Please keep your dog out
Andy
nasty. First of all, it's a place where food is stored. Secondly, think
about those who may have allergies to your dog. People shouldn't have
allergic reactions to your dog when they go shopping for food.
I've never even seen a blind person bring a seeing-eye dog into a grocery
store. The blind have more respect than most other people do.
I've seen a dog sitting in a car, with the engine running, (I assumed so the
air conditioner could keep the dog cool) when their owner was shopping for
groceries. This is perfectly ok. The dog doesn't have to burn up and it
stays outside. The dog that I saw was pretty big, so someone would have to
be brave or insane to try to mess with the car...like try to steal it.
I like dogs and cats, but we should be aware of those who have allergies to
these animals. They don't belong in a grocery store...even if you're
holding the dog the whole time.
Peace.
The Carrolls
law to have anything except humans in a store that sells human food...
~Emily
Andy wrote in message ...
Shelly
around...
*chuckling*
Shelly, Coda & Guiness....
"The Carrolls" <car...@dundee.net> wrote in message
news:Qe6c5.1597$Y91.2...@newshog.newsread.com...
Nancy Holmes or Nelson Ruffin
I hope you left your cigarettes and perfume outdoors every time you shop and
that you never ever have to shop in a store where there are scented candles,
perfumed toiletpaper and flowers scattered lurking all over the store right
on the aisles where people need to buy items.
I wish people brought their dogs in the stores instead of their bratty
screaming children who poke holes in every meat package because they are
bored with the same fingers they stick up their snotty noses.
Nancy
Andy <m_lev...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:L_5c5.40774$T%3.38...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
BlueDogs
Andy <m_lev...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:L_5c5.40774$T%3.38...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> I've seen some people bring their dogs into grocery stores. People, this
is
> nasty. First of all, it's a place where food is stored. Secondly, think
> about those who may have allergies to your dog. People shouldn't have
> allergic reactions to your dog when they go shopping for food.
>
> I've never even seen a blind person bring a seeing-eye dog into a grocery
> store. The blind have more respect than most other people do.
Actually the disabilities act provides that service dogs (hearing, seeing,
etc.) are allowed ANYWHERE. Should peoples *pets* be brought into grocery
stores? Most places have health laws that prevent this from happening.
However I do not have a problem at all with a service dog aiding his owner
in leading a normal life. Whether that means the dog is standing next to me
in line at the grocery store or sitting on the floor at the table next to me
at a resturaunt. These people have a right to lead a normal life and if that
means their service dog goes with them to the grocery store, then so be it.
Just because you haven't seen a seeing eye dog in a grocery store does not
mean it doesn't happen every day.
--
Darlene Molina
Official ArfKids WebWiz
"A Rinty for Kids"
Providing service dogs
to disabled children
http://www.arfkids.com
Web...@arfkids.com
Douglas A. Shrader
doing that once. It was 95 in the shade so I left the windows up and the A/C
on. I was gone about ten minutes and when I returned and opened the door it
felt like an oven inside. The compressor had locked up and the fan was
blowing hot air into the car. A few more minutes and it would have been to
late, so never trust the A/C to keep your dog cool unsupervised.
--
Douglas A. Shrader & Jake
"Andy" <m_lev...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:L_5c5.40774$T%3.38...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> I've seen some people bring their dogs into grocery stores. People, this
is
> nasty. First of all, it's a place where food is stored. Secondly, think
> about those who may have allergies to your dog. People shouldn't have
> allergic reactions to your dog when they go shopping for food.
>
> I've never even seen a blind person bring a seeing-eye dog into a grocery
> store. The blind have more respect than most other people do.
>
Shelly
And, for that matter, not just the "recognizable" service dogs (GSDs, Labs,
Goldens).
While attending a herding trial last summer, I met a woman with MS. She
cannot walk/do many functions without the aid and support
(literally--physically) of her dog. This happened to be at a Collie
breeders kennel/home, and the event was sponsored by CCA. She told me a
story about once when she was out with her husband, and a small group of
friends, and of course, her gorgeous rough-coated, merle Collie name Angel
(I think), first the waiter informed her that she cannot bring her dog
inside (it was a casual place, along the lines of a Red Robin or an
Applebees). She told them it was a service dog, and showed them a piece of
identification. The manager came out & began to make a fuss. "Collie's
are not service dogs, and you're neither blind, nor deaf", he proceeded to
inform her.
Eeesh...well, ugly as the scene was. She eventually persuaded them to
allow her dog to stay. As naive as I am to MS, and to other forms of
disabilities for that matter, if someone has proper ID, they should be
allowed to live a "normal" life, and welcome to do so.
Shelly, Coda & Guiness....
"Lynn Kosmakos" <lkos...@home.com> wrote in message
news:39710695...@home.com...
>
>
> Anita Ellertsen wrote:
> >
> > If a blind person can bring his or her dog with him whereever they need
to,
> > any other person with a dog should be allowed to do the same thing.
>
> Wrong. You are capable of negotiating the grocery store without the
> aid of a dog; a blind person may not be. The basis of ADA is to
> protect the access rights of the disabled to the same facilities that
> the able bodied are able to use without assistance.
>
> Lynn K.
BlueDogs
Anita Ellertsen <ani...@frisurf.no> wrote in message
news:bl7c5.14301$MS3.2...@news1.online.no...
> This is interesting because on one hand you have people with allergies and
> those who are afraid of dogs...and their rights. THEN there`s the blind
and
> the people with other dissabilities, and their rights.
>
Why would anyone need to be afraid of a well trained, calm and obedient
service dog who's at the end of a leash and either clearly wearing a
specific identifying vest (such as the ones shown here:
http://www.nucapes.com ) or a special harness to let people know they are
there to do a job and not run rampant? An allergic person is not going to be
living in the same house as this dog. If their allergies are so severe that
a dog merely walking past them is going to aggravate their allergies to the
point of feeling discomfort, then may I suggest an allergy medication? Just
as people who suffer from severe allergies or hayfever take medications, and
even get injections of allergy medications to help them lead a normal life,
disabled people utilize the love and devotion of a service dog to add to the
quality of their lives. Unfortunately there is no pill that can cure or at
least temporarily alleviate the effects of blindness, deafness, Cerebal
Palsy, Musclular Dystrophy, or permanent physical injuries, etc.
> So, for anyone with some kind of service dog it`s ok to bring the dog with
> them anywhere, including grocery stores ( which I think is a bit too
much ),
> to the discomfort of the allergy people BUT it`s not ok for the rest of
> us???
>
This is perhaps the most prejudicial statement I've ever seen regarding the
basic human rights of disabled people with service dogs.
> That`s so ridiculous!!!
> If a blind person can bring his or her dog with him whereever they need
to,
> any other person with a dog should be allowed to do the same thing. OR the
> ones with servicedogs should abide by the rules the rest of us has to
> follow!!
>
> Ryan
>
>
I take that back. This one takes the cake. Wow. I'm speechless at your
indifference to the needs of people living with disabilities. Shame on you.
--
~Darlene Molina~
Official ArfKids WebWiz
"A Rinty for Kids"
Providing service dogs
to disabled children.
http://www.arfkids.com
Web...@arfkids.com
BlueDogs
Shelly <shel...@uswest.net> wrote in message
news:0Eac5.870$E97.4...@news.uswest.net...
> And, not just the blind...
> And, for that matter, not just the "recognizable" service dogs (GSDs,
Labs,
> Goldens).
You are exactly right. People with various disabilities each have their own
specific needs and in some cases need the dog to be small enough to hop
easily in their lap. A good example of a "non standard breed" service dog
can be seen in a video clip of a news report on our web site regarding
"Shep". The Sheltie\Papillion? SPCA rescue who was spotted by our trainer
who was scouting the local shelters\rescues for a young small breed dog with
exceptional intelligence, temperament, and will to please among other
criteria. It's a great clip and you can see it at http://www.arfkids.com
BlueDogs
Tina <mookey...@cs.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20000715210712...@ng-cj1.news.cs.com...
> >Anita Ellertsen wrote:
> >>
> >> If a blind person can bring his or her dog with him whereever they need
to,
> >> any other person with a dog should be allowed to do the same thing.
> >
>
> Do you park in handicap parking without a permit ?
>
EXCELLENT example Tina.
BlueDogs
> >
> > If a blind person can bring his or her dog with him whereever they need
to,
> > any other person with a dog should be allowed to do the same thing.
>
> aid of a dog; a blind person may not be. The basis of ADA is to
> protect the access rights of the disabled to the same facilities that
> the able bodied are able to use without assistance.
>
> Lynn K.
Exactly. I can't believe what Ms. Elertson posted. She obviously has no idea
what it's like to be disabled, nor wishes to open her mind to the concept.
She is also apparently incapable of seeing the difference between a pet dog
who has no business being in a grocery store, and a well trained service dog
making a difference in a person's life through his devotion and work. How
sad. :(
Nic
"Andy" <m_lev...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:L_5c5.40774$T%3.38...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> I've seen some people bring their dogs into grocery stores. People, this
is
> nasty. First of all, it's a place where food is stored. Secondly, think
> about those who may have allergies to your dog. People shouldn't have
> allergic reactions to your dog when they go shopping for food.
And, they could have allergic reactions to other shoppers that wear perfume
or smoke.
<sarcasm>People with allergies probably just shouldn't leave their house.
You can order groceries over the internet, now.</sarcasm>
> I've never even seen a blind person bring a seeing-eye dog into a grocery
> store. The blind have more respect than most other people do.
You just haven't seen one. Service dogs are welcome EVERYWHERE.
> I've seen a dog sitting in a car, with the engine running, (I assumed so
the
> air conditioner could keep the dog cool) when their owner was shopping for
> groceries. This is perfectly ok. The dog doesn't have to burn up and it
> stays outside. The dog that I saw was pretty big, so someone would have
to
> be brave or insane to try to mess with the car...like try to steal it.
Not a safe thing to do. A freind's car was broken into with her GSD inside.
What did they steal? The dog...
> I like dogs and cats, but we should be aware of those who have allergies
to
> these animals. They don't belong in a grocery store...even if you're
> holding the dog the whole time.
>
> Peace.
I'd rather have nicely groomed, well trained dogs in the grocery store than
a lot of people.
Nic, Brando the APBT, Buster the Pug, Tommy the Cat, Phil the Corn Snake
http://www.teleport.com/~pitbull
Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me, for I
may not follow. Do not walk beside me, either. Just leave me the hell alone.
RihadinK9
>nasty. First of all, it's a place where food is stored.
I've known many kids dirtier than dogs.
>I've never even seen a blind person bring a seeing-eye dog into a grocery
>store. The blind have more respect than most other people do.
There are seeing eye dogs all the time in the stores here. As well as other
service dogs.
