Re: How to deal with a jumping dog
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
You wouldn't happen to be Steve Boyer, the ONLY
pathetic miserable stinkin rotten animal murderin
mental case PROFESSIONAL dog trainer here who
AIN'T been bagged for LYIN, would you?
"SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote in message
news:02hbp5-...@news.infowest.com...
> I've broken many a dog from jumping up on me.
INDEED?
Dogs jump on folks to GREET them an MHOWETH
them as BONDING behaviors <{}: ~ ) >
SOME EXXXPERT PROFESSIONAL TRAINERS like
Kevin Behan and his students LeeCharlesKelley an Canis55
a.k.a. DEAMON CHILD TRAIN their dogs to jump up to
greet them to CAPITALIZE on dogs NATURAL BONDING
BEHAVIOR <{}: ~ ) >
> The owner asks me, "How come he doesn't jump on you and he jumps on
> everyone else?"
PERHAPS the dogs DON'T LIKE you, eh, Steve?
> I dont' tell him that when the dog jumped, I did the appropriate thing
Oh? You mean LIKE THIS?:
Here's a other pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
anonymHOWES coward, not so handsome, not so
gentle, not so manly, not so happy jackass, not even
morrison aka dogman a.k.a. BIG DADDY, a.k.a.
tommy sorenson:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use a little
"knee action," that is, as the dog goes charging by
you, just give the dog a little bop with your knee
and shin.
Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
> and taught the dog myself, several with just one jump.
Ahhhh~! Might you SHARE the GOOD NEWS with us, SteveB?
> I just say, "I guess he doesn't like me."
Ahhhh, you got a lot in common with your
fellHOWE dog lover pals here, SteveB:
Here again is pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
anonymHOWES coward, not so handsome, not so
gentle, not so manly, not so happy jackass, not even
morrison aka dogman a.k.a. BIG DADDY, a.k.a.
tommy sorenson:
"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens
At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating."
=====================
From: dog...@i1.net (Dogman)
Date: 1999/01/15
Subject: Re: Another mouthy lab
Get this book:
"The Art of Raising A Puppy," by the Monks of New Skete
If you can't find it locally, you can obtain it
through my Web site (see below).
You'll need it for more than just the usual puppy
"mouthing" problems, anyway.
And good luck with your Lab puppy!
--
Dogman
------------------------
And here's WON of his SUCCESS STORIES~!:
From: osi...@deltaville.net (Michael Erskine)
Date: 12 Aug 2004 10:09:05 -0700
Subject: My GSD bit me.
The question:
I have a four year old male GSD. He growls
at me sometimes. When he growls at me he
stares me in the face and lays his ears back.
The New Skete books say that the dog should not be
allowed to do that. They suggest shaking down the
dog by grabing the dog on the sides of his neck and
picking him off his front feet, then giving the dog the
same sort of treatment the dog would give another if
it were challenging him.
Namely getting in the dogs face and letting
the dog know you are the alpha dog.
Well, my dog bit me clearly he felt that I was not
convincing enough or he bit me out of fear.
Anyone got ideas on what to do with this dog that might
help him to decide that he wants to follow and that he
has nothing to fear from me?
----------------------
From: Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 17:21:14 GMT
Subject: Re: My GSD bit me.
You need to improve your acting skills. Get a werewolf
suit with blood-drenched fangs and claw gloves and THEN
go after your dog.
Knock the shit out of him and don't be afraid to crack
some ribs. Then yank the mask off and shout "SURPRISE!
IT'S ME!" I guarantee you and your dog will have a new
relationship based on mutual respect.
Keep in mind that the monks of New Skete
were pre-Lon-Chaney.
Charlie
-----------------------
> Funny, at the time,
Yeah?
You mean LIKE THIS?:
Here's a couple of tommy sorenson's aka not so handsome,
not so gentle, jackass, not even morrison a.k.a. DOGMAN,
the anonymHOWES COWARD's SUCCESSFUL "STUDENTS":
"Feisty, Humorous, Brave, Curious And
Playful. Full Of "Joie de Vivre," And DEAD.
From: Laura Arlov (l...@wordfixers.no)
Subject: Re: Chewie bit my husband !
Date: 1999/01/20
Quote laura:
Well, we're doing as you say Dogman,
and I'll keep you all posted.
Laura in Oslo
You're quite the dog enthusiast, eh laura?
Quote laura:
The listener,
You didn't WANT to listen to The Puppy Wizard when
HE told you you couldn't PUNISH and INTIMIDATE
your dog or you'd make IT aggressive.
Quote laura:
the observer.
NHOWE you got a DEAD DOG HOWETA it.
Quote laura:
We do work were you sometimes have to observe people
Like laura, MURDERING her dog...
Quote laura:
and take notes.
INDEEDY!
Quote laura:
B. has amazing powers of observation and concentration.
RIGHT...
Quote laura:
Laura and Angel in Oslo
steve walker's DEAD DOG Sampson was a shelter / rescue Golden.
He begain TURNING on his daughter so he PUNISHED IT. That
seemed to have CURED Sampson's FEAR of steve's daughter but
TAUGHT IT to attack OTHER daddy's daughters, and GOT HIM
DEAD, despite all the EXXXPERTEASE of HOWER fellHOWE
dog lovers here and the BIG SHOT, john rogerson, in the UK <{}: ~ ( >
LIKE THIS:
Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"
< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.
'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.
>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are
Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?
Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
=====================
> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood
enough of the manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher
and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe and use it.
This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.
Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.
Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)
============
SEE?
tommy sez:
> Sucker.
Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy, "you insipid piece of cow dung!"
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAA~!~!~!
AND LIKE THIS:
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: Steve Walker <skwal...@btinternet.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 01:54:57 +0100
Subject: Sad news (Samson)
Hello everyone, hope you remember me. I've been quiet here for ages,
firstly because of a computer breakdown that took ages to remedy, and
then it's been difficult to find the heart to write to the group again.
You see, on Sep 21, after much heart-searching, I took Samson
back to the RSPCA to be put to sleep. He was a brilliant dog
with his family, but was becoming more & more fear reactive
with people, especially small children, and (apparently randomly)
with other dogs, to the point where we had to muzzle him when
he went out and if we had visitors (which is often), because we
just couldn't trust people to remember to leave him alone, so his
quality of life had become not much.
We put him through a rehab programme from John Rogerson's
practice - I gather he's pretty well-known, so some of you might
have heard of him - which did everything they said it would
(reliable recall, focused his attention much more on us, etc -
except reduce his tendency to react suddenly and bite.
The vet had checked him and found nothing, but I'd still
have suspected a brain tumour or something if it hadn't
been for the fact that he was totally reliable with the kids
and us.
I called the RSPCA to let them know that the rehab programme
wasn't working, and they said that if we gave him back, they'd
assess him but he'd almost certainly be put down.
I couldn't let him be alone among strangers for his last moments,
so I asked if they'd let me take him immediately and stay with
him while it was done, and they agreed.
It was a sunny day, and he was happy enough on the drive to
the centre, but I could barely hold myself together. He was
nervous of going into the surgery and I had to coax him in,
and I felt like an utter traitor.
I stroked him as they prepared him, crying and telling him
how sorry I was, and nearly panicked and ran out with him
when they brought out the needle.
But I knew if I did it would only be delaying the inevitable,
and I'd be risking someone, probably a child, being injured,
which I couldn't do. So I went through with it, and in a few
seconds it was over and I'd killed my dog, who trusted me
to look after him.
I told a mailing list I'm on straight away, and they've been
fantastically kind. I was in a daze for days afterwards, and
still have the occasional flashback to that day, but I'm coping
a lot better now, and would love to give a home to another dog,
but my wife doesn't feel ready yet.
Soon, though, I hope. I miss Samson terribly, but while I feel
a lot of guilt for the decision I made, I know there wasn't another
way out, and at least I could make sure I was with him at the end.
I owed him that.
I know there are some here who will gloat over this email, but all I
can say is that their opinion, their existence, is irrelevant to me. For
the rest of you, the good, decent majority who frequent this group, I
didn't want to just disappear, and not tell you what had happened,
after you gave me so much support and help from the outset.
Samson was my first dog, and the help I got here made life
much better for him and us while we were together.
If the glad day comes when we do adopt another dog,
I'll let you know. I hope it's soon.
God bless,
--
Steve Walker
From: Steve Walker <skwal...@btinternet.com>
Date: 2000/10/09
Subject: Re: Sad news (Samson) = I'm GLAD You Killed Samson,
He Was A BAD GENETIC Choice. You Did The Right Thing. Turn
And Don't Look Back.
In article FJ6E5.62103$O95.4439...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com,
Jerry Howe <jh...@cfl.rr.com> writes
>Nor can I. Nor can Marilyn. She does the same kind of work I do. We
>KNEW this was going to happen, based on steve's original posts here...
Jerry, you're still in my killfile, but somehow this one made it
through, so I'll respond before I ignore you again.
You obviously have a very short memory. Samson was not trained using
aggressive, confrontational or harsh methods. John Rogerson's rehab
programme was based entirely on using kind methods to get Samson's
attention even more fixed on us (which wouldn't have worked if they were
not kind), with the intention that Samson wouldn't even be interested in
other dogs and people, until we had such good control that we could
start to introduce others under controlled circumstances that would
persuade Samson it was great to have them around.
It worked, in so far as Samson became even more attached to us, had a
perfect recall etc. Unfortunately, this didn't stop the fact that he
might suddenly react aggressively to even the proximity of a stranger or
strange dog.
No aggressive methods were used in this programme. Not one. But the
problem was too deep-rooted, too instinctive, and Samson just couldn't
help himself. He'd shake if a small child even entered the room, and if
they approached him he'd try to bite them. Not as a reaction to
aggression, but just because he had some deep-rooted fear issue going
back to before we ever had him.
We could not risk that he would injure someone, especially a child,
so we made the decision we did - not lightly, but with tears.
You, however, are an idiot. Don't bother replying, because even if
one of your posts makes it past the killfile again, you'll just be binned
with the rest of the garbage.
Goodbye.
--
Steve Walker
QUOTE FROM lyingdogDUMMY:
> "The only one I see acting like a fool is you, Crim, for buying into
> anything Howe ever has to say, about anything, and for
> not listening to me when it comes to dogs."
Ever hear the expression "sit rolls down hill?"
> but was becoming more & more fear reactive
> with people, especially small children,
That's it in a nutshell. You taught him through your own actions,
HOWE to deal with other, less capable beings. Dogs copy our
actions and attitudes. They mirror us. They emulate us. And
when we respond to their natural, innate, instinctive, reflexive
behaviors, with punishment, the dog loses confidence in our
judgement and leadership ability.
Seems I recall you mentioning the children were learning to
CORRECT Samson on lead, so THEY could enjoy walking
with him. Didn't you mention they were learning some alpha
dominance techniques as well?
Can't let that big lug pull down the children now, can we?
So you teach the children to violate the dog's trust with a few
good corrections. And YOU back up the children with the
HAMMERS OF HELL...
And it worked. Didn't it, just as I told you so. Just as I told Robert
Crim. But you guys were too smart to be taken in by this con man.
You listened to our fear, force, and alpha dominance control freaks,
who learned ALL that they know about dog behavior from the
MADMAN, MONSTER, wm koehler.
So, it seems the only problem is that you didn't read the back of the
book. That's what our Gang Of Thugs fails to mention, until it's too
late. That's the part that says when the dog is finally provoked to act
out on his trainer or other weaker family members, that you've got to
HANG the dog till his eyes roll back in ITS head, ITS tongue turns
thick and blue and falls out the side of ITS mouth, and when you put
IT back on the ground, IT should stagger to IT'S feet, and PUKE.
That's the cure for this behavior problem, you just never asked.
I expect you'll enjoy your next dog as much as you enjoyed Samson.
Tell him HOWEDY for me, eh good buddy? Eh? Huh? Huh? Eh??? Eh???
Yours for responsible dog handling and training,
Jerry "Don't Confront The Dog" Howe.
From: Dogman <dog...@i1.net>
Date: 2000/10/08
Subject: Re: Sad news (Samson) = ninnyboy
"JohnK" <jo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> It's too late. I already know what a disgusting, vile
> human being you are. You are to be ignored now.
Come on, John.
It didn't really take that Sampson post for you to know
that Howe is a disgusting, vile human being, did it?
I hope not.
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
SEE?
AND LIKE THIS:
Subject: Re: RIP Teena 1999 - 2004
"Handsome Jack Morrison" <me10...@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in
message news:p8sn1093e89a5202r...@4ax.com...
> On 31 Jan 2004 17:48:39 GMT, KWBrown arfenarfSPAMBL...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> Well.
> She tried to take a bite out of our trainer, and that was that.
> Teena the ESS made her last trip to the vet and, I hope,
> sleeps more peacefully than she has in years.
I'm very sorry to hear that, Kate.
But going by the information you posted here about her,
you had no choice.
Godspeed, Teena.
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
Hello Dogdirtforbirdbrains,
You ain't getting away with that any more. You are not going to get
away with blaming genetics for the behavior problems created
through abusive training methods recommended by thugs like you
and Koehler, that cause dogs to turn on their owners and families,
and die as a result!
People are getting smart around here, and fast! You becoming well
recognized for what you are. I don't need to elaborate on that
anymore. Everybody knows.
> What a piece of shit you are, Crim. Blaming me, or blaming
> Koehler, for poor Fritz's problem, is like blaming a doctor who
> couldn't save your child's life, and that's unconscionable.
You told Crim that Koehler was fantastic. He bought it hook, line,
and sinker, and it sank him. You must know the risk, just as I do.
I've seen this sort of thing happen repeatedly for over thirty years.
It will stop. I'm not going to allow you people to get away with it
anymore.
I will dog you, Koehler, and all of your kind right to the gates of
Hell, and I'll train Appallion to keep you there forever. Guaranteed.
The gates of Hell are guarded by a Wits' End trained dog.
> Your dog was almost certainly predestined by his *genes* to end
> up like he did, particularly since he had *you* as his thoroughly
> confused, ignorant and inconsistent doofus owner.
No, it was the Koehler method that killed Fritz. It was your advice
that killed Fritz. It was me, not being here sooner, that killed Fritz.
Crim was a victim, just like Fritz. Crim did everything by the book,
exactly as per the instructions. He followed your advice. He lost,
big time. I could have predicted the outcome, the percentage of this
kind of "collateral damage" is unacceptably high.
Those things, I am certain of. Those things, I am determined to stop.
> The only one I see acting like a fool is you, Crim, for buying into
> anything Howe ever has to say, about anything, and for not
> listening to me when it comes to dogs.
You are mad at me, because I forced Crim to examine exactly what
happened to Fritz, and he came to the correct conclusion. If I
hadn't, he'd be doing the same things he'd done before, but harder,
and faster, and maybe lost his next dog, faster and harder.
You now blame the genes, you now blame Crim for mishandling.
You said it was a good thing he destroyed his untrustworthy dog.
That is the kind of response you have given many people over the
years, isn't it? I know that for certain, I've been fighting you
Thugs all my life. It's almost over now, people are getting wise to
you, and Koehler, and Fraud Die, and the rest of the "in crowd" here.
Before, it was just me fighting for proper handling and training
methods. You've all ganged up on me, trying everything possible to
discredit and intimidate me. That didn't work. Not one of you cretins
have successfully discredited any of my methods. Keep trying, please.
Now, there are several competent professional dog trainers, all with
somewhat different but nonetheless acceptable, non force, methods.
For the first time in my career, I've learned something from another
dog trainer. We've got a good thing going now, and you and our
Gang Of Thugs have to change, or go off into obscurity, in shame and
contempt.
You can't make up for the harm you've done, but you were an
innocent victim just like Crim, and you can be forgiven, and
rehabilitated, and you don't have to continue doing any more harm.
The choice is up to you. It's time to do or die.
> Dogman aka "Big Daddy"
> dog...@i1.net
===================
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> I'm usually bent over petting the tail wagging dog.
Yeah? Tail waggin is a SYMPTOM of anXXXIHOWESNESS.
> Steve
Welcome to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child,
Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method
Manual Forums And Human And Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory.
I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey,
SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard, Director Of
Trainin an Research <{}'; ~ ) >
I've got forty five years of EXXXPERIENCE raising
and training mostly giant breed working dogs for families
and security specializing in temperament and behavior
problems and protection <{}: ~ ) >
Here's your own FREE COPY of The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES,
And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
Training Method Manual:
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard/777witsendmanual.htm
The actual INSTRUCTION begins on the third page "*777*
Wits' End Method", abHOWET 1/4 down the page starting
with "Here's ALL the INFORMATION you NEED" and my
phone # and instructions to CALL ANY TIME.
There you will find ALL the FREE information you need
to pupperly handle raise and train your pets and family.
Just follow the instructions PRECISELY and ASK me if
you need any additional FREE HEELP <{}': ~ ) >
You'll likeWIZE find ETHICAL nutrition and heelth
care practices taught on the heelth page *(last link
on the left side) of my website.
From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
"The day may come when the rest of
the animal creation
may acquire those right
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.
The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham
"A Cheerful Heart Is Good Medicine, But
A Crushed Spirit Dries Up The Bones,"
Proverbs 17:22
Disciple Paulie Sez:
"No One Understands How Wits End Training
Really Works; They Assume It's All Nicey Nicey
And don't Realise It's A Very Disciplined Method
That Deals With Any Situation And The Foundation
Is Built On Trust And Understanding.
I've never forced my dogs to do anything,
I tell them they are good dogs and they
seem to follow me, onceI told them they
were bad dogs and they ran away from me,
now I only ever tell them they are good dogs
and they always are, always.
Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and say
"good dog" sincerely at the end of the request and
I bet you'll find your dog thinking then responding
everytime.
A Bit Of Respect Works Wonders,
The Same Rule Applies
To Every Aspect Of
The Relationship With Your Dog.
Obedience And Affection Are Not Related,
if They Were Everyone Would Have
Obedient Dogs.
I Have Found Giving Dogs "Payment" In Advance i.e.
"Sam sit goodboy" Makes The Dogs WANT TO RESPOND,
After All, All Dogs Want To Be "Good Dogs" And If
You Tell Them They Are Good Then They Feel An
Obligation To Obey Your Request.
Telling Sam He's A Good Dog AFTER He Sit's
Apart From Being Too Late Is Also A Gamble
Because If He Doesn't Sit Then There's No
Positive Interaction.
Paul
-------------------------
ANY QUESTIONS, People?
"Ye shall know the truth,
and the truth shall make you mad." -
~Aldous Huxley.
All Truth Passes Through Three Stages.
First, It Is Ridiculed.
Second, It Is Violently Opposed.
Third, It Is Accepted As Being Self-Evident
-Arthur Schopenhauer-
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls their
hearts and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.
"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
"Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain!"
-Friedrich Schiller.
INDEEDY.
AND THAT'S HOWE COME THEY GOT ME NHOWE!
In Love And Light,
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours
The WORLD'S CRUELEST Trainer,
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
*M-A-J-E-S-T-I-C*
*G-R-A-N-D*
*M-A-S-T-E-R*
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Ferret, Goat, Monkey
SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ;~ ) >
HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >
Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092 (Call ANY TIME)
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard
E-mail:
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
@HotMail.Com
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
@HotMail.Com
TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard @HotMail.Com
MSN, AT&T Or AIM Messenger @:
TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard @HotMail.Com
ThePuppyWizard @BellSouth.Net
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
><jay.c...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:59386eab-316c-4b60...@l43g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Jumping is a really common problem among dogs -
Yeah? Jumpin is EZ to EXXXTINGUISH NEARLY INSTANTLY
simply by DOIN EVERY THING EXXXACTLY PRECISELY
OPPOSITE of HOWE you PREFER.
All you gotta do is BRIEFLY, VARIABLY, ALTERNATELY,
NON PHYSICALLY distract and INSTANTLY praise the jumpin
on several occasions with several people and the behavior will be
PERMENANTELY EXXXTINGUISHED NEARLY INSTANTLY.
> or should I say among dog owners?
It'd be WIZE of you to SAY NUTHIN on my forums, jay.cmpbll.
OtherWIZE you'll be IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED an DISCREDITED
as the lyin scamin spammin DOG ABUSIN CON ARTIST you are.
> It’s rarely a problem for the dogs themselves –
> in fact, jumping seems to act as a reward in itself.
That so? Oh, you mean when the dog lover responds by
IGNORING the behavior or kneein the dog in the chest?
> It’s a different kettle of fish for the exasperated owner,
> who’s forced to deal with a new set of muddy footprints/
> gouges in their skin and clothes/offended guests/ scared
> children!
INDEED? And *you* are fixin to teach us HOWE
to CORRECT the problem, jay.cmpbll?
> Many owners inadvertently encourage jumping behavior
> from puppyhood: when a small puppy comes gamboling
> up to us, wiggling with excitement and making small,
> clumsy leaps at our knees,
INDEED? That's a SUBMISSIVE behavior designed to cause
the mom dog to PUKE up her hunt for the puppys, jay.cmpbll.
> it’s almost natural to lean down and respond in kind.
No, it's NATURAL to PUKE your guts HOWET, jay.cmpbll <{}: ~ ) >
> Effectively, we reward that puppy’s “jump-y” greeting
> by reacting with exuberant affection, hugs and kisses.
You mean, LIKE THIS?:
Here's a other pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
anonymHOWES coward, not so handsome, not so
gentle, not so manly, not so happy jackass, not even
morrison aka dogman a.k.a. BIG DADDY, a.k.a.
tommy sorenson:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use a little
"knee action," that is, as the dog goes charging by
you, just give the dog a little bop with your knee
and shin.
Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
> The puppy learns a fast lesson:
> jumping is a good thing, because it results in plenty
> of positive attention and physical contact.
With mom an pup dog it usually results in BREAKFAST <{}: ~ ) >
> Your dog doesn’t understand the difference between a jump
> as a small, cute puppy, and a jump as a huge, hairy adult. To
> a dog, a greeting is a greeting, and just because he’s aged by
> a few months is no reason to stop jumping – at least, not voluntarily.
NOT TRUE, jay.cmpbll.
The REASON puppys act like PUPPYS long into adulthood
is on accHOWENTA the ignorameHOWES repressive abuse
and mishandling dog lovers like you an your PALS give their dogs.
> You’ll need to take matters into your own hands, and
> make it perfectly clear to your dog that jumping is no
> longer an option.
DO TELL, jay.cmpbll??
> When is jumping not appropriate?
Beyond 8 weeks of age, jay.cmpbll <{}: ~ ) >
> Obviously, whether or not you’re prepared to accept
> your dog’s insistence on redefining verticality all comes
> down to personal preference.
That's INSANE, jay.cmpbll. Apupriate handlin raisin
an trainin of dogs AIN'T a matter of PREFERENCE
or OPINION, it's a matter of SCIENTIFIC FACTS
largely IGNORED, MISUNDERSTOOD and UN-
KNOWN by self puported EXXXPERTS like you
an your pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin animal
murderin PALS here, jay.cmpbll <{}: ~ ( >
> Many owners of smaller dogs actually expect them to jump up –
> among toy dog owners, jumping seems to be viewed as a sign
> of excitement and affection on the dog’s behalf.
It's a SUBMISSIVE behavior, jay.cmpbll. Dog lovers like
you an your PALS here ENJOY submissive doggys <{}: ~ ) >
They give you a sense of P-HOWER an CON-TROLL
an compensates for your fragile defective egos, weak,
fearful minds, and colossal inferiority complexes for
the 1st time in your useless, pathetic, miserable stinkin
rotten manic depressive lives <{}: ~ ( >
> The good news is that these dogs aren’t likely to knock
> anyone flying when they’re feeling rambunctious, and
> they’re small enough that their size usually won’t
> intimidate any but the youngest of children.
That's ABSURD, jay.cmpbll. Small dogs can frighten an damage
small, old, and infirm folks just like HOWE big dogs can <{}: ~ ( >
> On the other hand, there’s rarely a scenario where strangers will
> actively welcome being leapt up on by an unknown dog, regardless
> of said dog’s size;
Perhaps that's *YOUR* EXXXPERIENCE, jay.cmpbll,
HOWEver, it AIN'T been *MY* EXXXPERIENCE as
a professional trainer of mostly giant breed dogs. Folks
ALMOST ALWAYS as me to get my dogs to jump up.
> really, it’s just plain good form to teach your dog the “off” command,
That so, jay.cmpbll? The "OFF COMMAND" happens AFTER
the dog has JUMPED UP, wouldn't you agree, jay.cmpbll??
> so that you’re prepared for those incidences when
>you’re not directly on hand to stop the jumping behavior.
That's INSANE, jay.cmpbll. Tellin the dog "OFF" *after* IT
has JUMPED UP will NOT teach the dog NOT to jump <{}: ~ ( >
> For owners of large-breed dogs, the “off” (or
> “no jump”) command is mandatory.
That's ABSURD, jay.cmpbll. "Teaching" the "OFF"
(ro "no jump command") REINFORCES jumpin and
DOES NOT teach NO JUMPING <{}: ~ ( >
> Big dogs are often taller than humans when they rear up on
> their hind legs (and just imagine the experience from a child’s
> point of view, with a dog’s slavering jaws looming above your
> own head!) –
That's QUEER, jay.cmpbll. My English Mastiffs an Great
Danes tower over children standin on all fours an tower over
most adults when standin on their rear legs.
> they’re often heavy enough to knock smaller adults tip over tail.
You mean, when a 225 pound dog knocks into you you fall over?
> At the very least, a large dog’s paws are heavy enough to
> gouge long rents in cloth and exposed flesh.
Yeah. THAT'S HOWE COME I train my protection
dogs to do that intentionally on command <{}: ~ ) >
> Bruising and scratches are unpleasant enough to deal with
Yeah <{}: ~ ) >
> when they’re your own problem;
NO PROBLEMO, jay.cmpbll. It only takes a couple
instances of EFFECTIVE NON PHYSICAL CON-
DITIONING to EXXXTINGUISH clawing <{}: ~ ) >
> but they’re much worse when your dog’s
> inflicted them on somebody else!
BET YOUR LIFE ON IT, jay.cmpbll <{}'; ~ ) >
> Really, any kind of jumping that involves anyone apart
> from yourself is just bad form. All owners with even
> pretensions of responsibility should arm their dogs with
> a reliable recall to the “off” command – just in case.
You mean INSTEAD of just TRAININ IT not to
jump up UNLESS on command, jay.cmpbll?
> Why does jumping happen?
Oh, THAT'S EZ, jay.cmpbll~!
It's on accHOWENTA ignorameHOWESES like *you*
feedin folks full of BULLSHIT to SELL your idiotic SCAM
OBEDIENCE TRAININ programs, jay.cmpbll <{}: ~ ) >
> The main reason that most dogs jump up is simply out
> of excitement: it’s an enthusiastic greeting, reserved for
> times when adrenaline’s running high and the dog’s
> happy about something.
No, that's BULLSHIT, jay.cmpbll. Jumpin is REINFORCED
by your pathetic ignorameHOWES OBEDIENCE TRAININ.
