Here's A Book Review Of The koehler Method, APPROVED By Our Own Professor Of Behavior Lyingdoc dermer Of U. Of Wisconsin, FORMER Master Of Deception, Till He Got Bagged For Lying
Jerry Howe
Begining to get the picture???
Hello john,
"John Rason" <jo...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:RSHq5.695$Tn6.4...@news2.news.adelphia.net...
> Teresa,
> You will get many excellent responses from people here in
> this newsgroup,
Yup. There's been a lot of excellent posts, but few from our
rpdb regulars, our Gang Of Thugs.
> but you must be aware of a person named "Jerry Howe."
> He will surely write to you.
Only if I've got something to say. I'm not here for my
health...
> I'd reccommend people like Bob Maida,
Ah yes, boob. All he knows is to tell people to killfile me. He
won't talk dog training here, since I make him look like a
jackass everytime he talks about training.
He said he recommends cindymorons' web site for his
"students," says they learn a lot from her. She twists and
pinches dog's ears and shocks and jerks and chokes them
on pronged choke collars.
> Diane Blackman,
She's something allright... She knits little cover ups for her
pronged choke collar so she can train illegally on A.K.C.
show grounds. She day boards her own dogs because they
are not trustworthy at home. She has a dog who's been a
chronic leash puller for five years, despite EVERYTHING
that she has done to hurt him to make him heel.
> Janet Boss
Brilliant. She's killed two dogs this year because she only
understands jerking and choking them on pronged choke
collars. See the thread ''interested in hearing," where she's
OBLIVIOUS to TWO shock containment systems that are
making the dog AGGRESSIVE, and she's standing there
telling the people to jerk and choke the dog to make him
friendly, and to crate the dog when they can't properly jerk
and choke him. The consensus of opinion of our Gang Of
Thugs was KILL THE DOG TO BE FAIR...
> and such.
You mean such as lyinglynn, who has been REPEATEDLY
BAGGED FOR LYING? She just told someone to put the
lead on a dog in a crate to jerk and choke him because he
was barking cause he was AFRAID. That's a new rescue
dog they're HELPING.
> (there are more).
You can be sure of that. We've got steve boyer who proudly
slaps puppies around to COMMUNICATE with them in a
language they UNDERSTAND. We've got freaky fraud die
who shocks dogs till they learn to shut the juice off
themselves...
> Jerry Howe is not of sane mind,
And then we got lyingdogDUMMY, who HANGS dogs to
REHABILITATE them, totally unaware that the dogs are
getting AGGRESSIVE because he's jerking and choking
and shocking them and twisting and pinching their ears...
AND BEATING THEM, according to koehler. Mrs
lyingdogDUMMY can hang a dog as good as he can,
when necessary...says he.
(these methods are APPROVED and USED by lying"I LOVE KOEHLER,"lynn,
lyingfrosty dahl, professora "chin cuff don't mean SLAP the
dog,"gingold, cindymooreon, john richardson, and many, many, MOORE
of our Gang Of Thugs. That's why I'm here, good buddy.)
> and it would be best to not reply to him or heed any of his
> advice.
You mean the advice like sticking your fingers down puppies
throats to choke them out of mouthing ANYTHING like
cindymoron teaches, except she doesn't like getting SLIME
on her fingers???
And then they've got to twist and pinch IT'S ears, to make
them retrieve. And THEN they BEAT THE DOGS WITH
STICKS to MOTIVATE them..
NO WONDER EVERYONE THINKS I'M LYING!!!
You don't have any problem for shoving your fingers down
puppy's throats and being SLIMY, do you???
> It would be best to killfile Mr. Howe.
Before they find out that I'm telling the truth, and that I have
the best training advice available ANYWHERE???
> (Look for a nasty response to this message from Mr. Howe
> which I will not see since he is killfiled.
You'll see them. Everybody sees them. Why do you think
my name shows up in a search as often as dog or puppy?
> He will surely make a nasty comment and include 25k of
> garbage after this message).
What NASTY?
> g'day
It's your pals, our Gang Of Thugs, most of whom are koehler
trainers, who are NASTY.
Here's a book review of the koehler method, APPROVED
by our own professor of behavior dermer of U. of Wisconsin,
FORMER Master Of Deception, till he got bagged for lying.
mazz...@harpo.tnstate.edu from Nashville, Tennessee , 8
December, 1998
Old-fashioned, violent, and irresponsible
If it were possible to give this book no stars, I would have
done so. The "method" described herein is hopelessly old-
fashioned. Dogs are "taught" in a brief period in which they
are forced into the position the trainer wants (sit, down),
while the trainer repeats the command word. After this, the
dog is expected to respond to immediately to the command,
or face a "correction." There is no discussion of either the
dog's conceptual framework or of learning theory.
The entire book is framed by the insistence that no dog
"wants to please," and that, therefore, the only way to train
reliable behavior is with the threat of punishment. That this
absurd claim has been disproved by competitors in dog
sports ranging from obedience to schutzhund, tracking,
agility, and flyball, who are getting some remarkable results
with purely positive training, does not seem to dampen the
enthusiasm with which Koehler proponents embrace the
"method," repeating the Master's words like a mantra.
So why the popularity of the book, thoughtless and
obsolescent as it is?
One explanation is that Koehler touches on deeply held
cultural beliefs in the value of punishment. It would not be
too strong, I think, to say he is writing of sin and redemption.
"All dogs are entitled to the consequences of their actions,"
he writes of the ennobling value of punishment. There may
be a dim echo here of the ideology of the birch in 19th-
century education, where the offending students were
compelled to bring the rod, receive their punishment, and
thank the schoolmaster for the lesson.
Whatever one may think of this strange attraction to
punishment, when taken to the extreme Koehler describes,
it certainly has pernicious effects on the relationship
between dog and human.
In the section on the formal obedience exercises,
the violence is fairly mild, as Koehler describes how to
handle dogs who are resistant to his approach. It is in the
"trouble shooting" section at the end of the book that the
implicit violence of the approach itself is most apparent.
What do you do to stop a dog from barking? Hit the dog.
Destructive behavior in the house? Tape his muzzle shut.
Digging in the yard? Dig a hole, fill it with water, and hold his
head under until he thinks he will drown.
Koehler offers this advice with sadistic glee, all the while
describing the dogs as "criminals" and "hoods," giving one
the feeling once more that there is some other, more
shadowy agenda here than dog training.
The power of these descriptions over the minds of readers
inheres in the way they justify and codify anger and violence.
Everyone has felt frustration at one time or another; instead
of taking the long, hard road of teaching or managing your
dog, Koehler offers a simple solution. Feeling angry, even
violent? Act on it.
Koehler's irresponsibility in offering such advice will be
clear when one considers that it is the trouble shooting
section of the book that pet owners are most likely to read
and act upon, in spite of the disclaimer that such advice is
meant to be taken only if these problems persist after the
dog has gone through formal obedience training. Of course
the problems will persist, since walking at heel has relatively
little to do with digging in the back yard.
Koehler's admirers--and there are still a few--insist that in
practice he taught dogs to love the training rather than to
fear the correction. If this is so, there is no indication of it in
the written manual.
What is certain is that no one would be able to train a dog to
do anything using the techniques he describes in the book.
The best thing that could be said of Koehler as a trainer
would be that he didn't follow his own advice.
Of this book, charity may be persuaded that it was written
ignorantly, without ill intention. But it is certainly of
dangerous example. It will be of interest principally to
cultural historians, or to sociologists and psychologists who
are interested in the hold of violence on the human heart.
--This text refers to the hardcover edition of this title
Your pal, Jerry "The PHONY," Howe. j;~}
KrisHur
"Candace" <can...@wirebird.com> wrote in message
news:0pr5p9...@lists.wirebird.com...
> In <fKot7.27528$2H2.2...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
> , Jerry said:
>
> >You mean such as Lynn, who has been REPEATEDLY
>
> Jerry frequently describes other posters as "proven liars,", but if
> asked for this supposed "proof," will dismiss the questioner with
> instructions to ask the accused "liar." A little thought will reveal
> the logic behind this request - killfiles distress Jerry greatly, so he
> uses this tactic to get others to do his harassing for him, since he can
> no longer reach his target. In general, if you have a question about
> whether someone "really did" what Jerry accuses themof, you can visit my
> website at <URL:http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/>where the truth is
> documented.
>
> Specific examples:
<URL:http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/provenlie.html>
>
> >collars. See the thread ''interested in hearing, where she's
>
> Jerry often refers readers to the 'interested in hearing' thread. Many
have
> taken his advice and read the thread, only to find that Jerry has
completely
> misrepresented it. The "little" dog was a mix between a beagle and
> something larger. Janet never "overlooked" any electronic containment
> system. The dog already had the behavior problems Janet describes (and
> which Jerry often amplifies, and/or blames Janet for) when Janet was
called
> in. And "killing the dog to be fair" is found in only one person's
replies
> to that thread... Jerry's.
>
> >friendly, and to crate the dog when they can't properly jerk
>
> Jerry claims that crate training causes all manner of anxiety-related
> behaviors, yet he advocates leaving a dog alone outdoors twenty-three
> hours a day for the owner's convenience, and training the dog to suppress
> any indication of anxiety.
>
> >on pronged choke collars.
>
> Jerry uses the term "pronged choke collar" in an attempt to paint
> trainers in a negative light. There is no such device as a pronged
> choke collar in dog training - a web search for such a device turns up
> sex toys, however.
>
> >Thugs was KILL THE DOG TO BE FAIR...
>
> 'Kill the dog to be fair' is one of Jerry's catchphrases. He likes to
make
> it sound like it's something other posters have advocated, but a Google
Groups
> search will indicate otherwise - this is something Jerry puts forward
himself.
>
> >AND BEATING THEM, according to Koehler. Mrs
>
> Jerry attempts to paint Koehler as the Antichrist of dog training, using
> selective quoting and other methods to give a biased impression of the
> training techniques (and to imply that all Koehler-based trainers use
> all the harshest techniques, and on every dog they train). There is a
> more balanced explanation of the positive and negative aspects of the
> Koehler method at <URL:http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/koehler.html.>
>
> >Ah yes, Bob. All he knows is to tell people to killfile me. He
>
> Any doubt about Jerry's purpose on rpdb can be quickly dispelled by
> noting how agitated he becomes when denying that anyone "really"
> killfiles him. It is apparently very important to him that he be the
> center of the newsgroup's attention, and his behavior becomes more
> outrageous if he feels he is being ignored. It is the purpose of this
> virtual border collie to refute his claims without providing him human
> interaction - it is strongly suggested that the humans in the newsgroup
> killfile him to avoid this.
>
> A copy of Mark Shaw's excellent killfile FAQ, posted to rpdb weekly, is
also
> available at <URL:http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/killfile.html>.
>
> >and shocking them and twisting and pinching their ears...
>
> Jerry claims that female dog owners train their dogs by twisting their
ears or
> testicles, by beating it with hickory sticks, or by engaging it in other
acts
> more often found in sex fetish newsgroups. It is debatable whether he
does
> this merely in an attempt to provoke a fight, or whether he gains some
sort of
> sexual gratification from the imagery.
>
> >And then we got dogman, who HANGS dogs to
>
> William Koehler, and most other dog trainers, suggest picking a dog up by
its
> lead (effectively "hanging" it) in the event of an actual attack. This is
not,
> despite Jerry's claims, a training technique, but simple self-defense.
The
> parallel with a similar autoerotic technique is probably the source of
Jerry's
> fascination with attributing this as a "training technique" to female
> trainers.
>
>
> --
> Candace, the virtual border collie: http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/
> As a well-trained, working virtual dog, I don't need any attention other
> than my handler's, so you can killfile me based on my From line or on the
> 'ninnyboy' tag in my Subject.
>
toddg
"Candace" <can...@wirebird.com> wrote in message
news:0pr5p9...@lists.wirebird.com...
> In <fKot7.27528$2H2.2...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
> , Jerry said:
>
> >You mean such as Lynn, who has been REPEATEDLY
>
> Jerry frequently describes other posters as "proven liars,", but if
> asked for this supposed "proof," will dismiss the questioner with
> instructions to ask the accused "liar." A little thought will reveal
> the logic behind this request - killfiles distress Jerry greatly, so he
> uses this tactic to get others to do his harassing for him, since he can
> no longer reach his target. In general, if you have a question about
> whether someone "really did" what Jerry accuses themof, you can visit my
> website at <URL:http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/>where the truth is
> documented.
>
> Specific examples:
<URL:http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/provenlie.html>
>
>
have
> taken his advice and read the thread, only to find that Jerry has
completely
> misrepresented it. The "little" dog was a mix between a beagle and
> something larger. Janet never "overlooked" any electronic containment
> system. The dog already had the behavior problems Janet describes (and
> which Jerry often amplifies, and/or blames Janet for) when Janet was
called
> in. And "killing the dog to be fair" is found in only one person's
replies
> to that thread... Jerry's.
>
>
> behaviors, yet he advocates leaving a dog alone outdoors twenty-three
> hours a day for the owner's convenience, and training the dog to suppress
> any indication of anxiety.
>
> >on pronged choke collars.
>
> Jerry uses the term "pronged choke collar" in an attempt to paint
> trainers in a negative light. There is no such device as a pronged
> choke collar in dog training - a web search for such a device turns up
> sex toys, however.
>
>
>
ears or
> testicles, by beating it with hickory sticks, or by engaging it in other
acts
> more often found in sex fetish newsgroups. It is debatable whether he
does
> this merely in an attempt to provoke a fight, or whether he gains some
sort of
> sexual gratification from the imagery.
>
> >And then we got dogman, who HANGS dogs to
>
> William Koehler, and most other dog trainers, suggest picking a dog up by
its
> lead (effectively "hanging" it) in the event of an actual attack. This is
not,
> despite Jerry's claims, a training technique, but simple self-defense.
The
> parallel with a similar autoerotic technique is probably the source of
Jerry's
> fascination with attributing this as a "training technique" to female
> trainers.
Why would you need self-defense from the dog you have on the lead? wouldn't
that be your dog?
Why would you need a book to train a dog anyway? Training dogs is much the
same as training children,
you have to evaluate every dog individually and adjust your training to the
dog.
Just remember one thing, there is a fine line between fear and respect and
if your dog or child respects you then you'll have it made, but if they fear
you then you'll have nothing but Trouble.
And that's all I got to say about that.
Jerry Howe
"KrisHur" <kris...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:o_Ct7.24974$QJ3.7...@sjcpnn01.usenetserver.com...
> Candace, please remove the cross-posts when responding to the
> troll.
Care to discuss koehler so's I can HANG YOU from your cross posts???
j;~}
Hello People,
While thinking and talking about sionnach and her gently rolling an out
of control 8 month old lab puppy on his side and casually nipping his
ear to teach him leash training, in the "growling westie" thread, and
melanie chung in her "nyah nyah, I can't hear you" and YOU can't MAKE me
thread, the following discussion devolved:
Paul says:
Hitler liked his dog if I'm not mistaken
Jerry says:
shes' probably got her little red book tucked in her garterbelt (in
reference to melanie chung hurting her man shy, fear aggressive dog Solo
for his sheep terrorizing and other behavior problems).
Jerry says:
i dunno about them bums...
Jerry says:
what kind of doggy did hitler have, rotties or gsd?
Paul says:
I dunno, just thought I read some where he was good to his dog, maybe
I'm wrong
Paul says:
might have been a fox terrier
Paul says:
hahahahahahah
Jerry says:
you're a RIOT!!!
Paul says:
if he had had Roz she would have been sent to the concentration camp
Paul says:
might have done her good, taught her to concentrate
Paul says:
hahahaha
Jerry says:
may i copy that up till the laugh about mr H?
Paul says:
if you want
Jerry says:
thanks, that ought to be worth a good laugh.
Paul says:
why?
Jerry says:
It's FUNNY about sionnach in that thread where she alphapha rolls and
ear bites the lab puppy, and understands she can't ABUSE a JRT
successfully like that beacuse he's too little to grab ahold of, and if
she did snag him up, he'd bite her fifty times before she could shake
him loose!!!
That's why they have different "methods" as the 'FINAL SOLUTION" for dog
behavior problems.
Jerry says:
the pup they're talking about is an aggressive westie
Paul says:
did she say that really tho?
Jerry says:
for real man. it's in the thread "growling westie" as her cure for LEASH
PULLING.
Paul says:
I've decided a mans leather belt isn't a good tool, you need a studded
mans belt to get REAL results
Jerry says:
yes read the thread 'growling westie'
Jerry says:
she was talking about three different dogs there
Jerry says:
but the westie was the OP's dog. they can't abuse that little dog
without gettin HURT. That's the same reason mr hitler was kind to his
terrier, he wouldn't like gettin bitten. that's the hallmark of our dog
abusing lying cowards... j;~}
misty" <Mom...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6...@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two dogs,
> two collars We now have one dog and no collars.
> Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come back
> in the yard and would run for days. The last time, Peach didn't
> come back home.
> I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train my dog.
> She is now border trained. A few minutes each day reinforces
> her desire to stay in the yard. She no longer runs out into the
> road, I can stop her from chasing cats and she no longer cringes
> when we walk around the yard.
> I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the e-fence and
> its collars. If you can't get a regular fence then you need to
> train your dog. I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my
> dog in our yard again. The price was too high:-(
> ~misty
<"Terri"@cyberhighway
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Rober Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs since
I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood enough
of the manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher and the
posts of Marylin Rammell to believe and use it. This naive
child would like to say thank you to both Jerry and Marylin for
putting up with a constant barrage of really infantile crap at
the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the nagging
idea that if people like them had been posting earlier, maybe
we would not have had to hold the head of a really
magnificent animal in our arms while he was given the
needle and having to hug him and wait until he gasped
his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog into
good behavior. Naive is believing that people that hide
behind fake names are more honest than people that use
their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog
breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY,
j.h.) are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing that
people like Jerry Howe and Marylin Rammell are going to
just go away because you people act like fools. Why do you
act like fools? I really have no idea, and I don't really care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and actually
> admit to buying and having success with his little black
> box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and take
it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and testing. You
would never believe the results, so you'll never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming to
> him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh?
As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to listen to the box
first?)
Hello People,
Robert Crim was a former Gang Of Thugs Member, and
hated me a much as the rest of our Thugs do. Robert was a
long time friend and prominent contributor to rpdb, till Jerry
came along and smartened him up. He learned the hard
way, and no longer posts to his former pals, because it is
just too painful knowing his pals would rather HURT and
KILL their dogs than to admit that JERRY is RIGHT.
Margaret Hoffman
Message 1 of 19
Doggy Do Right and Jerry Howe
I just recently looked at this newsgroup and I found it
incredible. I do have a Doggy Do Right and have had it for
about one year. It truly does work - at least on my Dobe,
Chelsea. Chelsea was the unhappy recipient of several failed
attempts at obedience training, both in a "class" environment
and with a personal trainer. She is very high spirited and
strong and, unfortunately, spoiled, since we are an older
couple who doted on our dog. We were lucky enough to find Jerry
Howe and to not only buy a Doggy Do Right, but to also have him
personally work with Chelsea.
His methods are wonderful and effective. Chelsea is not a dog
that you will bully, and I wouldn't dream of hurting her. After
Jerry spent time with her, she no longer jumped on furniture,
ate food off the counter, pulled me incessantly on the leash.
She is calmer and we are all happier. Well, it is a very long
story and I won't bore you with all the details, but suffice it
to say that Jerry Howe saved the day for our dog and for us.
Marge Hoffman. (REWARD PAID BY DW.)
P.S. You can send me the reward money, but I won't sell you my DDR!
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@easynews.com> wrote in message
news:pjaootcg8dgrptuu9...@4ax.com...
> I read up on rotties, pitbulls, etc., and quite a bit of the
> literature suggested I needed to assert my dominance and "make
> the dog earn everything it gets." I tried this once or twice, just by
> taking a stern tone of voice, and the results were terrible. The pup
> got scared and just wanted to stay away from me.
> That's why I support Jerry Howe and his FREE Wits' End Dog
> Training
> manual -- that and the fact that Jerry is an all-around great guy.
> The core takeaway I got from Jerry's manual is this: make yourself
> the center of your puppy's world -- his personal Lord Jesus. Never
> give him a reason to fear you or think you're angry. Love the heck
> out of him, and you'll end up with a great dog.
> This has truly worked with my puppy. She'll do anything I want her
> to, if she understands, because she trusts me 100 percent, and
> nothing is more important in her world than her relationship with
> me.
> Charlie
Hi Jerry,
I received email from Mark Shaw on 10/6 which I just read today.
Sorry I didn't have time to get to it sooner. We have had a lot
going on in our area concerning animals. We formed a new Task
Force to address spay/neuter, pet overpopulation and animal
abuse. I needed to do a lot of research before the first meeting and
time was just not available for anything else.
Anyway the letter went on to say that we are in collusion, I tried
to defraud him, and have sent none of the materials that he has
asked for although he has yet to furnish the P.O. Box number that
he wanted them sent to in the first place. He goes on to state that
I am no longer eligible for the "fictions reward." All of this is in
answer to postings that prove I was "sharing" his email with you
which in his opinion was a breach of good manners. His email only
had terms and conditions of the reward which I would consider
"public information."
Be that as it may, I would like to state that you had my permission
to post any email I have sent you regarding DDR including this
email.
I'm very sorry that you have to put up with this type of situation
from someone that obviously never intended to make good on his
reward offer in the first place.
I had a call from a friend of mine with a very aggressive cat. I
have loaned her my DDR for a few weeks to see if it will calm JR
down. I will let you know the results. She goes to the same holistic
vet that I go to and he is also interested.
