Praise for Hawthorne, CA Police
fouralpha1
young boys were attacked by a neighbors Pit Bull. According to the boys'
mother, the boys had been playing ball and the ball went over the fence
into the neighbor's yard. When they went in to retrieve it, the dog
attacked them. 911 was called, and when police arrived they were
forced to shoot the dog.
Both boys were transported to the hospital; one was released today, and
the other remains in the hospital from his injuries.
The neighbor (on camera) complained that his dog was 'just doing its job'.
My commentary: While it may be true the children were 'tresspassing',
that is, at most, a misdemeanor, and hardly a 'crime' deserving a vicious
mauling. It must also be kept in mind that children do incredibly stupid
things on the spur of the moment (and I don't want to hear about their
'irresponsible parents'. I was a kid once too, and know they can't watch
you every second.) This dog owner maintained a vicious animal with no
safeguards in place to prevent it from attacking people, and should suffer
the same consequences as an individual who keeps an unfenced swimming pool
in which a child drowns.
Christy
The dog was later determined to be an American Bulldog. Are you anti AB too?
I won't discuss the rest of your argument, because it isn't dog related,
except to say that owners of many dog breeds are irresponsible, and many
parents are as well.
Christy
fouralpha1 <wild...@nospam.empirenet.com> wrote in message
news:7lhltf$jgs$1...@e4.empirenet.com...
Elaine Gallant
Kids can learn at a very early age that some things are foolhardy and can
very easily result in their deaths.
What if the boys decided that they were going to go down onto the freeway
to retrieve their ball? Would anyone be saying, "oh, kids do silly things
sometimes, they don't need to die for it." Nope. The only comments would
run along the lines, " stupid little shits".
It all comes down to the fact that we respect the power of the freeway or
the railroad tracks. If they decided they were going to challenge the
right-of-way of a train, there would again be little sympathy for them.
We don't actually respect the rights of the individual to their own private
property.
Why did anyone THINK that a person would keep a big mean dog like that in
their yard in Hawthorne? Because it's very likely that they had been robbed
in the past.
Children in rough areas start doing crime very early. Young kids are often
used as drug runners or triggermen because under a given age, they can't be
procecuted for crimes.
A 5 year old on a tricycle can sit on a streetcorner or driveway, and be a
lookout for police.
fouralpha1 wrote in message <7lhltf$jgs$1...@e4.empirenet.com>...
Elaine Gallant
Wow...American Bulldog. Those are expensive dogs. I asked about them a few
years ago, and they were running at about a thousand dollars then.
Christy wrote in message <7lj3vq$q...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>...
>KATE -
>The dog was later determined to be an American Bulldog. Are you anti AB
too?
>I won't discuss the rest of your argument, because it isn't dog related,
>except to say that owners of many dog breeds are irresponsible, and many
>parents are as well.
>
>Christy
>
>
>
>fouralpha1 <wild...@nospam.empirenet.com> wrote in message
>news:7lhltf$jgs$1...@e4.empirenet.com...
shelly
(fouralpha1) wrote:
>6/30/99 Hawthorne, CA/ Hawthorne Police responded to a 911 call when two
>young boys were attacked by a neighbors Pit Bull. According to the boys'
>mother, the boys had been playing ball and the ball went over the fence
>into the neighbor's yard. When they went in to retrieve it, the dog
>attacked them. 911 was called, and when police arrived they were
>forced to shoot the dog.
>
>Both boys were transported to the hospital; one was released today, and
>the other remains in the hospital from his injuries.
>
>The neighbor (on camera) complained that his dog was 'just doing its job'.
>
>My commentary: While it may be true the children were 'tresspassing',
>that is, at most, a misdemeanor, and hardly a 'crime' deserving a vicious
>mauling. It must also be kept in mind that children do incredibly stupid
>things on the spur of the moment (and I don't want to hear about their
>'irresponsible parents'. I was a kid once too, and know they can't watch
>you every second.) This dog owner maintained a vicious animal with no
>safeguards in place to prevent it from attacking people, and should suffer
>the same consequences as an individual who keeps an unfenced swimming pool
>in which a child drowns.
interesting logic. it's okay for a kid to climb over
someone's fence to retrieve a ball but you expect a fence
around a swimming pool to keep them out??? i would think
that a fence around either one *should* be sufficient to
keep uninvited people out. i just can't imagine entering a
fenced yard without permission from the owner.
also, the breed of dog has less than nothing to do with
anything. the kids could just as easily have climbed over
the fence to find a soft, cuddly golden retriever just
waiting to eat them.
--shelly (looking around for JohnR)
L.
hatred of apbts that you don't even report the facts. it was not a pit
bull, for one. and for two, it's irrelevant whether the kids were
being "just kids" or not. the dog doesn't know why they're in the
yard. if it was a burglar (even a kid burglar) up to no good the dog
would have behaved the same way.
grow up you silly goose.
L.
________
Lincoln Stewart
Alien Tomato
http://www.alientomato.com
hu...@bsalientomato.com
Sprint2
shelly <scouv...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:377d21c3...@news.bsu.edu...
<snip> This dog owner maintained a vicious animal with no
> >safeguards in place to prevent it from attacking people, and
should suffer
> >the same consequences as an individual who keeps an unfenced
swimming pool
> >in which a child drowns.
>
> interesting logic. it's okay for a kid to climb over
> someone's fence to retrieve a ball but you expect a fence
> around a swimming pool to keep them out??? i would think
> that a fence around either one *should* be sufficient to
> keep uninvited people out. i just can't imagine entering a
> fenced yard without permission from the owner.
>
AMEN!!!! If one of my kids ever even THOUGHT about entering
someone else's yard without their permission they wouldn't sit
down for a week. Obviously no one took the time to explain to
kids that you just don't hop someone's fence because YOU threw
the ball over their fence. You knock on the door. And if they're
not home then you come back when they are!! My children have been
taught this, why weren't these kids taught respect for other
people and their property?
> also, the breed of dog has less than nothing to do with
> anything. the kids could just as easily have climbed over
> the fence to find a soft, cuddly golden retriever just
> waiting to eat them.
>
Or a bad tempered Chi who could have chewed the heck out of their
ankles. ;^D
--
~Darlene~
Remove me to reply. ;^)
Scamp's Internet Resources, lot's of great links!
http://members.tripod.com/scampsite Pet links!
Doggy Do Right is going to make me a multimillionaire.
That's genius. Jerry Howe
avrama gingold
> young boys were attacked by a neighbors Pit Bull. According to the boys'
> mother, the boys had been playing ball and the ball went over the fence
> into the neighbor's yard. When they went in to retrieve it, the dog
> attacked them. 911 was called, and when police arrived they were
> forced to shoot the dog.
>
> Both boys were transported to the hospital; one was released today, and
> the other remains in the hospital from his injuries.
>
> The neighbor (on camera) complained that his dog was 'just doing its job'.
>
> My commentary: While it may be true the children were 'tresspassing',
> that is, at most, a misdemeanor, and hardly a 'crime' deserving a vicious
> mauling. It must also be kept in mind that children do incredibly stupid
> things on the spur of the moment (and I don't want to hear about their
> 'irresponsible parents'. I was a kid once too, and know they can't watch
> safeguards in place to prevent it from attacking people, and should suffer
> the same consequences as an individual who keeps an unfenced swimming pool
> in which a child drowns.
>
Bovine feces! The dog was behind a fence, in a fenced-in yard. Yes, it is
a tragedy. But this is not a case where an owner kept an unfenced swimming
pool (an "attractive nuisance" without safeguards).
Perhaps it may have been necessary to kill the dog to save the children,
perhaps not. Neither you nor I were there.
But to accuse the owner of carelessness is ridiculous. As the old
expression goes, "shit happens," and this is just one sad case. The owner
of the dog is probably feeling bad enough about the children, and about
his/her dog, without fools making irrational accusations.
avrama & shomer
avr...@mindspring.com
>
>
>
avrama gingold
news:7lhltf$jgs$1...@e4.empirenet.com...
> 6/30/99 Hawthorne, CA/ Hawthorne Police responded to a 911 call when two
> young boys were attacked by a neighbors Pit Bull. According to the boys'
> mother, the boys had been playing ball and the ball went over the fence
> into the neighbor's yard. When they went in to retrieve it, the dog
> attacked them. 911 was called, and when police arrived they were
> forced to shoot the dog.
>
> in which a child drowns.
>
reading. Notice: the children had to go INTO A FENCED-IN YARD. Yes, it is
a tragedy, but not one where the owner of the dog can be blamed. The dog
was contained, and the children were the trespassers.
Common sense, please--it is not that uncommon but you may have heard of it.
avrama & shomer
>
>
>
Elaine Gallant
Kids in neighborhoods like that will intentionally throw a ball into
people's yards as an excuse to go into the yard to steal. They work in
pairs- one is a lookout.
Sprint2 wrote in message ...
>
>shelly <scouv...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:377d21c3...@news.bsu.edu...
><snip> This dog owner maintained a vicious animal with no
>> >safeguards in place to prevent it from attacking people, and
>should suffer
>> >the same consequences as an individual who keeps an unfenced
>swimming pool
>> >in which a child drowns.
>>
Tricia
Elaine Gallant <elaine....@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7lj6cg$4jk$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net...
Perhaps a re-run will make it comprehensible to those whose native
language is English [as she was spoken], French, Finnish, or whatever.
If not, help?
Tricia
Jean H.
shelly wrote in message <377d21c3...@news.bsu.edu>...
>anything. the kids could just as easily have climbed over
>the fence to find a soft, cuddly golden retriever just
>waiting to eat them.
>
Shelly,
That is so true. When I was growing up we owned a Cocker Spaniel. Sweetest
thing you ever saw, she would even let the kids in. But if they went to
touch her, she would have bit the hell out of them. And when they want too
a Cocker or any dog can do a lot of damage to a child.
Jean H.
fouralpha1
chr...@nospam.ix.netcom.com says...
>
>KATE -
>The dog was later determined to be an American Bulldog. Are you anti AB
too?
>I won't discuss the rest of your argument, because it isn't dog related,
>except to say that owners of many dog breeds are irresponsible, and many
>parents are as well.
