and dogs doing the 21211[*] shuffle
          All I noticed at the moment was that there was a dog directly in
          the path I wanted to take.  (with leashes, kids and dogs strung
          about over the rest of the path.)  Now this roadblock was actually
          moving forward...  that is until one kid mentioned to the other to
          "Look at what your dog is doing".  It was then that I noticed that
          the dog was squating.  Poor dog...  While being drug along, it had to
          do it's business On-The-Go.  This was apparently his second squat,
          indicated by a second pile three feet beyond the first.

          I slowed to a near stop, and asked the girl "You are going to
          clean that up, aren't you?" and received what I assume was a
          confused and bewildered look.  I quickly added "Do you need a
          bag for it?"...  [I carry a supply of gallon sized plastic bags
          and trail brochures which indicate locations of doggie poop mitts
          as part of my In-Your-Face campaign.]  She replied that she had
          one... as she made a reaching motion into her pocket... at that point
          I continued on my way...  Last night, on my way home in the dark,
          it does appear that someone removed the piles.  I can only hope
          that it was the child being a responsible pet owner.

        [*]  = 21211  California Vehicle Code relating to making a
               Class I bikeway, ie a multi-use trail, unpassable by a cyclist.

So those are two examples of my trailside conduct.  Once I have had the
sign in place for a month, and word gets around, I will become even more
aggressive with dog owners I find not cleaning up the crap.  I will not
be approching dog owners not caught in the act, unless they make a comment
about my sign first.  Special dog owners...  ones that feel they don't need
to clean it up, will have a special place on my WWW page for their picture.

I probably should start thanking those dog owners which I see complying
with the park district rules as well.  A couple of weeks ago I spotted an
attempted clean-up...  I don't know what the story was...  all I saw was
a pile of crap on the trail and a partialy used poop-mitt next to it...
No idea why the person didn't complete the process.  A little later on
that same trip, I passed a woman walking a dog and swinging a plastic
bag in her other hand.  It was only as I passed that I noticed that the
contents were brown.

Earlier this week I passed a family and their dogs taking a walk.  As I
was approaching, I noticed what a ppeared to be a "bow" on the larger
dog.  As I passed I realized that this "bow" was in reality several
large gallon sized plastic bags rolled up and stuck under the dog's collar,
creating a fan-out look.

Over the last few weeks I've had several joggers and walkers call out
to me as I passed "Thanks for the sign."

You might not be a dog owner in my area, but if you aren't cleaning up
after your dog, you can be sure there are other trail users in your area
just as upset at you as I am over the ones in my area.  

Please clean up after your dog when in public spaces.

        http://www.io.com/~tweek/cocowhine/poop.html

--
tw...@netcom.com    tw...@io.com     |  "Well, you and I would differ on
DoD #MCMLX       tw...@ccnet.com     |   what's ignorance and educated."
sig...@tweekco.ness.com              |         - Senator Ernest Hollings

Good grief, just what this world needs, Poop Police.

Snipped the details of being a poop policeman...

Buddy, I'm responsible about my dogs.  If you said something to me, you'ld
likely have your mode of transport jammed squarely, sideways, just where the
sun don't shine.  Eventually you'll meet someone like me whose fed up with
prissy little anal-retentive neat freaks who take it upon themselves to go
on poop patrol.

R R M Tweek wrote in message ...

Poop Police?  Hardly.  I just don't want to be splattered with
your dog's crap when I am using the shared trail.  A "police" would
be looking out for others.  I'm looking out for myself.

--
tw...@netcom.com    tw...@io.com     |  "Well, you and I would differ on
DoD #MCMLX       tw...@ccnet.com     |   what's ignorance and educated."
sig...@tweekco.ness.com              |         - Senator Ernest Hollings

If you aren't cleaning up your dog's shit when it craps on the trail, then
you are not a responsible pet owner.