In case Mark does post to the list again I would like to say that I
do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it has helped
my dogs and cats. I have entirely too much to do, to worry about his
opinions or reward.
The only reason I was willing to apply for the reward was on your
behalf as I do think your product is a valuable tool in helping with
aggression and other behavior problems.
I am in Feral Cat Network (we spay and neuter approximately 100
feral cats a month), I am also a member of a local AKC dog
obedience club, member of a local AKC agility club, president of
Pet Rescue, board member of the Alliance for Care and Welfare of
Animals (on the board are: county commissioner, vet. rep., rep. from
AKC dog club, CFA cat club, assistant County manager, head of
animal control, director of two different shelters, etc.).
I listed these not to be on an ego trip but to let Mark know that I
am involved with animals and have very little time to play games
with him also I would not recommend your product if I did not
believe in it.
Please feel free to post this email as it has no copyright on it as
did Mark Shaw's last email to me.
Take care Jerry and don't let the Mark's of the world get you down.
Elaine
Thank you, Elaine. I have been trying to educate the mark's of this
world, with some occasional successes. I guess that's variable
reinforcement?
Yours, Jerry.
Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue writes: Sep 9,
2000
"I ordered from Jerry a long time ago.. He was helpful and
the order was filled promptly. Yes, Doggie Do Right does
indeed exist.
I "had" a very aggressive female Pit.. She was showing
aggression not only towards Dok, Rhodesian Ridgeback,
but our cats and even us.
She now plays with Dok, even to the point of allowing him
to take a toy or bone from her. She no longer shows any
aggression towards us. She is showing some aggression
towards the cats but that is down to a warning growl.
It is not just my opinion that all this aggression existed
before Doggie Do Right as we were advised by three vets
to euthanize her.
I do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it
has helped my dogs and cats. I do think your product is a
valuable tool in helping with aggression and other behavior
problems.
I am in Feral CatNetwork (we spay and neuter approximately
100 feral cats a month), I am also a member of a local AKC
dog obedience club, member of a local AKC agility club,
president of Pet Rescue, board member of the Alliance for
Care and Welfare of Animals (on the board are: county
commissioner, vet. rep., rep. from AKC dog club, CFA cat
club, assistant County manager, head of animal control,
director of two different shelters, etc.).
Thanks, Elaine,
"I know that most men, including those at ease with
problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept
even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would
oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they
have delighted in explaining to colleagues, proudly
taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by
thread, into the fabric of their lives."
-Leo Tolstoy-
Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated
more complaints to my personal email than any other
controversial post I have made to date, bar none?:
CAVEAT
If you have to do things to your dog to train him that you
would rather not have to do, then you shouldn't be doing
them. If you have a dog trainer who tells you to jerk your
dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes,
shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, chin cuff, scruff shake or
punish your dog in any manner, that corrections
are appropriate, that the dog won't think of you as the
punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they
can't train your dog to do what you want, look for a
trainer that knows HOWE.
Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Wits' End Dog Training
Witse...@aol.com
http://www.doggydoright.com
Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed.
-Francis Bacon-
There are terrible people who, instead of solving a
problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who
come after. Who ever can't hit the nail on the head
should, please, not hit at all.
-Nietzsche-
The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are
learned qualities.
The Wits' End Dog Training Method challenges the learning
centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged,
develop and continue to grow to make him smarter.
The Wits' End Dog Training method capitalizes on
praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and
timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant
corrections, and scolding.
-Jerry Howe-
sionnach
"toddg" said:
> Why would you need self-defense from the dog you have on the lead?
If the dog is trying to do serious damage either to you or to another dog.
>wouldn't
> that be your dog?
No. What Koehler was talking about in his book was a situation where a
trainer is handling **someone else's dog** which has *serious* aggression
problems- problems that are in existence *before* the trainer starts dealing
with the dog. In ordinary life, the necessity for the technique can crop up
in an emergency; when protecting one's own dog from an attack (i.e. you use
it to control the attacker), or handling a stray.
In 31 years of dealing with dogs, I've seen it used exactly **once**:
A friend of mine was running his Rottwieler in an agility trial, and
somebody's very large Labrador came running onto the field and attacked-
seriously attacked, with intent to kill or do harm- the Rottie as she exited
a tunnel.
The Lab was trailing a lead; Jack grabbed the leash, pulled the dog's
forefeet off the ground, and kept turning in a circle in order to prevent
him from getting hold of Gussie, while keeping Gussie (who, naturally,
wanted to defend both herself and Jack) back with his voice.
The *entire* time, the Lab continued trying to get hold of Gus- he
didn't even cease his attempts to attack when his owner got there a minute
later; she had to drag him away.
Needless to say, the Lab was banned from that trial immediately; his owner
(who had had him on a down-stay and wasn't holding the leash when he bolted
into the ring) voluntarily retired him from agility after the incident. It
wasn't a first-time offense- the Lab had *known* aggression problems- just
the first time his owner had gotten careless enough to let him actually do
something.
> Why would you need a book to train a dog anyway?
Very few people are born automatically, instinctively knowlegable about
dog behaviour and communication with dogs.
>Training dogs is much the
> same as training children,
Um, not entirely. They *are* different species.
> you have to evaluate every dog individually and adjust your training to
the
> dog.
Very true! The best parents, teachers, and dog trainers know many
different techniques, use those which are best for the *individual*, and
modify and adapt those techniques as needed. But books have their place;
just as many parents need help and education in dealing with their children-
and lord knows, there are a heck of a lot of bad and/or ineffective parents
out there!- many people need education in dealing with dogs.
Plus, reading widely on training- or teaching, or parenting- can give you
new ideas and perspectives to add to your toolbox.
> Just remember one thing, there is a fine line between fear and respect and
> if your dog or child respects you then you'll have it made, but if they
fear
> you then you'll have nothing but Trouble.
Yes indeed!
Jenn
"sionnach" <rhyf...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:9p7m61$g99nc$1...@ID-45033.news.dfncis.de...
<snipped for bandwidth>
> In 31 years of dealing with dogs, I've seen it used exactly **once**:
The first time I took a dog to Obed. Classes, the trainer became very upset
that my dog continued to vocalize throughout class. She told me about W.
Koehler, and this method she got from reading his stuff which she called the
"Bark or Breathe" technique. She put a very fine choke chain around my GSD's
neck and hung her until she shut up (NO FRIGGIN' WONDER!) Apparently, this
is something she did with at least one dog in each of her 20+ student
classes, as there was always at least ONE barker. I don't know if it was a
variation on the technique you describe, or if it is something else
entirely. I have read very few parts of Koehler, and those I did read
horrified me.
When I wouldn't do that, I was chastised, as I was not a professional dog
trainer so how could I possibly know what was good for my dog? Also I was
young and should listen to my elders. I got my damn money back and tried to
train her on my own. (This is one of the things that has led me to dog
training as a profession. I felt that there had to be a better way.)
<SFB>
sionnach
"Jenn" wrote:
>
> The first time I took a dog to Obed. Classes, the trainer became very
upset
> that my dog continued to vocalize throughout class. She told me about W.
> Koehler, and this method she got from reading his stuff which she called
the
> "Bark or Breathe" technique.
>She put a very fine choke chain around my GSD's
> neck and hung her until she shut up (NO FRIGGIN' WONDER!) Apparently, this
> is something she did with at least one dog in each of her 20+ student
> classes, as there was always at least ONE barker.
Oh. My. God. I would say "You've got to be kidding!", but I know you're
not. :-( I read Koehler a **long** time ago (probably 20 years ago) but I
don't recall any such thing as "bark or breathe". I *do* recall that his
recommendation of "stringing up" or "hanging" a dog was NOT as part of his
regular training method, but rather in the section on dealing with what he
called "real hoods".
>I don't know if it was a
> variation on the technique you describe, or if it is something else
> entirely.
I think it's something else entirely! The technique, as I know of it (NOT,
AFAIK, as recommended by Koehler) is an emergency-only thing- as when Jack
used it to protect Gussie. There wasn't any intent to "train" the dog- his
aim, pure and simple, was to keep the dog from mauling either Gus or himself
until the owner arrived to control it.
I should also say that as I've heard it described and seen it used,
there's no aim or attempt to *choke* the dog- just to keep it off-balance
and at arm's length to prevent it from getting a grip on anyone- whereas
IIRC, Koehler recommends actually keeping the dog off the ground until it
starts to strangle. :-P
> I have read very few parts of Koehler, and those I did read
> horrified me.
One of these days I'll have to re-read it, just to evaluate the actual
training method with a more informed eye; I already know that I don't
approve of most of his methods for problem dogs. (Beating with a strap,
taping things in the dog's mouth, etc.)
>
> When I wouldn't do that, I was chastised, as I was not a professional dog
> trainer so how could I possibly know what was good for my dog? Also I was
> young and should listen to my elders.
Ugh. What a nasty experience!
>I got my damn money back
Good for you.
>and tried to
> train her on my own. (This is one of the things that has led me to dog
> training as a profession. I felt that there had to be a better way.)
There most certainly is. I know if any "trainer" had tried "bark or
breathe" on any of *my* dogs, I'd have reacted the same way you did- when I
was young. Anybody trying anything like that now would end up flat on
his/her butt!
Of course, nowadays such a "trainer" would probably insist on strapping
a bark collar on the dog instead. I worked, very briefly- less than two
months- for a man who has a dog-walking business; he used to carry a shock
bark collar and stick it on any dog that barked in a way which annoyed him.
He doesn't use it much any more, since one of the things I did when I quit
was to call the owners of the dog he was using it on most, tell them that he
was making their dog aggressive, and suggest that they call a behaviourist.
The scary thing was that until I called them, they assumed that since he
was the "expert", it was OK. :-P Luckily, they listened to me, and the
behaviourist they called told them I was right.
Jenn
<snip>
> I think it's something else entirely! The technique, as I know of it
(NOT,
> AFAIK, as recommended by Koehler) is an emergency-only thing- as when Jack
> used it to protect Gussie. There wasn't any intent to "train" the dog- his
> aim, pure and simple, was to keep the dog from mauling either Gus or
himself
> until the owner arrived to control it.
> I should also say that as I've heard it described and seen it used,
> there's no aim or attempt to *choke* the dog- just to keep it off-balance
> and at arm's length to prevent it from getting a grip on anyone- whereas
> IIRC, Koehler recommends actually keeping the dog off the ground until it
> starts to strangle. :-P
That's what this lady did. The dog's paws were right off the ground. And it
was simply for being vocal. The dog was a working lines GSD, and she'd
"sing" as I call it, when she was stressed. I understand the need to be
heard when you have so many students (!) but to hang the dog for it? I have
NEVER seen a dog that needed to be hung!!! I can see the point of what Jack
did to Gussie, to protect himself, but hang? Pulease!
>
> One of these days I'll have to re-read it, just to evaluate the actual
> training method with a more informed eye; I already know that I don't
> approve of most of his methods for problem dogs. (Beating with a strap,
> taping things in the dog's mouth, etc.)
I'm going to have to read the whole thing one of these days too. Maybe
Halloween night after midnight when I'll be looking for a good scare......
>
> >
> > When I wouldn't do that, I was chastised, as I was not a professional
dog
> > trainer so how could I possibly know what was good for my dog? Also I
was
> > young and should listen to my elders.
>
> Ugh. What a nasty experience!
Yup. Traumatic, to be exact.
> >and tried to
> > train her on my own. (This is one of the things that has led me to dog
> > training as a profession. I felt that there had to be a better way.)
>
> There most certainly is. I know if any "trainer" had tried "bark or
> breathe" on any of *my* dogs, I'd have reacted the same way you did- when
I
> was young. Anybody trying anything like that now would end up flat on
> his/her butt!
Yup! That's what I'd do now. I wish I'd done it then, but I didn't have the
guts.
> Of course, nowadays such a "trainer" would probably insist on
strapping
> a bark collar on the dog instead.
Yes, and that is just as sad.
.
> The scary thing was that until I called them, they assumed that since
he
> was the "expert", it was OK. :-P Luckily, they listened to me, and the
> behaviourist they called told them I was right.
Good for you!!!
Jenn
sionnach
"Jenn" wrote:
> That's what this lady did. The dog's paws were right off the ground. And
it
> was simply for being vocal. The dog was a working lines GSD, and she'd
> "sing" as I call it, when she was stressed. I understand the need to be
> heard when you have so many students (!) but to hang the dog for it?
Not only abusive, but counterproductive. :-P
>I can see the point of what Jack
> did to Gussie, to protect himself, but hang?
Er, just as a point of note- Jack didn't suspend Gussie, he suspended the
dog that was attacking her. SHE was well-trained enough that he was able to
keep her from retaliating by using his voice.
It was a pretty scary experience for everyone- Jack, Gussie, spectators,
and all; only critter that *wasn't* upset was the damn Lab! (His owner was
more upset than anyone.)
> I'm going to have to read the whole thing one of these days too. Maybe
> Halloween night after midnight when I'll be looking for a good scare......
You might actually be surprised at what you find in the *beginning* of the
book. From what I remember- as I said, it was a long time ago, so my
reaction might be different now- the actual training method isn't bad.
Old-fashioned, too rigid, and not suited to all dogs, but for certain types
of dogs not the worst method.
> > Anybody trying anything like that now would end up flat on
> > his/her butt!
>
> Yup! That's what I'd do now. I wish I'd done it then, but I didn't have
the
> guts.
Heh. In my case, there's also the fact that in the intervening time, I
spent 15 years studying Kodokan Judo. I know a number of very effective
ways to flatten people. ;-D
>
> > Of course, nowadays such a "trainer" would probably insist on
> strapping
> > a bark collar on the dog instead.
>
> Yes, and that is just as sad.
Yup. I can see limited use for handler-controlled shock collars, used
properly, but I have NO use for bark collars. I don't even like the
citronella ones, though I have friends who use them for nuisance barking in
agility. Generally, people who run multiple dogs, and have a problem with
the "idle" dog(s) barking up a frenzy when another dog is being run.
> .
> > The scary thing was that until I called them, they assumed that since
> he
> > was the "expert", it was OK. :-P Luckily, they listened to me, and the
> > behaviourist they called told them I was right.
>
> Good for you!!!
It wasn't easy to do- very awkward, especially as I'm basically a
competitor with the guy now*- but I was NOT about to let him turn that nice
Chessie into a biter, which is where the situation was heading.
*Not, mind you, that I'm any threat to him financially; I have no more
than five or six clients at any given time, while he has 40 or more.
Jenn
>
> "Jenn" wrote:
>
> > That's what this lady did. The dog's paws were right off the ground. And
> it
> > was simply for being vocal. The dog was a working lines GSD, and she'd
> > "sing" as I call it, when she was stressed. I understand the need to be
> > heard when you have so many students (!) but to hang the dog for it?
>
> Not only abusive, but counterproductive. :-P
Yes! I can see that point now, but at the time I was too emotional.
> >I can see the point of what Jack
> > did to Gussie, to protect himself, but hang?
>
> Er, just as a point of note- Jack didn't suspend Gussie, he suspended
the
> dog that was attacking her. SHE was well-trained enough that he was able
to
> keep her from retaliating by using his voice.
Oops. My mistake.
> It was a pretty scary experience for everyone- Jack, Gussie, spectators,
> and all; only critter that *wasn't* upset was the damn Lab! (His owner was
> more upset than anyone.)
Were I that owner, I would be too. But knowing what I know now I'd be upset
at my own ineptitude in making my dog that aggressive.
>
>
> > I'm going to have to read the whole thing one of these days too. Maybe
> > Halloween night after midnight when I'll be looking for a good
scare......
>
> You might actually be surprised at what you find in the *beginning* of
the
> book. From what I remember- as I said, it was a long time ago, so my
> reaction might be different now- the actual training method isn't bad.
> Old-fashioned, too rigid, and not suited to all dogs, but for certain
types
> of dogs not the worst method.
As you said before, it's the problem-solvers section that I have read. I
probably will be suprised at the regular method. I won't be suprised if I
recongnize some of it as how my pareents trained our dogs before I was old
enough to have a say!
> > > Anybody trying anything like that now would end up flat on
> > > his/her butt!
> >
> > Yup! That's what I'd do now. I wish I'd done it then, but I didn't have
> the
> > guts.
>
> Heh. In my case, there's also the fact that in the intervening time, I
> spent 15 years studying Kodokan Judo. I know a number of very effective
> ways to flatten people. ;-D
ACK! I won't piss YOU off! <G>
But, does that "gentleman" who you are in competition with still use a bark
collar? Did you ever wonder how many of his "clients" may have been
euthanized due to his use of it? I'm really curious about that now.
Jenn
sionnach
"Jenn" wrote:
> Were I that owner, I would be too. But knowing what I know now I'd be
upset
> at my own ineptitude in making my dog that aggressive.
Hrm. I *think* the Lab was a rescue; I know the owner had worked with him
on a lot of "issues"; I know he had been attacked by a Rott at some point in
the past and therefore "didn't like Rottwielers"; and I know she'd had
problems with him bolting out of the ring in the past. I also think he's
just plain a bit unstable.
(It is unusual enough for a Lab to make an unprovoked attack like that-
he targeted Gussie from a couple hundred feet away- and even more odd for a
male dog to attack a female.)
Where the owner really screwed up was in having the dog on a down-stay
under the scoring table, dropping the leash, and getting involved enough in
conversation that she wasn't aware A. that there was a Rottie in the ring
and B. of her dog.
She's now running another dog, which she's had from baby puppyhood, and
has no problems.
> . I won't be suprised if I
> recongnize some of it as how my pareents trained our dogs before I was old
> enough to have a say!
Yup, that may very well be the case. <G>
.
> >
> > Heh. In my case, there's also the fact that in the intervening time, I
> > spent 15 years studying Kodokan Judo. I know a number of very effective
> > ways to flatten people. ;-D
>
> ACK! I won't piss YOU off! <G>
Weeel- one, it takes a heck of a lot to piss me off (though physically
assaulting one of my dogs is sure-fire way to do it!) and two, even when
seriously steamed I tend to use words. <G>
>
> But, does that "gentleman" who you are in competition with still use a
bark
> collar?
He still carries it, and still uses it on his own dog. I haven't actually
seen it on any client dogs since he "got in trouble" for using it. He has,
at least, stopped recommending bark collars to people with aggressive dogs!
>Did you ever wonder how many of his "clients" may have been
> euthanized due to his use of it?
Absolutely. :-( I'm pretty sure that one, a Lab, was. I don't know for
100 % sure that he turned her into a biter with the bark collar, but I DO
know that she used to alarm-bark at people (the way some Labs will), that he
was in the habit of using the bark collar on dogs that did so, that she was
NOT a biter before he started walking her, and that during the two months I
worked for him she bit several people.
I also know that he "didn't want to tell the owner" about the bites
because (he claimed) he was pretty sure she'd put the dog down if he did,
and that nobody at the park has seen the dog since shortly after the second
incident I witnessed.
The evidence is fairly strong that he turned a nice little Lab into a
serious "silent biter".
>I'm really curious about that now.
I wish I had hard evidence on some of the stuff this guy does; problem is
that while I *know* about the things he does- having seen it firsthand- I
can't *prove* them. And coming from me, it just sounds like bad-mouthing
since I'm in the same sort of business. Though several of his former clients
are down on him at this point- especially the people whose dog ran away from
him and turned up at a police station fifteen miles away.
On top of everything else, he damages the reputation of dog walkers and dog
owners because he takes huge numbers of dogs, doesn't properly screen them
for aggression or behavioural problems, and fails to adequately control
them.
Jerry Howe
"Jenn" <pywh...@powersurfEr.com> wrote in message
news:F1Nt7.2882$Nq1.2...@news-rep.ab.videon.ca...
>
> "sionnach" <rhyf...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
> news:9p7m61$g99nc$1...@ID-45033.news.dfncis.de...
> <snipped for bandwidth>
> > In 31 years of dealing with dogs, I've seen it used exactly
> > **once**:
Our friend dogman admits to over a hundred dog's he's needed to save
from the needle by hanging those now grateful former hoodlum dogs in
training. lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and lying frosty dahl, Emily~ and
several other of our thugs including sionnach will defen the practice
with all sorts of false scenarios. The bottom line is if ya don't choke
shock or beat dogs in training you don't PISS THEM OFF and NEED to HANG
THEM. The koehler method PLANS on the dog turning on his brutal handler,
that's why the TECHNIQUES. He teaches five different methods of HANGING
a dog.
> The first time I took a dog to Obed. Classes, the trainer became
> very upset that my dog continued to vocalize throughout class. She
> told me about W. Koehler, and this method she got from reading
> his stuff which she called the "Bark or Breathe" technique.
Well la, di, dah.
> She put a very fine choke chain around my GSD's neck and hung
> her until she shut up (NO FRIGGIN' WONDER!) Apparently, this
> is something she did with at least one dog in each of her 20+
> student classes, as there was always at least ONE barker.
Does my ass look fat in these pants? Hmm?
> I don't know
Yeah, well I don't want to take the chance. I think I'll go put
something else on instead...
> if it was a variation on the technique you describe, or if it is
> something else entirely.
You still don't get it, do you? Your pal sinovabitch and company are
lying dog abusing Thugs. They intentionally twist every iota of
whatever bits of truth they're forced to cop to, and even in the face of
your direct personal experience, they'll collectively try to convince
you
otherwise to what you've seen for yourself.
They make me question my own word sometimes so I have to go back and
look to see if we're talking about the same damned thing. These people
are EXPERT LIARS.