Virginia Cleary
Rihadin Kennels
& The Crafty K9
Phoenix, AZ
Anita Ellertsen
those who are afraid of dogs...and their rights. THEN there`s the blind and
the people with other dissabilities, and their rights.
So, for anyone with some kind of service dog it`s ok to bring the dog with
them anywhere, including grocery stores ( which I think is a bit too much ),
to the discomfort of the allergy people BUT it`s not ok for the rest of
us???
That`s so ridiculous!!!
If a blind person can bring his or her dog with him whereever they need to,
Lynn Kosmakos
Anita Ellertsen wrote:
>
> If a blind person can bring his or her dog with him whereever they need to,
> any other person with a dog should be allowed to do the same thing.
Wrong. You are capable of negotiating the grocery store without the
Tracy Klein
is
> >nasty. First of all, it's a place where food is stored.
I agree that animals should not be allowed in grocery stores unless they're
service dogs. If the store you shop at is allowing people to bring their
pets in maybe you should be looking for another place to shop. Maybe you
should be writing to the owner/manager of your grocery store. As far as I
know, animals are not allowed in establishments where food is prepared and
or stored. As soon as you get rid of the dogs please start working on
getting rid of the bratty snot nosed kids and the awful parents who let them
act that way.
Tracy
Damn the torpedoes...full speed ahead!!
Tina
>>
>> If a blind person can bring his or her dog with him whereever they need to,
>> any other person with a dog should be allowed to do the same thing.
>
Do you park in handicap parking without a permit ?
Tina/mookeysmom
"new photos added to photo album & slide show":
http://community.webshots.com/album/1423111eQdinNWDrt
ZnCo
programs. As much as I love my dog, and as well-behaved as he is, there are
certain places he just doesn't belong. Allowing service dogs in places
other dogs aren't isn't hypocrisy. It merely means that the blind, deaf,
and otherwise disabled have a greater chance at the freedom most of us take
for granted.
"Lynn Kosmakos" <lkos...@home.com> wrote in message
news:39710695...@home.com...
>
>
> Anita Ellertsen wrote:
> >
> > If a blind person can bring his or her dog with him whereever they need
to,
> > any other person with a dog should be allowed to do the same thing.
>
Lynn Kosmakos
ZnCo wrote:
>
> As much as I love my dog, and as well-behaved as he is, there are
> certain places he just doesn't belong. Allowing service dogs in places
> other dogs aren't isn't hypocrisy.
Exactly. There is a world of difference between wanting to have
your dog with you and needing to have a dog with you.
Lynn K.
Andy
customers about these kinds of things, (bringing in animals, not wearing
shoes or socks, not wearing a shirt, etc.). They don't want to lose the
business of those customers. However, they don't realize that they may lose
the business of others shopping who see these things and don't like it.
"Tracy Klein" <tkl...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:TJ7c5.3059$9Y4.3...@typhoon.neo.rr.com...
shelly
<shel...@uswest.net> wrote:
>Eeesh...well, ugly as the scene was. She eventually persuaded them to
>allow her dog to stay. As naive as I am to MS, and to other forms of
>disabilities for that matter, if someone has proper ID, they should be
>allowed to live a "normal" life, and welcome to do so.
>Shelly, Coda & Guiness....
i used to work at an art museum where the policy, not
surprisingly, was no dogs allowed. *however*, if someone
*did* bring a dog in, we were to ask if it was a service
dog. if it was, then that was the end of the conversation.
we were not allowed to enquire further about either permits
for the dog or the type of disability the person had.
i hope the woman never went back to that restaurant again!
shelly and elliott & harriet
http://members.home.net/scouvrette/index/
remove SPAMALOPE for e-mail
The Carrolls
Anita Ellertsen wrote in message ...
>This is interesting because on one hand you have people with allergies and
>those who are afraid of dogs...and their rights. THEN there`s the blind and
>the people with other dissabilities, and their rights.
>
>So, for anyone with some kind of service dog it`s ok to bring the dog with
>them anywhere, including grocery stores ( which I think is a bit too
much ),
>to the discomfort of the allergy people BUT it`s not ok for the rest of
>us???
>
>That`s so ridiculous!!!
>ones with servicedogs should abide by the rules the rest of us has to
>follow!!
You've misstated it. It should be:
"If a blind person MUST bring his or her dog with him wherever they need to,
any other person that MUST bring his or her dog with him should be allowed
to do the same."
If you can not navigate a grocery store without a dog, then by all means you
should bring it with you.
If you can not walk through a store, by all means take your wheelchair with
you.
If you can not pick up items off the floor without the aid of a dog, by all
means take it with you.
IF you can, then by no means do your rights override mine.
~Emily
The Carrolls
there'd be plenty of people knowing that I had to do so. Then, I'm not
disabled.
~Emily
Shelly wrote in message <0Eac5.870$E97.4...@news.uswest.net>...
>And, not just the blind...
>And, for that matter, not just the "recognizable" service dogs (GSDs, Labs,
>Goldens).
>While attending a herding trial last summer, I met a woman with MS. She
>cannot walk/do many functions without the aid and support
>(literally--physically) of her dog. This happened to be at a Collie
>breeders kennel/home, and the event was sponsored by CCA. She told me a
>story about once when she was out with her husband, and a small group of
>friends, and of course, her gorgeous rough-coated, merle Collie name Angel
>(I think), first the waiter informed her that she cannot bring her dog
>inside (it was a casual place, along the lines of a Red Robin or an
>Applebees). She told them it was a service dog, and showed them a piece
of
>identification. The manager came out & began to make a fuss. "Collie's
>are not service dogs, and you're neither blind, nor deaf", he proceeded to
>inform her.
>Eeesh...well, ugly as the scene was. She eventually persuaded them to
>allow her dog to stay. As naive as I am to MS, and to other forms of
>disabilities for that matter, if someone has proper ID, they should be
>allowed to live a "normal" life, and welcome to do so.
>Shelly, Coda & Guiness....
>
>
>
>"Lynn Kosmakos" <lkos...@home.com> wrote in message
>news:39710695...@home.com...
>>
>>
>> Anita Ellertsen wrote:
>> >
>> > If a blind person can bring his or her dog with him whereever they need
>to,
>> > any other person with a dog should be allowed to do the same thing.
>>
The Carrolls
Andy wrote in message ...
confront
>customers about these kinds of things, (bringing in animals, not wearing
>shoes or socks, not wearing a shirt, etc.). They don't want to lose the
>business of those customers. However, they don't realize that they may
lose
>the business of others shopping who see these things and don't like it.
It seems odd to me that there are so few people in the world who care to
comment about things like that.
It's illegal for stores to serve people without shoes and/or a shirt.
Granted I don't care at my local corner store because it's a Mom & Pop and
they're not exactly the nicest people anyways, but if it was a major chain
you can bet that I'd talk to the manager and inform them that I wouldn't be
returning.
I've done the same for rude clerks and mis-charges. And don't get me
started on my 2 1/2 hr. pizza the night my computer DIED...
The moral of the story: If you don't like what's happening in a business
establishment, tell someone. You make more of an impact on the store than
simply never returning.
~Emily
RihadinK9
>Do you park in handicap parking without a permit ?
>
>
>Tina/mookeysmom
He probably does. His sort are the reason we need the Americans With
Disabilities Act.
Kristi Howard
your dog with you"....****
But, those like me who aren't "legally deaf" but have to wear 2 hearing aids
can't have their dogs with them?
I think that is unfair, because my dog even tells me when the phone rings at
the house...and I could use her guidance to know someone is coming up on me
at the market.
This dog is not trained to do this...she has picked up on my needs.
I personally think if a responsible person were to bring a dog into a
supermarket...as long as they were prepared for accidents, etc...what would
the problem be?
Do children not bite or hit if threatened? Do they not pee on the floor
when they have to go? Do they not come in with runny noses, dirty bare
feet, and smelly stinky underwear or diapers?
How many children have current vaccinations? The list goes on and on.
Our pets are usually cleaner than a lot of people allow their children to be
when going to the market...and all you have to do is tell a dog no once,
ideally.
At LEAST pet owners (the responsible ones) would clean up after their
dog...if their child makes a doodie...the stocker gets the lovely job.
Just my .02
Kristi
"Lynn Kosmakos" <lkos...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3971127E...@home.com...
Kristi Howard
My bad! :-)
Kristi
"Kristi Howard" <akc...@nospam.email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:OAzVZTu7$GA.284@cpmsnbbsa09...
Lynn Kosmakos
Kristi Howard wrote:
>
> ***Per Lynn***"There is a difference between wanting your dog, and having
> your dog with you"....****
That's not what I said. See below.
> But, those like me who aren't "legally deaf" but have to wear 2 hearing aids
> can't have their dogs with them?
I feel rather strongly about this. Access for assistance dogs
was a hard fought victory. Abuse of that endangers the rights of
those who truly need their assistance. It is a much discussed
issue among those who have owner-trained assistance dogs, but most
people recognize the need for standards of certifiable need and
performance levels to protect that right.
> I personally think if a responsible person were to bring a dog into a
> supermarket...as long as they were prepared for accidents, etc...what would the problem be?
You honestly don't see this as a public health issue? Even more than
that, do you really think you have the right to impose the presence
of your dogs on those who do? As well as endangering the rights of
those who truly need the assistance of their dogs to be in that store?
I find that attitude incredibly selfish and self-centered.
Lynn K.
> "Lynn Kosmakos" <lkos...@home.com> wrote in message
No Body
wagon) to haul stuff or do running around. She's in a wheelchair, and has
the handicapped plates on her car.
Do I have the right to park in handicapped spots while using her car? You
bet I do...I have the plates. Do I? Nope.. I have been a passenger in my
friend's car driving around looking for a spot, while people double park in
front of two spots, or push their empty carts into the spots etc. etc. I can
walk, so I leave them open for people who really need them. Besides, I could
use the excercise.
As for service dogs in stores..my big problem is not being able to run up to
the dogs, arms outstretched, screaming "Awwww wook at the puppy-wuppy" and
rolling them over for a belly rub. Other than that..no problem at all. ;-)
Woofus
"Tina" <mookey...@cs.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20000715210712...@ng-cj1.news.cs.com...
> >Anita Ellertsen wrote:
> >>
> >> If a blind person can bring his or her dog with him whereever they need
to,
> >> any other person with a dog should be allowed to do the same thing.
> >
>
> Do you park in handicap parking without a permit ?
>
>
> Tina/mookeysmom
ZnCo
In a perfect world a responsible person could bring their well-trained dog
anywhere they wanted to, however in reality there are just too many people
that are not responsible. How would one determine who was responsible and
what dogs were trained before allowing them into the store? And how could
one justify such discrimination to indignant owners that insist that their
dogs are just as wonderful as any others. It's impossible. We all have
seen uncontrolled children running around making messes. Can you imagine
how these same people's dogs would behave?