> Many dogs don’t jump at all,
SEE? Those dogs are likely UN-TRAINED <{}: ~ ) >
> apart from when their owner returns home after a
> relatively prolonged absence (like the average workday).
And HOWE is *THAT*, acceptable, jay.cmpbll??
> If your dog is leaping up on you in these circumstances,
> there’s no sinister motivation at work here: he’s literally
> jumping for joy.
NO, jay.cmpbll. It's SUBMISSIVE behavior designed by
Mother Nature to make mom an pup dog PUKE THIER
GUTS HOWET to feed the puppys <{}: ~ ) >
> A less common, but more serious, reason that some dogs
> will jump is to exert their dominance over you (or over
> whomever they’re jumping on).
HOWE COME would you believe a SUBMISSIVE
behavior is at the same time DOMINANCE, jay.cmpbll?
ARE YOU INSANE or are you a FRAUD?
I'm thinkin you're both INSANE AND a FRAUD <{}: ~ ( >
> Dogs are pack animals: they live in designated hierarchies
> of social rank and order. When a dog needs to assert his
> dominance over a lesser animal, one way of doing so is to
> declare physical superiority, which is usually done by
> “jumping up”: he’ll sling one or both paws over the other
> dog’s shoulders.
That's ABSURD, jay.cmpbll. PACK behavior is centered
on PACK COOPERATION, not DOMINANCE.
The only "DOMINANCE" in a family pack is by the HUMAN AGGRESSOR, the MENTAL
CASES who
HURT INTIMIDATE an MURDER innocent defenseless
dumb critters an LIE abHOWET IT to compensate for
their fragile defective egos, weak fearful minds and
colossal inferiority complexes... IOW, people "taught"
to ABUSE dogs by the PROFESSIONAL OBEDIENCE
TRAINER, jay.cmpbll <{}: ~ ( >
> You’ll be able to tell the basic reason for your dog’s jumping
> simply by considering the circumstances surrounding the event.
> If he only jumps up in periods of great excitement (like during
> play-time,
Then he'd be PLAYIN, right?
> or when you return home from work)
THAT would be SUBMISSIVE behavior CAUSED
BY your REPRESSIVE IGNORAMEHOWES
OBEDIENCE TRAININ, jay.cmpbll <{}: ~ ( >
> then he’s clearly just demonstrating an exuberant frame of mind.
You're FULL OF CRAP, dog abuser.
> If the behavior occurs in a variety of situations, then it’s
> more likely that he’s expressing dominance over you,
THAT'S INSANE, jay.cmpbll <{}: ~ ( >
> which is a more complex issue –
INDEED. We're dealin with MENTAL ILLNESS, jay.cmpbll <{}: ~ ( >
> the jumping’s just a symptom of an underlying
> attitude and communication issue.
RIGHT~! It's called PSYCHOSIS, jay.cmpbll <{}: ~ ( >
> Essentially, you’ll need to make some serious adjustments
> to your overall relationship with your dog, and brush up
> on your alpha-dog techniques
THAT'S HOWE COME DOGS JUMP, jay.cmpbll <{}: ~ ( >
> (tip: SitStayFetch has some fantastic resources on
> coping with a dominant dog – there’s a link to the
> site at the bottom of the page).
"sitstayfetch" is the adam katz / cesar millan Mafia Web Ring SCAM.
> Four paws on the ground, please!
And you think sayin "PLEASE" will train a dog not to jump, jay.cmpbll??
> How you react to your dog’s jumping plays a big role
> in whether or not that behavior gets repeated. You’re
> going to need to make a prolonged effort to be consistent
> in how you choose to deal with this problem:
If a EXXXPERT dog trainer like yourself an cesar millan
or adam kats "need to make a prolonged effort to be consistent
in how you choose to deal with this problem" then you're
DOIN SUMPTHIN WRONG on accHOWETA ALL temperament
and behavior problems CAN BE EXXXTINGUISHED NEARLY
INSTANTLY simply by DOIN EVERY THING EXXXACTLY
PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE you recommend in the
books and videos you SELL <{}: ~ ( >
> for your dog to stop jumping, he needs to be taught
> that it is never ever acceptable for him to do so.
You mean, like if he was PROTECTING you?
CuriHOWES, AIN'T IT, jay.cmpbll, HOWE dog lovers like
*you* and your ilk COMPLAIN when dogs DO normal natural
innate behaviors an TRY to BREAK them of it an THEN they
COMPLAIN that their dog DIDN'T protect them when they
NEEDED their heelp <{}: ~ ( >
>This means that you can’t allow him to jump sometimes,
> but forbid him from doing it at other times.
Ahhhh~! THAT'S the PROBLEM, jay.cmpbll.
You CANNOT "FORBID" a behavior withHOWET
CALLIN attention to it an REINFORCIN the undesirable
behaviors <{}: ~ ( >
> Your dog can’t understand the difference between
You think dogs are as STUPID as the pathetic ignorameHOWESES
who BUY your idiotic CRUEL OBEDIENCE TRAININ program?
> a playful and an irritable mood,
Hmmm.
Seems you're makin EXXXCUSES for bein mentally ill, jay.cmpbll.
> or your work and play clothes:
You mean like: "apart from when their owner returns home after
a relatively prolonged absence (like the average workday)."??
Seems you want it BOTH WAYS, eh, jay.cmpbll??
NO PROBLEMO~!
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child,
Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey
Wizard will GIVE IT TO YOU BOTH WAYS, jay.cmpbll.
> all he understands is that, if you allow him to jump up on
> some occasions, he’ll try to jump up on you whenever he
> feels like it, because he doesn’t know any better.
You REALLY believe dogs are STUPID, eh, jay.cmpbll?
PERHAPS THIS would be a EXXXCELLENT time for you
to GET THE HEEL HOWETA my forums, jay.cmpbll??
> Stopping the jumping
Ahhhh, you got some ADVICE, jay.cmpbll??
> Most trainers agree that the most effective way for you to
> weed out unwanted behaviors (like jumping) in your dog
> is also the easiest: all you have to do is simply ignore him
> whenever he jumps up.
That's INSANE and ABSURD, jay.cmpbll. ANY behavior
that's IGNORED REPRESSED or AVOIDED will only GET
WORSE or CHANGE to other, seemingly non related behaviors
as anXXXIHOWESNESS RELIEF MECHANISMS or TRAINsfer
behaviors <{}: ~ ( >
> The idea is to give him the cold shoulder: withdraw all
> attention, even negative attention (so no yelling, shoving,
> or corrections).
That so?
You mean IGNORE your doggy's BONDING behavior, jay.cmpbll?
> Here’s how to implement this training technique:
Oh GOODY~!
> whenever your dog jumps up on you, turn your back straight away.
You mean: "TURN YOUR BACK STRAIGHT AWAY"
and "withdraw all attention, even negative attention (so
no yelling, shoving, or corrections)." AT THE SAME TIME?
That'd be quite a ACHIEVEMENT, wouldn't it, jay.cmpbll??
> Since dogs understand body language a lot more
> clearly than they do the spoken word,
Sez *you*, jay.cmpbll??
> you’re going to be using your posture to convey the message
> that such behavior isn’t acceptable here: fold your arms, turn
> your back, turn your face away from him and avert your eyes. ‘
ALL THAT, while you: "withdraw all attention, even negative
attention (so no yelling, shoving, or corrections).", jay.cmpbll?
Don't you think the dog might THINK you're "using your
posture to convey the message that such behavior isn’t
acceptable here: fold your arms, turn your back, turn your
face away from him and avert your eyes‘ JUST FOR HIM?
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> This is where a lot of people make a mistake:
Naaaah. "Where a lot of people make a MISTAKE" is postin
their LIES INSANITY ABUSE and SPAM here and findin
themselves gettin IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED an DISCREDITED
as pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin cowards
and OBEDIENCE TRAININ SCAM ARTISTS like yourself <{}: ~ ) >
> they confuse ignoring the behavior with ignoring the dog.
INDEED?
> You’re not ignoring the behavior -
RIGHT~! You're REINFORCING it <{}'; ~ ) >
> i.e., you’re not carrying on with whatever you were
> doing as if the jumping wasn’t happening;
AND THAT REINFORCES the UNDESIRABLE behavior.
> you’re ignoring your dog.
You mean for his BONDING behavior, jay.cmpbll??
> You’re still going to react; but your reaction
> is for you to actively ignore him.
Oh, I see~! You mean: "using your posture to convey the
message that such behavior isn’t acceptable here: fold your
arms, turn your back, turn your face away from him and
avert your eyes‘ JUST FOR HIM?
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> The cold shoulder is a really effective way of communicating
> your displeasure to a dog – he’ll catch on very quickly.
Oh? You mean YOU DIDN'T MEAN a EXXXPERT dog
trainer like yourself an cesar millan or adam katz "need to
make a prolonged effort to be consistent in how you choose
to deal with this problem" <{}: ~ ( >
You STILL want it BOTH WAYS, jay.cmpbll??
> Without the encouragement of your attention and your
> reactions to his behavior, he’ll calm down very quickly indeed.
Oh? Oh, you mean you was WRONG when you sez:
"need to make a prolonged effort to be consistent in
how you choose to deal with this problem" <{}: ~ ( >
> When to praise
You mean PRAISE IN ADVANCE, jay.cmpbll?
> When all four paws are on the ground, then –
> and only then – you can praise the heck out of him!
That's ABSURD, jay.cmpbll. By the time the dog's feet
is on the grHOWEND he's ready to JUMP AGAIN.
> Don’t be confused by the proximity of the positive reinforcement
> to the negative – dogs have a very short “training memory”,
Seems DOGS have a better memory than PROFESSIONAL DOG TRAINERS, wouldn't you
agree, jay.cmpbll, at least accordin to
your own written words: "need to make a prolonged effort to be
consistent in how you choose to deal with this problem" <{}: ~ ( >
> and are only capable of associating a reaction from you
> with whatever behavior itis they’re exhibiting at the time
> of that reaction.
That's ABSURD, jay.cmpbll <{}: ~ ( >
> So, it’s perfectly OK for you to react with wild enthusiasm
> the very second that his paws touch the ground, even if you
> were cold-shouldering him the split-second before.
You mean INSTEAD of PRAISING his BONDING
BEHAVIOR IN ADVANCE an then IT WON'T NEED
to JUMP on his professional obedience trainer, jay.cmpbll?
>Recommended Reading: http://cateaters.blogspot.com/
> For more information on understanding and solving canine
> behavioral problems, you’d probably be interested in checking
> out my blog.
I just took a look at your blog, jay.cmpbll. It's PATHETIC.
The next time you post to my forums we'll discuss poop eatin <{}: ~ ) >
> http://cateaters.blogspot.com/ I hope that my blog brings an
> understanding between you and you best friend and creates
> a healthier more enjoyable lifestyle.
That's a load of CRAP, jay.cmpbll.
Here's a EXXXCERPT from your blog:
COPROPHAGIA:
"Clearly, theories abound on the subject. Unfortunately, most
of them lack merit: the simple truth is that, although we can
guess as much as we like as to the reasons that our dogs
willingly and enthusiastically ingest poop pretty much
whenever the opportunity presents itself, nobody knows
with any degree of certainty as to why they do it.
Although it’s nearly impossible to “cure” a dog with a
taste for poop of this socially unacceptable habit, here
is a short list of tips for coping with the behavior and
minimizing it as much as possible"
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
THAT'S INSANE, jay.cmpbll.
Here's FIVE cases of COPROPHAGIA
CURED NEARLY INSTANTLY simply by DOIN EVERYTHING
EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE you pathetic
miserable stinkin lyin animal murderin MENTAL CASES PREFER.
LIKE THIS:
From: lolajo...@webtv.net (lolajo...@webtv.net)
Subject: Re: My greyhound becoming bully of dogpark,help?
Date: 2004-01-07 01:15:04 PST
What is wrong with "The Puppy Wizard"?
I know his posts are a little wacky but his sound
distraction technique has worked very well for me.
After using traditional training with mixed results,
I was able to stop my dog from jumping up, eating
poop, begging from the table and excessive barking
using his methods.
Lolajoker.
--------------
AND LIKE THIS:
Subject: to Jerry Howe
From: MArtog
Date: Wed, Jan 17 2001 12:51 pm
Email: MArtog <mar...@my-deja.com>
Just wanted to say thanks. The method you told me
to stop my dog from eating my other Labs sh-t in
the backyard has worked well. She has also improved
greatly when off leash out in the woods.
She still sniffs (ofcourse), but I rarely need to stop
her from anything else. I've always been diligent about
watching her, and cleaning up the yard, but ya just
can't be there every second. And she is quick!
So, thanks again for the advice.
I feel more confident now when I turn my back.
And to all you folks going yea, sure, right.
THIS IS NOT A TROLL POST.
HE gave me advice. It worked. Plain and simple.
Nothing more, nothing less.
So Jerry, allthough I don't lurk here, I'm sure
you're still putting up with DogButt and his ilk.
So good keep up the good work!
Of course DogButt will read this, even thoe it doesn't
have his name on it. Cause he thinks he owns the group.
So to you DogButt.........Well,,,,never mind.
You're already a loser. I don't need to tell you that.
Please feel free to correct my spelling/grammer, etc.
Yes, goodbye, good riddance, blah blah blah.
Later.....
MArtog
----------------------------
AND LIKE THIS:
From: Paul B (NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz)
Subject: Re: Dog eats poo!
Date: 2000-12-05 00:40:48 PST
I used sound distraction to stop my 2 dogs eating cow poo
during walkies. I posted here a while ago explaining how I
managed to control them from eating it but there were a lot
of sceptics. If your interested I'll be glad to tell you
what worked for me, just let me know and I'll post a thread
on this NG.
Paul
-----------------
AND LIKE THIS:
From: Paul B
Date: Sat, Oct 21 2000 2:18 am
Email: "Paul B" <NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz>
The sound distraction and praise method he uses is VERY effective,
I use those techniques on my dogs and the results are great. From
teaching a dog to recall to preventing unwanted behaviours (shit
eating, eating the cats food, growling when taking a bone from a
dog, jumping up, even escaping from the property, any behaviour).
To say sound distraction and praise methods don't work is pure
ignorance.
I can understand you not liking Jerry and being pissed off with
the posts he submits but please keep things in context and don't
slam a technique just because you can't stand the person suggesting
using it.
Paul.
------------
AND LIKE THIS:
From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com)
Subject: House training and such...
Date: 2003-10-08 16:18:56 PST
I've been having a problem with my dog, Axel,
relieving himself in the house while I'm away
from home.
I've used TPW method's, and yesterday I was out
for 12 hours, and Axel didn't have one single "accident".
Today, I had hoped that the results would be just as
good - and they were (I was out for 11 hours).
The problem began when, as a puppy, Axel would
relieve himself in the house and I would point
at the mess and tell him "NO" or "Bad Dog".
That made him afraid to relieve himself in the
house or infront of me.
After I got TPW's training manual, I corrected my
mishandling of these instances.
When I came home to an "accident", I would simply
drop a can near the area and ask Axel "What's that?"
Then I would clean it up - with out showing him I was
the least bit upset about the mess, and when he looked
at the spot I would tell him "Good boy, you're a good dog".
This has been an ongoing problem, and thanks to the
Puppy Wizard, we've finally got it taken care of...
Also, Axel LOVES the cat's litter box...He enjoys the
"snacks" he can find in there...I followed TPW's methods
by alternating sounds and praising him while or before
he sticks his nose in it, and today, he's been going into
the room with the cat box and barking. That's because
he's thinking about getting into the box, but he knows he
shouldn't.
Thank you, Jerry, for all you help.
You've been a blessing to all of us.
AIMEE
-----------------------
AND LIKE THIS:
From: Paul
Date: Wed, Dec 6 2000 12:00 am
Email: "Paul B" <NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz>
I'm not exactly sure why Jerry is saying to ignore me, it's his
advice that I found was the most successful. During walks in a
particular park the dogs would come across fresh cow pats and
munch away happily.
To stop this I'd set them up, I'd find a nice fresh cow turd and
stand next to it, when the dogs came over and saw it they would
start to munch, at the onset of this I'd chuck a throw chain near
the dog to distract it and praise straight away, the reason for
the praise is the dog stops eating as soon as it hears the
distraction so I'm praising that behaviour, the not eating.
I'd set them up again and repeat, but make the sound come from
a different direction, maybe the first time chuck the chain to
the right of the dog, the next time to the left, then behind etc,
it's the randomness that is effective and always sincerely praise
immediately.
Now when I walk through the park they leave the turds alone,
they aren't interested in them anymore due to the distraction
training. Don't let the dog know that you made the sound, the
sound just "occurs" this is important as it removes "you" out
of the problem.
Paul
--------------------
AND LIKE THIS:
Subject: Sweet Coprophagia
From: Lynn
Date: Wed, Sep 18 2002 10:01 pm
Email: roudyre...@yahoo.com (Lynn)
I hate to be in such agreement all the time, but am excited
about Coco the Rotti we have boarded here. Yes she made my
job easier (no poo to pick up) as at her home she eats poo
due to major anxiety and being punished with a stick for it.
She was living on it just about.
It was gross, and she is a beautiful dog.
I decided to change this. It has taken 6 days for HER to
get an appetite and I PICK up poo now. We have yard kennels
here, so it's hard to catch every dog doing everything. I
took all the pressure off her. SHE is using a dog house,
not cowering at her gate. SHE is breaking the habit of body
blocking me so I cannot leave her area. SHE is now playing
ike a normal doggie.
What did I do? Not much. Just ask as the other's are doing,
and be patient. Not making a big deal out of behavior she is
used to being punished for.
I can snap a finger now to distract her, and say "Coco
back good girl" I move into Hot and Cold on a bad day.
The owner just got done putting up a security door due
to her taking out the old one. The dog has quit blocking
me from getting in my door when out for play. My job is
getting easier, it's a pain to be rushed by a pack of
dogs all trying to come in.
Call the dogs puppets, they don't care!
Lynn
--------------------------
AND LIKE THIS:
From: MArtog
Date: Thurs, Jan 18 2001 7:51 am
Email: MArtog <mar...@my-deja.com>
In article <3A65FE5F.70D8D...@Rosenblatt.com>,
Jos...@Rosenblatt.com wrote:
> Ummm OK
> and if you didn't want Dog'butt' or anyone else to
> raad it.. why didn't you just email Jerry your thanks?
> I smell a rat....
> Bye Bye
Last reply/post from me just to explain to Joshua.
Then I'm outta here(yippee).
No I was not trying to TROLL. I wanted to post a
thank you to Jerry. That's it. Never said I didn't
want anyone else to read it. I did say that I knew
DogButt would read it even thoe it wasn't for him.
He thinks everything in here is his business.
So he had to post some childish response because he
can't help it. He is sooo predictable. He will read
this too and again post a childish response. If he
doesn't, it will show a strength of will that I don't
believe he has.
Not trying to be a rat or anything else. I clearly said
what I wanted to say about Jerry's help with my dog problem.
It is sad that this group is still so antagonistic all the time.
There is a lot of knowledge here, but it is rarely
disseminated in a kindly manner. Most newbies get
ran off in fairly short order, and go over to r.p.d.breeds
where people are much freindlier. Seems like most
posters in here have been around each other too long.
Some sort of internet cabin fever or something (IMHO).
Anyway, I won't be reading your's or DogButt's reply. So feel
free to go at each other's throats as usual,flame me and my
post, whatever.
Again, thanks Jerry and all of you have a nice day......
well except you DogButt!
Maybe Jerry can help you stop eating sh-t!
BYE!
------------------------------
SEE? SEE?? SEE??? SEE???? SEE?????
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
unsurrea...@yahoo.com
Well we had a good time hunting near River Ranch even though you were
too much of a weakling to show up.
I understand you are a frightened little feeble old fart, so no
worries. It's easier to bully people on the internet for you - so
keep doing it.
And here I was hoping to meet my maker. You disappoint me. Maybe
next time you'll get the courage to show up and shake my hand? It's
not a long drive. I'll drive up again when you want. Just let me
know the date and time, ok?
SteveB
> HOWEDY SteveB,
>
> You wouldn't happen to be Steve Boyer, the ONLY
> pathetic miserable stinkin rotten animal murderin
> mental case PROFESSIONAL dog trainer here who
> AIN'T been bagged for LYIN, would you?
No, that be someone else.
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
"SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote in message
news:v01hp5-...@news.infowest.com...
Oh, that's too bad. Not meanin to suggest I'm disappointed
meetin *you* but I was lookin forward to continuin talkin
dog trainin with perhaps the beast dog trainer in history.
We used to have some very in-depth discussions <{}: ~ ) >
Would you care to share your method to break dogs of jumpin?
I'm eager to share mine with you, SteveB. I teach folks HOWE to
use effective, scientific, Pavlovian and Ericksonian CONditioning
to teach or EXXXTINGUISH ANY behavior NEARLY INSTANTLY
using PRAISE IN ADVANCE, BRIEF, VARIABLY ALTERNATING
NON PHYSICAL DISTRACTION INSTANTLY follHOWED by
PROLONGED, NON PHYSICAL PRAISE <{}: ~ ) >
Here's your own FREE COPY of The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES,
And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
Training Method Manual:
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard/777witsendmanual.htm
The actual INSTRUCTION begins on the third page "*777*
Wits' End Method", abHOWET 1/4 down the page starting
with "Here's ALL the INFORMATION you NEED" and my
phone # and instructions to CALL ANY TIME.
There you will find ALL the FREE information you need
to pupperly handle raise and train your pets and family.
Just follow the instructions PRECISELY and ASK me if
you need any additional FREE HEELP <{}': ~ ) >
You'll likeWIZE find ETHICAL nutrition and heelth
care practices taught on the heelth page *(last link
on the left side) of my website <{}'; ~ ) >
HOWEDY SteveB,
You wouldn't happen to be Steve Boyer, the ONLY
pathetic miserable stinkin rotten animal murderin
mental case PROFESSIONAL dog trainer here who
AIN'T been bagged for LYIN, would you?
"SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote in message
Paul E. Schoen
"SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote in message
news:02hbp5-...@news.infowest.com...
>
> guess he doesn't like me." Funny, at the time, I'm usually bent over
I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but I think you are saying that you can
break the dog of this behavior by just ignoring it, and rewarding a less
physical sort of greeting.
I read parts of your blog at http://cateaters.blogspot.com:80/, and some of
what you have to say is interesting. I've had quite an adventure with my
dog Muttley, rescuing him from euthanasia on three occasions, and learning
a lot about the strong bond that can form between man and "beast". I see
that your blog is titled "cateaters", and I'm fairly sure that Muttley
might have at least tried to eat my cat if he ever caught her, although I
was making some progress in socializing them until she sadly was hit by a
car and killed on the road in front of my house a couple years ago. Instead
of a blog, I put a story of the saga of me and Muttley on my website:
www.smart.net/~pstech/Muttley/MuttleyStory.htm. You can also see many
pictures of him in the Muttley directory.
He is still quite a handful, and sometimes hard to control, but he is a
sweet fellow and I have been able to train him enough to have decent
manners with people and other dogs. He used to jump up on me and other
people, but he has calmed down considerably. Yet he will still jump up on
my friend who originally rescued him. I think this is because she
encourages it and makes him excited. But eventually he settles down and
will sit or lie down nicely while I enjoy a meal or do whatever else I may
want to do. Sometimes he begs for a few morsels, or scratches my leg with a
paw to let me know he needs to go out or to alert me of something, but he
has become a wondeful pet and loyal companion.
Don't let the PW (JH) get you riled up. He will not acknowledge any other
method of training other than his own "methods", and they did not seem to
work as expected on my dog, so now he accuses me of yanking and choking my
dog on a prong collar to force him into obedience, while in reality he just
likes to pull when he wants to move faster than I do.
Good luck with the storms down there in FL. Do you have any photos of your
Dal/Lab mix?
Paul and Muttley
SteveB
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote in message
news:48c62c2c$0$31906$ecde...@news.coretel.net...
I break a dog by timing a knee to the chest or a shin to the chest at the
moment he jumps up on me. Usually, it just startles the dog, and causes him
to bounce back a bit. At the same time, I say a sharp "NO". I will admit
that at times, I have thrown a dog right over on a 3/4 flip with them
landing on their backs. These are the dogs that it usually only takes once
to break. I immediately bend at the knees and squat down and praise and pet
the dog, teaching them that I will bend down to pet them, and they don't
have to jump up to get petted. After that, when I see them, I greet them
that way, and they will stay down until you pet them. Most dogs go away
after that, the doggie equivalent of scratch and sniff greeting.
Sorry I was ambiguous about it, but I know some do not agree with this
technique. To those people, all I can say is that Skippy ain't about to paw
my $100 slacks, thank you very much.
I have a pound rescue Rott/Lab that is the biggest pussycat in the world.
She must have been a guard dog or guide dog in another life because she is
totally trained, and won't even eat unless given permission. I believe she
could and would do some damage if danger actually occurred. We've lessened
her rigidity, but she still sticks to her training at times. She has never
once jumped up on me. Now, if I could only break her of the doggy handshake
.......... (nose to crotch and then the swift lifting of the nose). My
corgi is as hardheaded as any corgi, but he doesn't jump up either.
Steve
Melinda Shore
SteveB <noval...@ozone.com> wrote:
>I break a dog by timing a knee to the chest or a shin to the chest at the
>moment he jumps up on me.
Appropriate choice of verb!
>Usually, it just startles the dog, and causes him
>to bounce back a bit. At the same time, I say a sharp "NO". I will admit
>that at times, I have thrown a dog right over on a 3/4 flip with them
>landing on their backs.
You seem like a highly skilled dog trainer, too!
>Sorry I was ambiguous about it, but I know some do not agree with this
>technique. To those people, all I can say is that Skippy ain't about to paw
>my $100 slacks, thank you very much.
Awesome priorities!
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
Mary Healey
> I break a dog by timing a knee to the chest or a shin to the chest at
> the moment he jumps up on me.
Do that to my dog and you might be looking for your genitals in a high
asynchronous orbit. (FWIW, you won't find 'em.)
For that matter, take it upon yourself to correct my dog without my prior
approval, and it's highly likely that you won't live long enough to regret
it. My dogs are gentle, sweet, harmless critters. I am not.
> Sorry I was ambiguous about it, but I know some do not agree with this
> technique. To those people, all I can say is that Skippy ain't about
> to paw my $100 slacks, thank you very much.
Cluelessly helpful folk like you are why I've learned to be a mite
protective of my dogs' welfare.
--
Mary H. and the restored Ames National Zoo:
The Right Reverand Sir Edgar "Lucky" Pan-Waffles;
U-CD ANZ Babylon Ranger, CD, RA; ANZ Pas de Duke; and rotund Rhia
(null)
>
> I break a dog by timing a knee to the chest or a shin to the chest at the
> moment he jumps up on me.
Eeesh. How.... 1950s.
