Has anyone seen this?

Robin

unread,

Jul 18, 2005, 7:22:04 PM7/18/05

to

Yes, now you can auction off the family dog to the highest
internet bidder.

http://www.anibid.com/

Robin
http://community.webshots.com/user/robinandtami

Michael A. Ball

unread,

Jul 19, 2005, 12:13:17 AM7/19/05

to

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 23:22:04 GMT, "Robin" <robina...@nospam.com>
wrote:

>Yes, now you can auction off the family dog to the highest
>internet bidder.
>
>http://www.anibid.com/

"Page cannot be displayed" message. Thank God.

When I die, I want to go where dogs go!

Jinxy

unread,

Jul 19, 2005, 12:49:13 AM7/19/05

to

"Michael A. Ball" <Guar...@wireco.net> wrote in message
news:ccvod19v479dh372c...@4ax.com...

I just went there..looks like it works. They have most every breed there.
Terrible!

White Monkey

unread,

Jul 19, 2005, 2:40:16 AM7/19/05

to

>>>Yes, now you can auction off the family dog to the highest
>>>internet bidder.
>>>
>>>http://www.anibid.com/
>>
>> "Page cannot be displayed" message. Thank God.
>>
>>
>> When I die, I want to go where dogs go!
>
> I just went there..looks like it works. They have most every breed there.
> Terrible!

I agree. And breeds, heck--they've got SPECIES! I was just reading the entry
for the poor little two-month-old Patas Monkey that "has been raised just
like a human baby" and has undergone "behavioral modification training" so
she doesn't get into stuff. Thank goodness there are no bids on her so far!
--Katrina

Michael A. Ball

unread,

Jul 19, 2005, 6:11:25 AM7/19/05

to

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 22:49:13 -0600, "Jinxy" <ji...@look.ca> wrote:

>I just went there..looks like it works. They have most every breed there.
>Terrible!
>

It opened for me this morning. What a sickening web site.

Whatever it takes.

Buckley's Mixture

unread,

Jul 19, 2005, 8:23:27 PM7/19/05

to

Yes and yesterday almost every dog or pet related newsgroup on Yahoo and Msn
were asked to write to these people telling them that they would never buy
or support anything off their website.
please do the same. let them know how you feel.
Cheers

Mr. Metaxa

unread,

Jul 19, 2005, 8:57:07 PM7/19/05

to

"Buckley's Mixture" <waterbasin@go_REMOVETHIS_.com> wrote in
news:11218192...@www.vif.com:

These people really need to re-think their site:

E-Mail Contacts: Sales: sa...@anibid.com
Advertising: adver...@anibid.com
Support: sup...@anibid.com

dejablues

unread,

Jul 20, 2005, 9:00:45 PM7/20/05

to

"Robin" <robina...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:wQWCe.164913$_o.17376@attbi_s71...

> Yes, now you can auction off the family dog to the highest
> internet bidder.
>
> http://www.anibid.com/
>

This entry under their FAQ page says it all:

-I am an outraged activist. Who can I contact?

"This web site does not adhere to the opinions of activist groups. If you
feel you must contact us, make sure that your
question/issue/beef/whine/gripe/complaint has not already been addressed
previously. Likewise, make sure the ludcrious statements you plan to make
are based on factual data and not some neo nazi fascist propaganda. (We know
you can't read so be prepared to get harped on for it)". -

Assholes.

Anyway, here's the info from the hosting site:

AniBid, Inc. PO Box 90000 Key West, FL 33040 US Phone:
305-304-4982 Domain Name: ANIBID.COM Administrative Contact ,
Technical Contact : Watkins, Ray r...@anibid.com PO Box 90000
Key West, FL 33040 US Phone: 866-629-1669 Record expires on
20-Jan-2006 Record created on 20-Jan-2005 Database last updated on
20-Jan-2005

WillyNille

unread,

Jul 21, 2005, 10:17:54 AM7/21/05

to

As I very well suspected, Anibid removed my "Anti-Auction", message. I guess
it hit home.
I'm only sorry that more breeders didn't find any time to express their
opinions there.

Anibid actually has a section on this forum that "Mocks" the animal
activists... all the more reason that polite messages are important... and
even worst, there was an animal rescue org that was auctioning off their
rescues!!!!!

I will be reposting my message on their forum sometime today.
If you feel able to post any sentiments alongside mine you will have to
create an account at:
http://www.anibid.com/vb/forums/register.php?

then of course, you'll have access to the forum.

Yesterday I wrote to several of the dog sellers asking them WHO their dogs
were registered with and I asked for a copy of the registration papers. To
date I have not received any replies.

Cheers

HERE IS A COPY OF MY ORIGINAL POST ON THEIR FORUM
====================================

Sorry Anibid folks.
I take no pride in being here.

I am appalled that this website, (which could be most useful), has chosen to
allow the auctioning of live animals.

May you know it or not, you are only helping to contribute to the puppy
mills, cat mills, ferret mills... anykind of mills. What can we expect next?
The auctioning of bear's gall bladders?

