Voyeur's Vacation? Coincidence?
Kent Hooker
material previously posted on rec.nude.
Greetings, fellow rec.nude readers. I have run across an interesting
set of posts that I thought might be of interest to this group. Two
are recent posts from Mr. Starr promoting his travel company's tour to
Cap D'Agde. The third was a post to the newsgroup alt.sex.voyeurism
which was brought to my attention from a user who knows my
naturist proclivities as something that might be of interest to me. I
have included the three posts in pretty much their entirety, including
header and date information. I leave you to draw your own conclusions
based on what's presented here.
Below find 3 posts - the first two by Starr, one claiming no gawkers, the
second proclaiming the number of his travel agency and price to book the
Cap D'Agde trip, and the third, a post from a person who is promoting a
trip aimed at voyeurs, coincidently at the same price and phone number
as Mr. Starr's.
-----------------------3 posts follow---------------------------------
From: MICHAELSTARR <michae...@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: Club Orient, St Martin.
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 23:32:26 -0500
Organization: Delphi (in...@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <JJODpGq.mi...@delphi.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1b.delphi.com
Interesting reply. They DO charge a nominal amount for pool admissions
and chairs in Cap D'Agde, but at Club Orient they beat you over the head
for EVERYTHING! The price of food is horrendous! I paid nearly ten
dollars for a bowl of chili, and then had to wait for an hour for it to
be prepared in the lone Club Orient restaurant. In Cap D'Agde, food can
be as inexpensive(or expensive) as YOU want to make it. There are a few
expensive restaurants, many more reasonable ones, several EXCELLENT take-
outs(RAPHAEL'S is my favorite..love that veal!), and a number of regular
supermarkets for those who wish to prepare their own meals. How can you
complain about an overnight flight when it takes you to Paradise? I have
taken groups to Cap D'Agde at discount prices for several years, and ALL,
repeat, ALL my clients have found it a wonderful experience. Club Orient
is expensive and disappointing, Cap D'Agde is what a nude resort SHOULD
be. The ONLY problem with Cap D'Agde is that the season is short, and
that I only run one discount group trip a year. This year's trip, August
11-26, is completely sold out, as is the entire resort. Next year's trip
will be August 9-24, and I anticipate another sellout. There are 20,000
people in "Le Cap" during the week, 65,000 on the weekends. Why are these
people there if it has problems?
One problem it DOESN'T have is gawkers;
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
the barriers take care of that. You've got to pay an entrance fee to
gain access to Cap D'Agde, and nudity is MANDATORY in the pools and on the
beaches. At Club Orient, there's free access to the facilities, and bus-
loads of gawking tourists ruin it for everyone. Look, I'm not saying that
Cap D'Agde is perfect(no place is), but it certainly is worth the extra
effort to get there over Club Orient. It IS better, it DOES cost less.
At least it does when booked with STARRTOURS. I've seen other nudist
travel companies charge $200-$250 a day from New York when you figure in
the airfare, with STARRTOURS it's a fraction over $100/day.
<snip>
Michael Starr
STARRTOURS
"Incredible Nude Adventures"
From: MICHAELSTARR <michae...@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: Cap D'Agde, France/2 Weeks w/air, $1539 Aug 2
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 19:18:37 -0500
Organization: Delphi (in...@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Message-ID: <RNAkAmd.mi...@delphi.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1g.delphi.com
Richard <Gymno...@wiseword.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> Cap D'Agde on the Mediterranean in France. Everything is included in the
>> package price of $1539 per person except food, which will cost no more
>> than at home, as Le Cap is NOT a tourist trap for Americans. It should
>
>The Cap d'Agde area is expensive, and I suspect that almost all
>naionalities (including Americans and French from other parts of
>France) will find food expensive, unless they buy all food from the
>large supermarket chains (several miles from the Naturist Quarter) and
>cater for themselves.
Your ID makes it obvious that you are from the United Kingdom. Cap D'Agde
WOULD be expensive for the Queen's subjects, who are currently suffering from
a weak British pound. Americans, on the other hand, will indeed find food in
Le Cap no more in price than at home here in America. Five francs(about $1)
for a full litre of fine French wine seems rather reasonable to me. Nineteen
francs for a pound and a half of freshly prepared veal cutlets with lemon from
Rafael's, my favorite take-out, also seems quite reasonable. If you want a
vacation that would cost you nearly nothing when you get there, try Bolivia.