>
>Christy
>
error) an 'English Bulldog' (you know, the ones that look like Winston
Churchill;) then your information is *false*. The dog was shown on
camera, and *was* a PB.
fouralpha1
elaine....@worldnet.att.net says...
>
>
> Wow...American Bulldog. Those are expensive dogs. I asked about them a
few
>years ago, and they were running at about a thousand dollars then.
See my response to Christy's message. It was NOT a Bulldog (as in the
short, stout, muscular dogs that look like Winston Churchill;). The dog
was shown on camera - a photo of it anyway - and I couldn't tell you
whether it was a purebred Amstaff or a backyard PB, but it *was* one of
those. As I recall, it was said to weigh 95 pounds, and was primarily
white.
fouralpha1
elaine....@worldnet.att.net says...
(all kinds of kid-bashing snipped)
> A 5 year old on a tricycle can sit on a streetcorner or driveway, and be
a
>lookout for police.
>
Geez..and some people here have slammed *me* because I sometimes post on
the 'childfree' group! Even *I*, the 'child hater', doesn't want them
*dead*!!
fouralpha1
elaine....@worldnet.att.net says...
>
>
> Kids in neighborhoods like that will intentionally throw a ball into
>people's yards as an excuse to go into the yard to steal. They work in
>pairs- one is a lookout.
yet more spewing of 'child hatred' from Elaine... Like I posted before,
even *I* don't think they deserve the death penalty for being 'brats'!!
>Sprint2 wrote in message ...
>>
>>shelly <scouv...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>AMEN!!!! If one of my kids ever even THOUGHT about entering
>>someone else's yard without their permission they wouldn't sit
>>down for a week. Obviously no one took the time to explain to
>>kids that you just don't hop someone's fence because YOU threw
>>the ball over their fence. You knock on the door. And if they're
>>not home then you come back when they are!! My children have been
>>taught this, why weren't these kids taught respect for other
>>people and their property?
My understanding is that the kids in question were quite young - below the
legally defined 'age of reason' or whatever it's called when they're
thought to be old/mature/wise/whatever enough to know what they're doing
is wrong and understand the consequences.
John F Richardson
:Christy, if my 'American Bulldog' you
:mean what is sometimes called (in error)
:an 'English Bulldog'
Presumably Christy means American
Bulldog. :D
JohnR
Pit Bull Libertarian
John F Richardson
flame war????? *That* would be
worth the price of admission!
JohnR
Pit Bull Libertarian
Jean H.
There is such a thing as an American Bulldog. They are mostly white, and
are 65+ pounds. and they are tall like an Amstaff or APBT. If you would
like to see one go to this website http://arba.org and then look under
working dogs. You can also look at the new Homeward bound movie, the dog in
it Chance is an Am. Bulldog.
Jean H.
fouralpha1 wrote in message <7llvst$9nk$2...@e4.empirenet.com>...
>In article <7lj3vq$q...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>,
>chr...@nospam.ix.netcom.com says...
>>
>>KATE -
>>The dog was later determined to be an American Bulldog. Are you anti AB
>too?
>>I won't discuss the rest of your argument, because it isn't dog related,
>>except to say that owners of many dog breeds are irresponsible, and many
>>parents are as well.
>>
>>Christy
>>
>Christy, if my 'American Bulldog' you mean what is sometimes called (in
>error) an 'English Bulldog' (you know, the ones that look like Winston
>Churchill;) then your information is *false*. The dog was shown on
Karen DC
and have been for years. They look to me to be a stabilized oversized
combination of pit and English bulldog. From what little I've seen and
read about them, they were developed in the deep South, Georgia I think
[may be wrong on that, if so I'm sorry]. For nearly 20 years I've seen
ads for Johnson's American Bulldogs. And I've also seen them in some of
the grade B 'adventure' movies, very well-trained there, obviously. They
don't seem to have a whole lot to recommend them as family pets.
Karen DC
90#, males up to 130 or so.
fouralpha1 wrote:
>
> In article <7lj6j4$5c3$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>,
> elaine....@worldnet.att.net says...
> >
> >
> > Wow...American Bulldog. Those are expensive dogs. I asked about them a
> few
> >years ago, and they were running at about a thousand dollars then.
>
> See my response to Christy's message. It was NOT a Bulldog (as in the
> short, stout, muscular dogs that look like Winston Churchill;). The dog
John F Richardson
:For nearly 20 years I've seen ads for
:Johnson's American Bulldogs.
The Johnsons have been at it for
something like 60-70 years.
:They don't seem to have a whole lot
:to recommend them as family pets.
Many would disagree wholeheartedly
with that.
JohnR
Pit Bull Libertarian
Karen DC
seen. :) And I'm sure lots of people do like them, I just prefer the
retriever, spaniel, bc, northern, and hound types -- they are what I
grew up with and mostly what I've had as an adult. Maybe I should have
said they don't seem to have a lot to recommend them to ME as family
dogs. I also tend to have mixed lots of all kinds around all living
together in a lump, along with cats and birds, and in years past small
livestock. Any type of dog that might be even remotely dog-aggressive
just isn't on my list. Anyone else can have what ever they want [as long
as it stays out of my yard if it's dog-aggressive]. We used to live next
door to a Mal bitch who constantly tried to get to my bc, it wasn't
amusing in the least.
Christy
local news and was clearly an "American Bulldog." Read up on dog breeds,
Hate. It will give you lots more breeds to drool over the potential to ban -
Tosa Inu! Olde English Bulldogge! Cane Corso!! Neopolitan Mastiff!! None of
which are APBT, incidentally, nor are they American Bulldogs, or English
Bulldogs, or Staffordshire Bull Terriers, or Bull Terriers, or Am Staffs,
etc. etc. etc.
Christy
fouralpha1 <wild...@nospam.empirenet.com> wrote in message
news:7llvst$9nk$2...@e4.empirenet.com...
Christy
fouralpha1 <wild...@nospam.empirenet.com> wrote in message news:7lmksk$ln2
When it comes to PBs, Amstaffs and your 'American Bulldogs', who
> are we fooling though? They were all bred to do the same thing, and look
> very much alike, showing a common ancestry.
>
AB's really don't look very much like APBTs or Am Staffs. They are shorter
muzzled with wider heads, and their builds are different. The actually look
more like white Boxer mixes.
Did you know that the AKC doesn't recognize hundreds of breeds? Doesn't make
them any less of a purebred. Check my last reply for some examples.
Open your eyes...
Christy
fouralpha1
>
>Kate,
>
>There is such a thing as an American Bulldog. They are mostly white, and
>are 65+ pounds. and they are tall like an Amstaff or APBT. If you
would
>like to see one go to this website http://arba.org and then look under
>working dogs. You can also look at the new Homeward bound movie, the dog
in
>it Chance is an Am. Bulldog.
>
>Jean H.
>
dog is very endearing. To the best of my knowledge though, 'American
Bulldogs' are not accepted by the AKC as a recognized breed, so it pretty
much comes down to 'if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it
probably *is* a duck..' You can call them American Bulldogs, or St.
Whatever Terriers (whatever that nonesense name some shelter came up with)
but it doesn't change a)what the dog looks like, or b)what it was bred to
do. I *know* the difference between Bulldogs, Boxers, and PBs, okay? I
would never mistake one for the other, and find it amazing that anyone
could. When it comes to PBs, Amstaffs and your 'American Bulldogs', who
L.
wrote:
>I've seen the movie (too many times to count), and yes, that particular
>dog is very endearing. To the best of my knowledge though, 'American
>Bulldogs' are not accepted by the AKC as a recognized breed, so it pretty
>much comes down to 'if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it
>probably *is* a duck..'
who gives a rat's ass what the akc recognizes. there are plenty of
breeds it doesn't recognize. can you cut your own meat or do you
always get your daddy to do it?
>You can call them American Bulldogs, or St.
>Whatever Terriers (whatever that nonesense name some shelter came up with)
that was st. francis terrier. and they never claimed they weren't
apbts or amstaffs. it was part of a promotional campaign to help save
the dog from morons like yourself. they were in no way denying they
were pits.
>but it doesn't change a)what the dog looks like, or b)what it was bred to
>do. I *know* the difference between Bulldogs, Boxers, and PBs, okay?
obviously you do not. there are different types of bulldogs. british,
american, french. one looks like winston churchill
(british--apparently the only bulldog you've ever heard of), another
looks like a apbt to someone who doesn't have too much experience with
apbts (american), the other looks like a pug (french). they are all
different dogs. they are all bull dogs. the dog in question was an
american bulldog and not a pit bull or amstaff.
> I
>would never mistake one for the other, and find it amazing that anyone
>could.
well obviously you did.
>When it comes to PBs, Amstaffs and your 'American Bulldogs', who
>are we fooling though? They were all bred to do the same thing, and look
>very much alike, showing a common ancestry.
first you deny that there is such a breed (or imply it is another name
for an apbt) and now you claim to be aware of its breeding history.
you really are quite dense, misinformed, and ignorant.
Jean H.
fouralpha1 wrote in message <7lmksk$ln2$1...@e4.empirenet.com>...
>In article <93104413...@news.remarQ.com>, apa...@dmv.com says...
>>
>>Kate,
>>
>>There is such a thing as an American Bulldog. They are mostly white, and
>>are 65+ pounds. and they are tall like an Amstaff or APBT. If you
>would
>>like to see one go to this website http://arba.org and then look under
>>working dogs. You can also look at the new Homeward bound movie, the dog
>in
>>it Chance is an Am. Bulldog.
>>
>>Jean H.
>>
>dog is very endearing. To the best of my knowledge though, 'American
>Bulldogs' are not accepted by the AKC as a recognized breed, so it pretty
>much comes down to 'if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it
>Whatever Terriers (whatever that nonesense name some shelter came up with)
>would never mistake one for the other, and find it amazing that anyone
>are we fooling though? They were all bred to do the same thing, and look
>very much alike, showing a common ancestry.
>
I did not reference the AKC home page, I referenced the Am. Rare Breed
homepage. What does the fact that the AKC not recognizing them have to do
with anything? And Just because they don't reference them doesn't mean they
aren't a pure bred dog and a breed all on their own.
And You already did mistake one for the other.
Jean H.
MaryBeth
ROFLMAO BITCH fight !!!!