Take a look at ed w of pet loss dot CON. He talks about smegma,
pedophilia, and N.A.M.B.L.A. and then blames me for bringing that off
topic vulgar mental crap into our dog forum.
Take for example lying frosty dahl discussing her 'stick fetch' where
she ties the dog to a tree and throws a bumper out of his reach, and
then fires his ass up with a 30"-40" hickory switch to make him "really
dig in."
The dirtbag calls me a liar because she never said "really dig in." She
said "to make him realy dig OUT to AVOID THE STICK." But noooo, she's
not BEATING THE DOG...AND I'M THE LIAR!
> I have read very few parts of Koehler, and those I did read
> horrified me.
Those are the parts that "nobody uses anyMOORE," despite the repeated
warnings throughout the text not to vary or improvise on the method
because disasterous results are GUARANTEED. He has all the excuses to
lay the blame for DEAD DOGS like Fritz, back on bad breeding or an
ineffecitive, lienient handler... IT'S ALL IN THE BOOK PEOPLE. When our
koehler trainers deny using the entire method... they're koehler
trainers... people. koehler trainers DO NOT STRAY from the method. Ask
ron hardin but first read "the saga of Annie".
> When I wouldn't do that, I was chastised, as I was not a
> professional dog trainer so how could I possibly know what was
> good for my dog?
That's EXACTLY what our pals here say. They're the "experts" who train
dogs to unbelievable heights before introducing them to the tols of
advanced training, and complain that Mailyn and Canis55 are not expert
trainers because they don't do ring or field trial work or shitshounds
therefore they could have no idea what's required to do the "ADVANCED"
work of huntin a birdie or doin the obedience and utility ring...That's
more bunk people.
> Also I was young and should listen to my elders.
Your pal roo has told Marilyn she'd killfile her if she discussed dog
training with me on our forum as many others have likewise tried to pull
on posters in agreement with me, in addition to harrassment, phone
calls, viruses, and junk email flooding... we got some nasty people here
who must be outed.
> I got my damn money back and tried to train her on my own.
Good for you. Your story is much like Paul B's recent history with his
dog. I'll go to bat for anyone as expert witness FOR FREE to prosecute
criminally or recover civil damages for harm caused as consequence of
abuse by any of our vicious dog abusing Thug trainers like janet boss on
behalf of that little dog in "interested in hearing" or boob maida or
anyone, including the world famous capn't arthur haggarty or the damned
monkeysofnotsonewskeete.
> (This is one of the things that has led me to dog
> training as a profession. I felt that there had to be a better way.)
Welcome to Wits' End Dog Training. j;~]
> <SFB>
Here's two MOORE who've learned the hard way:
Jerry Howe
Your pal sinofabitch is a LIAR. These Thugs are USED to lying about what
they do, THAT'S WHY they're THUGS. j;~}
"Jenn" <pywh...@powersurfEr.com> wrote in message
news:vYSt7.2992$Nq1.2...@news-rep.ab.videon.ca...
Jenn
>
> "Jenn" wrote:
> > Were I that owner, I would be too. But knowing what I know now I'd be
> upset
> > at my own ineptitude in making my dog that aggressive.
>
another dog, which she's had from baby puppyhood, and
> has no problems.
>
> >Did you ever wonder how many of his "clients" may have been
> > euthanized due to his use of it?
>
> Absolutely. :-( I'm pretty sure that one, a Lab, was. I don't know for
> 100 % sure that he turned her into a biter with the bark collar, but I DO
> know that she used to alarm-bark at people (the way some Labs will), that
he
> was in the habit of using the bark collar on dogs that did so, that she
was
> NOT a biter before he started walking her, and that during the two months
I
> worked for him she bit several people.
> I also know that he "didn't want to tell the owner" about the bites
> because (he claimed) he was pretty sure she'd put the dog down if he did,
> and that nobody at the park has seen the dog since shortly after the
second
> incident I witnessed.
> The evidence is fairly strong that he turned a nice little Lab into a
> serious "silent biter".
>
Jenn
sionnach
"Jenn" wrote:
> >
> This is aweful. Too bad you can't carry around a hidden camera.......
Believe me, my friend Dani and I, and my client/friend Colleen, have
discussed this possibility a number of times.
Problem is that a LOT of what he does he only does when others (i.e.
anyone who's not working for him) aren't around- things like going shopping
after a walk, and leaving five or six dogs unattended in his Jeep for an
hour or more, or the bark-collar thing. He HAS gotten in legal trouble
several times, most recently for letting a number of his client dogs get
into somebody's yard.
Unfortunately, one of his clients (who has him walk her dog 7 days a week)
is a judge, so she pulls strings for him.
One of the few things he does which would be fairly easy to document is to
hook the dogs together in pairs because he can't adequately control or
supervise them. This results in the smaller or less dominant dog being
forcibly dragged around by whatever dog J. thinks needs to be "controlled",
getting its neck and shoulders yanked in sudden, weird ways, and sometimes
nearly strangling.
But even if we could document this, we have no way of letting the owners
know- in most cases, we haven't got a clue who they are.
Jerry Howe
ear would be acceptable here... j;!}
"sionnach" <rhyf...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:9pa419$h7dfk$1...@ID-45033.news.dfncis.de...
Tricia9999
hand your leash and dog over to an instructor. Remember, anyone can call
themselves a dog trainer, and your dog relies on you to protect him/her.
I have seen damage done to dogs time after time because they are used as
examples by the 'trainier' in a class. I always tell puppy people that until
they get to know the trainer/instructor and can decide for themselves about
their competence, do not lend your dog for a demo.
Jenn
"Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:wMUt7.75387$Dz6.1...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> Hello jenn,
>
> Your pal sinofabitch is a LIAR. These Thugs are USED to lying about what
> they do, THAT'S WHY they're THUGS. j;~}
Well, she is my "pal". I like her. I don't think she's a liar. I do think
you and she have different definitions of things like "the alpha roll". I
have a different definition of the alpha roll than she does.
Doesn't mean I'm going to stop talking with her.
Unless, of course, she decides to stop talking with me because I always talk
to you.
Jenn
Jenn
> Hello Jenn,
>
> "Jenn" <pywh...@powersurfEr.com> wrote in message
> news:F1Nt7.2882$Nq1.2...@news-rep.ab.videon.ca...
The bottom line is if ya don't choke
> shock or beat dogs in training you don't PISS THEM OFF and NEED to HANG
> THEM. The koehler method PLANS on the dog turning on his brutal handler,
> that's why the TECHNIQUES. He teaches five different methods of HANGING
> a dog.
I agree with you here, Jerry.
> You still don't get it, do you? Your pal sinovabitch and company are
> lying dog abusing Thugs. They intentionally twist every iota of
> whatever bits of truth they're forced to cop to, and even in the face of
> your direct personal experience, they'll collectively try to convince
> you
> otherwise to what you've seen for yourself.
I think I can make my own decisions, thank you.
>
> Take a look at ed w of pet loss dot CON. He talks about smegma,
> pedophilia, and N.A.M.B.L.A. and then blames me for bringing that off
> topic vulgar mental crap into our dog forum.
I don't care about that. I avoid reading those types of posts.
>
> Take for example lying frosty dahl discussing her 'stick fetch' where
> she ties the dog to a tree and throws a bumper out of his reach, and
> then fires his ass up with a 30"-40" hickory switch to make him "really
> dig in."
>
> The dirtbag calls me a liar because she never said "really dig in." She
> said "to make him realy dig OUT to AVOID THE STICK." But noooo, she's
> not BEATING THE DOG...AND I'M THE LIAR!
I have read Amy's stick fetch page. I think you are exaggerating. I wouldn't
do the stick fetch stuff as outlined there, beacuse I prefer not to touch a
dog while training. It is counterproductive, as it usually induces the
opposition reflex, IMLE. Plus I am not training retreivers in hunting. I
like Amy's posts. If she doesn't know about something, she says so, and if
she does, she states that it is her opinion and that there are other
opinions to consider. She never says it's her way or the highway.
> and complain that Mailyn and Canis55 are not expert
> trainers because they don't do ring or field trial work or shitshounds
> therefore they could have no idea what's required to do the "ADVANCED"
> work of huntin a birdie or doin the obedience and utility ring...That's
> more bunk people.
>
I also agree here, as I don't think you can't train a dog if you don't do
the advanced stuff. Not everyone needs the advanced stuff. Most people are
justing looking for a dog they can live with.
> Your pal roo has told Marilyn she'd killfile her if she discussed dog
> training with me on our forum as many others have likewise tried to pull
> on posters in agreement with me,
I think that's sad in Marilyn's case, as she has great insight and advice.
She's a worthwhile poster IMO. I didn't think so at first (sorry Marilyn!)
but then I read her book. She's also not abusive, and I beleive she's
genuine.
Other posters, like Charlie Wilkes, I have killfiled as his posts just drive
me insane. So do half of your posts, but I had you killfiled too. Now I just
skip the stuff that I have read over, and over, and over........ I know you
want people to read that stuff, but after a while it's just background
noise, knowwadimean?
I'll get killfiled for talking to you, I know that. It bothers me on a
personal level that I could actually be so offensive as to be grouped in
with trolls and kooks. Otherwise, I try not to care as I enjoy our little
discussions. No one else has to read them if they don't want to.
> > (This is one of the things that has led me to dog
> > training as a profession. I felt that there had to be a better way.)
>
> Welcome to Wits' End Dog Training. j;~]
> Here's two MOORE who've learned the hard way:
>
> misty" <Mom...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:6946-3B6...@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
I've read and chatted to misty. I've cited the exact post you quote as a
reason why NOT to buy an efence.
> Rober Crim writes:
I miss Robert. Even though he seemed to hate Canadians! It is horrible what
happened to Fritz. I'd love to hear more Rollei stories though. I'm sure
Rollei is doing great!
Jenn
Jenn
>
> "Jenn" wrote:
>
> > >
> > This is aweful. Too bad you can't carry around a hidden camera.......
>
> Believe me, my friend Dani and I, and my client/friend Colleen, have
> discussed this possibility a number of times.
> Problem is that a LOT of what he does he only does when others (i.e.
> anyone who's not working for him) aren't around- things like going
shopping
> after a walk, and leaving five or six dogs unattended in his Jeep for an
> hour or more, or the bark-collar thing. He HAS gotten in legal trouble
> several times, most recently for letting a number of his client dogs get
> into somebody's yard.
> Unfortunately, one of his clients (who has him walk her dog 7 days a
week)
> is a judge, so she pulls strings for him.
Now THAT sucks. Do you have a friend in law enforcement who might, on a day
off, come and hang around the dog park in plain clothes? S/he could borrow
one of your dogs so it looks like s/he belongs there, and sit under a tree
seeing harmless......
Jenn
Jerry Howe
"Jenn" <pywh...@powersurfEr.com> wrote in message
news:L13u7.3028$Nq1.2...@news-rep.ab.videon.ca...
>
> "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:wMUt7.75387$Dz6.1...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> > Hello jenn,
> > Your pal sinofabitch is a LIAR. These Thugs are USED to lying
> > about what they do, THAT'S WHY they're THUGS. j;~}
> Well, she is my "pal".
You're welcome to keep whatever company you so desire...
> I like her.
She's a dog abuser and a liar.
> I don't think she's a liar.
She assaulted and comitted mayhem on a dog to teach him not to pull on
lead, and denies it.
> I do think you and she have different definitions of things like "the
> alpha roll".
The dog was pulling out of control. She threw the dog to the ground and
NIPPED IT on the ear. That's assault, battery, and MAYHEM, where I come
from. Not to mention the prerequisite jerking and choking she MUST have
done to the dog prior to attacking him.
> I have a different definition of the alpha roll than she does.
That puppy don't give a good goddamn about your semantics. The pup was
assaulted and battered with MALICE, and that's MAYHEM.
> Doesn't mean I'm going to stop talking with her.
You're welcome to slum with whomever you choose.
> Unless, of course, she decides to stop talking with me because I
> always talk to you.
Figure it out. You ain't gonna learn nuthin but lying and inflicting
pain on dogs from our lying, dog abusing Thugs. I sure wouldn't want you
to become unpupular... so perhaps you should refrain from trying to
improve yourself as it won't look respectable to her and roo and lying
frosty dahl and lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
Ask candace...
> Jenn
>
>
Rocky
news:IQ3u7.3033$Nq1.2...@news-rep.ab.videon.ca:
> I miss Robert. Even though he seemed to hate Canadians!
I was here during much of Crim's tenure. I must have missed
something.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Jenn
"Rocky" <ma...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns912DAB5EBCC11au...@130.133.1.4...
Just one example.....retrieved from Googol
>Robert Crim wrote:
>
>> Yawn, stretch, scratch ones self. Just another dumb Canadian out
>> after Dogman. Sigh.
>>
>> Robert
Only one I could find on short notice, and it was in a joking context. There
was a Matt Bonner in that thread, a Canadian, who was excepted from the
"dumb" Canadian thread that followed. I don't know if that was you or not.
Jenn
Rocky
news:Hc7u7.3051$Nq1.2...@news-rep.ab.videon.ca:
> Only one I could find on short notice, and it was in a
> joking context. There was a Matt Bonner in that thread, a
> Canadian, who was excepted from the "dumb" Canadian thread
> that followed.
I thought that I was lurking during that time. Gad, my mind
wobbles.
Northern Skies Labs
you're almost as annoying as Howe and he made my killfile a long time ago.
Please consider adding to the signal to noise ratio instead of the noise.
But for now Goodbye and welcome to my killfile.
Steve
"Candace" <can...@wirebird.com> wrote in message
news:dv4bp9...@lists.wirebird.com...
> In <qoUt7.75161$Dz6.1...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
> , Jerry said:
>
> >Doggy Do Right and Jerry Howe
>
> Jerry attributes all manner of effects to his Doggy Do Right device, which
> (along with getting attention) is his reason for posting to rpdb. He
expects
> his claims to be accepted without proof, and refuses to provide any
citations
> of independent testing, while dismissing any countercites as invalid. He
> claims it works by "magick", which could account for how the dogs are
> supposed to listen when it "can't be 'heard'" (in message-id
> <fXZf7.723%24zk4...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com).
>
> Jerry claims (in the same message) that it works at about 100 dB. That's
> about the volume of a subway train.
> In <6uzZ6.47060%24_T2.1...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, Jerry claims that
it
> isn't loud, and the frequency is "about 34k." Dogs can hear up to 45 kHz,
> cats up to 70 kHz. Many humans can hear up to 40 kHz, although this
ability is
> usually lost by adulthood.
>
> Technical detail and references are available at
> <URL: http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/doright.html>
>
> >Margaret Hoffman
>
> Jerry cites Margaret Hoffman and Chelsea as one of his success stories.
> However, "Margaret" claims that Jerry worked personally with Chelsea,
> which Jerry claims he does not do.
>
> >training. lying I LOVE Koehler Lynn and lying frosty Dahl, Emily~ and
>
> Jerry frequently describes other posters as "proven liars,", but if
> asked for this supposed "proof," will dismiss the questioner with
> instructions to ask the accused "liar." A little thought will reveal
> the logic behind this request - killfiles distress Jerry greatly, so he
> uses this tactic to get others to do his harassing for him, since he can
> no longer reach his target. In general, if you have a question about
> whether someone "really did" what Jerry accuses themof, you can visit my
> website at <URL:http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/>where the truth is
> documented.
>
> Specific examples:
<URL:http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/provenlie.html>
>
> >are EXPERT LIARS.
>
> Jerry frequently describes other posters as "proven liars,", but if
> asked for this supposed "proof," will dismiss the questioner with
> instructions to ask the accused "liar." A little thought will reveal
> the logic behind this request - killfiles distress Jerry greatly, so he
> uses this tactic to get others to do his harassing for him, since he can
> no longer reach his target. In general, if you have a question about
> whether someone "really did" what Jerry accuses themof, you can visit my
> website at <URL:http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/>where the truth is
> documented.
>
> Specific examples:
<URL:http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/provenlie.html>
>
> >behalf of that little dog in interested in hearing or Bob Maida or
>
> Jerry often refers readers to the 'interested in hearing' thread. Many
have
> taken his advice and read the thread, only to find that Jerry has
completely
> misrepresented it. The "little" dog was a mix between a beagle and
> something larger. Janet never "overlooked" any electronic containment
> system. The dog already had the behavior problems Janet describes (and
> which Jerry often amplifies, and/or blames Janet for) when Janet was
called
> in. And "killing the dog to be fair" is found in only one person's
replies
> to that thread... Jerry's.
>
> >Take for example lying frosty Dahl discussing her 'stick fetch' where
>
> Jerry frequently misrepresents the "stick fetch," hoping that the casual
> newsgroup reader will simply take his word that it's some sort of cruel
> treatment, rather than a typical, if advanced, retriever training step.
> He depends on lazy readers to support him, since any amount of research
> quickly reveals that Jerry is pursuing a vendetta.
>
> There is a simple explanation of the stick fetch at
> <URL:http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/stickfetch.html> where non-lazy
> readers can make an informed decision.
>
> >because disasterous results are GUARANTEED. He has all the excuses to
>
> Jerry originally claimed his machine was "100% guaranteed" to break
> bad behaviors, with a "lifetime money back" claim. Recently,
> however, his claim has changed; the machine now is merely "guaranteed"
> at an unspecified percentage, and it now breaks "most" behaviors - for
> instance: "If my machine isn't breaking the digging, it's safe to
> presume the digging is just play..." was offered as an explanation
> in <nPl27.87166$HJ1.2...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>.
>
> >Please feel free to post this email as it has no copyright on it as
>
> Jerry frequently reminds rpdb readers that he holds the copyright to his
> web pages. However, he often posts private email, web pages, books, or
> other copyrighted material with the claim that his purposes justify the
> violation. However, Jerry posts through Usenetserver, whose Terms and
> Conditions can be found at
<URL:http://www.usenetserver.com/termscond.html>.
> In part, this page says: " You represent and warrant that any content
> you distribute or receive through your Account (a) shall not infringe on
> any third party's copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret or other
> proprietary rights or rights of publicity or privacy...".
>
> >training. lying I LOVE Koehler Lynn and lying frosty Dahl, Emily~ and
>
> Jerry attempts to paint Koehler as the Antichrist of dog training, using
> selective quoting and other methods to give a biased impression of the
> training techniques (and to imply that all Koehler-based trainers use
> all the harshest techniques, and on every dog they train). There is a
> more balanced explanation of the positive and negative aspects of the
> Koehler method at <URL:http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/koehler.html.>
>
> >Your pal roo has told Marilyn she'd killfile her if she discussed dog
>
> Any doubt about Jerry's purpose on rpdb can be quickly dispelled by
> noting how agitated he becomes when denying that anyone "really"
> killfiles him. It is apparently very important to him that he be the
> center of the newsgroup's attention, and his behavior becomes more
> outrageous if he feels he is being ignored. It is the purpose of this
> virtual border collie to refute his claims without providing him human
> interaction - it is strongly suggested that the humans in the newsgroup
> killfile him to avoid this.
>
> A copy of Mark Shaw's excellent killfile FAQ, posted to rpdb weekly, is
also
> available at <URL:http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/killfile.html>.
>
> >from the needle by hanging those now grateful former hoodlum dogs in
>
> William Koehler, and most other dog trainers, suggest picking a dog up by
its
> lead (effectively "hanging" it) in the event of an actual attack. This is
not,
> despite Jerry's claims, a training technique, but simple self-defense.
The
> parallel with a similar autoerotic technique is probably the source of
Jerry's
> fascination with attributing this as a "training technique" to female
> trainers.
>
>
> --
> Candace, the virtual border collie: http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/
> If you're new here, you will probably want to promptly read Mark Shaw's
> excellent weekly posting "How to set up and use a killfile", archived
> on my site at <URL:http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/killfile.html>
>
Kind2dogs
>Own P (Jerry)
>From: ma...@rocky-dog.com (Rocky)
>Date: Mon, Oct 1, 2001 6:51 PM
>Message-id: <Xns912DAB5EBCC11au...@130.133.1.4>
Me too.
Paulette~
Never explain.
Your friends don't need it,
And your enemies won't believe it anyway...
A dogs life is too short...
Their only fault really...
sionnach
"Jenn" wrote:
> I have a different definition of the alpha roll than she does.
Ok, so now I'm curious. <G> How is your definition different? BTW, as a sort
of test, I rolled the Lab on her side yesterday- exactly the way I did it
the first time, minus the growl. (She is now just over two, and weighs 85-90
lb to my 103.) She thought it was fun, which was the reaction I expected.
Incidentally, I originally developed the sideways roll in the days when I
used to play-wrestle with a 90-lb Doberman; it was part of our game. It's
nowhere near as forceful as it sounds.
> Unless, of course, she decides to stop talking with me because I always
talk
> to you.
Heh. Since I'm one of the few "regulars" who doesn't have Jerry killfiled,
not likely! Incidentally, I don't think anybody's got me killfiled because I
sometimes answer him; those who get killfiled, AFIAK, are mostly the ones
who don't contribute anything else.
Jenn
>
> "Jenn" wrote:
>
> > I have a different definition of the alpha roll than she does.
>
> Ok, so now I'm curious. <G> How is your definition different?
I think of the alpha roll as any way of "putting" a dog on its side or back.
If they don't willingly do it, it is an alpha roll. No matter how kind or
rough.
Please, I don't want to start the whole things all over again! This is just
how I see it.
