Is D Minor a Cursed Key?
Jarl Sigurd
Kevin wrote
>OK, all I can remember is that D minor was a key invoking death,
Beethoven's 9th, Bruckner's 9th and Schumann's 9th are all in
D minor. In each case these were the last symphonies they wrote
before they died. So maybe there is something to this. Perhaps
D minor is a cursed key? Mind you Mozart, Schubert and Sibelius
all wrote their last symphony in Cmajor Maybe C is cursed as well.
If you consider that D minor is the relative of F major and F major
is the key adjacent to C major on the circle of 5ths? Maybe
those two keys are just plain evil. Did Haydn write much stuff
in D minor or C major. He enjoyed an unusually long life.
What key did Mahler write his last symphony in? What about
Shostakovich? What key was Furtwangler's 3rd Symphony in?
Jarl Sigurd
to listen to a composer who plans to avoid D minor and C major
and thus live forever, visit: http://www.mp3.com/JarlSigurd
David Cleary
: Beethoven's 9th, Bruckner's 9th and Schumann's 9th are all in
: D minor. In each case these were the last symphonies they wrote
: before they died.
Schumann wrote nine symphonies? I'm only aware of four.
Dave
Steve M.
"Jarl Sigurd" <jarls...@geocities.com> wrote in message
news:LRsr6.8521$TW.3...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
>
> Kevin wrote
>
> >OK, all I can remember is that D minor was a key invoking death,
>
> Beethoven's 9th, Bruckner's 9th and Schumann's 9th are all in
> D minor. In each case these were the last symphonies they wrote
> before they died. So maybe there is something to this. Perhaps
> D minor is a cursed key? Mind you Mozart, Schubert and Sibelius
> all wrote their last symphony in Cmajor Maybe C is cursed as well.
> If you consider that D minor is the relative of F major and F major
> is the key adjacent to C major on the circle of 5ths? Maybe
> those two keys are just plain evil. Did Haydn write much stuff
> in D minor or C major. He enjoyed an unusually long life.
> What key did Mahler write his last symphony in? What about
> Shostakovich? What key was Furtwangler's 3rd Symphony in?
>
> Jarl Sigurd
Speaking of which, I believe Mozart's requiem is in D minor? I wonder what
other requia (requiems? requii?) are in d minior, too.
--
Steve Miran
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by
the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes scared.
But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."
--Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Josh Dougherty
>
> >OK, all I can remember is that D minor was a key invoking death,
>
> Beethoven's 9th, Bruckner's 9th and Schumann's 9th are all in
> D minor. In each case these were the last symphonies they wrote
> before they died. So maybe there is something to this. Perhaps
> D minor is a cursed key? Mind you Mozart, Schubert and Sibelius
> all wrote their last symphony in Cmajor Maybe C is cursed as well.
> If you consider that D minor is the relative of F major and F major
> is the key adjacent to C major on the circle of 5ths? Maybe
> those two keys are just plain evil. Did Haydn write much stuff
> in D minor or C major. He enjoyed an unusually long life.
> What key did Mahler write his last symphony in? What about
> Shostakovich? What key was Furtwangler's 3rd Symphony in?
>
> Jarl Sigurd
>
symphony in general. I think Mahler also died soon after his 9th
symphony...which I think he actually called something else other than
"Symphony No. 9" to try to avoid the curse.
..but it didn't seem to work.
Josh
Peter T. Daniels
> No, I think the usual superstition is that the "9th symphony" is a cursed
> symphony in general. I think Mahler also died soon after his 9th
> symphony...which I think he actually called something else other than
> "Symphony No. 9" to try to avoid the curse.
> ..but it didn't seem to work.
The ninth symphony he wrote, he called Das Lied von der Erde. He then
completed another symphony, but instead of calling it "10," he forgot
why he'd skipped the number, called it "9," and died before finishing
his eleventh, which he called "10." (But he left enough materials that
several people have made performing versions, all of them worth
hearing.)
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@worldnet.att.net
notrump15-17
this opus.
"Jarl Sigurd" <jarls...@geocities.com> wrote in message
news:LRsr6.8521$TW.3...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
>
ba...@visi.com
Yes in Mahler's life time everyone was saying can you get past the 9th
symphony^_^ Of course they thought his nineth symphony was about
death I think and well Mahler soon after did die. Schubert didn't
finish the 9th^_^ he was smart whahahahaaaaaa
>
>Josh
>
>
john.fryer
Jarl Sigurd wrote:
>
> [snip]
Jaakko Mäntyjärvi
>
> (snip) I believe Mozart's requiem is in D minor? I wonder what
> other requia (requiems? requii?) are in d minior, too.
> --
The only feasible plural of 'requiem' in English is the hybrid 'requiems'.
In the phrase 'Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine' (Give them eternal
peace, O Lord), the first word is 'requies' (rest/peace), whose
accusative singular is 'requiem' -- it is the object here and therefore
takes accusative case. The accusative plural of 'requies' would be,
surprise surprise, 'requies' (if it's a regular 3rd declination noun, of
which I am not 100% certain).
Perhaps the best way to get around it would be to refer to 'requiem
settings' in the plural.
The only other Requiem in D minor that comes to mind is one by
Cherubini, who also wrote one in C minor. There's another myth debunked:
it is possible to write more than one Requiem and live to tell the tale. :-)
--
Regards,
Jaakko Mäntyjärvi
Helsinki, Finland
"Nil significat nisi oscillat. Du vap. Du vap. Du vap."
Peter Stoll
David Cleary wrote:
... and No.4, D Minor is *not* the one he wrote last. That's either No.2
(C Major) or No. 3 (E Flat Major); I don't remember which.
And then, of course, quite a few composers wrote symphonies in D minor
and didn't decease soon after - Bruckner's 3rd, e.g., is in that key, as
well as Dvorak's 7th.
I don't think that such speculations are particularly valid
Peter
Alain Naigeon
"Jaakko Mäntyjärvi" <jman...@pp.htv.fi> a écrit dans le message news:
3AAF3557...@pp.htv.fi...
> "Steve M." wrote:
> Perhaps the best way to get around it would be to refer to 'requiem
> settings' in the plural.
Good idea ; it would take a little too much time to
enjoy several eternae requies :-)
--
Most pages of "Musique renaissance" are available in English
Alain Naigeon - Strasbourg, France - anai...@free.fr
http://anaigeon.free.fr | http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/anaigeon/
Peter T. Daniels
> >No, I think the usual superstition is that the "9th symphony" is a cursed
> >symphony in general. I think Mahler also died soon after his 9th
> >symphony...which I think he actually called something else other than
> >"Symphony No. 9" to try to avoid the curse.
> >..but it didn't seem to work.
>
> Yes in Mahler's life time everyone was saying can you get past the 9th
> symphony^_^ Of course they thought his nineth symphony was about
> death I think and well Mahler soon after did die. Schubert didn't
> finish the 9th^_^ he was smart whahahahaaaaaa
Schubert finished the 9th, didn't finish the 8th, and didn't write the
7th.
Kevin
Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:23:43 +0100, Peter Stoll says...
> And then, of course, quite a few composers wrote symphonies in D minor
> and didn't decease soon after - Bruckner's 3rd, e.g., is in that key, as
> well as Dvorak's 7th.
Maybe their aunts had just died?
;-)
Kevin
Kevin
Peter T. Daniels says...
instead of the first, thus avoiding the curse? Think how many composers
would still be around to write more great music.
Kevin
Peter Stoll
Kevin wrote:
>
> Why didn't they all just cut to the chase and start with the tenth
> instead of the first, thus avoiding the curse? Think how many composers
> would still be around to write more great music.
>
>
Well, I suppose you couldn't trick fate as easily as that, just writing a symphony
and inappropriately labelling it No.10.
But it *might* work if you just dashed off 10 *very* brief and perfunctory
symphonies within a very short span of time - say, some 12 hours during which you
don't move from your desk and thus are not very likely to fall a victim to some
personal disaster (provided you still feel reasonably healthy when settling down
to your task).
Before fate realizes what you are about you might be well into the scherzo
movement of your 10th symphony and thus have defeated its malevolent impulse to
strike down nine-symphony-composers.
