-R- The Tori fan's appreciation of other female artists
fluffsterbrian
established, female songwriters/musical artists. The following statistics
are not in any way scientificly grounded, they are my own guesses based on
male intuition..... :)
70% of Tori fans are Kate Bush fans
40% of Tori fans are Patti Smith fans
20% of Tori fans are Liz Phair fans
15% of Tori fans are Siouxsie Sioux fans
5% of Tori fans are Lisa Germano fans
2% of Tori fans are Exene Cervenka fans
1% of Tori fans are Rasputina fans
.01% of Tori fans are Zoe Pollack fans
I am a fan and admirer of all the above artists. Any thoughts or
confessions of admiration (or hatred) for any of the above, or on my
possible accuracy?
gypsy woman
http://www.lauranyro.net
"fluffsterbrian" <fluffsterb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<QTzr8.20202$nt1.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
René Brungs
don't agree with people who compare her with Tori. They are completely
different characters and their music is very different as well. Haven't
heard from Kate Bush in a long time. Is she still making music ?
"fluffsterbrian" <fluffsterb...@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:QTzr8.20202$nt1.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
fluffsterbrian
"René Brungs" wrote:
> I'm not a fan of any woman you mentioned and though i like Kate Bush, i
> don't agree with people who compare her with Tori. They are completely
> different characters and their music is very different as well. Haven't
> heard from Kate Bush in a long time. Is she still making music ?
To the best of my knowledge, Kate Bush hasn't made an album since 1993's The
Red Shoes. Also, unlike Tori, who has toured tirelessly over the course of
her career, Kate Bush only had one concert tour, a limited series of
concerts in the UK in 1979. She seems to be something of a hermit. I agree
fully, by the way, that Kate and Tori are very different artists, though
Kate undoubtedly had at least some influence on Tori. Tori strikes me as
more intense and spontaneous and passionate an artist than Kate Bush.
Narnia
<fluffsterb...@yahoo.com> sang with gusto in rec.music.tori-amos:
> Was wondering about other Tori fan's appreciation of other, strong,
> established, female songwriters/musical artists.
My favourite music tends to be sung by female musicians; I tend to like
female voices more than male voices on average.
> I am a fan and admirer of all the above artists. Any thoughts or
> confessions of admiration (or hatred) for any of the above, or on my
> possible accuracy?
I have no idea if you're accurate. However, out of your list, I
personally like Kate Bush, Patti Smith, Siouxsie Sioux, Lisa Germano,
Exene Cervenka, and Rasputina. I've never heard of Zoe Pollack, and
although I tried to get into Liz Phair, I wasn't able to.
Other female artists I can think of off the top of my head I enjoy are
Diamanda Galas, Debbie Harry, Sarah McLachlan, and Janis Joplin, although
there are quite a lot more.
--
=Narnia=
http://www.velvet.net/
faeriecat
"fluffsterbrian" <fluffsterb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:QTzr8.20202$nt1.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Not I.
> 40% of Tori fans are Patti Smith fans
> 20% of Tori fans are Liz Phair fans
> 15% of Tori fans are Siouxsie Sioux fans
I shall be counted among those!
> 5% of Tori fans are Lisa Germano fans
Is that the female singer from Dead Can Dance?
> 2% of Tori fans are Exene Cervenka fans
Who?
> 1% of Tori fans are Rasputina fans
Most certainly I am!
> .01% of Tori fans are Zoe Pollack fans
Ack! Who, I ask again?
Koren
faeriecat
"gypsy woman" <songandd...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c7c7d828.0204...@posting.google.com...
