Hello Esteeed Smarter People than me,

I need your opinions. Myu wife and I are thinking about buying a 25
foot Airstream International. The question remains; What should I tow
it with?

I want (that is my word) a Ford F-250 SD Diesel. I heard they get
better mpg than gas, they have more power and the 07's and later use
the ULSD fuel. How does a Diesel compare to a gas model as far as
emissions go? I  am wondering if any of you would be willing to offer
an opinion.

thanks,

John

On 28 Dec 2006 23:30:30 -0800, "aaajn" <aa...@comcast.net> wrote:

The choice of diesel or gas is yours.  I would definitely go with a
3/4 ton truck, over a 1/2 ton. IOW a GM 2500 or Ford F250.

I tow a 25' Airstream Classic with an F-250 Diesel. (7.3 Powerstroke).

It's wonderful in the mountains, my trailer is heavier than the CCD.

It's not inexpensive to have a diesel, the truck initially costs more
and fuel is more.  It does get better mileage, but the costs of buying
and feeding it won't be made up in the mileage difference.

If you plan to do lots of mountain driving and use it often, get the
diesel, the torque is worth it.

If you live in flat country and plan to use it for occasional
weekends, get gas.

You are welcome to join my Airstream elist....

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AirstreamList/

Hunter

I have an '01 F350 with the 7.3.  The emissions are different, not more
than gas.  I get way better mileage towing than the V10 gas motor does.  

Stay away from the '03 to '07 6.0 liter engine.  There's been lots of rear
seal problems and other issues.  If possible, get an '07 with the  newer
engine, 6.9 L I believe.  It uses the newer Ultra Low sulfur fuel.  It's
supposed to be a more reliable engine than the 6 L.  

--
Frank Tabor
mixed emotions:
        Watching your mother-in-law back off a cliff...
        in your brand new Mercedes.

Not necessarily.  There will be plenty of stations that haven't changed
over yet, and haven't used up their stock of LSD yet.  Besides, it will
still be awhile before the engines requiring ULSD will become commonplace.
The engines are only required in vehicles produced after Jan 1.

--
Frank Tabor
The F-15 Eagle:
        If it's up, we'll shoot it down.  If it's down, we'll blow it up.
                -- A McDonnell-Douglas ad from a few years ago

In article <12pa8jaeh0jb...@corp.supernews.com>, fta...@gmail.com
says...
Isn't that going to be a bit difficult--the new engine won't be
available until the 08 models--afaik ALL the 07 diesel's have the 6.0
and can use either LSD or ULSD--the new engine HAS to have ULSD, a mute
point since there won't be any LSD by then.

Some of the experts :-) over at Ford diesel group are actually
recommending the last 6.0's over the unknowns--and major complications--
of the new one!
--
Jud
Dallas TX USA

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 14:35:45 -0000, Frank Tabor <fta...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Not so because stations refill often and it does not matter if new
engines require it or not because it is a EPA mandate the ALL fuel
will be low sulpher period. When I filled up my heating oil tank in
october it was low sulpher. I can tell because when the wind is right
the furnace has a different smell to it now. (basically no sulpher
smell now) Below is a link to some info on LSD and ULSD fuel.

http://forum.snoman.com/viewtopic.php?t=227
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 14:12:58 -0000, Frank Tabor <fta...@gmail.com>
wrote:

How very untrue. Diesels may be low on CO and hydrocarbon emissions in
PPM but they are bad on soot emissions and suck on NOx emmision (5 to
10 times worse than a gas motor) Diesels have gotten by because they
have had the excause of poor fuel quality well no more. Starting in 08
they will actually have CATs too (not just thermal reactors to help
control soot that are typically mistaken for CATs) They will also have
strict requirements to reduce NOx emmisions a lot and not just LD
trucks either. Semis will soon have CATs too. If you look at PPM on
emmisions they might not look too bad but when you consider them in
grams per mile they suck because they move a lot moper air through
engine which while this may dilute PPM it does not dilute grams per
mile. The EPA stated when they made the rule change on fuel that
diesel are now today the single biggest source of transportion
emission problems. They supassed gas vehicles as the leading cause
some time ago. Some would like to believe otherwise though. Strict
emission controls on diesels are long overdue as gas engine have been
"fighting" them for over 30 years now.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 08:56:39 -0600, Jud Hardcastle

Let someone else be the test dummy for the new PS from Ford. Be it a
engine or tranny from Ford, GM or Dodge it is not usually wise to buy
the first year of a completely new design as it can take a while to
get the bugs out of it. The 6.0 PS's track record was trouble some at
best whne new though it promised otherwise
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

news:1167377430.066135.256960@a3g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

Powerstrokes have been having major engine issues for 3-4 years now with
nothing 'greatly' improved in the very near future.  Its a wonder folks
still purchase Ford Diesels.  Maybe it is the need to be yet, another guinne
pig.