If, on the other hand, you felt your well-being perceptibly declining in the
course of your symphonic marathon, this should probably be taken as a hint that
fate is on the alert. Ominous rumblings in the walls around you, the sudden
approach of thunderstorms etc. should also be taken notice of. In these cases, it
might be advisable to give up and to be contented with supplying posterity only
with a limited symphonic output; the heroically minded, however, who feel the
irresisitible urge and mission to pour forth more symphonic utterances, may of
course go on and revel in anticipations of their imminent martyrdom in the cause
of great art.
Peter
Lid Squijjplinth
I imagine that these "cursed" people were "cursed" in the first place, and
wrote in Dminor because they felt better with that.
I do believe that playing in G# (or something)could have influenced them to
be happy and therefore healthy thus living a longer life.
I have been examining music philosophy though and of course everything has
it's frequency. The sun, The moon, Chocolate, A pair of tweezers and maybe
death too.
cheers
Stee :-)
Jarl Sigurd
Peter T. Daniels
>Josh Dougherty wrote:
>
>> No, I think the usual superstition is that the "9th symphony" is a cursed
>> symphony in general. I think Mahler also died soon after his 9th
>> symphony...which I think he actually called something else other than
>> "Symphony No. 9" to try to avoid the curse.
>> ..but it didn't seem to work.
>
>The ninth symphony he wrote, he called Das Lied von der Erde. He then
>completed another symphony, but instead of calling it "10," he forgot
>why he'd skipped the number, called it "9," and died before finishing
>his eleventh, which he called "10."
Bruckner seems to have outwitted the curse by not numbering
his first three symphonies. That way when he got to his 9th symphony,
it was really his 12th. But what about Shostakovich? How did he
manage to avoid the curse? Did he avoid unlucky keys like D minor
or C major?
Jarl Sigurd
to listen to a composer who is thinking of rolling back the numbers
on his symphonies, visit: http://www.mp3.com/JarlSigurd2
Jarl Sigurd
Kevin wrote in message ...
>In article <3AAF54BF...@popmail.bibliothek.uni-augsburg.de>, posted
>Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:23:43 +0100, Peter Stoll says...
>
>> And then, of course, quite a few composers wrote symphonies in D minor
>> and didn't decease soon after - Bruckner's 3rd, e.g., is in that key, as
>> well as Dvorak's 7th
Or maybe it is a combination of writing a 9th symphony and writing
it in either C Major or D minor that puts the jinx on composer.
Jarl Sigurd
to listen to a composer whose 9th symphony definitely WON'T be
in C major or D minor, visit: http://www.mp3.com/JarlSigurd
Jarl Sigurd
David Cleary wrote
>Jarl Sigurd wrote:
>
>: Beethoven's 9th, Bruckner's 9th and Schumann's 9th are all in
>: D minor. In each case these were the last symphonies they wrote
>: before they died.
>
>Schumann wrote nine symphonies? I'm only aware of four.
Sorry, typo on my part. I meant 4th. 4th symphonies seem
to have a curse associated with them as well. Consider
Schumann, Brahms......
Jarl Sigurd
to listen to a composer who doesn't intend to write his
4th symphony in D minor, http://www.mp3.com/JarlSigurd
Peter T. Daniels
>
> In article <lpNr6.9430$TW.3...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Jarl Sigurd"
> <jarls...@geocities.com> wrote:
>
> > Bruckner seems to have outwitted the curse by not numbering
> > his first three symphonies. That way when he got to his 9th symphony,
> > it was really his 12th. But what about Shostakovich? How did he
> > manage to avoid the curse? Did he avoid unlucky keys like D minor
> > or C major?
>
> theory is this: since people live longer now, the magic number has expanded
> to the next prime factor; i.e., instead of 9 (3x3), it is 15 (3x5). This
> was started by Shostakovich and continued by Petterson (#16 was originally
> a concerto, but #1 was withdrawn)
But Simpson only got to 11.
John Carter
"Jarl Sigurd" <jarls...@geocities.com> wrote in message
news:LRsr6.8521$TW.3...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
>
can is half open
As early as the 17th century certain personalities were attributed to keys,
as well as colours. There is a long discussion in the Oxford Companion I
seem to remember but I do not have a copy now.
John Carter Barsoom
>
>
Jaakko Mäntyjärvi
>
> Bruckner seems to have outwitted the curse by not numbering
> his first three symphonies. That way when he got to his 9th symphony,
> it was really his 12th. But what about Shostakovich? How did he
> manage to avoid the curse? Did he avoid unlucky keys like D minor
> or C major?
Well, since nos. 2, 3, 13 and 14 are really cantatas and nos. 11 and 12
are programmatic and hence more in the nature of multi-movement
symphonic poems, we arrive neatly at the total of nine proper symphonies
(1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 15). Of course, there is the added problem
that both nos. 5 and 12 are in D minor. But on the other hand,
Shostakovich's style was Socialist Realism, which had nothing to do with
the real world anyway...
Sonarrat Citalis
<jarls...@geocities.com> scratched into my forehead in
<LRsr6.8521$TW.3...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>:
> Perhaps D minor is a cursed key?
Rachmaninoff's last solo piano music, the Corelli variations, is in D
minor, but that's the only piano instance I can think of. Chopin and
Scriabin's last pieces both end in roughly an A flat major tonality.
I don't know enough about other composers off the top of my head to
conclude.
--
-Jeff Jones and Sonarrat.
Jaakko Mäntyjärvi
Now there's a thought: What is the frequency of Death?
John Carter
"Peter Stoll" <s...@popmail.bibliothek.uni-augsburg.de> wrote in message
news:3AAF7F6A...@popmail.bibliothek.uni-augsburg.de...
started with his 50th symphony and proceeded to number each new work
backwards, 49, 48 47 etc.Unfortunately his early works were lost in the fire
in which he perished while composing his 41st symphony.
John Carter Barsoom
Top Catt
> Lid Squijjplinth wrote:
> >
> > Hi Hi
> >
> > I imagine that these "cursed" people were "cursed" in the first place, and
> > wrote in Dminor because they felt better with that.
> > I do believe that playing in G# (or something)could have influenced them to
> > be happy and therefore healthy thus living a longer life.
> >
> > I have been examining music philosophy though and of course everything has
> > it's frequency. The sun, The moon, Chocolate, A pair of tweezers and maybe
> > death too.
>
> Now there's a thought: What is the frequency of Death?
>
>
The late William Burroughs claimed (in a collection of essays published
in the 60's), that infrasound could be lethal. The term "infrasound"
refers to frequencies below 16 Hz or so. At sufficient amplitude, these
frequencies have a negative effect on the functioning of the nervous
system, causing death. Burroughs went on to propose--as a weapon--an
infrasound machine, which he described as an enormous police whistle
mounted on a truck and powered by an airplane engine. When turned on (by
remote control, of course), the infrasound machine would kill every
living thing for miles around.
So the frequency of death must be around 12 Hz (or thereabouts).
T.C.
Alkibiades
<jman...@pp.htv.fi> wrote:
>Lid Squijjplinth wrote:
>>
>> Hi Hi
>>
>> I imagine that these "cursed" people were "cursed" in the first place, and
>> wrote in Dminor because they felt better with that.
>> I do believe that playing in G# (or something)could have influenced them to
>> be happy and therefore healthy thus living a longer life.
>>
>> I have been examining music philosophy though and of course everything has
>> it's frequency. The sun, The moon, Chocolate, A pair of tweezers and maybe
>> death too.
>
>Now there's a thought: What is the frequency of Death?
Flat line, no frequency, no peak, no trough, no wavelength, nada,
niente, nyet, nothing.
But it also occurs under uniquely dangerous "political" situations
(creative musicians flex your imaginative muscles for moment): when
there are absolute limits placed upon the peaks and troughs, and when
there is an increasing tendency to increase frequency, and thus
shorten wavelength (draw it out if you are not following, cartoon
style in several progressive images). In that case, the risk is one
of complete kakophony (consider the Greek roots), i.e., all positions
in the available tonic, harmonic, tonal, timbral, i.e., mathematical,
space being filled. This is the proverbial 'hitting of the wall', or
to shift metaphors a bit, when 'everything goes black' (the physics of
this in either case is sound).
Parmendides wrote about this in his poem, which is musical:
"Thus is becoming extinguished and passing away not to be heard of.
