AQC Pressure Treated Wood for Dog House
iantw...@gmail.com
bought pressure treated wood (both plywood and 2x4's), figuring it
would be exposed to the elements.
I didn't consider that the dog could potentially chew on the wood. I
was lucky in that the store had ACQ wood as opposed to CCA treated
wood, as the arsenic in CCA treated wood is definitely harmful / fatal
if ingested.
However, is my dog safe with the ACQ wood? It has no toxic chemicals,
and is safer than CCA treated wood, but I can't find anything regarding
ingesting ACQ wood, such as lab testing, or stories with bad endings
involving ACQ wood. What is everyone's opinion on using the ACQ wood
for the dog house, and is there any testing done that I could look at
to set my mind at ease?
Thanks everyone.
Rocky
> What is everyone's opinion on using the ACQ wood
> for the dog house, and is there any testing done that I
> could look at to set my mind at ease?
There's some pressure treated wood in my dog's house, but it's
clad on the outside with vinyl siding and on the inside with
drywall and paint. As well, my dogs don't chew on the wood
because they're well supervised in that I live in the house with
them.
Sarcasm aside, why can't your puppy live in your house?
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Janet B
heels and said:
> What is everyone's opinion on using the ACQ wood
>for the dog house, and is there any testing done that I could look at
>to set my mind at ease?
Your puppy will be a lot safer in many ways, plus faster to train, if
he lives in your house and is crated when you can't be watching
him/aren't home. Of course that doesn't mean you can stick a puppy
in a crate and leave for 12 hours, but then again, no puppy should be
alone for that long in any circumstance.
If you want a puppy who learns the house rules (regarding what is
appropriate to chew on, that outside is for eliminating, etc) as well
as become a bonded and obedient pet, raising your puppy with 100%
supervised house freedom, using a crate only when not home, sleeping,
or occupied in something that the puppy needs to be safely confined
due to, is the way to go.
The dog house may be attractive for a resting place for your puppy
when you're all outside for extended periods of time, but otherwise,
it's not an ideal place for a puppy, regardless of material used.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
iantw...@gmail.com
information on ACQ wood. It is going to be a house dog, which I leave
in our yard when I'm gone. It will have the dog house as shelter /
warmth (when it's cold).
Does anyone have any information on ACQ wood?
Thanks again.
sighthounds & siberians
Nope. Better find a site on wood.
Mustang Sally
Rocky
> Thanks for the dog training advice, but I was looking more for
> information on ACQ wood.
Then you may find the answers you want on wood groups.
Janet B
heels and said:
> It is going to be a house dog, which I leave
>in our yard when I'm gone.
Really bad idea, but you don't seem particularly interested in that.
>Does anyone have any information on ACQ wood?
Rec.wood?
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
iantw...@gmail.com
for work (8-9 hours)? As opposed to the securely fenced backyard in my
house? Could someone explain why that is a bad idea? If this is to
train the dog, and a temporary thing, then I can understand that. But
if anything else, then I'd love to hear the reasoning.
TheSimplyAmaz...@hotmail.com
WELCOME To The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Forums.
I'm Jerry Howe, The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
Here's your own FREE COPY of The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{) : ~ } >
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
iantw...@gmail.com wrote:
> I built a dog house yesterday for a new lab puppy we're getting.
Good for you. The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard
admires folks who got handicraft skills <{): ~ ) >
> I bought pressure treated wood (both plywood and 2x4's),
> figuring it would be exposed to the elements.
A WIZE idea.
> I didn't consider that the dog could potentially chew on the wood.
Destructive chewing is an anXXXIHOWESNESS relief mechanism.
> I was lucky in that the store had ACQ wood as opposed
> to CCA treated wood, as the arsenic in CCA treated wood
> is definitely harmful / fatal if ingested.
So they sez. Here in Orlando, FL there was a big scene abHOWET
arsenic treated wood and chips used kid's playgrHOWENDS in parks.
> However, is my dog safe with the ACQ wood?
While it IS possible your dog COULD hurt hisself destructively
chewin wood, he PROBABLY WON'T. Furthermore you can TRAIN him
NOT TO DESTRUCTIVELY CHEW ANY THING if you study and follow the
INSTRUCTIONS in your own FREE COPY of The Freakin Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTNTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{): ~ ) >
> It has no toxic chemicals, and is safer than CCA treated wood,
> but I can't find anything regarding ingesting ACQ wood, such
> as lab testing, or stories with bad endings involving ACQ wood.
Shouldn't matter if it's non toxic.
> What is everyone's opinion
You're askin LIARS DOG ABUSERS COWARDS and ACTIVE ACUTE
CHRONIC LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES for advice THEY
AIN'T GOT, as you've NOTICED from the REPLIES they've sent.
> on using the ACQ wood for the dog house, and is there
> any testing done that I could look at to set my mind
> at ease?
Yeah. Read the POSTED CASE HISTORIES of The Freakin Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD who've REPORTED
they CURED ALL temperament and behavior problems NEARLY
INSTANTLY by simply doin EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE of
HOWE the LYIN DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASES you're askin for
advice.
> Thanks everyone.
If you read this you'll SEE the MENTAL CASES
who've replied to you with their NON ADVICE:
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
Sometimes my "voice of god" startles human
and dog, especially when the human didn't
see the inappropriate behaviour. --Matt.
Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"dallygirl" <kwic...@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
> causing more harm than good.
Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.
It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."
THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?
Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what would
> > be the point? Where I come from, choking is choking.
> > It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
Deltones wrote:
>
> Rocky wrote:
>
> > "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com>
>
> > > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > > is choking. It's never limited.
Not so in PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING, Deltones.
> > So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> > Thank you for your contribution.
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Looks like you've pushed the mental cases over the edge again...
> Well, I think you carefully avoided quoting the last part of my post.
> You know the one about a bunch of little Colonel Parker doing Elvis's
> out of their dogs? Oh right, limited choking is not abuse, and pumping
> dogs full of drugs to make them behave ain't either in your world huh?
> For the benefit of our gentle readers, here's the part you forgot to
> quote:
?
> Oh, what the hell. Check out a thread started around Nov 23 called
> "Help with a Nuerotic Hound..." where I wonder if you guys are talking
> about dogs or Woody Allen's pharmacy. I'll stick with praises and noise
> distraction to train my dog, thank you.
>
> ----------
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to
it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar," Lynn K.
"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.
<except when it is>
"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.
<except when it is>
"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.
--------------------
"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K.
----------------
From: "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com>
Date: 2 Dec 2005 10:55:41 -0800
Subject: Re: In defense of Jerry Howe's methods
Mary Healey wrote:
> I'm still asking for 5 original posts from people here at least 5
> years to support your initial contention (NOT HURTING DOGS TO TRAIN
THEM). You're 0 for 2, so far.
That's 2 in 2 as far as I'm concerned but hey, if you insist. I'm
really curious to see what will be the justification this time. So far
we have:
Limited choking? Hey, it's limited, As
Neo would say: Woah, there is no choke.
Dogs pumped full of prozac? Hey, they're trippin
man. Remember Woodstock. Euh.... Woodwhat?
E-Collar? I'm sure some of you will come up with: But my
dog look so pretty with an electrified perm. Swoooon.
So on with the fun. Taken from the "Collars" thread,
started by Perry Templeton June 20 2005
Denis
------------
On 26 Jun 2005 10:52:42 -0700, lucyaa...@claque.net, wrote:
> What does the "choke" in the "choke chain" stand for, then?
> Lucy
one reason I call them slip collars. Their is a correction involved,
and while it causes momentary discomfort, does not choke the dog.
OTOH, it is CAPABLE fo being used to do that, should a situation
warrant it.
--
Janet B
----------
And here's another one from the same author,
taken from the same thread.
---------
167. Janet B
Jun 21, 12:03 pm show options
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:40:11 +0100, "Alison"
<Ali...@XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk>, wrote:
> I'm just wondering why you had to use choke chains to train"your
> dogs especially as they are so small.
Oh geez - let's see - how many JRTs act like alligators at the end of
a leash? I personally prefer prong collars.
----------
Let's go for the hat trick with the same author, taken from the same
thread:
----------
141. Janet B
Jun 27, 10:01 pm
I don't use choke chains. Not quite true - I use a jeweler's hex link
on Franklin at times - it's puuuuuurty. I know the "sound" thing
and all, and when training a dog in a non-group setting, that sound
may be a factor, but I think it fails in the context of a group class.
So, I prefer the better fitting nylon slip collars, and very often,
pinch collars (small link unless it's a freaky dog, then they need
the milder medium link).
But I use e-collars too. With one of my dogs and with some clients.
For circumstances where a physical collar and leash is not the right
answer. I'm sure Lucy has no clue what THAT means!
--
Janet B
----------
HOWEDY janet,
Looks like you and your pals have gone totally INSANE again:
Janet B wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 14:44:14 -0500, Janet B
> <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>, clicked their heels and said:
> > Since you quoted me repeatedly, where does it say I beat dogs, choke
> > dogs, scream at dogs, etc? Thanks for your clarification.
.
> responding to my own post, I had to go back and look at the original
> post, to remind myself what "we" are all accused of doing:
>
> "screaming, choking, shocking, pinching, beating the living crap
> out of your dogs"
>
> Scream? no
>
> Choke? no
>
> Shock? e-collars are a lot more sophisticated than that
>
> Pinch? if you want to classify a momentary discomfort by a prong
> collar, go ahead, but unless you have first hand experience with
> one, your opinion means nothing
>
> Beat the living crap out of? hardly - no hitting exists
"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.
"BethF" <b...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com>
wrote in message
news:v4r8kkf...@corp.supernews.com...
Kyle, FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
and i often call my little dog the turd, because
he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
matter of personality.
Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
step on him once. Seriously.
"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise."
"BethF" <d...@alaska.com> wrote in message
news:uohnj3r...@corp.supernews.com...
Maybe that's what we should do - hold back the dobie
girl so that Izzy can put Simon in his place.
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars
Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63...@4ax.com...
Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.
The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.
What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.
I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.
I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.
Sally Hennessey
"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv...@4ax.com...
Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.
I'm starting to see some similarities here.
Sally Hennessey
"Janet Boss offered a pat on the back, commenting that
ultimately it wasn't Kate's decision. Whose was it? I asked.
Why, it was Teena's, averred Janet.
Janet was in an exculpatory frame of mind because she
contributed to this travesty herself, by advising Kate to
repeat the aggression trigger (grooming) on a daily basis.
It's all in the archives.
Now these two are spouting off about what kind of e-collars
they like to use on their dogs. Well, I've got an AC Delco
model that would be just right for Janet or Kate. BZZZZzzt!
I'd have to find it though, and I can't remember if I left
it in my underground bunker or the crawlspace under my
house," Charlie.
Here's janet's PARTNER:
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
sinofabitch writes:
> > What I have said- repeatedly - is that he
> > took posts from two different people,
> > took pieces of them out of context,
Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?
> > cobbled them together,
No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.
> > then added his own words:
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
> > and a fake signature.
"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
> > Which is exactly what he did.
INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.
> > The actual quote is misleading
That so?
> > when taken out of context,
We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...
> > and Jerry's faked "quote"
The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.
> > is downright meaningless.
Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.
Here's Jerry's version
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
Here's yours:
"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
See?
"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1...@uwm.edu...
> Di,
> I don't believe you mentioned a particular kind of
> training. If you are interested in training retrieval
> behavior than do consider our own Amy Dahl's:
> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a Well-
> Mannered, Obedient and Enthusiastic Gun Dog
> in 10 Minutes a Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl
You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog
I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance
Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But
Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want
to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could
possibly get a good working dog by making them
unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl.
> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the few
> regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
> ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall
amy lying frosty dahl continues:
"On the other extreme, the really ard dogs
we have trained require much more frequent
and heavy application of pressure (PAIN j.h.)
to get the job done,
This is continued resistance to your increasing
authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.
terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."
lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...
Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should
knee the dog in the chest, step on its toes, throw
him down by his ears and climb all over it like a
raped ape growling into his throat and bite IT on
his ears, or leash pop it on a pronged spiked pinch
choke collar or pop him in the snout with the heel
of your palm.
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.
You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for
her coment above regarding her success with
The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy Separation
Anxiety / Bed Time Calming / Submissive
Urination Technique (STSA/BTC/SUT)?
Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z,
who commented that his bed time calming technique
was quite similar?
> > You're scary Marilyn.
> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed individual.
> > I feel very sorry for her and her family.
"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "CourteHOWES Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"dallygirl" <kwic...@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
> causing more harm than good.
Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.
It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will
Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe.
This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times
It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer.
"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome
"You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome"
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
frosty dahl.
You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies HURT all
their lives like HOWE HOWER dog lovers PREFER to
HURT THEIR DOGS?
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL.
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
"When you get bagged for lying you're MARKED
FOR LIFE," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{); ~ ) >
BWEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
From: Mark Shaw (m...@bangnetcom.com)
Subject: Re: Fido-Shock
Date: 2002-04-10 14:12:18 PST
In article <gWLs8.203228$af7.101030@rwcrnsc53>,
"Coleman Brumley" <clbrum...@home.com> wrote:
> Has anyone had experience with this product (Fido-
> Shock). If so, what model number, voltage, etc.?
If you're talking about the pet-grade hotwire system,
I have one. It's to keep boarded dogs out of my flowers.
> I have a 1.5 year St Bernard who is scaling (not clearing --
> more like falling over) our 4 foot fence to visit with owners
> walking their dogs. I thought of raising the fence a foot or
> so, but don't think that'll solve the problem. I've tried
> watching her outside, and give a stern "NO" when she
> props on the fence for a peek over it. No avail.
> I've heard this product works after just a couple of tries.
I take it you're considering running the wire across the top
of the fence? I don't think I'd recommend that, although it
may be worth a try. Watch closely -- the one case where I saw
a hotwire used in this fashion caused the dog undue stress and
frustration, and he tried even harder to get over the fence.
So be prepared to take it down right away.
That was a Dane, though. With a Saint things might be
different.
--
Mark Shaw
culprit's dogs MURDERED her kat for
standin behind their SHOCK FENCE
just like HOWE liea's dog attacked
her only friend and tried to attack two
little kids for standin in her SHOCK ZONE:
From: culprit (culp...@flashmail.com)
Subject: Re: Video clip......."Nero" practicing
bark alert, while walking backwards
Date: 2004-06-05 18:53:50 PST
"micha el" <spam_yurs...@spamyourmamma.com>
wrote in message news:yIydnZpPsIz...@comcast.com...
> Anyway, contrary to your PR, this is what
> it felt like to me when I got shocked by
> Hope's collar.
> It felt like a bomb going off in my
> hand and forearm.
--------------------------------
"Tricia9999" <tricia9...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021117101433...@mb-cg.aol.com...
>> how effective are these electronic fences in
>> keeping a dog on a property????
Some run through it. Others get shocked and become
too scared to go out in the yard anymore.
Just heard of a guy that has to rehome his dog,
because the dog got caught right in the path of
the shock and will now not go near his person,
won't go outside.
Just hides under a desk in the house.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!
"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.
"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll
state my opinion once and won't defend it further:
any method can be cruel for some dogs.
Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at
the beginning, but we've come a long way since then.
She trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.
Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.
Is it time for that?
What might I look for to tell?"
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@comcast.net>
wrote in message news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...
After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
and the vet agrees.
--Lia
"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help.
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusMed.WMV
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusSmall.WMV"
THAT'S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by
MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according
to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and
ASYLUM ESCAPEES.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!
In this video, the dog is constantly jerking his
head all around. I'm not SHORE why he's doing that.
If he's doing it because he is being shocked repeatedly
into getting onto that skateboard, then it is my
opinion that Fred Hassen is a dog abuser in the
extreme. As would anyone be, no matter how much
"experience" they had shocking dogs, nor how
nationally "respected" they are/were.
If, HOWEver, the dog is jerking his head all around
because he is happy and for no other reason, well,
then, never mind. I've just never seen this kind of
behavior from a dog before, so maybe Fred can
explain what would cause a dog to move his head
like that.
Here's a other:
http://tinyurl.com/2v9oh
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
>
>
On 6 Feb 2006 01:19:16 -0800,
"dallygirl" <kwic...@hotmail.com>, clicked their heels and said:
> janet, yes unfortunatly i have. i joined a mother and daughter duo
> training group and i am still kicking my arse over it :( i have since
> learnt (and anyone new to dogs please take note!) they have no
> qualifications only their own experience.
What exactly does that mean?
> its because of them i am busting a gut to get qualified and to join the apdt.
"credentials" only mean something if the issuing organization is
recognized as THE authority. The American Medical Association, The
American Bar Association - things like that. There is no "whatever"
dog association that licenses dog trainers.
> i saw a massive negative difference in my dogs behaviour when on the
> lead and i didnt yank or pull i never would no matter what the
> 'trainers' said.
What exactly were you doing with the lead that caused a negative
behavior? Do you not use a lead when training? Not on city streets?
> i guess i was as distressed as my dog.
I'm pretty sure you are the only one who was distressed and you
transmitted that to your dog.
> i took a dog out of this real nasty hell hole. the lady had set her
> self up as a rescue then had about 20 dogs running free in her back
> garden and it broke down to chaos.i took out a young lab female who
> was so scared she wouldnt climb into my car and i wasnt going to force
> her so i just sat next to her but on my tail gate. the 'rescue' woman
> growled and grabbed the dog at the back of the neck and a lump of flesh
> at the rump and threw her into my car.
What on earth does that have to do with properly using a variety of
training tools? So far, you've equated using choke collars with
people who enjoy drop-kicking dogs.
>with ppl such as this working with dogs i want to show a 'better way'.
>i don't refer to them when i'm talking to the person on the street as
>'tools of horror' but i do give them some tips on a nicer way.
When 150# Cujo is trying to eat the dog net door,
what "nicer way" do you employ?
> the thing is, you put one of those around your neck, be it choke
> prong or electric and then tell me you want to keep using them.
My neck is very different from a dog's neck. I have no problem with a
choke or prong on my neck - I would respond accordingly. As far as
electric, I have had a ton of PT at times, and the electricity has
been a godsend.
>ok i am bent over ~ no pointy toes please, but form an orderly line to
>kick my arse..............i am braced :)
Nope - don't believe in kicking. But I do use a variety of collars
when training dogs. I'm not a big fan of CHAIN chokes, because I
don't find them easy to fit properly. I prefer nylon slip collars in
general, will never connect a leash to a buckle ID collar, and find
prong collars to be very, very useful training tools.
Rudy is going to start learning the e-collar this week.
I'm sure you'll NOT hear screams from across the pond.
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?
Paxil Princess psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."
"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.
REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.
Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar.
Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in
With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'
Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.
Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear," lying frosty dahl.
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
Should I have refused to groom them?
Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
Lynn K.
"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:
"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
ginge...@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.
"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.
Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."
8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).
If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.
This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...
Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.
In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.
In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.
Which one is it?
WORDS OF WISDOM
From Our Own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft
EVERY DAY
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever
to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we
earn the right to participate in by observing
the easily understood rules and contributing
to in constructive ways."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS
Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined
-----------------------------------------
> But I think what Lois was referring to was
> the fact that Darlene actually stated at
> some point that she was bipolar--and, IIRC,
> that meds did not work for her--so she was
> prone to major-league ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03
BoxHill wrote:
> I know I am totally off topic here, but have
> you read "The Unquiet Mind"?
Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.
Lynn K.
---------------------------------------
MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"
MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...
YOU DO THE MATH
"What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,
'I take anti-depressives'"
From: Gary & lois Edwards (g...@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02
BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS
"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted."
The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.
No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."
Lois E.
-------------------------------------
"It was kind of funny, in an absurd way. The rabbit
was completely still, eyes open and glazed, dried
blood in his ears and mouth, with his back legs
stiffening quickly.
It was her pet rabbit, not a wild bunny, so
that made it much harder for her.
And he was killed by bichons.
Her dogs had torn it apart. My one student who had
shown up (another weird thing about the night) and I
had to continuously check for heart and bowel sounds
for her, until she could accept that the rabbit was dead.
(The rigor mortis in his back legs she attributed to "pain").
Full moon.
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
> Then she mentioned the names of her dogs,
> and I immediately remembered them.
YOUR STUDENT, leah. Like that RECENT GRADUATE
STUDENT Rottie who'd been in your SOCIALIZATION
classes since IT was ten weeks old who RECENTLY
MURDERED a little innocent DEAD DOG at the park.
> I will always remember the dogs.
Yeah. You and ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN.
From: dfrntdr...@aol.comMURK-OFF (Leah)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 00:55:40 GMT
Subject: Re: The Puppy Wizard
>"Mike E" m...@egbert.com wrote:
> My question was "Is there any legitimacy to the
> harshly-worded teachings of the Puppy Wizard?"
Any legitimate advice he gives is plagiarized from
other, more coherent sources.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. :}
PetsMart Pet Trainer
See My Furry Family At:
Leah Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her chronic
mental problems. Recenly changed to
another ANTI PSYCHOTIC prescription.
"I don't think Jerry intentionally lies. I think he twists
things around in his own mind until he actually believes
what he's saying."
Jerry is the only poster here who gives dangerous
advice. Google for spike and squirt. And let's not
forget the times he's told posters whose dogs have
medical problems that his halfwits-end program could
cure them.
PetsMart Pet Trainer
My Kids, My Students, My Life
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"dallygirl" <kwic...@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
> causing more harm than good.
Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.
It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAHAHAHHHHAHHHAAAAA!!!
NHOWE THAT'S SUMPTHIN TO BE PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?
The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
Damn The Descartean War of
"Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words
And Actions And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
"The day may come when the rest of the animal creation
may acquire those rights
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.
The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham
All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls their
hearts and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092
The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{TFSAPW} ; - ) >
ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?
,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizard. <{YPW} ; ~ } >
oo-oo
Janet B
heels and said:
>The consensus on here is that I leave my dog in a crate when I leave
>for work (8-9 hours)?
Not quite. He'll need you or a petsitter to come midday. Not only
does he need to go out, but he should be fed 4x/day until 3 months,
and 3x/day until 6 months (2x/day thereafter).
>As opposed to the securely fenced backyard in my
>house? Could someone explain why that is a bad idea?
Poisoning, torment, theft, eating things like the dog house, rocks,
siding, downspouts, garden implements, plants, digging to china,
barking and crying and annoying the neighbors, possible escape - the
list goes on and on.
>If this is to
>train the dog, and a temporary thing, then I can understand that. But
>if anything else, then I'd love to hear the reasoning.
See above. It's pretty hard to be truly secure and safe from
outside influences and injury from any number of things.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
TheSimplyAmaz...@hotmail.com
iantwri...@gmail.com wrote:
> The consensus on here is that I leave my dog
> in a crate when I leave for work (8-9 hours)?
Your newfHOWEND pals lock their dogs in boxes 16-20
HOWERS a day for years, iantwright. There AIN'T NUTHIN
"NOT WRIGHT" with YOU iant... you're askin LIARS DOG
ABUSERS COWARDS and ACTIVE ACUTE CHRONIC LONG TERM
INCURABLE MENTAL CASES who HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER
innocent defenseless dumb critters an LIE abHOWET it.
> As opposed to the securely fenced backyard in my house?
THAT'S on accHOWENT of these MENTAL CASES can't train
their own dogs not to ESCAPE despite their shock fences
and can't train them not to eat poison and bark constantly.
> Could someone explain why that is a bad idea?
Yeah. Your newfHOWEND pal janet's own dog ESCAPED her
yard and got PAINCAKED by a car in front of her HOWES.
Her other dog COOKED in 104F heat when she COULDN'T GET
IT to come inside for the day inside her crate in her
air conditionined HOWES.
> If this is to train the dog, and a temporary
> thing, then I can understand that.
INDEED? WHAT "TRAINING" occurs INSIDE A CRATE?
> But if anything else, then I'd love to hear the reasoning.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Here's some of the MENTAL PATIENTS you're askin for "advice":
From: Momi...@webtv.net (misty)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:29:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?
Beth wrote:
> So, jerry's techniques didnt' work for Peach?
Never had a chance to try them on her... I was still
using the e-fence and chains to keep her in the yard.
The suggestions I received here to keep Peach home were:
build a fence... wasn't going to happen.. we plan on
putting a modular home here within the next few years...
put more fence at the top of the pen I used so both dogs
could play bitey face w/o tangling, and similar suggestions.
Jerry was the only one to mention border training... but he
was kook supreme ;-P So I ignored him... no killfiles with
webtv.. at that time Jerry had his own troll, somewhat like
Candace, so the group was not very conducive to learning anything.
At one point I even b*tched about Jerry.
By the time I tried out Jerry's manual Peach had already
ran away.
Not very good at the google groups search but you'll find my
first post at "runaway dog message 30" within that thread
is mention of the dogs taking off and being gone for 2 days.
I stopped posting for a bit... my middle boy was devastated
that his dog was gone... Zelda came home but not her mom.
The next few posts from me were ones about/to Jerry.
Then Jerry made the WETM accessible for webbes, I put it
in my e-mail (no storage otherwise on webby unless you put
stuff on a webpage) and read it, read it and read it.
Once I understood what the concept was, I implemented it
on Zelda. It worked and I now have a great housedog!
I only regret that my own distrust of Jerry caused me to
lose another wonderful dog. Peach was an absolute gem with
little kids. I and my boys still miss her. Sometimes I
still look to see if she came home when we get back from trips.
Maybe Peach would still have ran away... I don't know
and never will....
~misty
---------------
From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:16:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?
Peach would be there sittin pretty had our pals not given
you a bum steer cause they're EMBARRASSED and AFRAID of
losing their careers and reputations....
Stick around, we're just startin to have FUN learning and
sharing...J;~)
---------------
"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net wrote in message:
I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know she's
not here with us. I really can't blame anyone here for her
loss.
I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because of
how you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the idea
that my using a shock collar could have any bearing on
Peach not wanting to stay home.
Up until I started using it my main concern had been
keeping my dogs in their own yard.
Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my concern
became how to keep them from running off for days on end.
I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the
anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.
I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now <g>
A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained,
doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn't bark all
the time.
IOW a great companion and friend.
Thanks Jerry!
---------------
misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two
dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.
Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come
back in the yard and would run for days.
The last time, Peach didn't come back home.
I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train
my dog. She is now border trained. A few minutes each day
reinforces her desire to stay in the yard.
She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from
chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk around
the yard.
I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the
e-fence and its collars. If you can't get a regular fence
then you need to train your dog.
I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog
in our yard again.
The price was too high:-( ~misty
--------------------------------
"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
Hi Cathy!
Yes I used The Wits End Method to train my girl, Zelda.
You can check the archives and see I'm a real person..
I post in misc.kids.breastfeeding, alt.cats rec.pets.cats.annecdotes
(not lately, my kitty died) rec.pets.dogs.behavior rec.pets.birds and
a ton of webtv firewalled ngs.
Zelda and her mom, Peach (RB) both loved to run the
neighborhood with my neighbors 2 male dogs. An e-fence
couldn't keep them home, chains pulled up and Peach could
jump/climb a 5 ft. fence.
I wrote in here for advice and felt like Jerry had jumped
down my throat. Upon re-reading his post to me..well..it
hit home hard that I was being abusive to my dog.
The thought of shocking my dog ever again makes me
want to puke.
Like I've said before... I might not like the way Jerry
treats some of the other posters but he gave me ( for _free_)
a way to teach myself and my dog.
I can let Zelda outside and not worry that a potty break
will mean she'll be gone for 2 days or, worse yet, not ever
come home...like her mom.
Zelda stopped chewing everything in sight once I started
applying Jerry's methods. One time of "bad slipper!" and
she never chewed another one up :-D
I don't post here a lot because I don't ave any problems
needing solved. I do join in occasionally or post informative
lnks. I just feel that my limited experience precludes me
from jumping in every thread <shrug> but I do read all of them.
If you want my phone number, e-mail me. We would have to
set up a time because I'm on the webbie a lot and we only
have 1 phone line.
~misty
=============
HOWEDY matty,
Rocky wrote:
> Robin said in rec.pets.dogs.health:
> > > Success!
> > Jerry, you give the lying dog abusing punk thug coward
> > mental cases too much credit for the ability to influence
Naaah, The Amazing Puppy Wizard was just BAITING these lying
dog abusing punk thug coward mental cases again <{); ~ ) >
> You really are a piece of work.
INDEEDY, matty. Robin studied and followed the INSTRUCTIONS
in her FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual and REPORTED her 100% NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS
RIGHT HERE on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual Forums And SCHOOL Of HARD KNOCKS
And HUMAN BEHAVIOR RESEARCH LABORATORIES, matty <{); ~ ) >
You're settin in it <{); ~ ) >
> Keep this out of the health groups, 'kay?
Dogs DIE from separation anXXXIHOWESNESS, matty, JUST
LIKE HOWE your own DEATHLY ILL dog Rocky is DYIN from
STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's
SYNDROME, on accHOWENT of you're a lyin dog abusin punk
thug coward MENTAL CASE, matty, and you can't post here
abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE <{); ~ ) >
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
IN FACT, Robin followed up on her original 100% NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL REPORT with a other WON, matty.
PERHAPS you'd like to READ IT, matty?:
Thurs,Jun 16 2005 4:17 am
Subject: Re: Puppy Wizard - Report, Day Two
HOWEDY malinda,
Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article <robin4joy-49BEBF.23045015062.....@news.west.cox.net>,
> Robin <robin4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> [nothing of value]
"Success!" is what Robin wrote, malinda.
Robin wrote that she CURED her 12 year old dogs
separation anXXXIHOWESNESS NEARLY INSTANTLY
using her FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{);~ ) >
> jeebus but you're a selfish, inconsiderate dimwit.
That so? Didn't you want to know HOWE she done it, malinda?
> Plonk.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHHAHAAAA!!!
> --
> Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - s...@panix.com
HOWEDY Robin,
Robin wrote:
> Success!
Of curse. You GOT your 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT
SUCCESS on your first use of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
Surrogate Toy Separation AnXXXIHOWESNESS / Bed Time Calming /
Fear Of Thunder / Submissive Urination / Car Sickness Technique
JUST LIKE HOWE all them other 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students whom HOWER DOG LOVERS call LIARS and their posts
FORGERIES <{); ~ ) >
> I left for about 25 minutes, and when I returned and walked
> thru the front door - no dog standing there waiting for me!
INDEEDY.
As sharon too veterinary office manager and mrs veterinarian
sez "you might wanna take it to private email..."
> No barking, no whimpering - no anything.
Of curse not. Separation anXXXIHOWESNESS is CAUSED
BY MISHANDLING. HOWER method WILL NOT WORK for these
dog lovers, Robin, on accHOWENT of NUTHING will over-
come the RESULT of even occasional use of ANY pain
fear force intimidation bribery or avoidance method
<{); ~ ) >
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method is a GESTALT. You CANNOT pick and
choose through what you LIKE and continue to rely
on other methods like JUST TELLIN THE DOG "NO!"
on accHOWENT of it INCREASES anXXXIHOWESNESS and
MISTRUST <{);~ ) >
The alpha theory is INVALID.
> In fact, no dog!
She's comfortable...
> I got worried, looking all over for her.
Perhaps you're gettin a little OCD?
> I found her asleep (yes, asleep!!!!) on a pile of
> clothing that was on the floor in my second bedroom.
Is she not allHOWED in there? You could train
her not to go in there in just a couple of
minutes. The Amazing Puppy Wizard's dogs NEVER
go into Mrs. The Amazing Puppy Wizard's sewin
room, door or no door, they don't think of it.
> I left a tape recorder running while I was gone,
> but, without realizing it, I had it set to Voice
> Activation - and it hadn't been activated! I
> don't think she made a sound while I was gone.
Of curse not. THAT'S HOWE COME you DID the Surrogate
Toy Technique <{); ~ ) >
> I almost feel ready to give it a big test -
> leave her at home while I go to a movie,
Time is irrelevent immaterial and inconsequential.
Unless you're gone long enough to EXXXCEED her
needs for a break, food, water, etc, physical needs.
> which I haven't been able to do since I got
> her a little over one year ago.
HOWEsbreaking is INSTINCTIVE at four weeks of age.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard has been training puppys
withHOWET EVER being crated for over forty years
and they WORK protecting their HOWESES by six months
of age.
Most EVERY THING the EXXXPERTS tell us abHOWET dogs
IS DEAD WRONG, as you've just PROVEN for yourself.
> Both times I employed your technique over the
> last couple of days, I did so at night.
Although dogs are creatures of habit, it won't
matter when you're gone. Dogs habituate themselves
to routines EZ. THAT'S HOWE COME it's SO EZ to
HABITUATE or TRAIN them to ANY new routine. Kinda
JUST LIKE KIDS <{); ~ ) > And THAT'S where we're
goin NEXT, Robin, to PROVE it's the same same for
dogs as the same same for kids, usin your own
POSTED CASE HISTORY <{); ~ ) >
> Just because I need to satisfy myself that this is real,
You might wanna do what The Amazing Puppy Wizard does.
HE asks HIS Mrs. to PINCH HIM. She won't. She's NOT
GONNA HURT HIM. So The Amazing Puppy Wizard comes here.
WELCOME!
---------------------
HOWEDY janet,
Janet B wrote:
> On 11 Feb 2006 01:52:08 -0800, lucy...@claque.net, clicked their
> heels and said:
>
> > I guess it's because the vet told them not to walk
> > her where other dogs are, until she finishes having
> > her shots. Their yard is fenced and she didn't need
> > a leash there.
>
> But they DID. To teach her what a leash is all about,
> at a very young age.
>
> > Well, some other puppies older than she seem to have
> > problems in doing this growing and learning, though.
>
> Children achieve toilet training success at different ages too.
Dr. Phil uses THE SAME HOWEsbreakin technique for children
to toilet train them IN WON DAY as The Amazing Puppy Wizard
teaches HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students <{) : ~ ) >
> > So...?
So? So the PROBLEM is inapupriate training,
not defective children and dogs.
> The bed becomes an area to be kept clean
> pretty easily, as it's relatively small.
No. The bed is kept clean because the puppy is HAPPY.
> The whole floor area is usually a very different story.
That's NOT TRUE, janet, at least according to The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREEE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students:
From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST
> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
> > Mike
> Ok Mike which part worked for you?
It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.
Works like a charm.
My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.
Sorry that slipped my mind.
I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.
Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.
Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.
Seemed he learned through osmosis.
Nice side benefit there.
It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.
I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.
I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.
I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.
Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.
Mike
> Keeping a puppy in their bed (whether it's shared
> with owners or not) is successful.
ONLY because the puppy is HAPPY, janet.
> >. And she wanted to sleep with her humans.
> Of course she did! But that isn't always possible, practical, etc.
Right. HOWEver, that's IRRELEVENT, janet, if you know HOWE to
pupperly handle and train the puppy you can DO ANY THING YOU LIKE.
> > Because it's not correct. You crate your dogs in order to prevent them
> > from going OUT; this puppy could go out whenever she wanted, but she
> > knew she couldn't get IN again, on her own. Besides, if she wanted to
> > go pee, all she had to do was wake up her humans. But she didn't do that.
>
> What do you think a crated puppy has to do?
Your puppy Franklin cried barked whined and screamed for
three solid weeks while you was HOWEsbreakin IT JUST LIKE
HOWE bizby40's dog done, janet. She had to sleep in another
room with her pup so her husband didn't throw them both HOWET.
Same same for "bringmewater' and many other posters with puppy
crate training problems, REMEMBER janet?
> The bedtime crate, for the most part, encourages
> sleep as the activity of the night.
Sez you, janet? Most puppys PAINICK when locked in a box.
> If a puppy needs to pee, all they have to do is wake the human.
That'll train the puppy to cry to go HOWET. Then the puppy is
IGNORED or jerked and choked and shocked and sprayed in the
face with aversives till IT is quiet again.
LIKE THIS:
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on
and pass it through the crate door. Attach a
line to it. When he barks, use the line for a
correction.- if necessary, go to a citronella
bark collar," Lynn K.
"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.
<except when it is>
"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.
<except when it is>
"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.
Then the puppy becomes deathly chronically ill from stress
nduced auto-immune DIS-EASES aka The Puppy Wizard's Syndrome
like your own dogs and kats, janet <{): ~ ( >
> None of mine have.
Of curse not!:
On 6 Feb 2006 17:41:08 GMT, Mary Healey <mhhe...@iastate.edu>,
clicked their heels and said:
> Does that include tone of voice? Some tools are easier
> to ban than others.
yes - screaming banshees are told to shut up! And I
always have to remind spouses that they may NOT do the
"honey - you're supposed to be doing it like THIS"......
> >> You mean they didn't take an 8 week old puppy and leave it
> >> home all day and it behaved perfectly? How shocking!
You could train a 8 week old puppy not to destroy the
HOWEs in abHOWET two HOWERS time if you knew HOWE, janet.
> > What about a 3 months old one? Is that an age at which you recommend
> > leaving a puppy alone all day long, without "supervising, supervising,
> > supervising"?
A twelve week old puppy should be nearly fully obedience trained
and just abHOWET ready TO COMPETE for his AKC CD trials, janet.
> Nope - because it will backfire.
You mean effective non physical scientific conditioning DON'T WORK,
janet?
> Hope they have no wires or anything else dangerous.
Oh, you mean STUFF like SOCKS and your FILTHY UNDIES, janet?
> > Or maybe your memory needs refreshing? Like this:
>
> > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pets.dogs.health/msg/391f4577b568077e
> > He >was crated during the morning and afternoon hours until 7 months,
> > and >then he didn't get crated anymore (kept it up through his neuter,
> > just >for consistency through surgical recovery). He wasn't crated at
> > night after 4 months, so my work schedule really did allow for a lot of
> > "me" time.>>
Well after all, THIS IS "ALL ABHOWET ME", not dog trainin and behavior.
