I've been contemplating. A serious question keeps baffling me.
When someone wants to know what a Democrat believes to be the best policy, it's almost universally practiced that they will ask the Democrat him or her self.
When someone wants to know what a Republican believes to be the best policy, it's almost universally practiced that every rumor ever published about that Republican is accepted as fact.
Now, for the serious question.
Why is it almost universally accepted that Republicans, given the opportunity, would outlaw abortion and prevent women from exercising free choice when it comes to their reproductive rights?
I ask that question because the vast majority of the Republicans I know would rather change hearts than change laws regarding abortions other than late term abortions, and almost NONE of them would deny women access to birth control, yet more than half of the women in America fear Republicans over these issues.
We've had opportunities, if indeed Republicans want to change these laws. Republicans have controlled the White House and Congress. Yet these fears have not been realized.
During campaigns, Republicans are asked the right questions. They answer them. They are almost never believed, in spite of the fact that history is there to be examined. When Republicans DO address these issues, it's always about forcing someone to PAY for either abortion or birth control when doing so is in violation of their moral beliefs.
Is it really all that important to Democrats that all employers must be forced to pay for insurance coverage they find abhorrent? Or is it all about scaring women into voting for Democrats?
It sure as hell isn't about outlawing birth control, because Congress hasn't voted on that issue in my lifetime.
<Lvanost...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I've been contemplating. A serious question keeps baffling me.
>When someone wants to know what a Democrat believes to be the best >policy, it's almost universally practiced that they will ask the >Democrat him or her self.
>When someone wants to know what a Republican believes to be the best >policy, it's almost universally practiced that every rumor ever >published about that Republican is accepted as fact.
>Now, for the serious question.
Serious answer
>Why is it almost universally accepted that Republicans, given the >opportunity, would outlaw abortion and prevent women from exercising >free choice when it comes to their reproductive rights?
First try the Republican Platform:
"We believe medicines and treatments should be designed to prolong and
enhance life, not destroy it. Therefore, federal funds should not be
used for drugs that cause the destruction of human life. Furthermore,
the Drug Enforcement Administration ban on use of controlled
substances for physician assisted suicide should be restored."
"Protecting Rights of Conscience
The health care profession can be both a profession and a calling. No
health care professional doctor, nurse, or pharmacist or organization
should ever be required to perform, provide for, or refer for a health
care service against their conscience for any reason. This is
especially true of the religious organizations which deliver a major
portion of America s health care, a service rooted in the charity of
faith communities."
"We renew our call for replacing family planning programs for teens
with increased funding for abstinence education, which teaches
abstinence until marriage as the responsible and expected standard of
behavior. Abstinence from sexual activity is the only protection that
is 100 percent effective against out-ofwedlock pregnancies and
sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV/AIDS when transmitted
sexually. We oppose school-based clinics that provide referrals,
counseling, and related services for abortion and contraception.
Schools should not ask children to answer offensive or intrusive
personal nonacademic questionnaires without parental consent."
"We support a human life amendment to the Constitution, and we endorse
legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment s protections
apply to unborn children. We oppose using public revenues to promote
or perform abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it.
We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family
values and the sanctity and dignity of innocent human life."
" We must protect girls from exploitation and statutory rape through a
parental notification requirement. We all have a moral obligation to
assist, not to penalize, women struggling with the challenges of an
unplanned pregnancy. At its core, abortion is a fundamental assault on
the sanctity of innocent human life. Women deserve better than
abortion. Every effort should be made to work with women considering
abortion to enable and empower them to choose life. We salute those
who provide them alternatives, including pregnancy care centers, and
we take pride in the tremendous increase in adoptions that has
followed Republican legislative initiatives."
You can read that to include refusing to provide any kind of family
planning services that potentially end a possible early term
pregnancy. I would say they cover contraception and abortion. YMMV.
Second, do a web search for republican roe v wade. You will find
ample posts from all political leanings that say the Republican Party
wants it overturned.
Third, check out all the fuss over Planned Parenthood or funding
family planning training with taxpayer money including donations to
the third world.
I could keep listing but there is enough here already.
>I ask that question because the vast majority of the Republicans I know >would rather change hearts than change laws regarding abortions other >than late term abortions, and almost NONE of them would deny women >access to birth control, yet more than half of the women in America fear >Republicans over these issues.
Remember the Rush Limbaugh tirade about the woman who testified about
family planning?
You do a have a good point though. I was one of those folks until
they also cranked up a few other issues to the point where they are
the more evil of the two parties.
>We've had opportunities, if indeed Republicans want to change these >laws. Republicans have controlled the White House and Congress. Yet >these fears have not been realized.
>During campaigns, Republicans are asked the right questions. They answer >them. They are almost never believed, in spite of the fact that history >is there to be examined. When Republicans DO address these issues, it's >always about forcing someone to PAY for either abortion or birth control >when doing so is in violation of their moral beliefs.
Pay is the a smokescreen. The real issue is to prevent their
availability.
There is another issue implicit with your statement. It implies that
somebody else's "moral values" trump mine. That is not a facet of a
free society. If anybody has a moral objection to providing a good or
service then do not go into the business where that is an issue.
>Is it really all that important to Democrats that all employers must be >forced to pay for insurance coverage they find abhorrent? Or is it all >about scaring women into voting for Democrats?
Actually it is about providing equal treatment to everyone. No one is
making anybody use the service. OTOH when there is no financial
burden to provide it there is no reason not to.
A more significant question is why any business has a right to impose
the moral values of part of that organization on all the folks working
for it.
>It sure as hell isn't about outlawing birth control, because Congress >hasn't voted on that issue in my lifetime.
>Lon
Actually, they have. They did it when they voted over allowing folks
to use "moral objections" as a reason not to provide coverage:
Your argument is regarded as rather disingenuous by most folks. The
issue is that the Republicans want Roe v Wade overturned via a SCOTUS
ruling. That way no congressrat has to vote and face the wrath of
it's constituency.
nothermark wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 19:19:42 -0500, LonVanOstran
> <Lvanost...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've been contemplating. A serious question keeps baffling me.
>> When someone wants to know what a Democrat believes to be the best
>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that they will ask the
>> Democrat him or her self.
>> When someone wants to know what a Republican believes to be the best
>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that every rumor ever
>> published about that Republican is accepted as fact.
>> Now, for the serious question.
> Serious answer
>> Why is it almost universally accepted that Republicans, given the
>> opportunity, would outlaw abortion and prevent women from exercising
>> free choice when it comes to their reproductive rights?
> First try the Republican Platform:
> "We believe medicines and treatments should be designed to prolong and
> enhance life, not destroy it. Therefore, federal funds should not be
> used for drugs that cause the destruction of human life. Furthermore,
> the Drug Enforcement Administration ban on use of controlled
> substances for physician assisted suicide should be restored."
> "Protecting Rights of Conscience
> The health care profession can be both a profession and a calling. No
> health care professional doctor, nurse, or pharmacist or organization
> should ever be required to perform, provide for, or refer for a health
> care service against their conscience for any reason. This is
> especially true of the religious organizations which deliver a major
> portion of America s health care, a service rooted in the charity of
> faith communities."
> "We renew our call for replacing family planning programs for teens
> with increased funding for abstinence education, which teaches
> abstinence until marriage as the responsible and expected standard of
> behavior. Abstinence from sexual activity is the only protection that
> is 100 percent effective against out-ofwedlock pregnancies and
> sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV/AIDS when transmitted
> sexually. We oppose school-based clinics that provide referrals,
> counseling, and related services for abortion and contraception.
> Schools should not ask children to answer offensive or intrusive
> personal nonacademic questionnaires without parental consent."
> "We support a human life amendment to the Constitution, and we endorse
> legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment s protections
> apply to unborn children. We oppose using public revenues to promote
> or perform abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it.
> We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family
> values and the sanctity and dignity of innocent human life."
> " We must protect girls from exploitation and statutory rape through a
> parental notification requirement. We all have a moral obligation to
> assist, not to penalize, women struggling with the challenges of an
> unplanned pregnancy. At its core, abortion is a fundamental assault on
> the sanctity of innocent human life. Women deserve better than
> abortion. Every effort should be made to work with women considering
> abortion to enable and empower them to choose life. We salute those
> who provide them alternatives, including pregnancy care centers, and
> we take pride in the tremendous increase in adoptions that has
> followed Republican legislative initiatives."
> You can read that to include refusing to provide any kind of family
> planning services that potentially end a possible early term
> pregnancy. I would say they cover contraception and abortion. YMMV.
> Second, do a web search for republican roe v wade. You will find
> ample posts from all political leanings that say the Republican Party
> wants it overturned.
> Third, check out all the fuss over Planned Parenthood or funding
> family planning training with taxpayer money including donations to
> the third world.
> I could keep listing but there is enough here already.
>> I ask that question because the vast majority of the Republicans I know
>> would rather change hearts than change laws regarding abortions other
>> than late term abortions, and almost NONE of them would deny women
>> access to birth control, yet more than half of the women in America fear
>> Republicans over these issues.
> Remember the Rush Limbaugh tirade about the woman who testified about
> family planning?
> You do a have a good point though. I was one of those folks until
> they also cranked up a few other issues to the point where they are
> the more evil of the two parties.
>> We've had opportunities, if indeed Republicans want to change these
>> laws. Republicans have controlled the White House and Congress. Yet
>> these fears have not been realized.
>> During campaigns, Republicans are asked the right questions. They answer
>> them. They are almost never believed, in spite of the fact that history
>> is there to be examined. When Republicans DO address these issues, it's
>> always about forcing someone to PAY for either abortion or birth control
>> when doing so is in violation of their moral beliefs.
> Pay is the a smokescreen. The real issue is to prevent their
> availability.
> There is another issue implicit with your statement. It implies that
> somebody else's "moral values" trump mine. That is not a facet of a
> free society. If anybody has a moral objection to providing a good or
> service then do not go into the business where that is an issue.
