Message from discussion Halti Headcollar vs Pinch Prongs for training

Path: g2news2.google.com!news3.google.com!news4.google.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wns13feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s71.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
From: Robin Nuttall <robi...@mchsi.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Subject: Re: Halti Headcollar vs Pinch Prongs for training
References: <450b6916$0$21518$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net>   <1160712962.537547.296940@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   <kCEXg.4823$HP.351@trndny08> <1160748652.295310.230780@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <1160748652.295310.230780@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <nkXXg.194727$FQ1.87663@attbi_s71>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.219.219.98
X-Complaints-To: abuse@mchsi.com
X-Trace: attbi_s71 1160790419 12.219.219.98 (Sat, 14 Oct 2006 01:46:59 GMT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 01:46:59 GMT
Organization: AT&T ASP.att.net
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 01:46:59 GMT

beth...@nospam.goaway.con wrote:
> TaraG wrote:

> 
>>After seeing this post, I googled Chris Zinc and harness, and only got one
>>hit that referred to the same opinion, but also in the third person without
>>any sensible explanation as to why. Could you elaborate on this? I've been
>>using these harnesses for a coupleof years now, and while they're not
>>appropriate for all dogs, they work pretty well, IMO.
> 
> 
> I've seen the harnesses used and misused.  They seem to fill a need for
> some dog owners. I've never had to use one and since I track with my
> dogs, probably never would.
> 

Here's my take on any sort of head harness for any breed with any 
potential neck problems. The head harness controls from, (duh) the head. 
If a dog, being a dog, lunges against the head harness, what happens is 
that a torquing motion is put on the neck. The head is twisted down (or 
up) and to the side, twisting the neck.

As the owner of a breed prone to cervical spinal issues, I would never 
use any sort of head collar on a Doberman. Ever. Some people do. I wouldn't.

As for "torture," I have to say that every dog I've ever seen wearing a 
head collar has spent time fighting it, and or has been shut down due to 
the collar. Neither one is what I could call optimal. And I think the 
person you want to google on this is Suzanne Clothier, not Chris Zink. 
www.flyingdogpress.com.