OT: Windows 8

[RonB]

I know there are some computer guys here so:

I had my first chance to use Windows 8 this past weekend on our Daughter's new computer. We are getting to the point where we need to replace laptops:

- Is there any way to say no?
- Is there a classic view? I couldn't find one.

This software is ridiculous even in a touch screen environment which we won't have.

[Bob Hatch]

You can still buy Windows 7 computers.

http://search.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=us&l=en&cs=&k=windows+7+desktop&cat=all&ref=ac

http://search.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=us&l=en&cs=&k=windows+7+laptop&cat=all&ref=ac

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Toshiba+-+15.6%22+Satellite+Notebook+-+4+GB+Memory+-+640+GB+Hard+Drive/1305629019.p?id=mp1305629019&skuId=1305629019

--
I do not carry a gun hoping that
I'll be able to shoot someone, anymore than
I carry a jack hoping I'll have a flat
tire.
Me.

[RonB]

Thanks Guys: The interface is foreign to a guy who graduated from punch-cards to A:\ a FEW years ago. :0)

RonB

[Will Sill]

There is a way to say 'no' -- spend some extra bux, go to Apple, and
endure the learning curve.

I did that a year ago. Got sick to death of constantly changing Windoze
features. My conclusion: Mac is different but not a lot 'better". It
seems far more immune to malware, is very fast (iMac with 10.7.5 OS),
but help screens are - if anything - more useless than Windoze.

Will - not recommending, just suggesting you take a look.

[George Anthony]

"RonB" <rnrb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:edc9a40c-75e7-4ba6...@googlegroups.com...

Bought the wife a touch-screen utrabook about a month ago. I don't like it
but she seems to be getting the "feel" of it. I guess it's like most new
things, it takes a while to acclimate.

[K Miller]

RonB wrote:
> I know there are some computer guys here so:
>
> I had my first chance to use Windows 8 this past weekend on our
> Daughter's new computer. We are getting to the point where we need
> to replace laptops:
>
> - Is there any way to say no?

Yes.

> - Is there a classic view? I couldn't find one.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33642_7-57496506-292/how-to-get-the-start-menu-back-in-windows-8/

>
> This software is ridiculous even in a touch screen environment which
> we won't have.

Why not? And, if you won't have it, how do you know it's ridiculous?

[D-R]

On 5/9/2013 5:35 AM, RonB wrote:

I have had a 8 machine for a few months and I use the desktop most
of the time. It is almost the same as 7 and there are apps that make it
act the same. 8 seems to be orientated to touch screen and unlimited
high speed internet access. I have that in the summer house and find 8
no more annoying than I did 7. Just a big learning curve. I got it
because it is most likely the future and I might as well learn it...
And I also did start in computers with punch cards... was on DARPAnet
too.....

--

AJ - up in the Arizona mountains

[Frank Howell]

No classic view for now, but Microsoft is now considering a change to allow
users to get rid of the tiles and use a classic screen.
http://tinyurl.com/d435yu7

--
Frank Howell

[Hunter Hampton]

On 5/9/2013 5:35 AM, RonB wrote:

> I had my first chance to use Windows 8 this past weekend on our Daughter's new computer. We are getting to the point where we need to replace laptops:
>
> - Is there any way to say no?
> - Is there a classic view? I couldn't find one.
>
> This software is ridiculous even in a touch screen environment which we won't have.

I just bought a new ThinkPad 15" laptop... with windows 7 Professional....

Windows 8 is a huge failure.... and fortunately you can buy 7s all over
the Internet... harder to find in stores though.

Hunter

[Hunter Hampton]

On 5/9/2013 5:46 AM, Evan Platt wrote:
> You can try to find a laptop with Windows 7. There are some still out
> there.

There are lots and lots of them...

Hunter

[George Anthony]

"Frank Howell" <fpho...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:518bb437$0$7524$c3e8da3$12bc...@news.astraweb.com...

You might want to try Classic Shell in the interim.

[Jim Rusling]

"George Anthony" <gant...@gmail.net> wrote:

<snip>

>
>You might want to try Classic Shell in the interim.

I run this on my Surface Pro and it helps a lot.
--
Jim Rusling
More or Less Retired
Mustang, OK

[RonB]

I put 4-5 hours on it this weekend - That was about enough to tell.

RonB

[RonB]

Is there any way it will just default to the desktop? I kept searching the corners and sometimes it is there sometimes it is the last application I used.

RonB

[nothermark]

On Thu, 9 May 2013 15:09:29 -0700 (PDT), RonB <rnrb...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Someone posted two links about Win 8 that were I found interesting but
was too busy to get into when they were posted. Thank you to the OP!
Here they are:

http://hal2020.com/2012/02/12/windows-8-is-not-all-about-tablets-its-about-the-future/


http://hal2020.com/2013/03/07/what-if-microsoft-had-done-windows-8-differently/

They help explain some of the issues. So far at least part of it is a
sell job by Microsoft for another failure to listen or ignoring the
desktop user. I am not sure which. The Guru base seems entralled
with selling us complete connection services so we never go without. I
am not all that excited about the idea as I do not want all my
business shared all over the place.

[D-R]

On 5/9/2013 3:11 PM, RonB wrote:

>
> Is there any way it will just default to the desktop? I kept searching the corners and sometimes it is there sometimes it is the last application I used.
>
> RonB
>

When 8 comes up just hit the enter key and that should take you to
the desktop. Also it might help to turn off most of the live tiles.
Then you can switch between the tiles and the desktop by hitting the
windows key.