Just a friendly reminder to you and Rene both... top-posting is
generally frowned upon in newsgroups. It's hard to read, and difficult
to tell what exactly you're responding to. Leaving the relevant part
of the previous post at top of your post, then snipping out the rest
and replying at the bottom is a better approach. Send an email to
new...@rmta.org for even more scintillating informantion. :)
Koren, having a bitch moment
fluffsterbrian
"faeriecat" wrote:
I'm actually surprised how many artists you and Narnia mentioned that I did
guess right about--especially Rasputina (cool). To address the ones you
asked about:
> "fluffsterbrian" wrote
>
> > 5% of Tori fans are Lisa Germano fans
>
> Is that the female singer from Dead Can Dance?
No, she used to play violin for John Cougar Mellencamp, but is now a solo
artist, her main instruments being keyboards, voice and violin. Lisa
Germano's own work is about as far from the mainstream heartland rock of
Mellencamp as you can get. It's intimate, quirky, minimalist, and
introspective, with lyrics that are sometimes whimsical, sometimes
devastating.
> > 2% of Tori fans are Exene Cervenka fans
>
> Who?
Former lead singer of the L.A. punk band X (one of the most poetic of all
punk bands).
> > .01% of Tori fans are Zoe Pollack fans
>
> Ack! Who, I ask again?
A very talented, individualistic singer/songwriter from England who had a
fine album on RCA in '96 titled "Hammer", released under just her first name
"Zoe". The album is an ecclectic mix of rock, folk, country, celtic and
other influences, with extremely personal, often heartbreaking, sometimes
sharply pointed lyrics. It's one of my favorite albums in my collection.
She has an earthy-sounding voice, and is even more impassioned live (I saw
her at Brownie's in NYC) than on disc. Unfortunately, RCA didn't seem to do
anything to promote her, and she never seemed to catch on in the US. Like
Tori, she'd had one misfire album before this much better "re-debut", an
album from '91 of dance pop called "Scarlett Red & Blue", which I do not
recommend.
~Brian
fluffsterbrian
Here's how I meant to put it:
I'm actually surprised how many artists you and Narnia mentioned that I did
guess right about--especially Rasputina (cool). To address the ones you
asked about:
faeriecat
> I'm actually surprised how many artists you and Narnia
> mentioned that I did guess right about--especially Rasputina
> (cool). To address the ones you asked about:
(snip)
Thanks for explaining! Now I have new (to me) female artists to go
discover.
Koren, who adores Rasputina
fluffsterbrian
"Dayna Flumerfelt" wrote:
[in reference to Patti Smith]
> But I like that "Pissing in a River" song. She sings that,
> right? *feels stupid if it was someone else*
Yes; that's actually one of my favorite Patti Smith songs of all time. It
was used extremely effectively in a key emotional moment in the female
coming of age drama "All Over Me," in which the mood and lyrics of the song
function as a mirror for the emotions of Claude, the character played by
Alison Folland.
> -Dayna (who is listening to Alanis Morissette right now)
>
Of course, Alanis should go on any such list. I was lucky enough to see
their joint tour when it passed my way. My only regret is that they didn't
do even one song together....perhaps they didn't want to steal each other's
creative spotlight, but it would have really been something.
~Brian
Dayna Flumerfelt
It
>> was used extremely effectively in a key emotional moment in the female
>> coming of age drama "All Over Me," in which the mood and lyrics of the
song
>> function as a mirror for the emotions of Claude, the character played by
>> Alison Folland."
That's actually where I first heard the song, and probably the reason I
really enjoy listening to it. When I hear "Pissing in a River" I
automatically associate it with the heavy emotions of the movie "All Over
Me". That moment in the movie was really incredible and I think I cried
through the whole 2 or 3 minutes of it. I'm amazed to see someone make that
same association. It's kind of random, so it makes it cool like that.
>>"Of course, Alanis should go on any such list."
