Medieval Paints
Russ Gilman-Hunt
Well met, all my good friends. I have yet another question for you. . .
What did the Irish, Vikings, Scots, Anglo-Saxons, Normans, etc use for
"paint" in the 11th- 13th centuries?
In practice, I'm looking at making a chair (so it's that great $12
Viking Chair from TI, it can still be decorated), and I would like to
paint a design on it.
Would I stain it with Berry Juice? What gives the opacity they would
have had in a paint? (Would their paints have behaved like our paints?)
Do I burn it? That would be a viking treatment, right? ;)
In actuality, I'm not looking to poison myself. To me, there's a
difference between knowing someone used arsenic and mercury in a hot dye
bath and actually doing that to my lungs. What I'm looking for is what
their "paints" looked like and how to RECREATE the look without
endangering myself or my soon-to-be little one.
Thanks for all your help,
Lord Conchobhar of Kamrun (Clan MacGuinness) W.O.A.W.!
Russ_Gil...@continue.uoregon.edu
Rick Cavasin
In article <31B2EC...@continue.uoregon.edu>, Russ Gilman-Hunt <Russ_Gil...@continue.uoregon.edu> writes:
|> Well met, all my good friends. I have yet another question for you. . .
|>
|> What did the Irish, Vikings, Scots, Anglo-Saxons, Normans, etc use for
|> "paint" in the 11th- 13th centuries?
|>
|> In practice, I'm looking at making a chair (so it's that great $12
|> Viking Chair from TI, it can still be decorated), and I would like to
|> paint a design on it.
Most of what I know is about paints used in manuscripts, and sort of
absorbed incidentally, since I've been more interested in dyes than in paints.
What a 13th century Scot might use could certainly be different from what
an 11th century Viking might.
Anyhow, a 'paint' would usually consist of water, a pigment, a binder, and
possibly, some fillers. The binder is something sticky that helps to hold
the pigment onto whatever you're painting. The pigment is the colour, in
the form of non-soluble particles.
Stains and dyes on the other hand, have the colouring principle in soluble
form. I think the distinction between a stain and a dye is that the stain
is not permanently fixed to the object, and can theoretically be washed out,
whereas the dye is fixed (usually by a mordant).
With paint, the pigment sits on the surface of the object, held there by the
binder. With stains/dyes, where the colour is soluble, it is absorbed into
the surface (where it may become insoluble). With a porous wood, and a very
finely ground pigment, it may be possible to 'colour' the wood by working the
pigment into the wood surface, without the use of a binder.
Binders used in paints: gum arabic, hide glue, fish glue, etc.
Pigments: various earth pigments (ochre, terre verte, etc.)
ground semi-precious stones (malachite, azurite, lapis, etc.)
organic pigments - eg. flower of woad, soot, etc.
organic lakes (organic dyes precipitated out of solution with
alum and carbonates - eg. madder lake)
For a piece of furniture from the area/time you're talking about, I'm not
sure what sorts of stains/paints would be appropriate. If you use the berry
juice as a stain, note that if the chair sits in the sun at all, the colour
will likely fade quite quickly (with some notable exceptions berry dyes/stains
are notoriously fugitive).
For a piece of furniture, they might have used stains that don't work as dyes,
since they would not have to worry about having to throw it in the wash.
You'd have to do some research to find out specifically which organic/inorganic
pigments/dyes/stains would have been in general use for furniture in the
time/place you are interested in. A few may be poisonous, but there should
be plenty that aren't.
Hopefully, someone else will be able to give you a better answer.
Cheers,
Rick/Balderik
william thomas powers
When did linseed oil start being used as a medium for carrying the pigment?
I would think that many of the paint pigments used for illumination
would also work on wood with a linseed oil binder----However they might
be too expensive for mere furniture. I would try the earth pigments If
I couldn't get a better lead from reading "Divers Arts" by Theophilus,
circal 1120A.D.
wilelm the smith
BBrisbane
MiLord,
The following is a letter I posted in February in response to another
gentles query. I send it now to you. Please understand that the person
this was sent too was virtually clueless and so my words took a very
didactic tone. Rick's/Balderik's post was very true and correct, and it
saves me from having to type it too! So please heed his post.