[D-R]

Just an additional thing.. if you activate a tile you can exit it
by hitting Alt- F4

[Neville MADDEN]

nothermark <nothe...@not.here> wrote in
news:mhfoo89l3k0ik844c...@4ax.com:

> On Thu, 9 May 2013 15:09:29 -0700 (PDT), RonB <rnrb...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Thursday, May 9, 2013 9:28:01 AM UTC-5, K Miller wrote:
>>> RonB wrote:
>>>
>>> > I know there are some computer guys here so:
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > I had my first chance to use Windows 8 this past weekend on our
>>>
>>> > Daughter's new computer. We are getting to the point where we
>>> > need
>>>
>>> > to replace laptops:
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > - Is there any way to say no?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > - Is there a classic view? I couldn't find one.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33642_7-57496506-292/how-to-get-the-star
>>> t-menu-back-in-windows-8/
>>>
>>>

>
>

> Someone posted two links about Win 8 that were I found interesting but
> was too busy to get into when they were posted. Thank you to the OP!
> Here they are:
>
> http://hal2020.com/2012/02/12/windows-8-is-not-all-about-tablets-its-ab
> out-the-future/
>
>
> http://hal2020.com/2013/03/07/what-if-microsoft-had-done-windows-8-diff
> erently/
>
> They help explain some of the issues. So far at least part of it is a
> sell job by Microsoft for another failure to listen or ignoring the
> desktop user. I am not sure which. The Guru base seems entralled
> with selling us complete connection services so we never go without. I
> am not all that excited about the idea as I do not want all my
> business shared all over the place.
>

Here is a good thought. Why not start the laptop with a Linux CD and
format the C Drive. Then get hold of a copy of Windoze 7 and install
that.

I tried to help a fellow student with an assignment on a Windows 8 laptop
and we wasted more time than was spent helping her just to get the
programs working.

Nifty

[nothermark]

The way they are going why not start the computer with Linux CD format
the HD and load Linux? ;-)

I have not looked around but it occurs to me most of today's software
started as Unixware or Unixware eqivalents. It seems to me that there
should be some pretty good software around. Maybe Apple needs to
start selling a few killer apps. ;-)

I long ago decided that if I was going to learn a graphics program
GIMP made more sense than Adobe strictly on price. So far I have
avoided both. Office got so bad I went to Open or LIbre Office. I
simply do not need all the bells and whistles. I have a legal copy of
Autocad 11 and a computer that will run it that does all I need. My
ideal is not a tablet. It is a dual 24" screen so I can multi task
better. I could go on but I think I said enough. ;-)

[Bob]

In article <mhfoo89l3k0ik844c...@4ax.com>,
nothe...@not.here says...

That was me. You are welcome.

Bob

[Bob]

In article <XnsA1BD5476E2A67...@94.75.214.39>,
nrma...@yahoo.com says...

Don't forget to make sure you have the Windows 7 drivers handy.

Bob

[Bob]

In article <edc9a40c-75e7-4ba6...@googlegroups.com>,
rnrb...@yahoo.com says...

When you get to the start page, hit the Windows Key + the "D" key. It will
take you straight to the desktop. Pin all the programs you use to the task
bar. Now you get all the behind the scenes improvements of Windows 8 with a
desktop that resembles Windows 7. There is a 3rd party application that
costs < $5.00 that will bring back the start button.

Bob

[Bob]

In article <518bb403$0$57969$c3e8da3$eb76...@news.astraweb.com>,
#BadAd...@home.com says...

I've been using Windows 8 on my non-touch screen work laptop since
November. I haven't found any reason to go back to Windows 7.

If you put your machine to sleep, instead of shutting it down, from the
desktop, when you wake it back up, you will be in the desktop again. About
the only time I see the start page is when I run disk defragmenter and then
it's only long enough to type "disk defr" and hit enter, just like I do in
Windows 7.

Bob

[Bob]

In article <174f6a97-55a3-4e9b...@googlegroups.com>,
rnrb...@yahoo.com says...

Ron,

If you put your machine to sleep from the desktop rather than shutting it
down, it will return to the desktop when you wake it up. I do that every
day on mine.

Bob

[Bob]

In article <518bb437$0$7524$c3e8da3$12bc...@news.astraweb.com>,
fpho...@yahoo.com says...

The classic view is called the desktop and you can get to it by hitting the
Windows key + "D".

Bob

[Bob]

In article <518bc102$0$63534$c3e8da3$14a0...@news.astraweb.com>,
airstrea...@gmail.com says...

Hunter,

Please provide some stats that show it's a huge failure. Just because you
don't like it doesn't make it a failure any more than me liking it makes it
a success.

Bob

[nothermark]

I'm glad that works for you. I can say that desktop machines have
long had a reputation of not liking any of the suspend modes.
Generally they do not come back well.

[nothermark]

thank you. I still have them handy as I was going to write a better
reply but got caught up in getting out of town then being on the road.

