*S* history of erotic lit.
that abby girl
there's a large erotic tradition in ancient greek and roman texts (Iliad
and Aneid are pretty filled with it). ovid was one of the originals, he
emphasized love, not just sex, and wrote several odes. haven't read enough
of him to offer a critique.
kama sutra, of course, demonstrates the cultural beliefs in the centrality
of sex in everyday life. emphasizes the importance of foreplay, equal
pleasure for both parties. believe in sex as a unique encounter between
two people, not something to toy with. very holy. most of the instructions
contained in it are pretty much things that anyone who was sexually active
at all would figure out by themselves, so it was given to younger people
for them to study before they had their first encounter. for example,
there's 8 types of biting, and each of the types is described in great
detail, with location and all. the introduction is very interesting- kind
of a philosophy or psychology of love.
in early mideval times, there's some saints. St. Augustine, 354-430, wrote
_confessions_. lots of detail about his lust for women, vivid dreams,
describes his feelings of deep love for females in general. contains lots
of guilt about his feelings for women and his lust.
st. anselm (italian) 1033-1109. wrote letters to his lover (a local
italian man, i believe), very strong homoerotic prose and poetry.
eventually appointed archbishop of canterbury in 1093, worked to prevent
the passage of the first attempted english anti-gay legislation.
the medieval women mystics (such as Angela of Foligno, St. Gertrude, etc)
wrote the first (except for sappho, of course) widely spread
female-written erotica. based on meditations on the crucifixion, dialectic
of desire and interplay of agression and surrender. lots of penetration
imagery. if you skim it really fast, it's about jesus and god and all
that, but when you read over it more slowly, it's beautiful imagery about
shafts of light penetrating the heart, bringing the most extreme pleasure
and joy possible.
moving on to the high-middle ages- time of phallo-centricity, more so than
ever before. many poems and songs dedicated to the penis. example, welsh
poety Dafydd ap Gwiliym wrote _the penis_, a complaint to an unruly organ,
boasting of his sexual prowess.
chaucer is widely considered to be one of the best erotic writers- not
delerious or pornographic or misogynistic.
boccaccio also really popular, although he was too misogynistic for words.
decameron was heavily influenced by classic eroticism, as well as medieval
french chivalric romance and dante. sex is pretty much omnipresent (echos
kama sutra). he worked it into pretty much every story in the decameron,
but it wasn't included as something shocking and extraordinary so much as
something that just happened all the time.
late middle ages:
louise labé: female french poety. widely published, was a
high-class prostitue with her own brothel.
pierre de bourdeille: son of a lady-in-waiting of Queen Marguerite
of Navarre. stories of the sex adventure of the french court,
concentrating on females. (the court was considered to be the place where
women experimented with sexuality so they would know what they were doing
when they got married). extreme emphasis on the use of dildos, joys of
oral sex, and page after page after page glorifying lesbian sex.
also, christopher marlowe, edmund spenser, shakespeare (venus and
adonis, antony and cleopatra) and keats they were heavily influenced by
ovid.
during 17th and 18th cent, atmosphere changed a lot due to the
unifications of church and state, leading to stronger puritanical
conventions. general atmosphere became much more conservative. also,
beginnings of probelms with syphilis (interestingly, the disease is named
after a classical myth where a shepard named syphilis is cursed by the sun
god for excessive debauchery).
since nobody was writing erotica, they had to import it, resulting in a
rise in populatiry of chinese erotic lit. one of the most well known is
_the carnal prayer mat_, story of enlightenment gained by a scholar during
his licentiousness before taking his monastic vows. chinese erotic lit
always refers to the penis as the "jade whisk," which i thought was cool.
marquis de sade, of course. my friend talked a lot about him, and i'm not
totally up on him. he mainly used sex as a way to defy all conventions-
trying to be as vulgar and horrid as possible in order to shock to the
greatest extent (eg: "I like nothing more than misusing the name of the
lord when I am stiff.") he also wanted to defy the conventions of nature,
so he refused to ever ejaculate into a woman, in order to foil nature's
plan of reproduction. strong emphasis on pain (duh...) and homoeroticism.
he didn't see sex as an overarching philosophy, and if it was a path to
anything, it was a pretty short path. he does become overly philosophic in
bits of it. first drama written primarily to shock: plays with characters
such as cuntagratia, prickett, and fuckadilla. pretty subtle.