>BTW, as a sort
> of test, I rolled the Lab on her side yesterday- exactly the way I did it
> the first time, minus the growl. (She is now just over two, and weighs
85-90
> lb to my 103.) She thought it was fun, which was the reaction I expected.
That's cool. Glad she thought it was fun. I've seen dogs roll each other in
play. Quite often, as a matter of fact. Anja does it to Frodo on an hourly
basis, I think, and he thinks it's greeat fun!
>
> Incidentally, I originally developed the sideways roll in the days when
I
> used to play-wrestle with a 90-lb Doberman; it was part of our game. It's
> nowhere near as forceful as it sounds.
>
> > Unless, of course, she decides to stop talking with me because I always
> talk
> > to you.
>
> Heh. Since I'm one of the few "regulars" who doesn't have Jerry
killfiled,
> not likely! Incidentally, I don't think anybody's got me killfiled because
I
> sometimes answer him; those who get killfiled, AFIAK, are mostly the ones
> who don't contribute anything else.
Well, I still expect to see a <plonk> after one of my posts. I seriously am
trying the WEDTM with Frodo. So far results are good. I've read all there is
to read against the WEDTM, (as to whether he wrote it or not, etc.) but it
is still all there, in compact form, and it is worth a good effort to see if
it works like Jerry proclaims. I'm going to give it another week or so
before I start reporting on it. I find it interesting that I have stated for
all to see that I am trying it, yet he still insists on yelling at me
occassionally for continuing to chat with you et al.
Jenn
Jenn
computer programme designed to automatically reply to Jerry's posts.
Candace actually recommends that we killfile her.
Jenn
"Northern Skies Labs" <sedw...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:0fhu7.590683$EF2.83...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
> "plonk"
>
> you're almost as annoying as Howe and he made my killfile a long time ago.
> Please consider adding to the signal to noise ratio instead of the noise.
> But for now Goodbye and welcome to my killfile.
>
> Steve
>
>
> "Candace" <can...@wirebird.com> wrote in message
> news:dv4bp9...@lists.wirebird.com...
> > In <qoUt7.75161$Dz6.1...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
<snipped>
Jerry Howe
him.....
BWWWWAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAHAHAAA!!!
Get outta here you Thug. j;~}
"sionnach" <rhyf...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:9pcpdg$hrlt1$1...@ID-45033.news.dfncis.de...
Jerry Howe
"Jenn" <pywh...@powersurfEr.com> wrote in message
>
> "sionnach" <rhyf...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
> news:9pcpdg$hrlt1$1...@ID-45033.news.dfncis.de...
> > "Jenn" wrote:
> > > I have a different definition of the alpha roll than she does.
> > Ok, so now I'm curious. <G> How is your definition different?
> I think of the alpha roll as any way of "putting" a dog on its side or
> back. If they don't willingly do it, it is an alpha roll. No matter
how
> kind or rough.
The dog in question was ASSULTED, BATTERED, and committed MAYHEM against
in a fit of rage by our professional dog walker sinofabitch...who lost
her TEMPER at him and flew OUT of CONTROL and attacked the pup because
jerking and choking him didn't work and she became enraged enough to
attack the puppy.
> Please, I don't want to start the whole things all over again! This is
> just how I see it.
You think there's any way to justify that? Maybe you didn't read the
original. I'll copy it below for your consideration...
> >BTW, as a sort of test, I rolled the Lab on her side yesterday-
> > exactly the way I did it the first time, minus the growl.
No. Not exactly. The dog wasn't pulling her out of control and PISSING
HER OFF.
> > (She is now just over two, and weighs 85-90 lb to my 103.)
> > She thought it was fun, which was the reaction I expected.
> That's cool. Glad she thought it was fun. I've seen dogs roll each
> other in play. Quite often, as a matter of fact. Anja does it to Frodo
> on an hourly basis, I think, and he thinks it's greeat fun!
Are we having FUN yet jenn? THAT'S NOT WHAT SHE DID BEFORE.
> >Incidentally, I originally developed the sideways roll in the days
> > when I used
Jerk, choke, shock, beat, and hang dogs?
> > to play-wrestle with a 90-lb Doberman; it was part of our game.
Nobody was PLAYING when our lying dog abusing Thug lost her temper and
attacked the lab puppy.
> > It's nowhere near as forceful as it sounds.
The lab puppy was out of control and lunging and you were clearly ANGRY
at her.
> > > Unless, of course, she decides to stop talking with me because
> > > I always talk to you.
I LIKE it when our "experts" talk. That's where I get some of the most
damning, incriminating evidence to prove we're dealing with lying, dog
abusing Thugs. That's where I find all those lengthy, scathing,
contradictory posts your lying dog abusing Thugs tell you not to
believe... like THIS one, for EXAMPLE.
> > Heh. Since I'm one of the few "regulars" who doesn't have Jerry
> > killfiled,
Our Gang Of Thugs read my posts first.
> > not likely!
They ain't gonna like their pals talking training with me because that
tends to get incriminating INFORMATION happening...
> > Incidentally, I don't think anybody's got me killfiled
Your pal sinofabitch mostly posts telling people to killfile me. She
seldom talks dog training that's why she didn't teach us all HOWE to do
sideways rollover lie and ear attack.
> > because I sometimes answer him;
No, sinovabitch does not answer me, she WARNS posters about beileving
me, and uses this same kind of LOGIC??? to LIE to them.
> > those who get killfiled, AFIAK, are mostly the ones
> > who don't contribute anything else.
Why didn't our pal sinofabitch share this valuable alphaside roll/ear
notbitenip leash training tool?
> Well, I still expect to see a <plonk> after one of my posts.
They did that to Robert Crim after he killed Fritz and realized Jerry
was right... REMEMBER?
> I seriously am trying the WEDTM with Frodo. So far results are
> good.
I'm surprised. The WEDTM method requires a clear mind so as not to
pollute the method and counteract our positive efforts and poison out
dog's mind with negativeity, anxiety and corrections... That won't
happen if telling a dog NO is not contrary or corrective or isn't
intended to demean, scold, or punish... telling a dog NO in
confrontation or correction even once may confound the method.
It's kinda liek being able to determine the difference between friendly
play and aggression. Unless we speak doggie talkie from the original
GREEK, we probably shouldn't confuse our dogs with pleasures today that
were punishments yesterday... because that's what causes superstitious
or flashback behaviors, and gets people BIT like the out of control
labradoradog experienced when your lying dog abusing Thug pal
sinovabitch threw down on that little lab puppy and assaulted him for
pulling her on leash despite her choking him.
GOT IT?
> I've read all there is to read against the WEDTM,
Where did you read THAT, Jenn? There IS NO VALID criticism of my methods
Jenn.. Whomever may have said something against the WEDTM method must be
INTENTIONALLY trying to HARM good people here who would be GREEN ENOUGH
to believe our twenty something lying dog abusing Thugs who would rather
hurt and kill dogs than admit they're dog abusers and have you know that
Jerry is right.
> (as to whether he wrote it or not, etc.)
You got that from professora "chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap"
gingold in defending your pal lying frosty dahl's chin CHUCK and
beating dogs with sticks in her 'stick fetch.'
> but it is still all there,
I got all my information from lyingdogDUMMY and cindymooreon.
> in compact form,
I got that conciss form from professor lying doc "scruff shake" dermer
when he accepted my offer to hire him to edit my manual for pay...
> and it is worth a good effort to see if it works like Jerry proclaims.
My methods work for everyone who studies the manual and asks questions
if they encounter difficulty. There's no problem for figuring out what
we need to work on if something isn't happening as it should. I can find
the small errors that would confound you, but you got to let me know
there's something not happening as it should be.
> I'm going to give it another week or so
> before I start reporting on it.
Let's hope that you'll ask for extra help if you do not have a reliable
come command in three days... a week would put you too far behind to
easily correct an error. You should see improvements each time you
practice.
> I find it interesting that I have stated for all to see that
> I am trying it,
Well, we've also had janet boss and steve boyer "try" it by starting in
the middle and telling me the method is faulty because they didn't
find all the instructions in the "stand" command (curious they both
chose the same command,) and had the same criticisms that the method
WON'T WORK... because neither of them had read the text, only quoted a
couple of lines out of context, and called me a liar and my method a
scam to sell a mysterious black box that doesn't exist.
> yet he still insists on yelling at me
You mean about that little NO thing when you were trying to use my non
confrontational techniqes to punish a housebreaking accident? That's the
kind of problem that I need to know about to correct my students. If
dishonesty is part of the process, I don't really have much to work
with, because when I tell you the reason the method fails you, you won't
have the clear thinking to recognize that your one or two occasions of
DECONDITIONING my technique is the problem...
> occassionally for continuing to chat with you et al.
I'm of the opinion that water seeks it's own level. I'm also of the
opinion that we identify with and are identified by the company we
choose to keep. That's why I don't hang out with lying, vicious, dog
abusing Thugs, because I don't want to be considered as being associated
with scoundrels who are known to travel in those circles.
> Jenn
I'm not criticizin Jenn for chit chatting with a lying dog abusing Thug.
I'm criticizin anyone who refuses to call a spade a spade and accepts
our lying dog abusing Thug sinofabitch's fast changing account of her
story:
"NBlomgren" wrote:
> Here's what he wrote: "The next thing iam going to do is give him
> the shoeing of his life and see if that works."
> To me, that doesn't sound like he meant "shoo-ing."
> He's free to correct the misreading at any time.
Um, go back and read the entire post. In the preceding paragraph,
he said: "i shouted like crazy and chased him under a table and he
bit me when i tried to shoe him away."
My interpretation of "shoeing of his life" is that the OP intends to
chase, shout at, and try to intimidate the dog.
I have to tell you, though, that I am about 80% sure the OP is
actually a troll *(bwwwaahahahahaaa!!! J.H.). The other 20% I
suspect that the dog was initially indulged and allowed to do
whatever it wanted; a BIG mistake with a terrier.
*(check this out hahhahahaaa j.h.:) It's quite common for
ignorant owners to let them get away with things as little puppies
because they're little and "cute", which leads the little shits to
decide
they're in charge of the household, and display the sort of
possessive/dominant behaviour the OP described.
It's also, unfortunately, common for owners to react as the OP did,
with an over-reaction of shock & anger that their "sweet little puppy"
is acting that way (DUH! It's a *terrier*!!), and fear of the dog at the
same time.
Which, of course, leads to the dog not trusting the owner, and
becoming even more likely to bite; terriers tend to have a very strong
sense of fairness, and will NOT tolerate stupid handling.
Don't get me wrong, btw- I *like* terriers; I had a Welsh Terrier cross
for 14 years, and am currently (doG help me!) raising a JRT. Terriers
need calm, firm, no-nonsense handling, and are *not* a good choice
for a first-time owner. You CANNOT **force** a terrier to do anything,
and fighting with them will get you in serious trouble. But you also
cannot allow them to think they're in charge of you.
<snip crap>
At this point, my opinion is that the OP has royally screwed up in a
number of ways, and needs to do one of two things: 1. get the help of a
trainer or behaviourist who understands terriers, and rebuild a
*healthy* relationship with the dog or 2. Give the dog to a terrier
rescue group- NOT a shelter!- and get a Gund."
And this is HOWE our lying dog abusing Thug would handle a Gund:
"NBlomgren" wrote:
> The closest I came to overreacting was after taking different
> approaches to her play-biting. "No" didn't do it. "NO!" didn't work. I
> tried to say "ow" like a hurt puppy. Didn't work.
> Finally I bit her back. On the top of the head. Not hard, but she felt
> my teeth.
> Her reaction: she sat very still and looked at me. And we've never
> had a problem since.
Heh. I know that look! <G> Yup, sometimes you just plain have to
"speak dog" to 'em- some dogs just don't get it unless you do. About
18 months ago, I ended up nipping an obnoxiously exuberant Lab
puppy who was doing a hooked-fish imitation, determined that she
was going to bolt off down the trail and drag me with her.
I should explain, btw, that said "puppy" was 8 months and already 75
lb, and that I'm 4' 11 3/4" and weigh under 105; that she was
accustomed to dragging her much larger male owner around; and
that she was quite definitely testing what she could get away with, as
the previous dogwalker had been utterly unable to control her and
had refused to take her any more.
Thing was, the behavior had *worked* on the last dog-walker- when
the dog pulled the yanking, bouncing, whirling-dervish bit, she would
drop the leash & let her run! Talk about teaching bad behaviour! :-P
The "make like a tree" thing (my usual response to leash-pulling)
didn't work; yes, I could keep her from taking off, but instead of
figuring out that she needed to try a different behaviour, and giving
me something to praise, she increased the behaviour. Nor did any
attempts at verbal distraction work; she was *determined* that she
was going to yank the leash out of my hand and bolt down the trail
after other dogs.
When it was obvious that she had NO intention of paying any
attention to anything but the other dogs (and that I was in danger of
having my arm dislocated <G>), I didn't even think about it; I dropped
the leash, threw my right arm over the Lab's shoulder, grabbed her
opposite foot with my left hand, rolled her on her side, leaned on her,
said "GRRRR!" and nipped her ear (not particularly hard- I wasn't
trying to *hurt* her, just get her attention!).
Whole thing took less than a second- I immediately released her, and
she jumped up, wagging her tail, looked at me (for the first time) and
SAT. Her whole attitude was "Hey, cool! I UNDERSTAND you; I get it;
whatchu want??". I praised her, had her walk with me for about ten feet,
then asked for a sit and released her to play with the other
dogs.
We've been the best of friends ever since. :-) She's a really cool dog-
pity her owners don't have the time or desire to work with her, 'cause
I think she'd make a *great* SAR dog.
misty" <Mom...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6...@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two dogs,
> ~misty
<"Terri"@cyberhighway
Rober Crim writes:
>Terri
Hello People,
Doggy Do Right and Jerry Howe
I just recently looked at this newsgroup and I found it
> Charlie
Hi Jerry,
Please feel free to post this email as it has no copyright on it as
Jerry Howe
"Jenn" <pywh...@powersurfEr.com> wrote in message
> Steve, that's what Candace expects from us, as Candace is not a person
but a
> computer programme designed to automatically reply to Jerry's posts.
> Candace actually recommends that we killfile her.
> Jenn
Hello Jenn,
Care to discuss koehler and our pal's cindymooreon's and lying frosty
dahl's forced fetch methods which make koehler look like St. Francis?
Hello People,
I guess the natives are getting restless:
"Jesus Christ, Jerry - you really need to get it together! 99% of
your posts conatain nothing but abusive remarks to people. Go look
at what you write. An older person like you should learn to behave as
an adult.
I still don't get it, jarjar - it's ok to abuse people but not dogs?
GROW UP.
(Respond if you want, but I'll never see it since your e-mails go
straight to the trash where they belong)." Mike
That's the guy who's posted twenty times in one day to me...
> Hello People,
> Are we talking dogs yet?
From the koehler book:
"Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it's the bitter end. A real
whaling now may cut down somewhat on the number of repeat
performances that will be necessary. When you're finished and
the dog is convinced that he is," wm. koehler.
So are you, good buddy:
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem Quite Harsh And
Cause You To Cringe. This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few
Times It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."
That's awfully nice of you, huh, mikey?
> "dogzr00l" <dogz...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns90FEBABE...@209.155.56.95...
> > "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net> wrote in
> > message news:INye7.1690$7K5....@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com:
> > > I've trained hundreds of dogs
> > > from right here, without ever putting my pants on.
> > Aha! There you have it! Jerry Howe sexually abuses dogs!
> There ya go. Good for you. Bums like you are what chummed me
> in here. Now, it's a feeding frenzy. j;~}
> From: Bob Maida (bob...@aol.com)
> Subject: Re: Need Advice About Jumping (ninnyboy)
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> View complete thread (11 articles)
> Date: 2001-02-16 12:00:41 PST
> Laura,
> Better off to totally ignore him. Don't give him the attention
> and conflict he craves.His mother was a prostitute and had no
> time for him. Father?? --Unknown. They say he was part
> of a migrant worker gang bang in the Fla orchids.
> He is under house arrest (this is why no one has ever met him)
> for molesting children at Disney World. Someone here needs
> to find out the name of his probation officer and report his
> online harassing
> Bob Maida
> Dog Training/Problem Counseling since 1969
> Herndon, Virginia
> Adopt/Foster one until there are none
Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."
"The Koehler Method of Dog Training" Howell Book House, 1996
William Koehler
"Housebreaking problems":
Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment. Make certain he is equipped
with a collar and piece of line so he can't avoid correction.
When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.
Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.
It is important to your future relationship that you do
not rush at him and start swinging before you get hold of him.
When he's been spanked, take him outside. Chances
are, if you are careful in your feeding and close
observation, you will not have to do much punishing.
Be consistent in your handling. To have a pup almost
house-broken and then force him to commit an error by
not providing an opportunity to go outside is very
unfair. Careful planning will make your job easier.
The same general techniques of housebreaking apply
to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the house.
For the grown dog who was reliable in the house and
then backslides, the method of correction differs
somewhat. In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.
The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation. The
fact that he once was reliable in the house is proof
that the dog knows right from wrong, and it leaves you
no other course than to punish him sufficiently to
convince him that the satisfaction of his wrongdoing is
not worth the consequences.
If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will
continue to mess in the house. An indelible impression
can sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard
spanking of long duration, then leaving him tied by the
mess he's made so you can come back at twenty
minute intervals and punish him again for the same
thing.
In most cases, the dog that deliberately does
this disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog, as
well as the house, if you really pour it on him.
Some of the new "breaking scents" on the market can
aid in your house-breaking program. One type
discourages the dog from even visiting an
area. Another encourages him to relieve himself in the
area where it is sprinkled. Your pet shop should be
able to supply further information on the brands available in your
district.
Be fair to your dog in what and when you feed him and
be consistent in your efforts to housebreak him, and
you'll soon accomplish the job.
BARKING, WHINING, HOWLING, YODELING, SCREAMING, AND WAILING
The fact that you realize you have such a problem makes it certain
you have "reproved" the dog often enough to let him know you were
against his sound effects, even though your reproving didn't quiet
them, so we'll bypass the loudly clapped hands, the cup of water in
his face, and the "shame-shames" and start with something more
emphatic.
We'll begin with the easiest kind of vocalist to correct: the one
that charges gates, fences, doors, and windows, barking furiously at
familiar or imaginary people and objects. A few clusters of BBs from
a good slingshot, in conjunction with the light line and plenty of
temptations, will cause such a dog to use his mind rather than his
mouth.
But you won't make the permanent impression unless you
supply dozens of opportunities for him to exercise the control he
thus acquires. Make sure these opportunities don't always come at
the same time of the day, else he may learn to observe the "quiet
hour" and pursue his old routines at other times.
With the help of the light line, it will be easy to follow the BBs
with a long down to make sure he gets the most from his lesson. As
was mentioned before, eliminating the senseless barking will not
lessen the dog's value as a watchdog but rather, as he grows more
discriminating, increase it.
The dog who vocalizes in bratty protest or lonesomeness because
you're gone constitutes a different problem. If it is impractical
for someone to stay with him constantly (there are owners who cater
to neurosis by employing dog sitters), you'll have to heed
the neighbors and the law and quiet the dog. This calls for a little
ingenuity as well as a heavy hand.
Attach a line to your dog's collar, so your corrective effort
doesn't turn into a footrace around the house until you reach a
stalemate under the bed. This use of the line in the correction will
also serve to establish it as a reminder to be quiet as the dog
drags it around when you're not present. Next, equip yourself with a
man's leather belt or a strap heavy enough to give your particular
dog a good tanning.
Yup-we're going to strike him. Real hard. Remember,
you're dealing with a dog who knows he should be quiet and
neighbors who have legal rights to see that he does.
Now leave, and let your fading footsteps tell the dog of your going.
When you've walked to a point where he'll think you're gone but
where you could hear any noises he might make, stop and listen. If
you find a comfortable waiting place on a nearby porch, be careful
not to talk or laugh. Tests show a dog's hearing to be many times as
sharp as yours.
When the noise comes, instead of trying to sneak up to the door so
you can barge in while he's still barking, which is generally
impossible, respond to his first sound with an emphatic bellow of
"out," and keep on bellowing as you charge back to his area.
Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt that you've
conveniently placed, and descend on him. He'll have no chance to
dodge if you grab the line and reel him in until his front feet are
raised off the floor or, if he's a big dog, until you've snubbed him
up with a hitch on something. While he's held in close, lay the
strap vigorously against his thighs.
Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it's the bitter end. A real
whaling now may cut down somewhat on the number of repeat
performances that will be necessary.
When you're finished and the dog is convinced that he is, put him on
a long down to think things over while you catch your breath. After
fifteen or twenty minutes, release him from the stay and leave the
area again.
So that you won't feel remorseful, reflect on the truth that a great
percentage of the barkers who are given away to "good homes" end
up in the kindly black box with the sweet smell. Personally, I've
always felt that it's even better to spank children, even if they
"cry out," than to "put them to sleep."
You might have a long wait on that comfortable porch before your
dog starts broadcasting again. When he does, let your long range
bellow tie the consequent correction to his first sound and repeat
the spanking, if anything emphasizing it a bit more.
It might be necessary to spend a Saturday or another day off so that
you'll have time to follow through sufficiently. When you have a
full day, you will be able to convince him each yelp will have a bad
consequence, and the consistency will make your job easier. If he
gets away with his concert part of the time, he'll be apt to gamble
on your inconsistency.
After a half dozen corrections, "the reason and the correction" will
be tied in close enough association so that you can move in on him
without the preliminary bellowing of "out." From then on, it's just
a case of laying for the dog and supplying enough bad
consequences of his noise so he'll no longer feel like gambling.