Nor is it divisible, since it is all alike, and there is no more of it
in one place than in another, to hinder it from holding together, nor
less of it, but everything is full of what is. Wherefore it is wholly
continuous; for what is, is in contact with what is. Moreover, it is
immovable in the bonds of mighty chains, without beginning and without
end; since coming into being and passing away have been driven afar,
and true belief has cast them away."
We could go on in this vein at length, and shall if there is any
expression of interest out here in The Wastelands.
And to my friends at and affiliated with IRCAM*, please consider this
in light of the discussion of poiesis in the short essay, The Question
Concerning Technology. It ought to be possible to expound this essay
using computer compositional techniques, but with the insertion of the
human touch.
- Alkibiades
*(Is there anyone fluent in French who might do a quick translation
and post as follow-up?)
Alkibiades
wrote:
Sounds like the device Ayn Rand describes in Atlas Shrugged. I think
Popular Science a few months ago had a blurb about this sort of device
going into production.
- Al
Steve Hehr
recall the title or author) about an inventor who was commissioned to
devise a foil for pirated movies (being shown in illicit theaters).
The solution he came up with was to add "subsonics" to the soundtrack
-- the subsonics were not heard, but they were reproduced in the sound
systems and caused patrons of the illicit theaters to get queasy, then
to panic and flee from the theaters, never to return after their
experiences. (The subsonics would be filtered out at the legal
theaters.)
Hmmm... a solution to the "Napster" problem? (Probably not...)
On Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:23:04 -0800, Top Catt <top_c...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>The late William Burroughs claimed (in a collection of essays published
Peter T. Daniels
>
> Lid Squijjplinth wrote:
> >
> > Hi Hi
> >
> > I imagine that these "cursed" people were "cursed" in the first place, and
> > wrote in Dminor because they felt better with that.
> > I do believe that playing in G# (or something)could have influenced them to
> > be happy and therefore healthy thus living a longer life.
> >
> > I have been examining music philosophy though and of course everything has
> > it's frequency. The sun, The moon, Chocolate, A pair of tweezers and maybe
> > death too.
>
> Now there's a thought: What is the frequency of Death?
100%.
Top Catt
> Jaakko Mäntyjärvi wrote:
> >
> > Now there's a thought: What is the frequency of Death?
>
> 100%.
>
LOL!
T.C.
Kay Dekker
> And does it taste like meat, or bread?
I've always assumed it tastes like chicken. Most
things do, it seems.
Kay, not into theophagy
--
"Caesar, the Zeta Reticulans having been repelled, fortified the
spaceport with walls and ditches."
Jarl Sigurd
David Ashbridge wrote
>More crap.. Keys and music are not cursed,
>but it appears that weak minds look for
>excuses in EVERYTHING
Speaking of weak minds, David, you really should
listen to more Furtwangler and Mengelberg instead
of that modern stuff you keep touting. It really might
open your mind to a more romantic way of looking
at the world. All this quasi-scientific empiricism is
so outdated for the 21st Century.
Jarl Sigurd
to listen to music that will usher in 21st century
romanticism, visit: http://www.mp3.com/JarlSigurd
Jarl Sigurd
Jeffrey Quick wrote
> My
>theory is this: since people live longer now, the magic number has expanded
>to the next prime factor; i.e., instead of 9 (3x3), it is 15 (3x5). This
>was started by Shostakovich and continued by Petterson (#16 was originally
>a concerto, but #1 was withdrawn)
My suspicion is that squared numbers are the dangeous ones. Some
composers like Brahns and Schumann only made it to 4 which is 2squared,
while others like Beethoven, Schubert, Bruckner and Mahler fell on
misfortune at 16. I guess the next unlucky numbers would be 16
which is 4 squared and 25 which is 5 squared.
Jarl Sigurd
to listen to a composer who is mindful of the dangers of
composing in D minor, http://www.mp3.com/JarlSigurd
David Ashbridge
>
> Speaking of weak minds, David, you really should
> listen to more Furtwangler and Mengelberg instead
> of that modern stuff you keep touting. It really might
> open your mind to a more romantic way of looking
> at the world. All this quasi-scientific empiricism is
> so outdated for the 21st Century.
>
recall a vast amount of my own material going on about 'modern stuff'.
For your info. my taste in classical music is wide, quite unlike yours.
It takes in the standard central European repertoire of Bach, Handel,
Purcell, Telemann, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Brahms, Wagner, Liszt,
Mussorgsky, Rimsky, Scriabin, Bruckner, Mahler, Debussy, Ravel,
Schoenberg, Elgar, Holst, Shostakovitch, Prokofiev, Strauss, Berg,
Webern and many others, the orchestral and chamber works of whom I play
professionally on a regular basis. I have wide interests in post WW2
music and feel just as easy listening and even playing when the
opportunity is there music by Boulez, Ligeti, Kurtag, Birtwistle, ETC.
as I am with Mozart. I do not see any difference enjoying Mozart Don
Giovani and Boulez Le marteau sans maitre. I have previous research
interests and still current enjoyment in Brazilian music that extends
well past Villa-Lobos to the native indiginous musics there, and
interests as well in Far Eastern music that extnds beyond the gamalam
and Debussy. I also teach this wide repertoire both as a performer and
a lecturer. Furthermore my research work dates back to the Reformation
in Europe through to the present.
Now what about YOU?????
This should not take long.
In the following order
1 Jarl Sigurd
2 Bruckner
3 joint Furtwangler
Mengleberg
4 Whatever else can be construed to the above
5 Err..
6 That's it
Two good reasons NOT to listen to Furty as composer. Its just so
miserable and depressing.
Incidentally, you never made any reply when challenged to provide proof
about your previous wild claims. Got tounge tied, did you???
kaetae
Jarl Sigurd wrote:
>
> Kevin wrote
>
> >OK, all I can remember is that D minor was a key invoking death,
>
> Beethoven's 9th, Bruckner's 9th and Schumann's 9th are all in
> D minor. In each case these were the last symphonies they wrote
> before they died. So maybe there is something to this. Perhaps
> D minor is a cursed key? Mind you Mozart, Schubert and Sibelius
> all wrote their last symphony in Cmajor Maybe C is cursed as well.
> If you consider that D minor is the relative of F major and F major
> is the key adjacent to C major on the circle of 5ths? Maybe
> those two keys are just plain evil. Did Haydn write much stuff
> in D minor or C major. He enjoyed an unusually long life.
> What key did Mahler write his last symphony in? What about
> Shostakovich? What key was Furtwangler's 3rd Symphony in?
>
> Jarl Sigurd
D minor must be cursed. Neil Young wrote Ohio in D minor.
Pt
Dr.Matt
Jeffrey Quick <j...@po.cwru.edu> wrote:
>In article <l9os6.1083$kI5....@news.itd.umich.edu>,
>fie...@login.itd.umich.edu (Dr.Matt) wrote:
>
>> In article <jaq-ya02408000R1503010959230001@news>,
>> Jeffrey Quick <j...@po.cwru.edu> wrote:
>> >In article <3AB0BE32...@brunel.ac.uk>, David Ashbridge
>> ><mus...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> > You be telling me next
>> >> transubstantiation is real.
>> >
>> >I'm not a Catholic, but I find this offensive.
>>
>> I find your offense offensive. Religion is about the spiritual, not
>> the real.
>
>I'm a Wiccan...the real IS spiritual. If a Catholic claims that this thing
>that looks like a wheat flour product is "the body of Christ", who am I to
>argue? Though it might be interesting to survey the faith of Catholics by
>comparing the visceral reactions to being told that they have a Host in
>their mouth, as opposed to having a hunk of dead human in their mouth. And
>does it taste like meat, or bread?
What a load of lies.
>I grew up Lutheran; consubstantiation is a much more elegant solution to
>the problem.
The only problem, then, is your confusion of imagination with reality.
Really, most children can see through the tooth fairy at a fairly early
age. The value of the tooth fairy as a psychological ploy to distract from
the trauma of tooth eruption isn't lessened by that, but that trauma doesn't
make the tooth fairy any more real.
The only valid meaning for "spiritual" as used by religionists is
in reference to psychological tactics based on mythologies that have
nothing to do with reality and don't pose as reality.
>
>--
>The Democrats: the next third party.
>
>"Politicians and diapers have one thing in common. They should be
>changed regularly, and for the same reason."
