Dave's gone a-hunting
Pat
felines in our care. Of course we will eat some too, and I will have lots of
bones for stock, and maybe a hide if the tanning attempt turns out right.
Deer-finding purrs appreciated!
Jofirey
"Pat" <just_a_ghost@in_this_house.us> wrote in message
news:_4qdnT0OrpDTMJ3W...@centurytel.net...
Just make sure the hide is treated for fleas before it ever comes
inside.
You would think something like tanning a deer hide, which primitive
people could manage with a few sharp bones and some pee would be an
easier job than it is. But the results are very nice and last a
very long time.
Good hunting.
Though anymore there are so many deer around, it is more like
harvesting than hunting. They are moving further down into this
valley. Not a good thing since they will bring their predators with
them. And they are more than plenty of both up in the hills.
I'm starting to think they need the equivalent of a computer dating
service to get the predators and prey together in a suitable area
(not our back yards)
I'm curious. Can and will a coyote bring down a small deer? Or do
we need to bears and cougars to do that?
Jo
Pat
"Jofirey" <jof...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
| I'm curious. Can and will a coyote bring down a small deer? Or do
| we need to bears and cougars to do that?
I can't imagine a bear going after a deer. Coyotes will pack up to kill
larger game.
Sherry
> "Jofirey" <jofi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
I'm not sure. Coyotes don't disturb livestock here. I can't imagine
them
bringing down a deer. But I really don't know. This is breeding
season,
right now, and the deer are very active. We have seen lots of them,
and have already seen a few killed by cars. The coyotes *do* eat them
as roadkill, I've seen them doing it.
Lots of men hunt deer here, and have some peculiar methods that
involve
freezing one's butt off in a deer stand and spraying oneself with some
kind
of spray manufactured with some kind of urine.
I absolutely loathe the deer hunters. No offense. But I posted "no
hunting" signs
and they just ignore them. Or what's worse is the gung-ho hunters who
start
with bow season and black-powder season, and aren't good enough at it
to actually bring the deer down. I can't stand the thought of just
wounding them.
Sherry
Pat
"Sherry" <srid...@aol.com> wrote
> I absolutely loathe the deer hunters. No offense. But I posted
> "no hunting" signs and they just ignore them.
I think you're supposed to spray purple paint on tree trunks around your
boundary.
One of the few benefits of living in town is not being surrounded by rifle
fire during hunting season. I was always afraid that a bullet would come
through a wall or something in my house or that someone would shoot a pet or
a horse. They're not supposed to shoot within 1/4 mile of an occupied
dwelling but they ignore that too.
Dave is hunting for the first time in 50 years and he's using a rifle. He
doesn't like the bow hunters and neither do I.
Sherry
> "Sherry" <sridd...@aol.com> wrote
I'm sure he already knows this, but be sure he wears orange! Some of
those people out there are nuts. :-)
Sherry
Baird Stafford
"Jofirey" <jof...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
<snip>
> I'm curious. Can and will a coyote bring down a small deer? Or do
> we need to bears and cougars to do that?
Old Man Coyote can certainly bring down sheep, and has been accused to
taking cattle. Deer should be within his capabilities.
Baird
--
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice
there is. -Yogi Berra
Cheryl
A coyote (or, rather, two working together) can and did kill a young
woman in Nova Scotia recently. Apparently that's extremely unusual - but
it does show that they can bring down larger prey than the rabbits, cats
etc. they are generally associated with.
--
Cheryl
Sherry
> In article <7mbrt2F3h0d0...@mid.individual.net>,
>
> "Jofirey" <jofi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > I'm curious. Can and will a coyote bring down a small deer? Or do
> > we need to bears and cougars to do that?
>
> Old Man Coyote can certainly bring down sheep, and has been accused to
> taking cattle. Deer should be within his capabilities.