>> Is it really all that important to Democrats that all employers must be
>> forced to pay for insurance coverage they find abhorrent? Or is it all
>> about scaring women into voting for Democrats?
> Actually it is about providing equal treatment to everyone. No one is
> making anybody use the service. OTOH when there is no financial
> burden to provide it there is no reason not to.
> A more significant question is why any business has a right to impose
> the moral values of part of that organization on all the folks working
> for it.
>> It sure as hell isn't about outlawing birth control, because Congress
>> hasn't voted on that issue in my lifetime.
>> Lon
> Actually, they have. They did it when they voted over allowing folks
> to use "moral objections" as a reason not to provide coverage:
> Your argument is regarded as rather disingenuous by most folks. The
> issue is that the Republicans want Roe v Wade overturned via a SCOTUS
> ruling. That way no congressrat has to vote and face the wrath of
> it's constituency.
No! There isn't "enough already". You ignored my question and blew a whole bunch of smoke up my ass. I wasn't drowning until you tried to smother me with bullshit.
You ignore key words. "Funding" "allow" and "forced". What you posted in response to my questions were LIES. The same lies always told by the left when abortion and birth control are the questions.
You equate "pay for" and "allow" as though they are synonymous. Typical liberal lies.
On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:19:42 PM UTC-4, Lon VanOstran wrote:
> I've been contemplating. A serious question keeps baffling me.
> When someone wants to know what a Democrat believes to be the best
> policy, it's almost universally practiced that they will ask the
> Democrat him or her self.
> When someone wants to know what a Republican believes to be the best
> policy, it's almost universally practiced that every rumor ever
> published about that Republican is accepted as fact.
> Now, for the serious question.
> Why is it almost universally accepted that Republicans, given the
> opportunity, would outlaw abortion and prevent women from exercising
> free choice when it comes to their reproductive rights?
> I ask that question because the vast majority of the Republicans I know
> would rather change hearts than change laws regarding abortions other
> than late term abortions, and almost NONE of them would deny women
> access to birth control, yet more than half of the women in America fear
> Republicans over these issues.
> We've had opportunities, if indeed Republicans want to change these
> laws. Republicans have controlled the White House and Congress. Yet
> these fears have not been realized.
> During campaigns, Republicans are asked the right questions. They answer
> them. They are almost never believed, in spite of the fact that history
> is there to be examined. When Republicans DO address these issues, it's
> always about forcing someone to PAY for either abortion or birth control
> when doing so is in violation of their moral beliefs.
> Is it really all that important to Democrats that all employers must be
> forced to pay for insurance coverage they find abhorrent? Or is it all
> about scaring women into voting for Democrats?
> It sure as hell isn't about outlawing birth control, because Congress
> hasn't voted on that issue in my lifetime.
> Lon
Why does it have to be a political issue at all? Why not let the women do as they wish? It's their body they are one's who have to deal with the consequences. Like taking illegal drugs, driving drunk, not wearing a seatbelt, smoking and all, it's personal choice, but we the tax payers will pay for their errors.
Hank wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:19:42 PM UTC-4, Lon VanOstran wrote:
>> I've been contemplating. A serious question keeps baffling me.
>> When someone wants to know what a Democrat believes to be the best
>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that they will ask the
>> Democrat him or her self.
>> When someone wants to know what a Republican believes to be the best
>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that every rumor ever
>> published about that Republican is accepted as fact.
>> Now, for the serious question.
>> Why is it almost universally accepted that Republicans, given the
>> opportunity, would outlaw abortion and prevent women from exercising
>> free choice when it comes to their reproductive rights?
>> I ask that question because the vast majority of the Republicans I know
>> would rather change hearts than change laws regarding abortions other
>> than late term abortions, and almost NONE of them would deny women
>> access to birth control, yet more than half of the women in America fear
>> Republicans over these issues.
>> We've had opportunities, if indeed Republicans want to change these
>> laws. Republicans have controlled the White House and Congress. Yet
>> these fears have not been realized.
>> During campaigns, Republicans are asked the right questions. They answer
>> them. They are almost never believed, in spite of the fact that history
>> is there to be examined. When Republicans DO address these issues, it's
>> always about forcing someone to PAY for either abortion or birth control
>> when doing so is in violation of their moral beliefs.
>> Is it really all that important to Democrats that all employers must be
>> forced to pay for insurance coverage they find abhorrent? Or is it all
>> about scaring women into voting for Democrats?
>> It sure as hell isn't about outlawing birth control, because Congress
>> hasn't voted on that issue in my lifetime.
>> Lon
> Why does it have to be a political issue at all? Why not let the women do as they wish? It's their body they are one's who have to deal with the consequences. Like taking illegal drugs, driving drunk, not wearing a seatbelt, smoking and all, it's personal choice, but we the tax payers will pay for their errors.
> Hank <~~~~~ runs with sissors
Damn! Did you miss EVERYTHING I wrote? Or just most of it?
Who has suggested limiting their choices?
What legislation has been presented, and who presented it?
You ASSumed the exact lie which caused my post. I refuse to address your lie as though it were based upon anything factual. It's not.
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 19:19:42 -0500, LonVanOstran
> <Lvanost...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've been contemplating. A serious question keeps baffling me.
>> When someone wants to know what a Democrat believes to be the best
>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that they will ask the
>> Democrat him or her self.
>> When someone wants to know what a Republican believes to be the best
>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that every rumor ever
>> published about that Republican is accepted as fact.
>> Now, for the serious question.
> Serious answer
>> Why is it almost universally accepted that Republicans, given the
>> opportunity, would outlaw abortion and prevent women from exercising
>> free choice when it comes to their reproductive rights?
> First try the Republican Platform:
> "We believe medicines and treatments should be designed to prolong and
> enhance life, not destroy it. Therefore, federal funds should not be
> used for drugs that cause the destruction of human life. Furthermore,
> the Drug Enforcement Administration ban on use of controlled
> substances for physician assisted suicide should be restored."
> "Protecting Rights of Conscience
> The health care profession can be both a profession and a calling. No
> health care professional doctor, nurse, or pharmacist or organization
> should ever be required to perform, provide for, or refer for a health
> care service against their conscience for any reason. This is
> especially true of the religious organizations which deliver a major
> portion of America s health care, a service rooted in the charity of
> faith communities."
> "We renew our call for replacing family planning programs for teens
> with increased funding for abstinence education, which teaches
> abstinence until marriage as the responsible and expected standard of
> behavior. Abstinence from sexual activity is the only protection that
> is 100 percent effective against out-ofwedlock pregnancies and
> sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV/AIDS when transmitted
> sexually. We oppose school-based clinics that provide referrals,
> counseling, and related services for abortion and contraception.
> Schools should not ask children to answer offensive or intrusive
> personal nonacademic questionnaires without parental consent."
> "We support a human life amendment to the Constitution, and we endorse
> legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment s protections
> apply to unborn children. We oppose using public revenues to promote
> or perform abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it.
> We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family
> values and the sanctity and dignity of innocent human life."
> " We must protect girls from exploitation and statutory rape through a
> parental notification requirement. We all have a moral obligation to
> assist, not to penalize, women struggling with the challenges of an
> unplanned pregnancy. At its core, abortion is a fundamental assault on
> the sanctity of innocent human life. Women deserve better than
> abortion. Every effort should be made to work with women considering
> abortion to enable and empower them to choose life. We salute those
> who provide them alternatives, including pregnancy care centers, and
> we take pride in the tremendous increase in adoptions that has
> followed Republican legislative initiatives."
> You can read that to include refusing to provide any kind of family
> planning services that potentially end a possible early term
> pregnancy. I would say they cover contraception and abortion. YMMV.
> Second, do a web search for republican roe v wade. You will find
> ample posts from all political leanings that say the Republican Party
> wants it overturned.
> Third, check out all the fuss over Planned Parenthood or funding
> family planning training with taxpayer money including donations to
> the third world.
> I could keep listing but there is enough here already.
>> I ask that question because the vast majority of the Republicans I know
>> would rather change hearts than change laws regarding abortions other
>> than late term abortions, and almost NONE of them would deny women
>> access to birth control, yet more than half of the women in America fear
>> Republicans over these issues.
> Remember the Rush Limbaugh tirade about the woman who testified about
> family planning?
> You do a have a good point though. I was one of those folks until
> they also cranked up a few other issues to the point where they are
> the more evil of the two parties.
>> We've had opportunities, if indeed Republicans want to change these
>> laws. Republicans have controlled the White House and Congress. Yet
>> these fears have not been realized.
>> During campaigns, Republicans are asked the right questions. They answer
>> them. They are almost never believed, in spite of the fact that history
>> is there to be examined. When Republicans DO address these issues, it's
>> always about forcing someone to PAY for either abortion or birth control
>> when doing so is in violation of their moral beliefs.
> Pay is the a smokescreen. The real issue is to prevent their
> availability.
> There is another issue implicit with your statement. It implies that
> somebody else's "moral values" trump mine. That is not a facet of a
> free society. If anybody has a moral objection to providing a good or
> service then do not go into the business where that is an issue.
>> Is it really all that important to Democrats that all employers must be
>> forced to pay for insurance coverage they find abhorrent? Or is it all
>> about scaring women into voting for Democrats?
> Actually it is about providing equal treatment to everyone. No one is
> making anybody use the service. OTOH when there is no financial
> burden to provide it there is no reason not to.
> A more significant question is why any business has a right to impose
> the moral values of part of that organization on all the folks working
> for it.
>> It sure as hell isn't about outlawing birth control, because Congress
>> hasn't voted on that issue in my lifetime.
>> Lon
> Actually, they have. They did it when they voted over allowing folks
> to use "moral objections" as a reason not to provide coverage:
> Your argument is regarded as rather disingenuous by most folks. The
> issue is that the Republicans want Roe v Wade overturned via a SCOTUS
> ruling. That way no congressrat has to vote and face the wrath of
> it's constituency.