ahra behn, female british restoration writer, writes _the disappointment_,
first treatment of male impotence by a female writer. huge outcry, and it
was supressed.
then in early 18th cent, explosion of erotic lit. not confined to peotry
drama and fiction, but also pseudo-medical works, journalistic
explotations (the rise of tabloids) and use in political anti-aristocracy
works (as an example of the depravity of the aristocracy and how horrible
they were).
novels in post-reformation england dealt mainly with the middle-class
fascination with the underworld. also showed their concerns with money,
lots of financial metaphors and euphemisms for sexual acts and anatomy.
one of the more widely-known novels was _fanny hill_ by john cleland.
memoirs of a woman of pleasure, young girl being trained as a whore.
considered first western erotic novel.
french novels, on the other hand, displayed the attraction to "exotic
lands." lots were set in africa or the orient or on an island somewhere.
huge rise in contes des feés érotiques.
20th cent.:
lady chatterly's lover. more known for continual banning/unbanning than
for the actual content. generally considered to didactic and naively
sensuous to be considered really erotic. there is one nice passage from
it, describing the beginning of an erection, but otherwise it's not that
great. i've also heard quotes from women saying that his descriptions of
orgasms gave them unrealistically high expectations.
henry miller (_trpoic of cancer_, _tropic of capricorn_) portrays
narcissistic egocentric society, men removed from women by convention and
idealism. motto seems to be "grab it before it disappears." women are
there pretty much just to be grabbed and used by the men before they
disappear.
lots of exploration of the relationship between sex, pain and death.
reage, obviously. kind of existential in it's demonstration that the only
way to freedom is complete bondage, and the only way you know if you have
something is to give it away (rene gave o to the other people at the
chateau to use, showing that o was his). my friend talked more about this,
but i can't remember exactly what she said.
reage drew upon lots of past erotic traditions; gothic and libertine. read
an interesting article about the story of o in the new yorker about six
months or so ago, saying that she wrote it as a private love letter to her
lover, who persuaded her to finally publish it. it was the only erotica
she ever wrote, until she tried to do the sequel a bit later. don't
remember her real name.
homoerotic tradition explored: jean genet, em forester (maurice), thomas
mann (death in venice), jean cocteau. somewhat covert, sometimes open.
homosexuality still widely considered to be a disease during the first
half of the century.
nabakov, _lolita_. exploration of middle-aged man's unrequited passion for
young girl. not so much lust as just his overwhelming admiration, almost
worship, for his little "nymphette." beautiful writing. he remains true to
her even after she abandons him, even after she grows up and marries
someone else, and rejects him entirely. i cried a lot at the end. written
before childhood abuse became prevalent (or at least publicized and
discussed at all). probably wouldn't be published now. rampantly
pedopheliac, but damn can the man write.
female writers: anais nin. i read delta of venus. collection of short
stories, written for a wealthy patron for $1 a page. he told her that he
didn't want extensive character development or plot, just sex. however,
some of the characters run through several of the stories, so by the end,
you have a pretty good idea of what everyone's like. i adore this book. i
own it now. its.... mrawr. yeah. mmmm.
marguerite duras. wrote _the lover_, based on her experiences as a young
girl growing up in southeast asia, having an affair with an older chinese
man. exquisite writing. don't see the movie, read the book.
colette, kate chopin. they faced some hostility, but recieved much more
widespread and open female support of their writings than femals had
received in the past.
also jeanette winterson (_written on the body_ is a beautiful story,
narrated by an unidentified person, genderless and nameless, of an affair
with a married woman. most of the book is more a dissection of love than
straight erotica, but it was wonderful nonetheless.
another one i love: _vox_, nicholson baker. the whole book is dialogue, a
transcription of a single intercity call between two people on a phone sex
chat line. sounds contrived, but it is So difficult to put down, and there
are several simply lovely stories in it. one of my favorites.
oh, and i forgot _venus in furs_, leopold sacher-masoch. story of a man
who completely subjects himself to wanda, the woman he worships. he asks
her to treat him like her slave, whipping him, abusing him, neglecting him
and having affairs with other men while he watches. eventually, she falls
in love with him, but he rejects it and leaves her. much more philosophy
and psychology than sex- there's no explicit sex scenes through the entire
book. Very well written, though, i highly recommend.
i think that's all. i can post excerpts, more details, themes, my
thoughts, etc, if people are interested. because i don't think we talk
about sex enough on here.
abby.