What one would spend on food for two days in the Caribbean would suffice for
a WEEK in Cap D'Agde. For the best value to the best Naturist vacation
destination on Earth, it's STARRTOURS to Cap D'Agde, France! (800)99-STARR
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
is the toll-free number to get further info on the August 2 two-week trip
with open return at no extra charge over the $1539 package price.
From: red...@soho.ios.com (MYTEEONE)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.voyeurism
Subject: See Naked Teens & Pre-Teens LIVE!
Date: 13 Oct 1995 13:51:29 GMT
Organization: Internet Online Services
Lines: 14
For those who would be interested in LEGAL viewing of naked girls of all
ages, Uranus Travels, Inc. offers their annual "Voyeurs Vacation" to the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
nude seaside summer resort city of Cap D'Agde on the shore of the sunny
Mediterranean in southern France, where thousands of nubile young females
frolic, bare, on the beaches, in the pools, and in the shopping malls of
this fabulous destination. Yes, the shopping malls, as the entire city
lives life in the nude. The agency keeps no pictures, and their literature
is not illustrated, but those who wish to participate in next year's trip
can contact the tour operator toll-free at (800)997-8277 for a brochure.
(translates to: (800)99-STARR !)
The cost of this unique experience is $1539, including everything except
food, departing from JFK in New York. Food, incidently, will cost you no
more than at home, as Cap D'Agde is NOT a tourist trap for Americans.
The trip is limited to thirty, so make your plans for next year NOW!
-------------------------------3 posts end--------------------------
I look forward to your reactions to this material. I'm certain it
will be on-topic. 8-)
--
Kent Hooker,
"No mask like open truth to cover lies,
As to go naked is the best disguise." William Congreve, 1670-1729
Internet: kho...@doit.wisc.edu, Bitnet: kho...@wiscmacc.bitnet
-----------------------------------------------------------------
NoalReid
Hooker) writes:
>Below find 3 posts - the first two by Starr, one claiming no gawkers, the
>second proclaiming the number of his travel agency and price to book the
>Cap D'Agde trip, and the third, a post from a person who is promoting a
>trip aimed at voyeurs, coincidently at the same price and phone number
>as Mr. Starr's.
In article <45m4nm$f...@news.ios.com> Michael (by accident no doubt) used
his MYTEEONE account to post to rec.nude.
At least now we know why none of his "satisfied customers" have rushed to
tell us how great he is! They don't read this newsgroup. It would be bad
enough to travel with Michael, how would you like to go with THEM? :)
Noal
Leo Savage
<massive snip>
> I look forward to your reactions to this material. I'm certain it
> will be on-topic. 8-)
"And the truth shall set you free" (or at least save you $1539)
It's a good thing I long ago learned to never trust an obnoxious salesman.
--
("`-/")_.-'"``-._ Leo Savage
. . `; -._ )-;-,_`)
(v_,)' _ )`-.\ ``-' l...@esva.net
_.- _..-_/ / ((.'
((,.-' ((,/ http://www.esva.net/~leo/
Cozmo
> The agency keeps no pictures, and their literature
>is not illustrated, but those who wish to participate in next year's trip
>can contact the tour operator toll-free at (800)997-8277 for a brochure.
> (translates to: (800)99-STARR !)
Good find, Kent. Starr deserves it. His exploitation of nudists crawls
right up there with the likes of Tanya Harding and Black Velvet Elvis art.
Jeez, can you believe his line? I think I'd rather vacation in Bosnia (no
offense to the victims of that country) than spend any time on a
STARR Tour. Gad, could you imagine being trapped on a trip filled with
salivating gawkers led by the Starr of them all?
Natch,
Coz
tim keene
>In article <45m4nm$f...@news.ios.com> Michael (by accident no doubt) used
>his MYTEEONE account to post to rec.nude.