I will add one thing here, it appears to me that what you want is a
list of colors that would appear to give the appearance of those used by
the Vikings, Celts, etc . . . If that is so, I can give you such a list
or you can simply index the Books of Kells and/or Lindisfarne. The Paints
used for Manuscripts, furniture decoration, leather painting, wall
painting, etc.. are virtually the same. All that is being changed is the
binding medium, the 'glue' if you will. In the case in question, an egg
tempera was possiblly used as historically that was extensively used upon
wooden objects. Again, for types of glue see Rick's post.
If I can help in any other way, please ask.
--- Brendan
Date: 96-02-05 13:42:45 EST
From: BBrisbane
Subj: HELP FOR PERIOD PIGMENTS
To: Cyst...@amethyst.wanet.net
cc: Jad,
I am Lord Brendan Brisbane, Minister of Arts and Sciences to the
Principality of AEthelmearc in the Kingdom of the East. I would like to
give you aid in your endeavor and perhaps point you down the path of
period painting. I have followed the replies that your missive has
received and it appears that none of them answered your query. I
apologize in advance if my letter appears too terse or hard, but it is my
desire to provide you information in a succinct form. Also be aware that
I have but your original posting to base my response upon, and so I am not
aware of what You KNOW about working with Period Pigments.
Standard Disclaimer: I am not an Expert, I am simply passing on to
you what I have learned via my experiences in studying and working with
Period Pigments (PP). I would admonish you to weigh, sift, test, any
information given to you, and find out for yourself whether what was
passed on to you was the truth. That goes for my writings too! I would
also like to say that an Artist is not made by having a Degree in art and
you should not let anyones credentials be the deciding factor in your
search for knowledge. Find out for yourself.
Firstly, I was thrilled to find your posting and to see the
enthusiasm of your missive. I applaud such enthusiasm and intent.
However, your missive did give one the opinion that someone told you that
Egg Tempera was the only period form of painting, and so you dove right in
and studied just that, Egg Tempera Painting. There are many differing
forms of period painting, each of which has traits and characteristics
that makes that form suitable for using upon one type of surface, while
often making it unsuitable on other surfaces. Furthermore, Egg Tempera
painting is one of the most dificult forms of painting (second to Fresco
in my experiences), and can yield dissapointing results if one does not
adequately study the form, and experiments a little. As you have sited,
you have already had at least one dissapointing result.
MiLord, you wished to find a paint that would function more like
Gouache. I can only presume that you are at least familiar with that form
of painting. To attain a PP paint more like Gouache you should begin by
finding what precisely Gouache consists of. "The Artist's Handbook, of
Materials and Techniques" by Ralph Mayer, 5th Edition, Viking Press, ISBN
0-670-83701-6 ($30, Hbk). in chapter 7 tells us that Gouache consists
primarily of Gum Arabic and chalk. The Gum Arabic is a binding medium, a
tempering agent, a glue if you will. That causes the paint to adhere to
the surface of application. In Egg Tempera this is facilitated by the egg
yolks. The chalk is simply an additive for the purposes of yielding an
Opaque paint. If one were to remove the chalk so as to have just PP and
Gum Arabic, you will have Watercolor paints. I beleive that this is what
you are looking for. Gum Arabic is easily manipulated, dissolves in
water, but will not keep. It does produce the ease of painting you find
in using Gouaches, however, PP have varying characteristics which means
they do not all flow the same. Your Gouaches are all consistent in their
ability to flow, your PP will be determined by the amount of processing
(grinding, milling, and mulling) they receive by your hands, and the
structural make-up of the pigment substances (ie. . . ., Clays will grind
up to a fine creamy consistent powder, while semi-precious stones like
Malachite and hematite will tend to break apart into crystalline bits,
pieces, and powder.). You will find that in the processing of Lapis that
as you grind in finer and finer, it becomes lighter and lighter until its
color washes out completely. As lapis is ground, it's crystaline
structure defracts the light stiking it further and further and finally
you will have but a useless white Powder. In - "The Craftsman's Handbook,
Il Libro dell Arte" by Cennino Cennini as translated by Daniel V Thompson
Jr. Dover Publications, ISBN 0-486-20054-X (Still available for about
$6, Pbk. This was written in Period). - you will find on pages 36 to 39
that Ultramarine Blue is gained from Lapsi via a 'leaching' process, and
not by grinding. Lapis alone utilizes this technique.