Dogs have a lot more freedom in many parts of Europe, and I think that is
wonderful, and I wish that we had a more animal tolerant attitude here as
well, but there are just certain situations that are potentially disastrous
and harmful when opened up to the general pet owning public.
I think it is wonderful that your dog has picked up on your needs, dogs are
often very intuitive that way, but until your dog has been professionally
certified as a working dog, how can you guarantee that she will not bite
anyone, or act destructively otherwise? You may know her and know deep down
that she wouldn't, but would you honestly be able to take a stranger's word
in such a situation if someone were assuring you that their dog wouldn't
hurt your child, or store, or what ever they feel is threatened by your
dog's presence? That's why it is necessary to certify service dogs.
They're not pets. They may become part of their person's family, and bond
like any other dog, but when they're out and about they're working, not
socializing.
There are hearing dogs available. I have an aunt that has been deaf since
she was very young. She has a bone conducting hearing aid (or something to
that effect, I'm not positive what it exactly is or does) that allows her to
function pretty normally in that capacity, but she has also had hearing dogs
that have been invaluable to her. Have you looked into such programs? I
don't know the specifics or requirements, but it seems to me that if you
require a hearing aid in each ear, and depend on your dog's assistance, one
of these programs might be able to assist you. Maybe there is even a way of
having your dog certified as a hearing dog. As I said, I don't know enough
about the process, but it seems to me that it might warrant some
exploration. I agree with you that if your dog helps you then you should be
allowed to have her with you. However in this society boundaries are
necessary, otherwise the right could be lost for all those who truly need
it. "One bad apple..."(insert cliche of choice here).
Best of luck to you and your helpful girl,
Stephanie
"Kristi Howard" <akc...@nospam.email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:OAzVZTu7$GA.284@cpmsnbbsa09...
> ***Per Lynn***"There is a difference between wanting your dog, and having
> your dog with you"....****
>
> But, those like me who aren't "legally deaf" but have to wear 2 hearing
aids
> can't have their dogs with them?
>
> I think that is unfair, because my dog even tells me when the phone rings
at
> the house...and I could use her guidance to know someone is coming up on
me
> at the market.
>
> This dog is not trained to do this...she has picked up on my needs.
>
> I personally think if a responsible person were to bring a dog into a
> supermarket...as long as they were prepared for accidents, etc...what
would
> the problem be?
>
> Do children not bite or hit if threatened? Do they not pee on the floor
> when they have to go? Do they not come in with runny noses, dirty bare
> feet, and smelly stinky underwear or diapers?
>
> How many children have current vaccinations? The list goes on and on.
>
> Our pets are usually cleaner than a lot of people allow their children to
be
> when going to the market...and all you have to do is tell a dog no once,
> ideally.
>
> At LEAST pet owners (the responsible ones) would clean up after their
> dog...if their child makes a doodie...the stocker gets the lovely job.
>
> Just my .02
>
> Kristi
>
>
> "Lynn Kosmakos" <lkos...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:3971127E...@home.com...
> >
> >
> > ZnCo wrote:
> > >
> > > As much as I love my dog, and as well-behaved as he is, there are
> > > certain places he just doesn't belong. Allowing service dogs in
places
> > > other dogs aren't isn't hypocrisy.
> >
Lynn Kosmakos
ZnCo wrote:
> There are hearing dogs available.
Here's the site of the SFSPCA's hearing dog program:
http://www.sfspcahdp.org/
Lynn K.
BlueDogs
> I think that is unfair, because my dog even tells me when the phone rings
at
> the house...and I could use her guidance to know someone is coming up on
me
> at the market.
>
I know someone who wears two hearing aids just like yourself. She trained
her hearing dog herself and asked a hearing dog training center to help her
fully train her as a hearing dog and certify her. This is something you can
possibly look into.
>
> Do children not bite or hit if threatened? Do they not pee on the floor
> when they have to go? Do they not come in with runny noses, dirty bare
> feet, and smelly stinky underwear or diapers?
>
My kids don't. However I've come across people who are less than hygenic in
public and that is unfortunate. I've yet to see a child bite a passing
stranger or pee on the grocery store floor though......
> Our pets are usually cleaner than a lot of people allow their children to
be
> when going to the market...and all you have to do is tell a dog no once,
> ideally.
>
And unfortunately many pet owners do not properly care for their dogs, or
bother to train them, which is why it is such a potential health hazard.
> At LEAST pet owners (the responsible ones) would clean up after their
> dog...if their child makes a doodie...the stocker gets the lovely job.
>
And again unfortunately if all dogs were allowed in grocery stores there
would be irresponsible owners bringing their un-trained, flea ridden dogs in
the store. Service dogs are put through rigorous training, temperament
tested, and the owners are expected to maintain veterinary care and grooming
(proper health and nutrition, etc.) or the dog can be removed by the agency.
And again I've yet to see a child make a "doodie" in the grocery store
unless it's in their diaper. Perhaps the "local people" in your town need
some serious hygiene and proper social conduct lessons.
Just my .02
Anita Ellertsen
point here people.......it`s the why is it fair for anyone with a service
dog to bring it in if it`s creating problems for people with allergies or
just a fear of dogs??
Dogs or any animal should not be allowed into grocerystores, but just about
everywhere else is fine by me.
My point is that if one dog is allowed somewhere, whether it`s a service dog
or not, should have the same rights and obey by the same laws as the next.
And as far as handicapped people go, isn`t it the very idea for them to have
service dogs, that they can live their lives freely and be able to get
around like the rest of us? Well, then they should play by the same rules
too!
Oh by the way, one little story before I go.
My car broke down the other day, and had to take the bus to work.
I`m a vet, and that day I was taking my dog with me for his shots. Before
me, entering the bus was a blind man and his service dog. They entered the
bus, and as they passed a middleaged lady I heard her comment on how
wonderful these dogs were and everything. As I passed by her, and my dog is
very well behaved, I heard her go " Oh, I can`t believe they let dogs on the
bus, think of the all those germs, and the hair. Don`t they think of people
with allergies?"
Why the heck is it perfectly ok if it`s a service dog, but not any other
dog? A dog is a dog! I`d just like to say that I`m all for service dogs, my
fiancče is very active in raising the little pups that`s one day going to be
seying-eye dogs. Amazing dogs!
Ryan
Tina
For one handicap users have a" wallet card ID"
I know I have one, I have a placard and a tag ,it must be carried at all times
to prove you are with that auto.
so more is needed than the tag.
even if the tag is one, you must have the individual with you. I dont know if
this is all states but its in PA.
Tina
by the state now to go with handicap parking,, it stops people using the auto
from parking in spaces without the registered individual.
(if they get caught anyway)
>
>He probably does. His sort are the reason we need the Americans With
>Disabilities Act.
>Virginia Cleary
>Rihadin Kennels
>& The Crafty K9
>Phoenix, AZ
shootin...@webtv.net
leave there dog in the car. well i don't think that a lot of people do
this? but if the dog is not bothering anything such as licking the
meat lol- i really would not worry. i really think that you will not
have a allergy problem with the dog just passing through the store on a
rare occassion.. i would just go down another aisle and that should
solve the problem. it probably is against the law because of food
being there but i am sure if it got to be a big thing the store would
take action.-------------------- the dog really should have been left at
home ---but you know the SHOPPING CARTS have more germs on them then
any dog ever will. children are all over them with their hands and a
cold and super runny noses --------all over those carts. i really think
that children should be kept out of stores that can't keep their hands
off products with all those germs. i really hate to use the carts but
have no choice. this is just part of life. i would take the dog any
day!! can't get a 2 to 3 weeks of a chest cold and loss of sleep from
a dog. if you sneeze a little--so what- it is only temporary not 2 to
3 weeks of sheer discomfort with a chest cold. so maybe this will
help if you think of it this way. the child with the cold verses the dog
who will really jjust be passing through. hope this will help you
not worry.
The Carrolls
>For one handicap users have a" wallet card ID"
> I know I have one, I have a placard and a tag ,it must be carried at all
times
>to prove you are with that auto.
>so more is needed than the tag.
>even if the tag is one, you must have the individual with you. I dont know
if
>this is all states but its in PA.
>
Here in Michigan you're suppossed to, but most places they don't bother to
check.
~Emily
The Carrolls
Anita Ellertsen wrote in message ...
>point here people.......it`s the why is it fair for anyone with a service
>dog to bring it in if it`s creating problems for people with allergies or
>just a fear of dogs??
Because that person can not navigate the store without the dog.
The person with allergies CAN navigate the store with it. The person with
the fear of dogs CAN navigate the store with it. You're acting like the
person with the fear of dogs/allergies is going to huddle in a corner until
the dog leaves. It's perfectly possible for the dog and person to be in
different aisles and on other sides of the store.
>My point is that if one dog is allowed somewhere, whether it`s a service
dog
>or not, should have the same rights and obey by the same laws as the next.
>And as far as handicapped people go, isn`t it the very idea for them to
have
>service dogs, that they can live their lives freely and be able to get
>around like the rest of us? Well, then they should play by the same rules
>too!
So do you feel that wheelchairs should also be disallowed because the
grocery store aisles aren't wide enough for both a wheelchair and a cart?
Heck, why don't we just make them step up instead of having the ramp as
well. I have to do that, why can't they. Oh, and let's make my old Gram
who can hardly walk walk all the way from the back of the lot to the store.
The rest of us have to do that.
Many "handicapped" people have been functioning members of society for
longer than either of us has been alive. Many of them have been doing the
same as we have for decades. Time has caught up with many of them, and they
can't do everything they used to.
>Why the heck is it perfectly ok if it`s a service dog, but not any other
>dog? A dog is a dog! I`d just like to say that I`m all for service dogs, my
>fiancče is very active in raising the little pups that`s one day going to
be
>seying-eye dogs. Amazing dogs!
Because the dog isn't really a dog under those situations--it's like a
crutch or wheelchair or white stick thingy. It's not a pet, it's a piece of
equipment when it's working.
~Emily
The Carrolls
everyone should be able to, without limitations on their behavior.
Do YOU want to be in a supermarket with Rex the untrained, aggressive Rott?
I'd much rather deal with unruly children than an unruly dog. Especially
around my food.
~Emily
>
>But, those like me who aren't "legally deaf" but have to wear 2 hearing
aids
>can't have their dogs with them?
>
>I think that is unfair, because my dog even tells me when the phone rings
at
>the house...and I could use her guidance to know someone is coming up on me
>at the market.
>
>This dog is not trained to do this...she has picked up on my needs.
>
>I personally think if a responsible person were to bring a dog into a
>supermarket...as long as they were prepared for accidents, etc...what would
>the problem be?