Dianne
Kathleen
> I break a dog by timing a knee to the chest or a shin to the chest at the
> moment he jumps up on me. Usually, it just startles the dog, and causes him
> to bounce back a bit. At the same time, I say a sharp "NO". I will admit
> that at times, I have thrown a dog right over on a 3/4 flip with them
> landing on their backs. These are the dogs that it usually only takes once
> to break. I immediately bend at the knees and squat down
That's good. If you kneed or shinned or otherwise physically
disciplined my dogs without my prior consent, that would put your head
in the proper position to receive the appropriate correction - a boot to
the cranium.
The entire matter, however, is merely academic. My dogs are properly
trained and I keep them well out of the way of clueless asswipes.
Melinda Shore
Kathleen <khhfmde...@charter.net> wrote:
>The entire matter, however, is merely academic. My dogs are properly
>trained and I keep them well out of the way of clueless asswipes.
I would venture that very few people here have dogs who jump
up on people, and would further venture that of the people
with dogs who don't, a tiny minority (if any) kicked or
threw their dogs around to train them.
Suja
"Kathleen" <khhfmde...@charter.net> wrote in message:
> That's good. If you kneed or shinned or otherwise physically
> disciplined my dogs without my prior consent, that would put your head
> in the proper position to receive the appropriate correction - a boot to
> the cranium.
I will admit that I have physically corrected someone else's dog. Said dog
(young standard poodle) jumped up and bit my hand, breaking skin and getting
my wrist bone. I grabbed him, sat him down, and had a heart to heart with
him. Then I walked over to the owner and told him that he needs to get
control of his dog; I wasn't going to make a huge deal out of it, but
someone else might.
The dog continues to jump and nip. The only "improvement" I can see is that
the owner tries to call the dog off when he heads in my direction, which he
blows off completely.
Suja
Kathleen
A deliberate bite that actually breaks the skin is in an entirely
different category than jumping up on somebody, even if they do happen
to be wearing $100 slacks.
The worst deliberate bite I ever witnessed was a golden, an intact male
with serious aggression issues, who attacked his handler during class
and bit her hand so hard that his fangs went entirely through her palm
and emerged through the back of her hand. He was euthanized.
The worst non-deliberate bite I've ever seen happened at a flyball
tournament. A terv returning to his handler in the runback area leaped
for his tug and caught the handler's wrist instead, tearing open a flap
of skin and muscle that fell forward and covered his hand to the
fingertips. The dog realized instantly what he'd done and crashed to
the ground, groveling. There was no correction. As the handler said,
"He didn't bite me, I cut my hand on his mouth".
Janet Boss
sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore) wrote:
>
> I would venture that very few people here have dogs who jump
> up on people,
My dogs will, depending on the actions of the people. Hand flailers
will get jumped on. You know, the ones who come in and say "don't jump,
don't jump", all the while flapping their hands and acting panicked? Or
the ones who go "hey dogs - yay, yippeaiyay" and get them wound up? Yup
- my youngsters are very easily influenced. I admit it freely. I don't
give them enough practice with idjits.
Walk in and ignore them or bend down and actually pet them (not a flick
of a pat and then flail) and they'll stay on all fours. Oh yeah -
they ALL (even Lucy) jump on DH EVERY day. Why? They get rewarded.
After ineffective "off, off, off, off" and then he walks into the next
room and gives them each a treat. Sobeit. They don't do it to me.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Melinda Shore
Janet Boss <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote:
>My dogs will, depending on the actions of the people.
Image uses me for balance when she's doing her mealtime
happy dance. Age has its privileges.
Janet Boss
sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore) wrote:
>
> Image uses me for balance when she's doing her mealtime
> happy dance. Age has its privileges.
You bet! Rudy and Marcie both sit politely and patiently while I
"make" their dinner. Lucy spins and squeals prior to her sit and wait
for the ok. I can see the need to balance at some point in the future.
I'll surely allow it.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Melinda Shore
Janet Boss <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote:
>You bet! Rudy and Marcie both sit politely and patiently while I
>"make" their dinner. Lucy spins and squeals prior to her sit and wait
>for the ok. I can see the need to balance at some point in the future.
>I'll surely allow it.
That's another nice thing about the cooler weather - she
seems to be having fewer neurological symptoms, including
seeming to have better control over her bowels. I have a
good friend with MS who said that hot, humid weather makes
her symptoms worse. I wonder if that's a general thing (hot
weather exacerbating neurological problems).
Anyway, the less Image poops in her sleep (or while doing
her mealtime happy dance) the happier we all are.
Janet Boss
sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore) wrote:
>
> Anyway, the less Image poops in her sleep (or while doing
> her mealtime happy dance) the happier we all are.
I imagine so! I remember when my sister's senior lab stayed with us for
an extended period of time. I would feed him right next to the back
door and the moment the last bite went in, I took his harness (he was an
LA victim) and moved him right out. It was like he had an empty tube
inside of him - food went in and poop pushed out.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
SteveB
"Melinda Shore" <sh...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:ga6263$qo0$1...@panix2.panix.com...
I own happy healthy reasonably behaved pets.
Steve
SteveB
"Mary Healey" <ame...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9B147A5473203a...@130.133.1.4...
> "SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote :
>> I break a dog by timing a knee to the chest or a shin to the chest at
>> the moment he jumps up on me.
>
> Do that to my dog and you might be looking for your genitals in a high
> asynchronous orbit. (FWIW, you won't find 'em.)
>
> For that matter, take it upon yourself to correct my dog without my prior
> approval, and it's highly likely that you won't live long enough to regret
> it. My dogs are gentle, sweet, harmless critters. I am not.
>
>> Sorry I was ambiguous about it, but I know some do not agree with this
>> technique. To those people, all I can say is that Skippy ain't about
>> to paw my $100 slacks, thank you very much.
>
> Cluelessly helpful folk like you are why I've learned to be a mite
> protective of my dogs' welfare.
>
> --
> Mary H.
Well, if you own dogs that behave badly, you just have to take what you get.
Steve
SteveB
"(null)" <dia...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:48c6b4c9$0$17164$742e...@news.sonic.net...
Bring me up to date. What's the current way? Negotiate? Take the dog to
self esteem classes?
I'm interested in hearing new things.
Steve
SteveB
"SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote
> Sorry I was ambiguous about it, but I know some do not agree with this
> technique.
To those who got it, good for you. For those who didn't, you're adults,
cope.
There are some things that dogs need to be corrected for. And punished.
You may do it your way, and I'll do it mine. And that includes bleeding
hearts who "won't allow others to discipline" their dogs. If your dog is
more important to you than my safety, then I guess we weren't really friends
in the first place, and thank you very much for informing me of my position
in your pecking order. Friendship and Christmas card list adjusted
accordingly.
Biting a child in my house is a death sentence, and will be carried out
within fifteen minutes.
I'm a conservative, not a liberal. Unruly pets get whatever they deserve.
Steve
(null)
>"(null)" <dia...@sonic.net> wrote in message
>news:48c6b4c9$0$17164$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>> SteveB <noval...@ozone.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I break a dog by timing a knee to the chest or a shin to the chest at the
>>> moment he jumps up on me.
>>
>> Eeesh. How.... 1950s.
>>
> self esteem classes?
Negative punishment. One of the four quadrants. Overall it's quite
a bit more effective than the positive punishment you espouse.
Dianne
Melinda Shore
Melinda Shore
SteveB <noval...@ozone.com> wrote:
>Biting a child in my house is a death sentence, and will be carried out
>within fifteen minutes.
That looks just like a penis, only smaller.
William Clodius
> On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:29:47 -0400, Janet Boss
> <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote:
>
> > Oh yeah -
> >they ALL (even Lucy) jump on DH EVERY day. Why? They get rewarded.
> >After ineffective "off, off, off, off" and then he walks into the next
> >room and gives them each a treat. Sobeit. They don't do it to me.
>
> my dogs both jump on my parents every freaking time they see them.
> same thing. they jump on my father and he gives them cookies. der.
> <snip>
You need to train your parents better.
SteveB
> In article <kbgjp5-...@news.infowest.com>,
> SteveB <noval...@ozone.com> wrote:
>>Biting a child in my house is a death sentence, and will be carried out
>>within fifteen minutes.
>
> That looks just like a penis, only smaller.
Puhleeze! Penis envy went out with Freud.
Robin Nuttall
>
> Bring me up to date. What's the current way? Negotiate? Take the dog to
> self esteem classes?
>
> I'm interested in hearing new things.
Though I know you're being sarcastic and probably don't care to learn,
there are indeed many more effective ways to deal with a jumping up dog
than a knee to the chest.
First let's look at why a knee to the chest often doesn't work. To do a
"proper" knee in the chest you have to be fast, you have to be accurate,
and unfortunately you can actually severely hurt a dog if you knee them
hard enough.
Second, the knee to the chest teaches the dog that getting near you can
hurt. It doesn't necessarily teach them not to jump up. It just teaches
them to fear you. There's no need to do this to get the dog to not jump
up. All you need to do is outthink the dog.
Dogs jump up because they are rewarded for jumping up with attention.
B.F. Skinner proved that behaviors that are ignored or which do not
result in the desired reward are not repeated. Dogs are always working
for the reward. Therefore, the most effective way to stop jumping up is
to stand up tall, cross your arms, look away, and actually turn your
back on the jumping dog. Totally withdraw your attention. Then when the
dog's four feet are on the ground, bend down, make a happy face and
cheerful voice and praise.
At first the dog is likely to immediately jump up again. At which time
you again stand tall, turn your back, fold your arms, and refuse to look
at the dog.
With just a few repeats, the dog will learn for himself, without you
hurting him, that jumping up is counter productive to what he wants and
keeping all four feet on the floor gets him what he wants. Problem
solved without pain and possible injury to the dog.
cshenk
> I would venture that very few people here have dogs who jump
> up on people, and would further venture that of the people
Actually, Cash still jumps on us just a little. Not bad and never on
strangers. More 'happy greeting' when one of us has been away a bit. Used
to be bad but we've got it down now to just a little bit with a paw on the
knee and trying to sniff about waist level. This is not a rushing 'jump' at
all, but a sort of block the door for a fast hug as one of us comes in if
we've been away for several hours.
He's also very smart about it. I have fairly serious back issues and he's
obviously aware of them so is very gentle with me (I get vigorously sniffed
in allowed locations but never jumped on).
> with dogs who don't, a tiny minority (if any) kicked or
> threw their dogs around to train them.
I can not imagine anyone doing that.
Handsome Jack Morrison
wrote:
[...]
>Biting a child in my house is a death sentence, and will be carried out
>within fifteen minutes.
Hypothetical situation: Your child is ill-mannered and enjoys teasing
and tormenting your dog. Your dog finally gets tired of the abuse and
nips your child in the hand, in the only way that a dog can really
communicate to its human tormentor to stop doing that.
So, because *you* can't properly teach your child how to behave around
your dog, you would just kill the dog, essentially for behaving like a
dog?
Hypothetical situation: Your dog is sleeping on the floor, and your
child accidentally steps on its paw, causing the dog a great amount of
pain, and because it was startled, blindly reacts by nipping your
child on the leg.
So, because your dog reacted to pain in the way that most dogs react
to pain, you would just kill the dog, essentially for behaving like a
dog?
I could go on and on, but I think you get my point.
If your answer to any of these hypothetical situations is yes, then
you are one sorry SOB.
And I say that as someone who generally doesn't have a problem with
teaching a dog not to jump up on people by using one's knee to push
the dog back, etc., provided it's done correctly, which is why I
didn't say anything before. Yes, there are ways to do that without
endangering, or hurting, the dog, and now I'm not so sure that you
would even care about that. In fact, you sound like the kind of guy
who might actually really *knee* his dog, and forcefully, simply
because you enjoy inflicting pain on your dog.
I hope I'm wrong about that.
>I'm a conservative, not a liberal.
Me too. And what that might have to do with treating a dog with
respect and kindness, I have no idea.
>Unruly pets get whatever they deserve.
Unruly pets only become unruly because they're unlucky enough to have
doofuses and/or assholes for owners.
Usually, whatever a dog is, or isn't, is the direct result of what its
owner is, or isn't.
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
Desperate Democratic attacks on Palin very revealing.
http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/27968074.html
The best man turned out to be a woman.
http://www.anncoulter.com/
Obama's Beautifully Packaged Lie.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/08/barack_obama_offers_a_beautifu.html
The Perfect Stranger.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/28/AR2008082802852.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns
Obama's Lost Annenberg Years Coming to Light.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/08/obamas_lost_annenberg_years_co.html
Obama's friends, Billy and Bernie. <spit>
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/08/19/what-is-university-of-illinois-hiding/
Censoring skepticism.
http://tigerhawk.blogspot.com/2008/08/censoring-skepticism.html
Rocky
> I would venture that very few people here have dogs who jump
> up on people,
Maybe is a jumper, and I'm the only one she doesn't jump on.
From a sit, she can lick the nose of a 6'6" friend. So, of
course, some encourage her to jump because it can be funny.
One of these days I'll figure out a way to differentiate
invited jumping from whatever she thinks makes it OK to jump.
> and would further venture that of the people
> with dogs who don't, a tiny minority (if any) kicked or
> threw their dogs around to train them.
My conjecture is that that works as well as other methods, but
with some scary side-effects.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
cshenk
> Dogs jump up because they are rewarded for jumping up with attention.
(snip)
> With just a few repeats, the dog will learn for himself, without you
> hurting him, that jumping up is counter productive to what he wants and
> keeping all four feet on the floor gets him what he wants. Problem solved
> without pain and possible injury to the dog.
Interesting! Thanks!
I think half my training seems to be sub-concious as I'm often not really
aware of doing it. Sometimes I catch things as Charlotte (14yo daughter)
does them and realize she's accidently reinforcing a behavior we do not
want, so I warn her and she shifts.
I have one remaining 'issue' which is that Cash is not well leash trained
though he's much better than he was at the start. I dont expect, nor
particularily care if he 'heels' well but I do want him to pull less. He's
a fairly significantly sized 50 lb fellow (now at full weight at last and
stable for past 3 months at this, vet says 'perfect' and keep him at this).
I even know what the problem is to an extent, but have not been able to work
it out yet.
Don 'controls' him with command voice but when walking Cash in his harness,
finds more pulling 'acceptable' than I can handle. He pulls hard with Don
as Don tends to give in a bit and let Cash do what he wants within reason.
Don's version of 'within reason' is a bit more open than mine ;-) but it's
still fairly controlled and allows for only the grass edges along the
street.
Charlotte, he restrains his pulls as he can drag her around and knows it.
Charlotte rarely gets to hold his leash because if he really wants to run
off, she's not big enough to hold him. She also allows him a wider area in
folks yards and I've been working with her on that aspect of 'being a good
neighbor'. Her normal job is the pooper scouper.
With me, he restrains his pulls as compared to Don as he knows I will simply
not *allow* him to pull past what I can handle (bad back) and if he goes
over limit, walk ends. I am the most restrictive of us 3 and control what
he can sniff (not too strongly, I let him have fun too). With me, he sits
(tail wagging like a maniac) when strangers come up to see if he's pettable
(he is, extremely so). With Don and Charlotte, he stands and strains
forward to strangers with waggy tail.
It's funny really. I can see it right there and so can the rest of you.
Current status is when we go to the vets, I have to walk Cash. Although not
perfectly behaved with me, the others are worse at it in that exciting
environment.
Once Cash gets over his neutering, I will ask the vet if we can try a
training class again. Last time, we were told to hold off due to heart
problems (got too excited, drats! I was all signed up and everything).
Rocky
rec.pets.dogs.health:
[followups to rpd.behavior]
> There are some things that dogs need to be corrected for.
> And punished.
Please explain how you interpret the difference between
correction and punishment.
For additional points, provide personal examples which
differentiate your application of positive and negative
punishment as it applies to deceasing an unwanted behaviour.
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
"SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote in message
news:uufjp5-...@news.infowest.com...
>
> "(null)" <dia...@sonic.net> wrote in message
> news:48c6b4c9$0$17164$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>> SteveB <noval...@ozone.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I break a dog by timing a knee to the chest or a shin
>>> to the chest at the moment he jumps up on me.
>>
>> Eeesh. How.... 1950s.
diannes means 'HOWE' <{}': ~ ) >
HOWEver, diannes loses 50 points for SPELLIN <{}: ~ ( >
>> Dianne
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> Bring me up to date.
Here's your own FREE COPY of The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES,
And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
Training Method Manual:
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard/777witsendmanual.htm
The actual INSTRUCTION begins on the third page "*777*
Wits' End Method", abHOWET 1/4 down the page starting
with "Here's ALL the INFORMATION you NEED" and my
phone # and instructions to CALL ANY TIME.
> What's the current way?
Here's a other pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
anonymHOWES coward, not so handsome, not so
gentle, not so manly, not so happy jackass, not even
morrison aka dogman a.k.a. BIG DADDY, a.k.a.
tommy sorenson:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use a little
"knee action," that is, as the dog goes charging by
you, just give the dog a little bop with your knee
and shin.
Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
----------------
> Negotiate?
O.K. I can't lessen the price from FREE, HOWEver
I'm willin to THROWE IN ***DOUBLE UNLIMITED
FREE ASSISTANCE*** <{}' ~ ) >
> Take the dog to self esteem classes?
***EXXXCELLENT~!***
You mean INSTEAD of THIS?:
Here again is pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
anonymHOWES coward, not so handsome, not so
gentle, not so manly, not so happy jackass, not even
morrison aka dogman a.k.a. BIG DADDY, a.k.a.
tommy sorenson:
"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens
At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating."
=====================
From: dog...@i1.net (Dogman)
Date: 1999/01/15
Subject: Re: Another mouthy lab
Get this book:
"The Art of Raising A Puppy," by the Monks of New Skete
If you can't find it locally, you can obtain it
through my Web site (see below).
You'll need it for more than just the usual puppy
"mouthing" problems, anyway.
And good luck with your Lab puppy!
--
Dogman
------------------------
And here's WON of his SUCCESS STORIES~!:
From: osi...@deltaville.net (Michael Erskine)
Date: 12 Aug 2004 10:09:05 -0700
Subject: My GSD bit me.
The question:
I have a four year old male GSD. He growls
at me sometimes. When he growls at me he
stares me in the face and lays his ears back.
The New Skete books say that the dog should not be
allowed to do that. They suggest shaking down the
dog by grabing the dog on the sides of his neck and
picking him off his front feet, then giving the dog the
same sort of treatment the dog would give another if
it were challenging him.
Namely getting in the dogs face and letting
the dog know you are the alpha dog.
Well, my dog bit me clearly he felt that I was not
convincing enough or he bit me out of fear.
Anyone got ideas on what to do with this dog that might
help him to decide that he wants to follow and that he
has nothing to fear from me?
----------------------
From: Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 17:21:14 GMT
Subject: Re: My GSD bit me.
You need to improve your acting skills. Get a werewolf
suit with blood-drenched fangs and claw gloves and THEN
go after your dog.
Knock the shit out of him and don't be afraid to crack
some ribs. Then yank the mask off and shout "SURPRISE!
IT'S ME!" I guarantee you and your dog will have a new
relationship based on mutual respect.
Keep in mind that the monks of New Skete
were pre-Lon-Chaney.
Charlie
-----------------------
Self esteem? There's some debate as to whether dogs
or any animals have an awareness of "self", let alone
"self esteem" altHOWE many folks hold odd interpertations
of normal natural innate reflexive instinctive behaviors.
Might be Freudian, eh?
Sounds Pavlovian to me~!
HOWEver, that AIN'T EXXXACTLY HOWE COME PRAISE
IN ADVANCE, BRIEF, VARIABLY ALTERNATING NON
PHYSICAL DISTRACTION INSTANTLY follHOWED by
PROLONGED, NON PHYSICAL PRAISE WORKS <{}: ~ ) >
"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.
Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At UofOH,
That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily And
Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving Care Is At The
Root Of The Scientific Management Of Doggies.
"All animals learn best through play," Lorenz.
B.F. Skinner: Re-evaluation of Punishment:
Punishment, unfortunately traditionally overused,
actually has been proven not effective at long-
term behavioral change, and creatures will find
other ways of getting what it wants. In "Freedom
and the control of men" American Scholar, Winter
1955-56, 25, 47-65. 1956 he states:
If we no longer resort to torture in what we call
the civilized world, we nevertheless still make
extensive use of punitive techniques in both
domestic and foreign relations. And apparently for
good reasons. Nature if not God has created man
in such a way that he can be controlled punitively.
People quickly become skillful punishers (if not,
thereby, skillful controllers), whereas alternative
positive measures are not easily learned.
The need for punishment seems to have the support
of history, and alternative practices threaten the
cherished values of freedom and dignity.
Fear involved with punishment causes frustration:
with typical results loathing, hostility and apathy.
Skinner's teaching on the superiority of posittive
reinforcement's benefits for keeping desired behavior
have proved very valuable.
----------------------------
Author and professional dog trainer LeeCharlesKelley wrote:
Thanks, Jerry, that's a helpful bit from the guy
who started it all. This shows what we've been
saying: that teaching the dog to play fetch,
regardless of its usefulness in the eventual
search part of the training program, is a
powerful motivator and reinforcer.
Of course these idiots (pardon my being blunt)
don't see using food and clickers as being a
form of coercion. Maybe they've been hypnotized
by Karen Pryor, et al?
A. S. Neill, The Famous Founder of The Summerhill
School, Used To Cure Delinquent Children Way Back
In The 1950's By Paying Them For Every Time They
Wet The Bed Or Broke A Pane Of Glass And Their
Behaviour Would Stop, - As If By MAGICK!
The Embry Study:
"While some may find it strange that reprimands
might increase the chances of a child going into
the street, the literature on the experimental analysis
of behavior is replete with examples of how "attention
to inappropriate behavior" increases the chances of
more inappropriate behavior.
Thus, suggestions to parents that they talk to or reason
with their children about dashing into the street will
likely to have the opposite impact.
Reprimands do not punish unsafe behavior; they reward it."
Source:
"Reducing the Risk of Pedestrian Accidents to
Preschoolers by Parent Training and Symbolic
Modeling for Children: An Experimental Analysis
in the Natural Environment. Research Report
Number 2 of the Safe-Playing Project."
"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS
were moved to a delayed contingency the behavior and
learning immediately deteriorated.
Programs utilizing the "contingencies of reinforcement
model" proposed by Skinner (1963) are no more well
established in research than the various dynamic
therapists."
Research in four areas : 1) direct evaluation of
programmed systems for learning; 2) reinforcement;
3) cognitive dissonance; and 4) motivation, MOST
SURELY DEMOLISH the claims of operant programers."
"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966).
Some clinics have reported ELIMINATION of the
need for child THERAPY through changing the
clinical emphasis from clinical to parental
HANDLING of the child (Szrynski 1965).
A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."
From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
To: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 4:40 AM
Subject: Fw: Counter Cruising must stop
> From: "diannes" <dian...@bolt.sonic.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Counter Cruising must stop
> > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > I wrote:
> > > > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > On another note: I understand why someone
> > > > > proclaiming a method that works on all dogs,
> > > > > all the time, would send up "red flag" to you
> > > > > and others, but the fact remains, if a technique
> > > > > *doesn't* work 100% of the time, with all dogs,
> > > > > then there must be a flaw in the philosophy
> > > > > underlying that technique.
>
> > > > Ditto for dog training. No failure nor flaw of method
> > > > is involved - that's just acceptance of reality.
>
> > > First of all, I didn't say that there was a flaw in the
> > > method, though anyone is welcome to make that
> > > leap.
>
> > > I said there was a flaw in the underlying philosophy
> > > and its model of learning.
>
> > Correction accepted. I think that perhaps we are using
> > terminology differently here. Here is my use of the terms:
Jerry, I don't know where you find these folk who can't read.
> In order to use negative reinforcement, one must
> typically administer the aversive stimulus in order
> to be able to terminate it.
This is not negative reinforcement. Negative means no.
Positive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
reward emitted immediately by trainer;
Negative reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
no response by trainer;
Aversive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
aversive stimuli emitted immediately by trainer;
The term "reinforcement is used only tentatively with
"aversion" because aversive stimuli (aka punishment)
typically derange learning and are not followed by clean
learning curves equivalent to those which follow reward
or positive reinforcement;
Escape conditioning = dog has an aversive stimulus
applied without any dog related reason and when
behavior is emitted aversive stim is immediately turned off .
There is some indication that Escape Conditioning
works in a manner closely approximating reward;
but, ear pinch? -- too aversive.
I remind you that you should beat them over the head
with "The Misbehavior of Organisms" by Breland and
Breland, published in B.F. Skinner's CUMULATIVE
RECORD. Ignored by most profs of psychology, but
the distillation of his work.
NO PUNISHMENT.
Must pay attention to who is the animal?
His evolution, his development, and his personal history -
cannot train without respect for who is the dog? So says
the BIG TIME operant conditioning guru - and you can also
refer back to MARY COVER JONES (mother of scientific
systematic psychology), no loving, no learning.
I suppose I could wire up a dog so that his brain was
badly interrupted and the loving method of puppy training
might not work well - but it would still work better than
the methods used by dominatrix and their ilk.
Lovingly applied ethological techniques like the one
espoused by the Wizard of ALL puppies work for all
dogs, for that matter for all mammals higher than cat.
Indeed, they will work for cats if trainer is warmly competent.
You can see this in Key West on any sunny day.
Housecats performing quite happily.
Fondly, Dr. Von
> I'm interested in hearing new things.
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice
Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.
I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.
I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:
whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.
The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).
You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.
As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine you may find my resume
in Who's Who in Science and Technology I have been listed
in Who's Who in the S & SE USA since 1982, and in the big
books, Who's Who in the USA, WW in the World, WW in
Medicine etc, and WW in Science and Technology, since that date.
These are the Marquis Publications, the "real" WW, and
you can't get yourself into them.
--------------------
From: "Dr. Von" <drv...@mindspring.com>
Date: 12 Sep 2005 10:52:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Clicker Training for Dogs Newsgroups?
Jen wrote:
> I would love to know of one as well. If there was
> enough people interested maybe we could start one.
> I've just started clicker training my dog and have
> been doing the positive training for a while now.
> I think it's great!!
>
> Jen
> "artbylucy" <artbyl...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:OMudnRS23OLEc7ze...@comcast.com...
> > Hello,
> > Does anyone know of a dedicated newsgroup for
> > positive-only dog training, in particular clicker
> > training?
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Lucy
Jen, your request for a positive only dog training list,
needs the same answer as I give the folk who ask why I
don't have a list for what I do with biofeedback.
The method is so simple, and if you adopt it and relate
to your dog in such a positive manner you won't have any
more problems and there is no need for any more technique.
With Puppies we Ph.D. psychologists have been outflanked
by the entirely practical and effective methods described
in his FREE manual. Free download, nothing sold, no
mailing list, no distribution of your name. Free support if
needed.
With ADHD kids I provide similar information at
www.drbiofeedback.com and there is no need for
a list dealing with problems with kids. Apply
as directed and have happy healthy doggies or
kiddies.
Not difficult.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
P.S. jerk and choke, spanking, shocking, scruff shake,
choke, chin chucks, all those negatives, denial of
affection etc. are harmful, dranging, obscenities.