>-----Gerry Brooks (in the Toronto Globe & Mail)
>
--
For spammers: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields/uce.htm
My CD "Kabala": http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields/cd.html
Matt Fields DMA http://listen.to/mattaj TwelveToneToyBox http://start.at/tttb
"Is there a theorbo in the house?"
D.G. Porter
>
> In article <l9os6.1083$kI5....@news.itd.umich.edu>,
> fie...@login.itd.umich.edu (Dr.Matt) wrote:
>
> > In article <jaq-ya02408000R1503010959230001@news>,
> > Jeffrey Quick <j...@po.cwru.edu> wrote:
> > >In article <3AB0BE32...@brunel.ac.uk>, David Ashbridge
> > ><mus...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > You be telling me next
> > >> transubstantiation is real.
> > >
> > >I'm not a Catholic, but I find this offensive.
> >
> > I find your offense offensive. Religion is about the spiritual, not
> > the real.
>
> I'm a Wiccan...the real IS spiritual. If a Catholic claims that this thing
> that looks like a wheat flour product is "the body of Christ", who am I to
> argue? Though it might be interesting to survey the faith of Catholics by
> comparing the visceral reactions to being told that they have a Host in
> their mouth, as opposed to having a hunk of dead human in their mouth. And
> does it taste like meat, or bread?
How about a Host made with a little blood mixed in it, like a blood
pudding?
Or if you take two Hosts and slap them together with a little vanilla
filling in between, have you made "Hebrios"?
"Son, I want you to go down to Earth and die on the cross to save
mankind."
"That bites, Dad."
"Oh, man, here I am nailed to this trellice like a damn vine. This
really sucks! Hey Peter! I can see your hut from here!"
D.G. Porter
>
> In article <jaq-ya02408000R1503010959230001@news>,
> Jeffrey Quick <j...@po.cwru.edu> wrote:
> >In article <3AB0BE32...@brunel.ac.uk>, David Ashbridge
> ><mus...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > You be telling me next
> >> transubstantiation is real.
> >
> >I'm not a Catholic, but I find this offensive.
>
> I find your offense offensive. Religion is about the spiritual, not
> the real.
Religion is really about thinking up new ways for other people to offend
you.
Dr.Matt
Jaakko Mäntyjärvi <jman...@pp.htv.fi> wrote:
>Lid Squijjplinth wrote:
>>
>> Hi Hi
>>
>> I imagine that these "cursed" people were "cursed" in the first place, and
>> wrote in Dminor because they felt better with that.
>> I do believe that playing in G# (or something)could have influenced them to
>> be happy and therefore healthy thus living a longer life.
>>
>> I have been examining music philosophy though and of course everything has
>> it's frequency. The sun, The moon, Chocolate, A pair of tweezers and maybe
>> death too.
>
>Now there's a thought: What is the frequency of Death?
Once in a lifetime.
>
>--
>Regards,
>Jaakko Mäntyjärvi
>Helsinki, Finland
>
>"Nil significat nisi oscillat. Du vap. Du vap. Du vap."
Kay Dekker
> The late William Burroughs claimed (in a collection of essays published
> in the 60's), that infrasound could be lethal.
Yes, but he also claimed that drugged sex with naked feral
boys on powered skateboards was the bee's knees...
I don't know whether this story is apocryphal, and I can't
remember where I read it, but I remember reading of someone
who built what was effectively a very large motor-blown
whistle. The first try-out, the thechie who turned the power
on dropped dead suddenly, his internal organs jellified.
Consider also Hawkwind's _Sonic Attack_.
Kay
David Ashbridge
> No, I think the usual superstition is that the "9th symphony" is a cursed
> symphony in general. I think Mahler also died soon after his 9th
> symphony...which I think he actually called something else other than
> "Symphony No. 9" to try to avoid the curse.
> ..but it didn't seem to work.
>
More crap. What about all those composers who wrote more than 9
symphonies or less than 9 or even not at all. Shostakovitch 15 Rubbra
10 at least, Havergal Brian 32, Alan Hovahness 67, Weill 2, Martinu 6
Lizst 2 Nielsen 6 Rossini zero, Ravel zero, Debussy zero, ETC. Keys
David Ashbridge
>
> Kevin wrote
>
> >OK, all I can remember is that D minor was a key invoking death,
What superstitious rubbish. I thought this was supposed to be a serious
ng.
>
> Beethoven's 9th, Bruckner's 9th and Schumann's 9th
Schumann only wrote four complete symphonies and the numbered 4th in D
minor was the second complete one he wrote dating from 1841. For
interests sake only, Schumann did start another symphony before the
others which has become known as Zwickau after the town. Early work of
little importance however.
>In each case these were the last symphonies they wrote
> before they died.
Utter rubbish. See above. Anyway Beethoven wrote plenty more music,
most particular those last string quartets before he died, some of the
most life afimming music by any composer. Quite apart from which
Beethoven 9 ends in D major and the third movement of Bruckner 9 ends in
E major. So what ever you are saying is garbage.
> So maybe there is something to this.
No there is not, except supertition. You be telling me next
transubstantiation is real.
> D minor is a cursed key?
See above!
Mind you Mozart, Schubert and Sibelius
> all wrote their last symphony in Cmajor Maybe C is cursed as well.
What mindless tosh you write. Grow up and do some basic research. The
Jupiter is NOT Mozart's last work. Schubert never intending dying that
young and it had nothing to do with the key of his symphony. Sibelius
lived for another 30+ years after completing the 7th symphony and even
started an 8th. But the booze had got to him and he stop writing and
destroyed most of what was left. Any other composers drop off the twig
you want to make up something about??????
> If you consider that D minor is the relative of F major and F major
> is the key adjacent to C major on the circle of 5ths? Maybe
> those two keys are just plain evil.
What complete bollocks.
>Did Haydn write much stuff in D minor or C major.
> He enjoyed an unusually long life.
Looks like he wasn't affected. Must have had a pact with Old Nick.
> What key did Mahler write his last symphony in?
9th symphony D major ending in D flat
10th F sharp major
More proof there no doubt!!
> What about Shostakovich? What key was Furtwangler's 3rd Symphony in?
What does it matter. It is all irrelevant.
> to listen to a composer who plans to avoid D minor and C major
> and thus live forever, visit: http://www.mp3.com/JarlSigurd
Oh no!! All keys are cursed!!
Josh Dougherty
David Ashbridge <mus...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3AB0C03B...@brunel.ac.uk...
Hey, I didn't say it was true, I just said it was the superstition.
Josh
Top Catt
> Top Catt <top_c...@hotmail.com> writes:
> > The late William Burroughs claimed (in a collection of essays published
> > in the 60's), that infrasound could be lethal.
>
> Yes, but he also claimed that drugged sex with naked feral
> boys on powered skateboards was the bee's knees...
>
> I don't know whether this story is apocryphal, and I can't
> remember where I read it, but I remember reading of someone
> who built what was effectively a very large motor-blown
> whistle. The first try-out, the thechie who turned the power
> on dropped dead suddenly, his internal organs jellified.
>
> Consider also Hawkwind's _Sonic Attack_.
>
> Kay
>
It may be apocryphal, but that's exactly what the device is supposed to
do. As to Burroughs, "Junky" and "Naked Lunch" are both great novels; and
when he wrote factually, he was often worth reading. But I can't stomach
his later fiction (all that gay-themed sword-and-sorcery stuff... it's
pretty silly).
T.C.
Top Catt
> Jeffrey Quick wrote:
> >
> > In article <3AB0BE32...@brunel.ac.uk>, David Ashbridge
> > <mus...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > transubstantiation is real.
> >
>
> transubstantiation BOTH ludicrous and offensive
Maybe we could relate this to the Plato discussion--since
transubstantiation is really Plato's Idealism turned on its head: i.e.,
in Idealism, the forms change but the underlying substance doesn't; in
transubstantiation, the substance changes (from bread and wine to--
supposedly--the body and blood of Jesus), but their outward appearances
remain the same. I don't find this particularly offensive; it doesn't
have a thing to do with me. The ritual is taking place at religious
services that I don't attend, so how could I be offended by it? But,
ludicrous? Yes--and medieval. That said, if Catholics get some benefit
from it (or think they do), then, fine, why shouldn't they? The placebo
effect in medicine has been shown to result in cures at times, so why
shouldn't a spiritual placebo work just as well?