*basket case bitch*shiny and loud*high-octane*angry snatch*
ab...@nwu.edu
Angela Reid
that abby girl (ab...@nwu.edu) wrote:
: during 17th and 18th cent, atmosphere changed a lot due to the
: unifications of church and state, leading to stronger puritanical
: conventions. general atmosphere became much more conservative. also,
: beginnings of probelms with syphilis (interestingly, the disease is named
: after a classical myth where a shepard named syphilis is cursed by the sun
: god for excessive debauchery).
: since nobody was writing erotica, they had to import it, resulting in a
I don't know that I'd agree with this. (also, you say yourself that
erotica exploded in the 18th century: "then in early 18th cent, explosion
of erotic lit. not confined to peotry drama and fiction, but also
pseudo-medical works, journalistic explotations (the rise of tabloids)
and use in political anti-aristocracy works (as an example of the
depravity of the aristocracy and how horrible they were.")
You listed Shakespeare as an erotic author on the basis of
-Antony and Cleopatra- and -Venus and Adonis-. Certainly there were many
17th century poets producing works as erotic as those. The
"suasio"--the poem convincing a woman to have sex--was one of the most
popular genres, and often produced by ministers.
Robert Herrick was positively obsessed by sex, even though by all
accounts he seems to have been celibate. Among his many works, we owe him
for:
"Upon the Nipples of Julia's Breast"
Have ye beheld (with much delight)
A red rose peeping through a white?
Or else a cherry (double graced)
Within a lily center-placed?
Or ever marked the pretty beam
A strawberry shows half drowned in cream?
Or seen rich rubies blushing through
A pure smooth pearl, and orient too?
So like to this, nay all the rest,
Is each neat niplet of her breast.
Then there's John Donne. Between sermons and religious satires, he
wrote a number of "suasio." I think the best example from
him is probably Elegy XIX (To his Mistress Going to Bed)
Come, Madam, come! All rest my powers defy;
Until I labor, I in labor lie.
The foe offtimes, having the foe in sight,
Is tired with standing though he never fight.
Off with that girdle, like heaven's zone glittering,
But a far fairer world encompassing.
Unpin that spangled breastplate which you wear,
That th' eyes of busy fools may be stopped there.
Unlace yourself, for that harmonious chime
Tells me from you that now it is bedtime.
Off with that happy busk, which I envy,
That still can be, and still can stand so nigh.
Your gown going off, such beauteous state reveals
As when from flow'ry meads th' hill's shadow steals.
Off with that wiry coronet, and show
The hairy diadem which on you doth grow.
Now off with those shoes, and then safely tread
In this, love's hallowed temple, this soft bed.
In such white robes heaven's angels used to be
Received by men; thou, angel, brings't with thee
A heaven like Mahomet's paradise; and though
Ill spirits walk in white, we eas'ly know
By this these angels from an evil sprite:
Those set our hairs, but these our flesh upright.
License my roving hands, and let them go
Before, behind, between, above, below.
O my America, my new-found-land!
My kingdom, safeliest when with one man manned,
My mine of precious stones, my empery,
How blest am I in this discovering thee!
To enter in these bonds is to be free;
Then where my hand is set my seal shall be.
Full nakedness, all joys are due to thee!
As souls unbodied, bodies unclothed must be
To taste whole joys. Gems which you women use
Are like Atlanta's balls, cast in men's views
That, when a fool's eye lighteth on a gem,
His earthly soul may covet theirs, not them.
Like pictures, or like books' gay coverings made
For laymen, are all women thus arrayed;
Themselves are mystic books, which only we,
Whom their imputed grace will dignify,
Must see revealed. Then, since that I may know,
As liberally as to a midwife show
Thyself; cast all, yea, this white linen hence;
There is no penance due to innocence.
To teach thee, I am naked first; why then,
What need'st thou have more covering than a man?
<I'm especially fond of the double entendre in the last line>
: ahra behn, female british restoration writer, writes _the disappointment_,
: first treatment of male impotence by a female writer. huge outcry, and it
: was supressed.
