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300 Greatest Rock Songs
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The Bloomfield Buddy
Aug 7, 2012, 6:21:17 PM8/7/12
to
We just did a revision of the site's "Greatest Rock Songs" list. It
was long overdue, as there was not even any hip hop on the old list.
http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_songsddd.html
It will be expanding to a top 500 early in 2013, with probably an
additional 30 songs from the 50s and about 40 more each from the 60s
and 70s.
Mike should like this entry:
216. Sh-Boom - Chords / Crew Cuts
As we conceded that the Crew Cuts version does have SOME validity as a
"rock" record by listing it alongside the Chords version.
was long overdue, as there was not even any hip hop on the old list.
http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_songsddd.html
It will be expanding to a top 500 early in 2013, with probably an
additional 30 songs from the 50s and about 40 more each from the 60s
and 70s.
Mike should like this entry:
216. Sh-Boom - Chords / Crew Cuts
As we conceded that the Crew Cuts version does have SOME validity as a
"rock" record by listing it alongside the Chords version.
Travis_Trite
Aug 7, 2012, 7:27:44 PM8/7/12
to
"The Bloomfield Buddy" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:dd4317a0-6aec-4b01...@f2g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
The Bloomfield Bloviator
Aug 7, 2012, 11:17:20 PM8/7/12
to
On Aug 7, 7:27 pm, "Travis_Trite" <Travis_Tr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "The Bloomfield Buddy" <Savo...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:dd4317a0-6aec-4b01...@f2g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
Of course.
Here are the artist totals for every act with three or more songs.
Beatles - 12
Elvis - 8
Rolling Stones - 6
Chuck Berry - 5
Led Zeppelin - 5
The Who - 5
Beach Boys - 4
Marvin Gaye - 4
Temptations - 4
James Brown - 3
CCR - 3
Bob Dylan - 3
Jackson 5 / Michael Jackson - 3
Kinks - 3
Little Richard - 3
Pink Floyd - 3
Queen - 3
Bruce Springsteen - 3
U2 - 3
You may only see 11 for the Beatles right now, but they are being
added as a second artist on "Rock And Roll Music" at #118.
> "The Bloomfield Buddy" <Savo...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:dd4317a0-6aec-4b01...@f2g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
Here are the artist totals for every act with three or more songs.
Beatles - 12
Elvis - 8
Rolling Stones - 6
Chuck Berry - 5
Led Zeppelin - 5
The Who - 5
Beach Boys - 4
Marvin Gaye - 4
Temptations - 4
James Brown - 3
CCR - 3
Bob Dylan - 3
Jackson 5 / Michael Jackson - 3
Kinks - 3
Little Richard - 3
Pink Floyd - 3
Queen - 3
Bruce Springsteen - 3
U2 - 3
You may only see 11 for the Beatles right now, but they are being
added as a second artist on "Rock And Roll Music" at #118.
Message has been deleted
The Bloomfield Bloviator
Aug 8, 2012, 2:43:17 AM8/8/12
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On Aug 8, 12:02 am, poisoned rose <pro...@poisonedrose.com> wrote:
> "record-making"? That makes more of the choices harder to swallow for me.
>
> And what determines whether multiple artists are listed for a song or
> not?
It's not about songwriting at all. There's 5 songs in the top ten that
were not written by the act that did the song.
If you want to know the answer to your other question, read the list's
criteria.
> The Bloomfield Bloviator <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > You may only see 11 for the Beatles right now, but they are being
> > added as a second artist on "Rock And Roll Music" at #118.
>
> So this really is a list about "songwriting" rather than
>
> > You may only see 11 for the Beatles right now, but they are being
> > added as a second artist on "Rock And Roll Music" at #118.
>
> "record-making"? That makes more of the choices harder to swallow for me.
>
> And what determines whether multiple artists are listed for a song or
> not?
It's not about songwriting at all. There's 5 songs in the top ten that
were not written by the act that did the song.
If you want to know the answer to your other question, read the list's
criteria.
The Bloomfield Bloviator
Aug 8, 2012, 3:01:28 AM8/8/12
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On Aug 8, 12:02 am, poisoned rose <pro...@poisonedrose.com> wrote:
> The Bloomfield Bloviator <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> The Bloomfield Bloviator <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > You may only see 11 for the Beatles right now, but they are being
> > added as a second artist on "Rock And Roll Music" at #118.
>
> > added as a second artist on "Rock And Roll Music" at #118.
>
> So this really is a list about "songwriting" rather than
> "record-making"?
I'm trying to figure out why you said this.
> "record-making"?
Are you saying that the Beatles version of "Rock And Roll Music" is
objectively more historically signicant than the Chuck Berry version?
The Berry is must better acclaimed by critics, and it's #128 on the
Rolling Stone Top 500 while the Beatles is not on the list at all. The
Berry is also on the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame 500 essential songs
list, the Beatles is not.
The Berry was a top ten single, the Beatles just an album track in the
US and UK.
There's no part of the criteria where the Beatles version would beat
the Berry version, but it is significant enough to be listed IMO. It
was a single in many countries, and was a hit in a few of them,
including being huge in Japan.
Which version you or I think is better is totally irrelevant to the
criteria of the list. That's just personal taste. I prefer the Berry
(a 10), but I like the Beatles version a lot (an 8) and it's probably
their 2nd best remake IMO, after "Twist And Shout (a 9)," which is on
the list by them with the Isley Brothers as the 2nd artist (neither is
the original version of the song).
Message has been deleted
The Bloomfield Bloviator
Aug 8, 2012, 3:34:24 AM8/8/12
to
On Aug 8, 3:16 am, poisoned rose <pro...@poisonedrose.com> wrote:
> The Bloomfield Bloviator <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Are you saying that the Beatles version of "Rock And Roll Music" is
> > objectively more historically signicant than the Chuck Berry version?
>
> God, your white/black obsession really is incredible. You just LEAP for
> The Bloomfield Bloviator <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Are you saying that the Beatles version of "Rock And Roll Music" is
> > objectively more historically signicant than the Chuck Berry version?
>
> it.
That had nothing to do with it. We list the (White) Beatles version of
"Twist And Shout" ahead of the (Black) Isley Brothers version.
> My point is that you're listing multiple artists under one song. Thus,
> you're rating the composition rather than whoever recorded it.
Not at all. We're recognizing the instances when there are two or more
versions of a song that are vfairly equal in historical stature.
> If you
> were judging "recordings" rather than "songs," you would allow the
> possibility of having the same song listed more than once.
Not necesarrily. It's mainly the top version that determines the songs
ranking, but listing more than one version together is mainly done to
save slots. Instead of having to take up two slots with "Walk This
Way" or "You Really Got Me" we list them together and then have room
for another song somewhere down the line. The person reading the list
can decide which version he prefers.
One entry for
> Eddie Cochran/Summertime Blues and another entry for Blue
> Cheer/Summertime Blues. Or whatever.
>
> > Which version you or I think is better is totally irrelevant to the
> > criteria of the list. That's just personal taste. I prefer the Berry
> > (a 10), but I like the Beatles version a lot (an 8) and it's probably
> > their 2nd best remake IMO, after "Twist And Shout (a 9)," which is on
> > the list by them with the Isley Brothers as the 2nd artist (neither is
> > the original version of the song).
>
> Apologies, but I really don't give a darn about the "scale of 1 to 10"
> > Which version you or I think is better is totally irrelevant to the
> > criteria of the list. That's just personal taste. I prefer the Berry
> > (a 10), but I like the Beatles version a lot (an 8) and it's probably
> > their 2nd best remake IMO, after "Twist And Shout (a 9)," which is on
> > the list by them with the Isley Brothers as the 2nd artist (neither is
> > the original version of the song).
>
> ratings you assign to songs. Just say you like the Berry version a
> little better and leave it at that.
I don't give a shit that you don't gove a damn, and I will continue to
express my opinion of the songs in the way that I want to.
What makes you think that you can tell somebody to "Just say you like
the Berry version a little better and leave it at that." and that the
person will comply with your commands?
And I like it "a lot" better. When their ratings are two numbers apart
(10, 8) that's a lot, not a little.
Message has been deleted
The Bloomfield Bloviator
Aug 8, 2012, 3:55:45 AM8/8/12
to
On Aug 8, 3:50 am, poisoned rose <pro...@poisonedrose.com> wrote:
> The Bloomfield Bloviator <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Are you saying that the Beatles version of "Rock And Roll Music" is
> > > > objectively more historically signicant than the Chuck Berry version?
>
> > > God, your white/black obsession really is incredible. You just LEAP for
> > > it.
>
> > That had nothing to do with it. We list the (White) Beatles version of
> > "Twist And Shout" ahead of the (Black) Isley Brothers version.
>
> You were obviously leaping to condemn me for liking white Beatles over
> The Bloomfield Bloviator <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Are you saying that the Beatles version of "Rock And Roll Music" is
> > > > objectively more historically signicant than the Chuck Berry version?
>
> > > God, your white/black obsession really is incredible. You just LEAP for
> > > it.
>
> > That had nothing to do with it. We list the (White) Beatles version of
> > "Twist And Shout" ahead of the (Black) Isley Brothers version.
>
> black Berry. Come on, you know this.
>
> > > If you
> > > were judging "recordings" rather than "songs," you would allow the
> > > possibility of having the same song listed more than once.
>
> > Not necesarrily. It's mainly the top version that determines the songs
> > ranking, but listing more than one version together is mainly done to
> > save slots. Instead of having to take up two slots with "Walk This
> > Way" or "You Really Got Me" we list them together and then have room
> > for another song somewhere down the line. The person reading the list
> > can decide which version he prefers.
>
> OK. I really don't agree with that tactic, unless the list is stated to
> > > If you
> > > were judging "recordings" rather than "songs," you would allow the
> > > possibility of having the same song listed more than once.
>
> > Not necesarrily. It's mainly the top version that determines the songs
> > ranking, but listing more than one version together is mainly done to
> > save slots. Instead of having to take up two slots with "Walk This
> > Way" or "You Really Got Me" we list them together and then have room
> > for another song somewhere down the line. The person reading the list
> > can decide which version he prefers.
>
> be about "songs" instead of "recordings."
>
> > And I like it "a lot" better. When their ratings are two numbers apart
> > (10, 8) that's a lot, not a little.
>
> But it's a meaningless comment. No one knows why you feel that way.
> > And I like it "a lot" better. When their ratings are two numbers apart
> > (10, 8) that's a lot, not a little.
>
How does saying "I like it a little better" let someone know why more
than saying one's a 10 and one's an 8? I'm giving them more precise
information my way.
Do you also have a problem with the 4 star rating system used for
movies?
Maybe you should write Leonard Maltin and tell him to stop rating
movies by stars and instead just say if it's bad, fair, good or great.
> When someone in real life asks how you're feeling, do you answer "7"?
Relevance?
Message has been deleted
The Bloomfield Bloviator
Aug 8, 2012, 4:12:04 AM8/8/12
to
On Aug 8, 4:05 am, poisoned rose <pro...@poisonedrose.com> wrote:
> The Bloomfield Bloviator <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > And I like it "a lot" better. When their ratings are two numbers apart
> > > > (10, 8) that's a lot, not a little.
>
> > > But it's a meaningless comment. No one knows why you feel that way.
>
> > How does saying "I like it a little better" let someone know why more
> > than saying one's a 10 and one's an 8? I'm giving them more precise
> > information my way.
>
> It's not precise information. It just pretends to be.
> The Bloomfield Bloviator <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > And I like it "a lot" better. When their ratings are two numbers apart
> > > > (10, 8) that's a lot, not a little.
>
> > > But it's a meaningless comment. No one knows why you feel that way.
>
> > How does saying "I like it a little better" let someone know why more
> > than saying one's a 10 and one's an 8? I'm giving them more precise
> > information my way.
>
>
> You don't like every "10" song 20% more than every "8" song.
I see you're shit at math. A "10" is 25% higher than an "8"
And it doesn't work that way. The 1 through 10 are just convenient
symbols.
If the fact that they are numbers confuses you, just pretend that they
are A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H-I-J instead.
> > Do you also have a problem with the 4 star rating system used for
> > movies?
>
> "How many stars would you give it?" I'd ask what he/she thought of it.
> And hopefully he would make an observation about the story, acting,
> cinematography and/or direction.
Are you going to write Maltin and tell him to get rid of the stars?
Message has been deleted
The Bloomfield Bloviator
Aug 8, 2012, 4:39:10 AM8/8/12
to
> star ratings?
Who said that?
I'm saying that since that part of it is useless, according to you,
you should try and get him to eliminate it from the books.
Travis_Trite
Aug 8, 2012, 12:13:20 PM8/8/12
to
> >
> > Would it be alright if I posted the list here, sorted by artist?
>
> Of course.
Wanted to have it so the rank column appeared aligned on right, but pasting
> > Would it be alright if I posted the list here, sorted by artist?