Now what I'd like to address, and would admonish you to do, is on
becoming a Craftsman. Being an Artist is simply not enough, one must also
be a Craftsman. An artist, particularly one who works in PP, needs to
intimately familiar with his tools, surfaces, materials, and all of their
interacting characteristics. There is much more to making paint than just
mixing PP with a binding medium. There is the processes of grinding your
pigment substances, Mulling the paint (this process thoroughly mixes your
PP with the medium, and then there is the actual process of painting.
Painting is NOT as easy as all that! The craftsman will be aware of the
chemical properties of his paints, what paints to use with what techniques
(meaning; panel Painting, manuscript Illumination, Fresco), for PP are not
universal in regards to the surfaces and binders with which they are
mixed. Fresco work has a palette which is limmited to Earthy pigments:
yellow/red/brown clays, lampblack, terre-vert, and others. Other painting
forms have restrictions due to the interactions of the chemicals
themselves. In watercolors (using pigment with your gum arabic) the
mixture of Vermilion Red (Mercuric Sulfide) with Lead White (Lead
Crabonate) yields . . . not pink but Grey. It does not matter how or in
what quantity you mix them, you always get the same dead grey. It is
chemically something other than it had been, and you cannot readily know
what you have made. There are much worse reactions! Some of them are
deadly, while others are a cumulative poison, and you must also consider
safety precautions as you work. The fine dust produced in grinding
pigments is one of the most dangerous parts of the work. So you can see
that there is much more involved with using PP than slapping paint onto a
scroll.
Lead white and Silver leaf, or any other paint with a heavy metal content
is unsuitable for painting work that is exposed to the air. Such paints
will dull, tarnish, or blacken over time and alter the painters original
intent. It is a matter of craftsmanship to know which paints you can use
how and with what binders. The remedy for these chemical reactions lay in
several techniques; Laying a WASH if color over a DRY under painting
which allows the two colors to be seen together (this of course means
using a binding medium which encapsulates (surrounds) the paint layers
completely and keeps air from affecting them. ALL of these things the
Artist/Craftsman will know. I would Admonish you, my lord to savor that
enthusiasm, harness it, and focus it on knowing your tools and materials
before you find your wasting your time and money.
Other Books for your Contemplation: (You Should Read These!)
The Craftsman's Handbook, "Il Libro dell Arte" by Cennino Cennini as
translated by Daniel V Thompson Jr. Dover Publications, ISBN
0-486-20054-X (Still available for about $6, Pbk. This was written in
Period).
Vasari on Technique, by Georgio Vasari, Dover Publcations, ISBN
0-486-20717-X (About $10, Pbk. This was written in Period).
The Materials of the Artist, and their use in Painting, By Max Doerner,
Harcourt Brace Pub, ISBN 0-15-657716-X (About $14, Pbk).
The Painter's Handbook, by Mark David Gottsegen, Watson Guptill Pub, ISBN
0-8230-3003-2. (About $30, Pbk --- Great Book!!).
Artist's Pigments, a handbook of their History & Charcteristics, Volume-1,
Robert L. Feller Editor. Nat'l Gallery of Art Pub, ISBN 0-89468-068-2 (
$17, Pbk. Very Tough to find!! You can still get them through Kremer
Pigments in NY. Epitome of Books on the subject of specific chemical,
analytical, and historical pigment information).
