Peeing the rug when I'm there.
MNRebecca
mix. Female. About 5 years old. Spayed.
Fargo is house-broken.
She can stay alone all day long and not have accidents.
She stays on her bed in my bedroom all night long and doesn't have
accidents.
But when I come home in the evening and meet all her needs (food,
water, exercise, play time together, snuggling, maybe a rawhide chew
treat, and 2 or 3 potty breaks scattered throughout), THAT is when she
pees the rug. She waits until I'm lying on the couch watching tv,
then she goes to the open area behind the couch and pees on the big
braided rug. She has done this three times in two weeks (and once in
another living room location) despite consequences I assume she does
NOT like, i.e. time confined in a small bathroom (longer each time).
It's true, my last dog used to spend a LOT of time on this particular
rug. But Fargo doesn't pee on other rugs Billy used. And she doesn't
pee on this particular rug while I'm gone all day.
Thoughts? Thanks if you can help.
Janet Boss
<1503441e-cd28-4eeb...@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
MNRebecca <web...@morris.umn.edu> wrote:
> She waits until I'm lying on the couch watching tv,
> then she goes to the open area behind the couch and pees on the big
> braided rug. She has done this three times in two weeks (and once in
> another living room location) despite consequences I assume she does
> NOT like, i.e. time confined in a small bathroom (longer each time).
Do you think she understands the confinement? Why are you LETTING the
pattern continue?
#1 - keep a better eye on her
#2 - realize that once you are home, she becomes more active which
stimulates her entire body
#3 - clean effectively or get rid of the rug (at least temporarily)
#4 - block the area (chairs, gates, whatever)
#5 - supervise better (did I already say that? Yes - you need to do
that!)
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
MNRebecca
wrote:
> Do you think she understands the confinement?
Yes, it has worked to teach her not to climb up on the furniture.
> #3 - clean effectively or get rid of the rug (at least temporarily)
I got rid of the rug. No accidents since. I hope to introduce a new
one, perhaps over New Year's when I have more time at home with her.
She likes the other braided rugs in the house - likes to roll on them,
scratching and massaging herself. Hope she's okay with the new one.
R.
Jerry Howe - The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{}'; ~ ) >
news:d42dffd1-44c0-46f9...@d20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
R.
----------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
IDIOT <{}: ~ ( >
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard
MNRebecca
> I got rid of the rug. No accidents since. I hope to introduce a new
> one, perhaps over New Year's when I have more time at home with her.
> She likes the other braided rugs in the house - likes to roll on them,
> scratching and massaging herself. Hope she's okay with the new one.
Alas, that didn't work. Peed the new rug AND a previously unpeed rug
near her water bowl. This time I added denial of a meal to the time
out AND took advice from another source that she may feel insecure
because I'm not being dominant enough. It's really not my style, as a
dog owner, to dominate my dog. But there have been no accidents
since.
R.
sighthounds & siberians
You denied your dog a meal because she peed on a rug? Do you
seriously think she understood the connection?
Whoever told you the dog is peeing on the rug because you're not
dominant enough is, um, misguided. I shudder to think how you
asserted your dominance.
Did you bother to rule out a medical cause for her behavior?
montana wildhack
> Did you bother to rule out a medical cause for her behavior?
And what kind of schedule is the dog on?
Paul E. Schoen
"montana wildhack" <mon...@wildhack.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:2010011622164916807-montana@wildhackcominvalid...
> On 2010-01-14 21:32:42 -0500, sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com> said:
>
>> Did you bother to rule out a medical cause for her behavior?
>
> And what kind of schedule is the dog on?
Perhaps some dogs require a strict schedule to achieve perfect
housebreaking, but I do not think that is the case in this situation. I can
offer my experience with Muttley to verify that he, at least, can be 100%
reliable in the house with a random schedule that provides him with only
one or two walks of perhaps 15-20 minute duration each day, and sometimes
remaining in the house for 12-20 hours. He will let me know if he really
needs to go out (or if he just hears an animal he wants to investigate),
but he absolutely does not mess in the house.
I agree with the OP that her dog may be exhibiting dominant behavior and is
marking in the house for rasons related to that. Once a dog has accepted a
human as a surrogate pack leader, and also recognizes the house as the
pack's den, only extreme circumstances would warrant messing in the house.
In this case the peeing seems to be a definite message, and probably an
attempt to assert dominance in the absence of an accepted pack leader. The
human may establish pack leadership in various ways, and it need not be
violent or abusive, but is mostly a show of confidence and zero tolerance
for unwanted behavior. And much depends on the personalities of the dog and
the human.
Paul and Muttley
www.muttleydog.com
sighthounds & siberians
<pa...@peschoen.com> wrote:
>
>"montana wildhack" <mon...@wildhack.com.invalid> wrote in message
>news:2010011622164916807-montana@wildhackcominvalid...
>> On 2010-01-14 21:32:42 -0500, sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com> said:
>>
>>> Did you bother to rule out a medical cause for her behavior?
>>
>> And what kind of schedule is the dog on?