>At least now we know why none of his "satisfied customers" have rushed to
>tell us how great he is! They don't read this newsgroup. It would be bad
>enough to travel with Michael, how would you like to go with THEM? :)
>Noal
I suspect that, soon, that will no longer be an option for him, at
least. By the way, did you know that Attilla is the best process server
in the world - I can say that, because I'm uninvolved.
Ramona
--
attilla the hun (Tim Keene)
Best Process server/Skip-Tracer
in known world. (408-262-7021)
att...@netcom.com
Richard
Also, that he's being devious over the price of wine. I was in Agde
only a few weeks ago. ;)>
Richard ---------------------------------------------------------------
Home page now with pictures:
http://metro.turnpike.net/~burnham/index.html
Mohunch
> "Voyeurs Vacation"
Kent,
Thanks so much for finding and reposting this. Can you imagine being a
true naturist and then realizing after you join the group that you are
part of a "Voyeurs Vacation"? Also makes me understand why he has few if
any repeat customers.
Mo'
rere
newsgroup, but never could locate the posts. Many travel to cape d agde
for exactly this reason. As a travel agent who has been there he knows it
all too well. Thanks.
Kent Hooker
(p...@ra.adp.wisc.edu) wrote:
: Note: long post follows. No intention meant to readvertise commmercial
: -------------------------------3 posts end--------------------------
--
Re Re
rere
: In article <463d02$p...@news.doit.wisc.edu> kho...@doit.wisc.edu writes:
: >Note: long post follows. No intention meant to readvertise commmercial
: >material previously posted on rec.nude.
: >
: >Greetings, fellow rec.nude readers. I have run across an interesting
: >set of posts that I thought might be of interest to this group. Two
: >are recent posts from Mr. Starr promoting his travel company's tour to
: >Cap D'Agde. The third was a post to the newsgroup alt.sex.voyeurism
: >which was brought to my attention from a user who knows my
: >naturist proclivities as something that might be of interest to me. I
: >have included the three posts in pretty much their entirety, including
: >header and date information. I leave you to draw your own conclusions
: >based on what's presented here.
: much editing done . . .
:
: > One problem it DOESN'T have is gawkers;
: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: Operative language left, of course . . . .
: More editing . . .
: >From: red...@soho.ios.com (MYTEEONE)
: >Newsgroups: alt.sex.voyeurism
: >Subject: See Naked Teens & Pre-Teens LIVE!
: >Date: 13 Oct 1995 13:51:29 GMT
: >Organization: Internet Online Services
: >Lines: 14
: >
: >For those who would be interested in LEGAL viewing of naked girls of all
: >ages, Uranus Travels, Inc. offers their annual "Voyeurs Vacation" to the
: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: I haven't found a DBA statement for voyeurs vacation (It is a statement
: of who owns a business, and how it is organized) - so I called. I left a
: message on their machine, and Michael Starr called back. Hel told me
: that Uranus Travels, Inc. *is a division of STARRTOURS* (which explains
: why I couldn't find a dba statement), and I asked about the trip. I even
: asked about *very young* nude women - and he replied 'as young as you
: want'. He felt vindicated when he was able to tell me that they weren't
: 'available', I'm sure.
Ohhhhhh god. I'm jumping up and down with glee on this one!!!! :-)!
This is EXCELLENT. This is the BEST!!! Great work, Tim. I was waiting
until I could get to a pay phone to call his 800 number so when he called
back it wouldn't be my phone number. (For those that call him you might
want to do the same.) This is FABULOUS!!! Really!!! Kudos to you and
Kent. Hehehehe. Yeahhhhh. AAwwwwwright. I've got several friends over
here with me and we are toasting you guys with the finest bottled water
in the house right at this moment.
: > (translates to: (800)99-STARR !)
: >The cost of this unique experience is $1539, including everything except
: >food, departing from JFK in New York. Food, incidently, will cost you no
: >more than at home, as Cap D'Agde is NOT a tourist trap for Americans.
: >The trip is limited to thirty, so make your plans for next year NOW!
: >nude seaside summer resort city of Cap D'Agde on the shore of the sunny
: >Mediterranean in southern France, where thousands of nubile young females
: >frolic, bare, on the beaches, in the pools, and in the shopping malls of
: >this fabulous destination. Yes, the shopping malls, as the entire city
: >lives life in the nude.