>
> Baird
>
calves. Even
then, that doesn't happen often. Mama cows are a force to be reckoned
with, and
it would definitely take more than one coyote. A rancher nearby did
get a
donkey to protect his herd. Donkeys are obnoxious enough to chase off
the coyotes, and even kill them.
Coyotes don't kill for sport. If they're motivated enough by hunger, I
guess they'd
probably try to take down anything out there, including people. And
from what
I hear at night, there are plenty of them around.
Sherry
Sherry
Pat
"Sherry" <srid...@aol.com> wrote
> I'm sure he already knows this, but be sure he wears orange!
The vest and hat are required by law in this state.
Sherry
>
> > I absolutely loathe the deer hunters. No offense. But I posted
> > "no hunting" signs and they just ignore them.
>
> I think you're supposed to spray purple paint on tree trunks around your
> boundary.
>
Sherry
Jofirey
"Baird Stafford" <ba...@newstaff.com> wrote in message
news:baird-307C6D....@news.giganews.com...
> In article <7mbrt2F...@mid.individual.net>,
> "Jofirey" <jof...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I'm curious. Can and will a coyote bring down a small deer? Or
>> do
>> we need to bears and cougars to do that?
>
> Old Man Coyote can certainly bring down sheep, and has been
> accused to
> taking cattle. Deer should be within his capabilities.
>
> Baird
That's kind of what I was thinking. And the local deer are very
small. Though there are abundant rabbits and various rodents to
keep the coyotes well fed too.
I just hate to see high traffic areas become overrun with deer. Not
good for them or for the drivers. And there is tons of good safe
habitat available for them.
I think the extra road kill I've seen is kind of a perfect storm of
mating season, flooding of the rice fields and new road construction
disrupting normal animal traffic patterns
Jo
Christina Websell
"Cheryl" <cper...@mun.ca> wrote in message
news:7mcsl9F...@mid.individual.net...
> Jofirey wrote:
>>
>> "Pat" <just_a_ghost@in_this_house.us> wrote in message
>> news:_4qdnT0OrpDTMJ3W...@centurytel.net...
>>> For a deer, most of which (assuming he gets one) will be eaten by the 15
>>> felines in our care. Of course we will eat some too, and I will have
>>> lots of
>>> bones for stock, and maybe a hide if the tanning attempt turns out
>>> right.
>>> Deer-finding purrs appreciated!
>>
>> Just make sure the hide is treated for fleas before it ever comes inside.
>
> A coyote (or, rather, two working together) can and did kill a young woman
> in Nova Scotia recently. Apparently that's extremely unusual - but it does
> show that they can bring down larger prey than the rabbits, cats etc. they
> are generally associated with.
>
Two coyotes can kill a person?
I don't find this surprising if I think about it seriously. If I had two
German Shepherd dogs and they turned on me seriously they could easily kill
me. Coyotes are only a bit smaller.
Even terriers could kill you if they went crazy
/
So what happened when the coyotes killed the woman?
Were they hunted and shot down? What was the result?
Tweed
>
Jack Campin - bogus address
>> in Nova Scotia recently. Apparently that's extremely unusual - but it does
>> show that they can bring down larger prey than the rabbits, cats etc. they
>> are generally associated with.
> Could you provide a link for this, Cheryl? I find this very interesting.
> Two coyotes can kill a person?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin
MaryL
"Christina Websell" <ti...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7me7glF...@mid.individual.net...
Here is a video that discusses the attack on Taylor Mitchell and provides
some information about coyotes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V1PQTS54zg
...and here is a newspaper article:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2009/10/29/2009-10-29_coyotes_kill_musician_taylor_mitchell_while_hiking_in_cape_breton_highlands_nati.html
-or TinyURL:
http://tinyurl.com/ykqcvph
MaryL
MaryL
I don't see any reason why we should be expected to destroy the natural
beauty of our trees by spray-painting the trunks. When I still lived at my
parents' home, we posted the property. Still, there were some hunters that
would actually cut the wire fences (which let the horses out), so purple
paint probably would have had little effect on them. By contrast, there
were some hunters who were polite enough to come to the front door and ask
for information about areas that were open for hunting.