The owners of this site should have spent the same amount of time doing
ethical research as they clearly spent doing their "financial gain
research". If they did, they might understand the horrors of what they are
promoting. Thank God Ebay did! Maybe you could learn something from them.

There is NO recognized or reputable animal breeder who will participate in
your venue.

The so called "breeders", who DO or WILL participate here are more than
likely : junk dealers, back yard breeders and the less savory type of animal
broker, Ma and Pa Kettle's who know little or nothing about animal breeding,
and other reckless profiteers (like yourselves).

Ultimately many of these sold animals will end up in shelters as their
quality is sub-standard, does not meet the standards of the breed, and
ultimately the pet will not meet the expectations of the buyer.

There are purebred animal shelters all over North America spanning every
breed of dog, cat, horse, pig and more. It is THEY who will be the final
recipients of these pets. Not sure? Think I'm story telling? Jjust ask any
one of them or spend a day at any one of the to see exactly what happens to
the "junk" pets you are trying to promote.

I hope a law exsists out there somewhere that will let you see the light.
I will not spend one penny, nickel or dime to support this site.

Shame on all of you! I know I'm not alone in my feelings either.
It won't surprise me or any of the readers here if this message is removed
either.

MM

PS:
BUYER BEWARE - If the seller claims that the animal is registered, ask for a
copy of the registration papers. Any reputable seller will disclose this
information. Call the organization that registered the dog, cat horse,
originally (AKC-American Kennel Club, CKC: Canadian Kennel Club, AQHA,
American Quarter Horse Assoc,), and let them know that you are considering
buying one of THEIR registered animals via an auction. You may be surprised
to hear that you won't be able to transfer the registration of the animal
after your purchase!!!! That should tell you all you need to know about the
Seller and This Website !
=============Message Removed from Anibid the Bulletin Board=============

TO...@dog-play.com

unread,

Jul 21, 2005, 12:28:36 PM7/21/05

to

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:17:54 -0400 WillyNille <Willy...@removethisyahoo.com> whittled these words:

> Ultimately many of these sold animals will end up in shelters as their
> quality is sub-standard, does not meet the standards of the breed, and
> ultimately the pet will not meet the expectations of the buyer

This sells shelter animals pretty short. THe promotion of shelter animals
as substandard and unworthy causes so many people to bypass perfectly
wonderful shelter animals. It causes people to evaluate "quality" as if
cost and pedigree are its measure.

By that measure there are, unfortunately, animals of very high "quality"
that end up in shelters. The problem with dogs in the shelter is simply
that they are IN the shelter, and that there are too many of them.

The difference between breeders whose dogs end up in shelters and those
who don't has more to do with initial placement and buyer support than the
"quality" of the dogs. That is why the qualities of the responsible
breeder must include more than winning shows and some health testing.
Neither of those actions protect the dog from shelter dumping.

And while I'm a strong proponent of breeding for good health, appropriate
temperament, and preditcable characteristics these factors merely
influence the risks. There are perfectly heathly excellent pets in
shelters, and there are carefully bred dogs who nevertheless have poor
temperament, or lousy genetic health.

The problem with the animals in shelters is not that they are
"sub-standard" but that they are there at all. If you want to appeal to
the thinking of unfair shifting of costs, the problem with the shelters is
that breeders take the profit but not the responsiblity for the existence
of their "product."

> There are purebred animal shelters all over North America spanning every
> breed of dog, cat, horse, pig and more. It is THEY who will be the final
> recipients of these pets. Not sure? Think I'm story telling? Jjust ask any
> one of them or spend a day at any one of the to see exactly what happens to
> the "junk" pets you are trying to promote.

The problem with the method of sale is not that the animals are "junk" but
that it tends to result in the animal being sold in a way with a high risk
of failure. Without the pre-screening of a responsible breeder
there is little opportunity to educate buyers out of unwise choices. Most
of these buyers don't know what they don't know. They won't learn it from
such sales.

Without the continuing support of the responsible breeder there is a
higher risk of failure. The respobsible breeder provides knowledgable
information and resources to the buyer. Otherwise the buyer, again,
doesn't know what they don't know and is left floundering or relying on
other's sincere but misguided information.

The cost is not only the life of the animal, but the emotions
of the people. Getting the wrong pet and then dumping it often has
profound adverse effects on children. It can shatter them, or make them
emotonally hard, neither of which is good for society.

> I hope a law exsists out there somewhere that will let you see the light.

The existence or non-existence of law is not a very good way of evaluating
the rightness or wrongness of an action. I prefer education to law
making.

> I will not spend one penny, nickel or dime to support this site.

> Shame on all of you! I know I'm not alone in my feelings either.
> It won't surprise me or any of the readers here if this message is removed
> either.

When presenting argument it is always useful to pay attention to the
beliefs and concerns of those to whom you are arguing. If they regard
companion animals as merely livestock then the emotional plug is hardly
going to be persuasive.