: True, too true. . . .
: >The agency keeps no pictures, and their literature
: The Agency? STARRTOURS, perhaps?
: >is not illustrated, but those who wish to participate in next year's trip
: >can contact the tour operator toll-free at (800)997-8277 for a brochure.
: No, and all is perfectly legit. Of course, if your were Nikki Craft, and
: the troop leader began giving instructions to his group of voyeurs . . .
: Do you think we'd see bloodshed? I do. Do you want to travel with
: 'Uranus (see the young girls, as young as you want, nude,) Travels
: Inc. (and he's a corporation? I don't think so . . . ) ?
: All this, by the way (Nikki) is current. Have fun, you have the date of
: his next trip . . .
No, Tim, I won't be there, but I know who will be, and he'll be posing as
one of those guys who likes to look at all those naked teens.
Who says this place can't be fun.
**************************************************************************
"Geez, I had no idea rec.nude was such a tough group....."
Strictly amateur S.Jersey photographer ISO models
--
Re Re
Terry J. Wood
Ramona <att...@netcom.com> wrote:
>I suspect that, soon, that will no longer be an option for him, at
>least. By the way, did you know that Attilla is the best process server
>in the world - I can say that, because I'm uninvolved.
And look at how much information he can dig up with a simple phone call.
It didn't even cost him one thin dime for the call!
Terry
TnMinCt
a tourist trap etc have appeared in some of STARR's postings.
For example: <<Americans, on the other hand, will indeed find food in Le
Cap no more in price than at home here in America.>> quoted from:
Subject: Re: Cap D'Agde, France/2 Weeks w/air, $1539 Aug 2
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 19:18:37 -0500
advertising the greatness of STARRTOURS, may have been the one to start
the Two Weeks in France Without Your Pants/$1539 thread.
Guess we know STARR's agenda now... a tour for nudists my ass! He wants
nudists there to gratify the voyeurs.
spac...@ix.netcom.com
>No, Tim, I won't be there, but I know who will be, and he'll be posing as
>one of those guys who likes to look at all those naked teens.
>
>Who says this place can't be fun.
>
>*************************************************************************
*
>"Geez, I had no idea rec.nude was such a tough group....."
> Strictly amateur S.Jersey photographer ISO models
>--
>Re Re
Well, thank you so very much for lumping me in with the gawkers where I so
clearly belong based on the overwhelming evidence of your extensive
knowledge of myself and my photography. Obtained , no doubt,by painstaking
research and an extensive examination of my photos which are not
available to the public . How ,exactly , did you get these? Or have you
seen any of it? Have you ever considered a trial by evidence instead of
assumption? Or do you prefer to simply avoid the messy expense of a trial
and simply proceed to the execution? FYI: I DO go to C/O beaches, I DO
take my camera, MY clothing comes off as well, and I DO NOT EVER take
photos of ANYONE without their permission.
Here's a question for you: what are your standards for a
"legitimate" photograph of someone without clothing as opposed to an
exploitation shot? Or is everyone with a camera automatically a pervert in
your world?
--
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds.(Albert Einstein)
Richard Kenner
>Here's a question for you: what are your standards for a
>"legitimate" photograph of someone without clothing as opposed to an
>exploitation shot?
I'm also curious about rere's standards, but here's MY answer:
In general, a picture containing a person nude is a "legitimate naturist
photograph" if the picture would have been as interesting (or nearly as
interesting) if the person were not nude, i.e., where the state of dress of
the person is not what's making the picture interesting.
Perhaps the person is a friend, relative, or somebody you met and want to
remember. Or they are doing something interesting or posing in front of
some interesting scene.
Of course, an exception to this is artistic photography, where it is indeed
the fact that the person is nude that's central to the photograph. I'm not
competant to adress standard there, but that kind of picture has not, as
far as I know, been relevant to this discussion.
Bert Clanton
Kenner) wrote:
But rere thinks it's relevant. In my view, some of what rere considers to
be pornographic (e.g., what I've seen of Ed Lange's photographs of the
Webbers) I consider to possess substantial artistic merit, and NOT to be
pornographic. The Webbers were in fact a physically beautiful couple, and
Ed celebrated their beauty.