[Hunter Hampton]

On 5/18/2013 5:41 PM, Bob wrote:
> Hunter,
>
> Please provide some stats that show it's a huge failure. Just because you
> don't like it doesn't make it a failure any more than me liking it makes it
> a success.
>
> Bob

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/microsoft-admits-failure-on-windows-8-2013-05-07

[Technobarbarian]

"Hunter Hampton" <airstrea...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5198553a$0$7718$c3e8da3$12bc...@news.astraweb.com...

What you're reading is the media's *interpretation* of what Microsoft
actually said. My first response was, "This is huge", because Microsoft
never admits failure. I dug a little more. They didn't. All they've admitted
is that they're making some changes based on customer feedback.

It's a bit hard to call Win8 a failure. It's already being used on
3.8% of the computers in use. By comparison Apple's OS X 10.8 is only used
by 2.8% of computer users. It's also notable that Microsoft's stock has gone
up. Much is being made of the adoption rate, which is significantly lower
than previous versions. The biggest reason for this is that the product and
the market have matured. It's no longer as important to regularly upgrade
your computer and/or operating system as it once was. Win8 is faster, but
our old machines are still working just fine and at a reasonable speed.

TB

[Hunter Hampton]

On 5/18/2013 10:17 PM, Technobarbarian wrote:
> What you're reading is the media's *interpretation* of what
> Microsoft actually said. My first response was, "This is huge", because
> Microsoft never admits failure. I dug a little more. They didn't. All
> they've admitted is that they're making some changes based on customer
> feedback.

You can split hairs if you want, but 8 is not a success.... if it was
people wouldn't be clamoring to buy windows 7 computers....

Remember I was laptop shopping last month and both salepeople at Best
buy and Walmart told me people aren't liking 8....

Plus, I get emails from ZDNet every day and its pretty clear that 8
isn't liked.

Hunter

[Ron]

"Hunter Hampton" wrote in message
news:51986994$0$7540$c3e8da3$12bc...@news.astraweb.com...

On 5/18/2013 10:17 PM, Technobarbarian wrote:
> What you're reading is the media's *interpretation* of what
> Microsoft actually said. My first response was, "This is huge", because
> Microsoft never admits failure. I dug a little more. They didn't. All
> they've admitted is that they're making some changes based on customer
> feedback.

You can split hairs if you want, but 8 is not a success.... if it was
people wouldn't be clamoring to buy windows 7 computers....

Remember I was laptop shopping last month and both salepeople at Best
buy and Walmart told me people aren't liking 8....

++++++
Hunter,

Over the years I have heard Best Buy's people tell customers things that I
had to bite my lip to keep from contradicting them! I was only a customer
overhearing sales people advising customers who knew very little and what
the sales people proved to me was that they knew very little or they didn't
mind outright lying to customers. I wouldn't put a lot of faith in what
those sale folks tell you, they are much more concerned with making a sale
than telling the truth!

On the other hand, I don't think MS would be rushing to make lots of changes
to WIN 8 if it was a super successful product. One thing to remember about
all software is that version 1.0 usually isn't something you want! ;-)

Ron
++++++

[nothermark]

It still ignores the fact that desktop users and a lot of laptop users
are not interested in an OS that is designed for a tablet type
interaction. Many also run multiple programs at one time so they are
in multitask mode most of the time. Both of those seem to be problems
with 8. Then interesting thing will be where they go with 9.

[Technobarbarian]

"Hunter Hampton" <airstrea...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:51986994$0$7540$c3e8da3$12bc...@news.astraweb.com...

I've been hearing the same thing directly from computer users myself. I
would agree that it is not popular with your average computer user. The same
thing happened with Vista, which is still being used by 5% of the computers
in use. In both cases it was the same problem. The new operating system
changed too much from the old one for your average computer user. The
biggest complaint I hear about Win8 is that it requires some work to learn
to use it. Since everyone is using computers these days your average
computer user is not technically oriented to start with. Most folks weren't
all that comfortable with their old operating system, so they're not ready
for the sort of leap Win8 made. They want to just plug it in and go. They
don't like changes.

What Microsoft is most likely to do is leave the core of Win8 unchanged
and tweak the user interface so that Win8 looks more like Win7. The same
thing happened with Vista. The kernel remained basically the same. They
changed the user interface and it became Win7.

TB

[Technobarbarian]

"nothermark" <nothe...@not.here> wrote in message
news:eifhp8tomu3tuiqhq...@4ax.com...

The world is headed in the direction of touch interface machines,
including desktop computers. Microsoft has to keep up with that trend.

TB

[Albert]

TB,
It's been my practice in the past that whenever I build a new PC box I
passed my old one down to my wife. But this last Christmas "we"
decided to buy her a tailor-made HP PC that has a real good price on
it. It came with Windows 8 and the computer was specifically designed
to run Windows 8.

We both had been running XP and after I played with her Windows 8 for
a little bit I decided to bump up from XP on my machine to Windows 8.
Now the P5Q Pro Turbo MB I have in my PC has a few quirks that hers
doesn't. Where she can set her computer to timeout and go into sleep
mode I can't also the movement of her mouse will take it out of sleep
mows whereas mine won't. Were both using the same USB wireless mouse
so apparently it's my motherboard that's different. I found a
workaround by putting it in sleep mode manually and when I take it out
of sleep mode I have to shut my computer off manually and instantly
restart and when I do that everything that was on the desktop and
whatever has been preserved.

