Ping: Bob Hatch

[Kenn Smith]

There's an interesting local "gun grabbing" story you might want to keep
track of.

It seems that on March 16th Army MSgt Christopher Grisham set out on a
ten mile road hike with his son to earn a Boy Scout badge for the son.
He carried a side arm and an AR15, the 15 slung across his chest.

Some concerned citizen called in to the Temple, TX PD and said that
there was an armed man walking down the road. An officer went to
investigate. It seems that the officer attempted to grab the AR15 from
Sgt Grisham and met with resistance. The officer then charged Grisham
with resisting arrest, a felony. The charge was later reduced to
Interferint with a Police Offcer's duty, a misdemeanor. That charge is
still waiting to be tried.

As a result of the arrest and charge the Army placed a red flag, "law
enforcement investigation" on his record. The results, thus far, are
that his security clearance has been suspended, he lost a coveted
instructor spot at the Military Intelligence Center of Excellence, he
has had a general officer letter of reprimand placed in his file citing
Article 134 of the UCMJ - the article which says that if we can't get
you any other way we'll nail you here - and had a recommendation for the
Meritorius Service Medal returned without action. Also, he can't take
leave or otherwise leave the area.

The Temple PD has thus far refused to release the officer's dash cam
recording of the incident. To his credit Sgt Grisham is fighting back.
Through his attorney he recently filed a $1,267,000 letter of demand on
the City of Temple which demands return of his weapons, $400,000 in
compensation for false imprisonment and intentional infliction of
emotional distress. I'm sure that one will end up in court.

I am not a rabid "gun grabber" believer but this smacks of a serious
violation of Sgt Grisham's right to keep and bear arms.

[Hunter Hampton]

On 5/24/2013 9:51 AM, Kenn Smith wrote:
> I am not a rabid "gun grabber" believer but this smacks of a serious
> violation of Sgt Grisham's right to keep and bear arms.

I'm not either Kenn, but I think Sgt. Grisham showed a serious lack of
judgement walking down the road with a scary looking gun on his chest.

I would wonder why anyone wouldn't call the police if they saw him,
unless he was in uniform....even then it would seem prudent to have him
checked out. Surely every thrift shop in town has uniforms for sale....

By detaining him, they could have prevented a school shooting for
example....

His choice to not allow a police officer to take his weapon was his
second stupid mistake.... if I were a cop I would want to disarm him
first, then ask questions.

His judgement that day is what got him where he is now.

Hunter

[Bruce S]

No, what got him into trouble was an arrogant cop who believed he was
above the law. Texas has legal open carry - unless the cop had
information that a crime had been committed, and that Sgt Grisham could
be a suspect, he should have just minded his own business and left the
Sgt alone. The cop was wrong.

--
Bruce

"In any compromise between food and poison, it is only death that can
win. In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can
profit."

[George Anthony]

"Bruce S" <bruce...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:kno89s$jql$1...@dont-email.me...

Some of these local yokel cops think they, themselves, are above the law.
Many of these local deputies got jobs through political paybacks and have
not been vetted very well, if at all. They give a bad name to the "good"
sensible officers. Give a man a fur coat (badge) and he thinks he's King
Kong (Eliot Ness)!

[Bob Hatch]

On 5/24/2013 10:12 AM, Hunter Hampton wrote:

> On 5/24/2013 9:51 AM, Kenn Smith wrote:
>> I am not a rabid "gun grabber" believer but this smacks of a serious
>> violation of Sgt Grisham's right to keep and bear arms.
>
> I'm not either Kenn, but I think Sgt. Grisham showed a serious lack of
> judgement walking down the road with a scary looking gun on his chest.

There you go. A scary looking gun. That's our Hunter, through and through.

>
> I would wonder why anyone wouldn't call the police if they saw him,
> unless he was in uniform....even then it would seem prudent to have him
> checked out. Surely every thrift shop in town has uniforms for sale....
>
> By detaining him, they could have prevented a school shooting for
> example....

Yup, waking with his son to help him obtain a merit badge. What do you
think the merit badge was for, School Shootings I?

>
> His choice to not allow a police officer to take his weapon was his
> second stupid mistake.... if I were a cop I would want to disarm him
> first, then ask questions.
>
> His judgement that day is what got him where he is now.
>
> Hunter
>
>

--
I do not carry a gun hoping that
I'll be able to shoot someone, anymore than
I carry a jack hoping I'll have a flat
tire.
Me.

[Hank]

On Friday, May 24, 2013 1:38:06 PM UTC-4, bruce wrote:
> On 5/24/2013 10:12 AM, Hunter Hampton wrote:

>
> > I'm not either Kenn, but I think Sgt. Grisham showed a serious lack of
>
> > judgement walking down the road with a scary looking gun on his chest.
>
> >
>
> > I would wonder why anyone wouldn't call the police if they saw him,
>
> > unless he was in uniform....even then it would seem prudent to have him
>
> > checked out. Surely every thrift shop in town has uniforms for sale....
>
> >
>
> > By detaining him, they could have prevented a school shooting for
>
> > example....
>
> >
>
> > His choice to not allow a police officer to take his weapon was his
>
> > second stupid mistake.... if I were a cop I would want to disarm him
>
> > first, then ask questions.
>
> >
>
> > His judgement that day is what got him where he is now.
>
> >
>
> > Hunter
>
>
>
> No, what got him into trouble was an arrogant cop who believed he was
>
> above the law. Texas has legal open carry - unless the cop had
>
> information that a crime had been committed, and that Sgt Grisham could
>
> be a suspect, he should have just minded his own business and left the
>
> Sgt alone. The cop was wrong.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Bruce

There you go again. Were you really a cop, or are you just a wannabe? By your last sentence you believe the cop was wrong. However, you also stated "unless the cop had information that a crime had been committed". Do you know all the facts? I am guessing you were not present when this incident occurred, therefore you are passing judgement before the facts are presented. You're worse than any of the MSM.

I agree with Hunter, in so much as that if I were a cop that was responding to a call about a man with a gun, I would expect him to give me his weapon until I investigated the incident. I could be wrong, but I think any calls where there is a possibilty of a weapon (guns, knives, etc,), the cops always asked if you have any weapons on you and unless you are looking for trouble, you either tell tehm or surrender them. Since he resisted to some extent (as reported but not verified), he was lucky he wasn't shot. It appears to be another gun nut trying to test the laws and took it too far.

Unlike you, I will give the benefit of doubt to the cop. I don't have a chart, report, or study, but in my little area, cops are usually more right than wrong.

Hank <~~~~waits for facts

[K Miller]

Kenn Smith wrote:
> There's an interesting local "gun grabbing" story you might want to
> keep track of.
>

<snip>

>
> I am not a rabid "gun grabber" believer but this smacks of a serious
> violation of Sgt Grisham's right to keep and bear arms.

I don't know the truth of what happened but I can say that if a police
officer requests that I surrender my weapon (scary or not) he's going to get
it immediately and won't have to ask a second time. My attorney can argue
the legal issues concerning the request later.

[anne watson]

"Kenn Smith" <grizzl...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:25741-519...@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net...

> There's an interesting local "gun grabbing" story you might want to keep
> track of.
>
> It seems that on March 16th Army MSgt Christopher Grisham set out on a
> ten mile road hike with his son to earn a Boy Scout badge for the son.
>

Some scenarios. Why does he need or want to carry an AR15 on a peaceful
hike?

In view of what has happened in the US, why wouldn't a person report a
military man ? in uniform? carry a rifle designed to rapidly kill persons?

Why wouldn't a MSGT the most senior rank of enlisted personnel in the US
Army know that there might be in trouble for doing so.?

Why wouldn't the senior officers wonder what was up with this person who
is supposed to know about the use of arms in the US. After all only
National Guard should be protecting in the US.?