T.C.
David Ashbridge
>
> In article <3AB0BE32...@brunel.ac.uk>, David Ashbridge
> <mus...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > transubstantiation is real.
>
Jaakko Mäntyjärvi
> What mindless tosh you write. Grow up and do some basic research. The
> Jupiter is NOT Mozart's last work. Schubert never intending dying that
> young and it had nothing to do with the key of his symphony. Sibelius
> lived for another 30+ years after completing the 7th symphony and even
> started an 8th. But the booze had got to him and he stop writing and
> destroyed most of what was left.
Bzzt. Self-criticism, and a sense of isolation (both geographical and
artistic). After the Seventh, he produced the Tempest music and Tapiola,
which rank alongside the Seventh as his crowning achievements. Though he
released no new compositions after the late 1920s, he wrote some very
sensitive arrangements during his self-imposed silence. Although
Sibelius enjoyed a drink as much as the next man (all right, even as
much as the next three men), he was not a complete wino.
References in Sibelius's letters indicated that he had in fact completed
his Eighth Symphony; tradition has it that he eventually burned the
score. A persistent romantic legend maintains that a copy survived and
has yet to be discovered.
David Grosvenor
<seven...@hotmail.com> writes
>In article <3AAF6D...@att.net>, posted Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:06:44 GMT,
>Peter T. Daniels says...
>> ba...@visi.com wrote:
>>
>> > >No, I think the usual superstition is that the "9th symphony" is a cursed
>> > >symphony in general. I think Mahler also died soon after his 9th
>> > >symphony...which I think he actually called something else other than
>> > >"Symphony No. 9" to try to avoid the curse.
>> > >..but it didn't seem to work.
>> >
>> > symphony^_^ Of course they thought his nineth symphony was about
>> > death I think and well Mahler soon after did die. Schubert didn't
>> > finish the 9th^_^ he was smart whahahahaaaaaa
>>
>> Schubert finished the 9th, didn't finish the 8th, and didn't write the
>> 7th.
>>
>Why didn't they all just cut to the chase and start with the tenth
>instead of the first, thus avoiding the curse? Think how many composers
>would still be around to write more great music.
>
Well, I think that Schubert *did* finish his 8th. I think that he
simply wanted it to have two movements. More would be superfluous...
--
David Grosvenor
Top Catt
>
> "Jaakko Mäntyjärvi" <jman...@pp.htv.fi> wrote in message
> news:3AB002A7...@pp.htv.fi...
> > Now there's a thought: What is the frequency of Death?
>
Unless you believe the Lazarus story--he got to do it twice.
T.C.
Neal
John Sheehy
Top Catt <top_c...@hotmail.com> wrote:
... and don't forget cats. They're living on the 9th partial.
--
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
John P Sheehy <jsh...@ix.netcom.com>
><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
Dr.Matt
Jeffrey Quick <j...@po.cwru.edu> wrote:
>In article <3AB0BE32...@brunel.ac.uk>, David Ashbridge
><mus...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> transubstantiation is real.
>
I find your offense offensive. Religion is about the spiritual, not
the real.
Peter T. Daniels
> The only problem, then, is your confusion of imagination with reality.
> Really, most children can see through the tooth fairy at a fairly early
> age. The value of the tooth fairy as a psychological ploy to distract from
> the trauma of tooth eruption isn't lessened by that, but that trauma doesn't
> make the tooth fairy any more real.
>
> The only valid meaning for "spiritual" as used by religionists is
> in reference to psychological tactics based on mythologies that have
> nothing to do with reality and don't pose as reality.
Yet you write explicitly Jewish music ... are you going to deny that
Jewish spirituality does not invoke "things unseen" -- or even that
Jewish spirituality exists?
> --
> For spammers: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields/uce.htm
> My CD "Kabala": http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields/cd.html
> Matt Fields DMA http://listen.to/mattaj TwelveToneToyBox http://start.at/tttb
> "Is there a theorbo in the house?"
Dr.Matt
>Dr.Matt wrote:
>
>> The only problem, then, is your confusion of imagination with reality.
>> Really, most children can see through the tooth fairy at a fairly early
>> age. The value of the tooth fairy as a psychological ploy to distract from
>> the trauma of tooth eruption isn't lessened by that, but that trauma doesn't
>> make the tooth fairy any more real.
>>
>> The only valid meaning for "spiritual" as used by religionists is
>> in reference to psychological tactics based on mythologies that have
>> nothing to do with reality and don't pose as reality.
>
>Yet you write explicitly Jewish music ... are you going to deny that
>Jewish spirituality does not invoke "things unseen" -- or even that
>Jewish spirituality exists?
In the senses usually meant, of course I do. Judaism is an extended
family identity with a bunch of cultural symbols, including a bunch of
traditional beliefs which frankly are not shared by a majority of Jews
today. My appropriation of those symbols in my art makes the art
slightly more familiar and easier to parse, same as my use (with
written permission) of "Happy Birthday to You" in one piece.
You don't have to believe in ghosts to play the opening scenes of
Hamlet or to appreciate them, either.
As I keep saying: imagination and reality are not the same thing.
orangie
will think he's arty.
fred
--
music files at http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/224/orangie.html
orangie
fie...@login.itd.umich.edu says...
> My appropriation of those symbols in my art makes the art
> slightly more familiar and easier to parse,
>
foyers, selling your CD's. "such a nice young man. so what is this, some
special music?"!!
uiolo
Dr.Matt
Oh, so you WOULD have your father knocked off in order to study for the role
of Hamlet. Good for you.
Dr.Matt
orangie <orang...@aol.com> wrote:
>In article <C7Ls6.1129$kI5....@news.itd.umich.edu>,
>fie...@login.itd.umich.edu says...
>> My appropriation of those symbols in my art makes the art
>> slightly more familiar and easier to parse,
>>
>ttam, yu'r going to end up your life sitting a little tables in temple
>foyers, selling your CD's. "such a nice young man. so what is this, some
>special music?"!!
Oh, yeah. Right. Anyhow, I just got a tape in from a world premiere in
Moscow. Terrible audio quality, great performance.
And if it's a temple, try this one: http://www.birminghamtemple.org
I've only visited once, it was okay.
orangie
fie...@login.itd.umich.edu says...
tubby or not tubby, i'm skinny, and daddy was a shit (mine not yurz, m.).
(but, what a mess of a sentence. can you spare a comma to go between "it"
and "too"? )
fredlet
orangie
fie...@login.itd.umich.edu says...
> In article <MPG.151d22c9527d3645989eb6@news-server>,
> orangie <orang...@aol.com> wrote:
> >In article <C7Ls6.1129$kI5....@news.itd.umich.edu>,
> >fie...@login.itd.umich.edu says...
> >> My appropriation of those symbols in my art makes the art
> >> slightly more familiar and easier to parse,
> >>
> >ttam, yu'r going to end up your life sitting a little tables in temple
> >foyers, selling your CD's. "such a nice young man. so what is this, some
> >special music?"!!
>
> Oh, yeah. Right. Anyhow, I just got a tape in from a world premiere in
> Moscow. Terrible audio quality, great performance.
>
> And if it's a temple, try this one: http://www.birminghamtemple.org
> I've only visited once, it was okay.
>
players doing a rework of "summer mischief"? i think you're up to
mischief all year round.
Dr.Matt
orangie <orang...@aol.com> wrote:
>In article <qsNs6.1139$kI5....@news.itd.umich.edu>,
>fie...@login.itd.umich.edu says...
>> In article <MPG.151d22c9527d3645989eb6@news-server>,
>> orangie <orang...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >In article <C7Ls6.1129$kI5....@news.itd.umich.edu>,
>> >fie...@login.itd.umich.edu says...
>> >> My appropriation of those symbols in my art makes the art
>> >> slightly more familiar and easier to parse,
>> >>
>> >ttam, yu'r going to end up your life sitting a little tables in temple
>> >foyers, selling your CD's. "such a nice young man. so what is this, some
>> >special music?"!!
>>
>> Oh, yeah. Right. Anyhow, I just got a tape in from a world premiere in
>> Moscow. Terrible audio quality, great performance.
>>
>> And if it's a temple, try this one: http://www.birminghamtemple.org
>> I've only visited once, it was okay.