I so often see people arguing that the dog is "sub-standard" merely
because it fails to meet breed standard. In most cases this is offered
in circumstances where that quality is simply unimportant to the person
looking for a companion animal. I'm a believer that predictable
characteristics is a good thing to improve success in companion animal
adoptions. But I suggest that for most people the important predictable
characteristics are somewhat broader. They want good temperament, good
health, the expected coat and size. They want the behavior to resemble
breed descriptions and they want the appearance to resemble breed
descriptions. They, for the most part, will never notice variations that
would get the dog laughed out of the conformation ring.

The point is that when you argue "well bred" to the person looking for a
pet, or looking to market pets, these are the concerns to keep in mind.
It doesn't hurt, once you have addressed those concerns, to point out that
to keep those "acceptable" qualities it is neccessary for the breeder to
hold to somewhat higher standards. The idea being is that if you breed
for better than the buyer needs and you don't quite make the mark you are
likely to end up with good enough. But if you only breed for good enough
and you don't make the mark then you end up with not good enough.

And when arguing to people who don't much care about the animals
themselves there are often decent arguments in the area of concerns they
do care about - cost to taxpayers, cost to society, emotional and physical
harm to humans, lack of meeting buyer expectations ....

Anyway - please - when complaining about behavior of people like this
please take care that the arguement does not result in bad things for the
animals themselves. Painting the shelter dogs as "sub-standard"
contributes to the problem. It is that notion is what sends people looking
for *any* purebred dog, without an understanding of what is the cause of
animals in the shelter.

--
Diane Blackman
http://dog-play.com/
http://dogplay.com/Shop/dogplayshop.htm

WillyNille

unread,

Jul 21, 2005, 2:23:32 PM7/21/05

to

> Ultimately many of these sold animals will end up in shelters as their
> quality is sub-standard, does not meet the standards of the breed, and
> ultimately the pet will not meet the expectations of the buyer

This sells shelter animals pretty short. THe promotion of shelter animals
as substandard and unworthy causes so many people to bypass perfectly
wonderful shelter animals. It causes people to evaluate "quality" as if
cost and pedigree are its measure.

===================================

The message has nothing to do with shelters and I honestly think that 99.9
people who read the original message will clearly understand that it has to
do with AUCTIONING LIVE ANIMALS. Stop being petty and join a valid crusade
to stop online animal auction (should you be against it of course)

Whats on earth is wrong with you?

MM

Rocky

unread,

Jul 21, 2005, 2:35:43 PM7/21/05

to

WillyNille said in rec.pets.dogs.breeds:

> Whats on earth is wrong with you?

That's a odd reaction to honest and extremely constructive
cristicism.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Melinda Shore

unread,

Jul 21, 2005, 2:38:01 PM7/21/05

to

In article <11219702...@www.vif.com>,

WillyNille <Willy...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>The message has nothing to do with shelters and I honestly think that 99.9
>people who read the original message will clearly understand that it has to
>do with AUCTIONING LIVE ANIMALS.

She's right - you can argue your case without introducing
invalid arguments, ones that incorrectly derogate animals
that end up in shelters. I think it would be much easier to
make the case that the reason that animals purchased at
auction end up being surrendered by their owners (if that's
indeed true) is that people who make ininformed decisions
about how to acquire an animal tend to be uninformed owners,
as well, and are less able to handle the normal problems
that come up as part of pet ownership.

>(should you be against it of course)

G-ddammit, I hate it when people argue like Republican
hacks. Presumably you can make your point without trying to
smear Dianne.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com

Average real weekly wages are lower today than they
were at the end of the 2001 recession.

WillyNille

unread,

Jul 21, 2005, 3:28:57 PM7/21/05

to

First of all.... I am NOT the orignal poster of the message in question. I
am cross posting upon request, but even when I myself read this, I didn't
see any shelter bashing here so I don't see what her big deal is.

Secondly the dog-play.com person should at least respond to the original
poster and that's not me.

Arvida Kavara
M

Melinda Shore

unread,

Jul 21, 2005, 3:43:12 PM7/21/05

to

In article <11219741...@www.vif.com>,

WillyNille <Willy...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>First of all.... I am NOT the orignal poster of the message in question. I
>am cross posting upon request, but even when I myself read this, I didn't
>see any shelter bashing here so I don't see what her big deal is.

There's not "shelter bashing," there's "shelter dog
bashing."

To be honest I find your posts pretty completely
incoherent. I basically agree with what whoever it is is
trying to do (call attention to a problematic website/
practice) but the way you're going about it is nearly
incomprehensible.

Robin Nuttall

unread,

Jul 21, 2005, 5:51:34 PM7/21/05

to

WillyNille wrote:

Um, what? You make no sense. Oh and here's a small, teeny clue. This is
a discussion group. That means that (gasp) we get to DISCUSS things. Now
I know this may be difficult to grasp, but that means the "dog-play
person" can reply to any post she chooses, or to any aspect of any post
she chooses. And so do you. And so do I. Ain't life grand?

TheAmazing...@mail.com

unread,

Jul 21, 2005, 6:25:12 PM7/21/05

to

HOWEDY dejaclueless,

dejablues wrote:
> "Robin" <robina...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:wQWCe.164913$_o.17376@attbi_s71...