Your argument is based on a LIE (actually several lies).
First, go back and read what Lon actually wrote, not what you wanted him to write, but his actual words. Here I'll make it easy for you:
>> "Why is it almost universally accepted that Republicans, given the
>> opportunity, would outlaw abortion and prevent women from exercising
>> free choice when it comes to their reproductive rights?"
Do you see the words "outlaw" and "prevent" in there??? Can you find anywhere in all the bullshit you copied and pasted where the Republicans actually endorse "outlaw[ing]" "prevent[ing]" anything?
The only thing Republicans have advocated outlawing is having the federal government pay for abortions and birth control pills. Are you one of those idiots who think that making people pay for their own medical procedures is the same as outlawing those procedures?
-- Bruce
"The free market punishes irresponsibility. Government rewards it." Harry Browne
In other shocking news, if it wasn't bad enough that the poorest 20% comprise a fifth of all citizens, they're ALSO in the bottom quintile!
> The only thing Republicans have advocated outlawing is having the
> federal government pay for abortions and birth control pills. Are you
> one of those idiots who think that making people pay for their own
> medical procedures is the same as outlawing those procedures?
You asked him what? :-)
-- I do not carry a gun hoping that
I'll be able to shoot someone, anymore than
I carry a jack hoping I'll have a flat
tire.
Me.
<Lvanost...@gmail.com> wrote:
>nothermark wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 19:19:42 -0500, LonVanOstran
>> <Lvanost...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I've been contemplating. A serious question keeps baffling me.
>>> When someone wants to know what a Democrat believes to be the best
>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that they will ask the
>>> Democrat him or her self.
>>> When someone wants to know what a Republican believes to be the best
>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that every rumor ever
>>> published about that Republican is accepted as fact.
>>> Now, for the serious question.
>> Serious answer
>>> Why is it almost universally accepted that Republicans, given the
>>> opportunity, would outlaw abortion and prevent women from exercising
>>> free choice when it comes to their reproductive rights?
>> First try the Republican Platform:
>> "We believe medicines and treatments should be designed to prolong and
>> enhance life, not destroy it. Therefore, federal funds should not be
>> used for drugs that cause the destruction of human life. Furthermore,
>> the Drug Enforcement Administration ban on use of controlled
>> substances for physician assisted suicide should be restored."
>> "Protecting Rights of Conscience
>> The health care profession can be both a profession and a calling. No
>> health care professional doctor, nurse, or pharmacist or organization
>> should ever be required to perform, provide for, or refer for a health
>> care service against their conscience for any reason. This is
>> especially true of the religious organizations which deliver a major
>> portion of America s health care, a service rooted in the charity of
>> faith communities."
>> "We renew our call for replacing family planning programs for teens
>> with increased funding for abstinence education, which teaches
>> abstinence until marriage as the responsible and expected standard of
>> behavior. Abstinence from sexual activity is the only protection that
>> is 100 percent effective against out-ofwedlock pregnancies and
>> sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV/AIDS when transmitted
>> sexually. We oppose school-based clinics that provide referrals,
>> counseling, and related services for abortion and contraception.
>> Schools should not ask children to answer offensive or intrusive
>> personal nonacademic questionnaires without parental consent."
>> "We support a human life amendment to the Constitution, and we endorse
>> legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment s protections
>> apply to unborn children. We oppose using public revenues to promote
>> or perform abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it.
>> We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family
>> values and the sanctity and dignity of innocent human life."
>> " We must protect girls from exploitation and statutory rape through a
>> parental notification requirement. We all have a moral obligation to
>> assist, not to penalize, women struggling with the challenges of an
>> unplanned pregnancy. At its core, abortion is a fundamental assault on
>> the sanctity of innocent human life. Women deserve better than
>> abortion. Every effort should be made to work with women considering
>> abortion to enable and empower them to choose life. We salute those
>> who provide them alternatives, including pregnancy care centers, and
>> we take pride in the tremendous increase in adoptions that has
>> followed Republican legislative initiatives."
>> You can read that to include refusing to provide any kind of family
>> planning services that potentially end a possible early term
>> pregnancy. I would say they cover contraception and abortion. YMMV.
>> Second, do a web search for republican roe v wade. You will find
>> ample posts from all political leanings that say the Republican Party
>> wants it overturned.
>> Third, check out all the fuss over Planned Parenthood or funding
>> family planning training with taxpayer money including donations to
>> the third world.
>> I could keep listing but there is enough here already.
>>> I ask that question because the vast majority of the Republicans I know
>>> would rather change hearts than change laws regarding abortions other
>>> than late term abortions, and almost NONE of them would deny women
>>> access to birth control, yet more than half of the women in America fear
>>> Republicans over these issues.
>> Remember the Rush Limbaugh tirade about the woman who testified about
>> family planning?
>> You do a have a good point though. I was one of those folks until
>> they also cranked up a few other issues to the point where they are
>> the more evil of the two parties.
>>> We've had opportunities, if indeed Republicans want to change these
>>> laws. Republicans have controlled the White House and Congress. Yet
>>> these fears have not been realized.
>>> During campaigns, Republicans are asked the right questions. They answer
>>> them. They are almost never believed, in spite of the fact that history
>>> is there to be examined. When Republicans DO address these issues, it's
>>> always about forcing someone to PAY for either abortion or birth control
>>> when doing so is in violation of their moral beliefs.
>> Pay is the a smokescreen. The real issue is to prevent their
>> availability.
>> There is another issue implicit with your statement. It implies that
>> somebody else's "moral values" trump mine. That is not a facet of a
>> free society. If anybody has a moral objection to providing a good or
>> service then do not go into the business where that is an issue.
>>> Is it really all that important to Democrats that all employers must be
>>> forced to pay for insurance coverage they find abhorrent? Or is it all
>>> about scaring women into voting for Democrats?
>> Actually it is about providing equal treatment to everyone. No one is
>> making anybody use the service. OTOH when there is no financial
>> burden to provide it there is no reason not to.
>> A more significant question is why any business has a right to impose
>> the moral values of part of that organization on all the folks working
>> for it.
>>> It sure as hell isn't about outlawing birth control, because Congress
>>> hasn't voted on that issue in my lifetime.
>>> Lon
>> Actually, they have. They did it when they voted over allowing folks
>> to use "moral objections" as a reason not to provide coverage:
>> Your argument is regarded as rather disingenuous by most folks. The
>> issue is that the Republicans want Roe v Wade overturned via a SCOTUS
>> ruling. That way no congressrat has to vote and face the wrath of
>> it's constituency.
>No! There isn't "enough already". You ignored my question and blew a >whole bunch of smoke up my ass. I wasn't drowning until you tried to >smother me with bullshit.
>You ignore key words. "Funding" "allow" and "forced". What you posted in >response to my questions were LIES. The same lies always told by the >left when abortion and birth control are the questions.
>You equate "pay for" and "allow" as though they are synonymous. Typical >liberal lies.
>Lon
You wanted a serious answer to your question and you got one. What I
listed is a small part of why folks on the other side do not trust the
Republican party. You can accept it or go play with yourself for all
I care. It is still the answer. You do not get to define how other
people think.
>On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:19:42 PM UTC-4, Lon VanOstran wrote:
>> I've been contemplating. A serious question keeps baffling me.
>> When someone wants to know what a Democrat believes to be the best
>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that they will ask the
>> Democrat him or her self.
>> When someone wants to know what a Republican believes to be the best
>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that every rumor ever
>> published about that Republican is accepted as fact.
>> Now, for the serious question.
>> Why is it almost universally accepted that Republicans, given the
>> opportunity, would outlaw abortion and prevent women from exercising
>> free choice when it comes to their reproductive rights?
>> I ask that question because the vast majority of the Republicans I know
>> would rather change hearts than change laws regarding abortions other
>> than late term abortions, and almost NONE of them would deny women
>> access to birth control, yet more than half of the women in America fear
>> Republicans over these issues.
>> We've had opportunities, if indeed Republicans want to change these
>> laws. Republicans have controlled the White House and Congress. Yet
>> these fears have not been realized.
>> During campaigns, Republicans are asked the right questions. They answer
>> them. They are almost never believed, in spite of the fact that history
>> is there to be examined. When Republicans DO address these issues, it's
>> always about forcing someone to PAY for either abortion or birth control
>> when doing so is in violation of their moral beliefs.
>> Is it really all that important to Democrats that all employers must be
>> forced to pay for insurance coverage they find abhorrent? Or is it all
>> about scaring women into voting for Democrats?
>> It sure as hell isn't about outlawing birth control, because Congress
>> hasn't voted on that issue in my lifetime.
>> Lon
>Why does it have to be a political issue at all? Why not let the women do as they wish? It's their body they are one's who have to deal with the consequences. Like taking illegal drugs, driving drunk, not wearing a seatbelt, smoking and all, it's personal choice, but we the tax payers will pay for their errors.
>Hank <~~~~~ runs with sissors
Because a couple of religious groups cannot stand the idea of somebody
livig by different rules than they do. It's no different than Sharia
law to the Muslims.
nothermark wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 06:43:18 -0500, LonVanOstran
> <Lvanost...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> nothermark wrote:
>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 19:19:42 -0500, LonVanOstran
>>> <Lvanost...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I've been contemplating. A serious question keeps baffling me.
>>>> When someone wants to know what a Democrat believes to be the best
>>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that they will ask the
>>>> Democrat him or her self.
>>>> When someone wants to know what a Republican believes to be the best
>>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that every rumor ever
>>>> published about that Republican is accepted as fact.
>>>> Now, for the serious question.
>>> Serious answer
>>>> Why is it almost universally accepted that Republicans, given the
>>>> opportunity, would outlaw abortion and prevent women from exercising
>>>> free choice when it comes to their reproductive rights?