As a side note I found that Windows 8 is not compatible with AutoCAD
13 that I have. Because it originally was a gift and I surely can't
afford to replace it :-(. So Swmbo suggested that I take her old XP PC
and get another monitor for it so I can continue doing my drawings for
the shop. The monitor came in and I set everything up and I was
reinstalling AutoCAD (I had removed it because I was trying to sell
it) when the monitor went black with large red lettering across the
top saying that the "The Graphics Card Had Lost Power".

Apparently because the computer had set idle for going on five months
it turns out that both the fan bearing in the graphics card and the
main box fan bearing had frozen up. Both bearings would barely turn by
hand. The CPU fan was OK. Consequently the graphics card showed signs
of melting.

I'm replacing the card and the box fan which will be in sometime this
week. Got my fingers crossed ;-).

Albert
http://www.lasonwebpage.com/index.html

[nothermark]

No, the whacko's that love to play with the tech are in love with
touch.

It seems to be an issue of producers vs consumers. If all one wants
is an answer touch is useful. Poke here to read mail, flick it off
the page to get to the next one.

If one is creating documents or actually working on anything touch is
mostly a PITA even without looking at the growing screen sizes. The
problem microsoft has to deal with is that the cadre of creators will
not go away. That group will be hard pressed to find the precision
and control they have with a mouse and keyboard.

[Hank]

Do you have any government studies or reports to back up your hearsay? How dare you use the opinions of othere who actually use it! :-)

Hank <~~~~ doesn't really care

[Hunter Hampton]

On 5/19/2013 12:39 PM, Hank wrote:
> Do you have any government studies or reports to back up your hearsay? How dare you use the opinions of othere who actually use it!:-)
>
> Hank <~~~~ doesn't really care

LOL, I don't much care either..... I don't personally know anyone who
has 8 and likes it, I know people who have it and don't like it....

That's all I need to know :D

Hunter

[Technobarbarian]

"nothermark" <nothe...@not.here> wrote in message

news:touhp8ph9ii02f8u5...@4ax.com...

Because of my job I have a bit of a ringside seat on electronics. I
see what people are buying and what they would like to buy. No one is
forcing anyone to buy a computer with a touch screen. People are buying them
because they're easy to use. As prices go down and the technology improves
this trend will accelerate.

>
> It seems to be an issue of producers vs consumers. If all one wants
> is an answer touch is useful. Poke here to read mail, flick it off
> the page to get to the next one.
>
> If one is creating documents or actually working on anything touch is
> mostly a PITA even without looking at the growing screen sizes. The
> problem microsoft has to deal with is that the cadre of creators will
> not go away. That group will be hard pressed to find the precision
> and control they have with a mouse and keyboard.

So? You can still use a mouse with a touch screen computer.

You can talk against the tide all you want. It isn't going to stop
what's happening. I see it myself with my own usage. When I've been working
with a tablet or my smart phone for awhile I have a tendency to touch
screens that I know damn good and well are not touch sensitive. It would
make my life easier if all my devices worked the same way. For younger
people who are more attached to their tablets and smart phones than me I
expect that this is an even bigger factor.

TB

[nothermark]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 13:26:31 -0700, "Technobarbarian"

We both know the average user does not have really produce so that is
no surprise. I lived with a Blackberry then a Smartphone for the last
15 years of my work life. Now I do not want anything more than a
simple phone with no extra's. The smallest screen I want data on is
the 14 in laptop I am using. I get the picture. It is classic
American business model decision making. Change for the sake of
change to force sales combined with a major focus on the largest share
of the market, screw the rest. I'm still waiting to see what the
killer application will be that renders XP useless. ;-)

[Technobarbarian]

"nothermark" <nothe...@not.here> wrote in message

news:3dnip8tsekadpbge3...@4ax.com...

> We both know the average user does not have really produce so that is
> no surprise. I lived with a Blackberry then a Smartphone for the last
> 15 years of my work life. Now I do not want anything more than a
> simple phone with no extra's. The smallest screen I want data on is
> the 14 in laptop I am using. I get the picture. It is classic
> American business model decision making. Change for the sake of
> change to force sales combined with a major focus on the largest share
> of the market, screw the rest. I'm still waiting to see what the
> killer application will be that renders XP useless. ;-)

LOL, in many ways you have a lot in common with the wingnuts you argue
with. They're generally opposed to change because they want everything to
stay the same. It may not seem like an improvement to you, but for many
people it is. Families are buying touch screen computers because their
perception is that it makes it easier for the kids to use the computer.
Those kids aren't going to want to go back to plain screens. But, I also
talk with technologically savvy people--like Intel employees, we have a lot
of them around here--who are moving to touch screen computers.

TB

[Bob]

In article <5198553a$0$7718$c3e8da3$12bc...@news.astraweb.com>,
airstrea...@gmail.com says...

Sorry, there's nothing in there where MS admits Windows 8 is a failure.
FYI, Windows 8 is selling at a comparable rate to Windows 7 at the same
point in time.

If Windows 8 is such a huge failure, why is their stock at a 5 year high?

Bob

[Bob]

In article <51986994$0$7540$c3e8da3$12bc...@news.astraweb.com>,
airstrea...@gmail.com says...

Hunter,

Substitute "XP" for "Windows 8" and you will have the headlines from when
XP was first released. When XP was first released there were comments about
its "Crayola" user interface.

I get RSS feeds from ZDNet. If you believe certain ZDNet bloggers, Linux
and Mac OS are taking over the world.