That's great to find other Alanis/Tori fans out there. A lot of Tori fans
seem to give off that "Alanis Morissette isn't good enough" kind of vibe. I
remember a while ago, in between Jagged Little Pill and Supposed Former
Infatuation Junkie when critics began bashing Alanis and calling her "a tool
of the record industry". For a while I fell for all the shit. Then I
started thinking for myself a bit more and realized that Alanis is an
incredibly talented singer/songwriter. I'd really like to see her live, but
it looks like the recent tour isn't coming my way...
fluffsterbrian
"Dayna Flumerfelt" wrote:
> When I hear "Pissing in a River" I
> automatically associate it with the heavy emotions of the movie "All Over
> Me". That moment in the movie was really incredible and I think I cried
> through the whole 2 or 3 minutes of it.
It's still hard for me to listen to the song without wanting to cry (and
it's a song I often put on when I *need* to cry).
"All Over Me" is simply the best coming-of-age film I've ever seen, and the
scene where Claude breaks down crying while listening to "Pissing in a
River" with Lucy is probably the most emotionally intense scene in the film.
Alison Folland as Claude is completely real in this movie, and really made
me experience every emotion her character went through. "All Over Me" is an
example of why I love indie film so much--it's the sort of film that gives
the viewer characters and emotions that are far more real and honest than
anything in any major Hollywood film, where the studios seem to be more
interested in finding bigger and better ways to blow things up than tell
stories about real people.
> I
> remember a while ago, in between Jagged Little Pill and Supposed Former
> Infatuation Junkie when critics began bashing Alanis and calling her "a
tool
> of the record industry".
I think that was part of the unfair price Alanis paid for having such major
(and well-deserved) success come so quickly and at such a young age. The
same industry and critics that build aritists up overnight are ready to tear
them down the next day. But I do think Alanis has the talent to be a true
musical force for some time to come.
~Brian
ai...@rmta.org
FAQ.
Dayna Flumerfelt <da...@ncia.net> wrote:
[snips]
> That's great to find other Alanis/Tori fans out there. A lot of Tori fans
> seem to give off that "Alanis Morissette isn't good enough" kind of vibe.
well, around here we beat those people with sticks. i'm loving the new
alanis album, although "utopia" annoys the crap out of me. it's "northern
lad"-skippable.
Aimee the Magdalene
&&&&&&&&& the cognitive dissonance .sig &&&&&&&&&
& i won't let you fall apart NIN &
& i have to learn to let you crash down Tori Amos &
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
fluffsterbrian
<ai...@rmta.org> wrote:
> threadmarkers, kids! if you don't know what that means, read the fucking
> FAQ.
>
I had noticed after my last post that it didn't have one. I'm glad it
didn't phase you too much. :)
fluffsterbrian
<ai...@rmta.org> wrote:
> it's "northern
> lad"-skippable.
>
Well, "Northern Lad" was featured in an episode of Dawson's Creek.....is
that official confirmation of its "skippable" status? :)
~Brian
ai...@rmta.org
no, that has nothing to do with it. they could play an entire tori album
on _dawson's crack_ and it wouldn't taint it for me. it's just that it's
such a slow, sappy song. i can't take that kind of thing. like some
people say that black sabbath or something like that makes them want to go
and kill. well, loreena mckennit makes me want to go on an axe-murdering
rampage. it's the slow stuff i can't take.
Aimee the Magdalene
| the view that the metaphysician is to be reckoned among the poets |
| appears to rest on the assumption that both talk nonsense. but |
| this assumption is false. in the vast majority of cases the |
| sentences produced by poets do have literal meaning. |
| - A.J. Ayer |
Kristin E. Holland
: well, around here we beat those people with sticks. i'm loving the new
: alanis album, although "utopia" annoys the crap out of me. it's "northern
: lad"-skippable.
I'm enjoying the album very much myself. I skip "flinch" and the
"particular moment" one, but I cycle through "unsexy" about 3 times
before going ahead. I'm impressed with her singing: it's getting
stronger, less thin, more relaxed. I'm impressed with her musically:
she's doing interesting harmonies and rhythms. I'm impressed with her
lyrically: she still tends toward her trademark "lists" of things, but
not as much - it's more a pattern than a limited list, and the pattern
develops through the songs more than it used to.