> > It looks like THIS puppy you've had stopped being crated at night
> > AFTER he was 4 months and during the day only AFTER he was 7 months old.
EVERY THING janet sez is a LIE and can be PROVEN
SO by her own posted case history.
> Correct. I know what I've lived.
Your own dog ran HOWET in the street and got PAINCAKED by
a speeding drive whom you PAID OFF for your dog damaging
his car. Your own elderly dog COOKED in your own backyard
when YOU COULDN'T CALL HER INSIDE when you had to rush off
to work and left IT HOWEtside in 104F heat, REMEMBER janet?
> I have 2 cats as well,
Your own DEATHLY ILL kat Carey PISSES on your furniture
for which you rely on SHOCK MATS to keep her off so she
pisses on your dog's beds and ATTACKS YOU when you punish
your dogs and has been under prolonged treatment at the
neurologist for her SEIZURE LIKE behavior due to your
declawing and punishing her, REMEMBER janet?
> who got freedom to come and go in the bedroom.
BWEEEEEAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
> I didn't want to block them from that and crating
> the puppy is practical in many ways.
You mean it allHOWES you to avoid TRAINING their behaviors
which you are UNABLE TO TRAIN. THAT'S HOWE COME you got your
new RESCUE dog whom YOU CANNOT PLACE despite several potential
new owners lookin at him.. and you'll begin SHOCK COLLAR training
him THIS WEEK due to his ADVANCED LEVEL of expertly trained behavior.
> Acclimation to a crate can be a godsend.
You mean when you CANNOT TRAIN your own dogs not to destroy your HOWES.
> Yes, after 7 months old, he had daytime freedom, but not before.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESFUL
trained dogs are WORKING PROTECTION by six months of age, janet, and
conTRAIN themselves for eigh or more HOWERS daily with NO PROBLEM.
> Retriever puppies are notorious chewers
That's BULLSHIT, janet. Destructive chewing is CAUSED by
ANXXXIHOWESNESS,
not BREED or AGE or TEETHING, janet. YOUR DOGS DESTROY ANY THING THEY
CAN
REACH due to your EFFORTS to TRAIN THEM, janet.
> (although he wasn't ever in my presence or after that
> crating period) and problem prevention is just smart.
You're blown smoke up HOWER arsses, janet. If your RESCUE puppy
was WELL TRAINED after livin with you for two months HE'D HAVE
a NEW PERMENANT HOWES several weeks ago, janet.
> And as I stated in the above quoted post -
You're a pathological LIAR. REMEMBER janet?
> I wanted to get him through his neuter surgery with comfort
Surgical sexual mutilation is unnecessary inapupriate cruel
veterinary malpractice which causes shyness and aggression.
> being confined to a crate.
You lock your dogs in boxes on accHOWENT of they're HYPERACTIVE
and you can't CON-TROLL them, janet. Your own dog Frankiln nearly
killed hisself ESCAPING his crate following his INTESTINAL SURGERY
of havin swallowed your filthy undies. REMEMBER janet?
> Hope your friends don't wind up with a crate-phobic
You can train ANY dog to accept being crated in just a
few minutes if you know HOWE, janet. Dogs only object
to being crated when they're MISHANDLED IGNORED and
JERKED CHOKED SHOCKED and SPRAYED IN THE FACE with
aversives when they become AFRAID of being locked in
a box with no food water or toilet area, jante.
> house destroyer
Dogs only destroy their HOWESES when they're anXXXIHOWES
from being locked in boxes jerked choked shocked sprayed
in the face with aversives and tied to your belt and
constantly supervised to prevent bad behaviors, janet.
IT TAKES A COUPLE HOWERS TO TRAIN ANY DOG NOT TO DESTROY
HIS HOWES, janet. Dogs DO NOT DESTRUCTIVELY CHEW from
BOREDOM janet, BORED DOGS SLEEP. Dogs destructively CHEW
when they're ABUSED like HOWE YOU TEACH, janet.
> when this pup become an adolescent,
An EXXXCELLENT point, janet. There AIN'T NO SUCH THING
as this so called adolescent rebelliHOWES stage, janet.
Dogs CHALLENGE their ABUSERS when the begin to mature
usually at eight months.
From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:42:34
Subject: Re: followup to posts [Re: repost
from dog behavior science (Yahoo news group)]
Hello tail,
"2tails" <wagginta...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3B45CE19...@hotmail.com...
> Hello,
>
> I am posting a followup to my own post, because I wanted
> to clarify something for a few of the postings I've read
> in response to this.
>
> (Confused yet? I hope not....)
>
> Anyway, the real point to my repost of this message from dog
> behavior science was, not that citronella collars are necessarily
> "abusive," but that the repression of undesired behavior by using
> one (or any force method) can cause that behavior to express itself
> in another way, possibly something worse.
That's the problem, isn't it?
> Mary here says it in this way: "correction utilizing pain
> training does not teach an animal how to behave. It simply
> suppresses the behavior. The behavior will, eventually, resurface."
That's why dogs become hyperactive,
self destructive, and aggression.
> Perhaps we should take out the word "pain," since it is very
> subjective. Perhaps we only need to say "compulsion" methods.
EXACTLY.
> I thought it was interesting, considering that some on here have
> been saying the same thing as Mary.
There is never any legitimate reason to choke or shock or intimidate
a dog as part of training. Trainers who use force also kill dogs
they cannot intimidate and force enough to make them "respect their
will" as our Thugs like to think hurting dogs achieves.
> regards,
> Lisa
------------
> but I'm betting
Would you BET YOUR LIFE ON IT, janet?
> they wil
Not if they study and follow the INSTRUCTIONS in their own
FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Trainng
Method Manual:
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.
From: Hoku Beltz
To: The Puppy Wizard
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Mahalo
Aloha Jerry,
Just wanted to let you know that the surrogate toy
technique is working wonders. I have not had a
shredded sheet for over a week now. It is nice
to be able to leave the bed made and come home
to a made bed.
Your program is awesome, but you already know
that. Keep up the good work!
Hoku
Date: 2001-11-14 09:13:21 PST
"Yves Dussault" <ydussa...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3b1110ff...@news1.on.sympatico.ca...
> Hi!
> I have downloaded Wit's End Dog Training Method...
> In there there is that trick with a toy about "Separation
> anxiety surrogate toy technique."
> Anybody has tried that... I would like to give it a try with
> my GSP (German shorthair.....pointer)
> Comments? Yves Dussault
Yves,
I for one have tried it... in fact I use this all the time. I
just used it last evening while my husband and I went
out to see "The Mummy Returns" (a horrible turkey of
a movie, but at least the house wasn't chewed from
end to end in the meantime).
Yes, it really works. :-) So do the other distraction/praise
techniques described therein.
If you are interested in the manual, you will probably want to
begin the exercises as well.
Regards,
Lisa
> and I'm sure you'll not be posting about that
From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com)
Subject: House training and such...
Date: 2003-10-08 16:18:56 PST
I've been having a problem with my dog, Axel,
relieving himself in the house while I'm away
from home.
I've used TPW method's, and yesterday I was out
for 12 hours, and Axel didn't have one single "accident".
Today, I had hoped that the results would be just as
good - and they were (I was out for 11 hours).
The problem began when, as a puppy, Axel would
relieve himself in the house and I would point
at the mess and tell him "NO" or "Bad Dog".
That made him afraid to relieve himself in the house
or infront of me.
After I got TPW's training manual, I corrected my
mishandling of these instances.
When I came home to an "accident", I would simply
drop a can near the area and ask Axel "What's that?"
Then I would clean it up - with out showing him I was
the least bit upset about the mess, and when he looked
at the spot I would tell him "Good boy, you're a good dog".
This has been an ongoing problem, and thanks to the
Puppy Wizard, we've finally got it taken care of...
Also, Axel LOVES the cat's litter box...He enjoys the
"snacks" he can find in there...I followed TPW's methods
by alternating sounds and praising him while or before
he sticks his nose in it, and today, he's been going into
the room with the cat box and barking. That's because
he's thinking about getting into the box, but he knows he
shouldn't.
Thank you, Jerry, for all you help. You've been a
blessing to all of us.
AIMEE
===================
From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com):
I own a black an tan coonhound. We got him
as a puppy, and due to constant mishandling
(pulling on his lead, negative corrections, and
the occasional use of a bark collar) I ended
up with a very anxious dog.
I couldn't leave him home alone, I couldn't
crate him, I couldn't even take my dog for
walks because he feared EVERYTHING.
I was going to have to get rid of him if things
didn't turn around.
My husband and I searched the internet for
answers - AND WE FOUND THE PUPPY WIZARD.
For all of you disbeliveers out there HIS METHODS WORK!
I've followed his manual, and we now have a
dog that can be left home alone, that heels
on command, that can go outside and NOT
be afraid of everything he sees.
Not only have his methods helped our dog, but
our marriage has gotten better. We had fallen
into a rut - constant bickering and tension, we
never laughed or had FUN together - but now,
with the same mindset used in THE PUPPY
WIZARDS dog training, our communications
channels have opened, and we now work
together instead of against one another.
For all the "Literalists" out there, NO WE DID
NOT TEACH EACH OTHER TO SIT, STAY,
OR HEEL.
We simply eliminated the nagging and the acting
out to get NEGATIVE attention from one another
since we weren't getting the POSITIVE attention
we wanted.
So, it's been proven - THE PUPPY WIZARDS
METHODS WORK.
It's up to you to accept them. Yes, there's alot of blame
that we have to accept, but once we realize that we've
caused these problems to arise, we can strive to make
things better.
AIMEE
=================
> (or you will post some fabricated version).
You mean sumpthin like THIS?:
"Alpha" <sween...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:bsf69.5447$g9.1...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Well there you go, I was willing to believe but then jerry
it was another hallucination of yours, just like all those
thankyou letters you write, a lie, a fabrication, a wank...
> From: TESTA52601 (testa52...@aol.com)
> Subject: Re: Thank you Jerry Howe
> Date: 2002-03-28 10:01:34 PST
>
> Alpha,
> It's uneducated, ball breakers like you that create dismay
> throughout this society. Get a life. you took apart a letter
> from someone who has shown nothing but love and caring,
> including lots of money and twisted it to YOUR point.
>
> Ever consider politics? I challenge you to show me your
> credentials and results you come up with. The things I did
> with the dog WAS against MY wishes.
>
> However, I listen to pencil neck geeks that sit behind a
> monitor and get 30 different suggestions. This dog could
> not be happier if she was gnawing on all three of your legs.
> The bottom line to my letter was to tell people "don't knock
> it until you try it"
>
> P.S. Write me personally if you have any credentials.......
===========
> >> That your initial post was a bit, let's say "exaggerated"?
>
> > Yeah, 2 months instead of 3 months. Quite "exaggerated". So sue me.
>
> And that she had been totally housebroken the whole time!
You mean LIKE THIS?:
"JoeTheGuru" <joetheg...@hotmail.com.NOSPAM wrote in message
JERRY SAVE THIS LAD!!!!
or it could be a troll <are you a troll??
do not use it on your dog.....
would you use it on your best friend.....
I have read jerry's book, it seems too easy at first.
however I started to use some of the training out of it and now.
I have a dog that heels as fast as a collie in a
trial.<great dane X mastiff
I have a dog that stays and never leaves the spot.
I have a dog that comes when ever I call.
I have a dog that never leaves the yard, never runs away.
I have a dog that stands still to be washed
with the cold hose.
I have a dog that never pulls on
the lead when we walk.
I have a dog that puts up with more abuse then a
dog should from my 2 year old <and loves it
I have a dog that barks at the fence only when some ones there.
I have a dog that would not care less if there is
another dog in the park <only wants to be with and
please me though a lot of this is due to me training the dog
spending the time with the dog.
jerry's book showed me not to punish the dog. but
just to work with the dog. which I liked the idea of
hence why I tried it. it is easy to become
frustrated with a dog when you are trying to train
them.
I look forward to my next puppy <ban dog> so
I can use the information from jerry's book
and see just how good a dog can get.
the dog I have now was when I picked her up from
the RSPCA. she could not walk on a lead <no idea.
cowered from every noise <and wet her self, messed
in the house at every turn. acted like I was killing her
when I dragged her over to the mess.
this was A 6 month old pup that had been beaten
<2.5 feet to the shoulder. I could of taken her back
however I knew I could bring her back to being to
be a dog.
the dog I have now at 1.5 years <same dog is a dog
to be proud to walk down the street with <3 feet to
the shoulder and still growing.
so well behaved even when people walk passed with
a out of control dog. gentle with my child and trustworthy
< I never have to worry that my dog will bite her, only
have to worry if a stranger comes over to my child.
still that is not a worry, she places herself between my
child and the stranger.
I may be plugging jerry's book, however with the
crap out there it is good to see that someone has
moved forward. looked at a different way to train
dogs. yes he gets into people, and in their face
you should back off a little jerry however he is
sick of the bashing, choking, shocking, shaking
and everything else. so jerry save this lad from
ruining his dog. later, Joe
===================
> > Doesn't "schedule" imply a more rigid timetable than taking the puppy
> > out when the puppy needs to go? (OK, OK, I told them to take her out
> > when she wakes up and after her meals and after playing, so I guess
> > you're right, after all)
>
> That's scheduling, you buffoon.
If you review your own posted case history to mauijnp
you'll see that scheduling is quite more elaborate and
difficult to accomplish and often causes deathly stress
induced auto-immune DIS-EASES aka The Puppy Wizard's
Syndrome <{); ~ ) >
> > I thought the CRATE was supposed to be the puppy's den.
> > Their house is small indeed, but not the size of a crate,
> > however.
>
> You're truly an idiot.
Well janet, you're beginin to sound JUST LIKE The Amazing Puppy Wizard!
> The whole house becomes the area to respect and keep clean.
WHEN, janet? HOWE abHOWET INSTANTLY soon as people FORGET
EVERY THING you and your punk thug coward miserable lyin
dog abusing pals teach them?
LIKE THIS:
"Anthony Testa" <testa52...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:c603fe9c.02032...@posting.google.com...
> m...@bangnetcom.com (Mark Shaw) wrote in message
<news:lmWo8AeR...@panix.com>...
> > In article <c603fe9c.0203260607.77c28...@posting.google.com>,
> > testa52...@aol.com (Anthony Testa) wrote:
> > [...]
> > > Jerry, after reading some of the threads in the news group, I can't
> > > for the life of me understand why this many people are so dang blind
> > > or ignorant.
>
> > > You just keep plugging away at what you do, because you my friend are
> > > a life saver!!!
>
> > Okay, who the heck ARE you, really?
>
> Who am I? My real name is posted. The story you have read is true.
>
> We were at witts end, found Jerry's web page by happenstance, wrote to
> him almost exactly what you read, he gave me his suggestions, told me
> what my results would be including a time line and, you know what?
>
> He was and still is, right on the money.
>
> I don't care if he's a warlock, a professor, disgruntled Entomologist,
> or a man with a niche that makes the sciences itchy, he saved the day
> AND a dog's life.
>
> We were given suggestions from Medication, to a Behavioral Specialist.
>
> I decided that instead of creating a Jerry Garcia or pay 125.00 dollars
> an hour for my dog to lay on a couch to be freudiated, I decided Jerry
> Howe's method seemed to be more humane and serene. It worked, end of
> story.
>
> A. Testa
-------------------
> Some puppies see very small areas as their place to
> do that, others see a much larger space. Very individual.
That's a load of CRAP, janet.
> > But you DO recommend it to the lesser human beings than yourself.
>
> I recommend it to people having problems mostly.
You and your "student's" are the ONLY WONS havin PROBLEMS, janet.
> But I also teach a down while humans eat with one.
INDEED? Is THAT HOWE COME you need your shock collar for
the RESCUE PUPPY YOU CAN'T GIVE AWAY, janet?:
"Anthony Testa" <testa52...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:c603fe9c.02032...@posting.google.com...
I moved to Jacksonville, Florida about a year ago with my lovely wife
linda. 3 times a week for 7 months I visited the Dog shelter and
Humane Society looking for a German Shepherd. There were several times
they had a dog there, but I was looking for a bitch. The reason for
this is, all my life I have always had a female German shepherd.
Therefore, I wanted another one. Finally about 6 weeks ago, I found
her. "Angel" looked just like my previous dog of 12 years. I called m
wife, she came down and fell in love with her immediately.
We filled out the paper work and left the Humane Society with her. We
drove directly to Pet Smart to buy all the essentials. We bought the
biggest crate available. Let it be known I have never used a crate
with any of my previous dogs. The biggest difference is my other dogs
I had from puppy age. Angel just turned 2, 3 days before adoption.
Angel appeared to be happy the trip home. Her ears were down all the
time and her tail was so far between her legs that it looked like she
had 3 ears. (humor)
None the less, we knew we had a dog that was insecure.
The first night we let Angel sleep in the living room. However, we had
to go to work the next day. We pet her, kissed her and put her in the
crate in the middle of the living room. During the day, my sons came
home to walk her, give her a little loving and play with her. Then put
her back in the crate and go to work. When we got home the first day,
everything in the crate was ripped to shreds. The neighbors
approached us and said that the dogs barked constantly for 3 hours.
then barked continuously after my sons left again. We thought it was
because everything was new. We were wrong. The dig did this every day
for 4 days.
The 4th day was our first scheduled visit with the vet. The vet told
us he can see that the dog is suffering from a abuse and separation
anxiety. So, the vet puts the dog on clomicalm. (not sure of the
spelling). Well, for two days the dog walked around like Jerry Garcia
on a Friday night after a concert, stoned!
However, we were home with her the entire weekend.
We crated her for work and came home to a barking dog, ripped bedding
in the crate, upset neighbors and the plastic bottom of the crate
completely torn to bits. It was obvious that crating was not a good
thing.
The next day we decided to leave her out of the crate to see what
would happen. What a major mistake. We came home to almost $1,000 in
damage. Furniture, the blinds were all chewed and torn down, etc.
The next day we put her in the crate again. This time we came home to
a nice 2' x 3' hole in our carpet in the middle of the living room,
right down to the cement. I told my wife that we cannot afford to keep
this dog. We should go out and get a puppy. She was upset and said
there must be something we can do. I told her this. " I will go on the
internet and see what is available". I was desperate and wanted to see
if there was someone who could help.
We read the information about the DDR and emailed Jerry. Jerry was
kind enough to give us his phone number to discuss Angel in more
detail. First, at no cost he sent us his manual. We started doing
exactly what he said to do in the manual. Exactly as we did was was
written, the results were exactly as he said it would be. Then we
purchased the DDR. This is an amazing god send to us. First of all,
Jerry sent it to us without paying. (thanks for that gesture)
This has such and AMAZING effect. This testimonial is kind of=d of
winded so I will say this......Jerry's product literally saved this
dogs life.
Angel can be left alone during the day. NO CRATE. The dog shows
absolutely no sign of anxiety at all. Jerry told us the product works
immediately and it did! She does not bark at all during the day except
when the mailman drops mail into the slot on the door. The manual for
training works exactly as it says!
We told our vet about this and he said that there are all kind of
gimmicks. I told my vet that as a person who holds a degree of higher
education, there just are some things they don't have in the text
books and he should be receptive to that. We are proof. Angel was one
day from going back to the humane society.
Listen to this...My wife wrote one of the so called know it all of
pets. His response to the exact letter we initially wrote to
Jerry..."Get rid of the dog, bring her back" I'll save this person
embarrassment by not saying the name. However, you know who you are
and I have this to say to you. Go pump gas or bus tables because you
sir, do not belong working with animals!
Jerry, after reading some of the threads in the news group, I can't
for the life of me understand why this many people are so dang blind
or ignorant.
You just keep plugging away at what you do, because
you my friend are a life saver!!!
Anytime you need someone to speak about the results of your
product, you have my number. We would gladly talk to them.
Thank you very much for all your help. God bless you...
Anthony & Linda Testa
Jacksonville, Florida
--
> Janet B
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
> http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album
Hello William,
William Robb wrote:
> I have a dog in my new class who is displaying some fairly
> disturbing behaviour. He is more or less fine with his male
> master, though a bit dog aggressive.
As a professor of behavioral analysis and dog lover having suffered the
slings and arrows of Jerry Howe, The Puppy Wizard's vile disposition
and cutting, cruel remarks and having not thoroughly read nor
understood
the complexity of his free manual, this was the first analysis:
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),
--Marshall
Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"
However, the only reasonable conclusion after six years of
observations of his student's reported consistent case history
data is that Mr. Howe has the fastest, gentlest, most effective
scientific methods of behavior modification which are effective
for all mammals, far superior than even to those taught in
university behavioral degree programs:
From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
> I write this off to lack of experience with other
> dogs, he doesn't seem to get out much.
As Mr. Howe and Pavlov would agree, such considerations are irrelevent.
> The disturbing behaviour manifests when the fellows girlfriend is
> attempting to hande him.
As Mr. Howe frequently states, 'any behavior that is consitent,
repeatable
or predictable is easy to extinguish, modify or put on cue nearly
instantly'.
> He growls fairly continuously, and acts in a fairly threatening
> manner towards *her*, unless something has his attention.
Mr. Howe would sincerely praise that dog non physically "as an
attention
getting device" to change his state of mind and achieve a sense of calm
and trust.
> Apparently, this behaviour has been escalating for
> some time, which is why they are now taking classes.
As Mr. Howe's students report, age or duration of disturbed behavior is
irrelevent.
> I am of the opinion that the dog is very close to losing his bit inhibition,
Mr. Howe believes dogs are innately born with so called bite inhibition
and
you'd have to agree that even derranged dogs do not bite impenetrable
objects hard enough to break their teeth unless they think they can
chew
through them.
> as are the other trainers who have witnessed this fellows behaviour.
Many of Mr. Howe's students report having worked with three, four,
or five trainers and university trained behaviorists with no success
till they tried his ridiculously simple praise and distraction and
non physical pavlovian conditioning techniques which he teaches for
free out of the goodness of his cold cruel heart. Indeed, it seems
as though every life form has at least some redeeming value.
> he is definitely pushing the girl around hard, and she
> is quite terrified of him, I think with good reason.
In behvioral analysis terms that may be a symbiotic self
perpetuating phobic response, or "caused by mishandling"
as Mr. Howe would call it.
> He is definetly dominant with a mean streak about him.
That would be antithetical to the premises upon which Mr.
Howe has based his life's work and proven successfully
here on his forums using random subjects from all over
the world with all forms of aggression and every other
pathological behavior problem often considered "uncurable".
Mr. Howe believes there is only one form of, one cause of
aggression and judging by the case history data, that appears
to be correct, yet again dealing a blow to university behavioral
teachings.
> He is a LabX, so is a sizable animal.
Once again, Mr. Howe believes "a dog is a dog" and again,
proves it by means of his free students consistent reported
case history data.
> I have indicated that she should not be left alone with the dog,
Mr. Howe states clearly that any behavior which is avoided,
ignored, bribes or repressed will only get worse or change
to other, often worse, seemingly non related behaviors as
anxiety relief mechanisms or transfer behaviors.
> or attempt to handle the dog by herself,
Mr Howe would state that to do so would subvert her ability
to teach the dog self control and trust and would subvert her
training success by subordinating them both to a controller.
> and am tempted to recommend they destroy the animal.
Mr. Howe would consider that an abomination, "criminally
insane", if I recall exactly how he states it.
> This is a most distressing situation,
Mr. Howe would say this is an easy dog to train if the handler
simply releases all physical control and conditions the dog to
praise in advance, brief variably alternating non physical
distraction instantly followed by prolonged non physical praise
(5-15 secons) techniques and unconditional love trust and respect.
> the second last thing I want to do is tell them they should
> euthenize their dog, but the last thing i want is for the
> dog to hurt someone.
Mr. Howe's successful students from all over the world report
rehabilitating dogs far more dangerous and aggressive to many
more stimulie than this, nearly instantly and consistently, so
therefore perhaps you should take heed and study his free manual.
After all, it's free, fast, easy, and if it fails you've got
nothing to lose but a few minutes of study which may prove
effective in subsequent situations.
> Comments other than that we are all a bunch of abusers
> and should buy the puppy devil's video are appreciated.
The Pavlovian conditioning Mr. Howe teaches begins with a
bonding exercise to teach the dog he will not be subject
to corrections of any sort. He calls this his "Hot And Cold"
exercise. You just stand still on a six foot lead and praise
the dog every time he thinks or looks or moves toward you
and instantly release any tension on his collar till he
settles and relaxes next to you. This usually takes just
two minutes but may require a couple of considerably longer
periods initially, maybe a half hour for a very hyperactive /
fearful dog.
Then you take a walk to establish a "home base".. The "walk"
is done on a 20' line in a 20' square, praising the dog for
every move or glance towards you to condition the subject to
the area which will be used later in this what Mr. Howe calls
his "Family Pack Leadership Exercise" whereby you install the
conditional reflex to the come command. The particulars of this
conditioning are precise and often are installed in as few as
ten minutes.
Then you repeat these preliminary exercises four times in the
same location till you've got the dog trained to a conditional
reflex to come under any circumstances / distraction. Then you
repeat the simple exercises four times in three additional
locations and you've got 100% total non physical control whereby
you may successfully address all behavior problems in just a few
minutes of easy gentle scientific conditioning.
> Thanks
I sincerely hope the above explanation is accurate as I have
not referred to the text for this brief overview. I'd recommend
you give it a good study on your own and practice the techniques
without the dog nearby till you've got the sense for the timing
tone and tempo, the basis for all non physical conditioning.
> William Robb
Wishing you the best of luck...
> Thats william two underscores robb at accesscomm.ca
As we live and learn, time heels all wounds, doesn't it:
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: JUMPING / MOUTHING On PEOPLE (Ninnyboy)
Date: 2001-08-14 17:15:25 PST
In article <2e501ccd.0108141341.7f18d...@posting.google.com>
mattburns...@yahoo.com (Matthew Burnside) writes:
Dear Matt:
Many have offered Jerry constructive advice but Jerry
has failed to profit from it.
My sincere advice is to filter out Jerry's posts.
--Marshall
PS: I have put "Ninnyboy" in the header for many of us filter
posts with this term. The term indicates that the post
is about Jerry.
_____________________________________________________________
I have read rpdb for about five years. Consequently, I urge newbies to
attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb regulars from whom I
have
learned much. They include: Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl, Diane
Blackman, jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy
Holmes,
Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore,
Robin
Nuttall, Denna Pace, John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith,
Jane
Webb, and Terri Willis.
Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis
Specialty/
Department of Psychology/University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee/
Milwaukee, WI 53201
der...@uwm.edu http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me. But if I am only for
myself, what am I?" _The Talmud_
-----------------------------------------------------
Oh, bye the bye janet, The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ YOU CAN'T
POST HERE abHOWETS nodoGdameneDMOORE. REMEMBER NHOWE, janet?
"A cheerful heart is good medicine,
but a crushed spirit dries up the bones".
Proverbs 17:22
Blessed are all who take refuge in HIM.
Jerry 21 And unto this people thou shalt say,
Thus saith the LORD Of DOG;
Behold, I set before you
The Way Of Life,
And
The Way Of Death.
And Disciple Paulie said unto them, Thus shall ye
say to your master, Thus saith The LORD Of DOG,
Be not afraid of the words which thou hast heard,
with which the servants of koehler and university
trained behaviorists and veterinary malpracticioners
have blasphemed me.
Disciple Paulie Sez:
"No One Understands How Wits End Training Really
Works, They Assume It's All Nicey Nicey And don't
Realise It's A Very Disciplined Method That Deals With
Any Situation And The Foundation Is Built On Trust
And Understanding.
I've never forced my dogs to do anything, I tell them
they are good dogs and they seem to follow me, once
I told them they were bad dogs and they ran away from
me, now I only ever tell them they are good dogs and
they always are, always.
Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and say "good
dog" sincerely at the end of the request and I bet you'll
find your dog thinking then responding everytime.
A bit of respect works wonders, the same rule applies
to every aspect of the relationship with your dog.
Obedience and affection are not related, if they were
everyone would have obedient dogs.
I have found giving dogs "payment" in advance i.e. "Sam
sit goodboy" makes the dogs want to respond, after all,
all dogs want to be "good dogs" and if you tell them they
are good then they feel an obligation to obey your request.
Telling Sam he's a good dog AFTER he sit's apart from
been too late is also a gamble because if he doesn't
sit then there's no positive interaction.
Paul
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,
and the daughter against her mother,
the daughter in law against her mother in law
and the scholar against his professors.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own HOWEshold."
The Puppy Prophet <{); ~ ) >
All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.
Yours,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092
The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?
,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizard. <{YPW) ; ~ } >
oo-oo
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(((' (((-((('' ((((
|\ _.-'~~""'~`'~)
/, ~-,__,,,.'~ ,-;;--''
|,4) ./ ' ; ;/'
'-~~;'@ ( ; ;
_.--'' _.-_..' .;.'
(,_..----''' (,..--''
Meow
/\_/\
(='.'=)
(")_(")
/),,/)
( ' ; ') kiss me
(,,)-(,,)
/),,/)
(' ; ') kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)
/),,/)
( ; ' ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)
/),,/)
( ; ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)
/)
( * ) and KISS ME HERE!
(,,)-(,,)
The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~
:{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.
IT AIN'T PRETTY.
<(@}; ~ } >
iantw...@gmail.com
Poisoning? You're worried all of our dog's enemies will poison it? Or
that it will eat enough dirt that it will eat something wierd? Or..?
Torment? Worried that she'll be tormented in our backyard? Or maybe
that she won't be able to get out of the fence, and will be tormented.
Or that she won't be able to find me? How is locking her in a crate
for hours at a time a better solution?
Theft? I suppose it is possible that someone would steal her, but it
is unlikely in my community, and the number of dogs around.
The dog won't be able to escape from the back yard, and won't have to
worry about things like eating plants, the dog house (once i fix it),
or garden implements, as they either don't exist or are harmless (the
dog house).
The only possible issues I'll have are digging in the back yard (and
this won't be a big issue), chewing on the siding - unlikely in my
opinion, and chewing on the fence.
You're right that is is hard to be truly secure and safe from outside
influences and injury from any number of things, but you could say the
same thing about anything.
TheSimplyAmaz...@hotmail.com
active acute chronic long term incurable mental case
and professional dog training FRAUD,
Janet B wrote:
> On 10 Apr 2006 12:07:35 -0700, iantw...@gmail.com, clicked their
> heels and said:
>
> > The consensus on here is that I leave my dog
> > in a crate when I leavefor work (8-9 hours)?
>
> Not quite.
RIGHT. He FORGOT abHOWET the additional 8-9 HOWERS at night.
> He'll need you or a petsitter to come midday.
That's nice. Perhaps you can RECOMMEND someWON like
YOUR PARTNER sinofabitch to walk his dog for him?
> > cobbled them together,
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
> > and a fake signature.
"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
That so?
> > is downright meaningless.
Here's yours:
See?
> Not only does he need to go out,
The puppy can be paper trained till he's able to
CONTRAIN hisself at 8 weeks of age, janet:
Works like a charm.
Nice side benefit there.
Mike
-------------
> but he should be fed 4x/day until 3 months,
Or he could FREE FEED his puppy if he's givin IT
commercial garbage dog food <{): ~ ) >
> and 3x/day until 6 months (2x/day thereafter).
The QUESTION was abHOWET leavin the dog HOWET in
the yard so IT don't SUFFOCATE inside his apartment.
> > As opposed to the securely fenced backyard in my
> > house? Could someone explain why that is a bad idea?
>
> Poisoning,
You ever heard of POISON PROOFIN, janet?
REMEMBER janet?
> torment,
THAT'S HOWE COME he'd built a nice secure dog HOWES.
> theft,
By six months the pup will be able to PROTECT HISSELF
so long as IT AIN'T AFRAID of being jerked choked an
shocked like your hyperactive submissive dogs.
> eating things like the dog house, rocks, siding,
> downspouts, garden implements, plants,
Your own dog nearly DIED from swallowin your filthy undies.
> digging to china,
Diggin is a anXXXIHOWESNESS relief mechanism, janet.
Diggin can be EXXXTINGUISHED NEARLY INSTANTLY if we
simply DO EVERY THING EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE
of HOWE you and your lyin dog abusing punk thug coward
active acute chronic long term incurable mental case
pals do, janet <{); ~ ) >
> barking and crying and annoying the neighbors,
Dogs bark when they're AFRAID. ALL FEAR IS CAUSED
BY MISHANDLING like jerkin chokin shockin an lockin
dogs in boxes, janet.
> possible escape -
Like your own dog who ESCAPED your fence and
got PAINCAKED under the wheels of a passin car.
> the list goes on and on.
Yeah. His dog MIGHT COOK in the heat like your own
DEAD DOG done when you couldn't get IT to come inside
and you had to go to work.
REMEMBER janet?
> > If this is to train the dog, and a temporary thing,
Yeah, temporary for a few years. Like janet's dog Rudy
who is 10 months old and STILL LOCKED IN A BOX after
four months of janet's "trainin".
> > then I can understand that. Butif anything else,
> > then I'd love to hear the reasoning.
>
> See above.
BWEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
> It's pretty hard to be truly secure and safe from
> outside influences and injury from any number of things.
Seems your own dogs only gotta WORRY abHOWET YOU, janet.
HOWEDY janet you miserable lyin dog abusing mental
case and professional dog training FRAUD <{): ~ ) >
Janet B wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:06:10 -0500, "sassygirl"
> <dby...@telus.net>, clicked their heels and said:
>
> > i have decided i need to crate my puppy whiel i am gone to work,
Well, just like HOWE you do with your new dog Rudy, eh janet?
> > as she is eating stuff that is unsafe for her.
JUST LIKE HOWE your own dog Franklin nearly DIED and had
intestinal surgery for swallowin your filthy undies.
> > she is about 8 mos old weighs 70lbs, and will be
> > in it for about 5 hours, also is it best to leave
> > stuff like her kong and raw hide in there for her
> > so she is not so bored.
That's ridiculHOWES. Destructive separation anXXXIHOWESNESS
is CAUSED BY MISHANDLING not separation or absences <{):~ ) >
> Yes, leave her kong.
That's generHOWES of you, janet.
> I don't like rawhide and think it's a choking hazard.
Yeah, but chokin AIN'T the real dangerHOWES part janet,
salmonella poisoning and toxic metals are in some of them.
> Don't leave anything in there that she can destroy.
Dogs only destroy their HOWESES when they're UPSET, janet.
> Her collar should be removed before you put her in
> the crate, and I always crate reward after the dog
> goes in.
Yeah. That's idiocy, janet.
> If you have never crate trained her,
Your own dog Franklin cried whined and barked for
three straight weeks when you "CRATE TRAINED" him.
> it would be a good idea to start crating her at night
> on a Friday night, and at random intervals over the
> weekend, so she can acclimate to it.
You mean by SHEER LUCK, janet?
> There are a lot of benefits to crate training,
That's absurd janet. In more than forty years of
specializing in temperament and behavior problems
and protection training The Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizard has NEVER told even WON of HIS Students
to lock their dogs in a box and ignore their cries
or punish them.
LIKE THIS:
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to
it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar," Lynn K.
"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.
<except when it is>
"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.
<except when it is>
"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.
--------------------
> but it can be more difficult for them to adjust
> to the confinement, the older they are.
THAT'S INSANE janet.
You can CURE separation anXXXIHOWESNESS IN WON DAY
if you STUDY your own FREE COPY of The Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard's FREE 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual and DO ALL the EXXXORICSES PARTICULARLY The
Amazing Puppy Wizard's NON PHYSCIAL C-HOWENTER
CONditioning and DESENSITIZATION Technique aka The
Amazing Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy Separation
AnXXXIHOWESNESS / Bed Time Calming / Fear Of Thunder /
Car Sickness / Submissive Urination / Obsessive Compulsive
Masturbation / Chronic Urinary Tract / Bladder / Irritable
BHOWEL / Obsessive Compulsive Marking / Spraying / Defecating
Syndrome Technique <{); ~ ) >
> Get the largest crate you can fit in the area
> of your home where you plan to have it.
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!:
From: "LESPERANCE/DEAKIN" <madea...@total.net>
Date: 1999/10/06
Subject: Re: Separation Anxiety
Well Jerry, I have to hand it to you. It worked!
Our dog was very well behaved until I had to go on the
road for my work this summer. I was gone twice for 10
long days each time. Although there were still people
home, I am the "primary care-giver" to my dog, so he
became destructive (shoes, books, rugs, papers etc)
We have a crate, but I believe it is too small for him
now - he is a cross golden/gsd and when he sits or stands
he cannot hold his head up as the top is too low, so I
didn't want to crate him while I went to work for sometimes
8 hours.
Anyway, I decided to try your method with the toy.
I would find a toy, tell it to be good and place it in
his crate. After just 3 days, there was no more destruction
in the house - even when daughter or hubby forgot to put
their shoes away! Now the toy stays in the crate all day,
and he even crawls in to be with the "good toy" when I leave.
He seems quite proud when we come home.
I have not tried the can thing - don't quite understand
that, so I think my dog may be confused too!
Marcie (Winslow's mom)
-------------
> The last time I worked a regular day job, I had a
> 48" long crate for a Golden Retriever puppy. I
> currently use a 42" crate for a 58# Golden puppy
> (aka "Jaws").
IOW, YOUR OWN DOG GOT THE SAME PROBLEM AND YOU CAN'T FIX IT.
HERE'S HOWE COME:
"Nope - don't believe in kicking. But I do use a
variety of collars when training dogs. I'm not a
big fan of CHAIN chokes, because I don't find them
easy to fit properly. I prefer nylon slip collars
in general, will never connect a leash to a buckle
ID collar, and find prong collars to be very, very
useful training tools.