This should be fun, yer right, John !
MaryBeth
fouralpha1
says...
PBs. As for Elaine, I don't know her, have nothing against her, aside
from disagreeing sometimes with her views, so you'll have to trot on out
to your backyard (with the old tires and cars up on blocks) and get your
kicks putting together an 'wholesome, invigorating' dog fight. Yup,
that's real 'downhome, American entertainment' at its best - break out the
corn likker Maw, fire up the bar-b-que (made from an old oil drum of
course), and let's watch them thar PBs rip each other apart. yee haw...
Rick
case, if the story were 2 kids jump some guys fence and are mauled by a
cocker the police wouldn't have ever shot the dog? The police would have
waited till the owner got home, and the owner, not the dog would have been
penalized. I know that is what I would have done. What is the difference
if you shot the dog right there in the yard, or talking to the owner and
have the dog put down at a later time by a vet?
Another note, you come home from work. You find police and neighbors
standing in your yard as you learn that some kids went in your yard. Then
you learn the police shot your dog for being a mean Pit that bit the kids
that went in your (his) yard. Then they tell you that your mean pit is too
blame for all of this, and the dog turns out to be an over grown Boston
terrier!! Then they say, "da... well we shot it cause it bit the kid".
What is your reaction at this point? Wow would I be on fire.
Don't shot one breed and not another, and don't shot dogs if they don't have
to be shot just like you wouldn't shot people. Don't let your City get away
with it. If this happened in my city I would be nervous. A Pit was shot in
my city last year, but it was running down the street. The dog didn't bite
anyone, it had attacked a small dog. If some one ever peered over my fence
with a gun and shot at my dog, I would shot back. That dog was tried in his
backyard by a cop with no defense and then sentenced. Probably just barking
and telling the cop to get out of his yard the whole time.
So now what happens to a cop that shot the dog because it was a breed, that
turns out, its not? Take his gun. You realize now that this cop has to
make judgment calls? Obviously he makes them pretty quick. Did he come out
a hero in your city for this mess? How well did the media do making him a
hero?
If you can't tell the difference between breeds, how many do you ban when
you ban one? If we ban Akitas can I get a GSD? If we ban Pits can I get a
AB?
I am young in my own mind (30 actually). I do remember my child hood very
well. Am I the only kid that would check for a dog on the other side of a
fence before jumping? When I saw a dog on the other side it meant don't
jump. Didn't matter what kind, I was much more concerned with size than
breed. I was a little nervous about dogs when I was a kid, but I think I
checked because I wasn't stupid.....
People better get use to kids getting hurt by doing stupid things if they
are going to worry about Pits breeding instead of stupid people breeding.
I think more cars hurt kids last year than Pits, so I say a law is passed
that all cars in the US need to be made of Nerf (like the football) <grin>.
We will take one kid killer at a time.
Many reactions came to this thread about Pits. Would those who praised the
police for shooting an AB thinking it was a Pit, and would like to see a Pit
ban recognize your ignorance and PLEASE STOP VOTING!!! This country can't
afford you thinking for them anymore. Stop worrying about dogs and read a
*F*en book.
Usually a reactive decisions are not the best. Educated well thought out
decisions seem to work out, but we don't always have the time. In this case
I think time is all they had. The damage was done, and the end result
didn't make any thing better. Yet when it was a Pit the mistake was O.K.?
Research is knowledge, but it can only be done with an open mind. If you
don't look at every option, you have assumed something. Once you have
assumed something you are lacking knowledge.....
Rick
Owner of Buster (APBT) the dog that was bleeding yesterday from his
brother-in-law's 21 week old female golden.
L. <hu...@bsalientomato.com> wrote in message
news:377d2f88...@nntp.netcom.ca...
> your argument is weak to say the least. you are so blinded by your
> hatred of apbts that you don't even report the facts. it was not a pit
> bull, for one. and for two, it's irrelevant whether the kids were
> being "just kids" or not. the dog doesn't know why they're in the
> yard. if it was a burglar (even a kid burglar) up to no good the dog
> would have behaved the same way.
>
> grow up you silly goose.
>
fouralpha1
says...
>who gives a rat's ass what the akc recognizes. there are plenty of
>breeds it doesn't recognize. can you cut your own meat or do you
>always get your daddy to do it?
Apparently, a lot of people *do* give a rats ass. While I disagree with
the AKCs refusal to take a stand on things like puppymills (that 'we don't
get involved' shit only works for Switzerland), I've also recently seen
the poor quality of animals submitted in non-AKC shows. The recent
'International Dog Show' in Mexico is a good example. The difference was
especially apparent with the Madison Square Garden show so fresh in
memory. With the exception of the AKC recognized breeds showing, it
looked like a dog 'show' for mutts Don King might throw together.
>that was st. francis terrier. and they never claimed they weren't
>apbts or amstaffs. it was part of a promotional campaign to help save
>the dog from morons like yourself. they were in no way denying they
>were pits.
Yeah, riiiiiggght. Just like some shelters lie through their teeth and
call a PB x a 'Lab mix' because they *know* no one will want the former.
>>I *know* the difference between Bulldogs, Boxers, and PBs, okay?
>
>obviously you do not. there are different types of bulldogs. british,
>american, french. one looks like winston churchill
>(british--apparently the only bulldog you've ever heard of), another
>looks like a apbt to someone who doesn't have too much experience with
>apbts (american), the other looks like a pug (french). they are all
>different dogs. they are all bull dogs. the dog in question was an
>american bulldog and not a pit bull or amstaff.
Sorry, but I do know the difference - just didn't feel it necessary to
give a complete list of all the 'recognized' bull type breeds with a
complete description. Yes, I know what a French Bulldog is and looks
like; also Boston Bulls, Mastiffs, Bullmastiffs and the 'traditional'
'English' Bulldog (correctly called just a 'Bulldog') as well as Boxers.
Btw, a French Bulldog looks *nothing* like Pug, aside from having a
foreshortened muzzle and protruding eyes. Okay, and the tail. To me, they
still don't 'look alike' at all. Sorry to disappoint you, but I *do*
recognize these breeds.
>first you deny that there is such a breed (or imply it is another name
>for an apbt) and now you claim to be aware of its breeding history.
>you really are quite dense, misinformed, and ignorant.
>
>L.
The only PB-type breed that has *any* credibility is the AmStaff, and I
strongly suspect 'Joe/Jane Show Breeder' is going to do everything in
their power to keep thier championship dogs free of scars, out of fights,
etc. Their job is much easier if they breed for a good temperament.
Showing is an *expensive* business, and someone who has invested thousands
of dollars in vet fees, stud fees, handler fees, show fees, not to mention
their own travel expenses, has a very vested interest in producing stable
dogs. If you're that kind of breeder, the *last* place you want to see
one of 'your' dogs is on the evening news, being lead away by Animal
Control after it attacked someone!
The same cannot be said of those who breed PBs. For them, 'fighting
temperament', or 'gameness' as you like to euphemistically call it, is a
key element of the dogs disposition, without which it is considered a
substandard example of its breed. I've gotten a liberal 'education' on
this newsgroup from the PB supporters, and they *do* support breeding 'dog
aggressive' dogs. Take that out of the PB, and they'd lose interest.
fouralpha1
chr...@nospam.ix.netcom.com says...
>>
>AB's really don't look very much like APBTs or Am Staffs. They are
shorter
>muzzled with wider heads, and their builds are different. The actually
look
>more like white Boxer mixes.
Using only the dog in the news photo as an example - shown in profile - I
would agree it didn't look a *lot* like an AmStaff. Imo, it looked nothing
like a Boxer, and yes, I *have* worked with Boxers. It *did* look like
the majority of PBs in our shelters here, though.
>Did you know that the AKC doesn't recognize hundreds of breeds? Doesn't
make
>them any less of a purebred. Check my last reply for some examples.
>Open your eyes...
>
>Christy
>
As a matter of fact, I recently had the opportunity to take a look at some
of these 'purebred' dogs that aren't recognized by the AKC, on the
televised 'International Dog Show' from Mexico. A 'Chollo'? Please!
Looked like a big,(ugly!) hairless *mutt*. Most of the other non-AKC
breeds didn't look much better. What a joke!
fouralpha1
>
>But I've only been looking at the mag for 20 years, so that's all I've
>seen. :) And I'm sure lots of people do like them, I just prefer the
>retriever, spaniel, bc, northern, and hound types -- they are what I
>grew up with and mostly what I've had as an adult. Maybe I should have
>said they don't seem to have a lot to recommend them to ME as family
>dogs. I also tend to have mixed lots of all kinds around all living
>together in a lump, along with cats and birds, and in years past small
>livestock. Any type of dog that might be even remotely dog-aggressive
>just isn't on my list. Anyone else can have what ever they want [as long
>as it stays out of my yard if it's dog-aggressive]. We used to live next
>door to a Mal bitch who constantly tried to get to my bc, it wasn't
>amusing in the least.
>
PB owners. Meaning *no* offense to Karen, I'm simply using her post as an
example. Why should she, or anyone, have to sound so *apologetic* about
not wanting a PB or wanting them around her????! Geez..
Pony
on blocks that I am rebuilding, I like "Bar-b-que" and even have friends who
bring over their grill made from an old oil drum. I live out in the country,
and have even put up a load or two of hay in my time! I just want to make sure
you are against the dog fighting, not the whole "country life" thing. I may be
a hick, but I listen to rock and roll and have NEVER used the word (is it a
word?) "yee-haw" in my life... unless I was trying to be funny...
Jean H.
Rick wrote in message ...
>I am young in my own mind (30 actually). I do remember my child hood very
>well. Am I the only kid that would check for a dog on the other side of a
>fence before jumping? When I saw a dog on the other side it meant don't
>jump. Didn't matter what kind, I was much more concerned with size than
>breed. I was a little nervous about dogs when I was a kid, but I think I
>checked because I wasn't stupid.....
I'm 26 and when I grew up we were taught to respect other people property.
We never ever when into someone elses yard without asking them first. If
they weren't home, we had to get another ball until they came home.
>Research is knowledge, but it can only be done with an open mind. If you
>don't look at every option, you have assumed something. Once you have
>assumed something you are lacking knowledge.....