>>> First try the Republican Platform:
>>> "We believe medicines and treatments should be designed to prolong and
>>> enhance life, not destroy it. Therefore, federal funds should not be
>>> used for drugs that cause the destruction of human life. Furthermore,
>>> the Drug Enforcement Administration ban on use of controlled
>>> substances for physician assisted suicide should be restored."
>>> "Protecting Rights of Conscience
>>> The health care profession can be both a profession and a calling. No
>>> health care professional doctor, nurse, or pharmacist or organization
>>> should ever be required to perform, provide for, or refer for a health
>>> care service against their conscience for any reason. This is
>>> especially true of the religious organizations which deliver a major
>>> portion of America s health care, a service rooted in the charity of
>>> faith communities."
>>> "We renew our call for replacing family planning programs for teens
>>> with increased funding for abstinence education, which teaches
>>> abstinence until marriage as the responsible and expected standard of
>>> behavior. Abstinence from sexual activity is the only protection that
>>> is 100 percent effective against out-ofwedlock pregnancies and
>>> sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV/AIDS when transmitted
>>> sexually. We oppose school-based clinics that provide referrals,
>>> counseling, and related services for abortion and contraception.
>>> Schools should not ask children to answer offensive or intrusive
>>> personal nonacademic questionnaires without parental consent."
>>> "We support a human life amendment to the Constitution, and we endorse
>>> legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment s protections
>>> apply to unborn children. We oppose using public revenues to promote
>>> or perform abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it.
>>> We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family
>>> values and the sanctity and dignity of innocent human life."
>>> " We must protect girls from exploitation and statutory rape through a
>>> parental notification requirement. We all have a moral obligation to
>>> assist, not to penalize, women struggling with the challenges of an
>>> unplanned pregnancy. At its core, abortion is a fundamental assault on
>>> the sanctity of innocent human life. Women deserve better than
>>> abortion. Every effort should be made to work with women considering
>>> abortion to enable and empower them to choose life. We salute those
>>> who provide them alternatives, including pregnancy care centers, and
>>> we take pride in the tremendous increase in adoptions that has
>>> followed Republican legislative initiatives."
>>> You can read that to include refusing to provide any kind of family
>>> planning services that potentially end a possible early term
>>> pregnancy. I would say they cover contraception and abortion. YMMV.
>>> Second, do a web search for republican roe v wade. You will find
>>> ample posts from all political leanings that say the Republican Party
>>> wants it overturned.
>>> Third, check out all the fuss over Planned Parenthood or funding
>>> family planning training with taxpayer money including donations to
>>> the third world.
>>> I could keep listing but there is enough here already.
>>>> I ask that question because the vast majority of the Republicans I know
>>>> would rather change hearts than change laws regarding abortions other
>>>> than late term abortions, and almost NONE of them would deny women
>>>> access to birth control, yet more than half of the women in America fear
>>>> Republicans over these issues.
>>> Remember the Rush Limbaugh tirade about the woman who testified about
>>> family planning?
>>> You do a have a good point though. I was one of those folks until
>>> they also cranked up a few other issues to the point where they are
>>> the more evil of the two parties.
>>>> We've had opportunities, if indeed Republicans want to change these
>>>> laws. Republicans have controlled the White House and Congress. Yet
>>>> these fears have not been realized.
>>>> During campaigns, Republicans are asked the right questions. They answer
>>>> them. They are almost never believed, in spite of the fact that history
>>>> is there to be examined. When Republicans DO address these issues, it's
>>>> always about forcing someone to PAY for either abortion or birth control
>>>> when doing so is in violation of their moral beliefs.
>>> Pay is the a smokescreen. The real issue is to prevent their
>>> availability.
>>> There is another issue implicit with your statement. It implies that
>>> somebody else's "moral values" trump mine. That is not a facet of a
>>> free society. If anybody has a moral objection to providing a good or
>>> service then do not go into the business where that is an issue.
>>>> Is it really all that important to Democrats that all employers must be
>>>> forced to pay for insurance coverage they find abhorrent? Or is it all
>>>> about scaring women into voting for Democrats?
>>> Actually it is about providing equal treatment to everyone. No one is
>>> making anybody use the service. OTOH when there is no financial
>>> burden to provide it there is no reason not to.
>>> A more significant question is why any business has a right to impose
>>> the moral values of part of that organization on all the folks working
>>> for it.
>>>> It sure as hell isn't about outlawing birth control, because Congress
>>>> hasn't voted on that issue in my lifetime.
>>>> Lon
>>> Actually, they have. They did it when they voted over allowing folks
>>> to use "moral objections" as a reason not to provide coverage:
>>> Your argument is regarded as rather disingenuous by most folks. The
>>> issue is that the Republicans want Roe v Wade overturned via a SCOTUS
>>> ruling. That way no congressrat has to vote and face the wrath of
>>> it's constituency.
>> No! There isn't "enough already". You ignored my question and blew a
>> whole bunch of smoke up my ass. I wasn't drowning until you tried to
>> smother me with bullshit.
>> You ignore key words. "Funding" "allow" and "forced". What you posted in
>> response to my questions were LIES. The same lies always told by the
>> left when abortion and birth control are the questions.
>> You equate "pay for" and "allow" as though they are synonymous. Typical
>> liberal lies.
>> Lon
> You wanted a serious answer to your question and you got one. What I
> listed is a small part of why folks on the other side do not trust the
> Republican party. You can accept it or go play with yourself for all
> I care. It is still the answer. You do not get to define how other
> people think.
They don't trust the Republican party because they believe the bald faced lies of the Democrats, and the press looks the other way while the Dems lie.
Which Republican has presented WHAT BILL attempting to make birth control illegal?
You can't present one because all you have are the lies of the Dems, and their co-conspiritors in the press.
You didn't answer my question. All you've done so far is repeat the lies I posted about. Where's the beef?
nothermark wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 04:47:01 -0700 (PDT), Hank <ninebal...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:19:42 PM UTC-4, Lon VanOstran wrote:
>>> I've been contemplating. A serious question keeps baffling me.
>>> When someone wants to know what a Democrat believes to be the best
>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that they will ask the
>>> Democrat him or her self.
>>> When someone wants to know what a Republican believes to be the best
>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that every rumor ever
>>> published about that Republican is accepted as fact.
>>> Now, for the serious question.
>>> Why is it almost universally accepted that Republicans, given the
>>> opportunity, would outlaw abortion and prevent women from exercising
>>> free choice when it comes to their reproductive rights?
>>> I ask that question because the vast majority of the Republicans I know
>>> would rather change hearts than change laws regarding abortions other
>>> than late term abortions, and almost NONE of them would deny women
>>> access to birth control, yet more than half of the women in America fear
>>> Republicans over these issues.
>>> We've had opportunities, if indeed Republicans want to change these
>>> laws. Republicans have controlled the White House and Congress. Yet
>>> these fears have not been realized.
>>> During campaigns, Republicans are asked the right questions. They answer
>>> them. They are almost never believed, in spite of the fact that history
>>> is there to be examined. When Republicans DO address these issues, it's
>>> always about forcing someone to PAY for either abortion or birth control
>>> when doing so is in violation of their moral beliefs.
>>> Is it really all that important to Democrats that all employers must be
>>> forced to pay for insurance coverage they find abhorrent? Or is it all
>>> about scaring women into voting for Democrats?
>>> It sure as hell isn't about outlawing birth control, because Congress
>>> hasn't voted on that issue in my lifetime.
>>> Lon
>> Why does it have to be a political issue at all? Why not let the women do as they wish? It's their body they are one's who have to deal with the consequences. Like taking illegal drugs, driving drunk, not wearing a seatbelt, smoking and all, it's personal choice, but we the tax payers will pay for their errors.
>> Hank <~~~~~ runs with sissors
> Because a couple of religious groups cannot stand the idea of somebody
> livig by different rules than they do. It's no different than Sharia
> law to the Muslims.
You are a liar. You've lied every time you've posted in this thread. SHOW ME. Show me a law that Congress has passed while Republicans were in control, that outlaws abortion and birth control. SHOW ME.
The Republicans have controlled both houses of Congress and the White House. Where are the laws you bastards lie about?
Stop telling lies just once, long enough to present one shred of evidence to support your bald faced lies. You can't do it.
You can't stop lying because if you did, you would either be silent, or you would admit that the Dems have been playing on irrational fears that are unfounded by fact.
On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 1:54:04 PM UTC-4, Lon VanOstran wrote:
> Hank wrote:
> > On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:19:42 PM UTC-4, Lon VanOstran wrote:
> >> I've been contemplating. A serious question keeps baffling me.
> >> When someone wants to know what a Democrat believes to be the best
> >> policy, it's almost universally practiced that they will ask the
> >> Democrat him or her self.
> >> When someone wants to know what a Republican believes to be the best
> >> policy, it's almost universally practiced that every rumor ever
> >> published about that Republican is accepted as fact.
> >> Now, for the serious question.
> >> Why is it almost universally accepted that Republicans, given the
> >> opportunity, would outlaw abortion and prevent women from exercising
> >> free choice when it comes to their reproductive rights?
> >> I ask that question because the vast majority of the Republicans I know
> >> would rather change hearts than change laws regarding abortions other
> >> than late term abortions, and almost NONE of them would deny women
> >> access to birth control, yet more than half of the women in America fear
> >> Republicans over these issues.
> >> We've had opportunities, if indeed Republicans want to change these
> >> laws. Republicans have controlled the White House and Congress. Yet
> >> these fears have not been realized.
> >> During campaigns, Republicans are asked the right questions. They answer
> >> them. They are almost never believed, in spite of the fact that history
> >> is there to be examined. When Republicans DO address these issues, it's
> >> always about forcing someone to PAY for either abortion or birth control
> >> when doing so is in violation of their moral beliefs.