Rudy is going to start learning the e-collar this week.
I'm sure you'll NOT hear screams from across the pond.
--
------------------
Subject: Who's Running The Asylum? <{) ; ~ ) >
From: Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory
From: "BarbnBeau" <bdea...@cogeco.ca>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 02:12:48 -0500
Subject: New to this Group..Heaven Help me Now!
I have in my opinion the cutest little pal named Beau.
A gift from a customer he is 8 months old now, (he was a
single pup from 8 lbs parents) 13 lbs now a miniature poodle/
neutered/ apricot-blonde with cinnamon ears and big warm brown
eyes. I was hoping he might finish at about 10 lbs but it's too
late to send him back... he has my heart now!
We live in a two storey Apt building so it is imperative we
are both quiet and well behaved. Beau and I started training
each other (together) right at eight weeks. Potty training,
bathing, grooming and behavior ( ok Obedience)
We were pretty lucky, when I went to work friends downstairs
babysat him and the potty training and behavior training
continued just as I would do.
Beau was doing great then we had to make some changes as my
friends moved away and Beau along with our cat Buttons were
going to have to spend more time alone!:(
Luckily I work for the local pharmacy and deliver medication
to long term care patients all over our county, and work 3-9pm
so am home the rest of the day. When our friends announced they
were moving I started leaving Beau alone for short periods of
time and gradually upping the length of time to 3 hours or so.
Wow I must have done something right, I would go to work,
pop home pick him up, he would ride with me for a couple
of hours then back home and I would return an hour and a
half later. He was doing so well training on and off lead
and paying attention to hand commands too....up until three
weeks ago!!
Now this wonderful teenager is exhibiting separation
anxiety.... ugh. Lets see, he has eaten buttons off
one of my coats, and a pair of boots. He has chewed
his harness and the clip off his lead, destroyed a
pair of my socks, tore up newspaper, gift wrap and
shredded some cardboard boxes .... yikes must be
the water or he is possessed?( just kidding)
That is when I joined this newsgroup... and have read
every post, all in hopes of finding someone with more
knowledge and experience than me. I wanted to nip this
behavior in the bud as they say.
I found some very bright dog training professionals,
many of whom had differing opinions and methods of
training.... ALL OF WHOM PLACE LITTLE OR NO VALUE ON
EACH OTHER'S SKILL AND OR OPINION....ALL SEEM TO HAVE
FORGOTTEN THE LESSONS AND SOCIAL SKILLS, WE ALL LEARNED
IN KINDERGARTEN!!
It is very sad ....( and this is where I make it to file
13...Delete..or some other bin..this never happens if you
remain quiet:))
Yep, one of these very clever, but not always pleasant
to others is "The Puppy Wizard" Jerry Howe...
I went to his site, read and reread Wits End Dog Training
Manual more than a few times. Having confidence in what I
have already accomplished with Beau I decide to try something
a little different. I opened myself up to change and tried
Mr. Howe's training method.... WELL LIKE IT OR NOT..... HIS
METHODS WORK! for me.
If I have to throw down a set of keys for noise in conjunction
with a command ( it's all I had in my hand at the time) and my
dog jumps to complete the requested task.... immediately, and
completely tuned into me.... Now that got my attention!
I assume most in here are adults, Please excuse the childish
behavior and look past it all, read everything of value and
decide for yourself .
Listen to what many of these talented people have to say...
try some of their approaches and use what works best for you
and your dog!! No one has to take poop ... ok crap from anyone
else.
Wow I finally said it ...
Good Luck, and Happy Training All,
Barb
"Janet" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1106264154.2...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> ALL OF WHOM PLACE LITTLE OR NO VALUE ON EACH OTHER'S SKILL AND
> OR OPINION....ALL SEEM TO HAVE FORGOTTEN THE LESSONS AND SOCIAL
> SKILLS, WE ALL LEARNED IN KINDERGARTEN!!
> Welcome Barb!
> Unfortunately, you're off the mark here. Many of us here
> have friendly disagreements. We vary in our methods, our
> breeds, our activities. We may good naturedly (and sometimes
> not) give each other a hard time about something.
> Some folks flit in and disappear quickly as well, some of
> us are long timers and consider others our friends, even
> if we don't always agree.
> Your "wonder trainer" is the exception.
> Quite bluntly, he's whacko.
> His ideas are not his own (well, spiking a dog's temp and
> causing diarrhea hopefully is!), and he really is someone
> in need of professional help.
> There is nothing professional or even congenial about him
> in any way. Every once in awhile, he seems to find an ummmmm
> "follower" to post his glorys. Lovely - glad whatever works,
> works for you.
> Don't think it's unique, don't think he deserves to be out
> of anyone's killfiles. He's there for a reason.
> The rest of us? Agree to disagree, have heated
> discussions, and act like normal people.
> If you "opened yourself up" to PW methods, perhaps
> you can open yourself up to sanity and good conversation
> as well.
LIKE THIS:
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
---------
----------
----------
HOWEDY janet,
> Scream? no
> Choke? no
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
"Reliable Punishment Cycles, Different Thresholds To Pain
And Punishment, High Tolerance For Correction, Escalation
Of Correction To A Level Where The Dog Yelps When You Punish
Him, Thus Making The Experience One Which The Dog Will Want
To Avoid In The Future," grant teeboon, RAAF.
captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.
news:uohnj3r...@corp.supernews.com...
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63...@4ax.com...
Sally Hennessey
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv...@4ax.com...
Sally Hennessey
> > cobbled them together,
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
> > and a fake signature.
"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
That so?
> > is downright meaningless.
Here's yours:
See?
From: "BarbnBeau" <bdea...@cogeco.ca>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 06:45:09 -0500
Subject: Re: New to this Group..Heaven Help me Now!
Hello Janet,
Thank you for the welcome.
It may well be that "I am off the mark" and I certainly
appreciate there are is always room for friendly, good
natured disagreements. As a matter of fact you are welcome
to completely disagree with me at anytime...I generally
just appreciate politeness and don't find it necessary
to be rude and crude to make a point.
I don't have a trainer..or "wonder trainer" and you are
quite correct PW has acted like a jerk in some of his
rude and crude postings as well. I don't know the man
and have not communicated with him. Many of us from time
to time have acted inappropriately or as a total jerk...
doesn't alwaysmean we are one.
He may not even have written the manual, but somebody
did .... and call me foolish but without yelling,
reprimand or a negative approach on my part, my little
guy has turned some not so great behavior around.
I am so pleased with the changes I could have a parade...
well maybe just cake and balloons:):)
It would be my pleasure to be open and look forward to
sanity, and good conversation anywhere, anytime! After
re reading my post.. it appears I tarred everyone with
the same brush and that was not my intention as only a
few came across in a demeaning manner.
Thanks for helping me see that.
Cheers,
Barb
From: "BarbnBeau" <bdea...@cogeco.ca>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 05:56:21 -0500
Subject: Re: New to this Group..Heaven Help me Now! [ninnyboy] [jerry]
Gees.... I feel like I just flew over the cuckoo's nest OR
perhaps gained access to the asylum :))(smiling)
I must admit I am thoroughly amused, I never imagined one single
little post expressing a newcomers point of view or perspective
would prove to be so controversial and threatening.
* Jerry, I assume that is you, sharing archives of conversations
well ahead of my posting, or time I may have spent here..WTMI
(way to much information) I truly have no interest in that war
of words, your manual makes much more sense and is of far greater
value.
Imagine I could have just sat here and read, put my hands in my
pocket and never let my fingers loose on the keyboard... but oh
no not this Canuk.( these blonde moments of mine do take a toll -sigh)
The first thing I did was RTFM (read the frigging manual) "Wits End Dog
Training Manual."
The second thing I did was comment on the fact that "it was
working for me and more importantly Beau..my dog"
Upon reflection I could have been more tactful expressing my view
on some of the comments folks make to each other here.
What's that quote: "Tact, the ability to describe others as
they see themselves."
Strange how easy it seems to be to make smart ass comments...
to anyone, but not so easy to look at ourselves.
Not so easy to look in the mirror and question or admit error
about self, choose to change self's approach, or learn a new lesson.
There have been too many times in my life, I stayed silent, not
stood up for what was right or wrong.... heck people like silence
so much better, it's so none threatening to everyone.
It also shouts acceptance!
Who is Jerry "The Puppy Wizard" don't know him only know of
him, I have never talked or typed to him personally.
Aristotle thought,"There was never a genius without
a tincture of madness."
Is Jerry a "wonder trainer"? Could be.
Does he express himself HERE tactfully?
Nope... doesn't seem to play nice with people.
Is he a Whacko or Savant? hmmm haven't a clue, perhaps
he runs the asylum, and frankly I don't give a damn!
As Abraham Lincoln once said "Whatever you are, be a
good one." He has a method, a systematic humane approach,
he wrote and shares a fine piece of work in the form of
a manual.
I have read, tried and worked the system as written...
(ok breathe everyone or close your eyes for the rest..)
IT WORKS!!.... imagine that.
"The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real
thing." You are welcome to put me in "killfiles" or forward
a scarlet letter, perhaps just a rock around my neck.. whatever.
"You have to do your own growing, no matter how tall your
grandfather was." I will attempt to contact Jerry privately
for any further help..perhaps he will answer, perhaps not.
He has helped me get Beau's undivided attention,
and get to his heart, and that is more than I
could possibly repay!
My truth, my thoughts in black and white, imagine ..
"Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work"
Do bullets travel as an attachment? Just thought I'd ask:):)
Cheers All
Barb n Beau
"Unsurreality" <unsurreal...@netzoola.com> wrote in message
news:1106341024.6...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> b...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> HOWEDY janet,
>> >From: "Janet" <j1b...@aol.com>
>> >Date: 20 Jan 2005 15:35:54 -0800
>> >Subject: Re: New to this Group..Heaven Help me Now!
>> > >ALL OF WHOM PLACE LITTLE OR NO VALUE ON EACH OTHER'S SKILL
>> janet and her pals shock choke bribe crate intimidate
>> and murder dogs and LIE abHOWET it:
> This coming from the same idiot who says if a dog's temp
> goes above 102.5 take it to the vet, yet spikes dogs' temps
> to 106.
> You figure out who's insane.
> I don't shock, bribe or crate train, so who is this
> imbecile talking about?
> Pat
HERE'S "pat aka mikey dufort aka unsurreality":
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "CourteHOWES Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"
> thanks.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
"Sometimes my "voice of god" startles human
and dog, especially when the human didn't
see the inappropriate behaviour," --Matt.
Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
--Matt
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"dallygirl" <kwickw...@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
> causing more harm than good.
Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.
It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Oh, bye the bye, you can't post here abHOWETS nodoGdamenedMOORE <{): ~
) >
The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >
Janet B
heels and said:
>Feed the dog 4x a day? Does anyone actually do that?
<3 month old puppies? You bet. You DO know you're getting a PUPPY,
right? And that s/her has physical needs?
>Poisoning? You're worried all of our dog's enemies will poison it? Or
>that it will eat enough dirt that it will eat something wierd? Or..?
You'd be amazed at some of the "nice" neighborhoods where weird stuff
happens. And yes, there are rock eaters and that can kill a
puppy/dog. Dogs can do weird things when they're bored. Have you HAD
a dog before?
>Torment? Worried that she'll be tormented in our backyard?
Cats, kids, you name it.
>Or maybe
>that she won't be able to get out of the fence, and will be tormented.
>Or that she won't be able to find me? How is locking her in a crate
>for hours at a time a better solution?>>
Crate training has many advantages, one being that it's indoors.
"locking her in a crate for hours at a time" is a way of putting it to
make it sound awful, or "safely confining in a crate for periods of
time", which is reasonable, safe, humane, and generally, a good idea.
There are many benefits to crate training. Where will she be
overnight?
>Theft? I suppose it is possible that someone would steal her, but it
>is unlikely in my community, and the number of dogs around.
Once again, you'd be surprised. If you think your community is not at
risk, you are wrong.
>The dog won't be able to escape from the back yard,
What kind of structure do you have around the yard?
> and won't have to
>worry about things like eating plants, the dog house (once i fix it),
>or garden implements, as they either don't exist or are harmless (the
>dog house).
Sounds like a fun yard!
>The only possible issues I'll have are digging in the back yard (and
>this won't be a big issue),
How do you know that?
> chewing on the siding - unlikely in my
>opinion, and chewing on the fence.
Have you HAD a lab puppy before?
>You're right that is is hard to be truly secure and safe from outside
>influences and injury from any number of things, but you could say the
>same thing about anything.
True. But lab pups are notorious for chewing and finding things to do
when they're bored. If you're working all day and not coming home,
that means she isn't getting any interaction, training, or exercise
all day. Hope you're planning on a lot once home, but that won't stop
her from getting bored and destructive during the day.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
iantw...@gmail.com
right? And that s/her has physical needs?"
authority on what type of food, how often, meal size, etc, before I get
the dog.
"You'd be amazed at some of the "nice" neighborhoods where weird stuff
happens. And yes, there are rock eaters and that can kill a
puppy/dog. Dogs can do weird things when they're bored. Have you HAD
a dog before?"
-If you're inferring that I shouldn't be shocked or appalled if someone
poisons my dog, then you're way off base. If you're inferring that it
is a reasonable risk that someone will poison my dog, then again,
you're way off base. Yes, I've had a dog. Yes, I've had a puppy, why
the attitude?
"Crate training has many advantages, one being that it's indoors.
"locking her in a crate for hours at a time" is a way of putting it to
make it sound awful, or "safely confining in a crate for periods of
time", which is reasonable, safe, humane, and generally, a good idea.
There are many benefits to crate training. Where will she be
overnight?"
-I'm going to put her in the laundry machine overnight, where she can't
get out or cause trouble. Kidding, she'll be in a crate overnight.
What dog wouldn't want to be outside in a secure safe yard as opposed
to in a crate.
"Once again, you'd be surprised. If you think your community is not at
risk, you are wrong."
-Every community is "at risk" for dog theft, but I'm not going to leave
my puppy in a crate for fear of being stolen. Once again, I WON'T be
surprised that things like dog theft happen. Again, I'm not sure why
you have the arrogant attitude about what you know and I don't.
"What kind of structure do you have around the yard?"
-A 6 foot fence with a dig proof barrier around the bottom.
"Sounds like a fun yard!"
-It will be for a puppy. Didn't realize this was the landscaping
forum. Don't worry though, you won't have to come by and look at my
mostly boring yard.
"How do you know that? Have you HAD a lab puppy before?"
-Because there is nothing else in my yard. I have had a puppy, not a
lab puppy. Why the attitude again? Why are you arguing things like
what I have in my yard when you don't know anything about it, and I've
repeated that there isn't anything else to mess up in the yard several
times now.
"But lab pups are notorious for chewing and finding things to do
when they're bored. If you're working all day and not coming home,
that means she isn't getting any interaction, training, or exercise
all day. Hope you're planning on a lot once home, but that won't stop
her from getting bored and destructive during the day."
-She'll be getting plenty of attention at night of course, and some
during lunch during the week, hopefully every day. We also have a rat
terrier, which will be outside with the lab during the day.
I'm fine with getting tips and advice from people, but absolutely can't
stand the arrogance and attitude I get sometimes. You're representing
a website, and a business I assume, why not be a little more modest
with your advice, and less assuming and attacking?
It's Only Alimentary, Dear Watson
active acute chronic long term incurable mental case
Janet B wrote:
> On 10 Apr 2006 12:56:40 -0700, iantw...@gmail.com, clicked their
> heels and said:
>
> > Feed the dog 4x a day? Does anyone actually do that?
Yeah.
> <3 month old puppies? You bet.
By three months they're O.K. for three times a day feedins.
> You DO know you're getting a PUPPY, right?
Right, janet. Let's PREY he knows better than to
jerk choke shock bribe intimidate mutilate and
lock IT in a box like HOWE you do your dogs.
> And that s/her has physical needs?
Yeah. Like jerking choking shocking and sexual
surgical mutilation, eh janet?
> > Poisoning? You're worried all of our dog's
> > enemies will poison it?
Yeah, on accHOWENT of these MENTAL CASES don't
know HOWE to poison proof their dogs <{): ~ ) >
> > Or that it will eat enough dirt that
> > it will eat something wierd?
Like socks and filthy undies layin arHOWEND.
> > Or..?
Or maybe HURT themself ESCAPIN their crates:
Subject: The crate escape - my brilliant puppy!
"Janet B" <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message
news:eua7329eugghgcf1v...@4ax.com...
> After Rudy came to stay with us, I got tired of running into an open
> crate door, so I bought a new crate, with a door that folds up and in.
> "can't be opened from the inside" says the ad. I always looked at
> these and thought "right", but for the last few months (yes, folks,
> it's been 3.5 months) it has worked great.
>
> Until Monday.
>
> That's when Mr Smarty-pants decided he knew how to open it. And
> greeted us at the door after 6+ hours of freedom. A chewed
> wastebasket lid and a puddle inside the front door (he loses it if
> very excited and yesterday morning I found evidence that a smallish
> dog had apparently "visited" right outside my full view front door)
> was all that was wrong. So yesterday, when I left for a short errand,
> I made sure to clip the door closed securely. And once again came
> home to an unconfined puppy.
>
> So, today, the crate will get clips on the door to ensure this doesn't
> happen again. I need him to learn that he shouldn't let himself out.
> But it looks like he's going to be allowed house freedom within a few
> days, and since he'll be 9 months old on Monday, that'll be the day.
> I'll take the next few days to put some shoes away and check out other
> things he may be interested in, and get out the bitter apple. My
> house is not exactly the neatest place in the world, and there's a lot
> of stuff that may be too available and interesting. We shall see.
>
> My puppy is growing up and too smart for his own good!
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
----------------
> You'd be amazed at some of the "nice"
> neighborhoods where weird stuff happens.
You mean LIKE THIS, janet?:
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
> And yes, there are rock eaters and that can kill a puppy/dog.
You can TRAIN dogs not to EAT ROCKS janet.
> Dogs can do weird things when they're bored.
Bored dogs SLEEP, janet.
> Have you HAD a dog before?
That's IRRELEVENT janet. He AIN'T MURDERED no dogs
pryor like HOWE you done tryin to "TRAIN" them.
> >Torment? Worried that she'll be tormented in our backyard?
>
> Cats, kids, you name it.
OH? You mean LIKE THIS, janet?:
<except when it is>
<except when it is>
--------------------
"Reliable Punishment Cycles, Different Thresholds To Pain
And Punishment, High Tolerance For Correction, Escalation
Of Correction To A Level Where The Dog Yelps When You Punish
Him, Thus Making The Experience One Which The Dog Will Want
To Avoid In The Future," grant teeboon, RAAF.
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
On 6 Feb 2006 17:41:08 GMT, Mary Healey <mhhea...@iastate.edu>,
clicked their heels and said:
> Does that include tone of voice? Some tools are easier
> to ban than others.
yes - screaming banshees are told to shut up! And I
always have to remind spouses that they may NOT do the
"honey - you're supposed to be doing it like THIS"......
lying frosty dahl, oakhill kennels wrote:
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.
terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
> > Or maybe that she won't be able to get out of the
> > fence, and will be tormented. Or that she won't be
> > able to find me? How is locking her in a crate
> >f or hours at a time a better solution?>>
> Crate training has many advantages,
There AIN'T NO SUCH THING as "CRATE TRAININ".
> one being that it's indoors.
You mean IN CASE your dog ESCAPES the crate, janet?
> "locking her in a crate for hours at a time" is a
> way of putting it to make it sound awful, or "safely
> confining in a crate for periods of time", which is
> reasonable, safe, humane, and generally, a good idea.
Yeah, you mean LIKE THIS:
From: sionnach (rhyfe...@email.msn.com)
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST
> And Sally responded:
> >Who said that? I would never do or recommend
> >that, and neither would most of the regulars on here.
> >Sally Hennessey
> I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed to do so.
> Take it out of context and you'd think I was flinging puppies
> across the room!
> here's what I said (keep in mind that we're talking about a
> 12 week old ~25# FCR puppy):
> A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> very persistant.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer- given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?
I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is very
persistant, it can be appropriate to take hold of the
loose skin at the back of the neck and give a slight
shake to the *skin*".
Janet's not talking about actually shaking
the puppy, which I think we ALL agree is
abusive."
INDEED! Here's professor of ANAL-ytic
behaviorISM research at UofWI marshall
"SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM "NO!"
into ITS face for five seconds and lock
IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation" dermer:
"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing
has decreased; and two, you have established
"No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," dermer.
"The ROCK" of rpdb!
BWEEEEHAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
> There are many benefits to crate training.
Yeah. You don't gotta TRAIN your dog if you
lock IT in a box and AVOID EVERY THING.
> Where will she be overnight?
She probably won't be swallowin his filthy undies
and gettin intestinal surgery like your dog, janet.
>
> > Theft? I suppose it is possible that someone
> > would steal her, but it is unlikely in my
> > community, and the number of dogs around.
>
> Once again, you'd be surprised. If you think your
> community is not at risk, you are wrong.
Perhaps they don't allHOWE mental case there, janet?
> > The dog won't be able to escape from the back yard,
>
> What kind of structure do you have around the yard?
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net wrote in message news:
16990-3CAB1F8...@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...
I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know she's
not here with us. I really can't blame anyone here for her
loss.
I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because of how
you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the idea that my
using a shock collar could have any bearing on Peach not
wanting to stay home.
Up until I started using it my main concern had been keeping
my dogs in their own yard.
Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my concern
became how to keep them from running off for days on end.
I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the
anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.
I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now <g>
A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained,
doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn't bark all
the time.
IOW a great companion and friend.
Thanks Jerry!
=====================
misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6...@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
> We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two
> dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.
> Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come
> back in the yard and would run for days.
>The last time, Peach didn't
> come back home.
> I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train
> my dog. She is now border trained. A few minutes each day
> reinforces her desire to stay in the yard.
> She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from
> chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk around
> the yard.
> I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the
> e-fence and its collars. If you can't get a regular fence
> then you need to train your dog.
> I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog in
> our yard again.
> The price was too high:-( ~misty
--------------------------------
From: Nevyn (greatd...@badmama.com.au)
Subject: Re: radio fence
Date: 2003-11-05 04:17:45 PST
Hi folks,
In my opinion the use of a radioshock fence is a waste of
time, effort or money. I can understand it if you a rich snob
who cares nothing about their dogs safey or behaviours.
At work I boundary train all the dogs to the bricked area
(Four kennels with 26 cages with 1 dog in each, 1 services
building and 2 catterys which is surrounded by scrubland to
the east and woodlands to the north and a lake to the west).
This works well, because then when people buy them the dogs
are easier to boundary train to a door or fence or yard.
However on a personal note, my two shelter mutts, who I
trained using the WITS END DOG MANUAL available at
www.doggydoright.com will not go past the back door, or the
back gate or the front gate without permission.
And it is nice, for when you are having a party, you can leave
your gates open for people, and your dogs won't be the least
concerned.
I find this better then spending your well earned money on a
piece of junk Why not use it to invest in a horse? Or a new
house? Make a nice aquarium? Build a nursery for a child?
Save your money. Train your dog. Please. -- Thankyou,
Nevyn
_________________________________
Nevyn E.D. Veterinary Nurse & Animal Trainer
greatd...@badmama.com.au
"You can judge a man's heart by his treatment
of animals"
__________________________________
From: Paul B (NOSPAMpaul_bou...@clear.net.nz)
Subject: Re: Fence Jumping
Date: 2000-09-29 04:33:37 PST
Been well experienced in dogs escaping from our
yard I know exactly the frustration you are going
through. Sam used to jump over the fence so I
made it higher then we got Roz and she went
under it, through it and climbed over it.
I've decided there are only 2 ways to stop the escaping,
1 is to have an escape proof fence, the other to train the
dogs not to want to escape.
I suppose a third method is to keep them
inside but I don't consider that a solution.
Making the fence escape proof can be almost impossible
if the dog is determined, to stop it climbing over as yours
is doing put an extension on top of the fence that angles
inwards at about 30-45 degrees. Never use chicken wire
as the dogs tear through that like paper.
The only training method to prevent this I can recall is
Jerry's technique, essentially it involves walking around the
perimeter of the fenced area with the dog and using sound
distractions and praise to teach the dog it's boundary.
I have had partial success with it (i.e. I have deterred Roz
from escaping from various points along the fence) but then
again I haven't really followed it through completely.
One last glimmer of hope, as the dog gets older it may
become more settled, Sam never escapes now although
he's quite capable of getting out, he 2.5 years old and
seemed to settle at about 2. So there you are, only 1.5
years of escaping left!!!
Paul.
> > and won't have to worry about things like eating
> > plants, the dog house (once i fix it), or garden
> > implements, as they either don't exist or are
> > harmless (the dog house).
>
> Sounds like a fun yard!
Yeah. Rember when you used your backyard to BBQ your
own elderly dog in 104F heat when you COULDN'T GET
IT to come inside, janet?
> > The only possible issues I'll have are digging in
> > the back yard (and this won't be a big issue),
>
> How do you know that?
Perhaps he's fixin to HIRE A DOG TRAINER like you, janet?
> > chewing on the siding - unlikely in my
> > opinion, and chewing on the fence.
>
> Have you HAD a lab puppy before?
You ain't gettin away with BLAMIN THE BREED nodoGdamenedMOORE janet.
> > You're right that is is hard to be truly secure
> > and safe from outside influences and injury from
> > any number of things, but you could say the same
> > thing about anything.
Like trainin?
> True. But lab pups are notorious for chewing
> and finding things to do when they're bored.
Like your dogs, janet?
> If you're working all day and not coming home, that
> means she isn't getting any interaction, training,
> or exercise all day.
Perhaps he should take IT to a doggy day care
like matty's got, eh janet? Or maybe he can
HIRE your PARTNER sinofabitch to walk IT?:
> > cobbled them together,
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
> > and a fake signature.
"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
That so?
> > is downright meaningless.
Here's yours:
See?
> Hope you're planning on a lot once home, but that
> won't stop her from getting bored and destructive
> during the day.
THAT'S INSANE, janet. ALL temperament and behavior
problems are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING not bein BORED.
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
HOWEDY janet you miserable lying dog abusing punk thug coward
active acute chronic long term incurable mental case,
Janet B wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:10:33 -0600, Jeff Dege <jd...@jdege.visi.com>,
> clicked their heels and said:
>
> I assume Lucy wrote this?:
>
> >>> > Look, I find it hard to believe that - in all those studies - there
> >>> > was a group of dogs trained by Jerry's method and that group failed
> >>> > to give the desired results. "Only positive methods" is a rather
> >>> > ambiguous definition, if you ask Janet B. or Handsome Jack I'm sure
> >>> > they wouldn't find anything "negative" about their methods, either.
> >>> > What I'd like to see is an example of dog that is untrainable by
> >>> > JERRY'S method. Do you know or can you think of such a dog? Jerry has
> >>> > given quite a few examples of dogs that had been untrainable by the
> >>> > conventional methods and were trained easily by applying his method;
> >>> > can you give an example where the opposite is true?
>
> How about some proof.
You mean like Lucy's own POSTED CASE HISTORY, janet?
Or do you mean like EVIDENCE that'll stand up in courts of law, janet?
> He's failed to ever show any evidence of such.
That's absurd, janet. And that's a lie, janet. And that's INSANE,
janet.
AND that'll stand up in any court of law, janet. THAT'S HOWE COME you
and your mentally ill punk thug coward dog abusing FRAUDS can't post
here abHOWETS nodoGdameneDMOORE. REMEMBER NHOWE, janet?
> Sock puppets don't count.
You keep sayin that, janet. LUCKY THING next month (March) comences
The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's Appreciation Celebration in advance
of The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard Grand Appreciation Month of April!
THAT'S RIGHT, janet. Commencing in March The Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizard will be inviting all those "SOCK PUPPETS" who've posted their
TESTIMONIALS PRAISES an THANK YOU'S an BLESSINGS to The Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard to repost to The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums singing their PRAISES all
over again so's we can have as many of them as possible celebrating as
WON for the Grand Celebration Of The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard
Appreciation Month of April!
WHOOOPIE!
> >> Now, can you tell me that a trainer sticking to the conventional methods
> >> (such as, say, Janet B.) would do the same, if their training failed?
>
> >Of course they would. And they generally do.
That AIN'T TRUE according to the POSTED CASE HISTORIES of
the lying dog abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic
long term incurable mental cases we've had posting here, dog
lovers like tara o. aka tee of Boxer Rescue of N.C. who MURDERED
Tyson and Summer and probably a few dozen dogs in between and
deirdre edwards who murdered her own "heart dog" at ten years
of age for SEPARATION ANXXXIHOWESNESS when she couldn't KEEP
IT LOCKED IN A BOX nodoGdameneDMOORE and purple pony murderin
her own DEAD DOG Raggdoll and laura arlov MURDERIN her own DEAD
DOG Chewie after followin tommy sorenson aka gentleman jack
morrison aka DOGMAN's advice like HOWE Robert Crim MURDERED
his own DEAD DOG Fritz The WONder Dog pryor to him studyin his
own FREE COPY of The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual and postin THIS:
Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"
< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.
'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.
>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are
Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?
Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
=====================
> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.
This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.
Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.
Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)
===========
Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy,
"you insipid piece of cow dung!"
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
> Refer to another trainer if needed?
Like you done for that little DEAD DOG you MURDERED
in "interested in hearing", janet? HOWE MANY dogs
HAVE you MURDERED since then, janet?
> You bet.
CITES PLEASE? BWEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> I don't offer B&T for instance,
You mean board an train, janet.
> and there are a lot of situations where that is the best training course.
Oh, you mean like when your punk thug coward active acute chronic
long term mental case tommy sorenson or susan fraser trains award
winning field dogs?
Listen up dog abuser, liar, coward, mental case. IT'S OVER.
Even professor SCRUFF SHAKE dermer ROLLED OVER and GAVE IT UP:
Punishment Deranges Behavior.
"NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
EXCEPT
To DERANGE Behaviors.
Here's professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM NO! into ITS face for
five seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation"
dermer pryor:
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),
--Marshall
Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"
From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) -
Date: 1998/08/28
Subject: Re: Puppy growls and snaps
In article <6s6ea0$8c...@uwm.edu> der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall
Dermer) writes: In article <35E60819.65178...@pilot.msu.edu>
> >tami sutherland <suthe...@pilot.msu.edu> writes:
>> However, there have been incidences where she has
>> growled and snapped at us...for instance, when we
>> were trying to dry her off after bathtime.
> When your three-month old pooch growls or snaps, IMMEDIATELY
> pick her up ONLY by the skin at the back of her neck, for 5
> sec, and loudly say, "NO!" Alternatively, say "NO!" and hold
> her mouth shut for say 15 sec.
> If she so snaps that you can't do the above then you
> will have to find another way to administer a prompt
> correction, for example, throwing a can filled with
> pennies, or a tug on the collar. --Marshall
"Oops! I would start by only holing her mouth
shut for say 5 sec.
At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400
Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.
I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.
There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.
Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology
Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:
"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.
--Marshall Dermer
And NHOWE The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard is fixin to
SCHTUPP the entire industry, janet <{); ~ ) >
> --
> Janet B
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
> http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400
Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.
I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.
There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.
Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology
From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:26:31 GMT
Subject: Dr. George VonHilshimer Writes: "No Loving, No Learning."
HOWEDY People,
Perhaps the PROBLEM is "TOO MANY WORDS?"
From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
To: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 4:40 AM
Subject: Fw: Counter Cruising must stop
> From: "diannes" <dian...@bolt.sonic.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Counter Cruising must stop
> > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > I wrote:
> > > > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > On another note: I understand why someone
> > > > > proclaiming a method that works on all dogs,
> > > > > all the time, would send up "red flag" to you
> > > > > and others, but the fact remains, if a technique
> > > > > *doesn't* work 100% of the time, with all dogs,
> > > > > then there must be a flaw in the philosophy
> > > > > underlying that technique.
> > > > Ditto for dog training. No failure nor flaw of method
> > > > is involved - that's just acceptance of reality.
> > > First of all, I didn't say that there was a flaw in the
> > > method, though anyone is welcome to make that
> > > leap.
> > > I said there was a flaw in the underlying philosophy
> > > and its model of learning.
> > Correction accepted. I think that perhaps we are using
> > terminology differently here. Here is my use of the terms:
Jerry, I don't know where you find these folk who can't read.
> In order to use negative reinforcement, one must
> typically administer the aversive stimulus in order
> to be able to terminate it.
This is not negative reinforcement. Negative means no.
Positive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
reward emitted immediately by trainer;
Negative reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
no response by trainer;
Aversive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
aversive stimuli emitted immediately by trainer;
The term "reinforcement is used only tentatively with
"aversion" because aversive stimuli (aka punishment)
typically derange learning and are not followed by clean
learning curves equivalent to those which follow reward
or positive reinforcement;
Escape conditioning = dog has an aversive stimulus
applied without any dog related reason and when
behavior is emitted aversive stim is immediately turned off .
There is some indication that Escape Conditioning
works in a manner closely approximating reward;
but, ear pinch? -- too aversive.
I remind you that you should beat them over the head
with "The Misbehavior of Organisms" by Breland and
Breland, published in B.F. Skinner's CUMULATIVE
RECORD. Ignored by most profs of psychology, but
the distillation of his work.
NO PUNISHMENT.
Must pay attention to who is the animal?
His evolution, his development, and his personal history -
cannot train without respect for who is the dog? So says
the BIG TIME operant conditioning guru - and you can also
refer back to MARY COVER JONES (mother of scientific
systematic psychology), no loving, no learning.
I suppose I could wire up a dog so that his brain was
badly interrupted and the loving method of puppy training
might not work well - but it would still work better than
the methods used by dominatrix and their ilk.
Lovingly applied ethological techniques like the one
espoused by the Wizard of ALL puppies work for all
dogs, for that matter for all mammals higher than cat.
Indeed, they will work for cats if trainer is warmly competent.
You can see this in Key West on any sunny day.
Housecats performing quite happily.
Fondly, Dr. Von
From: TooCool (larrym...@hotmail.com)
The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method
I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
years. I have a huge library that covers every system
of training.
The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
method yet discovered.
It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
a logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically
consistent manner.
Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
understand the basis of his system and please follow
his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
how their solution should be approached.
One should not pick and choose from among his methods
based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is
not a bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system
for not only training a dog but for raising a loving companion.
When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.
You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
lie quietly and let me clip his nails).
Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
train you dog to respond to your commands.
What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
carry him in response to my recall command-and he
comes running every time I call no matter where we are
or what he is doing.
At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
his Family Pack Leadership exercises.
Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
you.
Is Jerry a nut?
It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based
upon their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply when
he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding or
hurting dogs.
More than that, he knows that force is not effective
and that it will certainly lead to behavior problems;
sometime problems so severe that people put their
dogs down because of those problems.
I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
at our wits' end, haven't we?
Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
to praise.
Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
along with their anxiety.
Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
success.
Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.
If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet
little Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little
gremlin (anyone see The Gremlins?). --Larry
Works like a charm.
Nice side benefit there.
Mike
"Ama...@DCFWatch.com" wrote:
No, the dog learned that I would hold still
the second she began to pull. She would pull
to go where *she* wanted.
Well if she wanted to stop and go in another
direction.. say to sniff my neighbors yard..
she learned if she wanted to do it I would stop
walking and she could go.. and if there wasn't
enough slack on her lead she would just pull me.
Then when she got done doing *her* thing, she woudl
heel.. smile at me and wait for me to say "let's go"
and finish *my* thing. I would refuse to move .. i
looked like an idiot.. freezing mid walk for minutes
waiting for *my* dog to heel and give *me* permission
to go again.
I did the treats and the let's go... she got to do her
stuff and get a cookie.. if she even wanted the cookie.
I wound up calling Jerry.. as I have a half red nose
pit and half amstaff.. who is incredibly protective..
we had a new pup on the way.. and i needed help.. i
followed petsmarts trainnign guides.. memorized them...
and they *did* work, don't get me wrong.. but only
when my pet wanted a cookie or felt the cookie was
better than what she wanted.. which was not often.
She quickly learned to ignore my commands if she
could see my hands were empty. So I called Jerry...
he chatted me for about an hour and a half.. gave me
his link... and even when i had probs intro'ing the
pup he called me withn i5 mins of my email for help
at 10pm on a sunday night.
One.. singular.. uno family pack exercise after
the hot and cold exercise and i could zig zag
down my street.. about face .. whatever.. and
never had tension.
two men were acrossed the street and she walked right
by them... ordinarily she'd snarl and protect us.
And in two days.. my dog.. who bit the puppy if he
even looked like he was going near my husband or kids..
is nursing him every hour.. cleaning him.. rough housing
gently.. and teaching him to go potty outside..
actually watches him to make sure he doesn't go in
the house... and has milk.. which is awesome since
she's 19 months old and has never had a litter.
She also has stopped barking non stop at our neighbor's
dogs and pig.. does not bark at eveyr car that drives by
and has stopped jumping on people. she's even starting
to ignore our cat who has lived on her dome litter box
and our window sill (literally) for over a year and a half.
She also does her commands on cue.. and doesn't look for a treat.
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400
You might improve the learning of folk who actually
live with and train dogs to do useful things if you
excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists.
I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor
of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR
OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland.
This married pair of psychologists began the long trail
of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu
eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating
the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size
of the natural food of killer whales, seals. Yum!
The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's
summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD. They include a
sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand
the personal history of the particular animal, and the
history of this animal's species and group, the developmental
history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal.
Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without
scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking,
you aren't going to have much success.
A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original
primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the
animal, and is hard wired. If you train the animal to respond,
say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright
light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex
of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell.
Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training
and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross
motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the
animal takes action and uses an instrument.
The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other
contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
went haring after phantasmagora.
The major theorists for the development of the language of
operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
role in the development of American psychology.
They proposed that learning is the result of the application
of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)
Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often
viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that
follows the response that influences whether the response
is likely or unlikely to occur again.
It is through operant conditioning that
voluntary responses are learned.
One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
without the operant language, and only pettifogging
university professors ought to worry about what kind
of label we attach to the learning. Pfui!
Even Skinner understood this!
And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
THERAPY.
Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
to a scientific basis. Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
Salter as a source. "...all the highest nervous activity, as
it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
continual change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice
Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.
I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.
I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:
whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.
The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).
You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.
As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine
"Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com wrote in message
news:
I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
I do not know what started the problem but he came
aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
ad I took him with me everywhere.
At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
it was not working on his aggression problem.
I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
working as he was becoming more aggressive.
I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.
I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
have the people stop until he could get in control using
treats, and work on clicker training.
At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
would not come when I called him and would run away when
I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who
hasn't trained her dog"
I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
responsible for him."
*(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)
As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.
The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
I had been working for 18 months!
Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
can sound and he looked at me like uhn?
I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
on by.
When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
me like "you must be out of your mind"
The results can make a believer!!!
Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
in a busy shopping area with many dogs.
He just seemed to not notice any one.
When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.
I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
enjoy life out in public.
If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.
My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!
I know most people would have given up on him a long time
ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
but only with the right approach-sound and praise.
I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!
================================
From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression
Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.
We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!
We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.
He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!
Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.
I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!
I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.
I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-
- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.
They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.
----------------------------------
It's Only Alimentary, Dear Watson
iantw...@gmail.com wrote:
> > "3 month old puppies? You bet. You DO know you're
> > getting a PUPPY, right? And that s/her has physical
> > needs?"
> -I'll be feeding the dog, at most, 3 times a day.
That'll work.
> I'll find some authority on what type of food,
Commercial dog food is GARBAGE.
Here's HOWE The Puppy Wizard feeds his dogs:
Breakfast At The Puppy Wizard's -
Chez du Chien -
Gourmet Recipies
HOWEDY People,
Unbeknownst to yourselves, this has been a difficult
couple weeks for Your Puppy Wizard. Not to complain,
but he's been necessarily temporarily abandoned by
his Mrs.Puppy Wizard who had to attend to affairs out
of town for nine days.
Left alone, helpless and hapless to cope with domestic
and personal needs, to fend for HISSELF and his pups by
his own devices, his Mrs. Puppy Wizard HOWEver, is
considerate and foresighted enough to prepare His table
before him, in advance, and even calls to remind him to
breath, when necessary.
Your Puppy Wizard requires little from the physical realm,
existing primarily on prahana and nirvana as his staple diet.
HOWEver, his puppies unfortunately cannot thrive in the
physical world without the grounding effects of the evils
of wholesome food.
Mrs. Puppy Wizard prepares daily, fresh, well balanced
HOWES cooked meals. When Mrs. Puppy Wizard travels
occasionally, she prepares for the days of lean in advance,
by freezing two weeks worth of puppy chow and posting the
culinary instructions on the Puppy Wizard's coffee can, the
only physical need The Puppy Wizard requires, beyond his
internet connection and of course, his Mrs. Puppy Wizard
and puppies. But those are givens, naturally.
Mrs. Puppy Wizard prepares 2 meals a day. The
following recipe is for about a 100 pound dog:
Breakfast is half pound raw ground turkey, green
Source, and 1gram vitamin C, 200mg Omega 3 fish
oil and a *Iams cookie *(cause she LIKES to).
Dinner is 2 cups cooked rice, a tablespoon of rolled
oats and an ounce of hamburg. When the rice and oats
cool, add half cup pinto or similar beans, ground fine
in the food processor with equal amounts raw collard or
similar greens or your dog's favorite vegetable or cabbage,
a tablespoon or two Olive or Cannola oil, half clove garlic,
mixed with 1/2 pound raw ground turkey, a good vitamin /
mineral supplement (Green Source for People), calcium and
magnesium, 1 gram vitamin C, 200mg Omega 3 fish oil.
Addition of table scraps is encouraged, bear in mind
salt can be dangerous. The Puppy Wizard's diet is
environmentally friendly and will not produce noxious
gasses provided the vegetable and beans are ground
finely and because the Green Source contains digestive
enzmyes.
Of curse, that's just a BASIC guide. You may add fish
(canned mackrel is cheap and EXXXCELLENT) or chitlins
or anything not too high in salt or preservatives
BHOWEN APETITE!
> how often, meal size, etc, before I get the dog.
You might want to look into "FREE FEEDING".
> > "You'd be amazed at some of the "nice"
> > neighborhoods where weird stuff happens.
Like HERE, for EXXXAMPLE.
> > And yes, there are rock eaters and that can kill a
> > puppy/dog. Dogs can do weird things when they're
> > bored. Have you HAD a dog before?"
>
> -If you're inferring that I shouldn't be shocked
"I'm Shocked That I Shocked"
tara o. aka tee,
NC Boxer Rescue Abuse
HOWEDY People
Here's WON of HOWER MENTAL CASES
hurtin dogs and lying abHOWET it again.
"I'm shocked that I shocked"
"Tara O." <nos...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bh9f81$vrac2$1...@ID-92443.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Due to someone reprimanding Jar-Jar & the word
> "rescue" in the post, I decided to read down and see
> what he was spewing now. I was able to learn that
> besides choking, pinching, crating, abusing and
> murdering my dog, I also shocked her. I must be
> suffering from amnesia.
> Can someone point me to a post where I said
> I shocked my dog, or any dog, or that I even
> know *how* to use an e-collar....assuming I had one
> which must have been stolen at the same time I lost
> my memory.
> One would think Jerry would be happy with the
> "murder" part and all my other training sins but
> evidently not.
> --
> Tara
HOWEDY tara o. aka tee,
Tee wrote:
> I have an Innotek IUT-300 UltraSmart remote trainer in hand.
IT AIN'T GONNA MAKE YOU SMART, tara o. aka tee.
> The collar itself goes on today but will not be used
> for several days as I don't want him to make a collar
> association if possible.
Oh goody! You DID get WIZE to the "collar conditioning".
CuriHOWES AIN'T IT, that NOWON HERE HAS EVER MENTIONED
collar conditioning OTHER THAN The Amazing Puppy Wizard
<{); ~ ) >, and YOU DON'T READ HIS POSTS...
> On Saturday
That's TODAY! HURRAY!
> I'm going to set him up to fail so I can use
> the collar and provide him with a few clear
> associations.
Ahhh.
> Joe Joe knows, without doubt, that counter-cruising and
> trash-raiding are unacceptable. I'm going to intentionally
> put something yummy on the counter and make myself visibly
> scarce. I know he'll take the bait. I plan to tone him for
> approaching/thinking about the food and stimulate him for
> touching the food.
Oh. GOOD IDEA! THAT'LL WIZE HIM UP TO THE COLLAR.
BWEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
> Same with the trashcan and I plan to do this until Monday.
You mean, till you BURN him on Monday.
HE WON'T GO NEAR THEM WHILE YOU'RE WATCHIN so YOU
WON'T BE ABLE TO BURN HIM, tara o. aka tee.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
> The way I see it is that I'm taking something I know
> he has made a "this is NOT allowed" association with
> and providing a nick to accompany it.
You mean a SHOCK, tara o. aka tee. Let's not get TOO technical.
> This way when the marking behavior is addressed he will hopefully:
>
> a) not make a collar association
You mean with the collar that's been "toning" him for a couple days.
> b) know that the correction is a result of
THE RESULT OF YOU HURTIN HIM.
> him doing something inappropriate
Dogs EAT STUFF when they're anXXXIHOWES
and INSECURE, JUST LIKE HOWE YOU DO, with
your bulemia and STUFF.
REMEMBER?
> I have someone local coming by Monday evening just to
> meet Joe Joe and try to figure out the best, least risky
> in terms of possible negative side associations, way to
> handle identifying & association marking Fancy.
Ahhh. EXXXCELLENT! We wouldn't want someWON who
DON'T KNOW HOWE to PUPPERLY HURT a dog to mess
IT up by shockin IT a the wrong time.
> I have websites from Dobbs, Castle, Tritronics and various
> retriever related ecollar articles bookmarked as well as
> some research I did into the archives for conversations
> between Lynn, Amy, Susan F, Trisha, etc.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHHAHAAA!!! ALL THE DOG ABUSERS WHO DON'T
POST HERE ABHOWETS nodoGamenedMOORE, eh tara o. aka tee?
You certainly DID NOT SEE any "COLLAR CONDITIONING"
advice in The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives that
DIDN'T COME FROM The Amazing Puppy Wizard.
> I plan to see if I can find a book or two on e-collar
> training at Barnes & Noble this afternoon. Hopefully
> my efforts in this direction and correct use of the tool
You mean PAIN FEAR and INTIMDIATION.
> will provide the fix we're searching for.
Well tara o. aka tee, the FIX AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN
on accHOWENT of as you REPRESS ANXXXIHOWESNESS
BEHAVIORS those behaviors CHANGE to OTHER, often
worse, seemingly UNRELATED behaviors, like attackin
innocent critters and havin halucinations and OCD
behaviors.
> I hope it also calms any fears some of you
> seem to have about me using an e-collar.
HOWE COME you didn't give THIS OPPORTUNITY to
your own DEAD DOG Summer pryor to MURDERIN her?
> It seems to me the best tool for the job
You mean HURTIN him.
> at this point and that it may be foolish to not try it.
And THAT'S HOWE COME you're BOXER RESCUE of NC.
> --
> Tara
HOWEDY tara o.,
You didn't HURT INTIMIDATE and MURFDER
your own DEAD DOG Summer:
Date: 2003-04-28 18:09:04 PST
> "Tara O." wrote:
> > Labs are a breed that are normally trained for
> > field work with ear pinches, e-collars and other
> > forms of physical interaction without making them
> > fearful or aggressive.
==============
From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Dane hyper when passing other dogs
Date: 2001-04-21 12:07:54 PST
I think its pertinent to mention that I've never had
any dogs who exhibited signs of aggression or were in
any way, shape, or form resistent to whatever
"training" I did with them.
I would not feel comfortable relying on my past
experience or a book to train a dog to stop biting,
snapping or growling.
--
Tara O.
===================
From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Canine Behaviors For Dummies
Date: 2001-06-11 19:42:23 PST
"joshua" <jos...@ycsi.net> wrote in message
news:9g3uoi$sc7$0...@63.90.193.133...
> I cant seem to understand why people believe prong
> collars are cruel and inhumane. They do nothing more
> than pinch, getting the attention of the animal.
> Choke collars, on the other hand, do permanent
> damage. They bruise the esophagus.
> Shock collars will eventually destroy nerve endings,
> much the same as electric fencing.
Joshua, you have just reopened a can of worms
that can quickly cause infestation here lol
--
Tara O.
===============
From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: jerry howe
Date: 2001-04-04 11:58:06 PST
> People are tired of being abused and insulted simply
> for saying they use a prong collar, or a choke
> collar, or an e-collar, or a crate, etc. If you want
> to LEARN more about dog training and dog behavior,
> then listen to what they have to say, too.
"I've never not listened to what people say here.
I use a crate, am about to begin with a choke collar,
I'm not the bad guy here." tara o.
======================
From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Electronic Training Collars
Date: 2001-05-11 17:29:33 PST
""Twzl, Sligo and Roy Happy Together"" wrote
> BTW, this is one of the frequent topics on obedience
> email lists. When people say that they haven't used
> corrections, it turns out that they feel that if
> they do it, it's not a real correction.
That makes sense in a weird sort of way. I don't
honestly think that its humanly possible to train
anyone or anything without correction. Its human
nature to say 'no' or to stop a behavior by doing
something. I used a tin can with coins to correct
Summer's bad puppy behaviors and the cold shoulder
to correct her other less desirable behaviors. I
have said 'no' so many times that I probably sound
like a broken record. Amie can attest to that
lol.
It seems to me that some people are automatically
equating the term correction with punishment. I
guess they can go hand in hand since my tin can
wasn't something Summer liked. My ignoring her
when she's misbehaving is also something she
doesn't like. Therefore it can be viewed as
punishment? And that term is 100% negative.
Maybe if more people saw it as correction and not
the total negative, they'd be less inclined to
want to be PP.
Don't know if the way I wrote that made sense, it
makes sense in my head but then again the men with
the white coats could come a'knockin at any
moment.
Tara O.
===================
From: Tara O. (nos...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Any hope? rage?
Date: 2003-03-26 05:46:02 PST
Yes I see and understand your point. There's no such
thing as 100% vigilence 100% of the time IMO. You
could call an e-fence company to find out if its
possible to wire only your front door so that if she
gets within a certain range of that front door the
collar will start working. I'd think there would be a
way to work that and it may be inexpensive to do
so.
There are also items called Scat Mats that you place
in front of doors or any area you don't want your dog
to proceed through. When stepping on the mat, it gives
off a vibration, something which most dogs hate.
They'll stay far away from the mats. I believe you can
buy them from
--
Tara
==================
Tara O. (nos...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Need advice--barking dog
Date: 2003-08-06 17:38:14 PST
you could consider installing an invisible fence just
inside the fence line so he cannot get too close. You
could talk to your neighbor about splitting the cost
of whichever alternative you both find most
acceptable.
--
Tara
=================
From: Tara O. (nos...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Containment Collars
Date: 2003-03-11 07:12:57
I know people who have electric fences and it works
very well for them. I know people who have them and
whose dogs escape and refuse to come back in. From
the details I know of all involved, I wouldn't use an
e-fence on:
1. An adult dog that wasn't raised with the fence from
a puppy
2. A dog with a high prey drive
3. A very stubborn dog
If I put my female out in an e-fence, the very first
kid, cat, dog or squirrel she sees would have her
bolting through the barrier shock or not. When she
finally loses interest in whatever has caused her to
leave and her adrenalin has diminished, she will think
rationally and realize she's not willing to come back
into the yard because she knows the shock would get
her.
you have a dog who just has to go after or
up to any and everything that walks down the street
then I'd definitely not recommend one of these
systems. The people I know who it works for installed
them when their dogs were pups so they were brought up
trained to it. Two of the ones I know it didn't work
for have adult adopted dogs who weren't raised
with this kind of invisible barrier.
===================
From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: escape artist, thunder, aggression
questions Date: 2001-05-12 07:56:04 PST
Since he got a taste of freedom and knows he can
get out I doubt you'll be able to stop him short
of tethering him or using a more sophisticated
device like an e-fence but I wouldn't recommend
going the electronic fence route without first
doing your homework on the pros and cons of them
and understand that they are not fool-proof.
=========================
> or appalled if someone poisons my dog, then you're way off base.
> If you're inferring that it is a reasonable risk that someone
> will poison my dog, then again, you're way off base. Yes, I've
> had a dog. Yes, I've had a puppy, why the attitude?
On accHOWENT of if you ain't doin the Macarena and
you SUCCESSFULLY raise and train your dog you'll
make monkeys HOWETA these MENTAL CASES... unless
they do it themselves FIRST.
LIKE THIS:
From: dfrntdr...@aol.com (Leah)
Date: 04 Feb 2005 03:14:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Dog fight, dog bite, aaaiiiieeeeee
>ceb c...@virginia.edu wrote:
> I did yell NO!!! or STOP!!! or something like that.
> It seemed to have no effect. I wonder if a loud,
> long blast would work.
Stick your thumbs up their butts. No, I'm serious.
I've never done it, but I hear it works a treat. Gross
as it sounds, I'm going to try it if I ever need to.
--
Family Dog Trainer
"It's A Dog's Life"
From: ThePetAlchem...@FastMail.FM - view profile
Date: Sun, Jul 24 2005 3:24 am
Email: ThePetAlchem...@FastMail.FM
Groups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior, alt.animals.dog,
alt.pets.dogs.labrador, alt.pets.dogs.pitbull, rec.pets.dogs.health
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HOWEDY Lucy,
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
lucyaa...@claque.net wrote:
> Melinda Shore wrote:
> > In article <PiVCe.9349$2h1.6011@trnddc05>,
> > Christy <easily.amu...@gtenospam.net> wrote:
> > >Ahhhh. I didn't catch that, 'cos I have that name in my killfile. Very, very
> > >good catch, Paula. Guess that's another sock puppet revealed...
> > This kind of thing is pretty easy to check. Most news
> > interfaces stick the poster's IP address somewhere in the
> > header. Google constructs an "Injection-Info" header. In
> > this case Jerry was posting from 24.110.196.12 and Loser
> > from 217.132.121.111. Other fields in the header are
> > consistent with the two posts coming not just from different
> > addresses but from different continents. I think that in
> > this case what probably happened is that Jerry gave a
> > virtuoso display of his complete inability to master an
> > editor.
> > I realize that Lucy is such a bonehead that you can't help
> > thinking that it's not possible for someone to be such a
> > dolt and there must be some other explanation, but as I've
> > said before, it's in the nature of averages that somebody/
> > something has to be below average, and thus it is that we
> > have Lucy.
> Sure. Not all of us are gifted enough to sing "The Girl of Ipanema"
> while simultaneously holding a dog's rear end (how do you do it with a
> Great Dane or a Saint Bernard, Melinda? THAT must be a sight to see!),
> so a simple-minded person like me needs a simple working method like
> Jerry's.
> Lucy
That's INSANE, Lucy. You'd be better off
doin the MONKEY MACARENA or shovin your
thumb up ITS behind like THIS:
snip BUNK and SKIP to The Monkey Macarena>:
Ain't hard to do:
leah wrote:
"spin around and start skipping in the
other direction, making chimpanzee
sounds.
Scream "My dog has aggression issues."
They'll avoid you. > :}
"Your goal is going to be to teach your dog
that every time he sees another dog, something
good is going to happen.
So as soon as he notices another dog,
Scream "My dog has aggression issues."
They'll avoid you. > :}
you begin to praise like mad and stuff his
face with hot dogs. When the dog is out
of sight, the praise and treats stop."
SEE?
O.K., NHOWE YOU TRY?
Rememer, it ain't hard to do.
From: dfrntdr...@aol.comMURK-OFF (Leah)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Subject: I Saw A Baby Corgi Butt!!!
Okay, so the owner thought I was nuts. :}
A 9-week old corgi came into the store today. I said,
"I've heard that there's nothing cuter on earth than a
baby corgi butt, so I have to see," and kneeled down to
look at the backside of the pup.
Ohmygoodness!!! That *is* terminally cute!!!
PetsMart Pet Trainer
See My Furry Family At:
http://www.angelfire.com/fl5/dogs0
===========
SKIP to The Monkey Macarena:
Subject: Re: help with socializing an older dog
Date: 2004-08-09 20:56:52 PST
HOWEDY Master Of Deception blankman,
<T...@dog-play.com> wrote in message
news:2nqqobF...@uni-berlin.de...
> On 9 Aug 2004 11:24:01 -0700 bill
<tryin_to_get_heal...@yahoo.com> whittled these words:
> > ok, those sound like some good suggestions...
You mean, doin the "Monkey Macarena?"
Ain't hard to do:
"spin around and start skipping in the
other direction, making chimpanzee
sounds.
Scream "My dog has aggression issues."
They'll avoid you. > :}
"Your goal is going to be to teach your dog
that every time he sees another dog, something
good is going to happen.
So as soon as he notices another dog,
Scream "My dog has aggression issues."
They'll avoid you. > :}
you begin to praise like mad and stuff his
face with hot dogs. When the dog is out
of sight, the praise and treats stop."
SEE?
O.K., NHOWE YOU TRY?:
Rememer, it ain't hard to do:
"spin around and start skipping in the
other direction, making chimpanzee
sounds.
Scream "My dog has aggression issues."
They'll avoid you. > :}
"Your goal is going to be to teach your dog
that every time he sees another dog, something
good is going to happen.
So as soon as he notices another dog,
Scream "My dog has aggression issues."
They'll avoid you. > :}
you begin to praise like mad and stuff his
face with hot dogs. When the dog is out
of sight, the praise and treats stop."
SEE?
> > "Crate training has many advantages, one being that
> > it's indoors. "locking her in a crate for hours at
> > a time" is a way of putting it to make it sound awful,
> > or "safely confining in a crate for periods of time",
> > which is reasonable, safe, humane, and generally, a
> > good idea. There are many benefits to crate training.
> > Where will she be overnight?"
>
> -I'm going to put her in the laundry machine overnight,
> where she can't get out or cause trouble. Kidding, she'll
> be in a crate overnight.
Of curse! On accHOWENT of you don't know HOWE to
pupperly handle and train your dog JUST LIKE the
rest of these LYIN DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARD
ACTIVE ACUTE CHRONIC LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL
CASES you're chummin with <{); ~ ) >
"Birds of a feather. You're JUDGED BY the company
you keep. When you lie with PIGS you'll awaken
STINKIN like 'em," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{); ~ ) >
> What dog wouldn't want to be outside in a
> secure safe yard as opposed to in a crate.
janet's dog that COOKED in 104F heat FOR EXXXAMPLE.
> > "Once again, you'd be surprised. If you think
> > your community is not at risk, you are wrong."
Ahhh, COMMUNITY????
WORDS OF WISDOM
From Our Own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft
EVERY DAY
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever
to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we
earn the right to participate in by observing
the easily understood rules and contributing
to in constructive ways."
Lynn K.
> -Every community is "at risk" for dog theft, but
> I'm not going to leave my puppy in a crate for
> fear of being stolen. Once again, I WON'T be
> surprised that things like dog theft happen.
> Again, I'm not sure why you have the arrogant
> attitude about what you know and I don't.
On accHOWENT of you're askin LIARS DOG ABUSERS
COWARDS and ACTIVE ACUTE CHRONIC LONG TERM
INCURABLE MENTAL CASES:
YOU DO THE MATH
Lois E.
-------------------------------------
Full moon.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
> > "What kind of structure do you have around the yard?"
>
> -A 6 foot fence with a dig proof barrier around the bottom.
>
> > "Sounds like a fun yard!"
>
> -It will be for a puppy. Didn't realize this was the
> landscaping forum. Don't worry though, you won't have
> to come by and look at my mostly boring yard.
Like HOWE janet done when she aggitated that little
DEAD DOG janet MURDERED in "interested in hearing"
in front of his SHOCK FENCE <{); ~ ) >
> > "How do you know that? Have you HAD a lab puppy before?"
>
> -Because there is nothing else in my yard.
It's NICE that you're enterTRAINING these MENTAL CASES.
> I have had a puppy, not a lab puppy.
A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES;
As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.
ALL Critters
Only Respond In PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
> Why the attitude again?
Perhaps janet needs to ROTATE HER ANTI-PSYCHOTIC MEDS?
> Why are you arguing things like what I have in my
> yard when you don't know anything about it, and
> I've repeated that there isn't anything else to
> mess up in the yard several times now.
You're dealin with LIARS DOG ABUSERS and MENTAL PATIENTS:
"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:
"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
ginge...@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.
"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.
Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."
8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).
If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.
This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."
> > "But lab pups are notorious for chewing and
> > finding things to do when they're bored.
THAT'S IDIOCY. BORED DOGS SLEEP. AnXXXIHOWES DOGS DESTROY STUFF.
> > If you're working all day and not coming home, that means
> > she isn't getting any interaction, training, or exercise
> > all day.
Perhaps you can get a couple of automatic shock
systems like janet's DEAD STUDENT in "interested
in hearing"?
> > Hope you're planning on a lot once home, but that
> > won't stop her from getting bored and destructive
> > during the day."
THAT'S INSANE.
> -She'll be getting plenty of attention at night of course,
> and some during lunch during the week, hopefully every day.
> We also have a rat terrier, which will be outside with the
> lab during the day.
Your newfHOWEND pals can't train their own opposite
sex dogs not to attack each other <{); ~ ) >
> I'm fine with getting tips and advice from people,
INDEED?
> but absolutely can't stand the arrogance and attitude
> I get sometimes. You're representing a website, and
> a business I assume,
JUST LIKE MOST of the EXXXPERTS here abHOWETS
who CAN'T TRAIN THEIR OWN DOGS to stay in their
own yards DESPITE THEIR SHOCK FENCES.
> why not be a little more modest with your advice,
janet AIN'T GOT nodoGdameneD ADVICE other than HURT
INTIMIDATE MUTILATE and CRATE and AVOID TRAINING
your dog.
> and less assuming and attacking?
BWEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
janet's Kat's Scat Mat -
"Undiagnosable, Untreatable Problems Are
Incredibly Frustrating. Thanks For Hanging
In There. Your Comrade In Not-Knowing-What-
The-Hell-Is-Wrong-With -Her-Cat,
HOWEDY People!
"Undiagnosable, Untreatable Problems Are Incredibly
Frustrating. Thanks For Hanging In There. Your Comrade
In Not-Knowing-What-The-Hell-Is-Wrong-With -Her-Cat,
Jennifer"
HOWEDY jennifer,
Jennifer wrote:
> crystal h via CatKB.com wrote:
>
> > Generally it seems that everyone on this board is
> > against using the "spray bottle"...
Of curse!
> > But if the spray bottle is as abusive as listed
> > on these boards, what other options are there?
Don't pay no never mind to them FREAKS who ARE AFRAID
of just tellin their critters "NO!" on accHOWENT of
they THINK it'll SCARE and MAKE THEIR PETS NEUROTIC.
> Eh? I've seen the opposite.
Naaaah?
> Lots of people on rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> recommend the use of a spray bottle,
That so? Mostly it's SHOCK DEVICES and vinegar
and lemon juice in the water. And settin MHOWES
traps (under newspaper so it won't HURT them)
and shock pads for their kats to step on when
they climb on their furniture to PISS and SHIT
on it, like HOWE janet boss does for her DECLAWED
FEAR AGGRESSIVE DEATHLY ILL KATS.
> though I personally use a can of compressed
> air because my cats hate the noise
SHAAAZZZAAAMMM?
> and it doesn't get water everywhere.
That's kindly of you, know HOWE kats HATE
being squirted and intimidated with WATER.
> Why would anyone think a spritz of water is abusive?
Of curse!
> --
> Jennifer
Well, COMPARED TO THIS, water is a TREAT.
Here's The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME AT IT's BEAST:
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: j1b...@aol.com (J1Boss)
Date: 24 Feb 2004 16:08:06 GMT
Subject: Re: Russian Blue running away - help!
> From: "Gail" g...@earthlink.net
> I wonder if a scat mat will help. It is a mat that is
> plugged in and emits a mild shock when the animal steps
> on it. I don't know if people stepping on it will cause
> the mat harm, though.
>
> Below is a link to it. I used them near bookcases when
> one of my cats started urinating there. They were great.
> Gail
A scat mat directly in front of the door, can be stepped
OVER by the humans, but teach the cat to avoid the door area.
I think it's a great solution.
BTW they can run on a 9V battery, so no wires are needed.
They are fixtures on my leather furniture to stop kitties
from peeing there!
Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: Janet B <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 14:18:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Electric shock pad
On 8 Aug 2005 11:03:01 -0700, "mystro"
<highpur...@gmail.com>, clicked
their heels and said:
> I'm trying to find a link or resource for purchasing
> training shock pad,a pad that gives a slight shock
> using flashlight batteries and perfectly harmless and
> from what little I've read..quite effective.
>
> Help :)
it's called a Scat Mat. Google that and you'll find several sources.
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.co m
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ bestfriendsobedience/album
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: j1b...@aol.com (J1Boss)
Date: 03 Nov 2003 19:25:20 GMT
Subject: Re: Keeping cat out of room.
>From: "Iso" nos...@hotmail.com
>The mats, regardless of what you think WORK and are HARMLESS.
Just another opinion that Scat Mats are pretty useful tools.
Rather than have my youngest cat continue to ruin my
leather furniture, we have Scat Mats on the sofa and
chair.
When they are off, and we're sitting on that furniture,
Skip is allowed on and in our laps, etc. When the mats
are on, I can be happy with the fact that he's not
urinating on the leather!
The static charge isn't much at all - it's a deterrent,
and a good one.
Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040512151017...@mb-m19.aol.com...
> Leah wrote:
> > Ian Dunbar has me convinced that (1) a dog
> > who lunges and bites and doesn't even HURT
> > is not a dangerous dog,
> Interesting. I just read someone else's take
> on the same seminar, and let's say they had
> a very different opinion than yours.
> I also disagree with his opinion. dangerous
> comes in many forms.
> PLEASE Leah - read, listen and don't jump
> on any "I am goD" bandwagons. Take
> all information for what it is - opinion.
> Janet Boss
> http://bestfriendsdogobedience .com/
> http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfr iendsobedience
From: "Jennifer" <msjh...@gmail.com>
Date: 13 May 2005 07:25:15 -0700
Subject: Re: diagnosis frustration
Janet B wrote:
>
> Even when the answers are bad, I like ANSWERS. Where
> my little Carey-kitty is involved, we never seem to have
> any. She's been "sick" for the last 3 years and we've
> never been able to figure out just what's going on with her.
> I'm trying to not add up the costs, as they just keep mounting.
I completely agree. Undiagnosable, untreatable problems are
incredibly frustrating. Thanks for hanging in there.
Your comrade in not-knowing-what-the-hell-is
-wrong-with-her-cat, Jennifer
BWEEEEAAAAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
janet's kats are DYING from STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME:
From: Janet B <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 08:30:03 -0400
Subject: diagnosis frustration
Even when the answers are bad, I like ANSWERS. Where my little
Carey-kitty is involved, we never seem to have any. She's been
"sick" for the last 3 years and we've never been able to figure
out just what's going on with her. I'm trying to not add up the
costs, as they just keep mounting.
Carey is an almost 12 year old tortie with numerous problems over
the 3 years, related to behavior, urinary issues, weight loss, and
early on, paralysis as well. We've had tests out the wazoo, have
seen standard general practice vets as well as a neurologist, tried
various medications, and we still have no real answers.
I'm hoping those come soon, but the preliminary aren't great choices.
After raising her Elavil level to combat inappropriate urination, she
tore her ACL. That appears to be healing slowly. She's been at the
vet numerous times in the last few weeks and we started seeing a
different vet, closer to home this week.
That was after she projectile vomited 2 meals, and was passing bloody
urine, on Monday. After a few small puddles of that, her urine was
not bloody and she was back to eating without problem. All day
Tuesday was fine. Saw vet on Wednesday, and x-rayed her bladder, and
embarked on more tests (last full bloodwork was last August). She has
a HUGE palpable thyroid gland, yet her thyroid tests (free T-4 still
waiting) have all been normal. She weighs 7# and is skin and bones,
and has been for quite a long time. She eats well (1 full can of
Trader Joe's cat food and 1/2 can Fancy Feast daily) and plays with
the other cat, loves on the dogs, etc.
5 minutes after coming home from the vet on Wednesday, she squatted
on the floor and let loose a large puddle of bloody urine. No blood
in urine since. Her urinalysis shows no issues.
Her kidneys look fine on x-rays, but her test results show renal
insufficiency, but not failure.
We're still waiting for more test results, but so far,
we have no answers. Does anyone have any thoughts?
--
From: Janet B <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:16:20 -0400
Subject: Re: diagnosis frustration
On Fri, 13 May 2005 08:57:31 -0500, kaeli
<tiny_...@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote:
> I'm sorry to hear Carey has been so sick.
> My first thought was not a good one -- cancer.
Thanks. Unfortunately, that's what my vet has said as well.
Having dealt with it with a few pets now, it didn't hit me
quite like the ton of bricks as the first time I heard that
diagnosis, but it still is hard to hear that it's a potential.
The last 2 days, she's been galloping and eating and acting
like "hey - I'm ok - no problem - don't worry about me!".
She's a tough little cat, but obviously not a well one.
She's adored by all beings in this household, so we'll do
whatever we need to for her as we find out (or not) more.
Right now she's curled up with her kitty-"brother" and
seems happy as she can be.
--
Janet B
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: j1b...@aol.com (J1Boss)
Date: 04 Nov 2003 21:35:43 GMT
Subject: Re: Declawing: glad I took the time
Kaeli wrote:
> Some of us feel that declawing a cat is tantamount
> to torture. You don't torture something you profess
> to love. Period. You don't even take the chance that
> it might be tortured. Period.
I fully understand that (and the analogy of other groups
who feel strongly about issue "x"). I think there is a
very, very large group of people who choose or think about
declawing, do so not because they want to take a chance
that the animal they love may be tortured, but because
of a variety of experiences/advice that says it's an ok
thing to do (not torture in general - declawing!).
Take the neighbor's attitude ("just" a cat? NO cat is
"just" anything! ;-D). One shared by many, to some degree.
Lot's of priorities. Interesting thread on RPDB recently
about people willing to die/put themselves in the line of
fire for their dogs.
It was interesting to read the range of thoughts on such
a thing. Obviously, people give different weight to
different beings and things.
While I am their caregiver and friend, I don't put
pets in the same category as humans.
I declawed my first cat, because my experiences said that
is what you did with an indoor cat (had lived with many
cats owned by others). She used her claws inappropriately
as a kitten, and my meager attempts at clawing devices
didn't work, so I thought nothing of it.
Since she exhibited no obvious ill effects, my experience
(and hers as far as anyone could tell) was a positive one.
Knowing more of what it entailed, I chose not to declaw my
next cat (owned in tandem with cat #1 and then cat #3).
He was an adult acquisition and I knew such a thing would
be more difficult for him, but also, he was very trainable
and I didn't even consider it.
Cat #3 was a claw maniac, and due to my experiences with
Cat #1, I went ahead with a declaw. Once again, I have
never seen any backlashes due to the operation, and I
would put up with anything if I'm lucky enough to have
her for many more years, which isn't all that likely.
She's doing well on meds currently, and maintaining,
if not gaining any weight.
Once I was ready for cat #4, I knew that I wouldn't choose
this route again. Not because of gory pictures, not because
of scare tactics about what my declawed cat would become,
but because I realized that more tools could make the
difference and it wasn't something that I really wanted
to do.
I didn't want to cause a kitten pain (even though others
didn't seem to experience any!), nor any physical or
emotional problems. So, I have a fully clawed cat who
pees on things - oh well! ;-D He's a wonderful cat in
every other way!
> If you love your furniture more than your cat's right
> to not be mutilated, you are going to draw some venom
> in a cat newsgroup.
Again, why is it either/or?
Can't someone value their belongings and their cat too?
I choose to protect my furniture with Sticky Paws (I forgot
they were there - probably time to take them off - it's been
almost 2 years with no interest!) and with Scat Mats (not
from claws but from urine).
Some folks posting here think that's a horrible thing to do.
People who have obviously never felt a Scat Mat! But balloons,
snappy trainers, etc are recommended. A lot of contradictory
thoughts here, so I can't say that it's all rational.
Passion rarely is though - and I actually appreciate
that for the most part!
It's obvious that each one of us has our own limits.
Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: j1b...@aol.com (J1Boss)
Date: 23 Jan 2004 21:21:29 GMT
Subject: Re: Protecting leather furniture
> But would a scat mat keep a cat from clawing
> the side of the couch?
>--
>~kaeli~
no - it's only good for the pee problem!
Never showed any interest in clawing, and
"launch" marks disappeared easily, as good
leather "heals" itself.
Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: j1b...@aol.com (J1Boss)
Date: 04 Jun 2003 12:10:19 GMT
Subject: a few frustrations - a little long.
Mostly venting, but any thoughts are welcome!
#1 - Skipjack. 1.5 y.o. neutered male blue tabby.
Incredibly sweet and affectionate, sleeps against me
all night, on my lap every moment he can be. Eats well
(Solid Gold dry, various brands of canned - small amounts -
not much interest), uses his litter box, only scratches
his tree and a few mats that have been approved, and is
a very nice cat. Let's anyone carry him around forever
and is very social. Gets along well with 2 dogs and
another cat. But................
He also urinates on other things. Sofas (where we sit) -
frequency of maybe every few months. Wires. Phone or
speaker wires (thin), that are at floor level. Scrapes
around at them and urinates on them on hard surface flooring.
Maybe once every few weeks. Dog beds and dog's sofa
(I have baby mattress pads on these, under the covers
in order to just have to do wash!) - once every few
weeks. Guest bed - used or freshly washed sheets.
Full laundry basket - random, if available, not often.
Anything that can go in the wash has gotten soaked and
washed in hot water, Oxyclean added. Anything not machine
washable gets a thorough cleaning with Simple Solution Cat
Urine Cleaner (which I found seems to work better than Nature's
Miracle for this).
Feliway has been used to varying success.
Most recently, he urinated on a sofa cushion within a
few hours of spraying it with Feliway.
I have 2 cats, 2 litterboxes. One crystals, which he prefers,
one scoopable, which my other cat prefers. Both are kept
incredibly clean. No problem using the box, even when workmen
were in the room - I see him use it regularly and tell him what
a good kitty he is for doing so.
A little history - when he came home at 5 months old last
February (2002), he had a bad case of the squirts and managed
to fly around with liquid poop being released all over my sofas.
We cleared that up, washed everything thoroughly (sofas have
2 sets of machine washable slipcovers, and the leather sofa
he christened has a scat mat on it now), and thought we had
conquered any problems.
He is quite the perfect cat except for this issue and it's
very random as to where and when he decides to urinate.
I'm not happy with the situation of course, and can't quite
figure out what's going on. He doesn't have a UTI and has
normal elimination patterns as far as frequency.
He does not do this in my bedroom, the other guest bedroom,
the kitchen or dining room.
If you've read this far, I have another cat and problem! ;-D
#2 Carey. Almost 10 y.o. spayed tortie. Neurological problems
(probabl brain tumor, other things ruled out). Has been on Pred
and Valium for a bit over a year, and has dropped from a bit over
9# to less than 7# (all thyroid tests came back normal).