>
>Perhaps some dogs require a strict schedule to achieve perfect
>housebreaking, but I do not think that is the case in this situation. I can
>offer my experience with Muttley to verify that he, at least, can be 100%
>reliable in the house with a random schedule that provides him with only
>one or two walks of perhaps 15-20 minute duration each day, and sometimes
>remaining in the house for 12-20 hours. He will let me know if he really
>needs to go out (or if he just hears an animal he wants to investigate),
>but he absolutely does not mess in the house.
>
>I agree with the OP that her dog may be exhibiting dominant behavior and is
>marking in the house for rasons related to that.
Of course you do, because no one else does, and taking this position
might get you some attention.
>Once a dog has accepted a
>human as a surrogate pack leader, and also recognizes the house as the
>pack's den, only extreme circumstances would warrant messing in the house.
Rubbish. I've owned and/or fostered well over 50 dogs of different
breeds, including two *extremely* dominant females, and I've never
seen a dog pee on rugs out of dominance.
>In this case the peeing seems to be a definite message, and probably an
>attempt to assert dominance in the absence of an accepted pack leader. The
>human may establish pack leadership in various ways, and it need not be
>violent or abusive, but is mostly a show of confidence and zero tolerance
>for unwanted behavior. And much depends on the personalities of the dog and
>the human.
All based on your vast experience, watching The Dog Whisperer and
reading Victorial Stillwell, eh?
You're too inexperienced (both in terms of dogs you've owned and
training methods/behavior theories you've used and read about) to
offer advice to anyone.
Alison
news:pj5al5dbs6b60uirj...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 00:14:53 -0500, "Paul E. Schoen"
> reading Victorial Stillwell, eh? >>
In defence of VS, she no longer believes in the Dominance or Rank
Reduction Theory.
Alison
sighthounds & siberians
That's good. Dogs do sometimes do things because of a desire to
dominate, but not anywhere as often as some people claim, and more in
relation to other dogs than people, IMO. I wasn't saying anything
positive, negative, or neutral about either TDW or VS; I was saying
that all of Paul's 'knowledge' comes from those sources. Or, at any
rate, those are the two he's always quoting.
Paul E. Schoen
I also have the experience of my own dog, who was a dominant pack leader of
his own gang of three other dogs. When I first got him his peeing in the
house was definitely a message to my cat, and since I kept him outside a
lot he did not really consider the house as his den. After time he began to
respect my authority and he clearly communicated to me that he wanted to
stay in the house. After that time he was 100% reliable in the house even
though the cat was still there, and I did not take any special measures to
remove the scent where he had his "accidents".
With my other rescue dog "Lucky", I never had any problems with her peeing
in the house, but I mostly kept her crated or closely supervised with
Muttley. She seemed to be more submissive, although she did initiate play
with Muttley.
Reading the VS forums and watching IMOTD I can see some flaws in the
dogmatic insistence on "purely positive" training methods (although it is
really positive reinforcement and negative punishment). The idea that one
must always set up a dog to succeed by removing all triggers and situations
that cause unwanted behavior just makes no sense. Positive punishment is a
very powerful and effective tool when used immediately upon exhibition of
unwanted behavior. The trick is to be sure it is administered within a
split second of the behavior, and that it is consistent and just enough to
keep the behavior from escalating.
Victoria Stilwell's approach, as interpreted by many of her fans on the
forum, lost credibility in one thread especially, entitled "I'm a Bloody
Mess Today". The young woman had a large GSD "puppy" who was lunging at her
aggressively and biting hard enough to cause injury, yet the regulars on
the forum advised her only to continue just turning her back and ignoring
the behavior and wearing multiple layers of old clothing to protect her
from the bites. I was criticised and eventually banned from the forum
because I advised using an aversive correction. But after I corresponded
with her using PM and email I learned that she did eventually make some
corrections and the situation improved, but she would not admit it in the
forum for fear of censorship.
So the VS forums are infested with a bunch of obsequious sycophants (or
psychophants) who are forced to adhere to a narrow range of acceptable
discussion. As such, I view them now for amusement and amazement at some of
the silly problems and ineffective (and even IMHO dangerous) advice. They
criticize the Dog Whisperer for the caveat of "seek a professional before
trying this at home", but I think that the misapplication of the VS methods
is also dangerous.
The CM community forum is much more balanced and open to real discussion,
and I truly believe that his methods are much more effective. As for the
"dominance" theory, perhaps some of the concepts are not accurate when
applied too literally, but all higher order animals, including humans,
certainly have personalities and tendancies which define much of their
behavior. Some individuals are naturally and genetically inclined to be
leaders, and others followers, and some will have highly social,
cooperative personalities while others are asocial, antisocial, and even
psychopathically criminal. It is certainly evident in humans, and I am sure
it applies as well to dogs. And effective behavior modification depends on
this innate mindset as well as basic intelligence and ability to learn and
communicate.
The OP has stated that she has had success by "dominating" her dog. This
does not necessarily mean harsh punishment and physical corrections, but it
is mostly a calm assertive attitude and expectation of respect, just as CM
might recommend. And in this case I agree with Janet who gave good advice
right from the start. She may not have specifically talked about dominance,
but that was implied by "not letting the pattern continue", and
"supervising better".
Paul and Muttley
www.muttleydog.com