Help! - peregrines are eating all my brother's doves.
ship
Yikes - Peregrines are eating all my brothers white (fantailed?)
doves.
We could shut them indoors for a few days, but there isnt much room
and it's not a good long-term solution.
How can we stop it?
Ship
Shiperton Henethe
P.S. My granny used to have 60 similar birds, and we think sparrow
hawk at the entire lot!
ship
P.S. Has anyone tried feeding them something weird (like kippers??) to
make their flesh taste horrible?
Phil Wilson
> Hi
>
> Yikes - Peregrines are eating all my brothers white (fantailed?)
> doves.
> We could shut them indoors for a few days, but there isnt much room
> and it's not a good long-term solution.
>
> How can we stop it?
Keep Peregrines instead.
Cheers,
Phil
ship
Are you serious?
Would keeping a peregrine scare off other peregrines?
What about sticking a stuffed peregrine on the roof of the house?
Or having a loud speaker broadcasting peregrine calls at rather large
volume?
Ship
Mike Coon
> P.S. Has anyone tried feeding them something weird (like kippers??) to
> make their flesh taste horrible?
1) You might get Ospreys eating them instead (they're fish eaters)! ;-)
2) Birds aren't generally considered not to have much sense of taste, so may
not be effective.
Breed sacrificial rabbits as well/instead?
Mike.
--
If reply address is invalid, remove spurious "@" and substitute "plus"
where needed.
Phil Wilson
> On Jun 2, 5:42 pm, "Phil Wilson" <philip.wil...@talk21.com> wrote:
>> ship wrote:
>>> Hi
>>
>>> Yikes - Peregrines are eating all my brothers white (fantailed?)
>>> doves.
>>> We could shut them indoors for a few days, but there isnt much
>>> room
>>> and it's not a good long-term solution.
>>
>>> How can we stop it?
>>
>> Keep Peregrines instead.
>
> Are you serious?
Half-so. This is an insoluble problem. If you let doves fly free you
are ringing the dinner bell for any wild predator capable of taking
them.
The following doesn't refer to you at all, but is just my general take
on things.
As it happens I prefer Peregrines to domestic pigeons. Short of a
practical solution to prevent any wild raptor taking a bird (netting
etc) you just have to accept that in our society there's a balance to
be struck between some people's desire to preserve wild Peregrines and
Sparrowhawks, and others equally legitimate (though more
'interventionist') desire to keep ornamental domestic birds. All I can
say is that my solution (ignore any losses) is less interventionist
than some others' (persecute wild raptors). Anyway Peregrines are
mostly confined to less-populated areas (that the opposite impression
is sometimes got is because those that aren't become newsworthy). The
numbers overall lost to Peregrines of pigeons from lofts will
therefore be relatively tiny, compared with the pigeon population as a
whole (most Peregrines don't feed exclusively on domestic birds). I
know this is not likely to make you feel any better, but it doesn't
make me feel a lot worse.
What I do feel is wrong is that human gambling (which, though pigeon
fanciers claim to be 'fond' of their birds, could be carried out in
any particular form) should cause our native wildlife to disappear.
This approach seems lacking in that balance that I was talking about.
But, as I say, it's often an impasse between two mutually exclusive
points of view.
The serious half of my half-joke was that I can't understand why
people like 'keeping' birds, anyway. If you don't race them for momey,
sorry...sport,, what do you get from them, that you couldn't get from
a wild bird? I just don't understand the need to 'possess' living
things, unless you're going to kill them and eat them afterward. I
can't understand the whole 'pets' thing anyway. It's one thing to have
animals about, quite another to want to live with them, talk to them
and provide them with 'personalities they neither have nor could have.
Some people talk to dogs as if they were human.
Does that make things any clearer?
Cheers,
Phil
BAC
"ship" <shi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9e89e947-7f90-4033...@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
That would probably scare away any wild pigeons, perhaps making the falcons
more likely to prey on the domesticated doves.
ship
> "ship" <ship...@gmail.com> wrote in message
I'm not completely convinced by any of the arguments here.
One thing I should explain is that the doves live in a courtyard
and are quite tame. Therein could lie their one chance. The peregrines
are extremely shy - albeit determined. Hence something like loud
speakers
might well scare off the peregrines. Afterall the peregrine nest is a
few miles away
and there would be plenty other food nearer them.
Also have you ever tried eating chickens that have been fed kippers?
They and their eggs taste disgusting - so I reckon it's worth a shot.
A long-shot I agree. But all these doves are very distinctive - and if
the peregrine came to associate white doves with rather a nasty
breakfast you never know - it might encourage it to better tasting
food.
As to the ideas that peregrines have poor taste - does anyone here
KNOW this for a fact? I do know that they die if they eat just rabbit.
Perhaps someone from alt.falconry could comment...