Occasionally, there is a dog who seems to sense that you're hiding
nearby and will utter no sound. He also seems to sense when you
have really gone away, at least according to the neighbors. Maybe
his sensing actually amounts to close observation. He could be
watching and listening for the signs of your actual going.
Make a convincing operation of leaving, even if it requires changing
clothes and being unusually noisy as you slam the doors on the
family car and drive away. Arrange with a friend to trade cars a
block or two from your house so you can come back and park within
earshot without a single familiar sound to tell the dog you've
returned. A few of these car changes are generally enough to fool
the most alert dog.
Whether your dog believes you are gone anytime you step out of the
house or requires the production of changing clothes and driving
off, keep working until even your neighbors admit the dog has
reformed. If there has been a long history of barking and whining,
it sometimes requires a lot of work to make a dog be quiet when
you're not around, so give the above method an honest try before
you presume your dog requires a more severe correction."
Jenn
I'm not doing this again, Jerry. My reference to you yelling at me was
proven by that last post. And as for discussing the techniques, I DID talk
to you when I had a problem. I have since started over at the beginning as
you recommended. So stop using it as an excuse.
Jenn
Jenn
>
> "Jenn" <pywh...@powersurfEr.com> wrote in message
> news:_pou7.3105$Nq1.2...@news-rep.ab.videon.ca...
> > Steve, that's what Candace expects from us, as Candace is not a person
> but a
> > computer programme designed to automatically reply to Jerry's posts.
> > Candace actually recommends that we killfile her.
>
> > Jenn
>
> Hello Jenn,
>
> Care to discuss koehler and our pal's cindymooreon's and lying frosty
> dahl's forced fetch methods which make koehler look like St. Francis?
Done so already. Did you miss it? It was in a thread you started, and you
responded to me.
Jenn
michael
Jerry Howe
lying, dog absing Thug makes more lies to justify more abuse?? PLONK???
Naaah. You just don't want to say HOWE you really feel about hurting
dogs and then candy coating it with some insane logic... j;~}
"michael" <c...@dogtv.com> wrote in message
news:3BBAB883...@dogtv.com...
Jenn
>
>
> --
> this is michael
> reporting live...
> from the faster loading
> http://dogtv.com
>
> PSYCHE!
Gee thanks mike.. ;P
Jenn
Jenn
> That was real helpful, Soup. PLONK? Is that all you have to say when a
> lying, dog absing Thug makes more lies to justify more abuse?? PLONK???
> Naaah. You just don't want to say HOWE you really feel about hurting
> dogs and then candy coating it with some insane logic... j;~}
You know mike, he'll say so if he wants to! That's one of the reasons I
respect his advice. He doesn't sugar-coat. but he doesn't get into long,
irrelevent arguements either.
Jenn
Jerry Howe
"Jenn" <pywh...@powersurfEr.com> wrote in message
>
> "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:8kGu7.91476$Dz6.1...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> > That was real helpful, Soup. PLONK? Is that all you have to say
> > when a lying, dog absing Thug makes more lies to justify more
> > abuse?? PLONK???
> > Naaah. You just don't want to say HOWE you really feel about
> > hurting
> > dogs and then candy coating it with some insane logic... j;~}
> You know mike, he'll say so if he wants to!
Yes, and when he does, the same Thugs who condemn me for
blowing their cover call him a liar and crazy and tell you people to
killfile him too.
> That's one of the reasons I respect his advice.
Do you really now? I wonder what Soup would advise you to tell
sinovbitch about this crap she's feeding you that you're slopping down
like sweet pablum?
> He doesn't sugar- coat. but he doesn't get into long irrelevent
> arguements either.
Exactly, hence 'PLONK.' Sweet, concise, and to the point, jenn.
I think you've missed Soup's point, jenn...
I don't think Soup is interested in chit chatting about self
incriminating evidence with a proven liar and dog abuser, hence there's
no USE for sugar coated discussion as you seem content to accept,
thereby becoming part and parcel to perpetuating this kind of situation
that brought me here in the first place...i.e., our lying, dog abusing
Thugs denying what they do and teaching you to do likewise so THEY don't
look out of place...
That's why they tell you to killfile me, and to HURT your dog, instead
of learning appropriate handling and training techniuqes as taught in my
FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual...
I've got viable, effective, fast, non violent training method for EVERY
behavior problem, but that necessarily invalidates everything your pals
do and teach, and makes them look like dog abusers... That's why they
lie about what they do, hence becoming liars on top of dog abusing
Thugs... j;~}
> Jenn
The next two posters have DEAD DOGS because your pals told them I don't
have effective methods and that I'm a liar and con man. You'd better get
straight with yourself, jenn:
> ~misty
<"Terri"@cyberhighway
Rober Crim writes:
>Terri
Hello People,
> Charlie
Hi Jerry,
Elaine
Yours, Jerry.
Thanks, Elaine,
michael
Jerry Howe wrote:
>
> "Jenn" <pywh...@powersurfEr.com> wrote in message
> news:_BIu7.3180$Nq1.2...@news-rep.ab.videon.ca...
> >
> > "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:8kGu7.91476$Dz6.1...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> > > That was real helpful, Soup. PLONK? Is that all you have to say
> > > when a lying, dog absing Thug makes more lies to justify more
> > > abuse?? PLONK???
>
> > > Naaah. You just don't want to say HOWE you really feel about
> > > hurting
> > > dogs and then candy coating it with some insane logic... j;~}
>
> > You know mike, he'll say so if he wants to!
>
> Yes, and when he does, the same Thugs who condemn me for
> blowing their cover call him a liar and crazy and tell you people to
> killfile him too.
>
> > That's one of the reasons I respect his advice.
>
> Do you really now? I wonder what Soup would advise you to tell
> sinovbitch about this crap she's feeding you that you're slopping down
> like sweet pablum?
>
> > He doesn't sugar- coat. but he doesn't get into long irrelevent
> > arguements either.
>
> Exactly, hence 'PLONK.' Sweet, concise, and to the point, jenn.
>
> I think you've missed Soup's point, jenn...
Actually, Jer, I was just being funny...
> I don't think Soup is interested in chit chatting about self
> incriminating evidence with a proven liar and dog abuser, hence there's
> no USE for sugar coated discussion as you seem content to accept,
> thereby becoming part and parcel to perpetuating this kind of situation
> that brought me here in the first place...i.e., our lying, dog abusing
> Thugs denying what they do and teaching you to do likewise so THEY don't
> look out of place...
Hey Jer, I don't have time to expose lying dog abusing
thugs, I'm a very busy ceo. Besides, I did my stint before
you got here. I set the stage for you. Little did they know
howe good they had it back then. ;)
michael
Heh, I like short irreverent arguments instead.
And ya know why I like you, Jenn? Because you got a mind of
your own. And that's something you don't find too often.
In a Canadian.
Jenn
>
> "Jenn" <pywh...@powersurfEr.com> wrote in message
> news:_BIu7.3180$Nq1.2...@news-rep.ab.videon.ca...
> >
> > "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:8kGu7.91476$Dz6.1...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> > > That was real helpful, Soup. PLONK? Is that all you have to say
> > > when a lying, dog absing Thug makes more lies to justify more
> > > abuse?? PLONK???
>
> > > Naaah. You just don't want to say HOWE you really feel about
> > > hurting
> > > dogs and then candy coating it with some insane logic... j;~}
>
> > You know mike, he'll say so if he wants to!
>
> Yes, and when he does, the same Thugs who condemn me for
> blowing their cover call him a liar and crazy and tell you people to
> killfile him too.
Yeah people call him that. Has anyone told em to killfile him? No.
>
> > That's one of the reasons I respect his advice.
>
> Do you really now?
Yup. He knows his dogs.
I wonder what Soup would advise you to tell
> sinovbitch about this crap she's feeding you that you're slopping down
> like sweet pablum?
Never asked him. Never asked you, for that matter. Nothing is stopping
michael from commenting.
>
> > He doesn't sugar- coat. but he doesn't get into long irrelevent
> > arguements either.
>
> Exactly, hence 'PLONK.' Sweet, concise, and to the point, jenn.
>
> I think you've missed Soup's point, jenn...
>
> I don't think Soup is interested in chit chatting about self
> incriminating evidence with a proven liar and dog abuser, hence there's
> no USE for sugar coated discussion as you seem content to accept,
> thereby becoming part and parcel to perpetuating this kind of situation
> that brought me here in the first place...i.e., our lying, dog abusing
> Thugs denying what they do and teaching you to do likewise so THEY don't
> look out of place...
I didn't miss michael's point
>
> That's why they tell you to killfile me, and to HURT your dog, instead
> of learning appropriate handling and training techniuqes as taught in my
> FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual...
No one has told me to killfile you in a very, very long time. None of the
people I email with privatly have said that either. They know I have been an
on-and-off poster for a few years now, and am perfectly capable of making up
my own mind. None of them have even called me crazy for trying your WEDTM.
No one else has ever ragged on me for not doing X or Y, or doing Z even
though they didn't say so. Only you do that. You must assume that none of
your students have minds of their own. I'm not gonna fall on my knees and
worship you and your "dog training bible", Jerry. I'm not even going to
shout "Sir, yes SIR!" after everything you say. Were you a drill sergeant in
the military, Jer? Sure seems like it. If so, GET OVER IT. There is a reason
that ordinary people don't enter the military. Figure it out.
I'm trying your method. Despite what everyone else in here may think. Yet
still that is not enough for you. Did you treat Robert and misty like this
too? What about Elaine? What about Marge? Or Charlie? It's a wonder you have
any students at all.
And please stop posting that crap of a sig file to my posts. I know their
names. I know their stories. I read them the first time and the last 30+
times have just stopped scrolling. It's useless and yet another waste of
your precious time.
Jenn
Jenn
>
>
> Jenn wrote:
> >
> > "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:8kGu7.91476$Dz6.1...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> > > That was real helpful, Soup. PLONK? Is that all you have to say when a
> > > lying, dog absing Thug makes more lies to justify more abuse??
PLONK???
> > > Naaah. You just don't want to say HOWE you really feel about hurting
> > > dogs and then candy coating it with some insane logic... j;~}
> >
> > You know mike, he'll say so if he wants to! That's one of the reasons I
> > respect his advice. He doesn't sugar-coat. but he doesn't get into long,
> > irrelevent arguements either.
> >
> > Jenn
>
> Heh, I like short irreverent arguments instead.
Yours are much easier to read.
>
> And ya know why I like you, Jenn? Because you got a mind of
> your own. And that's something you don't find too often.
>
> In a Canadian.
Aw, shucks! <blush> I won't tell all the other Canadians you said that.
Jenn
Jerry Howe
So you approve of alphalpha rolling and biting a dog on the ear to
correct leash pulling, jenn? That's a yes or no question in my book,
HOWE'S about yours?
You said you're fixin to be a dog trainer?
Hmm?
"Jenn" <pywh...@powersurfEr.com> wrote in message
news:8SSu7.3208$Nq1.3...@news-rep.ab.videon.ca...
Jenn
> Hello jenn,
>
> So you approve of alphalpha rolling and biting a dog on the ear to
> correct leash pulling, jenn? That's a yes or no question in my book,
> HOWE'S about yours?
>
> You said you're fixin to be a dog trainer?
Where on earth did you get that impression? In the post below? Where did it
say anything about alpha rolling in the post you quoted?
And the answer is NO. I do not approve of alpha rolling. I thought that was
obvious.
Jenn
Cathy Sullivan
anyways. Other than that, he simply makes stuff up in order to make him feel
so superior to others. Whatever he needs to make up to stroke his ego, he
makes up.
Insane people do insane things by definition.
Jerry Howe
"Jenn" <pywh...@powersurfEr.com> wrote in message
news:5lJv7.3348$Nq1.3...@news-rep.ab.videon.ca...
>
> "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:rSxv7.3541$Xj1.4...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> > Hello jenn,
> > So you approve of alphalpha rolling and biting a dog on the ear
> > to correct leash pulling, jenn? That's a yes or no question in my
> > book, HOWE'S about yours?
> > You said you're fixin to be a dog trainer?
> Where on earth did you get that impression?
Yes or no, jen. This isn't subjective or open to semantics, we're
talking dogs. Are we? Or are we talking not offending your pals here?
Perhaps you hope to smarten them up the long way, by teaching them? GOOD
LUCK.
> In the post below?
Yeah, it was a yes or no answer. "DO YOU APPROVE OF
ALPHAPHA ROLLING, GROWLING IN THE DOG'S THROAT, AND
NIPPING THEM ON THE EAR?
> Where did it say anything about alpha rolling in the post you
> quoted?
She threw a lunging out of control dog down, growled in his throat and
bit him on the ear. Maybe you been reading a different news group?
> And the answer is NO. I do not approve of alpha rolling.
Then you must have missed that part in sionnach's discussion with the
other bum who used it for their problem dog in the thread 'growling
westies." Why do you suppose your pals didn't recommend that method for
the Westie? I'll tell you why. They'd get HURT.
> I thought that was obvious.
It was obvious you someHOWE missed it in your training discussion with
sionnach.
Care to talk about hanging dogs to rehibilitate them from being gently
rolled on their side and growled at when they're out of control and
nipping them on the ear?
That's what we do if the dog objects to being gently rolled around and
growled at and nipped for out of control behavior, jenn.
> Jenn
Hmm?
> > Hmm?
Yes or no? NO. You approve of if if the lying dog abusing Thug knows
HOWE to lie about it till you give up using your intellect, integrity,
and sacrifice your morals and ethics and principles, and condone it.
That's probably not too difficult.
Thank you, bye! We don't need dog trainers like that here, jen. We've
already got enough people condoning hurting dogs because they don't know
any better...
Cathy Sullivan
>
> "Jenn" <pywh...@powersurfEr.com> wrote in message
> news:5lJv7.3348$Nq1.3...@news-rep.ab.videon.ca...
> >
> > "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:rSxv7.3541$Xj1.4...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> > > Hello jenn,
>
> > > So you approve of alphalpha rolling and biting a dog on the ear
> > > to correct leash pulling, jenn? That's a yes or no question in my
> > > book, HOWE'S about yours?
>
> > > You said you're fixin to be a dog trainer?
>
> > Where on earth did you get that impression?
>
> Yes or no, jen.
Yes or no, jarjar. Are you currently or have you previously got mental
health care?
Yes or no, jarjar. Have you been diagnosed with a mental illness?
Yes or no, jarjar. Have you ever been convicted of a crime? (Keep in mind
that that is public information which is easily attainable, so answer
carefully).
nancy
<csul...@network.net> posts to alt.pets.dogs.labrador, saying
...</attrib>
> Yes or no, jarjar.
hey, RPDB, do APDL a favor. When that nitwitted ass-sucking
jizz-licking fartbreathed piece of maggot meat howe obnoxiously
crossposts to alt.pets.dogs.labradors with his insipid yatter-brained
lying snot-loaded pusilanimous whackweed-induced pile of nonsense,
would y'all mind snipping APDL out of your followups?
or, at least, tag your followups with (ninnyboy) or (HOWE) or
something?
thanks a bunch!
[followups set to RPDB]
--
nancy
I think men who have a pierced ear are better prepared for marriage.
They've experienced pain and bought jewelry. --Rita Rudner
Jerry Howe
"Cathy Sullivan" <csul...@network.net> wrote in message
news:trut3s8...@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > Hello jenn,
> > > > So you approve of alphalpha rolling and biting a dog on the > >
> > ear to correct leash pulling, jenn? That's a yes or no question
> > > > in my book, HOWE'S about yours?
> > > > You said you're fixin to be a dog trainer?
> > > Where on earth did you get that impression?
> > Yes or no, jen.
> Yes or no, jarjar. Are you currently or have you previously got
> mental health care?
Is there something wrong with seeking mental health?
> Yes or no, jarjar. Have you been diagnosed with a mental illness?
No. But this is dogs, and alleged trainers hurting dogs and trying to
call that training.
That's clearly a laps of mental health.
> Yes or no, jarjar. Have you ever been convicted of a crime?
I've been called on to testify as expert witness in Superior Courts for
Criminal Justice in animal cases. I could get your pals convicted of
abusing animals and probably get them comitted for lengthy stays in a
secure criminal mental health facility.
> (Keep in mind that that is public information which is easily
> attainable, so answer carefully).
Maybe one day I'll get hold of some undercover surveillance tapes of
your pal cindymooreon or lying frosty dahl twisting and pinching
shocking and beating a dog, and we'll get them indicted and we'll get
some laws passed keeping these experts in confinement till they're safe
enough to be let out with supervision???
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There
Is A Single Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything
But Destructive" amy "Get A 30"- 40" Stick. CHUCK IT Under ITS
Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand," dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap," professora gingold.
Hello People,
What's troubling our little NAZI'S today?
> I like to read what you post, but plowing through that drivel to get
> to it just isn't worth it.
Well then, I strongly suggest you pack your German Spiked Pinch
Choke and thirty five levels of static like stimulation shock collar,
training stick and your swatstika, and get the heel outta here
because this is where people come to get information and ideas..
despite the fact some of our "experts" are getting themselves
exposed as lying dog abusing Thugs.
> He is the only person I have killfiled, and the long quotes
> defeat the purpose.
Sorry good buddy. I suggest you go find dogman and play grab ass
with him and his ilk who'll be reorganizing with him pretty shortly.
> Thank you
Please pardon our appearance while we're remodelling.
> Gg
!CAUTION! Dog abusing lying Thugs. Enter at your own peril! You
are responsible for your own loss of credibility and damages to
careers and reputations resultant from being exposed and
discredited. Proceed at your own risk. This is a violence free zone.
Violators will be subject to prolonged emotional, social and
professional punishment and will be pursued to the gates of Heel
and kept within under guard of a Wits' End Trained Dog.
> > I use some of Jerry's methods but I will also use other
> > methods...Alpha
There's lots of methods beyond my own that I condone. My intent is
not to limit methods and tools, but to OBVIATE them through use of
a cohesive gestalt as presented in the FREE Wits' End Dog Training
Method manual.
> > Treat your dog like a dog
Seems we got two kinds of trainers.
One kind are the experts who approach every dog as an individual
and hurts and kills them individually, as necessary... and the other
kind like you and me and Marilyn and Patch and Canis55 who train
every individual the same way, using non violence and letting
everyone live through training someHOWE, without hurting nobody.
Let's weight that out... On one hand we got experts who hurt and kill
some dogs. On the other we got trainers who never hurt nobody and
train dogs successfully without pain and death. Hmmm. Let's work
that out? PAIN + DEATH, Vs FUN + LIFE.
PAIN/DEATH.
FUN/LIFE.
PAIN, DEATH.
FUN, LIFE.
OPTIONS: KILL, LIVE.
O.K. What's the choices again?
live or die?
CANDACE!!!~~~~ j;~}
Here's a couple posters who learned the hard way:
misty" <Mom...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6...@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two dogs,
> two collars We now have one dog and no collars.
> Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come back
> in the yard and would run for days. The last time, Peach didn't
> come back home.
> I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train my dog.
> She is now border trained. A few minutes each day reinforces
> her desire to stay in the yard. She no longer runs out into the
> road, I can stop her from chasing cats and she no longer cringes
> when we walk around the yard.
> I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the e-fence
> and its collars. If you can't get a regular fence then you need to
> train your dog. I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my
> dog in our yard again. The price was too high:-(
> ~misty
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@easynews.com> wrote in message
news:pjaootcg8dgrptuu9...@4ax.com...
> I read up on rotties, pitbulls, etc., and quite a bit of the
> literature suggested I needed to assert my dominance and "make
> the dog earn everything it gets." I tried this once or twice, just by
> taking a stern tone of voice, and the results were terrible. The pup
> got scared and just wanted to stay away from me.
> That's why I support Jerry Howe and his FREE Wits' End Dog
> Training
> manual -- that and the fact that Jerry is an all-around great guy.
> The core takeaway I got from Jerry's manual is this: make yourself
> the center of your puppy's world -- his personal Lord Jesus. Never
> give him a reason to fear you or think you're angry. Love the heck
> out of him, and you'll end up with a great dog.
> This has truly worked with my puppy. She'll do anything I want
> her to, if she understands, because she trusts me 100 percent,
> and nothing is more important in her world than her relationship
> with me.
> Charlie
<"Terri"@cyberhighway
Rober Crim writes:
>Terri
Hello People,
Hi Jerry,
Jerry Howe
> He gets anything from where he wants to - it's all false, but he'll
spew it
> anyways. Other than that, he simply makes stuff up in order to make
him feel
> so superior to others. Whatever he needs to make up to stroke his ego,
he
> makes up.
> Insane people do insane things by definition.
insane people hurt dogs and call that training
and dog abusers lie about the insanity they do, and that makes their
behavior criminal...
So, go fish.
Cathy Sullivan
>
> I've been called on to testify as expert witness in Superior Courts for
> Criminal Justice in animal cases. I could get your pals convicted of
> abusing animals and probably get them comitted for lengthy stays in a
> secure criminal mental health facility.
Then DO IT already! Sheesh - you have NO backbone.
>
> > (Keep in mind that that is public information which is easily
> > attainable, so answer carefully).
>
> Maybe one day I'll get hold of some undercover surveillance tapes of
> your pal cindymooreon or lying frosty dahl twisting and pinching
> shocking and beating a dog,
I'm NOT TALKING ABOUT THEM. I'm talking about YOU. Try again to ANSWER THE
QUESTION.
and we'll get them indicted and we'll get
> some laws passed keeping these experts in confinement till they're safe
> enough to be let out with supervision???
You didn't answer the question, as usual. I'll try again.