Your right to walk your dog on the trail DOES NOT mean that I have to
get splattered with your dog's shit.  If you feel it does, then you
should have no problem with me throwing the shit in your face as I pass.

Neat freak?  Lets just say I don't like to get home covered in shit.

--
tw...@netcom.com    tw...@io.com     |  "Well, you and I would differ on
DoD #MCMLX       tw...@ccnet.com     |   what's ignorance and educated."
sig...@tweekco.ness.com              |         - Senator Ernest Hollings

R R M Tweek wrote in message ...

Like I said, I'm responsible about my dogs and I don't need panty-wastes
lecturing me nor do almost all of the people in this group.

Nor does your right to a trail give you the right to be an obnoxious prig
the second a dog squats.  And, buddy, you have no clue what would happen to
you if you so much as raised a hand to me.

It's one thing to be clean, it's another to be the self-appointed feces
inspector.

In article <6hbtar$...@argentina.earthlink.net>,

If you're a responsible dog owner who cleans up his dog's shit, then
I have no complaint with you.  I had stated as much in my original post.

I look forward to meeting you on the trail.  

--
tw...@netcom.com    tw...@io.com     |  "Well, you and I would differ on
DoD #MCMLX       tw...@ccnet.com     |   what's ignorance and educated."
sig...@tweekco.ness.com              |         - Senator Ernest Hollings

Welll first off let ME state that I ALWAYS clean up after my dogs. Now I
have a question for you. I lived in Sonoma County, California for 15 years.
WHY oh why do you bicyclists feel like YOU own the whole road? Many was the
time when I had to get to an appt., driving along my already winding road,
and came across bikers riding 4-6 abreast along the road, totally blocking
out any way for me to pass ?????? These bikers would NOT move, even if I
beeped and beeped. They would all come up from San Francisco for the
weekends and take up all the beautiful county drives they could, stopping
for wine tasting along the way.

The point I am trying to make here is that MOST of the people that post to
this group do so because they are responsible dog owners, concerned with
their dogs welfare, and clening up after them. I wouldn't presume to go to a
biking group and demand that people make way for cars while riding on the
roads. I would assume that the people that post there are people that enjoy
their sport and are responsible riders. So, other than the trolls that
frequent here you are going to strike a cord with many of us already picking
up after our own dogs. We also have been complaining about others that don't
pick up poop. I go to a park every day with my dogs and step in the
irresponsible dog walker's crap. It does bother me and MOST of all the other
people in this group. I would suggest you at least tone down what looks to
me, your holier than tho attitude...IOW as Keiron said the 'poop police'
attitude....and come here nicely asking if we had any other ways we could
suggest how you can go about bettering the trails and your requests.

This is

By the same token, take this up with the people that you find guilty of the
act. Not a general dog group that, like I already posted ARE mostly
responsible.

Thank you for your time,
MaryBeth

Dave & MaryBeth <nospam.lanal...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

Then I have no problem with you.

If it is a winding road and it is unsafe to pass, section 21202(3) of the
California Vehicle Cod allows a cyclist to keep a vehicle from passing
until it is safe to do so.  At the same time, section 21750 of the code
states that YOU cannot pass until you can do so at a safe distance and
without interfering with the safe operation of the overtaken bicycle.
Now if the above was the case, and after there were five or more cars
behind the cyclists and they didn't pull over where a sufficient area for
a safe turnout existed, then THEY are in violation of section 21656 of the
CVC.

BTW, I especcially like the way you condemn the cyclists for acting like they
own the road, but you have no problem calling it "my already winding road."
Also, if you want to argue this point, take it to rec.bicycles.misc or
ba.bicycles.  It has absolutely nothing to do with dogs and I won't continue
any further along this tangent other than to say that if the cyclists
continued along in your way beyond the allowances in the vehicle code you
have no complaint with me.