>
>Do children not bite or hit if threatened? Do they not pee on the floor
>when they have to go? Do they not come in with runny noses, dirty bare
>feet, and smelly stinky underwear or diapers?
>
>How many children have current vaccinations? The list goes on and on.
>
>Our pets are usually cleaner than a lot of people allow their children to
be
>when going to the market...and all you have to do is tell a dog no once,
>ideally.
>
>At LEAST pet owners (the responsible ones) would clean up after their
>dog...if their child makes a doodie...the stocker gets the lovely job.
>
Wolfkazzy
>everywhere else is fine by me.
>
Someone alerted me to this thread going on and I'm generally a lurker here.
First off this is getting a little ridiculous about grocery stores. I'm deaf
and I have an assistance dog, Honey. She's a German Shepherd. We have gone in
a million grocery stores by now. NEVER had there once been a complaint about
allergies. I've never seen anyone sneezing about...secondly, a grocery store is
big enough that if someone DOES have allergies, they can walk off away from us.
That's pure common sense, the next common sense is having a dog that would
alert me to things going around me. Most people think that a service dog just
sits there and does nothing. Absolutely not. Deaf people rely on body
language..as it is a part of their language..sign language. And it's easier for
most deaf with an affinity for dogs to read the dog's body language. It lets
them know if someone is behind them, someone is trying to talk to them.
And it was in a large grocery store where Honey saved my life or from a very
bad accident! This was a wharehouse type of grocery store where there was a
forklift driver backing up so fast and Honey did the "wraparound" technique.
Instead of lunging forward which most dog's first instinct is to do...she
backed up towards the forklift and darted around my back onto my right side,
spinning me around since I have the leash in my left hand. That enable me to
SEE what I could not hear..and we got the heck out of that aisle. And that guy
was NOT looking behind him!
Sorry, Andy, Ryan whoever...I'm taking my dog with me into grocery stores
period.
Kathy and Honey, the wonder Hearing Dog
(putting the lurking cloak back on)
Wolfkazzy
>>If a blind person can bring his or her dog with him whereever they need to,
>>ones with servicedogs should abide by the rules the rest of us has to
>>follow!!
>
I didn't know who the heck I had to talk to find out which gate I should be at.
Hearing people can listen and hear the anouncer saying such and such. (I really
have no idea what's really said, just that I've been informed that the speakers
let them know which flight is which). Honey with her bright orange vest
imediately identifies me as someone who may need help. The airport people are
so nice, they come up to me and ask me if everything is okay, do I need help?
I show them my ticket and they get someone on the ball and get me and my dog to
the next gate.
Another point...in a grocery store..what if there was a hold up? what if there
was a fire? I would be oblivious to it! Yeah sure I can people running for the
exit, but what if I was so engross into the movie videos, reading the back of
the labels that I had my back to the entire store???? Honey would alert me to
something strange going on.
Oh yeah she gets a bath more often than most humans :)
Kathy
shelly
<ani...@frisurf.no> wrote:
>And as far as handicapped people go, isn`t it the very idea for them to have
>service dogs, that they can live their lives freely and be able to get
>around like the rest of us?
but they *can't* live their lives freely and get around like
the rest of us *without* the dogs. that's the whole
*point*. so, people with service dogs should have equal
access except for grocery shopping?
keeping service dogs out of grocery stores isn't going to
keep people who are allergic to and who fear dogs from
coming into contact with them. for the zillion regular dogs
i see out in public every day, i have probably seen 2-3
service dogs in the grocery store. there are dogs
*everywhere*. if someone is so allergic to them or so
afraid of them that s/he can't be in the presence of dogs,
then seeing a service dog in the grocery store is the least
of his/her problems.
John F Richardson
:Yes, but if one person is allowed to
:bring their non-service dog in, then
:everyone should be able to, without
:limitations on their behavior.
Why "without limitations on their behavior"?
JohnR
Pit Bull Libertarian
Never sneer at the power of a little
pink squeaky toy!
Shelly
"shelly" <scouv...@SPAMALOPEhome.com> wrote in message
news:ek92ns8ukp7jvfchp...@4ax.com...
> >allow her dog to stay. As naive as I am to MS, and to other forms of
> >disabilities for that matter, if someone has proper ID, they should be
> >allowed to live a "normal" life, and welcome to do so.
> >Shelly, Coda & Guiness....
>
> surprisingly, was no dogs allowed. *however*, if someone
> *did* bring a dog in, we were to ask if it was a service
> dog. if it was, then that was the end of the conversation.
> we were not allowed to enquire further about either permits
> for the dog or the type of disability the person had.
>
> i hope the woman never went back to that restaurant again!
>
> http://members.home.net/scouvrette/index/
> remove SPAMALOPE for e-mail
Actually, if I remember correctly, she was currently in discussions w/ both
the ADA & a lawyer over the matter. From the way she described it, it was
quite an ordeal. I know very little of the matter, other than her side of
it, but if that had been me, I'd be searching options as well.
The cool thing I learned that day, however, was that really there are MANY
different breeds/mixes of dogs that make wonderful assistance dogs. The
breeder that was holding the event is a very reputable Collie breeder, not
just in the NW, but I believe nationwide. They also help design harnesses
& other merchandise for assistance for Collies, rough & smooth coated.
Of course, I *knew* Collies were herding dogs originally, but I had never
actually SEEN one working until that day also. What a sight! *smile* I
love seeing a beautiful dog "working", doing what it was originally
meant/bred to do!
Shelly, Coda (wish I coulda been there!) & Guiness....
Tracy Klein
condition in the back of the store where they package the meat and veggies.
makes me gag to think about it.
Tracy
Damn the torpedoes...full speed ahead!!
"Andy" <m_lev...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ZF8c5.29425$09.3...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> I think that maybe store managers and other personnel are afraid to
confront
> customers about these kinds of things, (bringing in animals, not wearing
> shoes or socks, not wearing a shirt, etc.). They don't want to lose the
> business of those customers. However, they don't realize that they may
lose
> the business of others shopping who see these things and don't like it.
>
>
>
Bill W
Assuming that your post is serious, I will reply in a serious manner.
The "right" for a service dog to enter does not belong to the dog.
The "right" is to the person. The dog is like a wheelchair, or any
other tool that allows a handicapped person some the abilities that
people without the handicap have.
The service dog has no rights when not with their handicapped handler
(some exceptions for service dogs in training).
The store owner and other patrons also have the right to expect the
service dog to be clean and well behaved. If the dog it not, the
store is perfectly within its rights to ask dog and handler to leave.
In fact the dog must meet higher behavior and cleanliness standards
that the people in the store.
To compare someone with allergies to a wheelchair bound person is a
bit of a stretch in my opinion. The allergy sufferer can most likely
stay an aisle or two away from the service dog and still buy
groceries. Denial of the service dog means that the wheelchair bound
person cannot.
If allergies are so severe that a clean dog anywhere in the grocery
would cause a problem, I suggest that there would be other odors,
molds, and substances that would cause reactions as well.
Bill W, defending the service dog owner.
"Anita Ellertsen" <ani...@frisurf.no> wrote:
>This is interesting because on one hand you have people with allergies and
>those who are afraid of dogs...and their rights. THEN there`s the blind and
>the people with other dissabilities, and their rights.
>So, for anyone with some kind of service dog it`s ok to bring the dog with
>them anywhere, including grocery stores ( which I think is a bit too much ),
>to the discomfort of the allergy people BUT it`s not ok for the rest of
>us???
>That`s so ridiculous!!!
>If a blind person can bring his or her dog with him whereever they need to,
>any other person with a dog should be allowed to do the same thing. OR the
>ones with servicedogs should abide by the rules the rest of us has to
>follow!!
>Ryan
Bill W
much snipped
>Why the heck is it perfectly ok if it`s a service dog, but not any other
>dog?
>Ryan
What you are missing is that the "ok" belongs to the person, not the
dog. It is not "ok" for a service dog to be in a "dogs not allowed"
place unless it is working or in training. The service dog not
working has no greater or lesser rights than any other dog.
Bill W
Bill W
I know a lady whose service dog carries the copies of applicable
federal and state statutes in a zippered pouch on her service dog's
vest. When she is denied entrance (thankfully less common than it
used to be) she asks for the manager and produces the documents. That
normally works. If she is still denied, (unfortunately it still
happens sometimes) she simply moves outside and calls the police on
her wireless phone. When they arrive, she once again produces the
documentation and lodges a complaint against the establishment.
Since this is a criminal offense rather than a civil matter, the
police usually issue a citation. At least once, they arrested the
owner and took him to the police station.
She then goes home and cries herself to sleep.
Bill W.
>And, not just the blind...
>And, for that matter, not just the "recognizable" service dogs (GSDs, Labs,
>Goldens).
>While attending a herding trial last summer, I met a woman with MS. She
>cannot walk/do many functions without the aid and support
>(literally--physically) of her dog. This happened to be at a Collie
>breeders kennel/home, and the event was sponsored by CCA. She told me a
>story about once when she was out with her husband, and a small group of
>friends, and of course, her gorgeous rough-coated, merle Collie name Angel
>(I think), first the waiter informed her that she cannot bring her dog
>inside (it was a casual place, along the lines of a Red Robin or an
>Applebees). She told them it was a service dog, and showed them a piece of
>identification. The manager came out & began to make a fuss. "Collie's
>are not service dogs, and you're neither blind, nor deaf", he proceeded to
>inform her.
>Eeesh...well, ugly as the scene was. She eventually persuaded them to
>allow her dog to stay. As naive as I am to MS, and to other forms of
>disabilities for that matter, if someone has proper ID, they should be
>allowed to live a "normal" life, and welcome to do so.
>Shelly, Coda & Guiness....
>"Lynn Kosmakos" <lkos...@home.com> wrote in message
>news:39710695...@home.com...
>>
>>
>> Anita Ellertsen wrote:
>> >
>> > If a blind person can bring his or her dog with him whereever they need
>to,
>> > any other person with a dog should be allowed to do the same thing.
>>
shelly
<shel...@uswest.net> wrote:
>The cool thing I learned that day, however, was that really there are MANY
>different breeds/mixes of dogs that make wonderful assistance dogs.
yep. there are many types of assistance dogs--everything
from guide dogs for the blind to seizure alert dogs. they
also come in every canine shape and size. i think people
assume that the only assistance dogs are the ubiquitous lab
guide dogs.
a little bit off the original topic... i work on a
university campus, so it may be that i see a higher
percentage of people with assistance dogs??? it seems like
they're *everywhere* i look. personally, i love watching
them work. i've also noted an increase in GSDs. it seems
like for awhile there, the only assistance dogs i saw were
labs. the other day, i even saw a (gorgeous!) boxer working
with someone in a wheelchair!