-K
--
Kristin E. Holland | You keep using that word.
khol...@sas.upenn.edu | I do not think it means
Dept. of Classical Studies | what you think it means.
University of Pennsylvania | -Inigo Montoya
Kristin E. Holland
<a8u90d$2q2$2...@concertina.rmta.org:> Distribution:
ai...@rmta.org wrote:
: such a slow, sappy song. i can't take that kind of thing.
Me, I find it slow and draggy...and also sloppy singing and songwriting.
She's expressed similar thoughts with cleaner lyrics, better diction
(yes, this strikes me as lazy, not just her usual Tori-esque
prononciations) and better pitch. It all just comes across slow and
strangled to me - and not artistically. (By contrast, I didn't like the
Counting Crows "Mrs. Jones" when it first came out, because it seemed
repetitive...but the more I listened to it, the more that seemed to be
precisely the point.)
Apologies, BTW, if this is somebody's favorite tune; this is my sense of
it, but I understand that some people really like this one. I had a
fascinating conversation with a girl who loved exactly the opposite of my
set of favorites from Choirgirl. Everything I skip, she loves. Go figure.
Dayna Flumerfelt
threadmarkers, kids! if you don't know what that means, read the fucking
FAQ.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
I suck.
I won't let it happen again.
-Dayna (who committed the unforgivable sin and feels really stupid)
Trinity
explained, only experienced:
Hardly unforgivable. Not even a sin. Just a mistake. Aimee just likes
to say "fuck" a lot ;)
Cheryl
It's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care.
- OFFICE SPACE
Dayna Flumerfelt
It's still hard for me to listen to the song without wanting to cry (and
it's a song I often put on when I *need* to cry).
"All Over Me" is simply the best coming-of-age film I've ever seen, and the
scene where Claude breaks down crying while listening to "Pissing in a
River" with Lucy is probably the most emotionally intense scene in the film.
Alison Folland as Claude is completely real in this movie, and really made
me experience every emotion her character went through. "All Over Me" is an
example of why I love indie film so much--it's the sort of film that gives
the viewer characters and emotions that are far more real and honest than
anything in any major Hollywood film, where the studios seem to be more
interested in finding bigger and better ways to blow things up than tell
stories about real people.
Yes, I also enjoy independent film for many of those same reasons. Indie
films and documentaries always seem so much more real. Honesty in
entertainment is on the decline with so many movies just trying to make
millions. If you enjoyed "All Over Me", I suggest seeing "Girlfight" if you
haven't already. I thought it was a great movie. It actually inspired me
to want to box. Too bad there are no local facilities for lessons or even
independent training.
[SNIPPED]
I think that was part of the unfair price Alanis paid for having such major
(and well-deserved) success come so quickly and at such a young age. The
same industry and critics that build aritists up overnight are ready to tear
them down the next day. But I do think Alanis has the talent to be a true
musical force for some time to come.
[/SNIP}
I watch too much Vh1 and I'm willing to openly admit that here on a public
newsgroup. The Alanis Morissette behind the music was recently aired and
it's actually one of the better "Behind the Music" episode. I have it on
VHS (taped, of course) just so that I could watch it whenever I'm in that
kind of Alanis mood. "Behind the Music" really enhances appreciation for a
lot of artists. It's a good series. Anyway, it explains about the critics
and her reaction to the instant success of her early career. It's
insightful and worth watching if you come across it while channel surfing.
Critics really are shit anyway. For the most part, the way I see it,
they're wrong. I've seen SO many movies with bad reviews that I absolutely
loved enough to see more than once in a theater. I can't give an example of
the top of my head, but when dealing with reviews and critics, the best bet
is to merely ignore all the bullshit. This sounds obvious to most of you
out there, but for me, it's actually a new way of thinking.