>>
>that's wonderful. this was in a tea shoppe on the ar'bat? three string
>players doing a rework of "summer mischief"? i think you're up to
>mischief all year round.
"Summer Mischief" is a harpsichord solo premiered 1996, though I have
thought of spinning off a guitar trio or a mandiolin-lute-guitar trio
from it. Premiere was of "Absinthe, Spirit of Green Dream", for
clarinet, violin and cello, by Ensemble Sorgente, in the Muscovichke
Opera Dome. They got every note right, to my great surprise, and even
got most of the feeling right. It's a funky little strictly-serial
trio, very silly but with an expressionistic edge. The audience was
evidently appreciative, but I guess the musical humor doesn't translate
well, as they didn't laugh.
Anyhow, see that temple's web site, or try this:
http:/www.shj.org
Once again, it's a group, and I'm not much of a group joiner, but it
gives you an idea how culture and religion can be separate things...
>fred
>--
>music files at http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/224/orangie.html
orangie
fie...@login.itd.umich.edu says...
> well, as they didn't laugh.
>
> Anyhow, see that temple's web site, or try this:
>
>
much anymore.
(by the way, you ever think of the shofer as an alpine-horn kind of
style? the shepherds calling to each other? maybe making music to each
other? it always bothered me that the shofer had to sound like an air-
raid siren... as though voice music was the only Music allowed.
Dr.Matt
orangie <orang...@aol.com> wrote:
>In article <HvOs6.1144$kI5....@news.itd.umich.edu>,
>fie...@login.itd.umich.edu says...
>> well, as they didn't laugh.
>>
>> Anyhow, see that temple's web site, or try this:
>>
>>
>i did. i remembered it already, as they say. can't really join groups
>much anymore.
>
>(by the way, you ever think of the shofer as an alpine-horn kind of
>style? the shepherds calling to each other? maybe making music to each
>other? it always bothered me that the shofer had to sound like an air-
>raid siren... as though voice music was the only Music allowed.
>
>fred
It's more like a lurhorn, I think, but the concept's the same.
Given the right morse code, the distant shepherd could court a young
lady on the other side of the dune, much as a Norwegian lad could
court a young lady on the other side of the fjord, or a Swiss lad
could court a young lady on the next mountain over. It's not big
and long for nothing.
orangie
fie...@login.itd.umich.edu says...
> >fred
>
> It's more like a lurhorn, I think, but the concept's the same.
> Given the right morse code, the distant shepherd could court a young
> lady on the other side of the dune, much as a Norwegian lad could
> court a young lady on the other side of the fjord, or a Swiss lad
> could court a young lady on the next mountain over. It's not big
> and long for nothing.
>
>
>
goaters. yu'v been hanging around hadessah too long. there are other
things more important then grandchildren: MUSIC!
write, write, write!
grandpa
Peter T. Daniels
>
> In article <3AB366...@att.net>, Peter T. Daniels <gram...@att.net> wrote:
> >Dr.Matt wrote:
> >
> >> The only problem, then, is your confusion of imagination with reality.
> >> Really, most children can see through the tooth fairy at a fairly early
> >> age. The value of the tooth fairy as a psychological ploy to distract from
> >> the trauma of tooth eruption isn't lessened by that, but that trauma doesn't
> >> make the tooth fairy any more real.
> >>
> >> The only valid meaning for "spiritual" as used by religionists is
> >> in reference to psychological tactics based on mythologies that have
> >> nothing to do with reality and don't pose as reality.
> >
> >Yet you write explicitly Jewish music ... are you going to deny that
> >Jewish spirituality does not invoke "things unseen" -- or even that
> >Jewish spirituality exists?
>
> In the senses usually meant, of course I do. Judaism is an extended
> family identity with a bunch of cultural symbols, including a bunch of
> traditional beliefs which frankly are not shared by a majority of Jews
> today. My appropriation of those symbols in my art makes the art
> slightly more familiar and easier to parse, same as my use (with
> written permission) of "Happy Birthday to You" in one piece.
> You don't have to believe in ghosts to play the opening scenes of
> Hamlet or to appreciate them, either.
> As I keep saying: imagination and reality are not the same thing.
Now I remember that when I first came here it was you who was arguing
that music communicates absolutely nothing. I suppose that intellectual
position is consistent with this one, but I also think you're deceiving
yourself! There's more in your music (what I've heard of it) than you
seem ready to recognize.
Robert John Guttke
>In article <HvOs6.1144$kI5....@news.itd.umich.edu>,
>fie...@login.itd.umich.edu says...
>> well, as they didn't laugh.
>>
>> Anyhow, see that temple's web site, or try this:
>>
>>
>i did. i remembered it already, as they say. can't really join groups
>much anymore.
>
>(by the way, you ever think of the shofer as an alpine-horn kind of
>style? the shepherds calling to each other? maybe making music to each
>other? it always bothered me that the shofer had to sound like an air-
>raid siren... as though voice music was the only Music allowed.
>
>fred
Fred, joy of my life, are you aware that your SHIFT key is broken?
(and there's a pretty solid chance
something else may have snapped,
too <wink-wink>)
~~~Subi dura a rudibus~~~
Robert John Guttke Photography
www.guttke.com
Robert John Guttke
>In article <ccQs6.1147$kI5....@news.itd.umich.edu>,
>fie...@login.itd.umich.edu says...
>> >fred
>>
>> It's more like a lurhorn, I think, but the concept's the same.
>> Given the right morse code, the distant shepherd could court a young
>> lady on the other side of the dune, much as a Norwegian lad could
>> court a young lady on the other side of the fjord, or a Swiss lad
>> could court a young lady on the next mountain over. It's not big
>> and long for nothing.
>>
>>
>>
>court-snort. they cud have invented music together, all them sheepers and
>goaters. yu'v been hanging around hadessah too long. there are other
>things more important then grandchildren: MUSIC!
>
>write, write, write!
Spell, Spell, Spell!!
Top Catt
says...
> On Sat, 17 Mar 2001 23:15:18 GMT, orangie <orang...@aol.com> wrote:
[snip]
> >court-snort. they cud have invented music together, all them sheepers and
> >goaters. yu'v been hanging around hadessah too long. there are other
> >things more important then grandchildren: MUSIC!
> >
> >write, write, write!
>
>
> Spell, Spell, Spell!!
It does no good to scold orangie--I'm convinced that he's aiming for some
new level of "artistic" unintelligibility. Sixty years after "Finnegans
Wake," he seems to think that out-Joycing Joyce is a worthwhile project.
Don't ask me why--but I predict that his posts are soon going to read
something like, "kgfjdffu fuys itiutde jastroasj bfektehhjs'd jfjd ohjud
hdhysghif! ggzxuigr johzhd wpfyfyogde jrvo hddfgfs rfhy1!"
...at which point, he'll either be taken for a great genius, or a senile
Welshman.
T.C.
Dr.Matt
I deliberately compose patterns which I suppose will engage the
listener's imagination. But again, the meaning is still in the
listener's imagination, not in the music. You're quite right that the
position is consistent. And I recognize exactly what's in my music:
patterns of sound onto which you can project all sorts of meanings,
even contradictory meanings for different listeners and different
listenings. By recognizing the difference between the music itself and
the listener's projections, I'm not misrepresenting anything.
In "Understanding Comics", Scott McCloud makes a related point:
protagonists in comics are conventionally drawn in extremely stylized,
abstract--almost geometrical--forms which just barely have a distinct
identity, while antagonists in the same strips are often drawn in
great detail (Dondi, Little Orphan Annie, and Dick Tracie spring to
mind as cases in point). Why? Readers like to imagine themselves as
the protagonist, and if the protagonist isn't cluttered with personal
details that might not match a reader, the projection is an easier
stretch of the imagination. It's easier for a kid to imagine being
Nancy or Charlie Brown than Crusty the Clown, specifically because of
all the information the artist __suppresses__ about Nancy or Charlie
Brown.
Music doesn't have to have characters in it at all. The listener can
supply their own dramatis personae, script and all.
Dr.Matt
orangie
you arn't really literate enough to read what i post. i don't post for
grade 16 bs boys. all the ladies and gentlemen have killfiled me long
ago. why not join them? then i won't have to be looking over my shoulder,
thinking i should have dumbed down my post.
contribute to the encouragement of high class culture. only read mr.
porter's posts.