You might want to consider Pavlov's typology to
understand "hard and soft dogs" - essentially he
taught that there are outward and inward responding
organisms in weak and strong nervous systems and if
you grasp this firmly you'll shape your training
methods effectively.
Punishment ALWAYS deranges behavior, and so is
recommended and given only by deranged humans.
Of course, it doesn't matter if we are talking
dogs, cats, people, sheep, even husbands. Dr. Von
---------------------
Dr. Von wrote:
Unconditional Acceptance, Love, Approval are a positive
reinforcement of good feelings and reinforce groupness.
What your critics do not realize is that all free dogs live
in packs all heaped up together, touching each other closely,
or sniffing and barking happily or working tracking and
chasing down prey.
All loving groups are continually rewarding each
other with "good brother/sister" sounds and smells.
I can send you a bibliography of hundreds, nay,
thousands of papers which prove that scaring,
hurting, startling, demeaning, punishing animals
deranges behavior.
NEGATIVE means NO! Freshmen frequently make
the error that negative reinforcement is aversive
reinforcement, no, its NO reinforcement.
Aversive reinforcement includes choking, kicking,
biting, shocking, abrading, alpha rolling and other
sadistic behaviors. AVERSIVE reinforcement always
deranges behavior.
Neither paramecia nor dogs ever forget.
Dr. Von
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
From: TooCool (larrym...@hotmail.com)
The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method
I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
years. I have a huge library that covers every system
of training.
The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
method yet discovered.
It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
a logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically
consistent manner.
Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
understand the basis of his system and please follow
his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
how their solution should be approached.
One should not pick and choose from among his methods
based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is
not a bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system
for not only training a dog but for raising a loving companion.
When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.
You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
lie quietly and let me clip his nails).
Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
train you dog to respond to your commands.
What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
carry him in response to my recall command-and he
comes running every time I call no matter where we are
or what he is doing.
At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
his Family Pack Leadership exercises.
Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
you.
Is Jerry a nut?
It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based
upon their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply when
he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding or
hurting dogs.
More than that, he knows that force is not effective
and that it will certainly lead to behavior problems;
sometime problems so severe that people put their
dogs down because of those problems.
I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
at our wits' end, haven't we?
Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
to praise.
Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
along with their anxiety.
Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
success.
Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.
If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet
little Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little
gremlin (anyone see The Gremlins?).
--Larry
===============
> Steve
ONLY PARENTS FEAR and HATE The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child,
Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard more than the professional
dog trainer and university trained behaviorists HE
has IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED:
HERE'S HOWE COME:
In the followin SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH STUDY, you may
substitute pronged spiked pinch or slip choke collars for shock
and add PUNISHMENT, SCOLDING, CRATING, and
witholding rewards, attention, and affection:
Psychological Effects
At issue is the question, --Do electronic training
devices elicit psychological responses?
"This section cites several research studies in which the
psychological impact of the use of electronic training devices
was analyzed. It is difficult, at best, for anyone to determine
the full psychological effect of these devices or training methods
until we can agree on exactly what constitutes a stress signal in
a domestic dog. Not only do none of the researchers agree on
what it is, but it varies from dog to dog.
It is even more difficult for humans to determine the full effect
of shock on a dog (or any animal) due to the animal's hard-wired
need to hide pain in order to survive in the wild.
Training dogs with the help of the shock collar: Short and long
term behavioral effects. (Schilder, M. & van der Borga, J. (2004).
Applied Animal Behavior Science, 85, 319-334).
The goal of this study was to determine the behavioral changes in
dogs during training using electronic training collars. Thirty-two
dogs were divided into two groups, each receiving both general
obedience and protection training.
One group was trained with shock collars and the other group
without shock collars. The dogs trained with the shock collars
displayed signs of stress: lowering of body posture, high-pitched
yelps, barks and squeals, avoidance, redirected aggression, and
tongue flicking.
It was also noted by the authors that, even during play and relaxed
walking, the group of dogs trained with shock collars continued to
show signs of stress while in the company of their handler.
The authors concluded that shock-collar training is stressful;
receiving shocks is a painful experience to dogs; and the shock
group of dogs evidently learned that the presence of their owner
(or his commands) announced the reception of shocks, even
outside of the normal training context.
They suggest that the welfare of these shocked dogs is at
stake, at least in the presence of their owners.
This study has come under considerable fire because the experience
of the handlers and dogs is not clear, and the level of shock is not
stated. With that said, it does suggest that dogs are stressed by the
experience of being shocked during training.
---------------------
Freeze Frame <{}: ~ ) >
From: canis55 <cani...@my-deja.com>
Date: 1999/09/28
Subject: Dear Marilyn Re. Ness
Dear Marilyn,
I just visited your updated site. The two Ness pages are great.
Freezing the video frames to reveal the emotional impact a
leash correction has on a dog was a wonderful idea.
Lee Kelley did something similar to a Brian Kilcommon video.
The difference is we were focusing on the emotional impact a
leash correction has on the trainer. When you do this to a training
video you can clearly see the tremendous emotional charge some
of these trainers are getting from hurting dogs.
It's a strange business, this dog training. I wonder what motivates
any of us to engage in it. I'm suspicious of anyone who says they
do it because they love dogs. I know a lot of people who claim to
love what dogs represent to them, and yet they don't become trainers.
I don't think this is because they love something else more.
I think there is a difference between loving what dogs represent
to us and loving what training them creates in us or even creates
in them for that matter.
It's a complicated process and perhaps many of us have lost sight
of what we're doing. I read books and articles that matter of factly
explain how to systematically inflict pain on dogs in an effort to
create a desire to perform tasks that I often see dogs performing of
their own accord. I know many of these behaviors can be shaped
and encouraged to the same degree of reliability without all the
violence and pain.
Where they can't (if that's the case), I wonder why we think
a dog should perform a task that is so repugnant to its nature,
that we must resort to violence and coercion to compel them
to participate.
Maybe I have far too much respect for dogs, but when I read
this stuff it sounds like slavery and involuntary servitude to me.
I can't see much difference between what we're doing to them
(for their own good) and what my country men did to the African
peoples for nearly half a century.
It's hard for me to accept that I'm surrounded by so much
madness, but I have to go with my heart on this one. Most
of what we demand from dogs--if not all of it--will be offered
willingly and enthusiastically if we only learn how to request
it in a manner they can comprehend.
If it turns out that I have to attack a dog to get it to do or to not do
something, then maybe the dog isn't supposed to do what I think it
should.
The whole thing's so complicated that I can't really express it. I
just know I don't like some of the stuff I'm seeing or reading about.
--
I trains'em as I sees'em.
----------------
Here's professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM NO! into
ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minutes
contemplation" dermer of the Department of ANAL-ytic
Behavior at UofWI, pryor:
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),
--Marshall
Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"
Subject changed: JUMPING / MOUTHING On PEOPLE (Ninnyboy)
26 From: Marshall Dermer -
Date: Tues, Aug 14 2001 8:15 pm
Email: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)
In article <2e501ccd.0108141341.7f18d...@posting.google.com>
mattburns...@yahoo.com (Matthew Burnside) writes:
Dear Matt:
Many have offered Jerry constructive advice but
Jerry has failed to profit from it.
My sincere advice is to filter out Jerry's posts.
--Marshall
PS: I have put "Ninnyboy" in the header for many of us filter
posts with this term. The term indicates that the post
is about Jerry.
I have read rpdb for about five years. Consequently, I urge
newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb
regulars from whom I have learned much. They include:
Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl, Diane Blackman,
jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy
Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth
Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore, Robin Nuttall, Denna Pace,
John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, Jane
Webb, and Terri Willis.
*(EVERY WON of them got VERY LONG POSTED CASE}
HISTORIES of INCURABLE MENTAL ILLNESS an HURTIN
INTIMIDATIN an MURDERIN INNOCENT DEFENSELESS
DUMB CRITTERS an LYIN abHOWET IT.)
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me. But if I am only for
myself, what am I?" _The Talmud_
Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis
Specialty/ Department of Psychology/University of
Wisconsin--Milwaukee/Milwaukee, WI 53201
der...@uwm.edu http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!
Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.
From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) -
Date: 1998/08/28
Subject: Re: Puppy growls and snaps
In article <6s6ea0$8c...@uwm.edu> der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu
(Marshall Dermer) writes: In article <35E60819.65178...@pilot.msu.edu>
>>tami sutherland <suthe...@pilot.msu.edu> writes:
>> However, there have been incidences where she has
>> growled and snapped at us...for instance, when we
>> were trying to dry her off after bathtime.
> When your three-month old pooch growls or snaps, IMMEDIATELY
> pick her up ONLY by the skin at the back of her neck, for 5
> sec, and loudly say, "NO!" Alternatively, say "NO!" and hold
> her mouth shut for say 15 sec.
>
> If she so snaps that you can't do the above then you
> will have to find another way to administer a prompt
> correction, for example, throwing a can filled with
> pennies, or a tug on the collar. --Marshall
"Oops! I would start by only holding her mouth
shut for say 5 sec.
At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
P.S. Contacting Dr. P:
Please note that due to the large number of
requests I receive, I can no longer give free,
personal advice on problems related to dog
training and behavior.
In order for me to give such advice we would
have to "talk" about the problem at length.
That is, I would need detailed information about
the dog, it's environment and routine, the problem,
and the situation in which the problem occurs.
Thus, this type of consultation takes time which
I cannot afford to give away for free.
If you wish such advice, please see the information
I have provided about my K9 Behavioral Consulting
practice. Another alternative to obtaining personal
advice is to participate in e-mail, chat room, &
newsgroup discussions.
P.P.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!
Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400
Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.
I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.
There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.
Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology
--------------------
Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:
"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.
From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
------------------
"The day may come when the rest of
the animal creation
may acquire those right
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.
The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham
"A Cheerful Heart Is Good Medicine, But
A Crushed Spirit Dries Up The Bones,"
Proverbs 17:22
Disciple Paulie Sez:
"No One Understands How Wits End Training
Really Works; They Assume It's All Nicey Nicey
And don't Realise It's A Very Disciplined Method
That Deals With Any Situation And The Foundation
Is Built On Trust And Understanding.
I've never forced my dogs to do anything,
I tell them they are good dogs and they
seem to follow me, onceI told them they
were bad dogs and they ran away from me,
now I only ever tell them they are good dogs
and they always are, always.
Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and say
"good dog" sincerely at the end of the request and
I bet you'll find your dog thinking then responding
everytime.
A Bit Of Respect Works Wonders,
The Same Rule Applies
To Every Aspect Of
The Relationship With Your Dog.
Obedience And Affection Are Not Related,
if They Were Everyone Would Have
Obedient Dogs.
I Have Found Giving Dogs "Payment" In Advance i.e.
"Sam sit goodboy" Makes The Dogs WANT TO RESPOND,
After All, All Dogs Want To Be "Good Dogs" And If
You Tell Them They Are Good Then They Feel An
Obligation To Obey Your Request.
Telling Sam He's A Good Dog AFTER He Sit's
Apart From Being Too Late Is Also A Gamble
Because If He Doesn't Sit Then There's No
Positive Interaction.
Paul
-------------------------
ANY QUESTIONS, People?
"Ye shall know the truth,
and the truth shall make you mad." -
~Aldous Huxley.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised
for the good of its victims,
may be the most oppressive.
Those who torment us for our own good
will torment us without end,
for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." -
- C.S. Lewis.
"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress
can be judged by the way
its animals are treated." ~ Mohandas
Gandhi -- Adapted with permission from his FREE
copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual. <}TPW ; ~ ) >
Force training JERRYIZES dogs...
and GETS THEM DEAD," -
- ThePuppyWizard <{}:* ~ ( >
All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls
their hearts and minds
will follow,"
John Wayne.
"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
"Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain!"
-Friedrich Schiller.
INDEEDY.
AND THAT'S HOWE COME THEY GOT ME NHOWE!
In Love And Light,
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours
The WORLD'S CRUELEST Trainer,
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
*M-A-J-E-S-T-I-C*
*G-R-A-N-D*
*M-A-S-T-E-R*
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Ferret, Goat, Monkey
SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ;~ ) >
HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >
Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092 (Call ANY TIME)
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard
E-mail:
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
@HotMail.Com
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
@HotMail.Com
TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard @HotMail.Com
MSN, AT&T Or AIM Messenger @:
TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard @HotMail.Com
ThePuppyWizard @BellSouth.Net
SteveB
"Robin Nuttall" <rob...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:nyGxk.335548$yE1.88973@attbi_s21...
Alas, there ARE reasonable people here. Thank you. I shall try this on new
problem pets.
Steve
SteveB
"Rocky" <3d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Fri9B14DB46D75C8au...@rocky-dog.com...
When I want to correct my dog, I try to show him that what he/she has done
displeases me. I can withdraw attention, not pet them, talk them in a low
voice, or just walk away. When I want to punish them, I do a Barack Obama
impression, which really makes them cringe.
Ah ...
Uh ......
What you ........
What you did ..........
What you did uh .........
Uh ........
Uh ..............
Well, no need to go on, I don't want to punish anyone here unnecessarily.
Positive and negative punishments cancel each other with no matter left over
for discussion.
HTH
Steve
(null)
>
> When I want to correct my dog, I try to show him that what he/she has done
> displeases me. I can withdraw attention,
Negative punishment.
> not pet them,
Negative punishment.
> talk them in a low voice,
Can't tell how you're using this without more information here.
> or just walk away.
Negative punishment.
> Positive and negative punishments cancel each other with no matter left over
> for discussion.
Um, no. Punishment (either positive or negative) by definition is
anything that decreases a behavior. Reinforcement (either positive
or negative) is anything that increases a behavior. (Those are the
four quadrants of which I spoke earlier, for what it's worth.)
So we've heard a little from you about how you train your dogs
to NOT do behaviors. What behaviors have you trained a dog to
do, and how did you train them?
Dianne
Paul E. Schoen
"Handsome Jack Morrison" <handsomeja...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ukdec41bl7tb8e24c...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 18:19:28 -0800, "SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas>
> wrote:
>
> [...]
>>Biting a child in my house is a death sentence, and will be carried out
>>within fifteen minutes.
>
> Hypothetical situation: Your child is ill-mannered and enjoys teasing
> and tormenting your dog. Your dog finally gets tired of the abuse and
> nips your child in the hand, in the only way that a dog can really
> communicate to its human tormentor to stop doing that.
>
> So, because *you* can't properly teach your child how to behave around
> your dog, you would just kill the dog, essentially for behaving like a
> dog?
>
> Hypothetical situation: Your dog is sleeping on the floor, and your
> child accidentally steps on its paw, causing the dog a great amount of
> pain, and because it was startled, blindly reacts by nipping your
> child on the leg.
>
> So, because your dog reacted to pain in the way that most dogs react
> to pain, you would just kill the dog, essentially for behaving like a
> dog?
>
> I could go on and on, but I think you get my point.
>
> If your answer to any of these hypothetical situations is yes, then
> you are one sorry SOB.
That reminds me of the time when Dave Letterman was bitten by a dog on his
show a few years ago. He does not seem to be a real "dog person", was
rather tentative in his attentions and petting, and the dog did not seem
too comfortable with Dave. I think he carelessly stepped on the dog's paw,
and he jumped up and nicked him in the chin with his teeth. It was very
quick and the dog and owner seemed apologetic. Dave was not badly hurt, but
he played it up to the hilt, humorously claiming a vicious attack by a wild
Dingo.
> And I say that as someone who generally doesn't have a problem with
> teaching a dog not to jump up on people by using one's knee to push
> the dog back, etc., provided it's done correctly, which is why I
> didn't say anything before. Yes, there are ways to do that without
> endangering, or hurting, the dog, and now I'm not so sure that you
> would even care about that. In fact, you sound like the kind of guy
> who might actually really *knee* his dog, and forcefully, simply
> because you enjoy inflicting pain on your dog.
>
> I hope I'm wrong about that.
>
>>I'm a conservative, not a liberal.
>
> Me too. And what that might have to do with treating a dog with
> respect and kindness, I have no idea.
>
>>Unruly pets get whatever they deserve.
>
> Unruly pets only become unruly because they're unlucky enough to have
> doofuses and/or assholes for owners.
>
> Usually, whatever a dog is, or isn't, is the direct result of what its
> owner is, or isn't.
I had no idea that Steve's method was a knee to the chest. Perhaps that
might be necessary in extreme situations, but it really seems like punching
someone's lights out for giving you a hug. When I first got Muttley, he
would often jump up on me, and I interpreted it as joyful bonding behavior,
which I somewhat encouraged. But it was not very welcome when he had been
outside with muddy paws. I don't remember doing anything specific to
curtail the behavior, but mostly I think I just put my hand in front of his
snout as he got ready to jump, and then I immediately got down to his level
and gave him some petting and attention. It also helped when I was able to
get him to sit fairly reliably, which earned him the attention and love he
craved.
I don't recall him jumping up on anyone for a long time, but when my friend
Helene comes by, she seems to excite him and expects him to jump up, so she
clenches her teeth in case he should bump her in the chin. That was an
issue in the early days, but not really so much anymore. He really has
become quite mellow, as I am, and sometimes I would like it if he were more
interactive. Most of the time I don't even know there is a dog in the house
with me, and he seems happy to just sleep most of the time. But he does
really enjoy going on his walks, and especially when I take him on the
trail where he can meet other people and dogs. And most people enjoy
meeting him and remark how well-behaved he is.
He slipped away from me for a short time last week and he took his own walk
along the other side of the stream, and ended up at my neighbor's house. He
has a little Papillon named "Bug", and also a cat, and I'm sure he was
anxious to check them out. After I had Muttley back on his leash, he and
Bug sniffed each other a bit, and then Muttley seemed to relax and feel
morte comfortable. My neighbor remarked that he seemed more friendly, and
no longer gave him "that look". Instead he just stretched out in the grass
while we talked, and Bug just poked around in the bushes. Now I will have
to be more careful with Muttley, as he seems to have enjoyed his freedom
and I can sense that he wants to do it again if I give him a chance.
Muttley is certainly treated with respect and kindness, and although he
really should be more obedient, he does not pose any real problems for me
in the house or in public, and that's good enough for me. But perhaps I
should start looking for a trainer who can show me some less forceful and
physical methods that might work to improve his leash pulling, and possibly
instill some recall.
Paul and Muttley
Melinda Shore
Rocky <3d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote:
>My conjecture is that that works as well as other methods, but
>with some scary side-effects.
Then it doesn't work "as well as," does it really? I gather
that this "Paul" has an extremely limited toolkit or lacks
the skill to do anything but throw his dog around.
Melinda Shore
Kathleen
> sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore) said in rec.pets.dogs.health:
>
>
>>I would venture that very few people here have dogs who jump
>>up on people,
>
>
> Maybe is a jumper, and I'm the only one she doesn't jump on.
> From a sit, she can lick the nose of a 6'6" friend. So, of
> course, some encourage her to jump because it can be funny.
>
> One of these days I'll figure out a way to differentiate
> invited jumping from whatever she thinks makes it OK to jump.
Scully's a jumper and my daughter put a name to it and taught her to do
it on command. She tells Scully, "Pup Up!" and pats her right hand over
her heart. Scully turns broadside to her and leaps straight up into
Elaine's arms. She actually looks like she's levitating because the
front and back ends go up simultaneously. She's only 30 pounds and is
so relaxed and graceful about it that it's like catching a pillow that's
been tossed at you.
It's funny how even people who hate to be jumped up on are anxious to
play this particular game with her.
Melinda Shore
elegy <el...@DOGPOOPshattering.org> wrote:
>at this point i'm trying to train my father to look on factcheck.org
>before forwarding me yet another wildly inaccurate political chain
>email. i'm not having too much success there either.
By contrast, the dogs jumping on him is No Problem.
Suja
"Robin Nuttall" <rob...@mchsi.com> wrote in message :
> With just a few repeats, the dog will learn for himself, without you
> hurting him, that jumping up is counter productive to what he wants and
> keeping all four feet on the floor gets him what he wants. Problem
> solved without pain and possible injury to the dog.
As a corollary to this, I've found that it is effective to take a huge step
backwards as the dog jumps on you, and then petting the dog as his feet hit
the floor. In the long run, it is far more effective to teach the dog what
it is you want him to do when greeting than what not to do. Teaching a dog
that you expect them to sit-stay or down-stay when they approach people, and
then wait for the people to pet you works quite well.
Pan was a jumper when we first got her. Not her fault, because her previous
owner encouraged the behavior. What works for someone 5'6" or 5'8" works
far less well with someone 5'1", so I had to teach her right quick that it
is not acceptable behavior before she poked my eyes out (standing on her
back legs, her front legs are about eye level for me). What I ended up
doing was to step back a little and grab her front legs. No other
interaction - we just stood there until it got uncomfortable enough for her
that she lowered herself into a sit, at which point, I let go, and gave her
the praise/pets she wants. Now, she sits and waits for pets. On the odd
occasion when it is all too exciting, she'll bounce, then sit and wait.
Suja
montana wildhack
> it is far more effective to teach the dog what
> it is you want him to do when greeting than what not to do.
From my perspective, this is true of any default behavior.
This also works really well with children!
SteveB
> In article <Fri9B14D922B1B71au...@rocky-dog.com>,
> Rocky <3d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote:
>>My conjecture is that that works as well as other methods, but
>>with some scary side-effects.
>
> Then it doesn't work "as well as," does it really? I gather
> that this "Paul" has an extremely limited toolkit or lacks
> the skill to do anything but throw his dog around.
> --
> Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
I'm sorry. Was I drunk or absent the day you were coronated and put in
charge?
Steve
SteveB
"alpha.bob©" <alpha.bob©@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:873fc4duea1gl1ftd...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 19:45:31 -0800, "SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>> HOWEDY SteveB,
>>>
>>> You wouldn't happen to be Steve Boyer, the ONLY
>>> pathetic miserable stinkin rotten animal murderin
>>> mental case PROFESSIONAL dog trainer here who
>>> AIN'T been bagged for LYIN, would you?
>>
>>No, that be someone else. But I would be one crossposting SOB.
>>
>
I just hit reply. I am not so anal or persnickety that I really care about
where it goes. And if someone before me has added groups, it wasn't me.
You're an adult. Cope. Learn to use all the keys on your keyboard. Like
the up, down, ignore, and delete.
HTH, but I doubt it.
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote in message
news:48c62c2c$0$31906$ecde...@news.coretel.net...
>
> "SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote in message
> news:02hbp5-...@news.infowest.com...
>> I've broken many a dog from jumping up on me. The owner asks me, "How
>> come he doesn't jump on you and he jumps on everyone else?"
EveryWON has gotta IMPRESS the puppy the same same,
otherWIZE the "METHOD" WON'T WORK <{}: ~ ( >
>> I dont' tell him that when the dog jumped, I did the appropriate thing
SteveB means he HURT the dog <{}: ~ ( >
>> and taught the dog myself, several with just one jump.
LIKE THIS:
Here's a other pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
anonymHOWES coward, not so handsome, not so
gentle, not so manly, not so happy jackass, not even
morrison aka dogman a.k.a. BIG DADDY, a.k.a.
tommy sorenson:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use a little
"knee action," that is, as the dog goes charging by
you, just give the dog a little bop with your knee
and shin.
Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
-----------------------
BINACA beth's "trainer" BROKE HER OWN DOG'S RIBS doin that.
>> I just say, "I guess he doesn't like me." Funny, at the time, I'm
>> usually bent over petting the tail wagging dog.
OtherWIZE IT'D jump on him again <{}: ~ ) >
> I'm not sure exactly what you mean,
LikeWIZE <{}: ~ ) >
THAT'S HOWE COME The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy,
Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES,
And Horsey Wizard was PREYIN SteveB would TALK
BUSINESS <{}: ~ ) >
> but I think you are saying that you can break the dog of this behavior by
> just ignoring it,
That's ABSURD. ANY behavior that's IGNORED,
REPRESSED or AVOIDED will only GET WORSE
or CHANGE to other, often worse, seemingly non
related behaviors as anXXXIHOWESNESS relief
mechanisms or TRAINsfer behaviors <{}: ~ ( >
> and rewarding a less physical sort of greeting.
That's ABSURD:
"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING
THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."
"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.
Author and professional dog trainer LeeCharlesKelley wrote:
Thanks, Jerry, that's a helpful bit from the guy
who started it all. This shows what we've been
saying: that teaching the dog to play fetch,
regardless of its usefulness in the eventual
search part of the training program, is a
powerful motivator and reinforcer.
Of course these idiots (pardon my being blunt)
don't see using food and clickers as being a
form of coercion. Maybe they've been hypnotized
by Karen Pryor, et al:
Freeze Frame <{}: ~ ) >
Dear Marilyn,
----------------
> I read parts of your blog at http://cateaters.blogspot.com:80/,
That was jay.cmpbll's blog, not SteveB's. But there's all
the same same, same effective scientific methods:
tommy wrote:
From: dog...@i1.net (Dogman) Date: 1997/11/11
Subject: Re: Koehler's Usefulness--A Concluding Assessment
This, from a yellow-bellied coward who has TOTALLY refused
to engage me in debate, preferring mudslinging, hyperbole, distortion,
lies, exaggeration, and to take Koehler completely out of context,
instead.
What lying hypocrites these hand-wringers are!
The most consistent argument among Koehler's defenders is based
on a questionable assumption that such "drastic" measures are
effective in "extreme" cases where other methods fail.
------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Here again is pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
anonymHOWES coward, not so handsome, not so
gentle, not so manly, not so happy jackass, not even
morrison aka dogman a.k.a. BIG DADDY, a.k.a.
tommy sorenson:
"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens
At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating."
=====================
"Swatting a dog on the nose is
always the wrong thing to do."
From: Rocky <3da...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Aug 2002 18:40:54 GMT
Subject: Re: training a dog...
nancyj wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> The pressure meant a GOOD possibility if she could
> just push up hard enough, I'd understand. I did
> eventually <G>. I switched to a light tap!
Yup, once a dog learns to sit, a light tap
works as a reminder when they "forget".
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
But "NEVER HIT your dog", eh, matty?
From: qbt...@v1.arg (Dogman)
Date: 1997/01/24
Subject: Re: Over-Excited Lab
On a cold day in Hell, Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:53:10
Teaching a puppy to stop biting and nipping people is
probably the very easiest thing you will ever do as a dog
trainer. Don't make such a big deal out of it.
It's E-A-S-Y, but it won't be done in just one or
two lessons. You must be C-O-N-S-I-S-T-E-N-T.
And P-A-T-I-E-N-T.
Whenever your puppy bites or nips you (or anyone else
in your family), do any one of the following:
1.) At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm voice,
gently but firmly tap your puppy on its nose with your index
finger.
2.) At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm voice,
gently but firmly grasp your puppy's lower jaw with your
right hand (if you are right handed), your right thumb stuck
down and under her tongue, your other fingers wrapped
under her jaw, and gently but firmly shake her jaw back
and forth a couple of times.
3.) At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm voice,
gently place a couple of fingers into her mouth, trying to
touch the back of her tongue with them, initiating a gag
reflex.