Nic
> LOL...I meant IMMUNIZATIONS...NOT vaccinations! LOLOLOLOLOL
>
> My bad! :-)
>
> Kristi
OK, for somebody without kids, what's the difference?
Nic, Brando the APBT, Buster the Pug, Tommy the Cat, Phil the Corn Snake
http://www.teleport.com/~pitbull
Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me, for I
may not follow. Do not walk beside me, either. Just leave me the hell alone.
Nic
"ZnCo" <sami...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:3ycc5.8182$lS2.1...@typhoon.we.rr.com...
> Dogs have a lot more freedom in many parts of Europe, and I think that is
> wonderful, and I wish that we had a more animal tolerant attitude here as
> well, but there are just certain situations that are potentially
disastrous
> and harmful when opened up to the general pet owning public.
Animal tolerant? In several of those countries my breed is banned, as well
as dozens of others. I'd rather be able to HAVE my dog and not be able to
take him to the grocery store :^)
Nic
"The Carrolls" <car...@dundee.net> wrote in message
news:aqic5.5740$I76.4...@monger.newsread.com...
> I'd much rather deal with unruly children than an unruly dog. Especially
> around my food.
You know, I'm just the opposite :^) Maybe it comes from working for a vet
for 4 years. A dog can do whatever, but EWWW!! Kids can be GROSS!! LOL
Nic, not a mom, and probably will never be :^)
Lynn Kosmakos
Anita Ellertsen wrote:
>
> it`s the why is it fair for anyone with a service
> dog to bring it in if it`s creating problems for people with allergies > or just a fear of dogs??
Because the right of access for the disabled was judged to outweigh
the rights of those who don't want to be around dogs.
> My point is that if one dog is allowed somewhere, whether it`s a service dog
> or not, should have the same rights and obey by the same laws
It's not about the dog's rights, or even dog owners' rights. It's
about the rights of those people with disabilities. Enabling them
to have the same access to necessary services is far more important
than any pet owner's issues.
Lynn K.
Dire_ Wolf
>I've seen some people bring their dogs into grocery stores.
Really?? And what store was this?? Why are you complaining
about dogs while ignoring the people who put their kids, with
dirty diapers, in shopping carts?
> First of all, it's a place where food is stored.
Good point!! Thanks for bringing that to our attention.
The Carrolls
John F Richardson wrote in message
<20000716094540...@ng-fu1.aol.com>...
>~Emily writes:
>
>:Yes, but if one person is allowed to
>:bring their non-service dog in, then
>:everyone should be able to, without
>:limitations on their behavior.
>
>Why "without limitations on their behavior"?
Who's going to judge a dog's behavior? Is the grocery store going to have
to hire someone to check paperwork on each dog entering the store? Should
the Gov't now sponsor events where the dogs are evaluated on their behavior
so that they can enter stores?
Nope...if the stores are open to one non-service dog, then they'll have to
be open to all of them. The Government has enough trouble keeping track of
paperwork (shall I tell the story of a dog I pulled from a pound?) for
liscenses, don't even get them started on performance events, of sorts.
~Emily
The Carrolls
>Yeah right..what about that time at the airport when I had to switch planes
and
>I didn't know who the heck I had to talk to find out which gate I should be
at.
>Hearing people can listen and hear the anouncer saying such and such. (I
really
>have no idea what's really said, just that I've been informed that the
speakers
>let them know which flight is which). Honey with her bright orange vest
>imediately identifies me as someone who may need help. The airport people
are
>so nice, they come up to me and ask me if everything is okay, do I need
help?
>I show them my ticket and they get someone on the ball and get me and my
dog to
>the next gate.
It seems to me that there should be a way that a passenger on a
flight/train/bus/etc. should be able to check a box or whatever that alerts
the crew in the airport AND on the plane/etc. that there is an individual
that will need to be informed directly. Like when you get to the airport,
you check in with the crew at the gate and let them know who you are and
where you are. (Regardless of whether or not you've got your dog with you).
~Emily
Testarossa
breath every time I passed someone who had been smoking or who is wearing
perfume, or whenever I pass a candle or flower shop in the mall. All of
these things have caused serious problems for me. But would I ask those
people to give up smoking and wearing perfume, and ask shop owners to close
their shops up because I am allergic to their goods? Of course not, since I
am in the minority I just hold my breath and keep walking. They have a
right to do these things just as I have a right to not shop there. Idon't
think allergies should be the issue here, but sanity around food should be.
Luckily, service dogs are always very well trained and kept very clean, and
there is no more problem with them being in the store than a wheelchair.
Let those who have allergies move away to avoid the dogs and let them be
glad that they are lucky enough to only have allergies.
Nancy Holmes or Nelson Ruffin <fmka...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:8kqsda$i37$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
> Dear Andy
> I hope you left your cigarettes and perfume outdoors every time you shop
and
> that you never ever have to shop in a store where there are scented
candles,
> perfumed toiletpaper and flowers scattered lurking all over the store
right
> on the aisles where people need to buy items.
> I wish people brought their dogs in the stores instead of their bratty
> screaming children who poke holes in every meat package because they are
> bored with the same fingers they stick up their snotty noses.
> Nancy
> Andy <m_lev...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:L_5c5.40774$T%3.38...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> > I've seen some people bring their dogs into grocery stores. People,
this
> is
> > nasty. First of all, it's a place where food is stored. Secondly,
think
> > about those who may have allergies to your dog. People shouldn't have
> > allergic reactions to your dog when they go shopping for food.
> >
> > I've never even seen a blind person bring a seeing-eye dog into a
grocery
> > store. The blind have more respect than most other people do.
> >
> > I've seen a dog sitting in a car, with the engine running, (I assumed so
> the
> > air conditioner could keep the dog cool) when their owner was shopping
for
> > groceries. This is perfectly ok. The dog doesn't have to burn up and
it
> > stays outside. The dog that I saw was pretty big, so someone would have
> to
> > be brave or insane to try to mess with the car...like try to steal it.
> >
> > I like dogs and cats, but we should be aware of those who have allergies
> to
> > these animals. They don't belong in a grocery store...even if you're
> > holding the dog the whole time.
> >
> > Peace.
> >
> >
>
>
canonwren
The issue of dog access alone is a separate one. I find it sad
that many folks have just to see a dog hair and they think of
disease. The sight of a dog sends them into a cycle of terror.
Sorry, people share the planet, and should learn more logical
behavior. I wish that it was okay for some eating establishments
to allow dogs in the dining/but not kitchen areas. Remember the
sign (I reserve the right not to serve...etc.) Any misbehaving
animal's owner could be asked to leave. Dogs are allowed in
restaurants in Europe and I haven't heard of anyone dying from a
stray dog hair yet. Okay some folks are allergic, I'm sure not
all establishments would allow animals even given the option. It
would sure be nice when traveling to take "rover" with you a few
more places.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
John F Richardson
>:Yes, but if one person is allowed to
>:bring their non-service dog in, then
>:everyone should be able to, without
>:limitations on their behavior.
I queried:
>Why "without limitations on their behavior"?
~e again:
:Who's going to judge a dog's behavior?
The person in whose power it is to throw
the dog and its owner out. To suggest that
anyone who lets in any non-service dog
somehow forfeits the right to refuse
entry to an unruly dog or throw an unruly
dog out of their establishment strikes me
as a real stretch.
Lori
the owner have to pay for an extra seat to compensate for the space of a
dog? Is there a special area that service dogs and their owners have to
sit? I don't fly much and I've never had the pleasure of seeing a
service dog on a flight. What if a passenger has an allergy to dogs and
throws them into an asthma attack? (I have that type of allergy to cats)
For the record, I feel that service dogs must be allowed to go anywhere
their owner goes.
Wilo Pups~~Huge list of dog links, check it out!
http://community.webtv.net/silkypup/WiloPups
Help the Lawrence Co Humane Society! Go to
http://www.4goodnesssake.org/ and click for FREE
Shelly
"shelly" <scouv...@SPAMALOPEhome.com> wrote in message
Yes, when I went to college, there were several people w/ assistance dogs
there. One in a psych course, a man who had an aged GSD, he'd told me that
he's had him for nearly 10 years! And 2 in my sign-language course, one
with a standard black poodle, and the other with a yellow lab.
My husband & I have a "seeing-eye dog" flunky. She went thru the training
before we obtained her, with some friends of mine. She flunked out shortly
before the "finals" (I'm not sure what they're called?) because she has a
tendancy to wander--not a good trait for a blind assistance dog! She's
about THE most well-behaved dog I've ever been around. The only problem w/
that is my husband (She was "his" dog, before we were married--for 5+yrs)
uses her excellent behavior against my pup--who, after all is a puppy!
"Guiness would NEVER do that!", he says. I just roll my eyes, he has no
idea how much work went into her before he got her! *laugh*
Yippee for working dogs everywhere!!
Shelly, Coda & Guiness
Bruce M. Thompson
This has got to be one of the longest threads I have ever seen in a
newsgroup. I think you have opened up a can of worms.
By the way, what would a blind person with a seeing-eye dog do once inside
of a grocery store? Things just aren't as personal as in the days of the Mom
& Pop markets where you could get some help. It's much easier to have
someone else do that shopping for them.
--
Bruce M. Thompson
bthmpson@big_NOSPAM_foot.com
Testarossa
under the seat in front. I guess it's the responsibility of those who are
deathly allergic to dogs to ask ahead of time if dogs will be allowed on the
flight.
Lori <silk...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:8379-397...@storefull-245.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Wolfkazzy
>the owner have to pay for an extra seat to compensate for the space of a
>dog? Is there a special area that service dogs and their owners have to
>sit?
Yes they are allowed to be in the cabin. And usually the seating is the area
right behind the first class where there is alot of room between the wall and
the seats. That is where Honey laid on the floor during our flight to Atlanta,
Ga and back.
Kathy and Honey
Kristi Howard
> > I personally think if a responsible person were to bring a dog into a
> > supermarket...as long as they were prepared for accidents, etc...what
would the problem be?
>
> You honestly don't see this as a public health issue? Even more than
> that, do you really think you have the right to impose the presence
> of your dogs on those who do? As well as endangering the rights of
> those who truly need the assistance of their dogs to be in that store?
> I find that attitude incredibly selfish and self-centered.
>
> Lynn K.
Lynn...
I honestly do not see where you would feel that my attitude would be
"incredibly selfish and self-centered".
Let me expand on this issue just a little bit more.
I see more of a public health issue in mothers bringing their sick children
to the store, who let the kids fondle the bananas after picking their nose.
Or, how about the people who let their kids take food off a buffet and
handle it with their hands and put it back? OR even put their hands in the
candy offering on the buffet? I've even seen adults do this!
OR, if we're talking about rights...how about the poor unsuspecting pregnant
woman who is exposed to children with measles and chicken pox at the grocery
store? That's a BIG imposition.