>
> Of course.
text in which it works that way, into my Outlook Express, does this to the
right column
Artist(s) / Song DDD rank
2Pac / California Love 185
ABBA / Dancing Queen 142
AC/DC / You Shook Me All Night Long 93
Aerosmith / Run-D.M.C. / Walk This Way 56
Aerosmith / Dream On 114
Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul Sonic Force / Planet Rock 153
Al Green / Let's Stay Together 31
Alanis Morissette / You Oughta Know 214
Animals / House Of The Rising Sun 79
Aretha Franklin / Respect 2
Bachman-Turner Overdrive / You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet 260
Beach Boys / Good Vibrations 12
Beach Boys / I Get Around 120
Beach Boys / Surfin' U.S.A. 255
Beach Boys / God Only Knows 263
Beastie Boys / (You Gotta) Fight For Your Right (To Party) 157
Beastie Boys / Sabotage 283
Beatles / Hey Jude 11
Beatles / She Loves You 27
Beatles / A Day In The Life 34
Beatles / Let It Be 57
Beatles / I Want To Hold Your Hand 70
Beatles / Yesterday 80
Beatles / I Saw Her Standing There 119
Beatles / Strawberry Fields Forever 179
Beatles / Revolution 227
Beatles / A Hard Day's Night 234
Beatles / Isley Brothers / Twist And Shout 97
Beck / Loser 158
Bee Gees / Stayin' Alive 64
Ben E. King / Stand By Me 72
Beyoncé feat. Jay Z / Crazy in Love 202
Bill Haley & His Comets / Rock Around The Clock 8
Bill Withers / Lean on Me 152
Billy Joel / Piano Man 236
Black Sabbath / Paranoid 173
BLACKstreet / No Diggity 279
Blondie / Call Me 108
Blondie / Heart of Glass 168
Blue Oyster Cult / (Don't Fear) The Reaper 211
Bo Diddley / Bo Diddley 40
Bob Dylan / Like A Rolling Stone 10
Bob Dylan / Blowin' In The Wind 190
Bob Marley and the Wailers / No Woman, No Cry 124
Bob Seger & the Silver Bullet Band / Old Time Rock 'n' Roll 278
Bon Jovi / Livin On a Prayer 246
Booker T. & the MGs / Green Onions 95
Boston / More Than a Feeling 105
Box Tops / The Letter 264
Bruce Springsteen / Born to Run 22
Bruce Springsteen / Born In the U.S.A. 155
Bruce Springsteen / Thunder Road 244
Buddy Holly / Peggy Sue 122
Buddy Holly & the Crickets / That'll Be The Day 36
Buffalo Springfield / For What It's Worth 150
Byrds / Eight Miles High 178
Byrds / Bob Dylan / Mr. Tambourine Man 53
Carl Perkins / Elvis Presley / Blue Suede Shoes 61
Carole King / It's Too Late 188
Cee Lo Green / Fuck You (Forget You) 240
Chic / Good Times 210
Chicago / 25 or 6 to 4 295
Chords / Crew Cuts / Sh-Boom 216
Chubby Checker / The Twist 297
Chuck Berry / Johnny B. Goode 1
Chuck Berry / Maybellene 39
Chuck Berry / Rock And Roll Music 118
Chuck Berry / Roll Over Beethoven 128
Chuck Berry / Sweet Little Sixteen 286
Coasters / Yakety Yak 287
Coldplay / Clocks 223
Coolio / Gangsta's Paradise 159
Cream / Sunshine Of Your Love 45
Cream / White Room 145
Creedence Clearwater Revival / Ike & Tina Turner / Proud Mary 54
Creedence Clearwater Revival / Who'll Stop the Rain 166
Creedence Clearwater Revival / Bad Moon Rising 226
Crosby, Stills & Nash / Suite: Judy Blue Eyes 198
Cyndi Lauper / Girls Just Want To Have Fun 149
Dave Clark Five / Glad All Over 288
David Bowie / Changes 296
Deep Purple / Smoke on the Water 132
Del Shannon / Runaway 239
Depeche Mode / Enjoy the Silence 270
Derek and the Dominos / Layla 25
Devo / Whip It 115
Dion / The Wanderer 258
Dion / Runaround Sue 289
Dire Straits / Sultans of Swing 151
Dire Straits / Money For Nothing 177
Dominoes / Sixty Minute Man 272
Don McLean / American Pie 59
Donna Summer / Hot Stuff 256
Doors / Light My Fire 23
Doors / Riders On the Storm 219
Dr. Dre & Snoop Dogg / Nuthin' But a "G" Thang 66
Drifters / Under The Boardwalk 265
Drifters featuring Clyde McPhatter / Money Honey 233
Eagles / Hotel California 15
Eddie Cochran / Blue Cheer / The Who / Summertime Blues 28
Elton John / Your Song 92
Elvis Presley / Jailhouse Rock 7
Elvis Presley / Hound Dog 21
Elvis Presley / Don't Be Cruel 62
Elvis Presley / Heartbreak Hotel 87
Elvis Presley / All Shook Up 241
Elvis Presley with Scotty and Bill / That's All Right 254
Elvis Presley with Scotty and Bill / Mystery Train 269
Eminem / Lose Yourself 183
Eminem / My Name Is 294
Eric Clapton / Tears In Heaven 204
Eurythmics / Sweet Dreams 107
Everly Brothers / Bye Bye Love 98
Fats Domino / Blueberry Hill 162
Fats Domino / Ain't It A Shame 225
Five Satins / In The Still Of The Nite 136
Flamingos / I Only Have Eyes For You 140
Fleetwood Mac / Go Your Own Way 77
Four Tops / Reach Out, I'll Be There 121
Frankie Goes To Hollywood / Relax 230
Frankie Lymon & the Teenagers / Why Do Fools Fall In Love 103
Free / All Right Now 199
Funkedelic / One Nation Under a Groove 290
Gene Vincent & the Blue Caps / Be-Bop-A-Lula 117
Gladys Knight and the Pips / Midnight Train to Georgia 102
Gloria Gaynor / I Will Survive 73
Gnarls Barkley / Crazy 100
Goo Goo Dolls / Iris 299
Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five / The Message 50
Grateful Dead / Truckin' 268
Guns N' Roses / Sweet Child O' Mine 90
Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes / If You Don't Know Me by Now 212
House of Pain / Jump Around 271
Human League / Don't You Want Me? 85
Impressions / People Get Ready 197
Isaac Hayes / Theme from "Shaft" 169
Isley Brothers / Otis Day and the Knights / Shout 205
Jackie Brenston / Rocket 88 273
Jackson 5 / I Want You Back 83
James Brown / Papa's Got A Brand New Bag 41
James Brown / Get Up (I Feel Like Being a) Sex Machine 143
James Brown & the Famous Flames / Please, Please, Please 182
James Taylor / Fire and Rain 172
Janis Joplin / Me and Bobby McGee 170
Jay-Z featuring Alicia Keys / Empire State Of Mind 252
Jefferson Airplane / Somebody To Love 94
Jerry Butler & the Impressions / For Your Precious Love 161
Jerry Lee Lewis / Whole Lot of Shakin' Going On 20
Jerry Lee Lewis / Great Balls Of Fire 51
Jethro Tull / Aqualung 217
Jimi Hendrix Experience / Purple Haze 33
Jimi Hendrix Experience / All Along The Watchtower 49
Joan Jett & The Blackhearts / I Love Rock 'N' Roll 84
Joe Turner / Bill Haley and His Comets / Shake, Rattle And Ro 55
John Lennon / Imagine 18
Johnny Ace / Pledging My Love 262
Johnny Burnette Trio / The Train Kept-A-Rollin 261
Johnny Cash and the Tennessee Two / I Walk The Line 207
Journey / Don't Stop Believin' 133
Joy Division / Love Will Tear Us Apart 203
Kanye West / Jesus Walks 300
Kinks / Lola 148
Kinks / All Day And All Of The Night 250
Kinks / Van Halen / You Really Got Me 29
Kool & The Gang / Celebration 109
Lauryn Hill / Doo Wop (That Thing) 176
Led Zeppelin / Stairway to Heaven 3
Led Zeppelin / Whole Lotta Love 46
Led Zeppelin / Kashmir 167
Led Zeppelin / Dazed And Confused 193
Led Zeppelin / Rock And Roll 277
Lionel Richie / All Night Long (All Night) 213
Little Eva / The Loco-Motion 248
Little Richard / Tutti-Frutti 13
Little Richard / Long Tall Sally 32
Little Richard / Good Golly Miss Molly 104
Little Willie John / Fever 247
Lloyd Price / Lawdy Miss Clawdy 127
Lou Reed / Walk on the Wild Side 187
Lynyrd Skynyrd / Free Bird 65
Lynyrd Skynyrd / Sweet Home Alabama 131
M.I.A. / Paper Planes 232
Madonna / Like a Virgin 88
Madonna / Into the Groove 189
Mamas & the Papas / California Dreamin' 165
Mariah Carey / Dreamlover 293
Martha & the Vandellas / Dancing In The Street 134
Marvin Gaye / I Heard It Through The Grapevine 5
Marvin Gaye / What's Going On 19
Marvin Gaye / Let's Get It On 68
Marvin Gaye / Sexual Healing 101
Meat Loaf / Paradise By the Dashboard Light 200
Metallica / Enter Sandman 186
Michael Jackson / Billie Jean 9
Michael Jackson / Beat It 89
Miracles / The Tracks Of My Tears 164
Miracles / You've Really Got A Hold On Me 209
Missy Misdemeanor Elliot / Get Ur Freak On 206
Monkees / Smash Mouth / I'm A Believer 249
Moody Blues / Nights In White Satin 180
Neil Young / Heart of Gold 174
New Order / Blue Monday 221
Nirvana / Smells Like Teen Spirit 35
No Doubt / Don't Speak 275
Oasis / Wonderwall 175
O'Jays / Love Train 267
Otis Redding / (Sittin' On) The Dock Of The Bay 60
OutKast / Hey Ya 52
Pearl Jam / Jeremy 86
Penguins / Earth Angel 99
Percy Sledge / When A Man Loves A Woman 69
Pink Floyd / Another Brick in the Wall Part II 116
Pink Floyd / Money 229
Pink Floyd / Comfortably Numb 245
Platters / The Great Pretender 224
Police / Every Breath You Take 37
Prince / When Doves Cry 42
Prince / Little Red Corvette 181
Procol Harum / A Whiter Shade Of Pale 75
Public Enemy / Fight the Power 285
Queen / Bohemian Rhapsody 26
Queen / Another One Bites the Dust 110
Queen / We Will Rock You / We Are the Champions 130
R.E.M. / Losing My Religion 44
Radiohead / Creep 184
Radiohead / Paranoid Android 231
Rage Against The Machine / Killing In the Name 298
Ramones / I Wanna Be Sedated 228
Ramones / Blitzkrieg Bop 280
Ray Charles / What'd I Say 14
Ray Charles / Georgia On My Mind 192
Red Hot Chili Peppers / Under the Bridge 91
Rick James / Super Freak 74
Righteous Brothers / You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' 16
Rob Base & D.J. E-Z Rock / It Takes Two 257
Robert Palmer / Addicted To Love 238
Roberta Flack / Fugees / Killing Me Softly with His Song 237
Rod Stewart / Maggie May 58
Rolling Stones / (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction 6
Rolling Stones / Brown Sugar 67
Rolling Stones / Jumpin' Jack Flash 137
Rolling Stones / Sympathy For The Devil 146
Rolling Stones / Gimme Shelter 194
Rolling Stones / Honky Tonk Women 218
Ronettes / Be My Baby 76
Roy Orbison / Oh, Pretty Woman 139
Roy Orbison / Crying 291
Sam & Dave / Soul Man 96
Sam Cooke / A Change Is Gonna Come 48
Sam Cooke / Bring It On Home To Me 208
Santana / Black Magic Woman 220
Santana feat. Rob Thomas / Smooth 259
Sex Pistols / Anarchy in the U.K. 141
Shirelles / Will You Love Me Tomorrow 191
Simon & Garfunkel / The Sounds Of Silence 111
Simon and Garfunkel / Bridge Over Troubled Water 30
Sinéad O'Connor / Nothing Compares 2 U 160
Sly and the Family Stone / Family Affair 129
Smashing Pumpkins / 1979 222
Soft Cell / Tainted Love 112
Soundgarden / Black Hole Sun 282
Spencer Davis Group / Gimme Some Lovin' 123
Staple Singers / I'll Take You There 266
Steely Dan / Reeling in the Years 281
Steppenwolf / Born To Be Wild 138
Stevie Wonder / Superstition 24
Stevie Wonder / Living for the City 147
Sugarhill Gang / Rapper's Delight 82
Supremes / Where Did Our Love Go 81
Supremes / You Keep Me Hangin' On 235
Temptations / My Girl 17
Temptations / Papa Was a Rollin' Stone 78
Temptations / Just My Imagination 106
Temptations / Ain't Too Proud To Beg 126
The Clash / London Calling 125
The Kingsmen / Louie Louie 4
The Police / Roxanne 113
The White Stripes / Seven Nation Army 215
The Who / My Generation 43
The Who / Won't Get Fooled Again 63
The Who / Baba O'Riley 171
The Who / I Can See For Miles 276
Them / Shadows Of Knight / Gloria 274
Tina Turner / What's Love Got To Do With It? 154
TLC / Waterfalls 144
Tommy James & the Shondells / Billy Idol / Mony Mony 135
Troggs / Wild Thing 242
U2 / One 47
U2 / With Or Without You 156
U2 / I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For 195
Van Halen / Jump 201
Van Morrison / Brown Eyed Girl 163
Village People / Y.M.C.A. 292
War / Low Rider 253
Whitney Houston / How Will I Know? 284
Wilson Pickett / In The Midnight Hour 38
Wynonie Harris / Good Rockin' Tonight 71
Yardbirds / Heart Full Of Soul 196
Yes / Roundabout 251
Zombies / She's Not There 243
Message has been deleted
Ray Arthur
Aug 8, 2012, 1:57:49 PM8/8/12
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Ray Arthur
The Bloomfield Bloviator
Aug 8, 2012, 1:58:26 PM8/8/12
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Travis_Trite
Aug 8, 2012, 2:04:54 PM8/8/12
to
>> Of course.
>
>
>
> Wanted to have it so the rank column appeared aligned on right, but
> pasting text in which it works that way, into my Outlook Express, does
> this to the right column
>
It's because the font set for my Newsgroup viewer (Outlook) is not a
>
>
>
> Wanted to have it so the rank column appeared aligned on right, but
> pasting text in which it works that way, into my Outlook Express, does
> this to the right column
>
fixed-width font (Courier).
And, it does the same if viewing on Google groups. The font used there is
from the browser (or the site, or both).
The number of spaces is retained. I thought it might be tossing out over a
certain number of spaces, the way a tab is turned to a single space.
Ray Arthur
Aug 8, 2012, 2:09:35 PM8/8/12
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So, as far as the validity of your list goes,
It's .... :)
Ray
The Bloomfield Buddy
Aug 8, 2012, 2:28:13 PM8/8/12
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It does not do well in "acclaim." It's only the #132 song of the 1950s
on acclaimed.net, which comes out to the #1545 song of all time there.
Can you cite me some other records that you think were influenced by
"It's Only Make Believe."
I can't find anyplace that mentions the record as the first rock power
ballad, by the way.
Power ballads
Simon Frith identifies the origins of the power ballad in the
emotional singing of soul artists, particularly Ray Charles and the
adaptation of this style by figures such as Eric Burdon, Tom Jones and
Joe Cocker to produce slow tempo songs often building to a loud and
emotive chorus backed by drums, electric guitars and sometimes choirs.
According to Charles Aaron, power ballads came into existence in the
early 1970s, when rock stars attempted to convey profound messages to
audiences. He argues that the power ballad broke into the mainstream
of American consciousness in 1976 as FM radio gave a new lease of life
to earlier songs like Led Zeppelin's "Stairway to Heaven" (1971),
Aerosmith's "Dream On" (1973), and Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Free Bird" (1974).