(skorpios!!)
fred
orangie
top_c...@hotmail.com says...
>
>
> It does no good to scold orangie--I'm convinced that he's aiming for some
> new level of "artistic" unintelligibility. Sixty years after "Finnegans
> Wake," he seems to think that out-Joycing Joyce is a worthwhile project.
> Don't ask me why--but I predict that his posts are soon going to read
> something like, "kgfjdffu fuys itiutde jastroasj bfektehhjs'd jfjd ohjud
> hdhysghif! ggzxuigr johzhd wpfyfyogde jrvo hddfgfs rfhy1!"
>
> ...at which point, he'll either be taken for a great genius, or a senile
> Welshman.
>
> T.C.
>
>
get a joke...
it hurts me, but i think ye may not have wot it takes to read me
corructly. i don't doubt you've given a fine evening or two over to the
Wake, you understand. tha book is a fine one for lifting yurself a bit
higher to the keys. ask yur mam to fashion a cooshun for your soft
behind, ye won't stand up with mr joyce imprinted on't.
sinceringly,
fred
orangie
fie...@login.itd.umich.edu says...
> In article <MPG.151dc66e7...@news.flashcom.net>,
> Top Catt <top_c...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >In article <3ab41baa...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>, gut...@juno.com
> >says...
> >> On Sat, 17 Mar 2001 23:15:18 GMT, orangie <orang...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> >> >court-snort. they cud have invented music together, all them sheepers and
> >> >goaters. yu'v been hanging around hadessah too long. there are other
> >> >things more important then grandchildren: MUSIC!
> >> >
> >> >write, write, write!
> >>
> >>
> >> Spell, Spell, Spell!!
> >
> >
> >It does no good to scold orangie--I'm convinced that he's aiming for some
> >new level of "artistic" unintelligibility. Sixty years after "Finnegans
> >Wake," he seems to think that out-Joycing Joyce is a worthwhile project.
> >Don't ask me why--but I predict that his posts are soon going to read
> >something like, "kgfjdffu fuys itiutde jastroasj bfektehhjs'd jfjd ohjud
> >hdhysghif! ggzxuigr johzhd wpfyfyogde jrvo hddfgfs rfhy1!"
> >
> >...at which point, he'll either be taken for a great genius, or a senile
> >Welshman.
>
> Or maybe a hipcrime newsagent.
>
>
>
perplexed in pstov.
Robert John Guttke
wrote:
Well, at the very least, a magic dwarf with a nasal problem......
(ps. pulled out my Rosetta Stone and what
you just wrote qualifies you for a washing out
of the mouth with soap by your mother)
Top Catt
says...
Sin searingly, I think that you're a rather tiresome individual, and when
you write in your "messy" manner, it's not very informative
or entertaining (although that's what you seem to want--to be an
entertainer). Why don't you try writing clear, standard English, in such
a way so that you might be understood by a majority of the people
participating in a newsgroup? To take two musical models of clear
discourse, Haydn and Bach might suffice. Especially the former--listening
to (or playing) Haydn's piano sonatas might improve your concentration.
If *anything* could...
T.C.
orangie
top_c...@hotmail.com says...
>
> Sin searingly, I think that you're a rather tiresome individual, and when
> you write in your "messy" manner, it's not very informative
> or entertaining (although that's what you seem to want--to be an
> entertainer). Why don't you try writing clear, standard English, in such
> a way so that you might be understood by a majority of the people
> participating in a newsgroup? To take two musical models of clear
> discourse, Haydn and Bach might suffice. Especially the former--listening
> to (or playing) Haydn's piano sonatas might improve your concentration.
> If *anything* could...
>
>
i'm not writing for you. again... put me on your kill file, or don't read
my posts. the haydn sonatas i know by heart. the bach fills my head all
day long. these things are music. you shouldn't be using them as
doorknobs. i don't think you really understand what music is. there's
probably no reason for you to. and there's not much i can really say to
you, or even have to say to you, that would help you understand music.
you don't need to read my stuff.
it would be sort of fun to analyse your post for language structure. i'm
good at analysing things. if you had known how to read my posts, you
would have seen that they all involve an analysis. my model is Karl
Krauss. even this post-reply is an analysis of what i think you think
like (not a model, but a mapping onto your opinion). i wonder if you can
really understand that.
but, you wouldn't really be able to understand the kind of things i'd be
talking about. i'm trying to make word-language resemble music language.
you have to really like music more than anything else to want to do
something like this. i wonder if you've ever really wondered what it was
that was happening to you when you listened to music? i mean, i can't
imagine you even conceiving of that concept without immediately thinking
you think i must be on drugs or something. can you imagine that there are
people reading you thinking that you must not be very smart, must not
have read much literature, and that your music creation must also reflect
this emptyness between the eyes? and anyway, you're a composer, right? so
why are you treating music people like we were all supposed to ride
around in your chevy, cruising for chicks and saying stupid things? i
give you the benefit of the doubt: i assume you're smarter than i am (you
arn't sounding like it. do you have a cold?). i think maybe you know
something about how music is invented. i think maybe you think it was
invented for you.
i post messages as probes into my own thoughts and for the thoughts of
others. i'm not for you... this is magic special theatre, not for
everyone. dog gone-it, i'm just not writing for people like you and
jerry. my writing is the only way i can find out if anyone is gonna write
back.
dude. next time you're relaxing with keith jurket's Bach, just listen to
how he talks to you; how he would totally understand where you're coming
from: you're just trying to get it together...
marahhhahhhahhaha..
go have another cool one.
fred
Dr.Matt
This is an interesting twist. In my limited memory, only A l b e r t
S i l v e r m a n has repeatedly asked to be killfiled like this in
music newsgroups.
David Olen Baird
wrote:
>Sin searingly, I think that you're a rather tiresome individual, and when
>you write in your "messy" manner, it's not very informative
>or entertaining (although that's what you seem to want--to be an
>entertainer). Why don't you try writing clear, standard English, in such
>a way so that you might be understood by a majority of the people
>participating in a newsgroup? To take two musical models of clear
>discourse, Haydn and Bach might suffice. Especially the former--listening
>to (or playing) Haydn's piano sonatas might improve your concentration.
>If *anything* could...
I think better comparisons for orangie's posting style might be
Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, or maybe best of all - Ornette Coleman.
>
>T.C.
---
David Olen Baird, Composer
mailto:davb...@tfs.net
vist the Garden Suite page at:
http://www.tfs.net/~davbaird/tgs.htm
John Harrington
An argument between top cat and orangie? Hey, fellas, I hate to break it to
you, but I've always thought you were the same guy with two email aliases,
the lower case being just a ruse.
John
David Olen Baird
wrote:
> Premiere was of "Absinthe, Spirit of Green Dream", for
>clarinet, violin and cello, by Ensemble Sorgente, in the Muscovichke
>Opera Dome. They got every note right, to my great surprise, and even
>got most of the feeling right. It's a funky little strictly-serial
>trio, very silly but with an expressionistic edge. The audience was
>evidently appreciative, but I guess the musical humor doesn't translate
>well, as they didn't laugh.
Excellent! Too bad about the quality of the audio recording. How
were the players introduced to you and your music? Inet?
David Olen Baird
wrote:
>
>And if it's a temple, try this one: http://www.birminghamtemple.org
>I've only visited once, it was okay.
>--
So, what does it mean to be "independent of supernatural authority"?
Is there a lot of determinism in more traditional Judaism?
David Olen Baird
wrote:
>
>
>Fred, joy of my life, are you aware that your SHIFT key is broken?
>
> (and there's a pretty solid chance
> something else may have snapped,
> too <wink-wink>)
>
He's a composer. You should expect him to be sane? I don't think so.
John Harrington
fie...@login.itd.umich.edu wrote on 3/18/01 4:12 AM:
> In article <MPG.151dc3346f35de76989ecf@news-server>,
> orangie <orang...@aol.com> wrote:
>> mr. catt, please add me to your kill file.
>
> This is an interesting twist. In my limited memory, only A l b e r t
> S i l v e r m a n has repeatedly asked to be killfiled like this in
> music newsgroups.
Huh, that's funny. In my experience, you beg to be killfiled quite
routinely, though not in so many words.
John
Top Catt
fie...@login.itd.umich.edu says...