Then you presume wrong.  In the cycling newsgroups, we have those who love
to think that stopsigns and red lights don't apply to them.  We have those
who feel that riding on the sidewalk is legal (it isn't).  Just as they
post to the cycling newsgroup for their interest in only one aspect of the
cycling world, I'm sure the rec.pets.dogs newsgroups have those dog owners
who are here for only one or two aspects of the dog ownership life and
couldn't give a damn if they leave their dog's poop behind.

They may be here because:

        - Their dog barks all night long and now the neighbors are
          pissed off enough that they are taking legal action... and
          the dog owner wants a quick fix solution.

        - They just noticed something their dog has been doing and now
          show enough concern to ask in a newsgroup... even though maybe
          they should go and ask a vet about it.

        Any others?  I'm sure that if you think about it, you can come
        up with more.

And there you concede with the use of the word "MOST".  

I believe I clearly stated in my original post, that I had no complaint
with those owners who do clean up after their dogs.  

As to the holier-than-tho attitude, maybe I didn't make it clear in the
two examples... the kids were already walking on, leaving the dog crap
behind, and the woman with the dog squating off the side of the trail,
had the dog doing its business in tall grass under a low bush and her
stance was that of ready to head on once the dog was done.  It was
apparent that neither would have picked up the crap.

As far as asking nicely... Sorry, but I'm done with that.  It didn't work.
I'm being an asshole now.

You conveniently forgot to quote the following text from my original post:

] My complaint isn't with all dog owners, for there are some (I wish I
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
] could say many, but I just don't see that in my experience) who fulfill
] their responsibilities WRT my gripe.  My complaint is with those dog
] owners who take their dog for a walk on the trail and don't...

] I've had enough, and I've started an In-Your-Face campaign right back at
] the irresponsible dog owners.  For the three weeks, as soon as I hit the
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
] trail section of my commute, I stop and attach one of two velcro equiped
] signs to the back of my bike.

As for my taking it up with the people I find irresponsible, that is
exactly what I am doing...  what I posted about, when I mentioned my
stopping and offering a plastic bag to those walking away after their
dog craps.  

--
tw...@netcom.com    tw...@io.com     |  "Well, you and I would differ on
DoD #MCMLX       tw...@ccnet.com     |   what's ignorance and educated."
sig...@tweekco.ness.com              |         - Senator Ernest Hollings

My, my, my.  Methinks they doth protest too much.  Only two people
have responded to this post at the point I read it, but both got
immediately defensive - one going off on a totally pointless diatribe
about cyclists that doesn't belong in rpd.*.

Most of us aren't going to have any problem with this.  My experience
is that _most_ dog-walkers (at least in my area) are picking up their
dog's poop.  Unfortunately, most isn't good enough, as it only takes
one to ruin your day.

However, you do go overboard about the old-shit issue.  In fact, dog
feces rarely stink once they've cooled off, and as long as they're off
the jogger's trail, they'll be totally destroyed by bugs in a couple
of weeks.

Keep up the fight.

Derek (cyclist & responsible dog owner)

I would rather slow down a little for dogs walking their humans than the bikers
or the people who walk around at dark in the middle of the road with dark
clothes on.   Jen  mom to Elmo

R R M Tweek wrote in message ...

Good, then why go on? <G>

So are you saying that I should be late for work, appts or whatever because
I can't pass a bike on my way into town?
These are people that I said are riding 4-6 ABREAST....not singular lanes. I
obviously KNOW not to pass until it is safe.....I lived there and dealt with
this for 15 years. I was talking about irresponsible riders. So if you are
not one then I have no problem with you, dear one.

Oh believe me they would have more than a dozen behind them and still refuse
to move.

Ok clarification here.....this was a PRIVATE road winding thru OUR property
as a shortcut to different wineries or other roads. So yes it was MY road
<G>

You are the one who brought up bicycles here....I was only using it to prove
a point. <G>

 It has absolutely nothing to do with dogs and I won't continue

The reason I brought this up....and stated so in my original post was to
make a point.....you see not everyone follows the rules of the road....just
as not everyone follows the laws of cleaning up after their dogs. If you
had, as proper netiquette requests, read this group awhile before posting,
you would have read MANY posts complaining about the very thing you are. If
you don't see any posts there is a nice tool called dejanews.com.