Artist's Pigments, a handbook of their History & Charcteristics, Volume-2,
Ashok Roy Editor. Nat'l Gallery of Art Pub, ISBN 0-89468-189-9 ( $35,
Hbk. Very Tough to find!! You can still get them through Kremer Pigments
in NY. Epitome of Books Vol 2 in serires (Vol 3 not released yet) on the
subject of specific chemical, analytical, and historical pigment
information).
I hope you can chew on this for awhile. There is plenty more where
that came from! If your coming to Estrella Wars look me up at 'Brendan's
Banners'
-------------- Brendan
'Conlige suspectos semper habitos'
Heather Rose Jones
Russ Gilman-Hunt (Russ_Gil...@continue.uoregon.edu) wrote:
: Well met, all my good friends. I have yet another question for you. . .
: What did the Irish, Vikings, Scots, Anglo-Saxons, Normans, etc use for
: "paint" in the 11th- 13th centuries?
: In practice, I'm looking at making a chair (so it's that great $12
: Viking Chair from TI, it can still be decorated), and I would like to
: paint a design on it.
Well, I'm not sure of any less-blunt way to say it, but ... if you want
to use a paint that is equivalent in period and authenticity to the
design of the chair, just go down to the hardware store and pick up a can
of latex-base enamel.
On the other hand, researching period paints is a wonderful, noble thing,
no matter what you're putting them on, so don't let me discourage you on
that account. I just wish that TI had put a disclaimer on that chair
design.
Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn
DAVID RAZLER
RC>You'd have to do some research to find out specifically which
RC>organic/inorganic pigments/dyes/stains would have been in general use
RC>for furniture in the time/place you are interested in. A few may be
RC>poisonous, but there should be plenty that aren't.
RC>Hopefully, someone else will be able to give you a better answer.
RC>Cheers,
RC>Rick/Balderik
RC>
A good many period ingredients for paints and other colors (dyes,
stains, glazes, whatever) are VERY toxic. BUT the paint or dye isn't
except if you chew your furniture or fabric <or have kids who might>.
For the most part, it is the artist who is in danger, not the user.
For instance: If you want to make good vermilion sealing wax, you
will want to work outside and stay upwind, because vermilion is mercury
ore, and when you heat the stuff, it gives off mercury vapor. You might
even want to put the seal on a document outside.
But when you've got the seal on the document, the hazard is entombed.
Safe.
Paris green is a great paint pigment, wood preservative *and* <I
believe, but have no positive reference, period> poison <major
components are copper and arsenic.> OK, unless you cover it with a good
varnish, you wouldn't want to sit on a chair painted with the stuff. Use
the varnish and so what?
Period glazes and even glazes used well into the 20th Century
*are* a problem, especially if you use the period glazed stuff every day
- but food-safe substitutes exist. I don't know if I'd eat off *real*
Tudor greenware, but the Black Rose Creations [yes, it's a shameless
plug] feast gear I have looks like the real thing and won't poison me
even if I use it every day for acid-rich foods. <trivia: US Depression-
era orange and yellow Fiesta Ware stoneware was glazed with Uranium-rich
salts so rich that some pieces legally qualify as radiation hazards just
sitting on a shelf. The most dangerous radiation hazard at your average
SCA event are gas-lantern mantles, effectively a mesh of thorium.>
And a lot of craft books are so damned dangerous they should
almost be banned. I have one on leaded glass technique that says that
when you're using hydrofluoric acid, (etches glass, probably one of the
worst things you can pour on yourself because, unless properly
neutralized, it causes chemical burns that keep on burning just this
side of forever,) you should use bare hands for better control over the
etching process. For real. There *are* several books and even a few
government publications on the dangers to artists and crafts-workers
from period and current materials <like lead oxide white oil paint>.
I don't know what's period color for period gear. But with a
little care, even a genuine 100% authentic reproduction can be made and
used safely.