> In article <MPG.151dc3346f35de76989ecf@news-server>,
> orangie <orang...@aol.com> wrote:
> >mr. catt, please add me to your kill file.
>
> This is an interesting twist. In my limited memory, only A l b e r t
> S i l v e r m a n has repeatedly asked to be killfiled like this in
> music newsgroups.
>
Well, if that's what he wants--I'm not above a little joking myself, but
when each post becomes more, uh, "playfully unintelligible" than the
last, the killfile really is a good idea. BTW, my newsreader (Gravity)
calls its killfile the "bozo bin." I wonder why... ;)
T.C.
David Olen Baird
wrote:
>In article <oC1t6.1176$kI5....@news.itd.umich.edu>,
It's a little more polite than kill file, I suppose. I'd rather be
binned than killed.
>
>T.C.
Alkibiades
wrote:
>In article <MPG.151dc3346f35de76989ecf@news-server>, orang...@aol.com
This morning I traveled through the less-frequented parts of the city,
with my ear alert for the rough musics of the others. I have been
rewarded for my efforts. A most unusual combination of musics was
present at Dunkin Donuts. What amazed and delighted me was the manner
in which, as on opening night, the various performers picked up their
playing and imbued it with real zest as new themes entered the hall.
Like Michael Douglass says at the end of Traffic, I was there to
listen.
Orangie Mike needs no defense from me. What does, in my opinion,
however, is the idea in question: that of keeping one's ears open.
Is Orangie seeking only to be artistically unique? That may well be
the case, but if it is so, it is a phenomenon derivative.
Concentration is easy when it is on a thing long familiar and thought
understood comfortably. Hayden's sonatas sound now, no doubt, much
differently than they would have to an ear of his day. They probably
stirred people and created confusion. So they were not viewed as
clear and standard forms of musical expression. Compare his work to
any of the Italians then in vogue, say his sonata in G major. The
beautiful and eerie pauses, pregnant with meaning, still have the
power to stir. Yet they did not have the running, brilliant fluidity
of what we call the baroque, and this absence would have struck the
listener as quite odd, if he did not stop his ears and made the effort
to listen. Yes, listening requires effort, if it is not to be, as in
the case of Hamlet's father, the pouring in of poison*.
- Alkibiades
* pharmakon
whi...@flash.net
Baird) wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 08:01:47 -0800, Top Catt <top_c...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <oC1t6.1176$kI5....@news.itd.umich.edu>,
> >fie...@login.itd.umich.edu says...
> >> In article <MPG.151dc3346f35de76989ecf@news-server>,
> >> orangie <orang...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >mr. catt, please add me to your kill file.
> >>
> >> This is an interesting twist. In my limited memory, only A l b e r t
> >> S i l v e r m a n has repeatedly asked to be killfiled like this in
> >> music newsgroups.
> >>
> >
> >Well, if that's what he wants--I'm not above a little joking myself, but
> >when each post becomes more, uh, "playfully unintelligible" than the
> >last, the killfile really is a good idea. BTW, my newsreader (Gravity)
> >calls its killfile the "bozo bin." I wonder why... ;)
>
> It's a little more polite than kill file, I suppose. I'd rather be
> binned than killed.
As in "has-binned?" ;-)
--
Hear Linda Ronstadt sing Richard White on
ŚA Merry Little Christmasą Elektra #62572-2/4
CDs: ŚMusic for Guitarą and ŚMusic for Woodwinds and Piano'
available at: http://www.mp3.com/richardwhite
http://listen.to/richardwhite whi...@flash.net
Robert John Guttke
DUMBED DOWN YOUR POST? Pumpkin, you do that already with everything
you write. Have you ever heard: language is power? I applaud you for
being a strong individual and expressing yourself thusly- but don't
expect the rest of the world to comprehend the incomprehensible....
unless that's what you are reaching for with YUR posts........
(curtsy)
Top Catt
bear...@earthlink.net says...
Now I've heard everything...
T.C.
David Olen Baird
>In article <3ab4dd83...@news.birch.net>, davb...@tfs.net (David Olen
>Baird) wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 08:01:47 -0800, Top Catt <top_c...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <oC1t6.1176$kI5....@news.itd.umich.edu>,
>> >fie...@login.itd.umich.edu says...
>> >> In article <MPG.151dc3346f35de76989ecf@news-server>,
>> >> orangie <orang...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >> >mr. catt, please add me to your kill file.
>> >>
>> >> This is an interesting twist. In my limited memory, only A l b e r t
>> >> S i l v e r m a n has repeatedly asked to be killfiled like this in
>> >> music newsgroups.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Well, if that's what he wants--I'm not above a little joking myself, but
>> >when each post becomes more, uh, "playfully unintelligible" than the
>> >last, the killfile really is a good idea. BTW, my newsreader (Gravity)
>> >calls its killfile the "bozo bin." I wonder why... ;)
>>
>> It's a little more polite than kill file, I suppose. I'd rather be
>> binned than killed.
>
>As in "has-binned?" ;-)
Hmm. Now that you put it that way, maybe it would be more romantic to
be kill filed by my lover than has binned. :)
>--
>Hear Linda Ronstadt sing Richard White on
>ŚA Merry Little Christmasą Elektra #62572-2/4
>CDs: ŚMusic for Guitarą and ŚMusic for Woodwinds and Piano'
>available at: http://www.mp3.com/richardwhite
>http://listen.to/richardwhite whi...@flash.net
---
Dr.Matt
Dr.Matt
David Olen Baird <davb...@tfs.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 08:01:47 -0800, Top Catt <top_c...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>In article <oC1t6.1176$kI5....@news.itd.umich.edu>,
>>fie...@login.itd.umich.edu says...
>>> In article <MPG.151dc3346f35de76989ecf@news-server>,
>>> orangie <orang...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> >mr. catt, please add me to your kill file.
>>>
>>> This is an interesting twist. In my limited memory, only A l b e r t
>>> S i l v e r m a n has repeatedly asked to be killfiled like this in
>>> music newsgroups.
>>>
>>
>>Well, if that's what he wants--I'm not above a little joking myself, but
>>when each post becomes more, uh, "playfully unintelligible" than the
>>last, the killfile really is a good idea. BTW, my newsreader (Gravity)
>>calls its killfile the "bozo bin." I wonder why... ;)
>
>It's a little more polite than kill file, I suppose. I'd rather be
>binned than killed.
Actually, kilts are probably comfortable.
Dr.Matt
>wrote:
>
>
>>
>>And if it's a temple, try this one: http://www.birminghamtemple.org
>>I've only visited once, it was okay.
>>--
>So, what does it mean to be "independent of supernatural authority"?
>Is there a lot of determinism in more traditional Judaism?
Yes and no. Traditional Jewish religion, like many religions, is full
of logical contradictions. The best-known Jewish mystical tradition,
Qabala, resolves the contradictions by dispensing with Occam's razor
and exponentiating the amount of nonsense.
Dr.Matt
Dr.Matt
>wrote:
>
>> Premiere was of "Absinthe, Spirit of Green Dream", for
>>clarinet, violin and cello, by Ensemble Sorgente, in the Muscovichke
>>Opera Dome. They got every note right, to my great surprise, and even
>>got most of the feeling right. It's a funky little strictly-serial
>>trio, very silly but with an expressionistic edge. The audience was
>>evidently appreciative, but I guess the musical humor doesn't translate
>>well, as they didn't laugh.
>
>Excellent! Too bad about the quality of the audio recording. How
>were the players introduced to you and your music? Inet?
Actually, I believe they were contracted by the Armenian Contemporary
Music Center in Yerevan, which advertised for American works in the
American Music Center Opportunity Update a few years ago.
orangie
> orangie <orang...@aol.com> wrote:
> >mr. catt, please add me to your kill file.
>
> This is an interesting twist. In my limited memory, only A l b e r t
> S i l v e r m a n has repeatedly asked to be killfiled like this in
> music newsgroups.
>
fred
orangie
top_c...@hotmail.com says...
sort of the last sex act of the sexless. but again, "top catt", i'm sorry
you can't understand my writing; though, on the other hand, knowing that
i don't have to dumb down my posts is a relief.
thanks,
fred
orangie
60's; but coleman had a nice solid inspiration and a fine tone.
fred
orangie
frex