[46] Other notable examples include Nazareth's version of "Love
Hurts" (1975), Foreigner's "I Want to Know What Love Is" and Scorpions
"Still Loving You" (both 1984), Heart's "What About Love" (1985), and
Whitesnake's "Is This Love" (1987).
It's also not among the top 200 Rock Ballads on this list:
http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_balladsddd.html
It's also not on any significant all time rock song list. Not on the
Rolling Stone List, not on the R&R Hall Of Fame List, not on the RIAA
list....nothing.
Dave Marsh ranked it as the #689 rock or aoul single of all time in a
25 year old book, By now, with all of the modern stufff that has
passes it by, plus all of the album tracks that Marsh did not
consider, it's probably down near #1000 of all time, which is about
right IMO.
If you want me to get that song on the list you're gonna have to show
me some objective evidence of its significance, beyond your own
personal opinion.
The Bloomfield Buddy
Aug 8, 2012, 2:36:21 PM8/8/12
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rank the remaining 50s items:
I see everything in the top 30 here as definitely making the top 500.
1. Folsom Prison Blues - Johnny Cash and the Tennessee Two
2. La Bamba - Ritchie Valens / Los Lobos
3. You Send Me - Sam Cooke
4. School Day - Chuck Berry
5. Lucille - Little Richard
6. All I Have To Do Is Dream - Everly Brothers
7. There Goes My Baby - Drifters
8. Wake Up Little Susie - Everly Brothers
9. I've Got A Woman - Ray Charles
10. Rave On - Buddy Holly
11. Money - Barrett Strong / Beatles
12. Who Do You Love - Bo Diddley
13. Rumble - Link Wray
14. Rocking Pneumonia and the Boogie Woogie Flu - Huey "Piano" Smith &
the Clowns
15. Kansas City - Wilbert Harrison
16. Lonely Teardrops - Jackie Wilson
17. Sincerely - Moonglows
18. Crying In The Chapel - Orioles / Elvis Presley
19. Matchbox - Carl Perkins
20. I Put A Spell On You - Screamin' Jay Hawkins
21. At The Hop - Danny & the Juniors
22. Honky Tonk - Bill Doggett
23. Only You - Platters
24. Jim Dandy - LaVern Baker
25. Rebel Rouser - Duane Eddy
26. Tequila - Champs
27. C'mon Everybody - Eddie Cochran
28. Love Potion No. 9 - Clovers / Searchers
29. Willie And The Hand Jive - Johnny Otis Show
30. Do You Want To Dance - Bobby Freeman / Beach Boys / Ramones
And I see the next 5 or 6 as borderline possibilities.
31. Keep A' Knockin' - Little Richard
32. Susie Q - Dale Hawkins / Creedence Clearwater Revival
33. Come Go With Me - Del-Vikings
34. Searchin' - Coasters
35. I'm Walkin' - Fats Domino
36. Chantilly Lace - Big Bopper
And those below, while great, I don't see as worthy of an all time top
500 over the course of 65 years of rock and roll (1948-2012). That's
an average of less than 8 songs per year.
37. Let The Good Times Roll - Shirley & Lee
38. Rip It Up - Little Richard
39. Goodnite, Sweetheart, Goodnite - Spaniels
40. White Christmas - Drifters featuring Clyde McPhatter
41. Poison Ivy - Coasters
42. Since I Don't Have You - Skyliners
43. Work With Me Annie - Hank Ballard & the Midnighters
44. Gee - Crows
45. C.C. Rider - Chuck Willis
46. Hang Up My Rock And Roll Shoes - Chuck Willis
47. Sea Cruise - Frankie Ford
48. Little Darlin' - Diamonds
49. Rock-In Robin - Bobby Day / Michael Jackson
50. Blue Monday - Fats Domino
51. It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty
52. Have Mercy Baby - Dominoes
53. Reelin And Rocking - Chuck Berry
54. Not Fade Away - Buddy Holly and the Crickets / Rolling Stones
55. Speedoo - Cadillacs
Michael Pendragon
Aug 8, 2012, 4:51:41 PM8/8/12
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your granting it "SOME validity" -- I believe that such a strong
contender for the coveted title of "The First Rock 'n' Roll Record"
should place in the Top 10 on historical significance alone.
We also have wildly divergent view as to what "rock 'n' roll" is. For
example I do not consider your #2 pick, Aretha Franklin's "Respect" to
be "rock 'n' roll" by any stretch of the definition. Your #3 pick,
Led Zepplin's "Stairway to Heaven," has only slightly more of a case,
as "classic rock" can claim to be descended from "r'n'r."
In fact, I would only consider 4 of your Top 10 to be "r'n'r" records;
and this ratio decreases further as the list goes on.
Your inclusion of "Billie Jean" at #9 makes me wish I could blast
Digital Dream Door clean outta cyberspace.
Sorry ... Music should be listed alongside of Religion and Politics as
a topic that people can set even the most courteous of men at odds.
Your list is ... (gag) ... interesting ...
SixStringStu
Aug 8, 2012, 5:04:41 PM8/8/12
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"Michael Pendragon" <michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21d23c24-0174-4199...@e5g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 7, 6:21 pm, The Bloomfield Buddy <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
> We just did a revision of the site's "Greatest Rock Songs" list. It
> was long overdue, as there was not even any hip hop on the old list.
>
> http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_songsddd.html
>
> It will be expanding to a top 500 early in 2013, with probably an
> additional 30 songs from the 50s and about 40 more each from the 60s
> and 70s.
>
> Mike should like this entry:
>
> 216. Sh-Boom - Chords / Crew Cuts
>
> As we conceded that the Crew Cuts version does have SOME validity as a
> "rock" record by listing it alongside the Chords version.
While I appreciate your inclusion of this record -- not to mention
your granting it "SOME validity" -- I believe that such a strong
contender for the coveted title of "The First Rock 'n' Roll Record"
should place in the Top 10 on historical significance alone.
We also have wildly divergent view as to what "rock 'n' roll" is. For
example I do not consider your #2 pick, Aretha Franklin's "Respect" to
be "rock 'n' roll" by any stretch of the definition. Your #3 pick,
Led Zepplin's "Stairway to Heaven," has only slightly more of a case,
as "classic rock" can claim to be descended from "r'n'r."
____________
> We just did a revision of the site's "Greatest Rock Songs" list. It
> was long overdue, as there was not even any hip hop on the old list.
>
> http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_songsddd.html
>
> It will be expanding to a top 500 early in 2013, with probably an
> additional 30 songs from the 50s and about 40 more each from the 60s
> and 70s.
>
> Mike should like this entry:
>
> 216. Sh-Boom - Chords / Crew Cuts
>
> As we conceded that the Crew Cuts version does have SOME validity as a
> "rock" record by listing it alongside the Chords version.
While I appreciate your inclusion of this record -- not to mention
your granting it "SOME validity" -- I believe that such a strong
contender for the coveted title of "The First Rock 'n' Roll Record"
should place in the Top 10 on historical significance alone.
We also have wildly divergent view as to what "rock 'n' roll" is. For
example I do not consider your #2 pick, Aretha Franklin's "Respect" to
be "rock 'n' roll" by any stretch of the definition. Your #3 pick,
Led Zepplin's "Stairway to Heaven," has only slightly more of a case,
as "classic rock" can claim to be descended from "r'n'r."
What exactly was Classic Rock, before it achieved classic status?
Michael Pendragon
Aug 8, 2012, 11:51:56 PM8/8/12
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On Aug 8, 5:04 pm, "SixStringStu" <hawkinnc45REM...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> "Michael Pendragon" <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Good question.
It's several steps removed from rock 'n' roll -- far enough removed to
constitute a separate genre.
Let's put it this way: No one would ever mistake Zed Lepplin music for
50s style rock 'n' roll.
wrote:
> "Michael Pendragon" <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote in message
It's several steps removed from rock 'n' roll -- far enough removed to
constitute a separate genre.
Let's put it this way: No one would ever mistake Zed Lepplin music for
50s style rock 'n' roll.
Dean F.
Aug 8, 2012, 11:54:03 PM8/8/12
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I'm surprised that song #71 cites Wynonie Harris only. Didn't you
consider Elvis' remake worthy of inclusion as well?
I'm also glad that Cee Lo Green made the list! That's easily the best
top forty hit I've heard since song #35.
consider Elvis' remake worthy of inclusion as well?
I'm also glad that Cee Lo Green made the list! That's easily the best
top forty hit I've heard since song #35.
wereoawl
Aug 9, 2012, 12:11:56 AM8/9/12
to
"The Bloomfield Buddy" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:dd4317a0-6aec-4b01...@f2g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
news:dd4317a0-6aec-4b01...@f2g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
> We just did a revision of the site's "Greatest Rock Songs" list. It
> was long overdue, as there was not even any hip hop on the old list.
>
> http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_songsddd.html
>
> It will be expanding to a top 500 early in 2013, with probably an
> additional 30 songs from the 50s and about 40 more each from the 60s
> and 70s.
>
> Mike should like this entry:
>
> 216. Sh-Boom - Chords / Crew Cuts
>
> As we conceded that the Crew Cuts version does have SOME validity as a
> "rock" record by listing it alongside the Chords version.
>
Rock 'n' roll is a crock of shit!
> was long overdue, as there was not even any hip hop on the old list.
>
> http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_songsddd.html
>
> It will be expanding to a top 500 early in 2013, with probably an
> additional 30 songs from the 50s and about 40 more each from the 60s
> and 70s.
>
> Mike should like this entry:
>
> 216. Sh-Boom - Chords / Crew Cuts
>
> As we conceded that the Crew Cuts version does have SOME validity as a
> "rock" record by listing it alongside the Chords version.
>
BobbyM
Aug 9, 2012, 12:19:11 AM8/9/12
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you a good answer.
>
> It's several steps removed from rock 'n' roll -- far enough removed to
> constitute a separate genre.
>
> Let's put it this way: No one would ever mistake Zed Lepplin music for
> 50s style rock 'n' roll.
Caveat emptor. Pendragon is a guy who wouldn't consider Led Zeppelin's
> It's several steps removed from rock 'n' roll -- far enough removed to
> constitute a separate genre.
>
> Let's put it this way: No one would ever mistake Zed Lepplin music for
> 50s style rock 'n' roll.
song, "Rock & Roll" a rock & roll record but would consider Kay
Starr's, "Rock & Roll Waltz", a rock & roll classic. Pendragon
outrightly dismisses "Respect"; obviously, he knows more about gerbils
than rock & roll.
Dean F.
Aug 9, 2012, 12:21:06 AM8/9/12
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> What exactly was Classic Rock, before it achieved classic status?
It was called AOR: Album Oriented Rock.
The Bloomfield Buddy
Aug 9, 2012, 12:30:33 AM8/9/12
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On Aug 8, 11:54 pm, "Dean F." <soulexpr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm surprised that song #71 cites Wynonie Harris only. Didn't you
> consider Elvis' remake worthy of inclusion as well?
Not quite, no. While I personally think it's one of the greatest
> I'm surprised that song #71 cites Wynonie Harris only. Didn't you
> consider Elvis' remake worthy of inclusion as well?
records anybody ever made, based on the criteria, Elvis's version
doesn't measure up. It had no initial popularity, and little lasting
popularity. As for acclaim, "Mystery Train" and "That's All Right are
both in the top 120 on the Rolling Stone Top 500 song list, "Good
Rockin' Tonight" is not on the top 500 at all. Same thing on the R&R
hall Of Fame list. We'd probably be more likely to list Roy Brown's
version.
> I'm also glad that Cee Lo Green made the list! That's easily the best
> top forty hit I've heard since song #35.
Travis_Trite
Aug 9, 2012, 12:43:53 AM8/9/12
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> > I'm also glad that Cee Lo Green made the list! That's easily the best
> > top forty hit I've heard since song #35.
> You like the Nirvana thing? I think it's terrible. But huge.
The Bloomfield Buddy
Aug 9, 2012, 12:48:57 AM8/9/12
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to get.
Travis_Trite
Aug 9, 2012, 12:59:35 AM8/9/12
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> news:f39e30ca-1a79-4d37...@w14g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...
Good one. I have no comeback
Dean F.
Aug 9, 2012, 6:26:20 AM8/9/12
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On Aug 9, 12:19 am, BobbyM <masseybNOS...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Caveat emptor. Pendragon is a guy who wouldn't consider Led Zeppelin's
> song, "Rock & Roll" a rock & roll record but would consider Kay
> Starr's, "Rock & Roll Waltz", a rock & roll classic. Pendragon
> outrightly dismisses "Respect"; obviously, he knows more about gerbils
> than rock & roll.
What Pendragon knows about rock 'n' roll wouldn't fill a Post-It Note.
> Caveat emptor. Pendragon is a guy who wouldn't consider Led Zeppelin's
> song, "Rock & Roll" a rock & roll record but would consider Kay
> Starr's, "Rock & Roll Waltz", a rock & roll classic. Pendragon
> outrightly dismisses "Respect"; obviously, he knows more about gerbils
> than rock & roll.
SixStringStu
Aug 9, 2012, 8:34:06 AM8/9/12
to
news:66b1a76b-14cc-46a5...@y1g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...
________________________
Thank you for the very biased opinion but I was looking for educated
honesty.
I distinctly remember Led Zepplin being played on "Rock and Roll" radio
stations.
Better for you to treat my original question as one that was rhetorical in
nature.
Thank you for the very biased opinion but I was looking for educated
honesty.
I distinctly remember Led Zepplin being played on "Rock and Roll" radio
stations.
Better for you to treat my original question as one that was rhetorical in
nature.
SixStringStu
Aug 9, 2012, 8:52:57 AM8/9/12
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"Dean F." <soule...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cd2120b1-dbf6-48c9...@n18g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
Thankfully we had radio to keep the songs to a reasonable length. On some of
those albums there were only a couple of tracks because of the long drawn
out solo's by the 1st, 2nd guitar the organ and the drummer.
But seriously, was it called AOR back then , or was the label given post
period? I seem to remember the old folks calling it "that damned Rock and
Roll". Me and my friends called it Rock and "Roll" seemed to be used less.