Why wouldn't a police officer attempt to protect the population of his
town/city/county?

I have not made up my mind about the freedom to bear arms, but these
scenarios leave more questions.
Anne

[nothermark]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 11:26:23 -0700 (PDT), Hank <nineb...@aol.com>
wrote:

I bet they are more wrong than you think. The system is designed to
hide it from you.

I'm still trying to figure out why there was a problem with him
walking down the road with a gun. The most the cop should have done
is ask why. I see no need to do that.

The real point is why has out society gotten so paranoid about folks
doing legal thing...

[Hunter Hampton]

On 5/24/2013 12:11 PM, K Miller wrote:
> I don't know the truth of what happened but I can say that if a police
> officer requests that I surrender my weapon (scary or not) he's going to get
> it immediately and won't have to ask a second time. My attorney can argue
> the legal issues concerning the request later.

Bingo......

Hunter

[Hunter Hampton]

On 5/24/2013 1:00 PM, anne watson wrote:
>>
>
> Some scenarios. Why does he need or want to carry an AR15 on a peaceful
> hike?
>
> In view of what has happened in the US, why wouldn't a person report a
> military man ? in uniform? carry a rifle designed to rapidly kill
> persons?
>
> Why wouldn't a MSGT the most senior rank of enlisted personnel in the
> US Army know that there might be in trouble for doing so.?
>
> Why wouldn't the senior officers wonder what was up with this person
> who is supposed to know about the use of arms in the US. After all
> only National Guard should be protecting in the US.?
>
> Why wouldn't a police officer attempt to protect the population of his
> town/city/county?
>
> I have not made up my mind about the freedom to bear arms, but these
> scenarios leave more questions.
> Anne

I've missed you Anne....

Hunter

[nothermark]

Why not? It's legal.

In many parts of the country it is wise as there are problem animals
like feral pigs that will attack people. You walk unarmed at your
peril.

Further, as an active military person he is required to keep
inphysical condition to hike miles with a pack and gun. What better
way to keep in shape do you have?

[bill horne]

Here's much of the truth of what happened - with TX law and video.
http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/04/veteran-arrested-for-legally-but-rudely-displaying-rifle/
The unbroken video is here:
http://watchdogwire.com/texas/2013/04/16/video-released-of-central-texas-soldiers-arrest/

It looks to me he went trolling, and caught part of what he was after.

I'll give the cops credit for maintaining their cool - Grisham
probably wanted them to lose it. On camera.

--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.

[bill horne]

Those aren't scenarios. They're just rhetorical and loaded questions
from a person who apparently knows little about the actual scenario or
about gun laws.

For example, the answer to your first question is that a person who is
legally carrying doesn't have to have a reason. Your question implies
that he does.

[Kenn Smith]

Hunter, I can give you a number of reasons why he might be carrying a
"scarey" weapon. The confronation happened on the edge of Temple -
pretty open country. It could be, for example, that and his son were
going to do some target shooting at the end of the hike - well outside
the city limits and out in the boondocks. He was not in uniform for
Anne's information but it really shouldn't have made any difference it
he was or wasn't. Also, FYI, MSgt is not the highest enlisted rank in
the Army, Command Sgt Major is.

I don't blame the officer for being cautious - that's standard police
practice. But escalating the situation to the level it became probably
wasn't necessary. If he really felt threatened the usual procedure is
to retreat to your patrol unit and call for backup and/or a supervisor.
There is as yet no evidence that he did either.

The bottom line is that he was a citizen on a hike with his son and
lawfully carrying a weapon. Now his career is on hold and apparently in
shambles because of possible overreaction by one police officer and,
later, his superiors.

My suspicion is that when the misdemeanor item goes to trial the judge
will toss it. That, however, doesn't determine what the Army will do.

I have seven firearms in my home, 1 handgun, one long gun and 5
shotguns. If I walk out into my backyard carrying one should I be
arrested? If I go out to the sidewalk in front of my house with one
should I be arrested?

[bill horne]

To stop police from overstepping their authority, someone has to make
a scene. This appears to be one of those cases - but there are too
many gray areas in this event to say who's "at fault" yet. IMO.

I still give the cops credit for maintaining their cool. They were
being baited hard - by a guy who obviously has some experience at baiting.

[K Miller]

bill horne wrote:
> Hunter Hampton wrote:
>> On 5/24/2013 12:11 PM, K Miller wrote:
>>> I don't know the truth of what happened but I can say that if a
>>> police officer requests that I surrender my weapon (scary or not)
>>> he's going to get
>>> it immediately and won't have to ask a second time. My attorney can
>>> argue
>>> the legal issues concerning the request later.
>>
>> Bingo......
>
> To stop police from overstepping their authority, someone has to make
> a scene.

I think an after the fact scene making would suffice for me.

>This appears to be one of those cases - but there are too
> many gray areas in this event to say who's "at fault" yet. IMO.

I agree with that and we may never know the full story.

[bill horne]

Kenn Smith wrote:
> Hunter, I can give you a number of reasons why he might be carrying a
> "scarey" weapon. The confronation happened on the edge of Temple -
> pretty open country. It could be, for example, that and his son were
> going to do some target shooting at the end of the hike - well outside
> the city limits and out in the boondocks.

That's nice, but the law doesn't require a "reason" to legally carry.
Please don't give importance to an irrelevant factor by providing a
"reason".

> He was not in uniform for
> Anne's information but it really shouldn't have made any difference it
> he was or wasn't. Also, FYI, MSgt is not the highest enlisted rank in
> the Army, Command Sgt Major is.
>
> I don't blame the officer for being cautious - that's standard police
> practice. But escalating the situation to the level it became probably
> wasn't necessary. If he really felt threatened the usual procedure is
> to retreat to your patrol unit and call for backup and/or a supervisor.
> There is as yet no evidence that he did either.
>
> The bottom line is that he was a citizen on a hike with his son and
> lawfully carrying a weapon. Now his career is on hold and apparently in
> shambles because of possible overreaction by one police officer and,
> later, his superiors.

I think the cops acted much better than they could have, and Grisham
acted much worse than he could have. IMO, Grisham wanted the cops to
act worse than they did.

> My suspicion is that when the misdemeanor item goes to trial the judge
> will toss it. That, however, doesn't determine what the Army will do.
>
> I have seven firearms in my home, 1 handgun, one long gun and 5
> shotguns. If I walk out into my backyard carrying one should I be
> arrested? If I go out to the sidewalk in front of my house with one
> should I be arrested?
>

[bill horne]

K Miller wrote:
> bill horne wrote:
>> Hunter Hampton wrote:
>>> On 5/24/2013 12:11 PM, K Miller wrote:
>>>> I don't know the truth of what happened but I can say that if a
>>>> police officer requests that I surrender my weapon (scary or not)
>>>> he's going to get
>>>> it immediately and won't have to ask a second time. My attorney can
>>>> argue
>>>> the legal issues concerning the request later.
>>>
>>> Bingo......
>>
>> To stop police from overstepping their authority, someone has to make
>> a scene.
>
> I think an after the fact scene making would suffice for me.
>
>> This appears to be one of those cases - but there are too
>> many gray areas in this event to say who's "at fault" yet. IMO.
>
> I agree with that and we may never know the full story.

Most of the story - except for the beginning - is in the video. And I
think that what happened just before the video started is important.

>> I still give the cops credit for maintaining their cool. They were
>> being baited hard - by a guy who obviously has some experience at
>> baiting.
>
>

[K Miller]

bill horne wrote:

> K Miller wrote:
>>
>> I agree with that and we may never know the full story.
>
> Most of the story - except for the beginning - is in the video. And I
> think that what happened just before the video started is important.

I agree.