Immediately after doing any one of the above,
stop playing with her for at least 15-20 minutes
and completely IGNORE her. Do not even make
eye contact!
I promise you, Phil, that if you will be consistent in
the application of the above, your puppy will soon stop
nipping and biting people. Just how soon this occurs
depends upon the puppy, how well you execute the
above, and how C-O-N-S-I-S-T-E-N-T you are.
And no one should be allowed to play with the puppy
who is not capable of doing any of the above. Not
until she has first learned not to nip and bite people.
"At the very FIRST nip, tap your puppy on his nose with
your index finger, sharply, but not very hard, your face in
his face, and say "NO BITE!" in a firm but not loud voice."
"With your index finger, tap the puppy on her nose firmly,
but not harshly, then, at the very same time, and nose to
nose with her, tell your puppy in a firm but not loud voice,
"NO BITE!"
"At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm voice,
gently but firmly tap your puppy on its nose with your
index finger."
BUT NEVER HIT YOUR DOG~!
Swatting a dog on the nose is always
the wrong thing to do.
IMO, the *fastest* way to curb a mouthy puppy's
desire to bite hands (especially if other methods
have failed, because you don't want this habit to
become reinforced by too much success), etc., is
to take advantage of the pup's gag reflex:
Slowly reach over and around the pup's shoulder
(while you're sitting on the floor), coming up to
the pup's mouth from underneath it with your
right hand (that way he can't see your finger or
your hand), and stick your index finger into the
pup's mouth, at the very rear, then down the
pup's throat, and gently place some downward
pressure on the back of the tongue, until he starts
to gag. Use your left arm to hold him close to you,
while you're doing this.
Trust me, it's easier to demonstrate this technique
than to explain it, but it's fail-proof.
He'll quickly put 2 and 2 together. Biting hands = gag.
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
-------------------
SEE?
HOWE COME would a EXXXPERT such as tommy set their
INFORMATIVE posts to EXXXPIRE in six days like matty
a.k.a. Rocky, diddler, elegy, meat terri a.k.a. dogsnuts, professora
melanie chang, marquis de "READ KOEHLER FOR CONTENT"
shaw and not so handsome not so gentle jackass, not even jack
morrison a.k.a. joe finnochiarrio a.k.a. BIG DADDY a.k.a.
DOGMAN??
Ooops~! That last anonymHOWES coward is tommy.
Is tommy EMBARRASSED by his own words, the lyin animal
murderin punk thug coward mental case fraud an SCAM ARTIST?
matty aka Rocky EXXXPLAINS HOWE COME:
"Rocky" <2d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote
For reasons I'll only explain privately, I've gone no
archive, and it's a shame. Once in a while, while
looking for something else, I'll run into an old post
of mine.
What an idiotic response!
Whoops.
-------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> and some of what you have to say is interesting.
Yeah. It's unfortunate that dog an kat lovers LOVE to
"REWARD" desirable normal natural innate instinctive
reflexive behaviors and PUNISH undesirable normal
natural innate instinctive reflexive behaviors when they
don't know HOWE to FORCE CON-TROLL of them
when their imbecilic REWARDS FAIL.
> I've had quite an adventure with my dog Muttley,
Oh, INDEEDY~!
> rescuing him from euthanasia on three occasions,
Of curse, TWO of them three occasions was paulie's idea:
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote
It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),
-------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> and learning a lot about the strong bond that
> can form between man and "beast".
YEAH:
Re: New to us Pup, Tomorrow!
"cshenk" <cshe...@cox.net> said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> "montana wildhack" wrote
>> You may want to move the crate into your bedroom.
>> Being "near" and "next to" are very different things.
> Actually I would if I could, but there isnt room.
Make room, even if the dresser or a side table has to go
away for a while. This is an important bonding time.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
--------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> I see that your blog is titled "cateaters", and I'm fairly sure
> that Muttley might have at least tried to eat my cat if he ever caught
> her,
Yeah. THAT'S HOWE COME your DEAD KAT Photon GOT DEAD.
> although I was making some progress in socializing them
No, paulie. You was jerkin an chokin Muttley to make them PALS.
LIKE THIS:
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote
Hello everyone:
If you have followed some of my posts, you know
something about the ongoing story of Muttley, the
large GSD/Chow dog I have been trying to adopt
or place in a better home.
I will add a bit more history later in this post.
Last Tuesday, toward the end of Janet's obedience
class, Muttley and I had just finished fairly successfully
performing a sit/stay/come routine, and then he was
sitting by my side.
The final routine was to be a "down", which Muttley
has had some difficulty with, and frankly I have not
had the time to work with him much on that.
I was kneeling at his side, trying to hold his collar
while pushing his front legs down to the position,
while he resisted. Suddenly he lunged, knocking
me over onto the parking lot, and I lost grip of the
leash as I reflexively broke my fall.
Muttley took the opportunity to attack a young black
male Lab to my left, and it was a very brutal attack.
Janet and the instructors tried to gain control, and as
soon as I could get to my feet I grabbed the leash and
pulled him off.
That was the end of the class, and the other dog,
Bernie, was taken to an animal hospital for treatment.
When everyone had left, Janet counseled me about
what should be done about Muttley.
She said this was more than ordinary aggression,
and only intensive (and expensive) one on one
training would have any chance at working, and
in any case, he was not suited to group training.
She advised me that Muttley could be dangerous,
and she recommended that he be euthanized.
"They can't all be saved".
<snip>
--------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> until she sadly was hit by a car and killed on the road in front of my
> house a couple years ago.
Your DEAD KAT Photon wouldn'ta been in the road
had you an janet been able to TRAIN your RESCUE
dog Muttley to be PALS:
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote
<snip>
If I did not have to worry about my cat, I would
probably keep him, and I am certain I could avoid
any more dangerous episodes. I probably would
not have taken him to obedience classes at this time
if that was not such a difficult issue, and if people
here had not essentially shamed me into doing so.
Then he would only be a bratty dog with a mind of
his own, but he would not have been identified as
dangerous.
--------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
> Instead of a blog, I put a story of the saga of me and Muttley on my
> website: www.smart.net/~pstech/Muttley/MuttleyStory.htm. You can also see
> many pictures of him in the Muttley directory.
IS THIS your DEAD KAT Photon?:
Did paulie's DEAD KAT run HOWET on
paulie an his RESCUE dog Muttley??
Hey! I think I FHOWEND him on the side of the
road JUST LIKE in the picture, but withHOWET
the sign.
Is he black an red?
If you don't want him back maybe I can keep him?
I think he's still good. He's up the road a piece from
here an there's a little on the other side of the road
there an some in the middle not far from me here.
You want him back to make sure he gets a good HOWES?
He still looks pretty good. A tad lonely maybe. Just like
in the pic, EXXXCEPT MOORE of him in MOORE pics.
Same profile, HOWEver.
BWEEEAAAAHAHAAHAHAAA!!!
> He is still quite a handful,
Naaaaah?
> and sometimes hard to control,
Despite ALL your OBEDIENCE TRAININ, paulie??
> but he is a sweet fellow and I have been able to train him
> enough to have decent manners with people and other dogs. He used to jump
> up on me and other people, but he has calmed
> down considerably. Yet he will still jump up on my friend who originally
> rescued him. I think this is because she encourages it and makes him
> excited.
No, paulie. Muttley GETS "EXXXCITED" on accHOWENTA
your "RESCUE" pal hellen jerks an chokes an intimidates him.
> But eventually he settles down and will sit or lie down nicely while I
> enjoy a meal or do whatever else I may want to do. Sometimes he begs for a
> few morsels, or scratches my leg with a paw to let me know he needs to go
> out or to alert me of something, but he has become
> a wondeful pet and loyal companion.
Oh, INDEEDY~! So long as you keep him tied up.
> Don't let the PW (JH) get you riled up.
Of curse not~!
SteveB won't respond to HIM on accHOWENTA he's
so busy playin GRABASS with your animal murderin
MENTAL CASES <{}: ~ ( >
> He will not acknowledge any other method
> of training other than his own "methods",
On accHOWENTA they DON'T WORK.
> and they did not seem to work as expected on my dog,
That's a LIE, paulie. The methods WORKED AS STATED
HOWEver, YOU DIDN'T LIKE you RESCUE dog Muttley
NOT BEIN AFRAID OF YOU <{}: ~ ( >
AND you NEVER finished even the 1st EXXXORCISE.
> so now he accuses me of yanking and choking my
> dog on a prong collar to force him into obedience,
YOU MEAN JUST LIKE HOWE YOU DONE, paulie?:
Re: Rejected for obedience training (even evaluation)
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote in message news:
468f2c62$0$21031$ecde5...@news.coretel.net...
<Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laborat...@HotMail.Com>
wrote in message
news:1183778458.4...@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> HOWEDY paule e. schoen,
> "Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote in message
> news:468dc6d8$0$11048$ecde...@news.coretel.net...
>> Now that my evaluation of Jerry's methods are complete
> You NEVER COMPLETED the first EXXXORCISE
It was unsuccessful when Muttley simply ignored
the constant praise and became confused. Maybe
that method works on high strung, needy dogs that
need to be calmed down.
> Yeah. HOWE COME you won't TRY using the NON
> VIOLENT methods I teach FOR FREE, paulie?
Your non-violent methods for dogs ring hollow
when you use verbal violence against other dog
owners, thus triggering their own opposition
reflexes. I will try other non-violent methods
that communicate what is expected of the dog.
And I don't believe that proper use of a prong
collar or choker chain are evil and physically
hurtful.
[snip verbal abuse]
So you think it is effective to withold praise,
but offer it as a bribe to get people to follow
your methods? Or promise you will stop beating
them if they obey your commands? Yet never do
it for a dog?
Paul and Muttley (almost fully recovered from
Arbitrary Praise Neurosis)
-------------------------
From:
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laborat...@HotMail.Com
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 06:24:51 -0700
Subject: Re: Rejected for obedience training (even evaluation)
HOWEDY paul e. schoen,
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote in message news:
468f2c62$0$21031$ecde5...@news.coretel.net...
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laborat...@HotMail.Com>
wrote in message
> news:1183778458.4...@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> HOWEDY paule e. schoen,
>> "Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote
>> in message news:468dc6d8$0$11048$ecde...@news.coretel.net...
>>> Now that my evaluation of Jerry's methods are
>>> complete
>> You NEVER COMPLETED the first EXXXORCISE
IN FACT, you NEVER STUDIED The Manual AS INSTRUCTED.
You see paulie, I was EXXXPECTING folks like you to come in
here BULLSHITTIN me and therefore The Manual was written
in such a way as to be able to DIAGNOSE the BULLSHITTERS
from the STUDENTS who simply have difficulty with their dogs.
You're a BULLSHITTER and a DOG ABUSER and a COWARD.
> It was unsuccessful when Muttley simply
> ignored the constant praise and became confused.
You mean, when Muttley became UN AFRAID
of you jerking choking and intimidating him and
was waiting for you to resort to jerking and chokin
him again like HOWE you had PREFERRED to
do pryor to TRY bein KIND to your dog?:
From: <>
To: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Damned Family Leadership Exercise -
Re: Am I expecting to much
Hi Jerry,
When I talked to you on the phone to order to machine
for daughter's new pup, I told you that I had an older
Chessie. I rescued him at 9 years old and have had
him for 3 years.
It's funny, but I thought I'd try some of your book
training with him. Where I used to say "come" and
then say "good boy" when he obeyed, I have reversed
it with a "good boy" first.
It really does work.
He was very confused at first, wondering
what he had done to get the praise.
But it really gets the attention and distracts him from
whatever he may have going through his brain when
he hears it.
Dogs are funny, but people are too. Can't wait to get
the Doggy do Right, etc.
Thanks,
N
> Maybe that method works on high strung,
> needy dogs that need to be calmed down.
The Method WORKS on ALL critters, even
wolves, children and ladies even better than
cookies and shiny objects <{}: ~ ) >
>> Yeah. HOWE COME you won't TRY using the NON
>> VIOLENT methods I teach FOR FREE, paulie?
> Your non-violent methods for dogs ring hollow
> when you use verbal violence against other dog
> owners,
"Other dog owners", paulie? But not YOU.
You're gonna QUIT TRAINING Muttley withHOWET
HURTIN HIM on accHOWENTA I'm CRUEL to "other
dog owners" who JERK CHOKE SHOCK CRIPPLE and
MURDER their dogs?
> thus triggering their own opposition reflexes.
Seems you dislike "OTHER DOG OWNERS" being
verbally assaulted even more than Muttley dislikes
being jerked and choked, eh?
Would you be kindly enough to CITE where I was
CRUEL to you when you "STOPPED HURTIN your
dog", paulie??
> I will try other non-violent methods
There AIN'T NO "other non-violent methods"
unless you mean BRIBERY / clicker idiocy:
"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING
THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge,
demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon that
an expected reward not received is experienced as a
punishment and can produce extensive and persistent
aggression (Azrin et al, 1966)."
> that communicate what is expected of the dog.
<SNIP>
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote
It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),
> Paul and Muttley
Hey paulie? THAT'S HOWE COME your own DEAD
KATS Photon an Meshon GOT DEAD on you.
REMEMBER?
> while in reality he just likes to pull when he wants to move faster than I
> do.
Dogs PULL on accHOWENTA DOG ABUSERS CHOKE THEM.
LIKE THIS:
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
Here's paulie's CUSTOME MADE pronged spiked pinch choke collar:
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
Janet Boss
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
Do you think the citronella collar is CRUEL
cause the SMELL LINGERS after the dog's
been sprayed in the face and the dog won't
know HOWE COME IT was MACED?
janet CONtinues:
> > My dogs are not human children wearing fur- they are DOGS.
> > I don't have anything against electronic bark collars, but they
> > should be used in conjunction with actually working at training
> > your dog(s).
They're DUMB ANIMALS these MENTALLY ILL LYING
DOG ABUSERS HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER.
-------------------
LIKE THIS:
Here's janet's REAL LIFE IN PERSON "student" paul:
#2 - 6/05/07
>> When I was training him under Janet's supervision I
>> was instructed to give it a ? firm yank as a correction.
> I advised you to use a prong collar, not give firm yanks
> on a chain choke collar. I hate the things.
>> She was able to get his attention with just a quick tug, but I
>> had to yank on it hard enough to lift him off his feet to get him
>> to respond.
>
>> Looking back now, I think it was based on his fear, which he
>> had for her (as an unknown), but not for me (whom he had
>> learned to trust).
> He wasn't afraid of me. He knew I was a confident trainer.
> Fear has no place in dog training, as I told you THEN.
> Janet.
It seems to me that applying stern corrections, by
popping a choker chain, prong collar, or whatever,
is a way to ensure compliance by instilling a fear
of further punishment.
Sure, if it is administered very consistently
by a confident trainer, the dog soon learns
to obey. There was no positive reinforcement,
so what remains is negative.
Also, I recall the time you were going to show me
how I could get Muttley to take his rawhide treat
from me without lunging for it. When you offered
it to him, he refused to take it. This IMHO is likely
a fear behavior.
Things have changed a lot since then, and I have
learned a lot, and Muttley has settled down quite
a bit. I probably still give him too much freedom
to think on his own, but that's just my way of
doing things, and that's probably not going to
change much. He may never win an obedience
medal, but I don't think he is dangerously out
of control, either.
Paul and Muttley
"I thought I was told that the way to get the dog to go
down was to make him sit and then step on the leash.
That was awkward and didn't seem to work.
I will confess that I only tried the "down" position
once or twice at home, and I also often used it
instead of "Off" when I wanted him to stop
jumping on me or elsewhere I didn't want him to be.
I had to give him corrections every few seconds,
and also just about kick him, to keep him at my
left side.
Muttley is really a very sweet and loving dog, but
he needs more socialization with other dogs. However,
it is very likely that I will have him put down in a week."
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote
It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),
-----------------------
THAT'S quite a SUCCESS STORY, ain't it <{}: ~ ( >
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
HERE'S HOWE COME:
Subject: Re: redirected aggression
Date: 4/11/07
"Janet Boss" <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message
news:janet-730AB8....@news.individual.net...
It seems I have been dealing with this a bit lately.
Dog to dog and dog to person,, with dogs who are
obviously overstimulated by what's in front of them.
What's in front of them varies from people at the door
to dogs in their path or directly in their face. The dogs
in question all have very poor self control.
I have dog(s) with not-so-great-natural self control,
so it's something we constantly work on. We don't
have redirected stuff going on, because we have enough
obedience to avoid it.
While I know that's the big answer for the dogs in
question as well, I'm curious what things people have
found useful to redirect/focus/gain attention from
drivey dogs or just very distracted of over-the-top dogs.
We're having success with my recommendations, but I'm
always open to something novel that may be the hot ticket.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
SEE?
> Good luck with the storms down there in FL.
Yeah. We'll all keep HOWER fingers crossed, eh, paulie?
HOWE COME a good Xian like you don't offer us a PREYER??
> Do you have any photos of your Dal/Lab mix?
That's jay.cmpbll's blog, paulie <{}: ~ ( >
> Paul and Muttley
------------------
From: "GEORGE VONHILSHEINER" <DRV...@EARTHLINK.NET>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Proposed article for Wikipedia
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:48:33 -0500
The Amazing Puppy Wizard is the cognomen of a dog behaviorist,
Jerry Howe, of Orlando, Fl. Howe's primary teaching is that
dogs deserve unconditional love, respect, and attention and
that by providing these emotional needs dogs will regulate
their own behavior.
Howe is bombastically antagonistic to rewarders, but he is
aggressively hostile to punishers - he refers antagonists
to B.F. Skinner, Mary Cover Jones, and J.B. Watson and
especially to Samuel A. Corson when they mistakenly annunciate
behavioral principles to support their use of punishment.
Punishment always deranges behavior, says Skinner,
Jones, Watson, Corson and Jerry Howe!
Howe developed a sonic device which calms dogs and has
been broadly tested in a wide range of different situations.
The present author is a Who's Who recognized psychologist
who was asked to evaluate Howe's device by a former student.
Howe provided the author with a device, without
charge, and said device worked as reported.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
drv...@earthlink.net
Then cross reference to Jerry Howe, etc.
--------------
Jerry, the difficulty with these ignorant dog molesters
is that they cannot read. Negative reinforcement is no
response by the trainer.
There is positive reinforcement, an action which is followed
by an increase in the targetted behavior (usually called
"reward" which is precisely and technically a misnomer),
negative reinforcement is the absence of any response.
Negative means 'No'.
Skinner's last book, "CUMULATIVE RECORD" reviews this
thoroughly. http://www.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/proj/nru/nr.html
Negative reinforcement is stopping an aversive reinforcement
according to this author. Read it, they have a sense of humor!
There are four forms of systematic reinforcement:
do nothing (negative reinforcement)
reward the behavior (positive reinforcement)
punish the behavior (aversive reinforcement) after habituating
the subject to punishment,
stop punishing (relief of aversion, which is negative reinforcement).
Logically, failing to reward after habituating a reward
is also negative reinforcement. Actually intermittent
rewards work better than consistent, invariable rewards,
so there is actually another two categories. Invariable
reinforcement and random reinforcement (on varying schedules).
Punishment is AVERSIVE REINFORCEMENT.
Actions which cause the animal being trained to avoid,
avert, cringe away from. Pavlovians always responded
to American psychologist's inability to reproduce Pavlov's
results with dogs with the comment, "American's don't LOVE
their dogs". If you ever observed a Russian psychologist
working with a dog, you'd instantly see the difference.
American psychologists were wooden, robot-like,
wanted to be "scientific".
This meant to them that they should display no
affection, or any other emotion with the subjects.
When a Pavlovian dog started to misbehave or fail to respond,
doggie was taken out of the equipment, and taken home for a
loving vacation, with much TLC. Sam Corson, Pavlov's last
student, demonstrated the same relationships at Ohio State.
Interestingly the first page of results for Sam Corson,
dog behaviorist is loaded with Jerry Howe quoting Dr. Von.
heh heh heh
Dr. Von
Oh, by the way, you once had a pompous fellow say that
Dr. Von was a figment of your imagination. I don't
normally mention this, but I have been listed in Who's
Who in the S & SE USA since 1982, and in the big books,
Who's Who in the USA, WW in the World, WW in Medicine
etc, and WW in Science and Technology, since that date.
These are the Marquis Publications, the "real" WW, and
you can't get yourself into them.
GvH
============
Here's a couple of tommy sorenson's aka not so handsome,
not so gentle, jackass, not even morrison a.k.a. DOGMAN,
the anonymHOWES COWARD's SUCCESSFUL "STUDENTS":
"Feisty, Humorous, Brave, Curious And
Playful. Full Of "Joie de Vivre," And DEAD.
From: Laura Arlov (l...@wordfixers.no)
Subject: Re: Chewie bit my husband !
Date: 1999/01/20
Quote laura:
Well, we're doing as you say Dogman,
and I'll keep you all posted.
Laura in Oslo
You're quite the dog enthusiast, eh laura?
Quote laura:
The listener,
You didn't WANT to listen to The Puppy Wizard when
HE told you you couldn't PUNISH and INTIMIDATE
your dog or you'd make IT aggressive.
Quote laura:
the observer.
NHOWE you got a DEAD DOG HOWETA it.
Quote laura:
We do work were you sometimes have to observe people
Like laura, MURDERING her dog...
Quote laura:
and take notes.
INDEEDY!
Quote laura:
B. has amazing powers of observation and concentration.
RIGHT...
Quote laura:
Laura and Angel in Oslo
steve walker's DEAD DOG Sampson was a shelter / rescue
Golden. He begain TURNING on his daughter so he PUNISHED
IT. That seemed to have CURED Sampson's FEAR of steve's
daughter but TAUGHT IT to attack OTHER daddy's daughters,
and GOT HIM DEAD, despite all the EXXXPERTEASE of HOWER
fellHOWE dog lovers here and the BIG SHOT, john rogerson,
in the UK <{}: ~ ( >
LIKE THIS:
Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"
< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.
'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.
>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are
Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?
Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
=====================
> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood
enough of the manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher
and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe and use it.
This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.
Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.
Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)
============
SEE?
tommy sez:
> Sucker.
Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy, "you insipid piece of cow dung!"
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAA~!~!~!
AND LIKE THIS:
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: Steve Walker <skwal...@btinternet.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 01:54:57 +0100
Subject: Sad news (Samson)
Hello everyone, hope you remember me. I've been quiet
here for ages, firstly because of a computer breakdown
that took ages to remedy, and then it's been difficult
to find the heart to write to the group again.
You see, on Sep 21, after much heart-searching, I took
Samson back to the RSPCA to be put to sleep. He was a
brilliant dog with his family, but was becoming more &
more fear reactive with people, especially small children,
and (apparently randomly) with other dogs, to the point
where we had to muzzle him when he went out and if we
had visitors (which is often), because we just couldn't
trust people to remember to leave him alone, so his
quality of life had become not much.
We put him through a rehab programme from John Rogerson's
practice - I gather he's pretty well-known, so some of
you might have heard of him - which did everything they
said it would (reliable recall, focused his attention much
more on us, etc - except reduce his tendency to react
suddenly and bite.
The vet had checked him and found nothing, but I'd still
have suspected a brain tumour or something if it hadn't
been for the fact that he was totally reliable with the kids
and us.
I called the RSPCA to let them know that the rehab programme
wasn't working, and they said that if we gave him back, they'd
assess him but he'd almost certainly be put down.
I couldn't let him be alone among strangers for his last
moments, so I asked if they'd let me take him immediately
and stay with him while it was done, and they agreed.
It was a sunny day, and he was happy enough on the drive to
the centre, but I could barely hold myself together. He was
nervous of going into the surgery and I had to coax him in,
and I felt like an utter traitor.
I stroked him as they prepared him, crying and telling him
how sorry I was, and nearly panicked and ran out with him
when they brought out the needle.
But I knew if I did it would only be delaying the inevitable,
and I'd be risking someone, probably a child, being injured,
which I couldn't do. So I went through with it, and in a few
seconds it was over and I'd killed my dog, who trusted me
to look after him.
I told a mailing list I'm on straight away, and they've been
fantastically kind. I was in a daze for days afterwards, and
still have the occasional flashback to that day, but I'm coping
a lot better now, and would love to give a home to another dog,
but my wife doesn't feel ready yet.
Soon, though, I hope. I miss Samson terribly, but while I
feel a lot of guilt for the decision I made, I know there
wasn't another way out, and at least I could make sure I was
with him at the end.
I owed him that.
I know there are some here who will gloat over this email,
but all I can say is that their opinion, their existence,
is irrelevant to me. For the rest of you, the good, decent
majority who frequent this group, I didn't want to just
disappear, and not tell you what had happened, after you
gave me so much support and help from the outset.
Samson was my first dog, and the help I got here made
life much better for him and us while we were together.
If the glad day comes when we do adopt another dog,
I'll let you know. I hope it's soon.
God bless,
--
Steve Walker
-------------
Seems steevie is in DEEP DENIAL~!
From: Steve Walker <skwal...@btinternet.com>
Date: 2000/10/09
Subject: Re: Sad news (Samson) = I'm GLAD You Killed Samson,
He Was A BAD GENETIC Choice. You Did The Right Thing. Turn
And Don't Look Back.
In article FJ6E5.62103$O95.4439...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com,
Jerry Howe <jh...@cfl.rr.com> writes
> Nor can I. Nor can Marilyn. She does the same kind of
> work I do. We KNEW this was going to happen, based on steve's original
> posts here...
Jerry, you're still in my killfile, but somehow this one
made it through, so I'll respond before I ignore you again.
You obviously have a very short memory. Samson was not
trained using aggressive, confrontational or harsh methods.
John Rogerson's rehab programme was based entirely on using
kind methods to get Samson's attention even more fixed on us
(which wouldn't have worked if they were not kind), with the
intention that Samson wouldn't even be interested in other
dogs and people, until we had such good control that we
could start to introduce others under controlled circumstances
that would persuade Samson it was great to have them around.
It worked, in so far as Samson became even more attached
to us, had a perfect recall etc. Unfortunately, this didn't
stop the fact that he might suddenly react aggressively to
even the proximity of a stranger or strange dog.
No aggressive methods were used in this programme. Not one.
But the problem was too deep-rooted, too instinctive, and
Samson just couldn't help himself.
He'd shake if a small child even entered the room, and if
they approached him he'd try to bite them. Not as a reaction
to aggression, but just because he had some deep-rooted fear
issue going back to before we ever had him.
We could not risk that he would injure someone, especially
a child, so we made the decision we did - not lightly, but
with tears.
You, however, are an idiot. Don't bother replying, because
even if one of your posts makes it past the killfile again,
you'll just be binned with the rest of the garbage.
Goodbye.
--
Steve Walker
-----------------
Naaaaah??
QUOTE FROM lyingdogDUMMY:
> "The only one I see acting like a fool is you, Crim,
> for buying into anything Howe ever has to say, about anything, and for not
> listening to me when it comes
> to dogs."
Ever hear the expression "sit rolls down hill?"