Case in point: The Capt. and Teniel were Soft Rock, James Taylor and Carly
Simon were not making the same upbeat sounds as Led Zepplin or dark and
aggressive stuff like Alice Cooper or Black Sabbath. Yet all are lumped into
the parent genre' as Rock and Roll. Why, because they are not polkas or
waltzes?
Michael Pendragon
Aug 9, 2012, 8:57:24 AM8/9/12
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On Aug 9, 12:19 am, BobbyM <masseybNOS...@hotmail.com> wrote:
to reflect both the song's story and the sometimes uneasy
intergenerational ties between parent and child. The end result is
neither entirely r'n'r or pop, but is definitely a classic.
I don't know Zep's "Rock & Roll," and don't want to.
> Pendragon
> outrightly dismisses "Respect"; obviously, he knows more about gerbils
> than rock & roll.
negative form. Aretha Franklin's delivery is virtually a sustained
screech. Not only isn't it r'n'r, but it's several degrees short of
music.
Michael Pendragon
Aug 9, 2012, 8:59:52 AM8/9/12
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Michael Pendragon
Aug 9, 2012, 9:02:12 AM8/9/12
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On Aug 9, 8:34 am, "SixStringStu" <hawkinnc45REM...@hotmail.com>
I did.
But seeing how your implied conclusion was faulty, I attempted to set
you straight. So much for good deeds.
But seeing how your implied conclusion was faulty, I attempted to set
you straight. So much for good deeds.
Travis_Trite
Aug 9, 2012, 9:25:17 AM8/9/12
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> BLACKstreet / No Diggity 279
the 90s. The sample is from Bill Withers, Mama's Hands
> Blondie / Call Me 108
Oh, right, all that "objective criteria"
> Blondie / Heart of Glass 168
> Bob Seger & the Silver Bullet Band / Old Time Rock 'n' Roll 278
Oh yes. The great importance and cultural significance of Risky Business
> Cee Lo Green / Fuck You (Forget You) 240
this gentleman has two songs in this list.
> David Bowie / Changes 296
> Devo / Whip It 115
better. So much so that I could never bring myself to own or listen to any
albums after the debut.
> Eminem / Lose Yourself 183
> Eminem / My Name Is 294
"I'm not afraid"
> Eric Clapton / Tears In Heaven 204
can put across a song when driving his voice like in Layla, but he has no
"relaxed voice."
> Fats Domino / Ain't It A Shame 225
Why don't you put that, after a slash: Cheap Trick / Fats Domino?
> Four Tops / Reach Out, I'll Be There 121
> Goo Goo Dolls / Iris 299
playing it in the subway, at the time. Could you add that as one of your
criteria?
> Impressions / People Get Ready 197
"on my ipod" as Tali would say. I guess Jeff Beck and Rod Stewart give it
those crucial "inflential" points, huh?
You DDD guys should dial down the influence of Rolling Stone mag lists and
other creep-ins from the dinosaur era.
> James Brown / Papa's Got A Brand New Bag 41
> James Brown / Get Up (I Feel Like Being a) Sex Machine 143
> James Brown & the Famous Flames / Please, Please, Please 182
> Jay-Z featuring Alicia Keys / Empire State Of Mind 252
> Johnny Ace / Pledging My Love 262
> Johnny Burnette Trio / The Train Kept-A-Rollin 261
> Johnny Cash and the Tennessee Two / I Walk The Line 207
> Kinks / Van Halen / You Really Got Me 29
> Little Eva / The Loco-Motion 248
Little Eva / Grand Funk
> Mariah Carey / Dreamlover 293
> No Doubt / Don't Speak 275
> Pearl Jam / Jeremy 86
I would think Alive has more stature, but you've got a chart or a list
somewhere
> Radiohead / Creep 184
> Radiohead / Paranoid Android 231
list. A paradox?
> Robert Palmer / Addicted To Love 238
> Roberta Flack / Fugees / Killing Me Softly with His Song 237
fm/easy listening
Where the fuck is Carpenters, Superstar? Those other two guys are barely two
years younger than you I'll bet.
> Sex Pistols / Anarchy in the U.K. 141
> Shirelles / Will You Love Me Tomorrow 191
> Smashing Pumpkins / 1979 222
> Soundgarden / Black Hole Sun 282
> TLC / Waterfalls 144
I'm saving my joke on this one, til y'all start treating me with the respect
I deserve
> U2 / One 47
> U2 / With Or Without You 156
> U2 / I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For 195
these.
> War / Low Rider 253
some) and don't worry my pretty little head about it
> Yardbirds / Heart Full Of Soul 196
> Zombies / She's Not There 243
which has a gold record dot next to it in my Whitburn (She's Not There
doesn't). Did Santana's cover of SNT, on Moonflower, push it over the top?
Note: I recently saw a super-glowing review of Moonflower, which I owned
long ago.
The Bloomfield Bloviator
Aug 9, 2012, 10:37:27 AM8/9/12
to
On Aug 9, 9:25 am, "Travis_Trite" <Travis_Tr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Note: I recently saw a super-glowing review of Moonflower, which I owned
> long ago.
Maybe on Broome's site. Did he give it 16/20 ?
>
> Note: I recently saw a super-glowing review of Moonflower, which I owned
> long ago.
Bob Roman
Aug 9, 2012, 10:07:08 AM8/9/12
to
On Aug 9, 8:52 am, "SixStringStu" <hawkinnc45REM...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> But seriously, was it called AOR back then , or was the label given post
> period?
I knew the term in the 1970s. According to Wikipedia, the name was
coined by Radio & Records magazine in the early part of that decade.
--
BR
wrote:
> But seriously, was it called AOR back then , or was the label given post
> period?
coined by Radio & Records magazine in the early part of that decade.
--
BR
The Bloomfield Buddy
Aug 9, 2012, 1:39:09 PM8/9/12
to
in our wonderful 1950s Music Newsgroup. Always great to hear from one
of the old timers here, a member who was posting here even before
yours truly arrived.
Hopefully you'll have time to stop by more often in the future. Your
contributions to this group have always been very valuable and
appreciated. Hope all is well in Hoboken. Next time I am officating a
game in town maybe you can stop by and say hello. I was there at the
high school twice for basketball this past winter.
Stay well.
SixStringStu
Aug 9, 2012, 2:15:29 PM8/9/12
to
"Bob Roman" <robert...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:caaf3171-4f3a-436d...@b10g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...
Hey thanks for the answer! :-)
Travis_Trite
Aug 9, 2012, 3:29:26 PM8/9/12
to
>> U2 / I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For 195
(1) The lyrics are like an essay, "well, I still ... haven't found ... what
I'm looking for ... at the end of the day ... well maybe I'll look again
later ... too late, ran out of time ... get some sleep, try again tomorrow"
It could really go on like that, in an endless loop. Doing that would
probably turn it into a cool song. The great song Don't Let the Stars Get in
Your Eyes feels like it's getting overtaken by itself in a way like that.
(That's a two-chord song that goes against PR's ideas about the necessary
connection between chordal complexity and musical interest.)
(2) The start of the verse is rather thrilling,
I have climbed [pause] highest mountain
I have run through the fields
(I can't remember what the melody does on "through the fields" -- that's a
problem)
Only to be with you
Only to be with you
But the enegy in that thrilling first part of the verse is completely
drained by where they choose to go next, the "only to be with you" part.
It's like they just didn't have a good thing to do next.
The 2nd verse shows the "answer" structure better,
I have run [call]
I have crawled [answer]
I have scaled [call] these city walls [answer]
These city walls [sotto voce repetition of above line's answer]
Only to be with you
Message has been deleted
Jim Colegrove
Aug 9, 2012, 7:55:09 PM8/9/12
to
some in the late 1960s when FM DJs were given a wide path to play what
they wanted. The term "classic rock" seems to me to have come sometime
in the 1970s. I lived and worked in NYC from 1967 to 1970 and there
was no "classic rock" as far as I can recall. None of my friends that
are still around from then recall it either. Tom Donahue in San
Francisco had a large roll in this movement. And yes, most simply
referred to it as "rock" at the time. In my memory,
Jim Colegrove
www.thecoolgroove.com
Way Back Jack
Aug 9, 2012, 8:05:07 PM8/9/12
to
The Bloomfield Buddy <Sav...@aol.com> wrote in news:dd4317a0-6aec-4b01-
a8bd-d45...@f2g2000vbm.googlegroups.com:
> We just did a revision of the site's "Greatest Rock Songs" list. It
> was long overdue, as there was not even any hip hop on the old list.
>
> http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_songsddd.html
>
> It will be expanding to a top 500 early in 2013, with probably an
> additional 30 songs from the 50s and about 40 more each from the 60s
> and 70s.
>
> Mike should like this entry:
>
> 216. Sh-Boom - Chords / Crew Cuts
>
> As we conceded that the Crew Cuts version does have SOME validity as a
> "rock" record by listing it alongside the Chords version.
Here's my Top Pick In Honor of SixStringStu and his classy bride (was: 300
Greatest Rock Songs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh9ZZgDqzAg
James Stuart Hodges, aka SixStringStu, is a life-long societal parasite,
a Christian hypocrite, a pathological liar and a self-proclaimed sociopath
who has a long criminal record and several felony arrests, one of which got
him locked up by the Feds in a loony bin. Loony-bin boy also fathered a
child who was murdered because the woman who he impregnated didn't want to
spend the best years of her life rasing the illegitimate child of a
criminal freak.
James Styart Hodges
1442 SW Haygood Loop
Lake City, FL 32025
(386) 438-8968
http://tinyurl.com/6tbq5ap
At age 50, loony-bin boy searched every flop house, whore house, out house,
dog house and trailer park on the east coast, and found his perfect bride.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/71847494@N08/?saved=1
http://s1120.photobucket.com/albums/l487/wesolouseki/
http://www.facebook.com/people/Suzanne-Roberta-Hodges/100001276048983
Isn't she classy?
a8bd-d45...@f2g2000vbm.googlegroups.com:
> We just did a revision of the site's "Greatest Rock Songs" list. It
> was long overdue, as there was not even any hip hop on the old list.
>
> http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_songsddd.html
>
> It will be expanding to a top 500 early in 2013, with probably an
> additional 30 songs from the 50s and about 40 more each from the 60s
> and 70s.
>
> Mike should like this entry:
>
> 216. Sh-Boom - Chords / Crew Cuts
>
> As we conceded that the Crew Cuts version does have SOME validity as a
> "rock" record by listing it alongside the Chords version.
Greatest Rock Songs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh9ZZgDqzAg
James Stuart Hodges, aka SixStringStu, is a life-long societal parasite,
a Christian hypocrite, a pathological liar and a self-proclaimed sociopath
who has a long criminal record and several felony arrests, one of which got
him locked up by the Feds in a loony bin. Loony-bin boy also fathered a
child who was murdered because the woman who he impregnated didn't want to
spend the best years of her life rasing the illegitimate child of a
criminal freak.
James Styart Hodges
1442 SW Haygood Loop
Lake City, FL 32025
(386) 438-8968
http://tinyurl.com/6tbq5ap
At age 50, loony-bin boy searched every flop house, whore house, out house,
dog house and trailer park on the east coast, and found his perfect bride.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/71847494@N08/?saved=1
http://s1120.photobucket.com/albums/l487/wesolouseki/
http://www.facebook.com/people/Suzanne-Roberta-Hodges/100001276048983
Isn't she classy?
Curmudgeon
Aug 9, 2012, 8:20:25 PM8/9/12
to
In article <i0j828lmkp5om3sgu...@4ax.com>, Jim Colegrove
Jim, my memory insists that the "progressive" label was applied to Yes
and Emerson, Lake, & Palmer and people like that. We called the new FM
free-form stations "underground" from their debut in late '67 until the
advent of fairly tight formatting in the mid-'70s. I was the midnight
man at KFIG-FM ("Rock 101"), Fresno from '72 until '75. When I began,
I could play pretty much whatever I wanted, but by the time I left, the
scene had changed and not at all for the better: I was being asked/told
to play Anne Murray at 4:00 in the morning, and that just went against
my grain so I went back to college (and the freedom of college radio).
The "AOR" label might have been batted around at that time but I don't
remember hearing it, nor did I hear the (stupid) term "classic rock" in
my years in the biz.
For what it's worth, Wikipedia says that the "AOR" label was hatched in
the mid-'70s and that "classic rock" succeeded it in the early '80s.
--
Cheers!
Mudge
"And if California slides into the ocean like the mystics and
statistics say it will, I predict this hotel will be standing
until I pay my bill."
and Emerson, Lake, & Palmer and people like that. We called the new FM
free-form stations "underground" from their debut in late '67 until the
advent of fairly tight formatting in the mid-'70s. I was the midnight
man at KFIG-FM ("Rock 101"), Fresno from '72 until '75. When I began,
I could play pretty much whatever I wanted, but by the time I left, the
scene had changed and not at all for the better: I was being asked/told
to play Anne Murray at 4:00 in the morning, and that just went against
my grain so I went back to college (and the freedom of college radio).
The "AOR" label might have been batted around at that time but I don't
remember hearing it, nor did I hear the (stupid) term "classic rock" in
my years in the biz.
For what it's worth, Wikipedia says that the "AOR" label was hatched in
the mid-'70s and that "classic rock" succeeded it in the early '80s.
--
Cheers!
Mudge
"And if California slides into the ocean like the mystics and
statistics say it will, I predict this hotel will be standing
until I pay my bill."
BobbyM
Aug 9, 2012, 9:08:09 PM8/9/12
to
the other oldies r&r music (music from the 50's & early 60's)? Primarily
radio stations that wanted to market to a younger audience?
SixStringStu
Aug 9, 2012, 10:27:06 PM8/9/12
to
"Jim Colegrove" <co...@thecoolgroove.com> wrote in message
news:i0j828lmkp5om3sgu...@4ax.com...
plain old rock, durring the late 60's up till when Disco ravaged everyones
senses and left the field open for Hair Bands and then Pop culture.
That post rock period alone is what made the era so classic, IMO.
I can even buy into the AOR concept because it was also the era of
individual artists, Mainly guitar and drums with a smattering of organ,
being given long solo space to showcase their talents.
Thanks for the input folks.
tr...@iwvisp.com
Aug 9, 2012, 10:41:32 PM8/9/12
to
From an east coast perspective, I worked middays at WMGM-FM Atlantic City in 1972. We were billed/labeled/promoted as AOR: Album Oriented Radio, or as our detractors referred to us, "All Over the Radio." Big LP library. The playlist was broad and the guidelines were pretty loose. Know the music, build and blend the sets, don't bring any music in, play the marked cuts, solict requests, don't play requestas, etc.!