Okay I concede I should have said I presume that MOST of the people in the
biking groups would be responsible people that follow the rules....you see I
TRY to give people the benefit of the doubt....and think the best until
proven wrong. I don't assume people are all assholes ...until they prove it
themselves or admit it <BG>

Just as they

And your point here? I did say MOST.....as you will find out by the many
replies you will receive <G>

And you, tho you did post that I conceded MOST people here pick up,
conveniently overlooked it unless it was to prove your point <G>

Good, keep up the good work.....on your trail with the people that don't
pick up. I have been a member of this group for over a year and have seen
MANY posts complaining about the idiots that don't pick up. What I'm trying
to get across here is that I understand your problem....as do MOST of the
regulars here. (Please DO note I said MOST<G>) SO my point was you're coming
in here complaining about dog owners in general not following the curb laws.
We are all varied people and I am sure just as you're a curteous biker, as
you say, MOST of us are curteous dog owners. The reason I generalized bikers
was to prove a point....and it worked. It struck a nerve with you....just as
your post struck a nerve with me...a responsible dog owner. No need to flame
me over this. This is, after all, a discussion group.

 what I posted about, when I mentioned my

Good for you, so do I and many on this group :)

I also, BTW carry extra bags to pick up after OTHER people's dogs all the
time. Especaily on the beach. The way I look at it is why let some jerk who
doesn't pick up after  their dog ruin it for all of us that do? If we don't
the dogs won't be allowed anywhere.

MaryBeth

Interesting that there are actually mitts and I assume trash cans provided
along your trail to make clean up easier - I certainly think that in areas
where clean up is a requirement the areas should have *at least* available
trash containers that are emptied regularly. It has always seemed futile to
me to have clean up laws and then no place to put the cleaned up stuff -
and if you are walking multiple dogs carrying it along once it is outside
the dog is not as easy as one might expect <g>.
I certainly hope that Mr 'In Your Face' does not come up against someone
with an "In Your Face" dog who will correct the aggressive stance of the
bicyclist.
While agreeing that owners should clean up I do have to wonder just how the
Bicyclists would feel about an in your face campaign to throw speeders off
their bikes say - a nice stick in the wheels would work - or maybe just an
open baggie of well tossed dog poop....
Nancy

R R M Tweek wrote in message ...

As you stated in your original post?  In your original post you detailed how
you routinely harass all dog owners as soon as their dog(s) start(s)
squatting.

Yeah, whatever dude.  You have absolutely no clue what would happen to you
were you to attack me in any way.  Being drawn and quartered springs to
mind.

Amen.  When I go roller-blading on shared trails, it's quite common for
cyclists to "take over" the trail.  Being that you can go much faster on a
bike, they routinely come up behind and speed by skaters, pedestrians, and
dog walkers alike.  What?  Do we all have eyes on the backs of our heads?
Even a warning bell or beep or "coming through" isn't sufficient and I've
seen quite a few accidents that resulted in injuries because of the complete
disregard and irresponsibility of cyclists.  How's about a "On your left" or
"On your right" guys?  There are also those cyclists who seem to find it
amusing to "buzz" dog walkers (which is why I never walk my dogs near those
trails).  This type of blatant idiot would likely be de-biked (at least) if
he/she decided to come up on me and my dogs in such a manner.

Exactly, albeit said much more nicely than I did.

I think all groups have their fair share of idiots. I nearly ran into the same
guy twice. He was looking down at his roller blades and wasn't looking where
he was going. Dogs on flexi-leads can provide some interesting obstacles for
bikers and walkers alike.

Personally the people that really make me mad are the ones that dispose of
gum. I'd rather have poop on my shoes than the sticky mess that gum makes.