Ship
Mike Coon
> The serious half of my half-joke was that I can't understand why
> people like 'keeping' birds, anyway. If you don't race them for momey,
> sorry...sport,, what do you get from them, that you couldn't get from
> a wild bird? I just don't understand the need to 'possess' living
> things, unless you're going to kill them and eat them afterward. I
> can't understand the whole 'pets' thing anyway. It's one thing to have
> animals about, quite another to want to live with them, talk to them
> and provide them with 'personalities they neither have nor could have.
> Some people talk to dogs as if they were human.
I remember being quite fond of our family budgie, cantankerous sod though it
was. It certainly couldn't be "petted", though it was prepared to be social
on its own terms.
And I gather that it is well established that pettable creatures are good
for people especially if solitary or handicapped in some way. (Sorry, that's
the people not the pets!) So dogs are taken into hospitals. I know people
that keep decorative fish, but suspect that they would be equally happy with
an HD animation on their TV...
Talking to animals is cathartic, too. I find it quite natural to chat to
"my" Robin while dishing out its mealworms. Sad?
Christina Websell
> Hi
>
> Yikes - Peregrines are eating all my brothers white (fantailed?)
> doves.
> We could shut them indoors for a few days, but there isnt much room
> and it's not a good long-term solution.
>
> How can we stop it?
I don't think you can, unless your brother builds an aviary for them and
keeps them in there for a while. Maybe if he did it for a few months the
peregrines might stop coming for an easy meal and he could try letting them
out again.
It's a very similar scenario when a fox discovers free range chickens. They
just come back and back and back until they are all gone, and why wouldn't
they? Beats bothering their ar** to hunt anyday. It's about easy
targets..
I don't have quite as much of a problem here about fox/chickens as I can
legally kill foxes should I choose to, but peregrines/doves is an entirely
different thing because of it being illegal to kill peregrines.
I hope your brother finds a solution.
Tina
Dave
"Mike Coon" <Mike@@mjcoon.+.com> wrote in message
news:AaCdnXalVcCL5dnV...@posted.plusnet...
> Phil Wilson wrote:
>> The serious half of my half-joke was that I can't understand why
>> people like 'keeping' birds, anyway. If you don't race them for momey,
<snip>
I know people
> that keep decorative fish, but suspect that they would be equally happy
> with an HD animation on their TV...
>
> Talking to animals is cathartic, too. I find it quite natural to chat to
> "my" Robin while dishing out its mealworms. Sad?
>
> Mike.
> --
> If reply address is invalid, remove spurious "@" and substitute "plus"
> where needed.
Talking of decorative fish, one of my friends had a large pond with
beautiful Koi carp. Some were valued at over £200. He lost the lot when an
otter (or two) feasted on them all one night. I've heard of herons
attacking garden ponds but this was a 'first' for me.
Cheers,
Dave.
--
"It is very strange, and very melancholy, that the paucity of human
pleasures should persuade us ever to call hunting one of them."
Samuel Johnson.
http://www.daviv.com Webcam & videos of badgers and foxes on our patio
and bluetits in their nestbox.
BAC
On Jun 2, 7:51 pm, "BAC" <cassw...@NOSPAMdircon.co.uk> wrote:
> "ship" <ship...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:9e89e947-7f90-4033...@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 2, 5:42 pm, "Phil Wilson" <philip.wil...@talk21.com> wrote:
>
>Also have you ever tried eating chickens that have been fed kippers?
>They and their eggs taste disgusting - so I reckon it's worth a shot.
>A long-shot I agree. But all these doves are very distinctive - and if
>the peregrine came to associate white doves with rather a nasty
>breakfast you never know - it might encourage it to better tasting
>food.
>As to the ideas that peregrines have poor taste - does anyone here
>KNOW this for a fact? I do know that they die if they eat just rabbit.
>Perhaps someone from alt.falconry could comment...
I don't know whether peregrines have a poor sense of taste, but I do know
they do not feed exclusively on pigeons, nor even on birds. They have even
been reported to have scavenged dead fish carcasses, so, if they're hungry
enough, I doubt whether a taste of kipper would put them off.
Nevertheless, I understand the UK Raptor Working Group was working on
evaluating means of deterrence of peregrines and sparrowhawks in the
vicinity of pigeon lofts, but I don't know whether the 'kipper' method has
been under investigation.
There was consideration of the effectiveness of various means of 'loft'
deterrents published in
http://www.snh.org.uk/pdfs/PIGEONS_RAPTORS_REPORT.pdf
(an interesting read in its own right)
but I regret I don't believe you will find the 'results' very encouraging.
Phil Wilson
> Phil Wilson wrote:
>> The serious half of my half-joke was that I can't understand why
>> people like 'keeping' birds, anyway. If you don't race them for
>> momey, sorry...sport,, what do you get from them, that you couldn't
>> get from a wild bird? I just don't understand the need to 'possess'
>> living things, unless you're going to kill them and eat them
>> afterward. I can't understand the whole 'pets' thing anyway. It's
>> one thing to have animals about, quite another to want to live with
>> them, talk to them and provide them with 'personalities they
>> neither
>> have nor could have. Some people talk to dogs as if they were
>> human.