MaryL
Sherry
wrote:
> "Pat" <just_a_ghost@in_this_house.us> wrote in message
>
> news:T4GdnYOfDZRITp3W...@centurytel.net...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes, we have locked gates and had the fences cut. And four-wheel-drive
idiots leaving
ruts in the pasture after a rain and leaving their trash. And when
it's dry, I worry that catalytic converters or cigarettes will start a
fire. I do know there are hunters who respect property.
And they have a difficult time finding areas to hunt *because* people
have been so
burned by the other ones.
Sherry
Pat
"MaryL" <stan...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote
| Here is a video that discusses the attack on Taylor Mitchell and provides
| some information about coyotes:
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V1PQTS54zg
I had an encounter with a pack of coyotes once, in Arizona. See my post from
12/21/06:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pets.cats.anecdotes/msg/1b44110099b29ec7
Cheryl
> Could you provide a link for this, Cheryl? I find this very interesting.
> Two coyotes can kill a person?
> I don't find this surprising if I think about it seriously. If I had two
> German Shepherd dogs and they turned on me seriously they could easily kill
> me. Coyotes are only a bit smaller.
> Even terriers could kill you if they went crazy
> /
> So what happened when the coyotes killed the woman?
> Were they hunted and shot down? What was the result?
I see Jack has already found the basic information. Here's some more,
with 'further information' links:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2009/10/29/ns-mitchell-mother.html
The news was quite a shock here. We are not really familiar with
coyotes; they've moved into eastern Canada only quite recently, and
although I think the ones here tend to be bigger than their western
ancestors, they didn't have a reputation of being dangerous to humans.
Sheep, yes; sheep farmers hate them. And possibly pets. But not humans.
I think they killed two coyotes which were acting aggressively in the
area of the incident, and there was evidence (I hate to think what kind)
that one of them had attacked a human. The wildlife officials were
checking out the other coyotes in the area. There should be a more
recent CBC story giving this information, but I didn't see it when I
looked for a link today.
There aren't many predators in eastern Canada big enough to kill a
human. Bear and lynx generally stay well away from humans - well, unless
the bears get habituated to garbage dump food; lynx are very shy, much
more so than bears - and wolves are generally found further north, and
in any case very rarely attack humans, whatever they say in fairy tales.
Although there was that unusual case a few years ago of a worker at an
isolated northern site who was killed by wolves.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2006/03/10/wolves-carnegie060310.html
"may be the first documented case of a healthy wolf killing a human in
the wild in North America in at least a century"
Everyone knows the cougars on Vancouver Island, way out west, attack
humans, but really, other than that, wild animals almost never attack.
And for a smallish one like a coyote to not only attack, but kill a
human? Very unusual.
--
Cheryl
Enfilade
Most wild animals will prefer to avoid rather than attack a human,
unless they are sick (ie rabid, deranged with pain) or have been
raised in such a situation that they have lost all fear of humans.
I was attacked by...either coyotes, wild dogs, or coyote/dog
hybrids...when I was a teenager. I was very lucky not to be bitten,
but I remember fending them off, partly with a staff, mostly due to
the efforts of our farm dog who responded to my yelling. There were
three of them, and I am glad there weren't more.
--Fil
MaryL
Wow! Frightening event, but a good story to tell since everything turned
out alright.
MaryL
MaryL
> Christina Websell wrote:
>
>> Could you provide a link for this, Cheryl? I find this very interesting.
>> Two coyotes can kill a person?
>> I don't find this surprising if I think about it seriously. If I had two
>> German Shepherd dogs and they turned on me seriously they could easily
>> kill me. Coyotes are only a bit smaller.
>> Even terriers could kill you if they went crazy
>> /
>> So what happened when the coyotes killed the woman?
>> Were they hunted and shot down? What was the result?