Ray Arthur
Ray Arthur
Dean F.
Aug 9, 2012, 10:45:35 PM8/9/12
to
On Aug 9, 7:55 pm, Jim Colegrove <co...@thecoolgroove.com> wrote:
> Tom Donahue in San Francisco had a large roll in this movement.
Was it a sesame seed roll? A kaiser roll, perhaps?
> Tom Donahue in San Francisco had a large roll in this movement.
tr...@iwvisp.com
Aug 9, 2012, 10:26:40 PM8/9/12
to
Bob Roman
Aug 10, 2012, 9:11:13 AM8/10/12
to
On Aug 9, 1:39 pm, The Bloomfield Buddy <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
> Bob, nice to hear from you. It's been awhile since you stopped by here
> in our wonderful 1950s Music Newsgroup. Always great to hear from one
> of the old timers here, a member who was posting here even before
> yours truly arrived.
I've been watching your performance all week, and enjoying it. Good
> Bob, nice to hear from you. It's been awhile since you stopped by here
> in our wonderful 1950s Music Newsgroup. Always great to hear from one
> of the old timers here, a member who was posting here even before
> yours truly arrived.
luck with the new persona as long as it lasts.
--
BR
Travis_Trite
Aug 10, 2012, 9:57:26 AM8/10/12
to
> That was my reccolection as well, that the popular music was called just
> plain old rock, durring the late 60's up till when
Disco ravaged everyones
> senses
What can your world be worth if it can be torn asunder by Gloria Gaynor and
> plain old rock, durring the late 60's up till when
Disco ravaged everyones
> senses
Barry Gibb?
Michael Pendragon
Aug 10, 2012, 11:07:05 AM8/10/12
to
Adolf Hitler could tear it to shreds.
Travis_Trite
Aug 10, 2012, 11:11:41 AM8/10/12
to
> > > That was my reccolection as well, that the popular music was called
> > > just
> > > plain old rock, durring the late 60's up till when
> >
> > Disco ravaged everyones
> >
> > > senses
> >
> > What can your world be worth if it can be torn asunder by Gloria Gaynor
> > and
> > Barry Gibb?
>
> Evil is evil. You might as well ask what the world could be worth if
> Adolf Hitler could tear it to shreds.
You're so right. Forgot about that.
> > > just
> > > plain old rock, durring the late 60's up till when
> >
> > Disco ravaged everyones
> >
> > > senses
> >
> > What can your world be worth if it can be torn asunder by Gloria Gaynor
> > and
> > Barry Gibb?
>
> Evil is evil. You might as well ask what the world could be worth if
> Adolf Hitler could tear it to shreds.
Travis_Trite
Aug 10, 2012, 11:44:25 AM8/10/12
to
"poisoned rose" <pro...@poisonedrose.com> wrote in message
news:prose9-5B0DE8....@news.eternal-september.org...
> "Travis_Trite" <Travis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > Pearl Jam / Jeremy 86
>>
>> Alive? Jeremy? Alive? Jeremy?
>>
>> I would think Alive has more stature
>
> I don't agree with that at all.
>
>> > Pearl Jam / Jeremy 86
>>
>> Alive? Jeremy? Alive? Jeremy?
>>
>> I would think Alive has more stature
>
Okay. Could certainly be that J has more stature. I'm only judging from the
way they're played on the radio, and maybe that A's musical non-descriptness
got my attention more when they were at the starting gate. I *liked* J, but
I've never liked A.
Point I want to make about J though is that it's at odds with a punk-aware
philosophy. It's tmi about where Eddy Vedder's (and the band's) head is
probably really at. Vedder shows himself to have been, when younger, a
(perhaps AOR) bully type, whereas Jeremy the kid may very well have grown up
to be an outsider punk type.
Side note about Vedder: When he (or they?) covered Last Kiss in the 90s, I
figured it was the 70s small-hit cover (by Wednesday?) that inspired him to
do it.
That cover also made a big impression on me in, whenever, 73-74; so Vedder,
who's about exactly my age, and I were both dreamily being inspired by the
same song at that impressionable age. (Again, this supposition of mine is
unresearched.)
Travis_Trite
Aug 10, 2012, 11:49:16 AM8/10/12
to
> (by Wednesday?) that inspired him to do it.
That is, rather than the formal, original, hit version from the early 60s
that most music fans would be aware of.
Ray Arthur
Aug 10, 2012, 11:55:06 AM8/10/12
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That's (Wiki) factoid is interesting eskew in that R & R's first issue
was in October of 1973 but my time at AOR WMGM was a year earlier!
And thazt's why I love Wikipedia!
Ray
The Bloomfield Buddy
Aug 10, 2012, 12:11:22 PM8/10/12
to
the 1950s group. That's because all the long time good people here
deserve a friend like Bloomfield Buddy. The Bloviator is still as
opinionated, candid, and sharp tongued as ever in the 60s and 70s
groups.
Stay well.
Ray Arthur
Aug 10, 2012, 7:02:24 PM8/10/12
to
On Aug 10, 3:14 pm, The Bloomfield Buddy <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Aug 10, 6:00 pm, BobbyM <masseybNOS...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Since Bruce is being nice & probably feels guilty about bringing it up
> > although he alluded to it, I'll be his proxy on this one. You're likely
> > to hear little if any music performed by Black artists on classic rock
> > stations. They might play the Chambers Brothers' "Time Has Come Today"
> > (everybody but the drummer was Black). These are typically the "white
> > guys with guitars" stations that Bruce & Dean talk about.
>
> That's true Bob. like MTV when it began, those stations were deathly
> afraid of attracting black listeners, fearful that their advertisers
> would not want that. Other than Jimi Hendrix, whose was the black
> leader of a band that was 2/3 white, they rarely played any music by
> any black acts. Not even black artists with some guitar rock
> credibility like Sly and the Family Stone or Prince.
>
> Somehow they have sold the white public on the idea that black music
> of the 60s (Wilson Pickett, Temptations, Sam & Dave) is not rock, but
> the white music of non rocking artists like James Taylor and Jimmy
> Buffet, is.
Without getting too far into semantical definitions, if we're talking
about AOR / Free Form in the late '60's to mid '70's many stations did
have a mix of two sub genres: album rock and folk rock. While SATFS
started charting in '68 much of their commercial music was soul/dance
oriented and didn't fit either folk rock or album rock. Plus, all the
black artists you mentioned were saturating all the Top 40 & R & B
stations and this new format was finding its own path. Prince didn't
arrive until the very later '70's. As the format morphed into
progressive and/or classic rock, its playlists became better defined.
The reality is that from the '70's through today there are very few
artists and bands of color whose music fits the now Classic Rock
format. We have two Classic Rock stations and I occasionally hear
hear Hendrix, Chambers Brothers, Prince, plus other mixed race acts
like Toto, Redbone, Santana, etc. I don't think it is or ever was a
conscious effort to be white, IMO time defined the format, and the
acts that filled the playlist happened to be mostly white.
Ray Arthur
PS
> On Aug 10, 6:00 pm, BobbyM <masseybNOS...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Since Bruce is being nice & probably feels guilty about bringing it up
> > although he alluded to it, I'll be his proxy on this one. You're likely
> > to hear little if any music performed by Black artists on classic rock
> > stations. They might play the Chambers Brothers' "Time Has Come Today"
> > (everybody but the drummer was Black). These are typically the "white
> > guys with guitars" stations that Bruce & Dean talk about.
>
> That's true Bob. like MTV when it began, those stations were deathly
> afraid of attracting black listeners, fearful that their advertisers
> would not want that. Other than Jimi Hendrix, whose was the black
> leader of a band that was 2/3 white, they rarely played any music by
> any black acts. Not even black artists with some guitar rock
> credibility like Sly and the Family Stone or Prince.
>
> Somehow they have sold the white public on the idea that black music
> of the 60s (Wilson Pickett, Temptations, Sam & Dave) is not rock, but
> the white music of non rocking artists like James Taylor and Jimmy
> Buffet, is.
Without getting too far into semantical definitions, if we're talking
about AOR / Free Form in the late '60's to mid '70's many stations did
have a mix of two sub genres: album rock and folk rock. While SATFS
started charting in '68 much of their commercial music was soul/dance
oriented and didn't fit either folk rock or album rock. Plus, all the
black artists you mentioned were saturating all the Top 40 & R & B
stations and this new format was finding its own path. Prince didn't
arrive until the very later '70's. As the format morphed into
progressive and/or classic rock, its playlists became better defined.
The reality is that from the '70's through today there are very few
artists and bands of color whose music fits the now Classic Rock
format. We have two Classic Rock stations and I occasionally hear
hear Hendrix, Chambers Brothers, Prince, plus other mixed race acts
like Toto, Redbone, Santana, etc. I don't think it is or ever was a
conscious effort to be white, IMO time defined the format, and the
acts that filled the playlist happened to be mostly white.
Ray Arthur
PS
The Bloomfield Buddy
Aug 10, 2012, 7:11:24 PM8/10/12
to
That's total hosreshit..
Why doesn't "I Want To Take You Higher" fit the "album rock" format?
It was good enough to be huge at Woodstock, why not on "album rock"
radio?
Don't be fooled by these ploys, Ray. It was all about not wanting to
attract black listeners, who at that time were not wanted by
advertisers, who perceived that blacks did not have money to spend, as
most of them were on welfare (in their bigoted minds).
There's no "musical" reason why "In The Midnight Hour" and "Cloud
Nine" and "Everyday People" and many other rock records by black acts
did not fit their format.
Do you deny that that format was designed to only attract white
listeners?
The joke in the industry for years was that AOR stood for Appartheid
Oriented Radio.
The Bloomfield Bloviator
Aug 10, 2012, 7:19:00 PM8/10/12
to
> Without getting too far into semantical definitions, if we're talking
> about AOR / Free Form in the late '60's to mid '70's many stations did
> have a mix of two sub genres: album rock and folk rock. While SATFS
> started charting in '68 much of their commercial music was soul/dance
> oriented and didn't fit either folk rock or album rock.
So why do black styles of rock like soul and funk not fit the "album"
> about AOR / Free Form in the late '60's to mid '70's many stations did
> have a mix of two sub genres: album rock and folk rock. While SATFS
> started charting in '68 much of their commercial music was soul/dance
> oriented and didn't fit either folk rock or album rock.
rock format?
Don't kid yourself, Ray. There's only one reason. They don't fit that
format because they are "black" styles of rock.
When white rock stars do records in one of those black styles, all of
a sudden they DO fit the format. Things like "Miss You" by the Stones
and "You Are In My System" by Robert Palmer were played on those
stations.
Why is Palmer's almost identical sounding version of "You Are In My
System" fit the album rock format, but the System version of the song
does not?
Why did "What A Fool Believes" fit that format, but not loads of
similar sounding records by black acts?
The whole thing is a crock, and I'm surprised that you would attempt
to defend it.
Jim Colegrove
Aug 10, 2012, 8:00:53 PM8/10/12
to
Jim Colegrove
Aug 10, 2012, 8:01:58 PM8/10/12
to
Jim Colegrove
www.thecoolgroove.com
Ray Arthur
Aug 10, 2012, 8:18:41 PM8/10/12
to
who spent 36 years on the radio and a few brief years in that format.
My experience may be anecdotal but your two thin examples, Stones and
Palmer, are reed thin. I may be incorrect but I have never heards
"What a Fool Believes" by McDonald on a Classic Rock station. Top 40
some, mostly AC.
So, you're suggesting that radio stations, who were at that time 100
percent dependent on advertising for revenue, made a conscious
decision to NOT include popular music by popular Black artists that
fit the Classic Rock format (so far, no examples) because? The black
music that fits the format would drive white listeners/advertisers
away? The additional black listeners would drive down the property
value of the transmitter shack? I can't see the conspiracy here?
Ray
Mark Dintenfass
Aug 10, 2012, 8:33:20 PM8/10/12
to
In article <q48b28h2laujncas1...@4ax.com>, Jim Colegrove
So am I. I remember vividly how frustrating it was when the wonderful
multi-genre and multi-ethnic playlists of radio stations in the middle
sixties quite quickly splintered into stations playing limited
playlists aimed at specific demographic groups, which led to the
splintering of the music itself in the 70s. Or, to put it another way,
the integrating forces in music spawned by the coming of r'n'r, and
certified by the way soul, Motown, Brit rock, California rock, pop,
folk, and even some jazz might all be played on one station during the
same hour, were reversed and a new segregated kind of radio was
spawned. The major impulse behind the change was no doubt commercial,
but the commercial considerations were obviously driven by
considerations of race, especially as black music and black performers
got caught up in the racial politics of the time.
--
--md
_________
Remove xx's from address to reply
multi-genre and multi-ethnic playlists of radio stations in the middle
sixties quite quickly splintered into stations playing limited
playlists aimed at specific demographic groups, which led to the
splintering of the music itself in the 70s. Or, to put it another way,
the integrating forces in music spawned by the coming of r'n'r, and
certified by the way soul, Motown, Brit rock, California rock, pop,
folk, and even some jazz might all be played on one station during the
same hour, were reversed and a new segregated kind of radio was
spawned. The major impulse behind the change was no doubt commercial,
but the commercial considerations were obviously driven by
considerations of race, especially as black music and black performers
got caught up in the racial politics of the time.
--
--md
_________
Remove xx's from address to reply
The Bloomfield Buddy
Aug 10, 2012, 8:39:23 PM8/10/12
to
On Aug 10, 8:18 pm, Ray Arthur <fresnof...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So, you're suggesting that radio stations, who were at that time 100
> percent dependent on advertising for revenue, made a conscious
> decision to NOT include popular music by popular Black artists that
> fit the Classic Rock format (so far, no examples) because?
And why does "Everyday People" not fit the "Clasic Rock" format?
>
> So, you're suggesting that radio stations, who were at that time 100
> percent dependent on advertising for revenue, made a conscious
> decision to NOT include popular music by popular Black artists that
> fit the Classic Rock format (so far, no examples) because?
What about "I Want To Take You Higher?" If it was good enough to be
huge at Woodstock, why would it not fir the "album rock" format?
Only one reason. It's a "black" style of rock rather than a "white"
style of rock.