?

> > Yes, now you can auction off the family dog
> > to the highest internet bidder.
> >
> > http://www.anibid.com/
>

> -I am an outraged activist.

You're a dog abusing mental case:

"dejablues" <dejabl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2p4lk6F...@uni-berlin.de...

I recently rehomed one of my dogs that
submissively urinated, we tried for two
years to get him over it but nothing worked.
It is not a behavior I can live with.

> Who can I contact?

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!

Might wanna contact your psych doc, deja:

> >>>dejablues wrote:

> >>>>We live in the suburbs and have an acre of land,
> >>>>but on a busy road with no fence (and no plans
> >>>>or funds for a fence).

> >>>>With a not-too-bright dog that took over a year
> >>>> to housetrain, it was a constant vigil for the next pee
> >>>> or poo, which he would refuse to do on a walk, btw.

> >>>> I know what you mean.

> >>>> It added a lot of stress to my life.

> >>>I wish I could relate. Maybe that's my problem, fans,
> >>>I can't relate to people with dog problems? I am
> >>>cursed with this unrelenting brilliance, such that I
> >>>can't so much as conceive of what it must be like
> >>>to be a dog owning moron

> >>>I can't feel your pain

> >>>this is michael
> >>>reporting live...
> >>>http://dogtv.com

You want MOORE INSANITY LIES and ABUSE?

WE GOT PLENTY

LIKE THIS:

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20

ginge...@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

Lynn K. wrote:

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.
---------------------------------

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...

> >> Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
> >> quotes are true.

> >> In the posts below you take responsibility for
> >> making those calls.

> >> In your post above, you state you do not
> >> make those calls.

> >>Which one is it?

WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every
day.

I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn
more, while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post such sh*t,
I would hope that every other reader of this group
would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."

Lynn K.

-----------------------------------------

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------

SEE? TOLD YA SO!

Want someMOORE?:

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.

I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
you'd be singing a different tune?

"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and
put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer
for the trash company to come and dispose of.

No different tune," ~Emily

WE GOT PLENTY MOORE WHERE THAT
CAME FROM:

"BethF" <b...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com> wrote in message
news:v4r8kkf...@corp.supernews.com...

> "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatri...@adelphia.net>
wrote in message

> Kyle, FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
> and i often call my little dog the turd, because
> he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
> would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
> matter of personality.

> Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
> step on him once. Seriously.

"Hold Back The Dobie Girl So That Izzy Can
Put Simon In His Place," BINACA bethFIST.

"Beth F" <d...@spamthis.alaska.com> wrote in message:

"Whatever motivates the dog, but I daresay most of the dogs
I have in classes just aren't that interested in praise."

Leah Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her chronic
mental problems, recently changed
ANTI PSYCHOTIC medications.

"I don't think Jerry intentionally lies. I think he twists
things around in his own mind until he actually believes
what he's saying."

Jerry is the only poster here who gives dangerous
advice. Google for spike and squirt. And let's not
forget the times he's told posters whose dogs have
medical problems that his halfwits-end program could
cure them.

PetsMart Pet Trainer
My Kids, My Students, My Life

"It was kind of funny, in an absurd way. The rabbit
was completely still, eyes open and glazed, dried
blood in his ears and mouth, with his back legs
stiffening quickly.

I didn't mention that she arrived with a stethoscope
around her neck, and regularly interrupted her hysteria
to check his vitals, give him mouth-to-mouth and chest
compressions.

My student and I kept looking at each other, as in,
"What do we say???" Obviously, "I think he's gone,
honey," wasn't getting through.

It was her pet rabbit, not a wild bunny, so that made
it much harder for her.

And he was killed by bichons."

No leah. He was MURDERED by your SOCIALIZATION
classes and OBEDIENCE trainin bribery and crating.

LIKE THIS:

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK"
Makes A ResoundingSound Distraction: "When
You Chuck The Dog The Sound Will Travel Up
The Mandible To The Ears And Give A Popping
Sound To The Dog."

"An indelible impression can sometimes be made
by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration,
then leaving him tied by the mess he's made so you
can come back at twenty minute intervals and punish
him again for the same thing.

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment.

It will be better for your dog, as well as the house,
if you really pour it on him," wm koehler.

Paxil Princess psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."

lying frosty dahl says:

"To me, training a dog without using intimidation,
confrontation, or punishment is, indeed, everything. I
certainly reject "force" as Marilyn defines it. And "fear"
can be included under the category of intimidation.

Not a one of these is constructive in the training
of a dog; all are bad for the dog/handler relationship,
the dog's confidence, the dog's ultimate potential, etc.

But I do make use of tools and methods which I believe to
cause physical discomfort, including electric collars, pinch
collars, chain collars, switches, and the ear pinch.

I just don't equate the reaction with the tool/method--I look
at the dog to know its reaction. I think that is what some
people don't do: they are so full of surmises about what
causes what, that they never bother to regard the dog as
the authority.