-Dayna (who needs to go return some overdue library books and pay her fine)
Dayna Flumerfelt
Hardly unforgivable. Not even a sin. Just a mistake. Aimee just likes
to say "fuck" a lot ;)
Good to know. I was honestly really worried that I'd made an enemy. Peace,
yo!?
Anyway, I'm happy to hear that my mistake wasn't as serious as originally
thought.
You should put that in the FAQ though. "Warning: Aimee may say the word
"fuck" in a post, but she doesn't *really* hate you...." (Well at least I
hope she doesn't.)
But I will remember from now on - and I did go back and re-read the FAQ.
-Dayna (who needs to create some kind of signature)
fluffsterbrian
"Dayna Flumerfelt" wrote:
> If you enjoyed "All Over Me", I suggest seeing "Girlfight" if you
> haven't already. I thought it was a great movie. It actually inspired me
> to want to box.
Thanks for the recommendation; I'll have to check it out.
> Critics really are shit anyway. For the most part, the way I see it,
> they're wrong. I've seen SO many movies with bad reviews that I
absolutely
> loved enough to see more than once in a theater. I can't give an example
of
> the top of my head, but when dealing with reviews and critics, the best
bet
> is to merely ignore all the bullshit.
Some critics express themselves more literately than others, and have more
salient points to make when critiquing a movie (Stanley Kaufman of the New
Republic and Anthony Lane of the New Yorker come to mind, as does Roger
Ebert). Nevertheless, I do often find that even these critics whom I
respect are just as likely to recommend some piece of mass-market garbage I
won't like, or to give savagely nasty reviews to movies I love, as are the
mass majority of illiterate critics that I don't have any respect for at
all. So yes, always trust your own feelings and intuition about a movie.
~Brian
Maggie Morris
> well, around here we beat those people with sticks.
no, YOU beat those people with sticks. but we don't mind. ;)
-mags (one of THOSE PEOPLE. although i like her work more from album to
album...)
--
Flizim Flazim Pudding Pops! Hizzim Skizzim Jello! Picture
Pages! Theeeeooooooo!!!! -Hyoun
ai...@rmta.org
> In article <a8tula$2u4p$3...@concertina.rmta.org>, ai...@rmta.org wrote:
>> well, around here we beat those people with sticks.
> no, YOU beat those people with sticks. but we don't mind. ;)
> album...)
i'm not talking about those who aren't into alanis. that's perfectly
cool. i'm talking about people who are snotty about it, like her
commercial success means she has no artistic merit, or like she's just a
bad tori knockoff. a lot of *those* people were around when they were
touring together, and it got pretty ugly. and remember the big
controversy when "uninvited" came out and some people thought she was
saying, "tori, you must think i'm greatly intriguing," and were *sure*
this was a huge insult to tori somehow? it's that part of the fan base
that can't stand for any female artist to be successful if she's not tori.
Tiara Girl
this in news:QTzr8.20202$nt1.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net:
> 70% of Tori fans are Kate Bush fans
I'm sort of kind of a fan, but it's not related to my Tori-fandom.
> 40% of Tori fans are Patti Smith fans
Just can't get into her.
> 20% of Tori fans are Liz Phair fans
Yup yup!
> 15% of Tori fans are Siouxsie Sioux fans
Yeah.
> 5% of Tori fans are Lisa Germano fans
You make me wanna wear dresses.
> 2% of Tori fans are Exene Cervenka fans
I am a bad indie rock girl for knowing very little about X.
> 1% of Tori fans are Rasputina fans
Yes!
> .01% of Tori fans are Zoe Pollack fans
Who?
mt
Narnia
<fluffsterb...@yahoo.com> sang with gusto in rec.music.tori-amos:
> "faeriecat" wrote:
> I'm actually surprised how many artists you and Narnia mentioned that I did
> guess right about--especially Rasputina (cool).
Yeah, Rasputina rocks. I'm jealous of all you US folks who got to them on
their recent tour. OTOH, I did get to see one of the group members when
she was touring with Angels of Light.