> but was becoming more & more fear reactive
> with people, especially small children,
That's it in a nutshell. You taught him through your own
actions, HOWE to deal with other, less capable beings.
Dogs copy our actions and attitudes. They mirror us. They
emulate us. And when we respond to their natural, innate,
instinctive, reflexive behaviors, with punishment, the dog
loses confidence in our judgement and leadership ability.
Seems I recall you mentioning the children were learning
to CORRECT Samson on lead, so THEY could enjoy walking with
him. Didn't you mention they were learning some alpha dominance
techniques as well?
Can't let that big lug pull down the children now, can we?
So you teach the children to violate the dog's trust with
a few good corrections. And YOU back up the children with
the HAMMERS OF HELL...
And it worked. Didn't it, just as I told you so.
Just as I told Robert Crim.
But you guys were too smart to be taken in by this con man.
You listened to our fear, force, and alpha dominance control
freaks, who learned ALL that they know about dog behavior from
the MADMAN, MONSTER, wm koehler.
So, it seems the only problem is that you didn't read
the back of the book. That's what our Gang Of Thugs fails
to mention, until it's too late.
That's the part that says when the dog is finally provoked
to act out on his trainer or other weaker family members,
that you've got to HANG the dog till his eyes roll back in
ITS head, ITS tongue turns thick and blue and falls out the
side of ITS mouth, and when you put IT back on the ground,
IT should stagger to IT'S feet, and PUKE.
That's the cure for this behavior problem, you just never asked.
I expect you'll enjoy your next dog as much as you enjoyed Samson.
Tell him HOWEDY for me, eh good buddy? Eh? Huh? Huh? Eh??? Eh???
Yours for responsible dog handling and training,
Jerry "Don't Confront The Dog," Howe.
From: Dogman <dog...@i1.net>
Date: 2000/10/08
Subject: Re: Sad news (Samson) = ninnyboy
"JohnK" <jo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> It's too late. I already know what a disgusting, vile
> human being you are. You are to be ignored now.
Come on, John.
It didn't really take that Sampson post for you to know
that Howe is a disgusting, vile human being, did it?
I hope not.
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
SEE?
AND LIKE THIS:
Subject: Re: RIP Teena 1999 - 2004
"Handsome Jack Morrison" <me10...@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in
message news:p8sn1093e89a5202r...@4ax.com...
> On 31 Jan 2004 17:48:39 GMT, KWBrown arfenarfSPAMBL...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> Well.
> She tried to take a bite out of our trainer, and that was that.
> Teena the ESS made her last trip to the vet and, I hope,
> sleeps more peacefully than she has in years.
I'm very sorry to hear that, Kate.
But going by the information you posted here about her,
you had no choice.
Godspeed, Teena.
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
Hello Dogdirtforbirdbrains,
You ain't getting away with that any more. You are not going to get
away with blaming genetics for the behavior problems created
through abusive training methods recommended by thugs like you
and Koehler, that cause dogs to turn on their owners and families,
and die as a result!
People are getting smart around here, and fast! You becoming well
recognized for what you are. I don't need to elaborate on that
anymore. Everybody knows.
> What a piece of shit you are, Crim. Blaming me, or blaming
> Koehler, for poor Fritz's problem, is like blaming a doctor who
> couldn't save your child's life, and that's unconscionable.
You told Crim that Koehler was fantastic. He bought it hook, line,
and sinker, and it sank him. You must know the risk, just as I do.
I've seen this sort of thing happen repeatedly for over thirty years.
It will stop. I'm not going to allow you people to get away with it
anymore.
I will dog you, Koehler, and all of your kind right to the gates of
Hell, and I'll train Appallion to keep you there forever. Guaranteed.
The gates of Hell are guarded by a Wits' End trained dog.
> Your dog was almost certainly predestined by his *genes* to end
> up like he did, particularly since he had *you* as his thoroughly
> confused, ignorant and inconsistent doofus owner.
No, it was the Koehler method that killed Fritz. It was your advice
that killed Fritz. It was me, not being here sooner, that killed Fritz.
Crim was a victim, just like Fritz. Crim did everything by the book,
exactly as per the instructions. He followed your advice. He lost,
big time. I could have predicted the outcome, the percentage of this
kind of "collateral damage" is unacceptably high.
Those things, I am certain of. Those things, I am determined to stop.
> The only one I see acting like a fool is you, Crim, for buying into
> anything Howe ever has to say, about anything,
> and for not listening to me when it comes to dogs.
You are mad at me, because I forced Crim to examine exactly what
happened to Fritz, and he came to the correct conclusion. If I
hadn't, he'd be doing the same things he'd done before, but harder,
and faster, and maybe lost his next dog, faster and harder.
You now blame the genes, you now blame Crim for mishandling.
You said it was a good thing he destroyed his untrustworthy dog.
That is the kind of response you have given many people over the
years, isn't it? I know that for certain, I've been fighting you
Thugs all my life. It's almost over now, people are getting wise to
you, and Koehler, and Fraud Die, and the rest of the "in crowd" here.
Before, it was just me fighting for proper handling and training
methods. You've all ganged up on me, trying everything possible
to discredit and intimidate me. That didn't work. Not one of you
cretins have successfully discredited any of my methods. Keep trying,
please.
Now, there are several competent professional dog trainers, all with
somewhat different but nonetheless acceptable, non force, methods.
For the first time in my career, I've learned something from another
dog trainer. We've got a good thing going now, and you and our
Gang Of Thugs have to change, or go off into obscurity, in shame and
contempt.
You can't make up for the harm you've done, but you were an
innocent victim just like Crim, and you can be forgiven, and
rehabilitated, and you don't have to continue doing any more harm.
The choice is up to you. It's time to do or die.
> Dogman aka "Big Daddy"
> dog...@i1.net
===================
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Rocky
>>My conjecture is that that works as well as other methods,
>>but with some scary side-effects.
>
> Then it doesn't work "as well as," does it really? I
> gather that this "Paul" has an extremely limited toolkit or
> lacks the skill to do anything but throw his dog around.
I should've written: "...works as quickly as other methods..."
And many are of the school that if it worked with a previous dog
50 years ago, there's no need to expand one's horizon. Then
there's the school which says dogs only understand physical
correction. SteveB is probably one of those and notatroll.
[followups]
Rocky
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> When I want to correct my dog, I try to show him that what
> he/she has done displeases me. I can withdraw attention,
> not pet them, talk them in a low voice, or just walk away.
Negative punishments.
> When I want to punish them, I do a Barack Obama impression,
> which really makes them cringe.
Have you read what Dianne has written? Go back in the thread.
Punishment does not equate to making a dog fear the handler.
Punishment simply refers to decreasing a behaviour. If your dog
cringes, it's your attitude which is causing your dog's
fearfulness of you.
> Positive and negative punishments cancel each other with no
> matter left over for discussion.
In Bizzaro World.
Melinda Shore
SteveB <noval...@ozone.com> wrote:
>I'm sorry. Was I drunk or absent the day you were coronated and put in
>charge?
How is that responsive to the suggestion that you've got
extremely limited dog training skills? Or is it that your
argumentation skills (argumentation as in "debate," not
argumentation as in "bluster loudly and act like a bully")
are on par with your dog training skills?
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
Melinda Shore
Rocky <3d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote:
>And many are of the school that if it worked with a previous dog
>50 years ago, there's no need to expand one's horizon. Then
>there's the school which says dogs only understand physical
>correction. SteveB is probably one of those and notatroll.
Right. I think he's a dumbass, not a troll.
Robin Nuttall
> "SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
>>Positive and negative punishments cancel each other with no
>>matter left over for discussion.
>
>
> In Bizzaro World.
>
I must be in a weird mood since I'm willing to actually try to
edjumicate this guy.
Steve, do a search on Operant Conditioning and/or B.F. Skinner. In
science, positive and negative, reinforcement and punishment, all have
specific definitions of which you are obviously not aware. And Operant
Conditioning merely describes a theory by which behaviors are said to
have consequences.
Positive: ADD something
Negative: SUBTRACT something
Reinforcement: INCREASE a behavior
Punishment: DECREASE a behavior.
Therefore, you get the four quadrants of operant conditioning are
Positive Reinforcement: ADD something to INCREASE a behavior
Negative Reinforcement: SUBTRACT something to INCREASE a behavior
Positive Punishment: ADD something to DECREASE a behavior
Negative Punishment: SUBTRACT something to DECREASE a behavior.
Positive and negative do not "cancel each other out" any more than an
apple cancels out an orange. They're two different things, with
different consequences.
Withdrawing attention when the dog tries to jump on you is negative
punishment. Kneeing the dog in the chest is positive punishment.
In all training, it's far more productive (and fun) to teach the dog
what you DO want rather than what you don't. I find dogs very rarely
need any sort of "punishment."
And just so you understand, the people who are answering you on this
list are people with a tremendous number of years training dogs to very
high levels in all kinds of situations. It really wil behoove you to
listen.
Melinda Shore
Robin Nuttall <rob...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>In all training, it's far more productive (and fun) to teach the dog
>what you DO want rather than what you don't.
I've found that to be kind of hit and miss. Sounds good on
paper but sometimes just doesn't work.
Still, I have to say that you're being kind of a spoilsport.
I was looking forward to more "I'm conservative" posts to
explain why he doesn't know things or to explain why he gets
violent on his dog's ass. That was unusual.
Robin Nuttall
> In article <kEWxk.336633$yE1.34808@attbi_s21>,
> Robin Nuttall <rob...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
>>In all training, it's far more productive (and fun) to teach the dog
>>what you DO want rather than what you don't.
>
>
> I've found that to be kind of hit and miss. Sounds good on
> paper but sometimes just doesn't work.
Oh sure. But with few exceptions I've found ignoring what I don't want
has pretty spectacular results. Not always of course. It depends on how
self-reinforcing the "bad" thing is. If I ignore the dog raiding the
trash can and he gets a chicken carcass, well gee, that's not going to
get the dog to stop raiding the trash can.
>
> Still, I have to say that you're being kind of a spoilsport.
> I was looking forward to more "I'm conservative" posts to
> explain why he doesn't know things or to explain why he gets
> violent on his dog's ass. That was unusual.
I know, I know. Sorry. I couldn't help it.
SteveB
"Terri" <Te...@micron.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9B1565DD...@130.133.1.18...
> "SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote in
> news:k55lp5-...@news.infowest.com:
> enabling excuses for yourself.
>
> Like most self-important wankers, you seem to think every single post
> is about youyouyou. It's a discussion group.
> You're an adult. Cope. Learn to use all the keys on your keyboard.
You cannot comprehend the value of this information to me.
SteveB
Since you chose NOT to post the relevant passages in context, I cannot
respond.
Steve
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote in message
news:48c62c2c$0$31906$ecde...@news.coretel.net..."SteveB"
<toquerville@zionvistas> wrote in message
news:02hbp5-...@news.infowest.com...
> I've broken many a dog from jumping up on me. The owner
> asks me, "How come he doesn't jump on you and he jumps on everyone else?"
>
> I dont' tell him that when the dog jumped, I did the appropriate
> thing and taught the dog myself, several with just one jump. I
> just say, "I guess he doesn't like me." Funny, at the time, I'm usually
> bent over petting the tail wagging dog.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but I think you are saying
that you can break the dog of this behavior by just ignoring it,
and rewarding a less physical sort of greeting.
<SNIP SELF-SERVING IDIOCY>
-------------------
Yeah.
LIKE THIS:
"SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote in message
news:9cdip5-...@news.infowest.com...
I break a dog by timing a knee to the chest or a shin to
the chest at the moment he jumps up on me. Usually,
it just startles the dog, and causes him to bounce back
a bit.
At the same time, I say a sharp "NO". I will admit that at
times, I have thrown a dog right over on a 3/4 flip with them
landing on their backs. These are the dogs that it usually only
takes once to break.
I immediately bend at the knees and squat down and praise
and pet the dog, teaching them that I will bend down to pet
them, and they don't have to jump up to get petted. After
that, when I see them, I greet them that way, and they will
stay down until you pet them.
Most dogs go away after that, the doggie equivalent of
scratch and sniff greeting.
Sorry I was ambiguous about it, but I know some do not
agree with this technique. To those people, all I can say
is that Skippy ain't about to paw my $100 slacks, thank
you very much.
I have a pound rescue Rott/Lab that is the biggest pussycat
in the world. She must have been a guard dog or guide dog
in another life because she is totally trained, and won't even
eat unless given permission.
I believe she could and would do some damage if danger
actually occurred. We've lessened her rigidity, but she
still sticks to her training at times. She has never once
jumped up on me.
Now, if I could only break her of the doggy handshake
.......... (nose to crotch and then the swift lifting of the
nose). My corgi is as hardheaded as any corgi, but he
doesn't jump up either.
Steve
------------------
paul e. schoen CONtinues his self-serving LIES an IDIOCY:
> Don't let the PW (JH) get you riled up. He will not acknowledge
> any other method of training other than his own "methods", and they did
> not seem to work as expected on my dog,
That's a LIE, paulie. The METHOD WORKED. *You* DIDN'T
LIKE your RESCUE dog Muttley NOT BEIN AFRAID OF YOU.
"so now he accuses me of yanking and choking my
dog on a prong collar to force him into obedience,"
LIKE THIS:
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
-------------------
LIKE THIS:
#2 - 6/05/07
Paul and Muttley
-----------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> so now he accuses me of yanking and choking my dog on a prong collar to
> force him into obedience,
LIKE THIS:
paulie wrote:
Your non-violent methods for dogs ring hollow
when you use verbal violence against other dog
owners, thus triggering their own opposition
reflexes. I will try other non-violent methods
that communicate what is expected of the dog.
And I don't believe that proper use of a prong
collar or choker chain are evil and physically
hurtful.
[snip verbal abuse]
So you think it is effective to withold praise,
but offer it as a bribe to get people to follow
your methods? Or promise you will stop beating
them if they obey your commands? Yet never do
it for a dog?
Paul and Muttley (almost fully recovered from
Arbitrary Praise Neurosis)
---------------------
"so now he accuses me of yanking and choking my
dog on a prong collar to force him into obedience,"
SEE?
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> while in reality he Just likes to pull when he wants to move faster than I
> do.
Dogs PULL to ESCAPE BEING CHOKED, paulie <{}: ~ ) >
> Good luck with the storms down there in FL. Do you have any photos of your
> Dal/Lab mix?
>
> Paul and Muttley
HOWEDY paul e. schoen,
LIKE THIS:
-----------------------
LikeWIZE <{}: ~ ) >
That's ABSURD:
Freeze Frame <{}: ~ ) >
Dear Marilyn,
----------------
------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
=====================
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
But "NEVER HIT your dog", eh, matty?
And P-A-T-I-E-N-T.
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
-------------------
SEE?
What an idiotic response!
Whoops.
-------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Oh, INDEEDY~!
-------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
YEAH:
> "montana wildhack" wrote
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
--------------------------
Shelly
news:1lhnp5-...@news.infowest.com:
> Since you chose NOT to post the relevant passages in context, I
> cannot respond.
And yet, you did.
--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
Melinda Shore
Shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net> wrote:
>And yet, you did.
Oh, he did it even though he couldn't because he's a
conservative. I'm sure his fellow conservatives are
endlessly grateful that he explained his ignorance of basic
behavioral theory and his choice to get heavy-handed and
physical with his dog by posting that he's conservative.
After all, the problem with stereotypes is not that they're
never true.
Shelly
@panix2.panix.com:
> I'm sure his fellow conservatives are
> endlessly grateful that he explained his ignorance of basic
> behavioral theory and his choice to get heavy-handed and
> physical with his dog by posting that he's conservative.
Maybe "Jack" will set him straight? Or maybe they'll find that
they're kindred souls?
Anyway, he'd never get close enough to my dog to knee her in the
chest. I strongly suspect that part of the reason she's tweaky is
that in the past, she's encountered folks like Steve.
> After all, the problem with stereotypes is not that they're
> never true.
Yep. And this asswagon is just one giant stereotype begging to be
boggled at.
Mary Healey
> ... his choice to get heavy-handed and
> physical with his dog
Y'know, there's the general asshattery in doing stupid things with your own
dog, and I respect that. Sucks for the dog, but they tend to be fairly
adaptable creatures; tolerating an idiot owner is all in a day's work for
many dogs.
Where I draw the line is people choosing to "correct" *my* dogs. While
neither of mine are likely to trigger the specific stupidity Steve espoused
here, who knows what other brands of medieval "training" he and his ilk
might suddenly feel compelled to share with strangers?
--
Mary H. and the restored Ames National Zoo:
The Right Reverand Sir Edgar "Lucky" Pan-Waffles;
U-CD ANZ Babylon Ranger, CD, RA; ANZ Pas de Duke; and rotund Rhia
Handsome Jack Morrison
wrote:
>sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore) wrote in news:gabi45$h87$1
>@panix2.panix.com:
>
>> I'm sure his fellow conservatives are
>> endlessly grateful that he explained his ignorance of basic
>> behavioral theory and his choice to get heavy-handed and
>> physical with his dog by posting that he's conservative.
>
>Maybe "Jack" will set him straight?
Yes, "Jack" set him straight.
>Or maybe they'll find that they're kindred souls?
<sigh>
After all these years here, do you really think that's true?
Back only a few days, and already you're stirring up the shit.
What a dirtbag.
<spit>
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
The NYT (finally!) Discovers The Chicago Annenberg Challenge.
http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/09/the-times-disco.html
http://globallabor.blogspot.com/2008/09/obamaayersannenberg-update-ny-times.html
Ten Myths About Budget Deficits and Debt.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/bg2178.cfm
The Fallacy of 'Green Jobs'.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09/green_jobs.html
The two Americas: One likes kids, the other doesn't.
http://rightcoast.typepad.com/rightcoast/2008/09/maybe-its-all-a.html
This is what happens when you don't build power plants.
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/60259/Blackout-Britain-warning
The Culture War's Decisive Battle has Begun.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/the_culture_wars_decisive_batt_1.html
The *Real* Google Agenda. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
http://pajamasmedia.com/edgelings/2008/09/05/the-real-google-agenda/
Do you really want this person to be your new First Lady? (Be sure to read her *entire* thesis).
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8642.html
If this doesn't scare the shit out of you, you might be a fascist.
http://volokh.com/posts/1220243277.shtml
Handsome Jack Morrison
>Where I draw the line is people choosing to "correct" *my* dogs.
Unfortunately, that's a straw man, because asshat though he may be, he
was obviously referring to *his* dogs.
Then you (and others) went bonkers on him (in your usual inimitable
ways), threatening to kick him in his balls, his head, etc., if he did
that to your dogs.
Lovely, ladies. Just lovely.
On the other hand, should any of *your* dogs be ill-mannered,
untrained, unruly, etc., enough to jump up on another person, e.g., an
older person or child, in a way that could cause serious injury to
that person, you really shouldn't be surprised if someone sees fit to
get physical with *your* dog to get him to stop.
Mary Healey
news:1gnic4dk3e4ht6nc9...@4ax.com:
> On 11 Sep 2008 17:49:58 GMT, Mary Healey <ame...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Where I draw the line is people choosing to "correct" *my* dogs.
>
> Unfortunately, that's a straw man, because asshat though he may be, he
> was obviously referring to *his* dogs.
Wrong.
SteveB wrote:
>> I've broken many a dog from jumping up on me. The owner asks me,
>>"How come he doesn't jump on you and he jumps on everyone else?"
Either he's correcting other people's dogs, or he's talking to himself.
Maybe both?
>> I dont' tell him that when the dog jumped, I did the appropriate
>> thing and taught the dog myself, several with just one jump.
When asked to expand on "the appropriate thing", SteveB wrote:
>>I break a dog by timing a knee to the chest or a shin to the chest at
>>the moment he jumps up on me.
So, to sum up, SteveB not only corrects other people's dogs, he won't even
'fess up when the owner asks about it.
Handsome Jack Morrison
>Handsome Jack Morrison <handsomeja...@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:1gnic4dk3e4ht6nc9...@4ax.com:
>
>> On 11 Sep 2008 17:49:58 GMT, Mary Healey <ame...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Where I draw the line is people choosing to "correct" *my* dogs.
>>
>> Unfortunately, that's a straw man, because asshat though he may be, he
>> was obviously referring to *his* dogs.
>
>Wrong.
I stand corrected.
>SteveB wrote:
>>> I've broken many a dog from jumping up on me. The owner asks me,
>>>"How come he doesn't jump on you and he jumps on everyone else?"
>
>Either he's correcting other people's dogs, or he's talking to himself.
>Maybe both?
If the dog doesn't jump up on *him*, why would he need to correct the
dog?
But your point is taken.
Since Steve hasn't really wanted to discuss this topic further, we may
never know.
Personally, I think he's mostly talking to himself, but doesn't
understand how what he says here can be so easily misunderstood.
See below.
>>> I dont' tell him that when the dog jumped, I did the appropriate
>>> thing and taught the dog myself, several with just one jump.
>
>When asked to expand on "the appropriate thing", SteveB wrote:
>
>>>I break a dog by timing a knee to the chest or a shin to the chest at
>>>the moment he jumps up on me.
>
>So, to sum up, SteveB not only corrects other people's dogs, he won't even
>'fess up when the owner asks about it.
No, it's not that clear. At least it isn't that clear to me.
What exactly does he mean by "timing a knee to the chest"?
It's easy to understand why a person might raise his knee and fend off
a dog jumping up on him, yes, even pushing the dog over backwards.
If your dog were jumping up on someone (the average person), for
example, what exactly would you expect him or her (the average person)
to do to get the dog to stop?
So why would you want to get physical with the person being *jumped*
on (say, by a 100 pound Rottweiler) for defending him or herself from
perhaps injury by *your* dog?
Several regulars noted that they allow their dogs to jump up on people
(why, I do not know), and have never bothered to correct that
behavior. I guess they think it's cute, eh?
Why then, would they ever have a right to get physical with someone
who was only defending him or herself from *their* dog?
Many people are deathly afraid of dogs, so it shouldn't come as any
surprise to anyone here, that they might get physical with a dog who
jumped up on them.
The person to blame here, in *my* opinion, is not the person defending
him or herself from being mauled by *your* dog, but YOU, for allowing
(and even encouraging, by never correcting this ugly and dangerous
behavior) your dog to maul someone.
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
PROFESSED PROFESSIONAL OBEDIENCE TRAINER
to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE an DISCREDIT as a PATHETIC
MISERABLE STINKIN ROTTEN LIAR DOG ABUSER
COWARD FRAUD SCAM ARTIST and MENTAL CASE,
"Mary Healey" <ame...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9B16828B2343Aa...@130.133.1.4...
> sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore) wrote in news:gabi45$h87$1
> @panix2.panix.com:
>
>> ... his choice to get heavy-handed and physical with his dog
>
> Y'know, there's the general asshattery in doing stupid
> things with your own dog, and I respect that.
Oh? Oh, you mean LIKE THIS, mary??:
From: M Healey <the...@ames.com>
Date: 7 Sep 2008 23:37:49 GMT
Subject: Behold! The power of cheese
Duke, bless his Labby heart, got into chocolate chip
cookies and hot chocolate mix yesterday, and was
bouncier than a big red ball. We FLEW through
the Rally Novice B course; he decided about sign
4 that working *with* me was more fun than
working *against* me <g>.
I thought we were sloppy, but good Heavens, that dog
was happy! We scored a 98 (!) and the Amazing Sofa
Spud got 4th place and his first Rally Novice leg. Good
dog, Duke!
--
Mary H. and the restored Ames National Zoo:
The Right Reverand Sir Edgar "Lucky" Pan-Waffles
(retired); U-CD ANZ Babylon Ranger, CD, RA;
ANZ Pas de Duke; and rotund Rhia
> Sucks for the dog,
Yeah. HOWE abHOWET perry's a.k.a. bentcajungirl's
DEAD DOG Maggie who puked her bloody guts HOWET
on her kitchen floor after eatin Gorilly Glue or diddler's
EXXXPERTLY trained dogs, Tuck, Cappy an Danny
who've been HOWEspitalized MANY times for the
SAME PROBLEM, eh, mary??
> but they tend to be fairly adaptable creatures;
Yeah?
> tolerating an idiot owner
Naaaaah?
> is all in a day's work for many dogs.
NO, IT AIN'T SuppHOWESED to be, mary <{}: ~ ( >
From: Mary Healey <mhhea...@iastate.edu>
Date: 1998/03/27
Subject: Re: Crate question
Idahoans <idaho...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>...We have just gotten a mixed black lab puppy, 9 weeks old.
>She *hates* her crate. We put her in for 15 minutes, she cried
>for 15 minutes. We put her in for 30 minutes, she cried for 30
>minutes. This morning she was in it for about 45 minutes and
>cried for most of that time, with just a couple of short quiet periods.
And you rewarded her for those short quiet periods, yes?
> ... I gave her a treat as soon as she was in, and she ate it,
> but then immediately commenced whining.
"easy treats" just aren't as diverting as something that the puppy can
devote several minutes' attention to. Like putting peanut butter (just
a little!) in a Kong - it'll take several minutes to lick the Kong
clean. Buster Cubes are great, too, but a little difficult to operate
effectively in a crate.
And don't give up. Ranger, at a year old, hated being crated. He's
still not overly thrilled about staying in the crate, but a consistent
program of stuffed Kongs and biscuits has convinced him that
going into his crate is okay.
M.
------------------
> Where I draw the line is people choosing to "correct" *my* dogs.
Your dogs are PERFECT, ain't they, mary?:
"Sam ate the complete works of Charles Dickens, a heating pad,
a brand new pair of glasses, a baggie full of metal staples,
and a 3'x3' chunk of the kitchen linoleum. And the plugs off
many of the electrical appliances. And various personal bits
out of every pair of jeans and underwear I possessed."
"Sam started chasing cars at 10 weeks and never did stop."
Maybe you got a case of the cobbler's shoeless kids,
eh, PROFESSIONAL DOG TRAINER mary?:
"I use him as a demonstration dog in obedience classes.
Sam started chasing cars at 10 weeks and never did stop."
"He did learn to control himself,"
"He did learn to control himself,"
"He did learn to control himself,"
Sam is why I'm "allergic" to puppies, but also why I
adore obnoxious adolescent dawgs. I dragged him to
obedience class when he was 6 months old, he dragged
me to obedience class (and agility class, and clicker
training class, and seminars, and show-n-gos, and fun
matches) for the next 4 years.
The world is a safer place now for dirty underwear and
plastic baggies.
I can go back to leaving the laundry basket on the floor.
And the trash cans. And I can remove my watch and set it
down without finding bits of its little crystal carcass in
Sam's crate. I won't have to flush Sam out from under the
dinner table, or eat with hot dogbreath steaming up my leg.
Heck, I still have an ACD who adores all people (also
not "normal" breed behavior!), but he's very breed-
typical in his attempts to control and "police" the
behavior of other dogs.
when Sam was injured in a scrap with Ranger I chose to
treat him at home - without veterinary care. Cost *was*
a consideration. He lost part of one ear, with the usual
impressive spattering of gore."