>
>Rick
>Owner of Buster (APBT) the dog that was bleeding yesterday from his
>brother-in-law's 21 week old female golden.
>
Very true Rick!
Jean H.
Jean H.
fouralpha1 wrote in message <7lnuhe$ftv$2...@e4.empirenet.com>...
>>As a matter of fact, I recently had the opportunity to take a look at some
>of these 'purebred' dogs that aren't recognized by the AKC, on the
>televised 'International Dog Show' from Mexico. A 'Chollo'? Please!
>Looked like a big,(ugly!) hairless *mutt*. Most of the other non-AKC
>breeds didn't look much better. What a joke!
Kate,
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!!! Just because you thougth they were
ugly doesn't mean the person sitting next to does. Just like people, dogs
come in all shapes, sizes and colors. If every dog looked the same it would
be a boring world! Not too mention that the breeds were bred to perform
certain jobs.
Jean H.
L.
wrote:
>In article <377ee028...@nntp.netcom.ca>, hu...@bsalientomato.com
>says...
>
>>who gives a rat's ass what the akc recognizes. there are plenty of
>>breeds it doesn't recognize. can you cut your own meat or do you
>>always get your daddy to do it?
>
>Apparently, a lot of people *do* give a rats ass.
what i meant, dearest, is that just because the akc doesn't recognize
the breed doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
>>that was st. francis terrier. and they never claimed they weren't
>>apbts or amstaffs. it was part of a promotional campaign to help save
>>the dog from morons like yourself. they were in no way denying they
>>were pits.
>
>Yeah, riiiiiggght. Just like some shelters lie through their teeth and
>call a PB x a 'Lab mix' because they *know* no one will want the former.
i read all the press releases that the san fransico rescue you're
referring to released on the topic. "pit bull" was used in EVERY
SINGLE ONE of them. are you going to deny that? and i'm curious as to
which shelters you're referring to when say they lie through their
teeth? how about some names? you got any? frankly, i doubt it.
>
>>>I *know* the difference between Bulldogs, Boxers, and PBs, okay?
>
>Sorry, but I do know the difference - just didn't feel it necessary to
>give a complete list of all the 'recognized' bull type breeds with a
>complete description.
no, you do not. if you knew the difference you wouldn't deny the
existence of the american bulldog or imply that it was another term
for an apbt.
>Btw, a French Bulldog looks *nothing* like Pug, aside from having a
>foreshortened muzzle and protruding eyes. Okay, and the tail.
um, okay. so they look nothing alike except for the tail and the head.
(you forgot size, too, sweetness). lol!
that's why whenever i see one and i say "hey, nice french bulldog" the
owner is always amazed and tells me everyone thinks it's a pug. hmm.
>To me, they
>still don't 'look alike' at all.
well to anyone who *knows* apbts, they can tell the difference between
one and an american bull dog without any problem.
>The only PB-type breed that has *any* credibility is the AmStaff,
if the akc didn't recognize it you wouldn't say that. once again,
you're letting someone else make up your mind for you.
>The same cannot be said of those who breed PBs. For them, 'fighting
>temperament', or 'gameness' as you like to euphemistically call it,
bullshit. find a single post i've ever made that has me using the word
game in this context. anywhere on the site i made?
(http://www.peopleforpitbulls.com/ ) nope.
>I've gotten a liberal 'education' on
>this newsgroup from the PB supporters, and they *do* support breeding 'dog
>aggressive' dogs.
recognizing that some pit bulls are dog aggressive does not mean they
support it.
>Take that out of the PB, and they'd lose interest.
utter crap. i'd be willing to wager dollars to dimes i know more pit
bulls and pit bull owners than you do and i don't know a SINGLE one
that *wants* a dog-aggressive dog. are you really that friggin
stupid? i mean, i find it really really difficult to believe that
there are people as stupid as you. you work in a shelter? your close
minded ignorance disgusts me.
L.
wrote:
>As a matter of fact, I recently had the opportunity to take a look at some
>of these 'purebred' dogs that aren't recognized by the AKC, on the
>televised 'International Dog Show' from Mexico. A 'Chollo'? Please!
>Looked like a big,(ugly!) hairless *mutt*. Most of the other non-AKC
>breeds didn't look much better. What a joke!
boy, i wonder how you'd fair if you had to get by on your looks alone.
i pray you're a very attractive person as i doubt you're doing very
well socially, what with your grating personality and the hatred
pouring out of your mouth.
care to post a photo so we can all point and say "what a joke!"?
Rick
are the low class stereo type you described. I am an APBT owner that would
love to gloat over how nice he has made his own personal life, out side of
any type of breed discussion. No cars in my yard, no tires either. Oil
dumb? don't remember seeing one. I do have a 5 gallon bucket that I
practice chipping golf balls into :-)
Have you ever gone to sites of owners of PB show dogs? Some owners look
like Wally Cleaver. Is it O.K. for those owners? How about black people?
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Oaks/2408/tiger.html
Have you ever seen Fred's dog Maddy? Have you ever read anything about the
breed? How about the FAQ? Are you so intelligent that you don't have to
read anything? I bet you are since you have already made you decision about
the dogs and their owners. I sure wish I was that smart, I unfortunately
had to do some research and reading before I chose a breed of dog..... You
should see what I am going through trying to find a good training method...
Bet you already know the best/only way to do it.
Tell me when you are ready to compare life styles and interests. If income
has anything to do with it I am really going to enjoy that. We may find out
you are the type of person that should own a Pit, and I should own a poodle.
By your standards breed decisions are very simple, we could actually make a
chart!
Rick
Can't wait to get a raise so I can trade up this ABPT for a AB!
fouralpha1 <wild...@nospam.empirenet.com> wrote in message
news:7lnr82$eal$1...@e4.empirenet.com...
> In article <BUIf3.6201$Mp5....@news.rdc1.pa.home.com>, marb...@home.com
> says...
> >
> >
> >>Are we gonna get a Kate vs Elaine
> >>flame war????? *That* would be
> >>worth the price of admission!
> >>
> >>JohnR
> >>Pit Bull Libertarian
> >
> >
> >ROFLMAO BITCH fight !!!!
> >This should be fun, yer right, John !
> >
> >MaryBeth
> >
Karen DC
breed is not a good family dog is an unwarranted overgeneralization.
Saying a specific breed does not suit my family's needs is acceptable
personal preference. And after all that, it wouldn't surprise me at all
to find myself rescuing one or more of my 'non-preferred' breeds at some
point in the future, and if I do so, I'll probably end up very happy
with it, just like nearly all the rest. In the meantime, I don't want a
shar pei, anything that drools like a leaky tap, a chihuaha, any of the
molosser types, anything that needs to be professionally groomed
regularly, and any number of other things based on my current family
situation, and I'm not going to apologize for that either.
MaryBeth
Pony wrote in message <377FABC0...@centuryinter.net>...
>I find this really insulting in an amusing sort of way.
Ahhhhh, don't take anything Kate sez seriously.
She could only dream about owning my home, in my community, with our
income. <BG> I don't have cars in my yard, I don't live in the same run down
neighborhood she has said she lives in, AND get this.........I don't even
own a PB. I have a golden, a black lab and a mix. All from the
shelters......a place that Kate can't go. <EG> She's just jealous. LOL
I only find it amusing that she thinks she can get me riled by her own
false accusations. But then again, everything is everyone else's fault, in
her mind.
MaryBeth
I also stated my ideas about dog fights. I am totally against them and
find them disgusting and abusive. (Oh gawd, now I'm gonna need the Witness
Relocation Program, as I'm sure to be sent TONS of hate mail for saying that
on the group, according to Kate, the scorned. <EG>
John F Richardson
:Why should she, or anyone, have to
:sound so *apologetic* about not
:wanting a PB or wanting them around
:her????!
We were talking about American
Bulldogs, Kate. Please try to keep
up with the discussion. (And by the
way, I don't own an American Bulldog,
nor do I expect ever to own one, as
I prefer smaller dogs. But I still
think they are a nice breed, and nobody
made me say so!)
JohnR
Pit Bull Libertarian
Pony
beautiful (though Chinese Cresteds are an exception to that, I think they are
stunning...) but I love them. To each their own. That was a mean comment to
make.
Christy
fouralpha1 <wild...@nospam.empirenet.com> wrote in message
> >more like white Boxer mixes.
>
> Using only the dog in the news photo as an example - shown in profile - I
> would agree it didn't look a *lot* like an AmStaff. Imo, it looked nothing
> like a Boxer, and yes, I *have* worked with Boxers. It *did* look like
> the majority of PBs in our shelters here, though.
I saw the picture, it looked very much like an AB to me. Then again, I'm
interested enough in dog breeds to familiarize myself with the differences
and not the similarities.
How many white Boxer mixes have you worked with? That is what I said they
look like. APBT and AmStaff (purebred, that is) tend to have longer, blocky
muzzles, while the AB has a shorter wider muzzle (not as short as the Boxer,
but shorter than an APBT.) From pictures I've seen, some lines have a build
more like an APBT than others. And I'm sure that the quick flash on TV of
the dead dog's head did look like some of the mixes in the shelters to
someone who has no interest in learning about varieties of dogs, other than
to ban 'em all.
> >
> As a matter of fact, I recently had the opportunity to take a look at some
> of these 'purebred' dogs that aren't recognized by the AKC, on the
> televised 'International Dog Show' from Mexico. A 'Chollo'? Please!
> Looked like a big,(ugly!) hairless *mutt*. Most of the other non-AKC
> breeds didn't look much better. What a joke!
>
Joke's on you, Hate. I guess when I said "open your eyes" I should have
said, "open your mind." The Xolo is one of the oldest known breeds, and is
revered in Mexican tradition. They are sweet and charming dogs, though they
are kind of odd to touch, but then again every dog isn't a fluffy Corgi. The
other dogs in that show were every bit as purebred and every bit as
commanding of respect as any AKC breed. What in the world could make you
think that the AKC is the be-all and end-all of dog breeds? Border Collies
have been recognized by the AKC for what, 5 years? You think no BC's existed
before then, and the dogs on my mom's farm in the 30's were aliens?? Please!
Purebred dogs in other countries are rare here and have no reason to lobby
for AKC status, but it doesn't make them any less purebred or any less
wonderful.