> >> Is it really all that important to Democrats that all employers must be
> >> forced to pay for insurance coverage they find abhorrent? Or is it all
> >> about scaring women into voting for Democrats?
> >> It sure as hell isn't about outlawing birth control, because Congress
> >> hasn't voted on that issue in my lifetime.
> >> Lon
> > Why does it have to be a political issue at all? Why not let the women do as they wish? It's their body they are one's who have to deal with the consequences. Like taking illegal drugs, driving drunk, not wearing a seatbelt, smoking and all, it's personal choice, but we the tax payers will pay for their errors.
> > Hank <~~~~~ runs with sissors
> Damn! Did you miss EVERYTHING I wrote? Or just most of it?
> Who has suggested limiting their choices?
> What legislation has been presented, and who presented it?
> You ASSumed the exact lie which caused my post. I refuse to address your
> lie as though it were based upon anything factual. It's not.
> Lon
You dipshit. You asked a question which involved politicians and stated republicans would outlaw abortions if given a chance. You obviously missed the point of my answer, which is why does it have to be political and involve any laws.
Hank <~~~~~ thinks Lon should get on birth control
> On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 1:54:04 PM UTC-4, Lon VanOstran wrote:
>> Hank wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:19:42 PM UTC-4, Lon VanOstran wrote:
>>>> I've been contemplating. A serious question keeps baffling me.
>>>> When someone wants to know what a Democrat believes to be the best
>>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that they will ask the
>>>> Democrat him or her self.
>>>> When someone wants to know what a Republican believes to be the best
>>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that every rumor ever
>>>> published about that Republican is accepted as fact.
>>>> Now, for the serious question.
>>>> Why is it almost universally accepted that Republicans, given the
>>>> opportunity, would outlaw abortion and prevent women from exercising
>>>> free choice when it comes to their reproductive rights?
>>>> I ask that question because the vast majority of the Republicans I know
>>>> would rather change hearts than change laws regarding abortions other
>>>> than late term abortions, and almost NONE of them would deny women
>>>> access to birth control, yet more than half of the women in America fear
>>>> Republicans over these issues.
>>>> We've had opportunities, if indeed Republicans want to change these
>>>> laws. Republicans have controlled the White House and Congress. Yet
>>>> these fears have not been realized.
>>>> During campaigns, Republicans are asked the right questions. They answer
>>>> them. They are almost never believed, in spite of the fact that history
>>>> is there to be examined. When Republicans DO address these issues, it's
>>>> always about forcing someone to PAY for either abortion or birth control
>>>> when doing so is in violation of their moral beliefs.
>>>> Is it really all that important to Democrats that all employers must be
>>>> forced to pay for insurance coverage they find abhorrent? Or is it all
>>>> about scaring women into voting for Democrats?
>>>> It sure as hell isn't about outlawing birth control, because Congress
>>>> hasn't voted on that issue in my lifetime.
>>>> Lon
>>> Why does it have to be a political issue at all? Why not let the women do as they wish? It's their body they are one's who have to deal with the consequences. Like taking illegal drugs, driving drunk, not wearing a seatbelt, smoking and all, it's personal choice, but we the tax payers will pay for their errors.
>>> Hank <~~~~~ runs with sissors
>> Damn! Did you miss EVERYTHING I wrote? Or just most of it?
>> Who has suggested limiting their choices?
>> What legislation has been presented, and who presented it?
>> You ASSumed the exact lie which caused my post. I refuse to address your
>> lie as though it were based upon anything factual. It's not.
>> Lon
> You dipshit. You asked a question which involved politicians and stated republicans would outlaw abortions if given a chance. You obviously missed the point of my answer, which is why does it have to be political and involve any laws.
> Hank <~~~~~ thinks Lon should get on birth control
I should wait for Lon to respond, but I have to ask, Can you read English??? Lon asked why Liberals continually lie and claim that Republicans would outlaw abortions. Did you miss the FACT that that claim is a LIE??? You really are an idiot - you should go back to ignoring political threads because every time you get into one, you simply prove that you are an idiot.
-- Bruce
"The free market punishes irresponsibility. Government rewards it." � Harry Browne
In other shocking news, if it wasn't bad enough that the poorest 20% comprise a fifth of all citizens, they're ALSO in the bottom quintile!
> On 8/15/2012 2:13 PM, Hank wrote:
>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 1:54:04 PM UTC-4, Lon VanOstran wrote:
>>> Hank wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:19:42 PM UTC-4, Lon VanOstran wrote:
>>>>> I've been contemplating. A serious question keeps baffling me.
>>>>> When someone wants to know what a Democrat believes to be the best
>>>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that they will ask the
>>>>> Democrat him or her self.
>>>>> When someone wants to know what a Republican believes to be the best
>>>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that every rumor ever
>>>>> published about that Republican is accepted as fact.
>>>>> Now, for the serious question.
>>>>> Why is it almost universally accepted that Republicans, given the
>>>>> opportunity, would outlaw abortion and prevent women from exercising
>>>>> free choice when it comes to their reproductive rights?
>>>>> I ask that question because the vast majority of the Republicans I
>>>>> know
>>>>> would rather change hearts than change laws regarding abortions other
>>>>> than late term abortions, and almost NONE of them would deny women
>>>>> access to birth control, yet more than half of the women in America
>>>>> fear
>>>>> Republicans over these issues.
>>>>> We've had opportunities, if indeed Republicans want to change these
>>>>> laws. Republicans have controlled the White House and Congress. Yet
>>>>> these fears have not been realized.
>>>>> During campaigns, Republicans are asked the right questions. They
>>>>> answer
>>>>> them. They are almost never believed, in spite of the fact that
>>>>> history
>>>>> is there to be examined. When Republicans DO address these issues,
>>>>> it's
>>>>> always about forcing someone to PAY for either abortion or birth
>>>>> control
>>>>> when doing so is in violation of their moral beliefs.
>>>>> Is it really all that important to Democrats that all employers
>>>>> must be
>>>>> forced to pay for insurance coverage they find abhorrent? Or is it all
>>>>> about scaring women into voting for Democrats?
>>>>> It sure as hell isn't about outlawing birth control, because Congress
>>>>> hasn't voted on that issue in my lifetime.
>>>>> Lon
>>>> Why does it have to be a political issue at all? Why not let the
>>>> women do as they wish? It's their body they are one's who have to
>>>> deal with the consequences. Like taking illegal drugs, driving
>>>> drunk, not wearing a seatbelt, smoking and all, it's personal
>>>> choice, but we the tax payers will pay for their errors.
>>>> Hank <~~~~~ runs with sissors
>>> Damn! Did you miss EVERYTHING I wrote? Or just most of it?
>>> Who has suggested limiting their choices?
>>> What legislation has been presented, and who presented it?
>>> You ASSumed the exact lie which caused my post. I refuse to address your
>>> lie as though it were based upon anything factual. It's not.
>>> Lon
>> You dipshit. You asked a question which involved politicians and
>> stated republicans would outlaw abortions if given a chance. You
>> obviously missed the point of my answer, which is why does it have to
>> be political and involve any laws.
>> Hank <~~~~~ thinks Lon should get on birth control
> I should wait for Lon to respond, but I have to ask, Can you read
> English??? Lon asked why Liberals continually lie and claim that
> Republicans would outlaw abortions. Did you miss the FACT that that
> claim is a LIE??? You really are an idiot - you should go back to
> ignoring political threads because every time you get into one, you
> simply prove that you are an idiot.
Weeeellll, *Not* all liberals lie and *not* all Republicans want to outlaw abortions *BUT* some liberals lie and *some* Republicans want to outlaw abortions.
> On 8/15/2012 5:48 PM, Bruce S wrote:
>> On 8/15/2012 2:13 PM, Hank wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 1:54:04 PM UTC-4, Lon VanOstran wrote:
>>>> Hank wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:19:42 PM UTC-4, Lon VanOstran wrote:
>>>>>> I've been contemplating. A serious question keeps baffling me.
>>>>>> When someone wants to know what a Democrat believes to be the best
>>>>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that they will ask the
>>>>>> Democrat him or her self.
>>>>>> When someone wants to know what a Republican believes to be the best
>>>>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that every rumor ever
>>>>>> published about that Republican is accepted as fact.
>>>>>> Now, for the serious question.
>>>>>> Why is it almost universally accepted that Republicans, given the
>>>>>> opportunity, would outlaw abortion and prevent women from exercising
>>>>>> free choice when it comes to their reproductive rights?
>>>>>> I ask that question because the vast majority of the Republicans I
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> would rather change hearts than change laws regarding abortions other
>>>>>> than late term abortions, and almost NONE of them would deny women
>>>>>> access to birth control, yet more than half of the women in America
>>>>>> fear
>>>>>> Republicans over these issues.
>>>>>> We've had opportunities, if indeed Republicans want to change these
>>>>>> laws. Republicans have controlled the White House and Congress. Yet
>>>>>> these fears have not been realized.
>>>>>> During campaigns, Republicans are asked the right questions. They
>>>>>> answer
>>>>>> them. They are almost never believed, in spite of the fact that
>>>>>> history
>>>>>> is there to be examined. When Republicans DO address these issues,
>>>>>> it's
>>>>>> always about forcing someone to PAY for either abortion or birth
>>>>>> control
>>>>>> when doing so is in violation of their moral beliefs.
>>>>>> Is it really all that important to Democrats that all employers
>>>>>> must be
>>>>>> forced to pay for insurance coverage they find abhorrent? Or is it
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> about scaring women into voting for Democrats?
>>>>>> It sure as hell isn't about outlawing birth control, because Congress
>>>>>> hasn't voted on that issue in my lifetime.
>>>>>> Lon
>>>>> Why does it have to be a political issue at all? Why not let the
>>>>> women do as they wish? It's their body they are one's who have to
>>>>> deal with the consequences. Like taking illegal drugs, driving
>>>>> drunk, not wearing a seatbelt, smoking and all, it's personal
>>>>> choice, but we the tax payers will pay for their errors.
