> Cathy Friedmann <c...@adelphia.net> elaborated: > : cremated - simply prefer it over a traditional burial, for one reason and/or > : another. Some have an aversion to being buried in the ground (& want their > : ashes scattered or kept above ground), or feel that too much space is taken
> Yep, like me. I want my ashes spread out over Zion Park... or maybe over > PUget Sound. Some area that I really loved basically.
> Tigress
> -- > The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't > worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev > |\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress > /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' tigr...@havoc.gtf.gatech.edu > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.
Mine are going to be buried at the pet cemetery where my cats are/will be.
> Ummmm... cremation is not considered a poor man's option (in the USA), > AFAIK. The people I know who wanted to be/ wish to be when the time comes - > cremated - simply prefer it over a traditional burial
This is one of the main poits of my argument.
You refer to "traitional burial". We simply do not have "traditional burial" in England. The practice of either burial or cremation is embraced in all funerals. The practice of cremation is not seen to reject the concept of a traditional funeral, but is seen to accompany it. Neither burial or cremation of the dead is seen to be "traditional". I have noted that American thinking sees a traditional funeral to include burial, and that those who require or request cremation are somewhat radical and forward thinking; this is not the case in England.
> That said, I don't know how you'd verify that you actually have cat > ashes, short of a lab test determing they were some other substance. I > doubt you could determine whether they were the ashes of *your* cat > under any circumstances.
Just toconfirm this theory, it is impossible to assertain the identity of cremated remains of any animal as all tissue and fluid (which contains DNA and cell matter) has either been combusted or evaporated by the intense heat of the retort. This is why in the case of human cremations, extensive checks are done in regard to identity and cause of death prior to the cremation. The species of the cremated animal would be able to be identitfied prior to the cremulation (the processing of the remains to a fine consistency)
> > Ummmm... cremation is not considered a poor man's option (in the USA), > > AFAIK. The people I know who wanted to be/ wish to be when the time comes - > > cremated - simply prefer it over a traditional burial
> This is one of the main poits of my argument.
And my point was that I took exception to your term "poor man's option", since I haven't seen cremation viewed in that light.
Cathy
-- "Staccato signals of constant information..." ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon
> You refer to "traitional burial". We simply do not have "traditional > burial" in England. The practice of either burial or cremation is > embraced in all funerals. The practice of cremation is not seen to > reject the concept of a traditional funeral, but is seen to accompany > it. Neither burial or cremation of the dead is seen to be > "traditional". I have noted that American thinking sees a traditional > funeral to include burial, and that those who require or request > cremation are somewhat radical and forward thinking; this is not the > case in England.
"Cathy Friedmann" <c...@adelphia.net> wrote in message <news:a58h7a$5ehol$1@ID-103542.news.dfncis.de>... > Adrian Abbott <AAAbbott31753...@aol.com> wrote in message > news:26aa8f75.0202230822.7efcc9c5@posting.google.com... > > > Ummmm... cremation is not considered a poor man's option (in the USA), > > > AFAIK. The people I know who wanted to be/ wish to be when the time > comes - > > > cremated - simply prefer it over a traditional burial
> > This is one of the main poits of my argument.
> And my point was that I took exception to your term "poor man's option", > since I haven't seen cremation viewed in that light.
My interpretation of the American thinking on cremation may not match your personal view.
I have read and viewed websites of funeral homes in the US and cremation seems to be universally interprted as an alternaive or replacement of a traditional funeral. The practice is seen by the funeral industry as a bypass or rejection of their traditional services. I was commenting that the English perspective is suprisngly dissimilar to this. I apologise if my candid comments have caused you any upset.
> > Adrian Abbott <AAAbbott31753...@aol.com> wrote in message > > news:26aa8f75.0202230822.7efcc9c5@posting.google.com... > > > > Ummmm... cremation is not considered a poor man's option (in the USA), > > > > AFAIK. The people I know who wanted to be/ wish to be when the time > > comes - > > > > cremated - simply prefer it over a traditional burial
> > > This is one of the main poits of my argument.
> > And my point was that I took exception to your term "poor man's option", > > since I haven't seen cremation viewed in that light.
> My interpretation of the American thinking on cremation may not match > your personal view.
Certainly appears that way...
> I have read and viewed websites of funeral homes in the US and > cremation seems to be universally interprted as an alternaive or > replacement of a traditional funeral. The practice is seen by the > funeral industry as a bypass or rejection of their traditional > services. I was commenting that the English perspective is suprisngly > dissimilar to this. I apologise if my candid comments have caused you > any upset.