>
> I remember being quite fond of our family budgie, cantankerous sod
> though it was. It certainly couldn't be "petted", though it was
> prepared to be social on its own terms.
>
> And I gather that it is well established that pettable creatures are
> good for people especially if solitary or handicapped in some way.
> (Sorry, that's the people not the pets!) So dogs are taken into
> hospitals. I know people that keep decorative fish, but suspect that
> they would be equally happy with an HD animation on their TV...
How do people (of a social species) become 'solitary'? What was once a
bohemian choice available to the (generally wealthy and or religious)
few (and by no means universally regarded as a desirable objective) is
now the norm, but usually as 'loneliness', not 'solitude'..
> Talking to animals is cathartic, too. I find it quite natural to
> chat
> to "my" Robin while dishing out its mealworms. Sad?
Not at all, as long as you don't start imagining it's talking back to
you by way of conversation. You know the saying: 'If a lion could
talk, it wouldn't be a lion.'
Cheers,
Phil
Phil Wilson
> Not at all, as long as you don't start imagining it's talking back
> to
> you by way of conversation. You know the saying: 'If a lion could
> talk, it wouldn't be a lion.'
Hmm, this seems to have been Wittgenstein's observation originally,
being 'If a lion could talk, we could not understand him'. Which is
debatable. My version which maybe should have read 'it would no longer
be a lion.' I thnk derives from a biologist in the 1980s and strikes
me as unquestionably true.
Cheers,
Phil
Mike Coon
> Not at all, as long as you don't start imagining it's talking back to
> you by way of conversation. You know the saying: 'If a lion could
> talk, it wouldn't be a lion.'
I'm still sure that the Robin which tapped on my window last year right
where I was sitting was attracting my attention to refresh its mealworm
supply. Not a complex communication, but directed nevertheless.
Phil Wilson
> Phil Wilson wrote:
>> Not at all, as long as you don't start imagining it's talking back
>> to
>> you by way of conversation. You know the saying: 'If a lion could
>> talk, it wouldn't be a lion.'
>
> I'm still sure that the Robin which tapped on my window last year
> right where I was sitting was attracting my attention to refresh its
> mealworm supply. Not a complex communication, but directed
> nevertheless.
Oh yes. In semiotics, every movement of the body or sound of the voice
is communication. Talking is more. This is what distinguishes our
lives from those of animals, for whom there presumably can be no
'might be', only 'what is'.
Cheers,
Phil
PigeonRescue
Try a large plastic owl. This past winter small birds got used to
resting in our small spruce and a small hawk would wait for them and
caught two of them before I put a large plastic owl next to the tree.
The little birds and the hawk stay away. I miss the little birds but
it is better this way.
In Colorado, (believe) seven people were arrested for killing hawks
that were killing their pigeons. They used traps, guns, and whatever.
One of the pigeon lovers was interviewed after his arrest and said
that he would do it again if he had to. Tough call.
Gwyddno
Hmm, interesting discussion. I know that when we were losing eggs to
magpies, we took to blowing out a couple of those that survived,
replacing the contents with English mustard and replacing them in the
nest boxes. It certainly deterred them.
Unfortuately, we are no longer able to keep hens due to the
intervention of our neighbourhood goshawk. About the only thing I can
think might deter said visitor is running a flock of geese with a
territorial gander with the hens but we haven't tried this yet.
Failing that, I think an old breed turkey stag but I'm afraid I could
be prosecuted if the two got into a fight - I'm pretty sure, based on
past experience, that the hawk would come off second best.
Might it be worth leaving some bait for the peregrines - maybe a dead
dove or a pigeon from the market liberally smeared with mustard and
tabasco? Just a suggestion - though you might be prosecuted under the
terrorism act for WMD possession and attempted bioterrorism...
Phil Wilson
> In Colorado, (believe) seven people were arrested for killing hawks
> that were killing their pigeons. They used traps, guns, and
> whatever.
> One of the pigeon lovers was interviewed after his arrest and said
> that he would do it again if he had to. Tough call.
Not a tough call at all, at least in the UK. KIlling Peregrines is
breaking the law. Get the law changed, or leave hawks alone is the
right call, at the moment. Or suffer any legal consequences.
Cheers,
Phil
Geopelia
"Gwyddno" <Iei...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:477b465a-bbce-4da4...@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
Isn't tabasco made from chillies? Birds lack the nociceptor that detects the
heat. That is why mammals (except humans!) avoid eating chillies, but birds
eat them. Red canaries used to be fed cayenne pepper to improve their
colour.
A peregrine probably wouldn't be deterred by tabasco.
Can a peregrine be trapped and rehomed, or is that illegal?
Geopelia