A,T/dmr
Diana Parker
>In article <31B2EC...@continue.uoregon.edu>, Russ Gilman-Hunt <Russ_Gil...@continue.uoregon.edu> writes:
>|> What did the Irish, Vikings, Scots, Anglo-Saxons, Normans, etc use for
>|> "paint" in the 11th- 13th centuries?
>Binders used in paints: gum arabic, hide glue, fish glue, etc.
>Pigments: various earth pigments (ochre, terre verte, etc.)
> ground semi-precious stones (malachite, azurite, lapis, etc.)
> organic pigments - eg. flower of woad, soot, etc.
> organic lakes (organic dyes precipitated out of solution with
> alum and carbonates - eg. madder lake)
Anybody have any thoughts on milk paint?? Unfortunately I can't remember
the ingredients right now.
cheers
Tabitha
--
Diana Parker par...@mcmaster.ca (905) 525-9140 (x24282)
CUC - 201 Security Services McMaster University
Notice --- Due to ongoing cutbacks, the light at the end of the tunnel
has been turned off until further notice.
David Corliss
Greetings!
DAVID RAZLER wrote:
> a lot of craft books are so damned dangerous they should
> almost be banned. I have one on leaded glass technique that says that
> when you're using hydrofluoric acid, (etches glass, probably one of the
> worst things you can pour on yourself because, unless properly
> neutralized, it causes chemical burns that keep on burning just this
> side of forever,) you should use bare hands for better control over the
> etching process. For real.
FYI: Hydrofluoric Acid perfectly fits the above description, being one of the few
acids that readily attack organic materials. But the neatest thing about this stuff is
that it is a _local_ _anesthetic_!!! You can actually not notice you have third degree
burns until it turns black and seeps blood. I have seen this happen - the family
business uses the stuff regularly to remove paint form masonry. This is not stuff the
average untrained and underequipped person should consider using.
David Corliss
Rick Cavasin
In article <4p69ji$r...@mcmail.CIS.McMaster.CA>, par...@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA (Diana Parker) writes:
|>
|> Anybody have any thoughts on milk paint?? Unfortunately I can't remember
|> the ingredients right now.
|>
I've mostly been researching dyes for my work on skins, but I would think
that a milk paint is using the casein in the milk as a binder (since you
can make glue using milk casein).
Since they used casein glue in period, perhaps they used milk paint as well,
but I don't know for sure, as this is beyond the scope of what little
research I've done.
You did ask for thoughts as opposed to documented conclusions, so there ;)
Cheers, Rick/Balderik (And in *those* days, people would paint on animal
skins...it being the style at the time)
MrCSeverne
In article <8C1E575.14E3...@compudata.com>,
david....@compudata.com (DAVID RAZLER) writes:
>A good many period ingredients for paints and other colors (dyes,
>stains, glazes, whatever) are VERY toxic. BUT the paint or dye isn't
>except if you chew your furniture or fabric <or have kids who might>.
>For the most part, it is the artist who is in danger, not the user.
Just another caveat; be cautious of what you use for holding, dipping out,
stirring, or cooking your pigments, solvents, etc... while it may seem a
little over-the-top to have an entire set of dishes spoons and pans for
the sole use of cooking up and mixing paints in them, it avoids the
possibility of getting mercury, lead, arsenic, (or any of the other things
we find ourselves working with) onto surfaces which will later be used for
food. In many SCA households, the cooking and mixing portions of artwork
and artisanry are often accomplished in the same kitchen as the cooking,
and it is all too easy to grab a handy wooden spoon to stir your black
oil! .........................Colin
MrCSeverne
In article <4p69ji$r...@mcmail.CIS.McMaster.CA>,
par...@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA (Diana Parker) writes:
>Anybody have any thoughts on milk paint?? Unfortunately I can't remember
>the ingredients right now.
Just a thought... one of the major decorative paint companies (I think
it's Tulip) has just put out a line of milk-based paints... for all that
they are aimed at the decorative paint market, they should have the same
qualities of permanence and mellow tones as the traditional version. (I
was working for Liquitex at an art supply show, and they were in the next
booth; I haven't gotten to use the paints, just seen samples.)