She's a happy and sweet cat who bugs me for her pills every
morning. She has a problem with raised (even happy) voices
where she attacks the dogs. I've talked about that here before.
The dogs are saints and have never reacted adversely to her
doing this. I can pick her up during these episodes and she
doesn't attack me, but is hell bent on trying to attack the
dogs. There have been times where the dogs noises have
triggered this. She gets along well with the younger cat.
She adores the dogs otherwise, and that's really the problem
more than the attacking (we've all kind of learned to live
with that!).
She obsesses over them.
When she was a kitten, she nursed on my Golden Retriever
so much that she needed surgery for hair blockage. She
ceased the behavior until she was 5.5 and when another
dog died, then she resumed.
She transferred that to another dog after the Golden died
1.5 years later, and now it's just increased to a difficult
level.
She does this to both of my dogs, mostly at nighttime or
whenever they are napping in my bedroom. She will do it
to the one dog in other locations as well. During the day,
it's not so bad.
The dogs look confused but tolerate it, even though she's
latched onto them with her mouth and rear claws. She
attaches herself to various parts of their bodies.
Nighttime is the problem - we're not getting any sleep!
Skipjack sleeps on the bed, the dogs sleep on their dog
beds or her favorite dog sleeps under the bed.
She will not leave her alone!
Poor Lucy gets up and leaves the room, only for Carey
to follow her, and she winds up pacing around, which
keeps us awake. She just isn't deterred. She can be
lifted off, tossed off, grumbled at, but she will not
leave the dogs alone until she's good and ready.
The only rooms that can be closed off are either across
the hall or under our room. She's a very vocal cat and
will meow like crazy if confined away from everyone else,
so that won't help sleep.
Any thoughts of novel things to try with either of these
kitties? I adore them but their habits are driving me
up the wall at times!
Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had apointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
Jerking choking and shockin and lockin dogs
in boxes and ignoring their cries makes their
dogs go "EWWWW" but they don't NOTICE
EXXXCEPT to spray BINACA in their eyes
and jerk and choke them on pronged spiked
pinch choke collars and shock and spray MOORE
aversives in their faces.
Do you think the citronella collar is CRUEL cause
the SMELL LINGERS after the dog's been sprayed
in the face and the dog won't know HOWE COME
IT was MACED?
> > My dogs are not human children wearing
> > fur- they are DOGS.
They're DUMB ANIMALS they HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER.
Here's your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?G34D2527A
Just ASK The Amazing Puppy Wizard if you
need any additional FREE heelp. There's NO
arbritrary INFORMATION in your FREE copy
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual so
study it well and do and follow ALL the
EXXXERCISES AS INSTRUCTED... it's a
PRECISE SCIENCE or it COULDN'T GET 100%
CONSISTENT NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS for all
handlers and all dogs in all fields or
utilities and behaviors all over the Whole
Wild World <{) ; ~ ) >
ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
You GET The Critter You TRAINED
A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
ALL Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING
Jer 21 And unto this people thou shalt say,
Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I set before
you The Way Of Life, And The Way Of Death.
2Ki 19:6 And Isaiah said unto them, Thus
shall ye say to your master, Thus saith
the LORD, Be not afraid of the words which
thou hast heard, with which the servants of
the king of Assyria have blasphemed me.
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not so send peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against
his father, and the daughter against her mother
and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.
The Puppy Prophet <{); ~ ) >
All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(((' (((-((('' ((((
|\ _.-'~~""'~`'~)
/, ~-,__,,,.'~ ,-;;--''
|,4) ./ ' ; ;/'
'-~~;'@ ( ; ;
_.--'' _.-_..' .;.'
(,_..----''' (,..--''
Meow
/),,/)
( ' ; ')
(,,)-(,,)
/),,/)
(' ; ') kiss me
(,,)-(,,)
/),,/)
( ; ' ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)
/),,/)
( ; ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)
/)
( * ) and KISS ME HERE!
(,,)-(,,)
The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{); ~ ) >
It's Only Alimentary, Dear Watson
iantw...@gmail.com wrote:
>> "3 month old puppies? You bet. You DO know you're getting a PUPPY,
>> right? And that s/her has physical needs?" "You'd be amazed at some of
>> the "nice" neighborhoods where weird stuff happens. And yes, there are
>> rock eaters and that can kill a puppy/dog. Dogs can do weird things when
>> they're bored. Have you HAD a dog before?" "Crate training has many
>> advantages, one being that it's indoors. "locking her in a crate for hours
>> at a time" is a way of putting it to make it sound awful, or "safely confining
>> in a crate for periods of time", which is reasonable, safe, humane, and
>> generally, a good idea. There are many benefits to crate training. Where
>> will she be overnight?" "Once again, you'd be surprised. If you think your
>> community is not at risk, you are wrong." "What kind of structure do you
>> have around the yard?" "Sounds like a fun yard!" "How do you know that?
>> Have you HAD a lab puppy before?" "But lab pups are notorious for chewing
>> and finding things to do when they're bored. If you're working all day and not
>> coming home, that means she isn't getting any interaction, training, or exercise
>> all day. Hope you're planning on a lot once home, but that won't stop her from
>> getting bored and destructive during the day."
>
> I'm fine with getting tips and advice from people, but absolutely can't
> stand the arrogance and attitude I get sometimes. You're representing
> a website, and a business I assume, why not be a little more modest
> with your advice, and less assuming and attacking?
Well then, it seems you just need some PUPPY RAISIN TIPS.
LIKE THIS, from HOWER OWN lying frosty and her congenital idiot
"STICK MAN" dahl, professional ETHICKAL Labradorable dog breeders:
"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1...@uwm.edu...
> >Di,
> I don't believe you mentioned a particular kind of training. If you
> are interested in training retrieval behavior than do consider
> our own Amy Dahl's:
> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a Well-Mannered, Obedient and
> Enthusiastic Gun Dog in 10 Minutes a Day
> by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl
You failed to mention your pals the dahls are proven liars and dog
abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There
Is A Single Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything
But Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get a good working dog
by
making them unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty
dahl
who continues:
> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the few regulars here who
> are either ill-tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem Quite Harsh And
Cause You To Cringe. This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few
Times It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."
And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."
Here's lying frosty dahl BEATING A DOG to TRAIN IT:
Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from
professional trainers, John and Amy Dahl.
"Around four months many puppies can withstand a
correction. Unfortunately this is the time they start
teething and if their mouth hurts, they may act
generally sensitive. If this is the case, be patient and
wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.
In training, retrievers often respond to physical correction
better than verbal correction. While "NO!" is extremely
useful if puppy is about to bite an electrical cord or steal
food off the table, when you are teaching them something
(like obedience) a sharp jerk on their lead or swat with a
stick gets the message across with less emotion and less
effect on their confidence.
If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts
when they are teething, stop all retrieving and wait for
their mouth to feel better. A correction should be just
severe enough to get the dog to respond.
Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the dog."
=====================
Amy Dahl writes:
"From where I sit, there is a difference. I haven't noticed
any of the contingent who like Koehler trying to force
their method on everyone, or calling others names because
they do not use the method.
I personally believe the Koehler method is a more
humane way of teaching than any alternative I have
studied.
And I am not averse to learning--I have studied a I have studied a
number of methods.
Koehler, of course, stops far short of the specialized
work I do with retrievers, and some of the things in his
book, such as making the dog walk behind the handler
on the "finish," are inappropriate for retriever work.
Why do I think Koehler's method is more humane than others?
First, I don't believe "corrections vs. no corrections" is as
significant to dogs as it is to people. Applied correctly,
Koehler's method uses *no* intimidation, fear, or emotional
manipulation. It is clear and definite, and the handler's
actions are always predictable. The method is masterfully
designed to prevent confrontation or vying for control in
any way. It places high demands of responsibility on the
trainer, and takes a great deal of commitment to do correctly,
so it is not for the casual "dabbler." When done well,very
few corrections are needed.
In brief, I think the clarity, predictability, and absence
of emotional blackmail weigh more strongly in the method's
favor, than the occasional brief unpleasantness of correction
weighs against it." lying frosty dahl.
END lyingfrosty dahl
Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory
Subject: Soft Dogs = An Iron Clad Case Of Dog Abuse - (Stick Man) dahl.
HOWEDY People,
Without ever having read this article in advance, I've written
the subject header and intend to go through the dahl article
to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that our expert field dog
trainers are incompetent lying dog abusing Thugs.
> Oak Hill Kennel
> Soft Dogs
So called soft dogs means a dog that'll collapse to the ground
or shake and quiver for days after being shocked, choked,
pinched, and beaten. That's what our field dog trainers breed
DOWN for, to get a dog that won't bite them when they
viciously pinch and twist their ears between spikes or the
buckle of their collars and the brass of a shot shell.
> by John and Amy Dahl
> First published in The Retriever Journal, December/January
> 1997-98
> There is not universal agreement as to the meaning of the
> term "soft" in describing a retriever.
Because there's no rhyme or reason to ever hurting a field dog
to make them interested in working... hunting. That's the most
NATURAL thing in the world for a Retriever Dog to do.
> Many enthusiasts confuse lack of desire or recalcitrance in
> training with softness
You mean the dog's withdrawal to defend itself by cowering
and shaking and pleading not to be HURT someMOORE.
> while others label shyness, spookiness, and other
> deficiencies of attitude as softness.
What else would we expect our dog abusers to say when they're
jerking and choking and pinching a dog to motivate them to
want to work with them as their partners? Oh. That's the
problem. Our field dog training experts do not train their
dogs to be partners, they hurt and intimidate and force their
dogs to do as they're told, or get HURT.
> We apply the term softness more simply to the inability or
> unwillingness of a retriever to respond well to heavy force.
PAIN, INTIMIDATION, CHOKING, SHOCKING, and BEATING.
> When dealing with such a dog,
In my nearly forty years of specializing in temperament and
behavior problems in mostly giant breed dogs I've never found
the need to beat a dog with a stick. And it's been over twenty
five years since I've used a correction... I've learned alot
during my career.
> the use of pressure (pain, jh) must be restricted to the level
> at which a desirable response is achieved, without overwhelming
> the dog.
Well isn't that NICE of you! You don't approve of overly
HURTING your dogs to motivate them to want to work and do
everything you ask.
> Although there seems to be a tendency among some to drop a
> soft dog like the proverbial hot potato,
Because they can't train a dog without HURTING it. Why must
you experts HURT dogs to train them? There isn't anything you
do in field work that I don't need to do for protection work,
just a little different spin, that's all. Dog training is dog
training and a dog is a dog.
> we find the soft dog,
But not to our experts. Our experts have hard and soft and
lots of other euphemisms for temperament problems THEY CAUSE
in their absurd, vicious, warped training methods.
> on the average, no more difficult to train to top
> performance than the "hard"
> dog -- the dog which is not very susceptible to pain.
Notice our experts are moore concerned with pain and HOWE to
administer it than actually motivating the dog to want to
work. That's where I start off teaching my students, HOWE to
command their dog's attention through praise and motivate
their dogs to naturally want to do everything they're asked
because that's the most NATURAL thing for a PACK animal to
WANT do, follow the directions of the pack leaders in a
hunt... The very most basic fundamental rule of dog training
is UNKNOWN to our experts.
> Often the soft dog can be taught lessons through light
> pressure more easily than the hard dog through heavy pressure.
What? What lessons are taught through pain and fear? Pain and
fear inhibit learning and memory recall and inhibit the dog
from TRYING out of fear of being HURT someMOORE.
> Parenthetically, we would deceive ourselves,
You ain't deceiving nobody no moore. I'm blowing the whistle
on you BIG TIME.
> and fail to deal with the project of training a dog
> properly,
PROPERLY? HURTING DOGS IS NOT PROPER.
> if we did not admit that all correction has an element of
> pain, physical or emotional, in it.
Sorry, lyng frosty dahl. Only dog abusing Thugs need to
inflict pain, fear, and intimidation into a learning
situation.
> The key is to understand the
The nature of our dog abusing trainers. They're mentally
deficient, and incompetent when it comes to handling and
training dogs, or they wouldn't NEED to HURT them.
> use of pressure and to apply it to a degree and with a
> frequency that will get the job done without making the dog go
sour.
But it may make some dogs go sour... isn't that correct? NO.
That's not correct. There's no correct way to hurt and
intimidate a dog to train it.
> Soft dogs are not all soft in the same areas or to the same
degree.
Yes, I expect you'd know all about the different ways dogs
experess pain and fear.
> Some soft dogs lack drive,
Could that be because you're HURTING and INTIMIDATING them,
lying frosty dahl?
> range,
That could be because they know you can't HURT them at a
distance...or in field trials.
> birdiness,
Perhaps the pain has something to do with diminished desire to
even think about a bird???
> or initiative.
HOWE could your hickory stick fail to motivate your dogs???
> These failings are not necessarily related to softness
Right. They're related to incompetent uncaring vicious rotten
dog abusing Thugs hurting dogs because they don't understand
HOWE to train them without inflicting PAIN and INTIMIDATING
them.
> and are about equally common in average and hard dogs.
You mean a dog is a dog, dahl?
> Slowness, dislike of the water, and avoidance of difficult
> cover may all occur in the temperamentally soft dog, but again
> are not necessarily a result of the softness.
Moore doubletalk.
> Dogs that are extremely susceptible to discomfort in cold
> water, may, however, be described as having a form of
> softness that prevents their becoming good cold water dogs,
> even with extensive training.
I wouldn't know... I'm afraid of cold unless it's food.
> When we think of soft dogs we more often think of those we
> know or have trained who were soft in the sense that it took
> very little physical force to make them comply.
Oh, now that's a switch (pardon the pun).
> Often these dogs were extremely talented, had great drive
> and speed, were birdy and intelligent and had endearing
> personalities. Several made excellent field trial performers.
Rare is it that you have a dog you don't need to hurt a lot?
> Modern electric collars can make training less traumatic for
> soft dogs such as this golden bitch
Yes, shocking the dog is much nicer than beating and twisting
its ears and choking IT...
> One of these was FC/AFC Jaffer's Blackie. Blackie was a
> large dog with great drive, intelligence, and charisma. He
> was soft. A lesson could be taught to him quickly with
> little pressure,
You mean without hurting and intimidating him much?
> and he would retain it.
Yes. Research into learning tells us we cannot learn and
retain and recall information if we are in pain and under
duress.
> Shortly after Blackie came in for training, at 2 1/2 years
> of age, John was running the dog on some lining problems when
> Blackie stopped midway to the dummies
You and john were in front of the dog?
> and plastered his nose to the ground. He was glued to bitch
> scent from a female who had run the test previously.
Well, that would make a dog trainer angry, wouldn't it?
> John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and gave the
> dog two or three medium whacks on the rump with a training
> stick while holding him partially off the ground.
What is this "training stick?" I've never used a stick except
to throw for the dog to play with. You beat your dogs in
training with a stick.
> John then told Blackie to sit, ran back to the line and cast
> him back to the dummies.
And the dog came to you and your dh dog abuser?
> Blackie responded beautifully and we can't remember his ever
> putting his nose down while being run on a test again.
Because you were smart enough to pick IT off the ground and
BEAT IT.
> He was an example of a dog having all the right
> characteristics of a competitive retriever
You mean Blackie didn't try to defend himself as any
respectable dog would do because he's been beaten down.
> while soft enough to learn the lessons quickly and with
> little pressure.
Seems to me you'd do well to get the heel outta this business
before you end up in jail for animal abuse.
> FC Oak Hill Exponent (Pudge) was another example of a soft
> dog with great drive, speed, and cold water ability. Pudge
> was so soft that she could and would avoid a simple swat on
> the rump with a riding crop, even when on a check cord.
Why would you want to beat a dog with a horse whip while it's
tied to a tree?
> This form of softness, moving quickly to avoid physical
> correction,
Amazing! The dog has the audacity to avoid being beaten by
you?
> made her difficult in some ways,
Yeah. You had a hard time BEATING her cause she keeps ducking,
you pig.
> but she was so susceptible to what pressure we were able to
> apply
You mean you was able to train her even though you kept
missing hitting her with your horse whip?
> that her learning rate was almost unbelievable.
Oh. Maybe she became so confident she could outmanouver you
swinging your horse whip that she was able to relax enough to
figure out HOWE COME you were beating her???
> When she was three years old,
Did she make it to four, or did she throw herself into the
ocean to avoid being beaten anyMOORE?
> even though she was an excellent marker, she
> couldn't do tests having two bird throwers close together.
> Faced with this situtation, Pudge couldn't decide which one
> to go to and would pop (stop and look back) out of
> confusion.
That's the same problem you guys have with the glove in the
directed retrieve and the other example you mentioned the
other day about the dog going to the previous exercise when
the field is changed... you HURT the dog and that's why they
go out of control. Same problem for barking on line in susan
fraser's example where she and lyingdogDUMMY concluded they've
got to "steady" the dog moore by BEATING HIM for barking, the
reason he barks in the first place... kinda like homeopathy.
> This behavior was making it difficult to teach her the more
> challenging marking tests.
The dog was scared out of her wits, becase you and your dummy
husband BEAT HER.
> Pudge had had two force-on-back programs with a stick
You mean you needed to beat her for two hours...
> and a long 100-yd cord before this and was well forced to
> go.
You let her run full tilt for 100 yards and then jerk her
assoverbucket to teach her a lesson. That's a good way to
cripple or kill a dog.
> John's solution to the popping on marks was to put the
> electric collar on her -- with no preliminary conditioning
> we are ashamed to say, as we would not do this today -
Well let's talk about that, since you refuse to discuss this
aspect in our snake proofing discussions... From your own
words, the dog must be properly conditioned to the collar
before and after the training involving introducing the dog to
the shock, so the dog doesn't become DEPENDENT on wearing the
shock collar to be TRAINED... IOW, our so called snake
proofing lessons are INEFFECTIVE unless the dog has been
properly conditioned to the shock collar, a proceedure that
requires at least a week, preferable two weeks and a few days
of wearing the collar after the training has been effected to
OUTWIT the dog into responding even in the absence of DURESS,
i.e. wearing his shock collar. Got it? Your snake proofing
methods are faulty, and you and I know this, and NOBODY is
saying nothing, but KILLFILE JERRY.
> - and send Pudge on her marks. When she popped he would give
> the back cast with transmitter in hand, nick her lightly
> with the collar,
You mean SHOCK her. Let's discuss corrections. Every
incompetent trainer who uses force will agree that a light
correction is going to nag the dog and NOT be effective, and
may even provoke the dog. So, are you giving an ineffective
lite correction, or are you giving the dog an EFFECTIVE
correction.
As a koehler trainer, you know as well as I do that koehler
would solidly chastise you for giving lite corrections, as he
has stressed throughout his definitive treatise on PAIN and
INTIMIDATION methods of TRAINING.
> and holler "Back!" This worked so well that after two or
> three sessions of this kind Pudge stopped popping, drove
> back to her birds, and made her FC within the year.
So, evidentally the lite corrections were EFFECTIVE
corrections. That's why I've offered one thousand dollars for
any trainer to train a dog while wearing a dual tuned shock
collar themselves... lite corrections my @$$.
> On the other extreme, the really hard dogs we have trained
> require much more frequent and heavy application of pressure
> to get the job done. Such were Dual Ch/AFC Warpath Macho,
> who was extremely difficult to get to stop on a whistle, and
> FC Penney's Nifty Bouncer, who had convinced himself and
> almost us that he would never wait until he was sent to take
> off after a bird. Both of these dogs, although excellent
> performers, needed frequent and convincing use of physical
> force to keep them under wraps. They, too, were happy, hard
> workers, but being tough they were higher maintenance dogs
> in training.
Yeah. Are there any two letters in the alphabet (FC, JH, CH,
etc.) worth beating your dog over?
Any "trainer" who has to hurt their dog to make him work,
should get the heel outta this business and leave the work to
those who know HOWE to outwit a puppy dog without beating him.
> What degree of softness, and in combination with what other
> traits, might we want in an hypothetical "ideal" retriever?
Why don't you learn HOWE to make your dogs enjoy working with
you and teach them what you want them to do, instead of just
beating choking and shocking it into them?
> The late Mike Paterno, who trained and handled the famed
> NAFC/FC Dee's Dandy Dude, once said "The easiest dog to
> train is a soft fast dog. The hardest dog to train is a
> fast hard dog."
I just love it when two dog abusers talk about abusing dogs.
You'll notice their discussions have no meaning to anyone
other than a dog abuser.
> There is a good deal of truth in this statement.
Yeah. For the same reasons as you couldn't lay your horse whip
on Pudge.
> The fast soft dog may have plenty of speed, style,
> and momentum to make a top retriever while being responsive
> enough to be brought under control easily. Conversely, the
> hard fast dog -- already tough to get under control --
> covers so much ground so rapidly that a single cast or
> whistle refusal often puts him beyond recovery.
IOW he's outta HURTING range.
> In trials this gives an overall appearance of discipline
> failure, and in training makes teaching hazard concepts
> difficult as he can get out of the area of the hazard so
> quickly.
That doesn't have to be the case. If you didn't HURT the dog,
he'd listen.
> A soft dog, especially a smart soft dog, can be particularly
> well-suited to a beginning trainer.
For the reason above, LESS NEED TO HURT IT means the dog
learns faster and remembers easier...
> A novice training his or her first dog is usually willing to
> adapt the methods to the dog,
Good point. If you had effective methods, the dog would adapt
to the method. That's called TRAINING, isn't it, lying frosty
dahl.
> and to invest the time and tennis-shoe soles needed to teach
> each concept with minimal pressure.
You mean they're willing to actually work at training the dog
instead of just beating choking shocking and pinching and
twisting its ears and toes and testicles and shooting it with
slingshots?
> Such a team are Lane and Huck, who have
> recently begun training with us a couple of times a week.
> Huck (the dog) is very intelligent, soft, and responsive.
> Until his move to our area, Lane had no guidance on how to
> train him.
You mean he managed to train his dog without the help of
watching at the heel of an expert dog abuser like you?
> He noticed that the books contradict one another
Imagine that? And I've discredited all the books...
> and treated them with (appropriate) skepticism.
Get outta this busines... dog abuser.
> Using his intuition and his knowledge of what he wanted
> the dog to know -- and his voice -- Lane had taught Huck to
> mark multiple falls and to handle extremely well. Our input
> has been to explain field trials and the types of tests Huck
> needs to learn to compete. Right now it looks as though Huck
> will be competitive in the Derby.
Imagine that, he managed to train a dog WITHOUT HURTING IT???
SHAAAZZZAAAM!!!
> Lane's commands are unconventional, but who cares? Huck is a
> wonderful example of what a soft dog can achieve for a
> dedicated trainer who pays attention to the dog's response
> and employs a light touch.
YET YOU PREFER TO INFLICT PAIN and INTIMIDATION because you're
an incompetent dog abusing Thug.
> By the same token, a soft or sensitive dog will fare less
> well with a trainer who is predisposed to train all
> individuals exactly the same and with plenty of force. And
> conversely, a hard dog might require more force than many
> novices are willing to apply.
I just love to hear a dog abuser discuss abusing dogs...
> Bitches as a general rule tend to be somewhat softer than
> males, and this may explain the high level of performance
> they often achieve in the hunting field and in trials. Being
> more easily trained by less physical pressure, they learn
> quickly and retain lessons well.
Hey? That's what I've been telling you bums for years. Now you
notice. NOW you FORGET and resume HURTING the dog again.
> This is by no means universally applicable, of course.
Of course, that's HOWE come you got that title LYING in front
of your name, lying frosty dahl.
> When we think of such bitches as Nodak Bonnie Girl; Want To
> (Missy), one of the best bitches we have ever worked with;
> or Scarlett of Lakestone, also extremely talented, we are
> also reminded that great hardness is by no means exclusive
> to males.
Ahhh. Good. I like to remember all the dogs I've hurt in the
past because I didn't know any better. But the problem is,
your list of recent memory is already bigger than my entire
list of forty years professionally working with mostly giant
breeds with handler aggression problems from dogs having been
abused by lying dog abusing Thugs like you, lying frosty dahl.
> Breed differences in softness may perhaps be best addressed
> by considering the Chesapeake Bay Retriever.
Yes, now there's a dog you're AFRAID to HURT cause they'll
likely defend themselves and let you have it, and customers
frown on their so called self proclaimed expert trainers
HANGING their dogs because they've been HURTING them and the
dog was provoked to ultimately defend himself.
> While they are considered the toughest of the retriever
> breeds by many writers, the Chesapeake in fact has a
> distinct inclination to softness.
Perhaps that's because you're AFRAID TO HURT THEM???
> We have seen many individuals of this breed who were so soft
> that the slightest tap with a training stick would make them
> flinch and cower.
Yes. The next move is to go for your throat. Dogs don't LIKE
being beaten.
> Some of these dogs can be well trained if they have great
> talent and drive,
But not by a dog abuser.
> but care must be taken to avoid traumatizing them with high
> levels of physical force;
Because they're likely to rip your goddamned throat out for
ya. I'd love to get you in court in front of a criminal jury
for dog abuse.
> the Chesapeake rarely can learn through these methods and is
> easily ruined.
That's why our Labrador lovers have bred their dogs DOWN to be
willing to tolerate being jerked and choked and beaten and
shocked and having their ears and toes and testicles pinched
and twisted.
> Labs and Goldens can be found in all combinations of
> softness and hardness, as well as with variations in
> speed, drive and other traits, but the same
> principles of training apply.
You mean if we don't hurt and intimidate the dog they learn
faster.
> Chesapeake Bay Retrievers are often soft
You mean they don't understand PAIN and INTIMIDATION. When
they collapse, that's when they get dangerous, because you
risk pushing their SURVIVAL INSTINCT button, and that's when
the dog turns on you. Chessies are too big for a gentle lady
like yourself to HANG unless you're prepared in advance with a
hitch on something or a nice tree limb or door to HANG your
student over till his eyes roll back in his head and his
tongue turns thick and blue and falls out the side of its
mouth and when you put IT on the ground it should stagger to
it's feet and PUKE, or you didn't freakin HANG IT PROPERLY...
as per your koehler book.
> In training the soft dog it is of utmost importance to show
> the dog what is expected of her or him.
Oy! What a miserable s.o.b. you are. A soft dog you're gonna
train, a tough dog you're gonna beat and shock and choke and
twist and pinch???
> Often the trainer must find a creative solution to make a
> concept clear to that particular dog.
You mean like my plan to see you criminally prosecuted as a
dog abuser?
> Once the dog understands through these demonstrations what
> you require, very little force is needed to get results.
Once you're committed to a criminal facility for the mentally
insane, we'll get laws passed protecting JQPubic from abusers
like you and janet boss and lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and
cindymooreon... and the rest of your Thug pals who call
themselves EXPERT dog trainers because they can beat a dog to
make it fearful enough to "REALLY DIG OUT to beat your
stick"...
> For example, many dogs need to be convinced to return from
> an opposite shore by water after getting their bird.
Yeah. Imagine if you called IT and IT realized you couldn't
HURT IT at that range? Maybe watch five or six months and a
cash customers dog flip you the dew claw and head for the
hills where he won't ever get shocked or choked or beaten or
chucked or cuffed or twisted or pinched. Damn, you got lots of
ways to HURT a dog, don't you? I've never done most of what
you teach.
> One common method is to first teach the "here" (come)
> command and collar condition the dog, then on the retrieve
> "here" "here" and they will plunge in
> and come back. Alternatively, the "here" command can be
> taught and thoroughly reinforced in the yard using
> distractions and correction (typically a jerk on a long
> check cord), until the dog is so reliable he or she can be
> called back across the water.
Well, seems nobody recommends jerking a dog to make IT come.
BUT SHOCKING IT seems to be in vogue. What's the difference?
You're punishing the dog for coming no matter HOWE to lie
about what you're doing. We'll discuss the come command in
another expose of our dog abusing Thugs.
> We currently have some Chesapeake puppies who need to learn
> this lesson.
You shove your fingers down their throats to choke them out of
mouthing anything, in the litter box. That's HOWE COME you got
to beat and choke and shock them to take the retrieve article.
> They are too small to wear the electric collar
Your pal fraudreck of sit means sit shock collar talk net
radio suggest punching some extra holes in the collar. Pretty
smart, huh?
> and as they are soft-natured
Until you start choking and beating them.
> and beginning to teethe (a condition which exacerbates
> softness in many dogs),
Yes, because you shove your fingers down their throats to
choke them out of mouthing ANYTHING, THAT'S WHY YOU GOT TO
HURT THEM TO PICK SOMETHING UP.
> the second method is much too harsh, so we are applying the
> soft-dog method. We demonstrate the principle by making it
> impossible to do anything but come straight back. We use a
> large trolling reel, 40 lb test monofilament
AND???
> and a trolling rod handle
To jerk and choke the puppy with...
> (end of the line attached to the puppy, of course).
Yes, the chokee.
> Put it in free spool and thumb the spool going out to avoid
> a backlash and when the dog reaches the far shore and the
> bird simply reel him back slowly but with steady pressure.
> If this is done correctly the dog will never panic and will
> take kindly to being guided directly back to his
> ever-so-forbearing trainer. Usually very few repetitions are
> necessary for the lesson to be learned.
Amazing! You didn't NEED to HURT the dog. But you did need to
hurt him up till then, because that's the nature of a dog
abusing Thug.
> This method is not for use in "cheating" situations but
> simply for getting a soft, unschooled dog to return and not
> mill around on the far shore.
Right. The "cheaters" get shocked, beaten, or choked IN
ADVANCE, to keep them honest.
> Every aspect of training should be made crystal clear to
> the soft dog before employing such methods as electric
> collar reinforcement, slingshot, etc.
Oh goody, we were talking about your use of the slingshot. You
denied you use it as koehler teaches. I've never read this web
page before as my stomach usually empties uncontrollably out
the wrong end when I read about hurting dogs to train them by
expert dog trainers who don't do what they say they do when
they're talking about not doing what they'd never do. Like
you've said, you'd never hit a dog.
> Another creative solution was needed for FC Glenspey's
> Evergreen Cricket, whom John got in training at 11 months of
> age. A talented bitch, Cricket was also very soft and had
> been treated roughly by others before she came here.
Where she'll be jerked and choked and shocked and beaten
PUPERLY.
> She would try to escape any physical correction and was good at
it.
You mean she wouldn't hold still in terror while you BEAT HER
cause some other bum trainer LOUSED HER UP by lettin her go
when they was whuppin her?
> She had become so shy of big men during her puppyhood
> that any hulking stranger of six feet in height could put
> her to flight.
Despite you shock and pronged spiked pinch choke collar and
training stick?
> In one Qualifying stake judged by a particularly large and
> heavy man, Cricket practically bolted
> when he raised his judge's book over her head to call for
> the birds in the first series.
Yeah... Course she wouldn't be afraid of a lady with a
training stick.
> This fear of large men had to be solved.
Yeah. Give her somethin to REALLY worry about.
> Cricket loved treats, and we capitalized on this by distributing
> treats to all of the large men we knew at a field trial -- there
are
> usually several. John would approach these men -- to
> Cricket, monsters -- with her on lead and casually encourage
> her up to them. The men, having been briefed, would call her
> up in a gentle way and feed her treats. It worked. Cricket
> lost her fear of big men and became competitive in field
> trials.
IMAGINE? Musta took months...
> The modern electric collar has become an excellent tool for
> reinforcement of taught commands among soft dogs in
> particular.
INDEED! They PREFER gettin BURNED, rather than BEATEN.
> By comparison, the emotion and drama of shouting
> and running out to the dog to make a correction,
You mean to HURT the dog because your EXPERT TRAINING failed.
> as needed in conventional training,
EXCUSE ME, lying frosty dahl. ONLY DOG ABUSERS NEED TO ABUSE DOGS
TO TRAIN THEM.
> can be too threatening for many soft dogs.
IMAGINE THAT??? Soft dogs... hrmph.
> Furthermore, the superior timing of corrections
You mean to HURT the dog puperly...
> with the collar generally allows lessons to be learned with
> fewer corrections.
You mean you hurt dogs for failing to learn what you couldn't
teach them?
> The lower levels of shock are no problem for the soft dog but
> they act as a reminder that someone out there is maintaining
> control.
You mean the dog KNOWS you're gonna HURT him. See my post
"Swiss Cheese" method..
> Often corrections can be accomplished with no shock at all
> merely by holding aloft the transmitter, recognizable to
> the dog from a considerable distance.
AS STATED: "The dog KNOWS you're gonna HURT him."
> On the other hand, the really hard dogs sometimes require
> such an escalation of shock intensity that even they are
> often confused and scared by the sensation of hard shock.
Because you're a EXPERT trainer...
> It is of course absolutely necessary to know your dog and what
> he can take,
INDEED. I'd like to invite you to test my dogs to see what they
can take. They'd MAUL you, and I'd be laugin too hard to call
them off. They'd rip you to pieces and bury the bones.
> and learn from, before applying any physical
> pressure in a training situation.
That so? HOWE do you TEST he dog's TOLERANCE FOR PAIN, in
advance of BURNING him? You'd have to jerk and choke IT on
a pronged spiked pinch choke collar and BEAT IT with a sstick
WOULDN'T YOU?
> Soft dogs often prove to be excellent performers as well as
> rapid learners.
Yes, terrorism IS a good teacher. I specialize in TERRORISM.
> So we should perhaps not decry the soft dog as an inadequate
> wimp, but rather see softness as a trait to be taken advantage
> of
Yeah, it means you got a 50/50 CHANCE of actually trainin the dog.
> through which we can train a dog more quickly, efficiently and
> thoroughly.
By waving your shock trainsmiter in the air?
> The soft dog may be showing us, "Hey! you don't have to hurt me
> much, I get the idea, and I'd like to cooperate."
IMAGINE? Kinda like as if I was breakin your arm?
> Let's hope many of them are that way and that we, as trainers,
> can recognize it and make the most of it when they come to us
> with that wonderful nature.
Yeah, INDEED. I like to give a good ass kickin while I'm breakin
a arm...
> Oak Hill Kennel, Pinehurst, NC (910) 295-6710
> Copyright © 1998 Oak Hill Kennel
So, that's HOWE COME it takes six months to train a field dog
that should train up in a couple weeks... Of curse, the "trainer"
is GETTIN PAID for every extra day in training they're brutalizin
the dog to force IT to do the most NATURAL job for a Retriever dog
to do...
The Puppy Wizard. <{}TPW;~} >
AnimalBehaviorForensicSc...@hotmail.com
HOWEDY matty you miserable lying dog abusing mental case,
Rocky wrote:
> oregonchick said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > How do we conquer the seperation anxiety?
You got to stop MISHANDLING the dog JUST LIKE
HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ <{); ~ ) >
> > Should we just lock him up in the crate for a short time,
The dog MIGHT DROP DEAD on you for doin THAT.
> > and gradually increase it?
THE DOG IS SHITTIN HIS GUTS HOWET from bein
locked in a box and IGNORED when he cries.
> You're on the right track,
You're a dog abusing punk thug coward, matty.
> though the crate has probably become a bad place by now.
Think so? PERHAPS she should TRAIN her dog?
LIKE THIS:
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
> Before I write yet another long "crate post"
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
YOUR OWN DOG IS DYIN FROM PSYCHOGENIC SEIZURES
on accHOWENT of you're a dog abusing punk.
> that gets no response,
On accHOWENT of The Amazing Puppy Wizard
has IDENTIFIED EXXPOSED and DISCREDITED
you as a liar a dog abuser a coward and
ACTIVE ACUTE LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL
CASE, matty <{); ~ ) >
> answer me one thing:
NO. You can't post here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE.
JUST LIKE the rest of your lying dog abusing punk
thug coward pals, matty <{); ~ ) >
> What was the thinking behind leaving him in the garden shed
On accHOWENT of he'll DESTROY the HOWES, matty.
> and not in the home he's become comfortable with?
THE DOG IS DYIN FROM STRESS, matty.
IT AIN'T COMFORTABLE in ITS HOWES.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Here's you HURTING dogs and LYING abHOWT IT:
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
>By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
>suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
>that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
>the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
>crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
>you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
>dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
"Rocky" <> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> > > Jerome Bigge writes:
> > > I do know that hitting, hurting your dog will often
> > > make the dog either aggressive or a fear biter,
> > > neither of which we want to do.
> > And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> > No matter what Jerry Howe states.
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.
You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for
her coment above regarding her success with
The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy Separation
Anxiety / Bed Time Calming / Submissive
Urination Technique (STSA/BTC/SUT)?
Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z,
who commented that his bed time calming technique
was quite similar?
> > You're scary Marilyn.
> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed individual.
> > I feel very sorry for her and her family.
"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.
> > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> > doubt, please provide a quote (an
> > original quote, not from one of Jerry
> > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> > shows a regular poster promoting or
> > using an abusive form of training.
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Is that true, Marilyn?
Of course not~ but THIS IS:
"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will
Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe.
This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times
It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should
pre-load your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work
as efficiently as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior." --Mike Dufort author of the zero selling
book "Courteous Canines"
sinofabitch writes:
> >> What I have said- repeatedly - is that he took
> >> posts from two different people,
> >> took pieces of them out of context,
> >> cobbled them together,
> >> then added his own words:
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
> >>and a fake signature.
"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
> >> Which is exactly what he did.
> >> The actual quote is misleading
> >> when taken out of context, and Jerry's
> >> faked "quote" is downright meaningless.
> > Here's Jerry's version
> > "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
> > Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
> > Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
> > Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
> > Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
> > Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
> > Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
> >Here's yours;
> > "I dropped the leash, threw my
> > right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
> > grabbed her opposite foot with my
> > left hand, rolled her on her side,
> > leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
> > nipped her ear.