You mean he was DOG AGGRESSIVE, don't you, mary <{}: ~ ( >
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> While neither of mine are likely to trigger the
> specific stupidity Steve espoused here,
You mean they won't jump on folks when they
attack their dogs and chase their cars, mary??
> who knows what other brands of medieval "training"
> he and his ilk might suddenly feel compelled to share
> with strangers?
Oh, you mean, maybe SUMPTHIN LIKE THIS, mary?:
-----------------------
Here again is pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
=====================
And P-A-T-I-E-N-T.
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
-------------------
SEE?
HERE'S HOWE COME:
HOWE COME would a EXXXPERT such as tommy set their
INFORMATIVE posts to EXXXPIRE in six days like matty
a.k.a. Rocky, diddler, elegy, meat terri a.k.a. dogsnuts, professora
melanie chang, marquis de "READ KOEHLER FOR CONTENT"
shaw and not so handsome not so gentle jackass, not even jack
morrison a.k.a. joe finnochiarrio a.k.a. BIG DADDY a.k.a.
DOGMAN??
Ooops~! That last anonymHOWES coward is tommy.
Is tommy EMBARRASSED by his own words, the lyin animal
murderin punk thug coward mental case fraud an SCAM ARTIST?
matty aka Rocky EXXXPLAINS HOWE COME:
"Rocky" <2d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote
For reasons I'll only explain privately, I've gone no
archive, and it's a shame. Once in a while, while
looking for something else, I'll run into an old post
of mine.
What an idiotic response!
Whoops.
-------------------
HERE'S THE FACTS, tommy:
"The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
Howell Book House, 1996"
Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking Backslider.
"If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will
continue to mess in the house. An indelible impression
can sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard
spanking of long duration, then leaving him tied by
the mess he's made so you can come back at twenty
minute intervals and punish him again for the same
thing. (Dogs are REALLY stupid. J.H.)
In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog,
as well as the house, if you really pour it on him."
"Housebreaking Problems:
"The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
Howell Book House, 1996"
Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment. Make certain he is equipped
with a collar and piece of line so he can't avoid
correction.
When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.
Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.
It is important to your future relationship that you
do not rush at him and start swinging before you get
hold of him.
When he's been spanked, take him outside. Chances
are, if you are careful in your feeding and close
observation, you will not have to do much punishing.
Be consistent in your handling.
To have a pup almost house-broken and then force
him to commit an error by not providing an opportunity
to go outside is very unfair. Careful planning will
make your job easier.
The same general techniques of housebreaking apply
to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the house.
For the grown dog who was reliable in the house and
then backslides, the method of correction differs
somewhat. In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.
The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation. The
fact that he once was reliable in the house is proof
that the dog knows right from wrong, and it leaves
you no other course than to punish him sufficiently
to convince him that the satisfaction of his
wrongdoing is not worth the consequences. If the
punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will
continue to mess in the house.
An indelible impression can sometimes be made
by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration,
then leaving him tied by the mess he's made so you
can come back at twenty minute intervals and punish
him again for the same thing.
In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment.
It will be better for your dog, as well as the house,
if you really pour it on him.
---------------------
AIN'T GOT NO AGENDAS HERE, SEE??
Here's tommy TRAININ dogs again:
Howell Book House," 1996 William Koehler
BARKING, WHINING, HOWLING,
YODELING, SCREAMING, AND WAILING
The fact that you realize you have such a problem makes it certain
you have "reproved" the dog often enough to let him know you were
against his sound effects, even though your reproving didn't quiet
them, so we'll bypass the loudly clapped hands, the cup of water in
his face, and the "shame-shames" and start with something more
emphatic.
We'll begin with the easiest kind of vocalist to correct: the one
that charges gates, fences, doors, and windows, barking furiously at
familiar or imaginary people and objects. A few clusters of BBs from
a good slingshot, in conjunction with the light line and plenty of
temptations, will cause such a dog to use his mind rather than his
mouth.
But you won't make the permanent impression unless you
supply dozens of opportunities for him to exercise the control he
thus acquires. Make sure these opportunities don't always come at
the same time of the day, else he may learn to observe the "quiet
hour" and pursue his old routines at other times.
With the help of the light line, it will be easy to follow the BBs
with a long down to make sure he gets the most from his lesson. As
was mentioned before, eliminating the senseless barking will not
lessen the dog's value as a watchdog but rather, as he grows more
discriminating, increase it.
The dog who vocalizes in bratty protest or lonesomeness because
you're gone constitutes a different problem. If it is impractical
for someone to stay with him constantly (there are owners who cater
to neurosis by employing dog sitters), you'll have to heed
the neighbors and the law and quiet the dog. This calls for a little
ingenuity as well as a heavy hand.
Attach a line to your dog's collar, so your corrective effort
doesn't turn into a footrace around the house until you reach a
stalemate under the bed. This use of the line in the correction will
also serve to establish it as a reminder to be quiet as the dog
drags it around when you're not present. Next, equip yourself with a
man's leather belt or a strap heavy enough to give your particular
dog a good tanning.
Yup-we're going to strike him. Real hard. Remember,
you're dealing with a dog who knows he should be quiet and
neighbors who have legal rights to see that he does.
Now leave, and let your fading footsteps tell the dog of your going.
When you've walked to a point where he'll think you're gone but
where you could hear any noises he might make, stop and listen. If
you find a comfortable waiting place on a nearby porch, be careful
not to talk or laugh. Tests show a dog's hearing to be many times as
sharp as yours.
When the noise comes, instead of trying to sneak up to the door so
you can barge in while he's still barking, which is generally
impossible, respond to his first sound with an emphatic bellow of
"out," and keep on bellowing as you charge back to his area.
Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt that you've
conveniently placed, and descend on him. He'll have no chance to
dodge if you grab the line and reel him in until his front feet are
raised off the floor or, if he's a big dog, until you've snubbed him
up with a hitch on something. While he's held in close, lay the
strap vigorously against his thighs.
Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it's the bitter end. A real
whaling now may cut down somewhat on the number of repeat
performances that will be necessary.
When you're finished and the dog is convinced that he is, put him on
a long down to think things over while you catch your breath. After
fifteen or twenty minutes, release him from the stay and leave the
area again.
So that you won't feel remorseful, reflect on the truth that a great
percentage of the barkers who are given away to "good homes" end
up in the kindly black box with the sweet smell. Personally, I've
always felt that it's even better to spank children, even if they
"cry out," than to "put them to sleep."
You might have a long wait on that comfortable porch before your
dog starts broadcasting again. When he does, let your long range
bellow tie the consequent correction to his first sound and repeat
the spanking, if anything emphasizing it a bit more.
It might be necessary to spend a Saturday or another day off so that
you'll have time to follow through sufficiently. When you have a
full day, you will be able to convince him each yelp will have a bad
consequence, and the consistency will make your job easier. If he
gets away with his concert part of the time, he'll be apt to gamble
on your inconsistency.
After a half dozen corrections, "the reason and the correction" will
be tied in close enough association so that you can move in on him
without the preliminary bellowing of "out." From then on, it's just
a case of laying for the dog and supplying enough bad
consequences of his noise so he'll no longer feel like gambling.
Occasionally, there is a dog who seems to sense that you're hiding
nearby and will utter no sound. He also seems to sense when you
have really gone away, at least according to the neighbors. Maybe
his sensing actually amounts to close observation. He could be
watching and listening for the signs of your actual going.
Make a convincing operation of leaving, even if it requires changing
clothes and being unusually noisy as you slam the doors on the
family car and drive away. Arrange with a friend to trade cars a
block or two from your house so you can come back and park within
earshot without a single familiar sound to tell the dog you've
returned. A few of these car changes are generally enough to fool
the most alert dog.
Whether your dog believes you are gone anytime you step out of the
house or requires the production of changing clothes and driving
off, keep working until even your neighbors admit the dog has
reformed. If there has been a long history of barking and whining,
it sometimes requires a lot of work to make a dog be quiet when
you're not around, so give the above method an honest try before
you presume your dog requires a more severe correction.
"The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962).
New York: Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."
Hanging
"First, the trainer makes certain that the collar and leash are more
than adequate for any jerk or strain that the dog's most frantic
actions could cause. Then he starts to work the dog deliberately and
fairly to the point where the dog makes his grab. Before the teeth
have reached their target, the dog, weight permitting, is jerked from
the ground. As in coping with some of the afore-mentioned problems
the dog is suspended in mid-air.
However, to let the biting dog recover his footing while he still had
the strength to renew the attack would be cruelty. The only justifiable
course is to hold him suspended until he has neither the strength nor
inclination to renew the fight. When finally it is obvious that he is
physically incapable of expressing his resentment and is lowered to
the ground, he will probably stagger loop-legged for a few steps,
vomit once or twice, and roll over on his side. The sight of a dog
lying, thick-tongued, on his side, is not pleasant, but do not let it
alarm you
THE REAL "HOOD"
"If your dog is a real "hood" who would regard the foregoing types
of protest as "kid stuff" and would express his resentment of your
efforts by biting, your problem is difficult -- and pressing.
"Professional trainers often get these extreme problems. Nearly
always the "protest biter" is the handiwork of a person who, by
avoiding situations that the dog might resent, has nurtured the seeds
of rebellion and then cultivated the resultant growth with under
correction.
When these people reap their inevitable and oftentimes
painful harvest, they are ready to avail themselves of "the cruel
trainer" whose advice they may have once rejected because it was
incompatible with the sugary droolings of mealy-mouthed columnists,
breed-ring biddies, and dog psychologists who, by the broken skins
and broken hearts their misinformation causes, can be proven guilty of
the greatest act of cruelty to animals since the dawn of time.
"With more genuine compassion for the biting dog than would ever be
demonstrated by those who are "too kind" to make a correction and
certainly with more disregard for his safety, the professional trainer
morally feels obligated to perform a "major operation."
"Since we are presently concerned with the dog that bites in
resentment of the demands of training, we will set our example in that
situation. (In a later chapter we will deal with the with the much
easier problem of the dog that bites someone other than his master."
------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Here's lyin DOGDUMMY BEATIN a dog to HOWEsbreak IT:
<handsomemorri...@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:spb3ivgh7prvq9omh...@4ax.com...
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
kris_br...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Good books huh?
Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.
> Which idea was your favorite, the one where they
> tell you to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,
There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog
(i.e., it *can* and *does* work in *some* situations).
Unfortunately, most people either do it incorrectly, do
it at the wrong time, etc.
> or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard
> enough if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within
> 5 minutes of his punishment?
If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after careful
evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get it over with
quickly than it is to do it incrementally and half-
heartedly, which usually only invites the need for even
more discipline.
> Maybe you liked when they recommend these
> beatings for housebreaking accidents, chewing /
> destructive behavior, stealing, trying to get on
> your bed at night and dog on dog aggression.
At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating
a dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin
does *not* constitute a "beating."
I'm sorry if you don't agree.
And each of those behavior "problems" needs
to be looked at in its proper context.
A quote from the Monks:
"We repeat, these situations may merit physical
discipline. Since no book can pretend to analyze
every individual dog and situation, we feel obligated
to emphasize from the outset that discipline is never
an arbitrary training technique to be applied to each
and every dog for all offenses. We do, however, believe
that physical and verbal discipline can be an effective
technique.
The best policy if you experience any of the above
problems is to consult a qualified trainer or veterinarian
or evaluation of your individual situation....
"If discipline is decided upon as a training technique,
it should be the proper technique. We feel we have
developed several methods that depend less on violent
physical force than timing, a flair for drama, and the
element of surprise.
We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to map
out these methods, rather than simply skip the topic
because it is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know
what to do."
In other words, physical discipline is reserved for those
serious, special occasions when other methods have failed.
For example, they do not recommend using physical
discipline for *routine* housebreaking chores -- only
on those rare occasions when an already reliably
housebroken dog is (after careful evaluation) deemed
to be soiling the house on purpose, backsliding, etc.
I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an adult dog
was brought to me as an *incurable* house-soiler. It
was either get the dog reliably housetrained or the dog
was going on a one way trip to the pound.
Being the kind, compassionate trainer that I am, I
was prepared to do whatever it took to get this dog
house-trained and save his life.
After several weeks of more or less traditional training,
and to poor result, I brought out the big guns -- physical
and verbal discipline. Whenever the dog soiled the house
(no, you don't even have to catch him in the act), I
immediately (but very calmly) tossed a leash on his collar,
dragged him to the scene of the crime, and (using a large
chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the chair, with
his nose about two inches away from the poop. After a
couple of swats on the rump, some loud vocalizing, and a
wait of about 20 minutes, I'd release the dog and then
ignore him for a while. I had to repeat this process *three*
times, I think -- and the house-soiling miraculously
stopped. The dog went home to enjoy a long and contented
life with his original owners, and I got to feel good about
myself.
So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for novices.
Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
-- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove
the detonator to reply via e-mail
BWEEEAAAAHAAAAHAAAA~!~!~!
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsomemorri...@thedetonatorearthlink.net>
wrote in message
news:a236iv0ngp58gv9jm...@4ax.com...
> On 26 Jul 2003 22:14:29 GMT, dogstar...@aol.com
>(DogStar716) wrote:
> >>> Never mind dogman :)
> >> You too? Some folks just never learn.
>
>>>> Uh huh :)
>
>>> One of the signs of mental illness
>>> is to say "Uh huh" a lot.
>
>> PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't on this
>> list, he (or she) is NOT an approved Koehler trainer, no
>> matter how loud you scream otherwise.
>
> May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be
> on a list to use Koehlers methods or teach his methods.
> Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you that
> not every trainer who uses a leash is a *Koehler* trainer.
> Sheesh.
>
> This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but
> if she's hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about
> as far from a Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can
> possibly be.
>
> Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.
> I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
> adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.
> >http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/patoflearn.html
> Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware
> that whoever wrote it knows nothing about PR
> based training:
> "Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend
> in Positive Reinforcement Only training systems"
> You cannot use PR only.
Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and many
other places as well) *claim* that they use nothing but R.
You know, the PPers.
And they do it quite loudly, too.
Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as ignorant?
Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.
And if you knew anything about PR BASED training,
you would realize that. It's not all cookies and babytalk.
There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome
Jack Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool
in my bag, including R-, P, and P-, because I know
that even R has its limits.
You'd know that too, if you didn't
have your head in the sand.
> But that seems to be the battle cry of the Koehler-ites.
The Koehlerites have no battle cry.
They have behaviorism on their side, and
that's more than enough.
> I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs
> a proper leash correction as I do not rely on a
> leash to control or teach my dog.
That may or may not be suitable for your needs,
but it's not suitable for the majority of dog owners,
especially since the advent of leash laws.
Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler
training, Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in
need of a leash.
*(THAT'S HOWE COME tommy
SELLS SHOCK COLLARS)
That you apparently don't know that, once again
shows me just how ignorant of anything to do with
Koehler you are.
My last two dogs have been trained offleash right
from the start, using rewards for what I like, and
nothing for what I don't like.
Good for you, and if that level of training is good enough
for you, fine. But it's not good enough for many of the
rest of us.
> Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.
I really have no idea what you're saying anymore, because
you apparently know so damn little about Koehler and
behavioral principles in general that it's hard to have an
informed discussion with you.
PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to
keep denying that those certain harsh methods are only
for LAST RESORT situations, intended only to SAVE
A DOG'S LIFE, even after I've repeatedly given you
direct *quotes* from Koehler's book saying just that.
It's like you don't even care how stupid people think
you are, or how devious you are, etc. That can't help
your cause any.
You'd think that you'd at least want to
*appear* to be honest, even if you're not. -
- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator
to reply via e-mail
--------------
>> Help us, Mike, by closing the door on him again (by putting him in
>> your kill file and/or refraining from replying to any of his posts),
>> otherwise you're going to end up in the attic, too.
Ask tommy his kennel name, mikey?:
"Dogman" <dog...@i1.net> wrote in message
news:dr60ts4q1kk0r5h0a...@4ax.com...
And since I have repeatedly *denied* being either Tommy
Sorensen, Tommy Sorenson, Joe Finocchiaro, Joey
Finocchare, Joe Finocchiro, and a host of other people that
*you* have accused me of being, just who the hell do you
suppose would end up getting sued, you stupid little
dweeb?
Me? Or you?
> Because I've discreditied YOU.
Where exactly did you do that, little man?
Where????????
BWAHAHAHAHA!
Maybe inside that demented little brain of yours, but nowhere else.
And until you're prepared to walk the walk and not just talk the talk,
"everyone" here will know you for what you really are.
A two-bit P-H-O-N-Y.
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
HOWE COME tommy won't tell us his kennel name is sorensen's
Retrievers and SHOCK COLLAR SALES and his address and
phone #'s?:
From: A Real American <u...@usa.com>
Date: 2000/10/11
Subject: Re: Walking with Prong Collar
In case anyone was wondering who the anonymous poster
known as Dogman actually is, it is
Tom Sorenson of
Sorenson Kennels
(314) 828-5149
1073 Hwy DD
Defiance, MO
63341-1707
If you are offended by the language and the nastiness, please drop
him and his wife Kay a note or give them a call. You may also use
the ab...@i1.net route.
I will be reposting this information whenever I feel like it.
Uncle Sam
--------------------
As a matter of FACT we DID speak on
the phone, didn't we, tommy <{}: ~ ) >
>> --
>> Jack "Crackpot" Morrison
>
> Nice extended metaphor, and right you are.
INDEED? Then HOWE COME tommy is a lyin
dog abusin anonymHOWES COWARD, mikey?:
Newsgroups: comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows
From: Tom Sorensen <j...@i1.net>
Date: 2000/07/21
Subject: Help! Installed 4.3.2 over 4.2 and lost Personalities
Signatures, Mailboxes, etc.
I recently installed 4.3.2 over 4.2 and in the process, I have
somehow lost my access to Personalities, Signatures, Mailboxes,
etc.
Well, initially when I hit the Personalities button(after installing
the new version), a box appeared on the left, where it's supposed
to appear, but nothing was there! No Personalities, no nothing.
Same thing for Mailboxes, etc. I tried dragging the divider to the
left (as I thought the Help file instructed), but now I've apparently
drug it so far left that I can't get it to drag to the right again.
That is, I can't get it to open up again.
Now I can't use the Personalities, Mailbox, and Signature buttons
at all, making it very difficult for me to send messages.
I manage several busy mail lists and need HELP ASAP!
Thanks in advance for any help you care to offer me.
Tom Sorensen
j...@i1.net
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
-----------------------
From: dogman @i1.net (Joe Finocchiaro)
Date: 1996/12/04
Subject: Re: I AM JOINING P.E.T.A.
From: dogman @i1.net (Joe Finocchiaro)
Date: 1996/12/02
Subject: Re: Support for first-time puppy owners
From: dogman @i1.net (Dogman)
Date: 1999/02/11
Subject: Re: Pussyman
Upon my return to the Cuckoo's Nest,
Thu, 11 Feb 1999 00:46:51 GMT, incognit...@angelfire.com says:
[...]
>> Hey Joey!!!!! Marshall has tracked you down to your den!!!
>> This is, what, the 5th time?
No, I make it the sixth, but then I'm not counting.
And it's still the wrong den, wrong wolf.
But who cares?
He's a freakin' professor, eh?
He's the very reason that S.A.T. scores have to
be "adjusted" every freakin' year.
>> Robert
> Hypothetical question for Robert Crim and Joe Finocchiaro.
> As the newsgroups self described tough guys (to your enemies)
> and nice guys (to the innocent), how would you respond to a
> posting of your complete addresses and phone numbers?
What kind of question is that???????
Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez.
They get weirder and weirder here by the day...
Hey, schmuckface, either say something about DOGS, or GO AWAY, eh?
> Would you welcome any challenge, or protect the innocent, by
> acknowledging the accuracy of the posted information? That
> information, in fact, is readily available from a simple DejaNews
> and Yahoo search.
> Would you "walk the talk
Yo!
Stick it in your ear, eh?
And then keep sticking it in there until you come to your freakin'
senses.
Geeeeeeeeez.
--
Dogman
dog...@i1.net
---------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
SteveB
"Shelly" <she...@cat-sidh.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9B167F2F8B817...@85.214.90.236...
> "SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote in
> news:1lhnp5-...@news.infowest.com:
>
>> Since you chose NOT to post the relevant passages in context, I
>> cannot respond.
>
> And yet, you did.
>
> --
> Shelly
Simply put: your wit and intellect elude me.
Shelly
@news.infowest.com:
> Simply put:
I could hardly expect anything else.
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
not so happy, not so gentle, not so manly, jackass,
not even jack morrison aka joey finnochiarrio aka
howie lipshitz aka BIG DADDY aka DOGMAN,
a.k.a. PUSSYMAN, you pathetic miserable stinkin
anonymHOWES malignant maliciHOWES lyin dog
child an spHOWES abusing punk thug coward active
accute chronic life long incurable mental case and
paranoid homophobe, misogynist, puppy miller and
shock collar salesman,
"Handsome Jack Morrison" <handsomeja...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:29nic4tdddf21cm04...@4ax.com...
KERCHING~!
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:37:10 +0000 (UTC), Shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net>
> wrote:
KERCHING~!
>>sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore) wrote in news:gabi45$h87$1
>>@panix2.panix.com:
KERCHING~!
THREE pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
animal abusin mental cases in a RHOWE~!
***~!JACKASSPOT~!***
>>> I'm sure his fellow conservatives are endlessly
>>> grateful that he explained his ignorance of basic
>>> behavioral theory
Pot.
Kettle.
Black.
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
***~!JACKASSPOT~!***
>>> and his choice to get heavy-handed and physical
>>> with his dog by posting that he's conservative.
SteveB an tommy are responsible PARENTS <{}: ~ ) >
>>Maybe "Jack" will set him straight?
Oh, INDEEDY~!
HOWEver, there AIN'T NO "Jack" here.
> Yes, "Jack" set him straight.
"Jack"??
Here's the pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
anonymHOWES coward, not so handsome, not so
gentle, not so manly, not so happy jackass, not even
morrison aka dogman a.k.a. BIG DADDY, a.k.a.
tommy sorenson:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use a little
"knee action," that is, as the dog goes charging by
you, just give the dog a little bop with your knee
and shin.
Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
-----------------------
>>Or maybe they'll find that they're kindred souls?
INDEED?
Oh, you mean on accHOWENTA STUFF like THIS?:
Here again is pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
anonymHOWES coward, not so handsome, not so
gentle, not so manly, not so happy jackass, not even
morrison aka dogman a.k.a. BIG DADDY, a.k.a.
tommy sorenson:
From: dog...@i1.net (Dogman) Date: 1997/11/11
Subject: Re: Koehler's Usefulness--A Concluding Assessment
This, from a yellow-bellied coward who has TOTALLY refused
to engage me in debate, preferring mudslinging, hyperbole, distortion,
lies, exaggeration, and to take Koehler completely out of context,
instead.
What lying hypocrites these hand-wringers are!
The most consistent argument among Koehler's defenders is based
on a questionable assumption that such "drastic" measures are
effective in "extreme" cases where other methods fail.
------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> <sigh>
Hmmm. Seems tommys havin some OCD symptoms again <{}: ~ ( >
LIKE THIS:
Here again is pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
anonymHOWES coward, not so handsome, not so
gentle, not so manly, not so happy jackass, not even
morrison aka dogman a.k.a. BIG DADDY, a.k.a.
tommy sorenson:
"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens
At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating."
=====================
"Swatting a dog on the nose is
always the wrong thing to do."
SEE?
> After all these years here, do you really think that's true?
That's curiHOWES.
"Jack" came in when DOGMAN left in shame an disgrace <{}: ~ ( >
HOWE COME would a EXXXPERT such as tommy set their
INFORMATIVE posts to EXXXPIRE in six days like matty
a.k.a. Rocky, diddler, elegy, meat terri a.k.a. dogsnuts, professora
melanie chang, marquis de "READ KOEHLER FOR CONTENT"
shaw and not so handsome not so gentle jackass, not even jack
morrison a.k.a. joe finnochiarrio a.k.a. BIG DADDY a.k.a.
DOGMAN??
Ooops~! That last anonymHOWES coward is tommy.
Is tommy EMBARRASSED by his own words, the lyin animal
murderin punk thug coward mental case fraud an SCAM ARTIST?
matty aka Rocky EXXXPLAINS HOWE COME:
"Rocky" <2d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote
For reasons I'll only explain privately, I've gone no
archive, and it's a shame. Once in a while, while
looking for something else, I'll run into an old post
of mine.
What an idiotic response!
Whoops.
-------------------
LIKE THIS:
Me? Or you?
Where????????
BWAHAHAHAHA!
Uncle Sam
--------------------
> Back only a few days, and already you're stirring up the shit.
Seems "Jack" likes to play grabbass with shelly an malinda <{}: ~ ( >
> What a dirtbag.
Yup. Same DOGMAN, wouldn't you agree?:
> <spit>
Better get that OCD behavior looked into, eh, jack?
Here's HOWE I like to teach children not to spit in pubic:
And P-A-T-I-E-N-T.
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
-------------------
SEE?
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> Good books huh?
BWEEEAAAAHAAAAHAAAA~!~!~!
> >http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/patoflearn.html
--------------
"Housebreaking Problems:
---------------------
Hanging
THE REAL "HOOD"
------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Date: 1999/01/20
Laura in Oslo
Quote laura:
The listener,
Quote laura:
the observer.
INDEEDY!
RIGHT...
LIKE THIS:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
=====================
<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>
Robert Crim writes:
>Terri
============
SEE?
tommy sez:
> Sucker.
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAA~!~!~!
AND LIKE THIS:
Subject: Sad news (Samson)
I owed him that.
-------------
Goodbye.
--
Steve Walker
-----------------
Naaaaah??
QUOTE FROM lyingdogDUMMY:
Come on, John.
I hope not.
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
SEE?
AND LIKE THIS:
Subject: Re: RIP Teena 1999 - 2004
"Handsome Jack Morrison" <me10...@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in
message news:p8sn1093e89a5202r...@4ax.com...
> On 31 Jan 2004 17:48:39 GMT, KWBrown arfenarfSPAMBL...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> Well.
> She tried to take a bite out of our trainer, and that was that.
> Teena the ESS made her last trip to the vet and, I hope,
> sleeps more peacefully than she has in years.
I'm very sorry to hear that, Kate.
But going by the information you posted here about her,
you had no choice.
Godspeed, Teena.
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
Hello Dogdirtforbirdbrains,
mike d.
scratches with them. She is a block head of a dog, and she doesn't listen to
shit- and i ain't gonna hit her to try to see if that works, so I end up
just keeping my distance from that dog. It's a shame, personally, i think
pitbulls as a breed are a mistake which should either be bred out of
existence or seriously bred to improve them and make them useful for
something besides a half-ass companion dog which cannot always be trusted to
behave.. Mike.
"Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory"
<Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Foren...@HotMail.Com>
wrote in message news:gCWwk.23675$IB6....@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
> HOWEDY SteveB,
>
> You wouldn't happen to be Steve Boyer, the ONLY
> pathetic miserable stinkin rotten animal murderin
> mental case PROFESSIONAL dog trainer here who
> AIN'T been bagged for LYIN, would you?