>>>>> Hank <~~~~~ runs with sissors
>>>> Damn! Did you miss EVERYTHING I wrote? Or just most of it?
>>>> Who has suggested limiting their choices?
>>>> What legislation has been presented, and who presented it?
>>>> You ASSumed the exact lie which caused my post. I refuse to address
>>>> your
>>>> lie as though it were based upon anything factual. It's not.
>>>> Lon
>>> You dipshit. You asked a question which involved politicians and
>>> stated republicans would outlaw abortions if given a chance. You
>>> obviously missed the point of my answer, which is why does it have to
>>> be political and involve any laws.
>>> Hank <~~~~~ thinks Lon should get on birth control
>> I should wait for Lon to respond, but I have to ask, Can you read
>> English??? Lon asked why Liberals continually lie and claim that
>> Republicans would outlaw abortions. Did you miss the FACT that that
>> claim is a LIE??? You really are an idiot - you should go back to
>> ignoring political threads because every time you get into one, you
>> simply prove that you are an idiot.
> Weeeellll, *Not* all liberals lie and *not* all Republicans want to
> outlaw abortions *BUT* some liberals lie and *some* Republicans want to
> outlaw abortions.
So if you actually believe that some Republican politicians (after all we were discussing political parties) want to outlaw abortions, name one. Name even ONE Republican politician who has introduced any bill or constitutional amendment to either the US House of Representatives, or the US Senate for the purpose of outlawing abortions. If you can't do it, admit that every time a Democrat politician brings up the subject, it is to spread a LIE.
And, ALL liberals do lie - it is axiomatic - the only way to publicly support liberal politics is to lie about what you believe.
-- Bruce
"The free market punishes irresponsibility. Government rewards it." � Harry Browne
In other shocking news, if it wasn't bad enough that the poorest 20% comprise a fifth of all citizens, they're ALSO in the bottom quintile!
Hank wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 1:54:04 PM UTC-4, Lon VanOstran wrote:
>> Hank wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:19:42 PM UTC-4, Lon VanOstran wrote:
>>>> I've been contemplating. A serious question keeps baffling me.
>>>> When someone wants to know what a Democrat believes to be the best
>>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that they will ask the
>>>> Democrat him or her self.
>>>> When someone wants to know what a Republican believes to be the best
>>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that every rumor ever
>>>> published about that Republican is accepted as fact.
>>>> Now, for the serious question.
>>>> Why is it almost universally accepted that Republicans, given the
>>>> opportunity, would outlaw abortion and prevent women from exercising
>>>> free choice when it comes to their reproductive rights?
>>>> I ask that question because the vast majority of the Republicans I know
>>>> would rather change hearts than change laws regarding abortions other
>>>> than late term abortions, and almost NONE of them would deny women
>>>> access to birth control, yet more than half of the women in America fear
>>>> Republicans over these issues.
>>>> We've had opportunities, if indeed Republicans want to change these
>>>> laws. Republicans have controlled the White House and Congress. Yet
>>>> these fears have not been realized.
>>>> During campaigns, Republicans are asked the right questions. They answer
>>>> them. They are almost never believed, in spite of the fact that history
>>>> is there to be examined. When Republicans DO address these issues, it's
>>>> always about forcing someone to PAY for either abortion or birth control
>>>> when doing so is in violation of their moral beliefs.
>>>> Is it really all that important to Democrats that all employers must be
>>>> forced to pay for insurance coverage they find abhorrent? Or is it all
>>>> about scaring women into voting for Democrats?
>>>> It sure as hell isn't about outlawing birth control, because Congress
>>>> hasn't voted on that issue in my lifetime.
>>>> Lon
>>> Why does it have to be a political issue at all? Why not let the women do as they wish? It's their body they are one's who have to deal with the consequences. Like taking illegal drugs, driving drunk, not wearing a seatbelt, smoking and all, it's personal choice, but we the tax payers will pay for their errors.
>>> Hank <~~~~~ runs with sissors
>> Damn! Did you miss EVERYTHING I wrote? Or just most of it?
>> Who has suggested limiting their choices?
>> What legislation has been presented, and who presented it?
>> You ASSumed the exact lie which caused my post. I refuse to address your
>> lie as though it were based upon anything factual. It's not.
>> Lon
> You dipshit. You asked a question which involved politicians and stated republicans would outlaw abortions if given a chance. You obviously missed the point of my answer, which is why does it have to be political and involve any laws.
> Hank <~~~~~ thinks Lon should get on birth control
This post was unnecessary. I already knew you were incapable of understanding the question I asked.
>>>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:19:42 PM UTC-4, Lon VanOstran wrote:
>>>>> I've been contemplating. A serious question keeps baffling me.
>>>>> When someone wants to know what a Democrat believes to be the best
>>>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that they will ask the
>>>>> Democrat him or her self.
>>>>> When someone wants to know what a Republican believes to be the best
>>>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that every rumor ever
>>>>> published about that Republican is accepted as fact.
>>>>> Now, for the serious question.
>>>>> Why is it almost universally accepted that Republicans, given the
>>>>> opportunity, would outlaw abortion and prevent women from exercising
>>>>> free choice when it comes to their reproductive rights?
>>>>> I ask that question because the vast majority of the Republicans I know
>>>>> would rather change hearts than change laws regarding abortions other
>>>>> than late term abortions, and almost NONE of them would deny women
>>>>> access to birth control, yet more than half of the women in America fear
>>>>> Republicans over these issues.
>>>>> We've had opportunities, if indeed Republicans want to change these
>>>>> laws. Republicans have controlled the White House and Congress. Yet
>>>>> these fears have not been realized.
>>>>> During campaigns, Republicans are asked the right questions. They answer
>>>>> them. They are almost never believed, in spite of the fact that history
>>>>> is there to be examined. When Republicans DO address these issues, it's
>>>>> always about forcing someone to PAY for either abortion or birth control
>>>>> when doing so is in violation of their moral beliefs.
>>>>> Is it really all that important to Democrats that all employers must be
>>>>> forced to pay for insurance coverage they find abhorrent? Or is it all
>>>>> about scaring women into voting for Democrats?
>>>>> It sure as hell isn't about outlawing birth control, because Congress
>>>>> hasn't voted on that issue in my lifetime.
>>>>> Lon
>>>> Why does it have to be a political issue at all? Why not let the women do as they wish? It's their body they are one's who have to deal with the consequences. Like taking illegal drugs, driving drunk, not wearing a seatbelt, smoking and all, it's personal choice, but we the tax payers will pay for their errors.
>>>> Hank <~~~~~ runs with sissors
>>> Damn! Did you miss EVERYTHING I wrote? Or just most of it?
>>> Who has suggested limiting their choices?
>>> What legislation has been presented, and who presented it?
>>> You ASSumed the exact lie which caused my post. I refuse to address your
>>> lie as though it were based upon anything factual. It's not.
>>> Lon
>> You dipshit. You asked a question which involved politicians and stated republicans would outlaw abortions if given a chance. You obviously missed the point of my answer, which is why does it have to be political and involve any laws.
>> Hank <~~~~~ thinks Lon should get on birth control
>I should wait for Lon to respond, but I have to ask, Can you read >English??? Lon asked why Liberals continually lie and claim that >Republicans would outlaw abortions. Did you miss the FACT that that >claim is a LIE??? You really are an idiot - you should go back to >ignoring political threads because every time you get into one, you >simply prove that you are an idiot.
The claim is not a lie if you listen to a lot of folks who vote
Republican over abortion like I did over gun control. Like it or not
there is a large constituency that believes what the Republican
platform says indicates more than a simple issue over payment.
Max wrote:
> Weeeellll, *Not* all liberals lie and *not* all Republicans want to
> outlaw abortions *BUT* some liberals lie and *some* Republicans want to
> outlaw abortions.
Well duh!!!!!!!
The most consistent lie told by politicians in America today, is that Republicans want to outlaw abortion and birth control. It's told to scare women into voting for Democrats. Never mind that an INTELLIGENT woman would notice that Republicans HAVE CONTROLLED both houses of Congress and the White House at the same time, and those laws weren't presented, let alone passed.
Yes! Some Republicans want both abortion and birth control outlawed. But SOME DEMOCRATS believe Elvis is still alive and hiding out in the White House basement.
Most Republicans, unlike most Democrats, recognize the fact that a law outlawing either one would be found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Sadly, it seems that an overwhelming percentage of women voters are as ignorant as Democrats believe them to be. The lie has been working for a long long long time. Sad! It's truly sad that so many women are that ignorant. Democrats depend on it. I wish women would educate themselves instead of living up to the Democrat stereotype.
>> >I should wait for Lon to respond, but I have to ask, Can you read
>> >English??? Lon asked why Liberals continually lie and claim that
>> >Republicans would outlaw abortions. Did you miss the FACT that that
>> >claim is a LIE??? You really are an idiot - you should go back to
>> >ignoring political threads because every time you get into one, you
>> >simply prove that you are an idiot.
> The claim is not a lie if you listen to a lot of folks who vote
> Republican over abortion like I did over gun control. Like it or not
> there is a large constituency that believes what the Republican
> platform says indicates more than a simple issue over payment.
So, I'll ask you the same question I asked Max. Since this was a discussion about political parties, can you name even one Republican member of Congress who has introduced any bill or constitutional amendment to outlaw abortion. If not then to make the claim is a lie.
-- Bruce
"The free market punishes irresponsibility. Government rewards it." Harry Browne
In other shocking news, if it wasn't bad enough that the poorest 20% comprise a fifth of all citizens, they're ALSO in the bottom quintile!