You are weird, Hate.
Christy
Lisa Baird
fouralpha1 wrote:
>
> As a matter of fact, I recently had the opportunity to take a look at some
> of these 'purebred' dogs that aren't recognized by the AKC, on the
> televised 'International Dog Show' from Mexico. A 'Chollo'? Please!
> Looked like a big,(ugly!) hairless *mutt*. Most of the other non-AKC
> breeds didn't look much better. What a joke!
Actually "chollos" (sic) were AKC, until interest in this country waned some
years ago. BTW, My breed was only recognized by AKC in the last 20 years, did
it not become a "breed" until then? JRTs, Cavaliers, Aussies, etc. weren't
breeds ten year ago?
Lisa
Nic
> I've seen the movie (too many times to count), and yes, that particular
> dog is very endearing. To the best of my knowledge though, 'American
> Bulldogs' are not accepted by the AKC as a recognized breed, so it pretty
> much comes down to 'if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it
> probably *is* a duck..' You can call them American Bulldogs, or St.
> Whatever Terriers (whatever that nonesense name some shelter came up with)
> but it doesn't change a)what the dog looks like, or b)what it was bred to
> do. I *know* the difference between Bulldogs, Boxers, and PBs, okay? I
> would never mistake one for the other, and find it amazing that anyone
> could. When it comes to PBs, Amstaffs and your 'American Bulldogs', who
> are we fooling though? They were all bred to do the same thing, and look
> very much alike, showing a common ancestry.
So since a Dogo Argentino looks like an APBT and isn't registered with the
AKC, it must be an APBT, right?
Nic
http://www.teleport.com/~pitbull - a Pit & a Pug
Remove pants to reply
Nic
> The only PB-type breed that has *any* credibility is the AmStaff, and I
> strongly suspect 'Joe/Jane Show Breeder' is going to do everything in
> their power to keep thier championship dogs free of scars, out of fights,
> etc. Their job is much easier if they breed for a good temperament.
> Showing is an *expensive* business, and someone who has invested thousands
> of dollars in vet fees, stud fees, handler fees, show fees, not to mention
> their own travel expenses, has a very vested interest in producing stable
> dogs. If you're that kind of breeder, the *last* place you want to see
> one of 'your' dogs is on the evening news, being lead away by Animal
> Control after it attacked someone!
>
> key element of the dogs disposition, without which it is considered a
> this newsgroup from the PB supporters, and they *do* support breeding 'dog
What about dogs like mine Kate? This week he goes to a dog show and he is an
American Pit Bull Terrier. Next week he goes to a show and magically becomes
an AmStaff. BTW, many AmStaffs (and all of the other terrier breeds) are dog
aggressive as well.
Nic
> As a matter of fact, I recently had the opportunity to take a look at some
> of these 'purebred' dogs that aren't recognized by the AKC, on the
> televised 'International Dog Show' from Mexico. A 'Chollo'? Please!
> Looked like a big,(ugly!) hairless *mutt*. Most of the other non-AKC
> breeds didn't look much better. What a joke!
The Xoloitzcuintli is one of the oldest breeds in the world. Far from being
a "hairless mutt." You really are an ignorant moron.
Nic
Christy <chr...@nospam.ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:7loeq1$g...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com...
>Border Collies have been recognized by the AKC for what, 5 years? You think
no BC's existed
> before then, and the dogs on my mom's farm in the 30's were aliens??
Yes, they were. That is how they win all of the herding, flyball, obedience,
and agility trials. The BC is here to enslave humanity and take over the
world.
Nic
John F Richardson <jfrc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990703190734...@ng-cb1.aol.com...
> Are we gonna get a Kate vs Elaine
> flame war????? *That* would be
> worth the price of admission!
>
> JohnR
> Pit Bull Libertarian
$20 on Elaine!!! LOL
Nic
MaryBeth <marb...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3rMf3.6232$Mp5....@news.rdc1.pa.home.com...
> I also stated my ideas about dog fights. I am totally against them and
> find them disgusting and abusive. (Oh gawd, now I'm gonna need the Witness
> Relocation Program, as I'm sure to be sent TONS of hate mail for saying
that
> on the group, according to Kate, the scorned. <EG>
Why, um, that must mean you HATE pitbulls!! Well, your mother wears combat
boots! :^)
MaryBeth
Nic wrote in message ...
>
>MaryBeth <marb...@home.com> wrote in message
>news:3rMf3.6232$Mp5....@news.rdc1.pa.home.com...
>> I also stated my ideas about dog fights. I am totally against them
and
>> find them disgusting and abusive. (Oh gawd, now I'm gonna need the
Witness
>> Relocation Program, as I'm sure to be sent TONS of hate mail for saying
>that
>> on the group, according to Kate, the scorned. <EG>
>
>
>Why, um, that must mean you HATE pitbulls!! Well, your mother wears combat
>boots! :^)
>
>Nic
Oh shoot, I *KNEW* this would happen. <groan>
Yeah well my dad can beat up yours !! Neener !!
MaryBeth
fouralpha1
jfrc...@aol.com says...
>
>We were talking about American
>Bulldogs, Kate. Please try to keep
>up with the discussion. (And by the
>way, I don't own an American Bulldog,
>nor do I expect ever to own one, as
>I prefer smaller dogs. But I still
>think they are a nice breed, and nobody
>made me say so!)
>
>
>JohnR
>Pit Bull Libertarian
Deception and diversion from the *real* issue, eh John? No matter. You
can *call* them whatever you want - PBs, 'American Bulldogs', or 'St.
Francis Terriers (*guffaw!!!*) - but it doesn't change what they are. Nor
does it change the fact that people here have to tippy toe around you PB
supporters out of fear of being flamed to death if they so much as breath
a word of criticism about these dogs or suggest they *aren't* welcome on
public streets, dog parks, or in most neighborhoods because PEOPLE ARE
SCARED TO F**KING DEATH OF THESE DOGS! Is that clear enough?
fouralpha1
>I'm 26 and when I grew up we were taught to respect other people
property.
>We never ever when into someone elses yard without asking them first. If
>they weren't home, we had to get another ball until they came home.
>
>Jean H.
>
Well, at least you haven't asserted, like some others, that the kids were
potential thieves and cutthroats. That's something anyway.
What you suggest as the 'correct' thing to do in a situation like that is
absolutely right - but since when do younger kids always do that? It may
be they didn't see the dog, or thought it was locked inside. I doubt,if
the dog had been just on the other side of the fence barking/growling they
would have tried to retrieve the ball.
Kids do dumb stuff. My friends and I did dumb stuff when we were that age
- and I believe these kids were 6 or 7, can't remember, but under 10.
Hell, when I was 7, me and my best friend Gabby Cabrera used to have 'fun'
by running through the pen of a pig their family owned, seeing if we could
get from one side to the other before she got you! Were our parents
irresponsible morons? Nope. This was back in the days when it was *safe*
for kids to go to their friends houses and hang around all day, so my
parents weren't worried. Gabby's parents were *very* strict, and he got
his butt tanned good after the pig got him one day and they found out what
we'd been doing. Kids do dumb stuff.
Lynn Kosmakos
fouralpha1 wrote:
>
> Imo, it looked nothing
> like a Boxer, and yes, I *have* worked with Boxers. It *did* look like
> the majority of PBs in our shelters here, though.
Geez - they really are not the same things at all. Very different
size and body structure. Take a look at the chest on an AB.
Oh, yeah, most ABs are not dog aggressive either. Talk about
being blinded by hatred.
>
> As a matter of fact, I recently had the opportunity to take a look at some
> of these 'purebred' dogs that aren't recognized by the AKC, on the
> televised 'International Dog Show' from Mexico. A 'Chollo'? Please!
> Looked like a big,(ugly!) hairless *mutt*. Most of the other non-AKC
> breeds didn't look much better. What a joke!
You do realize that many of the breed winners at the World show
were the same dogs that took their breeds at the AKC Westminister
show, don't you? And that Xolo, btw, was absolutely magnificient.
I'm beginning to think that you fear and hate anything you aren't
familiar with.
Lynn K.
Lynn Kosmakos
Rick wrote:
>
> Can we all agree that in this
> case, if the story were 2 kids jump some guys fence and are mauled by
> cocker the police wouldn't have ever shot the dog?
No, we cannot agree on that. Any dog attacking a child is going to
be shot if it can't be restrained/controlled. Breed simply doesn't
matter in this case, in any way other than the paranoid fantasies in
Kate's so-called mind.
Lynn K.
Becky
the age of what is considered to know better then they should of not been of
been outside unsupervised.the dog was contained inside a fence. the children
should of not gone into some one else's yard.........even more so if it is
your neighbor they should of known that the dog was or might be there.The
breed does not matter...........and if the dog could not be restrained or
controled while mauling a child/person then yes some thing drastic had to
happen. But I wonder didn't the police fear shooting the child if it was
still mauling the kid.I would like to see a news paper article on
this.......or even better the police report. It is unfortunate that this
happened to these kids but it seems to me that there is more to this story
than what we are seeing here. I, as a mother, would be going over a fence
myself if a dog was mauling my child. The law of the jungle is never come
between a lioness and her cub...........that dog would of met one mean mom
and maybe I may of gotten the worst end of the deal,but I would die trying
to save my kid.
Becky
fouralpha1 wrote in message <7lhltf$jgs$1...@e4.empirenet.com>...
>6/30/99 Hawthorne, CA/ Hawthorne Police responded to a 911 call when two
>young boys were attacked by a neighbors Pit Bull. According to the boys'
>mother, the boys had been playing ball and the ball went over the fence
>into the neighbor's yard. When they went in to retrieve it, the dog
>attacked them. 911 was called, and when police arrived they were
>forced to shoot the dog.
>
>Both boys were transported to the hospital; one was released today, and
>the other remains in the hospital from his injuries.
>
>The neighbor (on camera) complained that his dog was 'just doing its job'.
>
>My commentary: While it may be true the children were 'tresspassing',
>that is, at most, a misdemeanor, and hardly a 'crime' deserving a vicious
>mauling. It must also be kept in mind that children do incredibly stupid
>things on the spur of the moment (and I don't want to hear about their
>'irresponsible parents'. I was a kid once too, and know they can't watch
>you every second.) This dog owner maintained a vicious animal with no
>safeguards in place to prevent it from attacking people, and should suffer
>the same consequences as an individual who keeps an unfenced swimming pool
>in which a child drowns.