Bob

[Bob]

In article <51993057$0$63583$c3e8da3$14a0...@news.astraweb.com>,
airstrea...@gmail.com says...

Hunter,

We've never met in person, but as I have said in other posts, I've been
using Windows 8 on my work machine since November, on a partition on my
home machine, and I have no desire to go back to Windows 7.

Bob

[Hunter Hampton]

On 5/21/2013 7:04 PM, Bob wrote:
> If Windows 8 is such a huge failure, why is their stock at a 5 year high?
>
> Bob

I guess because all the people who go to buy a new computer, in a retail
store buy it... not knowing.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/05/09/the-windows-8-flop-what-does-it-mean-for-microsoft/

HUNTER

[Hunter Hampton]

On 5/21/2013 7:12 PM, Bob wrote:
> Substitute "XP" for "Windows 8" and you will have the headlines from when
> XP was first released. When XP was first released there were comments about
> its "Crayola" user interface.
>
> I get RSS feeds from ZDNet. If you believe certain ZDNet bloggers, Linux
> and Mac OS are taking over the world.

Bob,

This isn't worth arguing about.

Hunter

[Hunter Hampton]

On 5/21/2013 7:18 PM, Bob wrote:
> Hunter,
>
> We've never met in person, but as I have said in other posts, I've been
> using Windows 8 on my work machine since November, on a partition on my
> home machine, and I have no desire to go back to Windows 7.
>
> Bob

I'm happy for you, you're the exception.

Hunter

[nothermark]

That only means that computers are selling. Microsoft controls the
licenses. What is interesting is the number of 7 machines available
as it seems to still be installed. I priced a Dell yesterday that
wanted 2 weeks to ship a stock unit so installing SW seems to be the
only holdup.

[Technobarbarian]

"Hunter Hampton" <airstrea...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:519c361b$0$33716$c3e8da3$a909...@news.astraweb.com...

> On 5/21/2013 7:04 PM, Bob wrote:
>> If Windows 8 is such a huge failure, why is their stock at a 5 year high?
>>
>> Bob
>
> I guess because all the people who go to buy a new computer, in a retail
> store buy it... not knowing.

Word of mouth is still the most effective form of advertising. In
general most folks have heard the same things you've heard. The most likely
reason their stock as gone up despite the problems with Win8 is that the
fundamentals are still there and the market is going up across the board.
They survived Vista. This isn't the best news, but they'll get through this
too.
>
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/05/09/the-windows-8-flop-what-does-it-mean-for-microsoft/

????? So? That reads like a pretty fair and positive report to me.
He said pretty much the same thing I said. Hopefully Microsoft has learned a
lesson from this, but their organizational structure pretty much guarantees
that their products will have a "designed by committee" look and feel.

I think that once you realize that the tiled screen *is* the start
menu some of the start menu angst goes away. I'm betting he's right on the
changes we can look for. The rule of thumb a lot of people go by is that,
unless they have to, they don't change operating systems until after the
first service pack comes out. For some folks that's probably still good
advice.

TB

[Frank Howell]

Because Microsoft sells more then window operating systems and that's where
the increased revenue comes from. Windows software revenue is flat.

"Dell has laid the blame for poor PC sales at the door of Windows 8, citing
the uncertain adoption of Microsoft's operating system as a factor for
declining revenue." http://tinyurl.com/ppmmngr

"However, that failed to materialize as Gartner recently stated that during
the Q4 of 2012, Windows 8 failed to instill a "significant impact" on PC
shipments. A month after the launch of the platform, windows pc slaes
decreased by 21 percent. It's also trailing behind Windows Vista when it
comes to usage share."

http://tinyurl.com/ayothk6

--
Frank Howell

[Bob]

In article <398d6a52-17c6-4d72...@googlegroups.com>,
rnrb...@yahoo.com says...

>
> I know there are some computer guys here so:
>
> I had my first chance to use Windows 8 this past weekend on our Daughter's new computer. We are getting to the point where we need to replace laptops:
>
> - Is there any way to say no?

> - Is there a classic view? I couldn't find one.
>

> This software is ridiculous even in a touch screen environment which we won't have.

Microsoft has posted a .pdf file that explains the Windows 8 gestures,
keyboard shortcuts, and a few other things.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=39055

Bob

[Steve Barker]

On 5/9/2013 7:35 AM, RonB wrote:
> I know there are some computer guys here so:
>
> I had my first chance to use Windows 8 this past weekend on our Daughter's new computer. We are getting to the point where we need to replace laptops:
>
> - Is there any way to say no?
> - Is there a classic view? I couldn't find one.
>
> This software is ridiculous even in a touch screen environment which we won't have.
>

Dell will build them how ever you want.


--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

[jerryosage]

On Wed, 29 May 2013 08:41:13 -0500, Steve Barker
<ichase...@notgmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/9/2013 7:35 AM, RonB wrote:
>> I know there are some computer guys here so:
>>
>> I had my first chance to use Windows 8 this past weekend on our Daughter's new computer. We are getting to the point where we need to replace laptops:
>>
>> - Is there any way to say no?
>> - Is there a classic view? I couldn't find one.
>>
>> This software is ridiculous even in a touch screen environment which we won't have.
>>
>
>Dell will build them how ever you want.

Best Buy will still sell you Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit (OEM) for
$190 while their supply lasts. Tiger Direct and Fry's has sold out.