How about the hepatitis outbreaks we are all suceptible to in the fast food
environment?
At least most dog diseases, if not all (I'm not *totally* versed on canine
diseases), are not transmittable to humans.
Heck, it'd be safer to bring your dog than a child, in my opinion.
And, where would it endanger the rights of those who need assistance dogs in
the store if I brought my dog in the store?
Like I said previously...I am not "legally deaf" but require 2 hearing aids
to function at a sub-normal hearing level.
Where does anyone get the right to say "you've got to be this deaf in order
to have your animal with you, or shop alone".
I could be mugged in the 2 seconds my pup could've acknowledged a person
coming toward me.
But, I'm not deaf enough to have her assistance.
See the catch 22?
Kristi
BTW: I'm not trying to start an argument or flame...it's just this has been
a big issue with me for awhile.
Sorry if it seems I'm frustrated...it's not my intention to start a war...
:-)
If you want to e-mail me rather than post, if you want to discuss further,
go for it...it's akc...@msn.com
BlueDogs
Bruce M. Thompson <NO~SPAM_b...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:FQoc5.1754$Y91.2...@newshog.newsread.com...
> Andy:
>
> This has got to be one of the longest threads I have ever seen in a
> newsgroup. I think you have opened up a can of worms.
>
Then you are a newbie here. This thread is still relatively short. When it
starts hitting 450+ posts, THEN it's a long thread.
> By the way, what would a blind person with a seeing-eye dog do once inside
> of a grocery store? Things just aren't as personal as in the days of the
Mom
> & Pop markets where you could get some help. It's much easier to have
> someone else do that shopping for them.
> --
> Bruce M. Thompson
> bthmpson@big_NOSPAM_foot.com
>
You're kidding, right?
--
~Darlene Molina~
Official ArfKids WebWiz
"A Rinty for Kids"
Providing service dogs
to disabled children.
http://www.arfkids.com
Web...@arfkids.com
Nico's Mommy
Anita Ellertsen wrote:
> So, for anyone with some kind of service dog it`s ok to bring the dog with
> them anywhere, including grocery stores ( which I think is a bit too much ),
> to the discomfort of the allergy people BUT it`s not ok for the rest of
> us???
>
> That`s so ridiculous!!!
> If a blind person can bring his or her dog with him whereever they need to,
> any other person with a dog should be allowed to do the same thing. OR the
> ones with servicedogs should abide by the rules the rest of us has to
> follow!!
Gee... someone is in a trollish mood.
As a person with a service dog I can speak for multitudes when I say too
bad!!!!! My dog allows me to live a better and more normal life. I need him,
and though you may not like it, I will continue to bring him places where I
need him.
--
, ,
{ \w/ }
__ `>!<`
,. ," ,`-o (/^\)
(_( ( | _,' ' '
\ `-' `-' (__ Tobi~Dawne
( O `--.' artist
/) .__,`--~'prairi...@home.com
(( (
`'''http://members.home.net/prairie-lily/
Furkids -- http://www.geocities.com/furkidsrescue/
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
"The dreams of childhood... so good to be believed in once,
so good to be remembered when outgrown" -- Charles Dickens
Nico's Mommy
Kristi Howard wrote:
> Like I said previously...I am not "legally deaf" but require 2 hearing aids
> to function at a sub-normal hearing level.
It must mean different things where you are and where I am to be "legally
deaf". My little sister is considered legally deaf, but she can hear with
hearing aids (just not well). You don't need to have NO hearing ability to be
legally deaf here.
Nico's Mommy
BlueDogs wrote:
> I've yet to see a child bite a passing
> stranger or pee on the grocery store floor though......
I've seen a child bite someone who was walking by, but have yet to see a dog
pee on a store floor.
Nico's Mommy
Nic wrote:
> > I'd much rather deal with unruly children than an unruly dog. Especially
> > around my food.
>
> You know, I'm just the opposite :^) Maybe it comes from working for a vet
> for 4 years. A dog can do whatever, but EWWW!! Kids can be GROSS!! LOL
I couldn't agree more! Yuck, yuck, yuck!!!!!
Nico's Mommy
Bill W wrote:
> She then goes home and cries herself to sleep.
I know that feeling. There is almost nothing worse then having to go through
hell just because you suffer from a disability. You have to deal with all sorts
of pain and torment privately, you don't want to have to deal with things like
that publicly too.
Bruce M. Thompson
Kidding? About which part. Did I put my foot in my mouth?
--
Bruce M. Thompson
bthmpson@big_NOSPAM_foot.com
"BlueDogs" <blue...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:sn4eiu9...@corp.supernews.com...
Kristi Howard
Why let a disability take away your independence?
That, combined with a dog help you overcome hurdles.
Kristi
"Bruce M. Thompson" <NO~SPAM_b...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:FQoc5.1754$Y91.2...@newshog.newsread.com...
> By the way, what would a blind person with a seeing-eye dog do once inside
> of a grocery store? Things just aren't as personal as in the days of the
Mom
> & Pop markets where you could get some help. It's much easier to have
> someone else do that shopping for them.
> --
> Bruce M. Thompson
> bthmpson@big_NOSPAM_foot.com
>
>
BlueDogs
> Yes, I'm a newbie. Nice to meet you.
>
> Kidding? About which part. Did I put my foot in my mouth?
> --
Nice to meet you too Bruce. :) I was referring to the sentence,
<quote> By the way, what would a blind person with a seeing-eye dog do once
inside
of a grocery store? </quote>
There is a blind lady who often is seen navigating the huge Wal mart in our
area all by herself. Along with her trusty seeing eye dog that is. What do
they do once inside a store? Why they shop of course! Just like everybody
else. :) And if other people would do as I do and instruct my children that
if they ever see a service dog it is inappropriate behavior to distract the
dog while working, she'll get along just fine. If she needs help I'm sure
she'll ask someone to find her a clerk. Just as I do when I can't find
something I need in the store. :)
Nancy Holmes or Nelson Ruffin
someone who pulled a fit because from the moment I came on she was not
breathing right - *she* blamed it on the woman who boarded with a parakeet
who sat behind us even though she said birds never bothered her before *I*
wondered if the dander from 16 dogs and two cats that was probably lurking
on my (clean but even so I hugged the dogs before I left) clothes! Not
having the dog's on board means nothing in terms of the dog dander being on
board!
Nancy
Melanie L Chang <mlc...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:8kt91a$pon$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
> Testarossa (Testa...@cheerful.com) wrote:
> : Small dogs are usually allowed in the cabin as well if their carrier can
fit
> : under the seat in front. I guess it's the responsibility of those who
are
> : deathly allergic to dogs to ask ahead of time if dogs will be allowed on
the
> : flight.
>
> in one case my seatmate did not know she was there until the middle of
> the flight, when I leaned down to give her some water, even though she'd
> been smiling up at me through the door of her Sherpa bag the entire time.
>
> I think that it is impossible to protect everyone in a public place from
> every possible allergen. For example, I have pollen allergies and have
> had bad reactions to flower arrangements on restaurant tables and once at
> a wedding reception. I brought some Sudafed and kleenexes and dealt with
> it, even though I was pink and weepy and looked ridiculous. If my
> allergies were life-threatening, then if would behoove me to behave
> defensively and always check about things first because I cannot expect
> the entire world to cater to my specific needs. Even if it should, I
> know that it won't.
>
> I'll go for banning in-cabin animals when every other possible allergen
> is also banned -- perfume, cigarette smoke (meaning no smokers should be
> allowed on flights unless they wear brand-new, unsmoked-in clothes),
> peanuts, dry-cleaned clothing, etc., etc. It really bothers me when
> people invoke allergies as an excuse to exclude animals from public
> places, because the excuse is applied selectively.
>
> As for service animals, they are allowed to lie in front of the seat row
> and I believe they fly for free. Owners of other small animals have to
> pay (usually $50 each way), another thing that burns my britches since
> brats -- er, I mean, toddlers -- who can sit on their parents' laps are
> allowed to fly for free. What usually happens is that they spend little
> of the flight in anyone's lap, instead charging up and down the aisles,
> screaming, climbing under and/or kicking the back of my chair, puking,
> and making messes. Meanwhile, my quiet little dog is down there minding
> her own business. I'd rather fly in a plane full of little dogs than
> full of little kids.
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Melanie Lee Chang | Repetition is the death
> Departments of Anthropology and Biology | of art.
> University of Pennsylvania |
> mlc...@sas.upenn.edu | -- Chris Stevens
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shelly
Wal-Mart before...(Sadly, usually after warning the parent in some way only
to be brushed off..)
Work in one for 7+ years...you see *alot* of nasty things people do, adults
& children alike! *ick*
(Not to mention women "sneaking" their teeny dogs in under their coats,
while all the big dogs hafta stay outside)
Shelly, Coda & Guiness...
"Nico's Mommy" <prairi...@home.com> wrote in message
news:39723FCF...@home.com...
>
>
> BlueDogs wrote:
>
> > I've yet to see a child bite a passing
> > stranger or pee on the grocery store floor though......
>
> I've seen a child bite someone who was walking by, but have yet to see a
dog
> pee on a store floor.
>
Lynn Kosmakos
Lori wrote:
>
> Got a question. Do the airlines allow service dogs in the cabin?
Yes. They must stay on the floor in front of the passenger's feet.
The same thing applies to search and law enforcement dogs. All
may ride in the cabin if they are on active duty. For search dogs,
that means prior arrangement with the airline, passenger in uniform,
and documentation of an active mission. Policies on search and
law enforcement dogs vary a bit with airline, but assistance dogs
are covered under ADA.
Lynn K.
Bruce M. Thompson
I was referring only to places like supermarkets where common courtesy is
hard to find, as are the clerks. I fully support the independence of anyone,
with or without a disability, and I am a lifetime dog lover.
--
Bruce M. Thompson
bthmpson@big_NOSPAM_foot.com
"Kristi Howard" <akc...@nospam.email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:euXcDH47$GA.284@cpmsnbbsa09...
> Other senses do take over, you know.
>
> Why let a disability take away your independence?
>
> That, combined with a dog help you overcome hurdles.
>
> Kristi
>
>
> "Bruce M. Thompson" <NO~SPAM_b...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:FQoc5.1754$Y91.2...@newshog.newsread.com...
> > By the way, what would a blind person with a seeing-eye dog do once
inside
Lynn Kosmakos
Kristi Howard wrote:
> I see more of a public health issue in mothers bringing their sick children
> to the store, who let the kids fondle the bananas after picking their nose.
It is not realistic to expect children to be banned from grocery
stores. That, however, is no justification for allowing dogs. The
issues simply aren't related. The real question is whether allowing
all dogs access would increase the public health risk. There's no
denying that it would, and there's no necessity to do so, so it has
very little likelyhood of happening.