>> > 5% of Tori fans are Lisa Germano fans
>>
>> Is that the female singer from Dead Can Dance?
>
> No, she used to play violin for John Cougar Mellencamp, but is now a solo
> artist, her main instruments being keyboards, voice and violin.
Whoops. I thought Lisa Germano was in Dead Can Dance as well, but it's
actually Lisa Gerrard that is.
<embarrassed blush>
In which case, I've not heard any Lisa Germano.
>> > 2% of Tori fans are Exene Cervenka fans
>>
>> Who?
>
> Former lead singer of the L.A. punk band X (one of the most poetic of all
> punk bands).
She has also done some work with the wonderful Lydia Lunch.
>> > .01% of Tori fans are Zoe Pollack fans
>>
>> Ack! Who, I ask again?
>
> A very talented, individualistic singer/songwriter from England who had a
> fine album on RCA in '96 titled "Hammer", released under just her first name
> "Zoe".
Do you know of a URL where I can obtain mp3s?
--
=Narnia=
http://www.velvet.net/
The Beet Man
<QTzr8.20202$nt1.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
"fluffsterbrian" <fluffsterb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Was wondering about other Tori fan's appreciation of other, strong,
>established, female songwriters/musical artists. The following statistics
>are not in any way scientificly grounded, they are my own guesses based on
>male intuition..... :)
>
>70% of Tori fans are Kate Bush fans
I haven't heard enough Kate Bush stuff to comment.
>40% of Tori fans are Patti Smith fans
Some of the Patti Smith stuff I've heard is interesting, but I haven't
heard much.
>20% of Tori fans are Liz Phair fans
I like Liz Phair a lot, so check me off there.
>15% of Tori fans are Siouxsie Sioux fans
Haven't heard enough to comment.
>5% of Tori fans are Lisa Germano fans
Ditto.
>2% of Tori fans are Exene Cervenka fans
Ditto.
>1% of Tori fans are Rasputina fans
Rasputina are good, but they're the sort of band I don't listen to all
that often, because I've always thought of them as sort of a novelty
act.
>.01% of Tori fans are Zoe Pollack fans
Haven't even heard of her before.
--
This post brought to you courtesy of the Beet Man!
fluffsterbrian
"Narnia" wrote:
[in reference to Zoe Pollack, aka just plain "Zoe", artist who recorded the
album "Hammer"]
> Do you know of a URL where I can obtain mp3s?
Sorry, no, but I'm usually the last person to know where to find music and
video file downloads of any kind (too much a low-tech luddite).
"Hammer" might be available used from a venue like Half.com, but I know it's
taking a big chance buying an artist you've never heard. It was a crime how
little RCA did to promote Zoe's CD--it's hard to find many references at all
to her on search engines now.
On an upbeat note, I'm actually happily shocked to see how many Rasputina
fans post here. :)
~Brian
Ann Shaffer
> "faeriecat" wrote:
>> "fluffsterbrian" wrote
>>
>> > 5% of Tori fans are Lisa Germano fans
>>
>> Is that the female singer from Dead Can Dance?
> No, she used to play violin for John Cougar Mellencamp, but is now a solo
> artist,
i think koren was mixing her up with lisa gerrard, who sang (sings?) with
dcd.
>> > 2% of Tori fans are Exene Cervenka fans
>>
>> Who?
> Former lead singer of the L.A. punk band X (one of the most poetic of all
> punk bands).
and also (here goes my raging inner 13 year-old) ex-wife of
actor/poet/painter viggo mortensen, bka aragorn in lord of the rings.
*swoon*
(err, i shall go back into hiding now)
--ann
--
A cat can appreciate valiant absurdity.
--Peter Beagle
*michelle*
> and also (here goes my raging inner 13 year-old) ex-wife of
> actor/poet/painter viggo mortensen, bka aragorn in lord of the rings.