FMB
(North Mexico)

The only point I'll address is on fuel. I was driving a ford diesel
until I bought the 2000 ford V-10 that I tow my 35 foot Avion with. It
has more than enough umpt to pull any pull behind trailer. The V-10 is
a proven engine, unlike the new diesel. Last, because of cost
difference in engines and fuel, you'll never make up the difference in
cost because of lower mileage and the V-10 is less noisey and smells
better!!

Tom J

news:12pa8jaeh0jb4ac@corp.supernews.com...

Rear seals?  Lots?

The 6.0 is plaqued with retarded turbos that don't respond to fuel pedal on
take-offs.  They are plagued with piss poor pcm PROGRAMS THAT MAKE THE
TORQUER SHIFT TRANNY SHIft at the wrong times (bucking and jerking when
towing).  They are plaqued with EGR valves that get crusted over and stop
working.  They are plagued with oil driven injectors...and therefore prone
to HPOP failures.  But I have seen very very very few with rear seals on the
engine, tranny or differentials failing.  One thing neat about the 6.0 is
that International decided the best way to stop diesel engines from leaking
is to put all the oil seals inside the crankcase.  This way...if the engine
leaks oil it leaks it right back into the crank case.  No more worrying
about that dreaded oil spot in the drive way that 7.3 liter engines left.
Ford and International put an awful lot of seals in the 7.3s under warranty.
I was scheduled to have my pan gasket replaced right beofre I totaled
it...that would have required removal of the engine...that's a big ticket
item for Ford to take a hit on for a silly oil leak that does not cause
performance issues.

Nate

news:MPG.1ffee8a6255349149899af@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net...

They are recommending it only because they got gun shy when the 6.0 was
released.  It turned out to be a lesser engine than it's predesecsor.  Fact
is...the 6.4 is an improved 6.0.  They replaced the HPOP driven injectors
with piezo electric injectors.  They replaced the big turbo that has very
noticable turbo lag with a dual, smaller turbo.  One turbo spins up for take
off from a stop and the other kicks in when needed.  The smaller turbo
spools up faster.

Will there be problems with the 6.4?  Posible.  Will Ford stand behind it
and fix the problems?  They've been trying like hell to fix the issues with
the 6.0.  A new PCM calibration seems to come out monthly from
International.  YOu have to give credit when it is due...they are trying
like hell.

Nate

news:PSalh.1063$ji1.388@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...

People buy Ford PSDs because you get more bang for you buck with them.  Most
of the trucks work just fine.  But they do have a higher than normal rate of
return.

Nate

fuck off,
Snoman.  You're an idiot.

--
Frank Tabor
I live the way I type; fast, with a lot of mistakes.

Fuck off, Snoman, you're an idiot.

--
Frank Tabor
Take an astronaut to launch.

The so called '08 is being released shortly after the New Year.

--
Frank Tabor
To our sweethearts and wives.  May they never meet.
                -- 19th century toast

You could be comparing apples and oranges. You
bought a 2000 V-10 to replace a diesel of
undoubtedly older vintage. With the advancing
technology of the automotive world, you must
compare the same model year engines. If the
2000, V-10 was not better than an older vintage
  diesel something would be bad wrong. The Ford
engine in the late 90's had many problems and
was very noisy and smelly. But then most
diesels were.
In my opinion, the diesel has much better
performance and reliability than any gas engine
of comparable vintage. However the Cumins has
the most reliable performance history. Of
course, obviously I drive a Dodge Ram with the
Cumins. But I bought it only due to
availability, my knowledge of it's reliability
came from experience, with it.
I find that Ford is like riding a steel wheeled
wagon, take a cushion with you.
I really do not think the Duromax has built a
reputation yet, not that it wont, but it is a
relatively new kid on the block. Not to mention
the earlier GM feasko in providing a
counterfeit diesel, retooled gas block.