>
> news:02hbp5-...@news.infowest.com...
>
>
> Dogs jump on folks to GREET them an MHOWETH
> them as BONDING behaviors <{}: ~ ) >
>
> SOME EXXXPERT PROFESSIONAL TRAINERS like
> Kevin Behan and his students LeeCharlesKelley an Canis55
> a.k.a. DEAMON CHILD TRAIN their dogs to jump up to
> greet them to CAPITALIZE on dogs NATURAL BONDING
> BEHAVIOR <{}: ~ ) >
>
>> The owner asks me, "How come he doesn't jump on you and he jumps on
>> everyone else?"
>
>
>> I dont' tell him that when the dog jumped, I did the appropriate thing
>
>
> Here's a other pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
> anonymHOWES coward, not so handsome, not so
> gentle, not so manly, not so happy jackass, not even
> morrison aka dogman a.k.a. BIG DADDY, a.k.a.
> tommy sorenson:
>
> "I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
> not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use a little
> "knee action," that is, as the dog goes charging by
> you, just give the dog a little bop with your knee
> and shin.
>
> Yep, really lean into it.
>
> Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
> make her think twice about rushing past you again -
> - which is exactly what you want her to do.
>
> Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
>
> If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
>
> When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
> abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
> scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
> worry about her "over-reacting."
>
> I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
> for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
> needs *more* of it."
>
>
>
>> I just say, "I guess he doesn't like me."
>
> fellHOWE dog lover pals here, SteveB:
>
> Here again is pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
> anonymHOWES coward, not so handsome, not so
> gentle, not so manly, not so happy jackass, not even
> morrison aka dogman a.k.a. BIG DADDY, a.k.a.
> tommy sorenson:
>
> "My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
> And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
> to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
> I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
>
> A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
>
> Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
> if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
> When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
> have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
> really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
> good citizens
>
> At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
> dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
> *not* constitute a "beating."
>
> =====================
>
> Date: 1999/01/15
> Subject: Re: Another mouthy lab
>
> Get this book:
>
> "The Art of Raising A Puppy," by the Monks of New Skete
>
> If you can't find it locally, you can obtain it
> through my Web site (see below).
>
> You'll need it for more than just the usual puppy
> "mouthing" problems, anyway.
>
> And good luck with your Lab puppy!
> --
>
> Dogman
>
> ------------------------
>
> And here's WON of his SUCCESS STORIES~!:
>
> From: osi...@deltaville.net (Michael Erskine)
> Date: 12 Aug 2004 10:09:05 -0700
>
> Subject: My GSD bit me.
> The question:
>
> I have a four year old male GSD. He growls
> at me sometimes. When he growls at me he
> stares me in the face and lays his ears back.
>
> The New Skete books say that the dog should not be
> allowed to do that. They suggest shaking down the
> dog by grabing the dog on the sides of his neck and
> picking him off his front feet, then giving the dog the
> same sort of treatment the dog would give another if
> it were challenging him.
>
> Namely getting in the dogs face and letting
> the dog know you are the alpha dog.
>
> Well, my dog bit me clearly he felt that I was not
> convincing enough or he bit me out of fear.
>
> Anyone got ideas on what to do with this dog that might
> help him to decide that he wants to follow and that he
> has nothing to fear from me?
>
> ----------------------
>
> From: Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com>
> Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 17:21:14 GMT
> Subject: Re: My GSD bit me.
>
> You need to improve your acting skills. Get a werewolf
> suit with blood-drenched fangs and claw gloves and THEN
> go after your dog.
>
> Knock the shit out of him and don't be afraid to crack
> some ribs. Then yank the mask off and shout "SURPRISE!
> IT'S ME!" I guarantee you and your dog will have a new
> relationship based on mutual respect.
>
> Keep in mind that the monks of New Skete
> were pre-Lon-Chaney.
>
> Charlie
>
> -----------------------
>
>> Funny, at the time,
>
> Yeah?
>
> You mean LIKE THIS?:
>
>
>> Steve
>
> Welcome to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
> Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child,
> Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey
> SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method
> Manual Forums And Human And Animal Behavior Forensic
> Sciences Research Laboratory.
>
> I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
> Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
> Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey,
> Trainin an Research <{}'; ~ ) >
>
> I've got forty five years of EXXXPERIENCE raising
> and training mostly giant breed working dogs for families
> and security specializing in temperament and behavior
> problems and protection <{}: ~ ) >
>
> Here's your own FREE COPY of The Sincerely Incredibly
> Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
> Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES,
> INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
> Training Method Manual:
> http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard/777witsendmanual.htm
>
> The actual INSTRUCTION begins on the third page "*777*
> Wits' End Method", abHOWET 1/4 down the page starting
> with "Here's ALL the INFORMATION you NEED" and my
> phone # and instructions to CALL ANY TIME.
>
> There you will find ALL the FREE information you need
> to pupperly handle raise and train your pets and family.
> Just follow the instructions PRECISELY and ASK me if
> you need any additional FREE HEELP <{}': ~ ) >
>
> You'll likeWIZE find ETHICAL nutrition and heelth
> care practices taught on the heelth page *(last link
> on the left side) of my website.
>
> From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
> To: "The Puppy Wizard"
> <ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
>
> Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
> Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
>
> I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
> and now must applaud your attempts to save
> animals from painful training procedures.
>
> You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
> who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
> alert the world to animal abuse.
>
> We are lucky to have you, and more people should
> come to their senses and support your valuable
> work.
>
> Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
> charity to fund your important work?
>
> Have you thought about holding a press conference
> so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
> and significant work?
>
> In closing, my only suggestion is that you
> try to keep your messages short for most
> readers may refuse to read a long message
> even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
> I wish you well in your endeavors.
>
> --Marshall Dermer
>
> "The day may come when the rest of
> the animal creation
> may acquire those right
> which never could have been withholden from them
> but by the hand of tyranny.
>
> The question is not can they REASON,
> nor can they TALK,
> but can they SUFFER?" -
> - Jeremy Bentham
>
> "A Cheerful Heart Is Good Medicine, But
> A Crushed Spirit Dries Up The Bones,"
> Proverbs 17:22
>
> Disciple Paulie Sez:
>
> "No One Understands How Wits End Training
> Really Works; They Assume It's All Nicey Nicey
> And don't Realise It's A Very Disciplined Method
> That Deals With Any Situation And The Foundation
> Is Built On Trust And Understanding.
>
> I've never forced my dogs to do anything,
> I tell them they are good dogs and they
> seem to follow me, onceI told them they
> were bad dogs and they ran away from me,
> now I only ever tell them they are good dogs
> and they always are, always.
>
> Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and say
> "good dog" sincerely at the end of the request and
> I bet you'll find your dog thinking then responding
> everytime.
>
> A Bit Of Respect Works Wonders,
> The Same Rule Applies
> To Every Aspect Of
> The Relationship With Your Dog.
>
> Obedience And Affection Are Not Related,
> if They Were Everyone Would Have
> Obedient Dogs.
>
> I Have Found Giving Dogs "Payment" In Advance i.e.
> "Sam sit goodboy" Makes The Dogs WANT TO RESPOND,
> After All, All Dogs Want To Be "Good Dogs" And If
> You Tell Them They Are Good Then They Feel An
> Obligation To Obey Your Request.
>
> Telling Sam He's A Good Dog AFTER He Sit's
> Apart From Being Too Late Is Also A Gamble
> Because If He Doesn't Sit Then There's No
> Positive Interaction.
>
> Paul
>
> -------------------------
>
> ANY QUESTIONS, People?
>
> "Ye shall know the truth,
> and the truth shall make you mad." -
> ~Aldous Huxley.
>
> All Truth Passes Through Three Stages.
> First, It Is Ridiculed.
> Second, It Is Violently Opposed.
> Third, It Is Accepted As Being Self-Evident
> -Arthur Schopenhauer-
>
> "Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
> even tho it's a hopeless task,
> in this system of things.
> As long as man is ruling man,
> there will be animals (and humans!)
> abused and neglected. :-(
> Your student," Juanita.
>
> "If you've got them by the balls their
> hearts and minds will follow,"
> John Wayne.
>
> "Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
> "Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain!"
> -Friedrich Schiller.
>
> INDEEDY.
>
> AND THAT'S HOWE COME THEY GOT ME NHOWE!
>
> In Love And Light,
> I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours
> The WORLD'S CRUELEST Trainer,
> Jerry Howe,
> The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
> *M-A-J-E-S-T-I-C*
> *G-R-A-N-D*
> *M-A-S-T-E-R*
> Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Ferret, Goat, Monkey
> SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ;~ ) >
>
> HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >
>
> Sincerely,
> Jerry Howe,
> Director of Research,
> Human And Animal Behavior
> Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
> BIOSOUND Scientific,
> Director of Training,
> Wits' End Dog Training
> 1611 24th St
> Orlando, FL 32805
> Phone: 1-407-425-5092 (Call ANY TIME)
> http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard
>
> E-mail:
>
> Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
> @HotMail.Com
>
> Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
> @HotMail.Com
>
> TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard @HotMail.Com
>
> MSN, AT&T Or AIM Messenger @:
> TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard @HotMail.Com
> ThePuppyWizard @BellSouth.Net
>
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
"mike d." <mik...@nospamcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:bomdneZ7f5CxPlfV...@comcast.com...
> my neighbors female pitbull has long claws
The remedy for THAT, is TRIMMING <{}: ~ ) >
LIKE THIS:
From: BNTDOBES @aol.com
To: jho...@bellsouth.net
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: THANKS ALISON! - "Owners Should Always
Be Given The Cold, Hard Facts: They Should NEVER FEEL
GUILTY For Having An Aggressive Dog Euthanized."
Dear Jerry,
It's Kay here. I don't know who these people are that
maligning you and your training manual but tell them
from me that it does work.
Hunter is just doing so well even the people who advocated
putting him down are impressed with him.
I even started using it with the neighbor's dog. I went over
there to help her cut his nails. She started yelling at him
for growling at me. I told her to tell him what a good boy he
is instead. Lo and behold he stopped growling and I could
do his nails.
All 4 feet.
My dog Hunter was trained with the old jerk and pull method
and my other dog was trained with treats. Hunter has gotten
his enthusiasm back for his training and I couldn't be more
pleased.
He even tried to kiss a child the other day.
Major break through.
This is the dog that a few months ago tried to eat the kids
through the fence. I can now take him in the car with me
again without him trying to chase cars through the windshield.
So Jerry tell these people that the first rule of dog training
is Do No Harm.
The 2nd rule is whatever works without breaking the first
rule.
Aggressive dogs don't need to be put down. Hunter was
diagnosed aggressive and he is going to stay alive and
by my side where he belongs.
Thank you so much.
Kay
-----------------
SEE?
> and she jumps on you and scratches with them.
NO PROBLEMO, mikdan7~!
ALL temperament and behavior problems are CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING, therefore they CAN BE EXXXTINGUISHED
NEARLY INSTANTLY simply by DOIN EVERY THING
EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE you PREFER.
> She is a block head of a dog,
You mean she's HOWEtwitted you, mikdan7 <{}: ~ ( >
> and she doesn't listen to shit-
You mean you BLAME THE DOG for *you* not knowin
HOWE to pupperly handle raise an train a dog, mikdan7 <{}: ~ ( >
> and i ain't gonna hit her to try to see if that works,
That's KINDLY of you, mikdan7 <{}'; ~ ) >
> so I end up just keeping my distance from that dog.
You COULD EXXXTINGUISH the jumpin behavior
NEARLY INSTANTLY simply by PRAISING IN
ADVANCE and briefly, variably, alternately, non
physically distracting and INSTANTLY PRAISING
for five to fifteen seconds <{}: ~ ) >
> It's a shame, personally,
INDEEDY <{}: ~ ( >
> i think pitbulls as a breed are a mistake
You mean on accHOWENTA you don't know HOWE
to pupperly handle raise an train them, like your pals
here, mikdan7?
> which should either be bred out of existence or seriously bred to improve
> them and make them useful for something besides a half-ass
> companion dog which cannot always be trusted
> to behave.. Mike.
That's ABSURD, mike <{}: ~ ( >
unsurrea...@yahoo.com
> "Handsome Jack Morrison" <handsomejackmorri...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:29nic4tdddf21cm04...@4ax.com...
>
> KERCHING~!
>
> > On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:37:10 +0000 (UTC), Shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net>
> > wrote:
>
> KERCHING~!
>
> >>sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore) wrote in news:gabi45$h87$1
> >>@panix2.panix.com:
>
> KERCHING~!
>
> THREE pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
> animal abusin mental cases in a RHOWE~!
>
> ***~!JACKASSPOT~!***
That wasn't funny the first time, AssCoward - do you think by
repeating it it will become funny and clever?
SteveB
> "SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote in news:7k5pp5-jkt1.ln1
> @news.infowest.com:
>
>> Simply put:
>
> I could hardly expect anything else.
>
> --
> Shelly
It is important to be able to communicate. Even if one has to lower their
vocabulary and presentation style to do so.
Steve
SteveB
I apologize. This should have definitely been top posted, and I recommend
this as the poster child in favor of top posting.
I don't have much to say, just wanted to repost hundreds of lines, then come
in with a short retort.
Give the bitch a knee in the chest, trying with all your might to have her
land on the back of that massive skull. You won't hurt her.
Ah, killed two birds with one stone. In favor of knee to the chest thing,
and in favor of killfiling lunatics who overpost.
Steve
Steve
FurPaw
> I don't have much to say,
Really???
just wanted to repost hundreds of lines,
You just feel free to do that any time. All of us who have
killfiled the loon secretly enjoy having his schizophrenic brain
droppings grace our screens. [Psst - Could you hand me the
Windex and a roll of paper towels?]
> then come
> in with a short retort.
You could even have omitted this - all we wanted was to read the
loon!
> Give the bitch a knee in the chest, trying with all your might to have her
> land on the back of that massive skull. You won't hurt her.
Yeah, you ROCK, Steverino! You tell 'em! Way to go! Beat that
bitch to death for sullying your wardrobe!
> Ah, killed two birds with one stone. In favor of knee to the chest thing,
> and in favor of killfiling lunatics who overpost.
>
> Steve
I kind of favor killfiling some lunatics who underpost.
FurPaw
--
The plural of anecdote is not proof.
To reply, unleash the dog.
Paul E. Schoen
"SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote in message
You might as well give up trying to have a civilized discussion with
Shelly, or Melinda for that matter, (and a few others). They are basically
unhappy women who do not like men very much, and get a kick out of making
snide remarks. The "clique" of "mean girls" has identified you as a target,
as you have not shown them proper homage and subservience to their
perceived superiority, and most of the others will go along with their
proclamations. They also have difficulty reading for actual content, and
will often just identify isolated parts of a post to criticise.
I do not fully agree with your method of correcting dogs for jumping, but
in extreme cases it may be justified, and in general, whatever works is OK,
as long as it does not cause more injury to the dog than what he might
inflict on you.
Paul and Muttley
Shelly
news:t5drp5-...@news.infowest.com:
> It is important to be able to communicate.
Yes, well...
> Even if one has to lower their vocabulary and presentation style
> to do so.
One? Their? And what the hell does lowering one's vocabulary
*mean*?
Melinda Shore
Shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net> wrote:
>One? Their? And what the hell does lowering one's vocabulary
>*mean*?
Its (the phrase "lower one's vocabulary) connotation is
somewhat akin to putting a window sticker for a really
terrible university on your car.
Shelly
@panix2.panix.com:
> Its (the phrase "lower one's vocabulary) connotation is
> somewhat akin to putting a window sticker for a really
> terrible university on your car.
In that case, I would expect that one's vocabulary would probably be
"low" to start with. Aieee!
ObDogs: We still apparently do not know how to move with a cone on
our head. I popped it on Harriet before leaving for about 30 minutes
this morning, and came home to find her sitting and shivering
(there's that elusive woe!) in the exact same position I'd left her
in. Dork. So now we're working on luring her around the house with
spoonfuls of canned dog food. Perhaps kneeing her would have worked
more quickly?
Melinda Shore
Shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net> wrote:
>I popped it on Harriet before leaving for about 30 minutes
>this morning, and came home to find her sitting and shivering
>(there's that elusive woe!) in the exact same position I'd left her
>in. Dork.
Let us now praise insensitive dogs (scanning around the
office, eyeing misc. Siberian Huskies). A friend's boxer
cross also tends to be a blend of the tireless boingy-
boingy-boingy on the one hand and trepidatious on the other.
Speaking of which, I really like that boxer that won
"Greatest American Dog." I'm not sure that they really
deserved to win over the Maltese, but both he and his owner
are telegenic like anything and Presley really is an
incredibly charismatic dog.
>So now we're working on luring her around the house with
>spoonfuls of canned dog food. Perhaps kneeing her would have worked
>more quickly?
Don't forget to flip her over on her back!
montana wildhack
> We still apparently do not know how to move with a cone on
> our head.
One must first turn off the magneto...
SteveB
Thank you. I did get a very good message here from a poster who offered an
alternative, which I honestly intend to try. It's just that I've been doing
that a long time, and it did work. I must admit that a couple of times, I
did feel sorry for the dog when they did make a hard landing, but no dog was
ever permanently injured. It did get results. But now, thanks to a
reasonable group member, I have a new method to try.
Steve, who actually DOES love most dogs.
SteveB
> "SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote in
> news:t5drp5-...@news.infowest.com:
>
>> It is important to be able to communicate.
>
> Yes, well...
>
>> Even if one has to lower their vocabulary and presentation style
>> to do so.
>
> One? Their? And what the hell does lowering one's vocabulary
> *mean*?
>
> --
> Shelly
Adjusting the vocabulary, grammar, syntax, vernacular, and colloquialisms so
as to have the other person in the conversation be able to understand you,
and not to view you as talking down to them.
BTW, what does " *mean* " mean? I am unfamiliar with asterisks to highlight
a word. I DO understand parentheses.
Steve
Paul E. Schoen
"SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote in message
>
> BTW, what does " *mean* " mean? I am unfamiliar with asterisks to
> highlight a word. I DO understand parentheses.
AIUI, asterisks are used in text-based newsgroup postings to emphasize a
word, where one might use italics or bold fonts or <EM> or <STRONG> in
HTML:
http://www.htmlcodetutorial.com/_STRONG.html
Here is a Wiki entry that lists their use for emphasis (but it is described
elsewhere as well):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterisk
http://www.webworkshop.org/design_articles/adding_emphasis.htm
http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/markdown-discuss/2004-March/000108.html
More than you wanted to know, probably, but I wanted confirmation of my
assumptions.
Did you know there is an HTMLdog?
http://htmldog.com/reference/htmltags/strong/
Paul and <STRONG>Muttley</STRONG>
SteveB
Thank you. I learned something today.
Steve
SteveB
"SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote in message
news:fqitp5-...@news.infowest.com...
>
doh! AND QUOTATION MARKS, TOO.
Dog food gives me brain farts.
Steve
Mark Shaw
> Dogs jump up because they are rewarded for jumping up with attention.
> B.F. Skinner proved that behaviors that are ignored or which do not
> result in the desired reward are not repeated. Dogs are always working
> for the reward. Therefore, the most effective way to stop jumping up is
> to stand up tall, cross your arms, look away, and actually turn your
> back on the jumping dog. Totally withdraw your attention. Then when the
> dog's four feet are on the ground, bend down, make a happy face and
> cheerful voice and praise.
> At first the dog is likely to immediately jump up again. At which time
> you again stand tall, turn your back, fold your arms, and refuse to look
> at the dog.
You know what the biggest problem I have with this technique is?
That's right: getting other humans to do it as well. Even clued-
in dog folks sometimes don't seem to understand how I need them to
react to my dog jumping up on them. And the un-clued ones more
often than not simply ignore my requests, and happily scratch my
dog's ears and baby-talk at him while he has his front paws on them.
Argh. Dopey humans are always screwing up good training programs.
(A knee to the chest, though? "Steve" would not want to be doing
that.)
--
Mark Shaw (And Baron) moc TOD liamg TA wahsnm
=========================================================================
"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his
life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the
last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."
-Unknown
Mark Shaw
> I have a
> good friend with MS who said that hot, humid weather makes
> her symptoms worse. I wonder if that's a general thing (hot
> weather exacerbating neurological problems).
Yes, at least where MS is concerned. It's one of the few
issues common to most MS sufferers.
--
Mark Shaw (And Baron) moc TOD liamg TA wahsnm
=========================================================================
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite
you. This is the principal difference between a man and his dog." -Twain
Mark Shaw
> "Melinda Shore" wrote
> > I would venture that very few people here have dogs who jump
> > up on people, and would further venture that of the people
> Actually, Cash still jumps on us just a little.
Baron still has that problem as well (see my response to Robin).
We're working on it, though.
--
Mark Shaw (And Baron) moc TOD liamg TA wahsnm
=========================================================================
Mark Shaw
> "Melinda Shore" <sh...@panix.com> wrote in message
> news:ga86c7$nr8$1...@panix2.panix.com...
[...]
> I'm sorry. Was I drunk or absent the day you were coronated and put in
> charge?
There's no such word as "coronated," asshat.
--
Mark Shaw (And Baron) moc TOD liamg TA wahsnm
=========================================================================
"I wonder if other dogs think poodles are members
of a weird religious cult." -Rita Rudner
cshenk
> cshenk wrote:
>> Actually, Cash still jumps on us just a little.
>
> Baron still has that problem as well (see my response to Robin).
> We're working on it, though.
It takes time. Cash's habits are within acceptable limits for 'most' folks
but probably not those who have seriously large dog who need (*need*) higher
obedience levels for the safety of others.
Recent example: Cash has 2 kids that come over, both age 6. One has a dog
and the other has a cat. The doggie owner one will just giggle as Cash runs
up to lick him (which worries me slightly that he may one day be hurt by an
ill trained dog not as careful as Cash, but then he knows *Cash* well).
The cat owning kid first time ran back in fear as Cash tried to run up to
lick her. Cash saw this right away *before* we could react and dropped to
the floor and whined up at her. This a good 3 feet away from her. Now when
he sees her, he runs 'slower' to her and stops right at 3 feet then plopps
down and rolls over for a great big belly scritch. Then and only then after
his belly scritch, he'll sit up and lick the poor kid silly.
Is this perfect? No, but then again the main problem I see is the boy who
has a dog needs to be more careful. One day he might be hurt and Cash isnt
really helping him understand that. Kinda the dog might be training the kid
the wrong way if that makes sense.
Other things with Cash. We know he is very protective of his favorite
squeeky toys with the kids who come over to play. We trained the kids to
*not* play with those toys with him because we do not want any accidents.
It's pretty clear that at some stage Cash was a hunting dog. He will see
them and take a moment to move his favorite toys to what he considers a
'hiding spot' (which normally they can see) then run to greet them. We
often re-hide them a bit better in the master bedroom in a spot he knows to
go looking ;-)
I'd say if we have an issue still, it's leash/harness walking. Sometimes at
the vets I have to almost drag him. I feel bad about that, but haven't
mastered that part yet with him when he's excited at all the new 4 legged
potential friends.
Cash BTW is a mixed rescue pup. Beagle is his predominant looks but the mix
seems to be with bull mastiff according to the vets and my own scans of
pics. Short legged bull mastiff sort of build with a beagle head. Can not
be free fed (will eat til he gets fat we are sure) but is a bit self
monitoring so that occasionally he'll leave a little breakfast for later.
Gets 2/3 cup dry in morning and 2/3 dry at dinner with 1/2 can wet added.
Gets a lunch nosh with the cat of broth and fat added (1/2 cup for him, 3 TB
for her). Was horribly underweight when we got him but neither we nor the
vets realized just now much so until he bulked out with muscles with proper
feeding after getting over the heartworms. Cash was 17 lbs shy of his right
50lb weight but we all thought at first it was just 5-6 lbs til he gained
that then added another 5-6 etc.
Be careful to use a reality check on the advice here. It can be good, or it
can be less good. I recently re-added the group after leaving. Folks were
castigating me for feeding Cash more than 1 cup of food a day. They clued
in on 'beagle' vice 'beagle mix and bigger than normal' and missed that I
could count every rib up to his shoulders when standing (emanciated). I
asked how much to feed him pending a vet review and the fight was on! I was
so horrible as to feed 1 cup per feeding (grin). I was just sure you werent
supposed to be able to count the vertebra with your fingers clearly or see
the ribs all the way up on this body type so ignored the advice to reduce
his food til he was a 'proper 20-25 lb beagle' and went with instincts.
Meantime, gonna go try walking him again. Charlotte's got the pooper
scouper!
SteveB
"Mark Shaw" <ms...@bangnetcom.com> wrote in message
news:gajjsm$d5u$6...@reader1.panix.com...
> In rec.pets.dogs.behavior SteveB <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote:
>> "Melinda Shore" <sh...@panix.com> wrote in message
>> news:ga86c7$nr8$1...@panix2.panix.com...
>
> [...]
>
>> I'm sorry. Was I drunk or absent the day you were coronated and put in
>> charge?
>
> There's no such word as "coronated," asshat.
>
> --
> Mark Shaw (And Baron)
Well, then, I guess there are a lot of "asshats" in here, because they
understood my word.
English
[edit] Verb
Infinitive
to coronate
Third person singular
coronates
Simple past
coronated
Past participle
coronated
Present participle
coronating
to coronate (third-person singular simple present coronates, present
participle coronating, simple past and past participle coronated)
1.. To crown a sovereign; to invest a prince with the insignia of royalty,
on his succeeding to the sovereignty.
I found this on Google out of a dictionary. But then I'm absolutely
positively certain that they do not know as much as you do.
Have a nice day and adjust yer hat.
Steve
Paul E. Schoen
>> "Melinda Shore" <sh...@panix.com> wrote in message
>> news:ga86c7$nr8$1...@panix2.panix.com...
>
> [...]
>
>> I'm sorry. Was I drunk or absent the day you were coronated and put in
>> charge?
>
IFYPFY. But some might agree with you on the viability of the word:
http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/messages/chrono/9573211
But there is a Corinated Treefrog:
http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?query_src=&seq_num=168525&one=T
And I suppose, if one were to cover one's ass, an "asshat" would be
appropriate attire.
Paul and Muttley
Paul E. Schoen
"SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote in message
I think sometimes people feel the need to say something totally wrong just
to get an argument going. Such people are known as "trolls", and it seems
that Mark has earned the privilege of being coronated with that title. Or
perhaps he was playing the game of "gullible", where you tell someone that
the word "gullible" is not in the dictionary, and then watch them go to the
trouble of proving you wrong.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gullible
I think that is what Matt did to me some time ago with his remark about a
year ago:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pets.dogs.behavior/msg/cac66469cec47b30?dmode=source
That thread was originally derailed by Melinda, who criticized my
JavaScript coding, rather than commenting on the concept I had proposed for
a dog licensing application, and then the usual suspects tried to attack my
credentials in electronics. Talk about thread drift!
Paul and Muttley