Well, if you put it to others that your take on cremation in N.A. is that their wishes concerning their mortal remains are a "poor man's option", I think - in all reality - it's liable to cause some upset. Esp. when that is not the reason that many (most??) people choose cremation.
Cathy
-- "Staccato signals of constant information..." ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon
slugma...@yahoo.com (Han Glyder) wrote in message <news:9d3f7704.0202181800.406c3260@posting.google.com>... > Has anyone reading this had a cat cremated? I lost a dear pet named > Chelsea on new years morning. Thankfully she went quickly and > peacfully. I took her to a pet crematorium, they said they would > cremate Chelsea the next day and send her ashes to me. My question > is, should the ashes be relatively heavy and massive? She was about > an 8 lb cat, and the ashes they sent fit into a metal > box about 2 inches x 2 inches by 3 inches. The ash looks like ground > up cement and feels as heavy as sand (or ground up cement) would feel > in the same amount.
> Maybe I am just paranoid but I would think if you incinerate a cat > there isnt going to be much left but some very light ashes. Of course > the stories from Georgia about HUMAN cremations not being done has me > suspicious now. Hope sombody who knows the process can let me know if > the remains I have are really my cat.
Well, if she was individually cremated, this is how it was done:
Kitties are lined up on a platform and then a little brick wall is built all the way around each of the kitties. A diagram is drawn to show who is who. The incinerator is fired up, and afterward, each of the brick "houses" is taken down one by one, and the ashes are swept up and put into a plastic bag. That bag is then placed in the urn, or the ashes are poured directly into the urn.
If the urn you have is pretty full, it is enough ashes for an eight pound cat. It does look exactly like ground up cement.
AAAbbott31753...@aol.com (Adrian Abbott) wrote in message <news:26aa8f75.0202220950.3a017e82@posting.google.com>... > Hi, I am writing from a British perspecive here so there mabe some > differences in our protocol. First of all, I would like to express my > disgust at the conduct of the Tri-State Crematory, Georgia in liht of > the recent discoery of their malpractice. My condoences aso go out to > the families of the deceased.
> The British practice in cremation is the envy of the world. Our > stringnt environmental and proceures prior to cremation are unrivalled > by any country on the globe. The cremation rate in the UK is second > only to Japan (98%); around 73% of deaths are followed by cremation. > This is not a poor man's option like in the US,
Well, in addition to being arrogant, you are insulting. I am far from poor and would choose cremation in a heartbeat, as have all of my friends and relatives.
> > >This is exactly what I got with Spaz (RB) remains..I was quite touched by > the > > >paw > > >print..it's something I never thought to do when she was alive. It cost > a > > >bit more > > >to have her cremated alone but it wasn't too much (i think > $150.00)....and > > >yes, i > > >too was surprised at the ashes as she weren't what i was expected.
> > I had Queenie cremated alone too. But my vet didn't do this pawprinting. > Wish > > they had. > > Lauren > > =^..^= > There's nothing like having a photo to remember them by, I know since I > don't have a photo of one of them cause I never though he'd go so soon. > I have the ashes of 2 of mine in potted roses on the back deck so they'll be > around forever. > ron herfurth
Yes!!! Take TONS of photos, in all stages of their life.
Sadly, the last photos I have of my Mom are from my wedding. I will never look at those pohotos in quite the same light, ever again.
Richard Evans (info...@mindspring.com) writes: > slugma...@yahoo.com (Han Glyder) wrote:
>>Has anyone reading this had a cat cremated? I lost a dear pet named >>Chelsea on new years morning. Thankfully she went quickly and >>peacfully. I took her to a pet crematorium, they said they would >>cremate Chelsea the next day and send her ashes to me. My question >>is, should the ashes be relatively heavy and massive? She was about >>an 8 lb cat, and the ashes they sent fit into a metal >>box about 2 inches x 2 inches by 3 inches. The ash looks like ground >>up cement and feels as heavy as sand (or ground up cement) would feel >>in the same amount.
> Yes, I had a cat cremated and the remains fit in a box about this > size.
> I also had my father cremated. (Had to. He was dead.) He weighed about > 300 pounds and his ashes fit in a container about the size of a > shoebox.
> Remember that all living things are about 90% water. When the water's > gone, there's not much left.
> That said, I don't know how you'd verify that you actually have cat > ashes, short of a lab test determing they were some other substance. I > doubt you could determine whether they were the ashes of *your* cat > under any circumstances.