The black
> music that fits the format would drive white listeners/advertisers
> away? The additional black listeners would drive down the property
> value of the transmitter shack? I can't see the conspiracy here?
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
The Bloomfield Buddy
Aug 10, 2012, 8:53:36 PM8/10/12
to
On Aug 10, 8:33 pm, Mark Dintenfass <mdintenf...@xxnew.rr.com> wrote:
> In article <q48b28h2laujncas13mrgb45f41s1em...@4ax.com>, Jim Colegrove
It's common knowledge that in those days (the late 60s) it was still
considered very bad business to feature a bkack person on a cover of a
magazine, or as the lead actor on a TV show, etc....so why would Ray
not believe that the money people who were calling te shots at these
big time radio stations felt the same way? They did not want to risk
their money on black,
I still fail to see why he thinks that the black style of rock at that
time (soul) did not fit this format, but all the white styles of rock
(folk rock, prog, metal, hard rock) did.
Did black artists not make albums?
"Album rock" is just a code word for "white rock,"
> In article <q48b28h2laujncas13mrgb45f41s1em...@4ax.com>, Jim Colegrove
considered very bad business to feature a bkack person on a cover of a
magazine, or as the lead actor on a TV show, etc....so why would Ray
not believe that the money people who were calling te shots at these
big time radio stations felt the same way? They did not want to risk
their money on black,
I still fail to see why he thinks that the black style of rock at that
time (soul) did not fit this format, but all the white styles of rock
(folk rock, prog, metal, hard rock) did.
Did black artists not make albums?
"Album rock" is just a code word for "white rock,"
Michael Pendragon
Aug 11, 2012, 12:37:56 AM8/11/12
to
On Aug 10, 7:19 pm, The Bloomfield Bloviator <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Aug 10, 7:02 pm, Ray Arthur <fresnof...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Without getting too far into semantical definitions, if we're talking
> > about AOR / Free Form in the late '60's to mid '70's many stations did
> > have a mix of two sub genres: album rock and folk rock. While SATFS
> > started charting in '68 much of their commercial music was soul/dance
> > oriented and didn't fit either folk rock or album rock.
>
> So why do black styles of rock like soul and funk not fit the "album"
> rock format?
You've just answered your own question: because they're "soul" and
> On Aug 10, 7:02 pm, Ray Arthur <fresnof...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Without getting too far into semantical definitions, if we're talking
> > about AOR / Free Form in the late '60's to mid '70's many stations did
> > have a mix of two sub genres: album rock and folk rock. While SATFS
> > started charting in '68 much of their commercial music was soul/dance
> > oriented and didn't fit either folk rock or album rock.
>
> So why do black styles of rock like soul and funk not fit the "album"
> rock format?
"funk."
Bob Roman
Aug 11, 2012, 12:38:08 AM8/11/12
to
On Aug 10, 12:11 pm, The Bloomfield Buddy <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
> Buddy is only operating in
> the 1950s group. That's because all the long time good people here
> deserve a friend like Bloomfield Buddy. The Bloviator is still as
> opinionated, candid, and sharp tongued as ever in the 60s and 70s
> groups.
It doesn't matter if we notice or appreciate the difference between
> Buddy is only operating in
> the 1950s group. That's because all the long time good people here
> deserve a friend like Bloomfield Buddy. The Bloviator is still as
> opinionated, candid, and sharp tongued as ever in the 60s and 70s
> groups.
your personas. All that matters is what glows off the computer
screen.
--
BR
The Bloomfield Buddy
Aug 11, 2012, 1:01:51 AM8/11/12
to
On Aug 11, 12:37 am, Michael Pendragon
Soul and funk are sub-genres of rock. Just as much a part of rock as
heavy metal, progressive, new wave, punk and folk rock, all of which
are played at least some on classic rock stations.
heavy metal, progressive, new wave, punk and folk rock, all of which
are played at least some on classic rock stations.
Michael Pendragon
Aug 11, 2012, 1:53:41 AM8/11/12
to
Punk rock and folk rock are obviously sub-genres of rock. I'm not
sure what new wave and progressive are. Heavy Metal is only
orchestrated noise -- although I suppose its rock origins are still
evident.
Way Back Jack
Aug 12, 2012, 9:20:28 PM8/12/12
to
"SixStringStu" <hawkinnc...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:k00ao3$n8h$1...@dont-email.me:
>
> Thank you for the very biased opinion
By definition, all opinions are biased.
That's why they are called opinions.....DUMBO.
> but I was looking for educated honesty.
SixStringStu, the criminal, pathological liar and self-proclaimed
sociopath, who has several felony arrests and who was locked up by the Feds
in a loony bin, is demanding honesty.
Now tell me that isn't a fucking hoot.
news:k00ao3$n8h$1...@dont-email.me:
>
> Thank you for the very biased opinion
By definition, all opinions are biased.
That's why they are called opinions.....DUMBO.
> but I was looking for educated honesty.
SixStringStu, the criminal, pathological liar and self-proclaimed
sociopath, who has several felony arrests and who was locked up by the Feds
in a loony bin, is demanding honesty.
Now tell me that isn't a fucking hoot.
Way Back Jack
Aug 12, 2012, 9:35:44 PM8/12/12
to
"SixStringStu" <hawkinnc...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:k00bre$tfe$1...@dont-email.me:
>
> But seriously, was it called AOR back then , or was the label given
> post period? I seem to remember the old folks calling it "that damned
> Rock and Roll". Me and my friends called it Rock and "Roll" seemed to
> be used less.
Me and my friends???
It's too bad that you weren't given a book on English grammar to study when
you were locked up by the Feds in a loony bin. What exactly did you do
other than rape your cellmate and and watch cartoons?
news:k00bre$tfe$1...@dont-email.me:
>
> But seriously, was it called AOR back then , or was the label given
> Rock and Roll". Me and my friends called it Rock and "Roll" seemed to
> be used less.
Me and my friends???
It's too bad that you weren't given a book on English grammar to study when
you were locked up by the Feds in a loony bin. What exactly did you do
other than rape your cellmate and and watch cartoons?
The Bloomfield Buddy
Aug 14, 2012, 3:54:59 PM8/14/12
to
On Aug 8, 11:54 pm, "Dean F." <soulexpr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm surprised that song #71 cites Wynonie Harris only. Didn't you
> consider Elvis' remake worthy of inclusion as well?
Dean, you'll be glad to know i thought about this and decided to add
Elvis as the second artist for this entry. I just sent the info to
Lew, should be listed that way by tomorrow, maybe sooner.
> I'm surprised that song #71 cites Wynonie Harris only. Didn't you
> consider Elvis' remake worthy of inclusion as well?
Dean, you'll be glad to know i thought about this and decided to add
Elvis as the second artist for this entry. I just sent the info to
Lew, should be listed that way by tomorrow, maybe sooner.
Michael Pendragon
Aug 14, 2012, 4:19:37 PM8/14/12
to
on the Hot 100 charts -- which is a damn sight more than Wynonie
Harris and Elvis Presley's versions combined.
The Bloomfield Buddy
Aug 14, 2012, 4:37:40 PM8/14/12
to
On Aug 14, 4:19 pm, Michael Pendragon
No thanks. Wynonie's would have been bigger than that if Billboard had
more than a top 30 in 1948, or if they counted R&B locations towards
their pop chart listings.
If I added a third version it would be the Roy Brown original which
was a hit in 1947.
more than a top 30 in 1948, or if they counted R&B locations towards
their pop chart listings.
If I added a third version it would be the Roy Brown original which
was a hit in 1947.
Michael Pendragon
Aug 14, 2012, 11:39:19 PM8/14/12
to
research over the past 10 years and have yet to find one shred of
credible evidence that Wynonie Harris was known outside of the "race"
market.
> If I added a third version it would be the Roy Brown original which
> was a hit in 1947.
The Bloomfield Buddy
Aug 15, 2012, 12:22:03 AM8/15/12
to
On Aug 14, 11:39 pm, Michael Pendragon
is the lead singer of this record that was top ten on the pop chart in
1945.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmkcAgRGPV8
Lucky Millinder Orchestra feat. Wynonie Harris.
He was even known by whites in the UK, as evidenced by an interview
with Eric Burdon, who talks of being influenced by a Wynonie record
(Bloodshot Eyes) when he was a young kid, hearing a neighbor blast it
all the time.
Clearly he was popular with Presley.
A friend of mine in high school had the 78, from his father's
collection. That;s in an all white town called Paramus, I'm sure you
know it.
<michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "Would have" is speculation on your part. I've done quite a lot of
> research over the past 10 years and have yet to find one shred of
> credible evidence that Wynonie Harris was known outside of the "race"
> market.
I have to say that your research is lacking some then, because Wynonie
>
> "Would have" is speculation on your part. I've done quite a lot of
> research over the past 10 years and have yet to find one shred of
> credible evidence that Wynonie Harris was known outside of the "race"
> market.
is the lead singer of this record that was top ten on the pop chart in
1945.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmkcAgRGPV8
Lucky Millinder Orchestra feat. Wynonie Harris.
He was even known by whites in the UK, as evidenced by an interview
with Eric Burdon, who talks of being influenced by a Wynonie record
(Bloodshot Eyes) when he was a young kid, hearing a neighbor blast it
all the time.
Clearly he was popular with Presley.
A friend of mine in high school had the 78, from his father's
collection. That;s in an all white town called Paramus, I'm sure you
know it.
Dean F.
Aug 15, 2012, 1:20:57 AM8/15/12
to
On Aug 15, 12:22 am, The Bloomfield Buddy <savo...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > "Would have" is speculation on your part. I've done quite a lot of
> > research over the past 10 years and have yet to find one shred of
> > credible evidence that Wynonie Harris was known outside of the "race"
> > market.
>
> I have to say that your research is lacking some then, because Wynonie
> is the lead singer of this record that was top ten on the pop chart in
> 1945.
Pendragon is undoubtedly one of those "researchers" who begins with a
> > "Would have" is speculation on your part. I've done quite a lot of
> > research over the past 10 years and have yet to find one shred of
> > credible evidence that Wynonie Harris was known outside of the "race"
> > market.
>
> I have to say that your research is lacking some then, because Wynonie
> is the lead singer of this record that was top ten on the pop chart in
> 1945.
foregone conclusion and seeks evidence to back it up. And if he comes
across evidence that fly in the face of his pet theory, he either
ignores it completely or dismisses it as unreliable or irrelevant.
Holocaust deniers, Kennedy assassination buffs, those who insist that
the 1969 moon landing was faked, and more recently 9/11 "Truthers" are
all notorious for that crap.
Message has been deleted
The Bloomfield Bloviator
Aug 15, 2012, 1:56:04 AM8/15/12
to
On Aug 15, 1:49 am, poisoned rose <pro...@poisonedrose.com> wrote:
Check out my lists on DDD and show me where I ignore evidence and push
my favorites.
There's only two Fats Domino things (my favorite artist) on the "300
Greatest Rock Songs" list, and there will not be any added when we
expand to 500 songs next year.
But there are lots of songs that I can't stand that I put on that
list.
> "Dean F." <soulexpr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Pendragon is undoubtedly one of those "researchers" who begins with a
> > foregone conclusion and seeks evidence to back it up. And if he comes
> > across evidence that fly in the face of his pet theory, he either
> > ignores it completely or dismisses it as unreliable or irrelevant.
>
> You mean like Bruce?
> > Pendragon is undoubtedly one of those "researchers" who begins with a
> > foregone conclusion and seeks evidence to back it up. And if he comes
> > across evidence that fly in the face of his pet theory, he either
> > ignores it completely or dismisses it as unreliable or irrelevant.
>
Check out my lists on DDD and show me where I ignore evidence and push
my favorites.
There's only two Fats Domino things (my favorite artist) on the "300
Greatest Rock Songs" list, and there will not be any added when we
expand to 500 songs next year.
But there are lots of songs that I can't stand that I put on that
list.
Message has been deleted
Dean F.
Aug 15, 2012, 5:24:59 AM8/15/12
to
On Aug 15, 1:49 am, poisoned rose <pro...@poisonedrose.com> wrote:
> "Dean F." <soulexpr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Dean F." <soulexpr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Pendragon is undoubtedly one of those "researchers" who begins with a
> > foregone conclusion and seeks evidence to back it up. And if he comes
> > across evidence that fly in the face of his pet theory, he either
> > ignores it completely or dismisses it as unreliable or irrelevant.
>
> You mean like Bruce?
> > foregone conclusion and seeks evidence to back it up. And if he comes
> > across evidence that fly in the face of his pet theory, he either
> > ignores it completely or dismisses it as unreliable or irrelevant.
>
Pot calls kettle black! Film at eleven.
Michael Pendragon
Aug 15, 2012, 9:09:20 AM8/15/12
to
On Aug 15, 12:22 am, The Bloomfield Buddy <savo...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Aug 14, 11:39 pm, Michael Pendragon
>
> <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "Would have" is speculation on your part. I've done quite a lot of
> > research over the past 10 years and have yet to find one shred of
> > credible evidence that Wynonie Harris was known outside of the "race"
> > market.
>
> I have to say that your research is lacking some then, because Wynonie
> is the lead singer of this record that was top ten on the pop chart in
> 1945.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmkcAgRGPV8
>
> Lucky Millinder Orchestra feat. Wynonie Harris.
Here's the 3rd User Comment that appears under your link:
>
> <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "Would have" is speculation on your part. I've done quite a lot of
> > research over the past 10 years and have yet to find one shred of
> > credible evidence that Wynonie Harris was known outside of the "race"
> > market.
>
> I have to say that your research is lacking some then, because Wynonie
> is the lead singer of this record that was top ten on the pop chart in
> 1945.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmkcAgRGPV8
>
> Lucky Millinder Orchestra feat. Wynonie Harris.
"NEVER heard of HIM or this SONG"
ShayW125 3 years ago
> He was even known by whites in the UK, as evidenced by an interview
> with Eric Burdon, who talks of being influenced by a Wynonie record
> (Bloodshot Eyes) when he was a young kid, hearing a neighbor blast it
> all the time.
neighbors have heard me blasting a lot records you'd deem obscure.
> Clearly he was popular with Presley.
The fact that Elvis recorded the song, doesn't mean he liked, or even
heard of, the original. Remember how he was inspired to record Hound
Dog from having heard Freddie Bell & The Bellboys perform it -- and
*not* from BMT's r&b record.
> A friend of mine in high school had the 78, from his father's
> collection. That;s in an all white town called Paramus, I'm sure you
> know it.