>
>>> I still give the cops credit for maintaining their cool. They were
>>> being baited hard - by a guy who obviously has some experience at
>>> baiting.

Dealing with assholes has got to be one of the hardest parts of their jobs,
in my opinion, and all I can see that this asshole is teaching his kid is
how to be an asshole.

[Lone Haranguer]

Sounds like a Nervous Nellie liberal called an overly zealous cop.

LZ

[Hunter Hampton]

On 5/24/2013 2:06 PM, Kenn Smith wrote:
> I have seven firearms in my home, 1 handgun, one long gun and 5
> shotguns. If I walk out into my backyard carrying one should I be
> arrested? If I go out to the sidewalk in front of my house with one
> should I be arrested?

He wasn't arrested for carrying the gun, he was arrested for refusing to
turn it over when a policeman asked him to....

If I ever see someone carrying an AR15, where its suspicious, I will
dial 911.

Hunter

[Bruce S]

The way you can tell the cop was wrong is that the police dept has not
released the dash cam tape of the incident. If the cop had been in the
right it would have been released the same day.

[Bruce S]

Meekly submitting to tyranny will not end the tyranny.

[Lone Haranguer]

Hunter Hampton wrote:
> On 5/24/2013 9:51 AM, Kenn Smith wrote:
>> I am not a rabid "gun grabber" believer but this smacks of a
>> serious
>> violation of Sgt Grisham's right to keep and bear arms.
>
> I'm not either Kenn, but I think Sgt. Grisham showed a serious
> lack of judgement walking down the road with a scary looking
> gun on his chest.

"scary" is in the mind of the beholder. I've walked down many a
road carrying guns without anyone calling the cops. That
includes Spain while Franco was the dictator-in-charge.

>
> I would wonder why anyone wouldn't call the police if they saw
> him, unless he was in uniform....even then it would seem
> prudent to have him checked out. Surely every thrift shop in
> town has uniforms for sale....

I wonder if the cop asked for an ID before grabbing the gun......

>
> By detaining him, they could have prevented a school shooting
> for example....

Was he heading for a school? Is school still in session there?

>
> His choice to not allow a police officer to take his weapon was
> his second stupid mistake.... if I were a cop I would want to
> disarm him first, then ask questions.

The Army teaches you to keep possession of your weapon when
someone tries to grab it.

>
> His judgement that day is what got him where he is now.
>
> Hunter

I hope he gets to see the cop's dash-cam video before it disappears.

LZ
>
>

[Lone Haranguer]

Pending more facts and not knowing either party I would trust the
judgement of a MSgt before trusting that of a cop.

Just my personal experience.

LZ

[Bruce S]

On 5/24/2013 1:00 PM, anne watson wrote:

> Some scenarios. Why does he need or want to carry an AR15 on a peaceful
> hike?

A meaningless question - the Constitution guarantees him the right to
keep and bear arms - what he needs is irrelevant. Do you NEED two
separate channels of nightly news? Rights aren't based on need - they
are RIGHTS.

> In view of what has happened in the US, why wouldn't a person report a
> military man ? in uniform? carry a rifle designed to rapidly kill
> persons?

A question based on ignorance (and media propaganda). It was a simple
semi automatic rifle - just like hunters have used for over a hundred
years. It was NOT a military rifle.

> Why wouldn't a MSGT the most senior rank of enlisted personnel in the
> US Army know that there might be in trouble for doing so.?

He was simply exercising his Constitutional right to keep and bear arms
- does he need permission to exercise his rights now? How about his
right to free speech - does he need permission to speak too?

> Why wouldn't the senior officers wonder what was up with this person
> who is supposed to know about the use of arms in the US. After all
> only National Guard should be protecting in the US.?

More ignorance. It is nobody's business if he is legally carrying a
rifle - and open carry is legal in Texas. Once more I have to ask -
what other Constitutional rights are you demanding that people seek
permission before they can exercise them.

> Why wouldn't a police officer attempt to protect the population of his
> town/city/county?

Maybe if the cop had been out protecting the population of his community
rather than harassing an honest citizen who was following the law, this
incident would not have happened.

> I have not made up my mind about the freedom to bear arms, but these
> scenarios leave more questions.
> Anne

You don't get a vote on the freedom to bear arms - it is a RIGHT granted
by God and guaranteed by the Constitution.

[Lone Haranguer]

anne watson wrote:
>
>
> "Kenn Smith" <grizzl...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:25741-519...@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net...
>> There's an interesting local "gun grabbing" story you might
>> want to keep
>> track of.
>>
>> It seems that on March 16th Army MSgt Christopher Grisham set
>> out on a
>> ten mile road hike with his son to earn a Boy Scout badge for
>> the son.
>>
>
> Some scenarios. Why does he need or want to carry an AR15 on a
> peaceful hike?

Why not? Is this still a free country or isn't it?

>
> In view of what has happened in the US, why wouldn't a person
> report a military man ? in uniform? carry a rifle designed to
> rapidly kill persons?

Are you sure the caller even recognized what type of weapon the
MSgt was carrying?

>
> Why wouldn't a MSGT the most senior rank of enlisted
> personnel in the US Army know that there might be in trouble
> for doing so.?

He didn't realize how paranoid some people are. Guns are part of
his standard equipment. BTW, check this page for Army ranks.
http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-illustration-3113823-us-army-enlisted-ranks.php

>
> Why wouldn't the senior officers wonder what was up with
> this person who is supposed to know about the use of arms in
> the US. After all only National Guard should be protecting
> in the US.?

The National Guard is commanded by the state's governor unless
the President activates them. Once activated, they become a part
of the regular military unit they are assigned to.

>
> Why wouldn't a police officer attempt to protect the population
> of his town/city/county?

Protect them from what? What law was being broken?

>
> I have not made up my mind about the freedom to bear arms, but
> these scenarios leave more questions.
> Anne

You need to educate yourself before joining the battle.

LZ

[Kenn Smith]

I'm not sure that your "baiting" comments are accurate. I have never
met the Sgt so don't have personal experience with him. But, I have a
CSM friend on the fort who has served with him before. According to him
maybe the only thing which would interfere with Grisham's eventual
promotion to E9 and selection for CSM school is that he doesn't like
confrontation. CSM's must frequently be confrontational. In my
friend's words, "He's a teddy bear"'. My friend thinks that he is
getting royally screwed.

If that's his nature why would he bait an officer?

There are other questions to which we don't have answers. For example,
did he have a magazine racked in the AR15? If not it was a useful as a
garden spade for killing someone. One might think that an alert officer
would have taken first notice of that.

In Texas druing various hunting seasons it isn't at all unusual to see
someone walking down a road with a firearm as they change fields or
stands. It's illegal to road shoot but it is not illegal to carry a
weapon on the road. I dont have a clue about what seasons are open now
and what aren't but what difference would it make - shotgun or long gun?

[Lone Haranguer]

I learned the correct procedure when being approached by an LEO
while you arecarrying a firearm is to place it on the ground and
step away from it. You no longer are an armed threatand the LEO
doesn't have the right to confiscate your weapon unless you are
violating some law.OTOH you may notget it back if you voluntarily
hand it over.

LZ

[Kenn Smith]

Oh, BTW Anne, we have a helluva lot of venemous snakes in Texas. He
might have been carrying as a rattler killer although my preference for
that is a 12 ga shotgun. In a pinch I'll use any old thing, however - I
have 16 ga, 20 ga and 410 as backups.

[Lone Haranguer]

> Kenn Smith wrote:
>>
>> I have seven firearms in my home, 1 handgun, one long gun and 5
>> shotguns. If I walk out into my backyard carrying one should
>> I be
>> arrested? If I go out to the sidewalk in front of my house
>> with one
>> should I be arrested?
>>
>
>

5 shotguns? Do you really need such an arsenal? How can your
neighbors sleep at night?