"Yes or no, jarjar. Have you ever been convicted of a crime?"
Again, keep in mind I WILL dig up legal records. Either speak up now or I'll
get my legal department to find out. So tell us the truth jarjar. Go ahead.
Amy Dahl
> > your pal cindymooreon or lying frosty dahl twisting and pinching
> > shocking and beating a dog,
Just a reminder to all that Jerry Howe has an open invitation
to come watch me train dogs, to which he has not responded.
If he can convince me that his video format cannot be doctored
to make it appear that I do the things he falsely attributes
to me, he's welcome to videotape the sessions.
Amy Dahl
Karen J. Cravens
> I've been called on to testify as expert witness in Superior Courts for
> Criminal Justice in animal cases. I could get your pals convicted of
> abusing animals and probably get them comitted for lengthy stays in a
> secure criminal mental health facility.
I'd be real interested in hearing case numbers there. Or even the names
and venue; I can look it up myself.
Unless, of course, this is more lying, which it probably is.
--
Karen J. Cravens
Jenn
have questions about your manual. You can't seem to understand anything
outside of your own mind.
<PLONK>
Jenn
Jerry Howe
question... Need and expert witness on dog behavior? j;~}
"Cathy Sullivan" <csul...@network.net> wrote in message
news:trvavi1...@corp.supernews.com...
Cathy Sullivan
> Your legal department should know better than to ask an illegal
> question...
Uh, it's all public record my friend...let's see what comes up on Monday.
This should be fun! :)
Cathy Sullivan
"Yes or no, jarjar. Have you ever been convicted of a crime?"
Would you like to tell us what those crimes were before I do? It's going to
take my dept about an hour to find them - if you post them first, I'll not
post them. It's up to you.
Jerry Howe
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There
Jerry Howe
"Karen J. Cravens" <silve...@phoenyx.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9132CF42...@209.134.108.33...
misty" <Mom...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6...@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two dogs,
> two collars We now have one dog and no collars.
> Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come back
> in the yard and would run for days. The last time, Peach didn't
> come back home.
> I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train my dog.
> She is now border trained. A few minutes each day reinforces
> her desire to stay in the yard. She no longer runs out into the
> road, I can stop her from chasing cats and she no longer cringes
> when we walk around the yard.
> I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the e-fence and
> its collars. If you can't get a regular fence then you need to
> train your dog. I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my
> dog in our yard again. The price was too high:-(
> ~misty
<"Terri"@cyberhighway
Rober Crim writes:
>Terri
Hello People,
> Charlie
Hi Jerry,
Elaine
Yours, Jerry.
Thanks, Elaine,
-Jerry Howe-
roo
"Jenn" <pywh...@powersurfEr.com> wrote in message
Hi Jenn,
I missed this thread first time - it's funny in parts. You have my
admiration for your patience, ability not to get annoyed, to stick to the
point, and keep an independent mind. Thanks - have liked your posts from
when I first noticed them.
Alikat
Jerry Howe
"roo" <r...@kanga.net> wrote in message
news:9pv8db$kt2$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > Well, I still expect to see a <plonk> after one of my posts. I
> > seriously am trying the WEDTM with Frodo. So far results are
> > good. I've read all there is to read against the WEDTM, (as to
> > whether he wrote it or not, etc.) but it is still all there, in
compact
> > form, and it is worth a good effort to see if it works like Jerry
> > proclaims.
> > I'm going to give it another week or so before I start reporting on
> > it. I find it interesting that I have stated for
> > all to see that I am trying it, yet he still insists on yelling at
me
> > occassionally for continuing to chat with you et al.
> > Jenn
> Hi Jenn,
> I missed this thread first time - it's funny in parts.
Yeah, it's real funny where sinofabitch throws down an 8 month old lab
puppy for lunging out of control on lead, and growls in his throat and
bites him on the ear. Yup, I'm still laughin my @$$ off over it.
> You have my admiration for your patience,
You told Marilyn you'd killfile her if she continued to discuss dog
training with me on our forum.
> ability not to get annoyed,
You told Marilyn you wouldn't talk to her if she didn't stop discussing
my training methods on our dog behavior forum.
> to stick to the point,
Your pals HURT dogs to train them. Marilyn and I do not. There's never
any justifiable reason for using a choke or shock device of any kind, or
to chin cuff or scruff shake or intimidate at dog to train them. Your
pals blackman and melanie beat their dogs in the face with shepherd's
crooks to keep their ill trained dogs from attacking the sheep they turn
them on to molest. And you call that training.
> and keep an independent mind.
You said you have ISSUES with the FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method
manual, but it seems you can't articulate them... all you can do is piss
and moan that I'm mean to lying, dog abusing Thugs, like you and your
pals, roo.
> Thanks - have liked your posts from when I first noticed them.
Is that because she's willing to close her eyes to her pals abusing dogs
and then making ridiculous excuses to mitigate what they do and teach
us? Hmm? Seems you and your pals are a little lite on lying, dog abusing
Thugs.
I asked david 'alphalpha' sweeney what he thought of all this crap. He
said he just closes his eyes and ignores it. Well, that's why you bums
are still posting here.
I've got a cure for that. j;~}
> Alikat
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There
Is A Single Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything
But Destructive" amy "Get A 30"- 40" Stick. CHUCK IT Under ITS
Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand," dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap," professora gingold.
Seems we got two kinds of trainers.
One kind are the experts who approach every dog as an individual
and hurts and kills them individually, as necessary... and the other
kind like you and me and Marilyn and Patch and Canis55 who train
every individual the same way, using non violence and letting
everyone live through training someHOWE, without hurting nobody.
Let's weight that out... On one hand we got experts who hurt and kill
some dogs. On the other we got trainers who never hurt nobody and
train dogs successfully without pain and death. Hmmm. Let's work
that out? PAIN + DEATH, Vs FUN + LIFE.
PAIN/DEATH.
FUN/LIFE.
PAIN, DEATH.
FUN, LIFE.
OPTIONS: KILL, LIVE.
O.K. What's the choices again?
live or die?
CANDACE!!!~~~~ j;~}
Here's a couple of my students:
misty" <Mom...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6...@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two dogs,
> two collars We now have one dog and no collars.
> Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come back
> in the yard and would run for days. The last time, Peach didn't
> come back home.
> I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train my dog.
> She is now border trained. A few minutes each day reinforces
> her desire to stay in the yard. She no longer runs out into the
> road, I can stop her from chasing cats and she no longer cringes
> when we walk around the yard.
> I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the e-fence
> and its collars. If you can't get a regular fence then you need to
> train your dog. I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my
> dog in our yard again. The price was too high:-(
> ~misty
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@easynews.com> wrote in message
Jenn
>
> I missed this thread first time - it's funny in parts. You have my
> admiration for your patience, ability not to get annoyed, to stick to the
> point, and keep an independent mind. Thanks - have liked your posts from
> when I first noticed them.
>
> Alikat
>
>
<sheepish grin> I finally got ticked off and killfiled JH again. I will only
act as a punching bag for so long, ya know?
I don't know what to say about the rest of your post though. I do not take
praise well.
Thanks though!
--
Jenn
"Don't accept your dog's admiration as
conclusive evidence
that you are wonderful." - Ann Landers
My babies : http://www.geocities.com/pywhacket1971/dogs_1
diddy
once they discover he's insane. I can't see him affecting any outcome in
any case. Sure is worth the giggles imagining the scenario though.
Thanks for reposting Karen, He's in my killfile and i would have missed
this.
If he REALLY were a dog trainer, He wouldn't have time to vomit all over
newsgroups with the volumes that he does. He would be actually training
dogs, if he were THAT successful, instead of just talking about it.
Peter L. Berghold
Spoke Thusly about
"Re: "hanging" dogs.PAIN + DEATH, Vs <snipped header>
[*]Even if he were.. Obviously his expert testimony will be discredited
[*]once they discover he's insane.
Hasn't anybody on this NG besides me read James Thurber's "Walter Mitty?"
Ninnyboy is a modern day version of Walter Mitty. Walter had delusions
of being a surgeon, fighter pilot, airline pilot, detective, and I can't
remember what all else.
I've seen posts on this NG and others by Ninnyboy that make him out to be
a Seal, Secret Agent and more stuff than anybody in a whole lifetime
could possibly do.
Nevermind that someone like myself who is an honest to goodness veteran
can see this Bovine Scatology from a mile off and I'm sure I'm not the
only veteran on this NG.
Jerry is a traitor, a liar and a bully.
Jerry is so full of crap that he grows potatoes in his ears. He wouldn't
know a properly trained dog if it bit him on his I'm sure ample buttocks.
He spends all his time hanging himself, twisting his own toes, slapping
himself and all the crap that he accuses all of us "THUGS" of doing.
--
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Peter L. Berghold Pe...@Berghold.Net
"Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it."
Peter L. Berghold
Spoke Thusly about
"Re: "hanging" dogs.PAIN + DEATH, Vs FUN <snipped>
[*]
[*]They were not delusions; it was just a guy enjoying himself.
You're right. But I still see some definite parallels between NB and
Walter Mitty. What is he escaping? His sad life.
Cindy
Peter L. Berghold <pe...@uboat.berghold.net> wrote:
>Ninnyboy is a modern day version of Walter Mitty. Walter had delusions
>of being a surgeon, fighter pilot, airline pilot, detective, and I can't
>remember what all else.
Walter Mitty was at least moderately entertaining.
>Nevermind that someone like myself who is an honest to goodness veteran
>can see this Bovine Scatology from a mile off and I'm sure I'm not the
>only veteran on this NG.
You don't have to be a veteran (or currently serving) to spot it either...
--Cindy
Jerry Howe
"Peter L. Berghold" <pe...@uboat.berghold.net> wrote in message
news:slrn9sendl...@uboat.berghold.net...
> In rec.pets.dogs.behavior, diddy(di...@nospam.diddy.net)
> Spoke Thusly about
> "Re: "hanging" dogs.PAIN + DEATH, Vs <snipped header>
> [*]Even if he were.. Obviously his expert testimony will be
> discredited [*]once they discover he's insane.
Yes peter. I'm so insane I've discredited you and your punk pals and the
university professors of behavior who can't train a dog not to dig
holes, eat poo, jump fences, countersurf, sofa sleep, kat kruchie
munching, kat food foolery, garbage eating (you lab folks all know that
one, don't we...), without hurting him or can't even HOWESbreak a dog
without locking IT in a box for four months to two years.
> Hasn't anybody on this NG besides me read James Thurber's
> "Walter Mitty?"
I suppose all my pals here missed my $100.00 CASH REWARD for ANY NON
FORCE TRAINING METHOD for any of those problems... NO TAKERS. What'sa?
My money ain't good enough for you?
> Ninnyboy is a modern day version of Walter Mitty. Walter had
> delusions of being a surgeon, fighter pilot, airline pilot, detective,
> and I can't remember what all else.
I wuden't nowe. I dn't read much, cause I"m a dog trainer and I didn't
knead schol because dogs' don't much give a damn if I can spel or write
or even count to ten. But I'm studious peter, and I LIKE MATH. Math is
my strong point, peter. Kinda like some folks like to go barefoot,
others just gotta ware bootz. I wanted to be able to cipher to ten,
peter, when I hit thirty. Going the way the "experts" were tellin me was
promising to cost me a few fingers over the years, and sinse Im' a
marhth magor, I figgered if I learnt HOWE to train dogs WITHOUT HURTING
THEM, maybe I'd still be able to cipher like I like to when I"m not
trainin dawgs. Like in my free time. I can couont to TEN with my damned
eys closed!
Bet you can't. Bet you can't pull down my C-note either, schmuck. Do you
know I can cuss in about ten languages, even some of them GREEK
languages. Know what petey baby? They don't have "doggie talkie" like
alpha rolling and biting dogs on the ear and growling in their throats
and chin cuffin and scruff shaking and beatnig dogs with sticks and
SHOCKING THEM IN ADVANCE for MOTIVATION, in the ORIGINAL GREEK.
SO THAT'S WHY I'M SPEAKIN THE QUEENS ENGLISH.
> I've seen posts on this NG and others by Ninnyboy that make him
> out to be a Seal,
That'd be an insult to an Regular Army guy like me.
> Secret Agent
Then it wouldn't be no secret anyMOORE, would it peter? Even I know
that...
> and more stuff than anybody in a whole lifetime could possibly do.
Indeed, I've led an interesting, exciting life, peter. And I've done
more in a single decade than you've ever dreamed of in your entire life.
But I wouldn't recommend that for everyone, it's not EZ being me.
> Nevermind that someone like myself who is an honest to goodness
> veteran
Straight Leg Reserve, eh peter? I sold Girl Scout Cookies. Had the hat
and all, peter. Ever jump out of a jet, peter? It's a bit different than
your normal day at the dog park.
> can see this Bovine Scatology from a mile off and I'm sure
> I'm not the only veteran on this NG.
Yeah, but I guarantee you one thing, peeter. You and five more put
together didn't get as much special training as I did, peter. Flunkies
don't spend the better part of two years in military occupational
specialties schools, peter. I'm one of them 3%'rs you read and dream
about, peter.
> Jerry is a traitor, a liar and a bully.
I'll turn in my wings, just for you peter.
> Jerry is so full of crap that he grows potatoes in his ears.
You been listening to my momma? She'd be pulling your leg, peter. Momma
knows I don't like to get dirty, that's why I don't lay my hands on dogs
like you and your pals do.
> He wouldn't know a properly trained dog if it bit him on his I'm sure
> ample buttocks.
I'm lean, peter. But I'm also mean and I've got something you and the
whole damned world ain't got. And I've got INFORMATION for you, peter. I
suggest you take it from me, or everyone else will be steamrolling you
with it.
"A word to the wise, is sufficient," Jerry's Nana.
> He spends all his time hanging himself,
No need to bring that into it...what anyone does in private is their
business.
> twisting his own toes,
I've studied pressure points and massage, peeter. I can do lots of
things with a body, peter. Things you'd probably ENJOY. Things that's
make you FEEL GOOD. You LIKE to FEEL GOOD, don't you peeter? HOWE'D
peeter feel when he held his favorite good buddy down for a technician
at your favorite kill shelter probably janet boss's, to kill for you
because you can't control him around your other dogs and don't trust his
behavior with your munchkins? You probably felt a lot like steve walker
when he took his munchkins dog Sampson and KILLED IT because you and
your pals told him NOT to believe Jerry, Marilyn, Canis55, and a couple
of other competent trainers when we told him confronting Sampson would
make him vicious with his kids. But we were WRONG. Sampson ended up
GREAT with steve's kids, but he was FEAR AGGRESSIVE towards other
people's little kids. Now where do you suppose he ever got that idea?
Or did you feel moore like Robert Crim when he had to kill Frits? Wanna
know WHY Robert had to kill Fritz? Because $#!T rolls downhill, and
koehler pushed his wonder dog over the brink. I'm surprised your pal
eddie "smegma, pedophila, N.A.M.B.L.A." w of pet loss dot CON didn't say
a few nice words about Fritz and the wonders of the koehler method, when
he sent in all the stellar book reviews of the definitive treatise on
dog training by master trainer w. koehler, madman extraordinaire, who's
convinced most of our Gang Of Thugs that their dogs love them if they
inflict pain and torment them, even shooting their errant dogs with a
good slingshot or BB's.
> slapping himself and all the crap that he accuses all of us
> "THUGS" of doing.
Why don't you like to talk about dog training, peter? Seems to me you
got lots to complain about Jerry, EXCEPT MY INFORMATION.
I suggest you smarten up. But don' go away, there's moore there:
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+
> Peter L. Berghold Pe...@Berghold.Net
> "Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it."
Friday, October 12, 2001 7:17 PM
Hello peter,
"Peter L. Berghold" <pe...@uboat.berghold.net> wrote in message
news:slrn9semun...@uboat.berghold.net...
> In rec.pets.dogs.behavior, rebecca(reb...@ozlinx.com.au)
> Spoke Thusly about
> "advice needed...":
> [*]My family has a male cocker spaniel who is 10 months.
> Ahh... the adolescent age...
Ahh. peter.., the imbecile. Still got that favorite dog of yours you was
fixin to KILL because he was becoming aggressive with your other
less favorite dogs?
> Full of oats and ready to take on the world.
Full of CRAP and ready to BULL$#!T the world...
> Is he neutered or intact?
What's that got to do with the state of the art of dog training??
NOTHING. You were planning on killing your favorite dog for a dog
aggression problem. You were worried about your family getting
tangled in an out of control outburst of aggression aimed at your
other less favorite dogs. So, you planned to kill your best buddy. Did
you bump him off? Did you neuter him at three months like you
bums like to do?
> [*]nature, very affectionate and gentle, and he handles basic
> comands lik
> [*]"sit" really well. He has a few separation anxiety problems
> because he's
> [*]never been left alone but thats another issue.
> [*]
> And an issue that may well be related.
You read my post?
> Be careful not to confuse obedience with behavior issues.
Be careful not to confuse a dog behavior expert with a dog abusing
Thug who thinks he's an expert based on the number of favorite best
friends he's killed because he didn't know HOWE to TRAIN the dog.
> They are two seperate universes
I suggest you find your separate universe, cause this one's got too
small for the likes of you to be skulking about.
> although somewhat related in some ways.
Yeah, related.
> [*]What I'd like some advice on is this..... Every morning the dog
> comes [*]into my room and jumps on the bed.
> Without actually seeing the dog or the behavior
You want into the missy's bedroom at sunup? You could get your
dirty @$$ blown off by her daddy i fthe dog don't take you out first.
What the heel's to SEE??? Imbecile. Did you finally kill your own
favorite dog, PETER?
> I'm taking a SWAG here.
Well then wipe and flush and get the heel outta here.
> I'd tend to eliminate the opportunity for him to jump up on the bed
You gonna put the bed in the garage?
> without being invited and I'd stop inviting him for a while.
Yeah? You would, woulndn't you. Did you finally kill that little dog of
your own because you couldn't handle your dogs properly?
> Being up high has the effect on some dogs of making them think
> they are higher and mightier than they are.
That's ABSURD. That's pure WHORE$#!T
> [*] But now he's started showing agression
> [*](growling) the minute my father walks in. He's actually bitten
> him twice, [*]once drawing blood.
> This is serious.
DID YOU KILL YOUR DOG, peter?
> He should never be allowed to get away with that.
Ahhh peter..., what would YOU do about it? WE KNOW HOWE YOU
PLANNED TO DEAL WITH YOUR FAVORITE BEST FRIEND.
> The behavior may get worse if it is not dealt with.
Like your MR dog that YOU wanted to KILL the last time you
mentioned him?
> [*] The first time my dad was encouraging him to play
> What kind of play?
You think he was playing roll on the ground and growl in the throat
and bite on the ears, like sinofabitch likes to play with her out of
control dog pulling her on leash??? Hmm? Is that what kind of FUN
you think her dad was PLAYING?
> Was he doing this while the dog was agressing?
I think she said he was GETTING BITTEN.
> [*]Is he "guarding" the bed?
> Again, without seeing the dog or the behavior
The dog BIT Dad. What's to SEE? You want Dad to go over and
recreate the situation so YOU can SEE the behavior? That's brilliant,
just like your pal janet boss going to SEE the dog barking behind the
electric shock fence... imbeciles, the whole damned bunch of you.
> I am taking a SWAG
Better get that tended to peter, that's not normal to need to take two
in a row like that.
> but it certainly sounds like he is claiming you and the bed as his
> exculsive territory and sees your father as a threat to his claim.
Is that so? Wouldn't it make MOORE SENSE that the PRIZE is not
he bed, but the PRINCESS? imbecile
> [*] My dad is nothing but friendly to the puppy.
> This means very little to Phydeaux.
And it means absolutely NOTHING to you because YOU can't SEE
the behavior. imbecile
> It sounds like this dog has bonded
> to you and thinks that you are his exclusively.
Make up your mind peter, it's EITHER the bed or the PRINCESS.
The bed is up HIGH, peter. That tells me to look LOW, cause you
don't stand a chance in heel of being correct about dog behavior,
you was just fixing to KILL your own BEST PAL because of some
minor behavior problem you was FREAKED OUT by IF something
should HAPPEN to go wrong...becuse you're an i-m-b-e-c-i-l-e.
> [*]after him *a lot*...feeding him, taking him outside at night,
> playing etc.
> Who does the majority of taking care of his needs?
Does that have ANY bearing on ANYTHING? I'm just CURIOUS
peter, cause I've NEVER asked that question in thirty eight years of
professional training specializing in temperament and behavior
problems and protection, peter.
Ever train a dog for protection, peter?
> [*]Also, when my dad gets home in the afternoon the dog is
> extremely happy to [*]see him. [*]
> Probably due to a change of context.
Right, peter. Did you change the context for that dead dog of yours?
> [*]He also growls when we come near him while he's eating,
> chewing a bone and [*]sometimes even when he's sleeping and
> doesn't want to be bothered. [*]
> These behaviors are related to the bed possesiveness behavior.
You think the BED is the issue, peter? No wonder you wanted to KILL YOUR
FAVORITE BEST FRIEND DOG.
> [*]Any advice on stopping this behaviour, or at least whats causing
> it, would [*]be much appreciated. [*]
Don't stand a chance in heel of making it outta this forum alive.
> This set of behaviors are much too complicated to try and
> troubleshoot via newsgroup messages
Yeah, we wouldn't want to DEPEND on the WRITTEN WORD. After
all, YOU KILL YOUR DOGS, peter.
> and not being able to see the dog in action.