> And, where would it endanger the rights of those who need assistance dogs in
> the store if I brought my dog in the store?
You spoke about it being okay if people cleaned up after dogs
that messed in a store. That's not okay in my book and I suspect
it sure wouldn't be okay for most people. It's not going to happen
with an assistance dog. And that's where the problem is. There's
a standard of acceptable behavior for assistance dogs that is much
higher than that of the general public. (I have to admit that I'm
appalled by some of the things I see people let their dogs do in
PetSmart, Home Depot, or in front of Starbucks.) Opening the door
to a lower standard has the risk of increasing public offense to all
dogs in public places, thereby endangering the rights of those who
need assistance dogs for access.
> Where does anyone get the right to say "you've got to be this deaf in > order to have your animal with you, or shop alone".
The question is, Can you function without the services of a trained
hearing dog? If the answer is no, then you have a right to have the
assistance of a trained dog to perform functions you cannot perform
alone.
Lynn K.
Baloo
"Melanie L Chang" <mlc...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:8kt91a$pon$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
> Testarossa (Testa...@cheerful.com) wrote:
> As for service animals, they are allowed to lie in front of the seat row
> and I believe they fly for free. Owners of other small animals have to
> pay (usually $50 each way), another thing that burns my britches since
> brats -- er, I mean, toddlers -- who can sit on their parents' laps are
> allowed to fly for free.
Actually, I'd read that there's a new policy stating that each child must
have a separate seat. I believe this applies even for small babies in
carriers. Anyone else heard this?
>I'd rather fly in a plane full of little dogs than
> full of little kids.
Completely agree with you there. And, for the record, my child will NEVER
be allowed to behave in that manner.
Amber
Baloo
inside
> > of a grocery store? Things just aren't as personal as in the days of the
> Mom
> > & Pop markets where you could get some help. It's much easier to have
> > someone else do that shopping for them.
> > --
> > Bruce M. Thompson
> > bthmpson@big_NOSPAM_foot.com
> >
>
>
>
While I don't necessarily agree with that sentiment, it does bring up a
question that's been popping around in my head. Forgive my ignorance, but
how, exactly, *do* blind folks grocery shop? Service dog or no, how would
they manage to gather the proper products without help from another human
being?
Amber
Bruce M. Thompson
I agree. And I have had occasion to seek the assistance of clerks in stores
like Wal-Mart with great success.. I have also tried, however, on many
occasions to seek the assistance of clerks in supermarkets (maybe a better
reference than 'grocery store') and I felt like I was alone on the ocean
with a leak in my raft. As far as the courtesy shown by other shoppers - it
seems that many fellow shoppers only see a sightless person as an obstacle.
It infuriates me to see adults treating those who are physically or mentally
challenged as though they were intruding into their own personal 'space'. I
was raised to exercise common courtesies like holding a door for the next
person or letting someone struggling with a large package ahead of me in
line.
I suppose my original statement was too generalized and easy to be
misinterpreted.
--
Bruce M. Thompson
bthmpson@big_NOSPAM_foot.com
"BlueDogs" <blue...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:sn4le02...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> > Yes, I'm a newbie. Nice to meet you.
> >
> > Kidding? About which part. Did I put my foot in my mouth?
> > --
>
> Nice to meet you too Bruce. :) I was referring to the sentence,
>
> <quote> By the way, what would a blind person with a seeing-eye dog do
once
> inside
> of a grocery store? </quote>
>
> There is a blind lady who often is seen navigating the huge Wal mart in
our
> area all by herself. Along with her trusty seeing eye dog that is. What do
> they do once inside a store? Why they shop of course! Just like everybody
> else. :) And if other people would do as I do and instruct my children
that
> if they ever see a service dog it is inappropriate behavior to distract
the
The Carrolls
Baloo wrote in message ...
>
>"Melanie L Chang" <mlc...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> wrote in message
>news:8kt91a$pon$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
>> Testarossa (Testa...@cheerful.com) wrote:
>> As for service animals, they are allowed to lie in front of the seat row
>> and I believe they fly for free. Owners of other small animals have to
>> pay (usually $50 each way), another thing that burns my britches since
>> brats -- er, I mean, toddlers -- who can sit on their parents' laps are
>> allowed to fly for free.
>
>Actually, I'd read that there's a new policy stating that each child must
>have a separate seat. I believe this applies even for small babies in
>carriers. Anyone else heard this?
I know if/when I have kids, there's no way that I'm going to sacrafice my
comfort and safety to have a child sit in my lap. I've dealt with very
minor turbulance, and I still couldn't keep from spilling my drink all over
myself, don't wanna know what would happen to a small child...
~Emily
The Carrolls
Bruce M. Thompson wrote in message ...
>Andy:
>
>This has got to be one of the longest threads I have ever seen in a
>newsgroup. I think you have opened up a can of worms.
>
Mom
>& Pop markets where you could get some help. It's much easier to have
>someone else do that shopping for them.
Um, you'd be surprised, but they can (and do) ask for the clerk's help in
assistance regardless of where they are.
~Emily
TO...@dog-play.com
> Andy:
> By the way, what would a blind person with a seeing-eye dog do once inside
> of a grocery store? Things just aren't as personal as in the days of the Mom
> & Pop markets where you could get some help. It's much easier to have
> someone else do that shopping for them.
A person who is "blind" doesn't necessarily see nothing. Many, if not
most, have some vision. Many can hold the item right up to their face
and see enough to make a selection. It might be "easier" to have the
server cut your meat for you in the restaurant, but that doesn't mean you
would enjoy the experience. Like the rest of us someone who is blind
will often prefer to do just as much for themselves as they can manage.
Here are a couple web sites that might help:
http://www.rnib.org.uk/wesupply/fctsheet/shortgu.htm
http://www.blind.net/bpba1970.htm
And while on the subject - OK all of you with web pages - are they
accessible? Mine are, how about checking yours.
Web Pages, Accessiblity Myths
http://www.htmlhelp.com/design/accessibility/myths.html
Diane Blackman
http://www.dog-play.com/ http://www.dog-play.com/TOTE.html
"What all trainers need to understand, regardless of allegiance, is that
it is not the application of punishment or reward, but the incorrect
application of punishment or reinforcement that leads to unhappy dogs and
frustrated trainers." "Smart Trainers -- Brilliant Dogs" by Janet Lewis
shelly
>And while on the subject - OK all of you with web pages - are they
>accessible? Mine are, how about checking yours.
>Web Pages, Accessiblity Myths
>http://www.htmlhelp.com/design/accessibility/myths.html
oooh! thank you! i'm on the board of a not for profit and
was just talking about this with our web designer. now i
have somehting to show him instead of a vague reference.
not to mention that this will be a great incentive to redo
my own website. thanks!
Wolfkazzy
>question that's been popping around in my head. Forgive my ignorance, but
>how, exactly, *do* blind folks grocery shop? Service dog or no, how would
>they manage to gather the proper products without help from another human
>being?
>
>Amber
Memorization for the most part, also sense of smell and sense of hearing are
incredibly acute. I don't recall having seen braile (sp?) in Walmart stores
but I have seen them on occasion in some groc stores especially up North, in
the N.E. states there seems to be more use of braile on shelves, etc than down
here in the South..Texas.
But there are ways to get what you want..if you go to a particular store so
many times, you get to know exactly where the peanut butter is, right? A blind
person does memorize how many steps it takes to get to point A and how many it
takes from point A to point B. It's kind of like typing, after learning it, you
forget exactly where your fingers are supposed to go, but you manage to get the
words out right, that is if you don't two finger peck <vbg>. I hope that makes
it a little less foggy :)
Kathy and Honey (the wonder Hearing Dog)
Bill W
>Got a question. Do the airlines allow service dogs in the cabin?
Yes.
>Does the owner have to pay for an extra seat to compensate for the space of a
>dog?
No.
>Is there a special area that service dogs and their owners have to
>sit?
In the case I know about, the disabled person told the airline in
advance about the service dog (a giant breed). The airline seated the
person in a bulkhead row so that the dog could lay on the floor
against the bulkhead.
> I don't fly much and I've never had the pleasure of seeing a
>service dog on a flight.
>What if a passenger has an allergy to dogs and throws them into an asthma attack? (I have that type of allergy to cats)
I suspect that in the unlikely coincidence that the asthmatic person
is sitting close, I suspect the airline reseats then to an area
farther away. All U. S. flights are non smoking, so that isn't a
factor anymore.
>For the record, I feel that service dogs must be allowed to go anywhere
>their owner goes.
>Wilo Pups
Bill W.
Wolfkazzy
>order to have your animal with you, or shop alone".
>
>The question is, Can you function without the services of a trained
>hearing dog? If the answer is no, then you have a right to have the
>assistance of a trained dog to perform functions you cannot perform
>alone.
>
There isn't a specific law that states you have to be this deaf in order to
have a service dog. As a service/hearing dog trainer myself as well as having
my own Hearing dog, I have seen alot of different situations. I even have
friends that have Hearing dogs, but they leave them at home. Why? Because they
feel they don't need a dog out in public..that they don't need assistance. In
my mind, they do because they can't hear a forklift driver backing up..I'm
forever happy my Honey was with me and she'll be with me as long as she's able.
I wear two hearing aids. Without the hearing aids, I'm profoundedly deaf. (in
other words, legally waaay deaf). However with the hearing aids, I'm classified
along the lines of being hard of hearing. I do hear some things, just not the
high pitch tones (like the forklift). So basically, if you can't hear someone
walk up behind you or can't hear your keys falling to the pavement, or can't
hear a forklift until it's almost ontop of you, then you probably would benefit
from a Hearing Dog.
Bill W
>While I don't necessarily agree with that sentiment, it does bring up a
>question that's been popping around in my head. Forgive my ignorance, but
>how, exactly, *do* blind folks grocery shop? Service dog or no, how would
>they manage to gather the proper products without help from another human
>being?
>Amber
That may be a good question for Seeing Eye dogs, but not nearly all
dogs are for the visually impaired. The service dog I am most
familiar with pulls a wheel chair, retreives dropped items or items
illuminated with a laser pointer, and finds items in the house by name
(keys, cordless phones, tv remotes).
This dog knows the commands to heel on the left or right, walk in
front or behind, pull left, right, or front, and to walk without
wagging his tail. He weighs about 120 pounds and can pick up a dime
from a tile floor an put it in the hand of his owner. And yes, he can
and has picked up a dropped can in a grocery aisle and returned it to
his owner.
Danae
Andy <m_lev...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:L_5c5.40774$T%3.38...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> I've seen some people bring their dogs into grocery stores. People, this
is
> nasty. First of all, it's a place where food is stored.