I don't beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. For the
benefit of anyone who is in doubt, and who chooses
not to read the article (SHE'D REALLY LIKE IT IF
YOU DON'T READ IT!), there is NO mention in it of
"twisting ears (INDEED, SHE PINCHES THEM WITH
SPIKES).

I would never slap a dog (SHE TEACHES PEOPLE TO
BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS TO MOTIVATE THEM).

I would never advise anyone to slap a dog
(SHE'S A PROVEN LIAR AND DOG ABUSER,
do you expect her to ADMIT THE TRUTH???).

I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever,
where slapping a dog is anything but destructive."

RIGHT. She PINCHES, not twists... and chin cuff
doesn't mean hit, it means slap. amy lyingfrosty dahl
continues:

"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs we have trained
require much more frequent and heavy application of
pressure (PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your increasing authority,
and the job is not done until it is overcome

Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less
tractable dogs may require you to progress to striking
them more sharply.

With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'

Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the
stick. Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to
the dummy.

Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog,

Now you are ready to progress to what most
people think of as force-fetching: the ear pinch.

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent
that resisting your will fades in importance.

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb;

even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against that

Say "fetch" while pressing the dummy
against its lips and pinching its ear.

if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing
and the collar, even the buckle on the collar.

Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in"

Here's lying frosty dahl BEATING A DOG to TRAIN IT:

Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from
professional trainers, John and Amy Dahl.

"Around four months many puppies can withstand a
correction. Unfortunately this is the time they start
teething and if their mouth hurts, they may act
generally sensitive. If this is the case, be patient and
wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.

In training, retrievers often respond to physical correction
better than verbal correction. While "NO!" is extremely
useful if puppy is about to bite an electrical cord or steal
food off the table, when you are teaching them something
(like obedience) a sharp jerk on their lead or swat with a
stick gets the message across with less emotion and less
effect on their confidence.

If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts
when they are teething, stop all retrieving and wait for
their mouth to feel better. A correction should be just
severe enough to get the dog to respond.

Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the dog."

=====================

Amy Dahl writes:

"From where I sit, there is a difference. I haven't noticed
any of the contingent who like Koehler trying to force
their method on everyone, or calling others names because
they do not use the method.

I personally believe the Koehler method is a more
humane way of teaching than any alternative I have
studied.

And I am not averse to learning--I have studied a
number of methods.

Koehler, of course, stops far short of the specialized
work I do with retrievers, and some of the things in his
book, such as making the dog walk behind the handler
on the "finish," are inappropriate for retriever work.

Why do I think Koehler's method is more humane than others?

First, I don't believe "corrections vs. no corrections" is as
significant to dogs as it is to people. Applied correctly,
Koehler's method uses *no* intimidation, fear, or emotional
manipulation. It is clear and definite, and the handler's
actions are always predictable. The method is masterfully
designed to prevent confrontation or vying for control in
any way. It places high demands of responsibility on the
trainer, and takes a great deal of commitment to do correctly,
so it is not for the casual "dabbler." When done well,very
few corrections are needed.

In brief, I think the clarity, predictability, and absence
of emotional blackmail weigh more strongly in the method's
favor, than the occasional brief unpleasantness of correction
weighs against it." lying frosty dahl.

You want MOORE INSANE?

WE GOT PLENTY!:

MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION

"KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"

MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS,
DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...

YOU DO THE MATH

"What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,
'I take anti-depressives'"

-------------------------------------

From: Gary & lois Edwards (g...@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02

BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted." The
good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.
No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."
Lois E.

-------------------------------------

WillyNille

unread,

Jul 22, 2005, 10:37:07 AM7/22/05

to

You know.. you have an opportunity here.
You can either take it or leave it.
The original post called for some support from the canine community to back
up the no-sell-animals-on-the-internet.

Use the opportunity if you see fit or if you have an opinion to offer. If
people (animal lovers who disagree with on-line auctions), cannot cohesively
work towards something, then it is no wonder that places like anibid exsist.

Instead of offering support, (which is what these anti-auction are asking),
you are all haranging on an issue that will not push anything forward. For
all we know the original poster is Danish or French and has a bad command of
English.

Please.....

sad... very sad indeed.

WN

Mike

unread,

Jul 22, 2005, 4:06:14 PM7/22/05

to

Can't you do that on eBay???

TO...@dog-play.com

unread,

Jul 22, 2005, 4:44:48 PM7/22/05

to

On 22 Jul 2005 13:06:14 -0700 Mike <Jpeg...@gmail.com> whittled these words:

> Can't you do that on eBay???

Nope

YourConscience

unread,

Jul 24, 2005, 5:07:56 PM7/24/05

to

HOWEDY Master Of Deception blankman,

TO...@dog-play.com wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:17:54 -0400 WillyNille <Willy...@removethisyahoo.com> whittled these words:
>
> > Ultimately many of these sold animals will end up in shelters

That WOULD be VERY UNFORTUNATE, knowin HOWE
SOME of these "SHELTERS" and "RESCUES" work:

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.