LZ

[Lone Haranguer]

He was walking down a country road...... I'd sue you for
infringing onmy Constitutional rights.

LZ

[Larry]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 10:38:06 -0700, Bruce S <bruce...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 5/24/2013 10:12 AM, Hunter Hampton wrote:
>> On 5/24/2013 9:51 AM, Kenn Smith wrote:
>>> I am not a rabid "gun grabber" believer but this smacks of a serious

>>> violation of Sgt Grisham's right to keep and bear arms.

>>
>> I'm not either Kenn, but I think Sgt. Grisham showed a serious lack of
>> judgement walking down the road with a scary looking gun on his chest.
>>
>> I would wonder why anyone wouldn't call the police if they saw him,
>> unless he was in uniform....even then it would seem prudent to have him
>> checked out. Surely every thrift shop in town has uniforms for sale....
>>
>> By detaining him, they could have prevented a school shooting for
>> example....
>>
>> His choice to not allow a police officer to take his weapon was his
>> second stupid mistake.... if I were a cop I would want to disarm him
>> first, then ask questions.
>>
>> His judgement that day is what got him where he is now.
>>
>> Hunter
>
>No, what got him into trouble was an arrogant cop who believed he was
>above the law. Texas has legal open carry - unless the cop had
>information that a crime had been committed, and that Sgt Grisham could
>be a suspect, he should have just minded his own business and left the
>Sgt alone. The cop was wrong.

Bruce I think you probably already knew this but there were always a
few like that in every LEO department. We called it "Wyatt Earp
syndrome".
--
Larry
Citrus County Florida

[Lone Haranguer]

At this time of year I believe javelina. feral hogs and Axis Deer
are all legal targets in Texas.

LZ
>

[Debbie]

I live in a very rural area. Open carry is perfectly legal here and I do
on occasion. We had some very scary feral dogs around for awhile and a
few other things that made me feel uncomfortable.
While the AR15 may look scary and evil, it really is no better or worse
than other firearms.
The SGT was doing nothing wrong. I would probably ask a policeman why I
had to hand over my gun and probably get myself in the same hot water.

[bill horne]

A rifle on a rural road in Texas is suspicious?

If I were walking on a rural road here with my scary gun because I
intended to show it to my neighbor, would that be suspicious? Would
you call 911?

[Hunter Hampton]

On 5/24/2013 4:31 PM, Larry wrote:
> Bruce I think you probably already knew this but there were always a
> few like that in every LEO department. We called it "Wyatt Earp
> syndrome".

So you don't think cops should be able to question anybody they get
called about carrying a gun?

Hunter

[Hunter Hampton]

On 5/24/2013 4:26 PM, Debbie wrote:

> The SGT was doing nothing wrong. I would probably ask a policeman why I
> had to hand over my gun and probably get myself in the same hot water.

He wasn't until he didn't hand the cop his gun... it could have been
handled in minutes and he could have been on his way with his rifle.....

But he chose to be an asshole.....

Hunter

[Debbie]

I guess I am missing something. Why did he have to hand over legal
property being used in a legal manner? It seems to me, and I admit to
not being privy to all that went down, that the police officer may have
been the one being an asshole.

[bill horne]

Looks to me like he's teaching his kid to stand up for his rights -
but I agree that his lesson presentation could use a little work.

[bill horne]

Hunter Hampton wrote:
> On 5/24/2013 12:11 PM, K Miller wrote:
>> I don't know the truth of what happened but I can say that if a police
>> officer requests that I surrender my weapon (scary or not) he's
>> going to get
>> it immediately and won't have to ask a second time. My attorney can
>> argue
>> the legal issues concerning the request later.
>
> Bingo......

If you were parked beside a rural road in TX, were storing berries in
your pressure cooker, and someone called you in as a suspicious
stranger, when the cops showed up, would you give them permission to
search your Airstream?

[bill horne]

Good for you.

[George Anthony]

"Hunter Hampton" <airstrea...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:519ffca1$0$28791$c3e8da3$f017...@news.astraweb.com...

Isn't that profiling? How is assuming someone (especially in Texas) who is
carrying a gun is up to no good? That's no different for pulling over a
Mexican without cause.

[Hunter Hampton]

On 5/24/2013 4:46 PM, Debbie wrote:
> I guess I am missing something. Why did he have to hand over legal
> property being used in a legal manner? It seems to me, and I admit to
> not being privy to all that went down, that the police officer may have
> been the one being an asshole.

In life, you have to be smart enough to know who has the upper hand....

Maybe the cop was an asshole, I don't know. But when a cop stops you and
asks to see your license... you show it to him.

If a cop is questioning you, of course he wants to disarm you.... many
cops have been shot in the line of duty....

So... if you're walking along with a gun strapped to your chest, and
someone has called and the cop has been dispatched to check him out, it
makes sense that until the cop knows what he's up to, the cop is smart
to disarm him.

If he had simply handed the cop the gun, explained who he was and what
he was doing the cop would have handed him the gun back and he could
have gone on his way.

Hew chose to disobey the cop which makes him the bigger asshole... and
how is that working for him?

This isn't rocket science...... the cop may have wanted to ask if he has
a hunting license.... whatever. If you have a working brain cell and a
cop stops and asks you to hand him your firearm... you're an idiot if
you don't do it. If you aren't guilty of anything, and not planning to
murder little girls and kittens nothing will happen to you.

Hunter

[bill horne]

As usual, you don't know what you're talking about - you're making up
the actual scenario. Have you watched the video of the event?

[Kenn Smith]

I don't think that any post I have read on this subject has questioned
the right of the officer to question someone carrying a gun. But there
are constitutional limits on how far the officer can go.

But the right to question and the right to seize are two entirely
different things.

My whole problem with this thing is that what was a proper stop and
question action has blown into an incident which threatens a
distinguished NCO's career.
The fact that it was first filed as a felony charge then reduced to a
misdemeanor should tell you that the police and DA aren't real sure of
their footing here. I'm fairly confident that a judge will toss the
whole thing.

To make my position clear. I'm not a member of the NRA, I don't
subscribe to the "gun grabbing" concept - false hysteria - but I do take
my and others rights as US citizens very seriously.

[nothermark]

| guess Hunter missed the peace marches and the integration marches... hard to believe. A lot of rights laws came out of those events and now folks want to give back the ground gained. Reminds me of a young fellow I knew who explained how his folks in Singapore were willing to give up various rights in return for security and tranquility.

[Hunter Hampton]

On 5/24/2013 6:12 PM, Kenn Smith wrote:
> I don't think that any post I have read on this subject has questioned
> the right of the officer to question someone carrying a gun. But there
> are constitutional limits on how far the officer can go.
>
> But the right to question and the right to seize are two entirely
> different things.

I know that when police pull someone over in their car they are worried
about that person having a gun.....

From what we know, the guy would have been smart to hand him the gun,
then answer his questions, then he probably would have been handed the
gun back and gone on his way.

Imagine being a cop, a call comes in about a man with a scary gun, in
the world we live in, and he's dispatched to check it out....

Put yourself in the cop's position....

I don't see that the cop did anything wrong..... cops have "the whip" as
we said in South Carolina.... as Kevin said, do what the cop says and
later if you're not happy do something about it.

Hunter

[Bruce S]

On 5/24/2013 4:31 PM, Larry wrote:

I've dealt with 'em. Based on the video (and news story) that is
available so far, it appears that it was a less than intelligent cop
being encouraged by an anti-gun DA. That cop would never have even been
hired in Mesa, AZ or Las Vegas.

[bill horne]

Since I'm talking in a plonkhole, will somebody please suggest to this
willfully ignorant person that she watch the video and read the TX law
which I posted earlier?