To further muddy the waters, I have seen sexually explicit photographs (
e.g., some of the work of people like Ron Rafaelli, Charlie Clark, Hella
Hamid, and Gypsy Ray) which seem to me not only to have great artistic
merit, but also to present a badly needed celebration of the beauty of
human sexuality. It would fulfill the dictionary definition of
"pornography" to call these people's work pornographic--but if you call it
pornographic, then there's "good" pornography and "bad" pornography, in my
opinion.
The relationship of all this to naturism gets complicated. The nudist
movement quite correctly points out that there is no inherent connection
between nudity and sexual arousal or sexual activity--"nude is not lewd".
The paradigm here is "nudism as wholesome family recreation". I fully
support that paradigm, though I don't care to participate in it except
informally with friends. But from my perspective, that paradigm is
seriously truncated. For reasons which are quite understandable in view of
this culture's shame-laden, prudish, and prurient love/hate stance toward
sexuality, most of the nudist movement seems frightened of sexuality. A
REALLY wholesome acceptance of our sexuality as an integral part of our
embodiment seems missing from the purview of a great many naturists. And I
think that's really sad.
Best regards,
Bert (who promises not to invade your premises with his filthy radical ideas)
Richard Kenner
>In general, a picture containing a person nude is a "legitimate naturist
>photograph" if the picture would have been as interesting (or nearly as
>interesting) if the person were not nude, i.e., where the state of dress of
>the person is not what's making the picture interesting.
Actually, I realized there is one other exception: the "look where we
were nude" type of picture. For example, nude skiing or being nude on
a snow-covered mountain.
Such a picture is a perfectly appropriate naturist photograph where the
fact that the people are nude is what makes the picture interesting.
Richard C Pasco
would also be interesting if the person(s) depicted were fully clothed.
I can think of one instance where it would be more interesting if
the person were fully clothed: The person is swimming in a pool!
On reading the original thread, I envisioned a picture on a Sunday
afternoon at a resort, with a dozen people in the pool. If they're
all nude, yes, that's an interesting picture to me: it shows me
what the resort looks like, and helps me remember a great day with
my friends.
Now, envision the same picture with everyone fully dressed in business
attire! Wow! What a picture! :-)
- Rich
spac...@ix.netcom.com
That is an interesting concept.Find me a pool's worth of people willing to
ruin suits for the photo, and I'll gladly take the picture ;-)
rere
: >
: >No, Tim, I won't be there, but I know who will be, and he'll be posing as
: >
: >Who says this place can't be fun.
: >*************************************************************************
: *
: >"Geez, I had no idea rec.nude was such a tough group....."
: > Strictly amateur S.Jersey photographer ISO models
: >--
: >Re Re
: Well, thank you so very much for lumping me in with the gawkers where I so
: clearly belong based on the overwhelming evidence of your extensive
: knowledge of myself and my photography. Obtained , no doubt,by painstaking
: research and an extensive examination of my photos which are not
: available to the public . How ,exactly , did you get these? Or have you
When I said I wouldn't be on the tour, but I knew who would be, I was
referring to a law enforcement person, not you. The sig was added on
separate from the text because I liked the quote from your post and
laughed when I read it because it is really kind of true. It was not
meant as any kind of insult. I haven't been keeping up with your posts
enough to know who you are or what you are up to. Sorry you took offense
because there was not any meant.
spac...@ix.netcom.com
>
>When I said I wouldn't be on the tour, but I knew who would be, I was
>referring to a law enforcement person, not you. The sig was added on
>separate from the text because I liked the quote from your post and
>laughed when I read it because it is really kind of true. It was not
>meant as any kind of insult. I haven't been keeping up with your posts
>enough to know who you are or what you are up to. Sorry you took offense
>because there was not any meant.
>
>**********************************************************
>"Geez, I had no idea rec.nude was such a tough group....."
> Strictly amateur S.Jersey photographer ISO models
>--
>Re Re
OOpps. My apologies then, for taking offense. I've encountered a few
professional skeptics in here. BTW, I usually go by
Spac...@ix.netcom.com, not Amateur photographer.(etc)..