> *swoon*
is it just me, or were most of the "fellowship of the ring" ruggedly
swoonable?
this picture illustrates this nicely...
http://us.imdb.com/EGallery?source=ss&group=0120737&photo=1-37339r.jpg&path=
pgallery&path_key=Bloom,+Orlando
yum...orlando bloom....mmmm...
<drools>
*michelle*
faeriecat
"Dayna Flumerfelt" <da...@ncia.net> wrote in message
news:Wuus8.90$0Y.45...@sat-news.ncia.net...
> That's actually where I first heard the song, and probably the
> reason I really enjoy listening to it. When I hear "Pissing in a
> River" I automatically associate it with the heavy emotions of
> the movie "All Over Me".
So do I. That was one intense scene, and the song was perfect for
it. I bought the soundtrack for "Pissing In A River".
Koren
faeriecat
> Well, "Northern Lad" was featured in an episode of Dawson's
> Creek.....is that official confirmation of its "skippable"
> status? :)
Now, that's just all kinds of wrong. :^o
Koren, who adores NL
faeriecat
"Kristin E. Holland" <khol...@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:a8urdr$i24$7...@netnews.upenn.edu...
> Me, I find it slow and draggy...and also sloppy singing and
> songwriting.
I completely don't get that. I thought that although the song was
obviously mushy, it did a great job of expressing the emotions
interestingly. I like the whole "when you're only wet because of the
rain" bit, and the "change like sugarcane" part. And the beautiful
howl that the last repetition of the former turns into. But then I'm a
sucker for sad love songs.
Koren
Nathan Dykman
>
> i think koren was mixing her up with lisa gerrard, who sang (sings?) with
> dcd.
Sang. They broke up. If you are DCD fan (and why not, for goodness sakes
;-), then do get the box set. It's great, and the DVD is worth the price of
the whole thing, but you get 3 great CDs too.
> > Former lead singer of the L.A. punk band X (one of the most poetic of
all
> > punk bands).
>
> and also (here goes my raging inner 13 year-old) ex-wife of
> actor/poet/painter viggo mortensen, bka aragorn in lord of the rings.
> *swoon*
Whoa. Really?
> (err, i shall go back into hiding now)
Okay. Take care and be safe. And remember, if they haven't tried to find you
after an hour or two of hide and seek, they left you there. Don't learn that
the hard way, kids!
Nathan Dykman
Nathan Dykman
<ai...@rmta.org> wrote in message news:a8u90d$2q2$2...@concertina.rmta.org...
> fluffsterbrian <fluffsterb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > <ai...@rmta.org> wrote:
> >> it's "northern lad"-skippable.
> > Well, "Northern Lad" was featured in an episode of Dawson's Creek.....is
> > that official confirmation of its "skippable" status? :)
>
> no, that has nothing to do with it. they could play an entire tori album
> on _dawson's crack_ and it wouldn't taint it for me. it's just that it's
> such a slow, sappy song. i can't take that kind of thing. like some
> people say that black sabbath or something like that makes them want to go
> and kill. well, loreena mckennit makes me want to go on an axe-murdering
> rampage. it's the slow stuff i can't take.
Thanks for the warning on the Loreena McKennit. I will have to keep that in
mind.
Don't mind the slow stuff at all, I'm
Nathan Dykman
Kristin E. Holland
: I completely don't get that. I thought that although the song was
: obviously mushy, it did a great job of expressing the emotions
: interestingly. I like the whole "when you're only wet because of the
: rain" bit, and the "change like sugarcane" part. And the beautiful
: howl that the last repetition of the former turns into. But then I'm a
: sucker for sad love songs.
Well, I"m not sure I can explain why it doesn't do it for me - and I do
find it interesting that the people I've talked to about this one either
love it or hate it. ;-) Let me see...