It's a safety necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

> > as their quality is sub-standard,

Well, we wouldn't tolerate THAT here abHOWETS:

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.

---------------------------------

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...

Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.

In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.

In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.

Which one is it?

------------------------------------------

THAT'S INSANE, AIN'T IT...

> > does not meet the standards of the breed,

A dog is a dog.

> > and ultimately the pet will not meet the expectations
> > of the buyer

Well THAT only happens if the critter was UNFIT or mishandled.

> This sells shelter animals pretty short.

You mean those shelters you and your PERSONAL REAL
LIFE PAL lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" and racetrack silly
and tara o. aka tee are involved in NETWORKIN, Master
Of Deception blankman?:

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," racetrack silly.

> THe promotion of shelter animals as substandard and
> unworthy causes so many people to bypass perfectly
> wonderful shelter animals. It causes people to
> evaluate "quality" as if cost and pedigree are its
> measure.

That so?

I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
you'd be singing a different tune?

"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and
put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer
for the trash company to come and dispose of.

No different tune," ~Emily

> By that measure there are, unfortunately, animals

> of very high "quality" that end up in shelters.

Yeah. You and your "SHELTER / RESCUE" pals GET PAID
to TAKE THEM IN on accHOWENT of they don't know HOWE
to teach folks to rehabilitate their own dogs and
SELL THEM to folks who can tolerate or jerk choke
and shock the dog enough to make them LOVE their
new HOWESES, isn't that correct, Master Of Deception
blankman.

> The problem with dogs in the shelter is
> simply that they are IN the shelter,

No, the PROBLEM with the SHELTERS is the MENTAL
CASES like your personal real life pals who HURT
INTIMDIDATE and MURDER innocent dumb critters and
LIE abHOWET IT.

LIKE THIS:

> and that there are too many of them.

INDEEDY. Like Boxer Rescue Of N.C.. Your pal tara o.
aka tee MURDERED her own Boxer Rescue dog Summer on
accHOWENT Of she couldn't train IT and she's got the
SAME PROBLEM with her REPLACEMENT Boxer Rescue Dog.

Seems you RESCUE and SHELTER folks are hurtin
intimidating and MURDERIN dogs and LYIN abHOWET it.

> The difference between breeders whose dogs end up in
> shelters and those who don't has more to do with initial
> placement and buyer support than the "quality" of the dogs.

Well THAT AIN'T TRUE, Master Of Deception blankman
given that MOST dogs are DUMPED for behavior problems
caused by abusing dogs JUST LIKE HOWE your SHELTER
and RESCUE PALS got a BAD HABIT of doin...

> That is why the qualities of the responsible breeder

Like ~emily, Master Of Deception blankman?

I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
you'd be singing a different tune?

"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and
put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer
for the trash company to come and dispose of.

No different tune," ~Emily

> must include more than winning shows and some health testing.

> Neither of those actions protect the dog from shelter dumping.

What PROTECTS the dogs from your DOG ABUSING MENTAL
CASE SHELTER PALS Master Of Deception blankman?

> And while I'm a strong proponent of breeding for good health,

Your last DEAD DOG DIED from STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDDROME <{); ~ ) >

> appropriate temperament,

ALL TEMPERAMENT PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

> and preditcable characteristics these factors
> merely influence the risks.

You mean jerking choking shocking bribing beating
crating intimidating don't INFLUENCE RISKS? Here's
HOWER GREY HOWEND RESCUE DOG LOVER:

"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv...@4ax.com...

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars

Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63...@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-righteous,
this post shows and absence of knowledge in the differences
in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps a lack of ability to perceive
same. The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to whom
corrections and discomfort, even pain, were unimportant does
not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about dogs
as you think you do, and you surely don't know a damn
thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with one
of her housemates; that dog had no fear or anything,
and pain incurred during a fight meant nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that you,
Alison, continue to say things to people such as what
you said to Theresa about causing her dog to suffer
(at least I guess that's what you meant by "you cause
your dog suffers" - - must be the King's English you
guys talk about over there) means that you are an
ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person who is not worth
further notice.
Sally Hennessey

> There are perfectly heathly excellent pets in shelters,

Yeah? HOWE COME your pals HURT THEM?

> and there are carefully bred dogs who nevertheless
> have poor temperament, or lousy genetic health.

No, you AIN'T blamin the DOG noMOORE you freakin mental case.

> The problem with the animals in shelters is

YOUR PALS ABUSE THEM.

> not that they are "sub-standard" but that they are there at all.

Most of them are THERE on accHOWENT of they been MISHANDLED>

> If you want to appeal to the thinking of unfair shifting
> of costs, the problem with the shelters is that breeders
> take the profit but not the responsiblity for the existence
> of their "product."

Well you SCAM ARTIST DHOWEBLE DIP comin an goin
hand over fist you GET PAID to TAKE IN dogs and
you GET PAID TO SELL DOGS... for a WEE BIT OF MONEY.

And you GET PAID TO MURDER DOGS.

> > There are purebred animal shelters all over North
> > America spanning every breed of dog, cat, horse,
> > pig and more. It is THEY who will be the final
> > recipients of these pets.