I'm in the process of building/upgrading several DTsystems for people
who didn't want Win 8 but wanted a better system. Regardless of how
good or bad Win 8 is, they didn't want to learn a new OS.

Win 7x64 Ultimate, new Asus MB, an Intel i7 quad core 3.50Ghz CPU,
16GB of DDR3 2400Mhz memory, and two fast 2TB Hard drives will give an
old DT box new life for years to come. And it puts a little change in
my pocket.

The above, with 32GB of memory, makes Photoshop perform as if it only
had 100 lines of code.

Jerry O.

[Bob]

In article <85meq81nd7qqsj5fg...@4ax.com>, Jerry Osage
says...

With 32GB of RAM, just about anything runs fast.

Bob

[jerryosage]

True, and add a 60GB SATA III SSD for temp storage and boost the speed
a little more.

[nothermark]

Got any idea how long your temp drive will last?

[jerryosage]

On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 07:57:16 -0400, nothermark <nothe...@not.here>
wrote:

So far they have not outlived their 3 year repair/replacement
warrenty. However, for approximately $3.50/mo - less than the price
of a hamburger - they are not a bad deal. The trick is to only use
them for temporary storage so when they crap out nothing is lost
except throughput speed.

Swap it out with a spare, RMA the bad one, and continue computing.
Most are used in gaming sysems where there are two video boards
installed and linked together, each costing $2-3K so the cost of the
SSD is very minor.

I guess one could use them as a boot drive, many do, however, boot
speed doesn't mean much to me since I don't boot often. And I don't
play computer games. However, I do like speed.

Jerry O.

[nothermark]

Interesting. I like the idea but also know there are limited write
cycles on SSD's. Maybe I will try it and see what happens. I have
one sitting here I was going to use for a laptop in the MH.

[jerryosage]

On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 12:10:37 -0400, nothermark <nothe...@not.here>
wrote:

Here is a link to one that is popular. 128 GB / 5 year warranty.
I still won't/wouldn't use one for booting or storage unless it is in
a RAID configuration where I could recover the data. However, many
do. Besides, I'm frugal and large capicity HDs are very cheap - and
reliable.
<http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7473866&CatId=5300>


Here is a link to the specs direct from the web site.
http://ocz.com/consumer/vector-7mm-sata-3-ssd/specifications

I stay out of the loop on custom systems except for the build. What
do you want to do? Here is what I recommend, high end - low end, and
here are the best prices.

Order it, and when it arrives call me and we will set up a time to
bring the package over and I will assemble and test it. If/when
something dies I will test the system but since I didn't sell anything
but labor, any shipping discrepancies or warranty problems aren't my
problem

Jerry O.

[nothermark]

Interesting. Thanks. The one I have I may still use to build an
instrumentation system. I want to mess around with some audio
filtering. From what I see there are several programs that emulate an
audio spectrum analyzer and tracking generator. I think the added
speed might be useful.

At this point I am contemplating a new PC but have not decided between
a new Dell or a ground up build. There are advantages to both.
Building them is not a problem.

[Bob]

In article <nclmq8dkghdk4ubai...@4ax.com>, Jerry Osage

Some of my co-workers use them for VMs. With sufficient RAM, this makes the
software in the VM run faster than if it was installed directly on a
spinning hard drive.

Bob

[Bob]

In article <uq0nq8lptgg9bv4js...@4ax.com>, Jerry Osage
says...

I looked at the ocz link and noticed it was consumer grade. I also looked
at the 512 GB drive specs. Curious, I went to the ocz home page and went
down the enterprise path and found the Deneva 2 - R Series. The consumer
512GB has a 5 year warrantee with up to 20GB/day of writes. The enterprise
512GB, 400GB usable, has a 3 year warrantee with up to 7.2 PB lifetime
write endurance. It would appear that the enterprise version gets it higher
endurance by reserving more space for "bad block" replacement.

Still, < $1.00/GB of storage space is an improvement.

Bob

[nothermark]

That would track with what I would expect.

[Major Oz]

W8 sucks for all the usual MS "improvement" reasons...but more so this time, as folks are asked to pay for the Android touch-screen experience.

If I want that sensation, I will play with my Samsung tablet.

As one who has used computers* with feet on desk...monitor somewhere beyond the feet...and keyboard in my lap, touchscreens on a desktop are the best example of dumbshit features.


*since screwing around with a 360 in the 60's.....first MS thesis was about 8000 cards.

[D-R]

On 6/3/2013 12:00 PM, Major Oz wrote:
> W8 sucks for all the usual MS "improvement" reasons...but more so this time, as folks are asked to pay for the Android touch-screen experience.

Android is google and MS is gonna compete..

>
> If I want that sensation, I will play with my Samsung tablet.

And many people are moving to pads and tablets to replace computers
especially desktops so that is the future...

>
> As one who has used computers* with feet on desk...monitor somewhere beyond the feet...and keyboard in my lap, touchscreens on a desktop are the best example of dumbshit features.

> *since screwing around with a 360 in the 60's.....first MS thesis
was about 8000 cards.

I have worked on 360 370 etc... and I wrote IBM operating systems with
the 3270 keyboard in my lap but that was then and this is now.. I
have Vista, 7 and 8 laptops and after a learning curve I am starting
to like 8 even without a touch screen. The one thing that really helps
is high speed internet.. ie DSL or cable..