The bottom line, is all users of public ways should be respectful of others.

---------------------
David Bradley                       brad...@erinet.com
Software Engineer

In article <tweekErn5xI....@netcom.com>, tw...@netcom.com (R R M Tweek) quotes:

*It was responded with:

*If you aren't cleaning up your dog's shit when it craps on the trail, then
*you are not a responsible pet owner.

If you don't want a flame war do not respond to this gentleman's posts.  Just
my opinion that he delibrately antagonizes to get you to defend your position.
So just know there are a lot of dog owners that feel it should not be our
responsibility to take on others crap.  I clean up my puppy's "business" and
when I am out at the park I clean up one other pile each time I am there.  I
think it's stinky and my kids step in it and track it in my house.  I agree
100% with you and I own a dog or vice versa.  If a dog owner is being
responsible your sign should be  a welcome sight.  I know I get tired of being
the dog owner that cleans and someone else gets a free ride.  So keep it up!!
If someone has a problem with your campaign then they are not a respnsible pet
owner and should be.  So enough said and leave an antagonizing response where
it belongs...............deleted.

Good luck,
And thanks for use of non-polluting mode of transportation.

Corinna and Kira the mostest beautiful smelling poops in the world......NOT

:       - Two weeks ago I passed a woman with a dog on the other end
:         of the leash.  The dog was squating off in the bushes and the
:         woman was biding her time.  My In-Your-Face comment as I passed
:         by was "That's going to stink really BAD soon."

And how do you know she wasn't about to clean it up as soon as the dog
was finished?

Dave & MaryBeth <nospam.lanal...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

Why go one with you, or in this group?  I'm simply responding to all the
points you brought up, and as far as the thread, I feel that there may
be some of those irresponsible dog owners hanging out here.

I'm giving you one interpretation of the limited facts you posted.  I'm
not saying that you shouldn't pass them.  I'm not saying that they should
keep you from passing them.  I pointed out the circumstances which need to
be met before they can keep you from passing them LEGALLY.  

I didn't assume you had one with me.  You asked me about a specific
situation and I gave you my opinion.  I'm probably the first cyclist
to admit that there are jerks out there on bicycles.  During the months
after the S.F. Critical Mass fiasco, the sign on the back of my bike did
not read "clean up poop".  It read "Not A Critical mAsshole".  Come over
to the cycling newsgroups and bitch about inconsiderate cyclists, and I'll
JOIN you.  They even have a special section on my WWW page.

Then they were in violation of the vehicle code, and from what you mention
later on, apparently asshole cyclists who feel that they have a right to
live in a world without cars.  

Believe me, I know what you are trying to get across by making sure I
don't lump all dog owners into the same category as the irresponsible
ones.  I put up the same fight against folks trying to lump all cyclists
into the car hating enviro-nazi (hope that doesn't invoke Godwin) jerks
who would rather the world not have cars.  That is why I was careful to
state in my first post that I was only bitching about a certain subset of
dog owners.

OK,  then I'll allow that.  ;-)  

I brought it up only so as to prevent this exact tanget which we are
going on right now.  I'm willing to argue it here if you want, but I
was trying to be courteous to your newsgroup by keeping it the focus
on dogs.  I thought out my post very carefully before making it.

BTW, about a month ago I did a trial balloon of this same topic in the
cycling newsgroup... and added the mostly bogus newsgroup rec.pets.dogs
to see what sort of outrage I'd get from the cyclists for what I planned
to do.  Sees that the only one who complained was one who INSISTED that
rec.pets.dogs was a valid newsgroup...  and insisted that it was my duty
to pick up the crap off the trail... as well as to feed milkbones or steaks
to dogs I didn't want chasing me.  (He was reading it in the cycling
newsgroup and not the bogus group)

BTW, Kieron...  I know you aren't all that bad...  I saw your post in
alt.revenge which suggested that placing dog poop found on someone's
driveway back on the driveway of the owner of the dog which deposited it.
Just to place my position in perspective, I wouldn't do that... probably.
If I had to pick it up I'd probably toss it out and then approach the
neighbor about it...  although if the neighbor didn't solve the problem
after that and it continued... well, aybe I would resort to your suggestion.