My family's old 78s had a few obscurities amongst them as well. I'm
still trying to find a digital copy of Skip Nelson's "The Ferris
Wheel" and Texas Jim Robertson's "Headin' Down the Wrong Highway."
Michael Pendragon
Aug 15, 2012, 9:20:42 AM8/15/12
to
Amazon: "Sad to say that Wynonie died of cancer in 1969 in relative
obscurity and lack of wealth."
http://www.amazon.com/Good-Rockin-Tonight-Wynonie-Harris/dp/B0012IPYOG
From a site reviewing Nick Tosches' "Unsung Heroes of Rock 'n' Roll":
"Wynonie Harris – The man Elvis stole most of his stage swagger from.
Drank himself to death and died penniless and forgotten in the summer
of 1969. Didn’t make it."
http://figmentcity.wordpress.com/2012/08/07/unsung-heroes-of-rocknroll/
From a music site article/bio: "After the mid fifties he remained
largely unknown to the general public, and passed away in relative
obscurity in 1966."
http://home.earthlink.net/~jaymar41/luckym.html
From an article in The Halifax Commoner: "Harris saw little of the
[r'n'r] action. He continued to tour in relative obscurity until his
death from cancer in 1969."
http://thecommoner.kingsjournalism.com/?p=4155
You starting to sense a pattern here?
The Bloomfield Buddy
Aug 15, 2012, 10:10:49 AM8/15/12
to
On Aug 15, 9:09 am, Michael Pendragon
probably don't know the song. It's a top ten pop chart hit, and YOU
didn;t know it.
> > He was even known by whites in the UK, as evidenced by an interview
> > with Eric Burdon, who talks of being influenced by a Wynonie record
> > (Bloodshot Eyes) when he was a young kid, hearing a neighbor blast it
> > all the time.
>
> All that proves is that Mr. Burdon's neighbor had odd tastes. My
> neighbors have heard me blasting a lot records you'd deem obscure.
>
> > Clearly he was popular with Presley.
>
> Clearly? Could you show me some actual proof of this?
See the A side of Elvis's second single.
> The fact that Elvis recorded the song, doesn't mean he liked, or even
> heard of, the original. Remember how he was inspired to record Hound
> Dog from having heard Freddie Bell & The Bellboys perform it -- and
> *not* from BMT's r&b record.
The Harris is not the original.
From the book "Catalyst - The Sun Records Story"
page 9
He (Elvis) also liked hillbilly, country boogie, and of course the
powerful early 50s R&B typified by Wynonie Harris, Arthur Crudup and
Big Mama Thornton.
Page 10
For his second release "Presley chose" (songwriter) Roy Brown's "Good
Rockin' Tonight," which had been a bigger hit for Wynonie Harris in
1948.
KEY WORDS - Presley chose.
It was his idea to do the song, which means he was familiar with it.
>
> > A friend of mine in high school had the 78, from his father's
> > collection. That;s in an all white town called Paramus, I'm sure you
> > know it.
>
> Yes, I've been there once or twice.
>
> My family's old 78s had a few obscurities amongst them as well. I'm
> still trying to find a digital copy of Skip Nelson's "The Ferris
> Wheel" and Texas Jim Robertson's "Headin' Down the Wrong Highway."- Hide quoted text -
<michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 15, 12:22 am, The Bloomfield Buddy <savo...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 14, 11:39 pm, Michael Pendragon
>
> > <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Would have" is speculation on your part. I've done quite a lot of
> > > research over the past 10 years and have yet to find one shred of
> > > credible evidence that Wynonie Harris was known outside of the "race"
> > > market.
>
> > I have to say that your research is lacking some then, because Wynonie
> > is the lead singer of this record that was top ten on the pop chart in
> > 1945.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmkcAgRGPV8
>
> > Lucky Millinder Orchestra feat. Wynonie Harris.
>
> Here's the 3rd User Comment that appears under your link:
>
> "NEVER heard of HIM or this SONG"
> ShayW125 3 years ago
The song is from 1945. Unless you were born in 1935 or earlier, you
> On Aug 15, 12:22 am, The Bloomfield Buddy <savo...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 14, 11:39 pm, Michael Pendragon
>
> > <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Would have" is speculation on your part. I've done quite a lot of
> > > research over the past 10 years and have yet to find one shred of
> > > credible evidence that Wynonie Harris was known outside of the "race"
> > > market.
>
> > I have to say that your research is lacking some then, because Wynonie
> > is the lead singer of this record that was top ten on the pop chart in
> > 1945.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmkcAgRGPV8
>
> > Lucky Millinder Orchestra feat. Wynonie Harris.
>
> Here's the 3rd User Comment that appears under your link:
>
> "NEVER heard of HIM or this SONG"
> ShayW125 3 years ago
probably don't know the song. It's a top ten pop chart hit, and YOU
didn;t know it.
> > He was even known by whites in the UK, as evidenced by an interview
> > with Eric Burdon, who talks of being influenced by a Wynonie record
> > (Bloodshot Eyes) when he was a young kid, hearing a neighbor blast it
> > all the time.
>
> All that proves is that Mr. Burdon's neighbor had odd tastes. My
> neighbors have heard me blasting a lot records you'd deem obscure.
>
> > Clearly he was popular with Presley.
>
> Clearly? Could you show me some actual proof of this?
> The fact that Elvis recorded the song, doesn't mean he liked, or even
> heard of, the original. Remember how he was inspired to record Hound
> Dog from having heard Freddie Bell & The Bellboys perform it -- and
> *not* from BMT's r&b record.
From the book "Catalyst - The Sun Records Story"
page 9
He (Elvis) also liked hillbilly, country boogie, and of course the
powerful early 50s R&B typified by Wynonie Harris, Arthur Crudup and
Big Mama Thornton.
Page 10
For his second release "Presley chose" (songwriter) Roy Brown's "Good
Rockin' Tonight," which had been a bigger hit for Wynonie Harris in
1948.
KEY WORDS - Presley chose.
It was his idea to do the song, which means he was familiar with it.
>
> > A friend of mine in high school had the 78, from his father's
> > collection. That;s in an all white town called Paramus, I'm sure you
> > know it.
>
> Yes, I've been there once or twice.
>
> My family's old 78s had a few obscurities amongst them as well. I'm
> still trying to find a digital copy of Skip Nelson's "The Ferris
The Bloomfield Buddy
Aug 15, 2012, 10:15:26 AM8/15/12
to
On Aug 15, 9:20 am, Michael Pendragon
Yes, these indicate a pattern:
Wynonie Harris – The man Elvis stole most of his stage swagger from.
and known in the 40s and eatly 50s, he did not maintain that due to
the lifestyle he led, he no longer sounded very good.
For Elvis to have stolen most of his stage swagger from Wynonie, he
must have seen him in person, correct? I would venture to guess that
if he saw him in person, that he heard of him, no?
Wynonie Harris – The man Elvis stole most of his stage swagger from.
After the mid fifties he remained largely unknown to the general
public,
Translation, he was a big influence on Elvis, and while he was popular
public,
and known in the 40s and eatly 50s, he did not maintain that due to
the lifestyle he led, he no longer sounded very good.
For Elvis to have stolen most of his stage swagger from Wynonie, he
must have seen him in person, correct? I would venture to guess that
if he saw him in person, that he heard of him, no?
The Bloomfield Bloviator
Aug 15, 2012, 10:34:38 AM8/15/12
to
On Aug 15, 9:09 am, Michael Pendragon
posted one of the comments, though. You neglected to post some of the
others.
Here's the first comment:
Listen to his 'Good morning Judge', still hear it in dance halls 1-2x
a week.
Uptownsort - 2 years ago.
And the last comment.
Fabulous voice, I love the oldies too x
Catnapism - 2 years ago
One more:
Great song! Give me random thumbs upps if you think this song is rly
good!
Dennisjoon - 8 months ago
<michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 15, 12:22 am, The Bloomfield Buddy <savo...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 14, 11:39 pm, Michael Pendragon
>
> > <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Would have" is speculation on your part. I've done quite a lot of
> > > research over the past 10 years and have yet to find one shred of
> > > credible evidence that Wynonie Harris was known outside of the "race"
> > > market.
>
> > I have to say that your research is lacking some then, because Wynonie
> > is the lead singer of this record that was top ten on the pop chart in
> > 1945.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmkcAgRGPV8
>
> > Lucky Millinder Orchestra feat. Wynonie Harris.
>
> Here's the 3rd User Comment that appears under your link:
>
> "NEVER heard of HIM or this SONG"
> ShayW125 3 years ago
Nice of you to post that comment for us. I'm wondering why you only
> On Aug 15, 12:22 am, The Bloomfield Buddy <savo...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 14, 11:39 pm, Michael Pendragon
>
> > <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Would have" is speculation on your part. I've done quite a lot of
> > > research over the past 10 years and have yet to find one shred of
> > > credible evidence that Wynonie Harris was known outside of the "race"
> > > market.
>
> > I have to say that your research is lacking some then, because Wynonie
> > is the lead singer of this record that was top ten on the pop chart in
> > 1945.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmkcAgRGPV8
>
> > Lucky Millinder Orchestra feat. Wynonie Harris.
>
> Here's the 3rd User Comment that appears under your link:
>
> "NEVER heard of HIM or this SONG"
> ShayW125 3 years ago
posted one of the comments, though. You neglected to post some of the
others.
Here's the first comment:
Listen to his 'Good morning Judge', still hear it in dance halls 1-2x
a week.
Uptownsort - 2 years ago.
And the last comment.
Fabulous voice, I love the oldies too x
Catnapism - 2 years ago
One more:
Great song! Give me random thumbs upps if you think this song is rly
good!
Dennisjoon - 8 months ago
Michael Pendragon
Aug 15, 2012, 11:24:34 AM8/15/12
to
typical of fans trying to make a case for a nobody.
> After the mid fifties he remained largely unknown to the general
> public,
>
> Translation, he was a big influence on Elvis, and while he was popular
> and known in the 40s and eatly 50s, he did not maintain that due to
> the lifestyle he led, he no longer sounded very good.
remain unknown.
> For Elvis to have stolen most of his stage swagger from Wynonie, he
> must have seen him in person, correct? I would venture to guess that
> if he saw him in person, that he heard of him, no?
Before you can surmise that Mr. Presley "must have seen him in
person," you first have to establish (beyond a reasonable doubt) that
he "stole" from him in the first place.
Michael Pendragon
Aug 15, 2012, 11:36:45 AM8/15/12
to
On Aug 15, 10:34 am, The Bloomfield Bloviator <savo...@verizon.net>
wrote:
Let's see if we can't figure it out:
> Here's the first comment:
>
> Listen to his 'Good morning Judge', still hear it in dance halls 1-2x
> a week.
> Uptownsort - 2 years ago.
Uptownsort claims to hear this song in "dance halls"? Dance halls???
Come on.
Not only does Uptownsort frequent "dance halls," but he/she does so at
least 1-2x a week (more unless he/she hears "Good Morning Judge"
played *every* time he/she goes out dancing).
I doubt they even play it at the dances Tom attends.
> And the last comment.
>
> Fabulous voice, I love the oldies too x
> Catnapism - 2 years ago
Catnapism loves the oldies. Whoop-de-dam-do. That says a lot about
Mr. Harris' past or lasting fame.
> One more:
>
> Great song! Give me random thumbs upps if you think this song is rly
> good!
> Dennisjoon - 8 months ago
Another resounding W-d-d-d. Dennisjoon thinks the song is really
good.
So let's tally up the omitted quotes:
1 person claims to hear an even more obscure record by Mr. Harris
played in "dance halls" twice a week, and 2 other people commented
that they liked hearing the song that TimmyJ posted.
Not exactly worth bothering about, n'est-ce pas?
wrote:
> On Aug 15, 9:09 am, Michael Pendragon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 15, 12:22 am, The Bloomfield Buddy <savo...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 14, 11:39 pm, Michael Pendragon
>
> > > <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > "Would have" is speculation on your part. I've done quite a lot of
> > > > research over the past 10 years and have yet to find one shred of
> > > > credible evidence that Wynonie Harris was known outside of the "race"
> > > > market.
>
> > > I have to say that your research is lacking some then, because Wynonie
> > > is the lead singer of this record that was top ten on the pop chart in
> > > 1945.
>
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmkcAgRGPV8
>
> > > Lucky Millinder Orchestra feat. Wynonie Harris.
>
> > Here's the 3rd User Comment that appears under your link:
>
> > "NEVER heard of HIM or this SONG"
> > ShayW125 3 years ago
>
> Nice of you to post that comment for us. I'm wondering why you only
> posted one of the comments, though. You neglected to post some of the
> others.
Wondering? Really?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 15, 12:22 am, The Bloomfield Buddy <savo...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 14, 11:39 pm, Michael Pendragon
>
> > > <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > "Would have" is speculation on your part. I've done quite a lot of
> > > > research over the past 10 years and have yet to find one shred of
> > > > credible evidence that Wynonie Harris was known outside of the "race"
> > > > market.
>
> > > I have to say that your research is lacking some then, because Wynonie
> > > is the lead singer of this record that was top ten on the pop chart in
> > > 1945.
>
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmkcAgRGPV8
>
> > > Lucky Millinder Orchestra feat. Wynonie Harris.
>
> > Here's the 3rd User Comment that appears under your link:
>
> > "NEVER heard of HIM or this SONG"
> > ShayW125 3 years ago
>
> Nice of you to post that comment for us. I'm wondering why you only
> posted one of the comments, though. You neglected to post some of the
> others.
Let's see if we can't figure it out:
> Here's the first comment:
>
> Listen to his 'Good morning Judge', still hear it in dance halls 1-2x
> a week.
> Uptownsort - 2 years ago.
Come on.
Not only does Uptownsort frequent "dance halls," but he/she does so at
least 1-2x a week (more unless he/she hears "Good Morning Judge"
played *every* time he/she goes out dancing).
I doubt they even play it at the dances Tom attends.
> And the last comment.
>
> Fabulous voice, I love the oldies too x
> Catnapism - 2 years ago
Mr. Harris' past or lasting fame.
> One more:
>
> Great song! Give me random thumbs upps if you think this song is rly
> good!
> Dennisjoon - 8 months ago
good.
So let's tally up the omitted quotes:
1 person claims to hear an even more obscure record by Mr. Harris
played in "dance halls" twice a week, and 2 other people commented
that they liked hearing the song that TimmyJ posted.