--

BILL P.
Just Me
and DOG

2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram,
SWB, 2WD, Short Bed
5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans,
Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner,
Husky 16K,Slider. Voyager Controller
2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi.
Dual Battery Banks,one Gp.31 and
two 6volt AGM Trojan Batteries,with selector
for either bank or both at the same time.
1500watt Vector Inverter
Dual EU2000i Hondas

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 17:01:18 -0000, Frank Tabor <fta...@gmail.com>
wrote:

You are the inmature child here as other can plainly see by you
comments. Does it give you a fix and make you feel powerfull to cuss
and name call in a news group??? When you do not understan sometihing
it must be wrong huh?
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 17:00:37 -0000, Frank Tabor <fta...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Twice in one thread!!  What every helps you get you fix. You must be
VERY insecure. I actually feel sorry for you.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

news:1167377430.066135.256960@a3g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

John...a lot of advice has been given so far.  You'll have to wade through
it all and make your own mind up.  I'll give you my own opinion now that I
have tried to clear up some of the info posted.

I owned a 2003 PSD with a 7.3 liter in it.  I loved that truck.  It leaked
oil.  I hated that.  It was scheduled to be fixed.  At 73,000 miles it ran
like it was brand new.  I beat the hell out of that truck and could not
break it.  My wife figured out how to break it.  It is now totaled.  I
replaced it with a 2006 6.0 liter PSD.  The 6.0 has noticably less
power...but they make up for that by authorizing it to have higher RPMs (in
the PCM) and 5 usable gears in the transmission (the 7.3 was linked to a 4
speed).  The torque bands have just been moved.  It will move a big load.  I
liked the power of the 7.3 more...but I am not unhappy with the power of the
6.0.

The 6.0 came out in the later part of the 2003 MY offerings.  I purposely
looked for a 7.3 when I bought my first truck.  I did not want to be part of
the testing of the new engine.  I was very pleased.

The 6.0 had been out over three years when I bought mine.  It still had some
problems.  Mine had to be reporgrammed at less than 2000 miles because it
bucked and jerked when pulling a load.  When  I went down a grade and
started to climb back out...right in the valley...the truck just got bogged
down and could not get the right gear to climb out of that valley.  You let
off the go pedal for just a second and it cleared itself and ran fine.  The
new PCM program changed the shifting stratagy to eliminate this issue.

I now have 20,000 miles and my instrument cluster crapped out.  This is a
known issue.  Ford knows the supplier of the clusters put out a bad batch of
them...for like three years.  They are replacing them as they go out.  Mine
is on back order...to be delivered in the first quarter of 2007.  The dealer
I use for repairs has 7 of them on back order...or at least they did two
weeks ago when I called the regional rep to discuss the saftey issue of
driving without a speedometer.  The regional rep told me to call him if I
get a speeding ticket or in an accident related to me not knowing how fast I
am going...LOL  Gotta love those guys...they are good at controlling
customer's tempers.

The only other issue I have had with my truck is the weak flimsy front
bumper.  I tried crossing a small creek back in Novemebr but did not realize
the creek had washed out the road bed.  The bumper hit the oposite side bank
of the creek and just folded.  I was not traveling fast...it was a two rut
trail and it was dark so I was moving very slowly on this road I'd never
been on before.  My license plate braket just fell off.  I used a tanker bar
and straightened it out...but then hit a doe on the way back to camp and
re-bent it.  I was going about 25 MPH when I hit her.  I guess I would
expect the bumper to fold on that impact.  But it should not have folded on
the creek.  But that is a very minor issue in my humble opinion.

The 6.0 liter engine has a very noticable turbo lag.  When you are at a stop
and you mash on the go pedal the PCM ignores the command from the go pedal
until it builds up aenough turbo pressure (boost) to handle the amount of
fuel being called for.  This usually happens on my truck at 2,000 RPMs.
So...when you try to pull out into traffic from a stop you are going to have
some people behind you get pissed.  It takes about 4 seconds for the truck
to slowly roll out there and get the RPMs up to 2,000...then hold onto your
belley cuz your head will be in the back seat...I mean it really goes!  I
hate this about this truck.  And there is nothing Ford or International is
going to do about it.  They designed it to do this so that they could reduce
the amount of black smoke out of the tail pipe.

Chevy and Dodge both eliminated the black smoke without retarding the turbo.
Why can't Ford?  The 6.4 that comes out this year (MY 2008 will be released
soon) eliminates the black smoke without a retarded turbo.

