lorica segmentata

[synthi...@yahoo.com]

I might be making some theatrical armour soon, and folks who let me
use their libraries a few decades ago haven't found the stuff on Roman
armour I want.

Can anyone suggest online resources? Did that archeological exploded
diagram of the authentic Roman Lorica Segmentata make it to the web?

Nils K. Hammer

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <b0497141-d011-4fdb...@l1g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,

Well, this looks somewhat like what you're describing:

http://www.legionxxiv.org/corbridgbenlrg/

And so does this:

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/lorica.html

Those are the first things I found by selecting "Images" on
Google and then typing "lorica segmentata." There are probably
lots more.

--
Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West Vallejo, California
PRO DEO ET REGE djheydt at gmail dot com

[Mike Andrews]

Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in <Ly8Lq...@kithrup.com>:

> In article <b0497141-d011-4fdb...@l1g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
> <synthi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>I might be making some theatrical armour soon, and folks who let me
>>use their libraries a few decades ago haven't found the stuff on Roman
>>armour I want.
>>
>>Can anyone suggest online resources? Did that archeological exploded
>>diagram of the authentic Roman Lorica Segmentata make it to the web?
>
> Well, this looks somewhat like what you're describing:
>
> http://www.legionxxiv.org/corbridgbenlrg/
>
> And so does this:
>
> http://www.larp.com/legioxx/lorica.html
>
> Those are the first things I found by selecting "Images" on
> Google and then typing "lorica segmentata." There are probably
> lots more.

You might be able to get this by interlibrary loan, and I think it would
prove useful:

Thordeman, Bengt -- Armour from the Battle of Visby I-II (in collaboration
with Paul Nörlund and Bo E. Ingelmark), 1939-40

--
Mike Andrews / Michael Fenwick Barony of Namron, Ansteorra
mi...@mikea.ath.cx / Amateur Extra radio operator W5EGO
Tired old music Laurel; Chirurgeon; SCAdian since AS XI
Listowner, SCA-Laurels

[Ralph E Lindberg]

In article <8340v8-...@mikea.ath.cx>,

Mike Andrews <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:

> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in <Ly8Lq...@kithrup.com>:
>
> > In article
> > <b0497141-d011-4fdb...@l1g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
> > <synthi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>I might be making some theatrical armour soon, and folks who let me
> >>use their libraries a few decades ago haven't found the stuff on Roman
> >>armour I want.
> >>
> >>Can anyone suggest online resources? Did that archeological exploded
> >>diagram of the authentic Roman Lorica Segmentata make it to the web?
> >
> > Well, this looks somewhat like what you're describing:
> >
> > http://www.legionxxiv.org/corbridgbenlrg/
> >
> > And so does this:
> >
> > http://www.larp.com/legioxx/lorica.html
> >
> > Those are the first things I found by selecting "Images" on
> > Google and then typing "lorica segmentata." There are probably
> > lots more.
>
> You might be able to get this by interlibrary loan, and I think it would
> prove useful:
>
> Thordeman, Bengt -- Armour from the Battle of Visby I-II (in collaboration
> with Paul Nörlund and Bo E. Ingelmark), 1939-40

While a good source, the Visby armor does not resemble any Roman Lorica
I have ever seen (I've made both a suit of one of the Visby patterns and
a fairly conventional Lorica)

Ralg
AnTir

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv

[David Friedman]

In article <8340v8-...@mikea.ath.cx>,
Mike Andrews <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:

> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in <Ly8Lq...@kithrup.com>:
>
> > In article
> > <b0497141-d011-4fdb...@l1g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
> > <synthi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>I might be making some theatrical armour soon, and folks who let me
> >>use their libraries a few decades ago haven't found the stuff on Roman
> >>armour I want.
> >>
> >>Can anyone suggest online resources? Did that archeological exploded
> >>diagram of the authentic Roman Lorica Segmentata make it to the web?
> >
> > Well, this looks somewhat like what you're describing:
> >
> > http://www.legionxxiv.org/corbridgbenlrg/
> >
> > And so does this:
> >
> > http://www.larp.com/legioxx/lorica.html
> >
> > Those are the first things I found by selecting "Images" on
> > Google and then typing "lorica segmentata." There are probably
> > lots more.
>
> You might be able to get this by interlibrary loan, and I think it would
> prove useful:
>
> Thordeman, Bengt -- Armour from the Battle of Visby I-II (in collaboration
> with Paul Nörlund and Bo E. Ingelmark), 1939-40

Does it have a lorica segmentata? Visby is long post-roman.

--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
_Salamander_: http://tinyurl.com/6957y7e
_How to Milk an Almond,..._ http://tinyurl.com/63xg8gx

[Mike Andrews]

David Friedman <dd...@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote in <ddfr-8F9EA0.0...@news.giganews.com>:

> In article <8340v8-...@mikea.ath.cx>,
> Mike Andrews <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
>
>> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in <Ly8Lq...@kithrup.com>:
>>
>> > In article
>> > <b0497141-d011-4fdb...@l1g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
>> > <synthi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>I might be making some theatrical armour soon, and folks who let me
>> >>use their libraries a few decades ago haven't found the stuff on Roman
>> >>armour I want.
>> >>
>> >>Can anyone suggest online resources? Did that archeological exploded
>> >>diagram of the authentic Roman Lorica Segmentata make it to the web?
>> >
>> > Well, this looks somewhat like what you're describing:
>> >
>> > http://www.legionxxiv.org/corbridgbenlrg/
>> >
>> > And so does this:
>> >
>> > http://www.larp.com/legioxx/lorica.html
>> >
>> > Those are the first things I found by selecting "Images" on
>> > Google and then typing "lorica segmentata." There are probably
>> > lots more.
>>
>> You might be able to get this by interlibrary loan, and I think it would
>> prove useful:
>>
>> Thordeman, Bengt -- Armour from the Battle of Visby I-II (in collaboration

>> with Paul N?rlund and Bo E. Ingelmark), 1939-40

>
> Does it have a lorica segmentata? Visby is long post-roman.