> Dick Evans
This is a question I asked the people at the crematorium, do I really get the ashes of my father ???? They say yes as we always clean after every one! But we will never know:-)
> Well, if you put it to others that your take on cremation in N.A. is that > their wishes concerning their mortal remains are a "poor man's option", I > think - in all reality - it's liable to cause some upset. Esp. when that is > not the reason that many (most??) people choose cremation.
> Cathy
If you read the works of the late Jessica Mitford on the subject of cremation in the US, youwould understand my poin of view. If you look at the whole situation in N.A. from an outsiders perspective then the whole picture becomes a lot clearer. I do acknowledge that many people have ethical and religious reasons for their choice. Funeral homes do, undoubtbly, present cremation in such a way that it ade to seem inferior to the thE "tradtional funeral". THAT IS A FACT!
Anyway, I am not saying that I see cremation as a poor man's option but that American culture sees it that way. That wasthe argument I was making. No offence had been intended by my candid dissection of American funereal culture for what it really is!
pri...@user.kingsnake.com (Lyn) wrote in message <news:c68165b1.0202241648.12684cbf@posting.google.com>... > AAAbbott31753...@aol.com (Adrian Abbott) wrote in message <news:26aa8f75.0202220950.3a017e82@posting.google.com>... > > Hi, I am writing from a British perspecive here so there mabe some > > differences in our protocol. First of all, I would like to express my > > disgust at the conduct of the Tri-State Crematory, Georgia in liht of > > the recent discoery of their malpractice. My condoences aso go out to > > the families of the deceased.
> > The British practice in cremation is the envy of the world. Our > > stringnt environmental and proceures prior to cremation are unrivalled > > by any country on the globe. The cremation rate in the UK is second > > only to Japan (98%); around 73% of deaths are followed by cremation. > > This is not a poor man's option like in the US,
> Well, in addition to being arrogant, you are insulting. I am far from > poor and would choose cremation in a heartbeat, as have all of my > friends and relatives.
> It is a matter of culture, and not finances.
> -L.
I have to disagree with you. What about the many people who die suddenly with no arrangements set up and the family has no option but to cremate, because of the cost issues. Not everyone is far from poor. Not everyone can purchase a plot years before they die. The cost of a funeral and burial is very strapping for some people. Cremation is a more inexpensive way to do things and for some people, that is the only choice. I think your opinion is yours and does not speak for the whole of the population in the United States. For some people, it is a matter of culture, and for some, it is a matter of cost.
yulie_man...@yahoo.com (Julie Manuel) wrote in message <news:ab07e248.0203010744.6ea63ff9@posting.google.com>... > pri...@user.kingsnake.com (Lyn) wrote in message <news:c68165b1.0202241648.12684cbf@posting.google.com>... > > AAAbbott31753...@aol.com (Adrian Abbott) wrote in message <news:26aa8f75.0202220950.3a017e82@posting.google.com>... > > > Hi, I am writing from a British perspecive here so there mabe some > > > differences in our protocol. First of all, I would like to express my > > > disgust at the conduct of the Tri-State Crematory, Georgia in liht of > > > the recent discoery of their malpractice. My condoences aso go out to > > > the families of the deceased.
> > > The British practice in cremation is the envy of the world. Our > > > stringnt environmental and proceures prior to cremation are unrivalled > > > by any country on the globe. The cremation rate in the UK is second > > > only to Japan (98%); around 73% of deaths are followed by cremation. > > > This is not a poor man's option like in the US,
> > Well, in addition to being arrogant, you are insulting. I am far from > > poor and would choose cremation in a heartbeat, as have all of my > > friends and relatives.
> > It is a matter of culture, and not finances.
> > -L. > I have to disagree with you. What about the many people who die > suddenly with no arrangements set up and the family has no option but > to cremate, because of the cost issues. Not everyone is far from poor. > Not everyone can purchase a plot years before they die. The cost of a > funeral and burial is very strapping for some people. Cremation is a > more inexpensive way to do things and for some people, that is the > only choice. I think your opinion is yours and does not speak for the > whole of the population in the United States. For some people, it is a > matter of culture, and for some, it is a matter of cost.
Whatever. But FWIW, many "poor" people wouldn't dream of cremating a loved one, even if they they don't have the money for embalming and burial, because of religious and cultural reasons. To call cremation "the poor man's option" *is* insulting because for many, it has no negative connotations whatsoever, and in fact, is the preferred method of disposal, regardless of cost.
The actual "the poor man's option" is no "option" at all, because the truly indigent get a public-funded disposal, either cremation or burial dependant upon local law.