Aphra. She was the first -professional- British female writer, by the
way. Most commonly now studied for her novel, _Oroonoko_. Aphra was
also obsessed with incest. Most of Aphra's works were rather celebrated
than suppressed--rumour has it she received the patronage of Nell Gwyn
herself (the mistress of Charles II, for those who haven't studied
restoration literature).
Angela
Charles Poole
What about the Song of Solomon?
[gigantic snip]
> henry miller (_trpoic of cancer_, _tropic of capricorn_) portrays
> narcissistic egocentric society, men removed from women by convention and
> idealism. motto seems to be "grab it before it disappears." women are
> there pretty much just to be grabbed and used by the men before they
> disappear.
I truly hate to disagree with my dear abby, but have you read Miller's
trilogy, _Sexus_, _Nexus_ and _Plexus_? I've gotten the feeling that
Miller truly loved and respected women, especially for the time and place
in which he wrote.
I think this is a great new thread. And what does it have to do with Tori
you say (what does rmt-a have do do with Tori, for that matter?)? IMHO Tori
*is* about love and sex. And she sure as hell is erotic.
> i think that's all. i can post excerpts, more details, themes, my
> thoughts, etc, if people are interested. because i don't think we talk
> about sex enough on here.
An excellent idea abby! Please post away. I think we'd all enjoy
reading your exerpts. If people don't agree ... set your killfile.
> abby.
> *basket case bitch*shiny and loud*high-octane*angry snatch*
> ab...@nwu.edu
What I consider erotic besides the obvious literal interpretation of the
word are those writings that elicit vivid mental images (as Tori's songs
do), such as the following:
Sometimes, unexpectedly, in the early morning, I will imagine an
extraordinary woman -- lush and lavish and lovely -- and... I will reach
out with my hand and find the reality of the dream woman. She exists,
and lo and behold, she is alive. She is warm. She responds. She
murmurs. She weeps. She is wild. She is dangerous. But sometimes,
like this photograph, she will come running at me with all the beauty of
the unmistakable tide coming in on the rough shore: And I lie there like
a rock.
--Richard Burton about Elizabeth Taylor
Angel: suppose there's a place we know nothing about, and there on some
indescribable carpet, lovers showed all that here they're for ever unable
to manage -- their daring
lofty figures of heart-flight,
their towers of pleasure, their ladders,
long since, where ground never was, just quiveringly
propped by each other, -- suppose they could manage it there,
before the spectators ringed round, the countless unmurmuring dead:
would not the dead then fling their last, their for ever reserved,
ever-concealed, unknown to us, ever-valid
coins of happiness down before the at last
truthfully smiling pair on the quietened carpet?
--Duino Elegies, The Fifth Elegy, Ranier Maria Rilke
If there is anything which deserves to be called miraculous, is
it not love? What other power, what other mysterious force is there
which can invest life with such undeniable splendor?
--Nexus, Henry Miller
That last quote doesn't fall under the umbrella of eroticism but then
neither does the next. Eros is the mystery and beauty of life. Without
it we are but shells.
When the mystery of the connection goes, love goes. It's that
simple. This suggests that it isn't love that is so important to us but
the mystery itself. The love connection may be merely a device to put us
in contact with the mystery, and we long for love to last so that the
ecstasy of being near the mystery will last. It is contrary to the
nature of mystery to stand still. Yet it's always there, somewhere, a
world on the other side of the mirror (or the Camel pack), a promise in
the next pair of eyes that smile at us. We glimpse it when _we_ stand still.
The romance of new love, the romance of solitude, the romance of
objecthood, the romance of ancient pyramids and distant stars are means
of making contact with the mystery. When it comes to perpetuating it,
however, I got no advice. But I can and will remind you of two of the
most important facts I know:
1) _Everything_ is part of it.
2) It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
--Still Life With Woodpecker, Tom Robbins
Anyway, thanks Abby for stimulating my sometimes all too narrow focus. I
hope your post brings lots more from others.
Charlie
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| Charlie Poole | A pretty girl is like a catalog of all the |
| | marvelous things there are in the universe |
| cpo...@indiana.edu | to dream of, worship, discuss, or kiss. -Oui |
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