What's to SEE, peter? NOTHING. A behavior is a behavior. There's
NOTHING TO SEE, unless you're getting bit, and then it's going to
be too FAST to see.
> They do sound like they are rooted in possessiveness though.
imbecile. Possessiveness is NOT an issue, TRUST is the issue.
> I have three Cockers of my own
Is that down from four, peter?
> and have seen this behavior before in other Cockers.
DEAD COCKERS, peter. DEAD COCKERS. You can't train a behavior problem
even if it's YOUR OWN BEST FAVORITE FRIEND.
> It is very common in the breed with varying levels of severity.
That's because of MISHANDLING, peter. The SAME MISHANDLING
that posesses YOU to tell folks here to killfile ME, because I don't
roll
over on MY BEST FRIENDS, and KILL THEM because I'm AFRAID.
> Basil and Moose, my "Cocker Boys" have been known to share a
> bone with one chewing on one end and the other chewing on the
> other end at the same time.
Whoopie. I had two Great Danes share the same bitch. Big deal.
> Yet Basil is known to take toys and squirrel them away in his crate.
So one of my Great Danes squirreled the bitch away. Big deal.
> That's one end of the possessiveness spectrum.
Is that so, peter? TRUST is the ONLY issue.
> At the extreme end of the spectrum was a Cocker that I knew that
> wouldn't eat around other dogs because he was so busy
> defending his food dish.
And what's this all got to do with needing to SEE the behavior?
You've got NOTHING to add to the improvemet of this OP's situation,
do you peter. You're just an EMPTY BELL.
> He had to be fed in a crate in a closed room where he couldn't see
> other dogs.
Well well well, PETER, what about SEEING the behavior??? You did
SEE THE BEHAVIOR, PETER, and you couldn't FIX it because
W-H-Y peter? Because YOU DON'T KNOW HOWE.
> My main advise to you comes in two parts:
Hire an expert like janet or boob maida, and KILL THE DOG to be fair?
> 1) Have a full physical of the dog done and have the
> thyroid and liver functions checked.
Yeah, that's excellent advice, for a chance at a 5% payoff... at
tremendous expense.
> There may be a physical component to Phydeaux's behavior.
The odds are much less than 5% peter, I was giving it the benefit of
the doubt, but no, there's such small chance that there's anything
medically wrong, it's almost ABSURD to waste money at the vets till
the APPROPRIATE handling and training are effected, and THEN if
we still have a behavior problem THAT'S when we invest precious
time and hard earned dough chasing down a phantom.
> If this checks out go to #2.
As stated. You do the vets AFTER remedial training which is going to
be NECESSARY regardless of the vet check up.
> 2) Enlist the aid of a behaviorist.
You're a big spender, peter. Your pal carol levie went to boob maida
and he sent her to his competition because he didn't want her
coming back here telling us he could only teach her to choke and
hang her dog. Your pal janet boss overlooked two shock
containment systems that made the little dog hand/collar shy and
aggressive towards visitors, and she told them to jerk and choke and
crate and KILL their little dog because all your pal "expert" trainers
ain't no damned better than you are peter, and you was fixin to kill
your favorite dog the last time we chit chatted.
> If possible have them come to your home and observe the behavior
> first hand.
So they can SEE it? So they can tell her to HANG her dog? So they
can tell her to KILL her dog? So they can HANG her dog FOR her?
So they can HOLD HER DOG DOWN TO KILL IT FOR HER?
> Don't try doing #2 without doing #1.
Go straight to heel, peter. Do not pass go. Do not touch anybody's
dog on the way to jail. Ooop! Pay Community Chest $200.00 for
loitering. Get the heel outta here you mooreon.
> When you go to a behaviorist the first thing they will
> ask you is if the dog has had a physical.
Yeah? I only ask that if it's evident there's a problem that needs the
vet. Your "behaviorist" gets referrals from the vets he sends folks like
this to. And the "behaviorists" at the university of PA have been
thouroughly TRASHED by their article on HOLE DIGGIN and the
"expert" work they've done with melanie and Solo for the past year of
unconscionable daily training and psychopharmacolgical treatment.
Get the heel outta here with your bullshit. You're talking probably
five hundred bucks BEFORE even STARTING.
> As I said earlier in my post one of the first things I would do is
> not let Phydeaux up on the bed without being invited (EMPHASIS:
> INVITED) up and I wouldn't invite him for a while.
Like blackman, it seems you like to REPEAT yourself when you've
got NO INFORMATION.
> It is another SWAG,
Maybe you should see the vet, peter. At least put a cork in it.
> but I suspect he may be trying to find his place
> in the pack and he wants to be alpha over your dad.
Shove it, imbecile.
> It also sounds like competition for limited resources that is bringing
> this agression out.
Think Dad's taking Phydough's bone? Think Phydough's jealous of
Dad's relationship with the PRINCESS, peter. What RESOURCES,
peter, the Crown Jewels???
> Those resources in this case being your attention
> and possesion of the bed.
The BIG BED? Moving the bed to the garage would SOLVE the
problem if it's the bed, peter.
> At any rate: consult a behavior consultant.
You gonna recommend one, peter? HOWE about boob maida or
steve boyer, they'll TALK to the dog in "doggie talkie" as trainslated
from the ORIGINAL GREEK.
> This is a series of issues that if not dealt with now at 10 months of
> age may get worse as the dog matures.
Says you, peter? HOWE'S that favorite best pal dog of yours, peter?
DEAD???
Did you give ed w of petloss dot CON fifty bucks so you could get
your rainbow bridge tee shirt that says I gently and humanely killed
my best friend because I was too ignorant and too stupid and too
stubborn to LISTEN TO JERRY? Eh, good buddy? Got your tee shirt
for killin your dog?
? Don't let anyone try and tell you that "it's a phase" and
> "he'll grow out of it."
Don't let anyone tell you to waste your hard earned dough on these
self proclaimed "experts," university credentials and all. I've proven
them bums to be shit kickers in this industry. NOW GET THE HEEL
OUTTA HERE.
> Peter L. Berghold Pe...@Berghold.Net
> "Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it."
Here's a couple quotes from your dog abusing lying Thug pals:
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There
Is A Single Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything
But Destructive" amy "Get A 30"- 40" Stick. CHUCK IT Under ITS
Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand," dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap," professora gingold.
And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem Quite Harsh And
Cause You To Cringe. This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few
Times It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."
And here's one from me:
!CAUTION! Dog abusing lying Thugs. Enter at your own peril! You
are responsible for your own loss of credibility and damages to
careers and reputations resultant from being exposed and
discredited. Proceed at your own risk. This is a violence free zone.
Violators will be subject to prolonged emotional, social and
professional punishment and will be pursued to the gates of Heel
and kept within under guard of a Wits' End Trained Dog.
> > I use some of Jerry's methods but I will also use other
> > methods...Alpha
There's lots of methods beyond my own which I condone. My intent
is not to limit methods and tools, but to OBVIATE fear, confrontation,
pain, and intimidation based methods your "experts" rely on, that
gets their best dogs DEAD, through teaching dog owners HOWE
dogs think and learn and HOWE to rehabilitate and recondition
behavior problems using a cohesive gestalt as presented in the
FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual.
> > Treat your dog like a dog
Seems we got two kinds of trainers.
One kind are the experts who approach every dog as an individual
and hurts and kills them individually, as necessary... and the other
kind like me and Marilyn and Patch and Canis55 who train every
individual the same way, using non violence and letting everyone live
through training someHOWE, without hurting nobody.
Let's weight that out... On the one hand we got experts who hurt and
kill the top 10% of their dogs. On the other we got trainers who never
hurt nobody and train dogs successfully without pain and death.
Hmmm. Let's work that out? PAIN + DEATH, Vs FUN + LIFE.
PAIN/DEATH.
FUN/LIFE.
PAIN, DEATH.
FUN, LIFE.
OPTIONS: KILL, LIVE.
O.K. What's the choices again?
live or die?
CANDACE!!!~~~~ j;~}
And here's a couple quotes from my students:
> ~misty
> Charlie
<"Terri"@cyberhighway
Rober Crim writes:
>Terri
Hello People,
Hi Jerry,
Elaine
Yours, Jerry.
Thanks, Elaine,
-Jerry Howe-
Peter L. Berghold
Spoke Thusly about
"Re: "hanging" dogs.PAIN + DEATH, Vs FUN + <snip!>
[*]You don't have to be a veteran
[*]
I wasn't very clear. What I meant was when he claims to be an Army Ranger
or whatever-the-hell he says he was, all someone who has any shred of
exposure to the military has to do is listen to his BS and know he
wasn't.
Jerry Howe
"Peter L. Berghold" <> wrote in message
news:slrn9sfb2q...@uboat.berghold.net...
> In rec.pets.dogs.behavior, Cindy(tit...@bermuda.io.com)
> Spoke Thusly about
> "Re: "hanging" dogs.PAIN + DEATH, Vs FUN + <snip!>
> [*]You don't have to be a veteran
> [*]
>
> I wasn't very clear. What I meant was when he claims to be an Army
Ranger
> or whatever-the-hell he says he was, all someone who has any shred of
> exposure to the military has to do is listen to his BS and know he
> wasn't.
Hey peeter,
Want PROOF?
Here: "Legs SUCK."
BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!! j;~}
Now get the heel outta here. j;~}
Jerry Howe
Would you please give us the link to your forced fetch page?
WE've asked several times before, and you only tell us stuff like you'll
sue us for copyright infringement for stealing your work...
We don't want to sell you works, cindy. We want to teach it to people,
for free. We'll give you all the credit for it.
I've got a prosecutor in your town who's eager to review your forced
fetch methods for consideration for submission to a grand jury.
What's that link again? Bye! j;~}
"Cindy" <tit...@bermuda.io.com> wrote in message
news:ycLx7.52261$NL.26...@news6.giganews.com...
Leah
>Ninnyboy is a modern day version of Walter Mitty. Walter had delusions
>of being a surgeon, fighter pilot, airline pilot, detective, and I can't
>remember what all else.
Sounds like another prolific poster besides Ninnyboy, too. :}
See My Furry Family At:
http://www.angelfire.com/fl5/dogs0
Learn How to Can Spam
http://www.whew.com/Spammers/reportspam_stepbystep.shtml
Internet Secrets, 2nd Edition, by John Levine (All About Spam, p. 277)
nancy
pe...@uboat.berghold.net (Peter L. Berghold) posted to
alt.pets.dogs.labrador:</attrib>
> Jerry is a traitor
Dunno how you'd get *THAT* accusation out there, but the
rest fits. He appears to be a pathological liar.
But, at any rate, I need to ask you to PLEASE trim your
crossposts to keep alt.pets.dogs.labrador out of your
conversations regarding Jerry, OR, if you MUST keep his
crossposts going, at least put (ninnyboy) or (howe) in
the heading so that those APDLers who killfile may
be kept happy.
APDL is a small group. The last thing I feel it needs is
the sort of Jerry traffic that RPDB suffers from!
Thanks for your help!
--
nancy
He was as tall as a six-foot, three-inch tree. -- from a collection of
really bad similes
sionnach
"Cindy" wrote:
> > Walter Mitty was at least moderately entertaining.
And Walter had a REAL dog, too. ;-)
("Puppy biscuit. That man just said 'puppy biscuit'".)
sionnach
"Leah" wrote:
> >Ninnyboy is a modern day version of Walter Mitty. Walter had delusions
> >of being a surgeon, fighter pilot, airline pilot, detective, and I can't
> >remember what all else.
>
> Sounds like another prolific poster besides Ninnyboy, too. :}
Um, Leah? Do you really not know who Walter Mitty is/was?
(If you don't, get thee to a library and look for the works of James
Thurber. Other stories not to be missed are "The night the ghost got in",
"Snapshot of a dog", and "The Unicorn in the Garden".)
Jerry Howe
"Peter L. Berghold" <pe...@uboat.berghold.net> wrote in message
news:slrn9sendl...@uboat.berghold.net...
> In rec.pets.dogs.behavior, diddy(di...@nospam.diddy.net)
> Spoke Thusly about
> "Re: "hanging" dogs.PAIN + DEATH, Vs <snipped header>
> [*]Even if he were.. Obviously his expert testimony will be
> discredited [*]once they discover he's insane.
Yeah. Insane. There's a fine line between genius and madman, love and
hate, play and aggression. It's hard to differentiate sometimes with an
untrained, inexperienced eye. That's why we study.
> I've seen posts on this NG and others by Ninnyboy that make him
> out to be a Seal,
I see HOWE you made that error, Seal being Navy SF, me being Army SF.
> Secret Agent
I never mentioned any such thing, but I see HOWE you came to that error,
being as Uncle Sam must have made quite a mistake giving this traitor a
secret security clearance to study at the Kennedy Center For Special
Warfare.
> and more stuff than anybody in a whole lifetime
> could possibly do.
Yeah. And I've got another forty years to go yet, to show myself up,
cause I'm the only competition I have. Gets lonely at the top, so I've
got to find something challenging, and that gets moore difficult with
every achievement and every turn.
> Nevermind that someone like myself who is an honest to goodness
> veteran
Draftee? CO? Straight leg?
> can see this Bovine Scatology from a mile off and I'm sure I'm not
> the only veteran on this NG.
Well, let's just stick to talking dog training, because that's the topic
at hand.
> Jerry is a traitor, a liar and a bully.
HOWE'S that little mentally retarded dog of yours, your favorite you was
fixin to KILL because of his sibling rivalry aggression? I've got
methods that'll cure that for FREE, and my machine will do that too, for
a price without needing to do nuthin but turn it on.
> Jerry is so full of crap that he grows potatoes in his ears.
Dispute my training information. You can't. Nobody can. Challenge the
posters who've used and benefitted from my methods and/or machine.
> He wouldn't know a properly trained dog if it bit him on his I'm sure
> ample buttocks.
Ask Charlie, Misty, Paul, Lisa, Robert Crim, Marilyn, Canis55, Parker,
ask any one who's tried my methods, not your pals who hurt dogs and call
me names because I've exposed them as lying dog abusing Thugs...
> He spends all his time hanging himself,
Yes, with my lies. Like my machine. Like my method.
> twisting his own toes, slapping himself and all the crap that he
> accuses all of us "THUGS" of doing.
Did you kill that favorite dog of yours, peeter?
I think that's why you're mad at me. You'd rather kill your dog than
prove I'm right. That's O.K., I expected to meet and discredit Thugs
like you. That's why I came here, isn't it...
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+
> Peter L. Berghold Pe...@Berghold.Net
> "Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it."
Here's a couple quotes from your dog abusing lying Thug pals:
Jerry Howe
Your pal tara's dog Summer seems to be going nuts attacking children.
Tell her not to try to train her using my FREE Wits' End Dog Training
Method manual and not to believe Jerry. j;~}
"Leah" <dfrnt...@aol.comMURK-OFF> wrote in message
news:20011013070549...@mb-fx.aol.com...
Lynn K.
> I wasn't very clear. What I meant was when he claims to be an Army Ranger
> or whatever-the-hell he says he was, all someone who has any shred of
> exposure to the military has to do is listen to his BS and know he
> wasn't.
You've got to be kidding me! I killfiled him again several weeks ago,
so must have missed that one. On one hand you have the quiet, stolid
Special Ops personality - and on the other hand, Jerry. It doesn't compute.
Lynn K.
Jerry Howe
"Lynn K." <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37cd72a9.0110...@posting.google.com...
> pe...@uboat.berghold.net (Peter L. Berghold) wrote in message
news:<slrn9sfb2q...@uboat.berghold.net>...
> > I wasn't very clear. What I meant was when he claims to be an Army
> > Ranger
I never mentioned Ranger, that's a course at least way back when I was
in, that officer's and nco's get if they've got some extra time to
spare...
> > or whatever-the-hell he says he was, all someone who has any shred
of
> > exposure to the military has to do is listen to his BS and know he
wasn't.
Fine. Let's talk dog training then, shall we?
> You've got to be kidding me!
We wouldn't kid you lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn. You're personna non
gratta here. You're finished. You're a lying dog abusing Thug. We don't
need your kind polluting our dog groups. You couldn't hurt your own dog
Java enough to make him work sar. Selectively bred, hand picked and
tested, trained within an inch of you being able to figure out HOWE to
HURT him enough to make him work in a RL situation.
> I killfiled him again several weeks ago,
You're a proven liar. You read my posts first.
> so must have missed that one.
You read all my posts first.
> On one hand you have the quiet, stolid Special Ops personality -
What would you know about it?
> and on the other hand, Jerry.
I've come in here and proven you a liar and dog abuser.
> It doesn't compute.
It's in blackman and white. You're a proven liar and dog abuser.
> Lynn K.
Here's moore PROOF:
Hello People,
"Huh? I've Never Reeled In A Dog In My Life. I Don't Like The Long Line
Method And Don't Use It." lynn k.
Read the following and then let's discuss proofing.
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkos...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Reliable recall
Date: 1999/07/15
a...@math.ams.org wrote:
>
> Rather, I feel that I need to put a
> long line on Brandywine and then "accidentally" let him escape,
> and then do the training.
You're confusing training with proofing. You need to work with the
long line in a situation you can control first, to be sure he
understands the connection between the command and the recall action.
You don't want to set him up with a "escape" until he is reliably
coming on his own accord, all the time. Then you start to add
increasing proofs, with his normal escape pattern as the highest
level.
Timing is critical here, because what you want if for him
to think about escaping, maybe even start, but still have time to
give the command and have him decide to come back to you before he hits
the end of the long line.
Lynn K.
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkos...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Help! Aust.Sheperd herding colts!
Date: 1999/06/19
Trudi Rioux wrote:
>
> Hi. I'm new here and don't even know if this is the right place.
Welcome, and yes, this is the right place.
> But.....if it is....I have 2 yr old Aust. sheperd female, herding
> colts while I'm training. I need advice re training me to train her.
You have to do 2 separate things: deny her the opportunity to
chase and convince her that chasing is not something she wants to
do.
The very 1st thing is to secure her while you're training so
she can't chase when you are preoccupied and can't work with her.
This is important because every time she successfully chases, it
reinforces the act. A single successful chase can wipe out the
benefits of many very good training sessions to convince her not
to chase.
To discourage her from chasing, you want to use a distraction
like a shake can, throw chain, discs, or electronic collar. (There
are many training books that can help you with the use of these
things.) When she alerts and is just starting for a colt, use the
distraction device. Don't say anything; you don't want her to
associate the distraction with you - just use it out of the blue.
When she lifts her head back towards you, praise the heck out
of her and step backwards, encouraging her to come back to you, with
lots of praise. You might want to do this with a long line tied
to a fence post the 1st few times, just to make sure she can't
chase, but give the distraction before she hits the end of the line.
Lynn K.
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkos...@home.com)
Subject: Re: "Down" command (for Leon)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
View: Complete Thread (197 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/09/08
> Robert Crim wrote:
> So........what do you think a "come to Jesus meeting" is?
Why on earth are you fixating on this term? It is, BTW, a
term I happen to use a lot, though more in dealing with humans
than with dogs. I'm sure you know full well the derivation of
the term, and can't figure out why you are putting what seems
to be a negative spin on it. To me, a "come to Jesus meeting"
is a pivotal point, where a pattern or behavior is stopped and
a more productive one substituted. Just as it was in the revival
tents where the phrase came from.
I had a "come to Jesus meeting" yesterday with 2 fighting humans
in a conflict that was undermining a training program, and, yes,
that was the term I used to describe the resolution session.
And, yes, I've had more than a few "come to Jesus meetings" with
dogs over willful disobedience. Example - pup who knows full well
what a recall is hits adolesence and decides that the recall is
optional. Putting him back on a long line and doing 5 fast recalls
is a "come to Jesus meeting". Or if he suddenly decides that he
can release himself from a down/stay after being solid at it for
5 months, and turns it into a catch-me game, a sharp downward
collar correction as you put him back into position is a "come to
Jesus meeting". Don't infer from that description that force is an
intrinsic part of it, though, because it isn't. I know that that is
what you are trying to get at, but you'd be very wrong.
Lynn K
Jerry Howe
> You've got to be kidding me! I killfiled him again several weeks ago,
> so must have missed that one. On one hand you have the quiet, stolid
> Special Ops personality - and on the other hand, Jerry. It doesn't
compute.
>
> Lynn K.
Search Result 1
From: Jerry Howe (jh...@cfl.rr.com)
Subject: Re: schutzhund = THREE POSTS, THREE DIFFERENT STORIES...
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
View complete thread (2 articles)
Date: 2000/10/01
Hello lyinglynn,
"Lynn Kosmakos" <lkos...@home.com> wrote in message
news:39D77B7C...@home.com...
> Kaibic wrote:
> > Hi Jerry,
> > Where did you get this information? I'm just curious.
> Michelle, Jerry is the first person to admit that he doesn't
> do ScH.,
And YOU are the FIRST person to earn the LYING title here by falsely
quoting me... I do not do shitshound because it is IRRELEVANT.
> and he's shown numerous times that he's never even seen
> it done or trained.
I've specialized in giant breed protection training for three dozen
years. I've trained many hundreds of protection dogs. Many of whom
had been washed out of shitshound or police academys.
> He's made all sorts of inaccurate statements about the sport, the
> rules, the training, etc..
Care to QUOTE ME? Go ahead. Find my most objectionable statements,
and we can discuss them. You like to drop a lie, and
then you don't respond, saying that's OLD HAT. Well, just quote my
worst statements...
You can't understand HOWE I can train a reliable K-9 without
switching and flanking IT.
Switching and flanking are PAINFUL, and IRRELEVANT to the work.