What we have here is a person who made some judgements and drew some
conclusions out of the thin air in her head, because he was carrying a
"scary" gun, and then fabricated a scenario that would support it -
but only partly.

[Bruce S]

On 5/24/2013 5:50 PM, Hunter Hampton wrote:
> On 5/24/2013 4:46 PM, Debbie wrote:
>> I guess I am missing something. Why did he have to hand over legal
>> property being used in a legal manner? It seems to me, and I admit to
>> not being privy to all that went down, that the police officer may have
>> been the one being an asshole.
>
> In life, you have to be smart enough to know who has the upper hand....
>
> Maybe the cop was an asshole,

If you had watdhe the video in the link that was posted, you would know
for a fact that the cop was an asshole.

[bill horne]

Kenn Smith wrote:
> I'm not sure that your "baiting" comments are accurate. I have never
> met the Sgt so don't have personal experience with him. But, I have a
> CSM friend on the fort who has served with him before. According to him
> maybe the only thing which would interfere with Grisham's eventual
> promotion to E9 and selection for CSM school is that he doesn't like
> confrontation. CSM's must frequently be confrontational. In my
> friend's words, "He's a teddy bear"'. My friend thinks that he is
> getting royally screwed.
>
> If that's his nature why would he bait an officer?

Did you watch the video? If it's not his nature to be confrontational,
why was he so confrontational?

> There are other questions to which we don't have answers. For example,
> did he have a magazine racked in the AR15? If not it was a useful as a
> garden spade for killing someone. One might think that an alert officer
> would have taken first notice of that.

There was a mag in the gun. Why don't you people at least get what
facts are available before you invent scenarios. What's the point in
guessing about things that are known?

Have you watched the video? If not, here it is on Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sHPLMTYxME

> In Texas druing various hunting seasons it isn't at all unusual to see
> someone walking down a road with a firearm as they change fields or
> stands. It's illegal to road shoot but it is not illegal to carry a
> weapon on the road. I dont have a clue about what seasons are open now
> and what aren't but what difference would it make - shotgun or long gun?

It doesn't matter what seasons are open. He was on a hike with his
Eagle Scout kid, and was legally carrying the rifle. And the pistol.

[Kenn Smith]

Linus asked in an earlier post how my neighbors could sleep knowing of
my arsenal. Answer. Soundly :-) But what I have is nothing compared
to what my across the street neighbor has - probably twice as many
firearms as I have with some pretty heavy duty artillery included.
His neighbors sleep soundly, also.

Firearms are simply a way of life in Texas. I got my first .22 single
shot rifle when it was as tall as I was. I did kill a couple of
rattlesnakes and a few armadillos with it. There were Mexicn cedar
choppers in our area who loved roasted armadillo so I would shoot one
for them every now and then - made for good friends. Roasted it's
really pretty good meat.

[Bob Hatch]

Hunter will jabber on about guns and will admit she knows nothing about
the subject. She can't see my posts, cuz she blocked me. Sob.

--
I do not carry a gun hoping that
I'll be able to shoot someone, anymore than
I carry a jack hoping I'll have a flat
tire.
Me.

[bill horne]

Kenn Smith wrote:
> Linus asked in an earlier post how my neighbors could sleep knowing of
> my arsenal. Answer. Soundly :-) But what I have is nothing compared
> to what my across the street neighbor has - probably twice as many
> firearms as I have with some pretty heavy duty artillery included.
> His neighbors sleep soundly, also.
>
> Firearms are simply a way of life in Texas. I got my first .22 single
> shot rifle when it was as tall as I was. I did kill a couple of
> rattlesnakes and a few armadillos with it.

Must have been a big, black, scary .22 high capacity single shot
assault rifle to get through the body armor and cause the trails to
run with blood. Damthing should probably be banned before somebody
decides to use it on an innocent possum.

There were Mexicn cedar
> choppers in our area who loved roasted armadillo so I would shoot one
> for them every now and then - made for good friends. Roasted it's
> really pretty good meat.
>

[bill horne]

I feel your pain. I'm sitting here inside a plonkhole trying to
educate a willfully ignorant airhead. What do you call a person who
does that?.... Wait! Don't answer that.

[MaxD]

The only "very rural" areas in Michigan are in the UP. Are you a
Yooper? ;-)

[MaxD]

If I were walking on a rural road in Georgia there ain't no way I would
be without a scary gun.

[Hunter Hampton]

On 5/24/2013 8:23 PM, MaxD wrote:
>> He was walking down a country road...... I'd sue you for infringing onmy
>> Constitutional rights.
>>
>> LZ
> I live in a very rural area. Open carry is perfectly legal here and I do
> on occasion. We had some very scary feral dogs around for awhile and a
> few other things that made me feel uncomfortable.
> While the AR15 may look scary and evil, it really is no better or worse
> than other firearms.
> The SGT was doing nothing wrong. I would probably ask a policeman why I
> had to hand over my gun and probably get myself in the same hot water.

Here's part of the original post.... the part that mentions the road....

"It seems that on March 16th Army MSgt Christopher Grisham set out on a
ten mile road hike with his son to earn a Boy Scout badge for the son.
He carried a side arm and an AR15, the 15 slung across his chest.

Some concerned citizen called in to the Temple, TX PD and said that
there was an armed man walking down the road. An officer went to
investigate."

I see nothing about a country road,. a rural road..... I just see road
and people making up their own scenarios...

Hunter

[Bob Hatch]

Would someone explain to this willfully ignorant Jabberwocky that there
is a video of the altercation on the web, that it has been posted by
bill horne and is available to watch and see that the event took place
on a rural road.

Also for the Jabberwocky's education, here is some additional information.

http://www.examiner.com/article/active-duty-army-sergeant-arrested-for-rudely-displaying-a-hunting-rifle

"While out hiking with my son through back country roads to help him
earn his Eagle Scout rank, I was illegally arrested and disarmed without
cause. I was thrown in jail and my lawfully owned weapons were
confiscated without receipt or notice."

Also see if she can explain how one "rudely" displays an AR-15.

She has me plonked, so someone will have to quote me.

[Bob Hatch]

I'm trying to think of something that's not insulting, but I'll just
remain silent on the issue, richard.

[bill horne]

The only folks you have to worry about are the ones with some missing
teeth - and only then when they're sitting on a stump and have their
hands behind their overall bibs.

[Bob Hatch]

On 5/24/2013 3:09 PM, Lone Haranguer wrote:
> Hank wrote:

>> On Friday, May 24, 2013 1:38:06 PM UTC-4, bruce wrote:
>>> On 5/24/2013 10:12 AM, Hunter Hampton wrote:
>>>> I'm not either Kenn, but I think Sgt. Grisham showed a serious lack of
>>>> judgement walking down the road with a scary looking gun on his chest.
>>>> I would wonder why anyone wouldn't call the police if they saw him,
>>>> unless he was in uniform....even then it would seem prudent to have him
>>>> checked out. Surely every thrift shop in town has uniforms for sale....
>>>> By detaining him, they could have prevented a school shooting for
>>>> example....
>>>> His choice to not allow a police officer to take his weapon was his
>>>> second stupid mistake.... if I were a cop I would want to disarm him
>>>> first, then ask questions.
>>>> His judgement that day is what got him where he is now.
>>>> Hunter
>>>
>>>
>>> No, what got him into trouble was an arrogant cop who believed he was
>>>
>>> above the law. Texas has legal open carry - unless the cop had
>>>
>>> information that a crime had been committed, and that Sgt Grisham could
>>>
>>> be a suspect, he should have just minded his own business and left the
>>>
>>> Sgt alone. The cop was wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>> --
>>>
>>> Bruce
>> There you go again. Were you really a cop, or are you just a wannabe?
>> By your last sentence you believe the cop was wrong. However, you also
>> stated "unless the cop had information that a crime had been
>> committed". Do you know all the facts? I am guessing you were not
>> present when this incident occurred, therefore you are passing
>> judgement before the facts are presented. You're worse than any of the
>> MSM.
>>
>> I agree with Hunter, in so much as that if I were a cop that was
>> responding to a call about a man with a gun, I would expect him to
>> give me his weapon until I investigated the incident. I could be
>> wrong, but I think any calls where there is a possibilty of a weapon
>> (guns, knives, etc,), the cops always asked if you have any weapons on
>> you and unless you are looking for trouble, you either tell tehm or
>> surrender them. Since he resisted to some extent (as reported but not
>> verified), he was lucky he wasn't shot. It appears to be another gun
>> nut trying to test the laws and took it too far.
>>
>> Unlike you, I will give the benefit of doubt to the cop. I don't have
>> a chart, report, or study, but in my little area, cops are usually
>> more right than wrong.
>>
>> Hank <~~~~waits for facts
> Pending more facts and not knowing either party I would trust the
> judgement of a MSgt before trusting that of a cop.
>
> Just my personal experience.
>
> LZ
>