That so? You mean on accHOWENT of they wasn't
under the GUIDANCE of EXXXPERTS like you and
tara o. aka tee and racetrack silly and lying
"I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn or your punk thug coward
mental case pal lying frosty dahl who DISCOVERED
CANIBALISM in her own dogs when she LEFT a new
mom unatended so she could MAKE MONEY?

> > Not sure? Think I'm story telling?

We KNOW SOMEWON IS LYIN.

> > just ask any one of them or spend a day at any one
> > of the to see exactly what happens to the "junk"
> > pets you are trying to promote.

Let's take a LOOK at who is EVALUATING and TRAINING
and HEELPING those DESPERATE critters, shall we?

> The problem with the method of sale is not that the
> animals are "junk" but that it tends to result in
> the animal being sold in a way with a high risk of
> failure.

You mean like tara o. aka tee's current and last
DEAD Boxer Rescue dog and racetrack silly's DEAd
RESCUE DOG SHE MURDERED?

> Without the pre-screening of a responsible breeder

Your pals HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER DOGS AND LIE
abHOWET IT as YOU JUST SEEN...

> there is little opportunity to educate buyers
> out of unwise choices.

We're makin a start on that right here.

> Most of these buyers don't know what they don't know.

We'll WIZE THEM UP. Here's your personal real life
pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's REAL LIFE PARTNER
IN RESCUE:

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???

> They won't learn it from such sales.

LET'S PREY.

> Without the continuing support of the responsible breeder

Like ~emily and kwbrown and dianne s?

> there is a higher risk of failure.

INDEED. It's ALL in The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives.

> The respobsible breeder provides knowledgable
> information and resources to the buyer.

Yeah? Your pals are dog abusers and liars and
MENTAL CASES by their own quoted case histories.

LIKE THIS:

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.

> Janet Boss
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...

> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

THAT'S INSANE, AIN'T IT.

HERE'S HOWE COME:

WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every
day.

I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn
more, while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post such sh*t,
I would hope that every other reader of this group
would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."

Lynn K.

---------------------------

SEE? SEE? SEE?

> Otherwise the buyer, again, doesn't know what they
> don't know and is left floundering or relying on
> other's sincere but misguided information.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

YOU GOT BALLS!

> The cost is not only the life of the animal,

YOUR PALS MURDER DOGS.

> but the emotions of the people.

Oh, we wouldn't wanna hurt noWON's feelins.

> Getting the wrong pet and then dumping it

That's what your pals do with the RESCUE
dogs the FOSTER.

REMEBER, Master Of Deception blankman?:

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.

It's a safety necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

> often has profound adverse effects on children.

You mean like tara o. aka tee's daughter who's
takin ANTI PSYCHOTIC DRUGS since first grade
on accHOWENT of her BOXER RESCUE MOMMY MURDERED
her own DEAD DOG on accHOWET of she couldn't
stop jerking choking crating spraying aversives
in her face and shocking and MURDERIN IT?

> It can shatter them, or make them emotonally hard,
> neither of which is good for society.

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!

Most of you MENTAL CASES HURT INTIMDIATE and MURDER
dogs and LIE abHOWET it and BLAME the DOG.

> > I hope a law exsists out there somewhere that will
> > let you see the light.
>
> The existence or non-existence of law is not a very
> good way of evaluating the rightness or wrongness of
> an action. I prefer education to law making.

What's WRONG with AUCTIONS?

You're only WORRIED abHOWET COMPETITION.

THEY SELL CRITTERS YOU WANT TO SELL IN YOUR NETWORKIN BUSINESS.

> > I will not spend one penny, nickel or dime to support this site.

Whatever. Let's get to the REAL PROBLEM. YOU.

> > Shame on all of you! I know I'm not alone in my feelings either.
> > It won't surprise me or any of the readers here if this message is removed
> > either.
>
> When presenting argument it is always useful to pay
> attention to the beliefs and concerns of those to
> whom you are arguing.

Yeah, JUST DISREGARD THE QUOTED ABUSES AND LIES.

> If they regard companion animals as merely livestock
> then the emotional plug is hardly going to be persuasive.

BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

The department of agriculture does a FINE job
regulating AUCTIONS and interstate shipment of
critters, Master Of Deception blankman.

> I so often see people arguing that the dog is "sub-
> standard" merely because it fails to meet breed
> standard.

Like all them DEAD DOGS your PALS enterTRAINED TO DEATH.

> In most cases this is offered in circumstances where
> that quality is simply unimportant to the person looking
> for a companion animal.

BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

> I'm a believer that predictable characteristics

Like LIES ABUSE and MENTAL ILLNESS.

> is a good thing to improve success in companion animal adoptions.

PROBLEMO, eh?

> But I suggest that for most people the important
> predictable characteristics are somewhat broader.

That so?

> They want good temperament, good health, the expected coat and size.

Those are ALL VASTLY GREATER INFLUENCED BY APUPRIATE HANDLING
TENDER LOVING CARE and FRESH HEELTHFUL DIET than your BUNK.