>
> I see Jack has already found the basic information. Here's some more, with
> 'further information' links:
>
> http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2009/10/29/ns-mitchell-mother.html
>
> The news was quite a shock here. We are not really familiar with coyotes;
> they've moved into eastern Canada only quite recently, and although I
> think the ones here tend to be bigger than their western ancestors, they
> didn't have a reputation of being dangerous to humans. Sheep, yes; sheep
> farmers hate them. And possibly pets. But not humans.
>
> Cheryl
>
We have a lot of coyotes here (East Texas), even in some areas in town. I
have never heard of them threatening people, but they have killed lots of
small animals. People are really taking risks when they leave their small
pets outdoors unattended, especially at night.
I think a coyote that would attack a person is probably very hungry. Many
of them are larger than in the past, probably the result of interbreeding
with dogs (and with wolves, in the past). We used to have red wolves here.
They supposedly are nonexistent in the area now, although some were trapped
(and confirmed) some years ago. I'm almost positive I saw one cross the
road in front of me back in the 1970s. Ironically, I have never seen a
coyote even though they are numerous--unless, of course, I have seen them
and mistook them for dogs.
MaryL
Cheryl
> We have a lot of coyotes here (East Texas), even in some areas in town.
> I have never heard of them threatening people, but they have killed lots
> of small animals. People are really taking risks when they leave their
> small pets outdoors unattended, especially at night.
>
> I think a coyote that would attack a person is probably very hungry.
> Many of them are larger than in the past, probably the result of
> interbreeding with dogs (and with wolves, in the past). We used to have
> red wolves here. They supposedly are nonexistent in the area now,
> although some were trapped (and confirmed) some years ago. I'm almost
> positive I saw one cross the road in front of me back in the 1970s.
> Ironically, I have never seen a coyote even though they are
> numerous--unless, of course, I have seen them and mistook them for dogs.
I live on an island, and although it was known that coyotes had migrated
as far east as Nova Scotia, it was assumed that they couldn't get across
the Cabot Strait, which can be quite a formidable bit of water and never
freezes over. So at first, everyone assumed that people were seeing
stray dogs - there are no wolves on the island part of the province, and
they sure weren't foxes. Then one was run over by a car, and someone
stuffed it (badly) and it was eventually obtained by the authorities and
identified as a coyote. I've seen that one - it looks like a harmless
scrawny thing. It has been assumed that they floated over on ice floes,
especially since some people saw 'wolves' on ice near shore, although
wolves haven't been seen on the island since the 19th century. They must
be a fair size, if they were assumed to be wolves.
I don't think the coyotes on the island are thought to be particularly
hungry. They're really moving into the hole in the ecology left by the
elimination of the wolf, and don't have any competition except the foxes
and possibly bears. Aside from sheep and pets, they are said to eat the
young of the caribou and of the vast number of moose. There's also lots
of smaller wild mammals.
http://www.env.gov.nl.ca/env/wildlife/wildlife_r_m/coyote.htm
I've never seen a coyote myself, although I've seen lots of bears as
well as most of the smaller fauna. I even once, as a child, caught a
glimpse of what was probably a lynx at a distance along a shoreline.
That's very unusual; we've got lots of lynx, but they are very rarely
spotted by humans.
--
Cheryl
MaryL
Thanks! That's an interesting report. One of my favorite vacations was the
year we traveled up the coast of Maine, through New Brunswick, and then
around Nova Scotia. This was more than 30 years ago, and we went in an out
all the charming little inlets along the coast. We found one particularly
beautiful little community, and I remember saying at the time that it would
be a great place for an artist. I love lighthouses, so I took lots of pics
of the lighthouse there. We thought we had discovered a lovely little town
and did not even realize at the time that it is actually a famous
place--Peggy's Cove.
MaryL
Christina Websell
"Jack Campin - bogus address" <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bogus-9B2F33....@news.albasani.net...
>>> A coyote (or, rather, two working together) can and did kill a young
>>> woman
>>> in Nova Scotia recently. Apparently that's extremely unusual - but it
>>> does
>>> show that they can bring down larger prey than the rabbits, cats etc.