While I'm not saying people should bring thier pets into a grocery store,
I'm just curious if there really is a health risk allowing dogs into places
where food is stored? What sort of health problems could be caused by this?
Or is it just that some people find the thought of a dog in the same area as
human food "icky"?
Granted, I'm very much a dog person so nothing "doggie" bothers me. I'm
also not a sanitary freak when it comes to food either. I know some people
who will refuse to eat anything that someone else has touched. I, on the
other hand, am firm believer in the "three second rule" -- as long as you
pick up food off the floor within three seconds it doesn't count <G>
But I just have a feeling that this law is more due to the "ick" factor
rather than any real health risks. Please correct me if I'm wrong!
> I've never even seen a blind person bring a seeing-eye dog into a grocery
> store. The blind have more respect than most other people do.
I've seen a several blind people with service dogs at my grocery store.
What I haven't seen is anyone who looked even remotely upset at the fact
that there were service dogs in the grocery store.
-- April
Danae
Nic <bullda...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:telc5.10920$Hk1.1...@nntp3.onemain.com...
>
> Animal tolerant? In several of those countries my breed is banned, as well
> as dozens of others. I'd rather be able to HAVE my dog and not be able to
> take him to the grocery store :^)
I _think_ in France you can bring a dog into malls, and maybe even into
restaurants. Yes? No? Anyone?
Maybe I just saw that in a movie. :p
-- April
>
> Nic, Brando the APBT, Buster the Pug, Tommy the Cat, Phil the Corn Snake
> http://www.teleport.com/~pitbull
>
> Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me, for I
> may not follow. Do not walk beside me, either. Just leave me the hell
alone.
>
>
Danae
<snip>
> My kids don't. However I've come across people who are less than hygenic
in
> public and that is unfortunate. I've yet to see a child bite a passing
> stranger or pee on the grocery store floor though......
I have!!
Several years ago in a Safeway, I happened upon an approx. 4 year old boy
and his mother. He was throwing a temper tantrum over something (probably
wanted something that his mother wouldn't let him have) and his mother was
screaming back at him. I can't remember what she said to set him off, but
the boy all of a sudden stopped, grinned, and peed his pants right there.
The mother was just mortified!!!
I, of course, was just laughing my ass off. Okay, so I shouldn't have been,
but that grin right before he did the "deed" was just priceless!
Needless to say, the only kids that I'm in a rush to get are the four legged
variety :)
-- April
No Body
don't remember ever hearing my friend Lucy mentioning it. If not, I think
that it might be a pretty darned good idea. Of course, it would be up to
the stores, or patrolling police cars to enforce it, which I doubt would
happen. :(
> For one handicap users have a" wallet card ID"
> I know I have one, I have a placard and a tag ,it must be carried at all
times
> to prove you are with that auto.
> so more is needed than the tag.
> even if the tag is one, you must have the individual with you. I dont know
if
> this is all states but its in PA.
>
>
> Tina/mookeysmom
> "new photos added to photo album & slide show":
> http://community.webshots.com/album/1423111eQdinNWDrt
>
>
Cindy Tittle Moore
Wolfkazzy <wolf...@aol.com> wrote:
>I have seen alot of different situations. I even have
>friends that have Hearing dogs, but they leave them at home. Why? Because they
>feel they don't need a dog out in public..that they don't need assistance.
Yep. Legally my dogs probably qualify as hearing dogs, but I don't
use them out in public. There are many more cues for me available
when I'm outside, wearing my hearing aids, and keeping an eye on
things. When I'm at home, though, oblivious on the computer, the dogs
tell me when the phone's ringing, someone's at the door, when the
microwave oven goes off, a timer, etc. In addition, at home, I often
do not wear my hearing aids. So it's quite true the situations
differ...my loss is profound, so the argument of "how deaf do you have
to be" is irrelevant. If you need the dog, that's enough. And that's
what the ADA essentially says.
--Cindy
Cindy Tittle Moore
Danae <dan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Nic <bullda...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:telc5.10920$Hk1.1...@nntp3.onemain.com...
>>
>> Animal tolerant? In several of those countries my breed is banned, as well
>> as dozens of others. I'd rather be able to HAVE my dog and not be able to
>> take him to the grocery store :^)
>
>I _think_ in France you can bring a dog into malls, and maybe even into
>restaurants. Yes? No? Anyone?
That's what I saw, when I was there in '89. Took me quite aback, but
it was fun. The dogs were all very well behaved. You had to watch
your step outside, though.
--Cindy
Cindy Tittle Moore
>I wear two hearing aids. Without the hearing aids, I'm profoundedly
>deaf. (in other words, legally waaay deaf). However with the hearing
>aids, I'm classified along the lines of being hard of hearing.
Sounds like me! Er, no pun intended.
>I do hear some things, just not the high pitch tones (like the
>forklift). So basically, if you can't hear someone walk up behind you
>or can't hear your keys falling to the pavement, or can't hear a
>forklift until it's almost ontop of you, then you probably would
>benefit from a Hearing Dog.
Oh, I *wish* I didn't hear forklifts/backing up trucks! Those go right
through my skull. My loss tends to be in the lower frequencies, not
the higher, so I hear women better than men, and will hear the fork
lift, but not the airplane overhead (tho I'll feel that).
--Cindy
MaryBeth
"No Body" <nob...@home.now> wrote in message
news:sn561a5...@corp.supernews.com...
> Interesting... I don't THINK that a card is required in MO, but i'll ask.
I
> don't remember ever hearing my friend Lucy mentioning it. If not, I think
> that it might be a pretty darned good idea. Of course, it would be up to
> the stores, or patrolling police cars to enforce it, which I doubt would
> happen. :(
I've had a handicapped tag since '91. I lived in California at the time,
and then didn't have a card. I lived in Kansas and did have one. In
Philadelphia, I didn't. Dunno if this has changed in the past few years. I
would hope so. I do have an ID card here in NJ.
One thing to point out. In a shopping center parking lot, the police, in
most places I have lived, have no jurisdiction there, it's private property.
And if you go to the store manager, they won't do a thing about it, usually.
:( Unless they have a 'mall security' type person around.
Funny thing is, my DH is in a wheelchair, and doesn't now, have the need
for a card. He is healthy, and can wheel all around, no pain, no problem. If
it was up to him, we could park the farthest spot away, and he'd be fine.
I, OTOH, DO have pain. My problem is that I don't always have severe
pain. I never know when it's going to hit me. I could walk a mile and be
fine, and the next week, walk across my kitchen and wind up bent over in
excruciating pain. I hate to carry my cane with me, unless necessary.
So I park in the handicapped spots. At grocery stores, I usually try to
find a cart outside, near the cars. I can use this in lieu of my cane. It
works well for me. If, when I return to car, and my knees aren't sore, I'll
put cart back in corral. However if I am in pain, I leave it out near my
car. Out of the way of others parking but not back at corral.
I once had an altercation with a woman, with me doing this, at BJ's. I
had forgotten my tag, and my cane, and was feeling great that day. So I
parked away from store. By the time I was halfway thru my shopping the pain
had hit me, severely. And so I left my cart by car. She gave me the nastiest
look, and told me I should put the cart away!! I pulled out, and blocked her
and her husband in, as he was by now giving it to me also. I hobbled out of
my car to her side, and told her I had had a knee replacement due in two
days. Her answer? "How was *I* supposed to know that?" My answer?
"Exactly!!" Told her I would GLADLY trade my knees for hers, and let her
park anywhere, and I'd jog from farthest spot.
I have had nothing but hassles 50% of the time I park in these spots.
Just because I'm not in a wheelchair, nor crutches, and *especially* not
over 65, I get all kinds of remarks and looks. I sometimes kindly explain to
them, other times make smart remarks, and other times, just ignore.
I had one woman, yelling at me a few months ago, that I was taking up
her spot. She came in long after I had parked, I was already walking into
store. Told me her daughter was in a WC. I said, yeah, so's my husband. :)
She then started to *scream* at me to get my car out of there. Told her I'd
just had knee replacement, and was in lots of pain. (I was using a cart to
lean on.) She was livid, even after I calmly explained that my tag was for
ME, not DH, and that I had every right to be there. I later saw her daughter
and her, zooming all over in the store, laughing and joking, with absolutely
no sign of pain. She had an electric WC, and was having a great time,
speeding around the aisles. Here I was hobbling around, missing half of my
list, because I had to get out and sit down.
Ppl think that if you're not in the shape I mentioned above, WC,
crutches/cane, over 65, then you have no right to park there. What about
patients with heart disease? They have no outward signs. Most times I don't
let it get to me, but as Bill W. said, there are times when I wind up in
tears, once I get back to the car. I'm not in a self pity mode 99% of the
time. But when reminded that I NEED that spot, from the age of 35, til now,
and always will NEED it, I cry. I just wish I could get thru to everyone
that I would give ANYTHING to be able to not need this tag, and be able to
walk from farthest spot. I swear, I'd do that, if I ever had the full use of
my legs again.
It sickening, not bad enough that I NEED to use this, but that I have to
verbally DEFEND myself half the time I go out.
MaryBeth
MaryBeth
>
>
> Bill W wrote:
>
> > She then goes home and cries herself to sleep.
>
> I know that feeling. There is almost nothing worse then having to go
through
> hell just because you suffer from a disability. You have to deal with all
sorts
> of pain and torment privately, you don't want to have to deal with things
like
> that publicly too.
Yup, I just wrote about that in another post to this thread. It is
horrible, for me, to not be able to walk into a store and do my *entire*
list, because of pain coming on suddenly. That's one thing, and it's a part
of my life.
But to have to *defend* myself to ignorant others, outside, in the
handicapped spot, is at times, so insulting to me.
I thought I had a great remark a year or so ago. Was waiting for Best
Buy to open one day. An older, (late 60's), guy goes by, remarking that,
*I* am the reason his MIL can't find a spot. Now, know that there were about
10 other open HC spots. I called him back and asked for his badge, thinking
this will shut him up, as it had others. He pulled it out and showed it to
me !!! He was a cop, <BG>, so I asked him to ticket me. He just went on a
LOUD rampage about ppl like me using my grandmother's HC tag !!
I got out of car, limping, with my cane, and went up to him and asked
for his badge again. He refused to show it to me. There were about 20 ppl
milling around. They all witnessed his nasty verbal harassment of me, and
were POed. I told him he had to show me his badge, or I'd call the police.
He reluctantly did, and I shot off a very nasty missive to his boss, along
with other ppl's phone numbers, as witnesses. (Just about everyone had
handed me their number. <G>)
Now? I usually stop, go up to the person with hand outstretched, and
say, "Oh, Dr.???? I'm sorry I missed your name, and wasn't aware you were
now on my case. What is your name, and when is my next appt.?" All with a
very sincere smile on my face. This has worked very well so far. <G>
MaryBeth