> They want the behavior to resemble breed descriptions

You mean descritptions by your EXXXPERT ETHICKAL BREEDER?

> and they want the appearance to resemble breed descriptions.

And that's the shootin match, Master Of Dceptin blankman.

> They, for the most part, will never notice variations that
> would get the dog laughed out of the conformation ring.

Sez you? You're blowin smoke up HOWER arses again.

> The point is that when you argue "well bred" to the
> person looking for a pet, or looking to market pets,
> these are the concerns to keep in mind.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

> It doesn't hurt, once you have addressed those concerns,
> to point out that to keep those "acceptable" qualities it
> is neccessary for the breeder to hold to somewhat higher
> standards.

Sez you and your ETHICKAL PALS.

> The idea being is that if you breed for better than
> the buyer needs and you don't quite make the mark you
> are likely to end up with good enough.

Well then HOWE COME your NETWORKING pal dianne s
who SELLS PUPPIES ON THE NET, is "BREEDING UP" for
BETTER SHOULDER HEAD NECK STANCE, and BRED to an
"unproven" untitled un EVERY THING puppy mill stud?

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAA!!!

> But if you only breed for good enough and you don't
> make the mark then you end up with not good enough.

YOU'RE REPEATIN YOURSELF AGAIN.

> And when arguing to people who don't much care about
> the animals themselves there are often decent arguments
> in the area of concerns they do care about -

You mean like a SAFE HOWES for dogs?:

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.

It's a safety necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.
---------------------------------

From: sionnach (rhyfe...@email.msn.com)
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST

> And Sally responded:
> > Who said that? I would never do or recommend
> > that, and neither would most of the regulars
> > on here. Sally Hennessey

> I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed
> to do so. Take it out of context and you'd think
> I was flinging puppies across the room!
>
> here's what I said (keep in mind that we're
> talking about a 12 week old ~25# FCR puppy):
>
> A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> very persistant.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer- given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?

I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is very
persistant, it can be appropriate to take hold of the
loose skin at the back of the neck and give a slight
shake to the *skin*".

Janet's not talking about actually shaking
the puppy, which I think we ALL agree is
abusive."

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.

> Janet Boss

"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...

> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had apointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.

From: sighthounds etc. <greypigho...@ncweb.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:15:07 -0400
Subject: Re: oops another puppy wizzard question [Jerry]

On 10 Jul 2003 17:28:40 GMT, Dimpled Chad
<dimpl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On 10 Jul 2003, Gwen Watson opined:

>> Dimpled Chad wrote:

>>> The [Jerry] tag is to aid people who don't want to read the
>>> conversation you have with him, and to keep *you* from being filtered
>>> out should you want to participate in conversation with the others.
>>> This being usenet, you are welcome to post any way you want, of course.
>>> The tag is requested nettiquette, and not that onerous.

>>> Chad

>> Although in some ways since so many ppl are threatened to be plonked
>> if they don't use the tag I sort of see it more like "dictatorship"
>> than an actual nice request. More like "if you don't buddy, you won't
>> get to play in our sandbox, neener, neener. So if ya want hang with
>> the "in" crowd ya best do as you are *told* and add the tag are
>> ya won't be playing. JMO

>And I just don't see it that way. *shrug* Some folk like to interact with
>Jerry. That's fine. If it gets too prolific, the crap to info ratio goes
>through the roof. The tag helps minimize that for those who can't stand the
>noise; otherwise they KF the people making it. I don't see it as a threat at
>all. No one is forcing anyone to kf anyone or to put any tag anywhere.

I agree. Whether or not Jerry is mentally ill or just a giant
asshat, it's mighty annoying, to say the least, when he pulls up posts
from 3 years ago and replies to them. It's way beyond annoying (to
me) when he makes inane statements about all dogs being alike, all
behavior problems being caused by mishandling, health problems and
illnesses being caused by stress which is caused by choke collars,
etc. I don't want to see that stuff, or even have to wade through it,
and I don't want to see responses to it. People who want to read it
are welcome to it. I choose to killfile it, along with anyone who
doesn't want to use the tag. I don't see it as a dictatorship, and I
certainly don't belong to any clique or club. It just makes life here
a little easier.

Mustang Sally

==========================

> cost to taxpayers, cost to society, emotional and physical
> harm to humans, lack of meeting buyer expectations ....

Looks like you are the bum interested in PROFIT
MOORE than the WELFARE of innocent dumb critters
your SHELTER RESCUE PROFITEERS HURT INTIMDIATE
and MURDER, Master Of Deception blankman.

> Anyway -

You mean anyHOWE, Master Of Deception blankman.

> please - when complaining about behavior of people like this

You mean the lyin dog abusing punk thug coward mental
cases you call ETHICKAL breeders shelter rescue and
foster care dog lovers, Master Of Deception blankman?

> please take care that the arguement does not
> result in bad things for the animals themselves.

You mean LIKE THIS?:

"I do not own an aggressive dog. If I did, I'd put
a bullet in it's head.