>>> they
>>> are generally associated with.
>> Could you provide a link for this, Cheryl? I find this very interesting.
>> Two coyotes can kill a person?
Thinking about it seriously, maybe they could. There are quite large and if
they went mad and attacked you, two of them, you would not be in a good
position if you were on your own.
People forget, totally forget, that even a pet Labrador could kill you if
it wanted to.
Tweed
Jofirey
I've been reading some of the articles as well as general articles
about coyotes. Apparently they vary is size much more than I had
thought. They ones I see around here are usually about Kayla's size
or smaller. About as tall as she is but of course thinner. That
would put them at 20 to 25 lbs. And I've never seen them in pairs
much less in packs.
However, from the reading I've done, it would appear that the
coyotes get larger as you move toward the north and the east.
Genetic research shows that the coyotes in New England and Eastern
Canada have interbred with wolves. And some are as large as 65 lbs.
When you mix coyote behavior with wolf size and strength you get
something more likely to be lethal. Wolves normally avoid humans.
Or at least the packs keep to themselves. Coyotes don't normally
form packs and are much more comfortable around humans. You are
more likely to get the problem we have here with cougars. A small
woman, running along a trail with her head down and her hands in her
pockets looks an awful lot like prey.
Jo
Enfilade
My father (who is from Ontario) was less interested in the lighthouses
and the ocean and the little houses and more interested in the fact
that in his opinion the soil is some of the most rotten farming soil
he'd ever seen and how he would hate to have to pick stones there
*rolls eyes* He was a lot more impressed with the Annapolis Valley
which is the farming region....the man needs to leave his work at home
(he is a farmer, hence the obsession....)
--Fil
Cheryl
> I used to live not far away in Halifax :)
>
> My father (who is from Ontario) was less interested in the lighthouses
> and the ocean and the little houses and more interested in the fact
> that in his opinion the soil is some of the most rotten farming soil
> he'd ever seen and how he would hate to have to pick stones there
> *rolls eyes* He was a lot more impressed with the Annapolis Valley
> which is the farming region....the man needs to leave his work at home
> (he is a farmer, hence the obsession....)
He clearly didn't reach Newfoundland if he thought Nova Scotia was bad
farming country! I mean, they don't call it 'the Rock' or refer to many
areas as 'the Barrens' for nothing!
I spent two summers in Halifax/Dartmouth many, many years ago, but I
don't know the province well. I visited Cape Breton (where the woman was
killed) with my family when I was a child.
Yes, MaryL, Peggy's Cove is very famous, but I don't think I've ever
been there! I did go on a weekend visit to one of the university towns
in the Annapolis Valley all those years ago - Acadia, maybe? St. Francis
Xavier is in NS somewhere, too.
My father was born and raised in Maine, and spent a good chunk of his
adult life in Newfoundland. Not surprisingly, he was fascinated by rocks
and the woods and wildlife.
--
Cheryl
Lesley
> He was a lot more impressed with the Annapolis Valley
> which is the farming region....the man needs to leave his work at home
> (he is a farmer, hence the obsession....)
>
said "This marble floor needs a good clean if I had my machine with me
I could do it" as he was standing in the registry office waiting to go
in and get married!
A while before that we were doing some shopping with him and there
were these kids that come up to you in the car park with buckets of
water and leathers and offer to wash your car, Leno ended up talking
to them for 20 or so minutes about where they got the water and what
polish they used!
Lesley
Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
Christina Websell
"Cheryl" <cper...@mun.ca> wrote in message
news:7mg854F...@mid.individual.net...
Jofirey
> For a deer, most of which (assuming he gets one) will be eaten by
> the 15
> felines in our care. Of course we will eat some too, and I will
> have lots of
> bones for stock, and maybe a hide if the tanning attempt turns out
> right.
> Deer-finding purrs appreciated!