Peace.
Ricardo Ben-Safed
In a previous article, be...@sonic.net (Bert Clanton) says:
>In article <46arte$j...@cmcl2.NYU.EDU>, ken...@lab.ultra.nyu.edu (Richard
>Kenner) wrote:
>
>> In article <468b3p$r...@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> spac...@ix.netcom.com writes:
>> >Here's a question for you: what are your standards for a
>> >"legitimate" photograph of someone without clothing as opposed to an
>> >exploitation shot?
>>
>> I'm also curious about rere's standards, but here's MY answer:
>>
>> In general, a picture containing a person nude is a "legitimate naturist
>> photograph" if the picture would have been as interesting (or nearly as
>> interesting) if the person were not nude, i.e., where the state of dress of
>> the person is not what's making the picture interesting.
>>
>> Perhaps the person is a friend, relative, or somebody you met and want to
>> remember. Or they are doing something interesting or posing in front of
>> some interesting scene.
>>
>> Of course, an exception to this is artistic photography, where it is indeed
>> the fact that the person is nude that's central to the photograph. I'm not
>> competant to adress standard there, but that kind of picture has not, as
>> far as I know, been relevant to this discussion.
>>
>But rere thinks it's relevant. In my view, some of what rere considers to
>be pornographic (e.g., what I've seen of Ed Lange's photographs of the
>Webbers) I consider to possess substantial artistic merit, and NOT to be
>pornographic. The Webbers were in fact a physically beautiful couple, and
>Ed celebrated their beauty.
>
>To further muddy the waters, I have seen sexually explicit photographs (
>e.g., some of the work of people like Ron Rafaelli, Charlie Clark, Hella
>Hamid, and Gypsy Ray) which seem to me not only to have great artistic
>merit, but also to present a badly needed celebration of the beauty of
>human sexuality. It would fulfill the dictionary definition of
>"pornography" to call these people's work pornographic--but if you call it
>pornographic, then there's "good" pornography and "bad" pornography, in my
>opinion.
And I've seen some of the works of Robert Maplethorpe which are both
sexually explicit and of great artistic beauty. But dont ask Jesse Helms
for his opinion!
>
>The relationship of all this to naturism gets complicated. The nudist
>movement quite correctly points out that there is no inherent connection
>between nudity and sexual arousal or sexual activity--"nude is not lewd".
And even if some make or find a connection it still is not lewd. It's
just natural human behavior!
>The paradigm here is "nudism as wholesome family recreation". I fully
>support that paradigm, though I don't care to participate in it except
>informally with friends. But from my perspective, that paradigm is
>seriously truncated. For reasons which are quite understandable in view of
>this culture's shame-laden, prudish, and prurient love/hate stance toward
>sexuality, most of the nudist movement seems frightened of sexuality. A
>REALLY wholesome acceptance of our sexuality as an integral part of our
>embodiment seems missing from the purview of a great many naturists. And I
>think that's really sad.
>
>Best regards,
>Bert (who promises not to invade your premises with his filthy radical ideas)
>
I disagree, the Naturist/nudist movement is more a collection of people
and ideas around nudism. It's too small to be called a movement!
But an important ideal which I share is that nudism/naturism shouldnt
offend the non-nudists. Nudism is really a clothing optional lifestyle
not just for a picnic at the beach,but for all of life. But it has to
be freely chosen,not forced upon people in a shocking way. Face it the
non-nudist world is a violent place to be. There are no drive by shooting
at any nudist club or beach!
--
Nude and Naturally, Ricardo Ben-Safed
email: rben...@capaccess.org
=======================================================================
Richard
If I am not mistaken, "Starr" claimed he used one of the British
naturist tour operators to handle arrangements in France. I have
contacted both of the main operators, described "Starr" to them and
the IDs he uses, and they have told me that they do not to their
knowledge have dealings with this man.
It is obvious that he goes under various identities, both personal
names and trading names. So far we have had Michael Starr,
Starrtours, Uranus Voyages and possibly Michael Cohen. If anyone
discovers any others, please post them here or email me, so that I can
keep the tour operators informed.
Richard Burnham---------------------------------------------------------