> > --Sara Sionnach
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
"When you get bagged for lying you're MARKED
FOR LIFE," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY.
BWEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
--
Mark Shaw
--------------------------------
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!
"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.
"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without starting the
whole cruelty thread again so I'll state my opinion once and
won't defend it further: any method can be cruel for some
dogs.
Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but we've come a long way since then.
She trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.
Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.
Is it time for that?
What might I look for to tell?"
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...
> After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
> Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
> is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
> keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
> up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
> and the vet agrees.
> --Lia
"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help.
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusMed.WMV
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusSmall.WMV"
THAT'S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by
MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according
to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and
ASYLUM ESCAPEES.
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!
In this video, the dog is constantly jerking his
head all around. I'm not SHORE why he's doing that.
If he's doing it because he is being shocked repeatedly
into getting onto that skateboard, then it is my
opinion that Fred Hassen is a dog abuser in the
extreme. As would anyone be, no matter how much
"experience" they had shocking dogs, nor how
nationally "respected" they are/were.
If, HOWEver, the dog is jerking his head all around
because he is happy and for no other reason, well,
then, never mind. I've just never seen this kind of
behavior from a dog before, so maybe Fred can
explain what would cause a dog to move his head
like that.
Here's a other:
http://tinyurl.com/2v9oh
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had apointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
> > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> > doubt, please provide a quote (an
> > original quote, not from one of Jerry
> > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> > shows a regular poster promoting or
> > using an abusive form of training.
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K.
---------------------------------
Paxil Princess psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."
"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.
REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.
Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar.
Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in
With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'
Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.
Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear," lying frosty dahl.
"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
Should I have refused to groom them?
Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
Lynn K.
"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."
Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...
> >> Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
> >> quotes are true.
> >> In the posts below you take responsibility for
> >> making those calls.
> >> In your post above, you state you do not
> >> make those calls.
> >> Which one is it?
WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever
to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we
earn the right to participate in by observing
the easily understood rules and contributing
to in constructive ways."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03
BoxHill wrote:
> I know I am totally off topic here, but have you read
> "The Unquiet Mind"?
Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.
Lynn K.
---------------------------------------
YOU DO THE MATH
Lois E.
-------------------------------------
Full moon.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
> > > Jerome Bigge writes:
> > > I do know that hitting, hurting your dog will often
> > > make the dog either aggressive or a fear biter,
> > > neither of which we want to do.
> > And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> > No matter what Jerry Howe states.
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> > doubt, please provide a quote (an
> > original quote, not from one of Jerry
> > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> > shows a regular poster promoting or
> > using an abusive form of training.
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAHAHAHHHHAHHHAAAAA!!!
NHOWE THAT'S SUMPTHIN TO BE PR-HOWED OF, eh matty?
Janet B
heels and said:
>-I'll be feeding the dog, at most, 3 times a day. I'll find some
>authority on what type of food, how often, meal size, etc, before I get
>the dog.
Have you talked to the breeder about their recommendations?
>-I'm going to put her in the laundry machine overnight, where she can't
>get out or cause trouble. Kidding, she'll be in a crate overnight.
>What dog wouldn't want to be outside in a secure safe yard as opposed
>to in a crate.
Heh - not always what the dog wants is in the dog's best interest.
> Again, I'm not sure why
>you have the arrogant attitude about what you know and I don't.
Because I see the down side of your plan every day.
>-It will be for a puppy. Didn't realize this was the landscaping
>forum. Don't worry though, you won't have to come by and look at my
>mostly boring yard.
I find it difficult to believe that there's nothing in the yard. Most
people have a hose at least! Lawn furniture?
>-Because there is nothing else in my yard. I have had a puppy, not a
>lab puppy. Why the attitude again? Why are you arguing things like
>what I have in my yard when you don't know anything about it, and I've
>repeated that there isn't anything else to mess up in the yard several
>times now.
Because I see a lot of people's yards and none have been totally void
of anything a puppy can chew. And a lab puppy is a chewing machine.
>-She'll be getting plenty of attention at night of course, and some
>during lunch during the week, hopefully every day. We also have a rat
>terrier, which will be outside with the lab during the day.
Well, that changes things quite a bit. Another canine companion, a
lunch time break - both very, very good things. I still don't like
dogs being outside all day, particularly puppies, but this improves
the situation. If you're building a dog house now, I assume that
means your RT hasn't been left outside prior to this? Don't be
surprised if s/he is less than thrilled about it.
>I'm fine with getting tips and advice from people, but absolutely can't
>stand the arrogance and attitude I get sometimes. You're representing
>a website, and a business I assume, why not be a little more modest
>with your advice, and less assuming and attacking?
As you noticed, leaving dogs outside is not a popular idea here. Puppy
raising is serious business and way too many people do a very poor job
of it. Your coming here to ask about your doghouse material triggers
a response of "good luck with that". If you don't want to hear other
pitfalls, you've come to the wrong place.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
buglady
news:1144696055....@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> The consensus on here is that I leave my dog in a crate when I leave
> for work (8-9 hours)? As opposed to the securely fenced backyard in my
> house? Could someone explain why that is a bad idea?
.........securely fenced means nothing to an animal capable of digging
.........dogs are pack animals, he'll be bored and lonely wherever he is.
You may think being outside is great, but in some ways it makes no
difference to the dog.
.........lacking anything else to do your puppy will start barking at
anything that goes by. I don't know about you, but I don't enjoy living
next to barking dogs (as I do now). Even worse he could turn into one of
those maniacally barking fence running dogs who acts like he'd like to eat
everything that goes by. Or someone could steal him.
.........people can still toss stuff (some of which may be poisonous or
deleterious to your dog) over the fence and if your dog starts to bark for 8
hours while you're gone, I can guarantee you that people will start throwing
stuff and yelling at your dog and then you end up with aggression problems
on top of it.
........If you don't live in an urban situation and have lots of land
surrounding you, then barking isn't such an issue. Escaping still may be.
The safest thing to do is to put down a concrete pad, stick the dog house in
it and surround it with a fence - a pen in other words. The dog can still
relieve himself, but can't escape. I still don't think it's the place for a
puppy though.
>If this is to train the dog, and a temporary thing, then I can understand
that.
......yes, it's for safety purposes. He'll graduate to a room, then the
whole house. Even better, you can hire someone to walk your dog at noon, or
let him out in the yard for 1/2 hour and play with him. You can take
vacation days right now and spend them training your pup about household
rules. Two weeks can make a huge difference WRT creating a good living
companion and is an insignificant amount of time compared to the years
you'll be spending with this dog. Bringing a new dog home is the same as
bringing a baby home. Sticking the dog out in the backyard so he won't eat
your house is really not the answer.
buglady
take out the dog before replying
buglady
> > chewing on the siding - unlikely in my
> >opinion, and chewing on the fence.
>
> Have you HAD a lab puppy before?
......Heh! Exactly my reaction!
TheSimplyAmaz...@hotmail.com
mental case and professional dog training FRAUD,
Janet B wrote:
> On 10 Apr 2006 14:10:31 -0700, iantw...@gmail.com,
> clicked their heels and said:
>
> > -I'll be feeding the dog, at most, 3 times a day. I'll
> > find some authority on what type of food, how often, meal
> > size, etc, before I get the dog.
>
> Have you talked to the breeder about their recommendations?
Or he could just FREE FEED his dog janet.
> > -I'm going to put her in the laundry machine overnight,
> > where she can't get out or cause trouble. Kidding,
> > she'll be in a crate overnight.
That'll teach the puppy his HOWES is his box and
your HOWES is his terrortory to FHOWEL <{); ~ ) >
> > What dog wouldn't want to be outside in a secure
> > safe yard as opposed to in a crate.
>
> Heh - not always what the dog wants is in the dog's best interest.
Like when you couldn't get your own dog to come inside
to enjoy bein locked in ITS box under the air conditioning
and she COOKED TO DEATH in 104F heat. REMEMBER janet?
> > Again, I'm not sure why you have the arrogant
> > attitude about what you know and I don't.
>
> Because I see the down side of your plan every day.
Like when your own dog ESCAPED and got run DHOWEN on
the street in front of your HOWES, janet <{); ~ ) >
> > -It will be for a puppy. Didn't realize this was the landscaping forum.
Well, you wouldn't EXXXPECT to get DOG TRAININ ADVICE here abHOWETS,
did you?
> > Don't worry though, you won't have to come
> > by and look at my mostly boring yard.
Like HOWE janet done watching that poor little DEAD DOG
in "interested in hearing" gettin burned on ITS shock
fence while janet "EVALUATED" the dogs' fear aggression.
> I find it difficult to believe that there's nothing in the yard.
You mean stuff that can be chewed.
> Most people have a hose at least!
GREAT IDEA janet. He can rig up WON of thme Lixit's so
his puppy can have fresh running water any time IT likes.
Hey janet? Maybe if your own DEAD DOG had fresh runnin
water in her yard she WOULDN'T OF COOKED like HOWE she done?
> Lawn furniture?
That'll be nice an comfey for the puppy to LHOWENGE on, eh janet?
> > -Because there is nothing else in my yard. I have had
> > a puppy, not a lab puppy. Why the attitude again?
Oh, THAT'S on accHOWENT of janet and her mental case pals
like to BLAME THE BREED for bein UNTRAINABLE <{); ~ ) >
> > Why are you arguing things like what I have in my
> > yard when you don't know anything about it,
On accHOWENT of janet and her mental case pals can't
argue DOG TRAININ on accHOWENT of they don't know
nuthin abHOWET it <{); ~ ) >
> > and I've repeated that there isn't anything else
> > to mess up in the yard several times now.
janet and her mental case pals like to REPEAT themselves
when they run HOWETA IDEAS INFORMATION and METHODS <{): ~ ) >
> Because I see a lot of people's yards and none have
> been totally void of anything a puppy can chew.
DESTRUCTIVE CHEWING is CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
> And a lab puppy is a chewing machine.
No, that's SHEER IDIOCY janet.
> > -She'll be getting plenty of attention at night of course,
Locked in ITS box JUST LIKE HOWE janet and her mental
case pals PREFER on accHOWENT of they don't know HOWE
to HOWEtwit the cunning of the domestic puppy dog <{): ~ ) >
> > and some during lunch during the week, hopefully every day.
JUST LIKE MOST DOGS ALL OVER THE WHOWEL WILD WORLD.
> > We also have a rat terrier, which will be outside
> > with the lab during the day.
>
> Well, that changes things quite a bit.
That so, janet?
> Another canine companion, a lunch time break -
> both very, very good things.
You and your punk thug coward active acute chronic
long term incurable mental case pals can't train
your own opposite sex dogs not to attack each other.
> I still don't like dogs being outside all day,
You mean since your own DEAD DOG COOKED in your own
backyard when YOU COULDN'T GET IT TO COME INSIDE.
> particularly puppies,
A dog is a dog, janet.
> but this improves the situation.
That the Lab will have a JRT to PROTECT IT?
> If you're building a dog house now, I assume that
> means your RT hasn't been left outside prior to this?
Perhaps he got a TINY dog HOWES janet?
> Don't be surprised if s/he is less than thrilled about it.
You mean despite havin the Lab for company?
> > I'm fine with getting tips and advice from people,
Oh goody! Perhaps janet and her mental case pals
will teach us HOWE to TRAIN the dog not to ESCAPE
the yard and not to destroy the dog HOWES and not
to dig HOWELS and bark EXXXCESSIVELY <{); ~ ) >
> > but absolutely can't stand the arrogance
> > and attitude I get sometimes.
He means along with all the TRAININ ADVICE you gave him.
> > You're representing a website, and a business I assume,
janet SELLS dog trainin lessons.
> > why not be a little more modest with your advice,
You can't get nodoGdameneDMOORE MODEST than NOT GIVIN
NO doGdameneD TRAININ advice, can you, janet?
> > and less assuming and attacking?
That'd mean janet would have to tell you HOWE to
TRAIN your dog to not dig chew bark and escape.
> As you noticed, leaving dogs outside is not a popular idea here.
On accHOWENT of janet COOKED her own DEAD DOG TO DEATH
in 104F heat and her other DEAD DOG ESCAPED and got run
DHOWEN on accHOWENT of she and her mental case pals CAN'T
TRAIN their own dogs not to ESCAPE and bark despite their
shock fences and shock bark collars.
Hey? PERHAPS THAT'S HOWE COME their dogs ESCAPE DIG and BARK?
> Puppy raising is serious business
IN FACT, THAT'S HOWE YOU MAKE YOUR LIVIN, eh janet?
Wouldn't want to GIVE UP all your puppy trainin
INFORMATION for FREE would you, janet <{); ~ ) >
Are you gonna teach us HOWE to train puppys not to
eat your filthy undies and have abdominal surgery
and then nearly kill themselves ESCAPIN ITS CRATE?
> and way too many people do a very poor job of it.
Well janet, accordin to YOUR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORY
you'd be leadin the pack with doin a "POOR JOB OF IT".
IN FACT, we'd call YOUR SUCCESS DISMAL FAILURE.
WOULDN'T WE, janet.
> Your coming here to ask about your doghouse material
> triggers a response of "good luck with that".
Seems his dog HOWES material is A.O.K., janet.
> If you don't want to hear other pitfalls,
You mean like from YOUR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORY janet?
> you've come to the wrong place.
PERHAPS THAT'S HOWE COME you and your lyin dog
abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic
long term incurable mental case pals WARN new
readers NOT TO READ The Freakin Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard's Posts, eh janet?
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
HOWEDY janet you miserable lyin dog murderin mental case,
Janet B wrote:
> On 21 Mar 2006 13:25:17 -0800, phil...@gmail.com,
> clicked their heels and said:
>
> > i never expected such harsh words from this group.
Can't you say "HOWEDY", janet? Didn't you momma
teach you no doGdameneD manners <{); ~ ) >
> They aren't harsh, they're reality.
Oh? You mean like HOWE you MURDERED that little
innocent defenseless dumb critter in "interested
in hearing"?
> > We treat our dog very well.
>
> But perhaps not in the way he actually NEEDS.
Oh? You mean LIKE THIS?:
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
On 6 Feb 2006 17:41:08 GMT, Mary Healey <mhhea...@iastate.edu>,
clicked their heels and said:
> Does that include tone of voice? Some tools are easier
> to ban than others.
yes - screaming banshees are told to shut up! And I
always have to remind spouses that they may NOT do the
"honey - you're supposed to be doing it like THIS"......
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album
On 26 Jun 2005 10:52:42 -0700, lucyaa...@claque.net, wrote:
---------
----------
----------
-------------------
> > He was trained when we got him (2 1/2 years) by me. We
> > taught him how to heel, sit, stay, and not beg for food.
>
> Great! Did you teach him how to be around people?
You mean like HOWE you done your own dog Rudy?:
Nope - don't believe in kicking. But I do use a variety of collars
when training dogs. I'm not a big fan of CHAIN chokes, because I
don't find them easy to fit properly. I prefer nylon slip collars in
general, will never connect a leash to a buckle ID collar, and find
prong collars to be very, very useful training tools.
Rudy is going to start learning the e-collar this week.
I'm sure you'll NOT hear screams from across the pond.
--
> > I have treated my dog with nothing but love and care.
> > We give him bones because it make him happy and we
> > never try to take them away.
>
> Dogs benefit from leadership and rules. Giving bones and never
> approaching the dog when he has one, is a recipe for disaster.
Oh? You mean LIKE THIS?:
From: lucyaa...@claque.net
Date: Mon, Feb 27 2006 2:36 pm
Email: lucyaa...@claque.net
Janet B wrote:
> On 27 Feb 2006 10:21:57 -0800, lucyaa...@claque.net,
> clicked their heels and said:
> > Ooooo...! Scary!
> > You said: <<beagle/soemthing larger?>>. How BIG would that be?>>
> Not huge but not "little". IIRC ~60#
> >> Of course he was trainable.
> > Then why didn't you train him?
> I've already explained that the owners weren't willing.
Of course not, after having heard the parts of your original old posts
(the ones you so conveniently snipped out of your reply).
> > So he WASN'T so very trainable, after all. Can't have it both ways,
> > Janet: either the dog was "trainable" (that is, it was possible to make
> > it safe around people), or he wasn't (never completely safe,
> > trustworthy, good to have around. I doubt that "trainable", in this
> > case, meant able to hunt like Jack's dogs, or perform like your dogs).
> You really are stupid.
Ouch! Your inability to address the
contradiction I outlined above is noted.
Janet, "You-really-are-stupid" is with you like "<spit>" is with HJM.
What's the matter with you, guys? Too many inadvertent shocks to your
little grey cells? But it doesn't hurt - can't POSSIBLY hurt! Perhaps
just like a tap on the shoulder (shoulder blade OK? Not broken? Then
why do you purse your mouth, Janet? Just don't cry, please - can't
stand crying banshees, you know).
> > If a trained dog can't live with people - normal, ordinary
> > people - his training isn't worth much, is it? This was a
> > pet dog - "trainable", for a pet dog, should mean "able to
> > be made to fit in a normal, ordinary home". If you have to
> > keep it caged, supervised and managed with several collars
> > that ordinary people don't have a chance to handle properly,
> > this animal has no place in an ordinary home.
>
> I don't know where you got this "several collars" bit.
>
> From your training style, ma'am.
> Yes, the dog should not be out unsupervised.
You said a lot more than that, in your post.
> >> The owners were not willing to commit.
> > To commit - to what? What did exactly that training entail?
> They weren't willing to commit to the CONCEPT of training at all.
Of course you did explain to them what that training would
mean, showing them that it wasn't such a scary nuisance. Or
did you give them just another "Reality Check"?
> > This "gem" had a home. At least SOMEONE in the family
> > wanted him, at least in the beginning, when he didn't
> > bite and was out of control.
> The husband wanted him. The wife never did, even before the biting.
How did the husband feel about putting his dog down?
> > Instead of rehoming him, if you COULD have trained him,
> > he would have had a home - the one he was in, when you
> > first met him.
> I can't train him without the cooperation of the family
> who owns him, no.
And why would the family cooperate, when you tell
them that the dog would be unsafe even when trained?
> > Who in their right mind would want a dog about which
> > a trainer says "There will always be risks with this
> > animal, no matter how well managed"?
> They needed a reality check.
That's what you call your inability to train the dog? Nice euphemism!
> > But if the dog is TRAINED, Janet, there should be no
> > more risks than with any one of those good dogs that
> > have never bitten. Otherwise, what IS the "training" worth?
> EVERY dog is a potential biter - you DO understand that, right?
Of course, Janet. Just like EVERY human being is a potential killer.
But, with the right upbringing, most of us manage to refrain ourselves
from killing, no matter how tempted we might feel, at times.
The same, with the right training, we can teach bite inhibition
to the dog - or cannot we? But then, what was the point to mention
all those "nice dogs who hadn't bitten", in your post? You don't
make much sense, girl.
> > What exactly do you understand by a dog whom you wouldn't
> > ever consider as "safe" around people? Untrainable, perhaps?
> > Or are your TRAINED dogs unsafe around people?
> Oh yeah - they're very unsafe. Training never ends you dimwit.
I always took that to mean that you're always teaching the dogs new
things - silly me! I didn't know that you have to train them over and
over again the same thing - how not to bite you. No wonder that your
dogs swallow socks when you're not around: you're driving them crazy.
> The family was so oblivious that they needed to hear that they
> would need to be on their toes for the rest of the dog's life.
Well, that certainly ensured that the rest of the
dog's life was very short, didn't it. Nice job, Janet!
> How many dogs like this have you rehabbed in this kind of home, Lucy?
How many times do I have to remind you that *you*
are the dog trainer, Janet, not *I*?
Lucy
---------------
> > The biting occurred when my dad tried to put the leash on.
> > It was a misunderstanding.
>
> Nope - the dog understood exactly what he was doing -
> he was saying "get the hell away from my bone".
RIGHT. It was a MISUNDERSTANDING, janet.
JUST LIKE the MISUNDERSTANDING you had with that
little DEAD DOG YOU TRAINED in "interested in
hearing" and kwbrown's DEAD DOG Teena YOU HEELPED.
> > Do not even begin to talk down to me like this
> > because we also have another very well trained
> > beagle that has none of this aggressive behaviour
> > who went through the same training as siggy.
>
> They are not the SAME dog.
Justin AIN'T AWARE that he's askin LIARS DOG ABUSERS
COWARDS and ACTIVE ACUTE CHRONIC LONG TERM INCURABLE
MENTAL CASES, janet.
> > I was asking for advice on professional help and
> > all you did was say i was making excuses. i dont
> > see how coming to this group for advice is making
> > excuses...my dog bites when he is scared...period.
>
> Exactly what fear was involved with the bone incident?
BWEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
> > We need to get rid of that and that
> > is what i am asking for help with.
>
> Sorry - we're all being blunt about what's really going on -
Naaaah. If you was bein "blunt" you'd tell Justin
to jerk choke shock crate bribe mutilate intimidate
and IF THAT DON'T WORK, MURDER HIS DOG JUST LIKE
HOWE YOU DONE to so many dogs you've been BLUNT with
IN PERSON, REMEMBER janet?
> something you are failing to see and therefore, need HELP with.
BWEEEEEAAAAHAHAHAHHAAAAA!!!
> > My dog is my life...and whatever needs to be done i will do it.
>
> Then listen to what people here are saying.
Oh? You mean the DECENT PEOPLE like you an tommy
sorenson aka gentleman jack morrison aka DOGMAN
and malinda and suja and marcel?
From: lucyaa...@claque.net - view profile
Date: Fri, Mar 3 2006 1:06 pm
Janet B wrote:
> As far as referring to JH for training, besides the
> fact that he's a loon and quite clearly mentally ill,
Mentally ill? For claiming that dogs can be
trained without making them scream?
If Jerry is a loon, then what do you think, for instance,
of our friend Handsome Jack Morrison? Does he seem sane
to you? Are his incessant spitting, sighing and cursing
(Tourette syndrome?) the tokens of a sane, balanced mind,
do you think?
> there is no evidence that he's anything that he
> says he is, has ever even owned a dog,
There is about as much evidence as it is that, say, Handsome Jack
Morrison is who he says he is, owns dogs and knows anything about
dog training. Have you seen his dogs, Janet? Yeah, neither have I.
> and was clearly unwilling to help someone right here
> on RPDB, who wanted to meet with him and get some help
> for her dog.
Yet he offered to give a permanent home to the dog that
someone else in rpdb intended to get rid of. That person
preferred to kill her dog rather than let Jerry adopt it.
> And anyone who will "train" a dog sight unseen, is just stupid.
I thought that the trainer was supposed to train the OWNERS
to train the dog. Hey, Janet, doesn't it make you dizzy,
turning around so quickly?
You're spinning like a maddened weathercock.
Lucy
------------
> You are not doing your dog any favors by making excuses.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAAAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
You got any TRAININ ADVICE, janet, other than find a
"TRAINER" like YOU an PAY IT to HURT his dog, janet?
> > All of you just comment and criticize and say i make
> > excuses and that its all my fault...why not just relax
> > and give some advice to someone that loves their dog and
> > doesnt want to see him or anyone else hurt.
janet and her pals gotta SEE the dog IN PERSON to TREAT IT.
> Because we don't like seeing anyone hurt either,
BWEEEEAAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!
> and they WILL be if you continue to make excuses
> for your dog instead of getting IN PERSON HELP.
Oh? Like HOWE you do, janet?
From: lucyaa...@claque.net
Date: Fri, Mar 3 2006 6:09 am
Paula wrote:
<snip>
> I like the way a trainer I know puts it. Even if he
> trains your dog for you, that just means that your
> dog knows its part of the dance. If you don't learn
> the dance, too, there won't be any dancing going on
> around your house.
What do you think of a trainer who says
that one valid option is to kill the dog?
> So since he is not willing to live with you or to
> have your dog live permanently with him, he won't
> train the dog unless the human is willing to be
> trained and follow through with that training as well.
Did you read Janet's posts to that thread, Paula? If
you did, do you have the impression that Janet really
did her utmost to persuade the owners that the dance
was worth dancing? Or at least that going to another
dance teacher was an option?
Lucy
----------------
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Hello Janet,
Cheers,
Barb
It also shouts acceptance!
IT WORKS!!.... imagine that.
news:1106341024.6...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "CourteHOWES Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."
--Mike Dufort author of the
zero selling book: "CourteHOWES Canine."
Subject: education about equipment
From: lucyaa...@claque.net
Date: Sat, Mar 4 2006 7:33 am
Paula wrote:
> On 3 Mar 2006 03:09:35 -0800, lucyaa...@claque.net wrote:
> >Paula wrote:
> ><snip>
> >> I like the way a trainer I know puts it. Even if he
> >> trains your dog for you, that just means that your
> >> dog knows its part of the dance. If you don't learn
> >> the dance, too, there won't be any dancing going on
> >> around your house.
> > What do you think of a trainer who says that
> > one valid option is to kill the dog?
> In an imperfect world, Lucy. Sometimes the death of the dog is a
> valid option. In a case where if the dog stays in the home and the
> owners don't change how they deal with it a child could get killed,
> for example.
Suppose that the owners had been told:
"Your dog's behavior is a potential danger to you, your children and
anyone coming to the house. It can't be tolerated to continue. The dog
is highly trainable, and - if you're willing to do as I'm going to show
you - he can be turned into an excellent pet. Of course, you have to be
consistent and follow my advice exactly. You have a good dog, a dog
that loves you and your children and it's your responsibility to give
him a chance. Without your cooperation, I cannot train the dog and then
you're left with either the option of trying to hire a different
trainer or to kill the dog. If you kill the dog, then you'll have to
live with the fact that you wasted a life that could have been easily
saved and the decision to not give him a chance was entirely yours."
Do you think that putting the things this way (instead of Janet
pointing out to them that they had a very dangerous animal, who could
at best be MANAGED, and that only if they worked VERY hard, and even
then would have never been "safe" around people) MIGHT have made a
difference?
> You're in Israel, right? Was it worth killing a bunch
> of people, and continuing to kill them, because you couldn't praise
> them into accepting that you could live where they used to live and
> don't want you living?
You're naïve if you think that the problem here is as simple as that.
> And those are human beings. Why are you so
> willing to let human beings die for your real estate when you
> absolutely refuse to let a dog die to protect innocent children from
> the pain and trauma of a dog attack that could even kill them?
The conflict here is not only over the land. And I still have to see a
dog strapping bombs on its puppies and sending them to explode in buses
and shopping malls.
> >> So since he is not willing to live with you or to
> >> have your dog live permanently with him, he won't train the dog unless
> >> the human is willing to be trained and follow through with that
> >> training as well.
> >Did you read Janet's posts to that thread, Paula? If you did, do you
> >have the impression that Janet really did her utmost to persuade the
> >owners that the dance was worth dancing? Or at least that going to
> >another dance teacher was an option?
> What dance teacher is going to teach the dog to behave for owners who
> let it do as it pleases?
One who knows how to make it feasible for the OWNERS to change THEIR
behavior. Like, one who would tell them, as Jerry says, to turn off
that damn IF.
> There is no such trainer.
One who would point them to this article, for instance:
http://www.leaonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/S15327604JAWS0304_6?journalC...
<<Five cases are described that involve severe attacks on humans by
dogs who were being trained or maintained on an electronic pet
containment system. The system is designed to boundary train a dog
through the use of electric shock in an escape-avoidance conditioning
paradigm. Data were collected from legal documents filed in personal
injury lawsuits. Analysis of the findings show that all dogs lacked a
marked history of aggressive responding, all were adult males, and most
were reproductively intact. All attacks happened near the boundary of
the property. In every case, the system was operational at the time of
attack. Moreover, in most cases, the dog received shock. Findings lend
themselves to possible interpretation in terms of unconditioned
aggression as a result of a dog having received electronic shock and
avoidance-motivated aggression mediated through fear reduction toward
human stimuli.>>
> Can Jerry fix the
> dog when the owners aren't going to make any changes in their
> behavior?
It depends on the changes required, don't you think?
> Don't they at least have to do something?
They certainly do.
> I believe Janet
> did her best because I know Janet from around here and know that she
> does not take it lightly when dogs are at risk.
Have you read her posts to that thread?
> You can't make them
> learn to dance if they don't want to.
She told them that, no matter how hard they worked, they'd still have
an unreliable dog. How much do you think that such a prognosis
increased their appetite for dancing?
> If you worked with rescue, you
> would know that these types of people are out there all over the
> place. You may not have come across any of them, but you can't
> wishful think them right out of existence. They don't want to do
> anything. They want the dog to magically behave.
There's always a cost vs. benefit question. People are not willing to
invest unlimited time and resources - especially when told that they
are dealing with a "monster" that will never be entirely reliable.
> And you know what?
> If the only problem is peeing on the carpet, maybe that's okay if they
> never put the work in to get it fixed. But if the problem is
> aggression, there is a lot at stake.
It seems that more dogs are abandoned due to housebreaking problems
than to bites on humans, though.
> You can't even take a dog that
> is aggressive into rescue and find it a new home without jeopardizing
> your entire operation, meaning all the really good dogs you could have
> saved die.
I never said that she should have done that. I said that she should
have tried harder to get the dog trained _in_his_owners'_house_. Or, at
least, told them that going to a different trainer was an option, too.
> There is also a moral obligation. An aggressive dog can't
> be put into the hands of a lazy dog owner.
NOBODY put an aggressive dog in the hands of THESE owners. They CREATED
it, probably with the help of their IF.
> If you can't be sure they
> will handle the dog correctly, you feel the consequences on your head
> when people get hurt by that dog. Then you feel the consequences on
> your head when the press gets up in arms over vicious dogs.
THAT shouldn't be a consideration of the trainer called to help the
dog. The owners PAID her to help THEIR dog - not to care for the media
reaction to a potential bite from their dog, something that might or
might not happen.
> Right now
> in the U.S., there is a huge trend for insurance companies not to want
> to ensure landlords who rent to dog owners or homeowners who have
> dogs. It is because of lawsuits where people were badly hurt by dogs
> their owners would not or could not control. When you work with
> rescue trying to find homes for the thousands of dogs who will die in
> shelters if you can't find someone to take them in, you realize that
> every person who contributed to the insurance problem helped kill
> thousands of dogs who would have a home except for the fact that their
> landlord or insurer will not allow them to have one. The bottom line
> is that dogs are dying in the thousands. It's not a country where you
> have the luxury of saving every dog. More dogs die from wasting
> resources on people who won't take advantage than from cutting those
> losing battles out of your agenda and just trying to make sure nothing
> happens that will make things even worse while you move on to the dogs
> and owners who can be helped.
Paula, do you really think that the dog in question was such a lost
cause? Handsome Jack Morrison was outraged that I could even raise the
possibility that the dog would be killed, when - according to him - it
was a very trainable dog. Of course, that was before he learned that
the example had been brought to this forum by Janet.
> I'm not sure why I've bothered to write this since I am pretty sure
> you still won't get it.
I do get it all right. I just disagree with your point of view. I think
that the owners' willingness to work with the dog depends a lot on what
the trainer they brought to advise them tells them. I think that, in
this case, the trainer practically led them to the conclusion that the
best outcome would be to kill the dog.
> Until you get out in the trenches, you still
> won't. Kind of like what I knew of the Middle East when I had only
> heard stories vs. what I knew of it after having gone there.
If you think that the conflict in the Middle East is one over land
alone, then you still don't know very much.
> I can
> only hope any lurkers reading can tell how clueless you are and not
> make their decisions accordingly.
I hope that the lurkers would use their judgment, too.
> Once you have a story to tell about
> an aggressive dog you have rehabbed or any resistant owners you have
> convinced to put in enough work to rehab an out of control dog who has
> figured out he can rule the roost and not just that he can counter
> surf, you may have something to say.
Clyde bit me, when he was a puppy. Not nipping, but a real bite -
intentional (out of fear), a bite that broke the skin. Should I have
killed him, for that? Or should I have changed the way I interacted
with him? I chose the second option. But I did so because the training
method that I was lucky to find (Jerry's method) didn't require from me
a drastic change of my life. It was logical, non-violent and easy to
apply - I doubt that ANY dog owner would have a problem with it.
> Until then, I have nothing to
> say to you because the discussion is pointless and I've already said
> what I want to say to anyone with some critical thinking skills who
> may be following the conversation.
OK. I also hope that anyone who may be following the conversation would
be able to understand that there was another option in the case we were
talking about: to try a different trainer. Don't you think that Janet
should have at least mentioned that not all the trainers employ her
methods?
Lucy
A Poor Shepherd Boy
punk thug coward active acute chronic long term
buglady wrote:
> <iantw...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1144696055....@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
> > The consensus on here is that I leave my dog in
> > a crate when I leave for work (8-9 hours)?
AND hire a dog walker like alison or sinofabitch.
Or send IT to doggy day care like matty's.
> > As opposed to the securely fenced backyard in my house?
THAT'S on accHOWENT of they don't know HOWE to TRAIN
their own dogs not to ESCAPE despite their shock fences.
> > Could someone explain why that is a bad idea?
>
> .........securely fenced means nothing to an animal capable of digging
Yeah. THAT'S HOWE COME we TRAIN the dog not to DIG BARK and ESCAPE.
> .........dogs are pack animals,
That's meaningless DHOWEBLE talk <{); ~ ) >
> he'll be bored and lonely wherever he is.
BORED DOGS SLEEP.
> You may think being outside is great,
You mean as opposed to locked in a box, bugF'nNUTS?
> but in some ways it makes no difference to the dog.
That's A LIE bugF'nNUTS.
> .........lacking anything else to do your puppy
> will start barking at anything that goes by.
Barking is a SYMPTOM of FEAR, bugF'nNUTS <{); ~ ) >
> I don't know about you,
Could be he's INSANE comin here lookin for DOG TRAININ INFORMATION.
> but I don't enjoy living next to barking dogs (as I do now).
You COULD TRAIN your own neighbor's dog not to bark if
you knew HOWE bugF'nNUTS. All you gotta do is PRAISE
them and distract and praise them if they start again.
The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard got NO PROBLEM
for trainin HIS neighbor's dogs not to chase cars, bark,
and come through HIS fence. It only takes a few minutes
of NON PHYSICAL PRAISE IN ADVANCE and distraction and
praise.
HOWE COME you don't know HOWE to do likeWIZE bugF'nNUTS?
> Even worse he could turn into one ofthose maniacally
> barking fence running dogs who acts like he'd like to
> eat everything that goes by.
Oh, THAT'S CAUSED by your training methods bugF'nNUTS.
> Or someone could steal him.
He COULD train his dog to not talk to strangers.
> .........people can still toss stuff (some of which
> may be poisonous or deleterious to your dog) over
> the fence
LUCKY THING dogs can be POISON PROOFED in a few minutes, eh
bugF'nNUTS???
> and if your dog starts to bark for 8 hours while you're gone,
LUCKY THING we can TRAIN dogs not to bark, eh bugF'nNUTS???
> I can guarantee you that people will start throwing
> stuff and yelling at your dog and then you end up with
> aggression problems on top of it.
Oh? You mean LIKE THIS?:
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to
it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar," Lynn K.
"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.
<except when it is>
"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.
<except when it is>
"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.
--------------------
"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K.
----------------
> ........If you don't live in an urban situation and
> have lots of land surrounding you, then barking isn't
> such an issue. Escaping still may be.
LUCKY THING we can TRAIN dogs not to
ESCAPE in a few mintues, eh bugF'nNUTS?:
~misty
---------------
"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net wrote in message news
16990-3CAB1F8...@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...
I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know she's
not here with us. I really can't blame anyone here for her
loss.
I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because of
how you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the idea
that my using a shock collar could have any bearing on
Peach not wanting to stay home.
Up until I started using it my main concern had been
keeping my dogs in their own yard.
Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my concern
became how to keep them from running off for days on end.
I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the
anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.
I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now <g>
A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained,
doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn't bark all
the time.
IOW a great companion and friend.
Thanks Jerry!
---------------
misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6...@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net.
We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two
dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.
Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come
back in the yard and would run for days.
The last time, Peach didn't come back home.
I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train
my dog. She is now border trained. A few minutes each day
reinforces her desire to stay in the yard.
She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from
chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk around
the yard.
I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the
e-fence and its collars. If you can't get a regular fence
then you need to train your dog.
I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog
in our yard again.
The price was too high:-( ~misty
--------------------------------
"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:12208-3BB...@storefull-234.iap.bryant.webtv.net.
Hi Cathy!
~misty
=============
From: Nevyn (greatd...@badmama.com.au)
Hi folks,
Nevyn E.D. Veterinary Nurse & Animal Trainer
Paul.
------------
> The safest thing to do is to put down a concrete pad,
> stick the dog house in it and surround it with a fence -
> a pen in other words.
You mean on accHOWENT of you don't know HOWE to TRAIN
a dog not to ESCAPE bugF'nNUTS. HOWE abHOWET the BARKIN?
Won't the penned dog BARK like your neighbor's?
> The dog can still relieve himself, but can't escape.
But that won't stop IT from TRYIN. Dogs break teeth
tryin to chew HOWETA their pens <{): ~ ) >
> I still don't think it's the place for a puppy though.
You mean on accHOWENT of IT won't be locked in a box inside.
> > If this is to train the dog, and a temporary
> > thing, then I can understand that.
BWEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHHAAAA!!!
> ......yes, it's for safety purposes.
You mean on accHOWEN of you don't know HOWE to TRAIN
a dog to enjoy bein in his own yard, bugF'nNUTS <{); ~ ) >
> He'll graduate to a room, then the whole house.
In a few years. MAYBE. If you're LUCKY.
> Even better, you can hire someone to walk your dog at noon,
Like janet's partner sinofabitch?