>
I'm still wondering, did Dave get his deer?
Also curious as to the size of an average deer in your area. The
ones here are so much smaller than I would have ever thought.
Jo
Jo
Pat
"Jofirey" <jof...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
|
| I'm still wondering, did Dave get his deer?
Not yet. And today's the last day, and he's still in bed :(
| Also curious as to the size of an average deer in your area. The
| ones here are so much smaller than I would have ever thought.
Not sure... maybe 180 lbs.?
John F. Eldredge
> On Nov 15, 8:50 pm, "Pat" <just_a_ghost@in_this_house.us> wrote:
>> "Jofirey" <jofi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
>>
>> | I'm curious. Can and will a coyote bring down a small deer? Or do |
>> we need to bears and cougars to do that?
>>
>> I can't imagine a bear going after a deer. Coyotes will pack up to kill
>> larger game.
>
> I'm not sure. Coyotes don't disturb livestock here. I can't imagine them
> bringing down a deer. But I really don't know. This is breeding season,
> right now, and the deer are very active. We have seen lots of them, and
> have already seen a few killed by cars. The coyotes *do* eat them as
> roadkill, I've seen them doing it. Lots of men hunt deer here, and have
> some peculiar methods that involve
> freezing one's butt off in a deer stand and spraying oneself with some
> kind
> of spray manufactured with some kind of urine. I absolutely loathe the
> deer hunters. No offense. But I posted "no hunting" signs
> and they just ignore them. Or what's worse is the gung-ho hunters who
> start
> with bow season and black-powder season, and aren't good enough at it to
> actually bring the deer down. I can't stand the thought of just wounding
> them.
> Sherry
Given the relative sizes of coyotes and deer, I would imagine that they
would mostly prey on young, elderly, or injured deer. Of course, if
there is a shortage of other prey, a pack of coyotes could probably bring
down an adult deer, but the coyotes would probably get injured in the
process. I don't think that bears can move fast enough, for far enough,
to chase down a deer, so they would be limited to catching an unwary deer
by surprise, or finishing off an already-injured deer.
--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
Cheryl
>
> Given the relative sizes of coyotes and deer, I would imagine that they
> would mostly prey on young, elderly, or injured deer. Of course, if
> there is a shortage of other prey, a pack of coyotes could probably bring
> down an adult deer, but the coyotes would probably get injured in the
> process. I don't think that bears can move fast enough, for far enough,
> to chase down a deer, so they would be limited to catching an unwary deer
> by surprise, or finishing off an already-injured deer.
>
I think you're right in that bears generally prey on injured, sick or
young deer (they eat a suprising range of foods, including of course
fish and berries).
Although I doubt they can run fast enough to take down a healthy deer,
they can move suprisingly fast. Among the information I've heard
provided for people who might encounter a bear is the claim that they
can run a lot faster than you think they can - I assume this warning is
so that you don't assume you're a safe distance away when in fact the
bear can cover that distance quite quickly. Back before they started
improving dumps so that they attracted fewer bears, lots of people went
to the local dump to see the bears - I did myself with my family when I
was a child - and some idiots always try to get too close.
--
Cheryl
Enfilade
> > My father (who is from Ontario) was less interested in the lighthouses
> > and the ocean and the little houses and more interested in the fact
> > that in his opinion the soil is some of the most rotten farming soil
> > he'd ever seen and how he would hate to have to pick stones there
> > *rolls eyes* He was a lot more impressed with the Annapolis Valley
> > which is the farming region....the man needs to leave his work at home
> > (he is a farmer, hence the obsession....)
>
> He clearly didn't reach Newfoundland if he thought Nova Scotia was bad
> farming country! I mean, they don't call it 'the Rock' or refer to many
> areas as 'the Barrens' for nothing!
>
He went to Newfoundland this summer for the first time....I rather
wish I could have been along to see it.
We went camping in Cape Breton a few years ago. I'm certainly glad
not to have seen coyotes.
--Fil