--

AJ

[Hunter Hampton]

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-continues-to-fail-7000016222/?s_cid=e550&ttag=e550

Hunter

[Bob]

In article <51ad5b9e$0$28769$c3e8da3$f017...@news.astraweb.com>,
airstrea...@gmail.com says...
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-continues-to-fail-7000016222/?s_cid=e550&ttag=e550
>
> Hunter

Ah yes, SJVN. I MIGHT believe something he says about Linux, but since he
hates everything Microsoft, I rarely believe anything he posts about
Microsoft.

Here's what he conveniently leaves out:
Vista was released into a growing desktop and laptop market. Windows 8 was
released into a quickly shrinking desktop and laptop market. If I remember
correctly, this market has shrunk about 20% in the past year. This makes it
just about impossible for Windows 8 to do better than Vista. Yet, even with
Windows 7 still available, the Windows 8 share of the market is increasing.

Since you have such faith in ZDnet, try reading some of Ed Bott's columns
for a more balanced view of things.

Bob

[Hunter Hampton]

On 6/4/2013 7:39 PM, Bob wrote:
> Yet, even with
> Windows 7 still available, the Windows 8 share of the market is increasing.

I know quite a few people who are buying windows 8 laptops, and putting
7 on them.

I had my laptop at the tech guy yesterday, and his tech said he bought 8
and hated it so much he put 7 on his... and he's a tech.

Hunter

[K Miller]

http://readwrite.com/2013/06/04/windows-cant-compete-with-itself

http://rcpmag.com/articles/2013/05/03/windows-8-share-still-struggling.aspx

http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/windows-8-100-million-licenses-sold-how-many-use

[Hunter Hampton]

Thanks Kevin, this pretty much confirms what I've been hearing and what
I figgered.

Hunter

[K Miller]

Hunter Hampton wrote:
>>
>>
> Thanks Kevin, this pretty much confirms what I've been hearing and
> what I figgered.
>

I made the decision not to take the company that employs me to manage their
systems to Windows 8 at this time for several reasons:

1. Training - It would require massive amounts of my time to train the users
here on how to use Win8 as it currently is such a large departure from the
usual "Windows" system. This might change a bit now that Microsoft has
realized the mistake they made in removing the "Start" button but it remains
to be seen. At this point any benefits of such a move are more than
outweighed by the drawbacks.

2. Ergonomics - Touch screens and most business applications are not really
compatible, in my opinion. Having to remove your hand from the keyboard and
reach over it to swipe the screen then reposition your hand on the keyboard
isn't going to be very productive and ergonomically could possibly cause
more long term health issues similar to what we see with carpal tunnel
injuries.

3. ROI - The moves from WinNT 4 to Windows 2000 to XP to Win7 (skipping
Vista) all were of immediate and obvious value. Each was a large step
forward in operating system stability and speed. I'm not convinced, yet,
that Win8 offers enough in the way of speed and stability improvement over
what we already enjoy with Win7 to make the change worthwhile.

[Hunter Hampton]

On 6/5/2013 7:49 AM, K Miller wrote:
> 3. ROI - The moves from WinNT 4 to Windows 2000 to XP to Win7 (skipping
> Vista) all were of immediate and obvious value. Each was a large step
> forward in operating system stability and speed. I'm not convinced, yet,
> that Win8 offers enough in the way of speed and stability improvement over
> what we already enjoy with Win7 to make the change worthwhile.

I have to say, I fought to keep XP, but now that I have 7 I really like
it..... I was able to do some things in 7 that were like the things I
like in XP, such as put the quick start back on the bottom taskbar.

Hunter

[Owen McKenzie]

So he's the one that has been posting under your name! That explains it!

--

Owen McKenzie
Posting from Pigeon Forge, TN

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you,
then they fight you, then you win.
Mahatma Gandhi

[nothermark]

Isn't the mantra to skip every other release?

[Major Oz]

Never understood why W7 refurbs are not more popular.

They are TOTAL rebuilds, with, in many cases, newer parts than the original, and, according to the tekkies I know, much better QC in the assembly and testing.

And INCREDIBLY cheap.

Got mine, with a 1T hd, and W7 Professional, for $178.

[Bob]

In article <51aeb0d4$0$38226$c3e8da3$f626...@news.astraweb.com>,
airstrea...@gmail.com says...

Your anecdotal evidence doesn't mean any more than my anecdotal evidence
that almost all of the multiple thousand U.S. employees of my employer are
using Windows 8.

If they are putting 7 on them, they have to buy 7. Why isn't the 7 share of
the market increasing?

Bob

[Bob]

In article <e-adnY_nLP9v0jLM...@giganews.com>, i09172
@removethisspamblockerstuff-yahoo.com says...

>
> Hunter Hampton wrote:
> >>
> >>
> > Thanks Kevin, this pretty much confirms what I've been hearing and
> > what I figgered.
> >
>
> I made the decision not to take the company that employs me to manage their
> systems to Windows 8 at this time for several reasons:
>
> 1. Training - It would require massive amounts of my time to train the users
> here on how to use Win8 as it currently is such a large departure from the
> usual "Windows" system. This might change a bit now that Microsoft has
> realized the mistake they made in removing the "Start" button but it remains
> to be seen. At this point any benefits of such a move are more than
> outweighed by the drawbacks.
>

It depends. Microsoft has said that Windows 8.1 due out later this year
will have an option to take the user directly to the desktop upon logging
in, like Windows 7 does. With programs pinned to the desktop task bar, the
need to visit the start page will be greatly reduced or eliminated,
reducing or eliminating the training required for many jobs. In places like
call centers and other industries where the user never sees the desktop
today, this will be a complete non-issue. Power users will need more
training, but being power users, they will be able to learn the new things
more quickly.