Ya, but he had a "scary looking gun".

[K Miller]

Is that one of them "scenarios" you were discussing earlier?

[K Miller]

Especially if you start hearing banjos...

[K Miller]

Kenn Smith wrote:
> I'm not sure that your "baiting" comments are accurate.

Who knows who you might be speaking to but were you unable to see the video?

[Bob Hatch]

Hey! You and Max are imagining things. I've been to Eastman, and beyond.
It ain't that bad. Really. Trust me. It's "mostly" safe and normal.
Really it is.

[K Miller]

Bob Hatch wrote:
> On 5/24/2013 10:11 PM, K Miller wrote:
>> MaxD wrote:
>>> On 5/24/2013 5:39 PM, bill horne wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A rifle on a rural road in Texas is suspicious?
>>>>
>>>> If I were walking on a rural road here with my scary gun because I
>>>> intended to show it to my neighbor, would that be suspicious? Would
>>>> you call 911?
>>>>
>>>
>>> If I were walking on a rural road in Georgia there ain't no way I
>>> would be without a scary gun.
>>
>> Especially if you start hearing banjos...
>>
>>
>
> Hey! You and Max are imagining things. I've been to Eastman, and
> beyond. It ain't that bad. Really. Trust me. It's "mostly" safe and
> normal. Really it is.

I heard they got scary looking "Fallen Mawmawns"...

[Bob Hatch]

That they do. You know those awful WalMart pictures? They were all taken
at the Eastman store. :-)

[bill horne]

And was wearing a backpack - which could have concealed a pressure
cooker. Not to mention that Temple is right there at Ft Hood.

Good thing Grisham's name is not Grishammad. They probably would have
shot him on the spot. Or maybe they would have asked him if he needed
anything, and offered to transport him to the nearest mosque.

[K Miller]

Bob Hatch wrote:
> On 5/24/2013 10:16 PM, K Miller wrote:
>> Bob Hatch wrote:
>>> On 5/24/2013 10:11 PM, K Miller wrote:
>>>> MaxD wrote:
>>>>> On 5/24/2013 5:39 PM, bill horne wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A rifle on a rural road in Texas is suspicious?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I were walking on a rural road here with my scary gun because
>>>>>> I intended to show it to my neighbor, would that be suspicious?
>>>>>> Would you call 911?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If I were walking on a rural road in Georgia there ain't no way I
>>>>> would be without a scary gun.
>>>>
>>>> Especially if you start hearing banjos...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hey! You and Max are imagining things. I've been to Eastman, and
>>> beyond. It ain't that bad. Really. Trust me. It's "mostly" safe and
>>> normal. Really it is.
>>
>> I heard they got scary looking "Fallen Mawmawns"...
>>
>>
>
> That they do. You know those awful WalMart pictures? They were all
> taken at the Eastman store. :-)

That wasn't horne in that gawdawful flowered pink dress, was it? He'd be
much better off in a soft blue...

[bill horne]

No, that was a question - which has little chance of being read by the
questionee, much less answered.

[bill horne]

Bob Hatch wrote:
> On 5/24/2013 10:11 PM, K Miller wrote:
>> MaxD wrote:
>>> On 5/24/2013 5:39 PM, bill horne wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A rifle on a rural road in Texas is suspicious?
>>>>
>>>> If I were walking on a rural road here with my scary gun because I
>>>> intended to show it to my neighbor, would that be suspicious? Would
>>>> you call 911?
>>>>
>>>
>>> If I were walking on a rural road in Georgia there ain't no way I
>>> would be without a scary gun.
>>
>> Especially if you start hearing banjos...
>>
>>
>
> Hey! You and Max are imagining things. I've been to Eastman, and
> beyond. It ain't that bad. Really. Trust me. It's "mostly" safe and
> normal. Really it is.

Thank you. Keep that up and I won't have to worry about any more
liberals moving in here. Which - IMO - is a Good Thing.

[bill horne]

He ain't scary. I don't even carry a gun when I go up to talk with him.

[K Miller]

That was real question? Did the cops ask to search the whiner's kid or his
house or his neighbor's RV? I must have missed that part of the video.

[K Miller]

'Course not. You wear a flowery pink dress - but what about all the rest of
us, hmmmm?

[FMB]

"Hunter Hampton" <airstrea...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:51a00ae0$0$43940$c3e8da3$9dec...@news.astraweb.com...

> On 5/24/2013 4:46 PM, Debbie wrote:
>> I guess I am missing something. Why did he have to hand over legal
>> property being used in a legal manner? It seems to me, and I admit to
>> not being privy to all that went down, that the police officer may have
>> been the one being an asshole.
>
> In life, you have to be smart enough to know who has the upper hand....
>
> Maybe the cop was an asshole, I don't know. But when a cop stops you and
> asks to see your license... you show it to him.

<snip>
> Hunter

Most, if not all, states have laws requiring you to identify yourself upon
request of an LEO so yes, I would show him my license. I don't know if TX
has any law requiring a law abiding citizen to give up a lawfully carried
firearm. I am interested to see the dash cam account if the PD ever makes
it available.

--


FMB
(33 17 57 30)

[bill horne]

Not only that, but whoever he got his information from about Grisham
being non-confrontational does not seem particularly credible to me.
http://www.armytimes.com/article/20091208/OFFDUTY02/912080301/The-rise-fall-military-blogger

The first sentence says:
----------------------------------
Master Sgt. C.J. Grisham is not the type to shy away from a fight.
----------------------------------
Then the rest of the article goes on to support that in spades.

Chicken Hawk Grisham is not going to go gentle into that good night.

[bill horne]

Well, Flying S Monster, chicken farmer. Gimme a dambreak. That was a
question that I thought had a reasonable chance of fitting her likely
activities. She certainly can't identify with walking down a rural
road while carrying an "assault rifle" on a single-point sling

[bill horne]

Me, too. Maybe it'll show what happened at the very beginning of the
encounter. It doesn't look like Grisham got his camera going until the
business had already gone sideways.

[bill horne]

I'm not big on pink. If you caught me in a dress, it would be OD or
camo. So (hello oz), it wasn't me.

[bill horne]

Pink? Surely you're not serious? PInk does not work with my complexion
unless I use makeup - and I'm sure as hell not going up to Empire, GA
in makeup. Be like wearing perfume up into Deliverance country.

> - but what about all the rest of
> us, hmmmm?

Y'all'll have to work that out for your own selves - but you can't go
wrong with old-style camo up in Empire.