In my opinion...if you can afford paying just a little more...take a close
look at the Duramax.  I wanted one real bad but the local dealers all
stocked these trucks with leather interior, DVD players in the back,
On-Star, useless security systems and other crap I did not need that is
designed to increase the profits for ther local dealers.  I could not even
order the truck the way I wanted it configured...no matter how I ordered it
I got something I did not want that was very expensive.  But now that I have
20,000 miles on my Ford I wish I had just paid for the stupid On-Star and
DVD player cuz no one tells you you have to turn them on.

Am I completely unhappy?  No!  I love my truck.  Do I have my fair share of
problems?  Yes.  But all brands have some problems.  The Chevy/Duramax has
less leg room in the back seat of a crew cab...but otherwise was a much
nicer truck and I would own one if I was not such a cheap bastard.

Theres more to this story...but I have to get back to work now.  Hope some
of this helps in your decision.  Don't expect to recoup the initial expense
in fuel savings.  ...your wife will just throw that in your face after a few
months.  If you want to pull a heavy load without worrying...get a diesel.
If you want to save money and don't care about driving slow on big
passes...get a gasser.

The difference between a f250 and an f350 is a spring pack in the rear axle.
There are some other minor differences...but that's the jist of it.  An F250
will pull the same load a F350 will...but you can put more weight in the bed
of an F350.  The price difference is negligable.  Take a close look at the
350...you'll be happy if you do.  I don't know the difference on the other
brands...but I expect they are the same deal.

Nate

news:12pa9u1ebftvt8f@corp.supernews.com...

Just out of curosity I went to the Flying J web site to see how many of
their stations had each type of diesel.  The site showed both LSD and ULSD
were available at 81 stations, ULSD only was available at 122 stations and
only 36 stations did not have ULSD.  Only about 15% of Flying J stations
don't have ULSD.  This may or may not be representative of all stations.

Seems like I heard or read somewhere that some types of off road vehicles
could continue to use LSD for years to come.  Probably applies to heavy
equipment, farm tractors, etc.

Ron

news:45954b90@newsgate.x-privat.org...

The older Fords (2004 and earlier) were rough riding.  The new coil over
suspension made them as smooth as a Dodge.  But Chevy still has the best
ride with that IFS front end.

Who told you the Cummins is most reliable?  Or are you specifically talking
about YOUR Cummins?

All the dealers told me that they were the only ones offering a true diesel
engine.  At least two of them lied...me thinks they all lied.  Even
so...what is specifically wrong with the 're-tooled' gas block?  And what
proof do you have that it used a 're-tooled gas block'?

Nate

news:1167377430.066135.256960@a3g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

Educate yourself on the three brands of diesels.  These three websites cover
the good and the bad in detail:

http://www.thedieselstop.com/
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/
http://www.thedieselpage.com/

Also, the forums at www.rv.net are invaluable.

Diesels cost more, deliver better fuel economy, and are MUCH better with a
load behind going uphill.  Being from the east, I decided on my first trip
out west that I would have a diesel before I went west again!

Good Luck!
John

On 28 Dec 2006 23:30:30 -0800, "aaajn" <aa...@comcast.net> wrote:

Asking questions like this is likely to start a religious war.

My brother is a field rep for Blue Diamond Motors, the marketing company
jointly owned by Ford and International (Navistar).  His job is to call on Ford
dealers to help them sell and service Powerstroke Diesel engines.  Contrary
to some ill informed opinions found on this and other newsgroups, the 6.0L
engine has more hp and torque than the 7.3L engine that preceeded it.  The
6.0L had some serious problems in the factory for the first 6 months of
manufacture.  Since that time the engine has been rock solid.

I bought a 2005 F350 diesel two years ago and except for a fuel filter sensor
that was covered by warranty at 34,000 miles my engine and truck have
been perfect.  I pull a 13,000 pound 5th wheel and have driven 40,000 miles
in the past 24 months, which 20,000 pulling the trailer.  I average 10mpg
pulling the trailer and 18mpg not pulling it.  I barely have to touch the brakes
going down mountain passes thanks to the towing mode of the transmission.

I all my travels from WA to CA to FL to MI and places in between diesel
sometimes costs 50 cents a gallon more than gasoline and sometimes it
costs less than gasoline.

Now if only it would wash itself.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Only from stocks. By 2013 sulpher will basically be gone from all
diesel fuel (less than 2 PPM) in current time line.  
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com