In "Hey Jupiter," there's the sad wailing "oo oo" stuff, and I like that a
lot. It could have sound simply melodramatic, but somehow, it just sounds
like crying set to music...but it's also sung well: her pitch is good, her
voice is open and relaxed and unaffected. For me, that's one of the key
differences between HJ and NL. NL to me sounds more artificial, a bit
strangled. You can sing sadly while still singing musically, with good
pitch and control and diction, and I think in NL, she slides just over
that edge.
In "Yes, Anastasia," similarly, there's that wonderful howl at the end -
and it's not only emotionally effective, but it's vocally skillful -
powerful and open.
Lyrically, well, I see the appeal of the individual images, but it sems
like she bounces between unconnected thoughts even more than is her usual
wont. ;-) By contrast, "Icicle" is one of my all-time favorites: it has
the usual slightly cockeyed Tori imagery...but it all makes a well-unified
package when taken as a whole. The images are developed beyond just one
line. Similarly, "Cooling" has some odd and slightly inexplicable imagery
in it, but not only are the individual images interesting, but the overall
package seems better linked and developed. NL strikes me as...unrevised,
unpolished, like she just put the thoughts down and didn't think about
them any more. (Not that this approach hasn't sometimes worked well for
her: is it Bells for Her that she did in one take, and then had to go back
and learn so she could perform it live? But even Bells for Her has a kind
of unity, as if she got it in one take preciesly because the thoughts had
been buzzing around in her head and coalescing until they were ready to
come out. And I suppose that a certain disconnectedness *could* be
deliberate, reflecting the emotion she's trying to convey...but again, I
think she does that better in songs like "Cooling" - this is cooling
faster than I can...this is cooling faster than I..." or "Cloud on my
Tongue," with its repetition and slightly dissociated feel.)
Again, some of this is personal and subjective. I'm not trying to
convince anybody to change their opinion; I'm just hoping to explain my
impressions better. De gustibus est explicandum, if not disputandum. ;-)
faeriecat
> In "Hey Jupiter," there's the sad wailing "oo oo" stuff, and I like
> that a lot. It could have sound simply melodramatic, but
> somehow, it just sounds like crying set to music...but it's also >
sung well: her pitch is good, her voice is open and relaxed and >
unaffected. For me, that's one of the key differences between
> HJ and NL. NL to me sounds more artificial, a bit strangled.
That's interesting to me. I definitely hear a difference between
the sort of vocalization in HJ as opposed to NL, but to me the latter
is more raw and powerful. The " oo oo's" in HJ are eerie and lovely;
the wailing in NL is painful sounding. To me. :)
> Lyrically, well, I see the appeal of the individual images, but it
> sems like she bounces between unconnected thoughts even
> more than is her usual wont. ;-)
I agree with you on that... although there's cake and sugarcane,
two edibles. But yeah, there's a lot of disconnection in NL, which
could be distracting.
> NL strikes me as...unrevised, unpolished, like she just put the >
thoughts down and didn't think about them any more.
*nod* Indeed. But I think it works here.
> Again, some of this is personal and subjective. I'm not trying to
> convince anybody to change their opinion; I'm just hoping to
> explain my impressions better.
Oh, I enjoy hearing what others think of my favourite Tori songs.
It's nice to get another viewpoint.
> De gustibus est explicandum, if not disputandum. ;-)
*koren feels dumb* What?
Koren
Kristin E. Holland
: > De gustibus est explicandum, if not disputandum. ;-)
: *koren feels dumb* What?
Sorry! "De gustibus non (est) disputandum" translates roughly to "about
tastes, it must not be argued" - meaning, we like what we like. Switching
to "explicandum," I was going for something like, "about tastes, it ought
to be explained - not argued." ;-)
faeriecat
> Sorry! "De gustibus non (est) disputandum" translates roughly > to
"about tastes, it must not be argued" - meaning, we like
> what we like. Switching to "explicandum," I was going for
> something like, "about tastes, it ought to be explained - not
> argued." ;-)
Ah! Thanks! Now that I know what it means, I agree.
Koren