>
>
>
>
MaryBeth
Nor
>does it change the fact that people here have to tippy toe around you PB
>supporters out of fear of being flamed to death if they so much as breath
>a word of criticism about these dogs or suggest they *aren't* welcome on
>public streets, dog parks, or in most neighborhoods because PEOPLE ARE
>SCARED TO F**KING DEATH OF THESE DOGS! Is that clear enough?
>
Wait a minute 'Kate The Scorned', I thought you said we'd be flamed to
death just for posting against dog *fighting*. I did, and not one serious
post against me. So make up your mind. Oh that's right, its you again, the
one who makes things up as they go along, changing the 'facts' to suit them.
Nevermind.
It's *you* that's scared to death, not all of us. Speak for yourself.
MaryBeth
Lisa Baird
Becky wrote:
> i would like to know what the ages of the children were.if they were under
> the age of what is considered to know better then they should of not been of
> been outside unsupervised.the dog was contained inside a fence. the children
> should of not gone into some one else's yard.........even more so if it is
> your neighbor they should of known that the dog was or might be there.
That thought occurred to me as well. One has to assume the neighbor knew there
was a dog over there, and should have talked to the kids. Particularly of the
parents were as freaked by the "pit bull" idea as Kate.
And btw, I don't claim to be any kind of expert and *I* can easily tell the
difference between an AB and a Pit (or Am Staff). Now, I will say, I amy mistake
an AB for an uncropped Boxer though...
Lisa
L.
wrote:
>
>Deception and diversion from the *real* issue, eh John? No matter. You
>can *call* them whatever you want - PBs, 'American Bulldogs',
they're different dogs you idiot womanchild!
> PEOPLE ARE
>SCARED TO F**KING DEATH OF THESE DOGS! Is that clear enough?
that's weird. strangers walk up to my pit bull EVERY SINGLE DAY and
freak over how gorgeous he is, crouch down to eye level, and let him
lick their faces till they can't stand it anymore and burst out
laughing. scared to death? not bloody likely.
shelly
(fouralpha1) wrote:
>>Sprint2 wrote in message ...
>>>
>>>shelly <scouv...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
for the record, Darlene (Sprint2) wrote this, not me.
>>>AMEN!!!! If one of my kids ever even THOUGHT about entering
>>>someone else's yard without their permission they wouldn't sit
>>>down for a week. Obviously no one took the time to explain to
>>>kids that you just don't hop someone's fence because YOU threw
>>>the ball over their fence. You knock on the door. And if they're
>>>not home then you come back when they are!! My children have been
>>>taught this, why weren't these kids taught respect for other
>>>people and their property?
>
>My understanding is that the kids in question were quite young - below the
>legally defined 'age of reason' or whatever it's called when they're
>thought to be old/mature/wise/whatever enough to know what they're doing
>is wrong and understand the consequences.
if the kids were young enough not to know better then to
climb a fence and go into a strange yard, then they probably
*oughtn't* to have been playing unsupervised. it's sad that
it happened, but it really doesn't sound like the dog owner
was at fault in this case.
--shelly
Cyrus
SCARED TO F**KING DEATH OF THESE DOGS! Is that clear enough? >>
If You want I will send you a six hour tape of my Staffy and my pit
playing with kids in a park, a Yorkie at my in-laws, finishing numbers
1 &2 in their obedience class, and best of all tons of strangers that
come to pet and talk about the dogs. No one where I live at is
worried about the dogs.
Cyrus
Pony
care what threatened her, dog, man, or alien spaceship, NOTHING would get past
me!!! Children who aren't old enough to "know better" need supervision. This is
the REAL world we are talking about. Ever notice how in this world, the children
and animals pay for the ignorance of those who are supposed to protect them?
Becky wrote:
> i would like to know what the ages of the children were.if they were under
> the age of what is considered to know better then they should of not been of
> been outside unsupervised.the dog was contained inside a fence. the children
> should of not gone into some one else's yard.........even more so if it is
Pony
when it comes to posting on this newsgroup. After all, I am safe in the
comfort of my own home and the dogs and their masters are who knows where! So
what if I get flamed? It is all just a bunch of words on a computer screen!
As far as being afraid of the dogs and not wanting them on the streets...
again, speak for yourself, speak for the people you personally know, but
don't try to speak for all or most of us ("most neighborhoods") my neighbor
has a pit/mastiff cross. Biggest meanest looking dog I ever saw in my life.
He is allowed to roam most of the time which annoys the heck out of me, but
my little Jack Russell can chase him away. He is not dog aggressive, or human
aggressive. They just put up an invisible fence and he now stays in his own
yard, which makes me happy not because I was afraid of him, but because i got
tired of shoveling those HUGE droppings up out of my yard. This dog is as big
as my Shetland pony. My point is that you use gross over generalizations. I
don't tippy-toe around anyone, and from what I have seen, there are not many
people on this ng who EVER tippy-toe when they feel strongly about something.
That is why I like it here... :-)
fouralpha1 wrote
> Nor
> does it change the fact that people here have to tippy toe around you PB
> supporters out of fear of being flamed to death if they so much as breath
> a word of criticism about these dogs or suggest they *aren't* welcome on
> public streets, dog parks, or in most neighborhoods because PEOPLE ARE
John F Richardson
>We were talking about American
>Bulldogs, Kate. Please try to keep
>up with the discussion. (And by the
>way, I don't own an American Bulldog,
>nor do I expect ever to own one, as
>I prefer smaller dogs. But I still
>think they are a nice breed, and nobody
>made me say so!)
Kate replies:
:Deception and diversion from the *real*
:issue, eh John?
How can clarifying which breed is under
discussion be a deception or diversion?
:No matter.
Whatever.
:You can *call* them whatever you want -
:PBs, 'American Bulldogs', or 'St. Francis
:Terriers (*guffaw!!!*) -
The "St. Francis Terrier" thing was one
of those stupid things that well-intended
but not particularly clear thinking people
come up with now and then. But American
Bulldogs and American Pit Bull Terriers are
not the same breed, and the names can't
be used interchangeably.
:but it doesn't change what they are. Nor
:does it change the fact that people here
:have to tippy toe around you PB
:supporters out of fear of being flamed
:to death if they so much as breath
:a word of criticism about these dogs
:or suggest they *aren't* welcome on
:public streets, dog parks, or in most
:neighborhoods because PEOPLE ARE
:SCARED TO F**KING DEATH OF THESE
:DOGS!
Dog parks are a separate matter, if you
mean off-leash dog parks. But anyone
who says that they aren't welcome in their
neighborhood or on public streets will
indeed get the flame bath they deserve.
And if they are such wussy little losers
that they can't stand the heat of debate,
that's not my problem.
:Is that clear enough?
I've known what you're all about for quite
a while now, Kate.
JohnR
Pit Bull Libertarian
John F Richardson
:But I wonder didn't the police fear
:shooting the child if it was still
:mauling the kid.
Good question.
JohnR
Pit Bull Libertarian
Cyrus
I was out of town when the post about the Hawthorne police originally
came up. Since you have no biased against pit bulls can you fill me
in on what happened.
Cyrus
Denna Lasik
People were "scared to f***ing death" of my Rottweiler, Bolo, too.
Forget the fact that she would have viciously licked their ears off if
given the chance. If people are afraid of my dog, nobody is forcing
them to approach her. Since she was under my control at all times,
she certainly wasn't going to approach them unless they, and I, wanted
her to. If the very sight of her, heeling beside me as I walked her
(leashed) through the park, makes someone wet themselves, THEY are the
ones with the problem, and I'll be damned if I let my dog suffer for
their selfish ignorance.
On a marginally related note, my Mother just sold her house. She said
that despite the fact that Tricoe the Wonder Corgi was crated when
people came to see the house, one terrified family refused to enter
the house as long as the dog was there, crate or no crate. No
allergies, just fear. They wanted Mom to take Tricoe off of the
property until they were done looking. Some people expect others to go
to unreasonable lengths in order to accommodate their own ridiculous
fears.
Denna Lasik
On 5 Jul 1999 14:20:31 GMT, wild...@nospam.empirenet.com (fouralpha1)
wrote:
>
>Deception and diversion from the *real* issue, eh John? No matter. You
>can *call* them whatever you want - PBs, 'American Bulldogs', or 'St.
>Francis Terriers (*guffaw!!!*) - but it doesn't change what they are. Nor
>does it change the fact that people here have to tippy toe around you PB
>supporters out of fear of being flamed to death if they so much as breath
>a word of criticism about these dogs or suggest they *aren't* welcome on
>public streets, dog parks, or in most neighborhoods because PEOPLE ARE
>SCARED TO F**KING DEATH OF THESE DOGS! Is that clear enough?
"Intelligence is like a river; the deeper it runs, the less noise it makes."
"Insults, like violence, are the last resort of the incompetent"
Christy
boys climbed a fence into their neighbor's backyard to retrieve a ball - the
neighbor's dog, an American Bulldog, attacked the children, and was shot by
police. The children are recovering for the bite wounds. The owner of the
dog was upset that it was shot as it was only "doing its job."
Christy
<Cyrus Vy...@pathos.com> wrote in message
news:37823cba...@news.sunflower.com...
Jean H.
fouralpha1 wrote in message <7lqfit$r0d$3...@e4.empirenet.com>...
>potential thieves and cutthroats. That's something anyway.
>What you suggest as the 'correct' thing to do in a situation like that is
>absolutely right - but since when do younger kids always do that? It may
>be they didn't see the dog, or thought it was locked inside. I doubt,if
>the dog had been just on the other side of the fence barking/growling they
>would have tried to retrieve the ball.
>
>Kids do dumb stuff. My friends and I did dumb stuff when we were that age
>- and I believe these kids were 6 or 7, can't remember, but under 10.