[film...@gmail.com]

On Friday, May 24, 2013 6:12:33 PM UTC-7, Kenn Smith wrote:
> I don't think that any post I have read on this subject has questioned
>
> the right of the officer to question someone carrying a gun. But there
>
> are constitutional limits on how far the officer can go.
>
>
>
> But the right to question and the right to seize are two entirely
>
> different things.
>
>
>
> My whole problem with this thing is that what was a proper stop and
>
> question action has blown into an incident which threatens a
>
> distinguished NCO's career.
>
> The fact that it was first filed as a felony charge then reduced to a
>
> misdemeanor should tell you that the police and DA aren't real sure of
>
> their footing here. I'm fairly confident that a judge will toss the
>
> whole thing.
>
>
>
> To make my position clear. I'm not a member of the NRA, I don't
>
> subscribe to the "gun grabbing" concept - false hysteria - but I do take
>
> my and others rights as US citizens very seriously.



I'd guess the Sarge started talking crazy when his superiors interviewed him over the incident? Grisham's mouth is what I suspect has pulled the rug out from under his military career? The last thing the Army wants is one of their members looking like he might have a mental problem, dogged into a civilian court with lots of media attention, ranting about his rights, and suing a local LEA!

I haven't seen the film of the initial confrontation, but if the Grisham's Commander did, and felt the same way as bill horne, the Sargie has tossed his own career in the terlit!

Captain J. Queeg

[Bob Hatch]

Just tellin it like it is.

[Will Sill]

On 5/24/13 10:39 PM, Bob Hatch wrote:

> Hunter will jabber on about guns and will admit she knows nothing about
> the subject. She can't see my posts, cuz she blocked me. Sob.

Like richard and NothingMark, Hunter will jabber on about ANYTHING,
whether or not she admits to knowing nothing. But not to worry, she
uses selective blocking.

As to the merits of the case being discussed, I just wonder: Does the
2nd Amendment only apply to meek and amiable guys out for a hike with a kid?

Will

[Hank]

On Friday, May 24, 2013 4:01:23 PM UTC-4, nothermark wrote:

>
> >I agree with Hunter, in so much as that if I were a cop that was responding to a call about a man with a gun, I would expect him to give me his weapon until I investigated the incident. I could be wrong, but I think any calls where there is a possibilty of a weapon (guns, knives, etc,), the cops always asked if you have any weapons on you and unless you are looking for trouble, you either tell tehm or surrender them. Since he resisted to some extent (as reported but not verified), he was lucky he wasn't shot. It appears to be another gun nut trying to test the laws and took it too far.
>
> >
>
> >Unlike you, I will give the benefit of doubt to the cop. I don't have a chart, report, or study, but in my little area, cops are usually more right than wrong.
>
> >
>
> >Hank <~~~~waits for facts
>
>
>

> I bet they are more wrong than you think. The system is designed to
>
> hide it from you.
>
>
>
> I'm still trying to figure out why there was a problem with him
>
> walking down the road with a gun. The most the cop should have done
>
> is ask why. I see no need to do that.
>
>
>
> The real point is why has out society gotten so paranoid about folks
>
> doing legal thing...

I would say that walking down the street with a small boy and a weapon isn't a daily normal sight in my little area, therefore it causes suspicion. I want MY cops to question anything that looks suspicious. I would also want the cop to question the guy if he were carrying a butcher knife.

Hank

[Hank]

On Friday, May 24, 2013 4:58:53 PM UTC-4, bill horne wrote:

>
> Here's much of the truth of what happened - with TX law and video.
>
> http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/04/veteran-arrested-for-legally-but-rudely-displaying-rifle/
>
> The unbroken video is here:
>
> http://watchdogwire.com/texas/2013/04/16/video-released-of-central-texas-soldiers-arrest/
>
>
>
> It looks to me he went trolling, and caught part of what he was after.
>
>
>
> I'll give the cops credit for maintaining their cool - Grisham
>
> probably wanted them to lose it. On camera.

>
>
>
> --
>
> bill
>
> Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.

Ahh, the voice of reason.

Hank

[Will Sill]

On 5/24/13 10:09 PM, bill horne wrote:

> Have you watched the video? If not, here it is on Youtube:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sHPLMTYxME

I did watch the video, and conclude that the cops should be in jail.
The Sgt already has all the trouble he should get for not being
sufficiently submissive to an outa-conrol police presence.

Will

[Lone Haranguer]

Debbie wrote:
> On 5/24/2013 7:51 PM, Hunter Hampton wrote:
>> On 5/24/2013 4:26 PM, Debbie wrote:
>>
>>> The SGT was doing nothing wrong. I would probably ask a
>>> policeman why I
>>> had to hand over my gun and probably get myself in the same
>>> hot water.
>>
>> He wasn't until he didn't hand the cop his gun... it could
>> have been
>> handled in minutes and he could have been on his way with his
>> rifle.....
>>
>> But he chose to be an asshole.....
>>
>> Hunter

> I guess I am missing something. Why did he have to hand over
> legal property being used in a legal manner? It seems to me,
> and I admit to not being privy to all that went down, that the
> police officer may have been the one being an asshole.

It seems the Temple police were involved. I'm wondering if they
have jurisdiction outside the city limits since the MSgt was
walking down a "country road"?

LZ

[Bob Hatch]

On 5/24/2013 9:51 AM, Kenn Smith wrote:
> There's an interesting local "gun grabbing" story you might want to keep
> track of.
>
> It seems that on March 16th Army MSgt Christopher Grisham set out on a
> ten mile road hike with his son to earn a Boy Scout badge for the son.
> He carried a side arm and an AR15, the 15 slung across his chest.
>
> Some concerned citizen called in to the Temple, TX PD and said that
> there was an armed man walking down the road. An officer went to
> investigate. It seems that the officer attempted to grab the AR15 from
> Sgt Grisham and met with resistance. The officer then charged Grisham
> with resisting arrest, a felony. The charge was later reduced to
> Interferint with a Police Offcer's duty, a misdemeanor. That charge is
> still waiting to be tried.
>
> As a result of the arrest and charge the Army placed a red flag, "law
> enforcement investigation" on his record. The results, thus far, are
> that his security clearance has been suspended, he lost a coveted
> instructor spot at the Military Intelligence Center of Excellence, he
> has had a general officer letter of reprimand placed in his file citing
> Article 134 of the UCMJ - the article which says that if we can't get
> you any other way we'll nail you here - and had a recommendation for the
> Meritorius Service Medal returned without action. Also, he can't take
> leave or otherwise leave the area.
>
> The Temple PD has thus far refused to release the officer's dash cam
> recording of the incident. To his credit Sgt Grisham is fighting back.
> Through his attorney he recently filed a $1,267,000 letter of demand on
> the City of Temple which demands return of his weapons, $400,000 in
> compensation for false imprisonment and intentional infliction of
> emotional distress. I'm sure that one will end up in court.
>
> I am not a rabid "gun grabber" believer but this smacks of a serious
> violation of Sgt Grisham's right to keep and bear arms.
>

Kenn, thanks for this link, here. I'm familiar with the story and have
been kind of watching it. I, like bill and a couple of others, want to
see the dash cam video from the police car. The start of the story is,
to me, more important than what MSGT Grisham's camera recorded.

If, as has been reported by Grisham, the officer walked up and told
Grisham he was going to take the gun and attempted to do so, he was
wrong, and he was responsible for the altercation. The officer could
have asked Grisham some questions, asked his son some questions, checked
ID and been on his way. Instead it "appears" to me that he decided from
the start to show Grisham who was boss, and got challenged.

I for one hope that the officer loses his job, the city loses the suit,
and the Chief of the department is replaced.