Take the above as an indication that when I ASKED you if you would feel that
it was within my right to throw the dog crap your dog left behind in your
face, it was a completely theoretical question of expecting to be treated
as you treat others, NOT an indication that I would take this approach.  It
is my impression that you are taking all my gripes personally, even though
I feel confident that I am placing enough qualifications into my writing
that shows it only applies to a specific subset of the entire group.

Actually, I have read the group for about a month.  The thing which makes
my post different from any of those other posts complaining about the
same thing, is that I am specifying the actions I am taking now to try
to educate irresponsible dog owners that I am fed up with it.  And yes,
I know much about DeJaNews.  I use it all the time and have used it on
your newsgroup.  Currently, (not counting this thread) "bicycle poop" shows
one post... not related.  "bike poop" has ten, although they don't talk
about what I talk about... the one which comes closest is one discussing
the springer where the poster mentions that she has to stop when her dog
poops... nothing about cleaning it up though.  "poop pick" nets 419 posts,
but ost of those are in rec.pets.dogs.behavior and deal with dogs eating
their own poop.  There is at least one decent sized thread in there (dog
pollution) which some folks comment upon cleaning up other dog's messes
in order to prevent people like me from going off the wall.  ;-)

Nothing in ther that I found which mentions the problem of a cyclist getting
splattered when not missing the pile... and if you think someone has to be
blind not to miss it, now that the days are getting longer, it's only one
day a week that I'll have to traverse the trail in darkness.

Believe it.  There are mouth breathers all around.  Above you talked about
following netiquette rules before making my post.  Now assume that it's a
given that I'm going to make my post somewhere on the net.  Netiquette
dictates that I chose the most appropriate newsgroup(s) for my post.  Can
you suggest a more appropriate newsgroup where I might find a higher figure
of irresponsible dog owners than these two newsgroups?  (If you noticed, I
specifically avoided the behavior group because I already decided that there
would be very few if any of my intended target there.)

I can't find rec.pets.dogs.owners.irresponsible or similar.  As far as I
can tell, these two groups are the most appropriate for finding the largest
number of irresponsible dog owners with the fewest number of innocents.
[read the above CAREFULLY!  alt.hiking might have one irresponsible dog
owner and 30,000 innocents...  rec.pets.dogs might have 10 irresponsible
dog owners and 30,000 innocents.  That's what I mean by fewer number of
innocents.]

But you didn't say "ALL".  That implies that there are some here which
are irresponsible dog owners and those are the target of my post.

I didn't overlook it.  I have continually stated that my target of these
posts are the irresponsible dog owners.  

Bless the regulars here...  but I'm sure there are some lurkers that
don't... and I'm not placing it beyond the realm of insanity that some of
the trail users I pass daily might pop in here ready to bitch about some
creep on a bike with a sign ...

read more »

You forgot "bikers in dark clothes and no lights doing the wrong way on
a street at night and headed right at you."  They're not left untouched
on my www page either.  

--
tw...@netcom.com    tw...@io.com     |  "Well, you and I would differ on
DoD #MCMLX       tw...@ccnet.com     |   what's ignorance and educated."
sig...@tweekco.ness.com              |         - Senator Ernest Hollings

No disagreement here.  I use a bell about 200 ft out, and then call out
when I am about 50 ft out.  There are lots of cyclists that do not
however.  I will not pass anyone when there is oncoming users which
would all pass at the same point.  There are cyclist which will however.