Yours in
service...................................................................
.........................Colin
Kate was here
David Razler wrote:
"For instance: If you want to make good vermilion sealing wax, you
will want to work outside and stay upwind, because vermilion is mercury
ore, and when you heat the stuff, it gives off mercury vapor. You might
even want to put the seal on a document outside."
You have recipe for period sealing wax? Gimme gimme gimme pl-leeeeeeeeze!
Pretty please with sugar on top! (A ref would be spiff!) Of make me a happy
woman! I'm easy: just send me a sealing wax recipe that works! (Please
note, good gentles, I have admitted that I am easy, but I'm sure as hell
not cheap ;-)
Twcs, medieval material science junkie
BBrisbane
Milady Kate, The following is an address of a gentle who keeps files of
many many articles that get posted on the Rialto. If you write to him for
his file on 'Sealing Wax' he will gladly send it to you. I have it, but
my computer is studid and slow (1 meg) so it would be easier for you to
contact him. Additionally, that particular file is very large, and he is
better equipped to send it. Good Luck ---- Brendan
'Conlige suspectos semper habitos'
Mark S. Harris
Greetings from Stefan li Rous,
In article <4pambj$7...@mark.ucdavis.edu>, ez01...@ucdavis.edu wrote:
> You have recipe for period sealing wax? Gimme gimme gimme pl-leeeeeeeeze!
> Pretty please with sugar on top! (A ref would be spiff!) Of make me a happy
> woman! I'm easy: just send me a sealing wax recipe that works! (Please
> note, good gentles, I have admitted that I am easy, but I'm sure as hell
> not cheap ;-)
> Twcs, medieval material science junkie
Sealing wax has come up here on the Rialto several times in the past. I
have saved some of the messages in this file:
sealing-wax-msg (45K) 9/ 7/95 Sealing wax sources, how to make and use.
And yes, there are several different period sealing wax recipes in there.
For those slightly less adventurous, there are also directions on using
various types available from modern sources and some supplier addresses.
This file is available in the SCRIBAL ARTS section of my SCA Rialto Files at:
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/rialto/rialto.html
This file or my complete filelist is also available from me by email.
Stefan li Rous
--
Stefan li Rous Mark S. Harris
Barony of Bryn Gwlad Austin, TX
Ansteorra ma...@risc.sps.mot.com
Mark S. Harris
Greetings unto Brendan,
In article <4pd3um$a...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, bbri...@aol.com
(BBrisbane) wrote:
Thank you very much for pointing the lady in my direction. I would certainly
be glad to send her my file. (see other message posted on this thread before
I read this one :-) ).
HOWEVER, my email address is: ma...@risc.sps.mot.com.
Without the 'h' I don't think it will get through to me. Sigh. That is
one advantage to the U.S. postal service. They can often deliver misspelled
mail.
Stefan li Rous
>
> 'Conlige suspectos semper habitos'
sarah davitt
: RC>You'd have to do some research to find out specifically which
: RC>organic/inorganic pigments/dyes/stains would have been in general use
: RC>for furniture in the time/place you are interested in. A few may be
: RC>poisonous, but there should be plenty that aren't.
One good thing to do is to checck with your local university(they often
have papers dealing with hazardous things, as well as several books,
and seminars on how to avoid the dangers of pigments, paints, hazardous
glazes etc... the only problem being is that sometimes they are a bit
over zealous about the handleing of things.. but better safer than
sorrier)
Or the place where you buy you pigments.. because if it is
hazardous and does not have an ingredient lable/usage sheet..
the manufacturer could be in for a wee bit of trouble.
Be well, and don't lick the paintings!
Celine Grandjean
Kate was here
I have just spent a very enjoyable too-many-hours
(finally!) poking about:
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/rialto/rialto.html
which are web pages containing material archived
from the rialto by Mark Harris (aka Stefan li Rous),
on SCA-related topics and SCA-related crafts.
All I can say is: wow, really wow, totally wow!
Check it out: it's worth it.
ttfn, Twcs