> On 8/15/2012 5:27 PM, Max wrote:
>> On 8/15/2012 5:48 PM, Bruce S wrote:
>>> On 8/15/2012 2:13 PM, Hank wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 1:54:04 PM UTC-4, Lon VanOstran wrote:
>>>>> Hank wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:19:42 PM UTC-4, Lon VanOstran wrote:
>>>>>>> I've been contemplating. A serious question keeps baffling me.
>>>>>>> When someone wants to know what a Democrat believes to be the best
>>>>>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that they will ask the
>>>>>>> Democrat him or her self.
>>>>>>> When someone wants to know what a Republican believes to be the best
>>>>>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that every rumor ever
>>>>>>> published about that Republican is accepted as fact.
>>>>>>> Now, for the serious question.
>>>>>>> Why is it almost universally accepted that Republicans, given the
>>>>>>> opportunity, would outlaw abortion and prevent women from exercising
>>>>>>> free choice when it comes to their reproductive rights?
>>>>>>> I ask that question because the vast majority of the Republicans I
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> would rather change hearts than change laws regarding abortions
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> than late term abortions, and almost NONE of them would deny women
>>>>>>> access to birth control, yet more than half of the women in America
>>>>>>> fear
>>>>>>> Republicans over these issues.
>>>>>>> We've had opportunities, if indeed Republicans want to change these
>>>>>>> laws. Republicans have controlled the White House and Congress. Yet
>>>>>>> these fears have not been realized.
>>>>>>> During campaigns, Republicans are asked the right questions. They
>>>>>>> answer
>>>>>>> them. They are almost never believed, in spite of the fact that
>>>>>>> history
>>>>>>> is there to be examined. When Republicans DO address these issues,
>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>> always about forcing someone to PAY for either abortion or birth
>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>> when doing so is in violation of their moral beliefs.
>>>>>>> Is it really all that important to Democrats that all employers
>>>>>>> must be
>>>>>>> forced to pay for insurance coverage they find abhorrent? Or is it
>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>> about scaring women into voting for Democrats?
>>>>>>> It sure as hell isn't about outlawing birth control, because
>>>>>>> Congress
>>>>>>> hasn't voted on that issue in my lifetime.
>>>>>>> Lon
>>>>>> Why does it have to be a political issue at all? Why not let the
>>>>>> women do as they wish? It's their body they are one's who have to
>>>>>> deal with the consequences. Like taking illegal drugs, driving
>>>>>> drunk, not wearing a seatbelt, smoking and all, it's personal
>>>>>> choice, but we the tax payers will pay for their errors.
>>>>>> Hank <~~~~~ runs with sissors
>>>>> Damn! Did you miss EVERYTHING I wrote? Or just most of it?
>>>>> Who has suggested limiting their choices?
>>>>> What legislation has been presented, and who presented it?
>>>>> You ASSumed the exact lie which caused my post. I refuse to address
>>>>> your
>>>>> lie as though it were based upon anything factual. It's not.
>>>>> Lon
>>>> You dipshit. You asked a question which involved politicians and
>>>> stated republicans would outlaw abortions if given a chance. You
>>>> obviously missed the point of my answer, which is why does it have to
>>>> be political and involve any laws.
>>>> Hank <~~~~~ thinks Lon should get on birth control
>>> I should wait for Lon to respond, but I have to ask, Can you read
>>> English??? Lon asked why Liberals continually lie and claim that
>>> Republicans would outlaw abortions. Did you miss the FACT that that
>>> claim is a LIE??? You really are an idiot - you should go back to
>>> ignoring political threads because every time you get into one, you
>>> simply prove that you are an idiot.
>> Weeeellll, *Not* all liberals lie and *not* all Republicans want to
>> outlaw abortions *BUT* some liberals lie and *some* Republicans want to
>> outlaw abortions.
> So if you actually believe that some Republican politicians (after all
> we were discussing political parties) want to outlaw abortions, name
> one. Name even ONE Republican politician who has introduced any bill or
> constitutional amendment to either the US House of Representatives, or
> the US Senate for the purpose of outlawing abortions. If you can't do
> it, admit that every time a Democrat politician brings up the subject,
> it is to spread a LIE.
> And, ALL liberals do lie - it is axiomatic - the only way to publicly
> support liberal politics is to lie about what you believe.
I'm using the term Republican as a term to describe those who aren't moderates or liberals. I personally know of a very large number of people who fit that description. Some are adamantly opposed to abortion and will support any politician who takes a stand against abortion (think: Michelle Bachmann)
They consider abortion as "murder", plain and simple. No exceptions.
The abortion issue is a litmus test with them.
Why is it automatically a "lie" when someone's politics disagree with yours? I know several liberals who are totally convinced, they really truly believe, that our society will be a better society if the "riches" are more evenly distributed. They can expound for hours about the value of labor; about the importance of public schools and why the poor will always be poor if they don't have access to proper education and on and on about "liberal" causes. They're not "lying". they might be misled, misinformed, improperly educated, poorly read and any number of other descriptives but they're not "lying". They are merely giving "their truth".
Now if you're talking about the MSM, they *do* lie and it's not only obvious, it's disgusting.
Max wrote:
> On 8/15/2012 6:44 PM, Bruce S wrote:
>> On 8/15/2012 5:27 PM, Max wrote:
>>> On 8/15/2012 5:48 PM, Bruce S wrote:
>>>> On 8/15/2012 2:13 PM, Hank wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 1:54:04 PM UTC-4, Lon VanOstran wrote:
>>>>>> Hank wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:19:42 PM UTC-4, Lon VanOstran wrote:
>>>>>>>> I've been contemplating. A serious question keeps baffling me.
>>>>>>>> When someone wants to know what a Democrat believes to be the best
>>>>>>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that they will ask the
>>>>>>>> Democrat him or her self.
>>>>>>>> When someone wants to know what a Republican believes to be the
>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>> policy, it's almost universally practiced that every rumor ever
>>>>>>>> published about that Republican is accepted as fact.
>>>>>>>> Now, for the serious question.
>>>>>>>> Why is it almost universally accepted that Republicans, given the
>>>>>>>> opportunity, would outlaw abortion and prevent women from
>>>>>>>> exercising
>>>>>>>> free choice when it comes to their reproductive rights?
>>>>>>>> I ask that question because the vast majority of the Republicans I
>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>> would rather change hearts than change laws regarding abortions
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> than late term abortions, and almost NONE of them would deny women
>>>>>>>> access to birth control, yet more than half of the women in America
>>>>>>>> fear
>>>>>>>> Republicans over these issues.
>>>>>>>> We've had opportunities, if indeed Republicans want to change these
>>>>>>>> laws. Republicans have controlled the White House and Congress. Yet
>>>>>>>> these fears have not been realized.
>>>>>>>> During campaigns, Republicans are asked the right questions. They
>>>>>>>> answer
>>>>>>>> them. They are almost never believed, in spite of the fact that
>>>>>>>> history
>>>>>>>> is there to be examined. When Republicans DO address these issues,
>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>> always about forcing someone to PAY for either abortion or birth
>>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>>> when doing so is in violation of their moral beliefs.
>>>>>>>> Is it really all that important to Democrats that all employers
>>>>>>>> must be
>>>>>>>> forced to pay for insurance coverage they find abhorrent? Or is it
>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>> about scaring women into voting for Democrats?
>>>>>>>> It sure as hell isn't about outlawing birth control, because
>>>>>>>> Congress
>>>>>>>> hasn't voted on that issue in my lifetime.
>>>>>>>> Lon
>>>>>>> Why does it have to be a political issue at all? Why not let the
>>>>>>> women do as they wish? It's their body they are one's who have to
>>>>>>> deal with the consequences. Like taking illegal drugs, driving
>>>>>>> drunk, not wearing a seatbelt, smoking and all, it's personal
>>>>>>> choice, but we the tax payers will pay for their errors.
>>>>>>> Hank <~~~~~ runs with sissors
>>>>>> Damn! Did you miss EVERYTHING I wrote? Or just most of it?
>>>>>> Who has suggested limiting their choices?
>>>>>> What legislation has been presented, and who presented it?
>>>>>> You ASSumed the exact lie which caused my post. I refuse to address
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> lie as though it were based upon anything factual. It's not.
>>>>>> Lon
>>>>> You dipshit. You asked a question which involved politicians and
>>>>> stated republicans would outlaw abortions if given a chance. You
>>>>> obviously missed the point of my answer, which is why does it have to
>>>>> be political and involve any laws.
>>>>> Hank <~~~~~ thinks Lon should get on birth control
>>>> I should wait for Lon to respond, but I have to ask, Can you read
>>>> English??? Lon asked why Liberals continually lie and claim that
>>>> Republicans would outlaw abortions. Did you miss the FACT that that
>>>> claim is a LIE??? You really are an idiot - you should go back to
>>>> ignoring political threads because every time you get into one, you
>>>> simply prove that you are an idiot.
>>> Weeeellll, *Not* all liberals lie and *not* all Republicans want to
>>> outlaw abortions *BUT* some liberals lie and *some* Republicans want to
>>> outlaw abortions.
>> So if you actually believe that some Republican politicians (after all
>> we were discussing political parties) want to outlaw abortions, name
>> one. Name even ONE Republican politician who has introduced any bill or
>> constitutional amendment to either the US House of Representatives, or
>> the US Senate for the purpose of outlawing abortions. If you can't do
>> it, admit that every time a Democrat politician brings up the subject,
>> it is to spread a LIE.
>> And, ALL liberals do lie - it is axiomatic - the only way to publicly
>> support liberal politics is to lie about what you believe.
> I'm using the term Republican as a term to describe those who aren't
> moderates or liberals. I personally know of a very large number of
> people who fit that description. Some are adamantly opposed to abortion
> and will support any politician who takes a stand against abortion
> (think: Michelle Bachmann)
> They consider abortion as "murder", plain and simple. No exceptions.
> The abortion issue is a litmus test with them.