>Hell, when I was 7, me and my best friend Gabby Cabrera used to have 'fun'
>by running through the pen of a pig their family owned, seeing if we could
>get from one side to the other before she got you! Were our parents
>irresponsible morons? Nope. This was back in the days when it was *safe*
>for kids to go to their friends houses and hang around all day, so my
>parents weren't worried. Gabby's parents were *very* strict, and he got
>his butt tanned good after the pig got him one day and they found out what
>we'd been doing. Kids do dumb stuff.
>
>
Kate,
I believe that just because some kids are thieves doesn't mean all kids are
thieves. I've met some very nice kids that you would think would rip you
off in a heartbeat, and I've met some kids that look like the 'All American,
kid next door' that would cuss you out as quick as look at you. Now if the
kids were messing with the back door, then that's another story. One of the
many things I've learned is that you can't judge a book by its cover. The
same goes for dogs, ALL dogs. You can't judge a breed by a few bad seeds.
And 95% of the time the bad dogs are with those rotten kids or adults. or
it will be some other cause for the aggressive behavior, protecting a yard,
a kid tormenting the dog, a tumor or some other health related problem. If
you take the time to look at the situation with an open mind then you might
find something new. You also have to have all of the facts before you
judge, you can react to a situation and then find out that it is what it
seems. Like if I told you that my cocker spaniel bit me when I was 9 and
put 4 stiches in my lip, it sounds bad. What is your first reaction? What
if I told you the rest of the story, that I was holding her with my head
close to her face, she actually turned toward me, as I turned and we
collided. Her tooth hit my lip and split it open. That doesn't sound so
bad does it?
And yes kids do dumb stuff. I've done some stupid stuff in my life also.
Did you ever think that maybe the kids were playing a game of chance with
the dog, the same as you did with the pig? But now a days its the dog that
was shot and killed. Did your friends father shoot the pig? No he tanned
his butt good. And yes kids will always do dumb stuff and will sometimes
get hurt doing it. Its just a shame that this dog had to pay for the dumb
actions of those kids.
Sorry this was so long.
Jean H.
Jean H.
fouralpha1 wrote in message <7lqevf$r0d$2...@e4.empirenet.com>...
>>Bulldogs, Kate. Please try to keep
>>up with the discussion. (And by the
>>way, I don't own an American Bulldog,
>>nor do I expect ever to own one, as
>>I prefer smaller dogs. But I still
>>think they are a nice breed, and nobody
>>made me say so!)
>>
>>
>>Pit Bull Libertarian
>
>Deception and diversion from the *real* issue, eh John? No matter. You
>can *call* them whatever you want - PBs, 'American Bulldogs', or 'St.
>Francis Terriers (*guffaw!!!*) - but it doesn't change what they are. Nor
>does it change the fact that people here have to tippy toe around you PB
>supporters out of fear of being flamed to death if they so much as breath
>a word of criticism about these dogs or suggest they *aren't* welcome on
>public streets, dog parks, or in most neighborhoods because PEOPLE ARE
>SCARED TO F**KING DEATH OF THESE DOGS! Is that clear enough?
Yes it does matter what you call them. Try telling an owner of a norwich
terrier that their dog is a Norfolk or australian terrier and vice versa.
See if they don't jump on you.
Why shouldn't the nice dogs be allowed on the street. My dog is no danger
to yours unless you are breaking the law and letting your dog run loose.
What you are saying is that all the responsible owners should pay for the
irresponsible ones. There are plenty of other breeds that are dog
aggressive also and if with an irresponsible person they pose the same
danger as a Pitbull. And not everyone is afraid of these dogs!!
Jean H.
Lynn Kosmakos
fouralpha1 wrote:
> can *call* them whatever you want - PBs, 'American Bulldogs', or 'St.
> Francis Terriers (*guffaw!!!*) - but it doesn't change what they are. Nor
> does it change the fact that people here have to tippy toe around you PB
> supporters out of fear of being flamed to death if they so much as breath
> a word of criticism about these dogs or suggest they *aren't* welcome on
> public streets, dog parks, or in most neighborhoods because PEOPLE ARE
> SCARED TO F**KING DEATH OF THESE DOGS! Is that clear enough?
Clear, but totally inaccurate and more than a little sick. Calling
an AB an APBT doesn't make it one, no matter how many times you
say it. What part of "very different breeds" do you not understand?
What I don't understand is why you would want to increase the scope
of your fears by adding another breed. Isn't life anxious enough
for you already? Or why you want to project your fears on the whole
population. Just because you are afraid of something doesn't mean
everyone is, or should be.
Lynn K.
fouralpha1
says...
>
>
>>
>>> PEOPLE ARE
>>>SCARED TO F**KING DEATH OF THESE DOGS! Is that clear enough?
I'll tell ya what: we'll visit the local shopping mall on a busy day when
there are plenty of folks around, and ask the first 50 people at random
what they think of PBs. I'd bet a month's salary 90% of them would
express fear or dislike or both. Face it - 'normal' people don't like
PBs, and we outnumber you:) (We also *vote*;)
>No dear, YOU are afraid and feel better by thinking everyone else does
>too.
>Nat
fouralpha1
>
>Yes it does matter what you call them. Try telling an owner of a norwich
>terrier that their dog is a Norfolk or australian terrier and vice versa.
>See if they don't jump on you.
Apples and Oranges. You're talking about two very old AKC recognized
breeds here. I'm talking about two non-recognized, fabricated 'breeds'.
>
>Why shouldn't the nice dogs be allowed on the street. My dog is no
danger
>to yours unless you are breaking the law and letting your dog run loose.
And why is that? Because you're going to 'sic' your killer dog on any dog
you see roaming free? Figures.
>What you are saying is that all the responsible owners should pay for the
>irresponsible ones. There are plenty of other breeds that are dog
>aggressive also and if with an irresponsible person they pose the same
>danger as a Pitbull. And not everyone is afraid of these dogs!!
>
>Jean H.
>
Yup, there are plenty of other aggresive breeds, and I deal warily with
them as well. Perhaps I should say 'cautiously'. If even the no-kill
shelters refuse to take in certain breeds - Shar Peis, Chows, etc. - that
gives me a 'clue', y'know?
Sure, not 'everyone' is afraid of PBs. Not everyone thinks drinking and
driving is uncool either. Some people think sex with kids should be legal.
Fortunately, they are in the minority. As are 'PB lovers'.
fouralpha1
bec...@prodigy.net says...
>
>i would like to know what the ages of the children were.if they were
under
>the age of what is considered to know better then they should of not been
of
>been outside unsupervised.
Oh bullshit. A 7 or 8 year old shouldn't be outside unsupersized in their
own backyard? That's a lot of crap. I know things are bad, but they
aren't *that* bad.
I, as a mother, would be going over a fence
>myself if a dog was mauling my child. The law of the jungle is never come
>between a lioness and her cub...........that dog would of met one mean
mom
>and maybe I may of gotten the worst end of the deal,but I would die
trying
>to save my kid.
>Becky
For that I applaud and respect you. However, you might want to reconsider
the analogy, because lionesses are chickenshit mothers that *won't* defend
their cubs from a male lion. You are more like a mother grizzly bear:) Now
*there's* a real mother! Unlike the cowardly lioness, a mother grizzly
will indeed fight to death against a male bear intent on harming her cubs.
(This science lesson courtesy of the Discovery channel;)
fouralpha1
>if the kids were young enough not to know better then to
>climb a fence and go into a strange yard, then they probably
>*oughtn't* to have been playing unsupervised. it's sad that
>it happened, but it really doesn't sound like the dog owner
>was at fault in this case.
>
>--shelly
If the dog owner was so worried about people breaking in that he needed a
vicious dog, why did he have such a crappy fence that a couple of *young*
kids could climb over it?? Sounds to me like someone who took the 'easy'
way, and just tossed a PB in the backyard for 'protection'. That's a
little like buying a gun and sticking it on the nightstand without ever
learning how to use it.
Pony
will pet it and fawn over it like any other dog until you tell them it is a
PB... What am I doing here? Why am i posting to this thread? I don't care for
pit bulls because I don't like the look of the dog, I like Chinese Cresteds
and Scottish Deerhounds!!!! But this stereotyping and gross over
generalization just ticks me right off! This is like doggie racism. Besides,
what do you consider "normal"? I vote as well, and pay taxes, I work, I am
respected by my friends and family and neighbors as a good citizen. Ugh! This
isn't my fight and I think I better stop following the progress of this
thread, because it makes me wonder if there is a doggie version of the KKK
planning anti-PB demonstrations or something. How a rational human being can
claim to speak for 90% of the "normal" population is beyond me. As if 90% of
the population has ever agreed on anything!!!!
Pony
doesn't matter what age they are, they should be supervised. And things
*aren't* that bad? Ever watch the news? I'm less worried about the neighbors
dogs and more worried about perverts and sicko's... do you have kids?
Tess3
>>>> PEOPLE ARE
>>>>SCARED TO F**KING DEATH OF THESE DOGS! Is that clear enough?
>
>I'll tell ya what: we'll visit the local shopping mall on a busy day when
>there are plenty of folks around, and ask the first 50 people at random
>what they think of PBs. I'd bet a month's salary 90% of them would
>express fear or dislike or both. Face it - 'normal' people don't like
>PBs, and we outnumber you:) (We also *vote*;)
Normal people? A euphemism for ignorant people? I bet many, many
people would fear or dislike my GSD, and my neighbour's Rottweiler as
well. My aunty is scared to death of any big dog, and there are lots
of people like her. Are they justified in being scared just because
they believe that? WHy don't you go to a shopping centre, and ask the
first 50 people if they'd trust a German Shepherd over a collie. I bet
they wouldn't, yet in my country, Collie's have a higher bite rate. I
bet YOU that the image of Lassie is the leading cause of their
opinions, just like the distorted image of pit bulls is the leading
cause of any fear they may have.
"We outnumber you"? And just what am I? I have never owned a pit bull,
nor am I active in their defense. I just know that I have met a few of
them and they're very sweet. Just as I have a sweet GSD, but have met
a few vicious ones. Point is, the temperaments of dogs vary within
each breed.
Sure, maybe a number of people would be scared of pit bulls. SO? Fears
can be unfounded and irrational.
Nat
L.
wrote:
>How a rational human being can
>claim to speak for 90% of the "normal" population is beyond me. As if 90% of
>the population has ever agreed on anything!!!!
who ever said kate was a rational human being? she's about the
furthest thing from it, in my opinion.