A long-ago casual perusal of the book at a bookstore in Visby showed
something that to my untrained eye looked rather like a lorica segmentata.
Some of the armor from the Visby mass graves in displays in Visby and
Stockholm also looked rather like a lorica segmentata.

I grant that I'm a musician, not a fighter, and so not versed in the fine
points, but thought it was worth mentioning.

--
Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not
giving the kiss the attention it deserves.
-- Albert Einstein.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <c6i0v8-...@mikea.ath.cx>,

It's not inconceivable that someone who died at Visby could have
had an old, old lorica handed down from his great-great- (et
cetera) grandfather who took it off a Roman who no longer needed
it. From the fifth century to the fourteenth is quite a stretch.
I don't call it *likely.*

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California

djheydt at gmail dot com

Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

[synthi...@yahoo.com]

Thanks folks, that Connolly drawing of the "Corbridge" find is exactly
the one I was remembering from years ago, that I failed to find
rummaging through the shelves. This particular opera I want to make
them for is Mozart, "La Clemenza di Tito", who are a bunch of Romans.
Evidently the opera world has a lot they could learn from actual
history. Now we'll see if I can find a huge pile of free hard material
to recycle into costumes.

Now, for SCA purposes, if anyone wants to make this for themselves,
I'd like to point out that we found (a zillion years ago when I was
the go-to guy for armour advice in my neighborhood, which no one will
remember) you want your layers to NOT overlap the way in the picture.
These overlap like roof shingles, keeping rain out, which seems
logical. When you bend over, however, they tend to bind up and limit
motion. I'm pretty sure that if you overlap them the other way, the
layers will fall away from you during bending, and provide more
freedom of motion, even if more raindrops will get in on you, which
doesn't matter here anyway.

Also, in my version the fastening is speed lace; On every other lame
going down the front on each side, there is a large flat button. At
the top of each side is a shoelace hanging down. Put the garment on
and you can run the laces simultaneously back and forth catching the
buttons, then tie it at the bottom; takes only seconds.

The hinges on the shoulder pieces seem completely unneeded, maybe for
tight fitting steel it helps. For the opera I'd like to use the hinges
as front fasteners. I saw one in a history book that had cotter pins
with large round loops holding each front fastener hing closed. They
all had one lace holding them tightly, tied at the bottom. It would be
dramatic if Sesto is thinking of suicide, to rip the armour open with
one sharp jerk of the cord. That's also nice if you are afraid of
falling in the ocean, you can take the armour off in about 7 seconds.

Nils K. Hammer

[David Friedman]

In article
<95ebddfb-3300-4873...@f12g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>,

synthi...@yahoo.com wrote:

> Thanks folks, that Connolly drawing of the "Corbridge" find is exactly
> the one I was remembering from years ago, that I failed to find
> rummaging through the shelves. This particular opera I want to make
> them for is Mozart, "La Clemenza di Tito", who are a bunch of Romans.
> Evidently the opera world has a lot they could learn from actual
> history. Now we'll see if I can find a huge pile of free hard material
> to recycle into costumes.

One question is whether your costuming should be based on real Roman
armor, or one what the people who originally performed the opera
imagined Roman armor to be like.

> Now, for SCA purposes, if anyone wants to make this for themselves,
> I'd like to point out that we found (a zillion years ago when I was
> the go-to guy for armour advice in my neighborhood, which no one will
> remember) you want your layers to NOT overlap the way in the picture.
> These overlap like roof shingles, keeping rain out, which seems
> logical. When you bend over, however, they tend to bind up and limit
> motion. I'm pretty sure that if you overlap them the other way, the
> layers will fall away from you during bending, and provide more
> freedom of motion, even if more raindrops will get in on you, which
> doesn't matter here anyway.

I can't speak to a lorica, but the usual pattern is that scale armor
overlaps down, lamellar overlaps up. I don't know the reason.

...

[Russell]

Possibly related to scale usually being rivetted at the top edge (roof
shingle fashion) with one way up - overlapping downwards - while
lamellar was laced at the top and sides, allowing it to sit without
gapping either way up.

Just a frivolous thought: If you were a horse-mounted warrior facing
many upward attacks from pedestrians would an upward overlapping style
offer better protection? Probably falls down for horseman vs
horseman....

[Russell]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:52:18 +0800, Russell <rm...@iinet.net.au>
wrote:

PS Nice to see the group flicker back into life again!

[David Friedman]

In article <e0j1i7lcv9lgihd2h...@4ax.com>,

Russell <rm...@iinet.net.au> wrote:

> >I can't speak to a lorica, but the usual pattern is that scale armor
> >overlaps down, lamellar overlaps up. I don't know the reason.
> >
> >...
>
> Possibly related to scale usually being rivetted at the top edge (roof
> shingle fashion) with one way up - overlapping downwards - while
> lamellar was laced at the top and sides, allowing it to sit without
> gapping either way up.

You could easily enough do scale with one attachment at the bottom, one
a little ways up from that, holding it in place without the assistance
of gravity. And lamellar could lace at the bottom and sides, in which
case the side lacing, being part way up, would serve the same function.

> Just a frivolous thought: If you were a horse-mounted warrior facing
> many upward attacks from pedestrians would an upward overlapping style
> offer better protection? Probably falls down for horseman vs
> horseman....

I've seen that argument, but I'm not sure how plausible it is.