> Why is it automatically a "lie" when someone's politics disagree with
> yours? I know several liberals who are totally convinced, they really
> truly believe, that our society will be a better society if the "riches"
> are more evenly distributed. They can expound for hours about the value
> of labor; about the importance of public schools and why the poor will
> always be poor if they don't have access to proper education and on and
> on about "liberal" causes. They're not "lying". they might be misled,
> misinformed, improperly educated, poorly read and any number of other
> descriptives but they're not "lying". They are merely giving "their truth".
> Now if you're talking about the MSM, they *do* lie and it's not only
> obvious, it's disgusting.
Why did you ignore the part about laws being proposed?
We on the right could focus on the fringe nutcases on the left who want all logging shut down, all dams removed, and all traces of humanity erased from the face of the earth. But we don't. We focus on what Democrats are REALLY DOING. The truth is that the laws outlawing abortion and birth control are NOT BEING PRESENTED or voted on. Not when Democrats are in control, and not when Republicans are in control. It DOESN'T HAPPEN.
nothermark wrote:
>> I should wait for Lon to respond, but I have to ask, Can you read
>> >English??? Lon asked why Liberals continually lie and claim that
>> >Republicans would outlaw abortions. Did you miss the FACT that that
>> >claim is a LIE??? You really are an idiot - you should go back to
>> >ignoring political threads because every time you get into one, you
>> >simply prove that you are an idiot.
> The claim is not a lie if you listen to a lot of folks who vote
> Republican over abortion like I did over gun control. Like it or not
> there is a large constituency that believes what the Republican
> platform says indicates more than a simple issue over payment.
It's a lie because there is no danger of it happening. Lefties USE IT, knowing full well that Republicans HAVE BEEN IN CHARGE without making it happen.
It's a lie. You KNOW it's a lie and keep telling it anyway. You KNOW IT'S A LIE because we've been over this before, and you keep telling the same tired old lies.
>> So if you actually believe that some Republican politicians (after all
>> we were discussing political parties) want to outlaw abortions, name
>> one. Name even ONE Republican politician who has introduced any bill or
>> constitutional amendment to either the US House of Representatives, or
>> the US Senate for the purpose of outlawing abortions. If you can't do
>> it, admit that every time a Democrat politician brings up the subject,
>> it is to spread a LIE.
>> And, ALL liberals do lie - it is axiomatic - the only way to publicly
>> support liberal politics is to lie about what you believe.
> I'm using the term Republican as a term to describe those who aren't
> moderates or liberals. I personally know of a very large number of
> people who fit that description. Some are adamantly opposed to abortion
> and will support any politician who takes a stand against abortion
> (think: Michelle Bachmann)
Whether you choose to think of it in "official" terms or not, when someone makes the statement that "Republicans want this or that" they are not (by definition) talking about the occasional man on the street - they are (again, by definition) talking about the official position of the Republican Party. It is not now, and has not been for at least 20 years, the policy of the Republican Party to outlaw abortions. Therefore, for anyone to make the claim that Republicans want to ban abortions, they are telling a lie.
> They consider abortion as "murder", plain and simple. No exceptions.
> The abortion issue is a litmus test with them.
> Why is it automatically a "lie" when someone's politics disagree with
> yours?
If it is simply a matter of disagreement, I do not accuse anyone of lying. On the other hand, when they make a statement and attribute it to me (or the Republican party, or even to you) and that statement is demonstrably wrong, I WILL accuse them of a LIE - because it is a lie.
> I know several liberals who are totally convinced, they really
> truly believe, that our society will be a better society if the "riches"
> are more evenly distributed. They can expound for hours about the value
> of labor; about the importance of public schools and why the poor will
> always be poor if they don't have access to proper education and on and
> on about "liberal" causes. They're not "lying". they might be misled,
> misinformed, improperly educated, poorly read and any number of other
> descriptives but they're not "lying". They are merely giving "their truth".
> Now if you're talking about the MSM, they *do* lie and it's not only
> obvious, it's disgusting.
I will mostly agree with on the above points - with the proviso that on your first point about some people merely being misinformed, we are limiting that excuse only to people with no serious party affiliation. For anyone to reach anything approaching "management" level (not to mention elected level) they have been exposed to the truth. And anyone who has been exposed to the truth and rejected it is ignorant by choice, and that is no different from being in on the lie.
As examples, anyone who supports the claim that Mitt paid no income tax (thus supporting Harry Reid) is a liar.
Anyone who repeats the lie that the Republicans want to cut Medicare - even though the truth of the numbers has been available for two years - is a liar.
Anyone who repeats the lie that Romney's association with Bain Capitol was responsible for the death of the woman in the ad - even though the truth of her having other insurance, and Romney not being involved with Bain at the time - is a liar.
Every one of those lies is widely told by Democrat politicians, and supported by people who have remained willfully ignorant. Everyone who is part of that pattern of lies is a liar. As near as I can tell, that includes EVERYONE in the democrat party.
-- Bruce
"The free market punishes irresponsibility. Government rewards it." � Harry Browne
In other shocking news, if it wasn't bad enough that the poorest 20% comprise a fifth of all citizens, they're ALSO in the bottom quintile!
>>> So if you actually believe that some Republican politicians (after all
>>> we were discussing political parties) want to outlaw abortions, name
>>> one. Name even ONE Republican politician who has introduced any bill or
>>> constitutional amendment to either the US House of Representatives, or
>>> the US Senate for the purpose of outlawing abortions. If you can't do
>>> it, admit that every time a Democrat politician brings up the subject,
>>> it is to spread a LIE.
>>> And, ALL liberals do lie - it is axiomatic - the only way to publicly
>>> support liberal politics is to lie about what you believe.
>> I'm using the term Republican as a term to describe those who aren't
>> moderates or liberals. I personally know of a very large number of
>> people who fit that description. Some are adamantly opposed to abortion
>> and will support any politician who takes a stand against abortion
>> (think: Michelle Bachmann)
> Whether you choose to think of it in "official" terms or not, when
> someone makes the statement that "Republicans want this or that" they
> are not (by definition) talking about the occasional man on the street -
> they are (again, by definition) talking about the official position of
> the Republican Party. It is not now, and has not been for at least 20
> years, the policy of the Republican Party to outlaw abortions.
> Therefore, for anyone to make the claim that Republicans want to ban
> abortions, they are telling a lie.
>> They consider abortion as "murder", plain and simple. No exceptions.
>> The abortion issue is a litmus test with them.
>> Why is it automatically a "lie" when someone's politics disagree with
>> yours?
> If it is simply a matter of disagreement, I do not accuse anyone of
> lying. On the other hand, when they make a statement and attribute it
> to me (or the Republican party, or even to you) and that statement is
> demonstrably wrong, I WILL accuse them of a LIE - because it is a lie.
>> I know several liberals who are totally convinced, they really
>> truly believe, that our society will be a better society if the "riches"
>> are more evenly distributed. They can expound for hours about the value
>> of labor; about the importance of public schools and why the poor will
>> always be poor if they don't have access to proper education and on and
>> on about "liberal" causes. They're not "lying". they might be misled,
>> misinformed, improperly educated, poorly read and any number of other
>> descriptives but they're not "lying". They are merely giving "their
>> truth".
>> Now if you're talking about the MSM, they *do* lie and it's not only
>> obvious, it's disgusting.
> I will mostly agree with on the above points - with the proviso that on
> your first point about some people merely being misinformed, we are
> limiting that excuse only to people with no serious party affiliation.
> For anyone to reach anything approaching "management" level (not to
> mention elected level) they have been exposed to the truth. And anyone
> who has been exposed to the truth and rejected it is ignorant by choice,
> and that is no different from being in on the lie.
> As examples, anyone who supports the claim that Mitt paid no income tax
> (thus supporting Harry Reid) is a liar.
> Anyone who repeats the lie that the Republicans want to cut Medicare -
> even though the truth of the numbers has been available for two years -
> is a liar.
> Anyone who repeats the lie that Romney's association with Bain Capitol
> was responsible for the death of the woman in the ad - even though the
> truth of her having other insurance, and Romney not being involved with
> Bain at the time - is a liar.
> Every one of those lies is widely told by Democrat politicians, and
> supported by people who have remained willfully ignorant. Everyone who
> is part of that pattern of lies is a liar. As near as I can tell, that
> includes EVERYONE in the democrat party.
And of course, I forgot the big lie told every day by every democrat, at every level. The lie of the Rich not paying their fair share. The numbers have been posted here several times showing that after the Bush tax cuts, the "Rich" not only paid a greater share of overall tax revenue, they paid more dollars than they had previously. This is not a matter of opinion it is a matter of facts - the rich pay more not than they ever have, and the liberals continue to lie and say they got tax cuts.
In order to be a liberal, a person must be happy to be a liar.
-- Bruce
"The free market punishes irresponsibility. Government rewards it." � Harry Browne
In other shocking news, if it wasn't bad enough that the poorest 20% comprise a fifth of all citizens, they're ALSO in the bottom quintile!
On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 20:41:16 -0700, Bruce S <bruce.sn...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>And of course, I forgot the big lie told every day by every democrat, at >every level. The lie of the Rich not paying their fair share. The >numbers have been posted here several times showing that after the Bush >tax cuts, the "Rich" not only paid a greater share of overall tax >revenue, they paid more dollars than they had previously. This is not a >matter of opinion it is a matter of facts - the rich pay more not than >they ever have, and the liberals continue to lie and say they got tax >cuts.
>In order to be a liberal, a person must be happy to be a liar.
Or to be so envious and jealous as to never let facts moderate their
hatred of the better off who must have screwed them out of their Fair
Share. Wealth must be a matter of luck and chicanery. If it was a
matter of hard work and dedication the losers might have to bear some
of the blame for their station in life. That will never happen, The
Wealthy stole that money right out of their pocket and must be
punished.
NM stated in another post - "When I win somebody else loses" That
pretty much sums up their mindset.
