This is a work of ART!
Darren L. Shields
japanese. What we call pornography they call art. The morals and values vary from one country to another and to be fair,
can we in good conscience apply our morals on totally different group of people? I don't think so, even less so when trying
to do so to the Japanese culture. I think the key in this case is if you don't like it, don't look. I don't mean to say
overlook an obvious injustice but don't go getting you nose bent out of joint either. Remember that the all mighty American
moral standard(JOKE!) should be left behind here on the net due to the diversity of users. Nobody is, or should be out to
offend anyone. Replies and opinions are welcome. Just remember, opinions are and should only apply to the originator.
Darren
Ill...@slip.net
Darren L. Shields
Richard Linsley Hood
<Ill...@slip.net> writes
[Reformated to fit in 80 columns]
I rather think you will find that what we call child pornography, they
call child pornography. I assume that the site you are describing is the
'seductively' posed 13 year old japanese child (if would help if you
followed up to the thread rather than starting your own). There is a
distinction between pornography and art, though what we describe as one
in one culture may indeed be described differently in another. Within
any one culture even, these standards will differ over time.
I have seen highly errotic art, some of it very good. I have also seen
pornography. Some people will draw the line that separates them
differently to others and that is to be expected. I suggested that
advertising this commercial site was off topic for this group. I stand
by that assesment.
P.S. I am not American and have what might best be described as a set of
mid european moral views and attitudes. These are undoubtably less
'liberal' than some people's here and probably more 'liberal' than
others.
--
Richard Linsley Hood | Poole, Dorset UK | email: rich...@dakal.demon.co.uk
"Programming is mirroring the world, inside a computer" Larry O'Brien 1991
ericu
> I have visited the web site and I have also studied Japanese. The
average american just cannot appreciate the are of the
> japanese. What we call pornography they call art. The morals and
values vary from one country to another and to be fair,
> can we in good conscience apply our morals on totally different group of
people? I don't think so, even less so when trying
> to do so to the Japanese culture. I think the key in this case is if
you don't like it, don't look. I don't mean to say
> overlook an obvious injustice but don't go getting you nose bent out of
joint either. Remember that the all mighty American
> moral standard(JOKE!) should be left behind here on the net due to the
diversity of users. Nobody is, or should be out to
> offend anyone. Replies and opinions are welcome. Just remember,
opinions are and should only apply to the originator.
>
> Darren
> Ill...@slip.net
I don't want to be the arbiter of what is and isn't art, but here is my
view. While I would tend to agree that the pictures on the site are not
"particularly" tailored to the pedo tastes (that is - overtly
sensual/sexual in nature), calling the photography there "art" is to be
very generous, IMNSHO. Also, the quality of the scanning is rather low,
compared to what a talented operator is able to produce.
I'd say they are more like sophisticated snapshots rather than art that
will stand the test of time and garner cricial acclaim. To *my* eye, very
little thought was put into pose or art direction at the time of shooting.
Does this make them *kiddie-porn*?
I don't think so, but they do seem rather close to the line of
exploitation rather than innocent family pictures or documentary display
of record, given the hype that the posting and the site set forth. I don't
think that a knowledegable collector of erotic art who is also
respectfully concerned with the pedo issue would bother to take up space
on his/her drive for the scans, or on his/her coffee table with the
associated publication, either.
OB Nude:
These pictures don't seem to be a celebration of the nudist/naturalist
experience, either. Nothing there to indicate that they were taken at a CO
beach or facility.
Not worth the time to look at the site, really.
Ragards,
ericu
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It is impolite to talk with your mouth full -
It should be impolite to talk with your brain empty"
- Kai Krause -
er...@earth.execpc.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Stoner
: wrote:
: > I have visited the web site and I have also studied Japanese. The
: average american just cannot appreciate the are of the
: > japanese. What we call pornography they call art. The morals and
: values vary from one country to another and to be fair,
: > can we in good conscience apply our morals on totally different group of
: people? I don't think so, even less so when trying
: > ...