Here's janet's PARTNER:
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
sinofabitch writes:
> > What I have said- repeatedly - is that he
> > took posts from two different people,
> > took pieces of them out of context,
Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?
> > cobbled them together,
No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.
> > then added his own words:
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
> > and a fake signature.
"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
> > Which is exactly what he did.
INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.
> > The actual quote is misleading
That so?
> > when taken out of context,
We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...
> > and Jerry's faked "quote"
The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.
> > is downright meaningless.
Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.
Here's Jerry's version
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
Here's yours:
"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
See?
> or let him out in the yard for 1/2 hour and play with him.
THAT'S INSANE.
> You can take vacation days right now
Oh? Are you familiar with his employer's vacation policy?
> and spend them training your pup about household rules.
THAT'LL TAKE A COUPLE YEARS. WON'T IT.
> Two weeks can make a huge difference WRT creating a
> good living companion and is an insignificant amount
> of time compared to the years you'll be spending with
> this dog.
But that AIN'T gonna TRAIN his dog to enjoy the yard.
> Bringing a new dog home is the same as bringing a baby home.
No it ain't. Bringin a new dog to the HOWES is MOORE
like bringin a new DOG to the HOWES <{): ~ ) >
> Sticking the dog out in the backyard so he won't
> eat your house is really not the answer.
Oh? Then tell us HOWE to train the puppy to live
in the HOWEs when IT is all alone, bugF'nNUTS?
> buglady
> take out the dog before replying
HOWEDY BodaciHOWES,
bodacious wrote:
> I have some questions for TPP (the Wizard) which
> I hope he will considder:
The Amazing Puppy Wizard GRANTS you your WISH, BodaciHWOES <{); ~ } >
> 1) you seem to have much concern for dogs
In SOME circles dog behavior studies are used
as models for human psychology and psychotherapies,
BodaciHOWES <{)' ~ ) >
> and almost revulsion for all other dog owners.
NOT AT ALL, BodaciHOWES. WHERE do you THINK The
Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students from ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD
WORLD come to The Amazing Puppy Wizard FROM???
>From the RANKS of MILLIONS of good people who REPORT
THEIR NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS RIGHT HERE and are promptly
called LIARS and their posts FORGERIES and you WARN new
readers NOT TO TRUST The Amazing Puppy Wizard on accHOWENT
of ALL TEMPERAMENT and BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS and FULLY 90% of
ALL veterinary care and DIS-EASE are IDIOPATHIC / IATROGENIC
as a DIRECT RESULT of MISHANLDING as taught by the professional
doggy trainers and university behaviorists who AIN'T GOT
the INTELLECT to HOWEtwit the cunning of the domestic puppy
dog <{) : ~ ) >
> Have you ever wondered why?
You mean HOWE COME, BodaciHOWES <{); ~ ) >
INDEEDY. We AIN'T been talkin DOG BEHAVIOR for a couple
years NHOWE, BodaciHOWES. THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing
Puppy Wizard has CLOSED HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Forums And School Of Hard Knocks.
You're NHOWE settin in The Amazing Puppy Wizard's HUMAN
BEHAVIOR RESEARCH LABORATORY, BodaciHOWES <{) ; ~ { >
"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).
A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."
THAT MEANS we can CURE ALL Temperament And Behavior
Problems NEARLY INSTANTLY simply by DOING EXXXACTLY,
PRECISELY, OPPOSITE of HOWE we've been TAUGHT TO
MISHANDLE and ABUSE HOWER dogs by the UNIVERSITY
TRAINED behaviorists and PROFESSIONAL PET CARE
SPECIALISTS who MAKE THEIR LIVING off of PERPETUATING
their SHEER IDIOCY and IGNOING the works of Drs. Sam
Corson, Dra. Mary Cover Jones, Breland & Breland, and
other notable psychologists IGNORED and OVERLOOKED by
the ABUSERS who TEACH US to lock HOWER dogs in boxes,
bribe, choke, intimidate, and IGNORE HOWER dog's,
children's and SP-HOWESES cries of FEAR and NEED and
WITHHOLD attention, affection, so called "rewards"
and UNCONDITIONAL LOVE TRUST and RESPECT.
Pavlov Told Us So 100 Years Ago. Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last
Student Demonstrated At UofOH Oxford, That Rehabilitation
Of Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC.
Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific Management
Of Doggys. <{) ; ~ ) >
WE CANNOT CONTINUE TO BLAME THE DOG OR ITS BREED:
ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
You GET The Critter You TRAINED
A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
RELAXXX. Smoke 'm if you got 'm. Care for a chocolate?
> 2) If you really want to help animals suffering from
> the ignorance of uncaring and unlearned owners,
WHOAHHH, Silver, GOOD BOY!!!
WHO SEZ "ignorance / uncaring / unlearned owners",
BodaciHOWES??? CERTAINLY NOT The Amazing Puppy Wizard.
EVERY WON who posts here has INTEREST in the subject,
are here to GET INFORMATION and SHARE IDEAS and CARE
DEEPLY abHOWET their critters otherWIZE THEY WOULDN'T
BE HERE, WOULD THEY, BodaciHOWES <{) ; = } >
> why don't you offer concise and encouraging advice
You mean you want TIPS on HOWE to pupperly handle
raise and train your dogs, BodaciHOWES? The Amazing
Puppy Wizard TEACHES HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students who STUDY their own FREE COPY
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual HOWE to 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
REHABILITATE ALL temperament and behavior problems.
When they REPORT their 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT
SUCCESS RIGHT HERE, YOU tell them to KILLFILE and NOT
TRUST The Amazing Puppy Wizard???
THAT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A MENTAL CASE.
Don't it, BodaciHOWES? Of curse, THAT STATEMENT
with a QUESTION MARK makes The Amazing Puppy
Wizard LOOK LIKE A FREAKIN IDIOT, don't it,
bodaciHOWES you miserable stinker <{): ~ ( >
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU, BodaciHOWES? LOOKS to The
Amazing Puppy Wizard like YOU GOT A SCREW LOOSE.
And ya wanna know WHAAAAT??? The Amazing Puppy
Wizard is abHOWET TO SHOWE YOU HOWE to TIGHTEN
IT UP, if you'd LIKE. OtherWIZE, you may feel
FREE to CONtinue bein a dog abusing hypocrite
as The Amazing Puppy Wizard is abHOWET TO SHOWE
YOU RIGHT NHOWE RIGHT HERE, BodaciHOWES, in a
NICE FRIENDLY, MANNERLY, WIZARDLY WAY <{)' - } >
O.K., BodaciHOWES?
IN FACT, The Amazing Puppy Wizard will WAGER
that you'll become HIS EMISSARY in the cancer
dog news groups on accHOWENT OF YOU REALLY
CARE. as we'll SEE from YOUR OWN POSTED CASE
HISTORY, as The Amazing Puppy Wizard ALWAYS
RELIES on to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT
those miserable lying dog abusing punk thug
coward active acute chronic long term incurable
MENTAL CASES HE'S ALREADY IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED
and DISCREDITED RIGHT HERE in UNMODERATED PUBICLY
Archived news groups and search engines for
psychology and psychiatric students to STUDY
for the NEXT THOWESAND YEARS, BodaciHOWES <{): ~ ) >
> instead of alienating others?
ALIENATING WHOM, BodaciHOWES? YOU'RE the BUM tellin
folks to KILLFILE the ONLY ADVICE that WORKS on 100%
of ALL dogs and ALL behaviors for ALL handlers ALL
OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD. What's THAT make you,
BodaciHOWES???
You AIN'T gonna be CONfHOWENDED with St. Francis, BodaciHOWES.
> 3) You obviously believe that you have many good ideas
So did Hitler, BodaciHOWES...
> about how to remedy bad behaviour in owners and dogs,
CURE, not REMEDY, BodaciHOWES. THAT MEANS EXXXTINGUISH
ABUSE throuHOWET the ENTIRE WHOLE WILD WORLD and MAYBE
WOULD HAVE by NHOWE, save for YOUR OWN PERSONAL EFFORTS
to DEFEND your alleged RIGHT to HURT INTIMIDATE and
MURDER innocent VICTIMS of YOUR ABUSE, as kindly as
you INDEED, ARE, as compared to the REST OF YOUR ILK.
> so why do you write in a style which is so off-putting?
HOWE COME you post to The Amazing Puppy Wizard with
such tomfoolery, BodaciHOWES? The Amazing Puppy Wizard
is VERY VERY BUSY WORKIN VERY VERY HARD to IDENTIFY
EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT the lying dog abusing punk thug
coward mental case who teach DOG LOVERS to SHOCK JERK
and CHOKE their dogs on PRONGED SPIKED PINCH CHOKE
collars and LOCK THEM IN BOXES and WITHHOLD FOOD WATER
TOILET area and SPRAY THEM IN THE FACE with AVERSIVES
and JERK and CHOKE and SHOCK them for CRYING form
FEAR and WITHHOLDING of BIBES ATTENTION AFFECTION AND
UNCONDITIONAL LOVE TRUST and RESPECT, BodaciHOWES,
JUST LIKE HOWE YOU DO YOUR OWN DOGS, BodaciHOWES.
> Puppy Wizard, please try to be a friend of mankind
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I
came not so send peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against
his father, and the daughter against her mother, and
the daughter in law against her mother in law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.
> as well as canine kind -
WE AIN'T TALKIN abHOWET DOGS nodoGgamenedMOORE, BodaciHOWES.
> we all need help at times.
"Ask and ye shall receive", BodaciHOWES.
OR, you can TAKE IT YOURSELF FOR FREE:
Here's your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?G34D2527A
Just ASK The Amazing Puppy Wizard if you
need any additional FREE heelp. There's NO
arbritrary INFORMATION in your FREE copy
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual so
study it well and do and follow ALL the
EXXXERCISES AS INSTRUCTED... it's a
PRECISE SCIENCE or it COULDN'T GET 100%
CONSISTENT NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS for all
handlers and all dogs in all fields or
utilities and behaviors all over the Whole
Wild World <{) ; ~ ) >
"Lord HEELPS those who HEELP themselves."
> Even you i would guess.
EVEN The Amazing Puppy Wizard, BodaciHOWES?
The Amazing Puppy Wizard HAS BEEN DOIN EXXACTLY
PRECISELY THAT, DESPITE YOUR BEST EFFORTS to
DEFEND your alleged RIGHT to HURT and INTIMDIATE
dogs, BodaciHOWES <{)' ~ ) >
> 4) You are aware that many people "kill-file " you because
On accHOWENT of YOU TELL THEM TO, BodaciHOWES.
> you are overly provocative.
You mean The Amazing Puppy Wizard's INFORMATION
SCARES THE BEEJEESUS HOWETA YOU and your punk
thug coward dog abusing lying mental case pals,
BodaciHOWES... you can't FOOL The Amazing Puppy
Wizard UNLESS HE WANTS YOU TO THINK YOU HAD, to
SET YOU UP to FALL ON YOUR ARSE, BodaciHOWES.
It's alot like TRAININ A DOG, BodaciHOWES:
"It is by muteness that a dog becomes
so utterly beyond value."
Like a confessor Priest?
"With him, words play no torturing tricks..., "
--John Galsworthy.
Don't bet your dog won't tell on you...
Their behaviors reflect
our words, actions and training quirks.
Jerry HOWE, The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
> This attitude of yours
You mean IDENTIFYING EXXXPOSING and DISCREDITING
the Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing Punk Thug Coward
MENTAL CASES who HURT INTIMDIATE and MURDER DOGS?
> is denying the owners the possible benefit of
> your experience.
PROBLEMO, BodaciHOWES! DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT POST
HERE abHOWETS UNLESS it's to say "THANK YOU, The
Amazing Puppy Wizard, YOUR METHOD SAVED MY DOG'S
LIFE. G-D BLESS YOU."
And THAT'S the LAST we EVER HEAR FROM THEM on
accHOWENT of THEY DON'T HAVE TEMPERAMENT and
BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS on accHOWENT OF:
ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING.
ALL Critters Only Respond In PREDICTABLE INNATE
NORMAL NATURAL INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
> Why not advertise your wares
You mean your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?G34D2527A
> to the widest audience by being friendly?
You mean SELL to the choir, BodaciHOWES???
NAAAH. THAT'D BE EZ! And besides, The Amazing
Puppy Wizard AIN'T LETTIN YOU BUMS HOWET that
EZ, BodaciHOWES. The Amazing Puppy Wizard is
using YOUR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORIES to PROVE
your university trained behaviorists and professional
dog trainers and veterinarians are LYING TO US
to MAKE MONEY, BodaciHOWES, after all, THAT IS
your CONCERN, otherWIZE you'd never have said
THAT, BodaciHOWES:
"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>
Max has a new problem:
Max is our 5.5 yr old, neutered Havanese with a
history of acute gastritis.
> Best wishes
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
PERHAPS you spoke too soon, BodaciHOWES? WE GOT
A LITTLE MOORE TALKIN to do and THEN you'll EITHER
LOVE or CONTINUE TO HATE The Amazing Puppy Wizard.
EITHER WAY, The Amazing Puppy Wizard STILL GETS
to USE YOUR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORY to PROVE what's
goin DHOWEN here abHOWETS, BodaciHOWES...
> Arty
The Amazing Puppy Wizard has a DIAGNOSIS, a NEW
WON, this week... that HE'D LOVE to SHARE with
you. SEEMS the PROBLEM is we got a case of
MunchHOWESEN SYNDROME BY PROXY compHOWENDED
by a bit of HYPOCRICY:
YOU SEZ:
> Those who wish to pet and baby wild animals, "love"
> them. But those who respect their natures and wish
> to let them live normal lives, love them more.
AND THEN YOU SEZ:
From: "bodacious" <bodaci...@ntlworld.com>
Date: Tue, 03 May 2005 11:59:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Springer bicycle jogger
We have to remember that most of a dog's world is up
his/her nose. In other words a 'walkies' should include
the animal being free to explore HIS world, NOT ours.
If it is possible for a dog to run free and follow the
scents the exercise will be fun and rewarding for the
animal. Not a painful cat- or squirrel- or lamp post-
free boring routine. Think like your dog, Michael.
Best wishes
Wess
WHAT makes you THINK lettin your dogs run amok
on wildlife is "let them live normal lives, love
them more."
LOVE WHO? LOVE YOUR OWN DOG ENOUGH to LET HIM
MOLEST INNOCENT CRITERS? FOR FUN??? BONDING???
From: "bodacious" <bodaci...@ntlworld.com>
Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 21:58:25
Subject: Re: Just had to put dog to sleep - was she in pain?
Most of what I want to say to you has already been said
by bugLady; you did the right thing and there was no way
anyone was able to predict what seems to be an extended
period of time. My own Golden Boy, Charlie, gave a soft
lip-fluttering sigh and went under in 5 or 6 seconds.
<snip>
--------------------
Your pal bugF'nNUTS was BLOWIN SMOKE up the
original poster's arse, BodaciHOWES. SHE
WORKS FOR A VET, BodaciHOWES.
From: "bodacious" <bodaci...@ntlworld.com>
Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 11:10:13 GMT
Subject: Re: question on pets death
I wonder if any dog lovers here would care to take a look
at my Yahoo group called cancerindogs. There seems to be
a pandemic of cancer in canines which roughly equates to
the prevalence of human incidence, i.e.. higher in the
USA, Europe and Australia than other areas.
I would love to do a comparison of the incidence of canine
cancer in hunting dogs compared to domestic animals. Here
in the UK, hunt dogs lead a relatively natural life. They
live in packs, they hunt and kill, they live in communal
kennels, they eat raw food. If this life style brought down
the incidence of cancer, surely their vet would notice.
What do you think?
Best wishes
Wess
-----------------------------
We don't got to let HOWER DOMESTIC DOG KILL
innocent critters to PREVENT CANCER, BodaciHOWES.
Those dogs DON'T GET CANCERS on accHOWENT of
THEY DON'T LIVE with ETHICKAL RESPONSIBLE LOVING
CARING DOTING PARENTS, like yourself, BodaciHOWES.
Your dogs are DYIN from STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASE, aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME, CAUSED
BY MunchHOWESEN SYNDROME, BodaciHOWES. And WE GOT
ENOUGH DATA TO PROVE IT, IN COURT.
And THAT MEANS, The Amazing Puppy Wizard can
get LEGISLATION PASSED against ABUSING DOGS
as you and your punk thug coward mental case
pals and UNIVERSITY TRAINED BEHAVIORISTS and
VETERINARY ETHOLOGISTS and MEDICAL SCHOOLS
TEACH HOWER KIDS, BodaciHOWES.
The Amazing Puppy Wziard is gonna CRIPPLE you
self serving DHOWEBLE TALKIN abusers IN WON
FELL SWOOP, BodaciHOWES <{); ~ ) >
WATCH...
Re: Just had to put dog to sleep - was she in pain?
HOWEDY yanik,
yanik...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hey there,
> We just had our beautiful baby put to sleep after 2
> months of surgery (she had adenocarcinoma that spread
> aggressively even after we caught it) and suffering,
> culminating in her having a major stroke while we were
> on vacation and losing most of her vision and her
> ability to eat.
She probably debilitated on accHOWENT of she was "alone".
> She was a yellow lab and retriever mix that my wife
> rescued from the animal shelter, about 4-7 years old.
> She was our baby.
S-HOWENDS like she got The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.
> We made the decision the day after we returned
> and saw her condition.
> We probably could have waited a few more days,
> but we wanted her to be at peace and not suffer.
She mighta come arHOWEND...
> It was a tough decision
Yeah. That's HOWE COME knowin WHEN to murder
a critter is always difficult.
> as i know many of you know firsthand.
INDEEDY. HOWER DOG LOVERS make difficult
decisions every day like it was EZ, they're
so used to it...
> Our vet was very caring and gentle with her.
Oh, INDEED.
> He told us the solution they used was basically
> an overdose of what they give them when they
> have surgery (it was pink). He said she might
> have some involuntary convulsions, etc,
Yeah?
> but no pain at all.
Sez he...
> When he did it,
As he's done C-HOWENTLESS times pryor...
> I had to hold her down tightly, as she began
> yelping as she had never in all her time
> with us and sounded absolutely miserable for
> about 15-20 seconds.
THAT'S COMMON when you MURDER a critter.
> Man I was not prepared for that, at all. :(
Your kindly gentle vet TOLD YOU to be prepared...
> As out of it as she was, I don't think she
> was ready to go :(
PROBABLY NOT. THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy
Wizard doesn't MURDER dogs that got WON MOORE
"HOWEDY" left in 'em <{) ; ~ ) >
> I think we did the right thing still,
PROBABLY SO.
> but I just want to know from anyone who knows,
You mean the lying dog abusing mental cases
who HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER dogs for fun
and profit you're askin here abHOWETS?
You'll get the MENTAL CASES in a uproar
arguin abHOWET whether dogs can SUFFER
when they're MURDERIN THEM.
> was she in pain at all?
WHAT DO YOU THINK? YOU HEARD HER SCREAMS.
Your GENTLE CARING VET coulda used a
shot of narcotic to make your dog feel
good and THEN MURDERED her, but THAT
would IMPLY MURDER HURTS, wouldn't it...
> Or was it just the shock to her system
You mean the PAIN.
> that made her cry so?
Yeah... PAIN makels WON struggle
an scream like that.
> It's hard to get those images and sounds out of my mind.
"S-HOWENDS of HOWENDS abHOWENDS."
IMAGINE HOWE it is for your BABY who missed you
so bad she fell apart while you was ON VACATION
only to have you force her DHOWEN and MURDER HER.
> But I want to know the truth.
The DOG LOVERS will commend you for HOLDING HER
YOURSELF. They PARTICULARLY don't LIKE dog owners
who foist THAT on THEM <{) ; ~ ) >
> Any knowledgable help would be much appreciated.
BWEEEEAAAAHAAHHAHAHAAAA!!!
> thanks.
> y
Subject: Re: Humane way to euthanize dog
Re: Euthanasia.... why different methods?:
Subject: Re: Sounds of hounds abounds
Date: 2004-04-03 18:10:17 PST
HOWEDY disciple cris,
>"Chris" <k9ap...@webtv.net wrote in message
>http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=4207
>-406F44D5-...@storefull-3137.bay.webtv.net...
> What is your favortie canine vocalization?
The S-HOWEND of dog lovers hypocrites liars
cowards and active long term incurable mental
cases like you takin advantage of folks and
critters an makin money off of disavailing
dogs of their HOWESES and lives.
From: C. Brunner (brun...@NOTvetmed.auburn.edu)
Subject: Re: Why a violent reaction to euthenasia?
Date: 1998/06/22
In article <3589E079.F7C5F...@spamspamspam.com
nos...@spamspamspam.com writes:
Does anyone have any ideas on what went so
wrong here? These are the details... [some snipped...]
My friend just had his 11-year-old orange tabby put down...
After the decision was made to euthenize, the vet injected
the substance (I am not sure what exactly he used).
Shortly after the shot, the cat started up violently,
and literally screamed and fought his way out of this
life, while my poor friend was holding him; attempts
to comfort the poor animalwere useless.
Needless to say it was quite traumatic for my
friend, and the cat continued to convulse even
after death.
This scenario is most vets' worst nightmare (mine, at
least). Euthanasia of a pet is traumatic enough to the
owner and the vet, without this sort of terror.
Several things can happen that might cause
the reaction you've described:
1) Euthanasia solutions are strong irritants (most,
anyway) and will cause pain if the injection doesn't
go into the vein or if it leaks out around the venipuncture
site.
Many vets will insert an intravenous catheter to be sure
they're "in the vein" before they inject the euthanasia
solution.
2) Animals entering an anesthetized state will go through
an "excitement" phase that can cause harsh movement,
vocalization
("screaming"), etc.
Rapid injection of the first few mls of solution is
supposed to take them through that phase quickly
enough so that they don't react; it doesn't always work.
3) Some euthanasia solutions cause relaxation of
sphincters so there is urination etc.; that's not what
you described.
As a 3rd-year vet student, I had to euthanize a dog
that had recovered from a surgical procedure (never
mind... it's a long story).
I had euthanized calves and dogs before, but in this
case I only had a syringe and needle and my "helper"
wasn't good at holding animals.
I inserted the needle, confirmed it was in the vein,
started to inject the solution... and the dog moved
(jerked its leg). My holder let go.
The solution seeped alongside the vein, and the
poor animal started to scream. Needless to say,
by the time that awful job was finished, we were
all quite miserable.
This was not a pet dog, so at least there was no loving
owner involved--just two compassionate but inexperienced
vet students and one poor "teaching" dog.
I learned a lot that day.
C. Brunner
(address has spamblock "NOT")
-------------------------------------
Billie Jean Kunkel <B.J.Kun...@worldnet.att.net wrote in
message
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=7o4d47$r6...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net...
.
You did absolutely the correct thing under the
circumstances.
I want to say a little about how the euthanasia process goes.:
When euth. solution is given to a perfectly healthy animal,
it usually takes effect in moments after the injection, because
they have a good, unblocked circulatory system. The sicker an
animal becomes, the more "down" they are, it increases the off
chance of a slower response time.
This delay is usually no more than a minute or two, during
which time, because some elements of the solution have
begun to act on the brain tissue, there can be a response
of temporay excitation which is thought to be mainifested
as sort of dizziness, and confusion prior to unconsciousness,
(rather like an individual who is extremely high or drunk )
When this happens it, of course shocks the owners if they
are present.
Believe me, this is an unpleasant moment for the vets and
staff as well as the owners. The main difference is, the
staff is usually aware of this possibility, and so just
"handles" the crisis; Whereas, the owners, who are usually
informed how the process is expected to go, and given info
on posssible momentary reactions, are tied to the animal
emotionally, and not involed in the clinical aspect of what
is happeng, and of course, it is very difficult to handle.
You do need to be aware, that what you were witnessing,
was not necessarily what the animal had any awareness of!
Again, what you chose was kind and correct.
My heart is with you in this moment,
B. J.(Billie Jean the 'possum queen) Kunkel
McGeary <mcge...@ixnay.amspay.com wrote in message
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=mcgeary-0208990944160...@170-210.dynamic.visi.com...
Hi, all. I've got an issue that's been nagging me for a
week now; I'd welcome some opinions.
Early the week of July 19, my 10-year-old cat, Molly,
began vomiting. A couple of times a day, at first (which
wasn't unusual for her so didn't provoke much notice);
within a couple of days, though, she was unable to keep
down any food or water. My husband and I took her to the
vet on Wednesday, thinking she perhaps had a hairball that
she couldn't expel. The vet checked her out, said she
wasn't dehydrated and told us to try large doses of
Petromalt.
Molly continued to get sicker, vomiting small amounts of
fluid every couple of hours Wednesday night. Her belly
was also obviously swollen and painful. Thursday morning,
we took her back to the vet and he did bloodwork that
showed her liver was seriously out of whack. He x-rayed
her and thought he saw an object in her intestines (even
though she didn't typically chew or eat things around the
house, we thought she might have gotten hold of a foam
earplug). She had surgery around noon on Friday.
The vet called that afternoon to say that the news was
bad: she had a kinked bowel, with a lot of unusual fibrous
scar-type tissue around the intestines, and her liver was
almost completely covered with yellow fatty tissue, with
only small brown spots resembling normal liver tissue (in
fact, the vet said that when he removed a piece of the
liver for biopsy, it didn't even bleed).
He repaired the bowel and closed her back up.
The lab results (which we didn't actually get back
until after she'd died) showed lipidosis (apparently
unusual because she'd never been obese), chronic
hepatitis and a problem with bile pigmentation.
We were devastated, of course, since we'd thought the
problem was minor. Molly's condition seemed to continue
deteriorating; we visited her at the vet's office on
Saturday, and she seemed to be in a fog (though she
snapped out of it a little toward the end of the visit).
Her body temp was also low.
On Monday, she began to run a fever and still was
not doing any better. My husband and I were desperate
for her not to be in any more pain, so we asked the vet
to put her down while we were there, thinking that she'd
slip gently away.
However, the experience was a horror. She
struggled hard against the needle, and I'm
certain that it was painful for her; not only that,
but one syringeful of anesthetic wasn't enough,
and the vet had to leave the room to get a second
dose while we held her and sobbed.
It was the most awful thing I've ever been through.
For the last week, I haven't been able to shake the
thought that we should've waited, should've let her hang
on a few more days just in case. The vet said he'd have
done the same if she were his own cat, but I can't help
thinking that he should have had us wait for the labs to
come back.
And I'm destroyed by the thought that Molly's
last moments were so unpleasant.
Was there any chance she could've recovered?
Did we act too hastily to put her out of her misery?
I know this is second-guessing that might only make
me feel worse, but any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks so much.
From: G Griffeth (gcgriffet...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: When to / How to emergency euthanize
Date: 2001-08-23 15:44:12 PST
Well, I win the pool...56 days since a a Hitler or Nazi
reference.
Pure CO is a reasonable alternative. Car exhaust
is bad... not the heat, but the mixed gases,
including many partially burned hydrocarbons,
especially aromatics. Also, CO concentrations
may be low enough to prolong death until after
side effects can manifest themselves... pain,
nausea, seizures.
CO2 is a piss poor alternative. Do you know how
your nasal passages feel when you belch beer or
cola? That stinging is from the CO2 redissolving
in the fluids. The carbonic acid causes it. High
concentrations of CO2 do exactly the same thing...
in spades. Collecting sperm from rodents requires
that CO2 be used for euthanasia/anaesthesia, and
it isn't pleasant.
For a moribund, still animal, I vote for the firearm too.
However, many of these animals are unconscious and don't
really require any assistance... even though agonal behavior
is unpleasant to see, the cerebrum of the animal is often not
functional and it isn't really suffering. If in doubt... leave
it alone.
Gg
HOWEDY suja,
Suja wrote:
> Leah Roberts wrote:
> > Turid says that the more she works with dogs,
> > the more she is convinced that people exercise
> > their dogs TOO much.
THAT'S INSANE. Dogs CANNOT "get too much"
EXXXORCISE if they're CONDITIONED to it.
> Not in this country, they don't.
THAT'S INSANE.
WARNING: rec./alt.pets./dogs. are newsgroups
where foul language, verbal assault, and a wide
variety of obscene concepts are often present.
If this sort of thing is not likely to sit well with you,
it is probably best that you refrain from reading
these forums where proven lying dog abusing
active acute incurable long term MENTAL CASES
hurt intimdiate and murder their own dogs and lie
abHOWET IT. <{) ; ~ ) >
> Otherwise, there wouldn't be a 'pet
> obesity' problem would there?
DOGS EAT FOR THE SAME EMOTIONAL
PROBLEMS PEOPLE GOT, suja. Dogs are
DEPENDENT on PEOPLE to FEED THEM.
If dogs are OVER WEIGHT it's on accHOWENT
of they're bein FED TOO MUCH AND THEY'RE
EATING NEUROTICLALLY.
> > The result of too much exercise without
> > enough down time can be increased
> > reactivity and physical problems.
No. Turid clearly does NOT know what she's
talkin abHOWET. She's lookin at the EFFECT
and thinkin it's the CAUSE. She FAILS to
RECOGNIZE that these HYPERACTIVE dogs
are BEING EXXXCESSIVELY EXXXORCISED
to CON-TROLL HOWETA CON-TROLL BEHAVIORS:
professor SCRUFF SHAKE sez:
> Another factor to consider is whether your
> dog is getting sufficient exercise.
Like your dog, professor? Properly handled and trained
dogs do not need exercise to control behaviors. You
exercise your dog 5 miles a day cause he's hyperactive.
Exercise to avoid behavior problems is what you use
because you got no way of training the hyperactive dog.
> Mine will go "bonkers" if he has been exercise deprived.
INDEED. That's HYPERACTIVITY, from punishing IT.
> Best wishes,
BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> Marshall
Can you retire early, professor? I'm comin after your job.
I suggest you part company with the university before
they hear from Jerry and part company with you first.
Of course I'll still have to disgrace the University, but
that's business, professor. j;~)
> This boggles the mind.
Well THAT'S on accHOWENT of you're a IMBECILE, suja.
> Your average pet dog has plenty of down time
> during the 8-10 hours during the day while their
> owners are at work, and another 8 or so hours
> when everyone is asleep.
THAT'S sixteen HOWERS locked in a box
with no food water or toilet. HOWEver,
EXXXORCISE GOT NUTHIN to do with
this. What your dogs NEED is the ability
to RUN and HIDE when you PUNISH THEM
and THAT will DEPLETE the dangerHOWES
HORMONES released by the fight or flight
REFLEX when you hurt and intimdiate your
dogs, suja.
> I don't know very many people who keep
> their dogs going 5 or 6 hours a day, do you?
ALL IT TAKES to cause DEATHLY DIS-EASES
are maybe tellin the dog "NO!" five or ten times
a day... or lettin IT CRY BARK and WHINE for
just a few minutes a couple times a day...
> Besides, this does fly in the face of what
> dogs were originally meant to do.
INDEEDY. So what Turid is sayin is only
partially correct, on accHOWENT of she
likeWIZE cannot FACE the FACTS that
so called TRAININ CAUSES The Puppy
Wizard's SYNDROME <{) ; ~ ) >
> Many, many dogs were developed specifically
> for the purpose of working all day, and I don't
> see how any of these dogs would have physical
> problems resulting from their work.
The CAN'T, on accHOWENT of they're RUNNIN
from their FEAR of being jerked and choked and
shocked. THAT'S HOWE COME lying frosty dahl's
dogs GET a 106 F temperature from just a few
minutes in the field, thanks to her CHOKIN BEATIN
and SHOCKING THEM in trainin... Vs HOWE COME
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's McProtection dogs
GET 106F temps in two minutes when they FEAR
for their kind and gentle handler's safety. The
ATTACK WORK EXXXPIATES their STRESS in
just a couple minutes, so every thing is IN ORDER
when the trainin is done, Vs the dog NEVER GETTIN
RELIEF from his FEARS in "traditional HUNTIN DOG
TRAININ" as taught by the dog abusing MENTAL
CASES we got postin here abHOWETS <{) ; ~ ) >
> They wouldn't be very good at it in the long
> run if that were the case.
RIGHT! SO THAT AIN'T "the case," IS IT, suja <{) ; ~ ) >
> Anyway,
You mean 'anyHOWE', MAGGOT <{) ; ~ ) >
> since most people don't use their dogs for
> the purpose they were originally intended for,
> IMO, the dogs get far less exercise than they
> were built for.
RIGHT. EXXXORCISE GOT NUTHIN TO DO
with STRESS from PUNISHMENT, suja <{) ; ~ ) >
> > This topic has been so controversial
NO IT AIN'T...
> > that she's on her second round trying to explain it.
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!
> Small wonder. Makes no sense to me.
Yeah, but YOUR DOGS GOT The Puppy
Wizard's SYNDROME, suja <{) ; ~ ) >
> A GR is meant to go out and work
> in the field with its handler all day,
RIGHT. And the dog RUNS from his ABUSER...
> yet one 20 minute ball playing session is bad for it?
RIGHT. ON accHOWENT of all that BUILT UP
TENSION while settin in IT'S box awaiting further
JERKING and CHOKING has DEPLETED the
dog's functional reserve systems...
> Maybe I'm missing something.
"If I only had a brain..."
> Suja
"How much neck pulling and shaking?
Just the minimum necessary," professor
Of ANAL-ytic Behaviorism UofWI marshall
"SCRUFF SHAKE And Scream NO! Into Its
Face For 5 Seconds,' lyin doc dermer.
HOWEDY Chris,
"Chris Allen" <cal...@efn.org> wrote in message
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=698c89aa.0206032020.77b2a...@posting.google.com...
> "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
<http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=hxRK8.5964$EW5.498...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>...
> Jerry,
> Could you please stop posting these dog-owner messages
They're not "dog-owner" messages, they're behaviorism
idiocyncracies, if you will.
> to rec.org.mensa?
Well, perhaps you geniuses can answer my question, our
professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorism from UofWI can't seem
to understand the question... so I came here for a little
emergency help. I figured we need moore intelligence than
we'll get outta UofWI, so that's HOWE COME I'm here.
> Thanks,
Yeah. To make it EZ, I'm wondering if there's any discrepancy
in teaching a dog by scruff shaking and screaming NO into its
face for 5 seconds and allelomimetic behavior?
What do our geniuses think of using fear force and confrontation
to inspire respect, trust and love? Just pretend it's kids we're
talking about, that'll put it into the proper perspective... won't
it, GENIUS?
Figger it HOWET.
> -Chris
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: new puppy bitting/chewing hands
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 1999/07/05
In article
<976F54CA8C2C77AB.9DF245927D0DAB8B.90BA464FE454E...
@lp.airnews.net>
Jason <asl...@removethisline.geocities.com> writes:
> > I would assume that all puppies like to bite and
> > chew on just about anything. How do you train a
> > young puppy NOT to chew on hands and feet?
> > Although there is a time and placefor saying 'no'
> > and giving the dog a scruff shake I do no know if
> > this is appropriate at this age.
> At this point, "No" does not have any
> behavioral function.
Except to intimidate and cause anxiety and aversion.
> But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by
> its neck and shake it a bit,
To teach IT to trust your gentle hands, right GENIUSES?
> and the frequency of the biting decreases
> then you will have
Effectively intimidated your dog for BONDING activity.
> achieved too things.
Ooops! Almost forgot! Teach them to do likewise
back to you or your kids. Think 'sit rolls downhill.'
> First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
Actually, that's MOORE likely to INCREASE, just change
to chewing other things, like furniture and walls and floors.
> and two, you have established "No" as a
> conditioned punisher.
Oh. That's CONTRAWISE to appropriate behavior,
isn't it? We don't punish dogs noMOORE. There's
far MOORE effective, safer, intelligent methods
of conditioning and deconditioning behaviors than
intimidation. Perhaps our genius contingent knows
of one?
> How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
> minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
> biting.
> When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before
> mild forms of punishment
You mean kinda as a warning, like firing a shot
in the air? Oh? That'll make the dog very anxious
and maybe cause OCD behaviors.
That's HOWE COME our good professor's little dog
masturbates on his couch pillows when he misses his daily
5 mile bicycle workout. Masturbation occurs as an anxiety
relief mechanism from the stress of punishment back to
day one.
I'm certain Chris can give us some insight
into this phenomena?
> (I would hold my dog's mouth closed for a few seconds.)
To what??? Teach the dog a closed mouth with a hand
over it is friends?
> whereas "Bad Dog" came
As a result of his BONDING activity.
> before stronger punishment (the kind discussed above).
I dunno from punishment, it makes dogs hyperactive and
aggressive and causes phobias self mutilation idiopathic
epilepsy idiopathic rage and intestinal and digestive disorders.
> My dog is about 1.5 years old. "No" is usually
> sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog" to stop
> a behavior.
You'd think by 1.5 the dog would know his business.
> "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works.
To intimidate and alienate your dog.
> I then, of course, quickly say "Good Dog" when he is
> appropriately behaving.
That's too late, professor. Dogs seldom reflect on their
work like an artist, they think forward, not back.
> In providing verbal punishment
You just love authority, don't you professor.
> and reinforcement as in using nonverbal punishment
> and reinforcement, timing is very important.
INDEED! Since they can cause the dog aversion and
adversion and make IT turn on you or your family
or your visitors, my students don't do those sorts
of things, cause that's HOWE COME dogs get DEAD
from behavior problems like turning on their punisher.
Yeah, even the scolding cause positive thigmotaxis.
Perhaps our GENIUSES can tell us about the opposition
reflex, both physical as when forcing on the collar,
and emotional, as in trying to intimidate the dog by
tellin IT "NO! BAD DOG!"
Punishing dogs isn't training, it's CONTRAWISE to
everything reasonable and intelligent. Isn't that
so, Chris?