L.
wrote:
>I'll tell ya what: we'll visit the local shopping mall on a busy day when
>there are plenty of folks around, and ask the first 50 people at random
>what they think of PBs. I'd bet a month's salary 90% of them would
>express fear or dislike or both. Face it - 'normal' people don't like
>PBs, and we outnumber you:) (We also *vote*;)
i'd wager that 100% of that 90% has never actually been around a pit
bull and are basing it on lies advanced by sensational media and
simpletons such as youself. i'd bet that 100% of them would crouch
down and kiss my pit bull. i see it happen every single day. the
exception would be people who are afraid of *all* dogs, meaning, i've
yet to meet a single dog-friendly person that did not like my pit
bull. not a one.
and you vote? what the hell is that supposed to mean? my dog is not
running for office. :)
last year in toronto, govt planned to ban pit bulls. people for pit
bulls (http://www.peopleforpitbulls.com/ ) organized a "dangerous dog
walk" where close to 100 dog owners with pit bulls, rotts, dobies, and
other "dangerous breeds" went for a walk through the downtown streets
of a major metropolitan city (we don't all live in trailer parks,
kate). the affair got much press and, of course, not a *single*
problem was encountered. now why do you think that was, kate?
according to you, all pit bulls are dog-aggressive. yet not a single
incident. thankfully, there were other dog owners there with
"non-dangerous" breeds like chihuahuas, poodles, collies (highest bite
incidence in toronto last i heard), supporting us. so not all of the
non-apbt owners are as ignorant and close minded as you.
L.
wrote:
>If the dog owner was so worried about people breaking in that he needed a
>vicious dog, why did he have such a crappy fence that a couple of *young*
>kids could climb over it?? Sounds to me like someone who took the 'easy'
>way, and just tossed a PB in the backyard for 'protection'. That's a
>little like buying a gun and sticking it on the nightstand without ever
>learning how to use it.
kate, though i don't think that you have a sincere bone in your body,
try and answer this question honestly:
If the killer dog in this case was a Collie (and not an american
bulldog, which is what it was), would you be calling for a ban of
Collies? would you think the dog was doing anything that it wasn't
trained to do?
L.
wrote:
>Oh bullshit. A 7 or 8 year old shouldn't be outside unsupersized in their
>own backyard? That's a lot of crap. I know things are bad, but they
>aren't *that* bad.
the problem was that they *weren't* in their own backyard, correct?
John F Richardson
:Apples and Oranges. You're talking
:about two very old AKC recognized
:breeds here. I'm talking about two
:non-recognized, fabricated 'breeds'.
No you aren't. APBTs have been
recognized since the 1890s and
the dogs from back then were the
ancestors not only of today's APBTs,
but of today's AmStaffs. (I'm not sure
when American Bulldogs were first
registered.)
JohnR
Pit Bull Libertarian
John F Richardson
:Sounds to me like someone who took
:the 'easy' way, and just tossed a PB
:in the backyard for 'protection'.
Except to note again that the dog in
question was not a PB, I tend to agree
with this. There are a zillion better ways
to protect oneself and one's property
than by keeping a "big, tough" dog around.
(Carefully trained protection dogs are
another matter.) It's downright TYPICAL
for such dogs to end up biting, or even
mauling, a family member, a friend, a
relative, a neighbor, a delivery person
or even some not-truly-threatening
trespasser or trespassers, as in this
case, long before any real criminal is
confronted, let alone valiantly thwarted.
That's one of two very good reasons why
everyone I know of in APBT rescue consider
anyone's desire to keep one as a "guard
dog" an automatic, immediate disqualification.
(The other is that the breed really should
NOT be particularly "protective" and any
dog that shows a lot of "promise" as a
"fierce protector of family and home" is
slated for death row.)
JohnR
Pit Bull Libertarian
MaryBeth
fouralpha1 wrote in message <7luo6c$hc9$2...@e4.empirenet.com>...
>Apples and Oranges. You're talking about two very old AKC recognized
>breeds here. I'm talking about two non-recognized, fabricated 'breeds'.
If they are so 'fabricated' then wth are you afraid of ?? You make no
sense, but then again, we are dealing with *you*.
>Sure, not 'everyone' is afraid of PBs. Not everyone thinks drinking and
>driving is uncool either. Some people think sex with kids should be legal.
>Fortunately, they are in the minority. As are 'PB lovers'.
Whoooo boy !! You are a loony !! You equate drinking and driving and
being a pedophile with owning a pitbull ???????????????????????????? Oh yeah
they are very similar........yeah rrriiiiiiigggggttttt. You really have no
idea how to construct ANY kind of debate or concept that would be a VALID
argument, do you ?
Hehehehe I'll bet all the anti PB ppl just LOVE having *you* as their
spokesperson....... ROFLMAO
MaryBeth <shaking head and wondering how the heck ppl like Kate the Scorned
can call others 'backwards', hehehehehe, gawd you slay me, Kate. <BG> >
Pony
logic to think clearly... :-)
Lisa Baird
fouralpha1 wrote:
> I'll tell ya what: we'll visit the local shopping mall on a busy day when
> there are plenty of folks around, and ask the first 50 people at random
> what they think of PBs. I'd bet a month's salary 90% of them would
> express fear or dislike or both. Face it - 'normal' people don't like
> PBs, and we outnumber you:) (We also *vote*;)
"Normal" people act like that around my friend's Dobes, Rottweilers, Boxers,
and many other breeds. So?
Lisa
Elizabeth Naime
> If the killer dog in this case was a Collie (and not an american
> bulldog, which is what it was), would you be calling for a ban of
> Collies? would you think the dog was doing anything that it wasn't
> trained to do?
I'm not Kate, but I'll take a stab at it. So you're calling PBs Collies
now are you?? Well it doesn't change a thing! WE know that PBs are
vicious killers with long hair and semi-prick ears and deadly elongated
jaws! Sure looks like a Pitbull to me!!
How'd I do?
Cyrus
wrote:
>I'll tell ya what: we'll visit the local shopping mall on a busy day when
>there are plenty of folks around, and ask the first 50 people at random
>what they think of PBs. I'd bet a month's salary 90% of them would
>express fear or dislike or both. Face it - 'normal' people don't like
>PBs, and we outnumber you:) (We also *vote*;)
>
I'm a college professor, I pay taxes and vote. Do I count as normal?
Cyrus
wrote:
>Oh bullshit. A 7 or 8 year old shouldn't be outside unsupersized in their
>own backyard? That's a lot of crap. I know things are bad, but they
>aren't *that* bad.
>
You apparently don't know shit. My neighbors while supervised will
try to climb my 5' fence just to tease my dogs. The Staffy will growl
and bark and the kids never heed (the kids are 3 & 5). Their mother
calls them back by yelling for the whole neighborhood to hear, "Stay
off the fucking fence", never leave the dogs alone or stay in your own
yard. Its pretty bad when a 23 yr. old mother is yelling that kind of
shit to 3 & 5 yr. old, I wasn't raised that way but apparently you
were Kate.
Cyrus
Cyrus
wrote:
>I'll tell ya what: we'll visit the local shopping mall on a busy day when
>there are plenty of folks around, and ask the first 50 people at random
>what they think of PBs. I'd bet a month's salary 90% of them would
>express fear or dislike or both. Face it - 'normal' people don't like
>PBs, and we outnumber you:) (We also *vote*;)
Oh Kate,
I forgot to mention I own a pit and a Staffy bull, I walk them
through campus everyday and not a day goes by some one doesn't stop to
fawn over them. Guess what, they're mostly women.
Cyrus
L.
Naime) wrote:
pretty poorly. i was asking a hypothetical question, moron.
John F Richardson
> I'll tell ya what: we'll visit the local
> shopping mall on a busy day when
> there are plenty of folks around,
> and ask the first 50 people at random
> what they think of PBs. I'd bet a
> month's salary 90% of them would
> express fear or dislike or both.
Some my wife's marketing students
already did this for a series of papers
that my wife and I are writing, one of
which will be presented at the Atlantic Marketing Association/Social Marketing
Track in Annapolis, MD at end of September/beginning of October of this
year. (I can email a copy of this paper to anyone who would like to see it.
Others
are still in the pipeline.) Anyway, Kate's
way wrong. Relatively few people have
strongly negative views at this point,
and quite a few have moderately to
strongly positive views.
JohnR
Pit Bull Libertarian
John F Richardson
> If the killer dog in this case was a
> Collie (and not an american bulldog,
> which is what it was), would you be
> calling for a ban of Collies? would you
> think the dog was doing anything that
> it wasn't trained to do?
Elizabeth Naime replies:
:I'm not Kate, but I'll take a stab at it.
:So you're calling PBs Collies now are
:you?? Well it doesn't change a thing!
:WE know that PBs are vicious killers
:with long hair and semi-prick ears and
:deadly elongated jaws! Sure looks like
:a Pitbull to me!!
:How'd I do?
Excellent! Elizabeth Naime, you are
the new "Kate for a Day"!
JohnR
Pit Bull Libertarian
Nancy
the sequel. Beautiful dog.
*Nancy*
Elizabeth Naime
...And I gave a hypothetical answer. Kate's answer to the real question
-- if an American Bulldog attacked a child, would you call for a ban on
American Bulldogs -- got the real answer that she'd ban "PBs" even if
they were called American Bulldogs.
> moron.
Really? Well at least I can tell an American Bulldog from an American Pit
Bull Terrier, which is only a little easier than telling a Collie from an
American Pit Bull Terrier. Can YOU tell a hawk from a handsaw, or even a
heronshaw?
L.
wrote:
>Some my wife's marketing students
>already did this for a series of papers
>that my wife and I are writing, one of
>which will be presented at the Atlantic Marketing Association/Social Marketing
>Track in Annapolis, MD at end of September/beginning of October of this
>year. (I can email a copy of this paper to anyone who would like to see it.
>Others
>are still in the pipeline.)
John, i would definitely be interested. also, a while ago you and i
talked about you and one of your co-workers writing a shelter faq for
people for pit bulls. any news on this?
thanks,
Nancy
Sorry, there is no such thing as a Boston Bull dog. They are Boston
Terriers.
*Nancy*