Not exactly worth bothering about, n'est-ce pas?
The Bloomfield Buddy
Aug 15, 2012, 11:54:57 AM8/15/12
to
On Aug 15, 11:36 am, Michael Pendragon
But this one was significant?
xpen...@gmail.com
Aug 15, 2012, 1:45:57 PM8/15/12
to
On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:39:19 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
<michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Aug 14, 4:37�pm, The Bloomfield Buddy <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 14, 4:19�pm, Michael Pendragon
>>
>> <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Aug 14, 3:54�pm, The Bloomfield Buddy <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > On Aug 8, 11:54�pm, "Dean F." <soulexpr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > I'm surprised that song #71 cites Wynonie Harris only. Didn't you
>> > > > consider Elvis' remake worthy of inclusion as well?
>>
>> > > Dean, you'll be glad to know i thought about this and decided to add
>> > > Elvis as the second artist for this entry. I just sent the info to
>> > > Lew, should be listed that way by tomorrow, maybe sooner.
>>
>> > You might also want to list Pat Boone's version which hit the #49 spot
>> > on the Hot 100 charts -- which is a damn sight more than Wynonie
>> > Harris and Elvis Presley's versions combined.
>>
>> No thanks. Wynonie's would have been bigger than that if Billboard had
>> more than a top 30 in 1948, or if they counted R&B locations towards
>> their pop chart listings.
>
>"Would have" is speculation on your part. I've done quite a lot of
>research over the past 10 years and have yet to find one shred of
>credible evidence that Wynonie Harris was known outside of the "race"
>market.
Elvis Presley knew WH. People like Dewey Phillips, Hunter Hancock etc
<michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Aug 14, 4:37�pm, The Bloomfield Buddy <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 14, 4:19�pm, Michael Pendragon
>>
>> <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Aug 14, 3:54�pm, The Bloomfield Buddy <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > On Aug 8, 11:54�pm, "Dean F." <soulexpr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > I'm surprised that song #71 cites Wynonie Harris only. Didn't you
>> > > > consider Elvis' remake worthy of inclusion as well?
>>
>> > > Dean, you'll be glad to know i thought about this and decided to add
>> > > Elvis as the second artist for this entry. I just sent the info to
>> > > Lew, should be listed that way by tomorrow, maybe sooner.
>>
>> > You might also want to list Pat Boone's version which hit the #49 spot
>> > on the Hot 100 charts -- which is a damn sight more than Wynonie
>> > Harris and Elvis Presley's versions combined.
>>
>> No thanks. Wynonie's would have been bigger than that if Billboard had
>> more than a top 30 in 1948, or if they counted R&B locations towards
>> their pop chart listings.
>
>"Would have" is speculation on your part. I've done quite a lot of
>research over the past 10 years and have yet to find one shred of
>credible evidence that Wynonie Harris was known outside of the "race"
>market.
that had highly popular radio shows knew WH too.
xpen...@gmail.com
Aug 15, 2012, 1:55:05 PM8/15/12
to
On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 06:09:20 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
<michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Aug 15, 12:22�am, The Bloomfield Buddy <savo...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Aug 14, 11:39�pm, Michael Pendragon
>>
>> <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > "Would have" is speculation on your part. �I've done quite a lot of
>> > research over the past 10 years and have yet to find one shred of
>> > credible evidence that Wynonie Harris was known outside of the "race"
>> > market.
>>
>> I have to say that your research is lacking some then, because Wynonie
>> is the lead singer of this record that was top ten on the pop chart in
>> 1945.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmkcAgRGPV8
>>
>> Lucky Millinder Orchestra feat. Wynonie Harris.
>
>Here's the 3rd User Comment that appears under your link:
>
>"NEVER? heard of HIM or this SONG"
<michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Aug 15, 12:22�am, The Bloomfield Buddy <savo...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Aug 14, 11:39�pm, Michael Pendragon
>>
>> <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > "Would have" is speculation on your part. �I've done quite a lot of
>> > research over the past 10 years and have yet to find one shred of
>> > credible evidence that Wynonie Harris was known outside of the "race"
>> > market.
>>
>> I have to say that your research is lacking some then, because Wynonie
>> is the lead singer of this record that was top ten on the pop chart in
>> 1945.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmkcAgRGPV8
>>
>> Lucky Millinder Orchestra feat. Wynonie Harris.
>
>Here's the 3rd User Comment that appears under your link:
>
>ShayW125 3 years ago
>
>> He was even known by whites in the UK, as evidenced by an interview
>> with Eric Burdon, who talks of being influenced by a Wynonie record
>> (Bloodshot Eyes) when he was a young kid, hearing a neighbor blast it
>> all the time.
>
>All that proves is that Mr. Burdon's neighbor had odd tastes. My
>neighbors have heard me blasting a lot records you'd deem obscure.
>
>> Clearly he was popular with Presley.
>
>Clearly? Could you show me some actual proof of this?
EP was a big fan of Dewey Phillips Red, Hot and Blue radio show and WH
>
>> He was even known by whites in the UK, as evidenced by an interview
>> with Eric Burdon, who talks of being influenced by a Wynonie record
>> (Bloodshot Eyes) when he was a young kid, hearing a neighbor blast it
>> all the time.
>
>All that proves is that Mr. Burdon's neighbor had odd tastes. My
>neighbors have heard me blasting a lot records you'd deem obscure.
>
>> Clearly he was popular with Presley.
>
>Clearly? Could you show me some actual proof of this?
is the brand of music that he (DP) played.
>
>The fact that Elvis recorded the song, doesn't mean he liked, or even
>heard of, the original.
Again EP was a big fan of Dewey Phillips Red, Hot and Blue radio show
>The fact that Elvis recorded the song, doesn't mean he liked, or even
>heard of, the original.
and WH is the brand of music that he (DP) played.
xpen...@gmail.com
Aug 15, 2012, 1:57:27 PM8/15/12
to
Roger Ford
Aug 15, 2012, 2:23:31 PM8/15/12
to
On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 07:15:26 -0700 (PDT), The Bloomfield Buddy
<sav...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Aug 15, 9:20=A0am, Michael Pendragon
><michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 15, 1:20=A0am, "Dean F." <soulexpr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Aug 15, 12:22=A0am, The Bloomfield Buddy <savo...@verizon.net> wrote=
>:
>>
>> > > > "Would have" is speculation on your part. =A0I've done quite a lot =
>e"
>> > > > market.
>>
>> > > I have to say that your research is lacking some then, because Wynoni=
>e
>> > > is the lead singer of this record that was top ten on the pop chart i=
P. 112
"According to Jimmy Evans Jr (the son of Wynonie's long time manager)
one white spectator who saw Wynonie's act in Memphis was a young truck
driver and budding singer by the name of Elvis Presley"Every time
Jimmy would bring the show into that area Elvis would come to see the
show and he was such a fan that Jimmy used to let him,get him in to
the evening show. 'Cause see,they had whites in the afternoon and the
blacks would be like the midnight show. Now they had segregation in
those days. You couldn't mingle. And Elvis was the one,he always let
him in. And he'd sneak in and Jimmy would let him in the back and he'd
step in the balcony and he'd be cwatching that. 'Cause he copied
Wynonie's every move. 'He used to be watching him' he says,'and he
copied everything Wynonie did.' Henry Glover supports that claim.
"Presley copied many of the vocal gymnastics of Wynonie Harris as well
as the physical gyrations" he has said. "when you saw Elvis you were
seeing a mild version of Wynonie." Unfortunately there is no surviving
footage of Wynonie's stage act for comparison,but there is every
likelihood that Elvis did watch Wynonie for he regularly went to see
blues musicians at work. Memphis bluesmen B.B King and Billy "The Kid"
Emerson remember Elvis hanging around the black clubs on Beale Street
at this time.The evidence of recordings also shows that Elvis listened
to Wynonie. His second single for Sun Records recorded in 1954 was a
version of "Good Rockin' Tonight""
ROGER FORD
-----------------------
"Spam Free Zone" - to combat unwanted automatic spamming I have added
an extra "b" in my e-mail address (mari...@bblueyonder.co.uk).
Please delete same before responding.Thank you!
<sav...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Aug 15, 9:20=A0am, Michael Pendragon
><michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 15, 1:20=A0am, "Dean F." <soulexpr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Aug 15, 12:22=A0am, The Bloomfield Buddy <savo...@verizon.net> wrote=
>:
>>
>> > > > "Would have" is speculation on your part. =A0I've done quite a lot =
>of
>> > > > research over the past 10 years and have yet to find one shred of
>> > > > credible evidence that Wynonie Harris was known outside of the "rac=
>> > > > research over the past 10 years and have yet to find one shred of
>e"
>> > > > market.
>>
>> > > I have to say that your research is lacking some then, because Wynoni=
>e
>> > > is the lead singer of this record that was top ten on the pop chart i=
>n
>> > > 1945.
>>
>> > Pendragon is undoubtedly one of those "researchers" who begins with a
>> > foregone conclusion and seeks evidence to back it up. And if he comes
>> > across evidence that fly in the face of his pet theory, he either
>> > ignores it completely or dismisses it as unreliable or irrelevant.
>> > Holocaust deniers, Kennedy assassination buffs, those who insist that
>> > the 1969 moon landing was faked, and more recently 9/11 "Truthers" are
>> > all notorious for that crap.
>>
>> From the first customer review for one of Mr. Harris' albums at
>> Amazon: "Sad to say that Wynonie died of cancer in 1969 in relative
>> obscurity and lack of wealth."http://www.amazon.com/Good-Rockin-Tonight-W=
>> > > 1945.
>>
>> > Pendragon is undoubtedly one of those "researchers" who begins with a
>> > foregone conclusion and seeks evidence to back it up. And if he comes
>> > across evidence that fly in the face of his pet theory, he either
>> > ignores it completely or dismisses it as unreliable or irrelevant.
>> > Holocaust deniers, Kennedy assassination buffs, those who insist that
>> > the 1969 moon landing was faked, and more recently 9/11 "Truthers" are
>> > all notorious for that crap.
>>
>> From the first customer review for one of Mr. Harris' albums at
>> Amazon: "Sad to say that Wynonie died of cancer in 1969 in relative
>ynonie-Harris/dp/B0012IPYOG
>>
>> From a site reviewing Nick Tosches' "Unsung Heroes of Rock 'n' Roll":
>> "Wynonie Harris =96 The man Elvis stole most of his stage swagger from.
>>
>> From a site reviewing Nick Tosches' "Unsung Heroes of Rock 'n' Roll":
>> Drank himself to death and died penniless and forgotten in the summer
>> of 1969. Didn=92t make it."http://figmentcity.wordpress.com/2012/08/07/un=
>sung-heroes-of-rocknroll/
>>
>> From a music site article/bio: "After the mid fifties he remained
>> largely unknown to the general public, and passed away in relative
>> obscurity in 1966."http://home.earthlink.net/~jaymar41/luckym.html
>>
>> From an article in The Halifax Commoner: "Harris saw little of the
>> [r'n'r] action. He continued to tour in relative obscurity until his
>> death from cancer in 1969."http://thecommoner.kingsjournalism.com/?p=3D41=
>>
>> From a music site article/bio: "After the mid fifties he remained
>> largely unknown to the general public, and passed away in relative
>> obscurity in 1966."http://home.earthlink.net/~jaymar41/luckym.html
>>
>> From an article in The Halifax Commoner: "Harris saw little of the
>> [r'n'r] action. He continued to tour in relative obscurity until his
>55
>>
>> You starting to sense a pattern here?
>
>Yes, these indicate a pattern:
>
>Wynonie Harris =96 The man Elvis stole most of his stage swagger from.
>>
>> You starting to sense a pattern here?
>
>Yes, these indicate a pattern:
>
>
>After the mid fifties he remained largely unknown to the general
>public,
>
>Translation, he was a big influence on Elvis, and while he was popular
>and known in the 40s and eatly 50s, he did not maintain that due to
>the lifestyle he led, he no longer sounded very good.
>
>For Elvis to have stolen most of his stage swagger from Wynonie, he
>must have seen him in person, correct? I would venture to guess that
>if he saw him in person, that he heard of him, no?
>
"Rock Mr. Blues - The Life And Music of Wynonie Harris" Tony Collins
>After the mid fifties he remained largely unknown to the general
>public,
>
>Translation, he was a big influence on Elvis, and while he was popular
>and known in the 40s and eatly 50s, he did not maintain that due to
>the lifestyle he led, he no longer sounded very good.
>
>For Elvis to have stolen most of his stage swagger from Wynonie, he
>must have seen him in person, correct? I would venture to guess that
>if he saw him in person, that he heard of him, no?
>
P. 112
"According to Jimmy Evans Jr (the son of Wynonie's long time manager)
one white spectator who saw Wynonie's act in Memphis was a young truck
driver and budding singer by the name of Elvis Presley"Every time
Jimmy would bring the show into that area Elvis would come to see the
show and he was such a fan that Jimmy used to let him,get him in to
the evening show. 'Cause see,they had whites in the afternoon and the
blacks would be like the midnight show. Now they had segregation in
those days. You couldn't mingle. And Elvis was the one,he always let
him in. And he'd sneak in and Jimmy would let him in the back and he'd
step in the balcony and he'd be cwatching that. 'Cause he copied
Wynonie's every move. 'He used to be watching him' he says,'and he
copied everything Wynonie did.' Henry Glover supports that claim.
"Presley copied many of the vocal gymnastics of Wynonie Harris as well
as the physical gyrations" he has said. "when you saw Elvis you were
seeing a mild version of Wynonie." Unfortunately there is no surviving
footage of Wynonie's stage act for comparison,but there is every
likelihood that Elvis did watch Wynonie for he regularly went to see
blues musicians at work. Memphis bluesmen B.B King and Billy "The Kid"
Emerson remember Elvis hanging around the black clubs on Beale Street
at this time.The evidence of recordings also shows that Elvis listened
to Wynonie. His second single for Sun Records recorded in 1954 was a
version of "Good Rockin' Tonight""
ROGER FORD
-----------------------
"Spam Free Zone" - to combat unwanted automatic spamming I have added
an extra "b" in my e-mail address (mari...@bblueyonder.co.uk).
Please delete same before responding.Thank you!
The Bloomfield Buddy
Aug 15, 2012, 3:23:11 PM8/15/12
to
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