"In an interesting twist, Deborah McKeon of the Telegram reported on
Grisham�s story last month, shortly after he was arrested and wanted his
guns back, said, �Grisham was arrested March 16, five days after Grisham
urged the Temple City Council to declare that citizen rights to keep and
bear arms will not be infringed upon.� "

http://www.examiner.com/article/active-duty-army-sergeant-arrested-for-rudely-displaying-a-hunting-rifle

So "I" think that there is a possibility that once they (the police)
knew it was Grisham, there was no way out for him. He was going to be
punished. While the police had to respond to the call, they did not have
to elevate the incident, but the "Barney Fife" officer just couldn't
back down, and his Sargent didn't have the balls to drag him back from
the confrontation.

[Bob Hatch]

Here in Florence the township has annexed thousands of acres of land to
get as many housing developments on the tax rolls as possible. The
majority of the township is filled with "country roads".

[Hank]

> Me.

Why would you need the dashcam? You've already said the cop was wrong and that he and others should be fired. So much for justice. Jumping to conclusions is typical of you and your ilk.

Hank

[Lone Haranguer]

Hunter Hampton wrote:
> On 5/24/2013 4:31 PM, Larry wrote:
>> Bruce I think you probably already knew this but there were
>> always a
>> few like that in every LEO department. We called it "Wyatt Earp
>> syndrome".
>
> So you don't think cops should be able to question anybody they
> get called about carrying a gun?
>
> Hunter
Was a crime involved? If someone calls the cops because they
thought they saw a gun in your purse would you want to be
confronted on a city street and asked to hand over your purse?

Or do you think everyone carrying a gun openly should be
confronted by police and asked to hand it over? The cops would
sure be busy here in AZ where many people openly carry a
firearm......and not just in open country.
LZ

[jerryosage]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 21:20:35 -0700, Bob Hatch <bob....@ymail.com>
wrote:

>On 5/24/2013 9:02 PM, Hunter Hampton wrote:
>> On 5/24/2013 8:23 PM, MaxD wrote:
>>>> He was walking down a country road...... I'd sue you for infringing onmy
>>>> Constitutional rights.
>>>>
>>>> LZ
>>> I live in a very rural area. Open carry is perfectly legal here and I do
>>> on occasion. We had some very scary feral dogs around for awhile and a
>>> few other things that made me feel uncomfortable.
>>> While the AR15 may look scary and evil, it really is no better or worse
>>> than other firearms.

>>> The SGT was doing nothing wrong. I would probably ask a policeman why I
>>> had to hand over my gun and probably get myself in the same hot water.
>>
>>

>> Here's part of the original post.... the part that mentions the road....

>>
>> "It seems that on March 16th Army MSgt Christopher Grisham set out on a
>> ten mile road hike with his son to earn a Boy Scout badge for the son.
>> He carried a side arm and an AR15, the 15 slung across his chest.
>>
>> Some concerned citizen called in to the Temple, TX PD and said that
>> there was an armed man walking down the road. An officer went to
>> investigate."
>>

>> I see nothing about a country road,. a rural road..... I just see road
>> and people making up their own scenarios...
>>
>> Hunter
>>
>>
>
>Would someone explain to this willfully ignorant Jabberwocky that there
>is a video of the altercation on the web, that it has been posted by
>bill horne and is available to watch and see that the event took place
>on a rural road.
>
>Also for the Jabberwocky's education, here is some additional information.
>
>http://www.examiner.com/article/active-duty-army-sergeant-arrested-for-rudely-displaying-a-hunting-rifle
>
>"While out hiking with my son through back country roads to help him
>earn his Eagle Scout rank, I was illegally arrested and disarmed without
>cause. I was thrown in jail and my lawfully owned weapons were
>confiscated without receipt or notice."
>
>Also see if she can explain how one "rudely" displays an AR-15.
>
>She has me plonked, so someone will have to quote me.

Why not.

I have several weapons that make that one look harmless by comparison.
My favorite is a Ruger Mini 14. No folding stock, just a pistol grip
and a drum magazine. The sling is mounted on top so it blocks the
front sight, however the 14 hangs in perfect position for shooting
from the hip. It gets some interesting reactions when I bring it out.

Jerry O.

[Hank]

On Saturday, May 25, 2013 10:38:09 AM UTC-4, Bob Hatch wrote:

>

> http://www.examiner.com/article/active-duty-army-sergeant-arrested-for-rudely-displaying-a-hunting-rifle
>

>

> Me.

The pic of the Sgt. in your link reminds me of the sweet and innocent Trayvon Martin pics <~~~~ sarcasm. The video shows a very large out of shape man that thinks he's a lawyer and above showing respect to the police. Talk about media spins!

Hank

[MaxD]

On 5/24/2013 11:15 PM, Bob Hatch wrote:
> On 5/24/2013 10:11 PM, K Miller wrote:
>> MaxD wrote:
>>> On 5/24/2013 5:39 PM, bill horne wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A rifle on a rural road in Texas is suspicious?
>>>>
>>>> If I were walking on a rural road here with my scary gun because I
>>>> intended to show it to my neighbor, would that be suspicious? Would
>>>> you call 911?
>>>>
>>>
>>> If I were walking on a rural road in Georgia there ain't no way I
>>> would be without a scary gun.
>>
>> Especially if you start hearing banjos...
>>
>>
>
> Hey! You and Max are imagining things. I've been to Eastman, and beyond.
> It ain't that bad. Really. Trust me. It's "mostly" safe and normal.
> Really it is.
>
>

Ah, you're just trying to suck-up to bh so he'll let you use his dirt pile.

[K Miller]

Oh, sure. I don't keep an eye on you next you'll be throwing cavity
searches, DNA matching, and retinal scans into your "reasonable chance"
questions...

[Bob Hatch]

On 5/25/2013 7:49 AM, Hank wrote:
> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 10:38:09 AM UTC-4, Bob Hatch wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Kenn, thanks for this link, here. I'm familiar with the story and have
>>
>> been kind of watching it. I, like bill and a couple of others, want to
>>
>> see the dash cam video from the police car. The start of the story is,
>>
>> to me, more important than what MSGT Grisham's camera recorded.
>>
>>
>>
>> If, as has been reported by Grisham, the officer walked up and told
>>
>> Grisham he was going to take the gun and attempted to do so, he was
>>
>> wrong, and he was responsible for the altercation. The officer could
>>
>> have asked Grisham some questions, asked his son some questions, checked
>>
>> ID and been on his way. Instead it "appears" to me that he decided from
>>
>> the start to show Grisham who was boss, and got challenged.
>>
>>
>>
>> I for one hope that the officer loses his job, the city loses the suit,
>>
>> and the Chief of the department is replaced.
>>
>>
>>
>> "In an interesting twist, Deborah McKeon of the Telegram reported on
>>

>> Grisham�s story last month, shortly after he was arrested and wanted his
>>
>> guns back, said, �Grisham was arrested March 16, five days after Grisham

>>
>> urged the Temple City Council to declare that citizen rights to keep and
>>

>> bear arms will not be infringed upon.� "

>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.examiner.com/article/active-duty-army-sergeant-arrested-for-rudely-displaying-a-hunting-rifle
>>
>>
>>
>> So "I" think that there is a possibility that once they (the police)
>>
>> knew it was Grisham, there was no way out for him. He was going to be
>>
>> punished. While the police had to respond to the call, they did not have
>>
>> to elevate the incident, but the "Barney Fife" officer just couldn't
>>
>> back down, and his Sargent didn't have the balls to drag him back from
>>
>> the confrontation.
>>
>
>> Me.
>
> Why would you need the dashcam? You've already said the cop was wrong and that he and others should be fired. So much for justice. Jumping to conclusions is typical of you and your ilk.
>
> Hank
>

You really, really, really need some lessons in reading comprehension.
Really!

Try to find out the meanings of "if", "it appears", "I think", "The
start of the story".

[MaxD]

I thought his in-your-face attitude was a little offensive.