I found "on your left" or "on your right" to be misinterpreted to often
by newbie trail users.  I use "passing... left" or "passing... right"
so as to not have the newbie trailuser interpret "on your left" as a command.
The reason for the pause is to serve as a break until they are fully paying
attention to the next word.  Sometimes I will only call out "passing" if the
person is walking a dog and they are on one side of the trail with the
dog on the other.  I will complete the callout with right or left once I
see which side they prefer to clear.  If the owner is facing the side of
the trail, even if out of my path, I still call out "passing... behind you".

--
tw...@netcom.com    tw...@io.com     |  "Well, you and I would differ on
DoD #MCMLX       tw...@ccnet.com     |   what's ignorance and educated."
sig...@tweekco.ness.com              |         - Senator Ernest Hollings

Derek Broughton, Coco & Donka <nos...@usa.net> wrote:

I might have gone overboard with the one woman where I commented about
it...  especially since more rains were on the way, but it is true that
back in September of 97, three quarters of the trail had a cooked poop
smell that lingered until the rains came.  

--
tw...@netcom.com    tw...@io.com     |  "Well, you and I would differ on
DoD #MCMLX       tw...@ccnet.com     |   what's ignorance and educated."
sig...@tweekco.ness.com              |         - Senator Ernest Hollings

Nancy  E.Holmes or R. Nelson Ruffin <fmkaf...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

There are more trash cans along the trail than poop-mitt stations.  Over
the entire six mile portion I use, there are three poop-it stations.  One
just before the start of the trail at the staging area, one about 2 miles
up the trail, and the third at the Moraga Commons where my trail use ends.

On the other hand, there must be about 10, 55 gallon trash barrels along
the same route.  There is no trashcan at the midpoint mitt dispenser, but
there is one within a couple of blocks of it.

I hope not either, but my in-your-face stance is just words and nothing
which can be considered assault or battery.  If they keep it at that
level, then I will have no problem.  If they escalate, then they will
be the one who will have to worry about things.

You're taking it one level beyond that which I am taking it to.  If you are
taking my comment to Kieron about "how would he feel if...", that was
a purely theoretical question.  I have absolutely no intention of chucking
poop at the folks who don't clean it up.  I never suggested that I did.  What
you might have interpreted as such was just a question asking if he was
willing to be treated as he treats others.  

I have no problem with someone asking a speeding cyclist to slow down.  

"In-Your-Face" is about being rude right back at them, not attacking them.

--
tw...@netcom.com    tw...@io.com     |  "Well, you and I would differ on
DoD #MCMLX       tw...@ccnet.com     |   what's ignorance and educated."
sig...@tweekco.ness.com              |         - Senator Ernest Hollings

Susan Mudgett aka little gator <s...@harvee.billerica.ma.us> wrote:

I'd say that her stance of ready to move on once the dog was finished
was a good indication of that.  She was on the edge of the paved trail,
partially facing the direction of her travel, and the dog was 5 feet off
the trail, in tall grass under a bush.  

--
tw...@netcom.com    tw...@io.com     |  "Well, you and I would differ on
DoD #MCMLX       tw...@ccnet.com     |   what's ignorance and educated."
sig...@tweekco.ness.com              |         - Senator Ernest Hollings

Thanks.  I sort of suspected that and wasn't going to respond any further
to his posts covering the same points.  I didn't come to start a flame war,
although the publicity can't hurt.  ;-)  

I was hoping such.  It was the same logic I used when I had the "not a
critical masshole" sign last year although the purpose was to keep upset
motorists from endangering me because they might have thought I was just
another own-the-road cyclist.  The only group that that sign would have
insulted would have been those cyclists that were the radicals within
the critical mass ride.

Will do.  Thanks.

It started as neccesity last March, and turned into not having the
motivation to fix my motorcycle.  Scarry thought is that I think I'm
now a spoke-head.  ;-)  

--
tw...@netcom.com    tw...@io.com     |  "Well, you and I would differ on
DoD #MCMLX       tw...@ccnet.com     |   what's ignorance and educated."
sig...@tweekco.ness.com              |         - Senator Ernest Hollings