I've visited the Web site and I have studied Zen art a bit, though
I am certainly not an expert. The picture I found there does not
fit my idea of what is considered art in Japan. For my own taste
it is badly composed. Even considered as pornography it is
uninteresting; the foliage in the background is more interesting
than the model.
-David
Matt Schneider
>
>I have visited the web site and I have also studied Japanese. The average
american just cannot appreciate the are of the
>japanese. What we call pornography they call art. The morals and values
vary from one country to another and to be fair,
>can we in good conscience apply our morals on totally different group of
people? I don't think so, even less so when trying
don't like it, don't look. I don't mean to say
I had the chance to visit Japan last year (exactly 1 year ago!), these are my
impressions about japanese art or pornography:
Magazines with playboy style depictions of japanese women are readily
available in any place magazines are sold, in fact they put them up front.
Many of the pictures seem to favor younger looking girls, in fact girls in (or
partially in) high school uniforms seems to be a really big thing there. One
of the magazines was called "Night Walker" and it seemed to be a catalog of
strip joints or something, with pictures of the girls that worked there. Not
reading japanese I couldn't really tell for sure.
I also visited the Photography section in one of the biggest bookstores in
Shinjuku (part of Tokyo). The photography section was mostly books of nude
women, probably half of them were originated in Japan but others were from
Sweden and such. There might have been a few books with classic photography
in them like Ansel Adams, but these took up only maybe 10% of the books in
that section.
Being interesed in nude photography myself, I did buy one book that had
samples of the work of many Japanese photographers, to get an overall
perspective of their take on this subject. Most of the pictures are glamour
type photos, such as in playboy. A few of them were a little more creative,
but most weren't.
I felt kind of wierd buying the book, the cashier was this cute little
Japanese girl, chattering away at me in Japanese, took my money, wrapped the
book up in a little brown bag, and taped it (any book you buy gets wrapped up
neatly). I could have been buying a book on gardening, it didn't matter to
her.
Overall, it seems to me that this so-called "art" leans toward the
exploitation of women. The japanese view of sexuality seems kind of perverted
if you ask me, it's like sex is repressed so all these wierd sort of fetishes
pop up. You can buy a schoolgirl's panties (worn) including a picture of her,
from a vending machine, vacuum packed in plastic. Hmm...
Oh yeah and public nudism, like mixed bathing in baths or springs, is all but
dead over there. I think we have missionaries to thank for that or something.
Oh well. I'll stop now before I get too depressed.
Peter Milroy u
: In article <4fe38k$i...@freeppp.com>, Ill...@slip.net says...
: >
: >I have visited the web site and I have also studied Japanese. The average
: american just cannot appreciate the are of the
: >japanese. What we call pornography they call art. The morals and values
: vary from one country to another and to be fair,
: >can we in good conscience apply our morals on totally different group of
: people? I don't think so, even less so when trying
: >to do so to the Japanese culture. I think the key in this case is if you
: Overall, it seems to me that this so-called "art" leans toward the
: exploitation of women. The japanese view of sexuality seems kind of perverted
: if you ask me, it's like sex is repressed so all these wierd sort of fetishes
: pop up. You can buy a schoolgirl's panties (worn) including a picture of her,
: from a vending machine, vacuum packed in plastic. Hmm...
:
My exposure to the Japanese approach to sexuality is one of "Golf"
vacations. It seems that the Japanese airports have luggage storage in
the Departure lounge, designed for Japanese men who have told their wives
they were going on a golf vacation for the weekend. They store their
clubs, board a plane for Bangkok, and buy a prostitute for the weekend.
How typical of the Japanese culture to leave things unmentioned that they
are embarrased of (or maybe they aren't embarresed?) But I would never
judge anyone else....
Christine
pornography has a good guideline, which I think is useful in thinking
about this case. Just proving that there are nude photos is not
enough. You have to prove lascivious intent.
Since an advertisement for this photo collection was posted on alt.sex,
this proves lascivious intent. Granted, Massachusetts law is not
international law, but I think this approach on the situation is a good
one.
Christine