You pull ears, tails, beat dogs with sticks, slap them around while
muzzled... Talk to us, lyinglynn. Go ahead, speak right up.
> Lynn K.
Your posts on HOWE you use the pronged choke collar are down the
page a bit. Three different posts, three different LIES.
lyinglynn writes:
> For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
> pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
> When he barks, use the line for a correction.
A CORRECTION? You're going to JERK and CHOKE
the dog out of being AFRAID... that's CORRECTION?
lyinlynn says: "I LOVE KOEHLER," and in the next
breath denies being a 'koehler trainer.' Is that
because she ALSO shocks dogs, and koehler never
had a shock collar?
Pity that he was born too late to benefit from such a
wondrous teaching tool, ISN'T it???
Psychoclown wrote:
Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure.
LIAR. I'll just copy a direct quote or two or three or
four or five or six... HOWE many direct quotes would
you like???
Amy lyingfrosty dahl LIES with a straight face and
says:
"I don't beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. For the
benefit of anyone who is in doubt, and who chooses
not to read the article (SHE'D REALLY LIKE IT IF
YOU DON'T READ IT!), there is NO mention in it of
"twisting ears (INDEED, SHE PINCHES THEM WITH
SPIKES).
I would never slap a dog (SHE TEACHES PEOPLE TO
BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS TO MOTIVATE THEM).
I would never advise anyone to slap a dog
(SHE'S A PROVEN LIAR AND DOG ABUSER, do you
expect her to ADMIT THE TRUTH???).
I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever,
where slapping a dog is anything but destructive."
RIGHT. She PINCHES, not twists... and chin cuff
doesn't mean hit, according to lyinglynn and avrama....
amy lyingfrosty dahl continues:
"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less
tractable dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply.
REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent
that resisting your will fades in importance.
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in"
With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'
Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.
Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of as
force-fetching: the ear pinch.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead
of your thumb;
even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against
that
Say "fetch" while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear.
if the dog still does not open its mouth, get out the shotshell.
You've got three different posts detailing three different ways you jerk
and choke dogs on pronged choke collars, each post denying the other
two.
THREE POSTS, THREE DIFFERENT STORIES...
Let's talk about pronged choke collars?
First you say you do use them. Then you say you don't. Then
you say you never said you do, and just move on to the next
lie. Then you say you only use them once in a while on an
already ''trained'' dog to ''proof'' him...
You're BUNK never ends, so I'm just going to drown you in a
river of your own lies and contradictions... and show everyone
the abusive, lying, cretin, you REALLY are.
Here's ONE of your posts that CONTRADICTS THE OTHER TWO:
>
http://x71.deja.com/threadmsg_ct.xp?AN=624211909.1&mhitnum=88&C
ONTEXT
> =963925793.2102001818
> "This, btw, is why I prefer a prong to a choke. The hand
> movement to tap the lead is easier for me with a prong than
> the more difficult larger movement to zip 1 to 2 inches of
> choke chain to get sound only."
Here's ANOTHER OF YOUR POSTS, CONTRADICTING THE OTHER TWO:
>
http://x71.deja.com/threadmsg_ct.xp?AN=624605571.1&mhitnum=99&C
ONTEXT
> =963925793.2102001818
> "Note that this is exactly how I use the prong collar to
> signal a correction by tapping on the lead. In both cases,
> the collar is just a mechanism to send a signal - not a device
> for physical control."
AND YET ANOTHER POST CONTRADICTING THE OTHER TWO!:
http://x72.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=627055606&search=thread&CONTEX
T=9641
> 82692.275644419&hitnum=163
> "That wasn't the question. I simply said that I've seen the
> collar used strictly to send a sound for distraction purposes,
> without ever tightening on the dog's neck. I don't use that
> method."
YOU CAN'T JUST CHANGE WHAT YOU JUST SAID, AS YOU GO ALONG...
THAT'S CALLED LYING...
Ciao. Jerry. j;~}
Damon W
(besides being a pathological liar), so HOW many have you put out of
business?
Leah
wrote:
Haven't read about Walter Mitty, but I did read a collection of James Thurber's
works that were all about dogs.
Damon W
(besides being a pathological liar), so HOW many have you put out of
business?
> Hello lyinglynn,
>
Jerry Howe
manual...instead of fiction.
"Leah" <dfrnt...@aol.comMURK-OFF> wrote in message
news:20011014213013...@mb-fw.aol.com...
Kind2dogs
> PAIN, DEATH. FUN, LIFE. OPTIONS: KILL,
>Date: Sun, Oct 14, 2001 9:30 PM
>Message-id: <20011014213013...@mb-fw.aol.com>
>
>>"sionnach" rhyf...@email.msn.com
>wrote:
>
>>> >Ninnyboy is a modern day version of Walter Mitty. Walter had delusions
>>> >of being a surgeon, fighter pilot, airline pilot, detective, and I can't
>>> >remember what all else.
>
>>> Sounds like another prolific poster besides Ninnyboy, too. :}
>
>> Um, Leah? Do you really not know who Walter Mitty is/was?
>>
>>(If you don't, get thee to a library and look for the works of James
>>Thurber. Other stories not to be missed are "The night the ghost got in",
>>"Snapshot of a dog", and "The Unicorn in the Garden".)
>
>Haven't read about Walter Mitty, but I did read a collection of James
Thurber's
>works that were all about dogs.
Yup, and he also was a cartoonist for The New Yorker,
His dog drawings were of a long earred,short haired wrinkled face type of dog.
Sorta like a small bloodhound or basset.
Walter Mitty is this milquetoast guy who is VERY hen- pecked and has compulsive
daydreams and fantasizes about him being a hero in different adventures.
I think there is a real term in behaviourial psych called The Walty Mitty
Syndrome, as well.
Oh one more tidbit, a real cute old movie had Danny Kaye playing Walter...
Woof
Paulette~
Never explain.
Your friends don't need it,
And your enemies won't believe it anyway...
A dogs life is too short...
Their only fault really...
sionnach
"Damon W" <dwi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:tsk6cas...@corp.supernews.com...
None, of course. If you want a laugh, go back look up the posts from about
three years ago, where JarJar claimed he was coming up to Baltimore to
discredit Janet Boss and put her out of business... then look at the fact
that she's been on national TV (speaking against BSL) several times this
year, including an interview with Sam Donaldson. ;-D
Or look at the crap he says about Diane Blackman, then look up the issue
of Time where her website was named as one of the best in existence.
Go to the library and look up Cindy Moore's Hershe, one of the best SAR
cadaver dogs in the US; there's also a successful mystery novel whose author
mentions the Moores.
For that matter, look at the way he disparages Suzanne Clothier (except
when he stole her material <g>) and her methods.... then think about the
fact that my agility coach has studied with Suzanne for years, and that at
the recent NADAC nationals, three members of our team took first place
overall in their respective height categories, and one of those same ppl
also took third place with his younger dog. Several other members placed
fairly high in the overall rankings.
Meanwhile, nobody outside of USENET has ever heard of JarJar- not even
people who live in the same city as he does.
Jerry Howe
"Kind2dogs" <kind...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011015031934...@mb-mw.aol.com...
> >Subject: Re: "hanging" dogs.PAIN + DEATH, Vs FUN + LIFE PAIN/DEATH.
FUN/LIFE.
> > PAIN, DEATH. FUN, LIFE. OPTIONS: KILL,
> >From: dfrnt...@aol.comMURK-OFF (Leah)
> >Haven't read about Walter Mitty, but I did read a collection of James
> Thurber's works that were all about dogs.
> Yup, and he also was a cartoonist for The New Yorker,
> His dog drawings were of a long earred,short haired wrinkled face type
of
> dog.
> Sorta like a small bloodhound or basset.
> Walter Mitty is this milquetoast guy who is VERY hen- pecked and has
compulsive
> daydreams and fantasizes about him being a hero in different
adventures.
> I think there is a real term in behaviourial psych called The Walty
Mitty
> Syndrome, as well.
> Oh one more tidbit, a real cute old movie had Danny Kaye playing
Walter...
Hello " 'too many no kill shelters?' 'YES!!!' kind 2 not too many dogs
at all, really,
Yeah. Around here we've got DEAD DOG SYNDROME.
Ask your former most favorite poster Robert Crim and my buddy Rollie.
Ask
your former pal Robert about his former dog Fritz. Ask steve walker's
kids
HOWE much they miss their DEAD DOG Sampson? And ask tara to send
Summer to Jerry HOWE'S instead of to eddie's Bridge.
You got plenty of bucks, paulette. Why don't you send tara some pocket
change to get Summer over to my HOWES to live out her life in peace
instead of being held down by mikey ball or janet boss and get her
cookie and sweet nuthing lied into her ears while their expert
technician kills her?
> Woof
You might get shocked for woofing around here.
> Paulette~
> Never explain.
Care to explain HOWE COME your pal lyingdogDUMMY told Paul
and Marty they'd NEED to HURT their dogs MOORE than they'd
LIKE to break a simple case of coprophagia and everyone agreed?
And care to explain why he told them my methods wouldn't work, not
to believe me, and when they both reported a few days later that their
problems had been extinguished without hurting NOBODY, your pal
lyingdogDUMMY tells them they've only intimidated their dog using
my NON FORCE, NON CONFRONTATIONAL techniques, and their
dogs would continue to do that behind their backs? REMEMBER
PAULETTE?
That's why you lying dog abusing Thugs claim I'm in your killfiles
because you can't discuss the ISSUES with me without looking like
you hurt and kill dogs and make money off of it.
What else would we EXPECT from you, kind 2 not too many dogs at
all, REALLY, TOO MANY NO KILL SHELTERS? "YES!!!" paulette.
> Paulette~
I hear your pal lyingdogDUMMY is sittin on the crapper smokin a
arturo fuente while whittling you a nice duck decoy so you can go
shoot some coot and leave them for the fishes when you're done
warming up for duck season.
> Your friends don't need it,
Because your friends all do likewise, that's why they all lie and stick
together on it and have learned to switch stories all at once together
in mid lie without even a bump.
> And your enemies won't believe it anyway...
Oh oh. BUMP.
> A dogs life is too short...
"YES!!! Too many no kill shelters," kind to youreslf and the other
lying, dog abusing Thugs.
> Their only fault really...
Really? Seems to me they owe an awful lot to our friends who are
also KIND to dogs and don't want them to suffer, yet don't think of
suffering as being jerked and choked on a pronged spiked pinch
choke collar and being shocked and beaten with a 30"-40" inch
HICKORY STICK.
Well, when expert trainers need to pinch and twist ears and toes and
testicles to make dogs WANT to hunt and work with them, and
they're the SELF APPOINTED "experts" who tell us that is
APPROPRIATE, then someone is very clearly mistaken.
Competent dog trainers DO NOT NEED TO INFLICT PAIN to train a
dog. THAT'S what gets some of them VERY DEAD. Like Fritz, like
Sampson, and that little dog in "interesetd in hearing" "my dog bit a
kid" "Symphony," and now Summer, and the rest of the dogs you and your
pals
have helped right here.
Have a better day tommorow. Today, you should suffer. Jerry.
Peter L. Berghold
Spoke Thusly about
"Re: "hanging" dogs.PAIN + DEATH, <snip!>
[*]>Subject: Re: "hanging" dogs.PAIN + DEATH, <snip!>
[*]> PAIN, DEATH. FUN, LIFE. OPTIONS: KILL,
[*]
[*]I think there is a real term in behaviourial psych called The Walty Mitty
[*]Syndrome, as well.
[*]
On the money. I learned about the psychological reference before I read
Walter Middy.
--
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Peter L. Berghold
Spoke Thusly about
"Re: "hanging" dogs.PAIN + DEATH, <snip!>
[*]Howe's support of the terrorists & his jokes about the 9/11 attack are
[*]truly sickening.
Yeah.. I went out the the NG archives when I first heard wind of his
statements because I had to see them for myself. It is really disturbing
that someone can live in this country as a free citizen and have that
kind of mindset.
But taken as a whole it makes sense that he would be that way considering
the rest of his charming nature. Howe they'd love him in Afghanistan! ;-)
Peter L. Berghold
Spoke Thusly about
"Re: "hanging" dogs.PAIN + DEATH + Proof":
[*] Meanwhile, nobody outside of USENET has ever heard of JarJar- not even
[*]people who live in the same city as he does.
[*]
[*]
Howe do we even know what city he lives in? That could be a lie for all
we know. Everything else about JERk is a lie.
Jerry Howe
much like our dog lovers do... j;~}
"Peter L. Berghold" <pe...@uboat.berghold.net> wrote in message
news:slrn9sr868...@uboat.berghold.net...
Lynn K.
> But taken as a whole it makes sense that he would be that way considering
> the rest of his charming nature.
It's what made me killfile him again. There's just no ignoring that anyone
who is so self-centered that they would turn this tragedy to a comment about
themselves is insane. I mean that in a medical sense. He reminds me of a
dog so desparate for attention that they misbehave to get negative attention.
Lynn K.
Lynn K.
> Howe do we even know what city he lives in? That could be a lie for all
> we know. Everything else about JERk is a lie.
From the addresses on business licenses, etc. There has been a site with
photos that are purported to be of his office and home. If those photos
are accurate, it would be difficult to imagine how multiple dogs could be
housed at either location.
Lynn K.
Jerry Howe
"Lynn K." <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37cd72a9.01101...@posting.google.com...
> pe...@uboat.berghold.net (Peter L. Berghold) wrote in message
news:<slrn9sr8b2...@uboat.berghold.net>...
> > Howe do we even know what city he lives in? That could be a lie for
all
> > we know. Everything else about JERk is a lie.
There's nothing you can find anywhere that I've lied about. It's not
like you bums quote my lies like I quote your pals here abusing dogs and
lying about it...
> From the addresses on business licenses, etc. There has been a site
with
> photos that are purported to be of his office and home.
Yeah, that's what your pal dogman who told Paul and Marty they'd NEED to
HURT their dogs MOORE than they'd LIKE to break them of poo eating has
tried to use to discredit my INFORMATION.
Fortunately, my friends Paul and Marty didn't LIKE hurting their dogs AT
ALL,
just like your former best buddy and MY good buddy now, Robert Crim
AFTER
you bums led him to KILL his dog Fritz. They LEARNED from Robert and his
DEAD DOG FRITZ, and followed my instructions in my FREE Wits' End Dog
Training Method manual and solved their behavior problem in just a few
minutes
over a couple of days without hurting NOT NOBODY... except our lying,
dog
abusing Thugs who told them they'd NEED to HURT their dogs to break the
behaviors. Just like you bums told Robert before he killed his dog
Fritz.
That's why your pal lyingdogDUMMY ain't posting here no moore. And
that's why I've got the $100.00 reward for any non force/avoidance
methods of TRAINING a dog not to eat poo, raid the garbage, jump fences,
dig holes, you can't claim the rewards monies, can you EXPERTS???
BWWWWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
> If those photos are accurate, it would be difficult to imagine how
multiple dogs
> could be housed at either location.
I've also got a $1000.00 reward for dual tuned shock collar trainer to
break a
dog/dog aggession problem. And, just to be FAIR, I'll increase the
$100.00
dollar reward for a dual tuned shock collar trainer to break a SHY dog
of
shyness... TO ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS.
> Lynn K.
You should be able to bankrupt me in about thirty minutes of work...
Maybe you missed this part, where you proved there is NO WAY to give
an appropriate or effective CORRECTION???
We got Llama Spit, eh lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn???
We got ENOUGH Llama Spit to drown all of our rpdb lying dog abusing
Thugs at once. Care to try to talk your way outta this one? You've boxed
yourself into Wits' End Dog Training, and now, you're going to have to
go
the way of the dinosewer. Dogs don't deserve to eat $#!T and die because
you punks can't stop hurting them to make your defective ego's whole...
This ought to be worth a laugh:
Hello lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn,
"Lynn K." <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37cd72a9.01101...@posting.google.com...
> "BethF" <da...@alaskaREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
news:<tsmb1fl...@corp.supernews.com>...
> > Well if only punishments diminish behavior we could never train
our dogs
> > NOT to do something without punishing them, no?
> You've hit at the heart of it -
Well, no wonder I've not been able to embarrass you outta here. I've
been cutting off your goddamned head and hiding it from you and you
keep putting it back on. I shouldda known I shoulda just cut your
heart out but I didn't think you HAD one.
> we want to teach them what to do rather than teach them what not
to do.
And I want to expose you as the lying dog abusing Thug you are. You
make it EZ.
> IOW, give them an alternate behavior they can be rewarded for.
I don't do that at all. That's why my students extinguish behavior
problems in one day in many cases, like Charlie Wilcox with his
aggression problem and the 85 year old cripple lady in a wheelchair
with a barking dog. ONE DAY no more aggression or barking and a
cripple at that. She had a hard time using her clicker so had to
give up on THAT method.
> A great example is jumping up on people.
Yeah. Like that fox going after the grapes. That's you trying to fit
your sick methods in here. You've hung yourself again lying "I LOVE
KOEHLER" lynn.
> Punishing them for jumping up is nowhere near as effective as
rewarding
> them for sitting to greet.
I don't punish and I don't reward. That's why you bums have behavior
problems.
> So rather than punish the jump, we give a correction
You just said: "That gentle and joking "silly dog......" is a
correction."
And I said "Sure beats getting whipped with dahl's 40" hickory
switch or a hangin.
And you said: "Every bit as much of a correction as a nick with an
electronic collar."
> to indicate that it isn't a wanted behavior,
"Rather than punish the jump we give a correction?"
Does that make any sense on any level? You're mimicing professor
lying doc "scruff shake" dermer who punishes behaviors and not the
dog. You're double talking us again because you don't know HOWE to
train a dog without hurting him. Take my reward money if you think
you can.
> then reward the desired behavior, sitting for petting.
Well, according to the FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual,
the dog is NO LONGER THINKING about the behavior he's just done,
he's thinking of the NEXT behavior, which would probably be JUMPING
AGAIN.
Then you've got to CORRECT AGAIN. And you've got to increase the
ATTENTION GETTING PROPENSITIES of your corrections, which as you've
already AGREED, an uhuh is just as PAINFUL as a nick from your shock
collar or the WHOOSH! of your hickory stick.
> Lynn K.
That's why your pal lyingdogDUMMY don't be posting here no more, you
miserable double talking pathological lying dog abuser. Get the heel
outta here.
Peter L. Berghold
Spoke Thusly about
"Re: "hanging" dogs.PAIN + DEATH, Vs FUN [snip!]
[*]He reminds me of a
[*]dog so desparate for attention that they misbehave
[*] to get negative attention.
I had a dog like that.
I used to joke about the fact that he didn't consider his day
complete until he was yelled at and put in his crate for time out.
My wife was the one who he usually torqued off and she'd yell at him
to go to his "BOX!" and he'd run to it "muttering" the whole way there.
The door to his crate would be closed and he'd let out a (honest to God)
contented sigh. He was a really messed up creature.
Jerry Howe
stop threatening and crating your abused, MR dog? Makes me wonder who
was MR...
Why don't you talk dog training, peter? Your pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn just came to realize that even an "Uh uh!" is as "forceful" as a
shock...
Sounds to me like our Thugs are talking outta both sides of their pie
holes again. What does peter think? You read my posts first, you should
have an opinion, since you're so interested in HELPING dogs... Bye! j;~}
"Peter L. Berghold" <pe...@uboat.berghold.net> wrote in message
news:slrn9t0is1...@uboat.berghold.net...
Jerry Howe
outta discussing HOWE to HURT his dog enough to break her of poo
eatin... BWWAHAHAA!!! j;~}
"Karen J. Cravens" <silve...@phoenyx.net> wrote in message
news:Xns913F7DD4...@209.134.108.33...
> "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net> wrote in
> news:eyWz7.8790$B3.3...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com:
>
> > There's nothing you can find anywhere that I've lied about. It's not
> > like you bums quote my lies like I quote your pals here abusing dogs
and
> > lying about it...
>
> Other than the entire contents of
> http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/provenlie.html, anyway. But
Jerry's in
> big-time denial when it comes to Candace.
>
> > Yeah, that's what your pal dogman who told Paul and Marty they'd
NEED to
> > HURT their dogs MOORE than they'd LIKE to break them of poo eating
has
> > tried to use to discredit my INFORMATION.
>
> Hey, that's one of those lies right there!
>
> --
> Karen J. Cravens
>
>
Jerry Howe
growling into its throat and biting the puppy on the ear for pulling on
leash that embarrassed you enough to killfile me? Hmm? Was that it? Go
back to sue sternberg and learn to cull puppies for shelters, you'll
never become a dog trainer, you don't have the intellect for that. Bye!
"Jenn" <pywh...@powersurfEr.com> wrote in message
news:RnRw7.3551$Nq1.3...@news-rep.ab.videon.ca...
> "roo" <r...@kanga.net> wrote in message
> >
> > Hi Jenn,
> >
> > I missed this thread first time - it's funny in parts. You have my
> > admiration for your patience, ability not to get annoyed, to stick
to the
> > point, and keep an independent mind. Thanks - have liked your posts
from
> > when I first noticed them.
> >
> > Alikat
> >
> >
>
> <sheepish grin> I finally got ticked off and killfiled JH again. I
will only
> act as a punching bag for so long, ya know?
>
> I don't know what to say about the rest of your post though. I do not
take
> praise well.
>
> Thanks though!
> --
> Jenn
>
> "Don't accept your dog's admiration as
> conclusive evidence
> that you are wonderful." - Ann Landers
>
> My babies : http://www.geocities.com/pywhacket1971/dogs_1
>
>
>