> 2. Ergonomics - Touch screens and most business applications are not really
> compatible, in my opinion. Having to remove your hand from the keyboard and
> reach over it to swipe the screen then reposition your hand on the keyboard
> isn't going to be very productive and ergonomically could possibly cause
> more long term health issues similar to what we see with carpal tunnel
> injuries.
>

Not an issue if you are using a non-touch device like most businesses have.
Remember Windows 8 runs as well as or better than Windows 7, on Windows 7
grade hardware, so theres no need to get new hardware. I have a non-touch
laptop and don't have any problems.

> 3. ROI - The moves from WinNT 4 to Windows 2000 to XP to Win7 (skipping
> Vista) all were of immediate and obvious value. Each was a large step
> forward in operating system stability and speed. I'm not convinced, yet,
> that Win8 offers enough in the way of speed and stability improvement over
> what we already enjoy with Win7 to make the change worthwhile.

Those steps forward in speed were mostly due to the improvement in hardware
over that time frame. I really can't comment on stability because I can't
remember the last time I had Windows 7 hang, blue screen, or otherwise
misbehave, so expecting significantly better stability from Windows 8 might
not be a realistic expectation.

I do know that one Windows 8 feature that my employer really likes is the
new version of Direct Access. This will allow us to completely eliminate
our use of VPN software once the Windows 8 rollout is complete. However, if
your employer doesn't use any VPN software, that won't mean anything to
you.

Finally, don't forget that many large companies are either just starting or
are in the middle of their migration from XP to Windows 7, so there
wouldn't be a huge business migration from 7 to 8 even if 8 was simply a
faster, more stable 7 without any UI changes.

Bob

[Bob]

In article <51af551c$0$7293$c3e8da3$b135...@news.astraweb.com>,
airstrea...@gmail.com says...

Are you talking about the quick launch bar? If so, I wonder why your laptop
vendor moved it somewhere else.

Bob

[Bob]

In article <644b12a7-fe4f-4308...@googlegroups.com>,
ozm...@gmail.com says...

Yeah, a chain here sells refurbed Dell desktops, Optiplex?, like that. You
can get a refurbed Dell Latitude laptop for under $200. If all you want to
do is email, Youtube, and wander around the internet, it can be a good
deal.

Bob

[Major Oz]

Other than being a game droid, what else is there ?

[Hunter Hampton]

On 6/5/2013 6:56 PM, Bob wrote:
> Are you talking about the quick launch bar? If so, I wonder why your laptop
> vendor moved it somewhere else.
>
> Bob

Quick launch on the taskbar was eliminated in Windows 7...... yo have to
add it.

Hunter

[Bob]

In article <d8c23adf-6df4-418a...@googlegroups.com>,
ozm...@gmail.com says...

Desktop publishing, photo/audio/video editing, etc. Anything that takes a
lot of RAM and a fast CPU.

Bob

[Bob]

In article <51b01b8d$0$20975$c3e8da3$1cbc...@news.astraweb.com>,
airstrea...@gmail.com says...

Hunter,

I think we have a terminology issue here. I think what you mean is that the
Quick Launch bar isn't displayed on the Task Bar by default in Windows 7.

Bob

[Hunter Hampton]

On 6/8/2013 2:45 PM, Bob wrote:
>> >Quick launch on the taskbar was eliminated in Windows 7...... yo have to
>> >add it.
>> >
>> >Hunter
> Hunter,
>
> I think we have a terminology issue here. I think what you mean is that the
> Quick Launch bar isn't displayed on the Task Bar by default in Windows 7.
>
> Bob
>

Okay, however you want to say it..... I put it on so now I have it.

Hunter

[Major Oz]

On Saturday, June 8, 2013 4:42:30 PM UTC-5, Bob wrote:
>
> > > If all you want to
> > > do is email, Youtube, and wander around the internet, it can be a good
> > Other than being a game droid, what else is there ?
> Desktop publishing, photo/audio/video editing, etc. Anything that takes a
> lot of RAM and a fast CPU.

OK.....

I tend to put that in the area of bizzness computing, not "personnel" computing.

YMMV

[nothermark]

On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 19:13:04 -0700 (PDT), Major Oz <ozm...@gmail.com>
wrote:

You probably fit the profile the computer business is looking at then
when they think Tablets will take over. What they miss is the number
of us who are doing things like that plus running simulation and
engineering packages. It is all those other uses that leave a lot of
us shaking our heads about Tablets.

[Major Oz]

...and I am having HUGE problems figgering how to multitask on my Androids...

Were I back in school (did all my doctoral work on a Kaypro, and first MS on a 360).......I would have a different view, re: capacity.

But......I'm not.

I also realize that bidness users often want to bring home a thumb drive and do stuff at home.

But, I would speculate (code for pulling it out of my ass) that well over 80% of all computer users would be well provided for and happy with a Pavilion.