> Use these consequences
Dogs don't appreciate consequences. Dogs appreciate
SAFETY and FUN! Not intimidation and aversives.
> to control behavior much as in the game where
> a child is told "your getting hot" or "your
> getting cold." If the delay between the behavior
> and the consequence is too long then the behavior
> will not appropriately change.
Yeah. So now you see you foolishness in waiting till the
dog finishes the behavior before MOTIVATING with praise,
professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorism, lying doc dermer.
--Marshall
===============
Round 2
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Update on Puppy
Date: 1999/06/14
In article <37675817.19034...@news3.bga.com>
clayn@NO_JUNKdillonet.com
writes:
>> My previous thread seems to have deteriorated off
>> topic, but I would still like some input on biting
>> and aggressive behavior. To recount I have a Chow/Lab
>> mix who is now 9 weeks old. The biggest problem I had
>> with him is biting. This could have been when petting
>> him, walking by, or when playing. This seems to be his
>> way of playing or getting attention, but it can drive
>> me nuts. To stop this I've distracted with chew toys,
>
> Distraction can be a BIG mistake!
Sure, our professor would rather intimidate the
dog and focus IT on the undesirable behaviors
he'll teach the dog to use as a negative attention
getting device.
> Why?
Think "forbidden fruit," professor scruff shake.
Think RESTRICTION, as in pinching off a hose.
Think "absence makes the heart grow fonder."
> Because if your manipulation of the chew toy
> is reinforcing
NO. That's bullsit, professor scruff shake.
Giving a substitute will not train the dog because
there's no training there. Just distracting the dog
teaches IT to do that till you tell IT not to do it
EVERY TIME.
> then you are inadvertently reinforcing your dog
> for biting if you follow his biting with activating
> the chew toy.
The dog may start so he'll get the toy but that's not the
problem. The problem is you are AFRAID of "training"
behaviors that you can't break. I'm not, cause I don't
have any problem changing behaviors as I wish simply
using effective distraction and praise techniques.
> The standard way to curtail biting is to either
> "yelp loudly,"
That often overstimulates the dog.
> "clamp the dog's mouth shut with your hand,"
That overstimulates and angers the dog. Seems our
professor's never heard of allelomimetic behavior?
> or "pick him up by the scruff of his neck"
> and say "no" whenever he bites.
I can't think of a MOORE dangerous act. What's going
to teach the dog not to do that back to you ?
> All of these are punishment procedures and
> to work they must be put into place promptly,
> within say .5 sec,
Our professor of behaviorism needs to be put
in his place in the soup line.
> after the bite.
That's for attrition, or teaching trust?
> Isolating the dog after a bite is another
> form of punishment called
Lettin the dog stew so he'll come outta his
box doin it again harder.
> time-out
Dogs don't understand 'time out.'
HOWEver, they DO understand rejection.
> (from reinforcement but it is hard to
> rapidly implement- -within .5 sec of a bite.
Not if you snatch IT up by the neck and
haul it into a box.
> If one of these procedures does not work, that is, your
> dog behaves as if it were a game, then you are not using
> an effective punisher/procedure.
You mean increase the INTIMIDATION and FEAR and PAIN,
professor lyin doc scruff shake dermer?
> > said NO, and failing that put him in my room
> > alone for a few min. When in there he barks
> > and whines, but afterwards behaves much better.
> > After about a week of this the biting has decreased
> >remarkably, but hasn't stopped outright. Still does
> > it when he gets into hyper Puppy Jihad mode.
As stated. See? Our professor is writin about
romantic love now.
> Well, be patient.
EZ for our professor to say. The dog is now hyper and he's
tellin the OP GOOD LUCK. That's the difference between me
and the bums here. The bums her tell you "shouldn'ta lissened
to amaturs" when their advice gets a dog VICIOUS or DEAD.
> You can, of course, use differential
> reinforcement of other behavior to
> eliminate biting.
Or he could just extinguish it in a few minutes using
distract/praise techniques according to the instructions
in your FREE copy of my FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method
manual available for FREE at http://www.doggydoright.com/
> If there is a situation in which your dog often bites.
That the long way around the behavior, professor scruff shake.
I prefer to interrupt the bite reflex and extinguish it almost
instantly without the dog even noticing what we're doin, professor.
> then create the situation and if your dog goes
> without biting for 1 sec. offer a reinforcer
> (click and treat
Ah yes, the treat. That distracts the dog from
the idea of the lesson, teaches greed and usurps
the dog's esteem and regard for the handler's
authority... professor scruff shake.
> if you use a clicker).
Or any other brief variable sound, like a penny
can. The clicker cannot be varied so's to make
the distraction random. Of course our professor
doesn't do that, he trains itty bitty pieces of
a behavior and then links them all together and
then assigns a cue for the behavior which the
dog does as an unthinking action for a weenie.
Could take weeks to train the dog not to do a behavior
using that ridiculous method. It's not even good for
teaching a behavior cause the treats distract from the
concept, the concept is obsfucated by the baby steps of
the links, and the dog has no idea what's up,except the
weenie, he'll get that right. But that's all.
> Then gradually increase the time that your dog must go
> without biting for the reinforcer to be delivered.
Well, most puppys are gonna start mouthing again fast,
and there goes the shootin match.
> Eventually,
Like in about twenty minutes using my methods?
> your dog will not bite
I think there's greater likelihood the dog will learn to bite viciously
> and the other behaviors that you have
> been reinforcing will be more frequent.
Like the jerking off on your couch pillows, professor scruff shake?
> Another factor to consider is whether
> your dog is getting sufficient exercise.
Like your dog, professor? Properly handled
and trained dogs do not need exercise to
control behaviors. You exercise your dog 5
miles a day cause he's hyperactive.
Exercise to avoid behavior problems is what you use
because you got no way of training the hyperactive dog.
> Mine will go "bonkers" if he has been exercise deprived.
INDEED. That's HYPERACTIVITY, from punishing IT.
> Best wishes,
BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> Marshall
Can you retire early, professor? I'm comin after your job.
I suggest you part company with the university before
they hear from Jerry and part company with you first.
Of course I'll still have to disgrace the University, but
that's business, professor. j;~)
HOWEDY leah,
Leah Roberts wrote:
> I am on an e-mail list with some of my favorite
> gurus (Turid Rugaas,
Turid is the ONLY "behaviorist" who's EVER
come close to what's really goin DHOWEN.
> Suzanne Clothier),
She's a notoriHOWES dog abuser, like yourslelf, leah.
ONLY DIFFERENCE is, she's not an active long term
incurable acute MENTAL CASE like yourself, leah.
> and Turid has brought up a fascinating - and
> controversial - point about dogs and exercise.
There AIN'T no "controversy" in the SCIENCE of BEHAVIOR.
> Stress, no matter how it originates (happy
> excitement or fearful anxiety) produces
> chemical changes in the body, including an
> elevated level of adrenaline. Adrenaline stays
> in the body for days.
Well, that's close leah, but it's much deeper than that.
> Turid says that the more she works with dogs,
> the more she is convinced that people exercise
> their dogs TOO much.
No. People TRY to EXXXORCISE their dog's
HYPERACTIVE behavior and that's HOWE
COME they break DHOWEN physically due
to the STRESS of traditional trainin, like clicker
trainin, for EXXXAMPLE <{) ; ~ ) >
> She's critical of activities like agility, and says
> that many agility dogs have stomach problems.
RIGHT. But agility got NUTHIN to do with it.
It's the LYING DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG
COWARD MENTAL CASES who HURT
INTIMIDATE CRATE and WITHHOLD BRIBES
ATTENTION and AFFECTION to accomplish
"trainin" needs. Like HOWE you do, leah.
THAT'S HOWE COME THREE or your RECENT
STUDENTS MURDERED INNOCENT CRITTERS.
> She's also critical of games like fetch and frisbee,
> because dogs tend to get obsessive about it (which
> means the level of stimulation is too high).
NO. OCD'S are CAUSED BY STRESS, not activity.
> One woman on the list was informed that 20
> minutes of ball play with her ball-obsessed
> golden was too much.
EVERY THING YOU DO TO DOGS CAUSES
THEM DEATHLY ILLNESS, leah. You're dog
abusers cowards liars and active long term
incurable MENTAL CASES as PROVEN by
your own posted case histories <{) ; ~ ) >
> The result of too much exercise without enough
> down time can be increased reactivity and physical
> problems.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard has been TELLIN
you for FIVE YEARS NHOWE that EXXXCESSIVE
EXXXORCISE to CON-TROLL HYPERACTIVITY
CAUSES MOORE HYPERACTIVITY <{) ; ~ ) >
> This topic
You mean The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME <{) ; ~ ) >
> has been so controversial
There AIN'T no CONtroversy, leah. The PROBLEM
is dog abusing MENTAL CASES like yourself won't
stop bribing crating choking spraying shocking and
intimidating dogs and tryin to get HOWET callin THAT,
trainin AS EXXXAMPLED by your posts to gentleman
jack morrison regarding JERKING and CHOKING dogs
on PRONGED SPIKED PINCH CHOKE and SLIP CHOKE
COLLARS to break DOMINANCE PISSIN <{) ; ~ ) >
AND THAT'S HOWE COME you can't post
here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE...
well THAT and the FACT that you're a lying
dog abusing mental case, proven by your
own written words:
Leah Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her chronic
mental problems. Recenly changed to
another ANTI PSYCHOTIC prescription.
"I don't think Jerry intentionally lies. I think he twists things
around in his own mind until he actually believes what he's saying."
Jerry is the only poster here who gives dangerous
advice. Google for spike and squirt. And let's
not forget the times he's told posters whose dogs
have medical problems that his halfwits-end
program could cure them.
PetsMart Pet Trainer
My Kids, My Students, My Life
> Family Dog Trainer
> "It's A Dog's Life"
"It was kind of funny, in an absurd way. The rabbit
was completely still, eyes open and glazed, dried
blood in his ears and mouth, with his back legs
stiffening quickly.
It was her pet rabbit, not a wild bunny, so
that made it much harder for her.
And he was killed by bichons.
Her dogs had torn it apart. My one student who had
shown up (another weird thing about the night) and I
had to continuously check for heart and bowel sounds
for her, until she could accept that the rabbit was dead.
(The rigor mortis in his back legs she attributed to "pain").
Full moon.
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com/
> Then she mentioned the names of her dogs,
> and I immediately remembered them.
YOUR STUDENT, leah. Like that RECENT GRADUATE
STUDENT Rottie who'd been in your SOCIALIZATION
classes since IT was ten weeks old who RECENTLY
MURDERED a little innocent DEAD DOG at the park.
> I will always remember the dogs.
Yeah. You and ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN.
You hurt intimidate and murder critters, leah.
"She bit me on the nose. That was a true bite.
Not unprovoked, but still a bite. The snarling
and barking was vicious - the bite was a quick
snap, and the cuts weren't deep."
"Once I was holding her bone for her while she
chewed it (something she loves). She mistakenly
put a tooth in my finger instead of the bone."
"The other time was something I reported here
because I thought it was funny. I was sitting on
the floor with my supposedly agile, coordinated
BC dancing around me, mouth hanging open
with tongue flopping goofily. She tripped over
my legs and fell tooth-first into my forehead."
"Oh, okay. One more, I guess. When I had only
had her a few days, and she hadn't yet learned
not to nip during play, she jumped up and grabbed
my t-shirt, pinching some skin. It hurt but, again,
there was no blood."
Subject: MAJOR Problem with Madigan:
"And something happened yesterday that I'm not
even ready to talk about. I'm too shocked, overwhelmed,
discouraged, upset... and it's 100% my fault because,
in retrospect, I see how I actually *trained* her to do it.
Sigh.
Oh, okay. I said it out loud (or rather, wrote it out
loud :}, so I might as well go on... (just changed the
subject line, too, because I fear this will turn into
a rather volatile thread on its own)...
She bit me.
Not nipped me. Bit me. Drew blood. A lot of it.
Left three holes in my nose.
I have never been bitten by a dog before.
Least of all my own puppy.
In fact, I denied it at first. "She didn't bite me,"
I told my husband. "She was just clumsy and
hit me in the nose with her teeth."
"She bit you," he told me. "You have tooth marks."
"I don't know what to do. I somehow took a gentle,
non-violent dog and trained her to bite. Not only that,
but to bite ME in the FACE! How do I address that now?"
Same same as HOWE you done it every
other time your dog BIT YOU... you DENY
IT and take a handful of ANTI PSYCHOTIC
MEDICATION and call The Amazing Puppy
Wizard a LIAR for POINTIN HOWET to you
that YOUR DOG TURNED ON YOU on acc-
HOWENT of YOU ABUSE HER... like HOWE
you was JUST RECENTLY STUDYING with
gentleman jack and melanie... DOG ABUSING
MENTAL CASES that they are, based on their
own POSTED CASE HISTORIES, leah <{) ; ~ ) >
> that she's on her second round trying to explain it.
Well PERHAPS you'll INVITE Turid to TALK BUSINESS
with The Amazing Puppy Wizard, eh leah you miserable
lying dog abusing punk thug coward mental case...
> But it's making sense to me.
That so? BWEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
BETTER ROTATE YOUR ANTI PSYCHOTIC MEDS
leah, on accHOWENT of IF this EVER MAKES SENSE
to you, you'll DO the ONLY HONORABLE THING LEFT
to do under these EMBARRASSING circumstances...
> Dogs need down time for that adrenaline to dissipate.
NO. Dogs NEED to be NOT HURT INTIMDIATED
and WITHHELD bribes attention and affection, leah.
THAT'S HOWE COME DOGS GO NUTS you freakin
LYING DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARD MENTAL
CASE <{) ; ~ ) >
You got nodoGgamened BUSINESS postin here
abHOWETS you freak of human psychiatry. Was
it NOT for ANTI PSYCHOTIC MEDICATIONS you'd
be locked up tighter than a duck's ass (an THAT'S
freakin water proof) in a state run SECURE MENTAL
HOWES for the criminally INSANE <{) ; ~ ) >
> If they're constantly being engaged in activities
> that raise it,
Like WITHHOLDING BRIBES and CHOKIN
and PUNISHING and SCOLDING and LOCKIN
THEM IN BOXES and SPRAYIN AVERSIVES
in their faces to stop them from CRYIN when
they're SCARED OF YOU:
like YOUR MENTOR:
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K.
---------------------------------
"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
> it can be doing a lot of harm that we can't see
We AIN'T GOT TO SEE NUTHIN EXXXCEPT
the CASE HISTORY DATA in The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's ARCHIVES RIGHT HERE in
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums
and School Of HARD KNOCKS and HUMAN
BEHAVIOR RESEARCH LABORATORIES, leah.
YOU'RE SETTIN IN IT <{) ; ~ ) >
> (because the dog acts like he's having FUN)
Like when they do their "HAPPY DANCE"
when they see you bringin HOWET your
SHOCK and PRONGED SPIKED PINCH
CHOKE COLLARS for some FUN TRAININ.
> until the damage is done (such as ulcers).
CITES PLEASE, leah? If your PAL Turid is
QUOTING The Amazing Puppy Wizard please
ADVISE her that she could be forced to PAY
The Amazing Puppy Wizard from her published
accHOWENTS of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
ARCHIVES, leah... <{) ; ~ ) >
> As a chronic fatigue sufferer -
You're NOT a "chronic fatigue sufferer,"
leah, you're a BI POLAR OBSESSIVE
COMPULSIVE PATHOLOGICAL LIAR
and ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURABLE
ACUTE MENTAL CASE <{) ; ~ ) >
> which is a result of long periods of
> low-level stress without relief,
CuriHOWES ain't it HOWE The Amazing
Puppy Wizard has been TELLIN YOU THIS
FOR FIVE YEARS and you JUST FHOWEND
HOWET abHOWET The Puppy Wizard's
SYNDROME on accHOWENT of HIS READERS
PLAGIARIZED HIS WORKS on your clicker list...
BWEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!
Just so long as you bums AIN'T PUBLISHING
and MAKIN MONEY off of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's INFORMATION and SO LONG AS you
GIVE CREDIT when CITING The Amazing Puppy
Wizard you may do as you PREFER, so long as
YOU DON'T DO IT HERE on The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Forums.
REMEMBER leah? <{) ; ~ ) >
> according to my doctor -
Your DOCTOR COULDN'T CURE YOU, leah.
HOWEver, not to worry; professor SCRUFF
SHAKE got THE CURE for you. ASK HIM.
It WORKED for HIS DOG, leah <{) ; ~ ) >
> I can certainly grok this concept.
SERVIETTE?
> Leah Roberts, Family Dog Trainer
> It's A Dog's World
The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME:
The Puppy Wizard's FREE TEN STEP
DIAGNOSTIC / REHABILITATION PROGRAM
HOWEDY professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
'NO!' into ITS face for 5 seconds and lock IT in a box
for ten minutes contemplation" dermer, research
professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at UofWI,
"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=be06ls$j6...@uwm.edu...
> Max has a new problem:
> Max is our 5.5 yr old, neutered Havanese with a
> history of acute gastritis.
The Puppy Wizard believes your dog's health problems
are the physical manifestation of emotional distress.
> Max is fed four times daily for otherwise he vomits.
Ever consider it's your dysfunctional method
of intimidating, punishing, forcing control,
and mishandling him thru your preferred lunacy
of duminance, intimidation, forced restraint,
and your SCRUFF SHAKE???
Your dog Maxie The Magnificent Masturbator has
OCMD (obsessive compulsive masturbatory disorder),
a dissasociative anxiety relief mechanism.
It's his ONLY defense mechanism, bein as small
as he is. The Puppy Wizard's GIANT breed dogs
would simply SCRUFF SHAKE YOU, and BE DONE with
their ANXIETY, as YOU DO HIM.
> Max has had calcium oxalate uroliths removed about 9
> months ago and now exclusively eats Hills Canine U/D,
> plus rice cakes as treats.
INDEED. Bribing and withholding treats increases
anxiety, which is restimulated every time the
"command" he's been "taught" using withholding
of bribes is requested, even many years into the
future.
> Max has had a history of "attacks" that
> occur about every 30 days.
Your little dog Maxie The Magnificent Masturbator
has his DAILY ATTACKS of ANXIETY on any day
you fail to expiate his ANXIETY thru five miles of
bicycle chasing.
IS THAT NOT SO, professor SCRUFF SHAKE?
> Four attacks so far. He vomits, refuses food (but
> not water), and then either becomes lethargic or
> moves from position to position.
SHOWENDS like the same same same same
symptoms CHILDREN manifest, who DON'T
WANT TO GO TO SCHOOL.
> He often also develops a fever.
HOWE HIGH is his fever? The Puppy Wizard KNOWS
physical symptoms such as "idiopathic epilepsy" seizures,
"undiagnosed" intestinal and digestive disorders, ALL OCD
behaviors, endocrine malfunctions, and other PSYCHOSOMATIC
disorders can and USUALLY ARE, CAUSED BY STRESS.
> The attack two days ago went as follows:
> 1. He vomited at about 5:30 AM with nothing
> much in the vomit.
> 2. At about 9 AM I fed him a little rice
> ground chicken and he vomited this.
> 3. By 8 PM his temp was 102.5.
NORMAL temps are 101.5 - 102. THAT SUGGESTS to The
Puppy Wizard that Maxie The Magnificent Masturbator's
"FEVER" is PSYCHOSOMATIC, a result of non physical
STRESS, as in the "Spike & Squirt" phenomena described
in McProtection Training.
> 4. By 10 PM he was hot to the touch, panting,
> and moving from one position to another. He
> remained in a given position for only a few
> minutes.
Like HOWE a kid who's trying to get HOWET
of goin to school today...
> 5. By 3 PM the fever broke and he was
> resting comfortably.
Like HOWE a kid who's SUCCEEDED at gettin
HOWETA school today.
> 6. The following day he was returning to his normal behavior.
Like HOWE a kid who's SATISFIED at having
got HOWETA schoolYESTERDAY.
> 7. Two days, post attack, he is normal
> though he has loose, orange stool. This
> has cleared up with time.
These symptoms are COMMON, professor.
The Puppy Wizard has SEEN EVIDENCE in the
DEAD DOGS who've HAD NO SYMPTOMS while
boarded at The Puppy Wizard's kennels PRYOR
to being MISDIAGNOSED by "THE BEST" VETERINARY
SPECIALISTS.
SAME SAME as HOWER friend melanie chang has SEEN
with her dog Solo, while she was on vacation and
Solo had the BLISS of a NORMAL kennel ENVIRONMENT.
> AFTER these attacks we have brought Max to the vet.
KERCHING! KERCHING! KERCHING!
> An x-ray revealed nothing.
Well, it IS fortunate for the VET that
you're able to afford such luxury on a
professor's salary.
> A month ago, a sonogram was conducted and his blood
> was tested for one of the pancreatic enzymes (perhaps
> amalayse). The enzyme test was negative.
Well, as time endures and you continue to MISHANDLE him,
the physical symptoms will likely continue to exacerbate,
PROFESSOR. You'll get your "medical" findings, bye and bye,
no dHOWET.
> On reading the sonograms, a veterinary radiologist
> was not concerned about the sludge in Max's gall
> bladder but was concerned that the pancreas had a
> "hot spot" and that the walls of Max's stomach were
> thickened.
The CONSTANT intermittent STRESS CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING will break DHOWEN ANY organism.
> The radiologist recommended biopsies of the stomach
> wall and pancreas.
KERCHING! KERCHING! KERCHING!
> One month ago, when the sonogram was taken my vet
> was reluctant to perform the biopsies. He recommended
> putting Max on Pepcid AC daily.
PERHAPS your vet "KNOWS" sumpthin The Puppy
Wizard KNOWS, professor?
> So that is what we did. About 2.5 gm every
> 8 hrs. Despite the Pepcid AC Max had an attack
> two days ago.
PRECISELY. You cannot expect ANYTHING to override the
constant restimulation of STRESS produced by INTIMIDATION.
> Now my vet is suggesting exploratory surgery.
KERCHING! KERCHING! KERCHING!
> I've contacted Max's breeder for his parents
> produced about a dozen puppies. The breeder
> is not aware of such a problem with the other
> offspring.
These and other OCD related behaviors can be
duplicated EZ, professor.
> My wife is reluctant to have the exploratory surgery
> performed. I guess she wants to wait and see if
> Max has another attack. (I feel so sorry for Max
> as he endures these attacks.)
DO YOU NHOWE?
> Another approach is to bring Max in for a sonogram
> and additional diagnostic work WHEN HE IS ACCUTE.
KERCHING! KERCHING! KERCHING!
> I talked to the local emergency veterinary
> clinic and a doctor said that this is possible
> and it would be desirable for the clinic to
> have Max's records so that the clinic does
> not repeat tests.
A WIZE idea, professor.
> My own thought, if my wife would agree, is to
> have exploratory surgery about two weeks after
> an attack.
KERCHING! KERCHING! KERCHING!
> Any other options or thoughts?
INDEED, professor SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM 'NO!' into
ITS face and lock IT in a box for ten minutes reflection," dermer.
First and ONLY WON question is, DO YOU CRATE Maxie The
Magnificent Masturbator? That could be the primary cause
of his STRESS, as at the age of 5 years, he's unlikely to
have any behavior problems which you have not SCRUFF SHAKEN
HOWETA HIM.
Crating RESTIMULATES and REINFORCES phobias, professor.
You'll see EVIDENCE of THAT in Crystal Arcidy's reports
on her FREE WWW Wits' End Trained dog Starr.
See "Starry's Scary Night."
The Puppy Wizard has a recommendation and an option which
MIGHT resolve ALL HOWER problems, professor. The reason
the suggestion is modified by MIGHT is, on accHOWEnt of
The Puppy Wizard cannot control the environment if HE'S
not there to SUPERVISE implementation of the TECHNIQUES
HE offers you today.
Here's HOWE to CURE Maxie's OCD behavior's
and life threatening physical health dilemmas:
First, STUDY your FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.
Second, CALL The Puppy Wizard with all members of Maxie's
immediate family so we're ALL on the same page and NOBODY
will CONFLICT with or STRESS him in ANY WAY.
Third, STOP all BRIBES, CORRECTIONS, INTIMIDATION,
CRATING and discontinue excessive physical exercise
to expiate his anxiety. We WANT his behavior problems
to manifest SO WE CAN EXTINGUISH THEM.
Fourth, The Puppy Wizard will LOAN you for FREE,
HIS "AMAZING, MIRACULHOWES, INCREDIBLE"
MAGNIFICENT Doggy Do Right (And Kitty Will And
A Rooster Did And A Cockatoo Or Two Did Too)
Machine, and YOU will AGREE to FOLLOW HIS
INSTRUCTIONS.
Fifth, you or any family member will call The Puppy
Wizard IMMEDIATELY and relate details and ask
advice for appupriately controlling EACH and
EVERY instance of Maxie The Magnificent
Masturbator's inappropriate puppy behavior problems,
instead of tellin him "NO!" or otherWIZE negatively
interacting with him.
Sixth, you and each member of your immediate family
pack will work five minutes every other day learning
HOWE to expiate your dog Maxie The Magnificent
Masturbator's anxiety thru the MAGICK of The Puppy
Wizard's Four Step Heeling Pattern Exercise as articulated
in your FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual, to TEACH Maxie
there is NOTHING TO FEAR in MAKING MISTAKES.
Seventh, at the end of thirty days, you will report HOWER
findings to your veterinary, the head of your university
department of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM, and to the Whole
Wild World...
Eighth, IN RETURN, you will have your dog Maxie The
FORMER Magnificent Masturbator returned to EXCELLENT
health, and The Puppy Wizard agrees to FORGIVE and
FORGET ALL PAST INDISCRETIONS and SUBVERSIVE
activities you've committed against The Puppy Wizard and
all mankind...
Ninth, you will serve as EMISSARY and sever
as EXPERT WITNESS for The Puppy Wizard
and ENDORSE HIS METHODS and MACHINE
as the WON true way to CURE ALL animal and
child behavior problems and bring PEACE,
HEALTH, and PROSPERITY to the Whole Wild
World.
Tenth, IF YOU FAIL to succeed after your thirty day
EXPERIMENT, you'll agree to ship Maxie The Magnificent
Masturbator TO The Puppy Wizard at HIS EXPENSE,
for a two week stay FOR FREE, to PERFORM THE
MAGICK HISSELF.
> Thanks,
It don't get no goddamned better than THAT, professor.
> --Marshall
Thank you,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
BIOSOUND Scientific
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092
The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard. <}TFSAPW ; ~ ) >
ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?
,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizard. <{)YPW ; ~ } >
oo-oo
Paula
Labs don't like to be away from their people and can be pretty
destructive if left to entertain themselves. They especially love to
have everything in their mouths and are notorious chewers. If you
must leave the dog outside while you are gone, a dogloo or something
similar would be a better option.
--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy,
so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay
Paula
>"How do you know that? Have you HAD a lab puppy before?"
>-Because there is nothing else in my yard. I have had a puppy, not a
>lab puppy. Why the attitude again? Why are you arguing things like
>what I have in my yard when you don't know anything about it, and I've
>repeated that there isn't anything else to mess up in the yard several
>times now.
I have had a lab puppy and other dogs as well. She is not giving you
attitude as much as she is shocked that anyone would say it is
unlikely that a lab would chew up anything and everything it could get
its mouth on if left unsupervised and bored in a yard all day.
I know all this sounds like a ton of trouble, but there is a reason so
many adolescent labs end up in shelters. Actually, there is a great
solution there. If you got an adult lab instead of a puppy, you would
not have to feed it four times a day and it would be past its puppy
chewing stage, though labs never do get completely past all chewing
without training. They were bred, after all, to want to run around
with stuff in their mouths. Contact your local lab rescue or check
out petfinder.com. You should have no trouble finding a purebred lab
past the puppy stages of needing to eat often and chew all the time.
Finding one that has been trained on how to behave in the house would
be an added bonus. I have a German Shepherd that I got from rescue
who came to me already housebroken, rock solid on not chewing anything
in the house, somewhat obedience trained and fiercely loyal and
loving. She doesn't care when she gets fed as long as she gets enough
to keep her going. She stays in the house all day while we are gone
without being crated (but I'd be willing to bet that would not have
been a safe thing to do when she was a puppy no matter how great an
adult she is). She is not so old that I am at risk of losing her any
time soon. She is more bonded to me than the dogs I raised as puppies
and seems to really appreciate what she has here and want to please me
and show her appreciation. She loves being outside, but would be
miserable if out there all day without her humans. That is where you
pee and poop, not the den the family belongs in. It's like being
outcast to be banished there for long periods of time when the rest of
your pack is elsewhere.
You couldn't pay me to take in another lab puppy. If you must get a
lab, get an adult. If you must have a puppy, think of something other
than a lab. I'm talking completely for your sake, even if you don't
care about what the people here think.
Mary Beth
news:1144703431.2...@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> "3 month old puppies? You bet. You DO know you're getting a PUPPY,
> right? And that s/her has physical needs?"
> -I'll be feeding the dog, at most, 3 times a day. I'll find some
> authority on what type of food, how often, meal size, etc, before I get
> the dog.
With whom will you check? Are you buying from a responsible breeder? Hope
so.
If it's a large breed, you do know not to feed large breed dog food, for
many of the large breeds? Yeah, don't g
feed it large breed puppy food, usually too much proteins and others to help
the pup grow too fast. Check with others on here....
"You'd be amazed at some of the "nice" neighborhoods where weird stuff
> happens. And yes, there are rock eaters and that can kill a
> puppy/dog. Dogs can do weird things when they're bored. Have you HAD
> a dog before?"
> -If you're inferring that I shouldn't be shocked or appalled if someone
> poisons my dog, then you're way off base. If you're inferring that it
> is a reasonable risk that someone will poison my dog, then again,
> you're way off base. Yes, I've had a dog. Yes, I've had a puppy, why
> the attitude?
If you're really concerned about your dog, then you'll do well to at least
consider all of these actions, against your pup. You're way off base, with
your assumptions about other people.
Unless you live in the middle of nowhere, with no neighbors around to hear
the pup bark it's fool head off while you're gone, not being able to train
it, for awhile....
Even the nicest neighbors are going to get a bit tired of a barking puppy,
which, if the pup can see out and around the yard, it will do....for long
periods of time, until you train it not to. Bark bark bark that is...
> "Crate training has many advantages, one being that it's indoors.
> "locking her in a crate for hours at a time" is a way of putting it to
> make it sound awful, or "safely confining in a crate for periods of
> time", which is reasonable, safe, humane, and generally, a good idea.
> There are many benefits to crate training. Where will she be
> overnight?"
> -I'm going to put her in the laundry machine overnight, where she can't
> get out or cause trouble. Kidding, she'll be in a crate overnight.
> What dog wouldn't want to be outside in a secure safe yard as opposed
> to in a crate.
What child wouldn't love to drive a car, jump in a pool even tho they can't
swim.....etc. Yeah, we're talking dogs here, I know. But if children can get
into things, they eventually grow out of it. Dogs, especially *labs* are
like goats, they'll eat anything and everything! Come visit my gal,Boo. :)
It's OUR responsiblity to watch over everything our dogs, especially pups
get into. And you can bet your bottom dollar that a lab pup WILL find
soemhow to chew something bad for it even in a (mostly) bare yard. It's up
to us to police it everyday a few times to make sure no one has tossed
anything in there, poison or just junk.
Well meaning ppl can feed you pup foods/treats it should NEVER get, as in
*COOKED* bones, and such, thinking they are doing your pup a great favor!
IF you're lucky it just may be a $900.00 surgery to cut open the tummy to
remove any objects that children/anyone tosses into the yard.
So, yeah, I know my dogs are happier outside than in a crate, but they would
RATHER be with me, than anywhere else. IF a person is at work, they're in
the crate, getting breaks from ppl to stop by and let your pup out here and
there, water feed, etc.
And just how long does it take to crate train a dog, anyway? Not very if you
know what you're doing. Took me less than 2 mo, with an 8 week old golden,
about 3 months on a 4 mo old lab gal, (and she still chewed everything in
sight when out of the crate, my mistake not tying her to me, to watch her at
all times). WHILE training. Zack, a never inside before rescue, at 2 yr old,
took about 2 nites in the crate and one squat, (without any delivery yet),
to be told to take it 'out'. He learned from the other two, mostly.
So the crate training didn't take long, until I could leave my dogs loose in
the home, perhaps, with the lab, you'd want to move up room by room.
Leaving a dog outside all day, alone will do no good for any training
sessions. How will you housebreak?
> "Once again, you'd be surprised. If you think your community is not at
>
> risk, you are wrong."
> -Every community is "at risk" for dog theft, but I'm not going to leave
> my puppy in a crate for fear of being stolen. Once again, I WON'T be
> surprised that things like dog theft happen. Again, I'm not sure why
> you have the arrogant attitude about what you know and I don't.
Janet has been in dogs and dog rescue for many years. She has seen, as I
have, the results of dogs left outside. Poisoning is NOT so far out there,
if the pup bothers anyone, especially the ppl who work graveyard.
Not just poisoning but the tormenting you're so sure won't happen, does
happen all the time. Not the least kids, but all other animals, especially
birds, squirrels, rabbits and such!
Are you in the city?
In the country? Watch out for hawks/coyotes/etc while the pup is fenced
*in*.... are they all fenced *out*?
> "What kind of structure do you have around the yard?"
> -A 6 foot fence with a dig proof barrier around the bottom.
>
> "Sounds like a fun yard!"
> -It will be for a puppy. Didn't realize this was the landscaping
> forum. Don't worry though, you won't have to come by and look at my
> mostly boring yard.
I'll leave the 'you're leaving a !!!!!!!LAB!!!!!!!! outside with nothing to
exercise/play with/get into ????' posts up to most of the rest of us...
You want the best base for the dog run, try sand. About 6 inches of it. We
have our yard 'sanded' about twice a year, with three big dogs, in a 70' X
15' fenced in 6 ft. chain link, brand new. No mud in the house, no sandy
grit either as they walk up onto the deck and across to get into the house,
directly from the dog yard.
> "How do you know that? Have you HAD a lab puppy before?"
> -Because there is nothing else in my yard. I have had a puppy, not a
> lab puppy. Why the attitude again? Why are you arguing things like
> what I have in my yard when you don't know anything about it, and I've
> repeated that there isn't anything else to mess up in the yard several
> times now.
How about not just 'holes' but 'cauldrons' ? My lab bit, er, um 'Witch' digs
large cauldrons, collects twigs and fills the 'cauldrons' with them. Lots of
large mines, in DIRT. (Why we use sand, now.)
The holes were always filled with water, (mosquito breeding grounds). Stick
around you'll hear all the "How do I stop my dogs from digging?' posts. Get
used to no grass, too.
A LABRADOR puppy is going to be one heck of a rambunctious puppy, so by
Janet asking if you've had one already, (and you haven't), she's only
looking out for the rescues coming up. Too many ppl get labs, as they are
'such great natured', yup they are, but they don't catch their 'brains'
until about 2 yrs old, if lucky! They are a LOT of work, and if you're going
to crate the pup at nite too, you really need to think think think about
getting a pup if you're going to be gone 8 hours a day, and the pup's alone.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, next thing ya know, those cute pups wind up at the
pound,(where I got my lab), rescue or dead. And ppl like Janet, and many
here have seen all too well what happens to too many dogs, especially the
'energetic ones'. Labs needs hours and hours of training every day for a
long time. Even when trained, they need brain exercise too.
A *bored* labby dog is NOTNOTNOT going to make *you* happy, nor itself.
Anyway, if you got to spend a day at the humane society trying to pick out
just 4 lab pups to SAVE from death due to lack of space, at the pounds,
etc., out of 8 very cute lab pups, and know the others will have a lesser
chance of living, then maybe just maybe you may have an idea of just how
frustrating it is when ppl talk about keeping a pup in the yard while at
work.
> "But lab pups are notorious for chewing and finding things to do
> when they're bored. If you're working all day and not coming home,
> that means she isn't getting any interaction, training, or exercise
> all day. Hope you're planning on a lot once home, but that won't stop
> her from getting bored and destructive during the day."
> -She'll be getting plenty of attention at night of course, and some
> during lunch during the week, hopefully every day. We also have a rat
> terrier, which will be outside with the lab during the day.
Don't count on these two romping and exercising each other. The terrier will
most likely be 'terrorising the pup' for quite a bit.
Before you adopt, try 'fostering' a lab pup. Take him/her home, live with
them for a bit, then decide if it's for you...AND your other dog.
That is, if you can get a 'rescue group' to allow you to take one home. They
will be very specific about whom they let adopt the dogs. And that's only
because they want to find *permanent* homes, not have to rehome and rehome
the same pup all the time, mainly because the first owner didn't work with
it for MANY hours at it's most impressionable age, 4 - 12 months, give or
take.
> I'm fine with getting tips and advice from people, but absolutely can't
> stand the arrogance and attitude I get sometimes. You're representing
> a website, and a business I assume, why not be a little more modest
> with your advice, and less assuming and attacking?
Why not try to understand the *thousands* of ppl who 'want to leave a new
pup outside all day alone' posts that we see here. The ones that either we
stay in touch with, as they *listen* to what ppl say, (grow a tougher skin),
or we never hear from them again.
Then there are the ones that come back and either try to find out about
another dog, after they've lost/gave up/put down the other ones, after ppl
here gave them great advice.
Multiply that for, lesseee, hmmm *I* have been here for 10 yrs. Janet many
more, and all the hundreds of other repsonsible owners with good advice, the
thousands of pups we see/hear about being mistreated or given up. Then just
re-read Janet's posts, with that in mind. If she sounds too harsh, it's
because she wants 100% great and dependable *forever* homes for all dogs, as
do most of the rest of us here.
MaryBeth